# excess milk and operation costs



## Dan N TN (Apr 15, 2012)

My wife and I plan to use the milk from our goats for our house hold useage and then (her idea) give it to family and friends. I'm not the stingy type and we give or share alot to our family and community. I however, don't like the thought of getting up at 5 am to milk before work and then again at 7 pm when we get off work plus the weekends, that we could be doing other things only to give away the milk. It's not milking twice a day or every weekend that bothers me. It's giving away my operating costs and hard labor for free that kills me. I can't operate my farm as a charity organization and even though I love to farm I also like to turn a profit or even just covers my operation costs. I have read a ton about the "RAW milk" and "shares" deal in order to sell it. This is what is worrying my wife because she feels that if we sell "shares" to (her) goats that others will be trying to tell us how to operate our farm. She feels that we should try to recoop our operating costs in selling the kids and not sell "milk shares" and have all the hassles that comes with it. 
My question.... What do you all do with your excess milk and what has been the most effective way to cover your operation costs?


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

Everyone is going to have different answers, because the rules vary by state. From what I can tell, in your state, selling or even giving raw milk away is illegal, but herd shares are ok. I don't think that you really need to worry about someone telling you how to run your farm, even if they do own a "share." I think they'd ask about your management and if they agree with it and want to buy a share, they would, and if they didn't agree with it, they wouldn't. (I don't need to do shares here, but I did have a potential customer ask a lot of questions about what I feed my animals and when I told her that they were not strictly grass-fed, she wasn't interested in the milk any longer.) But maybe someone who actually does herd shares will have a different perspective. Of course, they can wish for you to do anything they want, but they can't make you do anything you don't want to do...have a good contract! Anyhow, we do sell some milk (not very much, though!) but I turn some of it into cheese, yogurt, butter, and soap, plus we feed excess to chickens and pigs.


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

Let me just say this - if you haven't even got a goat yet, start small. Have maybe two does for a year or two. See if you like it. See if you like milking twice a day 12 hours apart. Make cheese, make ice cream, make yogurt - enjoy the milk yourselves. Feed extra to your chickens or a hog. After you are sure you like the lifestyle, then go bigger. If I'm understanding you, you are saying your schedule does not even permit milking 12 hours apart. You aren't running a dairy then. Read the article in GK 101 about why people get into goats and out of goats quickly. They are wonderful, but it can be a lot of work.


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## Dan N TN (Apr 15, 2012)

I do enjoy milking (my experience is with cattle) and done it from the time I was 10 until I went off to college. I especially enjoy the morning milking and the quiet time spent with the animals (and thoughts) and how the young ones even though they were just hungry seemed to be so happy to see me coming with my cart of bottles. Due to the way my wife and I work there would be 2 days a week where the milkings would be more than 12 hrs apart. We are starting small with only a couple of does and I am putting my cart infront of the horse here I know. I however, do like to have a goal in place and have a direction to work towards.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

They aren't just a lot of work, they can be just plain life changing. There is a lot you cannot do when you have dairy animals. They are the most difficult and labor intensive livestock I can think of. You really have to love them to do it.


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

Check your laws. Here (Indiana) not only is it illegal to sell milk (except for herdshares), it is illegal to give it away or even serve it to someone who doesn't live here.

If your laws are similar, you might as well sell it illegally as give it away illegally.


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

Looking into the legalities of selling it for pet use is another option. (Gosh, Denise, I didn't know the law was that harsh. Can you serve it to guest in your own home? What about cheese? If the neighbor wants to learn to make cheese can she take it home? I've done a little searching but was having trouble finding the IN laws.)

