# Results of switching to whole grains and free feeding alfalfa pellets



## Junkscouts (Jul 18, 2010)

Hi All,

After reading many posts here suggesting free feeding (or at least supplementing with alfalfa pellets) and using whole grains instead of sweet feed, I switched. I didn't switch both at once so I could see if either change made a difference in milk production and I thought I would share the results.

On May 3rd I started free feeding alfalfa pellets. On the graph I've added a "spike" on that date. Before that I was just feeding good alfalfa hay and I always kept a close eye on their condition and if they looked like they were loosing weight I would give them an extra feeding at mid day. You can see there isn't much of a change from the graph and the average total daily milk from the 3 does before the change was 24.0 lbs and after was 23.9 lbs.

On May 14th I switched from sweet feed (4-way or goat ration) to a mix of whole barley and wheat with a small amount of BOSS mixed in. Again there is a "spike on the graph at that date. There isn't a huge increase, but the average went from 23.9 pounds to 26.2, which is about 9%. 

The only other variable (that I can think of) is the number of milkings per day. I usually milk 3 times a day but when we go to the farmers markets (Sat & Sun) and a day or two before when we are getting ready and baking I don't have time so they only get milked twice a day. Since switching to the whole grain we've been busy and I've actually only milked twice a day much more than normal, so I suspect the increase from the whole grains would have been greater if I had been able to milk more.

One other thing I've notice is I swear they eat less of the whole grain than they did of the sweet feed, like a lot less. Unfortunately I didn't weigh it. I free feed the grain while I milk. They don't gobble the whole grains like they did the sweet feed. Half the time they stand there chewing on it instead of having their head in the bucket.


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## jasonmtapia (Apr 3, 2010)

Interesting


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Of course they eat less of real grain than they do ground up god knows what. And what isn't on your graph is longevity. Less acidosis, which is the precursor to nearly all metabolic disease. Good for you.


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## Junkscouts (Jul 18, 2010)

Thanks Vicki,

It's was mostly your posts as well as post by Lee and Camille that convinced and helped me to switch. You guys rock!


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Glad to hear your production have improved!


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## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

Ummmm....We switched for 8 months a few years back. My goats milked fine - but dried up a little early. And then as they were heavily bred the hypocalcemia started...Boers with ketosis and my first full blown case of milk fever. I personally do NOT recommend switching to the whole grains if you have heavy producers. Thankfully when my Boers began showing signs of trouble we switched the dairy goats back and averted a full blown disaster. We have never had such problems again. The only difference was in the grain - they did especially poorly with the oats. 

I do add rolled barley to my 16% dairy goat pellet and the does love it (it is also inexpensive in this part of the country).


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## Junkscouts (Jul 18, 2010)

Sorry Camille, I didn't mean to miss quite you. I just meant your posts on nutrition, feeding and in general are very helpful. 

Thanks for the warning, I will keep a close eye on them for problems. I am actually going to make a mix of barley with corn and rice bran and/or oils so it won't be straight barley. It's all new to me and I'm still trying to figure out exactly what and how much to add.


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## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

That's okay - I just didn't want other folks to think that I advocate whole oats (primarily) w/ the barley. My little hiccup is nothing compared to the many many people that we have had to help as their does crashed all over the place. No one wants to talk about or admit it - but I just can't sit quietly while people have their beloved goats dying or needing serious and expensive intervention that could be avoided.


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

We had several cases of accidosis last year when feeding a grain heavy in molasses and containing some pellets that I don't know what they were. We've had none since feeding whole grains, mostly barley, and none before that either when feeding pellets such as blue seal, bartlett, and a local cow dairy pellet. My goats are mid-range milkers, milking from just over a gallon a day to one doe who milks 14+ pounds per day. No problems yet but they look a little rough. They've not been clipped yet, but in the past I did not see hair as rough as a few have now. They were bolused late and their mineral was changed to a cheaper cow mineral so that is a factor too.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

And lets not please act like there were many many people, how many? 

