# Fungus question - now staph



## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

Can someone tell me if fungus in a goat can look like small pimples? The doe with damaged udder I mentioned earlier is doing fine, swelling on the face went down, finished Pennicillin. Around the wound on the udder are two abscess like sores that are now open (no discharge) and small pimples. I was wondering if the doe is scratching her udder on a wood pile and caused the injury that way and if the abscessed sores could be from splinters ???

I guess using a topical antifungal ointment would not hurt ???

Jana


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

*Re: Fungus question*

Small pimples are not fungus, 
With fungus you have a couple of different looks. 
Ringworm has a reddened raised circle/oval around effected area and the center is void of hair, the circle grows outward.. There will be crystal like exude from the reddened area. Handle with gloves and fungal ointment.
Rain Rot at first looks like ringworm but is actually a mange problem, it does not have a reddened circle around effected tissue. The skin will slough off leaving circular or blotchy patterns of bare spots. This is usually due to damp humid air and skin not getting clean.
There are more but I don't think any look like a pimple. Even scabbies does not look like pimples, just raised red spots, and the spots trail.

sounds more like a staph dermititis problem, pimples/pustules are filled with infected fluids, thus the reason the body is try to isolate and rid it through the porous skin.

Tam


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

*Re: Fungus question*

Tam, thank you for the input. We took the doe to the vet and vet said it looked like staph, worried she might possibly lose her udder.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

*Re: Fungus question*

Awww Jana, I'm sorry. I do hope you can clear her up Poor girl. Is there anyway you could send me a pic via e-mail, I'm not being gross just curious.
Tam


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

*Re: Fungus question*

I am the owner and Jana's friend. I will take some pics tonight. I would love advice as I am getting conflicting treatments. My vet said to wash it with betadine twice a day and put her on Naxcel ( sp?) for 6 days. Also he said to dry her up. When I looked online it said to give her Excel ( is this different) every 3 days until the infection was gone and clean it with limesulfur dip. It aslo said don't dry her up. You should also know she is pregnant and due to ki April 24th, but the udder is more important to me that the kids. I can always breed later. I of course want to save them if I can but the doe comes first.

So here is the whole story. On Monday (1/4)night I thought she was getting mastitis as she had a lump on her udder and it was hot and she got edema in her face and ears so I gave her penicillin as a prevenative that night. Took her to the vet Tuesday ( 1/5) I noticed a cut on her foreudder that morning The vet said it was worm overload ( herbal wormer failed me obviously) so I took her home gave her Cydectin and the vet said to continue the penicillin for 5 days so we did. She also got Bose and Copper boluses on Wednesday (1/6) as Jana was nice enough tio fix them and come help me give them. So it looked better on Saturday to me but there was a bump on her medial ligament but it was not open and I thoguht that was odd. ( BTW my daugther milks the goat and so she was putting salve on the cut each milking, and I was giving the penicillin)So on Sunday I notcied the cut looked healed but next to it in her hair there was a sore place like and ulcer. On Tuesday the other sore I mentioned before that had been a bump opened and looked like the one on the foreudder. So we took her to the vet today and he shaved it and said it was staph and that is where I am right now. Any advice would be greatly appreciated especially from someone who has dealt with this before. I will take pics later.

Thanks,

Alysha


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

*Re: Fungus question*

Oops somehow this thinks I am Jana, maybe she logged on while at my house and I can't figure out how to log me instead of her.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

*Re: Fungus question*

Make sure to wear gloves, use a pre and post dip. I myself would wash, pre dip, change gloves, milk, change gloves, wash udder, and post dip, being clean clean clean.
Tam


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

*Re: Fungus question*

LOL, I need to report the stolen identity to the mods !!!! Outrageous , ha ! I must have logged onto your computer and it remembered me, sorry !! Alysha, log out and log back in as yourself.


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

Alysha, while you are waiting for response here, google "staph" and "staph dermititis" on the main page www.dairygoatinfo.com, it will come up with several cases very similar to this one.


