# Alfalfa Pellets vs Alfalfa Hay



## Sydney

Our goats waste so much alfalfa hay. SO MUCH. Wondering if I can switch over to free choice alfalfa pellets, and give them a little grass hay at night or when there is no browse. 

Has anyone on here done this before? Did you like the results? My only concern is that they won't like the alfalfa pellets, and it would be hard for kids to eat.


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## PrairieTrail45

I feed mine alfalfa pellets. They do good on them, but I don't think they get quite as full from the pellets as they do the hay since it is all compressed and there isn't any long stems for them to eat. Kids do have a harder time starting on it, but I usually have some hay around to start them on. All of mine like the pellets, I have a few that are slower eaters, but they all eat them.

Another option might be Chaffehay, a lot of people are having really good results with that. I know a gal that has some very heavy milking Saanens and she feeds chaffehay. Her goats look great too.


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## Sydney

PrairieTrail45 said:


> I feed mine alfalfa pellets. They do good on them, but I don't think they get quite as full from the pellets as they do the hay since it is all compressed and there isn't any long stems for them to eat. Kids do have a harder time starting on it, but I usually have some hay around to start them on. All of mine like the pellets, I have a few that are slower eaters, but they all eat them.
> 
> Another option might be Chaffehay, a lot of people are having really good results with that. I know a gal that has some very heavy milking Saanens and she feeds chaffehay. Her goats look great too.


I have heard chaffehay is expensive, I'm going for cost effective at this time. 
I will leave out a little bit of hay for them, probably grass hay, at night.

Good to know about the kids having a little trouble with the pellets. I'm planning on making a creep feeder next year, so I will put hay in that for them. We bought a 50 lb bag of alfalfa pellets and a few feeders to hang up, so I will let you know what they think of the pellets.


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## doublebowgoats

I have given alfalfa pellets free choice with some kind of other roughage like browse or grass hay for years. Lately, since finding a very nice grass hay, I have limited the alfalfa pellets somewhat by measuring out 2-3 lbs per goat and putting it all in a large tub. The dominate ones get their fill then wander off allowing the others to eat.
My goats are healthy and productive, no metabolic problems.


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## Sydney

So far they like the pellets. I'm not giving them their grain, and I didn't give them any hay today (they can browse) so they would be hungry to not think twice about eating the pellets! I'm really hoping that they will continue eating the pellets, it'll be so nice to not have to clean all that wasted money (hay) up.


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## Sydney

doublebowgoats said:


> I have given alfalfa pellets free choice with some kind of other roughage like browse or grass hay for years. Lately, since finding a very nice grass hay, I have limited the alfalfa pellets somewhat by measuring out 2-3 lbs per goat and putting it all in a large tub. The dominate ones get their fill then wander off allowing the others to eat.
> My goats are healthy and productive, no metabolic problems.


That's great to hear.


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## MF-Alpines

Someone on here from Colorado, maybe named May-LOC? feeds only alfalfa pellets for their "hay" and has reported no problems. Perhaps do a search on "alfalfa pellets" using MayLOC (I think that is the name) in your search.


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## fmg

Lots of folks on here are in the south and can't get good hay feed alfalfa pellets. I would still feed some kind of roughage with it. Chaffhaye is great stuff, and I use it kind of as a probiotic type product, because it is pretty spendy. I figure it might help them digest their other foodstuffs as well. Depending on your pellets, the kids might be fine with them. My kids will even eat the large Standlee alfalfa pellets, if I mix them into their grain.


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## Secondairy

I use a large dual hopper hog feeder and fill it with 4 bags of Standlee Alfalfa pellets. It keeps the pellets clean and fresh, and the goats learn quickly to life the lids with their noses to get the good stuff! My new herd has never eaten pellets, but have quickly learned to do so, and that they are delicious. I keep the feeder full at all times. Above the feeder I have a hay rack with grass hay in it for their 'browse'. When the new herd came at first, we were going through a LOT of grass hay, and I was having a hard time getting them to convert to the pellets. Now that they are eating the pellets well, I am going though about a 35lb bale every 10 days of orchard grass hay for 5 LARGE adults, and about 200lbs of pellets every 2 weeks. When they first came, I was going through 3 bales of hay per week, and it took them nearly a month to eat the 200lbs of pellets. I keep both out free choice, for them to eat what they want, when they want it. I do note that the pellets encourages them to drink more water, which is never a bad thing


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## doublebowgoats

Kelly, what kind of feeder do you use? I built a wood hopper/feeder for alfalfa pellets but it has succumbed to the elements. I would love to have a metal or heavy rubber/plastic one.


