# Companions for bucks



## kidsngarden (Oct 28, 2007)

I read in a different thread that Vicki thought whethers were not a good companion for a buck. I see wisdom in her reasons - they are always getting bred (I didn't know that - ew!) and it takes as much to feed them as it would a buck. My scenario is this - I have one alpine buck and three does to be bred this fall (provided I keep my nubian doe - we'll see how she produces second freshening).

I have whether that my stone cold heart as gotten attached too - just 4 days old. I was planning on keeping him to be a companion with my buck.

I thought a buck needed a companion. And that if you put two bucks together they would fight? I'm wondering what your experiences are with this?

Bethany


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## Ravens Haven (Oct 26, 2007)

All my bucks are penned together always, but they also have a 15 acre pasture to roam too. They fight some during rut but other than that they leave each other alone they even sleep together.

Autumn


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## Guest (May 5, 2008)

I've gotten attached to my wether too. I know of a breeder who has about three bucks and one wether and they are all together and do just fine. I will keep my wether with the buck. They are growing up together now so I see no reason to separate. I also thought that bucks needed companionship. I too have three does to be bred this fall.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

You will need a second buck for breeding, so when you raise out your own or purchase your second one, this companion wether will then go in the freezer?

See.....he becomes another mouth to feed that any job you mention you will use him for...hauling wood, packing etc...can be done by a doe who gives you saleable kids, eating kids, and milk. And the same loving companionship, in fact to me does have little dollar signs in their eyes you can't see when you look into your wethers eyes  

Goats are already a money pit on most homestead/farmettes, they are subsidized by a hard working man going off to work outside the farm...I just hate to see this sterotype played out further with livestock wethers not going for the meat they are destend to be, and are supposed to be. 

And the more goats you have that are not earning their keep the more apt you are to sell out from the work load or expenses...the unworking goats should be gone. Vicki


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## kidsngarden (Oct 28, 2007)

I totally agree with you Vicki. So with only three does to be bred, can I just keep the buck alone or will he freak out and constantly try to get out?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I don't mean that you can't keep a wether as a companion, but breeding livestock you should be thinking next year already, who are you going to breed this bucks daughters to? So when you buy or breed that buckling you will keep next year know that this wether will then go in the freezer and be replaced by the new buck. 

I like to have two same aged bucks, when I decide to raise a buck out...like when I purchased Nic from Sara, I also raised out a Birdy son to use on my FF also, then I sold the Birdy son as a yearling and as Nic had enough size to play with GE, they were moved together. Next year I plan to keep a son out of Shoofly and likely Bab's, so the bucklings will be raised out in pairs until they are used and then live together until old enough to go out into the buck pen...to live with an older buck my bucks have to be young yearlings. Vicki


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## kidsngarden (Oct 28, 2007)

I was thinking I should've had two same aged bucklings too...that they would get along together.

Ok, so I will keep the whether until I get another buck. and then no more whether "pets" only whether meat!


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## mill-valley (Feb 22, 2008)

I kept two bucks together for the first time last year, a 5 yr old and a yearling. They did fight quite a bit, and the older buck did pick on the younger one. But the pen was large enough and they were getting fed enough that neither one seemed to suffer.


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

I don't keep bucks together. period. I have individual pens for each buck. I just don't have time to doctor bucks. The pens are ajacent and they have their "buddies" next to them. They can "play fight" with panels between them. The does also go by their pens on the way to browse and "talk" to them through the fences. I just moved a 2 month old buck to his own pen (GASP) all by himself. He's ajacent to the doelings, but not with them. He was getting a little large to be playing with the doelings.
I've got a 5yr. old Togg buck that's been here since he was 6mo. old...he's NEVER had a companion and so far...I don't think he needs therapy.? 

Besides, most bucks don't stay here long. They're collected and sold. If they're good enough to stay a buck, they're good enough to collect. Cheaper to collect and store semen than to house and feed them. I certainly don't keep wethers. They would take up the space of a producing doe.
Kaye


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## DostThouHaveMilk (Oct 25, 2007)

We have a "worthless wether" that lives with our bucks and yes that is how I refer to him. :lol
John Henry came with a herd of does from a friend. She was quite attached to him and I told her I wouldn't sell him for meat. Now, that hasn't stopped me from trying to find him another home..lol But a 6 year old Nubian wether who won't even let me handle him isn't a real catch. He is attached at the hip to my Senior Nubian herdsire and that is just fine. He doesn't cost much and when I separate bucks during breeding season he stays with him.
I currently have 9 intentional bucks on the farm (4 Nubians and 5 Boer & BoerXs). One Nubian is being held for a buyer and I am holding onto him because I am raising him up with the Boer buckling I am keeping. He'll go this Fall when my Nubian buckling is big enough to run with the Boer buckling. I prefer to raise in pairs as well. Usually a Nubian buckling and a Boer buckling. 
My bucks don't really fight much during rut. Mostly they all know to stay out of William's (5 year old Boer/Saanen) way and I keep the younger boys in their own pen and the older boys in their own pen.

