# Observations Comments & Questions about Blue Eyed Goats



## Hollybrook (Jul 17, 2009)

We decided to breed some mini's so we bought a Blue Eyed ND buck now our Blue eyed Nigerian Doe kidded here are some personal observations feel free to comment or ad as we are new to this breed of goat.

Unlike humans brown eyes arent dominate over blue its 50-50! Even 2 Brown eyed goats can have 25% chance if grand parent had Blue eyes

So far all blue eyed goats are born w/brown eyes it takes 2-3 days for color to change. 


Blue eyed buck bred to brown doe = 1 blue 1 brown
Blue eyed buck bred to Blue doe = 3 blue eyed kids

Someone told me thier Nigerian had blue eyes but changed to brown has anyone heard of this?


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## natty threads (Dec 15, 2010)

"Unlike humans brown eyes aren't dominate over blue its 50-50! Even 2 Brown eyed goats can have 25% chance if grand parent had Blue eyes"

I think that's the same in people.
Recessive traits are expressed at a 25% rate if both parents are heterozygous for the recessive trait.

Nice stats.

Blue eyed pygmies are born brown-eyed?

That's kind of cool.


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## sherrie (Jul 22, 2008)

With my experience with ND (long time ago) if they had blue eyes as babies they always had blue eyes. I raised pygmies and nigerians. My pygmies never had blue eyes.


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## Hollybrook (Jul 17, 2009)

Negative Jen with humans Brown is Dominate over Blue you get 1 set of gene's from each parent for instance I have Blue eyes My wife is Asian she has brown eyes her mother has brown eyes and grandmother and so on no matter how many kids we had they would all have Brown eyes however if our Son Married a Blue eyed woman thier child would have a chance of blue eyes 25% maybe depend upon her parents and grand parents and which genes he put forth mine or my wife's?


Sherri were any of your ND born with brown eyes but changed to blue in a day or 2?


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## Epona142 (Sep 2, 2009)

Here is a post I wrote on FB once when I was a bit annoyed...LOL. It might not be perfect, as I based it off what I knew of ball python genetics, but it seems to be fairly solid.

Okay, this is something that's been bothering me for a while. A lot of people know some goats are born polled (hornless) and some are born with blue eyes. But SO many people don't quite understand how this works!

I'm going to use "X" to denote both polled and blue eyes, because they are a co-dominant trait, and interchangeable for the sake of this bit of a genetics lesson.

Let's say you have a doe who exhibits X and a buck who doesn't. You breed them.

Xx stands for the doe. This means she exhibits the trait (ie blue eyes). xx stands for the buck. He does not exhibit the trait.

If you breed Xx with xx, because it is a CO-DOMINANT trait, and not recessive, you stand to get:

50% Xx
50% xx

In clearer terms, each kid has half a chance of exhibiting the blue eyes. Each kid also has half a chance of having plain eyes.

Now, you breed a Xx with a Xx. Two blue eyed goats.

This means you get 100% blue eyes right?

Wrong!

Because this is a co-dominant trait, both goats most LIKELY carry the brown eyed/horned gene as well. This means you get:

50% Xx
25% XX
25% xx

But wait, what does this mean? There's three results.

Xx is obviously a blue eyed kid. xx is a brown eyed kid. So what is XX?

XX is a homozygous blue eyed kid. The homozygous means that it carries two copies of the blue eyed gene. This means if you breed a homozygous goat, all of its offspring will have blue eyes.

Now, I am not 100% certain homozygous blue eyed/polled goats exist. They should. Doesn't mean they do.

Confused yet? It's okay, it just takes some practice.

But let me get some things straight.

Your goat cannot CARRY the polled or blue eyed gene without exhibiting it. There is NO heterozygous for these traits, because they are co-dominant.

If you breed a blue eyed/polled goat to a blue eyed goat/polled goat, you can STILL get brown eyed/horned kids. You're more likely to get what you're seeking, but each kid still has that chance of the draw.

Hope this helps, and please forgive me. I've seen one too many comments about "carrying" such and such gene or "guaranteed to have such and such gene kids."



Oh - as a side note. I've never had a kid be born with brown eyes that turned blue. I work a lot with blue eyes, as they are popular in the pet trade. You KNOW when a kid is born with blue eyes, they are very bright. I HAVE had kids that were born with blue-ish eyes that faded to the normal golden brown.


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## Hollybrook (Jul 17, 2009)

Thats good info Kristina. We had 5 goats born with brown/yellow eyes but 4 changed to blue!!

Thanks
Dave


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## mrs.h (Feb 1, 2010)

Not an expert of goats or humans, but two brown eyed parents can definitely have blue eyed babies. Here are some genetics charts/websites.
http://www.docshop.com/2008/01/04/what-color-will-my-babys-eyes-be
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_color

This last one is great. You pick the eye colors of you, your mate and both you parents, and your siblings.
http://museum.thetech.org/ugenetics/eyeCalc/eyecalculator.html


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## poppypatchfarm (Oct 26, 2009)

Blue eyes are dominant in goats but kids are either born with blue eyes or they are not. The blue eyes should look lighter from birth. I can always tell as soon as they pop out. Sometimes even with human babies newborns can have a blue tint to their eyes but not neccisarrily end up having blue eyes.
Nigerians can either have eyes that are solid blue often reffered to as "china blue" or they can have marbled blue eyes which have some gold coloring mixed with blue. We have some of both types in our herd but I like goats of all colors. They can also have either golden brown eyes or dark brown eyes.
In order to get blue-eyed kids at least one parent should also be blue-eyed.

