# Caseous Lymphadenitis



## Natural Beauty Farm (Feb 10, 2009)

So I seem to be hitting everything this year.

My question is how does everyone deal with this?


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## homeacremom (Nov 6, 2007)

Sorry, if I even suspected CL I would put the goat down immediately or at minimum quarantine her in an metal trailer that could be seriously disinfected without rinse water going anywhere near foot traffic or anywhere the rest of the goats have access or will have access in the next 10 years. Or in something that could be burned if a positive ID is made. For that matter you really don't want abcess draining on to human contact areas either. 

For a positive diagnosis the animal would be put down and the carcass disposed of carefully.


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## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

Yup agree with the above poster.


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## Aja-Sammati (Oct 26, 2007)

I was doing a paper on CL last year (which I never finished, lol)

1- Don't panic!
2- Isolate the goat (metal floor on that trailer, too, as CL soaks into wood) while you confirm diagnosis.
3- Test, testing the exudate from an abscess is the most accurate way, blood tests are very interesting in their interpretations. For detailed info on blood test results, I recommend talking to the pathologist at WADDL, very informative!
4- If the goat is + dispose of or make some big, bad decisions... Disposal- this would be the time that you might want to have the renderer come to get the carcass...or burn the carcass, yuck!

Now, if you have a goat with an abscess it might NOT be CL, so don't panic! I had two goat injure themselves and get big hematomas that looked just like abscesses, in a similar location. I've had a buckling get a fox tail awl abscess (the awl worked through the skin in his mouth into the layer between his jaw skin and muscle) that we freaked over. Not every abscess in a "CL" location is a CL abscess! 

Now, if the goat has come from a CL exposed/positive herd, or is CL +, that is different. Then you can panic!


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

I'm sorry if you have this disease. Quarantine/euthanize immediately. And you will need to continue to watch the other goats for a long time to see if they get it. Humans can get this disease, so be very careful.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

We had CL in our dairy part of the herd, they were isolated with the CAE positive does who were the backbone of our milk. The does were kept shaved so we could see abscess immediatly and most were removed by me unless it was on the jaw, then my vet would. We removed the abscess whole and sent it to UC Davis for testing. Because of the agressive way we treated this we never had it pass and there were 25 does per pen. Scotia would have an abscess a year, usually always coinciding with kidding (I guess for her the most stressful time of year because she also was the hider of when she was kidding, never jumping a fence in her life, until in labor and finding her out in the woods with 3 little ones). Back then it wasn't 'she came from a herd who had CL' it was more like we didn't really know what it was, or how virulant it was so we all did crazy things, sliceing and diceing etc...the nonchalant way most deal with CAE now. My vet knew better and wasn't thrilled I was keeping the does after the diagnosis. But I needed the milk.

I gave up my milk contract when my oldest daughter graduated from High School and sold her nubians to pay for college, that area layed fallow, and then I got into boers (their crosses with nubians were the guinea pigs to see if the trees and fence posts were infective, they were not....the barn was torn down an the whole area is actually my new garden today. For years it was pasture only.

Test, you have to find out, and not every lump and bump a goat gets is CL.

If you purchased these from the same farm, it's pretty likely if one has CL all has it. If you let an abscess burst onto your place or lanced it, it's pretty assured most of your goats have it, worse is that your barn becomes infective. One goat bursts and abscess on a splinter on a wooden key hole feeder, this same splinter now has CL on it, the next goat then pricks herself on the same splinter and becomes infected. Corny on your hoof trimmers can infect one goat after another as you trim feet and draw blood, or trim feet and have a doe in nasty barns you didn't infect at a show, or shaving, it's how sheep herds become infected at shearing time.

Find out for sure what is going on and let us help you. Vicki


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## Hollybrook (Jul 17, 2009)

Im sorry to hear the trouble your having but I question the validity of a previous post about humans contracting CL? I'm basically new to the goat world and only respectfully questioning so that I/we can have a better understanding of things.I searched CL there is even an article in Goat Journal about it being very common in Europe. From what Ive read CL is caused by corynebacterium pseudotuberculosis which the most notable human infection is diphtheria but when i search this backwards to goats it just doesn't jive seems the organism is similar but different can someone explain? What would be the clinical manifestations of if I can CL (goat corynebacterium pseudotuberculosis) in humans? I haven't been able to find a link. Humans get/have alot of nasty bugs just remain asymptomatic.

Thank you
Dave


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

It's passable to all warm blood mammals. In each species the cornybacterium is called something else. I know this is just goggable, since anytime it is brought up on any forum you can search for names found in horses, dogs and humans. Vicki


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## mill-valley (Feb 22, 2008)

CL is one disease I would be pretty strict about. CAE is just much easier to prevent and get rid of...but CL is hard to kill in an environment. I would be thinking hard about how important your current goats are to you and how hard you are willing to work to get rid of this. Can you feasibly set up a whole new area, shelter, feeders, etc to put clean stock in? You can get kids out of infected stock, pull at birth and raise on pastuerized milk, keep in your "clean" area being super careful not to cross-contaminate with your clothes, boots, feed buckets, etc. Test and test and eventually weed out every positive goat and let your old facilities rest for a few years. If you have accurate test results and your goats are indeed positive, you will be fighting this for a few years unless you decide to ignore it. Also...you will have a hard time honestly selling breeding stock. I would buy from someone with CAE as long as they test and pull kids, etc but I wouldn't take the chance with CL. 

