# Need help, retained placenta or possible dead kid in there



## Guest (Jun 9, 2008)

HI All
I had a doe kid last night at 5 pm, it has now been 24 hours, first freshener of course, two live kids, doing well.. She passed a complete placenta a couple of hours later as normal.. she still has a piece of something hanging from her, it is starting to smell bad, I tried gently to tug out, but I believe her cervix is closed now.. 
She is not running a temp
She is not eating much
Has a little milk, not much
She is straining a little, trying to pass something
She does not act as though she feels like herself, but she just kidded,
She has been given, Bo_Se, vitamin B, wormed, probios
I did not go in last night, did a belly bump and could not feel anything else, she is a Nigerian and very small, I don't think I can get my hand in there.. 
What can I do to help her, should I give her Oxy, or Lute or both..
I do not want to lose this doe, 
If I lute her and get her cervix open again, should i do a uterine flush with antibiotics..??
Any help appreciated.. Vet said just Oxy, but it has been more than five to six hours.. Don't you just know it, I have never dealt with this one before.. Lucky me.. 
Barbara


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

depends on if there is another kid in there. if you think there is a possibility then lute and oxy 
but don't take my word for it wait for Kaye or Vicki


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## stacy adams (Oct 29, 2007)

:yeahthat Honestly Barb, If you think there's a stuck kid in there, and you think she's too small for your hands, well then, I'd be finding me someone who had smaller hands.. really.. if she has a retained kid and it's presenting with it's back to the cervix or the head/neck is turned and it's before the cervix, you are going to NEED to get in there and rearrange it.. it will not come out on it's own. As for the oxy/lute I would do what Sondra said and get a hold of Vicki or Kaye.. we'll be prayin for ya!!


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

So your hands are bigger than the kids that came out  I don't think so. Although it's rare for a cervic to close down around a whole kid, it could happen, and it's why I preach doing pelvics right after you deliever what you think is the last kid or last placenta. I search around before the placentas.

Either way everything is pointing to another placenta or perhaps a kid. And one kid could have been in one horn, the other in the other with their own placentas. Or she has a rip on her cervic which you should be able to feel. The rip goes in and causes her to push it out. Banamine will help with this. If she isn't bleeding the rip is no biggy and will quickly heal.

Picking up just a few cc of oxytocin from the vet for this is of course hindsite, it should be part of everyones tool chest before kidding starts. But yes oxytocin, the cervic is not closed as in giving oxytocin before a doe has kidded, closed.

1/4cc IM and banamine....start manipulating that cervic back open.... this has nothing to do with size of the doe, it's about what you want the oxytocin to do, then 1/2 cc in 2 more hours, sit in the pen and ring your hand around and around inside the doe getting that cervic open...just closed and likely not all the way closed it should open easily. The contractions should make the placenta part eaisly detatch. With even just your hand in and pressing up against you hand from outside the doe, like pulling her towards you hand you should easily feel a hard mass that could be a kid or feel the liver feeling of another placenta. You can give oxytocin every 2 hours for awhile with no problems, of course the doe is very uncomfortable.

I would think you would already have fever if this was anything bad.

Also anything hanging like this is worse for your nose than the doe if she is acting normal...now this whole not milking thing especially if she should have milk in that udder tends to make you automatcially think uterine infection, it's the number one side.

And yes the last act is a uterine flush. Tetracycline, and the valuableness  of the doe Naxcel or? 

I am fairly certain we put in goatkeeping 101 info on infusing after this is all over by Kaye, although the getting that doe bred by Sue Reith also has it, and continue with the 1/4 cc of oxytocin until her cervic is shut after you have gone in and seen what is what. The contractions will help her clean.

Antibiotics and keep up the banamine. Cleanliness can't be stressed enough and a feed sack freshly opened up under the doe, clean the vulva, then another clean sack.

I hope you only found placenta piece, or better yet just a rip in the cervic upon your first exam...and dont' let a tight vagina fool you into not proceeding it just had those kids come out of it remember?

In a small goat your only other option is ultrasound which is super iffy...or waiting and watching...

First of course go bear hug her uterus from behind, bear hugging in front of her udder, really pulling up, she should be VERY uncomfortable when you do this, lots of milking 1/4 cc of oxytocin, then see if you can pull this placenta...not yank. OK that is all I can think of. Vicki


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## Guest (Jun 9, 2008)

Thanks so very much, I have the oxy now, hubby got it from vet.. gave her some and some banamine.. I am going to go in the open her up and bear hug.. Let you all know tomorrow.. 
thanks..
Barbara


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## Guest (Jun 9, 2008)

Thinking of you. Praying for the best outcome.

Whim


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## Legend Hills (May 29, 2008)

Hoping all goes well. Keep us posted. 

Kim


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## Belle (Oct 26, 2007)

Best wishes that everything goes well!


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

Definately give the lute. 1cc IM. if this is a ND-2cc IM if she's a standard. It will open the cervix. Which you're going to need, be it uterine infection or retained kid/placenta. It should be opening within 12 hrs. Also the oxytocin. If it's none of the above...it won't hurt her. But keep her away from the bucks.
Kaye


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## Nancy (Oct 25, 2007)

Hope everything goes ok.


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## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

Hope all goes well.


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## Patty13637 (Oct 26, 2007)

Hoping all went well.

Patty


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## Terry (Oct 27, 2007)

Hoping all is well.
Terry


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## Nancy (Oct 25, 2007)

Any news yet?


