# Help with large gash!



## Daniel Babcock (May 28, 2008)

I am at work and have not seen the gash, however my boys called this morning at milking to tell me that one of our does was pushed into a broken tree limb while sparring and she has a large gash 2" x 2" irregular in shape just behind her front leg.

I have a staple kit but have never used it.

I have banamine and Penn g as well as La 200 how should I treat this? 

What is the best way to staple this? 

I have a meeting but will be heading home soon! 

Thanks in advance.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

1cc banamine per 100 lbs. It will help calm her so you can work on her more gently.
CD-T shot if the doe hasn't had one for awhile, B-complex as well 5 cc-7ccs, Pro-bios for that rumenBy the time your done measuring and giving shots and such the banamine should have kicked in.
Wash wound with sterile water, clean debris out. Wash wound with LA 200. Staple edges of skin as close together as possible, you may have to trim the edges to get a fresh edge so it will heal nicely. Treat with anti-biotic wash daily, watch for infection.
Others can correct me but I don't think she needs Pen-G or systematic anti-biotics, only when there is infection. Be clean, clean, clean!
Tam


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## dawnwinddg (Aug 29, 2010)

I agree with Tam if the skin is torn off in a flap. Otherwise, the key to a deep gash is for the inside to heal before the outside does. Povidone Iodine ointment has always done well for us as it keeps everything moist and bacteria-free. It's amazing how well it will close up.
Frances


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## tendermeadowsnigerians (Sep 8, 2010)

Giving Pen-G is a personal preference, I personally give it when theres a large or deep cut/gash just because even if you clean it out you may miss some tiny particle and i would rather prevent then treat infection. 
Also if you can not staple or close the wound and you dont want a big ugly scar then keep the wound clean and moist, not dry!! Keep it covered with an antibiotic ointment and it will heal much prettier then if it is kept dry. My main buck got attacked by the neighbors dog and was chewed up pretty bad over the summer, he had quite a few nice holes in him and they have all healed up and his hair has grown over all of them. His only remaining scar is where his tail was.

Good luck!!


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## Daniel Babcock (May 28, 2008)

Here is a picture. I flushed t he wound with pen-g after stapling it up it was pretty nasty. I was a little hasty when I got home and saw the wound, I quickly went out and cleaned the wound trimmed he hair and excess fat pulled the two edges together and stapled it shut.

I now have her in a rehabilitation pen with a yearling for companionship.

I thought LA 200 injected sq and Penn-g were both systemic and could both be used topically as well.


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## Daniel Babcock (May 28, 2008)

I will post a picture of the staple work!


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Okay, Pen-G (per Aja-Sammati--computer is down) 3-6cc's per 100lbs or any anti-biotic. She says for week. How deep was the wound? Is she doing fine otherwise.
Tam


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## Daniel Babcock (May 28, 2008)

She is doing fine, a little scared of me after the staples and the shots of penn-g and banamine. The wound closed up pretty well. She hopped up on the milk stand and is eating drinking and walking fine, she is really acting like nothing happened, other than being rather flighty when I am around.

Can you all see the picture I posted of the wound?


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

No it didn't come through. 
Now watch it close for the next couple of days and finish the week of Pen-G. If this had been a dog bite you wouldn't have wanted to staple the wound, dog bites need to ooze to get the nasties out. Very bad medicine dog bites, dealt with my fair share last October :/. Our Gwedlyn healed quite nicely without doing any sewing. Also you might want to trim that broken limb .
Tam


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

When it's deep you really want to give tetanus antitoxin, an adult do gets the whole 1500 units. I can't see the photo, but if it's deep enough to stick your finger into it, it really needs a drain, you might want to try to flush peroxide into it daily for a few days trying to keep the bottom of the wound open for as long as you can. Softening it up before you try to do this with warm compresses. If the outside heals before the inside finishes draining you can get an nasty abcess. I am not fan of antibiotics for stuff like this if you got the wound clean and already flushed it...in our area it is more important to flush with antitoxin than with antibiotics. Antibiotics do such a number on the rumen, at the very same time you have a goat who is going to be less mobile, eating less of her natural diet because she can't go out with the herd and forage. If she is able to walk in the morning, her best medicine is to get her out with her friends, it will also give her alot less time to spend laying down and chewing on the staples...if she does this, than a bucket with the bale removed and the bottom cut out makes an excellent elisabethian collar for her. Vicki


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## Sharpgoat (Feb 7, 2008)

I found a link to the pic see if it works.
It looks to me like a flap of skin with some fat hanging from it.
Fran

http://sweet-deseret-farm.googlegro...x-UUoHUisQZpC1EYYifymnkUM1zD6b83JckoSOho1YHcD


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Thanks Frances I put it on my photobucket for you Daniel. 









