# too late to disbud - what now?



## lorit (May 10, 2010)

I have a little buckling that due to circumstances (trying to figure out if he was a keeper) is now 5 weeks old and I didn't disbud. I am going to keep him and want to know my best options. The banding seems to get mixed results and reviews. If I could find a vet who does the surgery properly and for a decent price, is it better to do it soon while he is younger - or wait til he is a certain age/weight/size? He is over 30#s at this point and is being dam raised similar to how Tim Pruit lays it out in his article over in goatkeeping 101.

Thanx for the advice.


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## IXEL (May 17, 2010)

I would say either way. I like banding the horns if they are old enough and if I am short on money. Although I like to have them surgically done too, I think it is much easier on them, especially if you have banimine on hand. So I would say which ever way is easier for you.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

banding worked very well for me on two little does last year and no scurs Also depending on his horns you could probably use a calf disbudder I know they have then at TSC or Jeffers and will probably be what a vet has too.


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

I used a disbudding iron with a large tip on an older buckling. Wasn't pretty and had to be done one layer at a time but it got done, he did not grow scurs any worse than the other bucklings disbudded at proper time. Not bad, just the usual small scurs the bucks all seem to grow. No scurs on my doelings with the same technique/time frame . 

Jana


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Is this little guy a swiss breed? If you do go with surgical ask them to do a figure 8 burn as well. We have had some problems with scurs after disbudding and have finally gone to the figure 8. It is in DGI 101 and you can print out the pictures for any vet to look at. I am sorry we haven't tried this before and could have saved some money. The original person who posted this has been doing it and has not had the scurring either. Either way you decide will work. Tam


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I would wait and have them surgically removed this fall when fly season is over. It's quick and easy and you get a perfect head. Vicki


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## Jen1204ca (May 25, 2010)

Do you not have to wait until the horns have stopped growing to band them? It is my understanding that if you band them at a young age they will still continue to grow. True?


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Vicki McGaugh Tx Nubians said:


> I would wait and have them surgically removed this fall when fly season is over.


 :yeahthat

When you do Swiss breeds, here is a more aggressive photo of how the figure 8 is done than in the 101 file. This is all the way down to the bone, done at 4 days. The scabs have recently fallen off, and there is a minute amount of horn material growing, which looks as if it will be a flat tiny scur. Swiss breeds are definitely tougher! Poor guy, for a while there, it looked as if I had removed the entire top off his head!

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## favablue (Apr 11, 2009)

We band them with great results every time. It is best to get someone to show you first. 

If you feel like spending the money and know someone that knows how to surgically remove them go ahead. We have asked around here and everyone runs away from removing goats horns at any age. 

Either way ,like Vicki said, wait until fly season if over. We like to do it in the fall after a good cold snap.

Either way is good.


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## lorit (May 10, 2010)

Well, I talked to four vets and the general consensus was that younger was better than waiting cuz that will avoid the sinus cavity. They all say that the suturing is not necessary if you don't go into the sinuses. They will do it at a higher cost and consider it cosmetic. Here in the cooler northwest they don't think flies will be a big deal - we are still consistently in the 60's - just starting to push 70's.

The vets charge about double what the vet hospital at Oregon State U does. And don't seem to do as much of it so I am thinking both cuz of $ and experience that the OSU hospital will be the way to go. I am scheduled to take him in on the 8th of July. I'll let everyone know if it is a good experience or not - that way you Oregon folks can know about decent alternatives. They are charging $45-50 for everything (office visit, anesthesia, dehorning) which seems reasonable to me. And if I opt for the cosmetic surgery it is only a bit more and he'll look pretty. 

Anything I am missing - or advice given that was inaccurate? To tell the truth I am sort of glad it worked out this way - I don't like the rough heads of disbudded goats.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Looks like a good deal Nice price too, not so expensive. Basically what they will do is give the goat a sedative, wire saw off his horns and burn them. He will be out of it for a little while and may need a bit of banamine the day after. It will help him eat, kill some of the pain, and allow him to move around. So if you don't have any ask for 1-2 doses, it is very painful for them Been through more than enough to tell you my vet does it my way now. Tam


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## lorit (May 10, 2010)

Can I get the banamine myself to have on hand? Or is it a vet only thing? And is there any topical spray or salve that would be recommended for healing and/or protection of wounds? If i find out now, I can order or buy and have everything ready to roll before his surgery. I am giving him his CD&T this week. Then his next booster will be a week or two post-surgery. He's already had his first round of cocci prevention treatment and the second round should be just about a week prior. Anything else to boost his system to handle the stress? Bo-se? If so, when?

