# What month of pregnancy can you feel the babies?



## Camille (Dec 2, 2008)

One of my goats that may be pregnant is really filling out. Her tummy is getting round and if she has been bred successfully she will kidd in April. When/how can you feel the babies?

TIA

Camille


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## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

Well I just felt some kicks in Delilah and she's either due 2/9 or 3/12.

Need to feel right infront of the udder to feel the kids. The kicks are pretty obvious.


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## luvmygoats3 (Jan 12, 2009)

If your standing behind the goat would the baby or babies be on the left side? This will be my first year at kidding. Thanks..


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

More on the right than the left, but when they get far enough along they seem to be all over. You may not be able to ever feel them the whole pregnancy as well. The earliest I've felt them is about 5 weeks from due date.


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## homeacremom (Nov 6, 2007)

The last month is the earliest I can feel babies. If it is only a single or sometimes twins I can do what some people call "bouncing'. Never works on the does that are just full of kids. Usually, but not always, in the last 2 weeks I can feel lumps and hooves moving around right in front of the udder.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Well in over 10 yrs with goats I have felt once babies kicking and was in the last 2 wks so don't get your hopes up with this feeling thing.


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

:lol I say it, again, don't use this as a source of knowing if there's babies or not. It's strictly a fascination thing. Only time I feel babies is when I go in to retrieve one. 
But again, I don't bother my does with stomach scratches and certainly not their udders. If someone wants a scratch, I scratch where they can't. Brisket, side of neck, top of tail head. But, I don't *feel* for kids.
Kaye


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2009)

:yeahthat

I guess I am just not that excited to feel babies move. I leave them be as I know they are bred thanks to Bio Tracking. 

My does love a good rump scratching. 

Sara


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## Ravens Haven (Oct 26, 2007)

:yeahthat

Now I know most of you have been heavy bred at one time or another, do you remember folks coming up and petting you stomach to feel the baby move, well I can and I can tell you I hated it, I actually punched a man one time for doing that very thing. So if I hate I can just imagine how your poor does feel every time you bounce or push to feel their babies. Do them a favor and scratch what they can't or give them a treat and wait the babies will come out they can't stay in there forever so soon enough you will be able to pick'em up, scratch'em, hear'em scream, and feel'em kick without torturing the poor doe.

:biggrin
Autumn


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## DostThouHaveMilk (Oct 25, 2007)

Usually the last 4-6 weeks. Depends on how many they are carrying and how deep bodied they are.
I use this as a tool in determining when someone is brought to the barn. It's used along with hand breeding dates for December/January/February due dates. Those are the months when it is a bad thing if the doe ends up kidding at the goat pen and not at the milking barn. 
I have definitely been wrong. 
The rumen looks and feels an awful lot like fetal movement. A lot of people are mistaking what they think is fetal movement, but in reality is the rumen. I'm sure I've done that on occassion.
I don't "bounce" exactly like Fias Co Farm has on their site. I just place my hand in front of the udder to the right a bit and push up slightly. I'm feeling for a heavy uterus or for fetal parts.


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## Qvrfullmidwife (Oct 25, 2007)

on the other hand Autumn...that big pregnant belly gets mighty itchy and if you cant scratch it yourself...you might appreciate a hand in that area!

We had cable spools in the doe pen for them to lay on when they so desire. We had a doe yesterday who looked like she was trying to jump up and couldnt make it, her front knees were up there and her back legs stayed on the ground...the more I looked the more I am sure that she was scratching her belly on the wooden edge of the spool!


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## Ravens Haven (Oct 26, 2007)

Well scratching is one thing but bumping, pushing, squeezing is sure another.


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

> It's used along with hand breeding dates for December/January/February due dates.


giggling...you HAVE breeding dates and due dates...why *bump*?
And Bio-Tracking is STILL the best method for determining preg.

