# Care after abortion



## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

I mentioned on another post that I have a doe that aborted about 3 1/5 month pregnant day before yesterday. She's not coming into milk, I checked her, she seemed fine yesterday, but this morning she looked a little down and cold (it was a chilly night, but she's in the barn). She's a large doe, about 4 yrs old, an all black Alpine (Saanen size and with a history of being overweight, but she's in good shape now). Just for safety's sake I gave her 12 cc of penicillin, 3cc Dexamethasone for fever and 6cc Vit B complex, all IM. She's up and eating hay right now, but I'm just wondering, does anyone have any other suggestions to help her over the hump? I'd appreciate it! I will keep her open until she's healthy and back cycling and then I will rebreed her.


----------



## nlhayesp (Apr 19, 2012)

It sounds good. Too much penicillin can cause scours. Do you know why she aborted? Some people give auromycin 4g the last 6 weeks of pregnancy to prevent infective abortion. If another one aborts, then it is time to do a necropsy on fetuses/placenta


----------



## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

I don't know why she aborted, but it happens. This is the second time this happened in my herd, the other one was last year, late December, and that doe was rebred, kidded, milked, and is actually pregnant again now. Sometimes there's no reason clear to us, but since she seemed to be feeling iffy I decided to give her some meds this morning. I know about the infectious abortions and the thought is always scary, but so far, so good: we're all still pregnant! I can't really treat the whole bunch with auramycin on a hunch: I have a dairy and can't have antibiotics in my does' milk at kidding. Crossing my fingers and hoping this is 'just one of those things'


----------



## Qadosh Adamah Lamanchas (Nov 2, 2012)

Sounds good. Just keep her in really good condition for re-breeding. I'd personally give her some bos-e and copper simply because that's my protocol before breeding at any time.


----------



## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

It is generally advised to use banamine for pain and fever. Dex tends to suppress the immune system so is used most often in situations with swelling where you are weighing the benefits and downside against one another.

We usually do a uterine flush when a doe has aborted. This seems to reduce problems with rebreeding later on...and is much easier to do when the doe is wide open, rather than the following year. Also an excellent preventative for uterine infection.

Just keep her eating/rumen functioning. Lactated ringers can be a real boost for an animal that has sustained stress like this. Also the b-complex daily until she turns the corner.


----------



## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

Thanks Camille. I considered flushing, but she seems to be cleaning out by herself well. I guess I could still do that just to make sure. I'm always weighing wether to use Dexamethasone or banamine. I usually use banamine, actually, and I'm not even sure why I picked the dex now :blush. I do choose dex when there's swelling/inflammation and if it's fever due to pneumonia-type issues. I feel it works better then. But you are right: none of those issues here, should have gone for the banamine. 

I kept her separate today and gave her electrolytes instead of straight water and hay she really likes (and I'm very short on...) and tonight she seemed to be smiling at me again. When I brought her back to her group, first thing she did was go for the waterbucket and drink a huge amount of water and then she glared at me like she was saying: 'next time give me the real stuff, woman!' PUNK..... but I'm glad she's doing better! I'm keeping up the penicillin and Vit B for another day or two.


----------



## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Hope she pulls through for you, Marion. Sounds like you're doing all you can. So will you rebreed her for a late spring kidding?


----------



## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

I'm pretty sure she'll be fine, Cindy, and yes, when she feels up to cycling again I'll breed her again. I guess that's the advantage of breeding for milk and not just show or selling kids. It's a loss of course, since she will not be lactating for that much longer, but on the other hand I really don't mind having a late kidding, it'll result in milk longer into the winter. And I actually have a better (Saanen) buck available now :lol

Oh, and Bernice says HI! :biggrin She's about to be dried up... Can't wait for her kids! Little Alpines, never had those before.....


----------



## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Trysta said:


> Oh, and Bernice says HI! :biggrin She's about to be dried up... Can't wait for her kids! Little Alpines, never had those before.....


You better post pics! Has she acclimated to your herd yet?


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

So will you continue the penicillin and dex? It's why we have such resistance with our antibiotics, not using a full course, and not using them for anything that could possibly have been wrong with the doe. The reason banamine works so much better is that it takes the edge off, and stops the inflammation without all the side effect steroids can have. Also you want to be giving OTC antibiotics subq, it's simply way to much drug (3cc per 50 pounds every 12 hours for 7 to 10 days) to give IM to a goat.

I would have chosen a tetracycline, to not just treat the uterine infection she like doesn't have  but since she did abort, it is the drug you will use if it becomes a problem in the herd, so I would have given her the shots now. Infusing the uterus with antibiotics/tetracycline should be part of a normal protocol in your herd for abortions like this. Early abortions are normal, unless you have a witch living in the herd who head butts other does, a 3 month abortion is not normal at all.

Try not to put human emotions onto this type of thing, depressed etc. Take temps, check for anemia, fecal, make sure discharge is normal...and until one of those things changes don't reach for drugs, which just as she needs all the flora in her rumen and guts to heighten her immunity, you kill them with penicillin and a steroid.


----------



## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

Trysta said:


> Thanks Camille. I considered flushing, but she seems to be cleaning out by herself well. I guess I could still do that just to make sure. I'm always weighing wether to use Dexamethasone or banamine. I usually use banamine, actually, and I'm not even sure why I picked the dex now :blush. I do choose dex when there's swelling/inflammation and if it's fever due to pneumonia-type issues. I feel it works better then. But you are right: none of those issues here, should have gone for the banamine.
> 
> I kept her separate today and gave her electrolytes instead of straight water and hay she really likes (and I'm very short on...) and tonight she seemed to be smiling at me again. When I brought her back to her group, first thing she did was go for the waterbucket and drink a huge amount of water and then she glared at me like she was saying: 'next time give me the real stuff, woman!' PUNK..... but I'm glad she's doing better! I'm keeping up the penicillin and Vit B for another day or two.


