# Feed through Aureomycin/abortion prevention



## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

I would like to hear opinions and experiences of those who know something about using feed through Tetracycline/Aureomycin as treatment/prevention of bacterial types of abortion in dairy goats. I need to bounce this off for my own use, but I think this can help a lot of us, so I didn't want to PM Vicki or others, just make it a useful thread for all of us to see.

Reason for my question: I had a few abortions/returning to heat after tested pregnant and even though percentage wise I have no reason for panic according to my veterinarian, and also the stages of absorbtion/abortion were different indicating different causes, I still am worried (I tend to freak out the month before kidding breaks loose...). Also, I think throwing this on the forum can help a lot of us, so here's my case. 

I have about 60 does here on the premises, not all mine, I milk about 25 does for 2 other people (they arrived anywhere between March and June 2012). Also 22 head 2012 kids and 3 bucks. I did buy a few does and kids this year (In September/October), as I am expanding my dairy herd. I have kept new purchases separate, but pens/pastures are in close proximitry of eachother, plus there are some escapees, cats, dogs walking around, so theres definitely a possibility that the quarantine was less than perfect. 

I had one doe abort 12/9 at about 2 months pregnant. Did not find anything but liquids, no fetus. This doe had severe pneumonia with fever a day/2 days later, was very sick, treated her and she's fine now. Other doe aborted 1/4 at about 3 months pregnant. Found liquids and cotyledons, no fetus. Doe wasn't sick and is still healthy now. Two does came back into heat about two months after confirmed pregnant. No signs of illness, all these does are healthy and cycling (and in one case likely rebred) as of now. Last doe aborted 1/16, a 4 month old fetus, looked complete, doe was healthy, did not come into milk. I decided to send in the last (and actually first) fetus plus piece of placenta to MSU (no results yet, asked to test for Q-fever, toxoplasmosis, Lepto and Chlamydia, plus whatever else they can come up with). 

I started prevention/treatment using top dressing of Aureomycin 2G crumbles to the entire herd. I have heard so many different dosages, duration of treatment, etc, and then I am questioning the process myself somewhat, too. I know some people feed the medicated crumbs standard during end of pregnancy but I always worry about medicated feed because of the damage it can do to intestinal bacteria (the good kind) and of course milk witholding (I do milk commercially).

Everyone's opinions/experiences please and I know we may disagree on some of the suggestions, doesn't matter, I want to hear it all, so we can learn something. In return, I will keep you guys up to date on what's going on here and on results from MSU. 

Thanks!
Marion


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## NorthOf49 (Feb 8, 2011)

*bump* 

I'm curious here as well. I've used the crumbles only once before and I don't remember how I got to the dosage. Sorry I'm no help!


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

Really? Nobody can give me some advice? Or is everyone just busy in the barn?


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

No experience with them at all, sorry. I know Vickie uses the crumbles.


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## nlhayesp (Apr 19, 2012)

I have used aureomycin in the past. When my first boer delivered dead triplet last week, I started again. This year, I bought a 50 lb bag and am mixing it in with my feed. I will use this on all the moms until we are done. I got lazy this year, I guess. I'm not saying that it would have prevented the stillborns, but I would feel better about myself if I had done it. We have sparrows nesting in the barn, and they are supposed to be carriers. I would much rather do auromycin than give yet another vaccine.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I have answered a hundred times, figured maybe someone else used it before.

The info on dosage is in goatkeeping 101, it's really close to what I do. I do not know how you are going to figure out milk withdrawal to get them off of the drugged feed, to coincide with milk sales. Vicki


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Marion, I was wondering if you heard from MSU yet. Glad you posted.

Here is the link Vicki is talking about. It talks about 4g crumbles.

http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/index.php?topic=1718.0

Doing a google search, the only thing I found was that it has 0 withdrawal for meat. If you look at other tetracyclines, there is a relatively short milk withdrawal, so I would guess it wouldn't be much.


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

Thanks Cindy, and other posters, I appreciate it. Sorry, I guess this is a thread that's going nowhere. I was hoping to learn something. I had of course already read everything what's in 101 and in posts here on DGI band elsewhere, I just wanted to talk about it and see if others have dealt with this situation. How exactly they treated, results in stopping the abortions, doing preventive now, etc. Also I would worry keeping animals on medicated feed 4-6 weeks at a time. 

