# What breed and other info request...



## new2goats (Aug 15, 2008)

As most know from my intro post I don't have goats of my own yet but am helping my mother care for some Nigerian Dwarf/Pygmy crosses that were a last minute drop off. 

After meeting the Nigerian Dwarfs I love their cute faces and their small size is very appealing to me as I have toddlers who are very outdoorsy and want to help me with anything I do (meaning they'll be on my tail when I feed ect. ect ) 

I'm wanting goats (though no more than 4-6 total) to help keep things grazed down and to use for milk (just for my family..no large scale production plans in our future ever, lol).....and of course my kids will think they've just got lucky and talked mommy into MORE pets..lol. 

What (in each of your own opinions) is the best dairy goat to start out with?? What breed of goats do you have and what made you choose them? I'm honestly not familar with all the breeds....Of course I've seen Nubians, Alpines and Nigerian Dwarfs but never have I seen (or heard of honestly) a Lamancha until I joined this group  

Also...I honestly do NOT want a buck on the property...I would prefer to have does only. However I know I'd have to have my does bred in order to be able to milk them so do many goat breeders offer stud service out to people like me? 

I have no plans to show or breed just to produce kids so is it nessary that I purchase registered goats? 

Sorry if it seems like a ton of questions.....I'm a dog fanactic and do my best to spread the word about puppymills, BYBers and help people choose reputable breeders (or rescues) for their dogs. I recently lost my beloved Great Dane and even before he was gone I researched breeders for over 2 years before I finally settled on the one my next pup will be coming from and I wasn't sure if I had to be just as careful and cautious about my goat shopping as well. When I was looking for my Dane I attended shows, talked to breeders, looked at pedigrees (obviously) the breeders "track record" at shows and asked for proof on all health test such as OFA, CERF, Thyroid ect. ect Are there any health test that should be done on goats and if so what are they and what sort of proof would I ask for?

Thanks for your input!  This board is such a wealth of knowledge!


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## Theresa (Oct 26, 2007)

Good for you for asking before you got goats! First, go read all the info you can on CL and CAE. You want to make sure that you don't get this in your herd so you will want to buy from someone who test for these and has a clean herd.
Beyond that, it really is your preference to what goats most appeal to you. They each have their pros and cons. I have nubians and to some they are loud. But I love the way they look. And they are easy to handle as long as they are use to people. And my children help with the goats. They climb in and out of the pens all the time. In fact, my daughter (who is almost 7 but very small) can lead them to and from the milk stand. So, size might not matter as much as you think.

If you have registed stock you will get more for the offspring. So you might want to consider that.

The one thing that I would recommend is do NOT get goats with horns. It is just an accident waiting to happen. The first goats we had (well, they were not really ours but at our house) had horns and were pygmy or nigerian cross so small goats. My daughter was 2 at the time and loved to feed the animals. What I realized as I watched her stand over the bowl pouring the feed was if that goat raised her head she would hit DD right in the eye with her horn! Mind you they were tamed, but accidents do happen. (Not to mention all the times that goat got her head stuck in the fence.) Needless to say those goats went back home and I got new goats.

As for a buck, you could always raise a buckling, use him and then sell him. If I did not have room to keep a buck that is what I would do. But I would not be without one because then you have to rely on someone else for getting your girls bred.

Hope all this helps.
Theresa


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

I have Nubian, Nigerian Dwarf, LaMancha and Mini LaMancha Love each and everyone of them but do believe if you want a very lovable goat with nice sized teats , easy to milk and easy peazy to handle then you want a couple Mini LaMancha's They are an ideal small homestead goat. But yes you want CAE and CL free goats you do not want horns. Also before you purchase any goats from anyone then when you find what you want contact Vicki via email or pm and ask her opinion of the breeder and the goats.


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## ecftoggs (Oct 26, 2007)

Crystal,
Since you have had registered dogs you know the value of a pedigree and a breeder that will stand behind it. Use the same techiques you learned in picking a dog breeder when interviewing a goat breeder. You will learn a lot with one on one discussion, and you will know who you feel comfortable with.
I will put in a good word for the Toggenburg breed. They are intelligent, quiet, and produce well.
Tim


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## Secondairy (Aug 12, 2008)

In addition to what the others said, you will want to see those current negative test results in person. Ask for the results of fecal exams, and what the breeder uses for parasite control. We test for CAE, CL, Jones, Brucellosis and TB yearly in late summer or early fall prior to breeding. If you are buying a kid, ASK to taste her dam's milk and see if it appeals to you. Milk flavor can vary from doe to doe, and from family to family, and tends to be hereditary. Ask to milk the already fresh doe BEFORE you get her home, to see how she handles milking and handling by her current owner ans a stranger (you). Some goats don't mind at all, while others don't like change and wont let down their milk. Look at the herd as a whole - check for animals with loose, mucousy, or discolored stools, coughing, sneezing, eye, or nose discharge. Look for goats that have trouble walking or are down on their knees in front. Check hooves for the stink of foot rot. The goat you are getting is part of that herd - what you see in the other pens, even if your new purchase looks fine - is what you are potentially bringing home! Horned goats are also a problem, as they can not only hurt each other, but they can also seriously injure their handler on accident. Horned goats can also get their heads stuck in the darnedest places, and getting them out can also pose a problem. Dehorning adult goats can also be problematic, as their horns are part of their skull.

