# Selling Milk?



## Ozark Lady (Mar 21, 2010)

I had always believed that it was illegal to sell raw milk in Arkansas.

Last weekend, I had folks tell me otherwise, and I looked it up.
Apparently it is okay to sell up to 100 gallons of goat milk per month, on the farm, this is called incidental sales. Wow!

I have requests for goat milk. At the moment, all my milk is going to feed baby goats, which is fine... I need some time to get my brain around this new information.

Before I sell even that first gallon of milk, what would you advise me?
If you had it all to do over, what, if anything would you do differently?

I really need input here, my brain is just reeling with this information.


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## todog (Dec 10, 2011)

lawyer up! get the advice of an ag. lawyer. draw up a contract like a herd share and have it approved by a attorney. do not listen to other farm people.


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## Qadosh Adamah Lamanchas (Nov 2, 2012)

I would definitely contact the Farm to Consumer Legal Defense Fund and join them before entering into any milk sales.


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## Nancy (Oct 25, 2007)

It is legal to sell up to 100 gallons a month in Arkansas, but the milk must be picked up on the farm.


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## Ozark Lady (Mar 21, 2010)

That is what I found when I read the law too.
I was just wondering if there are other factors to consider.

A wise man/woman seeks a multitude of counsel.

I am seeking counsel, because I want to be wise.

I just really don't want to do something that is illegal.

And I wanted to be aware of things not illegal, but problematic before I even start.

I have found ads offering fresh raw goatmilk for sale in the area, I suppose I should call them and ask them for input? Would they view me as competitor and steer me wrong? Would they help? Who knows? huh!

I know folks on here, have no vested interest, so I would get honest, if different answers.


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## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

Spring 2009: Arkansas currently allows farmers to sell up to one hundred gallons of goat milk per month at the farm. HB 1114 would allow the sale of up to one hundred gallons of raw cow milk per month as well. The tradeoff would be that the bill empowers the state board of health to make rules providing for the random inspection of farms producing and selling raw milk and to issue regulations requiring the seller to have a warning sign at the point of sale and warning labels on the bottles. The bill was referred to the Senate Committee on Public Health, Welfare and Labor.

From WWW.realmilk.com


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

I would have a printout of rules and expectations for your customers.
We did this for many years and it gets to be insane jockeying everyone and their changes in plans and requests for special circumstances. Hard and fast customer rules would be my first and foremost change to working with the public. There are many things that need to be made plain so you are not at their constant beck and call such as if you don't show on your day for your milk which I collected processed and made available to you as promised- don't expect any till the next time your day rolls around for if you leave it sitting instead of taking the responsibility to come get it- it is no longer fresh milk which is what my customers are buying and I have to process it into something else which is not part of the plan. etc...

I would have a location where they could serve themselves so that you don't spend 2 hours of your day catching up on the family doins just to sell half a gallon of milk. If you have several customers a day it will be all that you get done just to be polite. Don't be there unless you want to. 

I would price high and hold it. If you cannot pay yourself for your time in your calculations at least be competitive with what the market will bear. 

We used to sell in half gallon glass jars with them leaving empties when they pick up fresh milk. I did the final sterilization on the jars before filling but they brought them back clean. 
I hate adding to plastic waste but I would consider going to plastic to avoid having to lift all the glass several times each day and adding that extra dishwasher load every day. 

I would and did print out a story of my care of my stock as well as my processing of the milk and cultured products so they understand why the price is what it is. 

Most importantly I would make sure of who my customers are and work only with people you know or come to know over time. We had some nasty shenanigans going on with people trying to pose as customers to look for violations of not just agri law but tax law and animal cruelty and just general snooping etc. Do not deliver! Do not advertise. 

There is no need for a lawyer because there is nothing written anywhere on earth that will protect you if you make someone sick.
And there is no way for you to prove you did not make them sick if they think you did.
Our entire nation should have milk laws like Arkansas but it would involve people actually being responsible for their decision to purchase raw milk from a farm situation. You know....the used to be premise of buyer be AWARE!
Good luck!
Lee


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## Ozark Lady (Mar 21, 2010)

Thanks, so much for the input.

I really, truly appreciate you taking your time to answer me!

I am a bit wiser already!

I did have mixed feelings about dealing with people, so dealing with folks I know would help that somewhat. But, I bet I don't "know" them until they are a customer!

I already know they will want delivery, but that is not what the law states! Either they want it enough to come get it, or they are trouble already.


