# Nutritional Value of Black Oil Sunflower Seeds



## Sondra

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrientprofile&dbid=127

Very interesting!! think I will go back to feeding them to the goats

Barley
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=127#nutritionalprofile

Oats
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=54#nutritionalprofile


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## Guest

Wow! I would have thought that barley was more similar to oats. It sure looks like a great source of copper. I'm glad I've kept it in my mix.

Christy


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## LynninTX

barley is just too iffy for me... can't store it as it turns fast and feed store runs out


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## SherrieC

I don't think we ever have barley available to us.


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## Guest

I'm going to see how much BOSS is next time I go to the feedstore. The rice bran I switched to is a lot cheaper but it is messy. Alfalfa pellets came down I paid $7.45/50# the other day. I was talking to my BIL that works in the feedstore and he said corn has come down too. When corn comes down usually everything else follows so maybe BOSS will also.


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## Sondra

BOY I hope your right on the costs going down everything her jumped a dollar higher here this last week.


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## Wendy Tinney

Thank you so much for the info. It is so nice to see what else BOSS contains besides good fat, and I found the barley nutrition very interesting also. I will be checking into that farther!!

Wendy


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## Faithful Crown Nubians

Thanks for posting the information!


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## Bella Star

No Barley here to be found and the Sunflower seeds are out of season around here, so I use about 1 sm.Tablespoon of sunflower oil drizzled over the feed on the stand while milking .


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## Guest

Thanks for the great info, my grain has barley and Boss and this is great.
Barbara


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## Secondairy

We have recently switched from a bagged commercially available feed to a custom mix that contains both BOSS and Barley. I knew the breeder that I got our goats from was on to something when we purchased a buckling from her last year. We went back there this summer and got another buckling, and two dry yearlings, and the size differences were AMAZING! our buckling is probably in the 80-90lb range, and his litter mate sister is 125lbs easy! The other dey yearling is a few months younger, and is also right in that weight range. Our management was the same minus feed. I was going through alot more feed than she was per head, but was really not that happy with the results. I tried everything from pellets, to sweet, to a mix of both. One thing I know for sure is our herd HATES pellets with a passion. They would leave them in the feeder to spoil in the sun. At one point, we were feeding 4lbs per animal per day, and we were still not pleased with their development. We are now feeding 1lb per head, and are already seeing results in the form of lean muscle on their frames.

Her mix for 100lbs of feed is roughly as follows:
45lbs corn, 21lbs roasted soybeans, 13.75lbs oats, 10lbs barley, 2.5lbs BOSS, 2 to1 dairy mineral, salt, yeast, bicarb, garlic, vit ADE, selenium, Zinpro (mineral for feet), wet molasses.

I have the actual amounts of each, but have not gotten permission form her to publicly post them, but I can see what she says. They grow all of their own feed, and also mix it them selves on an as needed basis. I really wish I had the land to do it like that too!

When I had a mill make this feed, they were very surprised at the ingredients, and more so that this feed is whole grain. She said there is an effectiveness in the enzymes of the animals saliva that helps process these grains better when whole rather than cracked, and when they first started with the goats, her husband (a born and bred dairy cattle farmer) was thinking 'dairy animal' and coarse cracked them. That first year she had low milk production, loose berries and skinny goats. Someone suggested to her to feed the grain whole, and by the end of the second year, she had triple production, solid berries and well fleshed animals.

This might not work for everyone, but it seemed to work for her. As we got several animals from her farm, we decided to continue the feed practices as we live in the same state, although we are at a slightly higher altitude. I really liked what I saw, and don't want to set them back, as this year's purchases will be producing springs kids.

Anyway, off my soapbox! I replied to this thread as we are feeding a decent amount of barley and BOSS, and recently I learned alot about grain nutrition from spending so much time with the owner of the mill and discussing the feed with him and his nutritionalist. I can definitely see the effects of this in our herd, and they are very positive!

Kelly


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## NubianSoaps.com

Did you, do you now feed similar hay also? vicki


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## Secondairy

She fed mixed hay - grass/timothy/alfalfa (also home grown), and hers are on pasture. I used separate bales of timothy, alfalfa, and grass as I cant get consistent quality mixed bales. I have hay bags instead of racks (the horse kinds with the head hole), and put each in each a different bag and the goats can eat whatever one they prefer. I noticed that ours tend to eat more of the timothy than anything, but will eat more alfalfa in winter when given the choice. Ours are also on more browse than pasture, but they have a small area for straight grazing. They really don't utilize that area much though. Eating the 'woods' is their idea of heaven it would appear 

