# Clicky knee joints (cae negative) and a feed container question.



## squeak (Jun 21, 2012)

Hi everyone!
I hope the weather is cooling in your part of the world! It sounded horrendous there for a while... here we have had a few frosts and my old ladies are wearing jackets! Anyhow, to business...
My 2 questions for today are about clicky (as in 'click click', audible noises) knee joints and a 'double-tuf mini feeder'. 
1. Some, not all, of my goats (a mix of ages, cae negative, not necessarily milking) sometimes have an audible clicking noise when they walk, coming from the knee. Any ideas? I feed seaweed meal ad lib, and have done for about 6 months, and a product called nutrimol (http://www.multicrop.com.au/product-pdf/Nutrimol_MSDS.pdf) (which I'm still sussing out - not sure on the proportions as I had copper colouring appear on the white of the hocks and tailheads - perhaps I overdid it?... am open to advice about that too ). I've been told that the clicking can happen in some goats and not to worry about it, but I'm wondering if there is a better explanation.
2. I was looking into buying some of those 6 qt 'double-tuf mini feeders' for feeding grain/lucerne. Does anyone who has full size goats have any experience with these feeders? Too small? Just right?
I also wanted to say I am learning heaps from this site! It's awesome!!
Thank-you,
Helen.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Don't know about the feeders. Usually copper coloring (is it on black goats?), is because of a deficiency in copper. Just looked up your nutrimol, and calculated it to be 750 ppm, which shouldn't be too much, and probably isn't enough. Do you guys have copasure, the copper bolus there? You could try using those. I wouldn't think you would need to feed seaweed with the nutrimol, as it sounds like it has some in it already.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Usually clicking is from poor conformation, usually over at the knee. Can you pinpoint when goats are making the sounds and are they related? Do they have strong forlegs, clean about the knee? Vicki


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## squeak (Jun 21, 2012)

Thanks for your replies Nancy and Vicki  The goats that own me are toggenburgs, and there doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason why their knees might click - there are 2 consistent clickers though, not related but rather large (one is a whether, one is a milking doe who is large ((in type, not fat)) so I shall study their form, thank-you!! Interesting about the copper - I was worried that the nutrimol wasn't balanced enough and I had given them too much copper as I was advised to give them a double dose (2ml instead of 1ml). I will ask my vet about copper bolus, one breeder I have already spoken to about them was unsure. She uses them on her cows and thought that you could end up giving goats too much copper! Helen.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

You have to open the cow capsules and weigh out the copper into human capsules for the goats.


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## squeak (Jun 21, 2012)

Ahhh, so you can do a tailor made copper dose based on the weight of the goat, and by putting the copper into small capsules you don't have to ask them to swallow a small truck! Nice!! Best look in the 101 archives before I ask my next question!!


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## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

Some just make the clicking sound - for no obvious reason. I have had a few do it and they had no structural problems and lived to a ripe old age.


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## AlaynaMay (May 12, 2012)

About the copper... I've never used a bolus, but have heard that they are not as effective as they should be. Also, I've given goats pills before, and it is tough! I supplement my goats diet here in Central FL with about 1/2 tps. to 1 tsp. daily of copper sulphate. According to Pat Coleby, you can't really overdose with copper (sulphate form) as long as you feed ample dolomite. I just add it to their feed. Just don't mix copper and dolomite unless it stays dry, otherwise the dolomite neutralizes the copper.
Hope this is helpful!
Alayna


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Those who have used copper oxide particles as a bolus can attest that are very effective. And it is not difficult. Not even as difficult as trimming hooves or giving vaccines.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

I am not sure why some people say giving pills to goats is difficult. Are you trying to shove it down their throats with your fingers? Get a sheep balling gun, and it is easy peasy.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

It is like most things, disbudding, feet trimming, shaving, pulling blood, putting in a CIDR....once you bolus one time you will wonder why some make such a huge deal out of it. It's management we learn or pay the big bucks to vets to do it for us. And I don't have big bucks


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Oh, I bet you have big bucks, just not big buck$.  Just teasing.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)




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