# LGD thoughts: akbash/pyrenees mix?



## jillig (Jul 21, 2009)

I went and saw some akbash/pyrenees mix pups today; about 3 1/2mo old. Anybody have this particular blend? Any thoughts? I've been trying to do some reading on LGDs, but I'm not sure if I should be looking for anything specific. 
Both parents are on site, both working a large Boer herd. The pups were out there too, and the 2 I may be interested in weren't chasing or harrassing the goats. They only have males left, so I think if I took one, it would just be one, not two (everything I have read seems to say mixed sexes are better). 

I appreciate your thoughts!
Jillian :biggrin


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## MayLOC (Oct 26, 2007)

Hi Jillian,

We have two coming 2 year old brothers that are a pretty equal three way cross of Akbash, Pyrenees and Anatolian. We have been real pleased with them. We got them about 3 1/2 months old also. We previously had a full brother from an earlier litter for 2 years or so. Got him around 6 months old and had him two years I think before we lost him (vet thinks it was a twisted gut). I really love these dogs. The three we have had have the shorter hair like an anatolian but still gets very thick in the winter and they often sleep out in the snow storms by choice and are comfortable. But nice not to have all that pyr. hair in the summer I think. They have been real good with the goats and kids and definitely good at their work. They are with the goats full time and have been since we got them. well, my little guy is mad, so gotta go, but that has been our experience so far. However we have not had any experience with full pyr. I know camille raises them and is near you so I am sure she could tell you though.


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## megan (Nov 10, 2008)

I have an almost 7 month old male GP/Akbash cross with just a sprinkle of anatolian in there too.

He is super awesome!!! I just love him. and I really have no complaints about him. but he is also my first LGD so I have nothing to compare him with.

I love his shorter hair and dry mouth (which he got from his mother the Akbash).

I would love to get another LGD mix just like him but unfortunately he was the last litter his breeder is planning to have. but I will be keeping my eyes open for more like him!!


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

We have the same mix and happy with him.


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## jillig (Jul 21, 2009)

Thanks for the feedback!
Any hints on what to look for-things to shy away from? As far as a dog, he looks and feels sound, but as a LGD?
I think I am spending more time on this dog debating than I did my first two goats! ...I was really excited for the opportunity to get my first two girls...


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## Patty13637 (Oct 26, 2007)

Most all young pups will chase or bug your stock . Put the pup in with the mean ones who will not take the pups crap . One or 2 good hits usually cures them from playing to hard.


Patty


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## debrad636 (Jul 17, 2008)

When you get your new pup, remember, he has a job to do, and that is protecting your goats. Meaning, he is not a pet, he is a working dog. We made a mistake with our 1st dog. She was so cute, we played and loved on her too much. She thought her spot was on the front porch, or with us, not the goats. Couldn't keep her in with the goats without electric fence, then one terrible day, she decided to 'play' with one of my does, luckily, I caught her, before she hurt my doe. Maggie had this doe by the neck running with the frightend doe. Nothing was hurt. She went to a new home the next day. 
Our next dog came from working parents, and this pup was with parents also. He was 3 1/2 months old. We put him in with goats. He was more comfortable with them than with us. He has been awesome. We don't treat him as a pet, but as a working animal. He gets fed well, wormed, and an occasional pat on the head. Other than that, those girls out in the pasture are his. He stays with them, he doesn't like me to change anything on his girls. I tried to put bells on a couple of them, by the next day, I seen him pulling them off.
Good luck on your choice.

Thanks Deb


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## jillig (Jul 21, 2009)

Thank you both. 
I brought him home yesterday...still a little unsure about the whole situation. I feel like i have bitten off more than I should. 
I get not bonding with him or spoiling him, but I do need him to be able to walk on a leash, and come when called. He is doing okay so far, although I'm having trouble finding a way to feed him without the goats eating his food! I think I will have to pull him out everyday to feed him, but I already do that with the buck, so that would be a little higher maintanence than I would prefer.
How do you feed your dog? 
thanks again!


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## MayLOC (Oct 26, 2007)

we feed ours 2x/day in the pen while we milk
ours gobble their food down in about 2 min max
always done it that way
they learn quick to eat when thy are given portioned food


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## pilotlass (Nov 10, 2009)

You've got a good blend of breeds. You are correct about not mixing genders. It is inevitable that the rank issue will surface when they are past 2 years of age if they're the same sex. 

The best working dog combo for a pair is a M and F aged 2 years apart. Older LGD 3-4 years paired with the younger. Because these breeds don't mature until they're past 2 years, there is still alot that can go wrong without the guidance of an older, experienced working LGD.


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## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

We have raised awesome livestock guardian dogs as pups - and only pups. If they are well-bred Great Pyrenees, you don't have to teach them anything, just manners, leash, and indicate that you want them to guard only your property - not the whole mountain!