We only have 8 goats, and we are more hobby than anything, so this is working right now financially. I buy my hay from private farmers when it is 'in season', and can get decent second and third cut alfalfa right now for $3.50. I am picking up 50 bales this week, and probably another 30 next. I have 30 bales of timothy left 3rd cut...and get the orchard grass delivered when the Boer guy up the road has surplus. The closest feed store rapes us at $9.00 a bale for yellow, stemmy bales of alfalfa that is poor colored and light as a feather when we run short. I also buy hay 'for horses', as when we were buying 'for goats' the hay quality was obviously poorer. Their timothy is not much better at $7 a bale, and they never have grass. There are 4 feed stores in our area, and all vary on hay price and quality. The best quality one has the highest price, add another $1 to each before mentioned. It is ridiculous! If my trailer was larger, I would go to auction and buy hay there, but I can only get 35 when my mini van is hauling, and most are 50-60 bale stacks. Plus I am a sissy, and the idea of hauling more than that, even strapped down 40 miles down I80 from NJ to PA scares me :crazy

So to answer your question Vicki- sort of. The components are the same, but the goats have a choice of hays to eat. Plus ours have 98% browse over pasture.

Kelly


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## Guest

45lbs corn, 21lbs roasted soybeans, 13.75lbs oats, 10lbs barley, 2.5lbs BOSS, 2 to1 dairy mineral, salt, yeast, bicarb, garlic, vit ADE, selenium, Zinpro (mineral for feet), wet molasses.


Is that really a good mix? Pretty much everything I read says corn is bad, so I find a feed mix with almost half corn to be bad. Perhaps someone will school me, but to this novice I don't see this as a good feed.


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## NubianSoaps.com

There are few secret bullets to feeding, why I asked about the hay. Cruical is alfalfa. Then grain for protien if it's not in the alfalfa (raw soybeans which we have to go the coop for) energy and carbs (barley and oats) and fat (corn and boss)

Boss is just to expensive to use in anything other than kid growing, and corn is mostly untested out here, especially whole corn you never want to feed 'deer' corn out here to your goats. Barley is too expensive to use.

So with an eye on alfalfa, then improving the carbs, energy, and fat with oats, a little corn if it's in a horse feed since you know it's tested then, for fat, and a protein, soybeanmeal (calf manna knock offs are all soybean meal based). There are tons of ways to skin a cat.

Wendlands has a dry mix in from 12 to 16 percent with it being menued...oats, some barley some corn and their supplement (the calf manna knock off that I use). that and you being able to get the Coops alfalfa pellets right there in Splendora is easy...are there Wendlands dealers around you? Vicki


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## thymeless

_Boss is just to expensive to use in anything other than kid growing, and corn is mostly untested out here, especially whole corn you never want to feed 'deer' corn out here to your goats. Barley is too expensive to use_

Vicki, just curious, why you would not use "deer corn"?


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## NubianSoaps.com

It's untested for aflitoxins (no matter how I spell this it isn't right  and it's also the poorest of qualites. I also don't feed whole corn because it grinds down the girls molars, most folks don't think about this but if you do stay in goats and feed whole corn your girls will be gummers as old ladies, just when they need their molars to keep in good shape.

So that's why I don't feed corn, use mineral blocks that they scrape their teeth on etc.. Vicki


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## Ashley

Interesting, didn't know that about the corn. I guess if a person had to feed it they could soak/sprout it?


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## NubianSoaps.com

Goats are only allowed 100 PPB's of aflatoxins in the corn, it's a mycotoxin. Deer can have 800PPB's...and honestly that is because it's a minor species and feed that doesn't hit muster can be dumped as deer corn.

Texas A&M has some studies on this, it's some scarry stuff, animals who are poisioned with this never recover back to 100%. Vicki


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## mill-valley

The corn quality depends on the area. Our corn is good up here, I've fed mixes with it for years. Sometimes whole, sometimes cracked. The mix I have now is 30% whole corn, they do great on it. But as Vicki said, grain should be a fairly small portion of the goat's total ration anyway.


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## SherrieC

yes we have good corn in our area. but still makes me leary. we could feed them rye that would be fun, having goats loosing their minds going nutso, hepped up on the moldy rye.


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## ali923

I am using a lactation pellet mixed with a sweet feed horse feed, they are on plenty of pasture and get hay every now and then, unlimited minerals. I am pleased with their milk production and flesh covering, but I wondered if it would be even better to add a handful of barley and boss to their feed on the stand.


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## NubianSoaps.com

Allison, where are your dairy goats readibly absorbable calcium coming from daily? ie...where is their alfalfa.

Most lactation pellets are nothing but by product feed tags with calcium carbonate in them...which is in your loose mineral already.

Sweet feeds unless from top brands are just ground grains with molassas on it to keep down the dust.

No way is your mixutre better, or cheaper than feeding real grain. Either with a dry mix for horses, or feeding oats, barley, corn, boss in any mixture you want.