Thanx!


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Banamine is a vet script. You need to make sure you tell them exactly why you wish to have it. Pain management keeps littles from having illnesses set in like pneumonia. The pain and pressure on their little heads causes so much tenseness that they can't eat well or drink well. The banamine releases some of the tenseness and allows them to eat and drink. 
Any screwworm spray will work on their heads to keep flies off. Keep the area clean of debri but try not to wash it too much, although a nice cool wash is good once a day for the first three days. Make sure to blot not rub or scrape. I do not use any ointments.
I also give probios and B-complex the night before and probios and baking soda when they get home. Here I am addressing their appetite and the ph of their stomachs. I learned this through experience and this is what has helped with the trauma.
Tam


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Sounds like a good deal. A friend just came by to borrow my iron to take to the vet for her 4 week old kids. They didn't have to go all the way through into the sinus cavity, just sawed off the top of the skull, burned with a larger cattle iron (not mine) and gave her this spray to keep flies away. Something IV. I will have to find out again what that was.


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## lorit (May 10, 2010)

So, we are scheduled for the de-horning surgery at the university this Thursday. Buckling is utd on CD&T, worming, cocci prevention. Anything else I should do to prep him? bo-se?

I am going to ask the vet for some bamamine (sp?) - anything else to ask for or do afterwards?

Thanx!


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## Fiberaddict (Jun 4, 2009)

Thanks for this thread - we have a Cashmere buckling with some pretty good scurs going (good if you *want* scurs, that is :lol ) and a Cashubian buckling with 1 "tip". They're....not quite 4 months old, and we need to do something - they keep getting stuck in the fences!

I need to call the local cow vet and see what they say....


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## NWgoats (Jul 17, 2008)

I purchased a doeling who had not been disbudded. Hers were done at 3 weeks.
My vet did it the same way as a regular disbudding, with an iron. (She does put
them under) Granted, she is a doe and a bit younger, but she had pretty good
horn bases. (Saanen/Nigerian) It wasn't really any worse than regular disbudding
afterward. 

Same with my buckling, who was also done at 3 weeks. Although his head did
look like she had burned all of it off. I got some Burn-Gel at the local pharmacy
and that helped tremendously. Used it for about 3 days and he was fine. 

Next time I am calling OSU as well, my vet charges double that price for a regular
disbudding!! But she has been really good about providing me meds when I have
asked for them. Bo-Se, Banamine, etc.

I do the same as Tami, probios and B/S after.


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## Squires (Jul 23, 2010)

There is something called "scooping" or surgically removing the buds while they are still small with a scalpel. You don't need to be a vet to do it, but the blood is a little intimidating. I saw this done on my own togg kids when I was in 4H. The only vet in our area of New England who would touch goats was a vet who had trained out west on thousands of sheep and goats and cattle. He took a scalpel, dug out the buds. put some blue stuff (blue kote?) on the wounds and it was done. Can be done anytime after the buds have erupted, even a few weeks later. :yes

It made me cringe to watch, BUT, how do you think they manage thousands and thousands of kids in large herds? This has been done world-wide for thousands of years before electricity was invented, and when metal disbudding irons were not yet invented. 

It was surprising to see how fast the kids recovered and healed after "scooping" or surgical removal of buds. Maybe even faster than if the buds have been burned (and theoretically, if you know what you are doing, you can also scoop out the scent glands on buck-kids).

It is VERY important to get the horns out -- they cause all sorts of horrible injuries to other goats and to humans if you leave them on. Unlike some wild relatives of the goat, our domestic goats have very straight horns and when they butt they WILL do damage. It is best to do it early, rather than later. In the first few weeks of life, it is minor surgery. Wait too long, and it becomes major. :shudder


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

Thanks for posting the pic, I have been wanting to see the figure 8 things as I often get scurs with bucklings. Also, I have a series of pics here when I banded Franny's horns...messy but it worked. Let me find it...

When you do Swiss breeds, here is a more aggressive photo of how the figure 8 is done than in the 101 file. This is all the way down to the bone, done at 4 days. The scabs have recently fallen off, and there is a minute amount of horn material growing, which looks as if it will be a flat tiny scur. Swiss breeds are definitely tougher! Poor guy, for a while there, it looked as if I had removed the entire top off his head!
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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

here is a post about me banding Franny and the good results...graphic pics...2 pages

http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,14842.0.html


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