Whatever...this could go on and on...so, if you *like* bumping, go for it, if you feel sorry for those preg. does, don't. At least no one is using, a once suggested mode of a piece of iron rod! OMG, talking about totally insane!
Kaye


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## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

I don't think it is about determining pregnancy. I know for a fact 4 of mine are bred, but I still like to feel the babies move. Makes me excited every time I am lucky enough to feel one kicking around in there. I don't do the bumping thing. I just hug and feel.


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## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

Cotton Eyed Does said:


> I don't do the bumping thing. I just hug and feel.


Same here. Never did the bumping...and I guess my girls dont really mind my hand infront of their udder because they could move away if they wanted but they stand still...*shrugs* 
I highly doubt the bumping is all that comfortable so I wouldn't do that to them, and I just shake my head when I see someone posting about bumping the doe in late pregnancy.


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## Camille (Dec 2, 2008)

I appreciate all the responses..

This is my first time having goats and I am learning as I go. I would never dream of hurting my does. I have Nigerian Dwarfs. Can you explain more about biotracking? How much is it to test for pregnancy?

I am having a hard time finding a vet who deals with goats around here. Are there any tests I can do myself? Is it worth it for only 3 goats? 

Thanks so much,

Camille


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## ecftoggs (Oct 26, 2007)

We also do not "feel or bump" for babies. We like the sure thing of bloodwork or ultrasound. I have seen some inexperienced people swear by the fact that the doe is bred "because the felt the baby move" and then given the doe not one shot of Lutylase but two to induce a pregnancy that doesn't even exist. :duh
I just don't think that it is the most reliable thing and certainly wouldn't make any management decisions based on it either - just too much room for error. We will check a FF to see if an udder is developing - and boy do they ever hate that! Might just be my cranky Toggs though.
Mary


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## Ravens Haven (Oct 26, 2007)

Camille,

Biotracking www.biotracking.com test cost $7.50 each yes it is worth it for even one doe. You can pull you own blood for pregnancy test and CAE..I am now using biotracking for CAE also but you can also use WSU for the CAE Elisa testing.

Autumn


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## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

Hi Camille,

I saw your post and thought, "I didn't post anything about that?!" Ha Ha. Seems like very few people have our name so it was kind of "Twilight Zone" to see you signing MY name. LOL.

Camille


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## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)

Maybe some of you girls that do the National Circuit have forgot the joy of having just a few does and the excitement of not knowing what is coming next....

I feel the babies bump every time she gets on the stand to eat. She moves over to me and puts her big ole preggo belly on me for me to feel and that is the first time I ever felt it. She uses me for a scratching post and rubbing post most days. I enjoy the attention. I don't show, and thinking about doing it less and less all the time. I guess that even though we all enjoy the goat species, it's fun that we all have different goals and management practices. life would be boaring if we were all the same.
:rofl


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2009)

togg75 said:


> Maybe some of you girls that do the National Circuit have forgot the joy of having just a few does and the excitement of not knowing what is coming next....


Nope, haven't forgotten about it, just could really care less to feel unborn kids. I'll have my fill of them when they are born. 

And no, I hate not knowing what comes next.

I love my goats dearly, which is why I care enough to leave them be while they are pregnant!

Sara


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## ecftoggs (Oct 26, 2007)

togg75 said:


> Maybe some of you girls that do the National Circuit have forgot the joy of having just a few does and the excitement of not knowing what is coming next....


 I am not sure what shows a person attends or their size has to do with the anything on this subject. In fact it does not. I farm and raise livestock for a living, I do not show the hogs or cattle that I raise. Every birth is a miracle to me even though I have seen tens of thousands. Because our living comes from these animals we need to know for sure if they are bred or not. I do this by ultrasound which is non-evasive. It is also the earliest and most accurate way to know. Honestly it is very hard to tell a sow is pregnant before the last 3 weeks of gestation by visual (and they may have 12 or more inside) or other means. The late gestational period is when most of the fetal growth occurs in all animals including goats, before that is a crap shoot. 
I also show goats. Still enjoy every birth and the joy of what the new little ones are, even though ours are all brown and white. Pregnancies are a miracle and a delicate thing. I do nothing to endanger them. While most of the people on this thread are not doing any harm by feeling for kids, they must realize that most of the time they are not really feeling the kids and some people may not know how not to harm a pregnancy. Undue physical actions can be harmful. It is also not an accurate way to determing pregnancy by feeling for kids. 
So Mark, what does that have to do with anything in this discussion? I think that kidding/birthing season is the most exciting season of the year!
Tim


