# Doe in labor



## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

We have a doe (4th or 5th F) who is in labor. I have been reading up on everything about kidding on this site for the last few weeks but still had a question just to make sure everything is going normal. 
While I have delivered countless animal babies of other species, I've only been present for one other nubian kidding and I think it was quite abnormal so I'm not really sure what to compare to. 
This doe did not eat this morning, she keeps scratching the ground, laying down, sitting up (like a dog), then standing back up, backing up to a wall, walking a few steps, scratching a little more, and then repeating. I haven't really seen her bear down and push but she has made a few quiet moans and curled her upper lip along with her tail going from flopped to the side to standing straight up for about 10 seconds, then flopping back down again. Her ligaments are basically non existant (to be expected) but her vagina doesn't seem swollen or enlarged at all and she has only had one tiny droplet of "goop". Tomorrow is the due date I was given when we purchased her a couple of weeks ago. 
Does this sound "normal"? How quickly should things advance? I have gone in and done a pelvic and she doesn't feel very dilated at this point. 
She is absolutely huge and even though I don't particularly want many babies, I'm hoping she is carrying 3 or 4 normal sized babies rather than 2 monsters. 
She has been doing the above description for about an hour and a half now. At times when she lays down she also seems to stretch her back leg out and arches her neck very high (contractions maybe?). She isn't rubbing her belly on anything or laying down hard "bouncing" the babies. 
Any advice, input appreciated! 
Thank you!


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Hi Jessica, 
check her every 1-2 hours. And wait. Make sure to dip hooves and navel. BoSe too and some Vit E sqeezed in the mouth. As a fifth freshener she should be able to kid relatively easy on her own. Make sure you have you kit though cause sometimes you have to go in and rearrange them silly kids. Now when you've seen her mucus, a big plug, then you watch even closer. She is just reving up for you now with that little teaser mucus 
When she is in definate labor and has not done anything for oh, twenty minutes, I would go in to check her cervix. Please don't let does strain on and on for hours.
Tam


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

Thank you so much Tam! 
That's basically all I needed to hear was that this IS in fact normal and we are just waiting for more progression. After hearing (well, reading, lol) the stories of how important it is to not let things go on, I just needed a little reassurance that it wasn't one of those cases. 

I've got everything I think I need on hand - 
CMPK, BoSe (1/4cc per kid correct?), both vitamins for kids, iodine for hooves and cords, bottles, nipples, towels, blankets. 
Might be forgetting something but I THINK I have everything ready to go! Just waiting patiently now!! 

Thank you again!


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

I would check to see if her cervix is open. In my experience, the things you are describing means possible malpositioned kids. I've had does that weren't pushing until the babies got rearranged into the proper position. Sitting like a dog doesn't sound normal to me.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

"I have gone in and done a pelvic and she doesn't feel very dilated at this point." Jessica 

If she's not fully dialated she can't push a kid through the cervix. In some severe copper deficiencies does can get a "ringwomb" effect to their cervix. It will be hard, not squishy and flexible. If she's squishy and flexible she's not a "ringwomb" and breath. 
I have heard of does sitting on their hindquarters even out of pregnancy, so I have no idea if its normal or not, I call it being a goat-just like their need to paw at metal stuff like stairs.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Oh, good I didn't see that she had done a pelvic. Then all is well. Exciting time!


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

She is repositioning the kids. If there is a litter it will take some doing. Mine do it for most of a week before starting labor. She should start streaming mucous before you notice much actual labor other than lining up. Keep a close eye because if she does have multiples she may need you to untangle. Hope it is just a smooth as silk.
Lee


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

" Hope it is just a smooth as silk." Lee 
:yeahthat


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

Jessica, 

did you call here? Nadja said Miss Jessica called but she is not sure if it was you or my other friend Jessica.


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

You can call Mrs. Lusby at Crosstimbers Farm, they owned this doe for several years and delivered here , she might be able to tell you what is normal for her and what to expect. Sounds normal so far. Her daughter was a speedy kidder, went from stringy mucous to kids in no time and did not need much assistance.


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## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

So how are we doing now? There should be some progression by now.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

:tapfoot patiently waiting.


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## JamieH (Nov 29, 2010)

The suspense is killing me!


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

Well- as you said, she now has a streaming mucus string and seems to be progressing normal. She still hasn't pushed but is having definate contractions. 

Jana- must have been the other Jessica that called. If you have the Luzby's number, I wouldn't mind talking to them about Andrina or Snickers. 

Hopefully we will have smooth delivery! Thank you everyone! I will update as things go along!


