# Hi- newbie goat owner health concerns



## prettypaisley (Aug 9, 2010)

Hi. I've been strongly encouraged to come over here to ask for help for my doeling. Here's the rundown: 

Millie is a Saanen who was born April 4th 2010. She currently weighs 78#. I took her to be bred for three weeks in December since I'm too new to know when she was cycling. She and the buck got together on Dec 31, 2010. The woman at the farm asked me to bring her back 16 days later and let her stay another 5 days so we did. This go round, the day before she was to come home, the woman's mother overfed her sweet feed (which I do not feed her at home) and she developed scours. Their vet came and took a look at her and gave her 2 doses of Bio-Sponge and sent her home. 

She was fine for about 5 days, her poop was soft but not watery. Then on Saturday she began to have very, very water poop. I called the vet and he said she needed more Bio-Sponge and to come to the office the next day to pick it up. I talked to the vet that had seen her at the farm that Monday and he told me that she would also need 14 days of penicillin to control clostridium. I asked if I could bring a sample of the poop and he didn't think it was needed but I pushed him and he said they would check it. 

There were high numbers of coccidia in the poop (the vet tech told me she stopped counting) and another parasite as present as well. I left with 14 doses of penicillin, 4 more doses of Bio-Sponge, a jug of Corid and a single 20cc dose of something I can't recall of this additional parasite. 

One dose of the Bio-Sponge later she's pooping berries (we did still finish the course). The vet told me today to stop the penicillin, mid-course, as it was only needed until the berries were back. 

At this point I’ve pretty much had it with the vet. I am not a goat and do not know much about them, but in addition to not wanting to start antibiotics, I’ve always heard that you aren’t supposed to stop them once you start. 

I’m at a total loss. Any suggestions on how to fix my girl and keep her healthy? 

Thanks so much!


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Mar 2, 2009)

I'm glad you came here.  Give it a bit of time and the more experienced goat people will be along to help you out


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## prettypaisley (Aug 9, 2010)

Thanks Audra.


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## Angela (Feb 13, 2010)

Shannon! I am glad you are here! Welcome TO DGI - I was just going to send you an email to come here! 

Angela


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## prettypaisley (Aug 9, 2010)

I feel the love!! <3


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2011)

Worms are my first thought, she was taken to another farm and could have picked up a worm burden there.. I would worm her with a good wormer at least twice doing this 10 days apart.. Ivomec is safe for pg goats... when she gets farther along in her pregnancy I would worm her with a liver fluke wormer.. or white wormer.. 
I would also be giving her some vitamin C, can put this in her water... vitamin B and Bo-Se... all of these support and help immune system.. 
Copper is another thing to look into to see if you need this in your area.. When goats have the right amt of copper, they manage to keep worm burdens under control 
Good clean water and lots of hay.. she will be ok.. 

there is no reason to jump on the antibiotic wagon unless your doe is running a temp or truly sick.. 
Barb


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

And for more info about antibiotics go to:
http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,43.0.html
Tam


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## Theresa (Oct 26, 2007)

HI and welcome to the forum!

My understanding is corrid will not treat cocci it only prevents it. I would get a sulfa drug and treat her for cocci and then possibly worm her. (please put your location in your profile) Your doeling is probably stressed from moving back and forth between the 2 farms. The stress brings on cocci and worms.

Also, 78lbs is a little small to be breeding. You will have to make sure that she is on good feed for her to finish growing herself and grow kids. What are you currently feeding her? You also want to make sure she has access to a good mineral.

Is this your only goat or do you have others?

Go to Goatkeeping 101 and do alot of reading. There are many good articles there that will help you. Start a goat binder by printing all the information that you think will be helpful. That way when you are out at the barn you can quickly look up what you need to know. And most importantly, ask questions! That is how we all learn!
Theresa


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

You have been given great advice, I just wanted to say welcome!


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## Dana (Dec 7, 2009)

Welcome Pretty Paisley, I like your name, and also hope your doeling gets better. I'd say get her dewormed like others have said and then deworm her again in 10 days. Make sure she is getting hay and maybe lay off the grain until she is pooping normal. Then slowly increase her back to her grain to keep her growing. She is still small, so let her have free choice hay and keep adding alfalfa pellets and quality grains to her feed while she grows out. At around 1 or 2 years old most goats have slowed down their growth spurts and can be on a smaller amount of grain. But goats grow for their first 3 years of life so don't limit them unless they are looking fat.

Keep asking the questions so you can learn all the wonderful things about goats!

Dana


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Welcome to the forum. 
Where are you located?
What parasite was seen in the fecal?
You really need to learn them and their life cycle in order to know what remedies to use and when.
What was the medication you were given for the parasite?
What do you feed and how much how often?
What is your hay and forage?

Did the goat cycle the second breeding session or was she already bred from the first? If you picked her up on the 21st day when she would have been cycling from missed breeding you may have picked her up too early to know if she was bred or not. The cycle is 21 days between heats. 
You need to note this so you can determine due date and care procedures based on that.

