# Sand for barn floor



## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

After all the rain and talk of rain and how to get better drainage, etc. in the barn, DH and I decided we really wanted to go with sand rather than gravel b/c when we clean it out, we'd rather have sand than rocks accompany those pine shavings and manure to the garden. So, I asked a friend today who he found to be the better sand supplier for our area and we had a little chat about our plans.

Well, he told me that I really don't want sand in the barn, b/c fleas like to live in sand. Have those of you who put sand in your barns had a problem with this (or any other critter living in the sand, for that matter) and what do you recommend to insure this isn't a problem? I really don't want to go with gravel, but if it will be better for the animals, I'll do what is in their best interest before the interests of my (currently non-existant) garden. Thanks!


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I am keeping my sand covered in shavings until it all settles into the barn, right now it's a little beachy looking  I keep a pretty good handle on the fleas for the dogs, and I only have one dog who really frequents the barn all the time, so fleas aren't a concern for me in the barns. Having pea gravel around my garden beds, I can't even imagin how you would keep it clean in stalls. Vicki


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## paulaswrld (Mar 2, 2008)

Billie, I was at a farm last year after a bunch of rain and the sand was really damp feeling...what about crusher run? You should email Kim Emery (VSGBA) I have been told I need to go check her barns out..she uses crusher run in them.

I built...hahahaha..Glenn built the french drains...of course it hasn't rained since...


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## Madfarmer (Nov 18, 2008)

I have heard that fleas are species-specific. Dog fleas & cat fleas don't interchange, except to humans ( guess we're mongrels) We have bank sand under the bedding, like Vicki. I rub & pet on the goats a lot & haven't found any body bugs, although we have flies now & killer mosquitoes every time it rains. Steve is supposed to be getting SkinsoSoft from an Avon dist at work, but I thonk he forgot or it's on backorder.

Tom


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## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

Goats rarely get fleas. Although they might get on them and bite - they won't live on them as they are somewhat species specific. If you use sand, use the coarses sand possible. Very coarse sand will have bb size gravel in it and will drain even better - should be cheaper to purchase too.


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

Are you talking about sand fleas? If the sand came from a beach, maybe you'd have a problem, but I would think without their natural habitat, the fleas would die. For my barn substrate, I'd much rather use crushed gravel than sand. I don't know what they call it in your area, but it's kind of like sand, only packs down great, doesn't fly all over the place, you can rake over it without burying the poop, and best of all for me, it can go into the garden just like sand. Lots of people use it in around here in arenas and stalls for horses, either by itself or under stall mats as it will allow you to even the floor out before installing the mat. It's cheap too, the expensive part is hiring the dump truck to deliver it. 

The stuff looks kind of like the large oyster shell you buy in a bag for chickens, only with grit/sand mixed in. I have a client who uses it in his draft horse stalls, which are open to the outside and he never, ever has mud in them, even though the rain can get in the first foot of the doorway. He goes to the rock place and gets a dump bucket load on the back of his pickup every couple of months for $40. I know of several barns I go to that keep a big pile of it near the barn so that whenever they need to fill in a hole, apply more, etc. it's right there.


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Anita, I think that's what Paula's referring to as crusher run? Like what goes under road beds before the asphalt?


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## paulaswrld (Mar 2, 2008)

That is it exactly....It is $33.00 a ton from the quarry here in town...as soon as I go and see Kim's barns I am probably going to do that....first I have to figure out how to take out the 10 inches or so of build up in the barn now....YUCK!


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## Dacaree (Jan 31, 2009)

I read that using sand helps with mastitis because bacteria can't live in the sand.


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Dacaree, I heard that, too. LeeAnne, I think said that sand has been shown to be the best for keeping away mastitis. That is definitely a positive!

Paula, you and me, both! Right now I am not supposed to lift anything heavier than baby and cleaning out the barn is off limits! Now that DH has finally got everything bushhogged after the rain, maybe it can get done! How much area will a ton cover say 6 inches or so thick? 

Maybe I want to do sand on top of the crusher run??


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## Qvrfullmidwife (Oct 25, 2007)

Yes, I read an article on environmental mastitis and they said that although it may increase the work, sand is been shown to be the best for reducing mastitis, far better than straw, shavings, hay or sawdust (which was worst) because any leaked milk drains away.

http://www.nmconline.org/environmental.htm


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

We have something around here called "crush and run" and it's a driveway gravel. It has larger rocks in it, plus the crushed sandy stuff. It works great for driveways, but the larger rocks would end up in the garden. I'm sure various locations have differing names for their gravel types. I've also heard it called "blue stone". Guess you'd better look at what you're getting before you order it. I knew a guy once that wanted to rock a really long roadway that we led horses up and down every day to go out to their pastures. He ordered the rock, which ended up being these HUGE rocks, nothing like he'd wanted, but the driver was out there dumping before he could stop him and now they are stuck with it.


