# Baycox schedule



## nlhayesp

I am "late in the game" when it comes to coccidia control. I used to treat kids/lambs when they showed symptoms (scours), but was never pro-active when they weren't clinical. Now, I am realizing that this is probably the reason my kids/lambs do not grow as well as other's do. I have been concentrating on improving their feed, hay, and worms. I have taken 2 FAMACHA classes, as well as other parasite control seminars at Ohio State; yet my kids/lambs do not grow well. Through this forum, I am gleaning so much information based on an amazing amount of practical knowledge. 
That said, I bought Baycox in the fall. I dosed my three "keeper" kids/lamb immediately and have seen their growth and vitality improve tremendously. Now that we have lambs and kids on the ground, what is the treatment schedule of Baycox for them? I have read (I think), tha you dose at 8 weeks. Then, someone else (I think), doses throughout the first year.(?) I have tried to do a search, and a lot of info comes back, but it isn't always in agreement.


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## MF-Alpines

Nancy, I have not seen the "dose at 8 weeks" threads. Since the lifecycle of cocci is 21 days, you would need to dose them at that time (Day 20 or 21). Dosage is 1cc/5 lbs.

It should be a one-time dose. Others have used it as one dose, every 21 days.

I forget if you fecal or not. It is worth the investment in the microscope. Then you will ABSOLUTELY know whether it is working or not (wormers, too, for that matter).


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## nlhayesp

I do not have a microscope yet. I have the vet run fecals on a regular basis. Now that we have implemented parasite control techniqes, our numbers are exceptionally low across the board.


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## NubianSoaps.com

Nancy so was he seeing cocci in the fecals before?

In my opinion I would have you use Corid, per my prevention protocol, until you are fecal sampling and can see how the Baycox works for you and what schedule works. We know if you stick to the 5 days on, every 20 days schedule like clockwork, that Corid works....we do not yet have the same information on Baycox yet. Vicki


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## Caprice_Acres

The main reason I got baycox is because I have the meat goats and I'm mainly only home on weekends and kidding season. My dad keeps the goats alive, but there is no way he's going to catch wild dam raised boer kids for 3 days/week (with me doing 2 doses during the weekend). 

My current plan is to use Baycox at 4 and 8 weeks of age, when I vaccinate them. Haven't decided what protocol I'll be using with the dairies... Corid, Decoxx M in the milk, dimethox (they hate the taste once they're about 50lbs, even in the milk), or baycox. PRoblem with baycox on the meats is that there is a 70 day withdrawal.


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## buckrun

Baycox only requires one dose barring unusual circumstances like repeated exposure to new strains.
It is not like other medications in effect. Coccidia take 3 weeks to get to reproductive stage.
Dose at 3 to 4 weeks of age and forget it. I fecaled weekly for 6 months on kids dosed one time only.
We had only damaged non-viable oocyst cases on the slides. No viable eggs. This was immune activity up close and personal  

It is incorrect to say this information is not available.
Many of the top herds in the nation use Baycox. You know the names- just go see their stock and try to believe their growth rates. Yearling milkers the size of most mature does in less intensively managed herds. Growth rates drop as animals age. If you cannot take full advantage of the very early growth surges available at no other time in their lives you have already dropped eventual potential to less than their full capability for growth. 

I used it last year exclusively - one dose and my weight gains were normal for my herd which is pretty darn phenomenal. Since we dam raise it is nice not to do things to the kids that make them spooky.
Squirting caustic stuff down them so frequently will do that. 
I am all about it.

It is ~as of this year~ part of my management for just kidded does as well. 1cc per 15 pounds. 
They are reported to spring back more quickly because they do not fight the bloom of cocci- even tho they have resistance- kidding drops immune function-and so they can recover more quickly- milk more steadily and use their immunity to fight something else. If you have a doe that is a laggard at recovery and has clumpy poop for no other reason you can discern....think about doing a fecal for cocci. Surprising! A dose of Baycox will re-establish dominance over the local strain.

Keep in mind any time you change locale....or your goat moves- or your goat spends a lot of time in another location they can pick up strains of cocci that are different than the ones they have resistance to and so another dose will be needed....such as for traveling goats when show season ends and they are finished with exposures to new strains. 
Even with no symptoms...a clean up dose is not a bad idea. Using a fecal is not always effective because they are not always laying eggs.
Lee


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## buckrun

My comment about dosing adult does has prompted questions about milk withdrawal.
There is no US approved study on this chemical for milking stock.
The only study I could find was not in English. 
It is a valuable tool for does that are not springing back from kidding with fecal samples to show cocci activity.
Meat withdrawal is 76 days ( right0) and you will have to make your own judgement on milk.
I would imagine it would work to feed all milk from dosed does to the kids and stagger who gets dosed just like with any chemical intervention. This is actually a banned drug in the US because of the competition it presents to established protocols and not because of any safety issues. Politics as usual- both that it is banned and that we can access it anyway lol. 
Lee


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## Trysta

Lee, what language is that study in?
Marion


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## Caprice_Acres

What I heard is that it kills off all stages of cocci but animals that become re-exposed will become reinfected. Resistance to cocci takes a while to develop - can't rember but it's like 6mon-1yr for full immunity after exposure. The study I read (too long ago, so i'm not sure how credible this quote is... haha) said that new oocysts were found in the feces of animals after about 3 weeks post-dose. Wether or not it ever reaches a damaging quantity, I didn't see. 

