# Mastitis before freshening



## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

It looks like one of my first fresheners has mastitis but I wasn't sure about removing the plug from the teat to collect a milk sample. She has two weeks to go. Will a culture even work on colostrum? Should I just go ahead and treat with pirsue and naxcel. Been through the whole staph (not aureus) mastitis before and it wasn't a good outcome.(Vet was a total pill) Could she have a hard lumpy udder if it wasn't mastitis? She's CAE negative and has no fever.


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## nightskyfarm (Sep 7, 2009)

Are you positive on the mastitis or could it be a bad case of edema?


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## J-Basqo (Oct 26, 2007)

What are you reasons for thinking she has mastitis? Is her udder uneven? Hard and hot? Does she have a fever?? Does can freshen with staph as FFs and at any time, generally the first thing you will notice is the udder will develop uneven. Some soft tissue swelling and a lumpiness can just be edema and swelling due to the changes in her udder, which is completely normal and benign. So it could go either way. A description of her udder would be helpful for us who cant see it.


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

Does the CMT work on staph? If you have no heat, no lumps, no fever, etc. but have an uneven udder would you test? Sorry to hi-jack a little but I have no experience with mastitis (hopefully won't!).


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I would leave a FF alone unless you are very knowledgeable yourself about mastitis, do you have a local mentor you can have look at this doe for you?

Jessica, CMT is about cow somatic cell counts. I have does who gell on CMT during parts of thier lactation, I usually run tests and weigh milk each Monday, and other times they are clear...CMT is fine for detecting change, but you have to know your does. Lopsided udders can also come from nursing kids, and if you purchase a doe who is lopsided suspect old mastitis. I send milk samples into LSU (free except for testing) on all purchased does before they go into the milkstring, before then they are milked last and are usually in quarantine still. I don't want staph again. Vicki


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

Well, I DON'T think that's what I am seeing, but the comment of lopsided udder made me curious. It is on a FF who didn't nurse kids at all. When she kidded though, her colostrum was Soooo thick in one side (like toothpaste almost) that I think maybe it just got stretched out and the other one didn't??? It appears to be permanent. Is there any hope after drying her up for next kidding season she might freshen with a balanced udder again? 
I just realized my description makes it sound like its her teat, which it is, but it is also her udder. Of course the teat is more noticeable but the udder is also larger on that side and "hangs" for lack of a better term unbalanced. I've had her since 5 days after kidding (just over a month) and thought maybe with milking her she might even up but she hasn't. Any advice or experience? It doesn't sound like mastitis though- right???
Her udder does feel warm (all the does do, but it's freezing cold here so I figure that's somewhat normal for them to feel warm on my cold hands), but no temp, no hot udder, and no lumps or weird looking or tasting milk. 
Is there something I should use to monitor mastitis, making sure no one has it, other than observation?


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## ellie (Nov 17, 2007)

Mastitis if it is, is a red flag to me to examine for copper problems. A goat's immune system is designed to prevent normal bacterial invasions so if you really have a case, I'd be thinking about low immune fuction being involved.

Kind of off on a different subject, but since I'm writing a book-- a lot of which is about human health, I realize that all animals are designed to survive well. When they don't, when they start having health problems (goats or people) it's a good time to look at root causes which are usually malnutrition (mal=bad, not necessarily skimpy nutrition). 

So if a goat is getting sick (just like when a human is getting sick) it's often about nutrition and copper is a biggie for goats. If you wnat to know what it is for humans, watch for the book (this year!)


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Of course I wouldn't be positive unless I sent a sample off to be cultured, this looks a lot like the subclinical mastitis that my first lamancha doe had several years ago. uneven udder. Big side is not just full but hard with several lumps. But I was scared that milking her at this point would invite serious infection.
Honestly, this year I have struggled with my own health and the goats' barn hasn't been cleaned as often as it should be, and I was late on bo-se and copper bolusing. So this definitely could be related to poor management.
So my plan is to pull the kids and give them some of the stored colostrum I have saved back, then bottle-feed. Send off a culture after freshening and take it from there. 
Oh, can colostrum be cultured and give accurate results?


