# Milking and cleanliness



## jasonmtapia

Ok a bit of background, we have had backyard dairy for 5 years on our small acre+. However we lost 2 years due to a new baby boy and complicated life. This year we have a 3 fresher and a 1st freshner along with 5 kids. We have Always used Storeys guide to raising dairy goats methods of milking and cleaning buckets etc. the question is how necessary is all that. I would be interested in hearing from those in the real world as to common sence methods. Or if you can recommend some good reading it would be appreciated.


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## swgoats

When I'm hand milking, I milk into quart freezer containers. I prefer this to buckets since I don't have to worry about a bucket full of milk getting kicked. If it's milk for my bottle babies, I just pop the containers in the fridge. If it is milk for us, I strain it through a Bounty paper towel into a mason jar, and put it in the fridge. Any jar larger than a quart goes into an ice water bath in the fridge to cool it quicker. The empty freezer containers go into the dishwasher. I've put stainless buckets in the dishwasher too. If it's good enough or baby bottles and sterilizing canning jars, then I figure it's good enough for me. . So no, I'm not scrubbing with a stiff brush and dairy acid cleaners.


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## jasonmtapia

That's good to kno


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## jasonmtapia

Sorry my ipad posted accidentally. That's good to know because we don't pasteurize anymore I like the concept of un pasteurized milk. My current thought is inline with those who believe it is better. We have never gotten sick. But with so many claiming un pasteurized milk is toxic waste, I cannot help but be a little paranoid about my decision. I brush the girls well, clean the users first with warm wash cloths and then the teats with baby wipes, but still there seems to occasionally me some rogue hair that falls in or maybe a little bit of dry skin particles from milking on the foam. Should I worry?


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## jasonmtapia

Oh by the way do you freeze extra milk in those quart jars?


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## Greylady

Right now we are hand milking. First we clean the udder with chlorohexidean mix and wipe down with baby wipes. Then milk a couple of streams to check milk. We milk into cleaned sterilized stainless buckets with a men's white hanky rubberbanded on top. We have used floursack towels also. This keeps the dirt /hair from falling in while milking. We then strain into jars and into the freezer to cool down and then refrigerated. We also freeze in plastic milk jugs and did so before we dried up does for keeping our milk supply till the does kidded again. We will be going back to using our machine as soon as we have the new milk room finished.


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## jasonmtapia

Thanks for the info. This sounds like what we have done. I like the hanky idea. Do you use it as a filter? Are you ever concerned about problems in sterilizing gallon plastic jugs? My wife wanted to do that last year and I wouldn't because I was worried we could not lean them well enough before use. Also I know Novlisan can be used as a teat dip, can you use it as an udder wash? Like I said right now we use warm wet rags and baby wipes


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## swgoats

I freeze milk in the plastic quart freezer containers. The same kind I milk into. They are the box kind with the colored lids. They are usually sold near canning supplies. They stack well in the freezer, so don't take up as much space. 

When I milk I knock off any hair and dust from the udder. A stray hair or two doesn't bother me, I just strain it out. But you can strain as you milk too if you are concerned. We have used raw milk for years. We've fed it to infants and our special needs child. I trust it more than pasteurized. The beneficial bacteria in it keep the nasties at bay. The reason for commercial pasteurization is nasty milk handling. I wouldn't want to buy raw milk at the grocery store. But I know how my milk has been handled. Rapid cooling is the most important thing for flavor. Milk that is cooled too slowly can taste goaty or off.


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## Greylady

The hankys fit right on the top of the milk pail with a rubber band, filtering as we milk to keep dirt and hair out. Once in the house we use the round filters to strain into jars/plastic jugs. We freeze in plastic jugs as we had the jars bursting when froze. We use our milk raw. We do not reuse the brand new plastic milk jugs. We have a spray bottle with the chlorohexidean mix to spray and clean the udder and teats. Then wipe down with baby wipes. Milk and then spray again and let dry. After having a bout with mastitis, this has been the way we do and it has worked well for us.


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## tlcnubians

We wipe the teats with Wipe Out udder wipes and milk into our machine, using an online filter so there's no need for extra filtering, etc. After milking the does' udders are stripped and teats sprayed with Fight Bac. The milk that we strip out of the udders after they're emptied by machine is filtered using a stainless steel funnel with filters made for it (purchased from Caprine Supply many years ago) and refrigerated for use in soap and lotion making. For house milk, we put the machine milk into cleaned quart glass milk bottles (reused and sterilized glass Promised Land Dairy bottles) and cool it in the freezer for 30-45 minutes before putting it into the refrigerator. Cleaning of stainless steel milk pails is done with Dawn dish soap and hot water. Milking machine and lines are rinsed with cool water followed by hot chlorox water. The does' udders are kept shaved using a No. 50 surgical blade since we also do a lot of showing.