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## lorit

IF you have any other critters that eat hay - horses, cattle, etc. - feed them the scraps that the goats waste. In order to do this effectively you do have to clean up below feeders at least once a day so it doesn't get soiled. I find that by cleaning up every morning and throwing that to the steers, that very little goes to waste and the steers love it. That converts to less feed I actually buy for them.  I use a lightweight plastic rake that picks up the hay without digging into the bedding. hth


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## Secondairy

http://www.farmerboyag.com/images/10010028_f.jpg

This is the 'pellet' feeder that I use. It is similar in style to a rabbit feeder, and can be used outside once they learn how to flip up the door flaps with their noses. It *IS* noisy, because when they are done munching, they just let the doors slam off the frame. At the same time, when you don't hear it, it might be a good time to look and see whats going on and why no one is interested in eating at the moment... as well as when you hear it non stop it is probably empty, and they are waiting for a miraculous event of the pellets just refilling themselves 

I have used this as a fence line feeder also, just cutting a notch out of cattle panels and slipping the part with the feed doors through, and keeping the hopper on the outside of the fence, using two thick heavy black bungee straps to snug it to the fence from the outside. This makes filling much easier than chasing goats away when you are trying to load the thing. I never had an issue with the pellets getting wet, and never had a poo in it after they learned to use the doors.

Training them:
http://www.southernstates.com/catalog/images/Product/large/10024190.jpg
I train them by using a rubber strap (instead of the clear shipping plastic they used in the above puc - but the position is correct) to hold the doors up against the front and keep it inside so they can just eat whenever they want to, and they learn that the big metal thing has food in it. Once you are certain they all know to eat from it, you can take the rubber strap off, and goats being goats - will get both nosey and hungry at the same time and push around it with their nose because they can still smell the pellets just under the doors. The first few hours the slamming does startle them, but after a while, when one is eating and that door slams, the others will come running to eat too. And you now how goats are...if they think they are 'getting away' with something, they become obsessed with it 

Kelly


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## Sydney

Wow, thanks for the advice, Kelly. I do have a question though, they seem to be going through a lot of the pellets. I am now wondering if the pellets will be more cost effective than the hay.. 50 lbs of pellets are $15, and a bale of alfalfa hay (not sure what they weigh, maybe 100 lbs?) is $9. But they do waste a lot of it. Probably half, maybe more? It's hard to tell. So, I guess it costs about the same?

I am wondering if when we get grass hay, can we limit the amount of alfalfa pellets they get? Like 2 lbs per full size mini?


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## Laverne

That's pretty cheap for alfalfa. Good alfalfa is grown in your region. If it's 3rd cutting it should or could be pretty fine stemmed and leafy and probably better than half the bale would be usable. If I could get 3rd cutting for that price I'd go with that and at least have some bedding and then some nice mulch for the garden with the waste. Alfalfa can differ tremendously in quality. Maybe you could shop around and look at the different cuttings and leafiness of the bales. You could also call around and ask for dairy quality alfalfa, now that can be really nice and about 4th cutting. It may cost more but they may eat a lot more of it also.


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## Sydney

Unfortunately, my parents only buy from one person. The hay is ok, not the best. Pretty stemmy.


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## Secondairy

The pellets are expensive, I'll agree to that. However, they eat all of it and there is no waste. I had tried Alfalfa hay in the past, and in my area, I cannot get a consistent supply of good alfalfa. It is always stemmy, and prone to leaf shatter. I pretty much end up with a bale of sticks and maybe 5lbs of leaves. The alfalfa price here varies from $9 for very low end brownish alfalfa, to $14 for nice looking good smelling bundles of sticks with the leaf shake. Of course they LOVE the leaves, but refuse to eat the stems. Feeding pellets, I can get the whole product into the goat, and there is zero waste. I hate wasting money, and seeing all of that expensive alfalfa on the floor being peed and pooped on was irritating to say the least! I don't mind when ALL of it goes in one end and comes out the other as poop though  The feeder also keeps rodents out of the goats food, which I feel is very important, as parasites and diseases can be carried and spread by them.

