# Lump on jaw. Please assist (pics added)



## Legend Hills (May 29, 2008)

I bought a lamancha buck kid. Born in March. Dam raised and just pulled when I got him. The breeder only then noticed the night before that this kid had a lump on his jaw. I've been dosing him with Pen-a ever since I brought him home almost four weeks ago. The size of the lump has decreased but it is still stubbornly there. It feels a bit hard in the middle of it. 

Started out with 2cc of Pen-a. It was getting better. I stopped the dose prematurely and it got bigger than ever (span of about 3 days) I put him back on at a 3cc dose. This was about 2 1/2 weeks ago. I'm getting very tired of this. He is getting so extremely sore of shots. (I don't blame him) I'm worried. 

What can this be? What else can I do for him? I'll be calling the vet if we can't figure this out. Thanks.

Kim


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## Legend Hills (May 29, 2008)

*Re: Lump on jaw. Please assist*

I forgot to add his current temp is 101.8. The temp of a youngster comparable in age that is getting a little more exercise (larger yard instead of quarantine pen) is 102.2. Not that much of a difference. And it is a cool day.

P.S I'm thinking it might be a throat gland? It rests under the right side of the jaw toward the back joint. (Hope that makes sense.)

Am I giving the wrong antibiotic? Wrong dose? I tried opening his mouth just then and I couldn't really see in there as he was moving around too much.

Should I call a vet?


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## IXEL (May 17, 2010)

*Re: Lump on jaw. Please assist*

I don't know, but I would call the vet to asses the lump. The only mouth problem we have had here was related to mycosis, awfully wicked stuff! (He was a 3 week old Boer baby weather and was being dam raised. It started with a big split lip, we thought he had just been kicked in the face, so we treated it as usual, nothing else was wrong. But the next day his mouth started to stink really bad, not like the stink it should be, but like rotting flesh. So I opened up his mouth and it was almost black! So we took him into the vets and had an x-ray taken of it. It turned out that this condition he had was eating away at the bone in his face. So we sent pictures and samples to WSU, they had no idea what it was, except that it was propably related to mycosis. We had him put down, no reason letting a poor soul suffer. So when we got home I checked the does udder and the other kids, nothing wrong with them. But I did go ahead and disinfect the udder for the next couple weeks. Although about 1 week later one of the brothers to the kid that we had put down started doing the same thing. So we brought him in the the vets, luckily he was not to far along at all and we were able with a round of antibiotics.) Sorry for the long story, I just found it might be relevent. But I do not think he has anything like this going on at all, but I would get it looked at.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Lump on jaw. Please assist*

Get him off the antibiotic, no matter what it turns out to be, pennicillin is rarely going to do any good at all....and you using it like this, guessing....is exactly why there is so much resistance to it.

Can you snap a photo?

Salivary glands run down and over the jaw you can even feel these little 'tubes' over your own jaw. Bloodlines can have weakness in them, that cause them to get cysts, for the fluid in them to be thick for the tube to clog and form a cyst and for the cyst to burst for saliva to pool under the skin of the goat making huge chipmunk swellings.

Try benedryl, if the cysts go down, on people dosages every 6 hours, you know it is salivary cysts. He is too young for CL.

Not sure how a vet can help, I would certainly take treatment of anykind with a huge grain of salt...in fact I would counsel you to take him back to the breeder for her to get the info on her dime, you getting him back only if your satisfied with the diagnosis and treatment. A buck should be 100%. Otherwise he would be a wether  Vicki


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

*Re: Lump on jaw. Please assist*

Boy do I ever agree with Vicki on this one. I wouldn't keep this buck myself


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## Legend Hills (May 29, 2008)

*Re: Lump on jaw. Please assist*

Thankfully the breeder has offered to replace at no cost. The round trip for a replacement though would not be fun. Possible though.

Yes I can snap a photo. I'll post it here when I have it.

If this were your goat, would you return or try the benedryl first? What dosage of benedryl?

Thank you.

Kim

Here are the pictures. He wasn't very cooperative. The lump is much smaller now so is much harder to see.


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## Legend Hills (May 29, 2008)

Update:

I just mailed the breeder with an exchange. He really is a very honest well-known breeder and goat judge in this area. I am 100% sure that this was not intentional. I appreciate his offer to exchange if needed as well. It is too bad because I've gotten quite attached to him since he's been here. 

I must do what is best for the herd. Not fun.

Kim


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Kim can you just have a vet take a look so you have proof if needed as to what it is? Also if he was at my place I would shave the area and have a real good look see if their is a head on it, as could just be a sticker in there.


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

It's definitely in the right location to be a salivary cyst. I have a doe with one. It feels kind of like a bubble under the skin, but firm. You can massage it and it shrinks.


