# goats penned up?



## linbee (Jul 7, 2010)

Do you "put your goats up" at night in a barn or are they left to come & go as they wish. I thought I had a good routine of feeding them in their stalls in the morning, letting them out all day, and putting them back in stall at night. Since the days are so short, they spend a lot of time in the barn, which is making for a stinky mess! I'm wondering what most of you do.....


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## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

During the spring-fall, the goats are locked out of the barn 24/7 unless the weather is bad. During the winter, the goats can come and go as they please. I do no lock my goats up at night. I do not shut the barn doors at night either. The only time I shut the barn doors is if we are suppose to have alot of blowing snow.


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## lorit (May 10, 2010)

My barn has three entrances (two of which can't be closed). I leave all three open for fresh air. I DO lock my goats in their "night" pen which has a half wall on the side of one of the openings so they get fresh air but the draft is minimized. 

When I go out in morning, they are let out for the day. At 5-ish in the evening I turn on the barn lights and open that gate so they can come and go until 9-ish when I shut the gate and they are in for the night. My goats prefer outdoors except for the rain (lots of it here) but we are in the boonies with lots of wildlife and I just feel a bit "safer" with them in the barn. I know that technically anything can get in there and get them, but that's how I do it. 

Since they are only in that pen at night, it doesn't seem to get too dirty too quickly. And an advantage with turning the lights on, the milk production is edging up and stabilizing.


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## skeeter (Aug 11, 2010)

My boys and girls are allowed to come and go as they please. I have 5 packgoats, 6 does, and 2 bucks. We have 2 areas with a hoop barn for rain protection and one barn stall for milking does that they only use during milking time. They do prefer to be out and we don't close them in at any time. BUT we have a Fila Brasileiro, from excellent working lines. I don't think anything will be getting into our pasture soon. :lol


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

No locking goats up here, except when they are kidding. It seems to create a nasty, ammonia laden barn condition and unless I was to be constantly cleaning, they would be wet from lying in their own urine and fecal matter so much. Deep bedding over a well-drained clay floor isn't so bad, but I can't be trusted to keep the indoor barn area clean enough, for 12-14 hours of constant use per day  Now, if we had predators, that would be a different scenario. We have electric fencing and an LGD. So far, we've suffered no loses. 

I think predation is really the only reason to ever lock them indoors at night in any but the most extreme weather. Good shelter of course should always be available, and will probably be used quite a bit in the winter, but closed doors create problems with odors, bacteria, and fighting among the girls. 

The exception here are new born kids, who are kept indoors, completely out of drafts, at least for the first few days if the weather is cold. Last year we used a shed with a wooden floor and then a garage with concrete floor instead of the barn with a dirt floor we normally used and I could NOT keep the pen dry enough, plus the areas were too small, but we were in the middle of moving and the barn was too cold when we had the Jan. kids, so we had to make do, but it was not good for the babies and won't be repeated.


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## Goat Town (Nov 20, 2010)

I prefer to use a "loose housing" management method. My goats have two three sided sheds they can use for weather protection. Each shed can be closed off if I need to pen any or all of them down. I do not pen them down at night. I have found that their bedding stays cleaner and there's fewer instances of fighting.

Babies are separated from their dams at birth and housed in a small building that can be completed closed. It does have it's own pen so that when the babies get big enough and the weather is nice enough, they too can have an exercise yard and come and go as they please.

Since I don't house animals in the barn I close it up in the winter, when we have storms, or high winds. When it's open I have "goat guards" across the entrances to keep goats, chickens, and dogs out of the barn. There is also a guard acrodss the hen house door. These are made cattle panels. On the walk entrances the are cut to fit the door side, one side nailed to the door frame with fencing staples to create a hinge and the other side held closed with a double sided snap. The guard for the big sliding door is not hinged. It is made to be raised or lowered by ropes like a portcullis on a medival castle. However once it's in place it has to be fastened to the door frame or the goats will push on it and break into the barn.