Here is a site a lot of people refer to on eye coloring in Nigerians- 
http://members.cox.net/foxcroft/genetics.htm#blueeyes

Poppy Patch Farm 
Nigerian Dwarf & Guernsey Dairy Goats


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## lorit (May 10, 2010)

So I did the last calculator but it wasn't too accurate for us.  It said we (hubby and I) should have had 66% chance of brown yet we ended up with three blue and one green and no brown. I have always wondered/figured that even though there is a scientific basis to dominant and recessive, there is also a "family" strength that can be inherited that tends to dominate even though it is technically a recessive trait. My dad's family has amazing BLUE eyes - striking and bold. I think ALL of his siblings (9) have them as did his father. Most of my cousins do, and in my immediate family of 4 siblings three have the blue and one is green (like mom). Of my 4 children it is the same ratio even though hubby has brown and both of his parent's had brown and his brother has brown. So I guess I think - maybe too proudly, huh - that OUR particular blue eyes are dominant even when they scientifically shouldn't be. 

And can't we see the same thing in goats - where a sire or dam seems to "stamp" themselves unto their offspring no matter who we breed them to? Which to me means that while science is fun and a guide - it is not an absolute and having babies of any sort is always an adventure.  The anticipation is such a big part of the fun.


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## rebeccasminis (Aug 24, 2010)

I have one blue eyed ND buck who is black his first kids are due any day now but I have no blue eyed does. I can absolutely guarantee you that a child with two brown eyed parents can have a blue eyed child because I have blue eyes and my parents are brown eyed. (lol and I horrified by asking my mother if they were both REALLY my parents) but I have also heard a woman up here who breeds them say the blue eyed kids sell really well but the does do not milk as well.... Not sure about that one, as I dont have any blue eyed does. We shall see! Thanks for the info on genetics, I am attempting to brush up my education in this area.
Rebecca


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## poppypatchfarm (Oct 26, 2009)

No correlation between eye color and milk production. 
We have a china blue-eyed doe who was milking just under 3 quarts per day this year as a second-freshener. She also finished her ADGA championship in 3 rings in a row with the 3rd leg being at the district 7 Nigerian speciality. Plan to put her on official milk test this Spring.
On the other hand it is true a lot of blue-eyed goats are bred for just having blue eyes which could explain a possible low production in many as blue eyes are selected for over other traits such as milk production.

Poppy Patch Farm
Nigerian Dwarf & Guernsey Dairy Goats


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## Epona142 (Sep 2, 2009)

Blue eyes in humans and blue eyes in goats are completely different.

In my understanding of goat genetics, the blue eyes MUST be expressed in a goat for it to be passed on, because it is dominant or co-dominant. It is NOT recessive.

One of the parents must have blue eyes for the kids to have blue eyes.

Literally right out of mom and you can see the BRIGHT blue eyes. The dam is brown eyed, sire is blue eyed.



















And here are brothers. Same situation, dam is brown eyed, sire is blue eyed.



















Not very good pics, but one brother got blue eyes and one did not. The brown eyed brother, when born, had blue-ish eyes, but they darkened to a normal brown eyed color. The blue eyed brother had BRIGHT blue eyes from the beginning.

Blue Eyed + Brown Eyed = 50% chance for each kid to be Blue Eyed
Blue Eyed + Blue Eyed = 75% chance for each kid to be Blue Eyed
Brown Eyed + Brown Eyed = 100% chance for each kid to be Brown Eyed


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

Lori,
it's just probability. Think of it this way. If I flip a coin, there is a 50% probability I will get heads. If I flip a coin 100 times, chances are, about half of those will be heads and half tails. However, each time I flip that coin, the probability is still 50%. So if I flip a coin 3 times and get a heads the first two times, it is not any more likely that I will get tails the 3rd time than if I'd gotten tails the first two times instead. The previous flips have no effect on the subsequent ones.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Kristina- beautiful babies but consider feed sacks to cut down on yukky laundry! Works wonders. We just burn them or bury them in a fruit tree hole. 
Lee


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## DostThouHaveMilk (Oct 25, 2007)

Epona142 said:


> Your goat cannot CARRY the polled or blue eyed gene without exhibiting it. There is NO heterozygous for these traits, because they are co-dominant.


 Just one thing bothers me and that is this statement about no Heterozygous for the traits. I know what you meant. You meant that a goat that is heterozygous for the traits will display them and there cannot be that trait hidden. Takes one to make one situation.
But most Polled goats are heterozygous Polled. Homozygous polled is very rare and usually unheard of. Carrying at least one Polled gene they display the Polled trait. 
Just one little nit picky thing.