The other option is to start over....which may be the quickest but not always possible either. You still would need new barns/ground and you still will be on pins and needles wondering if it will show up again.


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## Aja-Sammati (Oct 26, 2007)

I didn't want to hijack this post, so I posted my CL research in a new thread...


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## Bella Star (Oct 27, 2007)

I would isolate and test and IF the goat was CL+ with a lump ,then it would be put down, I would wait 3 weeks and test ALL my herd and IF they tested positive BUT I saw no CL lumps, I then would wait a month and retest at another lab and at that time IF they all tested CL+ ,they all would be put down. I then would get out of goats. Sorry but I just dont and wont deal with puss goats with the diseases that people get nowdays that are not curable. I wont drink milk that might have CL puss in it and I have seen on TV about what CL does to meat and I just dont have to raise goats as I raise goats now for fun and as a hobby... guess I would say hello... rabbits or Dexter cows :yes


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## Natural Beauty Farm (Feb 10, 2009)

This is a doe that is already in quarantine. Someone was getting out of goats and I bought the herd. She did all the right things, I have the test results for the last few years. Really great looking animals from good farms. 

Saw abscess as I was checking everyone out in the morning, got her away from the herd and into the driveway where she was re-penned until vet could come remove and clean. She was re-penned a third time and everything was burned, Clorox that came anywhere close to her where the vet was working.

It was really an over night appearance. I check on them twice a day. All of this herd is still on the former farm, so my herd is safe I hope. I had clothes for just that farm and I showered at a friends that only has horses before coming home.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Where is the abscess located? I had a doe have an abscess on her cheek. I gave her some herbs and colloidal silver and it went right away, amazingly fast actually. But anyway, it wasn't CL obviously, thank God!


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## mill-valley (Feb 22, 2008)

There are many causes of abscesses besides CL. If you haven't had the lump tested or a positive blood test....I wouldn't be panicking yet.


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## SherrieC (Oct 26, 2007)

If I have a goat come down with a lump, the first thing I do is assess that goat, is this goat important to my herd? has this goat been on my farm long? Is it a recent addition?
If its' a recent addition and not important to my herd overall, the offending goat is whisked off to the nearest auction/hungry family OFF my farm. I do not put them down on my place. I deal with CAE the same way if I would find a suspect.
Now if the goat has been on my farm a while, or important. I quarantine and test. There have been a few weird lumps over the years that were nothing. I Haven't had a test come back yet positive on CL. After reading all that Vickie has posted over the years I think I've probably overzealously sent around half a dozen or more goats to an early death due to bug bites. arrrgh.
I did have Two Saanens come down with weird neck lumps this year in the same place, that went right back down again. It was a huge spongy allergic reaction on the upper neck line right where the hair is missing due to constant rubbing on the stock panels to eat their hay. Scared the crap out of me, but They were both born here and the one is 7 yrs old. And only been off the farm for one show. so highly unlikely for CL, the lumps came and went so fast they didn't get tested. : ) must have been bug/sun combo


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## Aja-Sammati (Oct 26, 2007)

I think as conscientious goat owners we think the worst when we see a lump anywhere- I know I have! I have had abscesses that I had the vet drain, I say- I've never had any CL on my place...he says- and you still don't NOW, where would they get it? He knows I buy carefully, bring in stock reputable breeders, and am careful with my herd. But he still reassures me...while rolling his eyes 

The hungey family idea would be okay with me, but not the auction, too much chance of passing a problem on to somewhere else unless you are assured the animal is going to slaughter, imo.


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## SherrieC (Oct 26, 2007)

Yes, but thats why you shouldn't buy at auctions lol!! You're right though. If I for sure knew an animal was dieseased, I should be ashamed if I auctioned it off. But you know of plenty of folks that just don't care a dollar is a dollar is a dollar.


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## Natural Beauty Farm (Feb 10, 2009)

Yipeee it not CL!

She is on antibiotics. I had kept it cleaned and drained so there is nothing left right now, just a scab. Kinda feel funny that I went over board with the cleaning and sterilization, not. Neighbors thought I was funny though putting on show, burning everything as I left each time. They still get to see the hazmat suit though since my vet gave me a hundred of them. Think he was more excited with the news than me, and that was a big deal for a cattle vet guy.


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## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

Great! Where did you have it tested?


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Super!!!


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

That must be such a relief. Very happy for you. And better safe than sorry with your hazmat stuff. 
Lee


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