I am working with an older herd. The buck is 7, the two young does are 4, and the geriatrics are 11 and 13. This may be the last breeding season for the oldest one, so I try and offer the best possible nutrition to keep her cycling, maintaining her pregnancy, and to avoid problems at kidding time, same with the 11yr old. They have been eating my customized whole grain feed that their original breeder has been feeding for the last 20 years, but I have tweaked it a little since I have less naturally occurring copper in my soil. I swapped out the standard 2:1 dairy mineral for Cargill Right Now Onyx, which is also a 2:1, but has more and better sources of minerals. I have also added kelp. They have never had a free choice mineral feeder, and I am doing the 4 parts mineral, 1 part kelp, 1 part yeast, and they are really devouring it. I filled the feeder to the top when I picked up the feed order last Thursday and they have eaten 6" worth of minerals out of the standard 4" PVC mineral feeder tube. I am sure a copper bolus might help some, but I am just not comfortable to do it til I have seen it done and can get it right. This is late in the season, but two of them (the geriatrics) have slightly rough hair coats, and all of them have varying degrees of sun burned looking curled fried hair tips on their flanks and skirts.

Call me silly, I just want the best for my little herd


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## Sydney

Yes you are right. Every once in a while there are some nice bales full of leaves that don't fall apart but other than that not so much. I have been feeding six quarts of the pellets to 1 young pymgy/nigerian wether, 3 nigerian does, 1 pygmy doe, and one young Boer doe. They eat them all in 24 hours. Is that enough? Too much? They seem to all have nice full, firm bellies. I will be getting back one Nigerian doe, and another Boer doe from the breeder, so I will be feeding more. Actually, I will be moving two of the Nigerian does back in with the bucks because they are pretty aggressive with the does (they can't get bred) so I might only end up feeding a little more. I don't know.. Lol.


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## doublebowgoats

That sounds right to me. Towards the end of pregnancy or during lactation they might need more. The wethers can probably get by with much less. You really just need to be always observing how much they are eating, their body condition, dominant and weaker animals. This is where the art of raising goats comes in.  Spending time every day just hanging out watching the goats is fun, but it is also very beneficial. You can catch problems before they become serious.


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## Sydney

A couple of them are fat, and a couple are thin. The thin ones are getting grain.


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## texgran

Yes, I feed alfalfa pellets and sudan hay. My feed store started carrying a larger pellet this year. It is almost as large as a creep pellet. I kept my kids on the smaller pellet until they chose to eat the larger one. 
Every once in a while for some reason I think maybe they wouldn't waste alfalfa hay. So, I buy a bale and quickly remember why I feed pellets. NO WASTE.
My goats look great and milk great.


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## fmg

Kelly, where do you get those pellet feeders? They are awesome, and I would love to use them for minerals, since the goats can't poop in them! Were they expensive? I went to the website that was on the picture, and emailed the company, but haven't heard back yet.


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## Laverne

I feed my pet goats and buck just Eastern Oregon orchard grass hay and they stay fat and I have no waste. There's nothing to pick out, it's all good. I do give them a cup of alfalfa pellets each a couple times a week as a treat only, they would be fine without it. If your hay dealer has some good quality orchard grass that may be an alternative for some of the goats. Then the producers can have pellets and hay, mainly, a couple months before kidding and then when lactating. Plus grain mostly when lactating.

Too much alfalfa for bucks and wethers if it's not balanced just right with grain can cause urinary calculi. So I just stick with the grass hay and have had no problems as outlined in this article. http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/f28/ur...inary-calculi-bladder-stones-sue-reith-16486/


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## Secondairy

I bought both of my feeders at Tractor Supply. They were one of the few things that I kept after I sold the herd out in 2009. I am glad I kept the big one  They are sold as "Hog Feeders", so that might help your search query better. The big double feeders are kind of expensive, plan on spending $169 or so. I cant remember the price of the single sized ones. I think something like $89 maybe? I tried using them for minerals, but it doesn't work as well as the classic PVC mineral feeder, plus if there is any humidity at all where you are, you will get a problem with clumping, caking, and trust me, it is a REAL NIGHTMARE to clean out if this does happen! The goats are also not as willing to lift the door for minerals as they are grains or pellets.