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2008)

Well, I think all is going good, I luted her, oyxied her and bear hugged alot... Got my hand in there and got her cervix open.. There is no kid, but pieces of placenta, which I cleaned out.. I then flushed her with antibiotics and oh the nasty stuff that came out.. flushed her alot.. 
She also is on banamine.. and doing good today, eating, and feeling better.. 
Thanks, Vicki, Kaye and Sonda,,, this will teach me to keep oxy on hand.. first time for me.. 
Barbara


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

Very good news.
Kaye


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2008)

Outstanding ! You did a good job. I was concerned about getting back in there......We know all to well how small these ND's are don't we.
I would keep up with the flushing at least twice a day for the next 3 or 4 days.....maybe longer. Think the vet had me go 5 days on one down here last year.

Whim


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2008)

whimmididdle said:


> I would keep up with the flushing at least twice a day for the next 3 or 4 days.....maybe longer. Think the vet had me go 5 days on one down here last year.
> Whim


I doubt the doe's cervix will be open that long. Even if it was I wouldn't want to flush that often as the antibiotics can really irritate the cervix.

I would think that when you flushed that often Whim you were just flushing in the vaginal tract rather than into an open cervix.

Glad to hear you had a good outcome Barb. Watch the doe for signs of an infection - fever, no milk, smelly discharge, etc.

Sara


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2008)

I have heard that antibiotics can irritate her, I will pass on flushing her every day.. Thanks Sara, I am taking her temp twice a day and watching her closely.. She is still draining some nasty stuff, which I wash off, so I can tell when it stops or how much If I am lucky.. She is perky now and feeding her kids good with more milk.. 
Hopefully I caught everything on time, I will have oxy next year here and ready to go... 
Barb


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## stacy adams (Oct 29, 2007)

Sounds like things are going good! yippie


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

OH that sounds great!! Good job Barb.
I agree on the flushing just do it once and do it right the first time


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## GypsyRose (Jun 4, 2008)

Ok...here I go! Gonna show my newbieness?? to goats. Question: This just turned out to be a placental retention correct? Had this not been found and left to fester so to speak (hypothetically) the doe would have had a very serious infection and possibly died. When this happens in cats and dogs it is called pyometra. Is it also the same in goats? In cats and dogs they are spayed to remove the infection then put on high doses of antibiotics...is such a thing done with does? 

I find everything that I am reading/learning fascinating! I love this forum, you guys are the best!


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2008)

GypsyRose said:


> Ok...here I go! Gonna show my newbieness?? to goats. Question: This just turned out to be a placental retention correct? Had this not been found and left to fester so to speak (hypothetically) the doe would have had a very serious infection and possibly died. When this happens in cats and dogs it is called pyometra. Is it also the same in goats? In cats and dogs they are spayed to remove the infection then put on high doses of antibiotics...is such a thing done with does?


Goats usually don't die from a retained placenta. It's not like in cows or even in small animals. They can however, get a serious infection that if not dealt with can cause serious breeding problems in the future.

No, spaying would not even be a consideration. 

Sara


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## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

Great news. Glad everything is ok


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## Legend Hills (May 29, 2008)

YEAH! I am really glad that everything looks better now. Good Job!


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

Tammi,
Goats will show, those that know what to look for, a uterine infection MUCH faster than dogs. And like Sara said...it's "generally" not as life threatening as in dogs. It is however, in goats, the end of reproduction. The very slightest UI can cause a doe to not settle. Reason we look for those tell tale signs asap after kidding. It's much easier to cure a UI at the start than to let it "fester" and scar the uterine wall.

Spaying is out of the question with most of us. Then you have a "pet"...same as a wether. How to put this tactfully???...oh,what the heck~ a spayed doe is a constant drain on the pocketbook. No milk production, no kids to get some of your money back. Does are kept for their reproduction and milking ability.

Clear as mud??
Kaye


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## Belle (Oct 26, 2007)

Glad to hear that she is doing better!


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## Nancy (Oct 25, 2007)

Glad everything worked out.


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## Legend Hills (May 29, 2008)

Kaye... You make a very good point. Sad but true.


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## Terry (Oct 27, 2007)

Glad all went well.


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## GypsyRose (Jun 4, 2008)

Kaye,

That is what I figured about does, that is why I was asking. I'm trying to learn as much as my brain will allow and find it all fascinating! Thanks for answering my stupid questions...LOL....I'm sure I'm gonna bug y'all with em, as much as I bug Vicki!


Tammi


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2008)

Still all going well, as long as she takes this next fall and gets pg.. If not, then she goes for pet or meat..
Barbara


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

Before you "can" her!! If she doesn't take on the 1st or 2nd heat...please get back to us and we'll try a different approach. I settled 3 last year with UI...only 1 was mine from a botched AI...won't go in to that...just surfice it to say DH ISN'T breeding AI does this year! :mad

Just keep in the back of your mind or on paper that she had a difficult kidding and needs to watch closely during breeding season. No pen breeding...you need dates.
Kaye


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## leslieh (Oct 25, 2007)

So glad all is well.

Leslie


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2008)

Thanks Kaye, I will do that, I always have dates, I never , never pen breed.. I have one this last year with assisted kidding, I was all the way in and she did not get pg, so maybe you can help me with both.. of them.. the doe that did not take this last year is one of my best milkers and still milking.. I never stopped milking her because she did not take.. I call her milking mamma...
Barbara


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## pokyone42 (Oct 26, 2007)

sounds like she is okay! Glad to hear it!


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## Good Goats (Oct 26, 2007)

So glad everything is going well, Barb! Good job!



GypsyRose said:


> When this happens in cats and dogs it is called pyometra. Is it also the same in goats? In cats and dogs they are spayed to remove the infection then put on high doses of antibiotics...is such a thing done with does?


I think it's different than in dogs. Pyo is different than a retained placenta in a goat, but sort of I guess the same concept. Kaye and Sara explained it well, so I won't bother .


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