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## Aja-Sammati (Oct 26, 2007)

I have treated a doe with this- Excenel is fine, but you give it once a day, every day for 3-5 days (longer if it hasn't cleared up). Do the betadine washing, with gloves as mentioned. Is the area clipped? when we clipped (our case was a dry doe) we found more staph areas. She hated being scrubbed every day, but it worked. Good luck!


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## abtowell (Nov 6, 2009)

Glad to hear it. I am trying to be optimistic. Yes he did clip her and we are sure there are only 2 ares currently. She doesn't seem to mind the cleaning as long as you are feeding her


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## abtowell (Nov 6, 2009)

When someone answers that would know. Should I vaccinate the rest of the herd with thi Lysigin ( sp?) Should I do her too now that she already has it? I am going out now to take pics of the wound and give her, her first Excenal shot. We are milking on concrete floors but wood stands and I am spraying the stands with bleach solution afterwards ( we always do anyhow) I do use, a peroxide base homeade pre spray and udder wipes and then we use Fight Bac. I don't think any of this caused the infection but in case someone thinks of something that I should change I thought I'd mention it.

Thanks for all the help.


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

I would definitely vaccinate the rest of the herd. I'll let someone else answer the rest.


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## abtowell (Nov 6, 2009)

OK here are the pictures. There are two ulcerations, I hate to call them abcesses because nothing comes out of them and they look much worse on the pic than in person, but still gross of course. I wasn't going to post them but I wanted to know what other people's infections looked like and if I don't post mine then the next person won't know ha the look like either. Although as I sit here I think, no wonder non-goat people think we are weird. I am taking pics of gross bumps and carefully describing them instead of watching TV or whatever normal people d at this hour. I am also getting paranoid readng all th aborting posts. I was a little freaked that my doe due on Feb 17 feels soft to me in the ligs, tonight, but I going to chalk it to paranoia since my daugther didn't think s andhr tail is still working normally. I am having a bad goat week it seems.

The pics won't post all at once so I a doing them one at time.

[attachment deleted by admin]


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## abtowell (Nov 6, 2009)

Here is the sore on the front. Ugh they are so much grosser in th picture :down.

[attachment deleted by admin]


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## abtowell (Nov 6, 2009)

I feel like a bad goat owenr with only ugly pics on here of our poor girl's infection so here is what she really looks like. This is her in August of this year when her babies were ready to wean. She gave us triplets that were all 8lbs. and 15lbs of milk a day as a first freshener

[attachment deleted by admin]


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## abtowell (Nov 6, 2009)

Last, but not least my daugther milking the bottle for the triplet on haircutting day. She was giving her first haircuts for the fair, hence the mess around the stand.

[attachment deleted by admin]


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## abtowell (Nov 6, 2009)

So do you get the vaccine from Jeffers or the vet or where because I had not heard of it until now. Also while on the subject is there some list of vaccines for stuff like this I should know about because until today I only thought you had to give CDT.

Thanks


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

She is a very pretty girl Alysha, don't feel like a bad goat owner, we all have times were our animals are not at their best. Thats why DGI is here...to helps us.
I have not dealt with a problem udder in milk, only with an udder on a dry doe. I will have to have others answer on the Naxcel or excenel and on the lysigin. 
It is most important to keep her udder as clean as possible, and allow her udder to totally dry before letting her off of the stand. I would try to get more of the hair away from that foreudder wound. It will hold bacteria. Please don't use any more ointments as the udder tissue needs to breathe to heal. Ointments will also trap more bacteria spreading more of the staph.
Tam


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

You can get the vaccine from Jeffers or Valley Vet...I like Valley Vet because they are in KS like us and it only takes 2 days at most to get anything. Plus shipping is often free (even the special vaccine shipping).


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

Jeffer's order to OK was in 2 days as well. Alysha, if you need to order something, we can put an order together also. I am considering vaccinating my girls just in case. It's up to you, let me know.