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

Well- as you said, she now has a streaming mucus string and seems to be progressing normal. She still hasn't pushed but is having definate contractions. 

Jana- must have been the other Jessica that called. If you have the Luzby's number, I wouldn't mind talking to them about Andrina or Snickers. 

Hopefully we will have smooth delivery! Thank you everyone! I will update as things go along!


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

Not sure why that posted twice?? Sorry!


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

She's just waiting for it to get as cold as possible.


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

Yes I know! Don't they all! We're fixing to move her into a lighted heated area so I don't freeze! 
One other question- she has had NOTHING to eat or drink today. Her choice, not mine. She has her alfalfa hay, pellets and warmed water available. I offered her her normal grain this morning but she didn't have any interest in it. Should I be considering giving her CMPK or is this also normal?


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

This is JMO but I would do it. I never let them miss a meal. My does stand in front of the hay feeder in labor- dig awhile- grunt awhile - push out the kids and then get back to eating.
I firmly believe if that is not what is happening they are lacking something to make it so.
I would supplement. Have you checked for dilation again?
Are you going all the way to the cervix? It is NOT normal to go all day without eating even on birth days!
And not drinking is really a no-no. Can you warm some water and see if that helps? Oh sorry I see you did that.
L


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

What you are describing does not show that she is in any distress or having any difficulty yet. The cervix is opening up, in some it takes less than others. I left you a message that last year when she kidded at their farm they checked on her and she did not seem to be in active labor at all , then 30 minutes later had a buckling on the ground. I'd be checking on her more often. Lisa is not in right now, I spoke with Mike Lusby, but the number can be found on their website - Crosstimbers Farm. Alysha and I were getting produce at the Lusby's every other Monday so we got filled in on quite a few of the kiddings 


Hope all goes well, with stringy mucous and older doe I would not go to bed. Doe in labor that did not drink all day, I'd be giving lactated ringers and CMPK won't hurt. 

Jana


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

Lee, I see we were posting simultaneously


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

We have been sitting with her for the past few hours - no plans on going to bed until we have healthy babies on the ground and an empty uterus!  
I offered her grain again and she did eat most of it, then drank some. Still no interest in nibbling hay though. She just began either pushing or having very strong contractions about 5 minutes ago. If we don't have any feet in about 20 minutes, I will check her again.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Good going! I am sure she will wait for you to leave and then kid, laughing as does do


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

That's what I figure too so she's outta luck! I'm not leaving til she has them lol. Now that were in a barn that I can get warm she's stuck with me. We've had 3 hard pushes. More "goop" coming out but no babies yet. I've learned goats require patience, lol!


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

:yeahthat


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Mar 2, 2009)

How exciting, this is almost as good as being there. Please keep updating as you can!


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

Well, if you still have patience...you're doing GREAT!  I just read this and am feeling impatient. Have I mentioned that kidding makes me a nervous wreck? :/ LOL Will check back in 5 min. hehe...in the meantime I will keep warm, fuzzy, PINK thoughts for an easy delivery.


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

Ok- well the good news is we have 2 so far - one black with white spots and one brown with white spots. 
Thje bad news is they were soooo tangled up and the first one I had to pull tail first. Luckily the doe is quite large and had the room to deliver that way although I was a nervous wreck thinking he would get stuck. The second one plopped right out about 30 seconds later while I was drying the first one off. There is at least 1 more in there but what worries me is he feels HUGE. Please pray he's not as big as he feels and that he'll come out easily!


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

When this is all over, reread your first post. It's classic about what I warn about, a doe repositioning kids. As she was streaming amniotic fluid, a quick hand inside would have revealed that you didn't have teeth and hooves, and it's not that a kid can't come out tail first, it is that you can rip a cervic pulling out a kid tail first. A doe who gets up and down, sits like a dog, slams herself around getting up and down, rubbing on walls is showing you that there is a kid in mal presentation. If you fix it early, before she starts earnestly pushing all the kids into the canal, you can fix it easy, if you wait it could be a diasaster or a c section, and so many c sections in goats end in death of kids and the doe by vets who insist on putting them under. Congrats on the kids, get that last one out of there, watch for placenta/s, milk her some, make sure the kids eat, then come back and talk with us.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Congratulations! Thanks for the update!