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## Bernice (Apr 2, 2009)

If I understand this correctly Kim; the breeder noticed this lump the night before you were to come and purchase him? Did this breeder offer any explanations for the lump? It's possible it's a salivary cyst....Vicki's suggestion for using the benedryl and the size of the lump should give you a fair idea as to if it's a cyst or not. 
How valuable to your breeding program are the genetics behind this buck? Were the genetics important enough to purchase him despite the lump problem? Because if you call a vet, now you are going to have a vet bill to pay to find out what this is. And....if you do have a vet check him make sure he/she draws fluid out of the lump. And it's your dime, not the breeder's. I too agree with Vicki. My humble opinion is to take him back to the breeder and have the breeder sort it out. Hope this works out for you Kim.


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## Legend Hills (May 29, 2008)

Thank you all. If it were just a sticker I would think it would have worked itself out by now? It's been a month since we got him. Good thing I haven't registered him yet. Is having salivary cysts a life-long problem. If yes, is it hereditary?

Kim


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

In my very limited experience, if it's a salivary cyst, it will never go away. It may vary in size from time to time, but that's about it. My doe with one is not bothered by it at all. I know that Vicki had a doe with a salivary cyst that she eventually had to stop showing, but I don't believe that she culled her. Hopefully, she'll chime in here soon.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Yes several on here have seen Birdy, I don't allow photos of her taken because of it. So when folks are here snapping photos of feeders and the like, they all get the same thing...Don't have Birdy in any photos OR ME  I have never had a salivary cyst on a goat before, and Birdy was my first, we tried everything including daily antihistamines to keep her fluids running through the glands, it kept her so sedated I worried about her long term health. She would come to be milked and then immediately go lay down and sleep like the trip to and from the milkstand exhausted her. The surgery was not going to happen, way to expensive and way to invasive without any real prognosis I was happy with. Via ultrasound her glands are blown apart, like a leaky waterhose, so her saliva pools under her skin, at first she looked like she had CL, except the cysts were soft, then when the cysts blew, from this time of year where the fluid is pooled under the skin of her jaw in big handful size lumps (lumps really aren't the word, she looks like a chipmunk with nuts packed in their pouch). Off all the meds she is fine, other than having these she is perfectly normal, and still perfectly beautiful. No way could I have taken her into public now or with the cysts, the rumor mill would be flying with "lonesome doe has CL", it's bad enough having a kid with a subq injection site.

So no, for me, I wouldn't do this all again. With lots of son out there and some daughters, she has no kids with this. I have one daughter of hers here and she is fine also. It's one thing to have something like this on a doe, it is a whole nother thing to have a buck with a problem like this (and we don't even know what the problem is because it's too far back on the jaw bone for it to be a salivary cyst, you can see with the head stretched out that little uneven place on the jaw bone, that is where the salivary gland runs over the jaw bone....futher back toward the joint or under the jaw would be lymph nodes. Salivary glands are midline on the jawbone, you can feel yours going over your jaw, then connect right next to the windpipe to the lymph nodes that drain the sinus and front of the head. 

And be warned, asspirating a salivary cyst does weaken the cyst at that point, and if a cyst breaks at the point of the skin, the doe can easily dehydrate because of fluid leaking outside the doe. If a cyst is going to burst, how Birdy's did was best because she doesn't dehydrate from it. She also has never gotten and infection, thank goodness, which is why most surgeries are performed on valuable animals. I think Birdy has done so well because we have not done anything invasive to her to make it worse. Just drugs, which in reality didn't work anyway  OK that is all I know about salivary cysts  LOL Vicki


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## Legend Hills (May 29, 2008)

Glad to hear of your experience with Birdy. That comforts me because we've decided to keep him afterall. We stopped giving the Pen-a a least a week ago I believe. No change. Not bigger at least. If anything maybe a tiny bit smaller. Still there though but doesn't seem to bother him at all.

Now on to my next barnyard calamity, one of my favorite goats has cocci bad. Yesterday was first dose of Corid treatment. Will give again for five days. *sigh* She looks like a skeleton. Boy she went down hill fast. Yicks! Dewormed her and everyone else on the 4th. She was getting skinnier then. Guess she had cocci as well. 

Treated everyone else with Corid too, even the boys.


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## Theresa (Oct 26, 2007)

Corid will not treat cocci if I remember correctly. It only prevents it. You need to use a sulfa for treatment and then can use the corrid for prevention.
Theresa


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

It does treat it, it's just not fast acting so not optimal for an active problem.


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## Legend Hills (May 29, 2008)

What would you recommend I use for treatment then if CORID doesn't act quickly enough? 

Kim


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## Lynn_Theesfeld (Feb 21, 2010)

http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,9125.0.html


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## Legend Hills (May 29, 2008)

Thank you Lynn.


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