# Milking Devices -- non-electric pumps



## Squires (Jul 23, 2010)

Like many people, I have painful hands. I'm not ready to get an electric machine, but, have been eyeing the various hand-powered pumps on the internet.

So far I have found three --

the Udderly EZ Milker which uses two sizes of teat cup and inflations, at <http://www.avolinofarm.com/>

and two other gadgets which use two sizes of teat cup and no inflation (the theory being that so long as they connect with the udder, no contact with the teat is necessary) --

the Henry Milker <http://www.goatfinder.com/goat_milk_machine.htm>

and the Maddigans Milker <http://www.maggidans.com/milker.htm>

Has anybody tried any of these milkers? Whether you have tried them or not, do their principles seem sound? How much difference does having an inflation in the cup make?

There is a fourth "device" which consists of a 60ml or larger syringe (of the type used to dose a kid with colostrum, perhaps) where you cut off the end and file it smooth, apply it to the teat so it suctions to the udder when you pull back on the syringe plunger -- and supposedly fills with milk really easily. Personally, I like the idea of the vacume-milkers which take milk directly from teat to bottle and supposedly need no filtration.

What do you think? Suggestions, questions, opinions, ideas?

Thanks,
Chris


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## mill-valley (Feb 22, 2008)

I've done the fourth option....homemade syringe...it does work. I used it on a first freshener with super small teats for the first week or so after she freshened.

Problem with that is there is no break in the suction so it's harder on the udder tissue. A regular machine pulsates.


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## Fiberaddict (Jun 4, 2009)

The Maggidan's hurt my hands, and only worked on 1 of our goats. There's NO pulsation, really - so it's a bit harder on the teat than an electric one.

I tried to build a Henry's Milker, but couldn't get it to work either - that's why we finally caved and bought a "real" one.

Good luck!


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

The problem is you need electricty to run a motor for a vacume to work a pulsator. None of the non electrical gagets are good for udder health long term. They started as rigged things we put together years ago to milk out mares, it works good cause you really only milk out a mare to get colostrum to test to see if she in foaling in the next 24 hours...I can see using it on tiny teats until they are grabable with the hand or overfilled teats, but not long term. Vicki


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## Squires (Jul 23, 2010)

Well, I find that the more I use my hands, the better they are at doing things. I probably would not use the gadget except on really bad days when my hands are especially painful or cramped. On good days I would just milk by hand. But I was wondering which of these gadgets was better.

What exactly do the inflations do anyway? Are they gentler on the teat tissue? Because Udderly EZ uses them, and Henry's does not. 

The pump on the Madiggan looks exactly like my drenching gun, and I was wondering how that could help me if I have muscle cramps in my hands, because the drenching gun sure doesn't help! Maybe different people have different types of problems. I have neuropathies and muscle spasms, but no osteoarthritis --- maybe it would be more helpful to someone who has arthritis but no spasming muscles? 

I suspect that different goats and different people will be comfortable with different things. BUT each of these gadgets is just a little different and I suspect may have advantages and disadvantages.

Anybody else out there used these? And What DO inflations do? 

Chris


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## Rose (Oct 26, 2007)

The Udderly EZ insert is not an inflation. It's a silicone liner to keep the milk from going into the vacuum device.

I have the Udderly EZ, and I've made the homemade device with syringe bodies. They all require you to use your hand in a gripping manner repeatedly. Maybe a few times less than hand milking, but *all* that much different.

It is my belief that most folks who have problems with the EZ milker and the other hand devices is that they let the device move too far up on the teat and pull in udder tissue which pinches off the flow.

Right now, I've got one line from my Surge miIker that I attach to my EZ Milker, and the vacuum pump and pulsator work just fine to milk my Mini-Mancha's small teats into the EZ Milker tube and bottle!