The critical difference is how I raise the boers vs the dairies. The boers are dam raised, diaries are pulled as is conventional The boer kids are re-exposed after treatment because they're with the parents. The dairies I raise conventionally - pulled at birth, raised apart from the adults until usually about 5+ months old. Adults shed a LOT into the environment especially after kidding. 

I do feed 20g/ton rumensin to all does starting 4 weeks pre-kidding. When dairies freshen they get on non-medicated grain. The boer does stay on medicated grain and are fed when the dairies are in the milkroom. 

I usually try to avoid fecaling because the local vets seem to be fairly incompentant or won't run a fecal on goats because they aren't a livestock vet *sigh*. Maybe I'll use that online source of fecal sampling and see how I do just using baycox once. 

The only problem is, if I DO have a cocci problem after 8 weeks of age, redosing the meat kids means I have to consider meat withdrawal. Might just be safer to dose at 8 weeks and not worry about it. Either way it's cheaper than using dimethox when I costed it out. And I have to use it less often!


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## Qz Sioux

Milk withdrawal on this was one reason why I never used it on my Nubian doe. I don't have a problem with using it on bucks because they don't milk, but on the does I just worry about it. All my kids this year will be dosed at 21 days with Baycox, I will do a fecal before dosing and 3 days later to see if there is a change.


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## nlhayesp

Wow, I learned a lot in this post from all of you. Thanks! I think I will give it to all kids/lambs when they get their first CDT at 1 month. As for does, I guess I wasn't aware that they shed cocci after kidding, so the 1 ml/15 lbs for a doe really makes sence as well. My boers deliver first in our season, and I can easily incorporate this into my kidding management. I de-worm new moms with valbenzen the day or day after delivery.


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## buckrun

By re-expsosure they mean a new strain.
Not the same ones you killed off originally.
They have resistance to what is in the system during the treatment.
Re-exposed....new strain.


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## NubianSoaps.com

My kids need to build immunity from Cocci, it is one of the reasons I don't like using Rumensin or sulfas.....Baycox is going to be one of those drugs like cydectin was in the beginning. It is going to have to have much more widespread use for me to switch. I already have one of those big kid herds  

Corid keeps all the lifecycles intact, it only inhibits the more harmful lifecycle, so kids get immunity.

It makes no logical sense to me that one dose of Baycox, gives a sterile ruminant the ability to never have that species of cocci affect them ever again.....our cocci occysts are killers, stunters, to get rid of all effects forever in one dose....nope. But I will be the first one back on to tout it's wonderfulness just like I do cydectin now


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## buckrun

Everyone gets to choose what they do but I am in love with this product. 
As I said with dam raised kids if you are constantly chasing them around to squirt something horrid down them - you are going to have issues if you do not spend an equal amt of time undoing that interaction.I am not using it blindly but following results with fecal sampling and weigh-ins.

What no one seems to understand that industry has been using this chemical with huge success for quite some time.Tests alone have involved millions of animals not counting the farms in dozens of countries that have used it as a matter of course for years! People in the US dairy goat world have not used it more widely until recently because - one it was hard to get and two it was more than twice the cost until someone built a warehouse in Florida and decided that ordering on computer to an office in Australia but shipping from the US to US customers is ok.

Waiting till later in the kids life to treat as mentioned above is a problem. 
There are stages of cocci that do NON REPRODUCTIVE division and multiply doing damage to the lining of the gut before they mature to reproductive cycles.

This article explains why you do not want to wait to dose and also why you only have to dose once.

http://www.animalhealth.bayer.com/fileadmin/media/baycox/50492263d01.pdf

The pig page is more complete and is still relevant because kids are single stomached when treated for cocci immunity. The mode of action of the chemical is the same.

http://www.animalhealth.bayer.com/fileadmin/media/baycox/Baycox_Folder_A5_72.pdf

It is also effective against Toxoplasmosis.


