# Sad morning in our herd :(



## Secondairy (Aug 12, 2008)

At 3:30AM this morning I was awoken by my daughter in a quiet panic that the neighbor was at the door, and her dog got loose and came home with copious amounts of blood on him. She could hear my goats screaming, and she came right over. We both went down to see what happened, and my favorite yearling Whiskey was laying on the outside of the pen, soaking wet, covered in mud, and with a lot of blood on her hindquarters. I did a quick visual, noted a deep laceration on her upper inner thigh, and a few others on her hip, stifle, and neck. The dog managed to miss her tendons by mere fractions of inches, but she wouldn't get up. I called the emergency clinic, and told them to have a vet on call, and we would be there within 45-50 minutes. I was heading up to my neighbors house so that he could carry the goat to my van, as we have had so much rain here in the last few days that I feared that once I got the van down there, that I wouldn't be able to get it back out. While we walked away, the poor dear got herself up and started bawling for us, so I let her come up the hill at her own pace, and we loaded her into the van and headed for the clinic. There was so much fog, that it took us over an hour and a half to get there, and they were waiting for us at the door. I let her walk inside, and had them watch her movements her from the rear. The vet was concerned about her movement, and the fact that she is pregnant (which she will most likely slip since she is not far along, >12 days), and was very worried that she may have tendon and ligament damage. They took a series of X-rays, and could find nothing to show why she was so wobbly. A second series of films showed what the vet called, and I quote "a catastrophic injury" to her left leg and hip at the ball and socket site. Obviously the dog had bitten her with his lower jaw to the left of her escution and his upper jaw at her hips when he pulled her under the fence. The additional injuries were do to him getting her down, and she also had a rope burn like injury to her crown and back of her head, most likely from scraping under the cattle panel. The hip X-rays were very bad, showing the break to her right femur at the ball junction to her hip. The socket of her hip on that side was shattered, and the upper part of her thigh bone is above the hip entirely - I don't know how she walked in such agony, unless the shock of the ordeal was mercifully pain free. I am waiting for the orthopedic surgeon's prognosis and decision of weather to try and repair the leg, or with such a severe break and crushing of the bone end and socket if we are going to elect to amputate.

The dog owner knows she is at fault. She has offered to pay for all vet bills, regardless of cost, as she now fully understands that her dog is bloodthirsty. Two years ago our rabbitry was hit by her dog. He broke the door down and terrorized all of our rabbits. He knocked cages down and ripped into them and ate several rabbits, killed several more outright, and many many more were so traumatized that they just died from fear. Several of my boyfriend's best show rabbits were just plain missing, and we can only assume that he ate them, or that they ran off and were picked off by fox, coyote, or hawks. These were high end show quality Mini Rex rabbits, small at about 4 lbs. each, and could easily been taken out with little to no evidence. I made it clear that I was not going to press charges, and that the dog must either be euthanized, or given away. They really didn't think it was their dog that did it, as he is great with children, babies, and the house cat. I scared him off, saw it was him, and went right over. to prepare for the confrontation. We made a deal, kill him or get rid of him, I didn't care, as long as he was gone. I ate my $3K in damages to rabbits and cages, but didn't incur any vet bills. They gave the dog away, but he kept taking off, and coming back home, so they kept him leashed at all times. I was not happy about it, but let it go. I AM NOT LETTING THIS ONE GO!

She has agreed to pay the vet bills. The vet suggested calling animal control, and having the dog picked up, they said that they would file the complaint for me, and back it up with the medical data. Unfortunately, I am in a different county than my emergency vet, and they cant file for me, so they instructed me to go home and file ASAP. I called our SPCA for the numbers and it turns out we do not have animal control in our county :mad . They said to call the dog warden, and the police for a report. I called the dog warden, and he is on vacation till Monday. Called the Police, and they do not handle domestic animals, except in the case where a human is bitten. They sad they would call the dog warden's boss, and file a complaint for me, and have them call me for more information. I still have not had a call back yet. They also advised to go to the magistrate for information and to see what I need to file. I don't want to press charges, I just want the bills paid for and my goat to be OK. I don't care if she is a tripod. She is my most special bottle baby. We almost lost her a few times to Coccidia as a young kid, and she has always been the small stunty girl. But she is a good girl. you can do anything you want to her, and she just stands and takes it like it was nothing. She took the stitching without drugs, just stood there like the good girl she is. They did sedate her for her X-rays, and once they saw the injury for what it really was.

