# Wholesale issue: what would you do?



## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

Ok, so I've been working on getting my laundry soap into Wholefoods. It's actually been in progress for about 18 months. Yes, that's not a typo. 18 months. For some background: a friend of mine used to make a GM laundry soap and 2 local Wholefoods stores carried it. She made the paste kind and there were a few issues with spoilage because of the water. She tried at least one kind of preservative, but the acceptable preservatives for WF also tend not to work at such a high pH, so it did not work. She ended up getting out of goats anyway and when she told WF that she would not be doing it any more, she also mentioned that I would be doing laundry soap and they expressed interest. I was already making it, and had reformulated it; it is a dry granular type laundry soap, so no spoilage or preservative issues. I contacted WF and got all my paperwork submitted, sample turned in, bought insurance, UPCs, etc. None of my other accounts require those things, though insurance is still probably a good thing to have. 

Anyhow, it's been a slow process. They have a lot of paperwork and much of it is redundant. But I got it all in and I'm in their system. I have emailed them and called them on a number of occasions to see if they wanted to order and it's always been something or another ("let me check with our tech guy and make sure you're in the system" or "we are doing some rearranging of that area of the store this week" or somesuch) and they'd get back to me. At a local foods expo that I was at the first weekend of this month, I was next to the WF booth, and happened to talk to guy about it. He finally got back to me today. Their buyer was reluctant to order because of previous spoilage issues (which have been resolved), and the guy told me that they could offer me the ability to "Free-sale" a case of each kind/size to them. In other words, I could give them 4 cases (nearly $300 wholesale) of product and then if it sold, they'd order more, but I wouldn't make any money off of the initial order. If it didn't sell, they'd give it back to me. And they are doing some new things with some of their products which might require additional reformulation (though I tend to think not). 

So, those of you with experience in this area, what would you do?


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## Kalne (Oct 25, 2007)

I have heard of this over on the dish....not necessarily with WF but similar. As much as I would like to get an account like that I honestly don't think I would do it. I'm simply not going to give away product for them to sell.


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## Angelknitter12 (Feb 16, 2012)

I don't think I could do it.


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## Guest (Apr 26, 2012)

I think I would walk away from this headache..


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## Faye Farms (Sep 14, 2009)

I must say, it ticks me off that your friends past problems are being shoved on you by WF. You and your soap have absolutely nothing to do with hers. I would forget them. You have your ducks in a row, go find some stores that would be happy to carry your soap.


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## a4patch (Oct 7, 2009)

Ditto to all of the above. But on the flip side, thanks for posting this thread. You have laid out the steps we all need to be aware of. So sorry this happened.


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

Wow, ashame, I guess it's always hard to follow someone who had some issues. I hope you can work it out with the store, because it sounds like such a good opportunity. Did you get your own UPC codes (I hear that costs $760 and then around $120 every year after that) or did you buy one or two individual UPC codes?


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## jdranch (Jan 31, 2010)

I guess it comes down to how bad do you want it? Could this open the door to selling other products there? Can you afford to give them the product? If it sells, then they will buy more. If it doesn't, you get to get it back. Are they going to be too much of a time commitment to deal with? Either way, you have gained experience dealing with a big company and going through "the process".


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

Marion, I got UPC codes from Easy UPC, so it was not nearly that expensive. Less than $200 for 10 of them. 

Jennifer, I doubt that it would necessarily open the door to selling other products there. They already have a ton of soap, and their list of acceptable ingredients does not include reasonable preservatives for lotions, IMO. (They have some preservatives that they allow, but they don't work well or don't work well at the pH of most lotions, etc). And I'd have to go through the entire process again for each new product, from what I can tell. 

I just wish they had said something a long time ago...I really dislike the feeling that I was being strung along. I know with my friend, they did not do a "free fill" sort of arrangement. She even offered to buy back the spoiled product (after having replaced it with product that spoiled again!) and they said no, that some spoilage of products was factored in, yada yada yada. But that cost is apparently being passed on to me? And I pointed out the spoilage issue to my friend, even. Sigh.

I can certainly claim a free fill as a business expense, and I have the wiggle room right now to do it, it's more the principle of the thing that bugs me. I mean, here they are, some big company, but they expect the VERY little guy to assume all risk and take the loss. Grrrr....


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## tmfinley (Feb 21, 2008)

I think it depends on your business goals. I am fortunate that I have not had to free sale any of my items to WholeFoods yet, but I would do it if a store asked and there was no way around it. I am in 6 local WholeFoods and plan on going for more in the coming months. My goal for this year is to get all of the Whole Foods in Houston and San Antonio in addition to the 2 stores I was already in in Austin. I'm halfway there. My goal for the next 3 years is to go 100% wholesale (I will still probably do my one local farmers market because I love it) and have it support my family. A foot into WholeFoods is very difficult to get, if it is part of your goal I would take it any way I could get it. A $300 loss probably won't break your business. If you pass up the opportunity will you always wonder what if? 

There is a possibility that having your laundry soap in will help you get other products in. They are in 2 totally different departments so it will be more difficult but if you make sure all of the team members in the store like you and remember you and make friends with the Whole Body department you have a great shot. It is all about personal relationships in these stores.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Every large store and chain I have, I am given a buyer....so you are all having to deal with multiple people in each store? A buyer is paid on getting your product into the store and selling, so they have a vested interest in you and your product. Doing this for awhile now, I would think it was sort of a scam if a store treated me this way. My buyers LOVE me, they come to the farm when they are in Houston.

I hope nobody takes away from this thread that this is any normal way you are treated wholesaling into a retail market, that is no way to run a business.

Now small stores, where you are dealing with just the owner, yes, it can get difficult sometimes.


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## tmfinley (Feb 21, 2008)

There are individual buyers in each department for each store. So, in Austin, I deal with 2 separate buyers. Houston, I deal with 5 different people. They do not have a vested interest in your products. You go in and do demos and get your numbers up and start getting a following or you will be replaced with the next guy that comes in. 

Edited to add - There is a regional buyer but all he does is get your UPCs into the system really. My regional buyer is super good to local people and doesn't make us do any free fill. If I want to go outside the region I will be asked to give free fill. If I want into a new store I have to talk to the body care buyer of that specific store.


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

I asked about this over at The Dish, too, and was told that this is not unusual for some of the bigger stores, WF in particular, but that I could try negotiating either a steep discount off of regular wholesale for them for the first order, or a "3+3" which is basically 3 cases at regular wholesale and 3 cases free fill, but that under the circumstances, this would probably be the only way I'd get my product into the store. As she put it, stores like WF make money by assuming no risk if they can help it. :/


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

I'm glad you posted this. What a terrible way for a large corporation to treat a small, local run business....aren't they supposed to be trying to support small and local? Yikes! Sounds like a huge headache to me, but I know you've already invested time, effort and money to get this far, seems a shame to have to stop now. Wow, I don't have a clue what I would do. Do you think the final payoff will be worth it once you are in stores? I guess that would be a way to look at it...will this end up being a steady paycheck for you?


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

Well, as another person over on The Dish put it, what does this $300 wholesale of product actually cost me? (She guessed $75 and that's about right.) Would I spend $75 in advertising or to land a potentially big account? If so, I should give them the soap. 

So I need to call them back. I did look up their new Eco-Scale thing and I don't think that it affects my formulation at all. (There are certain prohibited ingredients, none of which are in my laundry soap, from what I can tell.)


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## Faye Farms (Sep 14, 2009)

When put that way, she has a point. Think of how easy it is to spend $75 now a days. At least with this you have the potential to pull in some income. I hope WF's quits being so wishy washy with you though. Either order or don't but don't string you along.


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