# Pour On Cydectin



## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

I saw this posted on my wall by pipevet.com this morning. I know many use the pour-on orally without issue. Is the pour-on less expensive or do you have to give less? What is the benefit over the oral? I've only used the quest horse wormer occasionally in the past for my moxi, and am not familiar with this.


Pipestone Vet Sheep-Goats
Q: What makes cyedectin oral effective and the pour on not, from the label to me they look the same. An awful lot of people have and do use the pour on including me in the past. I will not be using the pour on in the future but would like to know the difference so i can tell others and be able to explain why.

A: The concentration is different and the carrier is objectionable and it is in violation of FDA regulations. I have had people over dose to the point of toxicity because the label may look the same but it isn’t the same.


----------



## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

No expert here, but it is the concentration strength. The oral is 1 mg/mL while the pour-on is 5 mg/mL. The recommended dose for oral is for sheep, not goats, so yes, if you are basing your worming protocol from DGI, you would have to drench a whole lot more for it to be effective. The injectable is 10 mg/mL so to give that orally, you'd use 1/2 as much as the pour-on dosages.

Not sure about the carrier issue. But since most of what we dose goats with is off-label, aren't we almost always in violation of FDA regulations?


----------



## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

LOL, that's what I was thinking about always being off-label. I did notice I'd have to give a lot more of the oral than either the pour on or the injectable. Is the injectable okay to use for goats orally?


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Yes people are using the injectable orally. It would be nice if they would share their info on fecals also, not just that they use it. I won't be changing, if the pouron given orally was harmful we would have thousands of dead dairy goats. Vicki


----------



## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

Yes, and my vet had me giving pour on at the rate of 1cc per 10 lbs, so we for sure would have lost goats by now. I have stepped back to 1cc per 20 lbs and have maintained control. I don't think I have much of a worm issue here though. It's hot and dry and my goats are dry lotted. I'm pretty much on the routine doses now.


----------



## Rose (Oct 26, 2007)

My vet (who has goats) said to bump it to 1 cc/20 pounds also. 

Yes, we are off label unless we use Safeguard, which doesn't work.
:yeahthat


----------



## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

I use the injectable orally. I bought it by mistake. It used to freak me out about dosages because I would HAVE to remember to 1/2 it because of the strength. No issues, fecals are good.

I've talked to Vicki about this. I have a retired doe that I want to try it on as an injectable (1cc/110 lbs I think? It's in the Wormer/Cocci section). Anyway, I fecalled this doe in the spring and I had 1 HC. Since we've had a good amount of rain again, I'll fecal again. Sad to say, but I'm hoping to see some HC so that I can test her with it as an injectable.


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

It is not that the injectable won't work as an injectable....it is the point, that is how we built such resistance so fast to Ivermectin injectable. Injecting it, when all the smartest minds including tests on goats from parisitologists say, all wormers should be given orally. Sorry but I will continue with what I am doing, it's one thing to mess with HC when you live where you get freezes or it's arid, it's a whole nother ballgame with the life of your does when you live in the hot/humid, non freeze south. Vicki


----------



## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Why wouldn't injectable given orally work the same as pour-on given orally, so long as you used the same dosage (in mg per lb of animal)? Do you think the carrier could somehow affect the absorption, so that the pour-on would be more effective?


----------



## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

fmg said:


> Why wouldn't injectable given orally work the same as pour-on given orally, so long as you used the same dosage (in mg per lb of animal)? Do you think the carrier could somehow affect the absorption, so that the pour-on would be more effective?


It does, Nancy. Not sure what you're referring to.


----------



## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Vicki McGaugh Tx Nubians said:


> Yes people are using the injectable orally. It would be nice if they would share their info on fecals also, not just that they use it.


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

At some point, shouldn't some of these dosages and routes and meds folks use, need to come with some proof other than their goats look good? Should they not be posting what actually works for them, not just what someone else (not matter who it is or what book they read it out of) does or said? Some citation? 

I know our forum as a whole is unlike most, where there is a large majority who fecal, who CAE test, so asking for more information is not a bad thing. 


Does the carrier effect the absorption in the gut, the rumen? How do we know that one form of Cydectin pouron, oral paste, injectable is exactly the same as the other if we do not test? Vicki


----------



## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

It is interesting to consider. I don't have a clue what kind of "stuff" they put in pour-ons, pastes, etc. Maybe someone living (in the south, on the coast, etc.) where there are a lot of parasites and using these things is willing to let us know what kind of results they are having? Anybody??


----------



## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Not sure where you're going with this, Nancy. Like I said, I use the injectable, ORALLY. One half the dosage strength as in GK101 because the med, as an injectable, is twice as strong.


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Do you fecal Cindy? What are your EPG that you fecal at. What eggs are seen on slide? After you worm do you fecal again and what percentage of kill do you have, and then at 21 days? Vicki


----------



## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

I'm not the one that brought it up, but it is interesting to consider....I'm gonna step back now, since I have a hard time typing things without my curiosity sounding offensive to people sometimes...


----------



## Aja-Sammati (Oct 26, 2007)

> it is in violation of FDA regulations


This is actually the most important part of this! The FDA- state & federal- have been majorly stepping up regulation of these, especially related to off-label use! The company doesn't want to lose their ability to do business by recommending off-label use...only your vet can do that.


----------



## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

My vet recommends pour on orally and at a dose twice as high as what is recommended on here, and claims this recommendation comes from vets at A&M, so I figure I am operating in a wholly legal manner. I guess if we want to cover our butts we can say "My vet recommends... Discuss it with yours." So silly...


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

It's certainly not a parasitologist at A&M giving him this information, both the meat goat facility in San Angelo and the dairy goat farm at Prarie View, give out the info we use on here. Vicki


----------



## Aja-Sammati (Oct 26, 2007)

Possibly they gave him the advise in regards to dealing with an outbreak? Someitmes what we say to people is just _not_ what they hear


----------



## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

It was advice they gave him Jan 2011 for folks already seeing barber pole worms in January. He said they were also recommending at that time worming every two weeks for people already having a problem in January. Likely the advice was aimed at people experiencing cydectin resistance, not people like me who had never used cydectin cause I had been previously advised it was the wormer of last resort.


----------



## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Vicki McGaugh Tx Nubians said:


> Do you fecal Cindy? What are your EPG that you fecal at. What eggs are seen on slide? After you worm do you fecal again and what percentage of kill do you have, and then at 21 days? Vicki


I'm assuming you're talking about me using Cydectin Injectable orally.

Yes, I fecal. Unfortunately, I don't keep good notes or records (shame on me!). In my adult herd, I fecal, and have not (to my recollection) found much of anything on fecal. So I worm at prebreeding and at kidding (and yes, I fecal then, too, but don't find much). I fecal throughout the year and only find an HC or two and a cocci or two. So the % of kill and the re-fecal at 21 days is a mute point (even though I do re-fecal).


----------