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## Camille (Dec 2, 2008)

wheytogosaanens said:


> Hi Camille,
> 
> I saw your post and thought, "I didn't post anything about that?!" Ha Ha. Seems like very few people have our name so it was kind of "Twilight Zone" to see you signing MY name. LOL.
> 
> Camille


That is so funny. I have never met anyone with my name before..


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Tim, that's the way I feel, every birth is just a miracle every time  I've only had two goats births here, so I'm talking in general.

Yes, I don't push and poke on my does. I put my hand on them and may put a teesy bit of pressure on them, but I feel them because the babies are moving and they shove into me. They keep up slurping their grain up all the while. I don't do that very often.. but I'm checking ligaments and booties/udders each feeding.


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

I like feeling the baby in MY belly move, but do get perturbed when total strangers want to come feel it--particularly without asking first! Once, I decided to reach out and touch the stranger's belly back.  It got the desired effect, and I'm thinking I'll probably use that one from now on.  Anyhow, I did hug a doe this morning just to see if I could feel anything. I can't, and my husband asked me, "WHAT are you doing?!" Uuuuhhhh.... letting her feel our baby move?


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## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)

ecftoggs said:


> togg75 said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe some of you girls that do the National Circuit have forgot the joy of having just a few does and the excitement of not knowing what is coming next....
> ...


I see your point Tim. Some of the responces in this thread seemed insensitive and belittling to the person who asked the original question. I guess I let it get the best of me and try and show the other side of the coin.

Kidding season is one of the reasons i got back into goats after 5 years out of goats. I learned a lot from my initial experience with goats and enjoy the forum for the insight it provides to the future of my herd.

About the show comment....I really was just checking to see if some people had gotten out of touch with what brought them into goating, the joy of it. I know in my life when I excel at something and I become the best at it, I tend to forget the joy of why I started doing it in the first place and let the drive to succeed overbear the childlike nature that was there in the beginning. There are many people like me (newbies) that ask silly questions on occasion. I hate to see anyone's joy belittled because of lack of knowledge.

Maybe I just took it wrong. I apologize if I offended anyone.


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

wheytogosaanens said:


> Hi Camille,
> 
> I saw your post and thought, "I didn't post anything about that?!" Ha Ha. Seems like very few people have our name so it was kind of "Twilight Zone" to see you signing MY name. LOL.
> 
> Camille


My uncle Frank's wife's name is Camille. She's a lovely woman. Then, a couple years ago, I met another woman named Camille. She helps my friend with her goats during show season. Her favorite breed is the Saanen.
As for feeling baby goats, I've been able to feel them on some goats a week or so prior to kidding by just touching the tummy. I don't bounce them. I generally know a doe is bred when she doesn't come back into heat. I run a cleanup buck for a month to be sure all are bred. A sure sign that one of my does is going to kid soon is that she bags up. Kathie


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## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

[/quote]
My uncle Frank's wife's name is Camille. She's a lovely woman. Then, a couple years ago, I met another woman named Camille. She helps my friend with her goats during show season. Her favorite breed is the Saanen.

Her favorite breed is Saanen - well of course it is! 

As far as the joy of birthing kids - we still love it (37 kids born this week! Boers). Probably a bit more tired (understatement of the year!) than we were when we had 2-6 goats kidding! And we have never tried to bounce a doe or feel the kids. If we see sea serpents, we think it is funny (BTW Sea Serpent doe had quintuplets!!!) but don't bother the does. Just like to let them wander around chewing their cuds looking dreamy... and perhaps a bit envious that they never have to worry about "getting their figure back".


