# rotational grazing for milk production



## cowboygourmet (Mar 13, 2009)

Is anyone in this group using a rotational grazing program to maximize milk production? Using an aggressive approach to grazing can be a very viable alternative to grain feeding if done properly. Using plants such as: pearl millet, lespideza, shrub or tree lespideza, ball clover, oats and rye grass, wheat etc.-- dance:


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## Madfarmer (Nov 18, 2008)

Well, not much as of yet, but that's the plan, if I live long enough. That model is being used more & more with dairy cows. I see no reason why it won't work with goats. Actually, it already has, come to think of it. David Mackenzie discusses it in "Goat Husbandry." That's in Britain, so the plant community would be different, but the idea's the same.

Tom


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

It is a wonderful idea if you have the room for me with just confinement I have to feed as no browse or anything much.


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Where can I read more about this? We have more land than we know what to do with, and it's primarily hillside, so it will grow this stuff, but it's hard to manage with a tractor. If I could plant the right stuff, it sure would be nice to manage land and feed goats with one effort!


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## cowboygourmet (Mar 13, 2009)

You can contact Dr. Steve Hart at Langston University in Oklahoma. He does reseach at the Kiko de LaGarza goat institute. his phone number is 405-466-6103 :yeahthat


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## Madfarmer (Nov 18, 2008)

www.polyfacefarm.com is Joel Salatin's website. There's a lot of info there, and his books are available.

Tom


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## Douger (Feb 1, 2009)

i live on the WV KY border and i do all of my business in KY sales and feed KY of agriculture has allot on fencing grazing what grass grow best in are area if i moved 15 minutes away which would put me in KY they help with cost of fencing barn getting started


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

I'm familiar w/Joel Salatin. But to my understanding, he doesn't do dairy. Based on what I've read, his cattle are for beef (from his books Salad Bar Beef, You Can Farm, Holy Cows and Hog Heaven... I've read those and his Pastured Poultry Profits) and his philosophy is that while they may grow slower over the winter w/o grain, they will catch up in the spring on the grass. I know he's big into being a grass farmer first. But, I still can't wrap my brain around how this works for dairy. 

About Dr. Hart--is he doing this for dairy?


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## Madfarmer (Nov 18, 2008)

It works for anything that eats grass. Produce healthy forage and you get healthy, productive livestock. If you're trying to push dairy animals for absolute maximum production, chances are you're not going to get it on forage alone. What dairymen throughout the world have found out is that even at somewhat lower milk production, their profits are as good or better, because they're not spending so much on feed, and their animals are generally healthier. There's a gazillion wesites with info. Google "seasonal grass-based dairy".

Tom


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Okay, thanks!


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## Douger (Feb 1, 2009)

some beef farmer in the north west have been breeding low line cattle that started over seas and it is basically what iv read about them is the same cattle are grandparents raised they don't get as big as market cattle we see today but they top out faster and are graze cattle only which all livestock were at on time only graze animals they are built to live on garzing


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## Jacquelynn (Dec 2, 2008)

It does work for everything that eats grass but...  We do grass-fed beef here. From start to finish, no grain or supplements except hay in the winter, (and just a little of that) and salt/minerals. Our beef cows do great. Our dairy cows, not so well. We are working on upping our pasture quality but that takes time. To get a dairy animal to keep condition and produce even at lower amounts you have to have great quality forage. Our cows only give around 3-5 gallons a day and they still get grain. We tried just grass and alfalfa and it didn't work. The cows started losing condition and we had to put them back on grain. Haven't tried it with the goats. I don't think we'll ever get our dairy animals off grain completely. I would like to work them lower as our pasture gets to a better quality though. If you want to do this do allot of research, plant good plants and fertilize naturally before you start. And then, keep a close eye on your animals condition  (I'm sure y'all do that any how!  I think grass-fed is great but you have to be very careful as dairy animals are not the same as their wild counterparts. They need allot more nutritious diet to keep in health.

Jacquelynn


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## cowboygourmet (Mar 13, 2009)

I can appreciate your thoughts on this subject, however, the success or failure of rotaitional grazing for milk production also depends on your level and skill at management of forage and animals. For example; do you rotate your paddocks on a daily basis or weekly or just when the grass gets short. Probably, for best results, the cows need to be sent to fresh pasture at least every other day. You are correct that total milk production will be down for grass fed but your cost should be down significantly if you don't have to purchase grain or complete feed stuffs.
dance: Profits should be way up and if your forage is good quality, the cows should maintain conditioning without sacrifice.


