# Day 152 -- 154 Updated (Bad Results)



## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

My doe is on day 152 and not much is happening. She is a 5yo, 4th freshener. Her vulva is getting longer and pinker, but there is no goo. She's eating, drinking, peeing, and pooping fine. Ligs are still there, but softened slightly. She is starting to udder up.

I am 100% certain of the due date. Should I be worried? She is CAE+ so I MUST be there to catch those kids. I have a baby monitor on and haven't really slept in 3 nights - too much barn noise with the chicks, horse squealing, and puppy.

Thanks for any help or advice.


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## Twillingate Farm (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Day 152*

Cindy, I can really feel your pain! All three of my girls that have kidded so far were 155 days. The doe that was due last Friday is still due and shows no signs other than fading ligaments. I've spent too many nights in the barn trying to sleep on hay and the milking stand (I'm 6' 3") while freezing my butt off and trying to ignore the chickens and fence charger. Just as I'd finally fall asleep, the goats would start moaning in unison to wake me up and then we'd start all over again.

My wife won't let me keep the baby monitor on in the bedroom since it keeps her awake and the flickering from the closed circuit TV monitor wakes her too. I'll really be glad when everyone has kidded out this year since I may be looking for a new wife soon... :rofl


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

*Re: Day 152*

Thanks, Allan. I needed that.


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## lorit (May 10, 2010)

*Re: Day 152*

Here too they have all gone 155 days. :-/ They like to keep you waiting


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## chell20013 (Feb 7, 2011)

*Re: Day 152*

Oh man. I hope I haven't cursed myself by reading this. I've got two right now on day 140, but I had miscalculated their due date, so I've been waiting all month long. I wish time would move faster


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## Guest (Apr 26, 2011)

*Re: Day 152*

Some will induce labor so that they can be there for the kidding.. I use to when I worked and wanted to be there.. Not so much now since I am retired.. but I don't have any CAE positive does to watch.. Camera's in barn can help and are relatively unexpensive.. Two cameras and a small tv might cost 150.00 and save you many trips.. Baby monitors for sound help also..


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## Twillingate Farm (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Day 152*

Well, Daisy Mae delivered a single buckling last evening at 10 pm so we managed to get some sleep last night. Not too bad in her case... only 153 days.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

*Re: Day 152*

Congrats, Allan. So now it's day 153 and..............NOTHING, NADA, ZIP. I did sleep better last night, though. The hum of the rain on the roof drowned out the barn noises.

I just have visions of a kid not in the right position and that's why no signs of labor yet and then it gets later and later and realizing maybe I should have done something.

I was thinking of luting her, Barb. I read up on it yesterday.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Day 152*

As you can tell from reading the 159 day dead kid thread, there should be a little more plan of action going on. I don't have Alpines to know if normal birth is 155 instead of 150 like Nubians (nearly clockwork thankfully) but someone with Alpines a long time knows. And then how many days will you let them go overdue before giving lute, milking them, doing a pelvic and getting things moving. By having the drugs on hand, knowing due dates, especially with CAE positive does, you give the shot, you have kids in 36 hours. If she is already overdue you still have to wait 36 hours more for lute to work...


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## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Day 152*

It is not uncommon for Alpines to go over. Cambrell went over by about 4 days here this year. Just examine her really well. Make sure there is no amniotic fluid leaking. Make sure there are no signs of labor at all, stretching, yawning, pawing, digging the earth all of that jazz. If she is perfectly fine with no tell tale signs of distress or labor, she is eating normally, etc.. then I wouldn't be worried for 3 or 4 more days. Past that though and you are certain about breeding date then I would probably go ahead and give her 2 ccs of lute and be at home the next couple of days watching closely.


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Day 152*

Alpines do tend to carry kids longer. But, I don't let them go much past 152-153 days, because Alpine kids can get big. Those heads and shoulders can cause you some problems.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

*Re: Day 152*

Yes, after reading the overdue doe thread with the dead kid increased my concern. Add to that, she kidded last year with a single large buckling that got stuck, well, I'd like to avoid all that, if I can.

I gave her the lute this morning.

Thanks, everyone.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

*Re: Day 152 -- 154*

Finally showing some signs. Pawing the ground, murmuring to me. Ligs are loosening up. No goo yet, though. It's got to be today.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

*Re: Day 152 -- 154*

Bad, gruesome delivery. I went in to check presentation and couldn't get my hand too far past the pelvis. Started delivering, one hoof and a head. Called the vet as I couldn't do anything with it. He came right away and he couldn't do anything with it either. And he tried and tried with much maneuvering and still couldn't get it. He had me go in again, but I could not reach the leg to pull it forward. We ended up sacrificing the kid. He had to dismember it to get it out and even then, he still had a hard time. Her pelvis is just too small. It was a large, single buckling, just like last year. We will not breed her again.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Sorry Cindy....you can usually see narrowness starting in the chest and going back through the escution, in some breeds it starts right in the head. Do you use bo-se before breeding? It did away with our single big huge bucklings when my daughter bred Lamancha's. Vicki


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## Lynn_Theesfeld (Feb 21, 2010)

Sorry you had such a hard time with this, with a bigger disappointment  HUGS!


