# Another goat snake bit



## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

Now Spice is snake bit. She is a favorite LM doe and will be a 6F this spring, a foundation doe. It happened Saturday and it's her left lower foreleg. I know how to treat the symptoms and so forth, I am just concerned now about necrosis. That whole foot and ankle is looking questionable. 

This is the 3rd snake bit goat this summer. The first was a meat buck that died and the second was a breeding buckling bit on the face that lived.


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## Sharpgoat (Feb 7, 2008)

Yes I have had 2 dogs bitten and my JRT this last week. :sigh
One thing I have found that helps the most is giving Pen G. ... snakes have dirty mouths. 
You could do hydro therapy thats what my vet says for horse legs with blood supply issues.
Fran


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Boost her immune system BoSe if you have it and pleanty of Vit C 
Hope she makes it


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Echinacea, echinacea, echinacea. I mean it. Let her eat the roots, the leaves whatever. Or buy some tincture and give her a tablespoon or two (pour a little boiling water in it and let it sit a minute to get hte alchohol out. Taste the tincture and make sure it tingles your tongue so you know it's strong enough. You can also put echinacea on the bite itself. It is great for this stuff. 

The bite could cause that foot to founder. Might do some cold water soaks to keep the inflammation and swelling down.


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## Daniel Babcock (May 28, 2008)

I lost a buck this year to a rattle snake bite on the nose. Devastating! I was not able to use him!

Last year My Russel Terrier was bitten on the hock by a large Rattle Snake, I thought there was no way he would live. 

My crazy dog found the snake and grabbed it in the middle and started shaking it (he has killed many blow snakes this way) he let it go pretty quick when it bit him back.

The vet reccomended an antibiotic, as well as banamine to keep the swelling down. He lost much of the hair on his hock and had two large 'burn' marks where the fangs were. But he lived crazy dog!

Good luck!


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## kuwaha (Aug 22, 2009)

I've read that bells on the goats collars warn snakes off... not the noise but the vibrations. I liked the bells for the sweet tinkling sound but don't know of the veracity of their use to prevent snake bite, just figured I'd put my 2c in ... again


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## Hollybrook (Jul 17, 2009)

My goodness am sorry to hear Diane I saw your picture of your buck, I hope everthing turns out ok you all be careful out there seems to be year of the snakes that's fur sure Ive seen 3 rat snakes, copperhead and a rattler out here (east central Alabama) no snakes previous 3 yrs.


Karen you may be onto something most of our goats wear bells their down along the creek thick thick vegetation looks like Vietnamese jungle and no bites knock on wood!!


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## Guest (Aug 18, 2010)

How is your goat doing diane
Barb


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## hammerithot (May 31, 2010)

kuwaha said:


> I've read that bells on the goats collars warn snakes off... not the noise but the vibrations. I liked the bells for the sweet tinkling sound but don't know of the veracity of their use to prevent snake bite, just figured I'd put my 2c in ... again


Absolutely not true! Rattle snakes in particular are pit vipers. They don't know you're there until they get your heat signature. I'm not sure about cotton mouths. But, we do know that no snakes "sense" vibration in the ground. They're either pit vipers or they use their tongues to "taste" the air.

I'd imagine most goats getting bit by snakes is a result of the snake snuggling up to the goat to get warm while the goat is sleeping. Snakes will seek warmth, and if the warm spot is also still, they'll snuggle up. I had a client whose horse was bitten on the chest when he went to get up and disturbed the rattlesnake that had snuggled up to him. On the nose, of course, is more apt to be a case of a goat sticking his head too close to a snake. These days, we're causing especially rattlers to become much more dangerous.

I hope the goat pulls through okay. Try cold hosing. If you have a cold stream that runs nearby, that would be an excellent place to make her stand for 15-20 minutes three or four times a day.


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## Sharpgoat (Feb 7, 2008)

I don't think at this time of year it is a snake looking for a warm spot we are in the 100 f around here and they are coming out at night are looking for there food and I bet the goat step on it.
Fran


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## Ozark Lady (Mar 21, 2010)

I have seen goats and deer with snakes, they hate them, and they try to stomp them.
Didn't you say it was her front leg? Like she was stomping it, and it bit her.
I bet the goat was going to kill it.
I have actually seen less snakes than usual, but it is so dry here, drought, so they are likely hanging out where there is more water.


