# Pasterns



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

I have a very nice yearling doe that I had high hopes for who is showing some slippage in her left rear pastern. She stands normally but when she walks it occasionally ‘unlocks’ and breaks backward.
Would additional selenium help this issue? Is there any benefit from taping? I have been trimming once a week to make sure she is level but it has not stopped this happening. I hate the idea of culling her. She is otherwise very nice and from a good milking dam but if she is breaking down as a yearling how will she carry kids? What a disappointment! Is there any reason to hold out hope that I can continue with her as planned?
Any suggestions welcome. 
Lee


----------



## saanengirl (May 12, 2009)

Sometimes pasterns in young does can correct themselves. I don't think that taping would help anything. Selenium might help, depending on how much selenium is already in the diet. If she is a good doe in every other way I'd wait and see how she does.


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Well I can't see selling her to anyone with potential breakdown so I guess I will hang in there and see if more selenium will help.
L


----------



## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

add some Vit E and do you copper bolus? seems a little strange to me that just one would do this I am no expert at all on this. so don't go by me.


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Sort of like how Sondra is feeling, if this was the long pastern/weak pastern syndrome than it would be both. As we breed for long bone, all bones will elongate which is going to leave us with longer pasterns also. Why strong feet and legs are obviously important, the whole package.

Having said that I also wouldn't be critiquing a young milker if she just kidded the last 3 months. When her tendons loosen and she pours all that into kids the last 50 days, they grow from the size of small puppies to their 8 pound bouncing selves, but also starts milking.....a huge drain on her, and then they don't really eat like they should, everything is changed, everything is different. I do bolster mine with bo-se every month for awhile.

Snap a photo of your foot trimming....put her up on the milkstand and look at her from behind, or better have someone lead her around on a solid suface if you have one...you can find that in hoof trimming you are taking heel off the inside hoof of the right rear (right as in standing behind her) because that leg is harder to trim being on the far side of her body when you are right handed. Someone taught me to trim the right rear foot from the same side of the body as the left rear foot, just bringing it over to me, instead of trying to trim from the right rear side of the body.

Also the opposite of what it seems, the more heel you take off the more her hoof/foot/pastern will move heel to toe as she walks. In making sure feet are level and compact, you do want to give the girls heels to walk on...no stilleto's but certainly a little more heel than toe....but once again...shallow heels as in does with spongy hooves that don't grow heels, they fall over before they grow, can be fixed with bolusing for copper, makes for a much stronger hoof all the way around.

Good luck with all this. vicki


----------



## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

make sure she has adequate BO-SE. If she is from long bone patterned does this will improve with time so don't cull her as yet. Try trimming more off the toe than the heel.


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Thanks for all that input-I will get her on a monthly bo-se and see what happens.
Appreciate the encouragement. Her mom is long boned but she is not particularly so and is actually one of the wider more stocky gals on the place which is why it was a puzzle.
I have been concentrating on taking the toe off trying to get a bit more heel. She does have very small back feet for how large she is. Maybe just a growth stage. hope.
Thanks all
Lee


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

A quick update- I am doing a happy dance. Pinaria is UP on her foot like a real goat! Thank you! I am so happy. She is so nice otherwise I was dreading making her into dog food. How long should i do the monthly BO-Se???
Lee


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

As long as you like, in the amounts given, 1cc per 40 pounds other than south dakota and other places with high amounts of selenium and you would know if this was your area....it's harmless. I am giving 3 older does monthly shots, I am not sure I am actually seeing anything, but the idea perked my interest when Sue Reith wrote about it. Vicki


----------



## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

I once saw a breeder put down goats (first fresheners) who went down on pasterns when they kidded for "weak" pasterns. Actually, the hormones that control the ligaments also make the pasterns loose too. In a few weeks or months they will tighten up. But these now dead goats didn't get a chance!

As Vicki said, we are breeding for long bone pattern and that makes every bone seem to be long too. A first freshener is still growing and changing. She will go through burst of growth as she is still a gangly teenager. Giving proper minerals, BO-SE, copper are all a part of management and so is proper hoof trimming. All you need to do is simply trim incorrectly and "bingo" they appear to have bad or weak pasterns. This can be fixed by re-thinking your hoof trimming and trimming it in a corrective manner to get back what you messed up. 

When examining your hooves - don't do it on the milk stand as feet do weird things on the milkstand. On the milk stand, she won't stand comfortably and with assurance but somewhat awkward. The same thing can happen when you are pulling them by the collar - any resistance will put the foot in unnatural position. Instead, let her stand naturally (not being held) on a flat surface such as a concrete floor. Watch her as she walks around. Remember on soft dirt or floors carpeted with wood chips will also give you the wrong stance. 

I find that it is important to trim kids regularly or you can ruin their feet by adulthood. There always seems to be a toe that wants to become dominant. You have to keep it trimmed down to match the smaller toe. Recently I saw some kids that were rocking back on their pasterns because the owners didn't trim the heel down correctly. Unlevel heels will cause the whole foot to rock back and make you think you have weak pasterns when it is nothing but you have made a rocking chair out of their feet by not trimming the whole hoof. 

There's a book out there called "N-a-n-n-y Manicures" that might be helpful to read. Try googling for it. (I have hyphenated it because the forum changes the word to doe)


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Thank you Tim. I will look for that book. I noticed her slipping but only on one foot. She never fell off full time but would slip out in some stances. I will give her time and BoSe and try to get the trimming correct. Since I see she is solid now I think it can be fixed. Hoping!
Lee


----------



## Bella Star (Oct 27, 2007)

Very GOOD information as I always want to improve the pasterns, THANKS


----------

