# Milk amounts



## Island Creek Farm (Jun 16, 2010)

Using the MMS calculator, it gives a range of milk to use (in my last 4 lb batch, it said between 16-24 ounces)...what will the varying amounts of milk do? Will a batch using more milk take more time to cure?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Yes, fluid is fluid, the more fluid you use the longer it takes to cure. But....I do not think you should move milk with it's butterfat down into the 16 ounce range, the reason why is you want more fluid, not less when trying to use frozen milk and lye. I dissolve my lye in an equal amount of water, then add milk once I have started stick blending. This way I know my lye has actually been dissolved, soaping like this you can also move your amount to liquid to 16, and actually even less than that. It is super important when trying to melt lye into milk that you pour it through a strainger when dumping it into your butters and oils, if you see too much undissolved lye in it, you really need to use more milk.

As your business grows, if that is your goal, this was one of the first changes I had to do, no way could I sit and melt lye into volumes of milk, trying to control the final color of my soap, weighing out milk into something to later freeze it, it became a nitemare. Vicki


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## NPgoats (Mar 18, 2010)

I am also confused...a newbie at something always...

"I do not think you should move milk with it's butterfat down into the 16 ounce range, the reason why is you want more fluid, not less when trying to use frozen milk and lye."

I don't understand this sentence. :blush

Why do you use frozen ice cubes of milk instead of just cold milk?
Do you just weigh the cubes as you would liquid milk?
Is lye hard to disolve in milk?
I am so confused about the how much milk I *can* use *instead * of water. 
Does EO or FO count as part of your liquid in a recipe?
Sooooo much to learn.
Linda


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## Greylady (Mar 28, 2012)

Using frozen milk keeps the lye from burning the milk. I weigh the frozen out. To me it is not hard to melt the lye with milk. Lately, to save time, I have been using milk as liquid and added after my oils are mixed with the cooled lye/water mixture. So in otherwords I have been using 50% milk and 50% water in a new recipe I have tried out and like. I don't count my FO as part of the liquid.


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

Just as a point of reference. Most of my soaps are made with frozen milk cubes. I use the minimum amount of liquid called for, in this case my liquid is frozen milk cubes. As the lye is dissolving in the milk, I keep it stirred with a spatula and once there is a lot of liquid in the container, I use a stick blender on the milk/lye solution to help further dissolve the lye. Lye does not dissolve as well in frozen milk as it does in water or other frozen liquids, which melt much faster than milk. (examples would be frozen herb tea cubes, wine, beer, etc.)

When pouring the lye/milk solution into the pot of oils, I pour rather slowly with my stick blender going as the stream is coming down. I have had plenty of batches where the lye was not completely dissolved and this solves the problem for me. Using water to dissolve your lye, then adding milk at emulsion will also help solve the problem with the lye not dissolving. Sometimes I do this with my colored soaps. It is certainly easier to have the water/lye solution on hand for use and not have to fool with frozen milk cubes.


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## tmfinley (Feb 21, 2008)

"I do not think you should move milk with it's butterfat down into the 16 ounce range, the reason why is you want more fluid, not less when trying to use frozen milk and lye."
I don't understand this sentence

I think what Vicki is trying to say here is that when you use milk, you are also adding extra fats to the soap recipe because of milk's natural butterfat content. So if you were using 16 oz of water you would have actually 16 oz of liquid. If you were using 16 oz of milk and it had 5% butterfat, you would have around 15 oz of liquid and 1 oz fat. 

Why do you use frozen ice cubes of milk instead of just cold milk?
Most here use frozen milk instead of just cold to prevent the milk proteins from burning and turning dark orange. I used to but don't anymore. I use regular cold milk with no adverse effect to my soap or discoloration to the final product.

Do you just weigh the cubes as you would liquid milk?
Yes

Is lye hard to disolve in milk?
It is more difficult to dissolve in frozen milk it seems. I stick blend and then pour my lye solution through a strainer when I pour into my soap just to make sure even though I don't use frozen. 

I am so confused about the how much milk I can use instead of water. 
Basically think of water and milk as the same and any other liquid you might use, such as juice. When a soap calculator gives you a range it means you can safely use all amounts within that range. The higher the liquid amount the more wetter your recipe is and the longer it will have to cure to get the moisture out but you will have more time to work with it if you want to do swirls because it will generally take longer to trace. If you are working with unknown fragrance oils that might accelerate it is also helpful to have more liquid to give you more time before it starts to turn into soap on a stick. It is usually recommended that newbies start with a higher volume of liquid to start. The less liquid you use the less time you have to cure to get moisture out and the batch will trace faster. Now, thinking about your first question - just remember when you start lowering the volume of milk you are using that a certain percent of that milk is fat not all liquid. 

Does EO or FO count as part of your liquid in a recipe?
No, the eo and fo do not count as part of a liquid in a recipe. In my large batches I do have to account for them some though, just for volume in my molds. If I am adding 16 oz of eos to one batch and none to my unscented batch and use the same molds for each of the batches, the nonscented batch will not fill the entire mold because of the missing oils. I just add extra sunflower oil to cover the missing oils in nonscented batches.


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## NPgoats (Mar 18, 2010)

Thank you for explaining! I think I'm finally getting it!
Linda


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

If you look at the walmart recipe, I do not think that 28 ounces of frozen milk is enough fluid to dissolve 16 ounces of lye. I would not be using this discount, even though we soap at much steeper discounts at times. I think new folks should use the full sage.com water amount, in this case 42 ounces. With my normal day to day soaping I soap at twice more than my lye amounts, so 16 ounces of lye would get 32 ounces of liquid. And strain your liquid/lye while pouring it into your butters and oils, you can see for yourself that not everything is dissolved.

Go slow, you want to understand saponification, it isn't hard, but water discounts, make it harder, as does using scents that someone you trust hasn't used before. Vicki


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## Greylady (Mar 28, 2012)

All the replys above were great explaining!

Haven't seen this before; About using Sunflower Oil in place of Fo. It doesn't make the soap have extra oil? Does it saponify?



tmfinley said:


> Does EO or FO count as part of your liquid in a recipe?
> No, the eo and fo do not count as part of a liquid in a recipe. In my large batches I do have to account for them some though, just for volume in my molds. If I am adding 16 oz of eos to one batch and none to my unscented batch and use the same molds for each of the batches, the nonscented batch will not fill the entire mold because of the missing oils. I just add extra sunflower oil to cover the missing oils in nonscented batches.


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## tmfinley (Feb 21, 2008)

I probably shouldn't have put that in I guess it was confusing. That is just something I do to fill volume of the missing essential oil so my molds all fill to capacity. It is a small percentage of the total oils and doesn't really effect the superfat percentage. Sunflower oil is just one of the standard oils I use in my recipe. It does saponify.


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## Greylady (Mar 28, 2012)

Not confusing! Just needed to know where it would go! :biggrin


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## Island Creek Farm (Jun 16, 2010)

I did it with the full amount of milk (24 oz, frozen) and the calculator said 8.29 oz lye at 6% excess fat. Seemed to cure rather quickly, but if you see my other post, I got a layer on top...???

Never had an issue with lye not dissolving in frozen cubed milk, thankfully!!


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