# Crippled kid or just needs more time?



## Dana (Dec 7, 2009)

I had posted a few days ago about leg problems in a few kids. Everyone suggested Bo-se. I administered Bo-se to them yesterday and will do it everyday for awhile, but I'm worried this is a bigger problem.

The smallest one is the worse. She seems to army crawl using her shoulders only, while her knees and feet appear useless. (She is almost 2 weeks old, takes her bottle, scoots about and is gaining weight.)

I just can't believe she will ever walk normal and wanted to know if others have had a kid this bad! I will try to post pictures in a minute, but I don't know how to resize so they can fit on DGI.


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## Dana (Dec 7, 2009)

I posted pictures at the bottom of my home page on my website. Please let me know if you think she is truly crippled or if Bo-se will really help her. Triplecrossfarms.weebly.com

Thanks


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## AlaynaMay (May 12, 2012)

I've read of contracted tendons... do you think it could be that? How old is she?


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## Hobbyfarmer (Nov 1, 2012)

I read your previous post but I'm still having a difficult time visualizing your problem. Is it shoulder or leg related? 

I had a one buckling (also a triplet) with hind leg issues. I made him a splint from a wooden paint stirer, vet wrap, bandage padding and tape. It worked perfectly in combination with selenium vit E gel. I splinted at 2 days old. It was resolved in a week. If you've never bandaged a leg before use caution. If done inappropriately you can easily cause swelling and create new problems. Probably time to take these kids to a vet. Do you have a good goat vet?


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## Dana (Dec 7, 2009)

Alayna May, she is almost 2 weeks old. 

What do you do for contracted tendons?


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## Dana (Dec 7, 2009)

Michelle, I have an okay-vet. My husband and I are thinking we may have to put her down! She walks very slanted forward and skates on her ankles with bowed out front leg.

I would take her to the vet but she gave me a hard time about buying Bo-se from her last year. Said it can cause abortions in goats and that Bo-se is for sheep.


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## Hobbyfarmer (Nov 1, 2012)

Can you manipulate the legs into position? Or are her bones misshapen?


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## Dana (Dec 7, 2009)

> Michelle, I have an okay-vet. My husband and I are thinking we may have to put her down!


 The doeling, not put the vet down, but the little doeling! :lol


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## Dana (Dec 7, 2009)

I try to straighten her legs by pushing on her knees. They appear very stiff. I can work on her knees a few times a day, but that doesn't seem to be the real problem. 

I wish I could explain her problem better. Maybe the pictures will help. It just seems like her shoulders do all the work and her legs are like sleds.


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## AlaynaMay (May 12, 2012)

I like your website, especially your homepage 
Apparently contracted tendons is a vitamin A and D deficiency. I've never dealt with it before, but here is what I read:
"Contracted Tendons:
The kids are born with their front legs bent under them so the stand on their toes- this can affect either one leg or both legs. The impression is that the flexor tendons are pulled up too tight, which is exactly what has happened. In extreme cases the leg or legs assume and S bend...
Drought or overhead main grid power lines can both interfere with the correct synthesis of vitamins A and D.... One half a teaspoon cod liver oil straight in the mouth fixed the problem."
Apparently feeding a homemade "colostrum" made from warm milk (I don't know how much) with 1 teaspoon cod liver oil and 1/2 teaspoon seaweed meal helps a lot too.


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## todog (Dec 10, 2011)

try warm epsom salts soaks and move the affected limbs while they are immersed in the water. also pvc pipe cut in half lengthwise makes a great splint. be sure to pad really well.