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## J-Basqo (Oct 26, 2007)

Jryan~ How long has your FF been in lactation? The side that had the "thick" colostrum, was it smaller, or larger? Generally the infected side will be smaller with staph (but in some cases a really infected half could show as larger with sever swelling and hardness). The fact that the colostrum was THAT thick and both sides were not like that, it would have me suspecting a "staph" bacterium infection. A staph infection doesnt always act like what we would picture a typical "mastitis" infection. They dont always get a fever, or have any hardness or swelling. Sometimes the only sign/symptom is the lesser production in the infected half. NOW, a lesser producing half still could also be a genetic defect, which can make diagnosis more difficult in a FF because you have not seen a prior lactation. In my barn, if a goat freshened lopsided I would suspect staph first and would either go ahead and do a course of treatment and/or send in for a somatic cell count, just to see what is going on in there. In my experience, if caught and corrected promptly, the doe may be lopsided for that lactation, but as long as there is no infection with the next freshening their udders even out.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Patina the first indication of a staph infection in FF is often larger half not smaller.
Lesser production yes but it is the inflammation taking up space.
Please always culture so you know what you are fighting.
Yes- if you can express any fluid it can be cultured.
Lee


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## J-Basqo (Oct 26, 2007)

Sorry Lee, I will correct that  I should not have said "generally", but "in my experience", the smaller half had the staph infection


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Please don't apologize-that is all we can go on...my experience with helping local herds has been the FF lopsided udder scenario prior to freshening was the larger side inflamed from infection. And 100 percent of the time they had no bedding.


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Mar 2, 2009)

I'm curious what causes staph in a doe before she has ever freshened?


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Staph is in the environment. You have it on your door knob. 
This is poor immune function and can be prevented with proper mineral supplementation.


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Mar 2, 2009)

Good to know,thanks  

Oh, does Lysign protect against all staph mastitis?


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## supermom (Feb 24, 2009)

Lee, are you indicating they need bedding to avoid staph? Just curious why the comment, "100% of the time, they had no bedding." I just completely cleaned out my stable and now I'm trying to figure out whether to leave it empty and just sweep it out (cobblestone floor) or put down hay or shavings or what.

Thanks!


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Oh yes... I am a huge advocate of deep clean bedding for does. Heavy bred does often do not get up all night long and does with open orafices right after freshening or post nursing or post milking laying on soiled ground are faced with the need to fight more bacteria accessing the milk ducts. We buy more hay for bedding than for eating. 

Wow- cobblestones....let me have that for my studio/gallery and you can have my hay for bedding  

Audra- Lysigin is specific for staph aureus in fact it IS staph aureus.


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Mar 2, 2009)

Ok, got it,thank you again


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

She freshened just over a month ago, like a month and a week or two? The larger teat and udder is on the same side as the super thick, yellow colostrum. It does give the same amount of milk as the other side, but considering it is so much bigger, that doesn't quite add up. Guess I'll be sending milk off tomorrow.  
The more I learn about this, the more it sounds like her symptoms. So... How bad is drinking mastitis infected milk? 
Luckily this is the one goat we didn't have tested for EVERYTHING since I THOUGHT she would be the safest, haha, but we keep her milk separate and our son doesn't get it since we didn't have neg. tests in hand.


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## supermom (Feb 24, 2009)

Maybe not cobblestones, but when we bought this place....the stable floor was made from bricks like a cobblestone floor. It may be more trouble than it's worth as it does not drain well. The huts we have with grass/dirt floors seem to be better to me. I had their room deep bedded until this week when I decided I should do better and clean it out. I am going to go add a layer of fresh hay tonight. Thanks!


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## nightskyfarm (Sep 7, 2009)

Mastitis or elevated SCC counts in milk are not a human health hazard. Once the animal is treated with a course of antibiotics, then drinking the treated milk can be to one who is allergic to the medicine that was given.


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

So, should my plan then be to send off for a test and then treat accordingly? 
So glad to hear "mastitis milk" isn't THAT bad!


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Sub clinical staph mastitis milk may not be bad, but I would dare you to drink Staph aureous or ecoli milk!  Where is that throw up emoticon???


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## nightskyfarm (Sep 7, 2009)

That's right, Vicki - still not a health hazard. Certainly, no one wants to be drinking mastitis milk and if it is clinical, you won't be drinking it because rarely is the milk fluid. But, milk with an elevated SCC will still be fluid and to most appear normal.


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

LoL, well, it sounds like THAT I would have noticed, lol.


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