# Cloudburst or ?



## Hearts In Dixie (Oct 29, 2007)

This doe is new to my herd. She is a full size Nubian. I purchased her two months ago having been exposed to the buck for three months prior to me buying her. She was in with a buck at my farm also. He has shown no interest in her and was moved out ten days ago. Her earliest possible due date is Wednesday 12/12. Three weeks ago I noticed she was beginning to make a bag. Each day last week I notice the bag is getting bigger and she looks like she is getting ready to deliver. Last Wednesday 12/5 her bag is huge, firm and her teats appear to be filled out. He tail is wet but no discharge or blood. Her vulva doesn't appear to have delivered any kids. Her ligaments are gone. Checked her several times over 24 hours...nothing. The following day she has a wet tail with no blood or discharge and her bag appears to be softer. Now a week later her bag is getting smaller. She still looks pregnant. No fever, good apetite, acts normal. Was this a cloudburst? 

Thanks,
Marla


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## Qadosh Adamah Lamanchas (Nov 2, 2012)

I had a doe do that once, and yes, it was a cloudburst. I fortunately saw it happen, so I knew it. Did you search around to make sure she didn't deliver a dead kid somewhere?


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## Hearts In Dixie (Oct 29, 2007)

There is an experienced male Pyr in the pen so if she had delivered he would have stayed with them until I found them. There is no way anything got in the pen and got out with a newborn kid. I am stumped.


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## Guest (Dec 10, 2012)

Would the dog have eaten the dead kid?


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## Hearts In Dixie (Oct 29, 2007)

No he would have laid by it until I came and found it. He lives for those goats. Her vulva remained normal, never got that stretched look to it. Her tail is always wet but water wet not bloody discharge wet.


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## funnyfarmtexas.com (Oct 3, 2012)

i have heard that they have a normal lactation period when this happens.


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## Qadosh Adamah Lamanchas (Nov 2, 2012)

Mine didn't have a normal lactation when it happened. Her hormones went on the fritz and she began short-cycling every few days for a couple weeks on end until she finally settled on a breeding again.


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

funnyfarmtexas.com said:


> i have heard that they have a normal lactation period when this happens.


Not always the case...............of the very isolated cloudbursts I've had over the years, very few milked.


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

One of my does had a cloudburst like that this year. Yes, her tail was very wet, and there were puddles of fluid lying around on the hard ground that morning. No blood though at all. She had bagged up, and I milked her afterward but the milk was not like colostrum at all. She did not stay in production like a doe that kidded either. I milked her a couple of days to relieve the pressure and then she just slowed down so much that I didn't need to milk her. She is hopefully bred now


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Same experience as Janie.

I think with biotracking you can spot this with a pregnancy check. I knew the last one I had that her pregnancy was not normal, with a positive test for pregnancy from biotracking....something was just not normal, another test revealed via biotracking she was no longer bred, she delivered fluid. Vicki


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## Hearts In Dixie (Oct 29, 2007)

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on this. I was afraid that this was indeed a cloudburst. I will watch for her to come back into heat and rebreed. 

Thanks,
Marla


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

You mentioned earliest possible due date, but the way you described it, it could also be that she was due a lot later. In that case it could have been an abortion at 3/3.5 months. You don't always find the fetus(es) then either, and also there's not a lot of blood involved. I just had a doe abort yesterday, basically what you describe (wet tail, doesn't look pregnant anymore, just not really bagging up). I assume it was an abortion, I didn't think about a cloud burst. She was tested pregnant by ultrasound a few weeks ago and was due January 20. Now I will just keep a good eye on her and breed her again as soon as possible.

I know abortions are not uncommon, but it's always like this: since those end short term, it's usually the first thing you have before kidding season, and I am a bit of a worry wart, so I always have to force myself not to go in the panic mode (oh-no-what-if-there-is-something-going-on-and-everyone-is-going-to-abort-what-did-I-miss-do-wrong-forget :eek). Can't wait for some good healthy kids to be born.... :sigh

I hope you'll get your doe back on track and bred again, good luck!

