# Buck got in breeding pen with another doe and buck!!!



## Ashlee H (Aug 5, 2009)

Well, I sorta got a bit of a weird situation here I guess. Yesterday, my Nubian doe, Honey was in heat! Well, no problem there, I got her and my Nubian buck, Donder in a pen, so she could get bred! I saw Donder mount and breed Honey several times! I left them in the pen together the whole afternoon, and was going to leave them together overnight as well, and put Honey back with the doe herd, and Donder back in the buck pen in the morning. All was fine that evening when I was feeding out the critters - they were doing their thing, and all seemed to be going well!

Well, when I went to check on them this morning, I found that my Texmaster buck, Jason, had broken into the pen as well, and was mounting and breeding her too!!!! :eek 

So, my question is, is it possible that both bucks bred her? I have herd before that 2 bucks can breed a doe, and she will have a kid from each, but I was not for sure if it would be true or now! If not, would it be more likely that Donder would be the father since he was breeding her 1st? Gosh, I just have never had this situation happen before - it's crazy!!!! :crazy I just thought I would check with you guys, and see what you all had to say! I guess I will know who the daddy is when they are born - if they are long and tall, they will be Donder's, and if they are shorter and stockier (meatier) they will be Jason's!


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

It is entirely possible that she could have kids from either, or both. DNA testing on the kids is also a possibility...I don't know if they will require that for registration, but they might.


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## Ashlee H (Aug 5, 2009)

That's what I was thinking - she could possibably have kids from both!!! And yes, if I have trouble when the kids are born, telling who their daddy was, I will do the DNA testing to find out and make sure! From what I have experianced with both of these bucks before, there was no dought they were the daddy! Donder has the long, tall "dairy" looking kids, and Jason's kids are shorter, and meater (even out of a dairy breed doe!) kids! It's just crazy, and really will be weird if she does have kids from both bucks! :O


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## DostThouHaveMilk (Oct 25, 2007)

They can conceive kids from multiple sires. I've had a couple of very obvious cases of this.
With regards to the ADGA, at least, none of the kids will be registerable/recordable (with the sire listed as known) without DNA testing done on the dam, the Nubian sire and each kid you want to register.
The doe is not to be exposed to another buck within 10 days of being bred.
Just ask me how I know. :sigh
I have a number of Whose Your Daddy's running around. This includes a doe I am fairly confident is one of only two doelings born to a young buck I lost. But since he died, and she would only be recorded as 50%, it does not justify the cost of DNA testing.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

If you don't want to spend the $35 per kid and doe and buck to prove they are his sire, abort the whole group and start over. This is the problem with having more than one breed or not having fort knox buck pens. Please don't think you will be able to guess when she kids, unless you are going to meat all the kids in the litter. Vicki


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## Ashlee H (Aug 5, 2009)

Well, honestly I would never abort for something like this - what happens, happens! Even if these will just be little Mixed breed mutt babies, that's fine with me - all baby goats are precious to me! And I am not trying to make allot of money selling purebred kids - my goats are mainly my pets, and I have them for my own enjoyment, but it is nice when I can make a little extra money selling some nice kids!  I would only abort if I knew a pregnancy would harm a doe - like a doeling getting bred too young, or something like that! There will be nothing wrong with this pregnancy like that, I just may not know who their daddy is! 

I was just mainly trying to find out if it was possible for a doe to be bred and have kids by 2 different bucks. Is it really hard to tell the difference between Purebred Nubian babies and Nubian/Meat goat cross kids? I mean, I just have never been in a situation like this where it mattered. I probably would only do the DNA testing if they looked like they were possibly Nubian kids, because I do register my dairy goats, but not so much on the meat goat herd, especially since they would be cross bred kids.

If they are out of my Texmaster buck, they will be fine, because my Texmaster kids sell very quickly - kinda wish I would have had more to sell this year, cause I sure could have sold them! I was just wishing for more Nubian babies next year, as I don't have many Nubians, and was wanting to build my dairy herd up.


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Mar 2, 2009)

Whatever you decide to do with the babies, your Texmaster buck is a handsome fellow. I love Texmasters and if I ever cross for meat babies I hope I can find a TM buck to breed my girls to.


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## DostThouHaveMilk (Oct 25, 2007)

It might be difficult to tell. It isn't always as obvious as we think. 
The point is, ethically, none of the kids can be registered with ADGA without the DNA testing because she was exposed to two bucks.
I had one doe exposed to our Boer/Saanen buck and our Nubian buck. I could tell at birth who was the offspring of who in the triplets. One Boer colored buck by William and two Nubian kids by Ivan (one buck, one doe). Since the dam was part Pygmy and the Nubian unregistered (though registerable) it didn't matter anyways. But having seen what the Boer/Saanen threw with dairy cross does and Pygmy crosses, I had a good idea of what to expect.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

> It might be difficult to tell. It isn't always as obvious as we think.
> The point is, ethically, none of the kids can be registered with ADGA without the DNA testing because she was exposed to two bucks


So very true ethically you either have them all tested or don't register any


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Well, those silly goats can really foil our plans! I think what you said about DNA testing if you think they are Nubian is a good idea. That way you can register w/ADGA. And if they are half Texmaster you won't have any problem. At least around here even half Boer or Spanish kids sell like hotcakes.