I need to know though, besides the current vet bills, is there anything else that I should put into the bill agreement? If she can never maintain a pregnancy to term, should the dog owner be responsible for the spay bill? If she can never again breed naturally, should she be responsible for AI fees? What about additional aftercare fees? I do NOT want to sue her, I want to keep things as friendly as possible. I will sue of I in fact need to.

:sigh I am just so sad about all of this, and mad. If the dog was put down the first time, I would not be writing this post today. Has anyone ever had a milker with only one rear leg? How to they overcome their loss? Is there any problems with supporting pregnancy and a heavy udder afterwards? I am glad that he did not kill her, but at the same time, she has been traumatized so severely. I KNOW that I need a LGD, but there are not many around here. Only young puppies that come from show lines, and it is too late in the year to leave a little clueless puppy out all winter with the goats. 20/20 hindsight. I am sorry, I know some of you might yell at me for my lack of a LDG, and I accept the scolding, but I have been looking, just have not found one that would work for us.

Kelly


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

She also needs to pay for the loss of the baby babies and any furture losses of income off babies do to this. and if you have to put the goat down these furture babies etc are still in play plus the worth of the goat.


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2008)

Feel so bad for you Kelly, hope things get better. You must be much nicer then I am, cause I would gladly offer to shoot that darn dog myself...
Barbara


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## Wendy Tinney (Jul 15, 2008)

I'm so sorry! Can't imagine waking up to such trauma. I don't even know where I would start in dealing with the neighbor. Just know if I ever saw it again, she wouldn't ever see it again.

Wendy


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I need to know though, besides the current vet bills, is there anything else that I should put into the bill agreement? If she can never maintain a pregnancy to term, should the dog owner be responsible for the spay bill? If she can never again breed naturally, should she be responsible for AI fees? What about additional aftercare fees? I do NOT want to sue her, I want to keep things as friendly as possible. I will sue of I in fact need to.
........................

Sorry this happened......

With no animal control, call the sherrif, they will know if you have livestock rules. Ours is quite cut and dry. But she is livestock and not a pet. If any of what you have said above is happening, non-milking, non breeding than put her down. Sue for the cost of the animal her lactation and her kids. Here in my county you would get 3 times that amount. 

The livestock laws won't pertain to you if you show up with spay bills and some sappy (sorry) story of how much you love this goat. You will be before men, you have to present yourself as a dairy goat business woman or you will not be taken seriously.

So how differently is she going to contain this dog than she did before? I could care less if my neighbors hate me or love me, their animals and their children do not come onto my property. It's pretty simple, she can't take harm your business, no more than you can go over and shoot her engine of her car so she can't go to work. It's Texas, the person with the biggest gun and biggest dogs win  If you don't have LGD's get one. Vicki


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2008)

So sorry about this, and I have no idea why you are feeling some guilt about not having an LDG yet. This is not your fault in any form or matter.......and actually, you are a kinder neighbor than I would have been...and I'll leave it at that.

Although many folks have LDG's and they do a good job, I've always said that I'm 100% sure that I have complete control of my electric fence, and my 270 cal behind the door.....and I could never be able to say that about any kind of dog that could jump my fence, and go over to my neighbors house and kill or injure something or someone. 

I really don't think that future births can be sued for, (or gotten)....or at least that's what I've seen in a couple decisions before. Who can say that the doe wouldn't die birthing her first kids.
You would come closer to recovering not only any vet care, but travel, future therapy, and in my opinion the cost of what the doe is valued at....(and that would be high end). Your own pain and suffering would come into play also.

I know this is your neighbor, and I'm sure that you want to be a good neighbor too......but their dog that they know long before now has a problem, has caused you loss, and it's time for them to pay for the real cost of keeping that kinda of dog around for so long.

These folks would have to go way beyond making this thing right, or I would be seeing a lawyer before much time passes. I would for sure keep up with any records/bills of this, and be sure that you have a legal report from some manner of law (whoever it is).