It is a pretty deep gash. I do hope she is fine for you. 
Tam


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## Daniel Babcock (May 28, 2008)

Thanks so much for your help Tam, Fran and Vicki! 

Zheng is doing remarkably well. I have isolated her because the girls are all sparring right now. I don't know if it is hormonal because everyone is in and out of heats or what. 

The wound is weeping from the bottom, I just gave her a CDT booster less than 30 days ago but will get some antitoxin today if you still recommend this.

She never went down, the wound is not hampering her at all she eats and drinks and forages the same as she always has, although she has been very shy around me. Did not like the staples or the shots.

And yes I have cut of the broken branch.


Thanks again!


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## ellie (Nov 17, 2007)

Last weekend I ran into a long-time goat breeder who uses STP for goat wounds. Apparently some vets are familiar. Anyone ever heard of it? I don't even know what's in STP but apparently it cures wounds.


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## Daniel Babcock (May 28, 2008)

I don't even know what STP is?


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## ellie (Nov 17, 2007)

Oil treatment for your car....


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I was thinking you meant the drug STP, kind of line a speed LSD. The 70's  Vicki


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## ellie (Nov 17, 2007)

Lol, you musta grown up in California!


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

So Daniel I would like a pic with it all sewn up And just watch the exude coming from the wound.
Tam


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## Daniel Babcock (May 28, 2008)

Here is a picture of the stapled gash. We continue to dose with Penn-G the discharge continues to be clear, her temp is consistent with the rest of the herd 102 ish for both am and pm milkings. We are giving her probios at both milkings, she is doing well, though production is down somewhat.


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## Sharpgoat (Feb 7, 2008)

Here it is as a link.
Fran

http://sweet-deseret-farm.googlegro...No2ug24Dw65gLFwBE5Tb_vjspK02CR95VRrtmeQ&hl=en


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## Bella Star (Oct 27, 2007)

Look's Great ,Good job ,clean and neat !!
I could not have done as good :nooo


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## Daniel Babcock (May 28, 2008)

Francis-

I don't know why it keeps droppinig my pictures . . . guess I will have to get a photo bucket account or something. My apologies.

This was my first attempt at using staples. I was very pleased with how easy it was. I did not administer any pain killer or sedate the goat in any way. She pawed and kicked a little as I manipulated the skin but all in all it was easier than I anticipated.

If you don't have a stapler, I highly reccomend them. 

QUESTION:


She is pretty swollen underneath the wound area. Where the flaps of skin covered the open wound it is quite puffy. I guess this is to be expected whereas it was such an open wound. We are still administering Penn-G and pro-bios, is there anything else that we should be watching for.

Thanks


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## Sharpgoat (Feb 7, 2008)

I don't have photo bucket account need to get one.
I found if I left click on where the pic should be I could open a link to it.
Fran


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Very nice staple job Daniel! Looks very clean and should heal wonderfully
Tam


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## NPgoats (Mar 18, 2010)

Wow! Nice staple job. I've seen vets that haven't done as nice of a job as that.
Glad she's doing better.
Linda


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

It's why a drain would have been punched through the skin, to stop the fluids from pooling lower in the wound. Sort of like you formed a cup by not cutting the bottom of the skin more up and down, with the skin only going over the side it forms a cup in the wound that holds drainage. Also think about shaving the area next time, a big circle around it, it's impossible to get hair sterile enough to stitch up and it you won't believe how much eaiser it is to not only staple the skin then, but to see what you are doing.

If you get a chance to ever see your vet stitch up something like this, don't sit out in the waiting room, help.

Excellent job, the lump will be a hard place for awhile, the body has to absorb all of this, you can use topical DMSO rubbed on it to help soften it if she is a show animal, otherwise I would leave her be. Plus with the hair still there you would want to shave it so it can be cleaned to rub in the DMSO.


