# need help with premixing lye



## a4patch (Oct 7, 2009)

We have been trying to transition over to premixing lye and water.

It has scared us each batch. One batch was ruined. 

Here is what I understand is the process.

measure equal parts lye and water.
In a thick plastic bucket, slowly add the lye to the water and stir.
once the lye has cooled, pour this into a very thick plastic jug.
this should be 2/3 .... one third is lye and one third is water. 
Whatever your lye weight was plus the same measurement of water. 48.75 of lye + 47.75 of water
Pour this liquid into the oils.
Once emulsion has occurred pour in my last 1/3 part= 48.75 of GM.

Am I doing this right? It is accelerating like crazy. We can barely get it int the mold. One batch did not get mixed thoroughly enough and was almost solid in the pot. It was lavender from ND and had lye heavy white all through the soap. At first I though the problem was the lavender because it was a new bottle from ND. But earlier my plain laundry soap did the same thing and later a ND peppermint I have had did the same thing. 

Why is it turning into soap on a stick?

This is the exact same recipe I have been using for years. Same amount of lye, same amount of liquid. We usually have plenty of time to pour and add color.

Suggestions or advice.....I was hoping this process would streamline things. It may give us both heart attacks.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Are your butters and oils liquid? Because you are starting your mixture with a really steep discount, you really have to have it liquid. I then use room temperature goatmilk.

I have had others email me about acceleration when adding cold goatmilk so I did it a few times, I had no problems at all with cold or warm or room temp milk.

Emulsion is when your oils and butters are starting to change, the gloss is off the oil slick on top, it isn't anywhere near trace (trace is supposed to be when you lift your stickblender or spoon, and soap stays on the top of your pour for just a second) I never go to this trace. My soap is in the mold way before I get to trace, perhaps you are adding your milk way to late?

Yes, premixed lye like this 50/50 is all I do, makes soaping really quick, but it doesn't accelerate anything, it just takes away a few minutes of stick blending. I also always strain my lye water mixture, always. There is always flakes and gunk in my lye mixture because it sets and you aren't going to stickblend or shake this stuff back in.

I have used ND lavender forever and it doesn't accelerate at all.

You have your math correct, I have no idea why this is not working for you. Vicki


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## Lynn_Theesfeld (Feb 21, 2010)

You might be getting a form of false trace I have had this happen a few times when I first started using a premix.
What I do is add my mix to my oils. Stick blend until it is all mixed in and yes it will be at trace....Then add your GM and usually I whisk that in, until it is all mixed. at that point it is actually broken up and rather "loose" (for lack of better word) at that point I stick blend a little and then add whatever I want. Depending on what I'm building I add FO at all different spots, sometimes straight to my oils before the lye.

Hopefully this will help!!!!

Lynn


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

I haven't had any coffee yet, but I'm not quite getting the 1/3 part. I normally use all goats milk, but have also used quite a bit of premixed lye water. Never had acceleration or any ruined batches. 

For the premix I use 16 oz of water to dissolve 16 oz of lye (approx. depending on recipe) Once it is cooled I keep it in a bleach jug. I only heat butters that are not melted at this time of year like cocoa. I add the lye solution and stick blend until it starts emulsifying, then add my milk, which is 16 oz (yes, I discount my liquids, all of them). I think it comes to trace a little faster than using cold milk cubes and lye, but it's not too bad. 

In the end, I am using exactly 1/2 water, 1/2 milk for my liquid portion, everything else is the same.


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## a4patch (Oct 7, 2009)

my measurements are based on a 340oz batch. So my lye is 48.75. 

Could I use a larger amount of milk at emulsion (yes, we are calling emulsion when the oily transparent look is gone off the soap)

Would it hurt to add the milk earlier (like a little transparent look but cloudy not clear)


our oils are melted. I am wondering if they are too hot??? 100 degrees or around 100.

We are working on another batch today,looking forward to hearing from you. We will see what happens.


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## Faye Farms (Sep 14, 2009)

For the most part I think adding stuff at trace is a waste of time and complicates things. (There are some instances where I will, like when I am doing a reverse swirl, but that's about it) Milk gets measured out and added to the bucket when I am measuring out my oils. That way when I stick blend the full amount of liquid is in the bucket.


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

Anita, her 1/3s were 1/3 lye, 1/3 water, 1/3 GM. 

Peggy, like Heather, I add my milk to the oils and stick blend that before adding the lye. That's also when my other whole batch additives go in (clays, exfoliants, etc). So yes, you could add milk earlier.  It's a lot easier and gives you more time. And 100 degres is not too hot.


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## Dorit (Apr 20, 2011)

Peggy, I have to laugh because this lye/water mix had me and a friend tied up in knots till someone on this forum called me and explained it. In case you can use another explanation here it is: when getting your total lye and water requirements from a soap calculator, subtract the total lye oz from the required water oz . So if it tells you that you need (off the top of my head) 32oz water and 18 oz of lye. Subtract 18 from 32= 14. So weigh out 18oz of water, and 18oz of lye, mix the lye into the water. And store. So you are left with 14 oz of water needed to meet requirements of soap calc. So instead of water use this amount in GM.
BTW this is how I premix the lye. I still buy the 2lb plastic bottles because that is manageable for me. On a day that I don't feel like making soap, I get a lot of distilled water on hand, line up my lye bottles, I have a large lexan pan like they use in restaurants. I fill this pan with ice. Next I weigh an empty lye bottle and tare this, put a filled lye bottle to get the exact amount that is in the bottle. I weight out that same amount in water into a plastic pitcher, add the lye and stir like crazy. After a few minutes, using a funnel I pour this into the same empty bottle, set it into the pan with ice. It is still very hot but it has never been a problem. I do this for about 20 +/- bottles. HTH, Dorit


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Dorit, please don't pour hot lye....wait for it to cool!