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## swgoats

I don't think we've mentioned - to put the first squirt in a strip cup or elsewhere, not in your milk pail.


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## hmcintosh

I like to mix my own udder wash ( a drop of blue dawn soap, little bit of bleach and hot water) I use scott paper towels dipped in the udder wash to clean the udder. I also use this same mix to use in my teat dip cup. The one that doesn't let the teat dip go back in the bottle after using. I bring the milk in the house after milking and strain and then quick cool for 40 minutes in the freezer in my glass jars. If we are drinking it I use glass if I am just freezing it for bottle babies I reuse plastic jugs. Hot water can clean out a plastic milk jug pretty well. So far I don't panic over reusing plastic. The way I look at it everything we do now days is slowly killing us in some way


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## jasonmtapia

Thanks good info. Only dawn dish soap? No problems with milk stone or...?


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## boliodogs

When I went to visit our nearest goat dairy, the inspector had told them to turn up the water heat 3 degrees. Reason, if its not hot enough it wont melt the milk fat off the equipment for cleaning. I thought that is a good idea and do the same. I like a machine but still strain the milk even if it looks clean. I like the no water rinse that is the final dip for clean milk containers that have been washed, and after the dip, are then dried upside down so no moisture is left to breed bacteria. Like the above people, I am setting up a separate milking area to get all these jars out of the kitchen and have a place to hang stuff where it will dry correctly.


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## nightskyfarm

Please do not give false info where regulations and inspectors are concerned unless first hand; you are under those regulations and are inspected. As far as the hot water is concerned, no household water heater will heat to the required temperature. My hot water is 164 degrees to meet my inspector's needs. There can still be milkstone buildup and you still will need acid wash to remove it. Milkstone harbors bacteria which is why it needs to be removed. Bleach and a regular acid rinse are necessary to maintain your equipment and keep your animals healthy too.


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## jasonmtapia

Re last reply from night sky, I read to rinse first with cold water so milk proteins don't cook on. Then go to dairy soap. As an alternative I was wondering if I could first rinse with cold water, second lightly wash with white vinegar as an acid (we have real hard water) then rinse again and then go to the dairy soap. I have tied this the past 3 days and the stainless equipment seem to be more shiny. So I assume the vinegar is removing the milk stone. What do you think?


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## boliodogs

nightskyfarm said:


> Please do not give false info where regulations and inspectors are concerned unless first hand; you are under those regulations and are inspected. As far as the hot water is concerned, no household water heater will heat to the required temperature. My hot water is 164 degrees to meet my inspector's needs. There can still be milkstone buildup and you still will need acid wash to remove it. Milkstone harbors bacteria which is why it needs to be removed. Bleach and a regular acid rinse are necessary to maintain your equipment and keep your animals healthy too.


I was not giving false info etc. I am doing what others here are trying to do, be helpful. I am not an inspected dairy and make no pretentions in that direction. I said I VISITED a dairy and that is what they were talking about. I found it interesting and thought it was a good idea to make sure my water heater wasnt just doing luke warm. I use Dawn and bleach when needed and also have the required dairy soap, and brushes,which I use as well. I am drinking this milk and I dont like off tasting milk one bit. If its off after two days or so you are not clean enough. That is what I have gleaned from some of these discussions. I am here to learn and hope to help others in that direction. I also am using Amber glass which protects the milk from loss of vitamins etc from light. Dairy glass is better for cooling and keeping cool, IMO. PS Nightsky, I am a raw milk drinker and only heat milk up for yoghurt or cheddering. When I get the money I will probably move out of the kitchen and build all the stuff I wish I had for this. However, in the mean time, like most people, I endeavor to keep it clean and wholesome. Best to you and all your dependents.


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## nightskyfarm

You need to do your first rinse with warm water not hot and then dump that water along with all the bacteria. Wash with hot soapy water, then cool acid. Sanitize with hot bleach water before milking and reserve that water for your warm rinse after milking.


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## nightskyfarm

Hi There Guys!
My name is Jennifer Downey and I own and operate a Grade A dairy milking goats and Jersey cows. I have raised and milked goat for over 30 years continuously. I process my milk into cheese and also into soap. I moderate this section. I am emphatic about putting forth first hand information particularly in regards to regulation. Regulations are specific with minimal gray areas. I will comment if regulations are improperly used to support a point. I live and work with Grade standards and regulation daily it is a pet peeve of mine. It does not mean I agree with all of them; it is what it is. I am also a great proponent of raw milk. I pasteurize my milk because I am required to in order to sell my cheese. Is there room to learn new things? Of course there is! But, some things and methods are etched in stone particularly with clean equipment, clean milk and healthy animals.