I am using the PVC feeders for minerals and bicarb, made two of them, and bought the materials all new - ran about $105 total, so things sure have gone up in price the last 5 years or so! I have not yet had a problem with poop in the feeders, but I also have them pretty high up. Might not be suitable for young goatlings that cannot reach, and in that case, I might make some smaller ones to mount under my feed tray when I eventually have young stock next spring.

I got really lazy (had an injury) one year and used the feeders as a GRAIN feeder . I mixed my grain with alfalfa pellets and 'dirty' oats out of the gravity wagon that still had a bunch of hulls and other plant matter stuck to them (timothy heads, oat stems and whatnot). With my animals being very well fed in general, they did not bombard the feeder as one would expect, and paced themselves nicely, eating about 1.5lbs of grain a day when I did the math. I **DO NOT** recommend doing this, as it is a risky thing to do, especially if pre-management is not as good as it should be, and the goats are looking for their grain with eager anticipation. You also can *not* do this if you run a mixed herd with bucks and wethers, or else the chances of UC skyrocket, and deaths WILL happen - it's Murphy's Law.

Kelly


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## fmg

Well, no TSC here, this option may be out. Caking is not a problem here, unless it rains. Even then, it often doesn't rain enough to be a problem. I use a mineral feeder similar in style as these, but it doesn't have lids and it's plastic.


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## MF-Alpines

fmg said:


> Well, no TSC here, this option may be out. Caking is not a problem here, unless it rains. Even then, it often doesn't rain enough to be a problem. I use a mineral feeder similar in style as these, but it doesn't have lids and it's plastic.


Nancy, do a google search on "hog feeders". You'll find them. Most feed stores will have them, too, or should be able to order one for you. Also, try NASCO. Of course, anything online, you'll have to pay for shipping.


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## jdavenport

I was thinking about making an alfalfa pellet feeder based off this design http://ejackson.net/FarmPlans/NorthDakota/plans/5815.pdf , adding legs to make it the right height. I would probably leave it in the barn, to keep the pellets drier. This might be a little cheaper than buying one online.


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## Xtra

Our production increased when we starting adding high quality alfalfa pellets..... I should say, in conjunction with top quality alfalfa hay. The only thing I wasn't thrilled about was the lofty price / ton, then again it wasn't too terribly much more when you consider ZERO waste.


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## fmg

Thanks to Tracy, I just located a source not too terribly far from here, that sells excellent quality alfalfa pellets that my goats think are candy, for $240 a ton, so I may be looking at building or buying pellet feeder(s) of some kind.


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## 2wFarm

Sydney said:


> Our goats waste so much alfalfa hay. SO MUCH. Wondering if I can switch over to free choice alfalfa pellets, and give them a little grass hay at night or when there is no browse.
> 
> Has anyone on here done this before? Did you like the results? My only concern is that they won't like the alfalfa pellets, and it would be hard for kids to eat.


Mine waste too much of a $16 bale of alfalfa hay. I did do the alfalfa pellets until someone told me that the processed pellet has lost much of it's nutritonal advantage. So we switched to bagged cubes...and soak with water to make them easier for the goats to chew. They do not waste the cubes at all.


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## doublebowgoats

The brands of pellets I use are simply dried just like hay. They do undergo some heat in the process of going through the pelletizer, but the nutrition is the same as hay.


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## Golden Delta Alpines

:yeahthat
What Michelle said.


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## 2wFarm

doublebowgoats said:


> The brands of pellets I use are simply dried just like hay. They do undergo some heat in the process of going through the pelletizer, but the nutrition is the same as hay.


where is this variety available, and/or what brand name?

BTW--- Merry Christmas Taylor


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## 2wFarm

doublebowgoats said:


> The brands of pellets I use are simply dried just like hay. They do undergo some heat in the process of going through the pelletizer, but the nutrition is the same as hay.


oh, and this Q:
has anything been studied as the to the best absorption rates for a non-baled-hay-type?
ie, is cubed more nutritionally advantaged then a pellet?

