# AU Grazer- Serica Lespedeza



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Wondering if anyone found a place to buy less than 50 pounds of seed?
Would like to add it to our fall planting while the ground is open since you do need to prepare a seed bed.
Any info welcome. 
Lee


----------



## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Do you have any growing near, considered picking it? I know you wouldn't get a whole lot that way, but enough to get it started. I picked a bunch last year but didn't plant it. Got a little nervous it might take over. But I've changed my mind. I'm going to plant some. If you don't have any around, the stuff near my home is budding out and I'd be glad to get you some seed. Of course, it may not be the strain you are wanting. But it seems to grow well and the goats love it!


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

That is a very kind offer Ashley! I also can go harvest on a farm near here who has it naturalized. I just wanted to try the improved grazer type that is more palatable as a forage plant. They have selected for less woody growth. I should get lots of strains going really to see what is hardy and what is yummy too. Let me know how it does for you and how hard it is to establish.


----------



## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Will do. I know palatability is no problem! They will knock me over when they see me coming with it and when I put it in the feeder, they grumble at each other and attack it until it's gone lol. Might as well be alfalfa hay.


----------



## Hollybrook (Jul 17, 2009)

Approximatly how much are you looking for Lee, I know some people up at AU that I could ask.

Dave


----------



## Holly Govero (Mar 26, 2009)

I wish that I can plant the serica lespedeza. But I dont know if it is okay for me to use it in MO. How am I suppose to know?? I am tired of my pastures being soo stemmy and my goats wont eat those stuff much. I am tired of it.


----------



## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

No reason not to use it in MO that I know of Holly.


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Some states ban it as an invasive weed but I don't know which species or if it is all of them.
Kansas bans hairy les but you would have to ask your county agent or usdag rep about status on that.
There are several improved varieties but AU Grazer will tolerate defoliation and has root knot nematode resistance. The 50 pound bag was 400.00 at Seedland!!! 

Dave that is very kind. Let me know what you find out. I thought maybe one of us interested parties could get a bag and distribute smaller amts by mail but it goes a long way and would have to have commitment for the whole 50 pounds to make it work - 20 pounds per acre is recommended use and we are just doing a small plot maybe 1/3rd acre of mixed perennials because you do have to prepare a seedbed- it cannot be overseeded. So I would like to work with maybe 4 or 5 pounds since it will not be the only thing seeded. Thanks for that offer.

Maybe Tim found a place to buy less than 50 pounds and he will let us know.


----------



## Holly Govero (Mar 26, 2009)

Thank you guys.. I didnt meant to hijack the thread. I need someone to point me out which seeds should I plot for the winter.. Becuz i dont like what my pasture been doing for couple of years. It is so stemmy and the goats wont even touch it and even the cows too. I give up. I wanna do something differently.. Let me know. Thanks!!


----------



## Rose (Oct 26, 2007)

It's ok to plant in Missouri.


----------



## Ziggy (Nov 13, 2009)

I think the seed is a little cheaper if you buy it direct from Sims Brothers. I looked into it last year but never got around to ordering.

I am planning on trying to plant a couple of acres in spring.

http://simsbrothers.com/ourProducts.htm


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Anybody want to split up a 50 pound bag? We could ship it to each other in flat rate boxes? I would take some also Lee if you want to do it...find out how much it costs and I will send you payment for 10 pounds? That way you aren't stuck with it and then nobody wants the rest if we pay ahead of time. Vicki


----------



## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

I would probably be interested in some, too.


----------



## Sharpgoat (Feb 7, 2008)

I would love to get some seed for a test plot. :yes
Fran


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Ok let me get more info on pricing and shipping and we will start a list of who and how much. We are about to start 2 back to back festivals so I will have to do it in between being gone. I have a note in to Sims and they are good about answering quickly.
Vicki if you hear from Tim ask him if he still needs seed or got some and where ok?
Thanks
Lee


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I will email him. Just flat rate ship it so we pay $11 for the medium box or $14 for the large box. Vicki


----------



## ellie (Nov 17, 2007)

5 lb bags available here 
http://www.hancockseed.com/seed-varieties-241/lespedeza-seed-399/


----------



## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

Oh, nevermind. The sericea lespedeza is illegal here. The kind in the 5 lb bags is a different variety of lespedeza...the sericea is all 50 lb bags. It is illegal for use in KS and CO. I guess that means it's ok everywhere else.