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

None of my goat houses have doors. The goats can come and go as they please. Some actually choose to sleep outdoors in our Montana winters so long as it's not snowing or real windy. I have one smaller goat house that can be blocked off with part of a cattle panel if needed. The only time I have done this is with a couple does who had C sections. With newborn kids, if the weather is especially cold and nasty, the babies are brought to the house and stay inside for the first week or so. This is why I'm now questioning my sanity about breeding for February kids. There is the possibility I will have five litters of goatlings in my kitchen and living room and one very unhappy husband.


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## nuzmom (Sep 17, 2010)

What a great thread. I have been wondering the exact same thing.
I only have 2 does and they are closed in the barn at night. Their pasture has an electric fence (movable) and I don't trust it to keep coyotes away at night. I haven't quite figured out when to keep them in during the day and when to leave the door open. The eves of the barn are open and it has multiple barn doors (all quite leaky), so ventilation isn't an issue. My concern is that when their stall door is open, it seems to be quite breezy in there.
It's been below freezing all month (we live in western PA) and I worry about the windchill. Yesterday the temperature was around 20 most of the day and very windy - I left them closed in the barn. Today, it's around 20, but not quite so windy, so I opened the doors.
I do a thorough picking of the straw in the stall every day and add replacement straw about every other day. I scoop out any wet pine shavings during this time, too. (it's below the straw and does a good job of collecting the urine). We do a complete cleanout/replacement about once per month.
I have to say, the cleaning is a chore and cost I'd rather minimize or eliminate. But, I am just not clear if some days are "too" breezy for them and, due to predators, night time "lock down" is a must.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

We 'shut up' at night but only into a pipe corral with dog wire attached that has overhanging roof. This because of devastating predator attack even with dogs roaming. The herd refuses to sleep outside in the cool green grass even in dead of summer because of this. They want 'inside' which really isn't in that much but out of wind and rain. Roofed overhang is is 20 feet and the back wall inside is a hay wall. We hang tarps on the sides in winter but roll them up for summer and with a 16 foot peak it is airy and does not ever accumulate odors. With bedding hay they are plenty cozy but kidding stalls are farther inside the actual barn but still only 3 sided and the kids have light boxes to sleep in and find them within a few hours of birth. We have found they adapt and grow coats accordingly and this way there is always fresh air. Dimensions are hard to imagine in photos but the pipe is 6 feet tall- barn is 80 feet long- overhang 20 feet and corrals extend 20 feet beyond overhang. Overhang faces east for morning sun and protection from west and northwest which is where all our wet and cold weather comes from. So here YES they are locked in the pipe enclosure with their dog- but not closed up in a building.
Lee

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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Inside and out of the corral enclosure.

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## petey (May 1, 2010)

What a lovely place you have!


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## linbee (Jul 7, 2010)

This is very interesting to me - thank you all. Lee, I want to come live with your goats - what a gorgeous place!

Kathie, I think you can assure Marianne that the cold is not a problem, which amazes me, but I guess they get used to where they are. I am looking forward to pictures of your February kids - 5 litters - WOW! But how exciting.

I think I am going to change my routine up a little and leave them outside longer with the lights on like Lori does. I know, too, that anything could get to them if they really wanted to, but I just feel better with closed doors (for now). If I have to clean much more ammonia laden dirt, I may change my mind.


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## NPgoats (Mar 18, 2010)

I lock mine up at night into stalls. I am still working on our set up here. I am using shed rows at the moment. The girls are out all day with the LGD and put up at night while the dog runs the pasture and patrols the barn. I also use pine shavings in the stalls. Yes, I have to clean them out every few weeks.

Lee, nice garden and love your set up. Mine will look like yours when I get it finished.

Linda


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## Dana (Dec 7, 2009)

My girls have indoor and outdoor access at all times. I have been locking up my younger does at night just as an extra measure. If the weather is terribly cold and windy I can shut all the doors so nobody goes out (or predators can't get in). I haven't had a problem with stray dogs or coyotes yet, but I think since our barn is close to our house and our 3 dogs prowl around the property, there is little chance of an attack.

