# Hawks and Dwarf babies ?



## Bella Star (Oct 27, 2007)

My Dwarf doe kidded with 2 babies, one is smaller " brick size" white with black spots, the other is larger .. I noticed ,saw and hear a hawk cry close by my greenhouse fenced area where the doe and babies are ,these 3 are also with a large pregnant Boer doe , BUT do hawks eat baby goats ?? Wonder if the hawk would drop the kid when it screamed ? 
I do not have a dog in this pen and I have never seen a dog go after a medium size chicken hawk as the hawk usually hangs around the chickens that are not close to the goat pasture. The white baby is the size of a young cottontail bunny rabbit .
What could I do to scare the hawk away ? Do flying a colored flag or balloon work till this kid grows some ?
Thanks,
bella/linda


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

I'm sure a hawk would get anything small enough for them to swoop down and grab. I doubt that the kid screaming would stop it.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

We were worried when Lindsey had her little 5 lb chihuahua. He never did get swooped up. But it doesn't mean it won't/can't happen. It would have to be pretty hungry.
Tam


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## Greylady (Mar 28, 2012)

Had a friend's litle chiweenie get snatched up which is why my little poodle doesn't go out without us, she is rabbit sized. Friend had let her out one time and she was hiding and came scrambling into the house. She thought the other dog scared the pup. Next time it was out she heard a yelp and never saw her again. We have a hawk hanging around here now. We also have woods around us.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I always worried about my miniature lamanchas, so kept them in a hoop house without a yard for awhile. We don't let the pups out either. But in the woods you have hawks and owls and you can watch them carrying wild rabbits and squirells. Vicki


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## Qadosh Adamah Lamanchas (Nov 2, 2012)

LGD's are highly effective against hawks, most of the time.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Sorry but my Ridgebacks can't fly  A hawk or owl is down and back up with a rabbit faster than you can clink. I love my dogs, couldn't have goats without them, but in the woods, you have to be careful of hawks and owls until the kids have some size to them.


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## Qadosh Adamah Lamanchas (Nov 2, 2012)

Bahahaha! It'd be quite the sight, Vicki! Anyhow, I just meant that I've frequently had circling hawks above my yards where the baby goats are, and my GP's go nuts with barking and the hawks never descend.


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## punchiepal (Aug 4, 2010)

On an email group I was on, there was a gal with ND that had hawks take a few babies. So, unfortunately, it is possible. 
She ended up making a fenced topped enclosure for the babies.


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## Horsehair Braider (Mar 11, 2011)

This will sound weird but if you keep your kids in very small pens the hawks can't get them. They need enough wing room to swoop in and out... and that is just not going to happen when you have 6' high fences, 8' or less apart. If your fences are low, and there is a lot of room in the pen... well, then it is possible for a hawk to swoop in and out. 

It is for this reason I have never once lost a chicken to a hawk. We certainly have them. But my fences are very high, and the pens are small enough they do not have the room to get in and out. If you watch them out on the prairie as they fly and catch prey, they don't just drop in and out.... they need a "runway" so to speak.


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## H Diamond Farms (Jun 3, 2011)

I may get in trouble, but are you in an area that you can take a little target practice? Lead poisoning is a pretty powerful deterrent.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Gosh, they are beautiful animals. And here, another will just take it's place. I just keep mine inside for awhile. The minis could be 2 pounds at birth, so they stayed inside longer. Day trips to play in the sun with me or the kids around. Vicki


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

RAPTORS AND THE LAW

by Manny Medina
Resident Agent In Charge
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
Derby, KS
316/788-4474

The Protection of Raptors
The federal protection of migratory birds has a long history in the U.S. dating back to 1916 when a treaty was signed between the United States and Great Britain, on behalf of Canada, for the protection of most migratory birds. This treaty resulted in the enactment of the Migratory Bird Treaty Act (MBTA) in 1918, which is the basic law in effect today. Although raptors such as hawks and owls were not protected by the original Act, they were later included as an amendment in 1972. The bald eagle has been protected since the enactment of the Eagle Act in 1940 and the golden eagle, also under the Eagle Act, since 1962. State laws and regulations today likewise protect all migratory birds.