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2009)

togg75 said:


> Maybe I just took it wrong. I apologize if I offended anyone.


Yes, I think you did take it the wrong way. We were trying to be helpful and give accurate, responsible advice.

Apology accepted.

Sara


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## ecftoggs (Oct 26, 2007)

Mark,
No we don't want to take the joy out of the experience for newbies, but we don't want to see them make mistakes either. Sometimes well meant advice has to be blunt so the point isn't lost. But it was never intended to be mean. Apology accepted.
Tim


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## DostThouHaveMilk (Oct 25, 2007)

Kaye White said:


> > It's used along with hand breeding dates for December/January/February due dates.
> 
> 
> giggling...you HAVE breeding dates and due dates...why *bump*?
> ...


 Spending over $400 to Biotrack the entire doe herd makes absolutely no economic sense. Especially when you consider the milk prices. Future's market had milk price below $.90 a gallon for February's milk. Sorry, for what little I get for kids, adding another $7.50 to the cost of upkeep just is not happening. 
It is the best tool to be positive a doe is bred and is something I always suggest to those wanting to know for sure.
I hand breed for July, August, and early September. I breed up to 25 does at most. Not even half of the herd. That 25 is the most does that we can fit into the milking barn for kidding during that weather. 20 is better. Come October, we pen breed for two months to be sure we catch everyone. This means there are later potential dates. As much as I love marking harnesses they wear down quickly when a buck has 20+ does in his harem...and I don't always catch all of their heats. For example, Snickers was maybe due in January. I did not see her bred at but had her with the buck when I thought she was in heat. A month and a half ago, she had mud on her sides and a damp tail. The buck was wearing a harness but there were no marks on her. I brought her to the barn and bumped her daily trying my best to find a fetus and a reason to keep her there instead of putting her back with the buck to be sure she was bred. I never found one and kicked her out two weeks prior to her supposed due date..which has since passed. I checked her after she returned to the goat pen to be sure as well. She was not due in January.
I utilize a management tool that works for me. I can check does before bringing them to the barn to see if they really merit being there or not. The fewer uneccesary bodies, the better for all involved.
A lot of it has to do with using bumping as a tool for the cows. We don't dry a cow off until we have bumped a calf. It costs too much to dry a cow off only to realize she slipped that pregnancy that was confirmed over half a pregnancy ago. Another 10-11 months before she produces milk again. When a few minutes taken to bump and see if there is indeed still a fetus in there will save you time and money. Sure, you could do a rectal palpation on her, but my cows don't tend to enjoy that type of preg checking.
I don't bump/bounce the same way most people do. The does don't seem to mind, except for a few of them. I don't bother them constantly with it. I use it to help in determing whether they come up or not (along with udder development and the sense I get about them), and I use it about a week before their due dates to try and get an idea if they will be dropping multiples or not.
At about a week to two weeks out, all one has to do in our herd is lay a hand on a side and you can feel babies rolling around in there in some of the does.
There are does that are deep that you simply can't find anything in.
A lot of them times when people think they are feeling and seeing fetal movement, theya re usually seeing the wonderful rumen functioning in early bred does. Two weeks out is about the earliest I can actually see fetal movement. In certain does.
There is a very distinct feel to a fetal body part though. 
Besides, being able to feel life in the does gives me a reason to face the winter.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

OK to answer first question in this post and put this dog to bed.
You can't always feel babies and if you do it will most likely be in the last month and probably the last week or two. If I can find the picture of fetal development you will see just how tiny those little guys are until just at the last. It is very hard to feel movement. During the stages of moving to get lined up for the birth canal you will sometimes see a foot pushing out. But for me that is rare. On the mini's and the dwarfs it is easier but as for the Nubians here I can hardly tell the are even pg let alone see movement.


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