----------



## Lynn_Theesfeld (Feb 21, 2010)

I would also be interesting in splitting some  

Lynn


----------



## Hollybrook (Jul 17, 2009)

Ellie its not the same AU Grazer withstands grazing and haying pressure better than other varieties and its cheaper.

Dave


----------



## ellie (Nov 17, 2007)

Good to know!


----------



## Hollybrook (Jul 17, 2009)

Sit tight Dr. Wolfs checking on this for me if it doesnt pan out I could drive over to Sims to pick up some up next week for $4.50/lb plus USPS flat rate shipping.


----------



## ellie (Nov 17, 2007)

Good to know!


----------



## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

The only supplier I know of is Sims brothers.

http://simsbrothers.com/aboutUs.htm

http://www.scsrpc.org/SCSRPC/Sericea/sericea.htm

I have not planted it but somehow I thought it was to be planted in the Spring. I am preparing some seed beds for sowing right now - I would like to plant some AU grazer in my pastures but am not certain it should be planted now.

Here are some comments from a long time goat breeder on the matter - take it for what it is worth.

I will give a website:
www.scsrpc.org they have some things about using copper boluses and may have the sericea lespedeza study if the site has been updated in 2007. I had planted lespedeza in 1980 but the goats liked it so much eventually they killed it out. I am planning to replant some this year. It needs to be seeded about late March or April. Need to plow, use an innoculant, cover the seed a little. It is very drought resistant and the goats just love it.
The thing in it that gets the worms is a type of tannic acid. I asked at the clinic if tannic acid in other plants such as oak would do the same thing and they said no. There is also a new variety of the plant which has a finer stem and more leaves on the stem than the common variety. It is called AU Grazer, the AU is for Auburn University. The kobe lespedeza does not have the same property of reducing the worms as the sericea. The USDA researchers told me that the common sericea is not as palatable to the goat as the AU Grazer, but my goats think it is palatable and eat the entire plant, big stems and all. They like it better than honeysuckle if you can believe that! This experiment station has been on the trail of the haemonchus contortus worm for several years and used my herd as guinea pigs one time. I always volunteer for stuff like that. They have had good success in the sheep by breeding for resistance. We can do the same thing with the goats but it will take longer (it only took them about two years to have a flock of resistant sheep with very serious culling) because goats are browsers instead of grazers and so are just not as resistant as the sheep.
The larva of the worm can live for a year in a pasture so rotating for worm control is not all it is cracked up to be. The larva only crawl up the plant in the dew drops to a height of about six to eight inches so having longer grass or browse is a help.

2007 Sheep and Goat Field Day
Booneville, AR hosted by the USDA

Some highlights from talks given by Dr. James Miller and Dr Joan Burke:

Much of the discussion was on experiments done recently on 
parasite control. As was predicted, now the haemonchus contortus (barberpole worm) is now resistant to about all the dewormers available except that Levamisole (Tramisol) still works. They had done studies using two different herbal dewormers that are available commercially, and neither of them worked to deworm the animals. The fecal egg counts were actually higher than in the untreated control animals.

The good news is that two things actually do work. That is giving copper oxide wire pellets (COWP), and feeding or grazing sericea lespedeza.

The COWP are available as a cattle supplement called Coppasure and comes in a 12.5 gram or a 25 gram bolus. The dose for a goat (no matter how large the goat) is .5 gram. A person needs to get some gelatin capsules such as from a pharmacy or a health food store, a "size 1" or a "size 3" is fine. Break open a large bolus and put the COWP in the small ones. They used a plastic deal like one of those straws you get with a milkshake that is sort of a spoon on the end, to fill the tiny capsules. I used a folded piece of paper, holding the whole works over a small box lid to catch pieces that missed the capsules. You can see that you could get 50 doses from one 25 gram cow bolus. They gave the copper capsules every six weeks over the summer. The dose that way is small enough that there is not a danger of copper overdose. The fecal egg counts went from over 10,000 to under 2,000. They also tried a dose of one gram, and the results were the same, so a half gram is adequate. For comparison, they also did Levamisole, and the egg counts were very similar for all three treatments.

A different study involved four treatments. One group grazed tall fescue, one grazed sericea lespedeza. One grazed tall fescue and got COWP. One group grazed sericea lespedeza and got COWP. The ones with the highest egg counts were the first group. The lowest egg counts were the fourth group. But the group grazing lespedeza without the COWP did as well as the group grazing fescue that got COWP.

It has been noted that the lespedeza is also effective as hay or as hay pellets.