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## Ozark Lady (Mar 21, 2010)

I know that species are different.
But, my chihuahua female was bred many times by my chihuahua male, then she got away from one of my kids, and a beagle bred her.
I called the vet, and the vet said, most likely not a problem.
Now, if the beagle had bred her within minutes or hours of the first mating then we could have a problem. It proved out correct, all pups were chihuahua.

Think about it... a doe in heat has x number of eggs, so they ripen, and you said they mated all day, likely his sperm had already settled all of them. It would really be an off chance that one more egg, just matured, and got bred by Tex sperm, the other bucks sperm was already in there and alive still! It can happen, but you have a 98% chance that they are all pure. I don't know about the rules for registering them, but I bet your kids will be fine little nubians.


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## DostThouHaveMilk (Oct 25, 2007)

I have a grade Saanen doe.
One of the only does I probably settled this past Fall to AI. It went perfectly. That night my little 7/8 Alpine, 1/8 Boer buck got in with the herd. I couldn't stand it, so we lutalysed her. Not something we do willy nilly but I was hoping to AI her again and then ship her this year with a daughter out of her. Low and behold, my Boer buck broke into the pen the day she finally had her heats straightened back out. So he had been breeding her that night and morning. I threw her in with the 3/4 Alpine, 1/4 Boer buck in the hopes he would settle her.
She delivered a single doeling. Very, very dairy. Very much so the Alpine's kid and not the Fullblood Boer buck's kid.
Back to that day the 7/8 Alpine buck was with the herd. I had a Boer cross doe he had been breeding that day. Put her in with a 76% Boer buck. She delivered buck/doe by the Alpine cross and a doe by the Boer.

This all makes it sound like I never know who the sire is. Just to keep it in perspective. Exactly 5 days last year when bucks were where they were not supposed to be. We were breeding does from late July through to February. That was with 80+ does bred. So most of my breedings are solid known breedings with no other exposures. They simply aren't of interest in this discussion. lol
So far this year, things have gone as planned. That is with two bucks in one pen and the 6 bucks in another pen. With does cycling for the past month plus.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

MaryAnn goats are not like dogs goats have two horn which can ea produce mulitples in fact you could , tho very rare have bred her to one buck one month and another buck got to her next heat cycle and she possibly could have two different freshening dates with two different bucks.


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## Ozark Lady (Mar 21, 2010)

That would be weird, you would think labor and uterine contractions would push out all the babies.

I wouldn't abort, unless selling the kids is your main income. No matter what kind of kids they are, your doe will be freshened.


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

Plus, I don't believe the eggs is fertilized until about 24 hours after the standing heat is over?


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## Ashlee H (Aug 5, 2009)

Thanks everyone for all the comments and suggestions! This truly will be a very interesting kidding, that's for sure! And, her due date would actually be New Years as well! LOL! Boy, what a New Years surprise I may have! LOL!!!



Dost Thou Have Milk said:


> It might be difficult to tell. It isn't always as obvious as we think.
> The point is, ethically, none of the kids can be registered with ADGA without the DNA testing because she was exposed to two bucks.
> I had one doe exposed to our Boer/Saanen buck and our Nubian buck. I could tell at birth who was the offspring of who in the triplets. One Boer colored buck by William and two Nubian kids by Ivan (one buck, one doe). Since the dam was part Pygmy and the Nubian unregistered (though registerable) it didn't matter anyways. But having seen what the Boer/Saanen threw with dairy cross does and Pygmy crosses, I had a good idea of what to expect.


Yes, I will DNA test them to make sure before registering them with the ADGA to make sure. I know it may actually be difficult to tell the difference, but I know ethically, I would have to DNA test them to register them, and I want to do what is right!!!  
I was just wondering if when they are born, if I could, like you did with your doe and her babies! My Texmaster buck's babies have all been pretty similarly marked. Texmasters are similar to Boers in appearance and coloration. All of his kids have ether been traditional Boer marked, or looked like Paint Boers (more color than just on their head), even out of my solid black Alpine doe. But I will still DNA test to make sure if I plan on registering any of the babies with the ADGA.

My solid black Alpine doe, Ebony, was my oops breeding last year - escaped from her pen, and got in with the Texmaster buck. Was hoping I got their in time and they hadn't actually done anything. She had just gotten in with him (she slipped through the gate when we were driving a truck through the fields putting hay in the barn), so she was just in there with him a few minutes! I really hoped she hadn't been bred, but well, apparently she did, and gave me the cutest little doeling.