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

Okay, we have 3! All spotted and perfectly healthy looking and very active. Waiting on placenta now. How long should this take? Its been about an hour. I have milked her enough to fill up a bottle and will be feeding the kids as soon as I get the last goat milked. 
Vickie- 
That's exactly why I was asking. I was worried that's the way things were headed but never having seen a normal smooth sailing goat delivery, didn't know what was or wasn't normal. Everytime I felt up until about 10 minutes before actually having to get all the way in and really push and try to turn that first kid around, nothing seemed/felt abnormal. As soon as she pushed 5 times and nothing came out, I felt again and that's when I could feel the kid's side. I couldn't get him turned around head first due to the second kid so had to go tail first. I'm hoping this isn't coming across as though I think I did nothing wrong - that's not how its meant. I'd love to know what and when I should have done something different. She seemed to go from the laying down, getting up, sitting like a dog, scratching description I mentioned in the first post with little to no goop to a lot of goop and acting perfectly normal for a few hours, then began having heavy contractions but still acting normal, no getting up and down or anything else, then started pushing. By the 6th push I was in and trying to get kid number one and two untangled and turned around. At the time of my first post, she was barely dilated (only 2 and a half fingers could go into the cervix). Is that when I should have been trying to help her turn kids around? Sometime in between? We have one more due in late February (a FF) so I'd love to know what to do better. I don't think the FF could pull off having kids like this girl did. The 3rd baby didn't come out "normal" either but it came out smooth and easy, just back legs first. 
I'm just happy to have 3 healthy babies and a happy, relieved, healthy momma. By the way, she is now eating and drinking great. Making up for earlier! 
Thank you everyone!


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## Lynn_Theesfeld (Feb 21, 2010)

Jessica,
Congrats!!! I have only delivered one, but was "checking" her all through labor "just in case" Don't know if that is "good" or not, but it worked for me, gave me something to do... Don't know if that helps, but you do know you are required by some DGI law to post pics now right? lol also more details bucks does a little of each? Can you tell I'm excited  Have a great night and get some sleep. I'd say you earned it!!


Lynn


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

Well I must be the weirdest goat owner ever! I know everyone else seems to check for boys or girls first thing. All I cared about first was alive? Healthy? Pretty colors! Okay, back to momma goat. Just checked while feeding (or attempting to feed is more like it). We have one brown with white ears and a ton of white spots doeling. One black with white ears, white crown and muzzle and a ton of white spots doeling and one brown, white ears, white crown and several large white spots and a few big splashes and black line down back ... Buckling! 
Not too bad if you ask me! The little black doeling took a few sucks. The other two just screamed like I was killing them. I squirted a little in their mouths and gave up. I'll try again in about 3 minutes. 
Is it okay for the doe to go back out with the other goats once I know she passed the placenta? 
Does she get anything other than dewormed? BoSe? 
I'm understanding I give these kids their shot now along with their vit E?


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

Glad you have healthy kids and mama. Yup, that would be a kidding that would try my patience! Nervous wreck. :/ I had one last year that did the extreme stretching. I will watch for it this year. Pawing and getting up and down are normal and some stretching, but this doe put her head against the wall and pushed against it and rocked back and forth. Yup, tangled up train wreck. 

Most does I worm and give them some warm brown sugar water. This doe that I mentioned above also got 1/4 cc of oxytocin (she had pushed so hard and was so exhausted that I wanted to make sure she delivered the placenta ok) and also got 5 cc of dex cuz she's a smallish doe and had two LARGE bucks in the birth canal at the same time and then my arm in her well past my elbow and I was worried about swelling. The oxy and dex would be judgement calls.

Kids get iodined, Bose, vit E, and some probios.


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

This poor girl had my arm up her to my elbow several times this evening.  I wondered about some banamine? She seems perfectly normal, like nothing ever happened. I offered her some warm gatorade water and some warm molasses water, she chose the gatorade. 
Guess I'll go give these babies a shot, try feeding them again and take some pics! Tomorrow will try to figure out how to post pics on here. 
Last 2 questions incase anyone else is still up. How long until the babies actually eat? How long until the placenta should pass?


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

Still up, but not sure how much help I'll be. Mine always seem to pass the placenta pretty quick. Are you sure you didn't miss it? Dogs around? Checked to make sure there were no more kids? Any signs of contractions/pushing?

Sometimes babies can be a pita to get fed right away. I've had late babies that I've tube fed just cuz I was totally exhausted and getting frustrated and figured they'd figure out being hungry in the morning.


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

Well that's what I'm about to resort to! She did pass the placenta about ten minutes after my last post. I just love how kidding makes an already lovely, sweet goat even that much more loving! Oh, and in my description of the kids, I had the 2 brown ones mixed up. Still a doeling and buckling, just opposite of their color descriptions.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Wow! Congratulations, Jessica. I'm so glad everything came out ok (no pun intended). I have to say, I, too, have been watching and waiting on this thread. First thing I checked when I got up this morning. Again, congrats!!!