We kept our wethers the first two years....Only once since have we kept a wether beyond the next Fall. All buck kids born on this farm are destined for meat except the select few left in tact. They are wethered and sold that Fall/Winter.


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## Guest (May 5, 2008)

This particular wether does have a purpose here at this ever growing farm. He is my husband's only goat. His boy. The rest are mine. Or so he says.  Since he is the one paying the bills for the goats I don't mind a bit. I am attached to this little guy too. 

The wethers that come from now on will be sold for meat. That's the way it goes.


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## J-Basqo (Oct 26, 2007)

I totally agree with a wether not being economical in a "farm". It is one thing if you have the $$ for "pets" but my "farm" animals earn their keep because that is why I have them in the first place.. I started out with wethers thinking I would pack..like I will ever have time! And if I ever decide to take a goat packing, I will just bring my favorite doe in milk, she is then packing food too!
I started with 2 wethers, one being my husbands. He was very attached to him and thought he was the best goat in the world and "he doesnt eat that much" but I was feeding 3 goats the same amount of food and only getting milk from one. So I survived the "fit" (as if he would have even noticed it was gone if I didnt tell him), got rid of the wethers and bought my boy a cute little doe to call his!! So at least now if I have to be _*stuck*_ with a goat "forever" because its "his" at least I can milk her and and use her offspring. Not so much with a wether. I was even willing to let hubby pick out a different breed if he wanted as long it was a DOE.
As always tell my husband: "Dogs are pets, my livestock serves a purpose".
Patina


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## Corky (Oct 26, 2007)

I also had a wether in with my bucks.
The first one almost bled to death when the buck beat it up while I was at work. This was after they were together a year.
The wether was sold for a brush goat to a guy that later went into dairy goats.
The second buckling also had a wether companion and the same thing happened after a year. That wether became hamburger. YUM!

That buck now has a tire swing for a companion and it beats him up!

Him and that swing get into some real battles and if he has a scurr it comes off and I sometimes have to get the Furall out.
Sure does keep the scurrs off. :lol


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

:biggrin this just makes me go back, when I first got goats 2 unregistered ND supposedly's, Does were for milk and bucks would be meat. OK 2 does ea had 1 baby buck, NOW they are so darn cute you can't eat them so wethers /pets they became. 4 yrs of feeding the worthless grandkid toys, which of course after the first 6 mo the cute worn off and grandkids wanted more new babies. I finally said enough and to the butcher they went. I don't even band bucks going to butcher anymore. And this year decided NOPE am not feeding out any for meat yesterday took 8 doelings/bucks at 5/6 wks old dam raised milk only 
should be very tender meat and will roast whole. NO feed costs at all.


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## mill-valley (Feb 22, 2008)

> That buck now has a tire swing for a companion and it beats him up!
> 
> Him and that swing get into some real battles and if he has a scurr it comes off and I sometimes have to get the Furall out.
> Sure does keep the scurrs off.


Lol, I bet that's a sight to see!! Good idea though...might have to try that one. :rofl:


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## Guest (May 6, 2008)

We will keep Demi John for Lindsey's sake. She is so happy with her wether. This summer he gets to go camping! We are taking the cart and everything when we go camping so we can get some training in :biggrin.
However I agree that all bucks and wethers do is eat money away from the working herd. At least the bucks contribute to oh about 2% purpose. Tammy


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## stacy adams (Oct 29, 2007)

Sondra, do you take yours that young somewhere? or do you do it yourself? or have someone at home do it? If I could have someone do it here, let's say if DH were a hunter :rofl sorry, then I'd have more baby goat in the freezer. That said, I guess I'm happy we got 'em all sold instead! :biggrin


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## kidsngarden (Oct 28, 2007)

Not Sondra, but last year I fed mine out a bit 2 were four months, and one was sixth months. (now seeing how much milk they eat as we are bottle raising this year - UGH! I wish they would have gone earlier) We butchered them ourselves using feral nature's tutorial. It really is not very hard at all. Little ones would be really easy - more like a rabbit. Not worth getting a butcher out for them I think.

The whether we have now we will get rid of first chance we get to get another buck, but I can't eat him. I'm still a baby about eating them if I bottle raised them. now if their dam raised I have no issues eating them at all!


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Stacy DH won't let me butcher here or I would do it myself at this age but these I let the dams feed and then took them over to Hamiltons in Weatherford they butcher /wrap /freeze for $10 a piece. on these little guys a large goat they will butcher /grind /make sausage or cut up to your order /wrap and freeze for $25


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## kidsngarden (Oct 28, 2007)

$10??? holy cow you lucky duck! Here you can't take anything to the butcher, they need to come to you and the kill fee alone is $45 EACH. 40 - 50 cents a pound cut and wrap is additional to that!


