# How about Alpines?



## linbee (Jul 7, 2010)

I'm still working on which goat to buy......I went to a dairy farm thinking that I would be happy with the Nigerian Dwarfs. Then I saw Alpines. I know some of you have them - what do you think? Good and bad, please.


----------



## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

I love mine! I have no other experience keeping any other breeds, but I know when I've gone to shows, the alpines are the friendliest, hands down! I'm sure others will disagree with me.


----------



## ellie (Nov 17, 2007)

In general, they tend to be the first to fight, and personally I don't like the milk of most Alpines. And I grew up on Alpine milk. But then I have a very sensitive taster and prefer Nubian and Nigerian milk, hands down for the butterfat and protein (cheese and taste).


----------



## NPgoats (Mar 18, 2010)

I have Nubians and I like the milk very much. I also have an Alpine Nubian mix but she hasn't been bred yet, so I haven't had a chance to taste the milk to see if there is a difference. I enjoy my Alpine very much. She has a funny energetic personality. She seems to be more curious than the Nubians. 
Linda


----------



## kuwaha (Aug 22, 2009)

My first was an alpine - one of those $50 goats!!!! :/ - and was she ever wonderful :biggrin Since then I've had nubians, saanens and a nuMancha - I'd have to agree with Ellie, the milk from Nubians tastes better, but it's the numancha who is bossiest. The saanens were kind of mean - both had horns so they weren't here long....
My 2c = visit some more farms, taste the milk, practice milking, make sure they are disease free and horn-free.


----------



## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

I've had Nubians and Alpines. I liked all my Nubian milk just fine--they were both littermate twins, so they tasted alike. One of my Alpines has the very best milk I have ever tasted, one tastes very similar to my Nubians, and one (the FF) ...I'm not crazy about her milk--has an aftertaste if I don't include BOSS in her diet (but she's the absolute sweetest goat I've ever met, so...). So, while each breed has a certain amount of butterfat on average, the goats don't necessarily read those statistics.  So, I second the advise to visit farms and taste milk. My Alpines are very friendly. Everyone told me they would beat the snot out of my Nubians when they came, and nothing could be farther from the truth. While it may be true of some, mine are particularly sweet, I suppose. (Tracy culls for personality, so that's probably why.  )

I love that I get more milk in less hoof trimings. I love that they are quiet. I love their personalities--smart and sweet. They are great on the milkstand, even the FF. My bucks are really laid back and I actually enjoy them! Their kids learn how to nurse fast (Alpine kids took one day--Nubian kids took a week! They wore me out!) 

Negatives--they are much smarter than my Nubians were, which is nice in many regards, but it can be a drawback-- they will figure out how to unlatch gates and things more easily, and are more inquisitive, so you have to think ahead of them a little more. They also require shaving in the summer for the heat, even though I don't show. (but they don't stand huddled in a corner all winter, so that's a positive) 

For me, shaving is SO worth the peace and quiet I have found by switching breeds. Milking is ever so much more pleasant as well. They stand still, tuck their hips, and eat slowly. I'm not at the races and they like their job!


----------



## Hollybrook (Jul 17, 2009)

What happend w/getting Toggs?


----------



## Rose (Oct 26, 2007)

My full blood Alpine doe is herd queen. She is THE BOSS, and she'll let anyone know. She even gets angry if I milk someone else first and runs to the bottom of the pasture.

My full blood Alpine buck is a sweetie. Very gentle, very well mannered.


----------



## mill-valley (Feb 22, 2008)

I love my Alpines. I don't find that their attitudes are any different than the other breeds I've owned and I love how they milk their hearts out and come in all color patterns. I never could tell a difference in milk taste between breeds.

Biggest thing is personality changes a LOT from goat to goat regardless of breed. Taste has a lot to do with what the goat is fed and how the milk is handled. Find a sound, calm, healthy goat and you will enjoy her regardless of breed.


----------



## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Alpines can be nasty though. They can bite, bash, and stampede. I have found one thing with alpines, if they get a notion they don't like one of the herd--that individual needs to be moved before health problems arise. They can be merciless.
Other than that they are sweet, very personable animals. Well tempered on the stand and during handling. They do have a mischieviousness about them that I personally love Ours can talk through facial expressions, very readable Love love love our alpines.

Tam


----------



## linbee (Jul 7, 2010)

Hollybrook said:


> What happend w/getting Toggs?


I still think that the Toggs are the spiffiest looking goat, but I don't want the medium to long hair. It's hot enough where I live without adding the hair. Then, the thing about their milk tasting funny - heard that from several people.


----------



## linbee (Jul 7, 2010)

stoneyheightsfarm said:


> They also require shaving in the summer for the heat, even though I don't show. (but they don't stand huddled in a corner all winter, so that's a positive)


Do you have to do all over shaving? Maybe the ones I saw had already been shaved because I didn't notice that they were "hairy".


----------



## Rose (Oct 26, 2007)

My Alpines suffer the most from heat. I have to shave them in the summer.