No worries - just some protocols are better than others - and lots of folks reading and taking notes, y'know? I would discontinue the Dex and finish your antibiotics. And yep, standard protocol on the abortion is the uterine flush. Simple and pretty inexpensive - ounce of prevention and all that. 
Glad she is feeling good.


----------



## nlhayesp (Apr 19, 2012)

How do you "do" a uterine flush? Be specific, like what size syringe or tubes, how far to go in, etc. Thanks!


----------



## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

Vicki, I did not mean 'depressed' in the human way, bad choice of words I guess, but depressed as in: obviously not feeling good. Sorry about that. I think humans whine way too much about what ails them, and I definitely do not think that way about my goats. :rofl Personally, I am of the 'Walk-it-Off!' variety (ask my kids and soccer players, if they get hurt in my vicinity they all immediately yell: I know, I know, walk it off!!), so I am not too quick in using meds.
Bottle of penicillin lasts me a looong time (luckily I am not too impressed with expiration dates :biggrin). I will keep on using penicillin and finish that (I agree with you on the resistance, If I use it, I finish it), but I won't use dexamethasone anymore. Nor will I use Banamine if she's obviously doing good: I only use that if an animal has fever, swelling, or is off feed. She did have a fever (slight) yesterday morning, but not anymore. She looks like she feels like a goat again!

And Camille and Vicki: that's why I posted this. Not because I thought I couldn't come up with a treatment for this doe myself, but because I wanted to hear other protocols and options. That's what I feel this forum is so great for. We all have good ideas and bad ideas, but how do we find out other points of view if we don't put it out here. So thanks all! 

Oh 'nlhayesp', on the uterine flush: I use a 60cc syringe with a (about 5 inch?) piece of tubing on it (I use the clear plastic tubing I use in my lambar). Works very well. Cervix still has to be open and the tube will slide right in. I usually repeat for a few days. This is standard protocol for me if I have a doe that had a heavy kidding (needed help) and/or if she did not fully pass the afterbirth, both huge risk factors for a uterine infection. I did not initially flush after this abortion, because I have never had a doe or cow get a uterine infection after an abortion (well this was only the second time I had it with a goat), so it didn't immediately occur to me.


----------



## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

nlhayesp said:


> How do you "do" a uterine flush? Be specific, like what size syringe or tubes, how far to go in, etc. Thanks!


I am going to be even more specific than Trysta.

You need a 60 cc syringe and either tubing or a horse AI sheath (what we use). We like the sheath because it is straight, but slightly flexible. Lay the sheath along side the goat (outside) so that you are about 1-2 inches past the opening of the uterus. Now mark the sheath with a Black marker about 1 inch past the rear end of the goat. This is going to give you a measure of how far to go in with the sheath. (I hope this is clear, if it is not, tell me and I will try to explain again).

Now the sheath is pretty long, so we usually cut the sheath off about 6 inches above the black marker line, because I don't want all of my antibiotic mixture left in the tube. Keep the nice rounded end for inserting and cut off from the blunt end (and it will be rough now).

For the antibiotic, we pull 8 ccs of tetracycline (LA 200/Biomyicin/etc )into the 60cc syringe. Then pull 25 ccs of sterile water (purchased from the vet) to make a dilution.

Lube the end of the AI sheath (or tubing) and slowly insert the sheath into the does' vagina. We always insert one hand (in our case our left hand) into the does' vagina so that we can guide the sheath carefully in. We tend to slide the sheath between our forefinger and our middle finger as we slowly insert the sheath. After kidding, the doe is usually wide open (after all, you can still put your hand inside her!) but if you are doing this at another time, it takes some finesse to make sure that you have made it to and into the uterus. Checking the length of the tube with your mark will help with this. Keep going until you get close to your mark. Now insert the 60cc syringe (with the prepared uterine flush dilution) into the end of the sheath and push down on the plunger until it has all gone in. If you get a bunch spit back at you, you did not get into the uterus , only to the vaginal opening, so you will need to start over and reposition the sheath.

Some folks put a little more (like 5 ccs) of sterile water into the syringe and push that through when they are done distributing the antibiotic so that none of the solution is left in the sheath.

We only do the flush once. If we had a particularly nasty situation (such as a retained kid) then we may do it twice (and if you think there are parts left behind, this requires a little different flush) , otherwise once is usually enough.

HTH


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Same here only mine holds nearly a quart, we call it the super soaker. It's for mares. Just make sure you are actually flushing the uterus, not just the vagina  Vicki


----------



## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

Addition:

There are two definitions of uterine flush. One is when you are putting about 1000ml of fluid in that has diluted tetracycline in it (like after a kid has been cut up to remove it from the doe or after a slurried kid and the pieces have come apart as you are removing the kid). This type of flush is usually followed by a shot of oxytocin to help the uterus contract and expel the leftover gunk.

Then you would follow with a simple uterine flush as outlined above and leave the antibiotic dilution in the doe. And of course the simple uterine flush for after abortions, difficult kiddings with extensive help etc. 

You may need to be clear when talking to your vet or another goat person who doesn't frequent this forum.


----------



## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Very informative thread. Thanks!

Could you use the tubing you would use to tube-feed a kid? Or is that too flexible? Or too small?

Or what about a pig AI syringe?


----------



## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

Just want to add one thing on the Oxytocin shot: only use for cleaning out uterus as Camille describes it, when cervix is definitely still open right after complication with kidding, Never use oxitocin when cervix has closed, since the resulting contractions can be disastrous then. Just thought I'd make that very clear.

Marion


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Cindy it is way to flexible to use. Vicki


----------