The lack of willingness to to talk about something like this really disappoints me. This is exactly why we don't progress with dairy goats. If we don't throw the good and the bad (like I did here) out in the open for a good open discussion, then we're all just going to stay.........well, let's just say 'where we're at', because I don't want to be too unfriendly. For those who are interested: treated my whole herd for three days with crumbs (top dress), off for five days, then again for five days in a row and stopping now. MSU result of fetus was negative, will get more results later. 
Marion


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

We used aureomycin and CTC (chlora-tetra-cycline) as feed throughs. For most of the winters in new groups coming in, a group of yearlings who only had a 3 sided shelter back when we actually were still having winters, in our bucks every year for decades after breedings season was over, and in the one and only abortion storm we had. We used it long term, both mixed in, and as a premixed calf textured feed. 

If I was going to use something short term I would give tetracycline systemically in shots. Vicki


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

Thanks Vicki. I keep on hearing abortion storm, and don't really know what that consists of. More than 10% abortions? 15-25%? Worse than that? And if that is happening, will the tetracycline/aureomycin stop trhe process or will everybody pregnant lose that pregnancy? That's what I can't find anything about. Also, in that abortion storm, would that be all of the does aborting at the same stage, or could it be early (including absorbtions) and late term? 

I thought about shots (assuming that's what you mean with systemically) but tetracycline is such an evilly stressful shot, that I was worried it would put so much stress on the pregnant does (I think I'd have to repeat 2-3 times?) that that alone may cause some abortions.

It looks like it's all going to end well here from now, unless I hear something bad about the tissue tests, but the fetus was negative for all (common?) causes of abortion in goats.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Marion- I think you are looking at unrelated things and not a herd wide disease issue.
You have two cloud bursts- no fetus. Not disease but hormonally incorrect does.
Your 3rd could be from a bashing or many other reasons including disease but only in this one doe.
I really don't think you have a major issue with that many goats on hand and interactions - some are bound to result in abortions. If you were running a disease abortion storm the incidences would be more uniform (same stage of pregnancy and fetal remains to examine) and the lab could get a fix on it. 
You can get a toxo verification via blood testing the doe immediately after the abortion- she has it in her bloodstream.

I hope you can piece together an explanation that lets you relax and stop viewing this as an impending major crisis.
The two with no fetus are certainly not a disease. Testing showed nothing on the other. You have a very few unconnected bad endings. Out of 60 does that is not an unusual amt of problem pregnancies. 

Perhaps you can examine the stages of newness to your herd in the ones that reabsorbed and that could be the whole issue in itself. Look at each one for reasons other than disease and enumerate those potential causes and I think you will feel better. 
Lee


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

Well, I am going over this now, the stages of newness you mentioned and that gives an interesting result. The first doe (cloudburst type, no fetus) was one of the does that is not mine. She came here just for her lactation last year (2011 lactation), left to be bred and to kid 'at home' and then came back in 2012 with ther herdmates to be milked here again about 2 wks-5 wks after kidding. She was in okay shape when she came back this year, but the rest of the does from that herd were incredibly skinny. Took me a long time to feed those milkers up again, so that's why I asked the owner if I could just keep them and breed them over here: it would save her the hassle and I would have fresh does that were actually in the right condition to 'get to work'. So that's why they are still here (there's 16 of them). This first doe was the one that got the bout of Pneumonia 2 days after aborting. Almost lost her, but she pulled through, thank goodness.

Doe 2 (No fetus, just liquids and cotyledons) was one of my own. Then all the other ones (two reabsorbed pregnancies and the last one, late term) were all out of that group of 16 skinny does that aren't mine (also why I feel bad: not my does, wanted to make owner happy with some pretty kids). I call them skinny does, but they were in great shape by the end of their lactation and when I bred them. Still wonder now if the rough start to their lactation they had and their road back to being in good condition while also producing milk would have an effect on this current pregnancy... Of course again, the one doe was mine, and has always been in good shape, can't remember her ever being sick and she's a good milker, too. She's not agressive, but never gets bullied, because she does have a set of awesome Saanen horns :lol

Thanks Lee, analyzing this does help, maybe I can sleep tonight... :?