Key is alfalfa. I know you have commented before on my stock at shows, the base of their diet is 3 pounds of alfalfa a day, the only grain they get is on the milkstand and it's some form of oats...a dry mix, I don't feed wet molassas because it is soo high in iron, which binds with the copper problems we have here...and with high iron in my water, I don't want to add more iron in my minerals (I feed a grey mineral) nor do I want iron in the grain from the molassas. Molassas also makes an acid rumen.

If you are feeding the lactation pellet from the Coop in Bryan, it has backery products in it, which is lard...when you feed it and only grass type hays or sudans, is when you sit at club and here those talking about how they have lost to hypocalcemia this doe and that each kidding season. The copper, selenium, iron and calcium connection just seems to be lost on most. Vicki


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## ali923

Vicki, 
I do give alfalfa pellets, they get about 3/4 lb. ea. per day. And yes the feed is from the coop in bryan. We can't afford to feed free choice alfalfa pellets, so what do you suggest the minimum should be for them. Also, you are saying it would be cheaper to do a a mix of oats, barley, corn, boss or a dry mix for horses, like at tractor supply? I just want them to be their best, but it won't do me any good if I go broke doing it. So...what would be a good mix? My milkers eat on the stand and then they get a little (pellet) out in the barn with the others who are not milking because they are all together. ******************** I just needs some suggestions that I won't have to give up my left arm to afford. 
thanks, 
allison

_*edited byt BlissBerry - foul language_


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## Sondra

Allison may I ask what you are paying for your lactation pellets and sweet feed?
for instance I pay 8.60 for 50lb alfalfa pellets and the should be getting 3lbs per goat per day. especially if milking. and at TSC the bluebonnet dry horse feed is I think 10.50 per 50 lbs. I am paying $10.35 for 50 lbs of whole race horse oats.


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## NubianSoaps.com

I pay $9 per 50 for alfalfa pellets and like Sondra I feed 3 pounds a day, one doe who I don't feed much grain to gets 5 (she milks really well, 12 pounds but simply gets too fat if she gets more than about 1/2 a pound of oats each feeding, so she gets alfalfa pellets with her oats to keep her happy on the stand). On the stand I feed oats, to up the protein I am feeding a soybeanmeal based knockoff of calf manna from Wendlands. Right now a horse farm who is feeding out brood mares is using a 14% oat, corn, barley with the supplement pellet I use already mixed to gether for less than I can mix oats and it, so I am using it. Wendlands also is making a dry mix for horses...oats, corn, barley, supplement and really good mineral mix less than I can get whole oats, so I simply will switch to it when they stop feeding these mares and I can't get this blend. 

Biggy is to read the tags, if they say processed grain by products, plant protein by products..you have no idea what is in them from feeding to feeding, I want my tag to say Rolled Oats, Crimped Barley, Whole oats, flaked corn etc....

I do keep grass hay out when it's rainy and most of the winter, but I maybe feed 50 bales, I dont' rely on the hay for anything other than filler, they get their protein, roughage and calcium from the alfalfa pellets. Vicki


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## Wendy Tinney

Vicki/Sondra, where are you getting your alfalfa pellets from or who makes them? I'm paying $11.50 or more. I think I read you feed Evans. I'm feeding Evans but not paying $9.

Wendy


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## Sondra

I am feeding either red river valley or bryant and they are $8.60 pr 50lb 14 % I think


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## ali923

Sondra, I am paying 8 something/bag for the alfalfa pellets and the lac. pellets and 9 something a bag for the sweet feed. Oh, and I also put beet pulp on top of the milkers feed on the stand. Do ya'll feed only alfalfa pellets to dry does and babies? And what about bucks? A while back I really tried to give the girls the alfalfa pellets they needed, I talked to others and read about it. I think I even got up to about 2-2.5 lbs/doe/day. They let some of it go to waste, they didn't eat it like crazy. I do agree, they need the alfalfa, but what do i do if they just don't eat it. I don't want to do alfalfa hay, there is so much waste involved there.


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## Wendy Tinney

Thanks Sondra, will ask my feed dealer to look into those. I found so many alfalfa pellets have additives. Once I found some that weren't powdery and w/out additives, I stuck with them.

Wendy


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## NubianSoaps.com

I can get Boyce even cheaper but they have consistancy problems with, not dust, but they simply aren't stuck together very well. I am feeding Evan's right now, and he also gets Aarow now and then. I get a break on mine.

Wendy everyone on my place gets alfalfa pellets 24/7/365....alfalfa pellets, minerals, grass hay and browse and water or the only constance.....grain here is the thing moved around depending upon if you are a growing kid, a buck heavily used in rut and needs some groceries, and the last 50 days of pregnancy and lactation. I will have the first dry yearling here in years this year and she will be getting alfalfa pellets only when her herdmates are milking come this next April...I can't grain out dry does unless heavy bred or they would be pork fat. 