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Mar 2, 2009)

Don't feel like a bad goat owner. The only way you would be bad is if your doe was having this problem and you weren't seeking help. Thank you for posting the photos, if ever I come across that, I won't freak out.


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## ellie (Nov 17, 2007)

I always use "Today" mastisis treatment on skin stuff first. It's almost always staph, and today is built for staph. If you're not bolusing with copper, she's probably copper deficient. When immune function is high they have better resistance to skin stuff! Good luck.


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## abtowell (Nov 6, 2009)

Fortunately we just bolused her with copper the day after she cut herself, praise the Lord and I Bose'd her also, so at least I did that right.

My main questions now are

Should I give her the Lysigin or I don't since she already has it?

I put her in a seperate pen tonight wth another doe who has a mysterious set of white bumps on her nose this morning. I clened it with betadine scrub since the Nolvasan isn't here yet.

So then my next question is do I clean the udder with only Nolvasan after I get it and not the Betadine or do I do both? 

Should I wash the other doe's bumpy nose in Nolvasan instead of the Betadine too?

How do I test this staph? Where can I send it?

I was going to take her ack to the vet and ask him to do it but I think since he isn't an experienced goat guy I will need to tell him how and where to send it. Any info on this is much appreciated.

Also I am supposed to give all my goats Cydectin tonight as their 10 days is up from the last does. This won't interfere with the antibiotic or the Lysigin will it?

Thanks so much


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

I just recently finished 6 days of Naxcel injections for a FF doe with lab test verified Staph aureus. She had a couple of much smaller pimples on her udder too. I cleaned them well then sprayed FightBac on them, and then smeared a bit of the Today infusion that oozed out in my first couple of infusion attempts. They cleared up really fast, just a couple of days.

The Naxcel was expensive compared to penicillin, but she didn't even seem to feel the injections unlike the pen injections she would protest a bit.


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## abtowell (Nov 6, 2009)

Well that story makes me feel better. Did you give Lysigin at all? We use Fight Bac on her teats but I ordered Nolvalsan anyway. I hope it gets here tomorrow, if it doesn't it may be Tuesday because of the holiday. UGH! 

I found the doe's sister with the nose spots also had spots. I throughly checked everyone and they were th only 2 so I stuck them with the original doe in a new pastuer Jana came helped me build a shelter for. I am so grateful. I cleaned out the barn and sprayed it with bleach and rebedded it so hopefully no more bumps on the clean does or I think I will scream.

Someone please tell how I get this tested though. Also he udder is looking lopsided and that can't be good. it was always even. The sore on the back side is much better but the one on the front is not and she has little white bumps all down the medial where she lays on it. Oh I hate this. Her milk still looks good though. Not that I would even taste but it doesn't look or smell funny so I hope that is a good sign.


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

You send a milk sample to LSU. Here's their contact info: http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,85.0.html

Give them a call and ask exactly what to do.


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

Is there another way to test the staph, or only the milk??


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

I'm not sure what Nolvasan you're referring to, but in decades of Dalmatian rescue work, the Nolvasan shampoo has been an essential to clean up their staph skin infections.  It has chorhexidine, the same as Fight-bac teat spray as an active ingredient. There was another one that I can't remember the name of right now that was peroxide active ingredient that worked well too, I don't know if it translates to goat skin infections. 

My doe's milk didn't smell funny, I only noticed it was yellow cuz I milk my does into separate containers and next to each other I could see a slight difference, it was a little yellow. Then when I tasted it, it was distinctly salty, a weird salty. Obviously I didn't drink it past that.

