# I'm feeling blue....



## kuwaha

I just love blue cheeses, especially the soft creamy ones. I bought a little slab of blue from the grocery store today to use as my inoculant and then went perusing DGI for recipes. I came across this thread http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,13830.0.html
but it kind of started in the middle. So....
if I make a blue clabbered cheese, could you give me the exact steps for it please? (I am a bear of little brain so simple steps are appreciated  )
Or any other really good blue cheeses??
Thank you!!


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## linuxboy

you want one with rennet or without?


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## kuwaha

Yes please 
Which ever one works best and tastes best - thanks!!!!


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## linuxboy

They're all good, just different . I'll post a few later tonight, have to go edumacate the non-goat kiddos.


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## MF-Alpines

I will be interested in this, too. Thanks.


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## linuxboy

Been working on them for the last hour, but promised someone I'd put up a tvorog recipe first


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## kuwaha

ooh you're wonderful Pav - my new cultures/molds come in today so tomorrow shall be fun time


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## linuxboy

Okay, finished one. Here's the general overview of blues.

http://www.wacheese.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=70

Putting up the individual recipes next


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## linuxboy

And here's one on Stilton
http://www.wacheese.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=71

And one on clabbered blue
http://www.wacheese.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=72

One article on rennet and another one on starter cultures and then I can get back to finishing up the blue recipes. Gorgonzola is next.


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## NubianSoaps.com

Thanks Pav...boy I sure do hope that those using all this free info you are giving know how much most folks pay to learn this stuff from real artisan cheese makers like you, just in airfare alone....hope some gifts are going your way...cash would be good????  Vicki


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## linuxboy

Baby steps . Right now, I want to have a good resource for normal folks who just want to make something tasty, or for the farmers who have too much milk, or for people who are into slow food/local food and want to make some basic cheeses at home. I think that sort of information should be free for those people. Don't get me wrong, I'm about one of the most extreme capitalists I know, but I look at the larger picture. I think one of the only ways we as a species can hope to move forward is for as many people as possible to retain a connection to our farms, to our food, and the animals that are our partners in survival. Without that connection, the realities of everyday life with its challenges and victories become disconnected with that part of us that can truly feel and understand. Without the earthy realities of struggle and individual success, young people don't learn lessons to prepare them for the cruelty of the world, families succumb to mindless chatter of talking heads, and life is spent chasing the artificial constructs of human minds instead of better barns for goats . 

I feel like I know so many people here already, even though I've met only a few in real life, and that's because y'all can read what I just wrote and understand what I mean. Most everyone else just gives me blank stares. LOL. 

I figure if I can do a little to make sure normal folks have a fighting chance, I should. If my momma taught me something, it's that we can't win hearts and minds with bad food.

I'm working on all sorts of stuff in the background that takes some more time and will probably cost something when I'm done... like online learning classes with video and voice snippets, industrial-size recipes that are more detailed and scaled for commercial use, templates for HACCP and product recall action plans, etc. Doesn't take me that long to crank out the content, been making good progress lately. Thanks for the support .


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## buckrun

Thank you for that post Pav and you are so right! So right!

Congrats on getting a kitchen settled for the guild! :biggrin

What makes you think any of us are normal? I know you were trying to say ignorant :rofl

Thanks for sharing.


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## kuwaha

wow, thank you Pav!!! I really do appreciate you (and others) sharing your knowledge so freely 

Got a question about using store bought blue cheese for the p.roqueforti - if the recipe requires 1/8 tsp how much of the cheese do I use?


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## linuxboy

One good size cube with a rich vein running through it. Usually about a 2" cube will do. Use a sterilized knife and smush it in the milk really well and add a little yeast extract if you have it to give the blue mold an initial food boost. Adding to milk works best, so if you're making a clabbered blue and can add the mold to the milk and let that coagulate, it will give you the fastest and most even growth. Oh and be picky about the blue cheese, some are treated with anti-mold treatment and the preservative will kill the mold. It's not always labeled, either. I've had that happen.


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## buckrun

Can you recommend a brand that does not use the mold inhibitor?
Thank you.


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## linuxboy

It doesn't happen too often. All the raw milk blues or artisan blues have recultured for me. Rogue Creamery, Pt Reyes, imported Roquefort and Stilton, Danish blues, Roth Kase's buttermilk blue, Maytag blue, etc all worked well. Cheap blue crumbles are more hit and miss, as are repackaged cheeses that are individually wrapped. I think some cheese vendors will cut and try to preserve the shelf life cut pieces by dunking them in something. I've never had that issue from a fresh slice cut from a big wheel. You could even ask for a piece with a lot of veining.