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## Ziggy (Nov 13, 2009)

Very impressive. Can someone tell me where or what staple kit you would recommend. I have seen (and helped) my vet give stitches but those were hand sewn - this stapler idea looks real good.

I think I'd like to get one and have it on hand..just in case


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## Sharpgoat (Feb 7, 2008)

Here you go
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=c8593e04-7e14-431f-b59c-19ee54558c94

And you will need this too.
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=16673fbe-6abe-4925-b564-6160a059b8ce


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## Ziggy (Nov 13, 2009)

Thanks much - will be on my next order..


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## cstafford (May 30, 2010)

Wow, I am impressed! Daniel, have you done anything like this before? Valley vet should pay you a percentage cause I'm gettin one too!


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## Daniel Babcock (May 28, 2008)

This is the first time I have had an injury that required stitches or staples. Shaving would have made the job much easier. However, although I had banamine I did not know that it was a pain killer/sedative and therefore thought shaving her would only exacerbate her already spooky state, making it more difficult to staple. 

Vicki she is a show goat, took first each time I showed her last year as a first freshener. 

What is DMSO? Where can I get it and how do I apply it? Thanks


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Dimethyl sulfoxide, DMSO is a sulfur solvent. It can drag drug into the lower levels of the skin and is used topically to do this with arthritis swellings. It also seems to break down fluids and vaccinations etc...under the skin. We used to apply it to CAE Swollen knees, back when we were in denial that some of our does simply swelled up their knees when traveling to shows. It is part of a brace, liniment used in horses for years. You can get it in jeffers, I get mine from a local vet who sells it from a bulk gallon jug, sold in a glass jar with a stick on the lid that has a round sort of sponge on the end  sorry...can't think of what that is called..stobber? Anyway, make sure the skin is super clean and free from the cleaning chemical also you used, and massage it in, use gloves. It's excellent when dealing with congested udders also.....there are tons of useages (I worked for a dermatologist in the late 70's and they used it for herpes) my mom used it for her horses and her arthritis, and of course they are all off label, especially in meat producing animals and humans


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## Bella Star (Oct 27, 2007)

I bought mine at Tractor supply but it is not a big amount like needed for horses ,as I use it on myself and I have never used it on my goats yet . It is strong stuff so use a small amount as it is hotter than any BenGay on the market and it will ruin (dissolve) some fabrics and plastics like tv remotes,phones and cheap glasses :sigh


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## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

We used DMSO several years ago when one of our Boer kids got Navel Joint Ill. (No swelling in navel, just the swollen joint in right front leg, and then less swelling in left front leg). Anyway, we massaged the affected legs with it - our vet suggested it. (Also administered Excenel/Naxcel).

Also used it on my DHs' ankle when he sprained it so badly two winters ago. Helped it heal faster. BTW, he could taste the DMSO about 5 minutes after I got done massaging the ankle/foot.


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

I just attended an excellent class on herbal treatment of goats. While I won't use herbal wormers, the wound treatment sounds great. Cayenne will stop bleeding and comfrey can be used in lieu of staples/stitches.


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## Daniel Babcock (May 28, 2008)

I am thinking it is past time to take the staples out. 

How long should they remain in?

I would like to shave the wound area and apply DMSO.


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## Ziggy (Nov 13, 2009)

My vet has told me 10-14 days for stitches so assuming it has healed I'd say they really need to come out soon.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

C section on Monday morning, staples out on Friday morning and send you home. It's why we use staples, no more 10 days. It's likely to late also to use the DMSO the mass of dead blood is likely now solid, it will have to absorb on it's own...the DMSO rubs work better when it's liquid (like vaccination shot sites) etc...that you want to absorb.


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## Sharpgoat (Feb 7, 2008)

I had a goat that had a tear in the same place and had her sewn up buy the vet.
The vet said to take the stitches out at 14 days.
Well when the stitches came out it came back open not as big but still open.
So I would go longer then 14 days.
Fran


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## Daniel Babcock (May 28, 2008)

Thanks . . . I will take them out tonight. Now that there is a hard mass there of scar tissue, is there anything I can use to help the healing?

I found DMSO at a local farm/ranch store.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

It won't hurt anything to use the DMSO.....time will absorb all the dead blood also. I have only used DMSO during the injury/surgery to keep this from forming...it's also why you use drains and keep the bottom of the suture area open and the puss moving.


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