# If your not feeding grain to wethers....then.....



## jaytori220 (Jul 23, 2008)

What are you doing to make sure they are getting the nutrition they need? Ive read grass hay or grass alf mix and grain bad...alf hay and grain good. Im feeding a timothy alfalfa hay mix...more timothy then alfalfa free choice goat mineral with AC and 1/4 cup goat feed. Im wanting to keep them on either a grass or T&A mix but want to make sure they get the nutrition they need.


----------



## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Jay if I remember right your wethers are just 5 mo's old if that is right then they probably need to have a medicated meat goat pellet that has AC in it until they are 8 mo to 1 year old. this is what most people do. 
I however have had good luck just using alfalfa pellets and burmuda grass hay especially with wethers or bucks. but of course I usually am still feeding them milk


----------



## jaytori220 (Jul 23, 2008)

Mine are weaned....how much alfalfa pellets are you feeding? Would it also work if I fed a T&A hay with or without grain? Just a grass hay alone with no grain seems like there would not be enough nutrition for them. Alfalfa here is very expensive....$20 a bale...but they are fairly large. Bermuda is only $7.50 and canadian T&A 20% alf 80% tim $12 and I think the Western T&A 80% alf and 20% tim was close to $16. I may lean towards feeding alfalfa hay and grain...but wanted to feed very minimal grain...about 1/4-1/2 cup daily. Im wanting to keep costs low but give htem the nutrition they need without the risks of UC. Im not sure if the alfalfa hay and grain or the pellets and coastal bermuda would be the most cost affective and give htem what they need. So far 1 bale of T&A is lasting me just short of 1 month free choice. I havent made a dent in the feed at 1/4 cup a day for a month!


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Nutrition to do what? You can't compare raising wethers for pet to someone with a breeding buck, or wethers to be eaten or even wethers who pack.

Wethers for pets would get all their vitamins and minerals from a good mineral. Browse, then winters hay of course, and if you have severe weather than yes grain for energy and carbs for winter. Grain is for growing, and if you aren't eating these guys this fall, than they would grow just great on good hay, browse etc..

Anytime you use grain on them you risk UC. AC in the mineral has never been proven to give them enough AC with the amounts of minerals they eat (little) daily. If I was going to feed wethers grain I would feed them a meat goat pellet that contained AC and was also alfalfa meal based, that and good horse quality hay. I would not waste my money on alfalfa hay or alfalfa pellets. Meat goat pellets during the winter when cold, none as the pastures green up. Vicki


----------



## jaytori220 (Jul 23, 2008)

Nutrition to stay healthy. Im not eating them. They are just pets. Ive read where Cal-Phos ratio unbalenced is the culprit of UC and feeding alfalfa and grain is good and grass hay and grain is bad but I dont see much nutrition in just feeding bermuda as the only source of the diet. We can only get bermuda hay here as a grass hay and every year we have had a shortage of it and we couldnt get it anywhere for months. If we have no rain its nasty yellow and not that great. If we are lucky its nice and green and lately it has been. I do feed a goat mineral free choice with AC in it. Right now I have them on T&A hay free choice but its very stemmy and they are wasting most of it. I was thinking about resorting back to bermuda but since I read on another forum its bad to feed with grain......If they can get by nutritionally with just bermuda without a Cal-Phos imbalence preventing AC and no grain I would do in a heartbeat. I have no clue what the Cal-Phos ratio is. Also they are not pastured persay....I have them in a large fenced in area that doesnt have much for weeds but is very very grassy. So they really have no browse. Bremuda only...Is that what you recommend I do with them?


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

There are hundreds of Bermuda hays, costal bermuda could eaisly keep two wethers in good health with a good mineral and clean water. The calcium/phos ration is pretty meaingless with just hay...it's when you add the mega phos with grain that you will see problems.

I also wouldn't want to be switching their diet around so whatever hay you can buy and store until cut again next year is what I would feed...once again perhaps moving to a meat goat pellet with AC in it during the colder damp winters, especially because of our poor keeping quality of hay we both have because of this damp winter weather.

Feel them over their ribs, they should be skin with a little flesh and then ribs...too much flesh and you can back them down off the meat goat pellets, just skin over the ribs and you can up the pellets. But your goal for a long life of your guys will be to keep them lean, fat is your enemy. Vicki


----------



## jaytori220 (Jul 23, 2008)

Vicki McGaugh Tx Nubians said:


> There are hundreds of Bermuda hays, costal bermuda could eaisly keep two wethers in good health with a good mineral and clean water. The calcium/phos ration is pretty meaingless with just hay...it's when you add the mega phos with grain that you will see problems.
> 
> I also wouldn't want to be switching their diet around so whatever hay you can buy and store until cut again next year is what I would feed...once again perhaps moving to a meat goat pellet with AC in it during the colder damp winters, especially because of our poor keeping quality of hay we both have because of this damp winter weather.
> 
> Feel them over their ribs, they should be skin with a little flesh and then ribs...too much flesh and you can back them down off the meat goat pellets, just skin over the ribs and you can up the pellets. But your goal for a long life of your guys will be to keep them lean, fat is your enemy. Vicki


We get our hay from a local feed store right around the corner. We dont have any means of making, baleing, or even getting hay from a local farmer. I would have to drive hours for that! I only have room to store about 4-6 bales at a time. And its coastal bermuda hay....the only grass only hay we can get. Im in Florida and we dont really have a bad winter. We get into the 40's and very rarely into the 30's....its the wind chill thats cold. And very rarely do we get frost or ice. So hay all year should do with no grain. Oh and my two little guys have bellies on them! They are alittle more then lean. I was told a large rumen that is working causes them to have a large tummy. They get large eating hay then in the morning I see that they have lost most of the pudge. I would by far rather feed just coastal and mineral then anything else. If it will keep them and be cheaper...Im all for it.