Most my goats stay in the barn during the winter even though they can go out. Only my half polar bear-half Nigerian dwarf likes to be outside 99% of the time. :biggrin


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Oh thanks! Keep in mind we have lived here since 1976 and I did not show you all the eyesores :blush2
My husband throws nothing away- the minute he does - he thinks of a use for it. :biggrin


That is the north slope garden great for summer when the sun is over that way-we work the south slope on the other side of the barn for fall and winter while the north slope has a very short day so mostly dormant. Veggies year round here! We had broc and spinach and green onions for some of our holiday meals! Don was tilling for my new strawberry expansion today- ahhhhh winter in the south- gotta love it (cuz we hate summer)!

Kathie have you thought of light boxes if it gets to be too many in the house? We do 3 sided plywood boxes with a round hole in the top. Screw a chicken brooder on to the top and put a heat lamp in it. Cozy and very safe too. I don't envy you going out in your weather several times a day to feed so maybe the house is a better idea! Keep the peace-smooch a goat!


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

Lee, you have a lovely place. My main goat house is a small log building. We don't have electricity in the goat houses for heat lamps and really don't have the setup here. The only place it would be feasible would be in the garage where I milk the girls. I have brought a few does in there to kid in real inclement weather so I have light and space away from the other goats. I recently bought one of those milk house heaters for temporary use while I'm in there, but the garage is not insulated so it wouldn't pay to keep the heater running all the time. My husband has told me no heat lamps in the garage because of the fire danger. My friend has a couple of the boxes you refer to. She used them in her greenhouse until it blew down in a wind storm. Thankfully, there were no goats in it when that happned. It works best for me to have the kids in the house when it's real nasty outside. I already have to run out alot when the goats are due to check for kids. No electricity in the goat houses also means no webcams or baby monitors. I get lots of excercise and little sleep during kidding time.


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## littleman (Sep 10, 2008)

my girls have free choose here too. They can go into the shed or stay out with the miniature donkey, which they like to do more. We have woven fencing here so predictors can't get in.


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## Dana (Dec 7, 2009)

We have woven wire also.


> We have woven fencing here so predictors can't get in.


 But I've been told coyotes will jump it. Alas, you have a mini donkey, and that might help the situation, tho I'm not sure a mini will be able to fight off a pack of dogs?

Our neighbor up the road has a huge sheep farm and had hunters come and kill 85 coyotes last year. I was shocked at how many there are in my area. Then my other neighbor with a petting zoo said he sees coyote everyday!

I'm starting to keep my younger girls shut in at night because of this.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

We have 4 pens and a small field. All the pens have houses with the main entries facing east. There are no doors on three of them. The does have access to their pen and the small field. The bucks do not get to come out of their pens very often. I clean the buck pens once a month, thier houses get done once a month except in winter. I allow the straw to build up in their houses for insulation. The doe house is cleaned out weekly, except in winter and is cleaned out monthly then. We have enough pens now for the norm, kidding and sick goats. You can use wood pellets or wood chips under straw to help with absorption. It smells much better too
One thing I stopped doing, feeding in the shelters. Food gets knocked all over and falls in the spent hay and straw. I have a semi-humid climate and fear listeriosis. S I just don't feed in the shelters if I can help it. Example: I thought putting a hay feeder on the dividing fence of feild and shelter was a nice dry place. Problem--hay falls in to the shelter side, compresses, becomes wasted with pee and poo and whalah! an instant recipe for molds and mildews. It does that in their yards too but that gets picked up often, houses are once a week/once a month, not often enough for me.
Tam


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Except the buck pen, all the stalls in the dairy can be closed, they are only closed during hurricanes, for infant kids or when I need the girls trapped somewhere. You never find my girls sleeping anywhere but the barn, unlike when we had boers who rarely used their barn.