Sorry,

WHIM


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

I agree with Vicki 100% on this as you have to be business minded right now not beloved pet minded.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

So sorry Kelly, I am like Barb, no dog makes it on my property without having some repercussion. Where we are still on the outskirts of town I can't really use a gun, so I use a bat. Neighbor was going to sue me for watching me take an aluminuim bat to his dog. Like the sheriff said if its on my property and harassing my goats I can kill it if I want too. No way will I let an animal get away with it. Most stay away from my place. Tammy


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Tammy get a paint gun, this way the animal goes home marked and you can prove that they were there, then call the sheriff. Paint gun balls don't hurt persay, but it is enough of a shock to get the animal to run off. In Texas with Rotties and Pit Bulls believe you me I don't want to be in armed combat with either of them. Luckily we can defend out livestock with real bullets. Even in our county we now have leash laws which further give livestock owners more rights. Vicki


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## Lafingkid (Jul 9, 2008)

I am so sorry you are going through all of this. What a horrible way to wake up. I have no answers for you other than in my Dad's neck of the woods (Idaho) this definitely falls under "shoot, shovel and shut up". I'm praying for your goat and hoping you get the compensation you deserve.

Lisa


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Thanks Vicki for that great idea. The two I've already whacked are Staffordshires. Tammy


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## FRW (Sep 29, 2008)

I had a similar thing happen to me. Two 16 yr olds hunting with bows and arrows decided to take target practice at my Lakeshore Buck(Ace Son).
They were held at gun point by my Uncle while the sheriffs dept came and I was on the way to the vet with the buck. He died after I was at the vet with him for about an hour.He was bleeding out to bad.
The parents called and said they would pay the vet bills etc until they found out the worth of the animal and what the entire bill would be.
I had to file an injunction on them through the court and we had the hearing and the judge ordered them to pay . I had to produce proof of value of the animal etc. I brought a copy of his papers and also had the vet write the ta too numbers etc on the vet records to make sure I had proof that it was this buck who was deceased. 
They refused to pay so the District Attorney has filed an injunction (lien) against any property they own and they will have to pay me first before they are able to sell any personal property that has a title or deed.
Make sure you have it all in writing and let them go to the vet and take claim to the vet bill and make sure they approve any new treatment and the cost with the vet or you are again responsible for any new treatment plan.
Like Vicki said make sure you conduct yourself as a livestock business. You never know what situation that you are going to get into. Take care of yourself first. I would stay on the sheriffs department until that dog is put down. He will be back...
If he is not in a secure pen, secure your does at night.
I am not sure how much land you own but it takes allot of property to satisfy a LGD. I had 2 on about 120 acres and they still would roam and they were spayed. They were raised with the goats and have even killed coyotes etc but they do like to roam at night. I finally chained one in the pen at night to stop the roaming. Not everyone has enough room for a LGD.
I have seen a vet fix a close hip fractured femur on a foal and a large dog, why not a goat?You would have to sling her for about 4 weeks if they are able to put in a plate and screws maybe less.You might talk to the vet about giving her a lutalyse shot to stop the pregnancy because of the calcium it takes out of the body. She will need it for healing. Just a thought...Hope your day is better!


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## shawhee (Jun 28, 2008)

Kelly,

:down I am so sorry. This has got to be tuff. Keep your chin up, and anytime you go to court ask for the full extent of monetary compensation. All they can do is say no and / or reduce it. But if you sit down and make a list of what everything is worth; worth of animal; loss of use etc; loss of kids. Put some numbers to them and ask for it all. I went to court on a horse case and really did not think I would get everything but I put it all on there. I got it ALL plus some additional the judge added. I was shocked. 

Anyway, let us know what happens I would like to know if the vet can repair this.

Shawna


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

4fromgoatilia said:


> The two I've already whacked are Staffordshires.


Tammy, you're one brave lady! I like the distance afforded by a loaded weapon. Paint ball gun is a great idea!

Kelly, you and your precious doe are in our prayers.


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## Ravens Haven (Oct 26, 2007)

So sorry to hear this Kelly. If I were you I would take the advice of Vicki for sure. The same here in my county, I shoot and ask questions later. I lost a herd of three when I first got started almost 6 years ago, so I don't take kind to neighbor's dogs at all.
You and your doe will be in our prayers.


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## Sheryl (Oct 27, 2007)

I feel you pain. I am so sorry. I came home from work one day,and my beautiful german shepherd had gotten out of her pen, ran upto the tip of the hill to the goat pen, and ripped up and in half 11 baby goats. I when I came home she greeted me with blood all over her, when I went to check I found them. I could hear their screams in my head when I saw them although they were dead and I wasn't there. I put her back in her pen, went inside the house, did not even change clothes got the 22 rifle out of the closet when out to the pen and dropped her dead where she stood, wagging tail and all. I knew my husband wouldn't do it. And I knew if she would do that to baby goats, she would do it to a small child so there was no giving her away. I cried for 6 weeks. To this day it still makes me sad. 

