# EXTREME Staph Dermatitis



## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

This is kinda confusing. :/

Yearling ff. Kidded 03/17. She had a light case after freshening and I treated with chlorhexidine and desitin. It improved, but didn't clear up. Had a case of milk fever, treated her and she seemed fine, then as soon as I quit treating, milk fever came back, so I dried her up. This was a month after freshening-late April. 
Then she started to dry up lop-sided, so changed some things and started milking her again. First couple milkings was barely a shot glass full and now we're up to 3+ lbs/day. When I dried her up, the staph went away.
It's back. With a vengence. I noticed at pm milking last night that it was *everywhere* that I gave her dairy clip. Up around behind/tail, down back legs, fore udder/belly, and of course all over her udder, and on the inside of her back legs.
After am milking today, I was scritching her chin and noticed bumps on her jawline...down her neck...on top (base) of her ears and inside (the underside) of her ears (nubian). 
Tonight when I got her back on the stand, I gave her a whole body look-over. Where I gave the CMPK shots--is bad. You can tell exactly where the CMPK pooled by where the staff bumps are--almost on top of each other and those areas are rough and raised. But there are bumps ALL OVER HER. On her chest, down the back of all four legs, sides, belly---just ALL OVER. 
No one else has any staph dermatitis. Her dam does get it lightly once in awhile, but hasn't had any this year. Pen is dry. Vaccinated with Lysigin.
I have tried probably anything you can name topically, but am thinking this is going to take something systematic. Any suggestions?
Also any thoughts on WHY? Would CMPK make it worse for some reason? Can staph be an *allergic* reaction?
Thanks


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

Bumps can be part of an allergic reaction and not all bumps are staph. Can you get a scraping cultured?


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

It would be late this week before I could (Thur/Fri). Definitely will. Good idea.  I know it itches her and just wish I could figure out how to treat it and get her better.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

They make some medicated shampoos for dogs, maybe one of those would help her. I also wonder if it might just be an allergy or something. Are they just bumps, or are they little pustules? Have you tried giving her some benedryl to see if it helps?


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

Pustules. It reminds me of when my daughter was on Prednisone and came down with chicken pox. Chicken pox on top of chicken pox--especially in any moist/warm areas. But on the doe, the area where I gave CMPK (over the shoulder) is not a moist/warm area. ? They're very small bumps, just like the staff bumps her dam gets occasionally, but hers has always cleared up in a couple days with just chlorhexidine.
I think I have some Benedry or some kind of antihistimine, so will start her on that. At least it should help the itching. Gonna try to get her clipped in the next couple days, so will try the medicated shampoo--I may still have some dog shampoo, if not, then I think theres some Head & Shoulders around here somewhere. Another friend suggested a lime/sulfer dip/spray. Jeffers carries one, but I think I can get them at the feed store and just make up my own.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Get a scraping before you bath her.
Add tea tree EO and Penny Royal. She is pregnant so you can do that. 5 drops of both to the shampoo. Bath her really good. 

Then I would wait on the results from the lab. 

I know this sounds a bit off but do you deworm sub-q also? When our buck came down with something much like this I gave him his normal dewormer orally and another sub-q...it went away. Since I have switched to doing it this way it has never come back. 

Tam


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I wouldn't be doing much of anything else to this poor does immune system. You are destroying her skin by using topical products. I would do a milk test on her and then follow it with rounds of steroids and antihistamines (but only if they are itchy and weepy) contained under the skin, leave her alone.

Her body can be jump started back with steroids.

You have to look at this is a total breakdown of her immune system, usually triggered by a disease process. She crashed metabolically and had milk fever, which then triggered the dermatitis, now it's like pemphigus,with her skin cells now reproducing faster than they slough. Support her immune system, and first and foremost figure out what is causing the milkfever.