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## Madfarmer (Nov 18, 2008)

One more good resource for info on this topic is a subscription to "The Stockman-Grassfarmer"

Tom


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2009)

Dairy goats being browsers instead of grazers. Won't your worm burdens increase with rotational grazing. Especially if you do it the way you do with cows, which is to make them eat down everything in that paddock/pasture and not leave spots here and there?


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## Madfarmer (Nov 18, 2008)

coso said:


> Dairy goats being browsers instead of grazers. Won't your worm burdens increase with rotational grazing.
> 
> That would probably be an increased risk. It would most likely require a longer cycle time between paddocks.
> 
> Tom


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## cowboygourmet (Mar 13, 2009)

:As a matter of fact: Proper rotational grazing of goats reduces the parasite problem and is an effective tool for managing internal parasites. You never want to let the goats graze the forage down. Instead, you move them regularly to new foarage or paddock. It is then OK to let cows graze after the goats, they will clean up after the goats. :yeahthat


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

I have heard of rotational grazing in cattle as a means of reducing the parasite load as well. Give the worms a chance to die off before the pasture is used for feed again. Running chickens behind the cattle in the rotation is supposed to be very beneficial in this regard, too. But, that's from Joel Salatin who farms over 1000 acres. He lets the cows only eat down so far and then the chickens come in behind and eat the shorter stuff, pick through the cow pies, etc. But, given that goats are browsers first, I will probably focus on fencing out the woods before fencing the pasture and trying to become an expert grass farmer... And since worms and cocci don't climb trees...


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## cowboygourmet (Mar 13, 2009)

:biggrin That brings up another good area of discusion. Managing browse !!! Yes, worms and cocci do not climb trees as you said. However, manageing browse can be even more difficult than forage simple because it takes longer for browse to grow back especially if you are careless and let it get grazed down too much


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## Douger (Feb 1, 2009)

i have read on the moving grazing for goats it the let the grass grow past 6 inches before putting the goats in and when it gets past 3 inches move them on to the next pasture it is supposed to cut back on worms and healthier goats as well


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## Jacquelynn (Dec 2, 2008)

I thought I'd clarify my other post that was made at night right after I got home. Not a time when the weels in my head turn completely! :lol I believe that rotational grazing is great! Definately the way to go. I am working this year putting in electric fence for smaller pastures so we will rotate every 2-3 days. I am also working on forage quality. However, to go completely grass you have to have great forage and know how to manage your pasture. It is allot different managing beef or closer to wild type animals than dairy. I think it also makes a difference where you live, the grass in Oregon is amazing compared to OK!!  Also, I noticed someone mentioned "seasonal grass-based dairy". Right there is one of my problems! I direct sale and can't just do it seasonally, my reason for beleiving I'll never get completely off grain. But I am sure going to get as close as possible.
And, even if you don't want to quit grain, grass is a great way to cut costs and up your animal health. It is just more natural. And with proper management and rotations you can get allot more out of your pasture than otherwise.
Jacquelynn :cool


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## cowboygourmet (Mar 13, 2009)

Very good Douger, you are so right because goats pick up the parasites when they graze grass that is shorter than 3 inches. If you let the forage get tall, even like pearl millet that might get 3 to 4 feet tall, you can rest assured that the parasite problem will be minimized. dance: :biggrin


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## Douger (Feb 1, 2009)

and the other bonus to letting the grass grow high is letting it seed it holds more protein then the stem and leaf which would help cut way back on grain feeding for dairy I'm right now working on fencing off my neighbor's mountain sides to Start rotating and it benefits us both i have more garzing areas and they don't have to worry about weed eating the mountain sides in fear of snakes moving in close to are houses


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

So, with rotating pastures frequently, what do you all do about shelter? I cannot let my goats be on strictly pasture during the summer due to the extreme heat here in Va. In the winter, there would be nothing to break the wind or rain. Do you move the shelters as you move the goats and cows, or build shelters in each pasture?
Anita


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## Douger (Feb 1, 2009)

myself i have built more of a open barn with just the 3 sides and roof for the other pasture's and when the weather gets ready to turn bad i move them to my main barn where they hold out for the winter


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## cowboygourmet (Mar 13, 2009)

I have some portable shelters that are really easy to move and they just go with the goats.


