# Kid Health Management



## Country-Brooks Farm (Jan 21, 2008)

Hi everyone,
I am new to the group and thought i would introduce myself. I am Cody Welch. I am owner of Country-Brooks Farm. I have been breeding Alpines for about 4 years. I breed for show and milk production. I have a very healthy herd of about 15-20 goats. But, I have yet to find a health care routine that is suitable to my climate for kids. If anyone has a good health routine that they follow for their kids with little vaccination, please give me some pointers.
Thanks!


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## 2Sticks (Dec 13, 2007)

Hi Cody,
Welcome! I see from your web site that you in Central Ms. I'm in South Ms. and have Nubians. Glad to have you on the board!

Tamera


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## Country-Brooks Farm (Jan 21, 2008)

Thanks! Do you show? Mississippi Goat Association is a great orginazition for Mississippi breeders. They have two ADGA sanctioned shows each year and a one day milk test/fun sho. The website is www.mississippigoatassociation.org


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Since your also in the south your problems are likely similar to me...and welcome to the forum 

The does are vaccinated (CD&T, Lysigin for staph, and a pasteurella vaccintaion) before being bred (pasterurella) and before kidding (CD&T and a booster of Lysigin) so they have real viable immunites in the colostrum to give to the kids. I also prebreeding and prekidding give Bo-se. I also use a wonderful mineral mix...all of this gives you healthy kids. Since kids are born sterile, high quality colostrum is a must, and it doesn't come from first fresheners. You really want to use colostrum from your oldest does, even if all the kids you have only get 2 to 4 ounces of it, and then the rest from their young dam.....sure they can all drink moms colostrum but the improvement in herd health in your kids when they drink old doe colostrum is really amazing.

At birth all my kids get their bo-se shots 1/2cc, little tiny high multiples get 1/4cc...and a 300IU unit walmart vitamin E capsule...snip the end and squish in the mouth...navels sprayed and feet sprayed with iodine. They get 20 ounces minimum of heat treated colostrum before they are 12 hours old and then go on pasteurised milk.

Before they are 3 weeks old they are started on a cocci prevention, I use Corid and a worming, I use Valbazen but my kids are not living on ground adults live on...if your kids are with adults or on pasture where adults live you have to worm them with what works for your adults...here cydectin. They stay on this schedule of being wormed every 3 weeks, and on their cocci prevention for 5 days, every 21 days, until well grown...then I start fecal sampling to see when they need to be wormed. Cocci meds are then started in the grain they eat until 100 days pregnant, they are then switched slowly to milkstand grain.

I vaccinate at 6, 9 and 12 weeks with CD&T...since mom is vaccinted to bolster her colostrum, I don't really worry about vaccinating young anymore, and actually think it interfers with maternal immunity if you do vaccinate too young. But I am also a creature of habit, so kids are fed exactly the same thing day in and day out, no cold bottles when they are used to warm and no full lambar if previously they were on measured amounts, no changes in grain period.

I breed my does at 8 months, before this time they are given their pasteurella vaccine and also their lysigin for staph.

Hope this helps. Vicki


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## Country-Brooks Farm (Jan 21, 2008)

What is your opinion on Covexin 8, rather than CD&T?

Cody


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I would only use it if gangrenous mastitis or malignant edema is a problem in your herd. It has way to many clostridums that are not a problem in ruminants in my area for me to use this. 

I could see it being a valuable tool in the vaccinating of older goats, but it's way too many CC's and all are way too diluted to use in kids. If Tetanus or Entero is a problem in your herd, you are actually giving less Tetanus and less of the vaccinatable C&D parts of clostridiums that effect goats by using vaccines that contain many parts. Why some on this forum give plain C&D and plain T as seperate vaccinations. Vicki


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## Little Moon (Dec 29, 2007)

Welcome Cody. You will enjoy this forum so much, there is an incredible amount of knowledge here and everyone one is very helpful. Again, welcome.

Anne


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## Country-Brooks Farm (Jan 21, 2008)

I see. I have some kids that are a little over a month old. They were disbudded at around 2 weeks and given 1/2 cc of Covexin 8. Is it safe for me to assume that they should be protected, or, should i (if i can) give them the dose of CD&T antitoxin for good measure?


