# CAE - NOW ON MY SOAP BOX!



## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

I sent off 20 blood samples for CAE testing to Bio-tracking. All were negative! I did not test the whole herd last year but did test five or six that I was selling - all were negative. This is 15 years of negative CAE test! Prior to that, I had some CAE animals that I had purchased and it spread - but through pasteurizing and testing, I eliminated all of the disease in my herd. I took the hard route and buried CAE positive animals as I didn't have a place to raise the CAE positive ones separately. I have dam raised several generations of animals that remained in the herd but continue to pasteurize the milk for the ones I sell. 

Still a negative herd makes me feel so-o-o good! 

I urge everyone to test their animals and do your part to stop this disease. It is one that our industry must not ignore.


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## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

*Re: CAE - The Good News Continues!*

Congratulations for a CAE free herd!!!


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## Ravens Haven (Oct 26, 2007)

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WOOHOO!!!!


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## Guest (Mar 14, 2009)

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Congrats!!

Christy


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

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Wonderful Tim! It's always good news even when we already know. Vicki


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## Guest (Mar 14, 2009)

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Great news, glad to here it. :handclap


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## megan (Nov 10, 2008)

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Great news!!



> I urge everyone to test their animals and do your part to stop this disease. It is one that our industry must not ignore.


And I totally agree!!


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## catdance62 (Mar 2, 2009)

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that is just super!


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

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Wonderful wonderful news!! Congratulations!!


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## Sharpgoat (Feb 7, 2008)

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dance: Great news!!
I had goats with CAE in the 1980ds it was sad and know fun :down
Yes testing is a must!!
Fran


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## haeema (Jan 18, 2008)

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Awesome Job


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## Theresa (Oct 26, 2007)

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Wonderful news!
Theresa


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## Guest (Mar 14, 2009)

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Good news Tim. I used Bio-Tracking this year also.....was all negative too, and was very pleased with the folks up there. They didn't mind spending time with me to answer any questions that I had.

:biggrin Whim


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## Narrow Chance (Oct 29, 2007)

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Congrats TIM !!!


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## Dover Farms (Oct 25, 2007)

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That's awesome!! :biggrin Congrats!


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## Leo (Mar 10, 2008)

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:handclap Congratulations and Excellent work!


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## Guest (Mar 14, 2009)

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I am super happy to hear this. :yes

Not that I thought you would have any other results. :biggrin

GRATZ!!!!!


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## homeacremom (Nov 6, 2007)

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It is encouraging to me to hear this as I have one doe that is not positive but not as low titer as the others. Nice to know that with culling and raising on pasteurized milk it is possible to clean up CAE without completely starting over.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

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Awesome Tim, now that bug in the back of your mind can be quieted. I have ine too as I am sure we all do Tammy


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## stacy adams (Oct 29, 2007)

*Re: CAE - The Good News Continues!*

Congratulations Tim.. This should give all of us hope that it CAN be done!


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## mill-valley (Feb 22, 2008)

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Congratulations!! And I completely agree as far as doing our part to prevent/stop CAE.


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## shawhee (Jun 28, 2008)

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:handclap Congrats!!


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## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: CAE - The Good News Continues!*

OK - I am on my soap box today. 
Last week I was called by a lady (a newbie) who has recently purchased some $6,000 worth of dairy goats. She called me stressed out but coming back to me to purchase a buck from what she knows is a clean herd.

Here is her story. She was told of CAE and its effects as well as CL but was told she could just manage these diseases by pasteurizing the milk. She explained to the breeder that she wanted to show her animals. She was told just keep the kids separate and raise them to be CAE negative. She also now has abscesses popping up on her goats and CAE kids because she couldn't be there when they were born.

My question is when are we going to quit passing on these diseases to people when we know it will hurt the industry as a whole? In my opinion, no newbie should be encouraged to buy goats saddled with these diseases. They don't have the know-how or the expertise to handle them. Even with my experience, I don't want to deal with swollen knees, hard udders with often little or no milk and sometimes the pneumonia that comes with CAE. I also don't want to keep this doe home that should be in the show ring because she has a problem (an abscess). And that's not the worst of that problem. CL gets in the lungs and any of the lymph nodes as well - and once the germ gets in your soil - you could have it popping up for years to come.

Maybe my approach is too hard but worth it to me in the long run. I culled - slaughtered - (not passed on to some other poor soul) CAE animals some 18 years ago. By continual testing and pasteurizing I eliminated it completely and we have been 15 years free of disease. I still read of people who on their website admit having CAE&#8230; and they have had goats for 25 years or more. Yet, they claim to pasteurize. I don't get it!