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## nlhayesp (Apr 19, 2012)

Trysta said:


> Thanks Cindy, and other posters, I appreciate it. Sorry, I guess this is a thread that's going nowhere. I was hoping to learn something. I had of course already read everything what's in 101 and in posts here on DGI band elsewhere, I just wanted to talk about it and see if others have dealt with this situation. How exactly they treated, results in stopping the abortions, doing preventive now, etc. Also I would worry keeping animals on medicated feed 4-6 weeks at a time.
> 
> The lack of willingness to to talk about something like this really disappoints me. This is exactly why we don't progress with dairy goats. If we don't throw the good and the bad (like I did here) out in the open for a good open discussion, then we're all just going to stay.........well, let's just say 'where we're at', because I don't want to be too unfriendly. For those who are interested: treated my whole herd for three days with crumbs (top dress), off for five days, then again for five days in a row and stopping now. MSU result of fetus was negative, will get more results later.
> Marion


It wasn't lack of willingness on my part to "talk" about it. (Should there be?) I was hesitant because I was using it based on anecdotal talk from someone who has done goats longer than I have. One year I had 3 goats abort late in gestation. Months later, I mentioned it to him and he told me about using auromicin feed. The next few years, I used it diligently. Then I got lazy, or the price was high, or my TSC didn't have it, etc. Then, I had a doe abort. So, I was back to using it. This year has been "bad" (in the house, not the barn), and my mind has been on other things. When I lost the triplets a few weeks ago, I was kicked back into herd-preservation mode. For me, it is easier to just mix auromicin with the feed in a feed bin (we store in 55 gallon trash cans).


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

Are the crumbles different that the soluble powder?


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## nlhayesp (Apr 19, 2012)

Crumbles are the antibiotic mixed with a crumble-type feed. It mixes well with whole grains and they eat it just as well; so I don't think it has an off-flavor to them. Besides, it is so dilute, they might not even notice. The feed bag says to feed "1 lb./50 head of sheep daily" for abortion prevention.


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

Nancy, you are not the only one going by advice from someone who just has goats longer than you do: we ALL do and that's our biggest problem. As a sector we are not big and profitable enough to have companies do a serious amount of research on dairy goats, so we depend on each other. THAT's why I want to exchange what we are all doing based on what we learned/heard so we can together figure out what is actually working best. None of us have enough goats to figure everything out, so let's work together. I thought that was what this forum was for once we are on here for a while and have the 'goatkeeping 101' down. It's all of us together, by discussing these things, who can create 'goatkeeping 201'.

The crumbles are basically pellets that mix well and almost all the does like them and eat them. The powder has the same med, but does not mix well at all in the feed, so don't use that for feed through. Also, on dosage, watch out: there's 4G crumbs and 2G crumbs (and your store is usually only going to have one or the other. I had the 2G and the bag said: 1 lbs will treat 30 sheep, so make sure you read the bag/label.


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## nlhayesp (Apr 19, 2012)

Trysta, I know what you're saying, but I really hate to give advice to someone if I end of being wrong! And, this man that has had goats longer than I have, I have learned not to take any of his advice at face value. This was after going in his barn with him and he made the off-hand comment: "oh, there's another boil to lance". He couldn't understand my panic, and said it was not a big deal, and he so no need to get it tested. That was the last time I ever went in his barn, and all of his past advice I am scrutinizing well.


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

Oh, wow, I get it, that is scary stuff!!!!! :eek


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## todog (Dec 10, 2011)

i don't think it much matters how long you've had goats, the goats will throw you a curve ball everytime. there are somethings that are constant and somethings are so different from goat to goat or instance to instance. i try to observe and then react.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

nlhayesp said:


> Trysta, I know what you're saying, but I really hate to give advice to someone if I end of being wrong! And, this man that has had goats longer than I have, I have learned not to take any of his advice at face value. This was after going in his barn with him and he made the off-hand comment: "oh, there's another boil to lance". He couldn't understand my panic, and said it was not a big deal, and he so no need to get it tested. That was the last time I ever went in his barn, and all of his past advice I am scrutinizing well.


But Nancy, we cannot be afraid to toss ideas around. We post what we've done and hopefully post what has and hasn't worked. And we learn who to listen to on the forum. 

And we also learn, from experience, that we cannot always listen to people that have had goats longer than we have just because they have had goats longer than we have. Pick and choose from the info that they say. This is what I do. Example: I have people that I've bought goats from and I do NOT agree with their feed management even though I may like their genetics. Who am I to tell them that I seriously need to copper bolus their goats! Or question their feeding program for bucks.

Don't be afraid of giving advice. Even I give advice, LOL! If we're wrong, it will be pointed out in no time. I think the thing with advice is it is dependent upon what WORKS vs what we may have HEARD from who know's where.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Nancy- there really is no reason to have to treat with a preventative for abortion continuously.
You might need to look at some other issues in management and conditions if just doing with out antibiotic feed gives you abortions. Have you put your bucks through an injected antibiotic cycle?
It really isn't something you should have to do every year. 
Only unusual circumstances like exposure from cats or a carrier buck should give you problems to treat for. If you are having abortions every year that you do not medicate....something is up.
Do you keep your rams apart? Have you treated them?
Lee


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