I don't personally look to milk for income. My interest is in producing breeding stock, and I freshen does more so I can evaluate them and get kids from them, than because I so enjoy milking or dealing with the flood of milk. For my milk needs, I'd be good with a single gallon milker. I'm seeking to produce an animal of consistent type and quality for a niche market. I agree with you that it is good to have a goal - and make it your own.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

From www.realmilk.com

TENNESSEE
Summary:

Raw milk sales for human consumption are illegal. The state Department of Agriculture has interpreted "sale" to even cover giving away raw milk and raw milk products. In 2003, a state representative introduced a bill to legalize raw milk, but the Tennessee Senate Agricultural Committee voted the bill down and it never reached the floor of the legislature.

Raw milk and raw milk product sales for pet consumption are legal, even though the state animal feed laws contain no specific provision about raw dairy products. Producers and sellers must obtain a commercial feed license from the state.

Tennessee Rules and Regulations
RULES OF DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE DIVISION OF PLANT INDUSTRIES
CHAPTER 0080-3-2 REGULATION GOVERNING FLUID MILK AND FLUID MILK PRODUCTS

0080-3-2-.11 MILK AND MILK PRODUCTS WHICH MAY BE SOLD.

Only Grade A pasteurized milk and milk products shall be sold to the final consumer, or to restaurants, soda fountains, grocery stores, or similar establishments


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## kerryandjennie (May 27, 2011)

Once you give something to someone for "free" they expect it free always. The "cheapest" I can keep my goats (2 Nubian milkers) in just feed and hay is about 6.00 a day per head. I *find* uses for my milk because going to the trouble of all the sanitation that is involved with packaging the milk for it to leave the farm.... well, it's like you said, you're not running a charity. Eggs are a little different. I don't have a problem at all giving my excess eggs to a food closet, as they last a long time and because the birds "free range" the eggs cost me little to nothing.  If your FF are anything like mine, you'll still be having to buy milk at the store, anyway. LOL


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

No way would I be setting up a dairy with the intention of giving the milk away...now, I'd give milk to my grown children and grandchildren and close family. Maybe you could barter with the relatives...they get your milk, you get whatever it is that they produce in exchange? 

It's going to cost you quite a bit to produce every gallon of milk too. Right now I am having an absolute flood of milk even though I'm using it for everything...cheese (I'm the only one who eats the cheese or drinks the milk), fluid milk for drinking, soap, etc. Kids lambars are filled to overflowing, and all the extra buckets contain milk for the chickens, dogs, cats, etc....I planned to get a couple of pigs, but the pregnant sow died and had to be replaced by a younger, unbred sow so it will be awhile on that. If you only want milk for your wife and yourself, three goats, with staggered breedings will give you year round milk for all your needs including plenty of cheese and yogurt and won't break your bank and take up all your time every day. And will also allow you a little extra milk for herdshares to help pay the weekly feedbill.


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## Rose (Oct 26, 2007)

I give away milk and cheese and yogurt because I like to do it. Some folks (not all) might make a donation for feed by making a check out to the feed store, but most are just grateful to have the lagniappe.


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## tmfinley (Feb 21, 2008)

What about getting a couple of feeder pigs or a bottle calf to raise for meat? They grow great on extra milk!


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## feistymomma (May 20, 2009)

I find uses for my milk. We use it as milk,cheese,yogurt,feeding kids and soap. There isn't anything left and if there is I freeze it for a rainy day. If you are starting small ( whichever I would suggest) there wont be any to get rid of. Use the milk wisely to gain the maximum usage out of it. I am stingy with my milk because I wok hard for it.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

There are always ways around it. And just because a law says something, like in Texas, doesn't mean anyone follows it, nobody does here....even Grade A dairies initially don't follow the laws the milk inspectors themselves tell them to sell milk, see if you have enough customers and then go Grade A...most who go Grade A early without selling milk for several years are in and out of business in 3.

Goats can eaisly be milked once a day, either from the day they freshen or by letting kids nurse and you milking them once a day. It would be pretty dificult to, on paper, have a profitable farm without milk sales.

I would be curious on your pet sales liscense, it is an excellent way around the law, ours used to be until a well meaning goat gal thought she would have an actual liscense (she in error thought it would help her with liability) so now milk for pet use has to be dyed with veggy dye, of course just like pastuerised milk, nobody is going to buy it to drink.