The dairy is my livelihood and a family run operation, no one works off the farm. It is me and 2 children. So, this is near and dear to my heart. If sometimes I come off sounding stern it is because this is my life.


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## refamat

*Milking and cleaning*



jasonmtapia said:


> Thanks for the info. This sounds like what we have done. I like the hanky idea. Do you use it as a filter? Are you ever concerned about problems in sterilizing gallon plastic jugs? My wife wanted to do that last year and I wouldn't because I was worried we could not lean them well enough before use. Also I know Novlisan can be used as a teat dip, can you use it as an udder wash? Like I said right now we use warm wet rags and baby wipes


I'm reading a lot of conflicting ideas here. On one hand, people want the natural unpasteurized milk, but use commercial products such as baby wipes and novasan. Both of these products contain chemicals you do not want to drink, they might not kill you in small amounts, but will add to the chemical mix found in processed foods for which they have no long term knowledge about but do have hints at about being bad for long term consumption. And besides, they are a costly addition. Dairy bleach (dry powder) can be bought from the dairy co-op stores and will sterilize all your equipment (use it in your dish washer and a small amount in warm water with a clean cloth will clean udders just fine, just make sure the amount is not going to hurt that tender skin!), if you are not sure about laundry bleach, which is the same product, just in liquid form and costlier in volume. I would use a good unbleached cloth for filtering milk as you milk the animal, that way you don't have commercial dyes in the mix. 
If you wanting to be self reliant, get away from the commercial goop, if your wanting a self supporting small herd operation, check out what they do at dairy farms and what they have at the dairy co-op store.

Just my 2 cents


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## Eric Seely

*Milking & cleanness*

We got our goats over the last 5 years, started with one, she delivered one, and now we have 4 females, a billy and 6 kids. We have learned how to clean and prepare the milk for grade A quality. We use a bucket of warm water with a few drops of Dawn soap and a wash cloth to bathe the udder well first thing, removing any residual urine and poop. Then we use a mix of 1 drop of blue Dawn and 2 Tbsp of bleach in a quart of water to second wash the udder and nipples. We use the same wash cloth in the bucket of water to wash all the goats udders, sometimes rinsing the cloth with the hose between dips back into the bucket when it loads up with poop. We make every effort to get the udder and nipples very clean before wiping with the Dawn and bleach mix; we also reserve a 3 oz disposable cup of the mix to dip the nipples after milking. We got that info from fiascofarm.com.
We have a steam table size stainless steel pot that holds about 1-1/2 gallons of milk, it is sterilized with dawn and bleach and hot water before using. We have sterilized 2 "Blue Ice" packets frozen before we begin milking that we place in the stainless steel pot. We pour the milk into this pot with the blue ice as we milk each goat into a smaller container like a glass wine carafe, and nowadays we use the Udderly Easy milking machine, (we bought from pbsanimalhealth.com for a reasonable price) because it is too tiring to milk 4 goats by hand and next year we will probably have another 4 goats to milk. Now the blue ice starts cooling the milk immediately and that is the key to getting grade A milk. The faster you cool it to below 40 degrees F the higher the quality because no bacteria has a chance to grow. When we are finished gathering the milk we immediately put the milking pot with the blue ice into the freezer for a while until it is below 40 degrees F. We then strain the milk through about 4 layers of cheese cloth the remove any unwanted hair or whatever into a gallon container. If we are going to save the milk to use after the goats have dried we just put it into a deep freezer. Otherwise we use it to make cheese or yogurt. Making cheese we use the raw milk and to make yogurt it is best to pasteurize the milk first. We are very confident in our milking methods after having researched the subject to great extents. We consume the raw milk regularly, drinking and on cereal whenever we want. Frozen milk can be thawed in the refrigerator, about 3 or 4 days until all the ice crystals have melted and then can be used after a little shaking for whatever you want. Realize that Grade A milk is parasite free and free from bacteria that can make you sick. We also regularly give our goats a dewormer to insure that the milk is free from parasites... Check out fiascofarm.com for more on deworming.


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## smithurmonds

Goatkeeping 101 has all the info you need on deworming.