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Jessica congrats on your new kids- glad you were there to help but just for future reference I am sure you know you want the smallest presentation possible so if you go in and feel a tail try to press back enough with cupped hand on the pelvis to make room to get your hand past the hips to where you can find and bring rear legs up and around so the kid is presenting feet first like your last kid. This assumes you don't have other kids piling up behind to prevent manoeuvrings. This is why the caution about not waiting too long. It is individual and you will have to learn by doing but you are right that older does can do this with less stress than young ones. The pulling on the tail is not good for the kid and so watch that one for problems standing. The crook in the back leg- the hock can catch on the cervix if you are not guiding and just pulling and this can cause tears. 

I personally would have fed the kids colostrum as soon as she was not actively birthing. Milking a small amount to offer in a bottle even tho dam raising just to jump start them. 
Milking right away will help continue contractions to pass the afterbirth more quickly and clean out all that bacteria you placed in there repeatedly. 

Keep an eye on her for odd behavior since you did have a breech and pulled it as there could be tears you will not know of except by her behavior. Watch her appetite and water consumption since she was off food for so long you will need to get her started back on roughage. I would limit grain until she eats alfalfa pellets or hay. You are risking the spiral of acidosis just letting her eat grain with no bulk. If you have beet pulp now is a good time to offer that as well.

Hope all is well this morning! I would give her time to recover before putting her back with the herd. We have kidding stalls they stay in with kids for about 2 weeks going out to graze but getting a place where they can totally relax with no challenges from herd mates for food or complete undisturbed healing sleep. I don't know your set up but if you have a space she needs to rest and relax a bit and then go back to exercising. Speaking of which...confinement in the last part of gestation is often to blame for mal-positioned kids. Does should be trafficking with the herd and getting as much activity as earlier in pregnancy albeit at a slower pace. This is part of what gets the kids moving and also keeps muscle tone primed for delivery. 

That screaming instead of latching on when introducing kids to teat is selenium deficiency.
Get some into them as soon as they are dry. 1/2 cc here but others do differently in other regions. You can do a pea sized lump of the gel wiped on the tongue as soon as they are dry and up if that is what you have on hand but if they do not start avidly eating by morning do it again.

You did great-take a nap!


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## mathewsfive (May 2, 2010)

prairie nights said:


> i'd be giving lactated ringers and CMPK won't hurt.
> 
> Jana


What are lactated ringers?


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## carlidoe (Jul 30, 2010)

Congrats!! The descriptions of the babies are adorable. How exciting!


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

Jessica - congratulations on the kids  Give Andrina a big hug for us, I hope she is doing ok this morning. Glad you were able to get all the help you needed here, and please don't hesitate to call Vicki (unless bright morning hours) - she has been a tremendous help with our kiddings and very generous with her time and advice. 

Jessica M. - lactated ringers is an IV solution to be given sub Q, I'll show it to you when you come


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

And, no, you are not a weird goat owner - I think most people check if the kid is breathing, moving and to get them dried up first. I often dont find out until I get back to the house since kids take the babies inside to dry them and I stay with the doe.


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## mrs.h (Feb 1, 2010)

Hi, if you look at the top of the topic list you will notice a "2011 Kidding Record" topic. We would all love to see your babies! And then you can go back and look at their pics every time you come here and see how much they have grown! That goes for every one else who has new kids too! And *NO* I am not a *junkie*! (well maybe a little :blush2 )


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Congratulations! You are getting experience with problem kiddings and you have done well. Those kids sound beautiful.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

I guess maybe I am rather calloused to the birthing situation but the FIRST thing I do is clear the nose with a clean cloth and then I check sex. This only takes a swipe of your hand or lift of the leg and how can you not know if you are helping to dry??? I check right away because in a busy or difficult situation I am going to give my attention to the doe kids. My does often plop kids out in rapid succession and act like they don't know it is happening while they focus on cleaning the first born to the exclusion of the others who could suck fluids with first breath so I go for the nose and get head clean and in that time frame determine sex. There are too many bucks in the world and they are not my prime turnover for income to support the herd and often they are much stronger than doe kids as well so the doelings will get my attention and mom can clean the bucks up unless it is a buck kid that has been reserved. But I always attend birthings alone so that may be part of it. Are you breathing? What sex are you?


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

Lee, 

I think the last sentense says it all. I have 3 helpers and while the first one took kid # 1 into the house (kidding in a cold open sided barn in December) wrapped in a towel, the second child was already waiting with a clean towel for the next kid  With hubby gone for now that's the way we do it and it's been working so far. One child (usually my oldest) stays in the house with babies feeding colostrum, my son usually runs between the house and the barn giving me updates on kids and checking to see if I need help with anything else, brings supplies, meds that need to be warmed up, etc. 