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

Caprine Beings said:


> Get a scraping before you bath her.
> Add tea tree EO and Penny Royal. She is pregnant so you can do that. 5 drops of both to the shampoo. Bath her really good.
> 
> Tam


"She ISN'T pregnant so you can do that." :biggrin

I understood what you meant, just wanted to make sure newbies/lurkers didn't misunderstand.  I've used tea tree on her-didn't work. Don't have penny royal. I've used my pet soap-neem/tea tree, my Bug-B-Gone soap--tons of essential oils, neem, botanicals. Nada. Even used the Bug-B-Gone lotion and Aloe and Tea Tree lotion (my goat milk lotions). 
I've tried anti-fungals, anti-bacterial spray, triple anti-biotic ointment, etc, etc, etc. My sister has a cleaning spray called Odo Ban that says it kills staph, salmonella, HIV virus... She's suppose to be getting me a bottle and was gonna try that too. But then I noticed it all over and was hoping for an antibiotic or something injectable I could give her, so posted.

And, CRUD--I just soaked her down with chlorhexidine. EXACTLY how do you do a scraping? Have never done one. With what? Into what? I was just gonna run her up to the vet Thur/Fri. Wish I hadn't of soaked her, then I coulda scraped and had my daughter drop it off tomarrow. <sigh>

Gave her some liquid allergy med. At least maybe she'll quit itching.

Wormer--I give orally. She just had cydectin (pour on) on May 5. I have ivomec and ivomec+ injectable. What do you give? Explain more please.  And, yes--sounds *off*. LOL Weird, but I'd give it a try.


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

I concur with Vicki on steroids being something to consider.


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

I'm not sure I would use Odoban on the skin. It is a carcinogen, not to be used on skin.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Zinc Zinc Zinc Denise!


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Haha, was going to say that Lee would tell you to use zinc. 

Skin scraping-you need a slide, mineral oil, and dull scalpel. Find a few of the most yucky spots and wipe the scapel in a drop of mineral oil on the slide, then scrap 90 degrees to the skin until it bleeds a little. You have to go that deep to get to some types of mites. Usually, a scraping doesn't tell you all that much except whether or not they have mites, but I bet there are labs you could send to to see what kind of bacteria is there or something.


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## tlcnubians (Jan 21, 2011)

You might also see if she'll eat raw garlic. It has proven antibacterial, antfungal and antiviral properties and is an immune system booster. Caroline


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

NubianSoaps.com said:


> I wouldn't be doing much of anything else to this poor does immune system. You are destroying her skin by using topical products. I would do a milk test on her and then follow it with rounds of steroids and antihistamines (but only if they are itchy and weepy) contained under the skin, leave her alone.
> 
> Her body can be jump started back with steroids.
> 
> You have to look at this is a total breakdown of her immune system, usually triggered by a disease process. She crashed metabolically and had milk fever, which then triggered the dermatitis, now it's like pemphigus,with her skin cells now reproducing faster than they slough. Support her immune system, and first and foremost figure out what is causing the milkfever.


Somehow missed this this morning. EXACTLY what I was wanting to hear.

I sent in a milk test--it came back totally screwed up. I need to call Eva. No SCC count, no protein or fat. Said she milked 4.3#. This was when I was drying her up. I just sent in a sample and marked her milk as 0.0 both a.m. and p.m.

Thank goodness someone said 'NO MORE TOPICAL'. I *feel* like it's irritating her skin, but had no other ideas of what to do. 

Steroid--Dexamethazone? Dose? You do 3 days regular and 3 days half dose, right?

Support her immune system? BoSe. Anything else? Lee said Zinc. I used the Desitin 40% extra strength. Didn't help much. Oral or injectable? More info please Lee.  My mineral is good on zinc, good level and multiple forms, but have considered supplementing otherwise cuz our water is so bad and occasionally have these skin issues. I copper bolus 3Xyear due to high iron/low copper.

Lysigin. I'd always given 5cc. This last year I did 2cc. Initial and booster and annual for those that had it before. She got 2cc initial and booster pre-kidding. Wondering if giving her another dose of 5cc may help? 
There was a convo on FB group (I KNOW! LOL), about a gal that used a Lysigin regimen to clear up staph mastitis. Wondering if this would be something to try. ? Would have to go back and find it for details.