Registered goats are a personal choice. There are many great goats that are not registered, but the registration will show the family's milk production history and Linear Appraisal scores of the breeders on the pedigree were show, LA and DHIR (dairy herd improvement record) homes. Without the registration and milk records, there is no proof that a doe averaged 12 lbs. of milk on last year's lactation. And registered goats do not always have great production records either if their owners do not show, so really again, it is personal choice. Having an outlet for extra milk is always something to have planned ahead as well. We will be raising a beef calf, and maybe a pig next year on our surplus milk, in addition to cheese and soap making (if I can get the hang of it).

We have Toggenburgs, which are slightly smaller than Nubians and Saanens, and a little more close to the ground than some Alpine herds. They have longer hair in general, and some are down right shaggy. They do better in colder climates, but they tend to be a little sharper minded in my opinion (not that ANY breed is not smart, but our Toggs are darn near rocket scientists), and if you change up routine, or are planning something like catching one in the field, they ALWAYS know whats up before the others! Toggs are also very high producers as a rule, but some say that their milk is stronger flavored and better suited for cheese making. Purebred Toggs, I noticed tend to have this stronger milk, but our American Toggs are milder flavored. It is not uncommon to get 10+ lbs. of milk per day out of a 2nd or 3rd freshening doe, so that is another consideration. If you have 6 high production does that are giving you near 10 lbs. a day, that is around 60 lbs. of milk each and every day - roughly 7 gallons of milk! Toggs are pretty much monochromatic. Some shade of brown, tan, or fawn with white swiss markings. Black does occur, but only does can be registered that are black. In bucks, it is a serious defect.

Nigerians can also give a lot of milk, but 3-4 lbs. is much more common. They come in a vast array of colors, have that great small size, but I have noticed they tend to have 'little dog syndrome'. They think they are huge, and will challenge animals triple their size.

Our late Nubian cross doe was fairly quiet, but a lot of them are very noisy. ALL of her Togg crossed kids have had the "Nubian voice", even though they were erect eared, and straight or dished headed. Nubians work great in warmer climates - they have in general, shorter slicker coats, and those big ears loose heat better. They also come in many colors, including the colorfulness of Moon spots. They also have higher butterfat, and tend to have the mildest tasting milk because of that.

LaManchas have the love factor going for them! Almost every LaMancha that I have met has been very sweet and loving. I think they must have traded in their ears for a little extra dose of personality. Tattoos are given to them in their tail webbing, as they don't have enough ear for ID. They have two ear types, one is gopher, the other elf. Does can have either, but only bucks with gopher ears can be registered. Gopher ears sort of look like little swiss rolls.

There are also a number of mini breeds that combine the best of the standard sized goat with the small size of a miniature. Mini Manchas, and Mini Nubinans are the most common, but I have seen a few Mini Toggs as well. unfortunately, most of the mini Toggs that I have seen were not that nice, and most of the Togg attributes that i love about that breed were apparently bred out. Not to say that is always the case though!

Each breed has it's pros and cons. Really, you need to find a breed that appeals to you. They all require about the same as far as feed (slight differences in quantity),minerals, housing and shelters are concerned. They all require a place for daily exercise. Unlike dogs, as far as I know - and please don't quote me - but the breeds are all about the same as far as temperament. Aggressive dairy goats usually weren't kept around as breeding stock, so the chance to reproduce it was reduced. Nervousness also tended to be something that goes with little tolerance, and major genetic defects were also bred away from. I am sure if you looked, you could find animals that fit that description, but a reputable breeder will not retain them for breeding. They are a liability.

Hope that helped!

Kelly


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## mill-valley (Feb 22, 2008)

As far as the buck situation...I think you will find that most buck owners will be happy to let you breed to their boys as long as you have a clean herd...around here any buck is fair game for the right price . 

I'll vote for Alpines. I have both Saanens and Alpines...but I really like the individuality of the Alpines. All different colors, very different attitudes and personalities. The Saanens are very calm and sweet...but not as much personality IMO...really depends on the goat though. Some people don't like how aggressive Alpines are, they have a very definate pecking order. Both breeds milk very well. For home milk consumption you may want to consider mini's because 4-6 standard size does worth their keep will have milk coming out of your ears! Unless you are wanting to get calves/pigs or make cheese or soap...you will be dumping milk.


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## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

Hi there,
I have Alpines and just love them, but honestly, if you have littles that will be with you in the pens you might just want to stick with the Nigerian Dwarfs or mini LaManchas. Especially if you are not going to be into high milk production. Grown Alpines, Saanens and Nubians alike can be well into the 180-190 or 200+ pound range and that's a lot of weight when stepping on littles' toes or bumping into them. There are people around that lease out a buck for breeding. You just have to ask on here or some of the other lists to see who is near you. 
We usually test for CAE and CL in our herd and that is important as with your dogs. And just like with dogs there are those breeders out there that are... "unscrupulous". Ask around before purchasing.