My way around the law is I sell milk frozen to others who like me, use it to make soap, I sell soap, give soap classes, it would be a pretty tough sell to prove I am doing anything other than this. I have new dairy start ups who buy a box of my soap just to have this out, to use this same premise. There is no law about selling milk as an ingredient that will then not be consumed as food. Vicki


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

Now that my 2 legged kids are grown and gone, I find myself with a ton of milk. To get rid of it I:

feed it to the chickens
feed it to the dogs in a variety of ways-liquid, as custard, yogurt, cheese, frozen pops
keep the kids on milk longer for faster growth
make cheese, yogurt, custard and ice cream for myself
make soap
freeze it for when I don't have any or for when I need it for the kids


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## H Diamond Farms (Jun 3, 2011)

I to freshen my does for breeding stock, evaluating, selling kids, etc. The milk is just a by-product after the kids are weaned. This year we are going to pick up some bottle calves as the kids are weaned. Feed them til weaning on GM, then turn them out as we actual have some grass this year. I plan to get a pig.. hubby, not so much. We'll see who wins, lol. 
Soon as I have extra, I'll also be keeping enough to make cheese and soap again. I'm pretty sure once the kids are weaned though, there will be plenty for me and the calves, lol.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

I vote for the calves or another option is bum lambs. You can usually get them for practically free, they do great on goat's milk, and the price of lamb right now is pretty high!


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## Dan N TN (Apr 15, 2012)

Thank you for all the positive responses’. The laws on farm foods are getting so hard to follow and keep up with that it's ridiculous. Even after all my researching I did not see where the "gifting" of raw milk was illegal and I believe is totally unacceptable and unreasonable. Anyways, before I jump on my soap box and start "ranting" I'll get back on the topic. Right now my wife gets raw milk from her aunt when she milks her aunts goats (hers included) and I assume that this to is illegal and we as parents are just to ignorant to see how detrimental and irresponsible towards our children’s welfare it is. In the past 2 weeks I believe the wife told me that we have gone through between 10 and 12 gallons making cheeses, and drinking it. She has made butter and is going to try her hand at making soap. The pig idea is a good one and I believe that I will use the "left over’s" in that manner. 
Thanks again for taking the time to respond. 

How about the "way"? Does it have much nutritional value or would it just be used a "filler" feed.


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## H Diamond Farms (Jun 3, 2011)

Feed it to pigs or chickens. You can also make ricotta with it.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Dan N TN said:


> Thank you for all the positive responses'. The laws on farm foods are getting so hard to follow and keep up with that it's ridiculous. Even after all my researching I did not see where the "gifting" of raw milk was illegal and I believe is totally unacceptable and unreasonable. Anyways, before I jump on my soap box and start "ranting" I'll get back on the topic. Right now my wife gets raw milk from her aunt when she milks her aunts goats (hers included) and I assume that this to is illegal and we as parents are just to ignorant to see how detrimental and irresponsible towards our children's welfare it is. In the past 2 weeks I believe the wife told me that we have gone through between 10 and 12 gallons making cheeses, and drinking it. She has made butter and is going to try her hand at making soap. The pig idea is a good one and I believe that I will use the "left over's" in that manner.
> Thanks again for taking the time to respond.
> 
> How about the "way"? Does it have much nutritional value or would it just be used a "filler" feed.


You are SO MUCH on the right the track for your vision. GOOD FOR YOU!