I also shot off the leg of a neighbor's dog after it destroyed my show rabbits for the third time. That's when I learned if you shoot them, don't tell, just bury them!

I am so sorry for you. I know it is heart breaking. I hope for the best for you and your doe.

Sheryl


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## Leo (Mar 10, 2008)

<<Hugs>> I'm so sorry you and your doe have to go through this. I understand what you've gone through, it was years ago,and mine didn't make it but her back end was ripped off to the hip bone. You got some good advise. I hope your doe is doing better. 
Megan


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## cindy (Sep 16, 2008)

Dear Kelly,

Sorry to hear what you are going thru. :sniffle People don't realize just how special these goats can be to us. I will not criticize you for not having a LGD. I don't have one either. I tried, but he kept running off with whom ever was jogging on the road and going home with them. I use llamas. Llamas are excellent guardians. I have 2 neutered males. They are very protective of their pasture and goats. They hate coyote's, dogs, and hunters. They don't really care about fox or raccoons, so if those are problems for you, you may want to try something else. My neighbors dog got out (my neighbor is real trouble...raises mean dogs and animal control and the DA won't do anything about her) and was trying to kill my baby and adult goats. One llama herded everyone back to the barn while the other went on the attack and injured the dog. If she hadn't come and dragged her dog over the fence, the llama would have killed it!  My other neighbors watched the whole thing and were just amazed with how well the llama's did! 

I hope everything turns out OK for your doe. I had a doe that had 3 feet. She lost an foot to an injury. She did really well...once she was healed...she hobbled along on her 3 feet, was an excellent mother, and ended up dying of old age.

Cindy


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## lyceum (Oct 29, 2007)

So sorry to hear about your poor baby. Definitely agree that you should be compensated for medical bills, etc. loss of future offspring. I would also get $$ for whatever she is going to need during recovery, post surgery if that is needed. (Pain meds, bandage materials, antibiotics, post op vet bills,etc) Try to get an estimate from your vet on what post op charges would be. Make sure that you get it in writing that the neigbor is going to pay vet bills.

Also, we have a 3 legged 3 year old Lamancha Victory. (Front leg was amputated due to a horrible bread) She was milked for awhile until she was dry after surgery. I am getting ready to breed her for the first time since she lost the leg. I am breeding her to a ND buck for this time. She gets around just fine and has never had a problem. I also have a ND buck with only 3 legs (back leg amputated) who sired kids post surgery. 

Be sure that the vet knows that goats are very sensitive to anesthesia and sedation. Victory actually stopped breathing on the table and it took a good 45 minutes- and hour for her to wake up. The ND had a hard time waking up too. 

I can't believe that they kept the dog after the incident with the rabbits. We have had up to 300 high end Mini Rex too. To lose even one is too many when you are paying $200 and up for the good ones.

Carisa


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## pokyone42 (Oct 26, 2007)

I am SO sorry for your trauma. This is such a needless tragedy. I hope your precious doe will recover. So sad... How is your girl? I cried through this whole thread.. just imagining if it was one of MY sweet goats... or, MY dog, in the case of the German Shepherd........ At least the neighbor seems to be trying to take responsibility for her dog's actions...she admitted it, and came to you... instead of denying it all....... Good luck...


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## Gunnie (May 7, 2008)

Im so sorry your dealing with this. How is she doing?


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## stacy adams (Oct 29, 2007)

Gee Kelly, I'm so sorry you and your doe are having to go through this awful mess. There isn't anything more I can say that hasn't already been said, I just wanted you to know that we're there for you. We would never criticize you for not having an LGD, how could you know? Anyway, just want you to know that you and your doe are in our prayers.
Stacy


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## Secondairy (Aug 12, 2008)

First off I want to thank everyone for their kinds words. The vet called this afternoon and said that Whiskey is doing well - she is still in a lot of pain, so she is being IV'ed painkillers. She is also on anti-inflammatories and antibiotics (Naxcel). The vet was also pleased to report that she gobbled down her grain with great enthusiasm, and was eating them out of house and home with the grass hay. They gave her a catheter so that she could urinate without getting up or dribbling on herself, and her poops are well formed and regular. I asked them to check her worm load, and treat as necessary, as she really is going to need to be in top shape for whichever surgery we elect. I m bringing more grain for her tomorrow, as well as more alfalfa pellets if she wants them. She is drinking well, and other than the fact that she has a terrible injury - the vet said she is doing extremely well. Very alert and perky, and the other vets and staff are really enjoying her excellent personality and friendly nature!

