# Disbudding re-growth question *now more questions*



## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

I disbudded a few kids a couple of weeks ago. I am very inexperienced but I made sure I got a good copper ring around the hornbud. I pinched off the cap and then cauterized that area. I didn't burn the middle flat(where the "cap" was). Now the doeling is growing pink nubs since her scab fell off. Did it re-grow because she was already two and a half weeks old or is it because I didn't burn the middle more?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Disbudding re-growth question*

It's usually because your first copper ring is simply hair and skin, not hornbud. Once you do the first burn we then pop off the cap and pull out any exsisting hair. Do the other side. Than go back to the first one and get a good wide copper ring. Do the other side. Then burn the middle of the circle you made. Spray, done.

Check them weekly, they should start to scab and then raise up, just exactly like skinned knees do, and then the scab comes off all at ones. The tell tale sign you have scurs is when the disbudded area bleeds, or when the scab picks off. It should come off in a big round piece with bloody jelly ooze under it. Just disbud again, this time also doing the middle. Vicki


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

*Re: Disbudding re-growth question*

Thank you. My burns were just too wimpy, I guess. I am getting braver the more I do.


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## nightskyfarm (Sep 7, 2009)

*Re: Disbudding re-growth question*

That was me when I first began disbudding. You need the right amount of pressure in a slightly rocking motion and the length of time varies between irons. my x30 was a count to 12 and then check for the ring and touch any sections that did not look good. With the x50, the burn time is a bit shorter check after a count of 8. Your iron also needs to be hot enough. I check mine on a board and see how quickly I can burn a ring. it should burn a ring in a count of 5 or so and good depth by the count of 8 or 12, the same time as you would have it on the head. If it does that, then let your iron reheat a bit and try on the goat. Doing the disbudding at 3 to 4 days or when you can feel the horn budding will make for a clean head with no scurs. Bucks especially. if the iron is very hot, you will not need much pressure, but you have to be steady.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

*Re: Disbudding re-growth question*

Thanks for that, Jennifer.
Yesterday I tried to re-do it and I got scared because after the first side, she couldn't breathe out of her nose very well. I iced her head and tried to do the second side. Anyway I didn't do it right at all and I know that horn isn't gone. There is definite copper ring around the edge this time but the middle is still tall and I couldn't even get it cauterized good. She was fighting like mad, too big for the box, so I had her folded up under me and I was "sitting on her". Not really sitting, of course. Can I re-burn the middle today without frying her brain? I just had to stop last night because I was too spazzed out with her fighting and stopped up nose. 
Oh, I did give her a tiny dab of banamine for the swelling in her sinuses.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

If the top is really tall, you can heat up your iron, make sure it is super hot, and then with your hoof nippers, take the cap off flush with the head.....it will spray blood at you, just hit it fast with the side of your iron to stop the bleeding and burn the top of the head. Next time, don't let the heads go more than 2 or 3 days before disbudding LaManchas....and as soon as you see it didn't work hit it again.

Really the tips they have for the disbudders really don't work well with goats. This inside diameter of the tips are too small and the inside deapth of the tip rocks on the hornbuds so you aren't getting a deep enough burn, especially that tear drop one. We put a 3/4 inch outside diameter copper bushing on our Rhinehart, this makes sure our burn is actually to the outside of the bud, if the cap doesn't pop off flush and leaves a pointy peak I cut them off flush and then fill in the copper ring with a copper burn. Now that I have two disbudding iorns we are going to burn the copper ring and then go back with the other iron that is going to have a flat tip, exactly the inside diameter of the ring...this should fix buck scurs. V


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

That sounds like a good idea about the flat iron. If that doesn't fix it, I don't know what would!
I did a "figure eight" on the bucklings and they look better than this doeling. With the "figure eight" the second copper ring cut through the middle of the horn bud so when I went to flatten the top with the side of the iron, there was hardly any tissue there to burn. 
So what about her nose getting all stopped up after burning last night? That is just from the sinuses, right? Her tiny little Lamancha brain is OK?


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## supermom (Feb 24, 2009)

Michelle.....you are making me nervous!!!!!!! :lol


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

LOL. I figured you'd see this and think "yikes!". Actually out of seven kids, so far she is the one who has given me a hard time, but when I looked back I realize she was THREE weeks old when i disbudded her...much too late.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

IF you disbud too far forward you can make their eyes swell. My husband will hold a kid so tight now and then he gives them a fat lip or makes their gums bleed, I had a reburn on someone elses buckling nearly bleed to death, literally dripping blood out his nose and I was pouring blood stop down his hornbud that had a hole in it down into his sinuses, while 2 friends (both old timers to goats) looked on with horrified looks while we all pretended to the owner all was well...thankfully all was well in the end! We have burnt ears, and literally had a kids hair flame up the iron had gotten so hot after a marathon disbudding. And I right now have a yearling who will go to Texas A&M this spring to be dehorned. We also had the group of kids, shared on the forum, that instead of grabbing the yellow can of Furox, husband used the screw worm spray and it somehow caused massive weeping and pain to all the kids, presold kids....it in the end was the best job of disbudding I had ever seen, but it was one scarry couple of days of steroids and pain killers to keep them eating! We all fly by the seat of our pants with this, if you get a scur started just reburn, if it grows back again reburn...if you don't keep on top of it and let it grow into a full scur or horn thake the goat into to be surgically removed. V


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## supermom (Feb 24, 2009)

That's it.....after Vicki's last post....I don't think I even want to learn. :faint


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

See, I would want to learn so your kids aren't at the mercy of anyone else :rofl


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## supermom (Feb 24, 2009)

No, I want you to teach Michelle really well....and she's going to do mine for me. I'll pay her whatever!!!!!! dance:


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## favablue (Apr 11, 2009)

LOL!
If we botch a job the first round and can not get to it for a second round we wait until fall/winter and band the horns. We much prefer it to re-burning. It seems less stressful all around. We have had great success with banding. The only thing we don't like is that you have to wait so long to band until the horn base is big enough.

We have never had it surgically done, but I think it would be nice.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

supermom said:


> That's it.....after Vicki's last post....I don't think I even want to learn. :faint


I second this. Yuck.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Well, I am determined to learn! And Vicki, I appreciate your candor! It is helpful to hear real experiences from real people who do this all the time.


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## MayLOC (Oct 26, 2007)

Like Vicki already said just reburn them until you get it right. I would think that would be simpler than banding later and less expensive and traumatic than having them surgically removed later, because they went too long.

We use a homemade calf horn iron, which is pretty much a pipe with a thicker circular fitting on the end. We use the smallest calf one we have and either heat it to red hot with the propane iron heater or with a torch. We are used to doing thicker skinned calves heads, so we have to actually tone our method down for the goat kids and not use as much twisting of the iron. I think our horn iron with a hollow center allows us less problem to do the older kids then other folks.

We just did three kids this morning. They were all doelings (I do not let the bucks go so long), but two were 2 weeks and the third was 3 weeks. They are saanen and sable kids. Their heads have a small flate nub in the middle of the horn bud area, that wouldn't have been there if we had done them at a few days old like I like to, but I am confident that they will turn out just as smooth and nice as those we do at a few days old. We never have problems with doelings heads. We have had to reburn a buck kids head and we have had scurs on a buck kid also. But I think that the design of our horn iron is what allows us to not have trouble with the bigger kids. We also will nip off the horn tip with nippers and then quickly burn, which should work fine if the base of the horn isn't too big to fit in your type of burner.


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