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## Goat Town (Nov 20, 2010)

I sell raw milk under Oklahoma laws which are very similar to the Arkansas laws. I put a link to those laws on my website and follow them. Based on my experience I will not deliver milk to customers. I do not allow people to bring their own containers. Milk priorities are first babies, second household needs, thirdly sales.


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## Ozark Lady (Mar 21, 2010)

If you do not allow customers to bring their own containers, where do you get containers?


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## Greylady (Mar 28, 2012)

http://www.dahltechplastic.com/ is where I got some.


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## nightskyfarm (Sep 7, 2009)

www.usp.com has jugs for milk/food products. I have found shipping is lowest in increments of 50


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Ozark Lady said:


> If you do not allow customers to bring their own containers, where do you get containers?


You can get 1/2 gallon glass mason jars either online or perhaps at TSC (we have Rural King here who carries them). Do you have a Big R down there? They carry them, as well. They are just regular canning jars, but in 1/2 gallon size. I don't sell milk, but I use the screw on white plastic lids. I use washable marker on the lid to date them. Rinses right off.


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## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

Jennifer,
The link you posted didn't work - please post again. 

Do you order the 1/2 gallon size or the gallon?


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Your local milk bottling plant will normally sell you bundles of jugs.


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## Goat Town (Nov 20, 2010)

For years I bought plastic jugs and lids from the Hiland bottling plant in Fayetteville , Arkansas. It was about a 60 mile drive for me. But a couple years ago they stopped selling me the half gallon size my customers like so much. I switched to the Borden bottling plant in Tulsa, OK. It's about a 70 milke drive for me now. The Borden plant has different policies regarding lid sales and size I had to buy 2500 lids, I made the commitment to stay with Borden.


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## Ozark Lady (Mar 21, 2010)

Too bad Fayetteville isn't good anymore, it is only 30 miles away! Now Tulsa we are talking 110? there about anyhow. At least, both are pretty much interstate highways all the way!

What about soda bottles, I am thinking of the dark green ones? I think that I have seen local soda bottling companies. They would be food grade, and dark to exclude light from milk. I recycle, repurpose soda bottles to store baby goat milk in the frig.

How do you sterilize the new jugs? They are plastic so hot water is likely not possible.


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## Goat Town (Nov 20, 2010)

Check with Hiland in Fayetteville. I quit buying from them only because they wouldn't sell half gallon sized jugs. If all I wanted was gallon sized jugs, I still buy from them.


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

The problem with pop bottles/soda jugs would be cleaning them. If you are using milk jugs from a dairy/bottling plant, they should be clean when you get them, I would think. 

I agree wholeheartedly with Lee. Think through how you want to deal with people and come up with firm rules. Remember that they won't understand that you aren't like a grocery store where they can just show up whenever and get however much milk they want. If you tell them that you need advance notice for them to come over and pick up 4 gallons of fresh milk (because they don't want frozen!) they will think that calling you at 9 am when they want to come by at 10:30 am should be plenty. They won't understand the necessity of letting you know when they plan to skip a week, or if they need more milk than usual because they have company visiting. They will tell you that they want 3 gallons EVERY week and then, when they come to pick it up, decide that this week, they really only need ONE. For me, knowing how well I deal with that sort of nebulosity (which is to say, not well at all), I had to stop selling milk. Drove me crazy.


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## Ozark Lady (Mar 21, 2010)

Another good point! I hadn't thought about folks wanting more or less than they had agreed to. When I bought milk I had a set amount, a set price, and a set time to pick it up. If I missed, I lost my milk.
And extra always required a day or two notice, to adjust the saved milk. But, I had experience milking, and was only between freshenings, so likely easier to deal with.

I was thinking of using the soda bottles only one time. I usually only use them once for milk and then they get thrown out, but soda is pretty easy to get out, for using for baby goat milk. I have family that drink a lot of sodas so I get a lot of bottles.

How expensive are containers? 

I am just getting so wise, I am going to save all of these posts, they are great! And I bet there are many watching this thread with interest. 

Thanks one and all.


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## PrairieTrail45 (Nov 28, 2011)

I get my milk jugs from Swan Bros. Dairy in Claremore. I can only get 1 gallon sized jugs though, they come in bundles of 48 with locking lids. They were $0.50 each jug, but they upped their price before the new year and I can't remember for sure, but I think it is somewhere around $0.60 each now.