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## laughter777 (Jun 16, 2008)

I second Mini Manchas! Having 1 mini, 1 LM, and 1 LM/Nubian. I have to say the LM and the Mini are the sweetest of the 3, but the LM will get bigger (right now she and the mini are the same size)...so with kiddos I recommend the mini, but I have had goats for all of 3 months!


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## Agape Oaks (Oct 30, 2007)

I have Nigerian Dwarfs, a few La Manchas & 1 Mini Mancha....obviously those are my favorites . If you're wanting just milk for your family a few Nigerians would be enough. They also have the advantage of being year around breeders so you can breed some for spring & some for fall & never have a decrease in milk. For milk production in a small size, nothing beats my mini mancha- she very consistantly milks about 8 pounds ( 1 gallon) per day & is one that I'm planning to just keep milking & not re-breed. Mini Manchas would be less expensive to buy, but also less money for their offspring. Like others have said make sure to check health before buying any goats. It's good that you're doing the research 1st!


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## Goater (Nov 6, 2007)

We've had Mini-LaManchas for over six years. We chose them for three reasons: size, temperment and milk quality. I can't speak to any of the other mini breeds but the combo of Nigerian and LaMancha is a winner. If you decide to go with mini breeds aim for 3rd generation or higher. The size will be more stable.

As you are in Texas, I just happen to know of several Mini-LaMancha Breeders who can help you out...


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## LynninTX (Oct 25, 2007)

I have LM & Mini LM and a houseful of dc... that is why we chose the LM breed and branched out into the Mini Manchas.

They are incredibly sweet and gentle...

This was 2005 we had had goats less than 1 yr... Caleb was 3 then...










My dc assist at births, help hand raise babies, and milk the goats. Caleb now 6 can bring the goats to & from the milk rm and milk with supervision.

My goat baby yard is my small back yard where my 2 & 4yo play...










As far as breeding... being TX you have access to a few of us depending on where you are, BUT noting heats especially as a newbie and especially with LM or MM is hard... I would not chose to be without a buck. I currently have 4 (2LM & 2MM) and that is how I like it. My bucks though are all hand raised and very gentle and well behaved. My dc handle them easily.

This is my herdsire with my baby his first yr










Now NO I do not put my baby in my buck yard.... nor let a toddler in without us, but I do not hesitate to do buck chores with a toddler in tow. And my slightly older dc do easily do buck chores alone.


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## hamilton40 (Jun 21, 2008)

I have had several breeds, Nigerian Dwarfs, Pygmies, La Mancha's, Boar's, Nubian's, Mini Nubians, And several mixed breeds over the years. All though they have most all been good friendly goats I am parcial to Nubian's and that is pretty much all I deal with anymore. I do think that Nubian's are the most vacal of all the goats I have owned and are not for some people for that reason. They like to talk to you and can be quit loud at times so make sure your neighbors are far enough away or they don't mind hearing them. 

As for a buck I would not be without at leist one, It makes breeding a lot easeir on you and a lot less stressfull for your does. Not to mention the one main problem you could encounter is that some does will only stand for a buck for a few hours (Does will go into a standing heat for a couple of hours to a couple of days) This could make breeding next to imposible for you.

Good luck with your new goats when you get them.

Clay


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Now just cause their small does make them any nicer or easier for children to deal with than the big gals and guys either  Jace (3 year old) helps me do buck chores with two big ole boys everyday.

I also recommend mini manchas also. Right now they are less money but if I have anything to do with this and especially with our new breed club, they won't be the step sisters in price for much longer 

A doe who milks as much as he larger counterpart on half the alfalfa pellets and 1/4 the grain? Why should she be less money when she makes you more? Vicki


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## Agape Oaks (Oct 30, 2007)

Vicki McGaugh Tx Nubians said:


> I also recommend mini manchas also. Right now they are less money but if I have anything to do with this and especially with our new breed club, they won't be the step sisters in price for much longer
> 
> A doe who milks as much as he larger counterpart on half the alfalfa pellets and 1/4 the grain? Why should she be less money when she makes you more? Vicki


I agree Vicki, but reality is that my Mini Mancha freshened in the spring & had some beautiful doelings who were harder to sell for 1/2 the money then the Nigerians. On the most recent DHI test, she milked more then a full sized La Mancha! I'm milking her thru though....why breed & be unable to sell kids for a decent price?


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## Guest (Aug 20, 2008)

Agape Oaks said:


> On the most recent DHI test, she milked more then a full sized La Mancha!


I don't believe it. Whose full size LaMancha? I can't imagine a MM out milking one of my full size LaManchas or Nubians.

It really depends on what you want. I think we all end up with breeds that closely match our personalities. I have Nubians and LaManchas and wouldn't breed anything else. You'll never catch me on the mini bandwagon. I love my big (and quiet!) goats. 