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## Odeon (Oct 26, 2007)

I quit using Covexin 8 back in the mid 90's. We kept getting horrible injection abscesses using it. Not many people in my area use it any more.

I actually don't vaccinate for much. I am a heavy believer in BoSe, and I give BoSe at least bi-annually, in conjunction with Copasure.

I don't give CD&T. I will upon request for reserved kids, so they are on the same schedule as where they will be going.

I have a cocci prevention regeme, and I am consistent on feeding/milking, etc. Same times, same amounts. Worm bi-annually as well. 

Thats pretty much it.

Ken


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## Aja-Sammati (Oct 26, 2007)

Welcome, Cody! 

You'll find other MGA members here- Tim Pruitt, Janet Cooper, & Rett Clark for example. 

You can't have complete immunity from just one shot...


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## Good Goats (Oct 26, 2007)

Welcome Cody!


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## KUrby (Oct 27, 2007)

I think this subject should be made into a sticky for all us newcomers and newbies to goats.
It should list everything from a day old to breeding age to yearly maintenence. Including bucks and does.
All things done to a goat. Shots,wormers, trimmings everything. Then we can all print it off and put in our book, instead of bits and pieces from here and there and maybe it might be less confusing for some of us if it was done this way(me). :biggrin
Karen


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## Country-Brooks Farm (Jan 21, 2008)

I agree!! But, I know that everyone does different things and use different meds so everyone will not follow the same schedule... I looked on fiascofarm.com. They have a LOT of info including a health schedule from birth! 

Cody


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## Country-Brooks Farm (Jan 21, 2008)

This is something i have come up with. Please critique it and give opinion:

Within one hour after birth:
Make sure kid receives colostrum
Dip umbilical cord in iodine

Day 3-5:
Give dose of Probios to get rumen going ( rumen don't start working at this age so is a waste of probios)

Week 1-2:
Dusbud and give 2cc Bar-Vac CD&T in one side, and 1½cc Tetanus Antitoxin in their other side. (Give booster shot 21 days after first shot)
( here you are being counter productive give one or the other if you give tetanus antitoxin then wait 10 days and start the series of CD/T and give it 3 time 21 days apart)

Week 3:
Start coccidiosis prevention: Give 1cc Di-Methox once daily for one week by mouth (this is given Di-methox 40% dose: day one-1 cc per 10LBS
day 2thru 5 give half the dose given on day 1)

Week 4:
De-worm ( I worm with Valbazzen for tapes)

Week 5: 
Give booster shot of 2cc Bar-vac CD&T. ( 21 days after their first shot at disbudding)

Week 7:
Give 1cc Di-Methox coccidiosis prevention once daily for one week

Week 8:
De-Worm (if needed)
Tattoo

Week 12:
Give 1cc Di-Methox coccodiosis prevention once daily for one week
De-worm
Trim Hooves


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## Halo-M Nubians (Oct 26, 2007)

Di-methox 40% dose: day one-1 cc per 10LBS
day 2thru 5 give half the dose given on day 1


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Cody you aren't going to find many folks who know much about goats using fiasco farm for much. I do send folks there because I think her idea on raising kids on mom and then taking them away at night so you can milk in the morning is a wonderful idea. And I am sure there is other info on there worth reading...but her med ideas are very simply incorrect.

This would mean your Alpine doelings are weighing 10 pounds at 3 weeks old and at 7 weeks old they haven't gained one ounce and still weigh 10 pounds.  We know alpines are born weighing 10 pounds 

Rethink what you are doing, and obviously you wouldn't be here asking questions if your previous schedule works, it doesn't...

If you prevaccinate your dams, so the kids recieve high quality colostrum you don't have to vaccinate kids that young, they are being 'vaccinated' naturally via moms colostrum. And honestly a toxoid that young isn't likely working anyway. I know other breeders...Longman that use this, and sure it works for her (hmmm.or is it working because she has a very old long lived bloodline where kids are getting colostrum from very old mature does living in the herd?), it must or she surely wouldn't pass it along, but smaller amounts of vaccine simply don't work and their isn't one bit of science to it. Like just because they are goats we should give less...in no other med is this true, except baby vaccination? No....Vicki


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## LMonty (Oct 25, 2007)

I'd liek to throw in a question- Ive got a brand new herd, and theyve been here for less than a year, only one older doe out of 4 the other 3 are FF. Obviously less than optimal colostrum for the microclimate of my farm this year! 