Last year I would buy a few bottle calves, how ever many I needed to use up excess milk. Of course they were much cheaper last year, but much more consistent than a human customer  We also took some of the extra milk and sprayed it on the pastures. One are we used it on was almost completely bare, 2 months later we baled almost 20 round bales off of it. You can google spraying milk on pastures for more info on that. I only have 2 milkers and 4 bottle kids right now so I don't get a lot of excess at the moment. I have just started to make cheese and soap though, so I may try that route. Made some delicious goat cheese and ground venison manicotti's about a week ago


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## Ozark Lady (Mar 21, 2010)

I saved a link to buy Guernsey calves for $100 each.
I paid that for a calf 25 years ago! It was a Beef Master/Holstein not Guernsey though.

How do you make money raising calves? Sell them in paper or auction? With feed and hay prices up is it worth doing now?

I should be milking 6 does once they all kid this year. 2 will be ff.

My cheese making is sort of hit and miss, some turns out good and some not so good. 

I do have kefir grains and could make kefir milk.


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## Greylady (Mar 28, 2012)

PrairieTrail45 ~ In spraying the milk on your pasture, how often did you do so?


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## Ozark Lady (Mar 21, 2010)

I found quart sized glass milk bottles...
http://hoeggerfarmyard.com/xcart/1-Quart-Traditional-Milk-Bottles.html

That doesn't sound like a bad price if they are good strong bottles, and they also sell new lids for them.

Interesting, I want some of those bottles whether I sell milk or not!


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

Which raises another point. People, in my experience, are TERRIBLE about returning bottles. So expect that, too. Require a jar/bottle deposit so that they will be more inclined to bring them back and, more to the point, so that you have enough money to buy more jars when they don't.


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## Ozark Lady (Mar 21, 2010)

My husband is not happy about the idea of folks arriving to pick up milk. He would be fine with delivery. I think it has already been mentioned about how folks could want to visit all day and this would be a nuisance.

So, I mentioned bottling a calf and then selling it at weaning. He then pointed out that our pasture would not support calves. I would need a new area, which would not have any grass at all and would need fencing. They would need hay for bedding and later for munching and grain to get them off of the bottle. I have previously bought day old calves and colostrum then bottled them and raised them to freezer size.

So, if I limit milk sales to: only 6-8 people that I am comfortable with, charge $5.00 deposit on $3.00 bottles, and bottle feed a calf or two... that should about use up the milk. 

Is cheese made from the milk considered as part of the 100 gallons of milk per month?

Is it profitable to sell soap made from goat milk?

I am really mainly looking for a way to help defray feed/hay costs.


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## PrairieTrail45 (Nov 28, 2011)

We only sprayed the milk once last year, I think we did 2 gallons of milk per acre, we had 18 gallons of water to make 20 gallons of "solution" per acre. From what I have read about it if you do it a few times the grass is supposed to really bounce back and come in thicker and greener. It is supposed to aid the porosity of the soil and also feed the microbes in the soil. The areas that we sprayed you could see a noticeable difference from the areas we did not spray. The grass was much greener, as opposed to slightly yellow. The main reason we didn't do it more was because we had several calves by then (we got a couple free ones from a cattle ranch that didn't want to bother bottle feeding) and it was so dry over the summer I don't know how much good it would have done.


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

I fed soured milk to our sweet corn. I didn't give it to all the stalks. It was VERY noticeable looking at the rows which plants got the milk.


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## todog (Dec 10, 2011)

lol bottle feeding corn. ha ha ha sorry that just hit me funny. we sprayed half of our yard with milk and it looked great. yes it feeds the microbs, they like the sugar. when i trade milk for work, i use half gallon canning jars with the plastic lids. i have them buy two cases and they bring back almost as many as they had taken. when it comes to delivery, here in ohio you must have a license to delivery milk. check your laws. i have a fridge out where milk can be picked up and they never see me, but i have a camera on them.  again LAWYER UP!


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## Ozark Lady (Mar 21, 2010)

Oh, I already know that milk cannot be delivered. It is just that it would be our preference, not what we are allowed to do.

And I did the research, no, cheese is not in the milk law. Cheese is a processed food, and it is considered hazardous because it must be temperature controlled, so you must have a licensed, inspected kitchen to sell it. Milk may not be processed, no kefir, yogurt, or even chocolate milk!

The reason for limiting to 6-8 that I would be comfortable with is: they would have to come to the farm.