The precise language in the MBTA states:
"Unless and except as permitted by regulations made as hereinafter provided, it shall be unlawful at any time, by any means or in any manner, to pursue, hunt, take, capture, kill, attempt to take, capture, or kill, possess, offer for sale, sell, offer to barter, barter, offer to purchase, purchase, deliver for shipment, ship, export, import, cause to be shipped, exported, or imported, deliver for transportation, transport or cause to be transported, carry or cause to be carried, or receive for shipment, transportation, carriage, or export, any migratory bird, any part, nest, or egg of any such bird, or any product, whether or not manufactured, which consists, or is composed in whole or in part, of any such bird or any part, nest or egg."

As you can see from the above stated legal language, migratory birds are highly regulated. While some, such as waterfowl, can be legally hunted and possessed, there is no such provision for raptors. *Eagles, ospreys, hawks, falcons, kites, owls, vultures and all other native North American birds of prey are strictly protected*, to include a prohibition against the taking or possession of their parts such as feathers or talons. The only exceptions generally allowed for individuals to these prohibitions require permits from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Educational and scientific institutions are exempted from most permit requirements.

Penalties for violations of the MBTA can go up to $15,000 and 6 months imprisonment for common violations. The sale or barter of migratory birds is a felony with penalties up to $500,000 and 2 years imprisonment. Some raptors, such as the bald eagle, are also protected under the Endangered Species Act, and both the bald and golden eagles are also protected under the Eagle Act.

Questions concerning the protection of raptors should be directed to a local state Conservation Officer or the nearest office of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

Raptor's Roost
Text: Bob Gress and Vanessa Avara
Web Design: Jim Mason


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

This worries me too...lots of red tails and other hawks around. I also have a pen that I baby-proofed with some pasture, but I decided I didn't want to put (presumably) raccoons or maybe skunks, even after putting up an electric net fence around the perimeter! I'm guessing a ND baby would be small enough for a raccoon or skunk to take. The little guys really do need good protection.


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## PrairieTrail45 (Nov 28, 2011)

What really worries me is there are several bald eagles that winter here. The man that takes care of the cattle ranch that is all around me has said that he has had bald eagles kill a newborn calf. He said they just rip it to shreds before it gets a chance to stand up. we just recently saw six of them harassing a cow that had a calf. The calf was a few days old so plenty able to run away but they kept circling around and she was trying to run them off.

A bald eagle could swoop up several kids if they were all in a bunch, so I'm sure a hawk could get one. They have killed some of our biggest chickens before.


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

We've had buzzards swoop down after kids, but the guard dogs thwarted their efforts. We had a newborn calf attacked by buzzards, they ate his eyeballs, split his tongue and ate out his rectum before he could get up. He bled to death before we could help him. The buzzards are relentless here, they will show up in large numbers when a calf is born. The poor cows have to protect their calves and also themselves when they lay down to pass placentas.
Our Kangal dog killed a huge, solid white owl with a 5 foot wing span, don't know if the owl got too close to the ground or if the dog leaped high enough to get it as it swooped down. It was probably going to get one of the guineas. We have lots of hawks here also, have seen them catch squirrels and try to get the chickens.
The LGD's hate vultures of any kind........they are worth their weight in gold protecting the animals.


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## Bella Star (Oct 27, 2007)

I have lost 13 guineas and at least 5 chickens to night-early morning hunters .... I had a Eagle nest at the back by the water last year,I have chicken hawks and owls .... Nobody around here would do anything if they were shot as shots go off often. Sofar my 3 LGD have done their job and I dont let the babies out till about 1pm. and they are with mama Dwarf goat and the other Boer doe, something could swope down tho and get a kid. We have a pug and cat and nothing has tried getting them and the pug is always running around. Them buzzards fly in packs tho and they are hunting for cow placentas or goats. I will just keep them inside for awhile,I can hear a goat banging around in the greenhouse tho tonight over the baby monitor :/
bella/linda


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