Everything I've read says that jumping on these things at the first stage is essential, that once you get a chronic situation the prognosis is not good. So I'm a believer in getting lab tests and find out EXACTLY what you're dealing with, and correctly target the best treatment you can. Wading thru all the contradictory info to figure out what is best is hard. In the end, I believe it saves wasted money and hopefully the doe's career.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Staph A is a whole nother thing than enviornmental staph. Your doe really looks like she had staph cysts that now have burst through the udder wall, I had a doe like this also, I cleaned her with chlorhexideen (it really is the only topical spray I keep around, I buy it in a gallon jug from the vet and use it on everything in a spray bottle, jeffers carries it in pints and quarts also) it's the same carrier as in fightback, just much cheaper, it can be used as a shampoo and then as a spray leave on. But I then packed the cyst "hole" with sugar so it would heal from the inside out. 

Lysigin is a vaccination, goats don't have natural immunity to staph since it's more about a healthy immune system that stops nusiance problems like this. Staph dermatitis is one of the immune problems goats get (the white pimples) so giving bo-se more often, even once a month, using lysigin (which also helps keep staph A at bay) copper bolusing, and biggy is groceries. If you look at the doe she is very torpedo looking, means she does not have a well developed rumen for her size, with all immunity in the intestine you can see how having a deep barrel filled with roughage (hay and browse) is so important for the overall health of your herd. When infants you do build that deep barrel with grain, but once weaned, roughage should be what you think about mostly with your goats....the only reason we use grain is to fix the problems of your roughage.

We all wish herbal wormers, or really we wish there was a more natural approach to raising our dairy goats in the south, there isn't. Once we close the gate, once we force them to live in the same area for years, there isn't anything natural about what we have done to our goats, to then think they should survive then on natural remedies makes no logical sense. Letting animals get anemic from worms or cocci, simply will kill your goats, and really wastes all the condition building calories we have fed. Vicki


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

lotta great info all put together in a way that makes sense there Vicki, Thank you!

could you elaborate a little more on "... infants you do build that deep barrel with grain, but once weaned, roughage..." ? eg type of grain, age of "infant" etc? Does any of the probios-type supplements given to infants/kids/weanlings have a lifetime benefit in your opinion? I've read you generally say probios is expensive yogurt, so maybe just acidophilous, but my question is about age to give for max benefit.


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## abtowell (Nov 6, 2009)

Ok thank you Vicki for answering. I do think you hit the nail on the head. I felt a lump in her udder 2 days efore the sore opened so I think it is exactly what you are talking about. I do want to have it tested to be sure but can't do so until Tuesday due to the holiday.

1. So for clarity do you think the antibiotic she is on and the Nolvason to clean it will be enough?

2. I also feel another knot in her udder that hasn't come out yet. Is there anything I can do for it, or just wait for it to surface?

She has been Bose'd and she was copper bolused as I mentioned the Tuesday before it happened. That was her first time though as Jana and I just recently learned how to do this. She is on Sondra's feed mix. She only gets grain on the stand. She gets Bemuda hay in the morning and alfalfa at night. She is a large bodied doe despite the photo. She is wider than she is deep. She looks like a pear from the top. Her gut is still stuck out pretty good from where her triplets were. Everytime I go out there I can feel her rumen packed so I think she is getting enough. They run out of hay around 6pm and they get new hay after milking at around 8pm and it's gone in the morning. We have alot of browse but of course it is dead in the winter. I also Cydectin'd her yesterday as her 10 days was up, along with everyone else. I just want to make sure I don't miss anything since I don't know much.

Also I understood you to say yes to the Lysigin for her, so correct me f I am wrong.

One more thing the 2 does with the white spots on the nose. My intention is to give them Lysigin and then clean the nose in Nolvasan until it clears up. Is this the correct course of action?


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## Aja-Sammati (Oct 26, 2007)

Good short read on environmental staph, from Cornell:
http://nyschap.vet.cornell.edu/module/mastitis/section1/environmental%20mastitis%20fact%20sheet.pdf


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

interesting that they say it applies to Streps and Staphs other than Strep agalactiae and Staphs aureus...


