# Stealing Copyrighted Photos/Information



## Xtra (Jan 1, 2010)

COPYRIGHT SOAPBOX -

So I just googled a former buck I owned. *sigh* I found MY PHOTO (still with copyright on it) on a 3rd parties farm page.... I guess the new owner of the buck found it appropriate to allow use (this farm's page clearly states and I quote "We borrowed the following information from Xtraordinary Dairy with"...." 's permission:" I ommitted the name of the buck's new owner).

Here is the problem - I OWN THE PHOTO AND ALL RIGHTS TO IT and my website is COPYRIGHTED - it is my own design, I did the work. So the new buck owner CAN NOT allow use of it because it's not his/hers. I will say the 3rd party farm did attempt to give me credit, but spelled our farm/herd name wrong. If you want to use a photo I took, ASK ME..... Furthermore they copied an ENTIRE PAGE off my site and pasted it on to theirs - again without MY permission. I have called and left a message at this point - which I never should have had to do. 

This doesn't just apply to me - it's something to keep in mind when you want to borrow/use someone's photos/information. Geez, just ASK - and may I add; ask the right person. 

-Christina


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

You are absolutely right! I ask before using reference animals. If I own the animal I use my pictures and expect others to ask about using my photos.
Tam


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

Sadly Library Science is a dying field. Most people assume their right to trample others intellectual property rights. One example was early days of the internet you could find the lyrics to ANY song online. Someone got sued probably lots of people and then for years you couldn't find ANY song lyrics online (the other extreme). Today you can find "most" song lyrics online, but they are all loaded with spam and advertising to ensure whoever gave their permission gets their nickle. I'm not really having a strong opinion on the whole issue but I do think that spam and ad-ware is an obstacle and the most progress occurs when people don;t feel threatened and allow free and open sharing of information without everyone trying to get paid/credit for every tid-bit no matter how trivial.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Having been on the other end of this, you can send a cease and desist letter, but like my lawyer told me, besides a futile and expensive legal fight, your only hope is that you can scare them into taking it down. But really all you can get is damages, hard to prove there is any, the letter did scare the guy I had a problem with.

I pick my fights with this one, if the photo is horrid I ask them to please replace it with one I prefer being up. If it's the written word, I just let it go, can you imagine how many of my posts are up on other folks goat sites as their management, their health care forums, they are trying to be helpful to other new folks giving them a good start, so I just leave it at that.

Once you put something out there on the internet it is no longer yours, any savvy website designer will tell you that right click blocks and copywrite wording is meaningless.

Just contact them and ask them to take your photo down. Vicki


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## MayLOC (Oct 26, 2007)

It is maddening; I agree! I was recently ruffled myself when I came across a new grassfed beef producer. With interest I checked out their website and at first was simply amused that it seemed to resemble ours in many ways. However the more I looked it over, the more I realized that it had been copied, some pages word for word with my specific calculations and all. Then I realized that it had truly been copy and pasted. It made me very angry. It was word for word my website, I just couldn't believe that somebody would do that.

I fumed about it for a while. And then I was able to find a small bit of humor.... on the page that tells them how much beef they will receive, which is based on a percentage, there was my figure, which corresponded to the live weights we butcher at... and it didn't look very good when they used that same figure for their much heavier live weight they listed they butcher at. So much higher price, higher weights and much less beef. I had a good laugh, and knew that was all I would get out of it. Because like Vicki said and my husband reminded me.... really what are you going to do and is it worth it. Maybe send them a nice picture and ask them to use that one if you prefer. I know it is the principle, but folks just don't seem to think that way anymore it seems.


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## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

It is a matter of courtesy and respect. Perhaps in their small world your good will and their reputation don't matter to them....but eventually it will. Let them know that it is your photo and that no one had permission to use it. That you might consider letting them use it, but you need your herd referenced and a link provided to your website. Oh and spelled correctly.

Some people really are ignorant of how it works - and apparently they did "ask".