We prefer 100% Great Pyrenees (why breed away from perfection? LOL) but Akbash are the closest in temperament to a Great Pyrenees, so you should feel pretty good about your puppy. We bond with our dogs. 100% . Doesn't affect their ability to guard one little bit. Keep the puppy in the pen though. Once it realizes that it can guard your WHOLE property, it will do everything it can to get out in order to do so. If you want to let it guard the whole property at some point (generally safe at 14 months of age) then you walk the dog on leash around the perimeter of your property about 2-3 X a week (more if you have the time) for about a month. They get the general idea (actually, they know where your property begins and ends already, but this way you can tell them what you want). 

If you have feeding issues while the puppy is young, you can build a little pen inside your goat pen that the pup can get into but not the goats and feed in there. They do learn to gobble fast and protect their food, but I don't want my goats eating dog food in the meantime!

What Patty said is right on - let the big girls train the pup. don't tempt the puppy with baby goats that are so fun to chase....


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## Ping (Jan 21, 2010)

If you've never had LGDs and don't know much about their training then you may want to go with a more experienced older dog. They don't fully mature until two years old and are not 100% trustworthy until then. It is a lot of work training a pup so you end up with a guardian you are happy with. We started in LGDs about a year ago and the learning curve is steep. We are experienced dog people, but LGDs are not like other dogs. This is an excellent yahoo group all about working LGDs. Get on there and ask their advice. Very knowledgable and helpful people. [email protected]


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

> , but LGDs are not like other dogs


True in our experience as well. And also true that once you get them going there is nothing so wonderful.

Absolute baloney not to bond. How will you doctor and worm and keep them from doing anything you don't want done.
Not bonding equals wild dog. No thanks. Our dogs are so glad to see us and get lots of lovin and then go right back their goats.
That is their breeding. But you will regret not being able to control a very large willful dog in your space. And should they litter then you will have a whole pack of wild dogs.

They are very smart but work on their own set of programs that are hard wired. And I think full maturity is beyond 2 years. They may be physically mature but they continue to learn and develop way beyond that.

I don't understand the not mixing genders- we have run a pair for 6 years and the female is dominant as in most dog breeds. 
They tussle but it is all in fun and they are a formidable duo when something serious is happening. The pair of sisters fought far more than this pair. And serious fighting too with fur flying.

It really isn't a good idea to make them eat fast. Torsion and bloat are a problem with wolfing food rapidly. 
Please consider giving them a space to eat that the goats cannot access. The dog is doing an important job for you and deserves a decent interval to nourish and relax while doing so. Ours love their kitchen chow and want to enjoy. They generally lay down and nibble a bit of this and that and eat very slowly. I think it is a good idea to let them enjoy their meals and be off duty for awhile. It makes them strange about eating to have to be on guard. Best not to set up any situations where there is tension.
esp between dog and goat.

Good luck- wish I needed a pup but wow in this mud....it would look more like a warthog.


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## pilotlass (Nov 10, 2009)

Yes you do have to teach puppies to act on their instincts. That is usually the problem I get from farmers, etc. They threw the pup in with their stock WITHOUT the aid of a mature LGD or an understanding of the breed itself. This is a recipe for an anxious dog that can lack confidence, develop poor behaviors and cause problems. The mature LGD would not allow the pup to chase the stock, chew ears/tails, steal the babies. When the human caregiver is not there to correct these developing inappropriate behaviors and there is no experienced LGD to show the way, the pup has to figure it out and its not always successful. Don't get me wrong, there are puppies who have done found their way themselves but why set up future LGDs for failure. This guidance is critical to a balanced LGD.


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## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

I agree with Sandra - while a well-bred Pyrenees will probably find its' way, you still need to use common sense and set the dog up to succeed. If (after penning as a puppy with adult does) it begins to chase the does (sometimes one is more skittish than another), then unless you can be in the pen 24/7, SEPARATE the dog from the goats. You may have to separate for a week.... Then put the dog back in. If the behaviour repeats, remove again. The dog will grow out of this phase, but you don't want something unexpected/bad to happen in the meantime.

Last comment, and one that I mean very sincerely: Talk to the owner/seller of the pup/dog that you just purchased. A huge benefit of purchasing a LGD from a good breeder (just like goats!) is not only health, but they should be able to answer questions and provide guidance and troubleshooting.

If you use the internet, you will get a lot of different opinions, many of which are in direct contradiction of one another. If the breeder is successful, then following their feeding and routine (Gee, how that can soooo apply to goats as well! LOL) and then tweaking a little to suit your circumstances is probably the best way to go. Reading and studying is good - helps you to ask better questions and perhaps understand your breed better.

Good luck - a little work in the short run is going to make you a very happy owner in the long run!


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