Fencing isn't really going to deter predators, especially when you are talking about true wildlife....also dogs in packs. The only thing you can do about predators is to make your farm a much less attractive place to visit, they have long stalked your property for access and meals...by having dogs, llamas, donkeys, fences, lights, noise, this is what keeps predators away. Making your neighbors animals a much more appealing snack. Once predators have decided that your place is worth the risk for a meal, only then would a completely enclosed stall with a cement floor help, or bigger dogs and enough to take on the predator.

Unless you have a cement floor, completely enclosed walls and doors, your actually making your animals less safe, from predators but also fires, trapping them into a barn they can not escape from.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

> Fencing isn't really going to deter predators, especially when you are talking about true wildlife....also dogs in packs.


 :yeahthat 
Absolutely. We have 42 inch hog wire field fencing and 2 strands of barb at the top and it really is not the deterrent our dogs are. It does keep the goats in. Our pipe corral at 6 feet with no climb dog wire on it was not enough to keep a predator from our does. We got a hair sample from a trap and it was cat hair but since we do not have native self sustaining cougar populations in Arkansas :really it was some seriously large bobcat. Killed 8 goats and wounded almost all the rest including flank bites and claw rakes down the sides. So don't count on fencing.


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

I have a 1 acre farm in a residential area. I am surrounded by people who insist on letting their kids and dogs run loose. My goats have an outside pen they are in only when I am home or am only going to be gone a short time. The rest of the time they have to be in their barn, which is a converted 1 car garage. I have 4 stalls, 2 large and 2 small, that they are split up between. They share this building with 4 Malamutes. 

During the winter when we have a lot of snow (like yesterday) they have to stay inside too, as the pen is in a drift zone and I would lose the goats under the snow! They are perfectly happy to be inside, and actually prefer to be in their stalls!

Yes, they do make a mess. I clean the stalls frequently and keep the door open during the day unless the wind is whipping and bitterly cold. The barn is closed up at night in the winter once the temp gets below 20, but open in the warmer months. I have a fan set up to suck the air out of the barn to cut down on ammonia fumes and dust.

I am hoping that within the next 2 years I can rebuild the horses run in shed in another area and fix the current one up for the goats. They would be protected on all 4 sides by horses or dogs and would be able to be inside or outside, which ever their little hearts desire. That area would be ideal because there is a sort of "courtyard" area between the horse shed and the goat barn where the goats could hang out and eat and they could go inside the shed or the goat barn if I make their window a door. I could also lock them in their stalls in the barn if I needed to for kidding, bad weather or treatment.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

> I get lots of exercise and little sleep during kidding time


Well it certainly pays off- you have beautiful animals!
I did not think about no elec at the barn...silly of me- ours is also a workshop so I forget about real barns!

L


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## NPgoats (Mar 18, 2010)

Kathy, have you thought of putting up some solar lights for your barn? I admire your dedication and determination. I don't know how some of you do it in the freezing cold weather. I'm a wimp in the cold! When it gets below 50 I start freezing. :blush That's why I live in the south! Linda


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## linbee (Jul 7, 2010)

I'm with you, Linda - I can't stand the cold. I am so impressed with the people that haul water, shovel snow, break through ice floes to get where they are going, etc. I wouldn't, couldn't, won't do it! I can take our 100+ heat & humidity much better than cold.


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## jdranch (Jan 31, 2010)

As far as the shelters, what is the size of the shelter and your # of goats?


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## lorit (May 10, 2010)

The night pen is 12 x 15 with three does. The kidding pen is 8 x 8. They have a winter pasture of ~2 acres and a summer pasture of ~5 acres. Days they have a 3 sided covered area of 8 x 12 to get into when raining that opens to the pasture. That is going to be extended (roof only) this summer with another 8' to be a total of 12 x 16. 

Rain is my biggest "enemy" here. Temps are moderate and browse is great - it is just getting them out - though I have noticed this winter that they are being less "wimpy" and going out more. Last year they hated even a single drop and tried to spend all day in the barn.