Sara


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## LynninTX (Oct 25, 2007)

> Now just cause their small does make them any nicer or easier for children to deal with than the big gals and guys either Smiley Jace (3 year old) helps me do buck chores with two big ole boys everyday.


OH I agree every one of those pics is a LM not a MM!!



> I don't believe it. Whose full size LaMancha? I can't imagine a MM out milking one of my full size LaManchas or Nubians.


Well one of my MM milks 8+lbs a day... and passed 9lbs during her peak. She ranks as my 2nd to 3rd highest milker each day.


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## Guest (Aug 20, 2008)

LynninTX said:


> Well one of my MM milks 8+lbs a day... and passed 9lbs during her peak. She ranks as my 2nd to 3rd highest milker each day.


That's what I thought. My FF milk more than 9# when they are first fresh.

Still, a good amount for a smaller doe. Can anyone tell me what the butterfat runs on MM? I am guessing that few are enrolled in DHIR. Does anyone on here have their MM on test? Agape, what does the butterfat run on your doe?

Sara


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## Becky-DixieDoesAlpines (Oct 26, 2007)

BlissBerry said:


> LynninTX said:
> 
> 
> > Well one of my MM milks 8+lbs a day... and passed 9lbs during her peak. She ranks as my 2nd to 3rd highest milker each day.
> ...


Yes, our yearling Alpines this year all milked between 12.5 and 14.5 at peak.

I'll put another vote for Alpines and I've had every breed but Obers.
Alpines are smart, affectionate, loyal, beautiful, quiet, and excellent producers.


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## Bilrite Farms (Oct 26, 2007)

BlissBerry said:


> It really depends on what you want. I think we all end up with breeds that closely match our personalities. I have Nubians and LaManchas and wouldn't breed anything else. You'll never catch me on the mini bandwagon. I love my big (and quiet!) goats.


Ahem Sara - don't write off those minis too fast. I remember a time when all you wanted were Nubians.

I am going to suggest that you visit several breeders and meet their goats. Eventually you will find a breed/size that will match what you are looking for. We tried Nubians and a couple other breeds and they weren't for us. We have Alpines and Nigerians now and they match what we need for our farm. Our Alpines all have decent temperaments. We won't allow mean goats on our place and therefore they are gentle and easy going and honestly, I'd think they're be better for smaller humans than a spunky, determined ND (we still have a couple of in our herd).
LOL - maybe just figure out which breed you look the most like (personality counts too of course) and go with them... that is my theory on people's breed choice.


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## Agape Oaks (Oct 30, 2007)

BlissBerry said:


> Agape Oaks said:
> 
> 
> > On the most recent DHI test, she milked more then a full sized La Mancha!
> ...


It was my mini mancha & my La Mancha....both second fresheners. This minimancha is one incredible milker. On milk test the 2 were close, but the mini did outmilk the full sized doe.


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## Agape Oaks (Oct 30, 2007)

[/quote]

That's what I thought. My FF milk more than 9# when they are first fresh.

Does anyone on here have their MM on test? Agape, what does the butterfat run on your doe?

Sara
[/quote]
Hi Sara
Mine is on test....I knew she milked a lot & I wanted the info . I don't remember offhand, but if I remember I'll look when I get home. I know it was higher then the LaManchas but less then the Nigerians


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## new2goats (Aug 15, 2008)

Thanks so much for all the replies!!! I really appreciate it!! Anyone care to give a brief summary on CAE and CL?? What exactly are they and is it something you actually see (like sores or something physical) or something that can only be detected by testing? I've never heard of either until this board and have yet to really research on it...

Also..since I will obviously breed on a small scale for milking purposes do I need to have my does tested and where does one test for this sort of thing? My mom has her goats right now and we know nothing about their past health really...so should she get hers tested (especially since one may be bred) before she uses any milk from them or that sort of thing?

On to breeds....the Nigerians (well 3/4 Nigerian) that my mom has have sweet temperments (and it's hard to find cuter faces IMO). In fact I was going to bring two here and she would keep the others at her house, BUT they all have horns and I do not want horns. And LOL at the mention of "small dog syndrom"..The pygmy buck she has...while he is a lover has a major attitude problem as well and rmeinds me of my neighbors ANNOYING Chihuahua..he's smaller than the does by a good deal actually but he's always being a bully and will bully just about anything. 

I had an alpine goat as a kid that had great milk and the sweetest temperment, but I want something smaller than that. Maybe in time I'll move up to a bigger breed, but my husband works out of town and I'd like goats that are very easy for me to manage on my own just for basic worming, feet trimming ect. ect. 