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## linuxboy

Coagulant article up, and mostly done. One key section left with a summary table on amounts for various styles of cheese.

http://www.wacheese.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=73


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## buckrun

Pav

Will you PM me your mailing address? I think you NEED a nice handmade stoneware mug to drink your tea or coffee from. Please allow me the pleasure of sending you one. I am one of those people who have a flow chart of personal debt in their head. Your line is screaming red. It would give me great pleasure to thank you for the help you have given. 
Thanks
Lee

ps-Besides it's good advertising :biggrin


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## Ozark Lady

Thanks Lee,
I saved cream and had it going in the blender, I picked elderberries and sat here half the night or more, picking them off the stems. Today, I went shopping for yogurt culture, looking for wine yeast, and rennet etc. All I could find for rennet was junket, so that wasn't much help. I finally got my butter to make, not enough to matter but enough to get a system down. Maybe I qualify as one of those "idiots" who want to eat well, but eat stuff that is grown and processed here.

Tonight I just walked inside from spraying the garden! Whew!
I really appreciate that you have already done alot of the work for us, since there just isn't enough hours in the day to tend to everything! Experimenting really puts me behind in the chores, ya know?

I found blue cheese crumbles, and Danish blue cheese while looking today.
Hey goat milk cheese chevre is $4.99 per ounce locally. Yes, per ounce....
Now I feel like a gourmet, and not just like a run to death homesteader! ha ha Thanks.

Now to find someone to explain elderberry wine! Wine and cheese... hmm?
Oops gotta go milk, the girls are calling me.


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## linuxboy

Thanks, Lee . I love your work.

MaryAnn, I make wine, what kind of help do you need?


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## Ozark Lady

I have the elderberries, and that is as close to making wine as I have ever been. I read how to make wine, and they are doing things, that I don't even know what they are doing. Apparently a fancy word for pouring it from one container to another.
I bake bread, and I am experimenting with wild yeasts from elderberries, plums, blueberries, and the like. Can I use any of these yeasts for wine?
I am not sure what equipment would be considered 'necessary' in comparison to 'nice to have'.
I have made soft cheese, mozarella, yogurt and buttermilk before, wine I have never made.
I looked at the health benefits of wine, as well as, of elderberries and thought, why not combine the two benefits.
So, I need wine making for dummies. The closest to wine making as I have ever been is I took a wine serving course once! Oops! Well, I did learn the names of some.
Wine is good for me, I just need to learn how to make it, and how to use it, other than in cooking, but even in cooking, I think that I would get health benefits.
Beyond juicing the berries, which I have to do for syrup, jam and jelly anyhow, I don't know where to start. 
What does elderberry wine taste like? I assume it is a red wine?


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## linuxboy

Read Jack Keller's recent article on elderberry wine

http://www.winemakermag.com/stories/issue/article/issues/109-april-may-2009/841-elderberry-wine

It's a good start.

Transferring from a primary fermentation vessel to a secondary (aka racking) is how you separate the must from any lees that are on the bottom. It's just a way to clarify the wine and reduce the solids in it so that the solids don't cause off flavors.

The yeast selection for a wine as well as the fermentation and aging temperatures have a lot to do with the wine flavor and quality. In terms of wild yeasts, yes they will ferment the juice, but it's hard to tell what kind of yeasts are present, and if they are suitable. I would use a commercial yeast.

Necessary equipment is a vessel to contain the juice, and a way to keep the oxygen out. A 5 gal water jug or wine carboy is useful for the vessel and an airlock works well to keep oxygen out. The rest are just nice to have... like a secondary carboy. You may also want to get some metabisulphite to kill off any wild yeasts and bacteria, if you want to ensure quality.

A basic wine process is to take the juice, make up the base recipe, and add it all to the carboy. Then add yeast, put an airlock on top of the carboy, and let it ferment. After it finished fermenting, transfer to another container to separate out the lees on the bottom, and let it age in a cool, dark place, with the airlock on top filled with glycerin so it doesn't evaporate. After 3-12 months, bottle and enjoy. There's all sorts of more fancy stuff you can do, but that's the gist of it.

Elderberry wine tastes like a fragrant, somewhat astringent red wine. Not unpleasant, but it is a fruit wine, so it's not exactly like a commercial wine from grapes that's been in an oak barrel.


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## Ozark Lady

Thanks, I have only done first picking on one patch of elderberries, and haven't put a dent in them. And I have a gallon of de-stemmed berries.

I love wine for cooking, and even some soft cheeses with wine that was incorporated, I suppose it was soaked in it, like brining.
My hubby is installing a small refrigerator for my cheese making.

I have a question, sort of about cheese.
When I was a kid, you could buy a potato chip dip and it was bleu cheese. It had sort of a blue cast to it, and it tasted like blue cheese. I loved that dip, do you have a clue how to make it? I assume first you would make bleu cheese, and then you would blend some in... in.. in what sour cream, cream cheese, a blend? I bought a book today on using cheese, and I have a book on cheese making on order from Amazon. But, I know the recipes won't be like yours, and I can't ask questions of a book. I had the book, years ago, it is a replacement book.
Thank you so very much. I am off to check out the link!