I'd be definitely attending to does over bucks if assisting single handed and have 3 or more coming at me at the same time. Bucks can always wait


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

I agree with Lee, checking sex after wiping nose.. I have ND's who often have quads and give my time and attention to doe's. Last yr. doe had quads, her line always has the calicum issues,, big time milkers.. well I was working on two does, and just laid the buck kids aside, they most likely would have died had my hubby not come home and helped.. It is cold and hard, kind of.. but have to have them support the farm and there are way to many bucks.. to many people keep bucks of questionable confirmation and such.. In my years, I have only kept two kids as bucks, after seeing what dam and kids are like.. they get wethered and butchered.. 

Congrads on the new kids and helping them you did great..
Barb


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## Xtra (Jan 1, 2010)

CONGRATS on your healthy babies!


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## DostThouHaveMilk (Oct 25, 2007)

I wipe off noses as they are born, then immediately check gender. Girls are whisked out of the pen and onto a bag to be dried off (if there is time). At the very least they are wrapped in a towel.
Usually there are two of us here but not always.
Since we Prevention raise most doelings and leave bucklings/wethers on does, I need to know ASAP what we have.
Here, the bucklings are part of the income, so they get as much work as the doelings. Though they do tend to be stronger at birth and they usually have a dam cleaning them up. So the doe and I double team the kids.

In the future, if you have a tail presentation and need to pull the hind legs forward remember to cup your hand over the hooves as you pull them around. This will prevent tears in the uterus from the hooves. They are soft, but can still damage the doe if you just whip them around.
Talia had a tail only presentation (corrected), then a head only(corrected), then a hind leg presentation. First malpresentations of the season. Admittedly, we aren't that far into it. lol


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

Everyone seems to be doing wonderfully this morning. Kids are staying in the house, mom is in her own stall eating and drinking away. I tube fed the kids last night/this morning. They did get their BoSe shots about 2 hrs after birth along with vitamins and probios. They will suck on anything (my fingers, my chin, each other, etc.) Except for the dang bottle! I've tried both the little screw on pop bottle nipples (pritcherts I think?) And the pull over pop bottle nipples. Neither appeals to them apparently. Any suggestions? The doe is CAE-, we just got our own tests back on her about a week ago. Should I just put them on her? At least to get the colostrum for the next 12-24hrs? Will that make it harder to get them back on to a bottle? Its too cold here to leave them outside with the mom but I could take them out several times to nurse. Assuming they will nurse off her that is. 
We've rescued and successfully raised everything from orphaned puppies and kittens to horses, calves, deer, armadillos, etc. These stinking little goats are pushing to the top of being the hardest to get on a bottle! I've read some things that say just wait them out til they're hungry enough... Is this what you recommend?


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## Lynn_Theesfeld (Feb 21, 2010)

Jessica,
I would pick which nipple you want to use on them and just stick with it. With the bottle babies I had last year and the 2 I have had so far this year, it just takes patience and some time, but don't give up hope, they will get it  Just keep at it.
Are you raising them on prevention, or just bottle feeding them? I would think taking them from cold to warm several times a day would mess with their systems more then either keeping them warm or cold.


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

I guess I will keep trying with the screw on nipple. It seems to be for younger kids. 
Should I tube feed them again? Or just wait them out? I'm not on track to follow the 20 oz of colostrum in 24hrs at the moment. They are all up and active. Walking around really well. Have all peed and pooped. 
Should I give them more BoSe or is this a selenium issue?
I would post pics but can't resize from my phone.


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

Oh, we are planning to raise them on prevention along with the other kid we have. However, all animals have tested negative for just about everything other than G6S which I'm still learning about. Haven't tested them for that, not sure if we will or not. My point being, if the kids nursed their mom, it wouldn't be the end of the world to us. I just want them to eat.


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## nightskyfarm (Sep 7, 2009)

The nipple needs to be on top of the tongue. I open the mouth and hold down the tongue with my finger all the while putting the nipple in the mouth. Keep one hand under their chin, holding the head and use your other hand to work the nipple. The kid will probably scream until it figures out that milk comes out. Does are most times smarter than bucks. Keep working at and yes, if they are hungry it is better. I would not tube them again unless they are really weak.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Screams are just a good chance to get the nipple in their mouth. :yes Just get it in there and keep it in there despite their fighting.


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## NPgoats (Mar 18, 2010)

Have you tried giving them some selenium yet? That might be your problem. Reread Lee's post.