----------



## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Linda, those that came as kids I shaved all over because they looked as if they really needed it. Those that came as adults and had already been shaved didn't ever look like they had to be, but I did it anyway, and they seemed to be much more comfortable. Talk to LeeAnne, since she has Alpines in your heat, too. If I had fans in the barn or something, it might not be necessary. Some folks use misters, but then some goats can't stand them. I have only shaved once this year and am debating as to whether or not I want to do it again before appraisals. So, as infrequently as it is needed, it's not that big of a deal. 

Tammy, I've seen Nubians who will bite, bash, and stampede, too, so I think it is a goat thing and not just an Alpine thing.  One (Nubian) farm I visited frequently before buying goats had a doe that would put my kids on the ground every time they went in the pen. Nasty jerk thought my two legged kids were goats and needed to know she was the queen! And from a farm that advertises "people friendly" animals--another good reason to go visit and see for yourself!


----------



## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Everyone is giving you really good advice. Someone mentioned health. Once you have picked what breed you're going to purchase (and of course, you can purchase more than one breed), PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, ask for health papers.

I know how it can be intimidating to ask about health papers for goats. And of course, the owners/breeders are going to say they are great, no problems. Maybe they'll say they were raised on "CAE prevention". NOT ENOUGH. Ask for papers PROVING they are CAE negative and CL negative.

I, along with others, have been though that (or are still going through it).

And again, I still think Alpines are the best! dance:


----------



## lorit (May 10, 2010)

I love mine! I love thier personalities! I think it all comes down to how they are raised - I've had two that I bought which weren't raised properly and they had to go. And the two that I've kept are joys. And the kids that I've raised so far are sweet and easy. I dam raise but spend LOTS of time with them so they are properly socialized.

We live in the northwest so could get by without shaving, but I did this summer cuz I thought at least once a year it would be good to get down to the skin and make sure all is well. 

So, as many have said, visit, ask lots of questions and make sure they are healthy. And if they goats come right up to you when you visit and want to be in your pocket, that is good.


----------



## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

I have one Alpine doe, Cambrell, and her 2 doelings. I had 18 at one time, but cut WAAYYY down the last couple of years. I've had nubians, Lamanchas, Alpines, Boers, even had a saanen at one time years ago. My favorite dairy goat is the Alpine. I just loved my girls. Cambrell, my darling doe, is just the sweetest thing. Her spoiled rotten babies are too. If you get an Alpine that is in milk, taste it first to see if you like it. Whatever breed you choose taste her milk because bloodline can have a lot to do with the taste.


----------



## Fiberaddict (Jun 4, 2009)

We have Nubians and Alpines......I love my Nubians. They are, to me, the perfect goat...but. Our Alpine doe out-milks both of them, she is much more curious, she's as friendly as a dog, and she doesn't melt in the rain. :lol I don't notice any difference in milk taste, and we make cheese out of pooled milk just fine. 

The Alpine buckling is very sweet natured, and quiet compared to our Nubian buckling. He's bigger, too - and only 3 weeks older. The doeling is fearless - she's decided that SHE needs her turn on the milkstand every evening, along with the actual milkers (the Nubian doeling, on the other hand, is a fraidy-cat, and won't barge into the milkroom. :lol )


----------



## linbee (Jul 7, 2010)

Cotton Eyed Does said:


> My favorite dairy goat is the Alpine. I just loved my girls.


You have the same hot summers as I do - do your Alpines handle the heat well? do you shave them? Also, that black & white goat on your website is very pretty!


----------



## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

Two of the local Nubian breeders added Alpines, last I heard the Alpine bucks jumped the fences, of course, into the Nubian pen. They seem very athletic. They also seem to have a large bone structure and tend to get bigger/heavier than the Nubians.

Linda, shaving is not a big issue and lasts a long while, we shave all goats here in the spring, they look better, you can take updated pictures for your website, the udders stay neater when shaved, etc. Alpine or what have you, don't let the shaving steer your decision. Once they kid and have the bloody discharge all over their hair, you will WANT to shave them, really. You will also want to shave all the urine off your bucks come spring 

I do not have Alpines, admire their conformation and beautiful udders at a friend's farm, but won't be buying any. Folks are hosing even their Nubians down in only 94 degrees, but again, plenty of shade, cool water, etc. will make a world of a difference. Folks from Texas can give you a better idea if they see the milk production drop in hot summers or not. 

Taste the milk for yourself, compare and decide, if the milk taste (richness) is a factor for you or not. 

Jana


----------



## adillenal (Feb 6, 2009)

Well, I rough clip all of my does in the spring to get rid of the longer hair for warm weather and I just think they look better and take the heat better. Regardless of breed.


