# Alfalfa Pellets vs. Alfalfa Hay



## Liberty Alpines (Nov 14, 2007)

Which do you like better, alfalfa pellets or alfalfa hay? I have always used alfalfa hay, because I've pretty much been able to get good quality hay, my goats love it, and the breeder I first bought from used it. Would I have any good reasons to consider switching over to pellets? If so, what brand do you like? Please teach me what you've learned...Thanks!


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## baileybunch (Oct 26, 2007)

I'm not one to be "teacher" but from my experience, I like pellets better. With the hay there is so much wasted and worry over mold. I like alfalfa pellets but not all brands are alike! MFA sells pellets that are terribly dusty and we had to filter them to feed them...of three 50# bags, I had over 25 pounds of dust! :/ My doe got the snots from inhaling the dust. It was a lot of work to filter the pellets twice a day, too. I bought another bag from them once and it smelled like diesel fuel! :sniffle I like the Merri Mixer brand. Less dust. Pretty, green. No waste! That's what I like the most. No waste.


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## MysticHollowGoats (Nov 5, 2007)

I prefer pellets because there is MUCH less waste, they eat all the pellets. Alfalfa hay is about $15 per 100lb bale here and almost half ends up as bedding. Plus with the pellets I know exactly how much everyone is getting and they are much easier for me to handle. I can lift a 50lb bag if I happen to run out in the middle of the day when DH is not here to help. There is no way I could lift a 100lb bale of hay, I am only 5'2 and 109lb myself!


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## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

Here we cannot get good quality alfalfa hay. It has too large of stems, the leaves shatter and fall to the bottom of the hay feeder along with other dirt and dust and will not be eaten - thus wasted. The stems are thrown out for bedding. This makes for a very expensive product. There is also a problem getting help to unload it, store it and then it molds while stored due to our high humidity.

Alfalfa pellets on the other hand are in 50# bags and can be handled easily. I ususally buy 20 bags at a time and store them in the kitchen part of my milk barn. There is a slight problem with dust that comes from pouring into buckets that gets all over the counter . tables and ect and of course a never ending supply of bags to throw away as there are way too many to re-use. Because every pellet is eaten, there is no waste and you can measure exactly how much the goats are to eat.


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## MayLOC (Oct 26, 2007)

I have only been using alfalfa pellets a year and a half now and will never go back to hay only. I love being able to measure amounts, I love the convenience of storage and handleability--is that a word? But most of all I love the no waste feature. I have all my feeders inside shelter now and they are all the stick your head through and into the feeder types (can't get feed/manure in) and so there is absolutely no waste. 

It makes little dollar signs circle around in my head every time I see goat pens bedded down in pretty green alfalfa or pics. of hay feeders with hay falling out everywhere :crazy. 

And I love that we can get it at a mill 1.5 hours from our place in one ton sacks that we store in the shop. There are fines in ours but it is fresh green smelling and looking and they eat it all up. Ya , it's also the sun-cured 100% alfalfa.
Of course, if you ask my goats I think they will tell you they prefer the good alfalfa hay that we can get around here. However they eat all the "frosting off the cake" and then leave all the stems behind :really But they get the occassional treat of hay.


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## Truly (Oct 26, 2007)

During the summer I decided to switch to pellets. I had an immediate increase, about 10%, in milk production.

I love them for the same, no waste, reason.

For the winter I am supplementing with grass hay. When that is gone, I'll get some alfalfa grass mix to supplement with.


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## Narrow Chance (Oct 29, 2007)

I love the alfalfa hay. My girls and occasionally the bucks love it too. I have used the pellets, when I couldn't get hay. They will eat it.. but they would much prefer field grass to the pellets. Hard to get pellets here that are not half dust.
Hard to get alfalfa hay also. It's $15 a square bale.. ranging around 100#.
I was fortunate to find alfalfa/orchard grass hay in a nearby town that sells it for $95 a 850 # bale. They love that and it's not much waste and what is left.. the bucks get, what's not eaten by the bucks, the cows finish off.
I had waste also.. made me sick to see it scattered on the ground... and if it ever gets wet.. what an awful smell. 
A friend made a hay trough.. works great.. so I made one also. Holds a large hay flake from the big bales.. and there is almost no waste, except the large stakes from the hay.. that only the cows will eat. Works out good for me.. since I started feeding the uneaten hay to DH's cows.. he doesn't mind me buying alfalfa anymore. Wonder why that is??? :lol


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

Well...then there's me...gotta' be different. Kinda' :really
I feed both. I can buy very high quality Western Alfalfa at $90/ 1300-1400# bale. Not much stem at all. There's 6 in the barn right now. And supplier has over 500 about 30 min. from me. We pick up 6-8 at a time. It's fed 2 large flakes at a time, to 10 head of goats.
Living within 30 min. of a major race track and knowing the horse supplier...we get small squares-100# for $4 a bale. He's hauling it-semi loads in at a time and any bales that are sun-bleached on the outside or not perfect we get the remains. Last load he hauled...we got 25 small bales.