You said your kids were big babies so this may not apply...I had to fight with the new buckling I bought to take a nipple. He was premature and very small. I used a human baby nipple first then later I switched over to the grey goat nipples. Yes, I had to force him to take a nipple but it all worked out fine. Linda


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

They've each been given 1/2cc BoSe, got their vit E and probios. 
Thank goodness for the little black spotted doeling! She is our genius of our retards, lol. She finally got it and man can she suck when she figured it out! Then the buckling was pretty good and ate about 3 oz. The other doeling not so much. She is also the one that seems to be behind the others in playing and getting around... should she have another BoSe shot? 
I have been attempting since last night pretty much just as you are describing. And yes! What a blessing their screaming is for shoving that nipple in! 
I was about to lose all hope on all of them but at least the first doeling is a great eater now, the buck is decent, just gotta work on that other doeling!


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## abtowell (Nov 6, 2009)

Just a thought, we have had 2 of this doe's kids and still have one, which are now grown and mommas of their own. We never had any luck giving them pritchard nipples. I know that sounds nuts, but their mom's have bigger nipples so the rhinehart or the caprine nipples seem to work better on those does for us. i know any kid can learn eventually to suck any nipple, I am just saying having had this goat's relatives, and knowing her and her teats, you may have better luck with a bigger niple. We have yet to have one from this line not take a bottle on the second try. Most on the first. They may have gotten it down already but if not this may help. Also if you must get one from the store, the lamb nipple is the closest to what I am describing. Hope that helps, and congratulations, spotted kids on your first delivery, my children would be jealous.


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## Loden Farms (Dec 21, 2010)

Congratulations on the babies, spots, oh how I love spots!
I've bottle fed a few babies in the past, one of which I had to do like Jennifer said and hold the jaw and bottle with one hand and use your other to express milk from the nipple to get them going. At first they always act like you're trying to poison them, lol! We've always used regular (human) baby bottles and just made the hole a little larger in the nipple. It's always worked out great for us. Plus, it usually takes two human baby bottles to feed one baby (when they get a little bigger) and my two girls grab one bottle each, they LOVE feeding babies.
Good Luck with the babies! Oh, and if you'd like, you can email me the pics and I'll resize them for you.


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

Terra- Would be happy to email you the pics, thank you for the offer! I appreciate everyones help yesterday and want those interested to be able to see what we were working so hard for! 

Alysha, two of them get it now, the third still not so much.  I know some mentioned not switching them between different nipples which I agree with ONCE they start sucking on something. I'm willing to and have already tried just about everything I can on that last doeling. The other two are doing well on the pritchert nipples. And yes- you are dead on about the teat size! She sure is easy to milk though! We really love her. I have a lamb nipple that fits on one of those white plastic bottles (like for baby calves). Is that what you're talking about? The nipples that I have that go over the top of a bottle are actually quite close to the doe's size. I will try one of our son's old baby bottles. Maybe that will work. 

Can any harm be done by giving this doeling a second shot of BoSe? 

I was excited to see the spots too! So far all babies this year are very spotted and colorful. They are all so pretty. We're very happy new goat parents! I'm still partial to our other baby. I don't think I've ever seen a goat as flashy as he is.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Please Bo-se daily until they eat avidly.
General stupidity about eating is selenium. What birth order and position was the doe that is lagging?
Can you take her temp? If it is low try to warm her up- many times they don't get going quickly with out food right after birth and so body temp drops and appetite does as well. She needs to be very cozy all the way thru 101 to 103 before she will eat. Warm her before offering food.

Try boosting your other does a bit more before they kid since this doe is showing deficiency.


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## petey (May 1, 2010)

buckrun said:


> . Speaking of which...confinement in the last part of gestation is often to blame for mal-positioned kids.


Dang! Sure glad to know this! I just kicked mine back out onto the ice! Reading all of this post is making me gunshy, but I am sure glad for the info!


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

Thank you Lee. Do I give her 1/2cc each time? 

Their eating ability directly indicates their order although opposite on size. The little black doeling that is eating and doing so well was first and just barely the smallest. The second out and second best eater was the buckling, just barely bigger than the 1st doeling. The third out and last to want to eat problem child is the biggest doeling. 

Also Lee- do I supplement the other bred doe with BoSe now? How much? How often? She is due Feb 24th. 

We have only had these girls a few weeks but have put them on a good mineral since having them.


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

Petey- while exercise is important in all pregnant animals, its obviously not the only cause of malpositioned kids as this doe has been kept on over 2 acres with the 2 other does we purchased with her just before Christmas and despite her size and slow moving the last week (especially the last few days) she was fairly active. Waddled around most of the day. Waddled faster at feeding time.


