# foot, contracted tendon?



## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

Buckling born 2 hrs ago can't stand, is this what all y'all talk about as a contracted tendon that he'll grow out of with a little splinting? Its the bent one :duh that won't straighten out, the straight one works fine.

Have any of you EVER had a long term problem from a kid with this?


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## Horsehair Braider (Mar 11, 2011)

Mine always straightened out after about two weeks or so. That might need some help. It looks pretty tight.


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

I can't unbend it and take the pic LOL... need that trained octopus with the extra hands to help me 

But it will unbend about halfway, maybe a little more


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

That is pretty tight. I would probably splint it. I had one that was bad enough he walked on the pastern, but it would straighten if I straightened it. His got better on its own in 3 days.


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

Another pic, do you see a straight leg like this with the contracted tendon? He acts like the whole leg doesn't work. I can bend the leg at the hock, but he cries out.

I splinted only the pastern with toilet paper tube cut lengthwise & wraps 2x around his little leg, then lots of paper tape. I didn't want to use vet wrap since dam is on monster autolick and about eating the barn. <g>

FWIW, the kids are good sized for small FF dam, day 143 surprise but seem full term, birth was easy, mom is great FF! I mean day 143 full term, teeth are shaped but still covered in pink, not out, both have good suck etc.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Try using a toilet paper roll to splint it. I think it helps them get better faster. I never had a kid who didn't recover completely from a contracted tendon. And unfortunately we have had quite a few with them.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

We posted at the same time! Wow. I never had one with that straight leg thing going on with the contracted tendon. I still say splint it, bo-se, and some Physical therapy. Massaging and helping him to straighten it as much as possible.


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

That was funny both of us posting toilet paper tube at the same time LOL. His slightly bigger sister is the picture of vigor and health, the dam too. Any ideas what causes this?


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Selenium deficiency can cause it.


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## Horsehair Braider (Mar 11, 2011)

OK, I'll say this just for the practicality. And of course I do not know your situation so maybe this does not apply. 

You might want to think twice about putting in the effort to save a buckling from a ff if he seems to be in pain. (Unless the dam was bred to some awesome stud and you are going to keep him? Again, I don't know your situation.) Anyway, I personally would have to think hard about keeping such a buckling. Are you simply going to put him through a lot of pain, only to not keep him anyway? It's possible he would be better off going to that great goat pen in the sky, at least it might be more comfortable for him. Now, if he is your future stud, OK, that is different. This is just something I ask myself: am I just torturing an animal because *I* would feel bad if it died, or is there some purpose here? If the buckling is crying in pain, I personally might hesitate to try and work with him. There is no point in torturing him, but your situation might be different. I hope this perspective does not offend you.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

The "contracted tendons" I've seen were in the front legs, but I'm guessing the back legs could possibly be effected like that. If he stands, nurses fine, he may grow out of it. Some physical therapy may help.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Selenium deficiency causes this. It is not at all painful for them with gentle physical therapy. I have had my share of helping goats out and this is not debilitating. Now a CNS caused problem is different and then yes humanely take care of the problem. Nigerians are often wethered and bought as companion animals, so his life does not need to be ended so quickly.
Tam


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

No offense at all Jacquee!

The same thought did cross my mind, that was part of why I asked if any one has ever had lingering problems from this, as he has 2 strikes against him already being out of FF and having a back leg problem which from the private emails I got today, some suspect that at least the tendency for it might run in some lines. Since my does are very closely related, and this is the 1st time I've seen it, I question that, but maybe. Maybe that just a sensitivity for selenium levels, but I haven't had other issues that say "seleniuim" and they get pretty good supplementation, so who knows... but I only want bucks from the picture of health and vigor.

So he's got 2 strikes against him already as a buck.

On the plus side, His FF dam is a very nice one, the only daughter of my all time fav doe to milk who was killed last summer. She had the most wonderful udder and teats! His sire is kind of special, an old guy at this point, son of the largest MM producing doe that I've ever heard of. If FF dam were his only issue, I'd keep him intact for as long as possible before I decided, and see how he was developing and her udder was doing. She was not uddered up very large before kidding, so I sure hope she gets in gear and is truly her mother's daughter.

I'll do what I reasonably can for him and see if he's making any progress, but no one wants a buck that started out with serious problems, and I don't have the resources right now to go to extremes for a wether. He's very pretty, sort of flashy, so if he can fix himself with basic good but not extreme care, he should have an easy time finding a pet wether home. Those appearance things aren't at all important to me in dairy stock, but it does make it easier for wethers if they are pretty boys. <g>

I will consider putting him down if he's in pain or suffering and not getting better.

Do you usually see pretty quick progress? Not all better instantly, but progress.

Have you seen some so tight that they just don't straighten out? Or with other concurrent same leg issues?


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Yes, a flashy buckling/wether will go quickly as a pet or even a herd sire, at least around here.
As for the progress of recovery, it can be painstakingly slow. Up to two weeks which is a long time for a baby goat to have trouble getting around. Of course sometimes it is only a few days. Extra selenium has made it to where this doesn't happen nearly as often,(back in the day, almost every kid I had was born with contracted tendons) but if they are born with contracted tendons, giving sel/vit E doesn't seem to get them better any faster.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

I've never known one not to get over it. I know Nancy had one that was extreme ( in the knees, not just pastern, she was folded all the way up) and she ended up ok. Her name is boots because of the splints she wore.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

You're not talking about me, Nancy, and my doe Boots, are you? My Boots never had problems. LOL. I'm just a little confused now.