Also feed the alfalfa pellets, if I think the hay is not of the best quality. The goats let me know if the hay is not top quality. If hay is good quality...there's alfalfa pellets left in the feeders, lower quality and pellets are eaten. Works for us.

Along with the alfalfa, we feed a native mixed grass round bale. I roll the outer edges off and put good hay in an off the ground feeder. The goats alternate between the alfalfa and the grass hay.

:rofl The pellets I am able to get are fantastic. They come from Idaho!!! Near Tracy! Standlee pellets. 100% sun-dried Alfalfa- no additives. AND very little if any dust.

I guess I've been living right this year...cause I have in the past had some sorry alfalfa and had to feed all pellets. The steers got the bad bales.
Kaye


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## Agape Oaks (Oct 30, 2007)

My goats much prefer the alfalfa hay.....& of course being ever so slightly spoiled,they get what they wnat most of the time . I do hate the wasted hay that ends up all over the ground. Last year I tossed it over the fence to the steer we raised, but he's in the freezer now- best meat ever, probably because of all the alfalfa he ate.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

only use pellets here as is the same case as Tim no quality alfalfa hay here. plus they waste just too much


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## Qvrfullmidwife (Oct 25, 2007)

All of teh above reasons for using them apply here as well and also I want to chime in on "but not all brands are alike! "

Check the labels. Logically alfalfa pellets are only chopped, pressed dehydrated alfalfa but at least one main (nationally available) brand out there has molasses in them as well.


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## Guest (Dec 7, 2007)

It was cheaper for me to feed the alfalfa hay only. I can get (like Kaye) a 3rd cutting 3x3x8 bale of western alfalfa for $90.00. I tried feeding alfalfa pellets and grass hay for about 3 months but it wasn't cost effective for me. Alfalfa pellets are around 14 cents/ lb Alfalfa hay is about the same but the kicker for me was that I was feeding $3.00 a bale grass hay with this and they were eating and wasting it about the same rate they were the alfalfa hay. This was during the winter and they didn't have much browse, feeding in the summer probably would have made it more economical. Plus I was having dust problems with it some bags would be OK and some would not, and I have cattle to feed waste to. I am set up to handle the bigger bales so this would make a difference also.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Coso, are you in MO? I can't remember.


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## Guest (Dec 7, 2007)

Yep, Ashley. Alton, they hay I'm referring to is up between West Plains and Mountain Grove though.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

If you feed alfalfa hay you don't feed grass hay. So why if you feed alfalfa pellets would you feed grass hay. It's the same thing. The model for feeding AP this way came from a gal who could no longer lift bales of hay, so she gets AP delivered in bulk feeders, so she doesn't have to mess with the alfalfa. Other than some grain on the milkstand, the goats get no other hay or grain. Vicki


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## Beverrlly (Nov 12, 2007)

I have a question for us way up north. Do alfalfa pellets act like hay in the rumen?? 

I was always taught that ruminants (and horses) keep warm by the fermentation of browse/hay in the rumen. With our windchill of -25 today, I'd really like to keep my little goats as warm as possible. Their barn is heated--poorly heated, but still, so they have somewhere to get out of the bitter cold but I'd like them to be able to keep themselves warm so right now I'm feeding pellets and a mixed grass hay that I get cheap because its very weedy.


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## Guest (Dec 7, 2007)

Yeah, I know you have said that before Vicky. I just can't get past the thought of feeding just pellets I guess. I thought you fed some grass hay along? I've also wondered about Bevs question too, not that we get that cold in S MO but alfalfa pellets are already broken down to some extent, and I worried about the rumen factor. I know, I know it's the same thing. But it isn't in the same form.


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## Truly (Oct 26, 2007)

I too thought they needed the grass hay to keep them warm. 

So I guess we need some clarification on that.

There's no heat in my barn and it can get to -50 or below with wind chill factors here. :help


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## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

I use alfalfa pellets because the goats waste so much of the hay. The pellets are easier for me to store then the hay. And the goat likes them and they are cheaper to get then the hay.


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## Gabe (Nov 16, 2007)

My goats have grass hay available all the time and I noticed that they eat more of it if it is colder. They have not so much browse right now. I also think the natural bicarb in grass hay is higher than in alfa.
The girls have alfa pellets almost free choice.


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## old dominion (Oct 25, 2007)

I like alfalfa pellets because I can get them all the time. No searching for good hay, no waste, and no storing a large amount of hay.