Why not just pour 3 or 4 bottles worth of water into your container and then start adding bottles of lye, stir well between them and keep adding more...let the whole thing cool and then pour into your bottles.

I do the whole 50 pound bag in batches so it isn't anything I really want to do in the house with my asthma. I prefer doing this part outside, eventually the soap room will have a deck outside in which to do this on. 

I will check a temperature of my oils and butters right before I add the lye water tonight.

Sure you can add more goatmilk, but honestly I don't think less than the same volume of water into the same amount of lye really melts the lye well. Adding more milk is also going to give you more soap by volume in your molds and also a much longer cure, because milk is fluid that has to wick out.


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## Dorit (Apr 20, 2011)

Vicki McGaugh Tx Nubians said:


> Sure you can add more goatmilk, but honestly I don't think less than the same volume of water into the same amount of lye really melts the lye well. Adding more milk is also going to give you more soap by volume in your molds and also a much longer cure, because milk is fluid that has to wick out.


I don't understand: I add equal weight of water to equal of lye. I substitute GM for the remaining required water. Is this not accurate? Or were you addressing the 1/3;1/3;1/3? Dorit


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## a4patch (Oct 7, 2009)

I will try the method of adding the milk prior to the liquid lye mixture. We have been making soap like crazy. Agd had another soap machine invention that is stirring it outside without us near by. I will post a link once I finish the video.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I was answering Peggy's, can I use a larger amount of goatmilk.....


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## a4patch (Oct 7, 2009)

We have been adding the milk and fragrance and coloring before adding the liquid lye/water mixture. this has worked like a charm.


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## a4patch (Oct 7, 2009)

Bumping this...
We are gearing up for the spring market and have not made soap since December. It has been a nice break but we need to make some soap. We are still having problem with acceleration and soap on a stick. Something has changed and I am suspicious of our last batch of lye. it is red crown/high test from boyer. I do not know it is the lye, but how on earth after all these years, has our same recipe, same tools, same method started to accelerate? I thought it was the pre mixing, but it is doing it both ways now. It is very stressful to try to get it into the mold before it sets up. I would hate to buy more lye just to experiment when I have 50 lbs sitting right here. There has to be something I am overlooking. How do I do a process of elimination to find out what the problem is?


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

Is it doing this with all of your fragrances? (For example, in my experience, lavender actually slows trace, whereas clove and cinnamon definitely move things along faster.) Some fragrance reformulations to eliminate phthalates affected how the fragrances behave in soap. Are you sure that you are using EXACTLY the same recipe? There is a huge problem with adulterated olive oil out there...and whereas real extra virgin olive oil is a very slow mover, adulterated olive oil is probably not. That would be one possibility. Pomace olive oil, while nice in soap and what I use all the time, is also a MUCH faster mover than EVOO. So if you are thinking olive oil is olive oil but have changed from EVOO to pomace, that would change things for certain. Increasing the percentages even slightly of some oils can also affect things. Castor oil is one that comes to mind as being prone to moving more quickly on you. I think that it is unlikely to be your lye, to be honest. Is there anything else that is different in your methodology? For example, did you used to use a whisk and switched to a stick blender? Things like that.


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## a4patch (Oct 7, 2009)

all fragrances.
our recipe is very much the Walmart recipe.
Temperature around 100.
Don't use olive oil.

I did get a new batch of lye, which is why I have questioned the Red Crown High Test Lye. 

For right now I am going to try not using our SB as usual, but using a spoon until it is mixed. 

The acceleration is sooo stressful.


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## tlcnubians (Jan 21, 2011)

I'm not sure if I can explain it any better than anyone else, but I can share what I do. First of all it takes an equal amount of liquid to dissolve an equal amount of lye (basically a 50% lye solution) and anything after that is just extra liquid that will have to evaporate out of your soap before it's totally cured. However, you have to keep in mind that the stronger the lye solution, the quicker it will cause the oils to saponify, so you have to use enough extra liquid to slow the process down to a workable point. For me a 37.5% lye solution is the easiest to work with. Any stronger and I have issues pouring it into individual molds. My basic recipe calls for 13.5 ounces of lye, so when premixing I use equal parts of lye and water (usually 137 total ounces for an afternoon of soaping) and then measure out 27 ounces of that liquid for each batch. To that 27 ounces of liquid I'll add 8 or 9 ounces of cold goat milk (depending on the fragrance I'm going to use for that batch) and float the new mixture in an ice water bath until it reaches 80 degrees. When my lye/water/milk mix reaches 80 degrees and my oils/butters have reached between 110-120 degrees, I pour my lye/water/milk into my oils and stick blend for 20-30 seconds, add my fragrance, stick blend for another 10-20 seconds and start pouring into my molds. If I'm swirling in a colorant, I do that at the very end after I've added my fragrance; if I'm coloring the entire batch, it goes in before I add my fragrance. Working my soap this way gives me 5-10 minutes (sometimes even longer depending on the FO/EO I'm using) to pour 25-30 individual soaps into their molds without the soap becoming too thick to work with.

Caroline


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## a4patch (Oct 7, 2009)

I think that one of my sources has made a slight difference in their product. I am not sure if this is the lye or an oil. I am suspicious of the lye and coconut because both are these are purchased in bulk and were new containers when my problem began. I think something unknown changed at the same time and by coincidence I tried to premix the lye. SO I think I thought the premixing was not working. I went back to my old way of mixing and still I have acceleration. 

Tomorrow we will try stirring by spoon and lowering the temperature of the oils. I will let you know how this works.


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