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## todog (Dec 10, 2011)

i just looked at your website and ya i think if you are willing to try to save her why not try the other advise plus the epsom salt soak and munipulation of the front legs. plus try splinting too, it cant hurt. awww, she is so cute. but then i am the owner of a crippled goat, cerbrella hypoplasia cat and a blind dog, so you know what i would do. the little goat seem happy enough. have you ever considered a house goat? :biggrin


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## Nancy (Oct 25, 2007)

We had one where the bottom of the hooves touched her chest. We massaged and stretched her legs daily. We also splinted her legs and redid them every few days when she got older. She was over 2 months old before she could stand upright with splints on. It took 4 months before she was able to walk normal again without anything on. She was one of triplets and the tendons were severly contracted. We ended up naming her Boots and she went bjdis 4 months later. The stretching and massaging will help tremendously, you will see a little bit of improvment every few days. The picture is about where boots was at 2 months old. Hope this helps.


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## happy vagabonds (Jun 24, 2012)

Dana said:


> > Michelle, I have an okay-vet. My husband and I are thinking we may have to put her down!
> 
> 
> The doeling, not put the vet down, but the little doeling! :lol


 :rofl


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

Do you see the swaying of the back when you try to prop her up? I had a copper deficient ND kid once (in TX). I kept her going for months. Did daily BoSe shots. Therapy, etc. It got to where I knew there were no options, but hated to think of putting her down. One day she just passed. Copper deficiency can affect the heart, and interestingly the sister that seemed fine died of heart failure a week before the one I was treating. I know it was heart failure cause the mama goat screamed. I ran out of the house and saw her drop. I listened with my stethoscope, and her heart was erratic, and then she just died. Personally I will not do that again. Mild issues should respond to treatment quickly. Severe issues I'm putting the goat down. Thankfully I haven't seen that again.

I'm also concerned about inbreeding in the ND breed. I printed out pedigrees of the NDs I owned at that time all the way back to the foundation animals that came from zoos, and I was really surprised at how much inbreeding there was. It would be nice if ADGA would retroactively fill in the pedigrees so the percentages could be seen. I'm not sure if AGS provides that info when requested or not. I felt I saw reduced vigor in that particular group of NDs compared to the Mini Nubians I was breeding at the same time. My records confirmed that all my health problems were in the NDs, not the minis. It was a big reason I decided to sell out of NDs. I think it is something to watch for.


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## Good Goats (Oct 26, 2007)

I have a very small MiniNubian doe who tends to always have litters of kids. I think it's happened twice now, one of the kids will come out with legs looking almost exactly like your doeling's. I think it must be because they are all crunched in there.

I give the kid a BoSe shot just to help them out incase they need it, but the thing that has always worked is splinting the kids legs with popsicle sticks. Just straighten the kids leg to the best you can (it doesn't matter if it's not all the way straight), and tape it on. Typically after a few days they will start to straighten out, and you can re-tape the legs. I have had a handful of kids have this over the years and they have always grown out of it. Once they are a few months old you would never know.


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## AlaynaMay (May 12, 2012)

That makes sense according to what I read. Most kids grow out of it, but the Vitamins A and D help speed it up.


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## Good Goats (Oct 26, 2007)

Yes, A&D help as well.


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## Qadosh Adamah Lamanchas (Nov 2, 2012)

I had a kid like this once. He was actually born normal...then his legs bowed out and he walked funny (only the front legs) and then after a few weeks, he righted himself. The only thing I did in that time was to keep his hooves well trimmed since he wasn't wearing them down normally and I also gave him a copper bolus. Dolomite is supposed to help with leg/hoof issues, and you may want to give her a pinch twice a day. I had a doe once with a contracted tendon and instead of cutting the tendon (by vet recommendation), we just butchered her at the end of her lactation cycle. It doesn't look (from the pictures) to be white muscle disease, but a bose shot couldn't hurt.


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

I adopted a newborn ewe lamb that looked just like your little kid. BO-SE and A&D injections had her normal in a couple of weeks.


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

My goat mentor always administers A&D along with BoSe. She had a little Boer kid a few years ago who took a while to be able to use her back legs. She dragged them splayed behind her. We did the BoSe/A&D and also gave oral vit.E. She eventually was able to walk and was sold. I saw her this fall when she came back for breeding and she's walking like a normal goat.