We always leave grass hay in the hay rack. Like Gabe, they eat very little in the summer and much more in the winter. I also cut back on the pellets when the does are dry.


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## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

Kaye White said:


> Well...then there's me...gotta' be different. Kinda' :really
> I feed both. of the best quality. The goats let me know if the hay is not top quality. If hay is good quality...there's alfalfa pellets left in the feeders, lower quality and pellets are eaten. Works for us.
> 
> Along with the alfalfa, we feed a native mixed grass round bale. I roll the outer edges off and put good hay in an off the ground feeder. The goats alternate between the alfalfa and the grass hay.
> ...


Jinx! 
We Primarily feed 2nd cutting alfalfa hay. We have very nice hay up here in North Idaho, but it did get a bit pricey this year. A ton was selling for $140.00. First cutting we were able to get was $85/ton before the prices started rising. (We have been purchasing from folks for a long time so they didn't raise their prices much. Other folks were paying $170-200/ton)

Our Dairy goats waste too much of the first cutting (the quality is such the a lot of folks in the rest of the country would love it!), but the Boers eat every stick.

If I feel the hay isn't quite what it ought to be or we have a doe milking her brains out, then we give alfalfa pellets. We also use the Standlee pellets and they run $8.50/bag, probably better if we bought a ton at a time.

We offer the does a small round feeder (made of of an electrical wire spool with key holes cut on all four sides and a hinged plywood top...note to self, ask DS for 2 more of these!) filled with varying grass hay. Since goats are browsers, we think that it is good to offer them some variety. Many longtime breeders do this, so just copying the folks whose animals we admire!

As far as waste, there is some, but we just empty the feeders and give it to the horses who are more than happy to be the clean up crew!

Camille
P.S. Love seeing everyone's feeder ideas.


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## Ravenwood (Jan 10, 2008)

Hi everyone,

I am resurrecting this thread because I have some questions. I like the idea of feeding pellets b/c I'm 5 months preggers myself and if I can avoid hoisting square bales that sounds pretty good to me! The less waste thing is also super appealing. We have unlimited free grass hay but have to pay $$$ for alfalfa. This year our area has pretty crappy, stemmy second cut alfalfa. If I could get away with pellets and grass hay it would be a good thing.

I too was under the impression that a certain length of fibrous material was required for rumen motility and rumen function. I recall something about this from my ruminant nutrition class back in university, hence the reason that even dairy cow TMR still has longer pieces of hay in it and is chopped to x size. I seem to recall 4" being the magic # for a cow. Anyone know if this applies to goats as well? It was -52 here last week with the windchill so I hear ya on wanting to ensure that everybody's internal heaters are operating to the optimum


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## Agape Oaks (Oct 30, 2007)

Ravenwood said:


> It was -52 here last week with the windchill so I hear ya on wanting to ensure that everybody's internal heaters are operating to the optimum


Oh my gosh! I'd die.....I like the 70's we have here right now & am worrying over the 38 we're supposed to have tonight!


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Well of course it doesn't get as cold here and last year even crappy grass hay was so high that for 1 yr total my goats only got alfalfa pellets None were the worse for wear.


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## susie (Oct 28, 2007)

Well, i can't answer you're question about the fiber-- i too am under the impression that during cold weather animals stay warm with the fiber in their rumens.
I do the pellets on a measured basis with free choice hay-- orchard or local, I find they like a variety. Sometimes I feed them alfalfa hay, but really would never do this if I didn't have cows to eat the leftovers. Sometimes the goats eat the really bad hay that we use as bedding Like,I said variety.
i find this works for me, 
i also am curious about the fiber, although I'm pretty sure Vicki said AP are fiber enough.
Susie


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

So when a nutritionist figures your feeding program for you. Does a longer fiber, say a 3 inch piece of chopped hay give you a higher number in your percentage of fiber than a short chopped up fiber, say alfalfa pellets or beet pulp? Is the fiber in hay different than the fiber in beet pulp or is it all fiber? Do your goats chew up the hay as they eat or do they swallow all the stems whole? Have you seen rumen contents? Does it look like hay or does it look like lawn clippings? Vicki


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

I feed mostly alfalfa hay here. I do feed some pellets with my grain mix that I put in bowls for the goats. I would like to be able to get my pellets in bulk the way my friend does and feed mostly those. She has calf creep feeders that she fills to last a while. Her goats can free feed on them. She got them at an auction for a reasonable price. I haven't been able to find one for my main goat pen. If I were to feed all pellets in feed bowls, it would take me longer to feed so I'd know each goat got enough. Feeding hay in tubs and our long hay feeder is faster. I hate the waste, but until I can get a covered pellet feeder, hay just seems the best way to go for me. I do fed mostly pellets at the shows because it's easier to haul. The guy I buy my hay from also makes pellets, so the goats are eating the same thing and increasing the pellet to hay ration at at shows doesn't upset their rumens.