The La Manchas and mini Manchas are something I've never seen. In fact when I first stumbled across a picture of one online my heart broke because I thought someone had been cruel and cut off it's ears!! :blush This may be a stupid question, but do they have any higher case of ear related problems or ear infections because of their unique ears?? I know for a fact I'd like at least 2 Nigerian Dwarfs but after hearing all this Mancha raving I might like some mini Manchas as well...don't see why I can't have more than one breed of doe. Which on that note this is quite funny...when I talked my husband into letting me research and make plans to start this we had agreed on two goats...some how along the way though I've got him talked up to 4 or 5....lol I kind of worry this might become like my Dane addiction and "One (or in this case 2) is never enough" LOL

Not sure if this is an appropriate question to ask publicly so if it's not I'd welcome PM answers (and sorry for being rude if it isn't polite to ask in public) , but what price range (just an average) am I looking at for Nigerian Dwarfs and mini Manchas from healthy heards?? You can list unregistered and registered price ranges. I'm not dead set on my goats having to be registered as I don't have plans for any sort large scale production but healthy is a top priority for me. 

I also would really like to start out with two kids. I know they would take alot of care and work, but I want them disbudded and I want to let them grow up with my kids (I got my alpine when she was a baby and I swear she was one of the best pets I ever had) So I don't know if older goats vs. kids reflects a price difference or not but that would be my prefered route to go (unless I was lucky and found an adult who was very tame, disbudded and freidnly I'd consider an adult) 

One last question that is kind of related to this topic.....Any of the members here in Texas like to comment on what grazing is best? We just burned all the brush in my pasture, have hauled in some nice top soil and plan to plow and plant it with something that would make nice grazing and keep bad weeds at bay......if you were in my shoes what would you plant? Right now it's bare and kind of black out there, lol but when given the slightest chance (and some actual rain) vegetation grows well out there....we have city and well water out here so we plan to irrigate as well to help it get a nice start.....we just can't decide what to plant and what would hold up best. Any input or opinions would be great. 

Thanks again for everything!!!!!!! 

BTW- Thanks for posting the pictures...too cute for words!


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## Theresa (Oct 26, 2007)

Crystal, I think there is a good post in goat 101 on CL and CAE. But CL causes abcesses on your goats. It is highly contagious. The abcesses break open and the bacteria is spread to other goats and your land. (not something you want to deal with) There are test for both of these and it is a blood test. You can either have the vet draw the blood or do it yourself. 

I like you a few years ago just wanted a few goats for pets. Then I decided that I wanted to sell kids and possible show. So, I sold all the unregistered goats and all that I have now are purebred nubians. (with the exception of the MM). I know right now you are not interested but would your kids ever be intersted in showing, and it cost just as much to raise one that is not registered as one that is. (Just something to think about)

And I agree raising kids are fun. Every year my children look forward to having bottle babies, although we also look forward to weaning! :lol And each year we have one brat. That is the kid that my daughter decides is the best doeling there is and it becomes hers. Yes, the poor thing is lugged around until she can not pick it up anymore. It has to swing with her, follow her everywhere, play with her (not that they ever seem to mind.) Then it is put with the other goats and does not realize that it is a goat! :rofl So, if you want a couple of doelings then you have all winter to read, learn, and decide what you want. But also you might consider a doe already in milk next spring. As long as you buy from someone who is honest, and will tell you if the goat is tamed then you should not have any problems. I will just tell you that most of my goats out weigh me by 60 to 100 pounds. (for those on the forum who have meet me they know I am short and not very big) but I have no problem trimming hooves, giving meds, or anyother care they need by myself. Now I do have a milkstand and use it for almost everything. But you teach goats who is the boss just like you do your dogs. This way you can handle them when you need to without any problems.

Now, mini manchas are fun. And if you decide that you want some then I have to say that Sondra has some really nice ones. There are several of use here who have some from her. Smaller goats do come with their own challenges. Like they can get through cattle panels when my nubians no longer can. The best advise I can give is to try to visit a few different herds or go to a goat show. That way you can see all the breeds and decide what is best for you.
Theresa


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## Goater (Nov 6, 2007)

This may be a stupid question, but do they have any higher case of ear related problems or ear infections because of their unique ears??]
I've never owned anything being LaMancha and MiniLaManchas but out of an average herd of about 50 we have maybe two ear problems a year.
I'm not dead set on my goats having to be registered as I don't have plans for any sort large scale production but healthy is a top priority for me. 

Healthy goes without saying but registered is better as a matter of economics. Registered sells for more and unless you intend to keep all your kids you're going to have to sell some.


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## Bella Star (Oct 27, 2007)

I have LaMancha's as they are very smart ,very quiet and very healthy. My gal's come when called by their name and I have to put a extra lock on the gate as one doe lets herself out . 

If I was starting out again with a new herd, I would be VERY picky, choose the breed of choice and study and learn what is good body structure for that type of goat, buy only from a CAE and CL free herd , buy the very best I could afford as to registered or unregistered , I would buy a doe with a kid at their side in the spring and always TASTE the milk and look at the udder size and condition . 