For those not familiar with this plant, it is a legume that is a warm weather plant in Arkansas. It grows tall, I have some by the river over my head, though a more usual height is about three feet. This is not the Korean, or Kobe type that is low growing. It can be planted in the spring, the soil needs to be tilled, the seed inoculated, planted and covered a little. It is very drought resistant and not a fussy plant once you get it established, and is perennial. It will go dormant in the winter and come back up about April. If anyone has traveled up highway 65 to Branson in the summer, it is the plant along the highway on both sides. Makes me envious of all that good lespedeza not being used! Cattlemen may call it a weed as cattle do not eat it, but it is one of the goats' very favorites, as well as being great for deer, turkeys, quail, etc. There is a new variety of it, developed at Auburn University, called "AU Grazer", that has a softer stem with more leaf, and cattle will eat it.

Another study involved feeding papaya seed. The fecal egg counts went way down.

Another phenomenon was noticed and that had to do with rainfall. After each rain fecal egg counts went up.

Some other things that can help control worms: 
1. Goats have some natural resistance to worms. By using the FAMACHA system, or checking fecal egg counts, and keeping records, you can select as breeding stock, those animals that have more natural resistance.
2. There is a vaccine for goats that is currently being used in the United Kingdom, that will reduce haemonchus. We need it here!

A participant asked a question about lungworms. If you are like me, this is a topic that has been foggy. Dr. Miller explained that lungworms are fairly rare. They are more often found in young goats as goats develop resistance as they get older. The life cycle is similar to intestinal worms as the manure to pasture to goat is the method of transmission. But instead of expelling eggs, the goat expels larva to the pasture. The larvas are then ingested, go to the digestive system and then migrate to the lungs. He said that it may be difficult to find lungworm by looking at a fecal sample. The good thing is, is that lungworms have NOT become resistant to dewormers and any dewormer that says it kills them, will. He said it may be cheaper to just use the dewormer than trying to get a diagnosis.

Information can be found at www.scsrpc.org

-Debbie Taylor


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Will gladly wait on you Dave- this is our super busy season.
Thanks for your efforts!
L


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

The site that Ellie put up does have some super good info on it on multi species grass pastures and legume pastures...seed sold in 5 pound bags etc.... Vicki


----------



## trueblessings (Mar 10, 2008)

How does one find out if it's against the law to plant in your state?

Thanks
Lynn


----------



## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

At the website that Ellie posted, it listed the states it was illegal in. Just KS and CO, according to that. I went and looked and KS even has "sericea lespedeza disaster areas"!!! I could get federal funding to eliminate it, if I wanted to! But if you googled sericea lespedeza and Alabama, something would come up if it was an issue, I believe.


----------



## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

I emailed Sims Brothers about the price and time of year to plant it. This was their reply.

The AU Grazer is $200.00 per 50# bag. We recommend you plant in the Spring after the threat of frost.
Thanks
Tom Sims
Sims Brothers Inc
1-334-738-2619


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

That would mean brush hogging and then discing up all my beautiful rye grass! There has to be other ways of doing it in the south...I am going to put some in with my, rye, peas, deer mix, bahai, clover...hopping like the bahai the lespedeza will sit all cosy in the soil and come up when the rye starts dieing out. Vicki


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

It will sprout now. The natural seeding cycle of les in the wild is to drop seeds in summer and wait for cooler soil temps and fall rains and then come up and stay small during winter and grow roots all winter and when spring warms up it explodes. This is an invasive weed producing seed from June till October- seeds are very hardy - if you have soil and water it will grow.


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Oh I will be SOOO dissapointed if it takes over my 'pasture'  LOL!!! Vicki


----------



## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

I am interested in getting some of this too. I can plant what we have here, but if this stands up better to grazing, sounds good.


----------



## LMonty (Oct 25, 2007)

I'd try a couple of pounds too if youre selling it by the pound.


----------



## mmueller (Feb 25, 2011)

I'm willing to order 50 lbs. from Sims if I knew that I could sell most of it to others. We're in New Hampshire so Au Grazer may not be perennial up here, but I'd like to try.

If you'd be interested in participating, please let me know how much you'd like -- say from 1 lb up. No idea of the pricing yet because I don't know how much it will cost to get the 50 bag delivered, and I haven't looked into the cost of mailing back out.

Tom Sims wrote me that they think the hard seed is viable for 2-3 years.

Mark


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Welcome Mark.

Did anyone plant this yet?


----------