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

This is the product Lee mentioned before. It's a more bio available form:
http://www.entirelypets.com/zinpro-procare-zn-2-lbs.html


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/f20/misc-injectables-lute-oxy-epi-pain-etc-saanendoah-com-16506/

DEXAMETHASONE 
.Rx item 
A corticosteroid - the natural function of corticosteroids is to protect the supply of blood glucose critical for normal brain function).

A synthetic analogue of prednisolone (more potent anti-inflammatory therapeutic action and diversified hormonal and metabolic effects). Corticosteroid therapy is directed at modifying the body's response to inflammation; it is not directed at treating the underlying disease process. 
Most common strength: 2mg/mL of dexamethasone, but there is a 4mg/mL solution available. 
Brand names: Azium® (Schering-Plough) - Generic Dexamethasone 
CAUTION: Do not use in pregnant does, it can cause them to abort. 
USES AND DOSE RATES: use the smallest dose that achieves the desired effect in order to limit adverse side effects. In general, anti-inflammatory doses are 10 times the physiological levels, doses to suppress the immune system are twice the anti-inflammatory dose, and doses to treat shock are 5 to 10 times the immunosuppressive dose. 
In combination with fluxinxin meglumine to treat E-colisepticemia. 
Used as an antiinflammatory it prevents the development of the inflammatory response. As an anti-inflammatory and pain reliever for joint and bone injuries (dose rate: 1/2 to 1ml/20 lbs). 
For head injuries or "brain burn" following too vigorous disbudding (1-2mg/20 lbs). 
For shock (1-2mg/20 lbs). To : 1. Increase capillary blood flow (improved circulation), 2. Decrease absorption of endotoxins, 3. Decrease production of Myocardial Depressant Factor 4. Decrease organ damage. 
Following stroke or other cerebral vascular accidents (1-2mg/20 lbs). 
Combined with thiamine (B1) to help reverse brain swelling associated with polioencephalomalacia . 
Ketosis (4-8ml). Glucocorticoid reaction. The gluconeogenic effects of dexamethasone, when administered intramuscularly, are generally noted within the first 6-12 hours (faster via IV route). Blood sugar levels rise to normal levels within 12-24 hours. Acetone bodies are reduced to normal concentrations usually within 24 hours. The physical attitude of animals brightens and appetite improves, usually within 12 hours. Milk production, which is suppressed as a compensatory reaction in this condition, begins to increase. The recovery process usually takes from three to seven days. 
Allergic reactions to insect bites or other allergins (1/2 to 1ml/20 lbs). The anti-inflammatory effect of 0.75 mg of dexamethasone approximately corresponds to 5 mg of prednisolone or 20 mg of hydrocortisone. 
As supportive therapy in mastitis, metritis, traumatic gastritis and pyelonephritis, while appropriate primary therapy is administered. In these cases, the corticosteroid combats accompanying stress and enhances the feeling of general well-being. 
As supportive therapy while an animal is recuperating from severe debilitation and therefore eats better during the very critical period of early recuperation (dose rate: 1-2 mg/20 lbs 5-8ml to an adult doe, repeat in 12-24 hours ). 
As supportive therapy in inflammatory conditions, such as arthritic conditions, snake bite, acute mastitis, shipping fever, pneumonia, laminitis and retained placenta. 
To induce labor (parturation) before 144 days. Dex is the drug of choice for increasing the chance of live kids when inducing labor/paturation before 144 days. Dex does NOT bypass the stages involved in fetal lung maturation (production of surfactant) like prostaglandins (i.e. Lutalyse) do. Slower to work than oristagkandins with patruition taking 48 to 96 hours. 
In conjunction with prostaglandins when inducing labor (parturation) to hasten maturation of preterm or possible preterm fetal organs and tissues, particularly the lungs (to reduce respiratory distress syndrome (RDS) ) , but also the cardiovascular, respiratory, nervous, and gastrointestinal systems. Dexamethasone and betamethasone are the preferred corticosteroids for antenatal therapy in human medicine. These two compounds are identical in biological activity and readily cross the placenta in their biologically active forms. They are devoid of mineralocorticoid activity, relatively weak in immunosuppressive activity, and exert longer duration of action than cortisol and methylprednisolone. 
Immune-suppression (treatment of conditions where the immune system is destructively hyperactive. Higher doses are required to actually suppress the immune system. 
Blood Calcium Reduction (in medical conditions where blood calcium is dangerously high treatment is needed to reduce levels to normal) 
May be used in animals with acute or chronic bacterial infections providing that the infections are controlled with appropriate antibiotics or chemotherapeutic agents. 
CAUTIONS: Because of the anti-inflammatory action of corticosteroids, signs of infection may be masked. Overdosage of some glucocorticoids may result in sodium retention, fluid retention, potassium loss and weight gain. 
DO NOT USE in combination with medications of the NSAID class (ie, Banamine (flunixin 
meglumine), aspirin, phenylbutazone (bute) [note: Bute may reduce the effects of corticosteroids], etc.) the combination of these medications could lead to bleeding in the stomach or intestine. 
CONTRAINDICATIONS : Except for emergency therapy, do not use in animals with chronic nephritis (kidney disease). The existence of congestive heart failure, diabetes and osteoporosis are relative contraindications. Do not use in viral infections during the viremic stage. 
WITHDRAWAL : Meat none. Milk 72 hours. 
STORAGE : Store between 2-30°C (36-86°F).

