# C&D ANTITOXIN dose clarification



## baileybunch

I need clarification on the C&D ANTItoxin dosage. Amount (for both kid and adult), duration, etc. I have read conflicting information and the dosages aren't given in the Sue Rieth articles. Thank you.


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## Kaye White

I've had great success with the lable doses. I use the 10ml for kids 12weeks and under. I also give IV if the lable states it can be used that way (READ YOUR LABLE). I've used several different brands of Antitoxin. Colorado Serum is labled for IV or SQ use.
Kaye


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## Sondra

doses are listed under Saanedoah vaccination articles in Goat 101


> CLOSTRIDIUM PERFRINGENS C&D BACTERIN-TOXOID
> X
> Also BAR-VAC CD/T, VISION CD/T with Spur and FERMACON CD/T combos include tetanus toxoid.
> Dose: use sheep dose from lable, usually 2ml SC (SQ) in the web of the elbow: the axilla, behind the armpit.
> Vaccination schedules to raise antibody concentration of Clostridium perfringens in ewes and lambs.
> If dams have not had prenatally, or status of the dam is not known, kids should be inoculated at birth and then once a month for three months.
> 
> This is the immunization that prevents ENTEROTOXEMIA , the quick, no warning killer of young animals previously mentioned.
> Withdrawal - 21 days
> Goats do not respond well to the C&D vaccines, for that reason it is recommend they be vaccinated at least twice yearly.
> Note: about 10-15% of immunized animals do NOT build an active immunity to this disease, and MAY STILL GET IT.
> Some areas of the country need immunization against additional clostridials.


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## baileybunch

Thanks. I try to refer to the Saanendoah articles but at times I have found that the information given is different from what others on this list say. For example, Lysigin. I believe that the label dosages are what Saanendoah gives. Thanks again.


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## Kaye White

Sondra...you gave the Toxoid dose, not the Antitoxin. Jet lag??? :lol
Kaye


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## baileybunch

C&D ANTITOXIN-From Dairy Goat 101

"I personally use 9 cc each side giving alternate sides at 3 cc ea time and then 6 or 9 cc orally this is a total of *18 cc injected SQ and 6 or 9 cc orally * 
This also may need to be done *every 4 hrs*. REMEMBER the antitoxin will not hurt the goat and may just save it's life better to error on too much in this one instance."

"DOSAGE AND ADMINISTRATION: 
For prevention lasting approximately 3 weeks, the following doses should be administered subcutaneously:

Suckling Lambs, *Goats* and Pigs 
*5 ml *

Suckling Calves, Feeder Lambs & Pigs 
10 ml

Feeder Calves and Cattle 
25 ml

*For treatment, double the preventative dose. *

A more rapid effect can be achieved by intravenous administration, with *repeat dosages as often as 12 hour intervals*."

Here's where I need help. Kaye, you say for kids 12 weeks and under give 10ML. Got it. That's double the dose. But what about adult goats? Is the 12 hour interval correct? I am asking what the dosages and duration would be for a goat suffering from enterotoxemia and in crisis.


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## baileybunch

And yes, I too saw that what Sondra quoted was for toxoid and not antitoxin. That's okay.


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## old dominion

Kaye is right on. 10 cc min for kids less than 12 weeks old. I prefer to dose on the high side so I don't have to redose. Don't forget Banamine, Pepto, and Antibiotics - In that order, when needed.


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## baileybunch

Yes. 10 cc for kids 12 weeks and under. So, for adults, I'd use the 18cc plus the 6-9 orally? Also, when do you decide whether or not to re-dose? And yes, I have the rest of the treatment listed...Banamine, oil, baking soda, pepto, antibiotics but only after the antitoxin. Trying to get my notes in order!


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## Kaye White

I use 40cc for an adult and I do it a little differently. 20cc SQ or IV (SLOWLY) and 20cc SQ...you are not in as much danger with an adult as you are with a kid...I don't know if I catch it faster in an adult or why but a kid can die FAST. The few doses I've used (and recommended) in adults was along with bloat treatments. I think maybe it's because I catch the bloat faster in an adult, rather than the sloshy belly in a kid.
Kaye


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## goatkid

I guess there must be different opinions on how much to give. When I attended Convention a few years ago, a vet who is also a goat breeder said to give 10cc SQ and 10cc orally.