Goats multiply fast and it cost just as much to feed a sale barn cull goat as it does a really nice goat


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## Secondairy (Aug 12, 2008)

> One last question that is kind of related to this topic.....Any of the members here in Texas like to comment on what grazing is best? We just burned all the brush in my pasture, have hauled in some nice top soil and plan to plow and plant it with something that would make nice grazing and keep bad weeds at bay......if you were in my shoes what would you plant? Right now it's bare and kind of black out there, lol but when given the slightest chance (and some actual rain) vegetation grows well out there....we have city and well water out here so we plan to irrigate as well to help it get a nice start.....we just can't decide what to plant and what would hold up best. Any input or opinions would be great.


I am not in Texas, and maybe other will reply with a better local answer, however goats are natural browsers, and unfortunately, the annoying brush you burned is the best thing for goats! Native weeds are also usually eaten with more relish than just grasses. A high quality forage mix should suffice in general (someone please correct me if I am wrong!) - don't plant lawn grasses, as it will not hold up to the traffic of goats, let alone adequate nutrition. Also lawn grasses require regular watering or they brown out and die. Also, many lawn grasses are pre-treated with pesticides.

Kelly 
P.S.
The only stupid questions are the ones that go unasked!


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## Guest (Aug 21, 2008)

I grew up around Nubians and that is what we are going to buy. We have Boers now and they are all unregistered, which is okay, but I wish I would have gotten then papered. Truth is you don't have to spend that much more to get a registered animal. 

I do like the mini LaManchas though and I think they would be a good fit for someone that just needs milk around the house.

But just like everyone else said it is up to you in the end.


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## Bella Star (Oct 27, 2007)

as to pasture... winter is soon to be here, oats and rye grass are the 2 that come to my mind , however I am not a reliable source as my winters and climate is different so I would check into a deer grass seed mixture for your area as it will have a mixture of seed plant types. 
Goats are not like cows grazing along, they would have loved the stuff you burnt off  but hopefully it will grow back .


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## Goater (Nov 6, 2007)

As far as forage, an easy way is to get the seed mix that deer hunters plant to attract deer. Most anything a deer likes, goats will like. Another easy and inexpensive thing to plant is oats, in fact you can plant the whole oats you buy to feed your goat.

Something to consider when you buy your goats is what is available locally. Someone nearby who can mentor you and even come over to check out a problem with your goats is invaluable, not to mention being able to provide stud service. I'm not sure who on the board is in west Texas, but I bet there are several of them.

Goater's Hubby


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## new2goats (Aug 15, 2008)

Thanks for everything y'all. 

In referance to the brush...we literally only had cactus, gords and bullnettle (and of course a few pitiful mesquite..which we left several out there). Literally nothing else out there what so ever. We burned it because my husband is DEADTHLY allergic to bullnettle..as in he has only 15 minutes to get to an ER and our closest hospital is 40 minutes away. I was digging them up like crazy without much luck...even when I dug deep, got all the root they still came back within a very short time and spread like wildfire. So far they haven't come back at all since the burning so I'm thrilled....we even have a bit of real grass out there (no clue what sort or how it even started growing but it's coming up in small patches).

I'll just get a deer mix to put out there ( I assume a feed store or something like Tractor Supply would carry it) and see what else grows up on it's own. I find it really strange that we have real grass growing out there as I have never (in 5 years) seen any actual "grass" on this property accept for the bermuda planted in the yard area.....I'm not picky about what's out there..just want some decent browseing.


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## Rambar Ranch (Oct 25, 2007)

The bermuda in your yard would work well for them if your already growing it in your location. We don't have woods available for browse either but have just all pasture in coastal bermuda and the goats will graze that when they get bored from the hay they get. Bermuda you can seed but other types of coastal you have to sprig but it tends to spread rapidly with good rain fall.

Ray


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## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

I'll make a bid for Saanens.  We have 8 DC and they do just fine with them. They are sweet and quiet. They love to milk - they live to milk!

Something you might want to consider is choosing a breed that someone else (a good breeder) is raising as well, so you can get buck service. Many breeders provide stud service, especially on animals that they have sold. If you really get into this (and watch out, you will! Especially if you hang out here too long  ) you might be able to share bucks with the other breeder, allowing you both to advance more quickly with your breeding program while sharing some of the costs.

Camille
P.S. I am impressed by the mini-La Mancha's production, but you need to compare the "top" mini to a "top" LaMancha, and then there is no comparison. Good milking LaManchas can/will produce 12-14 lbs/day as 2 year old 2nd fresheners. How does your Mini milk for the duration of 
her lactation? In other words, how much does she give at 9-10 months fresh?

I love a Saanen that peaks at 15.5 lbs of milk/day for 3 weeks, but I am especially pleased at the 9-10 lbs/day she is still giving at 10 months fresh (except it is difficult to dry her up LOL ). And she was a 2 year old 2nd freshener as well.


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## Agape Oaks (Oct 30, 2007)

wheytogosaanens said:


> Camille
> P.S. I am impressed by the mini-La Mancha's production, but you need to compare the "top" mini to a "top" LaMancha, and then there is no comparison. Good milking LaManchas can/will produce 12-14 lbs/day as 2 year old 2nd fresheners. How does your Mini milk for the duration of
> her lactation? In other words, how much does she give at 9-10 months fresh?