For ourselves, we always ask - asked Des Ruhigestelle, Araby Farms, and Companeros (Redwood Hills) to use dams' pictures for our bucks (oh, yeah, and Old-English). I e-mailed and told them exactly what I wanted, asked for an e-mailed picture, or if they preferred, we would try to take it directly from their website. All were very gracious and appreciative of the requests. All said yes. All were very pleased with the way we gave their herds credit and appreciation for the animals that we were using in our breeding program. And trust me, they all remember me, have looked at our website and we have established some excellent good will this way (Companeros/Redwood Hills it was a leased buck that we did not purchase from them, but they still didn't mind giving permission for the photo and pulling some info off their web page). 

Just my suggestion on the correct way to handle this, if you wish to borrow... Camille


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

I have been in that situation-- I had a deposit on a goat I was selling and the buyer backed out because they decided not to do goats. They did, however, not only steal my photo but plagiarize my entire description of him, copy and paste, as if it was their own words and post it on their website. Meanwhile, the buck is still in my buck pen and they don't even own him! I politely insisted that it be removed and they complied. Using photos without express permission and giving photo credit is one of my pet peeves.


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

Excellent thread..............how hard is it to ask permission to use a photo? I have found that most people readily agree to allow you to.


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## Xtra (Jan 1, 2010)

I could always send a bill for commercial use...... 

It's not hard to ask, it's just not - and it appears they (this 3rd party farm) did ask, but the wrong person. And that 'wrong person' should have known better.... 

Christina


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

I figure it is better in life to ask, even when I figure the answer is yes, than to assume something is ok when it's not. When I was a kid, I still asked my grandparents if I could have this or that food in their house, even though the answer was always yes of course (you'd think they were fattening us for the slaughter the way they wanted us eating all the time :lol). Kind of like in the Bible when Christ talked about taking the lower seats at the feast and then if you get invited up to the higher ones, all the better. Rather than assuming a place of prominence and then being asked to take one of the lower seats. Which is bad enough but I don't get the mindset that would still refuse when someone actually tells them no! Have they no shame? Where I come from, someone is pretty ticked by the time they decide to actually tell you something like that. Mostly people will just politely put up most things.


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## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

Although this ticks you off, wouldn't it be better to develop a good relationship with these people? It seems they tried to do the right thing by asking permission but just asked the wrong people and they did make an effort to give credit to your herd. If they love your buck and the good things he did, they might want to return to your herd for more of that bloodline someday. If you give them a lashing -that might close the door forever. It would be best, to let them know that they can use the picture but just request that they correct the spelling and give proper credit to your herd. Kindness and generosity will go a long way. 

I too always ask before using anyone's pictures or information. It is just the right thing to do.


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## Xtra (Jan 1, 2010)

Tim - thank you for pointing that out. I want to be clear, the 3rd party herd TRIED TO ASK - they merely asked the wrong people. I have spoken to them on the phone and we are beginning a wonderful relationship, so that is all cleared up.

The person who authorized the use of my material without my consent is the party I am most frustrated with.... And there is no love lost there.

Kindness and generosity do go a long way, and please know I attempt to always offer that. 


-Christina


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

I copy pics of my animals family from sites, or ask the owners to send them to me, but those are for my own benefit, I would never dream of posting them without asking permission.

If there is no love lost, then asking them to remove the pic will be fruitless, but it's good that you are on friendly terms with the 3rd party!


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## punchiepal (Aug 4, 2010)

I haven't done this for goat photos, but considering it - For wildlife photos I have taken I sometimes take them into a graphics/photo program and create a new layer on top where I put my name and copyright symbol in very light opaque print, then flatten, resave as a jpg. This way it makes it very hard to take that info off the photo. The same technique could be used to put your name, copyright symbol, website and/or herd name info right on the photo. Also, many websites use photos of high quality when that is really not needed for web viewing. Lower quality/smaller size makes it harder to copy. (also larger photos are hard on us rural dial up people LOL)


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

A simple solution is to post a link if the photo is still up on another's website. You don't even need to ask to do that. Doesn't work long term though since people retire and take down their websites. The Quarter Horse people have an awesome website with photos of foundation animals. I think it would be fabulous if ADGA could some day post photos with the pedigrees. I think it is a pity photos are mostly used as sales tools rather than archived as history.


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## Xtra (Jan 1, 2010)

As a matter of fact, you technically DO NEED PERMISSION to link to a copyrighted site, but instead of advocating just doing it anyway :naughty - it's always just basic decentcy to ASK. 

