# CAE Prevention and colustrum???



## IndyGardenGal (Jun 11, 2009)

This may seem like an obvious question, but I want to make sure we do everything properly. We have two does that will be kidding in March. This is our first kidding, so we don't have any colostrum frozen to use to bottle feed these kids.

I want to make a list that DH and I can go over (have been doing this with the kidding management stickies) to make sure we cover all of our bases in the chaos of it all. Do you use a powdered colostrum, or do you milk your does to get the colostrum (then pasteurize, and bottle feed)?


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## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

Dry the little babies off and put them in a warm spot and milk your doe out. Take her colostrom and heat treat it very slowly over a double boiler unti it reaches 135 degrees and hold it at that temperature for one hour. Once you get it to that temp you can put it in a preheated thermos jug that you know will hold it's temp that long. I use a pot with a tight fitting lid that I set down in a larger pot with water. Once it reaches 135 degrees I put the lid on and leave it sitting in that hot water for an hour. You can turn the fire back on to heat the water back up if it starts to cool off too quick. You have to be careful with your colostrum. It has to be heated slowly, stirring constantly and don't over heat it or it will turn into a thick pudding. Once the goat's milk comes in, after about 3 days, you can pasteurize your milk by heating it to 165 degrees while stirring. The rules say to keep it at 165 degrees for 15 seconds. I hold mine at 165 degrees for at least a minute while I am stirring it. They make home pasteurizers that make all of this easier and some of the girls here may use a turkey fryer or a crock pot. I just always used the double pot method. Try to get your Saanen babies to drink a whole 16 ounce bottle of colostrom within the first 24 hours. Probably won't have a problem getting them to do that. My Alpine babies usually can do that within 2 or 3 feedings.


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## IndyGardenGal (Jun 11, 2009)

Thank you so much for your help! Our Alpine should be kidding prior to the Saanen. If possible, should we pasteurize all the colostrum we get from her and freeze the extra for the Saanen kids?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

And keep some colostrum replacer that has IeG's or similar stated on the label, it will tell you that an a number...otherwise it is a supplement and contains NO immune responce in it. If you have a trusted breeder who saves colostrum, get some from them, look at the negative paperwork for CAE yourself, buy it heat treated and/or thaw it and heat treat it yourself. Or go pick it up raw from does who are kidding before yours and practice heat treating it. Vicki


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## IndyGardenGal (Jun 11, 2009)

Is there a brand of colostrum replacer on Jeffers that would work? I would rather order it and not use it than not order it and need it!


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

I'm not yet sure where to find it, but a vet discussing prevention recommended Manna Pro colostrum replacer because it's got what the kids need.


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## Island Creek Farm (Jun 16, 2010)

I'm going to ask a stupid question here...sorry!

If my goats are ALL tested as CAE negative this year, no new goats since they were tested, and we have our first births in February, why do the CAE preventative? Can CAE be transmitted some other way?

Buck was neg too...our neighbors have goats, but they are a lake away...so unless they're positive and it's mosquito borne...??? This has been a 100% horse farm for the last 30 years (documented) if that matters...no sheep either.


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## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

The doe can harbor CAE in her body and it not show up until something stressful happens. If someone has CAE negative does for years and years and they test faithfully every year without having any positive result in their entire herd and they have a closed herd, no new goats coming in or around their herd and you don't go to goat shows, where we all know that we can pick up nasties everywhere from people who show positive animals, contaminate show pens and rings, then you could feed your goat's milk without pasteurizing and testing. But, most everyone who is looking to purchase clean animals wants to see that you test, they want to see those negative tests before purchasing kids and they want you to practice CAE prevention before you can get the big $$ for your kids.


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## Squires (Jul 23, 2010)

Johnnes may be in the milk, and can not be killed by the same heat-treatment that is recommended for CAE. There may be other diseases which will survive and be passed on by the milk with the lower temperature heat treatment.