Last year I struggled to dry this mini mancha up as we were going to VA to the AGS nationals & I didn't wnat to get her tested for TB & bruccellosis to take her with us when she can't compete. This year I plan to keep her milking on an extended lactation rather then breeding her again, as mini mancha kids were harder to sell. On her most recent test (she's been fresh since Mar ) milked around 7 pounds.....& our temps here have been in the 100's all month. I'm looking foreward to seeing how she does with an extended lactation. I know she's not as high production wise as a top milking La Mancha, but for a doe who's substantionally smaller then the La Manchas, to outmilk an average La Mancha ( one who should still earn her * this year) was impressive to me, even if it was just by a few ounces


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2008)

Crystal, overall health is probably your first concern picking out new goats. Is their hair shiny and thick? Are they alert? Are their legs straight or bowed? ECT, ECT. When Lindsey got her first goats she knew nothing about goats. Her does were older "donation" goats. Theres not alot you can do about previous care and past illnesses in older animals. So to make a long story short we got goaties that took awhile to bring back around to a healthy state. And the one doe we have left from the "donation" has turned into a nice kid producer that gives great milk. A good strategy is to get an idea on a feeding and mineral program, get a med box made, find a good vet. Then when you know what you really want you will be set up for them already. I had to build a fence in January three years ago (live in Washington)...TALK ABOUT UNPREPARED!

I have to say that I like raising kids better than having a full grown goat plopped in my back yard. It took several months for those goats to get comfortable and for Lindsey and I to know what to expect from them. We got lucky in the fact that these does were extremely lovable but it could have turned out worse. Kids you raise think of you as MOM. Lindsey is regarded as THE BOSS SISTER. (Oh I forgot to mention Lindsey has Cerebral Palsy, is in a motorized wheelchair, and owns Nubian and Alpines, and shows goats). 

Another thought here is that goats do weird things like run around the yard, jump off of walls and sometimes even jump in mid-air twitching every muscle possible. This is not a crazy goat, its a healthy goat who feels good. The above mentioned "donation" doe is seven yrs now and she runs with the little girls like she was one of them. She is much healthier now :biggrin. Tammy


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## Daniel Babcock (May 28, 2008)

I will add my vote for the Mini-Manchas. After intensive research my family decided on them and we could not be happier. I have been to many farms, visiting goats milking the different goats, tasting the milk and observing behaviors. 

The mini-manchas are so sweet, they follow my children around like puppies, and cry when the children leave them in the pasture. Yet they are quiet compared to some breeds (Numbian esp) 

Right now we have 6 doe's with one in milk. The Nigerian in the mix seems to really sweeten the milk. The MM's have higher butter fat than any of the standard breeds. 

Also, my MM's are great browsers, which for me is a real plus considering the cost of feed. 

We just purchased 2 bucks ( a three year old and a 18 month old) to add to our herd and they are the sweetest animals (excepting the smell . . . right now they are in the rut) My two year old son wanders out and in with the bucks, pulling their tails throwing his arm over their backs following them around they are great! 

I am sure many breeds of goats would work, for me the choice was either Nigerian Dwarf or Mini-Manchas. For milking the have larger teats making milking much easier (saving your hands from corporal tunnel).

Good luck with your decision! If I can be of further assistance feel free to PM me!


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## eliya (Mar 11, 2008)

I like the MiniManchas too, but my all time FAVORITE is the MiniNubians! I just LOVE this breed. They are just the right size (not to big not to small), are not overly vocal, and are the CUTEST things ever! I have had Nigierians... They are TOO SMART! They can get out of anything. I've also had full sized Nubians, which in comparison to the ND's, are not smart at all... The MiniNubians are a nice blend of the two breeds. Not Houdini's like the ND's but not as 'slow' as many Nubians. I love the ears of the Nubians and we are striving for that in the MiniNubians. And have gotten it for the most part here. 
































































The MiniNubians also milk quite well. My does average around 4-6 lbs for a 2nd freshener, but some give a lot more. I have a couple does that average around 7 lbs and have one doe that regularly gives 8 lbs and peaked at over 10 lbs as a 2nd freshener. I can hardly wait to see how she milks next year! Here are some pictures of my milkers:
A first freshener:








2nd freshener:








1st freshener:















7 year old doe (who gives around 8 lbs a day):








Molly, the one that peaked over 10 lbs:









All breeds will depend on how they are handled - some large goats will be easy to handle if raised correctly while some of the smallest goats can be impossible if not raised right. My MiniNubians are all extremely friendly. They are gentle with children and let strangers milk them with no problems. My bucks are all gentlemen - even when they are in rut. I breed for PERSONALITY - If I don't like the personality of the goat, she/he moves on. Plus my goats are around children from day one so they get used to people. That said, a smaller goat is going to be easier to handle if you do have to do something that involves forcing them. When you have to drench them with nasty tasting stuff, it's alot easier when the goat weighs under a hundred pounds instead of up to 200! When you have a sick or hurt one, it's a lot easier to carry a smaller goat to the car. Or, when all the kids decide it's time for breakfast...