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## Rose (Oct 26, 2007)

What to do with whey....

http://www.theprairiehomestead.com/2011/06/16-ways-to-use-your-whey.html


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

I had goats for 3 years and did herdshares (and I am in TN, and if you decide to do that, talk to Farm To Consumer Legal Defense Fund. If you'd like a sample of copy of herdshare contracts, go to the Raw Milk page of my website and scroll to the bottom where there are links for the Caprine Bill of Sale and Caprine Agistment Agreement) I sold out because it was too much work, and really, most folks in our day and age are accustomed to the convenience of Wal-mart and don't get that it's a tremendous burden for them to change the day or time of their pick-up on a whim, when you have several customers. Add to that the stress of liability, the snoopy state Dept. of Ag. folks who make up phony identities to come buy a share and never return or hassle you with phone calls trying to see if you'll break the law for their sob story, and it just wasn't worth it to me to continue. My two-legged kids needed my time more. However, now that we're spending a small fortune on Myenberg and other dairy products, we will be getting back into goats with a plan to do it smarter this time. Smarter facilities to make management better and *not* doing herdshares. Maybe when my children are off to college, I'll have time for that. For now, I'd rather make soap, cheese, yogurt, kefir, or feed it to other critters.


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## Raisin Acres (Apr 8, 2012)

Hi to everyone. This is the first time I have ever posted but have lurked for years and have had goats for quite a while. I am so thankful for y'all and your wisdom and humility to post with problams. We moved to Tennessee last year and have had quite an excess of milk this season. I have friends that want the milk but have been leery because of the legal issues. Frankly, we have been thinking of doing a limited herd share program just to be able get the milk to our friends and not dump the extra after I make cheese, we drink, and feed the animals. I would love to hear more from Stony Heights about their experiences here in Tn.


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

http://www.freewebs.com/stoneyheightsfarm/Caprine Bill of Sale.pdf

http://www.freewebs.com/stoneyheightsfarm/Caprine Agistment.pdf

http://www.farmtoconsumer.org/

Well, there are links to my herdshare contracts and FTCLDF, as mentioned in my above post. If I were to do it again, I would first of all NOT advertise on the Real Milk site. Everyone can find you there and anyone will call about milk. Not that I've not made some great friends through herdshares, but I also met my share of crazies this way, and if you've got friends who want shares and will not be put off by a lengthy contract and a commitment to pick up milk on a specific day and time, then use those contacts.

I would also not ever (I have not, but there is a woman locally who has) get an article about my farm in the local paper. This is discouraged by FTCLDF if you are selling herdshares in TN. It is advertisement for state department of agriculture folks to come check you out. Even without this, I had a couple of experiences which in which I felt as if I was getting checked out.

The first of these was a visit from a family that did not look like a family. The woman was a walking encyclopedia of conspiracy theories, but her appearance didn't fit the crunchy type at all. Not to mention, that most folks who are really such conspiracy theorists certainly wouldn't tell that to a perfect stranger the first time they ever met. She wanted to buy milk to make cheese and wanted 2 gallons at a time, but only wanted to buy one share (so I gave her 2 gallons and told her she could come every other week). She asked me a bazillion questions about what I would do in certain instances, all dealing with the law regarding milk. She seemed satisfied when I told her that if the state ever made herd shares illegal, I'd just sell goats and only milk enough for me--that if it didn't allow me to do that, I wouldn't like it, but it wasn't like they were asking me to sin. She paid $60 for the share and first month's management fee and never came back. I never got my jars back from her and she never returned any correspondence. It was all very odd. The second experience was a man who kept calling over and over and got mad at us because we would not under any circumstance sell him raw milk. He told me he planned on taking it with him when he traveled to and from Chicago for business and wanted a flexible pick up so he didn't have to come every week. I told him I could not sell him a herd share knowing it would cross state lines. He got nasty. He also really didn't want a share and wasn't even open to buying a share with someone else and having them pick up on the weeks when he was out of town. His persistance in trying to get me to sell to him was just plain creepy.

Now other than that, I had fairly good experiences. People for the most part understood the law and were thankful that I was willing to put in the time and effort to provide them with a quality ...share of my herd... and I made some lasting friendships. Because I only have 2 refrigerators and also do eggs, I didn't have enough refrigerator space when folks went on vacation (and they all seemed to go at once!) If I could be more flexible then it wouldn't bother me about changing pick up days and times. If I did it over again, I'd probably give folks a short window and past that, they forfeit their milk to the chickens or something. But that being said, this time around with goats, I will skip the whole herdshare bit and just give excess to the chickens and maybe one day pigs. It was a whole lot of time and hassle that didn't have time or energy for.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Nice to see you back, Billie.