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Chris have you tried using any of the bioflex products, Glucosomine, chondroiton, MSM? I couldn't have hand milked without them. Loosing my oldest daughter to college there was no way with the busy schedule my middle child had to have continued to milk by hand that many goats. We only had a part time milking machine, and thankfully because of having it at the farm during my friends dry periods, we were easily able to figure out how to put one together for ourselves...well eaisly isn't maybe the word 

The problem with the hand milkers is that it is like using a vacume cleaner, it sucks, and sucks, never relieving the pressure, we used one very similar to it on the mares, I used my friends on my nubians, it is more of a 'give them a hickey' effect on the teat and it's going to be tuff to not let it ride up on the teat. And the bottles are so small, even for nubian FF you are going to have to empty them several times until one half is even done. But ya gotta do what ya gotta doe at times, I understand that. Vicki


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## Junkscouts (Jul 18, 2010)

I found this site recently: http://www.partsdeptonline.com/maximizing_the_milk_harvest.htm. It's geared towards cows but it does a pretty good job explaining how the milkers work and why you need the pulsation. Here is a little bit from the page:

"Need massage. The problem with early attempts at using vacuum to milk cows was too much blood and body fluid congestion within the teat. The wall of the teat contains arteries and veins that allow blood fluids to collect in large quantities when the teat is exposed to vacuum."

"The massaging action on the end of the teat, created by the closing of the teatcup liner (also known as an inflation), helped the blood to flow up the veins for a more normal circulation."

Also I think you are correct, if your hands hurt from milking they will hurt from using those pumps. I use a hand vacuum pump (working on cars) and my hands seem to get more tired than when I milk. I'm not sure about those hand liquid pumps though.


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## Squires (Jul 23, 2010)

Vicki McGaugh Tx Nubians said:


> Chris have you tried using any of the bioflex products, Glucosomine, chondroiton, MSM? I couldn't have hand milked without them. . . . And the bottles are so small, even for nubian FF you are going to have to empty them several times until one half is even done. But ya gotta do what ya gotta doe at times, I understand that. Vicki


Glucosamine is better than aspirin. When I have time -- and during winters when I have chicken in the freezer, I get my glucosamine from chicken disintergrating in the crock-pot -- all natural.

My problem is nerve damage from a childhood injury causing muscles to get tighter and tighter. I need to stretch and work on limbering up my muscles in my arms from finger-tips to neck. Also get trigger-point therapy and accupuncture (it works for this condition). The other stuff you mentioned is mainly for inflammation, not spasms.

One of the milkers -- I think it is the Madiggan -- mentions letting up on vacume and then starting it up again. That model works directly on drawing the fluid out. Only, I have a drench gun that looks EXACTLY like that, and it hurts my hands. I can't get a good enough look at the Henry milker from their pictures to see what exactly the hand-piece looks like. It seems to have a pressure gauge, too, if I'm not mistaken.

By changing bottles, you are letting up on the vacuume and giving the flesh a rest. I'm still tempted to try one of them. I think a few extra half-gallon bottles might be useful -- plus extra caps.

Chris


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## Fiberaddict (Jun 4, 2009)

The Maggidan's IS a drench gun. It's hard to use - to me. The Henry's milker uses an automotive brake-bleeder (I don't know the actual name; that's just what it is) - we tried to build one ourselves, and couldn't get it to work. 

I have had 5 surgeries on my left arm/wrist due to carpal tunnel. To say that I have a "wonky hand" is an understatement! (My right hand needs it, but I'm not doing it. 5 surgeries with still pain? No, thanks!) After the last surgery (to both the wrist and the nerve that sits at the back of the elbow...not sure *why* the nerve needed re-sectioning, but there ya go) the doc told me that if I had ANY pain - not a little, not a twinge, but ANY - to stop. Don't do whatever it was.

