# Doe losing weight



## windstorm (Mar 1, 2009)

Okay, need lots of input.We are milking a doe who is also raising her own kids(2).She was wormed the day she kidded 2 weeks ago today.We were told to feed 1lb. of grain which is oats, barley,sunflower seeds,milo and 1 and a half lbs. of alfalfa pellets and all the hay she can eat. The wormer was Quest.She seems to be losing weight. Do we need to change to a different feed or more of what we are giving her now. Also the butterfat is not much at all. Is there something we can feed that will make more butterfat.About how much butterfat should you be getting on a quart of milk from a Nubian.We are first time milkers , need all help we can get. Deb


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

Hay and browse will raise the fat, however usually a very fresh doe will have a lower milk fat. Nature made it that way so the kid will get more protein and grow in height and all early on. Then, as the doe's milk starts to dry up, the fat will increase to put extra weight on the kid just before weaning.

When I used to DHIA test my herd, my Nubians started fresh at 3% fat, peak was around 5% and by the time they were ready to dry off, they were around 6-7%. But each doe is different. You can have Saanans or Alpines with a high fat and Nubians with low. Its mostly genetics, but can be helped to an extent by feed. As a rule of thumb....grain helps production and hay (browse) helps milk fat.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Well for starters Goats most all of them lose weight when in milk and you won't get fat or condition back on her now much at all until the dry period. That is when you want to get them in good condition for the next freshening.
However check your protein content of all your grains they should get at least 16% [protein 
then up her alfalfa to at least 3lbs per goat per day. and not mixed in with your grain just out free choice. 
As for the butterfat are you doing testing or just looking at the cream that appears at the top of a jar? You won't see much cream at all separating with goats like you do with a cow. 
have you done a fecal test now to know that the wormer is working?


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2009)

The relationship on fat and milk is mirror image of each other. As milk production goes up the fat level goes down, as milk decreases then fat levels go up. Its the same in all mammals.

Also, you want your animals in good body condition BEFORE dry off. The 60 day dry peroid is NOT the time to try to put weight back on an animal. As the extra Mcals they are taking in is suppose to use for the growth of the offspring.

Ken


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

But Ken is it not true that it is much harder to put condition on when they are lactating than it is when they are dry? This is why I said what I did.


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2009)

Mine usually start getting back there body condition after they have been milking 7 to 9 months. This is after they peak and they seem to be able to gain after this. When I dry them off at 10 months I have to quit the grain. So I want them in good shape before I quit the grain. They still get all they can eat alfalfa after dryoff. But no grain until a couple of weeks before they kid.


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

> But Ken is it not true that it is much harder to put condition on when they are lactating than it is when they are dry?


Not Ken...but, during the later part of lactation it's easy to put weight on, unlike during the 1st stages of lactation. In reality...or a commercial dairy setting...a cow/goat should really only get a 60 day dry period. Not like a lot that give them up to 3-4 months dry. A doe/cow that's not milking isn't making money.Extended dry periods are costly.
But, I'll step back and let Ken explain his own statement.
Kaye


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Oh I understand that Kaye Thanks I milk 305 days so just always thought it was very hard to get weight back on a doe that wasn't in the best condition prior to freshening, in other words what I am trying to say is that right now on this doe it is going to be hard to put much weight on her. Though condition is another story, and we have to feed according to always keeping good condition.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Thanks, Tim think that was what I was trying to say  but didn't come across as such.


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2009)

I think most people tend to forget the steps that weight is put on the body of any mammal. First the maintance of the mammal has to be met. If they are not met then it can go no further. Then come reproduction...not they are preg-o. But, are they able to cycle? Look at long distance runners...most women who run have a hard time getting preg-o. Since, all the calories they are taking is being burned with the running. After, the repro side of it then comes, carring the little one. That is why, with angora goats the kidding percent is so low. They have been bred for years NEVER MESS with the hair production. Angora's will slip the kid at anytime to save the mohair. After they kidded then comes milk production to feed the offspring. That is why in the spring if you drive down the road and look at beefers they look like crap. Because they are not getting enough calories to keep up everything, next thing you know the calves are losing weight and death loss raises.

SO, back to the question at hand. Its VERY easy to put weight on an animal in stage 1,2,and 3 of lacation. Since, milk production is at the end of the chain. If you would look at dairy cattle at the shows you will see this more so than goats. Since, dairy cattle you want to be in the range of 3 to 3.5 BCS at all times. At times if they was a heavy milker some will push that up to 4. To store the fat for lacation. Then look at what they are being fed. Most dairies anymore have a 3 group feeding system. Fresh cows/goats, Mid lacations, and late lacations. The protien level will go down the later in lacation they are with the carbs being raised in a mirror image. With the most other stuff staying about the same. 

So, if you have a animal coming into milk that is in poor shape, why are you trying to treat her like a fresh animal. When at that times she really is mid to late lacation. Since, she will not peak at high levels of milk. Most people have it in their heads that since, she is just fresh you should feed them like fresh animals. When really you need to look at her and go...what stage of lacation is she in at this moment. 

Ken


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## windstorm (Mar 1, 2009)

Thank all of you for your help, we will up the alfalfa. Thanks again, Debbie


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## Corky (Oct 26, 2007)

I have one that is getting double the grain of everyone else and all the alfalfa pellets she wants pluse browse but her back bone is sticking up three inches and I am afraid for anyone to see her that does not understand waht very dairy means.
She is at 25 days into lactation and nursing two big strappin doelings and is giving a gallon of milk in the morning.
Not per day but just the morning milking.
That is where all that grain is going. In the bucket.
Wormed right after kidding and ten days later.
I am not worried about her. She does this every year.
She is sold to someone that can use all that milk.
She is part togg and I want that bloodline gone.
They will think I have been starving her.


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

I haf one FF Nubian yearling last year who was thinner than I liked. She was raising twin bucklings. I started top dressing her grain with calf manna. I also pulled her bucklings and sold them for meat a 8 weeks old. Between the calf manna and only being milked twice a day, she got back to a decent weight and still is looking OK with this year's freshening. Kathie


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