(I can tell you about many suits many "Quarter Horse people" file due to copyright infringement. And the AQHA has USE PERMISSION on their "Legends" horses. They had to ASK too.  ) I am a Quarter Horse member, breeder and have shown for decades. 

Photography is a business - people pay for the service, you do not have the right to help yourself to what they paid for. In this case, the 3rd party DID ASK - but they asked the new owner of the animal, who had NO RIGHT to allow usage (and I have talked to this person before about helping him/herself to information on my site. Furthermore, this person DOES KNOW BETTER because they post pics on FB with the a statement about having permission.).

I think it would be great for ADGA to photograph every animal LA'd and ad that into the pedigree database!! Great idea Angie. 

Sorry, I don't mean to :deadhorse I just want people to ask.... and that's not too much to ask for after all the work, expense, time and effort we put into photos/information.

Christina


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

I agree Christina..........I've had people contact me about swiping some reference animal pictures from my site. I tell them that I'm not authorized to do that, but they can contact the owners, whose names are under the pictures.


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## MiddleRiver (Oct 30, 2007)

I agree 100%, it's just called respect and common sense. I always ask the owner of the photo, to me it is the right thing to do when borrowing somebody Else's property. If somebody buys an animal from me and asks to use my pictures I don't mind, but they asked and give credit - I also tell them it's OK to ONLY use mine, others on my site that are somebody Else's I always let them know that they need to ask the owners as I do not have the authority on those. 

It's just being respectful of others really. Everybody makes a mistake once in a while, the key is to learn from it and fix it. But if you have an issue with the same person doing it over and over again it sure does speak for what kind of person they are in my opinion.


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

I've researched the linking issue and cannot find anything that says it is a copyright infringement to post a link to another website. I'd be interested if there is any legal ruling on this. I'm coming at it as an academic. A URL is a reference, like the title of a book. We have the right to say I like this book (or don't), by the same token we have a right to say I like this website (or don't). If I post a link to your website, I am only helping raise the importance of your website in the search engine, so to be bothered by that is silly.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

You are exactly right Angie, you won't be suing and doing anything but wasting money for copywrite infringement off photos of your animals or your written word not in book format from the internet. You would have to show damages, and what exactly would the damages be?

Like many things, it's morally/ethically wrong, but it isn't legally wrong unless you can show how it has damaged your income.


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

OTOH, if someone has used your photos, text, etc, without your permission, and you've asked them to take it down or acknowledge where they got it from (or whatever resolution that you'd like to see) and they've refused, you CAN go to the hosting service for their website and explain what they've done and the hosting service will often make sure it gets taken care of. No lawyers or lawsuits necessary.


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## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

Honestly I don't worry about it. If someone wants to copy a picture or instructions how to build a milking machine or whatever off of my website they can do it.


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## MILKISGOOD (Sep 13, 2012)

I have issues like that all the time. On the side I'm a photographer and a muralist, on occasion I find my work floating around out there on other people's sites. I've found that most of the time it's an honest misunderstanding, and the person who used the image doesn't realize that they did anything wrong. I contact them, tell them if they want to use my images they will need to pay me royalties or take the image off. I will usually get an apology that way. What really pushes my buttons is when someone uses my work as an example for their work/business. Example: Using a picture of a mural I did, but them using it as an example for their mural services. I will normally throw out of the words "lawsuit" and "copyright infringement" in those cases IF I don't hear back from them quickly when I ask them to remove the images.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

My question to the forum is......Then what. The only time I had to use this I did send a cease and desist via my attorney (it worked and scared the guy), but even my attorney asked me....and then what. Because unless you have money there is little to be done, and is putting up something with the words copyrighted, like all of us do on photos and our websites, really does that make it copyrighted? No. Especially on the web where there are no restrictions on much of anything, nor should there be.

So, we all know that this is objectionable, it normally is nothing more than a mistake, or newer folks to the net who don't realize we can track our words and photos from our websites and forums....most will oblige with just a nice email or call, most of the rest with a letter from an attorney.....but then what


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## milkmaidranch (Jun 21, 2010)

All the photo's on my site can't be taken. Even if someone right clicks it. Maybe you may want to look into that. I had this happen also some years back, the lady even took my write up and I had a hissy fit over it. It was gone the same day. She owned the buck but I had him at my place to breed. She never had possession of him at that time. My photo's, my write up.