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## Dan N TN (Apr 15, 2012)

It is a crying shame that someone must sneak around as if they were drug dealers in order to sell milk without being hassled my the "powers that be". I am a people person but, I can be down right blunt and to the point when I feel my God given rights are being trampled on. I'm not sure how I would react to a smart mouthed inspector snooping around my farm accusing me. When a man or woman in the United States of America can not feed his family and friends or support and/or offset the costs of his or her small farming operations by selling fresh and healthy products to reasonable, responsible adults there is something wrong. I believe that regulations are a good thing up to a point but, I'm afraid that we have long since surpassed that point. There are so many hoops to jump threw that many just say "to heck with it" and this is what the government and the big farming corporations want and hope for. Atleast that's the way I feel about it.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

The powers that be is the same USDA and health departments that have set rules for big agribusiness for decades, nothing has changed. Should we be exempt from the rules that protect the masses from big agribusiness foods? Because we only have 5 goats, what about 50 goats, what about 500? It's like when your pregnant, seems everyone is.....so just because you are closer to the story now, doesn't mean they are after you...it has always been this way. 26 years ago our laws in Texas were exactly the same as they are now, nothing has changed, nothing has changed at the federal level either to.

Do the milk regs for goats make sense? Of course not, it's because they are patterned after cattle, and we aren't mini cattle. Vicki


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

JFYI everyone posting here...a heads up on this kind of post.
The last person soliciting this kind of information from me (what do you do with your milk and what does so and so do with their milk) was a shill for the USDA and went around soliciting opinions about the milk laws implying he thought the regulations were overboard and the next we knew there was police tape on 2 local dairies and cease and desist orders as well as IRS audits out of nowhere.

This is a public forum meaning anyone can stop by to read and those so inclined to.... report and not even the truth but just that you milk goats and need to be observed. 
There are those who solicit information as a job and actually have training on how to get you talking.
It is called entrapment but only when you do it and not when a govt org does it. 

If you want to work for a change in milk laws there are groups that would love to have help getting a federal milk law that involves legal consent and taking responsibility for your own decisions but in a world where every 3rd person is a lawyer I wouldn't count on it.

Be safe yawl :/
Lee


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

"Verbal Judo" was the book they asked my dad to read as a conservation officer...


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## kerryandjennie (May 27, 2011)

I'm glad you menitoned that, Lee! I was thinking as I was reading this thread that a lot of people are making a lot of confessions of things that are not done legally. I sure don't want to see anybody get in trouble!


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## Dan N TN (Apr 15, 2012)

I apologize for stepping on my "soap box" in my previous post. 

It was never my intention to cause or create a potential problem with anyone by them giving information about this topic. I myself found that I would be in the wrong by simply "gifting" the milk to my family and friends in this topic. I may should have clarified or went into greater detail about the "covering operation costs" part of my question. I meant is it more cost effective in the sense of off setting operatin costs to sell the excess milk (legally), make yogurt, cheese, butter, soap or sell the kids, feeding it to other live stock or all of these things? 