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## Epona142 (Sep 2, 2009)

Thanks Dost. It is worded a bit oddly. When I say "het" in my little world (I used to breed ball pythons and other snakes) it means an animal that carries a gene but does not exhibit it. Which is where the confusion comes in, as co-dominant traits are essentially, visual hets. 

I may go back and tweak that to make it more clearer, thanks!

Also, thanks for the tip on the feed sacks, lol. I did indeed manage to use most of our towels that day haha. I'm sure my husband appreciates that to the fullest extent..

:rofl


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## natty threads (Dec 15, 2010)

Hollybrook said:


> Negative Jen with humans Brown is Dominate over Blue you get 1 set of gene's from each parent for instance I have Blue eyes My wife is Asian she has brown eyes her mother has brown eyes and grandmother and so on no matter how many kids we had they would all have Brown eyes however if our Son Married a Blue eyed woman thier child would have a chance of blue eyes 25% maybe depend upon her parents and grand parents and which genes he put forth mine or my wife's?
> 
> Sherri were any of your ND born with brown eyes but changed to blue in a day or 2?


Yes, a blue-eyed person with a homozygous brown-eyed person will have all heterozygous brown-eyed children, it is true.

If your heterozygous for blue eyes brown-eyed son married a blue-eyed woman there would be a 50% chance of having blue eyed children.

Run the Punnett.

http://www.thetech.org/genetics/ask.php?id=59


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## natty threads (Dec 15, 2010)

Epona142 said:


> Here is a post I wrote on FB once when I was a bit annoyed...LOL. It might not be perfect, as I based it off what I knew of ball python genetics, but it seems to be fairly solid.
> 
> Okay, this is something that's been bothering me for a while. A lot of people know some goats are born polled (hornless) and some are born with blue eyes. But SO many people don't quite understand how this works!
> 
> ...


I don't understand why you say it is co-dominant and not dominant?


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## Epona142 (Sep 2, 2009)

I was working off of genetics I knew and was most familiar, which ended up being co-dominant. On further research and observation, I do believe that polled/blue eyes are just dominant, no co-dominant. A co-dominant gene can be identified when in it's "super" form (homozygous visual - XX). With goats, there is no visual different in homozygous, so indeed, it is just a dominant trait, not co-dominant. 

My mistake that I need to go back and fix as well lol.


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## rebeccasminis (Aug 24, 2010)

Thank you Shannon! that makes me feel better about breeding the pretty blue eyed buck. Very impressive! The babies are GORGEOUS!! Very Very nice


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## Hollybrook (Jul 17, 2009)

Somethings i pick up on pretty quick the gentics however Im having a hard time, haven to read it several times so it sinks in but its great info thanks.


I have anouther question has anyone seen a goat with 1 blue and 1 brown eye? Is it even possible Ive seen horses and people like this why not goats?


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

When I had Nigies, both my sires were blue eyed, and most of the does had brown. None of the kids who were born with blue eyes ever started out with brown, they were born with blue and stayed that way. One buck sired 100% blue eyed kids and the other sired 80% blue eyed kids out of my does.


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## Epona142 (Sep 2, 2009)

Actually, YES, I have seen a picture of a goat with one blue, one brown. I can't remember for the LIFE of me where it was but it was on a Texas fainter website. I remember thinking "Wow! Look at that." It's the only one I've ever seen.

ETA:

Not the same goat I saw, but there is an example of a goat with both: http://www.prairiewoodranch.com/blueeyes.html

VERY neat would love to have something like that.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Just a little imput here nothing scientific 
I had a blue eyed MM buck and with all his breedings I only got blue eye baby once when bred to a blue eyed MM doe I have a feeling that the cross breeding between ND and LM had something to do with it all because the buck and other blue eyed does plus this doe (other years) only produced normal Brown eyes So in my opinion it is all a crap shoot :biggrin


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## OPC Farm (9 mo ago)

Epona142 said:


> Here is a post I wrote on FB once when I was a bit annoyed...LOL. It might not be perfect, as I based it off what I knew of ball python genetics, but it seems to be fairly solid.
> 
> Okay, this is something that's been bothering me for a while. A lot of people know some goats are born polled (hornless) and some are born with blue eyes. But SO many people don't quite understand how this works!
> 
> ...


We have a doeling that was born with blue eyes and we have ZERO blue eyed goats, she is solid white with no color anywhere. Her mom is alpine/nigerian cross and Her dad is a pure nigerian BOTH have hazel/brown eyes. The parents have had 1 set of doeling twins in 2020, a single buck in 2021 and this single doeling in 2022. NONE of the other full siblings had blue eyes even at birth. We're beyond confused at this little doeling. There was another kid (a buckling) that has lamacha mom but bred to same buck that had blue grey eyes at birth but they changed to greenish then brown pretty quickly. The doeling and buckling are only 4 days apart. There's no other buck that could have been bred as the rest are full lamancha.

I've heard and read there's a 25% chance if grandparents had blue eyes or that there could be blue flecks in one of parents eyes but I've not been able to identify and flecks :/


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