----------



## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

yep that is what I would do also and start them on cocci prevention


----------



## jaytori220 (Jul 23, 2008)

Sondra said:


> yep that is what I would do also and start them on cocci prevention


If I dont feed a feed with cocci prevention what is a good one to add?


----------



## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

you need to use corid or sulfa drug like demethox 40 % or (sulmet/albon 12.5%) and the doses are in Goat 101 they are a drench used every 21 days..

The feed thru cocci prevention really doesn't work anyway


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Don't ever look at their bellies to see if they are in good flesh. Feel over their ribs. Vicki


----------



## jaytori220 (Jul 23, 2008)

Vicki McGaugh Tx Nubians said:


> Nutrition to do what? You can't compare raising wethers for pet to someone with a breeding buck, or wethers to be eaten or even wethers who pack.
> 
> Wethers for pets would get all their vitamins and minerals from a good mineral. Browse, then winters hay of course, and if you have severe weather than yes grain for energy and carbs for winter. Grain is for growing, and if you aren't eating these guys this fall, than they would grow just great on good hay, browse etc..
> 
> Anytime you use grain on them you risk UC. AC in the mineral has never been proven to give them enough AC with the amounts of minerals they eat (little) daily. If I was going to feed wethers grain I would feed them a meat goat pellet that contained AC and was also alfalfa meal based, that and good horse quality hay. I would not waste my money on alfalfa hay or alfalfa pellets. Meat goat pellets during the winter when cold, none as the pastures green up. Vicki


Vicki,
I went back and read your post and I forgot to mention that they are on a feed that is mostly pellets but has alittle oats and corn in it. Its very light on the molasses. Im not sure if its considered a grained feed but I call all feeds grain. It does have AC but not medicated by Manna Pro. The feed store around the corner does not carry a medicated feed and only manna pro but I know 2 that do here that carry purina. Im sure they carry the meat goat pellet thats medicated. My mineral that I get is a loose goat mineral that does not have any vitamins in it. The package shows only minerals on the back and AC. If Im gonna be feeding coastal to them...Ive been told its low in cal and very high in phos which from what I have read is the cause of UC. So just feeding the CB hay would make the balence out of whack.....? WOuldnt I have to feed some sort of feed, alfalfa pellets, something with calcium ect to balence out the ration and prevent UC? Oh....and I think the feed stores that carry Purina has a feed formulated for just wethers...or Ive been told that Purina does make it. If they have a meat goat pellet with AC, medicated, and alfalfa meal based thats probably the way to go. Im gonna check out the Purina site and see what I can find.


----------



## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

OK this is my personal opinion. I would be feeding alfalfa pellets and burmuda grass hay or just feed your timothy/alfalfa mix. and forget it.
I personally would not feed anything PURNIA but that is me.


----------



## jaytori220 (Jul 23, 2008)

Sondra said:


> OK this is my personal opinion. I would be feeding alfalfa pellets and burmuda grass hay or just feed your timothy/alfalfa mix. and forget it.
> I personally would not feed anything PURNIA but that is me.


Thats what I have been leaning towards....either alf pellets & coastal or just the hay. How much alf pellets per goat? I feed 1/4 cup feed daily. Purina is all we can get here medicated. Im not too keen on Purina either. I never fed it to my horses either cause I never like the ingrediants. Adding AC daily even if my mineral contains it?...and Sulmet every 21 days for life or as needed after a certain age?

Thanks...


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I don't know how to answer you. On browse and pasture and with grass hay our bucks do fine, they never get UC, ever, my boer buck back in the day never saw any calcium except in his mineral. It was always the phosphrous from grain that would put this diet over the top and cause UC.

Yes my bucks get alfalfa pellets everday of their life, and a medicated meat goat pellet with alfalfa meal as the main ingredient when they need to gain weight or as growing young bucks.

I don't do wethers so maybe I am just not of any help because of how I feel about wethers  I am just not one to spend money on something that is a pet only, so if they lived here they would get browse/pasture/hay.

Stop the sulmet at about 8 months old, I wean my kids onto a meat goat pellet that contains a cocci med, so I quit doing oral cocci meds when the kids are eating 1 pound of their medicated feed a day. Your wethers don't need anywhere need that much feed, so their bloodlevel of the medicated grain could never reach high enough.

Perhaps 1 pound of alfalfa pellets each day? With your hay, minerals and then if they loose condition in the winter, even though wormed, maybe use a grain or meat goat pellet that contains AC.

Sorry but I don't believe a buck can consume enough AC in a mineral. Not unless it was full of molassas to get them to eat it. Vicki


----------