The Considine's ran their very heavy milking lines on whole oats, and browse, cut and fed to the does. Harvey here at my farm in my barn, asking me if I was going to start showing again or cut fence, when my girls sold out going to college...discussed their feeding program and the success they got getting off of presacked feeds. I had excellent milkers, with alfalfa pellets and whole grains we never had a case of ketosis again during pregnancy...gosh imagine how good of milkers they would have been if it was as simple as to use presacked by product feeds! Our problems were always with ketosis/milkfever/hypocalcemia, tied to not feeding enough alfalfa, trying to raise goats out of calcium carbonate and sorbate in presacked grains with grass hay, never worked for anything but the mediocre milker. Why most dairies do have such low rolling herd averages, cheap feeding, grass hay and sweet feed can only keep the mediocre doe alive. 

Ketosis in boers was always them being fat, because of feeding grain to boers when they were only kidding out kids and not being the milkers our dairy does were. What does it take to nurse 2 kids for less than 3 months once a year? Certainly not a dairy goat diet.


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

There is no "one size fits all" feeding or management program. I've been in this a long, long time and I've always fed pre-sacked horse feeds with molasses. I never give my goats Alfalfa during pregnancy, nor do I feed my bucks Alfalfa ever. I don't have to deal with Ketosis, Milk Fever or udder edema when they freshen. I tried the dry mix feed and free choice Alfalfa feeding for 2 kidding seasons, and I had nothing but trouble, and lost some adults does during kidding, which rarely happens here. All of them freshened very thin, were slow coming into production, and never did milk like they should have. They looked so bad, that I didn't go out to any shows, nor would I let anyone come here, because of it. I had NEVER purchased a bottle of CMPK until I tried this program....literally went through a case of it! 
Went back to what I have always done, and things went back to normal here. Not trying to stir up a hornets nest, just giving my experience for my herd. Bottom line is....you have to work and adjust until you find out what will work for your animals and your location.


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## tlcnubians (Jan 21, 2011)

Couldn't have said it better myself Janie! I'd add that even within a herd, there are animals that have differing nutritional requirements. Especially in herds made up of more than one dairy breed or dairy and meat goats, people find that keeping everyone in tiptop shape can be quite a challenge. Taking into consideration the different areas of the country with a wide range of differing climactic conditions, and hay and feed costs and availability, it only stands to reason that each producer needs to find what works best in their herd and go with it rather than, for example, someone in Texas trying to emulate the feeding choices used by someone in Wisconsin. Caroline


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

It is really amazing how managements can differ so much and still produce healthy goats.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

This talk makes me wonder if some of the reason some goats do better with one thing and not another while it is the opposite at another farm, is how and what the goats were raised on as kids. Mine do great on all alfalfa hay in winter, pasture and alfalfa in the summer, and a whole grain mix for milking. Bucks get straight alfalfa in winter and pasture-only in summer, with a little grain in winter if their condition warrants it. I have to stop grain feeding in late winter/early spring, or they get pretty fat when the pasture starts coming in.


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

The factor I seldom see mentioned is the quality of available browse/pasture. I fed grass hay, horse feed for years while my goats had lush pasture, and they did really well - had a nice bloom to their coats. When the drought conditions started, my goats looked like crap, and I started having problems (although never milk fever). Now we have dry lots and feed alfalfa and oats, and once again they look great. Without knowing what the goats are harvesting on their own, it is difficult to compare feeding plans. Certainly it is important to provide plenty of calcium, so if your hay and ration do not have it, where are they getting it? Doubtless they are getting it somewhere if they are doing well.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

We only had crashes and metabolic issues when I listened to the 'big kids' telling me my does could produce more if I would feed them a dairy ration in stead of whole grain.
We always fed whole grains with or with out molasses because there were no pelleted rations 30 years ago. You fed horse feed or cattle feed or whole grain. 
The key to success here was we have huge grazing and browsing areas and the grain is a *tiny portion* of their management.
They exercise all day- they eat what they choose seasonally as the pastures change and they have a bit of grain on the milkstand which they are adapted to because they are also eating seed heads out in the meadows as the grasses flower. The real measure of success is their ruminal digestive components. They are slow to adapt... If you have them adapted to sugar and mystery pellets then that is what they do well on. If ...like ours...they eat what our land has to offer with the added enticement of whole grain to get on the milkstand...that is what they do well on.