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Very sorry to hear this . I was really hoping it would turn out better for you. More sorry you had to go through that awful delivery.
Tam


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Thanks, everyone.

Yes, I gave BoSe a couple of times because her pasterns were really down. She is actually quite wide in front, wide head and chest. She is a big-bodied doe. But not very wide in the escuetcheon, maybe.

Looks like she's having contractions so I'll be looking for the placenta soon. She is up and eating and drinking so I think she'll be fine. I'll check temp as a precaution.

Thanks, again.

ETA: Oops. Just saw the PRE-breeding. Yes, I BoSe pre-breeding, too.


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## Legend Hills (May 29, 2008)

Did you make sure there wasn't another one in there? So very sorry for this horrible experience.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Yes, the vet checked.


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## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

Oh man. Sorry to hear this.


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## carlidoe (Jul 30, 2010)

Man, so sorry. At least you (and the doe) will not have to go through this again. Sorry again


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## linbee (Jul 7, 2010)

So sorry Cindy. What an awful thing to go through. Very sad.


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## sarafina (Dec 26, 2009)

I am asking this to learn in case I ever have to deal with this in the future..... If you wanted to breed this doe again to keep her in milk or for her genetics, couldn't you just induce a few days before her due date to keep the baby from getting too large? Since you said she is CAE+ you may not want to breed her again anyway, but just curious if there were other options.

Sorry you had to go through such a sad ordeal.


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## Fiberaddict (Jun 4, 2009)

Oh, Cindy - I'm sorry! BTDT (sorta) this year, so I feel for you!


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

sarafina said:


> I am asking this to learn in case I ever have to deal with this in the future..... If you wanted to breed this doe again to keep her in milk or for her genetics, couldn't you just induce a few days before her due date to keep the baby from getting too large? Since you said she is CAE+ you may not want to breed her again anyway, but just curious if there were other options.
> 
> Sorry you had to go through such a sad ordeal.


I thought of that this morning, too, although I have to say in her case (CAE status aside), her pelvis is really, really small, so I would not even chance inducing her early.

But sure, in another situation, I would think that could be considered.


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## Horsehair Braider (Mar 11, 2011)

Cindy, I think that's really wise. I too offer my condolences on a bad outcome. But still I think you are smart. This may very well be carried down through the generations. Why risk this again? Who knows what doelings from this line might produce. No need to deliberately breed for a heartache.


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## nightskyfarm (Sep 7, 2009)

I am sorry you had such a hard delivery to deal with. Why if she is narrow and obviously she is since she had a hard time last season, would you want to create offspring. Is her pedigree what you were trying to expand on? To top it off, CAE+ brings so many problems and concerns into the already questionable scenario. I think it is a very good decision you have made not breed her again. Things will get better, they have to.


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## nuzmom (Sep 17, 2010)

Cindy - I also want to say how sorry I am that you had to go through that. I can't imagine! Our Alpine girls delivered at day 152 and 154. The big doe at day 154 ended up with one big buckling. I thought that delivery was scary enough. Hugs.


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

I had one doe this year (LaMancha, 3 yr old) about a week over due, was a bit scared to do something about it, since she was bred at someone elses place so I wasn't 100% sure about the breeding date. Then the first thing kidding-wise I saw of her was a bit of brownish mucus, so I knew that was going to be big trouble. Turned out she had two dead bucklings in her uterus, wasn't fully dilated and it was close to impossible to get them off. With help from my son, who held the doe, got it done though. She's a beautiful show-doe, doing okay now, but had a very rough start, and is not nearly milking what she did last year (now 1 1/2 month into her lactation). Now I have a Saanen doe, 2 yr old, 2nd kidder, know exact breeding date, overdue, so I gave her 3 cc lute. No kids yet after 36 hours right now. Worried. Some of these does keep you on your toes...


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

nightskyfarm said:


> I am sorry you had such a hard delivery to deal with. Why if she is narrow and obviously she is since she had a hard time last season, would you want to create offspring. Is her pedigree what you were trying to expand on? To top it off, CAE+ brings so many problems and concerns into the already questionable scenario. I think it is a very good decision you have made not breed her again. Things will get better, they have to.


Last year was my first kidding season and she was my very first experience. I was led to this forum after she had kidded. I didn't know about going in and checking for position or anything. It was only this recent kidding that I was aware of how small her pelvis really was. And how would I know that sh would carry a single, large kid again? Thanks to this forum, I know a heck of a lot more today than I did a year ago.


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