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## Hobbyfarmer (Nov 1, 2012)

These responses are promising. Please update with any progress.


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## Dana (Dec 7, 2009)

I went out and did my 2nd Bo-se injection tonight so I guess I'll see in a few days. I have been giving vit E daily and now I just need to go down to TSC and buy some A & D.

I'll do physical therapy on her legs too. 

All the helpful ideas are giving me hope that she will outgrow this after all! Thanks everyone!


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

I don't see the picture on your website.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

fmg said:


> I don't see the picture on your website.


Scroll to the bottom of the home page.


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## AlaynaMay (May 12, 2012)

I just checked... They aren't there anymore.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Yeah, I did, and it isn't there, and I tried refreshing just in case and it was gone too. Must have been removed.


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## Dana (Dec 7, 2009)

Yeah, I took the pics off last night. I don't want to scare away any potential customers that are interested in buying baby goats from me. I would have a hard time convincing them that "she'll grow out of it". 

BTW -she is looking a little better today. I couldn't believe it! Just 2 Bo-se shots and a few leg extensions later and I feel that she may really be able to live a normal life!


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Your dam is manganese deficient. It is called Abnormal Flexion. 
Selenium has nothing to do with it. It causes cartilage abnormality and irregular growth.
AD&E will help but you would do well to supplement your dams with Mineral Max during gestation and just prior to kidding. 
Bowing of all sorts can be vit D related as well- in the dam. 
Your dam is deficient during gestation and the milk she produces is deficient. 

Manganese is your issue.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

You can dose the kid as well at 1/4 cc with Min Max.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

I looked at your kids for sale page, and it looks like a lot of them seem to have some sort of leg issue. I wonder if you gave the manganese to all of them, as Lee suggested, if it would be corrected? It is most obvious in Fiona and Hansel's pictures that there is something not quite right going on...or are those the kids you are having issues with?


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## Dana (Dec 7, 2009)

Hansel and his twin sister were like that for 1-2 days. She had weak back ankles he had weak front ankles. Every hour they were stronger and straightened out by themselves.

Fiona, Christabel and Diva have the _exact _same legs problems in the _exact_ same manner; bowed front legs and shoulder issues.

The weird part is that the middle triplet Bella was strong and healthy from the moment she hit the ground. It was like she came from a different dam.

Also, I had triplets and twins born in October with NO problems.

I personally blame the dams' health/ genetics of these new doelings. I swear, they were inbred. I've never seen anything like this current situation.

I will update with my next kiddings to see if they have weak legs in the kids. I have 2 does due on the 30th.


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## Dana (Dec 7, 2009)

I said I'd update with other kiddings to see if it's a mineral deficiency in the herd. I had a Nigerian FF kid this morning, twins and they had perfect feet and legs! :biggrin

I ended up giving away the doeling to a couple in the area. They were told everything I knew about her and strongly suggested them to go to DGI for more info.

I don't know if they did or not, but they didn't seem interested in the forum idea. (Nobody that I talk to does...) They contacted me a few days later; said she is doing great and wanted to know who my vet was. I gave them her name and number, they were happy with that.


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## todog (Dec 10, 2011)

Awww good for you for giving her a chance. The couple were probably very happy to have her.


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## Dana (Dec 7, 2009)

I gave them a beautiful buckling also, I just don't have the time right now to wait for someone to come buy him for $200 and I thought it would be better for the doeling to have a companion.

The couple asked me a few days later if I had other doelings for sale and how much. I told them yes $250 and up. They didn't reply. I don't think they realize how much goats go for.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

My friend has a herd of saanens that have started kidding last week and has several with these contracted tendons. She thought it was selenium deficiency, but I will tell her to dose her does and kids with some A & D, and I will dose the kid I borrowed for a companion to my new doeling so she is not by herself as well.


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