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

Here on my farm, she would be aborted. I have too many plans for my does and their offspring and so forth. I am not one to "guess" and hope to never meet anyone who does. I have no problem with giving a couple of injections to a doe and starting from scratch. I don't want to waste a whole breeding year because of a buck jumping into one of my doe pens.


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## Ashlee H (Aug 5, 2009)

Well, I guess that might be why I am different than allot of big goat breeders! I don't believe in aborting, especially for something like this! I would only abort a doe if I new the pregnancy would cause some harm to the doe (like a doeling getting bred too young, or for something like that)- and this pregnancy shouldn't! I am not out to make allot of money selling my goats! I have had as much of a demand this year for my Texmaster cross kids, as I have had for my Nubian kids, so I don't see there being any problem ether way. I just have so few Nubians, I wanted a couple more does to ad to my herd, that's all! This doe at twin bucks last year out of my Nubian buck, and I was hoping for twin does this time, but whatever she has, out of which eve buck will be fine with me! At least this doe will be in milk for me, and that is the most important thing, as I always have tons of bottle babies (goats and other animals - some of my own, and some belonging to other people!) each year, and she is my best producer. I shouldn't have any problem selling the kids ether way, no matter who their sire is! And I will DNA test to make sure if I plan on Registering any of them as well!


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

You'll have to let us know when the time comes. Good luck!


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

Ashley, my post sounded harsher than was my intent, one of those forum things. You did say in your post though, in response to mine, that you were not "out to make a lot of money" and therefore would not be motivated for that reason to abort the doe, as if that was the only reason I would abort the doe. My reason was not primarily money based. It was the loss of time and work and energy. The loss of the kids that I had planned for, that I had dreamed of, that I would have had a hand in forming by selecting the parents who carried the elusive magic genes. When you want the control and it is taken away it is a bummer is what it is.


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## Ashlee H (Aug 5, 2009)

OH, I know that wouldn't be the only reason someone who abort the doe - sorry I made it sound that way! I know, it is a big bummer not to have the breeding you planed! And I can see how that would really effect some other dairy goat breeders who had planed this specific breeding for a long time, and just dreamed of the babies those two parents would produce!!!! I might would consider it if I was in that situation as well. 

Belive me, I am really bummed about not knowing wether or not my Nubian buck is the daddy (because I am really wanting to get some daughters out of him - I have yet to have any Nubian daughters out of him - they have all been Nubian/Alpine cross daughters! LOL!), but I am just going to leave things as they are, and hope for the best! Hopefully, since my Nubian buck was in there with the doe all that time before the Texmaster buck broke in, he fertilized most of her eggs (and hopefully one will be a beautiful daughter! LOL!)

I do have 1 other Nubian doe I am going to breed to my Nubian buck, and I am going to make sure they are far away from my Texmaster buck as possible! I have a large stall in my barn, that is on the opposite side of the barn where the Texmaster buck is, and that is probably where the 2 will go when she comes into heat! I think that may be the best place for them, because there won't be any fence for the other buck to break through, plus he can't even see them on that side of the barn anyhow! So, that's my plan with the next Nubian breeding!!!


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

Actually I am a wee bit jealous that you have a Texmaster buck. I have 3 does that did not get bred last year because I do not have a meat breed buck to breed them to. I have a Boer doe and her two LaMancha cross daughters that need to be bred. I refuse to breed them back to a dairy buck. I need a Boer, Spanish, Kiko or something. But no horns, been there, done that!


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## Ashlee H (Aug 5, 2009)

Thanks!!!! I really like the Texmaster as a meat goat! I raise just Boers for a few years before (I showed and raised allot of full blood, registered stock too), but they just wasn't near as hardy, especially for living in the South! I noticed that allot of today's Boers had been overly pampered, and just required allot of special attention! I sold out most of my registered stock, and kept only a few of my very best, most hardy does, then found me the Texmaster buck to bred to them! The kids have all been great! I haven't had near the worm problems or other things like I did with the Full blood Boer kids. And the does didn't have any problems having them ether, and the babies were literally up and nursing with in minutes of birth!!! I am really impressed with the kids out of the Texmaster buck, and don't think I will ever go back to using a Boer for my meat goat herd! (I say meat goat herd, but I have been raising goats for about 8 yrs. now, and we have yet to eat any of our own! LOL!!!!) And the kids, even though they are only 1/2 Texmaster, sold very quickly - even the bucks! I actually should have left more of the bucklings intact this year, because I had more people interested in breeding bucks, than wethers (I always wethered a few for 4-H and show goats!)

But I know what you mean about the horns - they can cause allot of problems and be dangerous, and my Texmaster buck has got some really big, impressive looking ones!!!


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