Dexamethasone is an anadrenal corticosteroid, a member of the glucocorticoid class of hormones. A steroid - unlike anabolic steroids used in sports medicine, these are "catabolic" steroids. Instead of building the body up, they are designed to break down stored resources (fats, sugars and proteins) so that they may be used as fuels in times of stress. Cortisone is a related hormone. Glucocorticoids hormones are produced naturally by the adrenal glands. Dexamethasone does not have activity in the kidney leading to the conservation of salt. This means that the classical side effects of steriod use (excessive thirst and excessive urination) are less pronounced with this steroid than with others. 
Experimental animal studies: have revealed that dexamethasone possesses greater anti-inflammatory activity than many steroids. Veterinary clinical evidence indicates that dexamethasone has approximately 20 times the anti-inflammatory activity of prednisolone and 70 to 80 times that of hydrocortisone.

Corticosteroids: 
Methylprednisolone sodium succinate (Solu-Medrol®) 
Prednisolone sodium succinate (Solu-Delta-Cortef®) 
Dexamethasone sodium phosphate (Azium SP®) 
Dexamethasone (Azium®) 
Flumethasone (Flucort®) 
Methylprednisolone acetate (Depo-Medrol®) 
Triamcinolone acetonide (Vetalog®) 
Isoflupredone acetate (Predef 2X®) 
Betamethasone dipropionate (Betasone®)

PHARMACOLOGY: Like other glucocorticoids, dexamethasone acts on the metabolism (in particular on the carbohydrates) and it inhibits the adrenal cortex through feedback on the hypothalamus and pituitary; it also has strong anti-inflammatory and immunosuppressive action.

Dexamethasone use is likely to change liver enzyme blood testing and interfere with testing for thyroid diseases.

Dexamethasone is approximately 10 times stronger than prednisone/prednisolone.

Its use requires certain precautions: If used for more than one dose it must be used with an antibiotic as it surpresses the body's natural immunity while being used, and leaves the animal open to infection.

*********************************************************************

Looks like .5-1cc/20#? So if I start with 1cc/20# for 3 days and then .5cc/20# for 3 more days? Should I give an antibiotic with it?

"Blood Calcium Reduction (in medical conditions where blood calcium is dangerously high treatment is needed to reduce levels to normal)"
Found this interesting since the worst area is over the skin where the CMPK pooled. ???


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Exactly, and yes an antibiotic, like Naxcel, our broadest spectrum. Since you are giving so much dex I would give the first dose IM, in several IM shots. Clean needle and syringe with each shot, so hopefully you have muscle to give it in again, you will have no choice over the course of the treatment to move subq......why we do IV the first 3 shots when treating. We have had miracles with using Dex, especially for mastitis....I hope whoever PM'd me about mastitis reads the blurb in here, and uses this info.