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## Sunny Daze (Jan 14, 2008)

Coso, I have the same problem. I gave alfalfa pellets plus grass hay because it just didn't seem right to not have hay to munch on! Grass hay costs 6.25 for a small square bale here...so it adds up! Next time I will have to try just the pellets I suppose. Right now they are getting alfalfa hay..$15 for a small sqaure bale!! (about 60 lbs) :help Of course they also have a nice field of winter grass right now too!


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## Ravenwood (Jan 10, 2008)

Hello again,

Feed progreses through the digestive system based on its particle size. Longer pieces of feed are held in the rumen, regurgitated and continued to be chewed until it is small enough particles to flow out of the rumen. Looking at a ruminants gut contents post mortem (or in the fistulated live animal) shows progressively finer particle size the further you move down the tract. The rumen contents are quite a bit larger and courser.

I pulled out my notes from my dairy cattle ration formulation course back in university (source: Univeristy of Saskatchewan Intensive Ruminant Production An Sc 420, Dairy Feeding and Nutrition). Here's some tidbits:

FEED BYPASSING THE RUMEN

Alfalfa hay, early bloom - 20% bypasses rumen
Alfalfa hay, late bloom - 30% bypasses rumen
Alfalfa pellets - 60% bypasses rumen

EFFECT OF PARTICLE SIZE ON RUMEN FUNCTION
Fluid rumen outflow rate is 7-15% per hour
Solid rumen outflow rate is 3-8% per hour

-Smaller particles (less than 1.18mm) flow more quickly out of the rumen (flow out with fluid rumen outflow).

-An average of 6 mm particle length is needed in rations that are 50% forage for normal rumen function.

-5-10% of the ration should be forage longer than 25-35mm long for normal rumen function.

-Less rumen time results in less rumen fermentation, and consequently, lower digestibility. Protein and soluble carbohydrates may still be digested in the abomasum and small intestine.

-Faster rate of rumen outflow leads to higher feed intake.

-There are two methods of describing Effective Fibre (both are based on NDF or Neutral Detergent Fibre):
Type 1: Particles that stay in the rumen for fermentation
Type 2: Measures the proportion of forage that is long enough to stimulate cud chewing and rumen motility

Forages that are long - 100% Effective Fibre (aka Effective NDF or Ef NDF)
Forages less than 25 mm - 50% Effective Fibre
Other feeds (including concentrates) - 25% Effective Fibre

Obviously this cow info as we all know how little research there is into goats out there.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Well not to be argumentative here but I disagree based on 1 1/2 years of feeding only alfalfa pellets with no noticeable difference in the goats Also based on all the hipe for people using a teaspoon of ground up stuff in a glass of water for fiber verses eating plenty of lettuce or some such thing. Just my opinion.


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## Ravenwood (Jan 10, 2008)

Hi Sondra,

Not trying to cause a disagreement or anything, just posting some info.  It seems the alfalfa pellets may pass through the rumen more quickly than hay but obviously 40% is still of adequate length to stimulate rumen fermentation and motility if its working well for you. I wonder if there would be a noticeable difference if someone in our northern climate would have different results where the requirements for body heat and maintenance would be more demanding than someone in a warmer climate, hence a greater need for rumen fermentation?


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## [email protected] (Oct 26, 2007)

What I have heard is that fiber increases milk production via saliva production which is the rumens natural buffer. I believe there is some minimal amount that they need to meet their needs. 

On the other hand you can think of alfalfa pellets as being a concentrated feed with an abundance of the good stuff milking does need, like calcium and protein. Makes sense to use them if your animals need them. 

Mine absolutely prefer hay over pellets, though, so we continue to use alfy hay. 

Information changes depending on who is putting it out. Forage based operations concentrate on using high quality forages and increasing the nutrients ruminants can digest from forages. Other studies done focus on keeping forage to the minimal amount, and increasing concentrates. I'm not sure why people say that grass hay is a rumen buffer. That is something I haven't heard before. 

I once read an interesting study that indicated goat/cows do not fully adapt to a forage based diet for several years. If that's true, then we won't see what's really going on with our herd for a few years yet. 

What we have observed in our herd is that the goats need high-quality hay or feeds, over cheaper grass hays. With the high quality feeds we see better looking goats, and have better milking goats in the spring. So for goats at least, even their fiber needs to be high quality fiber. 

I'm not sure where feeding alfalfa pellets falls in that. Obviously, they have some fiber and they are also highly nutritious. Because they have no grain it makes them a perfect non-grain feed to add to a milkers diet, if needed. I believe it would take a while for the animal to adapt to pellets, but once adapted would be fine.


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