Again I apologize if I ruffled anyones feathers or made them wonder about my true and sincere reason for asking these questions. I am in no way shape or form associated with any government food regulatory organization.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Daniel, no harm no foul, this is an open forum. This conversation comes up all the time, anyone not comfortable talking about what they are doing would not answer the question publically. Vicki


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Thanks, Cindy! Yep, Lee, I had the thought, "I wonder if we ever hear from Raisin Acres on any other topic again?"  If you are up to it, I hear that it's quite profitable to get dairy bulls, raise them for a couple months and resell them. They do great on goat milk and can turn a nice profit. Pigs do well on the milk, too. If you have a separate area you are willing to put stock of unknown origin on your farm that will *not* come in contact with anything, people sell of bucklings in the spring cheap, and goat brought $2.50 a pound on the hoof last year. (I didn't watch this year). Lamb brings good money, too. Find your local resources and regulations, both to buy and sell and see if it's worth the extra time and investment to you. Unless you're raising feral pigs in Michigan, the witch hunt seems more targeted to dairy farms than meat producing farms.  Less liability, too, because people cook meat. When I first started this, I thought it was selfish to not sell herdshares if you have the milk and people need it. Now I think that if they really need it, they can buy some goats!


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## PrairieTrail45 (Nov 28, 2011)

I live in OK and luckily you can have incidental sales of raw goats milk, up to 100 gallons a month. I don't sell much though, mostly because I live in a pretty rural area and most people out here already have a goat or cow that they milk for themselves, or they don't want to pay any more for a gallon of goat milk than they would pay for a gallon of store bought cow milk. We have been getting a couple calves to feed and will start making some soap and cheese this year.

One thing we are going to try this year is spraying the milk on our pastures. A man in Nebraska accidentally discovered that raw milk is very good for the soil/grass. The microbes in the milk will feed the microbes in the soil. Soil treated with raw milk was found to have a higher porosity and less compaction than untreated soil. The grass was also thicker, greener and grew much better. He also got about 1100 lbs more grass per acre when it was cut. Some people in Missouri also tested the milk on their pastures and found it worked very well. At first it sounds like a waste to be dumping it on the ground, but with fertilizer at $675 a ton this is a much cheaper alternative, especially since our place would need about 2 tons of fertilizer. We did a few test spots yesterday and will see how the grass does over the next few weeks. We have horses and with the drought our pasture where they are is in horrible condition, we are hoping the milk will help the grass/soil to recover some from the abuse.

If you Google "spraying raw milk on pastures" there are a few articles about the first man that did it and the people in Missouri.

Perhaps you can sell milk as fertilizer... Not sure if they have any laws against that yet.


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## kerryandjennie (May 27, 2011)

PrairieTrail45 said:


> Perhaps you can sell milk as fertilizer... Not sure if they have any laws against that yet.


WHAT A GREAT IDEA!


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## Raisin Acres (Apr 8, 2012)

Actually I really am legit and don't appreciate the comment. I have been going back and forth on what to do about herd shares and just wanted an opinion from someone who has been there and done that. Thanks for your reply to my question it has helped a bit, but the decision has not been made yet. It does seem like too much of a hassle especially with just keeping the family running some day.


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## Raisin Acres (Apr 8, 2012)

Oh and I want to add that we are feeding the chickens, babies, dog, cats as well as using whey and milk on the garden. My husband has nixed a pig for years and we don't have enough room to have a calf or two even thought the neighbor has offered some of theirs. Just not ready for that yet. 

I guess I am a little put off that my very first post.....that it took a lot to post was responded to in that way. :down


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Look Sherri you are being too sensitive. 
I related a real life experience to hopefully prevent someone else going through what happened to two very serious dairy goat breeders in my area. 
It has nothing to do with you or your post in any way. 
Lee


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

Keep posting Sherri! We're glad you are here.


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

My apologies, Sherri. Somone who has never posted before asking this sort of question could be legit, and could also be with the USDA or TNDoA. You never can tell online, and after some of the stories we have shared among fellow goat folks, a healthy suspicion is not a bad thing. I am sorry that I offended you and ask that you forgive me. Ironically, I post here so seldom any more, most folks that are here often are probably thinking, "I wonder if we'll see Billie post on any other topic again?" 

Also look at making soap--it doesn't take a lot of milk to make it, and you can make your first batches with stuff from Walmart. I bought some from Vicki (and Becky and PJ and...), then made my own, and have not gone back to store soap, it's that much better. I've given some for Christmas gifts and have people asking to buy it. A lot of people have a lucrative family business with goat milk soap.