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Yes Naxcel is the perfect antibiotic to clear up the sore and keep the skin healthy, adding pennicillin would give you more gram negative and positive antibiotic protection, the real problem with cysts is that the body has already walled this off, so it thinks it has done a great job, the problem comes in that nothing really will breakinto this and kill it, and unless you aspirate the contents, you really don't know which antibiotic to use. They can burst inside the udder, or like what happened to my doe and yours, it burst out. They want out into the enviornment to contaminate other animals.

You can bo-se her again each week for awhile, and you will see a real difference in your does in a month or so after the bolus takes effect.

I do you probios on infants (birth to about a week old) because they are living off only one chamber of their stomachs, so real benefit comes from it. Figure kids who nurse mom are getting live bacteria from her dirty teats, live bad bacteria from the environment also  So using this beneficial bacteria in our bottle kids makes sense. We have talked about this before and you can do a left hand search, and I am also thinking Ken's old post and references are in 101 on here, about the benefits of starting calves on grain and building that strong rumen then adding (for me 6 weeks) alfalfa hay. I free feed grain from birth, and I do have really nicely developed rumens in my kids doing it this way, especially when compared with kids who are raised on only alfalfa. Long term? Probiotics are about developing a healthy intestinal flora, where all immunity is, so of course there would be long term benefits in a kid who can absorb and develop immunity and healthy flora. Nothing is as important though as understanding what high quality colostrum really is. Vicki


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

ok, fabulous info, what makes "high quality" colostrum? 
and for us who have a had a pregnant doe with mastitis, how does that affect our colostrum options? How much does it matter or not if her milk gets a clean lab test before she's totally dried off?


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## abtowell (Nov 6, 2009)

Her last dose of Nacel is tomorrow. Her sore on the front that I packed with sugar finally looks better. I still feel one inside though. She has 6 days of Naxcel. Should I go get some more? Also were you saying I should give naxcel and Penicillin at the same time? If so, both a full dose? Also do I wiat on more antibiotic until I get it tested or should I not take her off of it for fear of it building up immunity?

The sugar thing was weird but I am amazed at how quickly the sore got better. Strange, but thanks


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

It's a horse thing, the sugar  Mom used to do it on them. I have no idea why it would even work.

Yes when and if you have to treat this again, using two antibiotics will usually work much better on anything in the udder than just one, also using banamine at the same time. No I wouldn't buy more naxcel to use I would let everything be. We want to finish courses of antibiotics but using them (other than something like tetracycline for abortion storms etc) you usually don't want to continue with antibiotics...they aren't used to 'kill' anything but to help the does body play catchup, so boosting her immune system works wonders.

Colostrum...excellent article on colostrum used to be on saanendoah.com high quality colostrum comes from your older does who are vaccinated with things you have problems with on your farm...me pnemonia and staph were biggies for me, now I just give lysigin to virgin does I have kept to breed, and both are used to bolster the older does who I use as colostrum cows. Younger milkers, on a colotromidor show very low speicific gravity and nearly no IeG's of antibody in the system of the kids compared to what is in the intake of kids who receive colostrum from older does. Around 8, the quality lessens until about 10 they are back to 1st and 2nd fresheners quality that the zoo would not purchase the colostrum from these does. Vicki


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

article there now seems to be grayed out and unavailable. :-(

but searching brings up some interesting stuff... you'll set me on the straight and narrow :biggrin

field checking of colostrum quality in equines with a wine or sugar refractometer tested to be more accurate than a colostrometer??? http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/aaep/1998/Chavatte.pdf
but you've warned several times about extrapolating from single stomached animals...

on the other hand, goat colostrometer at Hoeggers doesn't seem to have the drawbacks in the article and is super affordable... http://www.hoeggergoatsupply.com/xcart/product.php?productid=4184&cat=13&page=1

but if one finds out the colostrum is inadequate, what are the options? Yes, I can beg from older does I know, but I won't have much say in exactly how it gets collected or handled... Are any of the "replacers" worth anything?

and doesn't nature design it properly that the kids need the amount of colostrum provided? I've read its ok to take some to freeze for future but....

now I should be freaking out that my FF's kids last year didn't get a good start? :rofl this is all going to make me nuts... ok, nuttier... trying to do every thing right when there's so many different right ways?