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## Kalne (Oct 25, 2007)

Wow....if I could get some butchered for those prices we'd have done it already. We're trying to get the gumption up to do it ourselves this year.


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

I'm probably in the wrong farming business, as we are vegetarian...I've never thought of any animal as "just a piece of meat," as they all feel pain, are scared, etc. just like us. I'm working on this one...trying to justify taking a life when I don't need it to live. I realize that while producing milk there are often extra males produced that are not needed. Ideally, I'd love to find perfect pet homes for them, where they have a large field, shelter, human and animal friends, etc. but I know that pet goats often do not recieve the care that I would hope they would, so feel that it is probably better to use them for meat if a really good home cannot be found. We have a wether that is the same age as our buck. They are great friends and playmates. They live in a 7 acre field with horses and have an ideallic life. I really don't feed the boys much, and never give the wether grain, so his cost is negligable. In the fall, during rut, I had to seperate these normally friendly boys as the buck was beating the crud out of the weather. We had just moved and had to pen the boys in an area much smaller than they were used to, and it was not good. We got our wether out of there before he got hurt, but then our buck hollered quite a bit as he was by himself. Maybe another buck would have been better? I think it was just the small area that really made the difference. This year we have the pasture fenced so I am hoping it won't be such a problem. I don't think I would have wanted to deal with two bucks. I plan to use AI on the bucks daughters this year. We really like our buck and will probably not sell him anytime soon. I don't mind being attached to my animals...they are part of the family, but if I really counted on them for my living I suppose I might think differently about them. I know, I'm not much help, and we probably won't keep another weather, but right now I like our arrangement with the buck and wether kept together. 
For those of you who send your extra bucks off to the butcher, do they do it humanely? Is there any way to monitor this? For me, it's not so much the death itself, but the care and compassion they recieve up until that time, and then making sure it's done with respect for the animal. I could never do it myself, so that is not even an option, not ever....but I'd rather eat a humanely raised animal than one who has been factory farmed...so I may find myself eating goat jerky after all! Maybe I should stick to raising tomatoes?


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Anita, I can sympathize. I am a softy when it comes to this stuff. I am trying to do better. We did raise chickens one year for butcher, mom had to kill them though. Once the deed is done, I am ok and I can process from there, but the actual killing, man that's rough. We just sent four off to get them done and I just felt so bad loading them on the trailer. We would do the butchering ourselves, we know how.. the only reason we sent them off is because no one wanted to have to actually kill them. It makes it harder when they are so tame I do wonder how much of their "humanness" I see in them that isn't truly there. They are animals, not people. You just can't help but feel bad though. I wish I was more like my grandpa in that respect. It doesn't seem to bother him any. I guess growing up in rougher times would help. 

I'm not sure how they kill them, I wanted to ask, but them kinda didn't. I expect it's with a shot to the head. With cattle I think they use some kind of bolt that hits them in the head?

I'm here to tell you, goats and cows are different.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

How about paying someone to come and butcher at your farm. Then since you don't eat meat give the meat to folks with lots of kids etc.. This way you can monitor the way in which the goats are killed, although you then don't have to watch the buthering. All my old does but 2 and even old bucks when put down feed the homeless in my area. And for me making sausage is fun. I don't watch the kill because my BIL doesn't shoot them as he says it ruins the meat...the head is butchered for head cheese or tamales. They use everything but the stomach of the animal even using intestines as casings...so the way in which he butchers although I don't like to watch, does in the end produce so much more food than the way I prefer...so I simply don't watch.

I am well passed the stage that butchering kids bothers me. They are livestock. I won't make wethers period, and don't sell bucks as pets. 

I can't imagine with your vegetarian choice, how much harder this will be for you to deal with. Vicki


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## kidsngarden (Oct 28, 2007)

I butcher my own goats, but have had the butcher come here to butcher pigs. We have them coralled in hog panels the night before right where the butcher can pull his rig up to (he has a truck with a hoist and a big refigerator to hand the meat in). They are eating thier feed and he kills them with one swift shot in the head. It is very humane. Then they are slit to bleed out. 

There is a highland beef farmer here who says that taking the animal to the butcher is very stressful (and I agree) and they produce endorphins or something that makes the meat less tender. They have thier cattle done the same way we did our pigs.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

I have only sold 3 as pets and those 3 were within 4 days mauled by their own dogs NOPE I don't sell any for pets. And yes my meat packer is very humane in their butchering process and was better care than when my own boys use to do the deed. It is rather funny because I can kill and butcher chickens and rabbits myself with no problem what so ever but nope I can't do the goats.


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## Guest (May 9, 2008)

With everything that has been said in this post I am reevaluating my need for this wether. My husband surprised me when I asked him yesterday, by saying that it really does not matter to him whether or not he goes. Hmmm? I think he might be going. I have two really good leads. One for freezer and one for pet. (The pet home is great. I know them personally.)


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