I will hear from her again tomorrow morning, and will keep everyone posted on how she does. I am going to the magistrate tomorrow with the dog owner, and will let everyone know how that goes. The dog is off of the property (next door), and is scheduled for euthanasia tomorrow. I feel bad for my neighbor, but the animal is a bloodthirsty menace, and needs to be disposed of. I am going to see if my neighbor will go with me to the Vet's tomorrow, and I am going to see if I can get the bill transfered into her name. This way of she finks out, or moves and cannot be located by myself, it is a problem for her to deal with, and not me. 

Again, thanks everyone - I greatly appreciate the advise and thoughts at this sad time of need. Hopefully she will continue to maintain well, and with recuperate from her treatment, whatever we finally decide to do.

Kelly


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## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

I'm sorry you are having to go through this. It is very traumatizing. I wouldn't settle for anything less than the monetary compensation mentioned above and I would not settle for anything less than that dog being put to sleep ... one way or the other.


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

I'm sorry your goat was injured. I hope she'll be able to heal. Those people should have had that dog euthanized after it atacked your rabbits. Several years ago, two different neighbors' dogs got together and killed one of my baby goats. I called the sherriff. He told them straight out that I had the right to shoot them if they were on my property. Kathie


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Very glad to hear she is doing better. And that the dog is going down. Tammy


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## Terry (Oct 27, 2007)

I'm sorry that you're having to go through this, but glad that she is doing better.
Terry


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Hope everything works out for you. Glad the doe seems to be improving.


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## Secondairy (Aug 12, 2008)

Went and saw Whiskey today. I was quite surprised to see her up and about and walking, however I didn't like how swelled up her leg was. I asked one of the techs about it but since the Vet was on another emergency call, I left without answers. She did have her catheter out, as she was reported to be getting around well. I saw her pee and poo, and everything seemed normal, just slightly awkward. Whiskey has made friends with one of the techs - she shared her peanut butter crackers with her, and I am sure she now has a friend for the duration of her stay, and a new fixation 

I had some words with the neighbor today - she is a very hard person to explain things to, as she just doesn't get animals. Although I really like this little doe, if the surgeon cannot promise me that she will be able to kid naturally (even one legged), I may have to elect to put the doe down. I cant afford to feed an unproductive animal. She also feels that the aftercare should be my problem, as she is only interested in the final vet bill, however if her dog was dead the first time, i would not have to worry about this whole incident, vet bill, or aftercare and possible therapy. If this doe manages to breed, and retain the pregnancy, but needs a cesarean for the delivery, I don't think that should really be my bill. If the dog didn't eat her, then she would have a normal pelvis, and i woldnt have to think about this unless it was an unforeseen complication - then it would be my problem. The neighbor thinks I am being unreasonable, and she cannot understand that feeding an additional pet is going to be a problem when I already have 'so many' others. Mind you I only have 8 - 1 wether, 2 bucks (one soon to be wethered), 4 dry yearlings, including this one, and a doeling. So I had to explain to her that these are not just pet goats, and that i have a plan for them, and missing one of them can really hurt my future endeavors with them. By putting this doe down, I am down one more potential milker, and it will set me back another year before I have 5 milkers - just barely enough to sustain a young beef calf for our freezer. In this time, I will have to bottle raise another kid, and dump another year's worth of feed into it before I get anything out of her. So I brought up that if she paid the bill at the vet's including euthanasia, and purchase me a new doe of comparable genetics and of roughly the same age, I would be satisfied. She thought I was being very unfair. I also brought up that I wanted proof of euthanasia on the dog, and she has already reneged on that. She gave the dog away to family out of state, and thinks that I should be happy. but I am not. When the dog came and ate my rabbits, I ATE the bill on that one. She gave the dog away, but a few months later he managed to find his way back home...this time to try and kill my goats. I am kind of perturbed, but really don't know what to do. The stupid dog warden did not return my call. I guess tomorrow I will head down to the magistrate and see what they can tell me, but they really weren't that helpful when we were evicting a tenant a few months back, and basically were downright nasty and condescending. We are no longer living in a rural farm county. Most of the farmland has blown out of control in value, and has been sold to developers. I am sure no one wants to really hear complaints from a hobby farmer directed at a 'city slicker'.