I just spoke w/ a hay grower the other day who said even baled fresh hay can vary greatly from one grower to another and/or one region to another. he said assayed square bales are better to buy. (A farmer who does lab-assay nutrient content in the hay).

It seems very hard to find a _natural _(non sprayed or "organic") hay that has adequate nutrition.


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## 2wFarm

Golden Delta Alpines said:


> :yeahthat
> What Michelle said.


pellets would be so much less time consuming,

I just want to feel good about what's "in them".


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## doublebowgoats

I am not sure where you are getting the information that alfalfa pellets are less nutritious than hay, but I never heard it and when it gets right down to it, they are essentially the same product with the same nutrient content. I think the proof is in the appearance and health of goats that are fed alfalfa pellets vs hay. My goats are healthy looking and have no metabolic or digestive problems. I am proud to show them to other breeders. (talking about health, not conformation, LOL) 
Every brand of alfalfa pellets I have bought, with the exception of Purina brand are simply dried alfalfa with a protein content anywhere from 15% to 17%. Bryan, Red River, Stanlee, West, Cowtown. I am in the metroplex area, west of Fort Worth.


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## 2wFarm

doublebowgoats said:


> I am not sure where you are getting the information that alfalfa pellets are less nutritious than hay, but I never heard it and when it gets right down to it, they are essentially the same product with the same nutrient content. I think the proof is in the appearance and health of goats that are fed alfalfa pellets vs hay. My goats are healthy looking and have no metabolic or digestive problems. I am proud to show them to other breeders. (talking about health, not conformation, LOL)
> Every brand of alfalfa pellets I have bought, with the exception of Purina brand are simply dried alfalfa with a protein content anywhere from 15% to 17%. Bryan, Red River, Stanlee, West, Cowtown. I am in the metroplex area, west of Fort Worth.


My initial typing is probably vague. Nutrients is what I was thinking. My history of learning from others in the 1980s: we were taught in the equine community, that pelleted feed can contain added ingredients not required to be listed on the label by the gov't. (examples: cellulose, printed newspapers, fish parts, etc). So in my mind, when I now see a commercial "pellet" some of the nutrition would be "less" than if a pure lightly-processed hay product.

I am guessing the organic alfalfa pellets are an excellent source. I haven't seen any of the organic product yet. It's not cost effective for us to get it since it's a 5 hour round trip.

And of course, besides thinking of processing, many farmers now thinking of GMOs, chemical fertilizers, herbicides, etc.

I agree cubes and pellets are both going to list the protein % on the pkg. I was asking in terms of the purists' view--- other nutrient values. 
Macrobiotics fans believe raw foods/very-lightly processed foods are best. Organics enthusiasts...all natural. Bio-dynamic farmers believeing in optimum nutrients in the hay from properly tended soils.

Per lb, I'm wondering if commercial cubes/vs/pellets (non-organic) vary in *any other nutrients* not just protein content. Yes, as you said % of protein per LB being pretty similar. I am curious if any research shows effects to other nutrition, thru each process method.

I'm not a purist either way, we do feed Purina. I have seen really nice results for goats and chickens with Purina and that does make it cost effective (proof in the pudding :lol )

Just a quick note: no matter what feed or hay we buy, I believe if I ask the LORD to bless the meal ( for us or the animals) it'll be blessed to be optimum.


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## fmg

I think it depends on the company that makes them! Also very important is the quality of hay used in the pellets!! Some people use the crappiest alfalfa they can find, and others use real quality stuff. We have a mill here that puts wheat in the pellets, can't remember if it was wheat bran or what it was, but they standardize them to be 15% protein...I won't get those (the wheat is listed on the label). Another mill has 15% protein alfalfa pellets, that are also DYED green I have been told...they just use pretty poor quality hay is why...not gonna get those either. Standlee generally has nice quality pellets, made of just alfalfa hay, but they are expensive. I just found that source of pellets I mentioned that is really nice quality...alfalfa only 18-20% protein. The nutrients are the same in pellets that the hay they were made out of. I still do think they need a long-stem fiber to keep rumens working well, but that can come from straw, pasture, browse, etc. In regards to putting ingredients into pellets that are not listed on the bag, I believe the only way they could do something like that would be to put on the label things like, "forage products", "grain products", etc. and then they don't have to specifically list what exactly those things contain. Vague wording is where strange ingredients come from.  But if you look at good quality alfalfa pellets, the label will list ingredients and only have alfalfa as an ingredient.


