# Weird bumps on udder



## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

Early in 2012, my friend in California told me that her doe had weird bumps on her udder. Sounded like staph, so suggested that she vaccinate with lysigin and wash the sores with a drying soap (like chlorhexadine (sp) ). She did that and I never heard back about it. Well, went to visit family in CA and dropped by to visit her. She took me out to see her doe and the bumps are really gross looking - like warts almost. Hoping you guys might recognize this (but hopefully no one has ever had it, LOL) and can suggest a course of action. Thank you!


Thanks,

Camille


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## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

Here is a picture:


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## Polopony (Dec 24, 2011)

It looks like scratches that horses get. It is caused by a fungus, but can get a bacterial component as it advances. Poor baby.


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## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

It was all over her udder - do you have any idea how to treat it?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Guess number one: Granulomas have formed. It's called Pemphigus vulgaris. She is replacing the skin faster than she is sloughing it off, due to damage from treatment usually of skin disease. The warning I always give not to use a whole bunch of things on staph. Debreeding of the area, steroids will help. Think shingles in humans. Does she have any of this going down her legs and around her dew claws? 

Guess number two: She has skin cancer. The only saanen I saw with skin cancer was having her udder removed to retain her genetics. But these growths were black, not tan. Vicki


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## Qadosh Adamah Lamanchas (Nov 2, 2012)

Someone mentioned that it was likely fungal. I have had lots of luck using a salve of tea tree oil and oregano oil on skin ailments for goats. I cannot identify the issue on your goat's udder, but I would apply the salve.


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## todog (Dec 10, 2011)

i take it she has never had a biopsy done by a lab or vet? i would have done this in the very begining. just sayin!


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## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

She does not have any going down her legs or anywhere else. She seemed to be in good spirits and is still milking 8 lbs/day. Healthy looking except for this nasty looking warty stuff. No biopsy that I am aware of.

I will suggest the oregano oil/tea tree as that should be good for fungal or bacterial. Thanks. 
What about that Ammens fungal foot powder? At least it would not add moisture?

BTW, at the beginning she also gave LA 200/Biomyicin (don't remember which oxyteracycline she has) and it didn't make a dent.

Vicki, are you suggesting Dex? Or which steroid?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Yes, it will kick start her immunity into not replacing her skin cells in this damaged area, and building this horny growth. Vicki


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## prairiegirl01 (Jun 2, 2008)

I had something similar that turned out to be staph. But, it didn't get better until I gave copper, boosted her immune system AND treated the staph. Vaccinating with Lysigin only made it worse. Good luck!

Chris


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Not sure how a vaccination could make anything worse. Vicki


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

This could be Papilloma Virus.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Zinc.
All she needs is zinc.
Cell division and cell formation and integrity particularly in skin depends on adequate zinc levels.

Some extra vit A could help as well.
Don't keep thinking about fixing the outside.
Start with where the skin is made....nutrition.

Hope this helps
Lee


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## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

Passing it all along - never saw anything so weird (okay, and pretty gross). Hopefully I will get updates and can post here how the case resolves.

Appreciate everyone's input. Camille


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## todog (Dec 10, 2011)

i agree with Janie, it looks like papilloma. in bovines it come on the teat but in caprines its the udder that is involved. a vet at this point would be the safest thing to do.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

How is the Papilloma virus treated?

Just a reminder: You can't give Dex to a pregnant doe.


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

Thanks for sharing this Camille and for your friend allowing you to share it. Please keep us posted!


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## todog (Dec 10, 2011)

papilloma virus is a precancer virus and should be treated by a vet or vet hospital. I wouldn't want to even venture a guess of how to treat this animal, If it is truley papilloma


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

If one of my goats had something like that, I'd take her to the vet and have skin tests run. Just like with parasites and mastitis, you have to know what you are treating so you use the correct meds.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Papilloma in humans is also nutrition related. 
Immune function breach due to lack of micronutrients or extreme stress and lack of zinc during skin cell formation.
You don't need a vet. You need zinc and a quality broad spectrum mineral in chelated form.
You can put zinc oxide cream on as well. It will be one of the 'miracles' you hear about! :rofl

It is viral. Viruses are ONLY prevented by immune function and proper nutrition. 
She already has the virus in her DNA ~try treating the symptoms for her comfort. 
That is all you can do. There is no...no no treatment for a contracted virus. Only secondary support.