Tomorrow the orthopedic surgeon will give me his ideas, and I will take it from there I guess, but I am just so irritated at this point I could scream. I also told her straight out that if I ever saw her dog again she would wish it was put to sleep, as I would kill it with my bare hands. And if that didn't kill it, I would get my gun and start from the bottom up.

Kelly


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Hugs to you, Kelly, and hang in there! Sounds like you're going to need a lawyer... What an ugly neighbor.


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## FRW (Sep 29, 2008)

Start documenting every conversation time and place you are having with her.Starting at the time it happened take pictures of the doe at the vet. Make sure you get good ones of the very swollen area where she is injured.
I took pictures with my cell phone of the goat with the vet working on him and even after he was dead.
Sounds like you might be in court.This is not the relationship you want with a neighbor but the dog is her responsibility.
I am sorry for your loss I have been there and you have to protect yourself. I paid the 50.00 fee small claims court and represented myself .I won and got a ruling for $1900.00. I am still waiting for the money but I will start getting it monthly by his garnished wages in 22 months.
Again sorry for your problems but think of it as a business and take care of business. 
May I ask where you are from?


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## pokyone42 (Oct 26, 2007)

Aww, darn... And here I thought that your neighbor was going to show that she is a decent human being, and do what she should... 
I am sooo sorry......... I hope Whiskey continues to improve for you, and I hope your neighbor learns some decency through all of this...........this must be so frustrating for you...Hang in there, and keep fighting, and give your sweet a doe a hug for me.


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## Secondairy (Aug 12, 2008)

*Re: Sad morning in our herd  - Update!*

I am sorry that I have not been around - things got very hairy here for a while, and I just haven't had the time to sit in front of the computer and post.

Whiskey is home first off! I received a very good phone call late Tuesday night from the orthopedic surgeon. He reviewed the original films and agreed that the break appeared rather severe in the AM when he first looked at her. He watched her movements several times through out the day, and then manipulated her hips, thighs, and hocks, bringing her leg up under her and flexing it out and back. He was unable to feel this terrible damage that the X ray showed, so he took additional films of his own, in the positions that he wanted to see. His decision is that there is no actual break. She has a small bone chip off the top of her hip that is free floating. The ball and socket are fully intact. The hip is intact other than the chip off the top, and she has no compromised inner pelvic diameter. She does have extensive soft tissue damage, and will be lame for a few weeks, but she is bearing more and more weight each day. I picked her up on Thursday late afternoon, and she seemed very happy to see us and willingly helped us get her into the van.

I have come up with an agreement with the dog owner, and she will pay me in monthly installments. She and I are getting together today to go over everything this afternoon, she has a copy of my bill, my contract for payment, and I also included a copy of the scary PA dog law handout (It threatens $50,000 fines, and also says that owners are fully liable for all damages caused by their dogs). We will see the magistrate for notarization, and I have promised not to sue her, providing that the dog never is in her possession again, and as long as she does not fail to make the payments. The bill is reasonable at $1041.00, so the payments each month wont break the bank, even if we decide on 25% per month.

Anyway, no complications yet - stitches come out next week (which I can do myself), she has a clean fecal (less than 10 HC, and less than 15 Coccidia - not bad considering she is our 'poor doer'), and they gave her a BoSe while there. They commented how low her FEC was, and questioned how we have such low numbers. I told her that we use Cydectin pour on orally, in addition to Ivomec injectable orally. She only commented that whatever we are doing IS working, so don't change our routine.

Anyway, we will see how things work out. I really don't want to sue this woman, but I will if she fails to make payment. My neighbor (her land lord) has already threatened her with eviction if the dog comes back, or if she gets another dog. I think she has had it too - we have been neighbors for 23 years, and never had a problem until her new tenant comes along and happens to have a dog.

Thanks for all of the support that you have offered when we needed it! I also appreciate everyone who has taken the time to email us privately and offer wonderful advice! THANK YOU! You really helped us feel better when things were looking to the worst.

Kelly


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## Guest (Nov 22, 2008)

The dog that did this isn't DEAD?