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

I think it is important to sell some type of product from the goats, whether it is milk or a value added product. We are getting started with soap. Rarely do I see folks' kids sales do more for them than breaking even unless they're cranking out a ton of kids and aren't pouring money into getting set up, or if they have a very well known herd and can ask top dollar. I don't enjoy more than a few kiddings per year, but I love milking my goats each morning and evening. So for us it will be soap this year and will add our pet license next year. I'm very much looking forward to seeing an income, even a small one, on a regular basis rather than the whole operation hinging on kid sales.


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

I attended ADGA nationals last year to watch and overheard one prominent breeder boasting that he has spent over $200,000 on his goats in his "goat carreer". Really, we as smaller breeders look at the prices some breeders get for their stock and think, "If only!" but the amount of money they spend (showing, performance programs, advertising, etc.) to get the name for their herd that can command those kind of prices, may not necessarily pay out. We had 8 shares sold with 3 does in milk and more than that in dry stock, and were not quite breaking even--the chickens help pay for everything around here. However, with children that cannot tolerate cow milk, we are spending a small fortune (over $200 a month) to keep one child in Myenberg from Walmart, and that doesn't count all the cow milk, almond milk, coconut milk, yogurt, and cheese we buy for everyone else. And Mt. Dew for my husband because he won't drink water (but he did drink milk instead before). So, when we add in what it costs for us to have milk, the goats even without selling herdshares were cheaper to keep.


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## Raisin Acres (Apr 8, 2012)

Billie, I understand what you are saying about not knowing who is posting and being careful. Thanks for the apology, no hard feelings here just was a litle surprised I guess. We got into goats because one of our children was "lactose intolerant" at least that is what they say. We found he could drink raw milk without a problem and when our neighbor sold his cows (in another state by the way) we decided to take the plunge but didn't want to do cows, goats just seemed to be much easier with their size and all.

It would be nice to offset some of the costs but like you said, it seems like the times we aren't in milk we spend quite a bit at the store and in the long run the goats are worth it. I have never made soap but have purchased the supplies to try it out this year. We will see how it turns out. It does seem to be a safer venture to recoup some of the costs. 

I wouldn't dare give milk to our friends without doing it in a legal way...no way would I want to get caught so herd share seems like the right option f we choose to go that route. Then I find articles like the one in Washington I think where a whole bunch of families are sick from milk (e-coli) they had through a herd share and wonder if we should just keep it to our family and call it good.

I agree with you on selling kids, they sure do consume alot of time and milk by the time they are ready for butcher or market. I have never made any money on kids but then I don't show my animals so can't get a premium for them like some folks even though they may be really nice animals.

So thanks again for all the information and access to your contract etc. It is very nice of you to share that with us.


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## cheesemoose (Jun 23, 2010)

Have only been in dairy goats a little over a year and meat goats a while back but it seems there are several levels of participation. 1. those with lots of money that are looking at expensive hobby or trying to skim the cream off the top and make some money. 2. those that are in it because they love goats and some of these doing incredible in breedingand wining show and some seem to get in over there heads and get burned out physically or financially. 3. some that are trying to or have created a small bussines to support there family. 

It is like when I tried to do meat goats. I quickly learned that when I opened a bag of feed I started losing money.

For me to make it in the dairy bussines I am looking for shelf stable products that are unregulated and made of or with goat milk. Like some I have hope of a Grade A dairy but as has been mentioned the current laws are not very forgiving for a small goat dairy. There are some states that are supportive of an artisan movement in cheese and dairy products but not many. One answer might be more of a regional coop approach with a single creamery supporting multiple grade a dairy's. 

It ant easy


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Everyone has to find their own niche....my farm certainly doesn't follow any of the examples  Especially what some perceive my farm to be, yeah that is much better :yes


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## cheesemoose (Jun 23, 2010)

what Vicki said.


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