Marion


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## Hearts In Dixie (Oct 29, 2007)

*Re: Cloudburst or ? *

Last night I bumped her and could feel kids. She just delivered a set of live twins. Now she doesn't have any colostrum. Her bag is flaccid. Last week it was huge.

Thanks,
Marla


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

That is great news! Except for the no colostrum...that is odd. Do you have any saved up? If not, you may need to give those kids colostrum replacer or cow colostrum. How are the doe and kids doing? What is her diet? Maybe she is lacking calcium, so isn't making colostrum? Is her temperature and behavior normal?


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

Ha, the crazy surprises these animals have for us. :yeahthat frozen colostrum or colostrum replacer is crucial. And give the doe a few days, she may still get going.


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## Qadosh Adamah Lamanchas (Nov 2, 2012)

Has she been tested for CAE? I've heard it can cause little/no milk production.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Milk her, Marla. And keep milking. Hopefully that will get her going. Also, check her temp, check for mastitis. If she had a bag and now has very little, that's what I would worry about.

I always keep colostrum replacer on hand, just in case. All my herd is young so I don't have enough to freeze for later and I'm always worried about something happening. REPLACER, not SUPPLEMENT.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Qadosh Adamah Lamanchas said:


> Has she been tested for CAE? I've heard it can cause little/no milk production.


With CAE you would not have a flaccid udder. It develops normally and when you milk (or TRY to milk) it is rock hard. You cannot get ANYTHING out. Ok, maybe a drop or two, but that is it. A CAE udder upon freshening is not flaccid.


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## Hearts In Dixie (Oct 29, 2007)

She is definitely CAE neg I saw the negative test results myself. She was tested about a week before I got her. She did have a tough delivery both kids were trying to come out head first at the same time. I am always out there when my does deliver to intervene because even after 20 years of raising animals I still get excited like a kid at Christmas. BUT I was sick on the couch yesterday and best I could tell she may have been stuck like that for an hour. The kids are slightly lethargic but eating well. I do keep frozen colostrum for emergencies. I did try to message and work the udder yesterday to stimulate it but there was nothing. I will see what the udder feels like this morning. I am hoping it was just the tough delivery. I have never had a doe do the things this one has. 

Thanks,
Marla


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## Hearts In Dixie (Oct 29, 2007)

Still no milk. She has a nice little udder. It is soft and pliable but nothing in it. I messaged and tried to milk it hoping to stimulate something but literally got four drops. 

Marla


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Any signs of mastitis, Marla? Hot udder? Did you check her temp?


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

You said you recently bought this doe. Do you know anything about her former lactations? Also, how did you feed her in the last stage of pregnancy? Did she already get some of the dairy ration? Is she in good condition/too fat/too skinny, these can all be factors in milk production. I have had does that just take a week or so after a kidding to get going. No milk at all is very worrysome, though. 

How are the kids doing, by the way? (sorry for all the questions)

Marion


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## Hearts In Dixie (Oct 29, 2007)

This doe is a yearling. I have never had this problem before but she is not from my stock. She is perfect except that she has no milk, she isn't overweight, she isn't underweight, she is good size. The farm I bought her from wasn't sure of due dates only when the buck was put into the pens. She felt sure most of them didn't take immediately due to the hotter than normal temperatures we were having. I started feeding them up as soon as they got to my farm. Again this morning I worked the udder and today I didn't even get a drop out. Kids are doing great. Thankfully one of the other does I purchased also kidded the day before so I have milk. 

Thanks,
Marla


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

I am so sorry, Maria, that all our brainstorming is not resulting in the magic solution. I sure hope the kids will keep on doing fine and that the doe decides one of these days to figure out what that udder is for! Glad you have another doe providing milk for you and kids.

Marion


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