And thanks to Joyce of saanendoah.com everyone should use her drug list, everyone should also have it printed out.... as they search for answers. Vicki


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

Don't have Naxel.  Nuflor? Or I have Biomycin or Gentamycin(sp?).

Gave her a booster of Lysigin and BoSe at p.m. milking. She LOVES the cherry flavored allergy med (antihistimine). I have to use a 6cc syringe to draw it out, as the larger ones won't fit in the bottle and I give her 15-18cc--so 3 syringes. She sucks it up like a kid hitting a lambar and flaps her tongue begging for more. ROFL


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Gent, but then it's off the milk string for the year. Vicki


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

No problem. Soap milk.


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

Just want to verify as I understand that Gent isn't anything you want to mess up the dose. I have GentaMax 100, it's 100mg/mL, so with the info below the dose would be 1-1.5cc/100# twice a day?

********************************************************************

http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/f20/antibiotics-saanendoah-com-16512/

*GENTAMICIN*: (*gentamicin* sulfate) 
Do not use in food producing animals 
Gentocin®, Garacin 
50mg/ml or 100mg/ml 
DOSE : Given SC (SQ) at <1 to 1.50mg/lb twice daily. Often combined with penicillin to achieve a broad spectrum of activity and to minize the development of resistant strains. When *gentamicin* is administered together with penicillin, the two, medicines must be administered at different sites. NOTE: Dose carefully in obese animals (decrease by 10- 20% in very obese animals), the aminoglycosides do not distribute to fat. 
Ophthalmic Solution: (3 mg/ml) - Mix 1ml if 50mg/ml strength in 16ml Saline Solution [or commercial eye drops i.e. Visine] and use to treat infected eyes. Ophthalmic use may retard corneal epithelial healing. 
WITHDRAWAL : Not approved for meat or lactating animals in the US. Can be detected in kidney tissues for up to 18 months. 
Use with carebacterial resistance to *gentamicin* is developing .

http://www.farad.org/publications/digests/062005ExtralabelIntramammary.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2666204/
(added by forum for your reading on withdrawls.)
CAUTION: Before using always check the label for the strength, *gentamicin* comes in several strengths and administering a 50mg dose of 100mg *gentamicin* could cause serious damage. 
CAUTION: *Gentamicin* must be carefully dosed by the weight of the animal [weigh chart ] and for a limited time (3-5 days), as it is highly toxic to the kidneys (acute tubular necrosis) and ears ( irreversible acoustic nerve damage ) when overdosed even a relitively small amount or used for extended periods of time, particularly in dehydrated, debilitated or young animals. Avoid in geriatric animals. 
Do not use with diuretics as it increases the risk of kidney damage. 
Do not use in combination with other aminoglycosides. 
Do not use with other products that may cause hearing loss, vestibular disease, or kidney disease. 
Do not use with general anesthetics. 
CAUTION : *GENTAMICIN* SHOULD NEVER BE USED IN FOOD PRODUCING ANIMALS OR ANIMALS INTENDED FOR FOOD (residues can be detected in kidney tissues for up to 18 months).


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

Update! We finished up her Dex/Gent and she is improving. Her udder is CLEAR!!!  No bumps at all. And none on her head/jaw/neck. And the ones on her sides and back of her legs seem to be improving. We have a show on the 1st and her fees are already paid and I thought I was gonna have to scratch her and leave her home. I'm holding out hope that she will be clear by then. 

And the really good news--SHE MILKED 4.2# TODAY!!!  May not seem like alot, but this is the ff that wasn't even milking 3#/day for the first month, came down with milk fever, treated, relapsed, dried up (lopsided) and started milking again barely getting a shotglass full the first couple days. And her udder is SCRUMPTIOUS!! She's steadily increasing .1-.2# every day or two. And her udder is EVEN! 

I love this little doe and am sooooo happy! THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

That is great news, Denise! Glad she's made such a big improvement for you.


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