BTW, there are goats that have been raised on heat-treated colostrum that have later tested positive for CAE. The temperature used to preserve the antibodies is lower than in full pasteurization. If the milk is not uniformly heated through, for the full hour, there could be virus surviving.

The trick I heard of to get a consistent product was to boil water to 135 degrees and put it in the thermos to preheat it. Then heat the colostrum to the desired temperature, empty the thermos and pour the hot milk into it. More likely to stay at that temperature the whole hour. Test the temperature when you open it again to be sure. The water-bath technique also sounds good. Small batches are more likely to work properly than larger batches, which would need to be stirred to make sure the temperature stayed uniform. 

CAE is not that easy to catch, except directly through colostrum, milk or blood. There is a lot of controversy about the possibility of catching it by other methods. Most studies say "not likely." 

Manna Pro is a good name. Another is "Colostrix" -- I believe. Haven't read the package for a while. Usually these are made from freeze-dried cow plasma and whey -- from cows that have been vaccinated and boostered so as to increase their production of antibodies.

There are supposed to be a couple of sources of freeze-dried goat colostrum or goat milk out there, but I have not tried them.


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## IndyGardenGal (Jun 11, 2009)

Thanks for all the input. Both of my girls have tested CAE negative, but I still want to be careful. I will get some Manna Pro to keep on hand, I will order this when I order for all kidding supplies I need. Thanks again!


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Mary,

You should be able to get it at TSC.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

It's a personal choice to continue testing and using prevention after testing negative. I don't know a goat who was raised on prevention by someone I trust (someone who doesn't have other peope or children doing their chores) who has had a doe convert to positive, ever. Old Agid testing, yes...Elissa, no.

For myself, although I do feed raw colostrum to doe kids now and then out of does who have tested negative for years, but I also am keeping the doelings until freshening, so old enough to test them if I decide to sell them as milkers. I heat treat and pasteurise because it gives me butter soft udders, very little to no pnemonia or symptoms of mycoplasma etc.. I don't even use young does colostrum, let alone a purchased does colostrum on the herd until she has several tests under her belt.

With the new tests, especially being able to track titers in your herd with biotracking, you should feel comfortable using colostrum from does YOU TESTED, especially does you caught at birth and raised yourself. Now will others buy those kids from you? That is the question, because I would not....it means me trusting you, on a kid I can't really get a reliable tests on for a year.


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## IndyGardenGal (Jun 11, 2009)

The titer levels for both does were exceptionally low, but I do plan on selling most of these kids. If the extra work means improving my reputation in the goat community, I'm willing to do it. I am hoping we'll be in a position to acquire a Saanen buck and possibly another Saanen doe in the spring. I LOVE my Bryrpatch Saanen and trust Sherrie 100% (Thanks Vicki for recommending Sherrie). She also raises on CAE prevention, does CAE testing regularly, and never hesitated to share tests results. I'd rather do the extra work and provide peace of mind to those interested in my stock--like Sherrie did for me. It's a personal choice for me, but it's what I feel most comfortable with.


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## Tracy in Idaho (Oct 26, 2007)

Make the heat treating easy on yourself and get a cheap deep fryer with a dial temperature control. Mine's a Presto that I think cost me $15 or $20. Well before your doe kids, fill it with water, and start checking the temp so that you know where your control needs to be, and mark it. I aim for 134-137 degrees. It won't pudding up to 140. Then you fill a freezer ziplock with the colostrum and float it in the water. Check to make sure the colostrum has gotten up to the correct temp, and then time it for an hour. I often have left it in for a lot longer because I get busy doing other things.

I label all my colostrum and I save it out of everyone. Buck kids that are going to the sale barn get colostrum from the first fresheners. Colostrum from the older does are used on the most valuable doelings and bucklings. I also label it as <12 hour or +12 hour colostrum. The +12 hour colostrum goes again to bucklings, or to supplement kids if I don't have enough early colostrum on hand.


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