# Better Cheese Making Resources?



## Anita Martin

I usually only do a batch of chevre a week. Sometimes I'll do some feta or a soft molded cheese. I'm using the book "goats produce too", which drives me crazy because most of the recipe's call for starter cultures or mother cultures, buttermilk, etc. I normally use the culture in packets and would like a book that uses packets of dry culture. Would make things so much easier! I have the chevre down pretty well, but when I go to make other cheeses, I get confused with the amounts of culture I need.

I'd like to get an advanced book or two that explain the process and gets more in-depth than just the simple recipe. Or a website. Pav's website was great but I lost the link...shouldn't be too hard to find though. 

When I do my feta's or aged cheeses, I've found that they are not consistant and would really like to get them that way. I think soap is so much easier!


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## linuxboy

If you want a customized approach for you, I think it's easiest if you write your own book and recipes tailored to your situation.

What cheeses do you make and what cultures do you use?

If you want to read about more of the process, try cheeseforum.org. for example, for scaling http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,5315

The recipes I put up on wacheese.com has somewhat detailed explanations.


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## IndyGardenGal

This book was recommended to me by a professional cheese maker. Very detailed about the cheese making process. http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1931498776


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## linuxboy

Paul's book is quite decent, but still over the head of many people with the explanations. And, no clear recipes or exact guidance tailored to your situation. There's no good literature out there that covers everything using best available science and best practices. 

I still suggest making your own sheets and recipes from a solid starting point based on your unique situation. If you want to search less and want exact answers to your questions, give me a call, we can talk through it.


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## Anita Martin

The info I'm really looking for is like how much culture and rennet (I'm using flora danica and a double strength vegetable rennet) I use per gallon of milk for making chevre and feta, etc. I normally use about 2 gallons of milk per batch since that's what my pot will hold below the handle. Does it really vary per circumstance? Would I use the same amount of flora danica as I would an mm100 or something similar? I would absolutely love to make a consistant cheese that turned out the same every time.


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## fmg

I usually just use the instructions on the culture packet. Also, in that goats produce too book, i think it does have some kind of conversion for this much culture=this much buttermilk. I think that most recipes would use the same amount of any mesophilic culture. I have decided that the amount of rennet I need to use is going to vary based on where in lactation the goats are. I had to use more for this first batch of cheese to turn out, than at the end of lactation. I'm going to start keeping a "cheese log" of how much of each thing I used. Kind of like your own cheese recipe book like Pav was talking about.


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## linuxboy

> The info I'm really looking for is like how much culture and rennet (I'm using flora danica and a double strength vegetable rennet) I use per gallon of milk for making chevre and feta, etc. I normally use about 2 gallons of milk per batch since that's what my pot will hold below the handle.


Got it. Here's the low-down.

Rennet:
When making cheese, the rennet amount differs for each family. Meaning, a chevre semi-lactic type uses a different amount (usually something like 1/5-1/10th the amount) than a hard cheese. Rennet is standardized to a certain strength based on clotting units. Clotting units are a measure of rennet strength. The general rule of thumb is to use 0.6 - 0.8 ml of single strength rennet per gallon of milk for hard cheese. If your rennet is double strength, use half the amount. A quick approximation is 1/4 tsp single strength per gallon of milk. Again, for hard cheese.

For culture, the goal is to inoculate with 1.0% - 1.5% of the amount of the milk if you were using bulk culture. So say you were using buttermilk, or cultured your own mother starter. You would use 1.28-1.92 fluid ounces of starter per gallon. When you are using a powdered freeze dried starter, the culture is really, really concentrated. And here is where the difficulty comes in. It's hard to know just how concentrated. If you are buying from a known manufacturer, like Danisco or Chris Hansen or Abiasa, they standardize to a certain quantity of bacteria per packet, and a packet will contain 10 or 25 or some other number of a culturing unit. A culturing unit is a set number of bacteria. For Danisco starters, they standardize so that 6-7 DCU per 100 liters of milk is the same as a 1% bulk starter amount. So all recipes follow that general convention.