As said before there is no size fits all !!! 
We all have to do what works.
Lee


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

But y'all have to remember, for new people, finding out what works can be a challenge. Because sometimes we don't know what's NOT working until it's too late.

Just my observations for my milkers this spring....we ran out of alfalfa hay and had to switch to a grass hay so I added a-pellets to the ration. We don't have an ideal feed setup here. We feed fodder and a-pellets in a large trough that is outside, no shelter for it. When it rains, we can't feed it so they get it inside when they come in the barn to milk. I leave them in the barn longer so they eat both their whole grain ration, plus time for the alfalfa pellets. I notice a drop in milk production when we don't feed it (feeding a large bucket twice per day for 10 does, not free choice). My 7#/milking does drop to 5# and my 5#/milking does drop to 4#.

It has been a very wet spring here and most farmers have not had a first cut yet. I am SO looking forward to getting alfalfa hay back into the feed regimen.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Let's ponder this for a second. First lets hope that your presacked feeds do contain grain? Ok maybe not. So your saying a byproduct feed tag with the cheapest protein, fat and fiber allowed to meet the minimums on your tag, is a better feed than real grain? Do you also eat 3 meals a day at McDonalds yourself? We also know how poorly goats do with change, yet each and every time you purchase a sack of processed grain.... it is from a new milling, different by products are used to get to that minimum on the tag, depending upon the commodities market at the time, so from one bag to the next you are switching their feeds. We also know in the winter they use cheaper oils because they will not go rancid as quickly in heat, and move from liquid to powdered molasses, yep even in pellets.

So an unnatural diet is healthier for your goats than a healthy one? 

With the success of thousands on the forum with feeding real grain, alfalfa hay and/or alfalfa pellets....the feeding of less grain and more alfalfa and/or browse...I am glad I don't have a dog in this fight anymore.


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

The horse feed I use, lists the grains used, and the word "by-product" is not on the label. Been using this feed for 20 years very successfully.
Don't intend to "fix" what isn't broken anymore......it was a costly mistake for my herd.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

So you do feed all grains Janie! It's what I fed most of the time, horse feed that was menued, same ingredients all the time on the sack. I don't feed by products either, not to my family, or to the dogs. Vicki


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

KJFarm said:


> I never give my goats Alfalfa during pregnancy, nor do I feed my bucks Alfalfa ever.


Janie, can you expound upon this?

Why do you not give your does alfalfa during pregnancy? What if they are still milking? Or are you talking about during that 2 month or so dry period? And again, why not?

And the bucks, what do you feed them? Grass hay, I assume, but what else? I thought too much phos in the diet can be a cause of urinary calculi, as can too much calcium. No? Or do you provide AC? And if so and you don't grain them, how?


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

Cindy, my does that are still milking and pregnant get a very limited amount of Alfalfa, none after 3 months bred. Dry does do not get any. I was taught the "old school" way as some call it, and it has worked. We have been raising dairy goats for over 50 years, and this management it what I will stick with. I'm not telling anyone that this is the only way, just threw this information out there, because there is "more ways than one to skin a cat", as they say.
My bucks get the same textured horse feed only a 12% mix, Sudan hay, and TechMaster minerals, and pasture.
The does have access to Sudan Hay at all times (round bales).
You can see our animals on our website.....they don't look like they are deprived in any way :biggrin !


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

I have seen your animals in person, Janie, and yes, I would say they are quite healthy, not to mention beautiful!


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

I wouldn't say I do very different Janie. Forages in IN are very different from TX. Bucks and dry does get cheaper mixed hay. I don't introduce the nice alfalfa until late pregnancy. 

In TX the only alfalfa I had was pellets, but the condition of my goats much improved after I moved to IN. I don't think the alfalfa pellets make up for poor hay quality. I've never fed free choice pellets though. 

The thing I notice here is my goats have a bloom to their coats that I don't often see at other farms. Even when they are shaggy at the end of the winter, they have a softness like I've put conditioner on them. Not sure what is doing it, but I sure like it


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Perhaps you are just a more experienced manager now Angie


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

That's a nice thought


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