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## buckrun

This page has additional information. 
Some repeat info but with all three pages you might think perhaps someone has done some serious work with this product. Very good explanation of life cycles.
Lee

http://www.animalhealth.bayer.com/fileadmin/media/baycox/Baycox_TI_061130.pdf


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## fmg

The only thing that worries me, in the environment I live, with only dosing once, is that I worry they have not been exposed or not early enough to get all the life-cycle stages. Because parasites are not a huge problem in these parts, I am planning to use this product, only I will be dosing my kids at least twice at 3 week intervals.


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## Trysta

Lee, so do you just use it for your kids? I can see myself doing that, but the witholding time is scary!


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## NubianSoaps.com

I have treated one doe after she kidded for cocci in all these years. Yes I do prevention treat a doe sick enough to need meds during her lactation because cocci is so opportunistic here. But it should be rare indeed, a time you ever have to treat and adult for cocci. And if you did, the milk withdrawal would be the last thing on your mind. Vicki


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## Trysta

Vicki McGaugh Tx Nubians said:


> I have treated one doe after she kidded for cocci in all these years. Yes I do prevention treat a doe sick enough to need meds during her lactation because cocci is so opportunistic here. But it should be rare indeed, a time you ever have to treat and adult for cocci. And if you did, the milk withdrawal would be the last thing on your mind. Vicki


 :blush Vicki, you are right: I have NEVER had to treat an adult doe for cocci. Totally useless question, I just saw that witholding time and freaked out. Where IS my brain these days? :blush2


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## nlhayesp

When I had fecals run last summer, a 15 month old doe had high coccidia. It really surprised me as she is a big girl and had no symptoms, etc. All my herd was on medicated feed at the time as well. I will use baycox this year and see how it goes. I like the dosing when they are young (small), so you only need a small amount, one time. Hopefully the expensive bottle will last! Also, when I dosed the month-old lambs last night, they seemed to like the flavor; unlike the retching they do with dimethox. Add to that, a one time dose is pretty convenient and easy to work into a very busy schedule; as opposed to chasing, catching, dosing 50 lambs/kids every day for 5 days and keeping them all straight. (I only have 4 different marking crayons!). The 72 day meat withdrawl is fine as I don't sell any lambs or kids directly for meat until they are at least 3 months olds (21 days +72 days= 93 days).


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## buckrun

There are does that could use it but people don't realize what they are looking at because they do not fecal a newly fresh doe that seems to be doing 'ok'.
I have done it to see if I really did need to worm right after kidding and I don't think my herd is all that rare to suffer a bloom of challenges immediately post kidding. 

The old timers around here used to call it 'dry cocci' because there is little to no change in their pellets. Even without all the high tech research going on they still knew that once the immunity of pregnancy drops away to the stress of birthing~ all opportunistic organisms of any kind that are resident will do a bloom in your just delivered doe. We worm immediately post kidding and we supplement minerals known to be depleted so what is so hard to fathom about a doe having a cocci bloom while her resistance is low?

Not having cocci issues is totally dependent on resistance. Resistance is not a constant or level thing-it is not immunity. It is not permanent immunity like with viruses. Being resistant to cocci strains does not mean they do not have them in their body. It means their body is continuously doing what needs be done to keep the populations from reproducing. 

If you have a doe that seems to take too long to recover from kidding- has unexplained clumpy poop-doesn't produce as normal- looks rough despite your other management in place-is stressed from being newly moved-etc...there is a good chance that a cocci treatment would be of benefit. After a certain amt of time when the doe recovers from kidding and onset of lactation and her condition improves ~then the cocci is back under control but in that time frame a stressor is present that does not have to be.

Another good reason to learn to fecal. You can track these things yourself with no continuing expense. 

You will not 'see' a cocci bloom in an older animal with out a fecal because it will simply stress them and you will care for them and not identify the culprit or think it is normal postpartum recovery. It just helps them cope with one additional stress they don't need. I am not advocating wholesale use in your whole milk string but it is more common than you might imagine and a good tool to know about for just that certain case.


Lee


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## Tim Pruitt

Is this given orally? SQ or how?


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## buckrun

Orally~ and it is in a benign carrier that no one minds...creamy and not caustic.
Like Valbazen.
Lee


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## fmg

I don't know why your all goats are so good about taking baycox...or valbazen..mine act like they're being tortured still...


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## Ashley

Mine seem to like it, they will sometimes suck it out of the syringe 

I have not found 1 dose to do the trick for me, however. I had hoped, but nope 4 weeks later they are getting it again. So I do have to give them more doses. I actually dosed these kids 3 times with it. They are still not eating enough of their pellets to get enough rumensin to cover it. They just don't like them well enough, they want to eat other things. 

Perhaps my kids are missing some minerals that keep them from building good enough immunity or something? I know have a copper antagonist as my bolusing causes a bloom of beauty that just doesn't last long. I still need to get my water tested.


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