A friend of mine quit dairy goats 5 years back after raising them for almost 20 years. I suggested that the reason was that she had too many breeds and too many goats and was burned out. She said, No! it was dealing with disappointment because of disease. Her hired helper was feeding milk that had not been properly pasteurized. My question is why though do we do this to ourselves when testing is available and culling through butchering or separation can be done to eliminate feeding colostrums and milk from affected animals and risking infection?

So you ask me why do I test after 15 years? Because I know too many of the goats in the show barn next to mine - their breeders don't care tiddly-winks about the health of their animals - let alone mine. Why do I pasteurize the milk and feed it to the kids? Because I enjoy more labor and do it for the fun? No! because I don't want the reputation of passing on unhealthy animals to the next guy. I care!


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## Snowpuma (Feb 11, 2009)

Congratulations Tim...you give us all something to work toward, thank you for your hard work and dedication!!!


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## cowboygourmet (Mar 13, 2009)

Congrats Tim, Only the serious breeders take the time, trouble and expense to test for problems like CAE. 
Roy


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

AMEN to your soap box. Wish everyone had this sort of conscious


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## Theresa (Oct 26, 2007)

I agree with you 100% Tim. It is hard enough to be a newbie with healthy animals much less when you have some that are sick. And if you have invested time and money into animals that you thought were good stock, it is very disappointing to find out later that they were not healthy.
Theresa


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## Ravens Haven (Oct 26, 2007)

Yep I agree with you 100%.


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

I agree, too. As a newby, there are SOOOO many things to learn that it can be overwhelming. I can't imagine having to deal with this also. And when you're a total newby--having to build everything from scratch, not just the animals, but the barn, fences, etc. it can be financially and physically draining. I don't see how anyone in good conscience could do that to someone just starting out. With stories of unscrupulous breeders out there, it is nice to hear from those of you who truely care.


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## Guest (Mar 16, 2009)

Tim whoever did that is wrong and in all reality it would not make me feel bad to broadcast their name all over if it was me.


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## NWgoats (Jul 17, 2008)

Absolutely!! I am a relative newbie with goats but I read/talk/ask questions a lot. I do not understand why there are so many breeders with their heads in the sand (or someplace else) about these diseases. I, too, have had some tell me that neither one is any big deal and that it is ok to have those animals in your herd. I have also been told that "The testing is not accurate, so why bother? All goats have the gene(s) for those diseases in their bodies and it could show up in times of stress. I don't want to have false positives ruin my reputation." :mad
Got shafted with my first goat a couple of years ago. Bought her from an "honest" breeder. Turned out, she probably had CAE. I didn't know it was something you could test for at that time, didn't take a chance. She went (for meat). Now I won't buy from anyone who doesn't test and I want to see those results on paper. Not worth taking a risk to my herd health. Sad, but that is the way it is at MY house. 
I also tell anyone I meet that is interested in getting goats the same thing. Don't buy unless it is a "clean" herd. And I can't emphasize enough: RESEARCH,RESEARCH,RESEARCH!!!


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## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

Well Troy,
If it were first hand info then I might would say "do it" but when someone else is telling you and you are telling everybody else.... :nooo That would get me into trouble as I have only heard one person's side of the story. So I think it is best to keep it anonymous. But I tell you it is "buyer beware" and everybody needs to realize how important when dealing with people. That being said, not everybody will do you wrong. There are wonderful people who breed and own dairy goats.


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## Guest (Mar 17, 2009)

Sorry Tim I meant the person you spoke with should tell people not you. I agree it is not really your place. 

We provide a copy of our whole herd CAE negitive test. Just makes me feel better to give people a copy with the registration.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

The sad part of this story comes in that the original person didn't help this new person start better than they did. Having her have to then go to Tim or anyone else. It's how most come to a forum like this, why aren't they getting the hard questions answered by the breeder they purchased from.

Giving your hard earned money to those who don't answer the hard questions just lets them stay in business to hurt others. Now if we can just get all new folks here to the forum before they purchase  

Making a new person feel like they should be lucky to purchase from you, rather than providing CAE Tests, etc., you know if you press to hard they will simply say they "won't jump through hoops to make the sale". I don't think a current photo or seeing CAE testing is hoops  Now you may have to wait on the photo here... :rofl first until someone is here to take it and then upload it! Vicki


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## mill-valley (Feb 22, 2008)

One of my first goat purchases was from breeder who told me "no goat ever died from CAE" and also like mentioned above...had been raising goats for 20+ years, claimed to pastuerize milk and raise kids seperate yet both the yearlings I bought were positive for CAE and one for Johnes :really. 