I was thinking I might be safer to give tetanus (maybe antitoxin?) before disbudding this year. My does did get CD and T in Sept. Thoughts?


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## KUrby (Oct 27, 2007)

Cody this is what I was wanting to see. Now for older does and buck maintence in the same way. If others would chime in for there area, this would be a great sticky! for all!
Karen


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Monty, the problem with antitoxin is that it only last about 10 days, so you would have to give it again, and again while your toxoid CD&T starts to take effect. You can start your own immunity bank in the goats you have by vaccinating them with anything that is a problem in your area....entero, tetanus, pnemonia, staph etc.. Being super careful with heat treating so you don't destroy antibody. Vicki


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## LMonty (Oct 25, 2007)

Thanks, Vicki. I guess the ten days would do it then, just a little extra protection when disbudding. Maybe not necessary, but it makes me feel better! 

I figure my does to start in mid to late Feb- I say goopy butts the third week in Sept IIRC. Should I CD & T the does again soon to build up the immunity to that? I'll grab some PNE vaccine when I'm in town this week. 

Ordered the iron today, got an X 30. Would have liked the 50 but it should do for now.


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## Country-Brooks Farm (Jan 21, 2008)

Vicki, do you reccomend vaccinating pregnant does with the CD&T 4 weeks before kidding? I have never vaccinated my grown goats with anything and they do just fine. But, from what i have gathered, kids do better drinking milk from does that have been vaccinated?? Like an extra immunity boost??

Cody


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## Bethany (Jan 9, 2008)

LMonty said:


> Ordered the iron today, got an X 30. Would have liked the 50 but it should do for now.


I have the X 30 and really like it, it gets super hot and does the job quick.

Vicki (or anybody else), what's the exact temp you heat treat your colostrum at?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Thanks, Vicki. I guess the ten days would do it then, just a little extra protection when disbudding.
......................

Monty, but the incubation period for tetanus is 21 days  So with the antitoxin only working 10 days there is still an open wound....well you get it 

Yes Cody my does get their booster vaccinations with CD&T and their booster for staph 3 weeks before they kid. One week before they kid they get their Bo-se and are dairy clipped.

Bethany, No lower than 135 and no higher than 140 for one hour. Vicki


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## Country-Brooks Farm (Jan 21, 2008)

What is the difference in giving the Bo-Se BEFORE or AFTER they kid?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Bo-se is just not about giving selenium and some E, it is about immunity, it bolsters immunity in the doe when you give it right as she is the most stressed she will be, before a doe kids she needs as much help as she can get to round out her mineral needs, so her colostrum is the best it can be. I also have very high multiples, and want the doe to retain her good muscle tone and selenium helps combat white muscle disease/ nutritional muscular destropy...with the heart being a major muscle...also pasterns etc. Vicki


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## Country-Brooks Farm (Jan 21, 2008)

Oh Ok. Makes much more since now!! 
Thanks

Cody


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## Alpine Haven Farm (Nov 4, 2007)

Forgive me for jumping into the middle of this thread....but I have a question about the Bo-Se. Have heard/read plenty about it. Never used it as I'm just starting my 2nd year with the goats, will be having my first kids in a month, praying all goes well. 

Can you get any of the same benefits as the injectable Bo-Se, if you were to feed a regular crumble or powdered Vitamin E - Selenium Supplement? Or are they totally removed from each other? Sorry for the silly question.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Sure you can...the problem is how do you know how much to use? You would need to blood test a few does, use the feed through and see if it raises the number for you. Raising the number is what we are after, because most of us aren't dealing with true defficency with this, we are just trying to bolster the does immune system or give us more kids. We know that 1cc per 40 pounds of bo-se works for this, and it's why we give this information. There are crumbles and gels that are selenium and E, they would work as well if someone would do the leg work on them. Vicki


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