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## petey (May 1, 2010)

Oh no! I didn't think it was the cause of all dystocias, but I didn't realize I was increasing their risk by confining them! It has been so icy out here, there is no graze whatsoever, and they fight with the sheep, so I slammed em in a stall. They are due in another week, so I figure they can skate around some, as long as they can exercize and stretch! Its been subzero a lot at night and I am just not looking forward to difficult births! LOL :crazy


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

I don't think anyone does! I know I don't! 

With all the ice, we normally (with horses and sometimes cows, not goats due to just getting them) do stall them. We figured we'd rather take the risks associated with lack of exercise than a slip on the ice and hard fall. Not sure what we'd do with the goats. Hasn't come up yet. Guess that's something each person would have to decide for themselves. 

On a happy side note- all babies are eating really well now and doing good.


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

Jessica, 

really glad the kids are well and eating


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

Me too! You know how thrilled I was with kids anyways much less ones that wouldn't eat!


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## abtowell (Nov 6, 2009)

The lamb nipple would work, I think but what I mean you can look at at www.thegoatstore.com, it is a rhinehardt nipple, or it can also be found on the non vac nurser. We just had better luck with those with bigger teated does. And yes, Andrina is a piece of cake to milk as are her daugthers. We use her daugther to teach our young kids how to milk on. If you can't milk this line you can't milk a goat, seriously. I agree with Lee though I think the stupidity is nutritional. I have seen 2 sets of kids out of this doe, with no eating issues, so I would try the nutritional avenue as well. If all else fails get someone to show you how to tube feed until she is eating consistently.

Hope that helps,


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

I did tube feed them all last night (well this morning about 2:30 before going to bed). 
They have all come around now and seem to be doing well now. 
Which of your does are related to her? I'm going to giggle if it happens to be my favorite of your girls! 
She is giving as much colostrum as the other two girls give milk and I can milk her out in about half the time. I love her! Snickers is also quite easy. Very quick and a lot of milk. 
Hopefully we won't have this problem with the last does kids. We'll have had her for 2 months before she kids. She's a FF and I've already started hoping for a picture perfect smooth delivery!


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## haeema (Jan 18, 2008)

Jessica:

Thank you for buying my girls. I sure do miss them but my son's health comes first. If I had a way, I would have come and helped you yesterday. Just be a good steward of the animals that God gives us and you will be richly blessed. Tell all the girlies I love them and give Snickers a special goatie kiss from me. 

Keep your wits about you and pray if you have problems. I'm only an e-mail or phone call away. 
I know that after all that has happened, my girls are in VERY capable hands. 

Yours in Christ,
Trudy


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

Thank you Trudy! As you know, we do love them too. They are all very good girls and we are blessed to have found you and them! I look forward to going out every morning (even though I'm NOT a morning person) just to see Snickers. She always acts sooooo excited to see me! Makes me feel special, lol. In 2 more weeks all the girls will be moved in together. I think they will all get along well. 
Oh, and I'm sure you know this, but one of the things I love about Andrina is that she hates dogs and is NOT scared of them! All my dogs quickly learned to stay 20ft away, lol. 
Pawnee is just the sweetest goat ever. She is Luke's favorite and is just so gentle and kind. I can't wait to start milking her. 
All of them are very cool in their own ways. They all have a home with us for quite some time (planning on forever!). 
Plus- what beautiful kids you bred them to have! What an added bonus! 
I know I've said it before, but I can't thank you enough! We're so happy with them.


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## Loden Farms (Dec 21, 2010)

Jessica, I just sent you my email in a message on here .


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

I just sent the pics. Thanks again for offering to take the time to resize and post them. Very kind of you! Sorry in advance to everyone for the pics not being great. My phone doesn't have the best camera and baby goats don't hold still very well! Hope you all enjoy! Thank everyone again for all the help yesterday and today. Hope you think it was worth it!


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## Loden Farms (Dec 21, 2010)

Jessica, I have not gotten the pictures yet. Did you click on the email or copy and paste it? Any chance you could have misspelled the email address? I'll check back in the morning.


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

I just clicked on it. I will resend and also send you an email without pics to see if you get it.


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## Loden Farms (Dec 21, 2010)

Lets see if I can do this right....