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## sarafina (Dec 26, 2009)

There was an article in the Houston Chronicle this morning about a training class to teach dogs to avoid snakes. They put a shock collar on the dog and have several snakes they have clipped the fangs on (they grow back in 3 days) and milked out the venom. When the dog gets close to the snake or the snake strikes, they hit the button on the collar. The ultimate test at the end of class is where they put a snake between the owner and the dog and have the owner call the dog. Normally the dog would run straight to the owner but when they see the snake they give it a wide berth. 

Not useful for goats, but might be something to consider for a LGD with as much time and money you invest in them. They said the class was $40.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Why would you train a goat to avoid snakes? I always try to get mine to kill them. My old dog was great at killing them but my two younger ones are pretty pathetic. One at least bounces around and barks at them. The other acts like they don't exist.


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## sarafina (Dec 26, 2009)

Ashley said:


> Why would you train a goat to avoid snakes? I always try to get mine to kill them. My old dog was great at killing them but my two younger ones are pretty pathetic. One at least bounces around and barks at them. The other acts like they don't exist.


I wasn't suggesting it and in fact I said "Not useful for goats" in my post. I was thinking about the LGD's and the money and time folks have invested in them. The article did not cite statistics, but said a very large number of dogs died every year from snake bites.


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## kuwaha (Aug 22, 2009)

"we do know that no snakes "sense" vibration in the ground."

There seems to be quite a lot of scientific evidence to the contrary, I read several articles from 1960's right through to 2008. No they don't hear like we do but they do have an inner ear and can receive sound waves both through the air and the ground... nobody seems to be sure how developed it all is but there does seem to be a general consensus that they can "hear" in some form....

Isn't it amazing what we learn on a dairy goat forum ?  

I must say I am glad not to live in an area with too many snakes!


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

sarafina said:


> Ashley said:
> 
> 
> > Why would you train a goat to avoid snakes? I always try to get mine to kill them. My old dog was great at killing them but my two younger ones are pretty pathetic. One at least bounces around and barks at them. The other acts like they don't exist.
> ...


 I didn't know that. I think all three of my dogs have been bit by copperhead, one a couple times. But never had one bit by a rattlesnake or something like that that would be more dangerous.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Just in case...
You can help tremendously with injections of vit c.- very high doses that cannot be taken orally.
Vets in the dry southwest where rattlers are really a problem have been stocking it to help livestock dogs survive. There are some articles online about it.


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## hammerithot (May 31, 2010)

"There seems to be quite a lot of scientific evidence to the contrary, I read several articles from 1960's right through to 2008. No they don't hear like we do but they do have an inner ear and can receive sound waves both through the air and the ground... nobody seems to be sure how developed it all is but there does seem to be a general consensus that they can "hear" in some form...."

I've not seen anything that suggests that they can tell what's coming. They'll only avoid you (by leaving the area) if they know what you are. Also, the odds that a goat or human is making enough vibrations aren't good. If they don't even slither off the road for a car, or out of the trail for a horse, chances are not good that they know what's coming. Sure, they may "hear," but that doesn't mean they can interpret what they "hear" as to the odds they are in danger.

Rattlesnake training for dogs is quite effective. I had my two ranch guards trained, and they will now avoid snakes. They do, however, let me know if there's one around!


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

Spice is recovering slowly. She is up and walking but likes to lay down. We have kept her penned all week when the rest of the herd goes out for the day to browse. She has been fed in the pen and had her water brought to her. But she is up and getting plenty of exercise, she just doesn't have to if she doesn't feel like it. The swelling is way down. I am going out there now for evening check.


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## Guest (Aug 21, 2010)

good to hear Diane
Barb


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

Spice is recovered from any acute problems from the snake bite but is not at 100%. Darn! She is my favorite old "colostrum doe". She will be a 6 year old 6th freshener. She has had one single and 4 sets of triplets. I always breed her first because she gives me huge amounts of her good colostrum and I can pre-heat-treat it in advance of other kids being born.

But this year she is a little bit not herself and I do not want to breed her if her ovum are "sick" or reduced from the venom. So I will breed a couple other old does for colostrum and let Spice recover more fully and reassess later.


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## sarafina (Dec 26, 2009)

Glad to hear she is on the mend and doing better.


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## Laverne (Apr 4, 2010)

What a relief that she's recovering.


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