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## adillenal (Feb 6, 2009)

I only have loafing sheds so noone gets closed in anywhere. Have cattle panel fences and a LGD and have never had a problem with predators. Yet. Keep a loaded rifle by the backdoor but have never had to use it.Yet.

I feed in a 20x20 metal carport with their feeder built across the middle, the other side is where I have my milkstand. Keep the feed in a metal buidling that is attached. Our weather is such that the goats do not need a totally enclosed building. Love our climate. For some reason they know the carport is for eating and they never bed down there.


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## rebeccasminis (Aug 24, 2010)

The girls here have a lot of snow and wind to contend with, I attempt to get everyone out to exercise daily but they dont cooperate much. We get a lot of lake effect snow so until the lakes freeze we get a lot of snow and wind. I lock everyone up here at night, goats, calf, horse, everyone because we have coyotes, lots of them and they arent afraid of anyone, humans included. I am working on that :twisted with the rifle and traps. I am currently using half of my husbands very expensive garage to house the girls and the bucks are in the older barn. Although the garage where the girls are is insulated and finished off with nice plywood and concrete floors I leave the big sliding door open most of the time until I tuck everyone in at night. My new barn will have stalls, doors and loafing area but they will still be locked up at night due to coyotes...and they try telling us up here there are no Mountain Lions, but I am here to tell you they are here and they wont make no bones about having a goat dinner.


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## petey (May 1, 2010)

My girls are in the barn for now, as the temps are so low, and they are just too pregnant to be locked in the pen with the sheep and calves. WE used to have coyotes coming right into the back yard after my goats and chickens. A cougar attacked a cowdog right in our front yard. We got two Maremma pups last spring and haven't seen a predator since. Best decision we ever made!


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## JamieH (Nov 29, 2010)

This thread scares me! Especially since I saw three stray dogs at my boarding stable yesterday. My 2 girls will have a 24x12 stall with a run the same size. The stall has dirt floors, three solid wood walls and one pipe fencing wall. The run is three board fencing. I'm going to add wire to all the fences until they are as fortress-like as possible, but getting a dog for them is not really possible at the moment. Should I get a mini donkey for just two does? Isn't there a possibility that the donkey could hurt the goats? I know of some horses that have been known to kill goats. I've got a great price on the goat boarding, but I wonder how much more it will be to board the donkey =/


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I had no problems introducing two standard jenny's to the herd, but female was key, you don't want a gelding or a jack for sure. I was raised in CA on a horse farm, and all the farms had goats in the pen with stallions etc...and yep they were at times disposable pets...I think it is much more about the sex of the equine than the equine itself. Our donkeys hated dogs, they didn't bond with the goats like LGD do, but they patrolled their territory. I cringe for you having to board your goats. Certainly it is the place you are boarding's responsiblity for predator control? I have boarded alot of goats, and although I don't take responsiblity for death due to predator or accident, living right next to my stock it's sort of a given mine wouldn't be alive if we had predators. Do you board your horse their also?


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## JamieH (Nov 29, 2010)

Yes, I board my horse at the same place. It isn't really a boarding stable. It is 15 acres in a suburban area. The owners live on the property, and I'm pretty much the only boarder. There is another girl, but she is never there. The stable owners have three horses, two cows and several cats. They also have two pigs that have never been bothered, but goats are easier targets I'd imagine. I worry about getting a standard donkey, because the goat pen isn't really a pasture or paddock, it is a run with a stall. I'll be giving them pasture time, but only when I'm there. I'm sure a mini donkey would fit, but they aren't really guardians. If I did get a dog to stay in with them, I would worry about it biting someone at the barn. In the future, when the goats have babies, I'll be keeping the kids at my house until they are being fed 2 times a day. As for my doelings coming this spring. I might have to just rely on really strong fencing for now.


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## littleman (Sep 10, 2008)

I have two miniature jennies, they like to be togather, but sister has just one miniature jenny and she hates dogs and won't even let my sisters **** dog in the pen when the kids go take care of the goats.


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