Sara


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

Hi Kelly,
I'm sorry you are going through this. Your story and others about dog attacks have promted me to finally research on LGDs and we are going to look at a pyr. puppy this afternoon. I know lots of people have lots of different ideas on what you should do, but if this were my situation, after all this poor doe has been through and will continue to go through, and considering how much you love her, personally, I would insist on the full replacement value of the doe, not expecting or anticipating Whiskey's return to her full self. I would buy another doe of similar or preferably, better quality, have the full vet bill of Whiskey paid for, and if and when she does fully recover, think about breeding her again. You said you cannot afford to keep an unproductive animal, but yet you have two wethers? What about selling or eating them, and letting Whiskey take their place and become your farm mascot? It seems a shame to consider putting her down after all she's been through, and all the time you've spent on her. If she's unbreedable, she won't require the heavy feeding of a doe in milk. Just my 2 cents worth.
Anita


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## Guest (Nov 22, 2008)

If I were you, I would keep very close documented proof of everything......even have it witnessed by your vet or other professional that can back up your claim. There are gonna be some statute of time limitations with this (the laws). If you don't already have it in hand, you need to have a report of this incident from a legal authority. It needs to be publically recorded, and you need a copy of the report. I really don't care what the local law enforcement says or does.......there are state laws and state authority regarding all of our animals, and "they" are required to assist you with a health/safety situation like you have just been through. You may need to contact your humane society that oversees that area (maybe state level), and see if they can assist you in getting legal reports by putting pressure on your local law enforcement to get you a legal report that will hold up in any court. Most human society's have national representation that can bring the house down when called upon.


I'm glad that your doe is some better, and hope that there is no adverse after effects from this thing. .....but this thing should have never happened to begin with. Unfortunately there is no vaccine against stupidity, only compensation.

WHIM


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## Secondairy (Aug 12, 2008)

> The dog that did this isn't DEAD?
> 
> Sara


No, unfortunately she had a change of heart and gave the dog to family out of state, and I cannot pursue the animal since it is no longer in her possession under our dog laws. I can however go for damages since she admitted owning the dog at the time of the attack, but the animal itself, I would need to have the state deem a 'dangerous dog', and by that, the dog would have to still be in her possession. Our state mandates a $500.00 licensing fee for dangerous dogs, plus liability insurance on the animal. So even then, unless I caught the animal on my property and killed it, she could keep it as long as she pays the fee, and keeps insurance on the dog. I would rather have it gone since those are my options.



> You said you cannot afford to keep an unproductive animal, but yet you have two wethers? What about selling or eating them, and letting Whiskey take their place and become your farm mascot? It seems a shame to consider putting her down after all she's been through, and all the time you've spent on her. If she's unbreedable, she won't require the heavy feeding of a doe in milk. Just my 2 cents worth.
> Anita


The two wethers are kind of a sticky situation. One is still a buck, and will be until spring when I see what he can produce. If I wether him, my other neighbors wants me to keep him (she and her children love him), and have already offered to pay for his upkeep. They would keep him themselves, but they do not ave enough property to do so, and a single goat kept away from others, but still within eyesight and earshot may make him miserable. They said they would cover his hay, grain, and any other expenses, and well, as long as I don't have to put the money out, thats all good. The other wether is a wether. He has been paid for and is waiting delivery in spring to his new home. They also paid enough to feed and maintain him over winter. The buyer is also a friend of mine in the rabbits, and I am planning on going down there anyway to swap some lineage on my Mini Rex, and he is not that much more of a burden to transport along. Her hubby is a military man, and he was called back into duty before he could get the shelter and pen finished.



> Unfortunately there is no vaccine against stupidity, only compensation.
> 
> WHIM


My thoughts exactly! I have been waiting for a statement that really sums this woman up, thank you for putting one to it Whim!

Whiskey is actually doing QUITE well. She is trying to get out of her solitary confinement, but I am hesitant to put her back in with the herd until her stitches come out, and her gait becomes more normal. She walks well, and can get up and down fairly normally, but she is just very stiff when moving faster than that. Also, she was herd queen, and I feel that the others may challenge her for dominance, and I don't want her injured further because she cant get out of the way fast enough, or cant dig in with her hind end when pushing the others around. I have considered the LGD, but from what I understand they are barkers, to alert predators that they are here and they mean business ( WONT be good as I have a development across the street). Also, I don't have enough area penned in yet to keep them satisfied - the goats are in an 80x80 area with browse, and I have another 80x80 that needs to be enclosed in spring, as well as an 80x160 either in summer or fall of next year. Then it will all be rotational after that. I also don't want to be liable if my LDG takes off and ends up on someone else's property doing god knows what. I cant afford to be in the hot seat like this other dog owner now is. I am considering an Alpaca - since they are supposed to be as good of guarders as Llamas, just smaller and more manageable. I also considered a donkey, however the guy up over the mountain form me has 150 of them and i can hear them bray all night long - so would any donkey that I bought, and I don't know how well that racket would go over!

