# Ideas for milking a difficult goat?



## islandhedgewitch (May 27, 2012)

Hi,

As you can tell, I'm new here. My situation is that my 2YO Saanen-Nubian cross doe is giving me a huge amount of grief with milking and I'm running out of ideas of what to do with her (other than send her to the sausage maker). She had her kids on April 24th and since then I've had 1 litre of drinkable milk. She did get mastitis a couple weeks ago but she's been treated for that and has recovered. Even before the mastitis I was having a difficult time milking her. She kicks horribly. I've tried holding her leg, milking from behind, from beside, the other side. If I hold one leg, she kicks with the other one. I have to tie both of her legs to the milking stand if I want to milk her at all and even then she thrashes around quite a bit or tries to lie down. This morning she managed to get one of her legs out of the ropes and kicked the milk bucket over once again. Lately she's even started getting difficult outside of milking, refusing to go in the barn at night until I drag her by her collar.

When it comes to milking here's my procedure: She only gets her dairy ration in the milk stand. At night the kids get their last nurse and then I milk her off and the kids get put away. In the morning (12 hours later) she gets back in the milk stand and gets her dairy ration. The only way she gets her ration is while in the milk stand. The kids don't get let out until I'm done. I talk calmly to her, I try singing (although I'm not very good at it), I refrain from getting angry no matter how difficult she's being. Yet still she kicks and stomps and just generally is obnoxious.

I used to work at a health retreat centre where they had a dairy cow and milking was one of my jobs, so I do have experience with milking. I've talked to the lady I got her from, a couple friends who used to raise show milkers, a vet student I know who raises show goats, and a couple other homesteader friends. From what I've told them, they can't really find any fault with how I'm milking her. The only suggestion I've had that I haven't tried yet is one of my homesteader friends told me to spank her. Like every time she tries to kick whack her on the butt. She also suggested taking her food away whenever she kicks and not giving her any more until the next day, yelling at her, and dumping the milk on her head whenever she sticks her foot in it and wrecks it. Which, well that's the first time I've heard anything like that, and it's really not my style so I'm somewhat hesitant to try it. At the same time, I've been trying to milk this goat for over a month now and she's getting worse not better. And if we don't get some drinkable milk out of her soon I'm pretty sure the sausage maker is where she'll be going. 

Is it possible that I just have a lousy goat? Her sister turned out to be a freemartin - she spent two months with a buck and nothing happened and when I mentioned it to the vet while he was here for the mastitis, he checked her out and said that her vulva is way too small for anything to go in or come out of and that it doesn't go anywhere anyway. So, I was expecting to be getting milk from 2 goats and right now I'm getting nothing. 

So, ideas anyone? Is it worth trying to reform her? Is there anything else I can try, and if so, for how long? 

Thanks,


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Where are you from and what is your real name, Hedgewitch? I'm guessing you're from the UK or at least the EU somewhere based on your spelling. It's always helpful on the forum to know where people are from so that better guidance can be given. Although in your OP, this is not the case.

I would say, just keep trying. I can't imagine how dumping the milk over her head will help, but I do have a slightly difficult goat, FF, who I have to stay with her when she is milked (machine). It has helped me to smack her on the thigh and yell with a stern "NO!" when she lifts a leg. She settles down after that. 

I make sure I get all my yearlings on the stand and start feeling their "udders", lower belly, thighs, etc. so that they get used to it when it's time to milk. I believe it has really helped them adjust to milking.

Is she a first freshener or has she freshened before? 

The sister that was a freemartin........full sister or half sister? Was there a buckling born with these sisters? I'm curious as I have a doeling with a very small vulva, but she was twins with a sister.


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## islandhedgewitch (May 27, 2012)

Hi,

My name is Alice and I added my location info in my signature, I put it in my profile but it's not displaying. I'm sure I'll figure out why and fix that soon. I'm in Northeast PEI, Canada. With my goat, this is her first kidding. I got her last May when she was about 1 YO. Her sister and her share the same father but not the same mother but their mothers were sisters - I think they had the same mother and father. I don't know about the freemartin, I asked the woman I got them from but she doesn't remember if my goat had a male twin. Definitely they weren't triplets. She's also always been rather aggressive, she'll just suddenly go nuts and start galloping all over the yard and start rearing and headbutting. She does this a lot with her sister. I had thought that they were just playing, but it's always been the freemartin that starts the headbutting. And when they got put in with the buck the first thing she did was start trying to beat him up. He was a young buck so his owner thought they were just being aggressive because he was young. Now that I know what's up with her, her behaviour makes a bit more sense. She's just a weird goat, she spontaneously lactates too. One udder fills with milk every so often, then it goes down again, then it comes back. Never enough to make it worth milking her, but it's there.