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## megan (Nov 10, 2008)

just a thought here...
I can't speak from personal experience but a friend tells me that in the summer when her goats are just on grass she can't stand the taste of their milk. she says it tastes "grassy" to her and if she doesn't give grain to her goats she can't drink the milk. 
this might be something to consider too if it is true.


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## Narrow Chance (Oct 29, 2007)

I have rotated graze grass for my milking does for a couple of years now. I've not read up on it much.. I just know it works for me.
I used to plant rye grass in the winter but have found in the last several years that deer plot seed works best for me. There's more 'stuff' in it that goats really like.. especially the kale and oats.
I have 3 paddocks, if you will.. with shelters. My bucks have a larger lot than the other two.. but I only plant half of thier lot as it is to large and a waste of grass for just the couple bucks I have.
My does and yearlings all share a field with thier own large shed. The does come in to milk in the mornings.. get thier grain, then back out in field.. which has some deer plot planted in an area.. but they keep that pretty much eat down. They get alfalfa pellets and free choice hay. At the evening milking, after removed from the stand.. they are turned into a lot to browse the grass. About the time chores are finished.. they are full and they return to thier field and shed area. 
About this time of year.. I will turn them in for about half of the day.. to eat more of the grass as the warm weather will eventually kill the grass. 
For summer graze.. I plant brown top millet. Among that.. there are several varieties of grass that has strayed into the lots.. and they eat that also. It's just a lul between both grasses that get me.. I just wish there was a third grass or graze that I could provide for them between the dying of the winter grass and the grazability of the summer grass.
As for the taste of the milk.. I can't tell a difference.
Since I can afford to get alfalfa hay.. even if I could find it.. this has worked well for us.
I know one thing.. my girls almost kill to get into those 'deer plot lots... lol There's kale, some sort of running peas, ryegrass, oats, red clover..and another delicacy.. but it behooves me what it is.. I just know they love it.


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## cowboygourmet (Mar 13, 2009)

Have you ever thought of planting some Pearl Millet, It provides more forage than the brown top and last longer? 
As for the taste of milk when the goats are on grass or forage only, you should not be able to tell much difference unless the goats are eating wild onion, or bitterweed. dance:


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## Madfarmer (Nov 18, 2008)

After a lot of unsuccessful searching, I finally found a link to a good forage seed company. It's Adams-Brisco Seed Co. in Georgia. Lots of good forage blends for both Spring & Fall planting.

Tom


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## Narrow Chance (Oct 29, 2007)

cowboygourmet said:


> Have you ever thought of planting some Pearl Millet, It provides more forage than the brown top and last longer?
> As for the taste of milk when the goats are on grass or forage only, you should not be able to tell much difference unless the goats are eating wild onion, or bitterweed. dance:


I've tried the Pearl and the Brown top.. I sort of let the girls decide which they like.. they seem to browse/graze the brown best and our soil seems to grow the brown best. Not sure why unless it's the low lime. We have to put at least a ton/acre a year on our fields to get rye to grow. You wouldn't think living by a creek but that is what the soil sample always says.

I can't tell the difference in the taste of the milk on any of our grass, summer or winter. Guess it would depend alot on if they got just grass, but with the hay/alfafla/grain.. there's just not that much difference.

Very good thread and discussion... we sometimes don't see the forest for the trees.


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## cowboygourmet (Mar 13, 2009)

How much do you let the millet grow before you graze it? Is it at least 12 inches tall? Just wondering if you see much difference in the growth rate of the brown versus the pearl after it gets 6 or 8 inches tall? :yeahthat


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## Narrow Chance (Oct 29, 2007)

Me nor my girls can stand to wait till it gets 12 inches tall. The smaller it is.. the more tender. 
I actually plant a plot in the doe field.. which is about an acre field.. and I plant a few disc wide plots. They browse it as soon as it comes up.. but there are only 16 or so does in that field. They actually don't know it's not part of the field until it gets about 4 or 5 inches tall.. they are lazy. 

It's funny to see them eat the tops down..and then see shoots come up inside the eaten part. They eventually never eat it all and it does go to seed, depending on the rain we get.

The holding lots and buck pen that now have the deer plot food, I sort of rotate the bucks back and forth and the weaning doelings. 
In my kid pen.. I only plant a strip.. as it is wasted and gives them more room to play, play, play. When it starts to get high.. I just throw my does in for a few hours.. and it's knocked down.


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## cowboygourmet (Mar 13, 2009)

Sounds like you have a good handle on the grazing and are doing all you can with the tools at your disposal. Keep up the good work and just remember to have fun!!!! :lol :yeahthat


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