Any other suggestions?

Kelly


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## Kalne (Oct 25, 2007)

I am so glad to read that your doeling is healing! What a horrible and sad ordeal to go through.


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## Theresa (Oct 26, 2007)

Glad to hear that she is doing better!

You really should visit someone who has an LGD. Yes, they bark, but mine do not bark excessively. When they bark, there is something there that should not be and it is their way of letting it know it does not belong and letting you know there is something up. Just think if you had one out there when that dog came. I bet you would have heard the LGD barking and it would be your neighbor who had the injuried animal and vet bills! And mine have been taught not to go through a gate unless invited. In otherwords, if there is a gate open, they are not coming out unless we tell them it is ok or the herd is being moved through that gate. (OK, so the male takes this really to heart almost too well and it takes him a while to move to the next pasture, but it is doable.) Mine were also taught that children can do whatever to them. My daughter goes out and lays on them, sits on them, takes food from them. Neighbor kids run through the pastures with out any worry. And they have no desire to leave the herd, so I don't have to worry about them wandering off. Just a thought, that you might want to consider. (I only have 4 acreas.)
Theresa


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

> The hip is intact other than the chip off the top, and she has no compromised inner pelvic diameter.


Sounds like your girl will be back in production next year. No, I wouldn't turn her out with the others until there are no stitches and the stitched area is healed.

I agree with you on the guard animal. You really don't have the space required for a donkey-you have neighbors to consider. A LGD, still not enough space. Since your animals are so close to the house...like mine, I'd depend on a small caliber rifle with a scope. (If you are not in the city limits) Most city limits have a law against "shots fired". By people that try to follow the law..of course.

I've got 10 1/2 acres (here at the house) and I've never considered a LGD. 1. I don't want another dog to feed. 2. I'd also worry about it getting out and causing problems with the neighbors (beef cattle). 3. It's common knowledge around here...If you like your dog, keep it on your property or it will be shot! New people that move in get a notice that includes the Ark. Livestock Harrasment Laws. Or it's explained to them by some of the older gents with cattle in terms they understand. Usually if a stray dog makes it to my property, it's because the other gents haven't seen it, *yet*. It's called the three S's ~shoot,shovel & shut up.

Sooo glad your doe is going to mend and you got your neighbor "lined out".
Kaye


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

I'm glad your doe is doing better. I've had a couple of does who didn't want to be locked up after C sections, but sometimes that's just how it has to go till they're healed. Our state does supposedly have a law that says a dog has to be destroyed once it's killed livestock, but in some counties such as the one I live in, they don't make the owners do it. The sherriff just says to shoot nuisance dogs ourselves. We don't have enough property to justify a LDG either. Our dogs alert us if there's strange animals in the area and we do have a rifle to use if needed. I also have the goats stay in a yard enclosed in cattle panels at night or if we're not home. The panels are situated low enough that a doe couldn't pull a goat under them. Kathie


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Or think about getting a farm dog. Collie or Ridgeback. For myself it is about having a bigger dog than what will be your predator. We have never had an animal harmed on our property, other than coyotes and other peoples dogs and cats. I live 10 acres from thousands of acres of national forest and a fence line away from 350 acres of cattle pasture, some of which is till just barbed wire. I also live a fence line away from rotties and pit bulls, and everything that comes with those two breeds in East Texas.

Farm dogs patrol the farm, protect the family and the stock. A very different mentality. Vicki


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## Guest (Nov 24, 2008)

""""" A very different mentality. Vicki""""

:rofl Yea.....my perimeter electric fence will give anything (including humans) that comes near it a "mental" thing too, and it only cost me a couple bucks a month to feed. It don't bark, get fleas, need a vet, need a house, or do I ever have to worry about it running away. However though, it does bite. :crazy

WHIM


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## Madfarmer (Nov 18, 2008)

I've ignored this thread for a couple days because the sad stuff is too hard for me to deal with. I just want to suggest that you check carefully what the law entitles you to. I lost some chickens to neighbor's dogs when I was still in Oregon. Back then, it was an open-range state, and livestock owners were entitled to triple damages.

Tom


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