I use milk diluted and sprayed weekly on plants to keep down fungal issues... it is anti-fungal. I figure it is anti-fungal and foliar feeding all at the same time.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Check with your state's Dept of Ag. They will have the laws for milk sales, or know where to point you, so you can get all your ducks in a row.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

No need for a herd share or anything. Just sell it off your farm only. I sell it frozen and I've not had trouble with customers trying to hang around too long. Just kind of set the precidence the first time they come. Hello, I'll get your milk, just a sec... here's your milk, thank you, have a nice day see you later! No most people seem to be in a hurry anyway, so I don't have to even try. I do tell people, the first visit about how to handle the milk, how to thaw it, to make sure and gently turn it upside down a couple times after thawed to mix it back together as the top gets water etc. Don't shake it, keep it chilled, it's fragile so on and so forth. People love it and I never seem to have enough. Sold $50 worth the other day! Sure helps with feed! And it seriously makes me feel good inside, I love producing quality food. 

But I am careful to keep things so that I can feed my herd without that money.. because never know when I might be suddenly disallowed to sell it.


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## Goat Town (Nov 20, 2010)

I made a jug run to Tulsa yesterday. I hardly realized it's nearly a 180 mile round trip and cost $30.00 in gas! Consider building that expense into the sales price of your milk.

While there, I asked if they had a distributer in either Muskogee or Fayetteville since either would be closer than Tulsa. "No," they said, "The next nearest place is OKC."


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## Ozark Lady (Mar 21, 2010)

Thank you so very much for asking them!

My vehicles are not fuel efficient, so it would cost me even more than that to go 180 miles round trip!

Hey, I am gathering a lot of great information here!

Ashley, where do you get containers? Does frozen milk thaw and have the fresh milk texture? I think that I also would need the instructions on thawing it, because I thought once frozen it was only for cooking. The few times that I have frozen milk, it ended up clumpy and wouldn't mix the solids back into the liquid part.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

You just have to freeze it immediately upon milking. Get it chilled and then get it in the freezer. 

For containers, there is a lady in our church who uses spring and distilled water and gives me her empty jugs. Also my mom makes herbal extracts and I use the empty vodka bottles . Handy as they are already sanitized from the alcohol. My aunt buys a lot of my milk and she gives me her empty water jugs as well. But I start selling much more and I will have the same problem...


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## Goat Town (Nov 20, 2010)

Here's something else to consider when developing a sales policy: Supply and Demand. In an earlier post I set up priorities for the milk supply: babies, first, household second, sales third. But what happens when demand is high and supply is tight? Let me illustrate.

I ran out of milk jugs to bottle milk for sales. Recent winter weather delayed a trip to Tulsa for more jugs by more than a week. I could only bottle a limited amount of milk for sales and household use. I had to pasteurize the rest for babies or make cheese out of it. Demand was still there and I was doing the best I could without turning away buyers so I would not lose market share.

Then my vet refers a customer to me for milk to feed his new baby goat. I tell him I will not sell him raw milk because of CAE issues. This guy will not take no for an answer, even when I told him to feed whole cow milk from the store. So after much discussion I agree to sell him a half gallon of pasteurized milk, knowing full well it would "short" my babies. He came after his milk and I charged him double for it and gave him the number of the Grade A goat dairy, telling him he had to feed that baby pasteurized milk and that if he insisted that it be goat milk buy it from them.

Now supply is even tighter and demand is still high. So I make a decision to buy enough cow milk from the store for a daily feeding of my babies and bottle up the goat milk for sale to meet demand. Even one day will give supply a chance to catch up with demand. I won't make as much money on it because I bought the milk to feed, but I can now meet demand and not turn away my market.


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## Ozark Lady (Mar 21, 2010)

Oh wow, you did end up in a tight spot.
I bet you felt sorry for the guy's baby. 

With that tight of a supply and demand, do you have your babies on a set amount of milk that they are allowed daily, so that you can budget your milk?

Have you tried milking through? The mama of my triplets, milked through for 18 months with about 80% of her usual milk production. She rested for 3 months and then delivered the triplets.

I am terrible about falling in love with kids, and I don't want to keep so many goats, so I prefer milking through, when it works out.
The triplets are 2 does and a buck, I am already pretty sure that I will be keeping the does, unless I get more nice does from the next ones to kid, then it will be forced decision. But already, that is keeping 40% of the 2013 babies on the ground... I am terrible.
And then, my husband is a sucker for the underdog, he falls in love with the one that I need to cull... figures! At least, she is weaned! I am nervous as I see my husband playing with and loving the buck kids! This could get out of hand again! I once got up to 35 goats, and that was work not fun!
That said, do you have a weaning age, or case by case basis? Do you have a limit of how many you will keep and your replacement rate? How do you budget all of that in to your milk allowance? I have plenty of acreage, it would be fencing, facilities, and my energy that would be the issue in herd swelling larger and larger.


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