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## NWgoats (Jul 17, 2008)

Don't know it this will help, but we used the "driveway" gravel in our barn. Around here it is crushed rock 3/4 of an inch or less in size, but also includes some "fines" (read sand). It will take a lot more than you think. My barn is 24 x 24 and it took a full dump truck (12 yards) to fill it with 6 to 8 inches. (I don't know how many tons that is, you might ask how many yards a ton is)
We put the gravel in and nothing else. Of course, with the hay waste and manure, it doesn't take long to get a covering. 
The urine drains through, the manure gets stomped into pretty much dust. As the hay/straw breaks down into smaller pieces, it got really hard. What I have ended up with is almost like concrete floors, just a bit softer. After a few months, I just started pulling off the top layers (anything wet or manure piles) Since we have the hardened stuff underneath, as long as I keep the top dry, there is very little odor and I do the "knee test" daily. Pretty easy just use a garden rake and wheelbarrow to clean up. Although I do clean it daily, takes me about 1/2 hour. (But I only have 6 goats in there)


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## Jo~* (Oct 26, 2007)

Just wondering something, our sand here can be salty since sometimes its off the beach so I never used it when I had horses because of the maybe eating it issue. I had a mare that was always getting sand colic. So do you think it would be a bad idea for goats if I used sand from the beach? Now I'm talking ocean beach not river sand.


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## nappint (Jun 26, 2008)

We are on natural sand, very weird since we are nowhere near the beach. Our property sits on the banks of an ancient river bed so lots of sand was deposited here, we can't even dig a post hole in the summer :crazy . We left the barn floor natural and have used it for horses and now goats. We've never had any problems with critters or fleas. We love sand, the stalls stay dry and there is very little odor. I highly recommend it!

My only concern for you would be if you trucked in a bunch of sand but still had a non draining base like clay or N.TX gumbo. If the water can't drain the sand will still be wet and you will be in the same position. You might consider sloping the stalls so the water will drain once it goes through the sand. Does that make sense?


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Makes sense. It does have a poorly draining base (clay) so maybe I'll start w/ crush& run and then top w/ Sand...


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## catdance62 (Mar 2, 2009)

OUr barn floors are dirt and we rake the poop out every morning. The part where the goats hang out a lot is very hard--almost like stone. The part in the middle where it slopes down from each side and just outside is very loose, like sand, especially if it has been dry. I have never seen fleas, but there are scarab beetles that live out there that help clean up the poop too. They are a little scarcer this year due to the chickens coming and going. I like the hardened dirt floors because it is very easy to rake with a finger rake (cheap plastic rake from Home Depot). Also, the goats like to wallow out places in the barn dirt in the corners to lay in the summer when it is hot.


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## paulaswrld (Mar 2, 2008)

Billie, I was at the AI class today in Murfreesboro and had a detailed convo with some folks that tried sand and told me to "run" from that. They said it was okay at first but later it started to smell like a "septic system" and seemed always damp especially when it was very humid...like now...as it seemed to absorb some of the moisture from the air. They have found great success with Pea Gravel.. Just wanted to pass on the info.

P


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Thanks, Paula! The more I've thought about it, I think that for this area, I'd have to treat sand the same way I do wood shavings--as bedding, but not flooring--cleaning it out and replacing it often. I can see what you're saying about the smell, b/c this site wouldn't drain well. (I think I should have dug a pond in this location, rather than build a barn!!!)

My backhoe/bulldozer man quoted me roughly $200 a full dump truck of his finest rock. I will have to call Rogers Group and see how that compares to their crush & run... and maybe Garrett...


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## paulaswrld (Mar 2, 2008)

Darn, he told me something yesterday that you need to ask them about with the Chrush n run..he said make sure it does not have something with a D??....I go back today so I will ask again.


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Just called and Rogers Group said I wanted fines, not crush & run, b/c the c&r has larger stones in it, but fines is 3/4 and down. Said that is what most horse folks put in their barns. Looks like I need about 15 tons (boy will that be fun to shovel in the barn!) and that will run me $240 + tax... Their dump truck holds 24 tons. I wonder if my other guy's dump truck holds as much, b/c he quoted me less and I might get more for the money...?


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## Qvrfullmidwife (Oct 25, 2007)

so how will you rake berries from this?


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Think I'll also need regular bedding over it, but my barn floor is too low and drains poorly, so that's the main thing I need to fix first...


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## Qvrfullmidwife (Oct 25, 2007)

will you be able to rake shavings off of it?


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Should be able to... I suppose I need to go look at it as Anita said, before I have 15 tons of it dumped out here...


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## paulaswrld (Mar 2, 2008)

The folks I wrote about the other day said to NOT do fine as it ends up like concret and is rerally hard to keep clean. Where you are, much like me you need stuff to be able to drain...I am going with the pea gravel

BTW...I have been to several barns around here this past week and they arer ALL bad...give yourself a break, it has been raining for weeks and our soil is not made for that.

Paula


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## catdance62 (Mar 2, 2009)

our barn just made a teeny-tiny creek right down the middle when all that rain came!


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Paula Butler said:


> BTW...I have been to several barns around here this past week and they arer ALL bad...give yourself a break, it has been raining for weeks and our soil is not made for that.


Thanks  I really and truely needed that.


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