Hand-milking hurt. I couldn't just *stop* - it's just me and my 10-year old as the primary milkers (the husband helps, but he spends some nights at his elderly aunt's, so isn't home every day). So, he bought me a machine. It wasn't cheap - but I am not in pain now. Had I known back in March, when we started this journey, that hand-milking would cause pain, I'd have bought a machine then. :lol


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## Squires (Jul 23, 2010)

OK, this may sound crazy, :crazy but . . . somewhere on the internet someone mentioned that they used their human-type breast pump on their goat in an emergency and it did just fine (I think they even had a picture). :O 

BTW, are human breast-pumps just suction machines, or do they pulsate? :???

Reason I am thinking of this is that I just saw a second-hand human "milk expresser" on Craig's list and wonder if it would be any better than one of these hand-powered devices, or if it could be hooked up to one of these devices to be nearly "hands-free"? dance:

Too crazy? :crazy

or
Like a fox? :rofl

Chris


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

After my daughter used hers with my grandson we used it on two does, a young nubian, since no way would bigger teats fit in it and a miniature lamancha. The problem.... they fill up 4 and 8 ounce bottles. Yes it has a pulsator on it, it does not pull enough suction to empty a doe. When does let down their milk it comes streaming out, so your not really milking it that first minute or two...but once you empty that first bottle it will not continue to milk the teat. Now, we did have a doe with very small teats, and it was much closer to milking her than anyone else, although it did not empty her. Older does, who are so much easier to experiment on, simple filled most of the space in the bottle, with teat  Vicki


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## goat dreams (Aug 3, 2010)

While I know nearly nothing about goats, I know tons about human pumps. After reading Vicki's post I think I can add a bit. Most(maybe all) electric breast pump would work for a doe. I've never never tried to disassemble one to figure out how it works so maybe this feature could be modified to achieve longer cycles. But, then their is the issue of strength. Some pumps have adjustments on that too but since Vicki has experience I'll go with "its not strong enough to empty a doe".

Manual breast pumps I think have greater potential. Certain brands (Medela comes to mind) offer larger horns. They have to be order online usually. When using a manual pump if you have a continuous milk stream you can "hold the cycle open" until the stream starts to die down then you can re-pump. **TMI warning** For me this was the most effective way to express milk. I imagine that being able to have total control over each cycle/pulsation would make this more effective, and also cheaper (YAY- bonus). Of course there is still the issue with strength. 

Also, there is the issue of which pump. I think you would need to go with Medela so you can get larger horns. Medela makes two styles of manual pump. One is a piston style which requires two hands (most people HATE it). The other is a one handed version called the Harmony whcih is very comfortable to use. If you could get the positioning right you may even be able to use two at once. One Harmony cost 20-30 dollars and larger horns/breast shields run 10-20 dollars on ebay (36mm).

The last issue would be the size of the collection equipment available. You can't just pump into any old thing because it has to be a closed system to create the vacuum to have the process work. The Medela system pumps into bottles or bags but like Vicki said they are very small. I'm thinking your best bet would be to invent a way to insert tubing into either the bag or the bottle and put a valve on the end of the tubing and set it up to empty into a bucket. I'm not very mechanically minded and there is the chance that this would make the system too big and unable to create a vacuum.

If I haven't put you off the idea entirely I MAY be able to round one of these up and send it to you for shipping. Of course, you will still need to get larger horns/breast shields.


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## Squires (Jul 23, 2010)

I found the manufacturer (Medela) on-line. 

They have a new PEDAL PUMP model!!! Who would have thought? :woohoo 

The breast shields also come in sizes Small through XXL. That's 21 to 36 mm in size (what sizes are goat teats? Might work with some of my non-dairy type sheep). There is also a special 40ml GLASS shield (not sure if this is barn-safe). I found them through the factory outlet store, and they are still expensive!


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## goat dreams (Aug 3, 2010)

I wouldn't use the glass. I can't imagine ti being barn safe at all. Ebay is usually the cheapest place to get them. No clue what size you should buy because I've never examine goats teats. I've certainly never thought to compare them to human nipples/breasts. If I were a betting woman I'd go with the 36 mm though.


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