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Sugar and salt change the osmotic gradient.
This changes what can live there.
L


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

With an 8 pound kid only needing 8 ounces of high quality colostrum my 4 oldest does easily give me enough to freeze for all the kids born the next year. I simply put pop bottles with about 8 ounces into the freezer then add fresh heat treated colostrum from the other does to it. I sell alot of colostrum so my 1st and 2nd fresheners colostrum goes to horse and dog and humans. My herd was tested years back from the local zoo for an antelope study, they would only purchase from my 3 year olds and up, stopping about 8 years old. It's also when I started vaccinating for pasturella for them and got the nice little bonus of rarely any pnemonia in my herd even in sold does in other herds. So I haven't actually tested colostrum myself. Of course there is more to immunity than just high quality colostrum but it's certainly a good start for our sterile born kids.


Make sure purchased colostrum has IeG's listed on the container or it is not a replacement it is just a fluff supplement once again.

So as your older doe kids, get a few ounces of her colostrum into each kid, then let them continue on their own dams colostrum for 12 hours, much past that and although higher in calories than milk and it also has a good laxative effect, your wasteing colostrum feeding it if you have milk for the kids. Freeze it, if all you have is a frostfree freezer than put it into styrofoam, better yet put it in someone freezer that they have to defrost yearly like I have...this way it doesn't freeze and thaw as the automatic defrost keeps your freezer frost free. Never keep important frozen stuff like your naxcel or colostrum in the top of a refridgerator unless it's you only choice. Vicki


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

Vicki McGaugh Tx Nubians said:


> With an 8 pound kid only needing 8 ounces of high quality colostrum my 4 oldest does easily give me enough to freeze for all the kids born the next year... I sell alot of colostrum ...Make sure purchased colostrum has IeG's listed on the container or it is not a replacement it is just a fluff supplement once again....So as your older doe kids, get a few ounces of her colostrum into each kid, then let them continue on their own dams colostrum for 12 hours, ... doesn't freeze and thaw...


Ok, great stuff there! I totally get the fluff colostrum bit, I'm very skeptical of it.

Great tips on the freezing, I've been reading about the "no frost free" but you have a good suggestion about the styrofoam.

Unfortunately, my older doe isn't even bred this year yet, she's my currrent AI target. My first one due will be 2nd freshener and the one with the recent mastitis that I'm still trying to get expertise on what the different clumply bits are that are coming out.... She's due mid-Mar.

So... how much is colostrum and where do you sell yours? :biggrin I assume it can be shipped frozen with dry ice, next day, if I can't get some locally that I have faith in.


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## abtowell (Nov 6, 2009)

Not sure if anyone will see this in time my doe popped up with another Staph ulcer on her inside back leg/hoof ( her pastern I guess but on the inside of the leg) . Are we sure I shouldn't get more meds? I gave her Penicillin 5 days and then she had nothing for 3 and then Naxcel fot 6 days. We are cleaning it and putting the sugar on it. The udder sore is better albeit large. It's the size of the palm of my hand. I am gathering I should have given penicillin and Naxcel at the same time but since I didn't know that until day 5 on naxcel I obviously couldn't pull that off. So I guess please post what I should do for getting worse instead of better as I am assuming new ulcers are worse.


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## abtowell (Nov 6, 2009)

I wanted to add this last photo t the tread in case ay future newbies had this trouble andwanted to know what te udder will look like. This photo is 3 days post Lysigin. It was taken a few weeks ago. Now her skin is returning to the normal color and there are no scabs present. Here's hoping it never comes back wih the vaccine. I am on tostudy pnemonia vaccines before I have to learn that the hard way. 

[attachment deleted by admin]


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Glad she is doing soo much better. I bet she is a dream to hand milk with those teats! Vicki


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