Your vet was less than enthusiastic about a fecal because it is not accurate during diarrhea. And wintertime rarely shows eggs from parasites because the conditions on the ground are not that great for survival of the larvae. So he was thinking it would be futile as far as identifying parasite load which he probably is already familiar with in that area. Rather than give up on your vet I would try to establish a relationship of good will and maybe you can learn about goats together. You will need certain RX supplements and medications that can come from nowhere else. 

You need to watch under her tail on the bare skin or hair there for signs of slipped pregnancy. (mucous or blood) In such a young animal at so low a weight with little nutrition taken in at a critical time (early gestation) she may end up not bred. If this is the case I would thank my lucky stars and let her recover and grow a bit before trying again. She would have a very difficult time growing herself- growing her kids and giving you any extra milk starting out this way. 

If she maintains the pregnancy you will need to give her premium care.
Let us know what she is already eating so we can identify any deficiencies she may run in to. The most important thing is to go slow with changes so you do not aggravate her already stressed digestion. Try to find some DiamondV yeast supplement that is labeled DFM. This supplement has a wide range of microbes that will help her to quickly re-establish the things she needs to start getting nutrition from her food again. If you cannot find any of this product let me know and I will mail you some.

Good luck and get back to us with additional info.
Lee


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

She is also feeding fescue hay.


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## prettypaisley (Aug 9, 2010)

Yes-they've been on fescue and when we give them grain (which we did daily until Millie got sick) from Countryside Natural Products because we don't consume soy or want our animals eating soy products.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

I would like to ask if your hay producer is knowledgeable about endophyte positive fescue?
If they are planting and harvesting a negative variety that is fine but if they are baling up the native infected species then you may want to reconsider that as hay. There is much research on E+ fescue and the negative effect if harvested when seed heads are up.
Does your have have seed heads in it? Do you know your hay man well enough to ask him if his hay is E- ?

In lab animals endophyte infected diets have caused lowered sperm counts, lowered egg production, weight losses, abortion and absorption of fetuses, poor lactation, smaller than normal litter sizes, and slow or stunted development of young that were born. 
Documented problems in goats include but are not limited to...
Does passing their kidding due dates by as much as ten days or even more.
Does with little or no milk. Some does never develop an udder.
Contractions so weak that the doe requires human assistance in delivering her kids.
Birthing sack so thick that the kids cannot get out unless the producer tears it open.
Unusually thick umbilical cords that are tough to break.
No cervical dilation at all in some does.


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## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

I just want to add that the Bio-sponge was a great idea on your vet's part.... Probably saved her from a full blown case of clostridium. My good friend uses it for both her goats and her alpacas (and she is quite the authority on alpacas).

Good stuff.

And penicillin can be used from 5-14 days, depending on the situation, so he didn't necessarily make a bad call there. 

Last remark: 78 lbs and 9 months old - she should be able to handle the pregnancy just fine. Do make sure she is getting either high quality alfalfa hay (best) or alfalfa pellets.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Camille, would you breed a new persons goat if it showed up at that weight and age? I am of course talking Nubians, which a doe at that weight and age shows a management problem usually, that if not fixed would lead to issues during the end of pregnancy. Like this one, a diet of no calcium. Vicki


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## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

Ah - I have this bad habit of assuming that the animal is being managed well - wormed, fed quality alfalfa etc.

My bad. 78 lbs would not be an indicator to me that the goat was not being fed well... seeing the animal can make a big difference.

My Saanens get bred between 7 and 9 months of age - and sometimes right around 80 lbs or so. They seem to get a growth spurt after they are bred. And they get another huge growth spurt as coming 2 year olds. They are not smaller than their same age counterparts in the show ring (varies a bit with the bloodlines) and kid with ease and milk very well. So I know that they are okay.

And yes, I have sent people home who have shown up with goats to be bred that are not in good health/flesh. One was a nice Percentage Boer doe that I had sold the people the prior Spring - in 4 short months they had her looking like a skeleton. They said that she had been bitten by a spider and had lost condition. Okay - but still not going to breed that doe when she looks like that!

So when you say Fescue hay you mean ONLY fescue hay? That is crazy. (Sorry to hurt anyone's feelings). I assumed (and yes, I know what a-s-s-u-m-e stands for :yeahthat) that they were _also_ being given fescue hay (in addition to alfalfa or alfalfa pellets) and that there were potential problems attached to any fescue hay (and y'all seemed to have covered that).

And I was a little bit responding to the general notion that 78 lbs and 9 months old was too small - which it is not if the management is good. Helps to know your bloodlines as well - for goats that will mature at 150 lbs, this is plenty good. Thumbnail (and I will qualify that "with good management") rule is at least 50% of the mature weight of the animal.

Last comment - Personally I wouldn't raise any Saanen without alfalfa (or clover) as their main staple in their diet. Talk about a train wreck when you expect a high production animal like a Saanen to produce kids and milk like 1-2 gallons/day without any calcium in their diet....


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Thanks Camille. Vicki


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