First Buckling... from another Doe

[attachment deleted by admin]


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## Loden Farms (Dec 21, 2010)

yea! I did it, okay, now to the other pics


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## Loden Farms (Dec 21, 2010)

Ok, here are the long awaited baby pictures. The light colored tan and the black are the doelings and the darker brown is the buckling

dance:

[attachment deleted by admin]


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## Loden Farms (Dec 21, 2010)

That little boy does look like Bambi :lol
Congrats again on the new babies, they are precious, thanks for sharing (I'm having Goat withdrawls, lol!)

[attachment deleted by admin]


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

Lol! That's his nickname for now. Thank you again for re-sizing and posting.  
Sorry everyone the pics aren't very clear. I'll take better ones in the next few days and post them on facebook.


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## Drycreek goats (Sep 8, 2009)

He does have baby deer sized spots how cool.


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## mrs.h (Feb 1, 2010)

Well if your just going to throw those two out, do you mind if I take them :biggrin !


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## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

Congratulations on all those beautiful babies. Yes, I too would just keep offering them the bottle. If you stick them on Mom it will be almost impossible to get them off and onto a bottle after that. How to bottle feed a stubborn baby was described well above.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Beautiful!


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

Actually, not that impossible. Not easy but definitely doable. We had several last year that came from dam raising farm and were transferred onto a bottle here, took a couple of days but worked well after that. Andrina is clean, you could dam raise the girls if you wanted to. Less work for sure


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

Jessica, kids are cute. Looks like you will have a nice colorful herd to start with  Let me know if you need help getting them disbudded.


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

<<All of them are very cool in their own ways>>

LOL, goats are addictive, aren't they? Ask anyone here


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## linbee (Jul 7, 2010)

Adorable - polka dotted kids - just love them!


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Mar 2, 2009)

Congratulations on three beautiful babies!


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

Thanks Jana! Help with the disbudding would be great. We've been looking at buying one but haven't yet. 
Not looking forward to the tatooing either.


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

Snicker's buckling reminds me of your Copper. We can have matching bucks.  

Yes the are addictive for sure but after this next kidding, we are done. No more goats for quite a while. We are very happy with the girls we're starting with. 

In 2 weeks, I plan to move Pawnee in with Eclaire, they're about the same size and Eclaire even let Myra beat her up so I don't worry too much about her trying to pick on Pawnee. Pawnee would never pick on anyone so Eclaire will be fine too. After a few weeks together, I'll move all of them into a bigger pasture together. Hopefully that will go well. Best plan I can come up with to get them all together as one herd.


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

Jana- I may need to call you and ask a question about Andrina later. 
Then, I'll probably be back on here asking everyone a new question, lol.


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## JamieH (Nov 29, 2010)

Adorable! I can't wait for mine to come =)


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

Jessica, 

we can disbud and tatoo at the same time, it's up to you. I am done with all mind and I did friend's kids the other day. 

I had a buckling born last year that was a Copper look alike down to the smallest details - completely unrelated, Copper was still in MS when he was born


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

What are the min and max ages of disbudding? Same with tatooing?


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## abtowell (Nov 6, 2009)

I wouldn't mess with maximum age unless you want to deal with scurs later, which i don't especially on does. When you feel nubs it's time to bring them to be disbudded, tatooing can be done at the same time and they will need a tetanus antitoxin shot with doing those two things togther. Hope that helps.

As for who is realted, we sold her older daugther who is coming 4 this year, she gave us triplets twice but wasn't show material. She had way tooo much milk, but was extremely easy to milk. She went to a dairy, good job for her. Arial is her daugther from two years ago and she os on our site. Her ME from DHI is over 3000lbs and I believe she can do it. She earned her star in all three catergoried this year, and gave us triplets. Andrina dam raised last year and was a good mom, so you do have a choice. I prefer bottling myself but when you are swimming in milk it's nice to have the choice. 
Those are pretty kids though, very nicely marked, perfect homestead babies, easy to sell due to the flashiness for sure.


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## countrycowgirl (Feb 6, 2010)

OCngrats on your beautiful babies!


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## countrycowgirl (Feb 6, 2010)

Sorry I meant congrats lol


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

Jessica, 

they need to be tattooed when their papers are sent in. You will need your herd tatoo assigned by ADGA first. Tattooing is not a big deal, it can be done on an animal at any age and it only takes seconds to do. I disbudded mine but will tatoo after they have their CDT shot series. That's when they will get registered.


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## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

We should have all the ADGA stuff taken care of by next week but I'm in no hurry to tattoo them if it can wait. 
All babies ate really well tonight. Yea! I was getting quite fed up with them... 
Jana- I'm going to write another post about Andrina... More of a hopefully haha story than a question. Make sure you read it!  
Thank you everyone for the help, advice, suggestions and good thoughts!


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