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## nightskyfarm

Might I suggest using NSF approved Rapid Cool sticks instead of Blue Ice gel packs which are not NSF approved for insertion into food. Also, cleaning udders with the same cloth spreads bacteria from one doe to another. Another suggestion is a spray bottle and single use paper towels. I do not put bleach on udders it is drying over time. I make my own pre and post teat dip with hydrogen peroxide, apple cider vinegar and my own goat milk liquid soap. I only use bleach water as a sanitizing rinse for equipment and to dip machines in while milking. Machines get dipped after each goat. For straining milk I would also suggest a disposable milk filter instead of cheese cloth. I have even used Bounty towels and they work very well. I am a Grade A dairy, please don't toss around standards if you are not governed by them.


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## refamat

Regulations standardize the industries, and protect the consumers from products they buy (when the regulations are followed). Don't misunderstand what a homesteader or hobby farmer uses for what can be sold to the public. USDA is corny, but are run by lawyers who don't know anything about milking a goat, cow, or yak. 
The best example of how they protect you, the consumer is with asbestos. Only about 5% of the asbestos ever used in products was the kind that causes cancer. But, because most people don't know how or where to send off samples for proper identification (especially lawyers who do not acknowledge that any geologist has the schooling to be able to set up a lab to identify asbestos), so the lawyers made the law read any asbestos is dangerous! They do not, however, state that silica dust, seashell dust, and other mineral based dusts can cause the same cancers and other lung diseases. 
So, when someone says the regulations are thus, and you know you can do the same thing with xyz, don't be upset if the USDA inspector says that is not allowed by the regulations. You can ask them if they are looking into alternative substances, but to clean out glass or stainless milking equipment, stick with the really hot water, good bleach and acid in the proper concentrations to get your gear clean. The inspectors may or may not know how to convert the mole strength of vinegar (which is around 5% normal if I remember right, but I'm just a geology major) to that of commercial cleaning acid purchased from the dairy store co-op,etc. Liquid bleach is the same bleach, but the concentration can vary from 3% to 6% in grocery store varieties. Hard to convert to proper concentration when the values given can vary depending on brand of grocery store bleach.
The inspector is not there to help you with short cuts, they are there to certify you are following regulations. Don't argue with them, You can ask questions on the best way, but understand they are restricted in saying what is approved. They do know where, who, and usually when for supplies, so do not miss out on what information they can tell you! They are also not there to be your friend, they are doing their job.
Otherwise, readup, take classes, visit other operations, and enjoy that goats are no where as heavy as a cow or yak and eat far less also! 
My two does enjoy coming in for their evening milking (what goat doesn't like to get grain and alfalfa), and enjoy the blackberry leaves so young and tender right now. Making cheese for our own consumption and soaps to sell are our goals, in addition to clearing land of thimble and black berry plants and other plants so that we have good pasturing in the future. 
Lots of good information here, thanks.


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## Nuttynanny

I started using a machine last month. Have been cleaning it with cool water, then with warm to hot water with the clorox, then one last rinse with warm water. Never had any off tasting milk, and the milk stays fresh in glass jars for about 2 weeks. I try to use mostly fresh milk and when it gets ahead of me I make yogurt or ice cream or cheese. I freeze in glass jars as plastic is porous.


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## MF-Alpines

Rapid Cool sticks....I'll have to google them. Thanks, Jennifer. Normally I don't worry to much about cooling to regs as it's just for us, but now that the weather has warmed, that sounds like a good idea.


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## MF-Alpines

Eric Seely, I don't want to offend you or anything, but if your does are coming in with that much muck on their udders that you need to wash twice, you need to clean your pens.


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## refamat

*cleaning equipment*



Nuttynanny said:


> I started using a machine last month. Have been cleaning it with cool water, then with warm to hot water with the clorox, then one last rinse with warm water. Never had any off tasting milk, and the milk stays fresh in glass jars for about 2 weeks. I try to use mostly fresh milk and when it gets ahead of me I make yogurt or ice cream or cheese. I freeze in glass jars as plastic is porous.


Flushing milk out with cold water might seem prudent, but it can also harden fats to the walls of equipment. Tubing is the worst since flow slows down at the walls while toward the center velocity is much higher. For short lengths, a brush is easy to use if large enough, but for small tubing not much but pipe cleaners fit. Therefore it takes really hot water to loosen and mobilize the fat that cannot be seen right off, the clorox has to be strong enough in concentration to effectively do it's job (which is why they sell a commercial bleach and acids for cleaning equipment as they know this works when directions are followed), It will build up over time if you don't get it off.


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## Rose

Don't hydrogen peroxide and vinegar negate each other?


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## nightskyfarm

http://www.stepintomygreenworld.com/healthyliving/apple-cider-vinegar-bacteria-virus-killer/

http://www.michaelandjudystouffer.com/judy/articles/vinegar.htm


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## nightskyfarm

All I know is that it works for me. My animals are healthy, the milk is clean, SCC levels low and it's not expensive.


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