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## linuxboy

Do you remember the brand of the cheese dip? I have some commercial dip recipes, but they use additives and stabilizers. At home, you can make a good dip by mixing together blue cheese, cream cheese, and sour cream, along with salt and pepper. If I knew who made the one you like, I could reverse engineer their process and approximate the ingredients for you.

Forgot to mention one thing about the wine, which is you could ferment initially in a bucket while the elderberries lose their liquid, but you do need to move it to a controlled system after the rapid initial fermentation completes.


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## Ozark Lady

I believe the Bleu cheese dip was Kraft, Bleu Cheese, which I can't find anymore, it came in a light weight aluminum container. That is how long ago it was.
I notice locally all the dips are ranch, french onion, or bacon that is all of the choices. Oh and cheese and bean dip on the chip rack.
It had a different texture than todays dips, it was... moister? It didn't gel and sit up high like the dips you get now. 
You know how really soft batter is kind of springy? Well it was that kind of texture.

I bought a 7 gallon plasic food grade tub with a lid to use to ferment cabbage into sauerkraut, but bugs ate my cabbage, so I am starting over there. But, I bet that would work to ferment the berries! And it does have a lid, not with a spicket, I think I will have to order things like that, and the ph tester, gravity tester etc. Can you recommend a good vendor?
I need to explain, I live in a dry county, there are no liquor stores, wine shops etc.
And obviously there is no place to get wine making supplies except online.
It is not illegal to make wine, beer, mead etc. within reason, or to purchase alcohol in Missouri, but in limited quantities, a bottle of alcohol lasts for years here, so not a problem. But, difficult to find wine making stuff.


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## kuwaha

OOh Maryann I am interested in your breadmaking experiments!! I can only eat sourdough/naturally fermented breads... maybe we should start another thread with your recipes??? I know grapes have a wonderful amount of wild yeasts that make a good bread but have yet to try it... so much to learn!


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## Ozark Lady

I am learning too. I found a website and they were capturing wild yeasts, for breadmaking. I found it interesting, saved a bit of information. Now I can't find the website, no matter how I google, glad that I saved it.

Let's start a bread thread, since I want to learn salt rising, and wild yeast, as well as, get back into sourdough etc.
I enjoy baking. And am going to even try growing my own grains, so really taking it back to the basics! And this Dairy Goat Forum is a good place, because we can use the whey, and make our own buttermilk to use, and cheese to spread, even butter... and some wine with it.
Okay, getting carried away! I like to cook, guess you can tell.

Before anyone panics, I only weigh 130, so liking to cook, does not necessarily lead to weight gain! Actually poor nutrition more often leads to weight gain, since your body is hungry for... something and you keep eating looking for what you need.

Let's find health together in the animals, garden and kitchen!


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## kuwaha

If my body is hungry for .... something and all I ever want to eat is bread - what do I need ?? 
Hey I started the bread thread in Off Topic... see you there !


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## linuxboy

Hmm, with more moisture and less gelling, means it had fewer stabilizers. I would try making 4 ounces cream cheese, 1 cup of sour cream, and 6-8 ounces of blue cheese pureed together. That should be pretty close. Maybe add a little vinegar or water to make it more thin. Might need to add salt to flavor. Blue cheese and chives are really good together in a dip.

A bucket with lid would work great during the initial violent fermentation. And honestly, you don't need an airlock. There's so much CO2 produced that it forms a blanket and so long as you keep a lid over it so bugs don't get in, you'll be fine. You do need an airlock and carboy after the initial violent fermentation is done, though.

Good vendor for winemaking supplies... try Austin Homebrew http://www.austinhomebrew.com/

Prices are good, shipping is reasonable. I buy most of my stuff from the commercial winemaking stores where the vineyards and winemakers go, so I don't usually order online.

You don't absolutely need a pH tester unless you want to get it anyway, but you do need a hydrometer to test specific gravity.
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## Ozark Lady

Wow, lots of goodies there, and I am amazed that the airlocks are inexpensive, but what do they fit on? Is there a standard size? Or you just order a bottle and airlock together?
I really need to check out the links in the other thread to learn, more, more, more!

Hey, I had company today, and I served raw, homemade, goatmilk buttermilk... they absolutely loved it! So, my buttermilk culture is Good and it is just from purchased buttermilk, that I recultured to goatmilk. Of course, folks must like buttermilk in the first place to like it... which I do!

Thanks, can't wait to offer homemade cheeses to my guests, even if the guests are family! ha ha.


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## linuxboy

You put the airlock on a rubber bung/ stopper. It's a special stopper with a hole in it, and the stopper fits the mouth of the carboy. I think a 5 gal carboy takes a #6.5 stopper and a 6 gal carboy takes a #7 stopper.


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