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## informative

I give them regular cheap hay to waste (which they do very well it turns into flooring quickly on its own seems like) and limit alfalfa hay to the feed bucket on their stand so they appreciate and never waste it.

Only pellets I give them are usually "horse pellets 12%" from the feed mill sometimes throw in some chicken scratch, oats just because they seem to love it


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## MF-Alpines

informative said:


> I give them regular cheap hay to waste (which they do very well it turns into flooring quickly on its own seems like) and limit alfalfa hay to the feed bucket on their stand so they appreciate and never waste it.
> 
> Only pellets I give them are usually "horse pellets 12%" from the feed mill sometimes throw in some chicken scratch, oats just because they seem to love it


If you want to avoid a metabolic crash, you may want to rethink your "rationing" of alfalfa if your goats are dairy goats.


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## Xtra

Our hay pellets are chopped hay, same as what you'd get in a bale..... not crappy ditch hay, but from a reliable, reputable source. Only negative - they are spendy. But I need to emphasize it is WORTH EVERY PENNY to have NO WASTE because that means they are getting every ounce of nutrition we are spending and arm and a leg for! It's also worth the money to be guaranteed free of noxious weeds.

I should say too - in horses there is/has been CONSIDERABLE testing that goes into absorption because there are plenty of places that do not have HAY. The ONLY have pellets/cubes. If they were that bad, show horses worth unspeakable amounts would be fed something different.


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## informative

MF-Alpines said:


> If you want to avoid a metabolic crash, you may want to rethink your "rationing" of alfalfa if your goats are dairy goats.


Well they are all dry right now and I base changes on their behavior. Currently they are all visibly happy, playful and have nice shiny coats and good health attributes as far as I can tell. Visiting family described them as having changed over the last month from skinny and tired looking to "fatter and stronger" - I added some baking soda and olive oil to a couple of feedings because I was starting to worry that they were getting bloat but no its just fatter from all the trips in the forest where they gobble up lots of pine trees and whatever they decide to go for.

I will likely add more alfalfa when they are giving milk - just got the milking stand built this week. Some had obviously seen a stand before because they (older does) were quite excited and knew right where to stick their heads. Problem now is getting the three dominant does to get down off the stand when I'm done giving them shots, checking hooves and whatnot (getting them used to being touched etc).

They get to enjoy about eight acres of forest and about thirty acres of pasture - the pastures are seeded with a couple of different "deer favorite seeds" mega plot clover and wild oats and triticale stuff so they get a lot of lush green patches to munch... one of their favorites are the thorny vines I pull them down out of the trees with a stick and then they vacuum the leaves off the greenbriar stems its funny how fast they clean those things


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## doublebowgoats

Sounds like a goat paradise, Ray.


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## informative

*cedar bark*



doublebowgoats said:


> Sounds like a goat paradise, Ray.


We have a good number of dead cedar trees and they seem to be targeting these trees for bark strip as they appear to love cedar bark for a light snack. Anyone noticed this before or have any knowledge of if these are ok to let them go wild on?  I know cedar shavings are a good anti-insect material as bugs hate cedar but is it maybe also perhaps anti-parasite capable?


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## 2wFarm

Thanks Nancy...this is good info ...dyed hay??? oooo [shudder]


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## 2wFarm

informative said:


> We have a good number of dead cedar trees and they seem to be targeting these trees for bark strip as they appear to love cedar bark for a light snack. Anyone noticed this before or have any knowledge of if these are ok to let them go wild on? I know cedar shavings are a good anti-insect material as bugs hate cedar but is it maybe also perhaps anti-parasite capable?


I have seen articles about planting natural sources for browse/worming. Wormwood, nasturtiums (even tobacco in moderation--but it can be toxic). It's being studied by various universities. Internet search for ruminant university parasite herbal holistic natural studies and see what comes up.

This article I found on using goats for cedar/juniper clearing in Texas:
http://sanangelo.tamu.edu/files/2013/08/Super_Juniper_Eating_Goat.pdf


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