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## baileybunch

Again, sorry, but when would you repeat the dose? Under what circumstances? I've never had a case of entero. I want to make sure I know how to use the antitoxin properly.


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## Sondra

Well DUH yep brain dead!!
This is what I do on a needed basis.
9 cc each side alternating sides with 3 cc at a time and then 9 cc orally along with 3 cc of pen g orally. and given every 2 hrs until goat is ok. usually also give malox/ malanta to coat the stomach.


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## baileybunch

Thank you. I wanted to make sure I KNEW what to do before I ever have a problem, lest I am unable to make immediate contact! Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Repeat dosage until improvement.


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## Kaye White

> Repeat dosage until improvement.


Yep. It may take just one dose and it may take several doses over an 8hr. period. I also usually give it every 2hrs. until I see improvement. Within the 2 hr. period you should see the bloat disappearing and animal that isn't eating, go back to nibbling at hay. It is also very important to give the banamine for the pain in the stomach and coat the intestines with something to help prevent damage to the intestinal wall.
Kaye


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## baileybunch

Okay, great! A few more questions. Have you ever heard that giving C&D Antitoxin to a bred doe can cause problems? Also, and I have been reading, but just need some clarification, bloat, acidosis, enterotoxemia...Is entero the final stage of a severe case of over-eating? I know a goat can just simply have bloat. And I really don't know much about acidosis or enterotoxemia. I'm just trying to figure it all out. If a goat did in fact progress from bloat to enterotoxemia, would death be the final outcome if the antitoxin were not administered? How are all these relatated or are they? When would the antitoxin become neccessary?


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## Sondra

I have found that you will see bloat first and if it goes to entro you really are a little late. So if I see severe bloat I give the antitoxin along with thera bloat and or malanta/malox and baking soda. but don't know if this is correct. Just would rather be safe than sorry. Have lost two goats my own fault from changing up feed and not catching it quick enough.


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## baileybunch

We've not had a case of what I would call "serious" bloat. When we got our first milking doe she was not used to lush grass and we had that. We kept her off of it and slowly introduce her to it. One morning she had the bloated left side, up level with her back. We gave her a bloat treatment and walked her around until she pooped. Poor thing, we gave her diarrhea with the bloat treatment! Other than that we've only had mild cases of bloat, which sometimes I think was merely a full rumin and a panicing child!  

How would you describe "serious" bloat?

How would you describe "accidosis"?

What would we see in a case of enterotoxemia? 

What would you call it when a goat "vomits" up brown cud or frothy mucus along with a bloated side? Or slinging very wet cud and musus while coughing?

These are just circumstances I've heard of but never witnessed except in our ancient Mama Ewe.


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## Patty13637

Is there a milk withdrawl time for the anti tox ?


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## NubianSoaps.com

How would you describe "serious" bloat? Huge bloated side, if you slapped it with your hand it would ping like a drum, the animal is down and in pain but not the screaming in pain of entero. 

How would you describe "accidosis"? Usually foaming at the mouth from acid build up, nearly always brought on by grain.

What would we see in a case of enterotoxemia? Death. Usually your best kid, well grown, a piggy eater, presents with a sloshy belly and screaming in pain kicking her belly, by the time you do anything she is dead, or dies on the way to the vet.

What would you call it when a goat "vomits" up brown cud or frothy mucus along with a bloated side? Or slinging very wet cud and musus while coughing? Posioning. Slinging cut is always a doe getting something out of her cud and rumen that wasn't supposed to go in there. From green from azalea poisoning to cud the color of manure from rat poision. Vicki


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## Sondra

with entro u also see either extreme stretching with each step and the screeming or down and stretching/screeming /stretching. And don't rely on a vet having CD/ANTITOXIN on hand. This is something everyone needs to keep on hand whether you ever have to use it or not.


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## baileybunch

Thanks for all of the information! One last unanswered question:
Have you ever heard that giving C&D Antitoxin to a bred doe can cause problems? As in harmful to the kids or causing defects or kidding problems? Any effects at all?


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