Wish there were more breeders especially locally who DID care about this issue, so far I've found very few.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

That's why you become the best you can be Beth. Then teach everyone you purchase from....it does pay forward. Vicki


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## Legend Hills (May 29, 2008)

I just bought a dual pasteurizer. It came today. Why did I buy it? It was not because I like spending hundreds of dollars. It is because I have learned about CAE. Even if we do not test positive for it, it is still a VERY wise investment in money and time to do things right. I do not regret the purchase at all. In fact I was delighted when it came. Other breeders should care as much as we do. The goat industry and the goats themselves would be so much better off. 

-Kim


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## KingsCoGoatGuy (Dec 20, 2008)

Vicki McGaugh Tx Nubians said:


> That's why you become the best you can be Beth. Then teach everyone you purchase from....it does pay forward. Vicki


 :yeahthat Very well said Vicki.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Well I meant to say, Teach everyone who purchases from you  Vicki


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## megan (Nov 10, 2008)

This thread hits so close to home for me it is painful.

I was taken advantage of when I started out with goats too. I don't even like to talk about it.

Like Vicki said 


> Making a new person feel like they should be lucky to purchase from you, rather than providing CAE Tests, etc., you know if you press to hard they will simply say they "won't jump through hoops to make the sale". I don't think a current photo or seeing CAE testing is hoops


Exactly what happened to me and it was so wrong!!! She even claimed she was an ADGA judge to make me feel better but I have found out that was a lie too. She knew she had a complete rookie on the line and reeled me in. I had to dispose of my first goats and I am still mad about that.

I have learned to buy from better people now. People with actual test results that they don't mind showing me.

I try to be a good seller. I have sold to people who didn't even know what CAE or CL was until I told them about my clean test results and explained why that mattered. I explain to them how it is spread and the whole nine yards.

I also tell them that I leave kids on the doe after she has tested negative several times. Any doe without a testing history has her teats taped and kids pulled before she ever touches them. Is this the right thing to do??? It seems to work for my herd so I sure hope it is an acceptable practice. I don't ever want to be accused of doing this the wrong way?????

Trust test results on paper!!!! And don't be so anxious to get into goats that you lose your ability to think clearly.

Well, I better get off MY soap box now!!


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

I am so glad I didn't end up with these problems in my first goats. I am so glad I didn't buy goats from the first place I looked. :really Thankfully I just barely knew of CL and CAE to ask, and thankfully she was honest about it. 

I had a lady call me because of my buckling ad in the paper, but she was looking for a milk doe and was trying to see if I knew where one was. She hadn't heard of CL or CAE so she got filled in. :lol


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## haeema (Jan 18, 2008)

CONGRATULATIONS ! ! ! WOOOO HOOOO!


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## Narrow Chance (Oct 29, 2007)

I'm with you Tim.. there are so many who have CAE animals.. and really could care less if it goes down the road or not. 
I can say, I have never had a positive animal, so I can't relate to how it feels to deal with it, but when I did my first test..I had a plan on what to do. It was the right plan for me.. and that was to dispose of the positive animals. I haven't the time nor the inclination to house positive goats for years. ( I see some do.. and that is okay.. just not something I want to do) 

I too feel it is important to let new buyers know that the animals they get from me are negative.. and that I also stress.. that not only do I 'test'.. my 'test' is negative on ALL my animals. Just because someone test for CAE.. does not mean they have a CAE free herd. 
When I sell kids..or cuts.. I show the new owner my original test sheet with the date and the animal name.
Some tell me they trust me when I say they are negative.. but I do it anyway.. just so they know.. and I know when they leave here.. they were negative. 

I also pasteurize ALL my milk.. even though my girls are negative. I really don't want to take a chance that one of my does will pick CAE at a show and then I pass it along to my kids. It just makes good sense to me that my kids are getting milk from the pool of does milk.. and one doe will infect all my kids. 

I know people who are negative.. who don't pasteurize thier milk.. and I do understand the trouble it is to do ALL my milk.. it sure take time.. but in the end.. I KNOW.. whether anyone else does or not that I have done everything I can to decrease the chance of my kids getting CAE. Don't get me wrong.. I'm not anal about it.. I'm just cautious.

I hope that if ever there were a list of honest and trustworthy breeders of good quality dairy goats.. my name would be among those.

Okay.. I'll get off my soap box for now.. lol.


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## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

Good Girl Rhett! You told me a long time ago that I was going to be your mentor and I see you are still following my footsteps!!! I am so proud of you! 

I think it is important we keep testing and eliminating positive animals. This elimination can be butchering, penning away from others or how ever you want to do it. Some test twice a year - that's great and good for them. I don't see that as necessary but I do think testing ought to be done before each kidding season.


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## Narrow Chance (Oct 29, 2007)

:blush2 Aww,,, Thank you Tim ! I do think highly of you and your one of the best.. in my book anyway.
Yes.. when asked who is a honest and reputable breeder... your the first I come up with.
Just sorry I send some weird ones your way.. . but some do get past us.. :lol


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