# Baby kids breathing heavy and lazy



## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

So I had another goat kid a couple about a week ago. She is not nearly as good of a momma as the other that had three super healthy babies.

She was not feeding them as well as she should and one of her teats is getting sort of red and puffy (mastitis I guess). Couple days ago I tried getting her in the milking stand and milked out a cup form the sore looking teat and then tried to bottle feed the skinny little buck but he wasn't very interested in it.

Finally yesterday I broke down and gave her a shot of penicillin for the infection in her left teat. Then today her two babies are sleeping a lot and breathing a bit heavy so I am worried about the medicine having been passed to them in the milk (what little they can get from her because she keeps walking away whenever they try to get on that left teat that is sore) causing my problem and worries.

Any feedback suggestions ideas on what I should do next is more than welcome and appreciated.

(update) they are awake again and more active now less heavy breathing may just have been more noticeable because they were laying on their sides cuddled up for a midday nap together. They seem much less in danger now. I'm still trying to soften up that red puffy teat on their momma. She really doesn't like me touching it either, but being less alpha than the other goat she is also slightly more compliant with "farmer insistence". 

Goats=so much work


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## jdavenport (Jul 19, 2012)

Make sure you keep an eye on them, maybe even take their temperature. They could have goop in their lungs, which would make them lethargic. Did you give them a little BO-SE when they were born? That can also perk them up a little. Make sure they are getting plenty of milk, those little tummies need to be full. FYI she'll need penicillin for 7-10 days if you really believe she has an infection, don't just give it for a day or 2, then stop when she looks better. If you do, you are breeding penicillin resistant bacteria. Very Bad. 
Keep milking out mom at least 2 times a day on that sore teat, or she may lose capacity and the infection might get worse and dry up that side entirely. Penicillin would not make the babies tired, not enough food and lack of selenium and fluid in the lungs would make them lethargic. Keep on keeping on and you'll see light at the end of the tunnel!


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

They are doing better and yesterday another goat Belle kidded a pair out - my goodness - lesson learned about not having the buck in there during late summer.

So she dropped the little girl kid first when nobody was watching and the poor thing nearly froze to death - I brought it inside and the body temp was like 89 took a good hour or 90 mins to get the body temp up the little hooves were like ice cubes and I had to hold them in my hands and it actually hurt my hands. So shocked and amazed she is still with us today and doing well named her Elsa (yeah the Frozen girl) and her little brother is Olaf. 

OK so I have a new issue - since the ice-pop kid was in the house for like two hours right after delivery the mother seems to keep refusing to let her nurse I've held her horns in place to allow Elsa to latch on and get a good drink like four times now in the last 24 hours so she is good for now. 

OK so the Question in the back of my mind is if her being left outside in the cold might not have been an accident because she looks more like the other goats kids where the little boy has the white splashes on it's sides so maybe she can obviously tell it is HER baby and she dotes on Olaf (constant tongue baths and full milk access) and Belle is believing the other little Elsa isn't hers? I've even seen her throw the little girl with her horns away from her a pretty clear rejection. I don't want to be out there three times a day manually rooting the little doe to her momma. What do ya think?

Back to the other goat she is just a poor momma. I've seen her "less loved" little boy baby getting some milk from the first supergood momma with her own trio, so that amazingly good momma goat isn't getting milked because I know she isn't likely to lose capacity anytime soon with four babies constantly feeding from her - oh yeah and her teat is back to normal almost the same as the other teat now - the shot of antibiotic worked I guess and the gentle massaging


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## jdavenport (Jul 19, 2012)

It's more about smell. If she didn't lick her off, then she probably will reject her for a long time. If there is still goo hanging off mom, take some and smear it on the baby, especially the head and tail, hopefully mom will realize that she needs to take care of this one too. Most FF have a hard time with more than 1 baby if they weren't separated from the herd for a few days after birth in their own stall, with just their babies.


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

jdavenport said:


> It's more about smell...If there is still goo hanging off mom, take some and smear it on the baby...


There is still a frozen afterbirth sack sitting out there frozen on the ground - I'll watch for followup fresh "trailings" sometimes a little comes out when she nurses the little boy but failing that I can probably rub a little of that afterbirth hadn't gotten around to burying it yet because of the weather so good thing about freezing rain is...

Thank you for the advice!