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

"Boots" that's cute.

Well the little guy is spunky and up on 3 legs and nursing today, so I guess he gets a chance. I'll do some PT on him as I'd spend time handling him anyway, but can't put in more than that right now, a lot is up to him.

If you are buck shopping, is this something you ever ask about? I'd disclose he was born with an issue, but that's just me, does any one think it matters? It sounds like all y'all mostly get full recovery and see it as a nutrition issue more than genetic?

I have to say that all the kids by this old man buck this year are extremely vigorous in Chi <g> that Life Force...

And the old guy, ok he was 7yo but that's pretty old for a buck and he passed semen collection standards (yes, he's in my tank now too) and got every doe pregnant, even the one he only bred one time after not being used for year, and the one that he bred after 3 hr truck ride home from theoretically being wiped out at AI collection! So this is Some Stuff he's got LOL!


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## todog (Dec 10, 2011)

Try soaking his rear legs in warm Epsom salts water and manipulating that leg while in the water. I was able to save one doing that. I just used a 5 gallon bucket. Epsom salts is cheap. I did it twice a day but yours may need more. Good luck.


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

Good idea Darlene. I'll have to figure out if that fits in the line of "reasonable" that I'm trying to draw here, I think at least trying it can count as general handling and getting used to weird stuff humans do. Maybe I'll try it with others just as a temperament comparison experiment, LOL. Since of course we try to kill our goats with getting them wet for baths etc LOL...

Anyone else using Epsom salts, don't pour it down the drain afterwards, dilute it more and its good for many gardens. YMMV if you haven't done a soil test, I would suspect you in the dry, alkaline South might not get the same benefit from it as we do here where Mg is one that leaches too easily here.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

fmg said:


> You're not talking about me, Nancy, and my doe Boots, are you? My Boots never had problems. LOL. I'm just a little confused now.


Haha, no, Nancy Shirley  Sorry for the confusion!


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## todog (Dec 10, 2011)

By all means dilute it and put it on your pepper plants.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

If I was buying a buck, and he had ONE kid out of a bunch of them with this problem, I wouldn't really bat an eye at buying him, but maybe keep it in mind and watch future kids. If he had a bunch of them, I still might consider him, if that herd had kids from other bucks with the same problems, too, since it'd probably be a management issue. Weird things crop up now and then, and it doesn't necessarily mean it had anything to do with the bucks and does producing it.


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

This buckling's sire is an old guy, no problems like this before, I know a lot of his kids and owners of dams who used him previously. So I'm not worried about the buck, but rather the buckling himself, if he does recover, is it still a congenital weakness that should be disclosed? I would want to know if I was buying a buck/ling, so I will be up front about it even if he seems to fully recover. More likely he will be wethered.

At 7 days now, he's a lot better but far from over it. He's barely starting to use the leg, but collapses on it a lot, mostly dangles it and gets around 3 legged style 

On the positive side, he's gaining weight, feeding himself & able to nurse, and is even starting to bounce and play, although he falls all the time. These are 2 especially happy kids out of this doe! They remind me of their goofy granddam.

I feel sort of badly cuz I've given him very good care, but not everything possible like I have with some here. Some of you would say that's reasonable LOL. Right now, I don't have the time or resources that I've had at some times to give. He gets played with at least 4-5x day, and gets a little physical therapy then, exercising the leg in the proper motion, forcing him to bear some weight on it and push against my hand as I hold him up. I change the tape 2x/day as he pees on it all the time when he's dangling it the foot goes under his belly.

So progress, but not "well"... still in limbo, ugh.

FF dam's milk has been slow to come in too... finally really increasing yday into today as the first day she has truly excess milk beyond what the kids are taking. Maybe that goes along with a nutritional cause, but then why only her? The doeling is the picture of vigor and health. 

So more questions than answers....


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## Horsehair Braider (Mar 11, 2011)

Sometimes things just happen and you don't know why. A lot of times we end up just guessing why something happened, and I bet that a lot of times we guess wrong. We'll just never know. 

For me, personally, I would hesitate to use him, because I would not know if it were genetic or not. I have very few goats, not a lot of room and not a lot of time or money to experiment. For me, personally, he would not be the best buy I could find. Others may differ. 

Glad to hear he is doing better, and I hope he recovers from it. Also glad to hear his sister is doing so well, and his dam. That's good news.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

I wouldn't personally keep him as a breeding buck either, because you just don't know if it is a genetic issue. If the leg issue is not a genetic issue, it might still be a genetic predisposition to mineral issues, which you also wouldn't want. I had a buckling I had been considering keeping this year, it was between him and another. I checked them both at birth, teats, testicles, etc. A few weeks later, I discovered the first buckling had one testicle smaller than the other. I tend to think that he might have had an injury, but he became a wether after that. There are lots of bucks in the world, so I don't see a reason to keep one like that. The only way I would even consider using something like that is maybe if the doe was some really super doe and say she died or couldn't produce any more...maybe, possibly I would give it a try.


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

Yes, that's the way I'm leaning too Nancy. He's a pretty boy, has huge teats LOL from both parents, that's a real asset amoung others to bring to MM's, but... He's also pet flashy and should be able to find a good wether home. He continues to do better every day, but more on 3 legs than really using this one. I'm starting to be concerned about that now, the other leg is getting very muscular and this on is still newborn thin. He's such a happy guy, its really something, bounces and plays, mostly on 3 legs...


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