Look at the prices of grain...oats, corn barley when you are at the mill, then look at the price of the lactation pellet...shows you that there isn't any real grain, only byproducts in that lactation pellet. Vicki


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## Sondra

bet the reason your does don't clean up the alfalfa pellets is that all that "SWEET" feed is just too filling with not alot of nutrition and how do you keep it from getting moldy down here?


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## dq

hi all! this is my first post here ! I have found this interesting concerning the sunflower seeds. It is of course pertaining to cows but.......

http://jds.fass.org/cgi/content/abs...INDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT

abstract excerpt "There was an interaction between treatment and time for levels of 13,14-dihydro-15-keto-PGF2{alpha} in plasma; they were greater 30 and 45 min after the oxytocin challenge for cows that were fed sunflower seed compared with those fed either Megalac, flaxseed, or control."

I am not familiar with an "oxytocin challenge" though. can anyone enlighten me as to what exactly that entails and is looking for? I know that oxytocin plays a major role in lactation.


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## Wendy Tinney

I do use a oat/boss/knock off calf manna and some get beet pulp. Free choice alfalfa and Techmaster Complete. Does of course. 3 questions here. The doeling born June before last and bred now (I hope), do I keep feeding her a twice a day ration of the above until she is 3 months pregnant and then take it way back?

Next I feed my buck 1/2 West Kid and Goat and 1/2 LaCuesta. The lacuesta has AC in it and alfalfa. Just started with the mineral with them. Didn't know they could have it. Hay. Is this good? Do they get more alfalfa? I thought that caused UC. I just started with bucks this past year and am so lost in what is best for them.

Ok, forgot my last ? Will remember as I get into bed! LOL

Thanks, Sondra and Vicki for getting back with the brands you use.

Wendy


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## NubianSoaps.com

The doeling born June before last and bred now (I hope), do I keep feeding her a twice a day ration of the above until she is 3 months pregnant and then take it way back?
........................

Yes because of the poor quality of our hay I do grain my to be first fresheners until 100 days pregnant and then back off to a milkstand grain amount...about 1 pound am and pm until they freshen......BUT yours is nearly 2, mine kid at 13 months...huge difference, no way could I grain my kids that long...I would take away her grain and just give her alfalfa pellets until she is 100 days pregnant, and I would blood test her to make sure she is bred so you don't miss her again.

Next I feed my buck 1/2 West Kid and Goat and 1/2 LaCuesta. The lacuesta has AC in it and alfalfa.
...............

Both these feeds would have to contain AC or cocci meds for you not to be diluting it. You can't feed bucks 1/2 of something on a label they have to eat it only to keep the blood level up of the drug. Like if you fed a rumensin pellet for cocci and then put this and that and the other thing on top of the pellet, it would dilute soo much how much of the druged feed they get you would have break throughs of cocci. If you are going to mix these feeds than simply add your own AC at a teaspoon per guy per day, it won't hurt the does either.

Just started with the mineral with them. Didn't know they could have it. Hay. Is this good? Do they get more alfalfa? I thought that caused UC.
.................

Really over the top excess of protein can cause urinary calculi but the culprit is nearly always grain. Too much phosphrous, which is in all grass hays and all grains. So alfalfa actually helps. Vicki


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## Wendy Tinney

Thanks Vicki! I must have not said correctly how old my doeling is. She just turned 1 in June. Born way too late to kid last yr and bred her the first heat this yr. But backing her off is what I thought.

I'm willing to change the bucks way of feeding, but can't seem to get a grasp on what to do. I'll go read tim's post in 101 again and then ask the ?'s I had the last time I read it. Will start gradually adding alfalfa to their feed. How much per day?

Wendy


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## Tracy in Idaho

My butterfat levels have sure dropped since I quit feeding BOSS -- but that's okay -- at $32 a bag -- forget it!!!!

I don't know how you guys manage to do alfalfa pellets -- when ours got to $320 a ton I quit! Of course, I get my alfalfa hay for "free" so it didn't matter in the end.

I tell you, if I had to pay the $235 a ton that hay is going for -- I would be back down to about 3 goats!

Tracy


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## ali923

Just wanted you guys to know that I went to get feed today, and I have officially begun the converting process and on the road to a better way to feed. I read the calciumhosphorus article by sue reith and looked at all the other mixes that others do as well, and I just want you guys to rest assured  that my girls will be eating better. It will be a gradual conversion. Thanks for all the info, can't wait for my girls to be even healthier, especially with breeding/kiddings season here and around the corner.


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## mill-valley

I think alfalfa pellets are more expensive than good hay here too...but I really like the ease and lack of waste. They are $460/ton here, with a break. But we don't get "free" hay . Which is why I've only got 4 does in milk right now....but they look and milk better than they used to on grass hay and grain .


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