# Factrel (GnRH) instead of PG600 when using CIDR



## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

Okay, so I'm trying to figure this out. I have used CIDRs to be able to breed my dairy goats for off season breeding (want to produce winter milk). Protocol given: Day1 CIDR in, Day 14 PG600, Day 16 CIDR out, breed (with a buck) when in standing heat. I do not have PG600, but I do have Factrel, which is Gonadorelin Hydrochloride (GnRH). This can be used in case of cystic ovaries, since it induces the release of FSH and LH. That's exactly what PG600 does, right? So can I use the factrel instead? What would the dose/timing be? Same? Different? Please advise!!!


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

It's not the protocoal I use....I use the one that works  CIDR, morning of 21 days give 1.5cc PG600 IM, pull CIDR that night, in with the buck in the morning, does are bred usually in 24 hours. You can get PG600 from jeffers, from QCsupply.com and from pipevet.com so I use PG600, cause it works, each time, every time...and I am old, hate change and like to use what works  Vicki


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

I am so going with 'the protocol that works', 'cause it sure sounds like you know what you are talking about! Plus it gives me a few extra days to get that PG600! Thanks! Oh and one more question. Since it comes in (I believe) 3 dose vials and I didn't know this when I started the CIDRs: I did 4 does at a time (2 LaM and 2 Saanen, so Bucks can handle the work), and then 3-5 days later, I have 4 more coming. So if I make an extra bottle of the PG600 for that 4th doe: do I really have to throw away the rest immediately, or can I keep it refrigerated for a few days at least?

By the way: such great info and knowledge on this site: so glad I found it, 'cause it's been hard finding anyone that knows some reel facts about dairy goats!


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I make it up and then keep it in the fridge, use it for that group of goats that month and then throw it out. I stagger, depending upon how many bucks I have to use, not giving bucks more than 3 or 4 does to breed a day (hand breed) if they are older, 1 if they are younger...so no way is anyone giving one shot and throwing the rest of the bottle away to do it again in 2 days and then again in 3 days  even though I have even read some say they do this "never save the PG600 once mixed".

My biggest warning is to not use more than the 1.5cc of PG600, and it has to be a good muscle shot. Even with 1.5cc it will likely put one more kid in the uterus. Give even 2cc and you can have does with quints...sounds good doesn't it, but does who are not genetically able to carry quints, will abort about 3 weeks early when the weight of the kids in utero exceeds the weight of what her uterus can carry. So when 1.5cc works, a little more can be a diasaster. Some have to learn this for themselves just how touchy the PG600 dosage is. Vicki


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

Oh, I am so glad you said that about the exact dosage. I was actually weary of the 'super ovulation' part, because yes, I like two beautiful doelings out of each doe (had three healthy great ones on occasion) but DEFINITELY don't want 4 or 5, because I can already feel all those legs tangled up and me trying to figure out who's who... (been there done that very recently). Now I feel okay with sticking to the exact 1.5 cc. So, good muscle shot, I personally like to do that in the neck, so I hope that's okay. I know a lot of people do it differently but to me it always seems I get the best hold on the goat that way and put the least stress on them.

Thanks again for the advice. Ordering the PG600 right now!


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

Used the 21 day protocol, the ladies came in heat as planned on day 22 and I have bred the first four. I sure hope the bucks aren't shooting blanks, because all the rest worked exactly as planned (with your help, Vicki: thanks so much!). Next four coming up in 4 days, and we'll keep that up for a few weeks. Hope to milking well this winter!


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Good news!


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## chardell (Aug 12, 2011)

ok question im very new at this the cdir says to put a newone in each day for 5 days is this correct or do you leave one in for 21 days? i dont want to mess this up


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

You only use one CIDR the whole time, you do not have to change them out. You just insert it, then pull it on whatever day the protocol you are using suggests.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

You should check it at least daily though, to make sure it is still in place. If the goats are able, they will figure out how to pull it out. Most people cut the little ball off the end to keep them from having a place to "grip".


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

May I ask where you heard you replace them  Since you can reuse them one more time, that is some really bad information I would like to see corrected. Thanks, Vicki


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Vicki, from her post, it sounds like it said that on the package.


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## chardell (Aug 12, 2011)

thank you very much for your responce i went back and re read the package in it says Administer one insert per ewe for 5 days.Estrus generally occurs 1 to 3 days after removal of insert. thank you for clearing this up for me. I have a lot to learn


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