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

So finally there are no more pregnant goats out there. Apparently every last doe was pregnant the last three does dropped one pair and two single kids. Seems the fewer they have inside the longer they keep them in them.

Herd went from eight goats to 19 in two weeks. What a wild ride that was and still is. I found they like tiny cardboard boxes like large shoeboxes or boot-boxes in the delivery room for the babies to cuddle in at night. The single kids seem to struggle a little more because the mothers don't like them to mingle too much with other does kids. 

One good mother (the last one) I didn't even know the delivery had happened. She took care of everything with no assistance! She was just sitting in an odd place blocking an interior barn passage door and when I asked her to move she did and revealed a kid against the wall behind the door she was blocking she was keeping the newborn kid warm using her body to cuddle it herself. Such a good momma. Some of them are amazing while others are sort of meh so so. None of them appear starved but some babies are resorting to ninja nursing at the risk of angry surrogates giving them a horn when they realize someone who wasn't theirs ninjad some milk.

I tried cows milk in a bottle offering to all to see if any were hungry and they pretty much all shook their heads at it. So I don't think any babies are starving.


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

On the subject of antibiotic resistant infections - I tend to use the 3-4 day shots so I don't have that issue as much and only have to remember to give one follow up shot

http://www.jefferspet.com/products/la-200-liquamycin


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

so several weeks into the ordeal that was "out of season mass kidding", I'm blessed to still have all eleven kids still with us. The one which has been rejected by it's mother still does quite a bit of ninja nursing I see she figured out that if a mother is distracted and she sneaks in between the middle of the hind legs she can nab a half feeding before the mother gets wise. The end result sometimes is a very rude toss sometimes up into the air with the horns but she is hanging in there. 

Elsa is such a strong determined little girl I really wish I had a better strategy for handling this but using milked goat milk in the bottle has very little success. It's like they don't like the smell of the rubber nipple?

I often usually once a day hold one or two of the goats by their horns base and allow the little orphan ninja kid to get in there and do a good lengthy feeding with some wriggling and squirming by the mother once she realizes she has a ninja latched on.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

As long as Elsa is getting enough milk the times that you are holding the does for her, I'd say she's probably okay, but I'd try and do it at least twice a day. You have to teach baby goats to take a bottle...they won't just latch onto it if you just point it at their face, especially if they have been nursing on does. Even newborns that have never seen a mother goat's teat and are bottle fed from birth will need some kind of coaxing. To get her to take a bottle, you'd probably have to put the nipple in her mouth and hold it there until she starts to get the idea better. It probably won't work if she is expecting to be able to nurse on does, though, so you'd probably need to house her in a separate area. I think for her, I would probably just keep holding does that have extra milk for her to nurse, and I would do it 2-3 times a day and monitor her growth. Feeding her separate with a little grain to help develop her rumen and give her some extra calories for growth probably wouldn't be a bad idea, either.


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

fmg said:


> As long as Elsa is getting enough milk the times that you are holding the does for her, I'd say she's probably okay, but I'd try and do it at least twice a day.


I found they will take the bottle if you hold them still in your arm so they can get the idea more quickly.

I've now got kids trying to eat grains from the adult feeding area - struggle now is to help them figure out how to get some grown up food without getting a tough lesson in pecking order from the older goats. I may have to rethink my whole feeding system. Pecking order system worked fine with a dozen buckets and 8 goats but with 19 goats I can't throw a big scoop in 19 buckets and they are just sampling at this point. "Goatwalking" helps because the babies (many) come along and eat the grass in the few green areas.


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## jdavenport (Jul 19, 2012)

It's time to add a little area where they can squeeze thru the fence to get to their own food. If you look up creep fence, you'll see lots of ideas.


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

So thanks to the many great experts and advice I received here all 11 of our new baby goats are still hopping, skipping and jumping all over the place. My worst struggle is to ensure the runts and outcasts still get enough food but with only a couple of those and many now shifting over to partially solid feed and graze, this challenge is growing less difficult to keep an eye on. The last week I spotted a couple of skinny runts looking hungry and trying to nab milk from random goats so I do the thing where I catch a milker by one horn and one leg and hold them so the baby (who now know to watch for the signature move) can jump on and get a few minutes of guzzle going. They also watch for when I am rotating mommas through the milking stand and and try to "help me" milk them.

I don't recall reading this but seems I should be separating the babies at night to ensure better milkings in the morning - no wonder I was getting such small cups of milk from milking sessions!


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