Thanks for the suggestions for my other goat. I guess I'll just have to keep trying with her, though my husband says she's gonna be sausage if we don't get some milk soon :sigh


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

I had a late Nubian who was a horror to milk. She would kick, lay down, jump, bite, everything to get out of being milked. What I did was:

Only grain her on the milk stand, and only when she was being good. If she acted up I took it away and made her stand there for a few minutes and I would try again. When she was good, I have her a treat, which she only got when she was on the milk stand and behaving.

A couple of times I had to put her rear leg over my shoulder with her hoof tucked under my arm pit to hold still while I milked her. I would giove her a slap and a sharp "NO" when she acted up. But, the treat was what really seemed to help. 

Right up until the end (I lost her in a fire) she would every so often act up, but once she didn't get a treat, she would straighten up.


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

I had two does when I first started with goats that were difficult. The spank and "NO" worked great with one. Not so great with the other--it made her worse. Afraid. She was a pretty timid goat to begin with. I finally figured out that she kicked when the back of my hand touched the inside of her leg. :/ Not so easy to not do with her udder. I just kept it in mind to try to not touch the inside of her leg and if I did and she started to kick, I'd lean my shoulder into her side and it would throw her off balance and she'd forget about the leg touch. LOL She never got totally better, but got to the point where she would only flinch a bit if I happened to touch her leg.


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## todog (Dec 10, 2011)

I have a first freshener that wasn't any problem untill I had an emergency and my husband had to milk 3 nights in a row. She kicked the daylighs out of him. He just put her away the last two milks. When I took over she kept kicking so I took an old choke chain, screwed it to her milk stand and hooked a small nylon dog collar to the chain. I just put the collar around one leg and if she trys to kick it stops her from doin any damage. The first week was a battle of wills but I won the battle. She still trys to kick and I will smack her hip and tell her no. Don't give up if you like this girl but sounds like you got two crazy goats. Not sure I would be so patient. Oh and I machine milk now, seems to make a difference too.


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## nightskyfarm (Sep 7, 2009)

I am sorry to hear that you have such a problem child. Hand milking can be more stressful than by machine and I do milk using both methods. For the future, bring your bred doelings into the milking area and onto the stand for their grain twice a day well before kidding time. Touch them all over with both hands and a brush. Trim feet on the stand, clip coats on the stand, but never give shots or cause pain while on the stand. With disruptive goats, I hobble both back feet tight to the milk stand legs one tied to each, not to cause discomfort, but to secure those flying feet. If tight enough they cannot lie down, they can try to go down on their front knees and depending on how your stand is constructed, that can be prevented as well. Use a firm voice like training a horse or cow or even a human and say NO each time she tenses to try to move. Well hobbled she can't move much. As she stands quieter and calmer loosen the hobbles and still firmly correct her with NO and even tightening the hobbles. Eventually, it will work through the both of you. 

As far as not wanting to come in, use enticements. Cheerios work for me and get her to walk with you jumping up on the stand. She is one month fresh, let her stay with her kids at night only and let her outdoors during the day. Still milk twice a day but take a FULL milking from her. She needs to rely on you to ease the pressure of her udder not her kids. Start her kids on some grain (they should be eating hay well and drinking water if they have seen Mom do it) and they will be fine separated got 12 hours. The doe is confused, she wants her kids to take her milk and you have to convince her otherwise and a full udder helps. Patience and time and routine do wonders.


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## islandhedgewitch (May 27, 2012)

Thanks for all the ideas everyone. I figured out what I'm supposed to do for my signature so my name's in there now. I got a bit more stern with her last night and this morning's milking went a lot better. She still gave me a bit of grief but I managed to do a full milking without it getting kicked or stepped in. I really hadn't wanted to have to tie her legs but it seems that that's what works with her. At least she didn't crap on the milk stand while I was milking her - that's her other favourite form of protest. 

I'm also wondering if she'll mellow out a bit once her sister (Peaches) is gone. Peaches is a loud obnoxious goat. She sits in the barn and bellows while I'm milking because she knows her sister is getting more food than her.


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

I have had a doe or two in the past who simply could not raise their kids and be milkers during the same lactation. One in particular will throw herself down on the stand and pin her legs beneath her so that it is impossible to reach her udder. When the head gate is too high for her to be able to do this she does it anyway and chokes herself out. She has to be dragged and hoisted onto the stand, she kicks, she jumps, she doesn't let down, and she screams... talk about an exercise in frustration. But if her kids are pulled right away and she bonds with me instead of her kids, she runs and jumps on the stand herself, stands politely eating her grain, lets down fully, and nary a flinch from those four feet. Milking her is as easy as it gets! It's like it is not even the same goat. I do leave kids on some of my girls and pull them at night, but I will not leave kids on a doe like this- I enjoy milking and a doe who behaves that way ruins it for me.


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