This is a lot easier to stand when they are minis!!! LOL :rofl :crazy
And they are great with children...

















I'm sure you will love whatever breed you decide to get, provided that they are raised well and are healthy. Good luck choosing the right goats for your family!!!


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2008)

The MiniNubian thing... well that's just wrong!  One of the BEST things about the Nubians is their size and regal carriage.  And hey... Nubians can be smart; you just have to breed for it like anything else.

Looks like yours have pretty ears, but I can still see the ND influence in the muzzle and mammary systems.

To each their own I guess. 

Sara


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Crystal

Just my opinion here but with so many of us here in TX now raising Mini LaMancha's and a new association going in, plus the fact your leaning twards smaller goats.
You sure could get some good stock from any of us. and always have a buck available to breed with. Just my opinion. 

Goater
Lynn n TX
Quilmidwife
Vicki
myself 
and some others


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## eliya (Mar 11, 2008)

Sara, Yep, we have the ND influence in there. I like some of the good things the ND's can bring to the breed. The MiniNubians (in my opinion anyway) should be a good blend of the two breeds. They should look pretty much like a Nubian with a few minor differences. The roman nose has been a little harder for me to get so far. I have a buck now that ought to be bringing that to my kids.


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## eliya (Mar 11, 2008)

Udder Insanity Toggs said:


> ... I have seen a few Mini Toggs as well. unfortunately, most of the mini Toggs that I have seen were not that nice, and most of the Togg attributes that i love about that breed were apparently bred out. Not to say that is always the case though!


Hey Kelly, check out this MiniTogg on MDGA's Virtual show - http://goatshow.50webs.com/aomintermediatedoelings.html She looks like a pretty typy doeling.


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2008)

eliya said:


> The MiniNubians (in my opinion anyway) should be a good blend of the two breeds. They should look pretty much like a Nubian with a few minor differences.


Well, I learned something new today.  I just assumed that the MiniNubians were supposed to look like Nubians but in a much smaller package. Thanks for clarifying.

Sara


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## eliya (Mar 11, 2008)

No problem. There are a few people who think they should be exactly like small Nubians, but for the most part, people like the traits that the Nigerians bring to the mix.

Hey Sara, you're not that far from me, if you're ever in the Mondovi or Eau Claire, WI area, I'd love to have you visit. Maybe you'd like the MiniNubians better if you saw them in person.  Besides that I always love to visit with other breeders. And you could probably give me some pointers on the goats as well.


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## new2goats (Aug 15, 2008)

Those pictures are too cute for words!!!! I keep browsing through the websites on everyone's profiles and all the goats are so sweet  Ya think hubby will just make things easy on me and let me have a few of each variety?? :laughcry


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## Carolyn (Oct 27, 2007)

I have 3 full sized Nubian does and a doeling and 4 Mini Nubians--I enjoy them all--one of the full sized Nubians is a big girl and very gentle with my almost 3 yrs old GS, but we do like the MInis as well and our minis milk well also--FF at 5 to 6 lbs--2 gen, but we do have a 3 gen FF that milks out at 5 lbs and one that milks at 3 lbs. Two of them have been milking for over a year and still giving between 2 and 3 lbs a day, we decided to keep miling them. The other full sized Nubians don't have much personality--but I think some of that comes from how they are raised, we bought these 2 right after they freshened and they just don't have any personality--they are the only 2 that didn't learned to open the gate( had to change that real fast)--they jsut didn't get it. We will see how they freshen out next spring and if they loosen up a bit. I would love to get some good milking Mini LaManchas, but there arent' any even close to us. Carolyn


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## eliya (Mar 11, 2008)

Thanks Crystal. I just love the MiniNubians. Like Carolyn said, they have awesome personalities! Good luck in choosing the right breed for your family!


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2008)

eliya said:


> Hey Sara, you're not that far from me, if you're ever in the Mondovi or Eau Claire, WI area, I'd love to have you visit. Maybe you'd like the MiniNubians better if you saw them in person.  Besides that I always love to visit with other breeders. And you could probably give me some pointers on the goats as well.


You live in such a pretty area... I love Wisconsin!

I get through your neck of the woods for a couple shows each year - one in Portage and one in Marshfield. Eau Claire is where I fuel up. 

Same goes here; if you are ever in the area stop by for a visit. 

Sara


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## eliya (Mar 11, 2008)

Will do. When are your Marshfield and Portage shows? We are just a half hour south of Eau Claire - right off Hwy 10. I bet you go right by us. Unless you come over on I-94.  Even then, if you stop b our place, you could go on Hwy 10 - which is a BEAUTIFUL drive by the way. I LOVE Buffalo county where we live now. The wooded hill's and valleys are just beautiful. Hopefully we'll get to meet sometime. I'm usually at the Northern Wisconsin State Fair ADGA show if you're ever there.


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