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## dreamfirefarm (Nov 15, 2011)

suzy, go to your site click on one of the pictures and drag it to the desk top. You need to find a way to not let them do that either. Because that works a lot of the time. I just had to send a cease and desist email to a nice lady that copied my personal art advertising our club T-shirt right off the site and had it on her about us page for 4 yrs. A friend finally saw it and told me. so I politelly sent her and email and called her . And she said oh I thought they (ctdga) just found the art somewhere and were using it so she figured she could use it too. How often has that happened I wonder? So all of you guys that think they cant get them by right clicking are probably right but check the other way click on photo and drag to desktop.


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## milkmaidranch (Jun 21, 2010)

Lynn, whenever anyone tries to take a photo of mine from my site, a little box comes up and says it can't be copied. Did it happen? It's been like this for a few years now. I just tied it after reading your post and it can't be copied. 

GIVE ARWEN A HUGH HUG FROM ME. Suzy


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

That slows people down - but just a little Suzy. There is a way to take a screen shot of the entire page. Then you can paste it in Paintshop and crop out any photo you want. Nothing is safe. All we can do is educate people about what is proper. That is part of what we try to teach in English composition classes. I got my first email account my first day of college - I'm 33. How many people never learned these things in school?


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## milkmaidranch (Jun 21, 2010)

Well, I don't doubt it one bit. I've right clicked some pics on my site and nothing I can find will drag it. Only the sign that says they can't be copied and the OK to click.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Try Google Chrome. Not that I'm going to copy your images, just want you to know that people still can. If I right click and hit okay a couple times, a box will come up that has a check mark to make those boxes stop popping up...then I can copy at will.  And it's the original picture too, not just a screen shot. Anybody who knows a little about programming can also lift originals off of any website. But, hopefully it will at least deter some people or make them think twice about using your pics.


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## milkmaidranch (Jun 21, 2010)

Well, it's that a .............


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

They obviously loved the picture you took! I don't think I'd be too unhappy about it as long as the picture was a good one and was flattering to my herd name. I'd rather have them post my good picture of an animal carrying my herd name than a bad one they took with him looking all cruddy. Sure, asking is a given and should be done, but I'd be more than happy to let them use a picture of an animal I formerly owned if it were flattering.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

This thread is so timely! I bought a buck from the Pearl Valley sell-out. I want the pictures on the site related to this buck, dam, grand-dam, etc. I ASKED PERMISSION. Never thought not to. I don't even have a website yet, but wanted them to forward to friends. Maybe I knew to ask because of learning to ask on either this forum or others, but how can you not? It just makes sense. Maybe some people are just stupid. Or, like some of you say, they just don't know. I even asked who to contact for the pics on the website that I know belong to someone else. Where has the common sense gone in this world?


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## dreamfirefarm (Nov 15, 2011)

Suzy I still was able to copy it!


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## dreamfirefarm (Nov 15, 2011)

Suzy Dont right click it! just pick the image and drag it to the desk top there is a way to prevent this but I am not sure excatly how to do it.


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## milkmaidranch (Jun 21, 2010)

Funny, I can't get it to do it at all. Wonder why you can, Lynne


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## punchiepal (Aug 4, 2010)

Suzy,
Win 7 Firefox - I was able to start above a photo while holding my mouse button down to select it, when it was highlighted blue go up to edit/copy in firefox browser, then go to a blank word doc to paste it and save.


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## milkmaidranch (Jun 21, 2010)

Well, thanks for that so I can tell Mark how it was done.


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## lonestrchic23 (Jan 7, 2011)

Ya know, I can take any picture, even if they have the right click thing blocked.... I just have to get on my browser via my cell phone & can copy, save & forward ANY picture (yours too Suzy), & I'm not even the least bit tech savvy 8)

Really nothing is protected, you just have to depend on the decency of people. 

I don't think a picture is worth making an enemy, so if I want to use one, I just ask...... Have yet to have anyone tell me no...


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Also, you can pull up the source code and get the link to where the photo file is stored. I have done that to view pictures in full sized that were too small to see well, not to copy them!


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