> Papillomaviruses replicate exclusively in keratinocytes. Keratinocytes form the outermost layers of the skin, as well as some mucosal surfaces, such as the inside of the cheek or the walls of the vagina. These surface tissues, which are known as stratified squamous epithelia, are composed of stacked layers of flattened cells. The cell layers are formed through a process known as cellular differentiation, in which keratinocytes gradually become specialized, eventually forming a hard, crosslinked surface that prevents moisture loss and acts as a barrier against pathogens.


It is during these sequences of cell formation and skin building that the lack of zinc is evidenced. Zinc deficient rats are used to study this issue. Give the poor girl some zinc! Zinc oxide cream is used to treat human genital papilloma. Please....read up people. You don't need a doc for this kind of thing. 
Lee


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## todog (Dec 10, 2011)

Well Lee, they don't do research or "read up" since this has been going on for awhile. Not everyone is willing to "read up" so to save some pain for the doe I suggest a vet to get it under control if its not too late. Since the does owner isn't the one asking I feel a visit to the vet would be the best at this point. To each their own!


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Merck Vet Manual and Goat Medicine, great books to own. So you can read up. I would be doing both. Get a vet along side of her Camille along with a change in minerals. I would definately want a blood trace mineral test done for a week, not all that spendy. It will aide in knowing what all her doe will need. And it is most likely zinc, She could try some zinc cream like Lee suggested on a trial spot if it is something she is nervous about. Just my input.
Tam

OH as a second thought, make sure she is not using any cell regeneration herbs like comfrey until she figures out what is really going on.


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## Laverne (Apr 4, 2010)

I learned a good lesson on zinc. My nigerian was not the healthiest when I bought her and had crustiness on the tips of her ears that never cleared up completely even though her coat and condition was beautiful with my care. Then suddenly it's like her condition switched on, her ears, outside of each one, started to proliferate flakes, scabby scales by the hundreds. I was amazed how the skin could even survive the amazing numbers, layer upon layer, about 1/8 th of an inch, each one, and perfectly round. Zinc stopped this reproduction in it's tracks. But she had other symptoms of what I came to conclusion as a genetic zinc malabsorption disorder. Other symptoms are sore feet with swelling and laminitis with the genetic zinc malabsorption, which she developed on all fours, but the swelling went away on the fronts eventually. Other crustyness on her body. Some things I learned with this condition, zinc has to be given in high doses the rest of their lives, vitamin A works synergystically with zinc, other oppertunistic conditions can grow with this compromised skin, like fungus and bacteria, humans can have this condition also and have to take high doses to survive and then can lead a normal life. Also I gave her a little msm, a very small amount and it made her worse the next day, so I looked up antagonists to zinc and sulfer was one of them.

By the time I figured it out and her skin started to improve she just wasn't making enough progress otherwise, I believe her body had other damage internally, so she didn't make it. I just kept her going, probably too long, thinking OK the next day she will make a turn around. So basically I'm relating this because of how the zinc stopped the skin cells from growing abnormally.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

With medical care being the 3rd leading cause of death I think it is a great idea to encourage people to read.
Odds are...Vets can't be doing that much better than human docs if you get my drift. 
The information is out there and it just makes sense to try the simplest thing first. 
A handy tube of diaper rash ointment can be the answer to many issues. 

The complexities of ruminant nutrition is rarely a topic discussed with a vet- it is instant medication even at times with no diagnosis. Just start injecting. Her problem did not start overnight and it will not be cured overnight and certainly not with antibiotics and steroids which she will then have to detox. She obviously is lacking something. This is fairly easy to trace back to a breakdown of the systems that keep skin functioning and replacing itself normally. 

Normal skin production depends heavily on adequate zinc levels. This information is readily available. 
But I guarantee you no vet will take this approach either. It is too simple and there is no money to be made this way.
There is nothing 'too late' about this issue. She will normalize and have baby soft skin as soon as the issue is properly addressed.

So...yup...read up. :biggrin 
The info is out there. 

Lee


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## ladyliane (Aug 21, 2014)

I know this is an old thread, but I just wondered what happened to the goat? We have a goat that had something like this and we were told it was allergy related. Never could figure it out and didn't breed her because of it. Did they try zinc and did it work? It would be helpful for updates when people do searches on here...


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