With mystery packets, it's different. They are repacked and relabeled, and it's a little hard to know the strength. I don't like using them. If I had to, I would reculture them in skim milk, and use them like a mother.



> Does it really vary per circumstance?


Kind of. These are rules of thumb, as explained. It does have a certain logic to it.


> Would I use the same amount of flora danica as I would an mm100 or something similar? I would absolutely love to make a consistant cheese that turned out the same every time.


Generally, use the same number of bacteria. Now, FD and MM do not have the same number per weight or volume of culture. From what I recall CHR Hansen's FD, when standardized to DCU weighs 10-15% more for the same number of bacteria.


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## nightskyfarm

I would like to suggest Margaret Morris's "The Cheese Maker's Manual" a great resource. As far a feta is concerned: late lactation milk is better suited. I use MT1 culture for feta with superb results. I do pasteurize and drop milk temp to around 95 degrees add culture (1/4 tsp for 4 gallons) Let sit for 45 min and then add rennet (I use only veal rennet) 1 tsp per 3-4 gallons of milk. Wait for 45 min or so and cut. Heat slowly and stir the curds, lifting from the bottom until contracted ( looks like cottage cheese) drain and reserve whey for brine. Drain for at least 8 hours then cut and brine. I use 3 handfuls of sea salt to a bucket half full of whey and water with a bit if ACV. Allow the cut curd and brine to rest for a day at ropm temp then place in fridge.


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## Anita Martin

Wow, that's a lot of info! I have used my culture's to make a mother culture of my own but I do not make enough cheese to use it fast enough so it goes bad. I have also used buttermilk from the grocery store with good results. The feta I made this week turned out perfect....but I have no idea why! Last year I ruined batches of feta without knowing why. I have soap books I keep notes on every batch I make, makes sense to keep a cheese book too. Never even thought about that! Every time I open up my one cheese book to make another cheese I get annoyed as heck at trying to decipher how much culture to use when it says 1/4 cup culture or buttermilk for 5 quarts of milk ( I use pounds or gallons, never quarts)...that equals how much of a dry starter??? grrrr. It's just me, I'm slow. The notebook is a must I'll get that tomorrow and record Pav's info. Or, even if the recipe said for every quart you use this amount of "whatever it is", I could do the math on that....figuring up the math per 5 quarts when I'm making a 3 gallon batch is more than I want to spend time figuring...and then some batches would need to be two gallon because that's all the milk I got at that milking, etc.


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## linuxboy

> I have used my culture's to make a mother culture of my own but I do not make enough cheese to use it fast enough so it goes bad.


Can always freeze it 


> trying to decipher how much culture to use when it says 1/4 cup culture or buttermilk for 5 quarts of milk ( I use pounds or gallons, never quarts)...that equals how much of a dry starter???


I convert everything to "bulk equivalent". It goes like this... for 1% bulk starter, you need 1% of the weight or volume. Technically, it's weight, but in real life it doesn't matter much for smaller batches. When using DVI, what you can do is, the night before, take a jar of milk and boil it, then cool down to the right temp (80-85 for meso, 100-105 for thermo). Then add a pinch of powder, and let it set. Just like making yogurt. This way, no guessing, no relying to recipes. It's always 1% using the mother. And this way, no need to reculture. You can either make enough for a week or two at a time, using the powder, or freeze the starter.

I really like using the bulk starter method. Not a fan of DVI.



> when I'm making a 3 gallon batch is more than I want to spend time figuring...and then some batches would need to be two gallon because that's all the milk I got at that milking, etc.


Exactly. The powdered stuff, you never know the concentration. If you use the bulk approach, it is the same amount per gallon each time. Then multiply by the gallons or lbs of milk and you are done.


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## MF-Alpines

Anita, have you looked at "Home Cheese Making" by Ricki Carroll? Her website is www.cheesemaking.com.


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## Golden Delta Alpines

Thanks Cindy for sharing the link to that website. Lots of great info!


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