----------



## Nana (May 12, 2010)

I just love my Alpines. They are so curious and have wonderful facial expressions. I think their milk tastes
wonderful when chilled with an ice bath. The cheese is good also. I also have a fainting goat but he is more
like a pig than a goat and eats everything in sight. His days are limited because I am going to eat him. My 
children think he should be a pet but I disagree. I thin he will have a lot of meat on him. :biggrin


----------



## Squires (Jul 23, 2010)

stoneyheightsfarm said:


> ...I'm not crazy about her milk--has an aftertaste if I don't include BOSS in her diet


What is "BOSS" ? A supplement or feed? What supplements or feeds improve the taste of the milk, and which ones make it taste "off"?


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

BOSS is Black Oil Sunflower Seeds. Improves fat, expensive fat  and is well known with it's scratch factor from the shells to be excellent added to kids feed for keeping kids on full grain from getting enterotoxemia (overeaters disease).

Most supplements are fluff


----------



## billinohio (Jun 24, 2009)

I have Alpines......and every time I go to a show......the experience re-afirms my decison.......just my personal preference.
Years ago I was on "circle test," and all the other membrs had Nubians. They all swore that Nubian milk was superior in taste, but they all said that my "Alpine milk," tasted just like their "Nubian milk."


----------



## Bernice (Apr 2, 2009)

I started with Nubians yrs ago and then switched to Alpines 14 yrs ago. Actually it was my husband who bought our very first Alpine.....the infamous Jackie! I fell in love with her and her obnxious personality, kinda like a "broad at a tea party" type. And then we got more.....and more Alpines. In my experiences the does with the evil personalities and not the bucks. The bucks are so much calmer and I've never had a evil buck. 
We live in the south and our Alpines fare in the heat OK, but heck, who can handle the nasty heat we've had this summer, 4 legged or 2 legged when it's over 100 out?


----------



## Ziggy (Nov 13, 2009)

I think the most important thing to note was said earlier "Biggest thing is personality changes a LOT from goat to goat regardless of breed. Taste has a lot to do with what the goat is fed and how the milk is handled. Find a sound, calm, healthy goat and you will enjoy her regardless of breed.
"

Billy Sue - if you want people friendly alpines or know someone who does you should come visit and see mine - You saw Kasandra at the Nationals and she can handle any of them including my biggest 5 year old doe who she loves to show.

We will need to reduce numbers and are going to be offering some of this years kids we were previously planning on keeping for sale so feel free to send anyone looking for Alpines my way please.


----------



## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

I've not tried any other means (cheaper?) of increasing the fat in their diets. I just thought of BOSS, and as little as I have to give, it's not that expensive for a treat. $22 a month for the whole herd. 

Ha ha, Ziggy, you spelled my name with a Y also.  Ziggy, mine are very friendly and sweet, but I got a call from a lady in NC not long ago--near Winston Salem--and sent her your way, don't know if she called or not?

I will say this about bucks: My Nubian bucks took a year and a half to realize they could jump a 4 foot fence. Once they did, there was no keeping them in. Thankfully they were scheduled to leave that week! My alpine bucks knew they could clear a 4 foot fence the day they arrived (at maybe 6 months old). However, after walking them back in their pens a couple times, they have not tried since. It's as if they learned that it wasn't allowed and are very obedient. We'll see what happens this breeding season, but they are no longer in a 4 foot fence.


----------



## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

And after having bucks for awhile I can tell you it doesn't matter if its nubian or alpine you can read their mood. I am sure its with any buck. If they are extremely feisty come back later. If Theoden, 264 lb alpine, won't come over and stand to be put on the clip, no way am I going in there. He gets in buck moods and will want to smash my hand against the fence. To me this means "I am in a mood". Whatever reason I was going to go in for just isn't that important to get hurt. Same with Ghengis Khan. For the most though you could actually go in and clip them. 
Tam


----------



## linbee (Jul 7, 2010)

What is the difference between French and American Alpines? and does it matter?


----------



## nightskyfarm (Sep 7, 2009)

French is your PUREBRED ALPINE and American is close but no cigar and never will be.


----------



## mill-valley (Feb 22, 2008)

Does it matter? Up to you...there is more selection for a lower price (in general) if you go American. There is really not much difference in quality between the two, there have been National Champions of each.

I personally prefer the Americans, I've had a French Alpine and I like the style of my Americans better.


----------



## linbee (Jul 7, 2010)

If someone says they have Alpines, what do they usually have? American? Probably if you have the French, you would note it.


----------



## nightskyfarm (Sep 7, 2009)

Not necessarily so. There are some very pricy American Alpine and some inexpensive French Alpine, it is just that the French Alpine is more difficult to locate and there are fewer breeders with quality stock. Americans you will find quite common and of excellent bloodlines all probably close to home. I love both my French and American Alpines!


----------



## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

I have American Alpines. While there are purists, there just isn't the purebred snobbery in Alpines like there is in Nubians, which I find refreshing.


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

But American Alpines have proven themselves to be a formidable breed onto their own, in so many ways surpassing their Purebred sisters. In the marketing of American Alpines as hardy, more milk, show ring etc...they should demand higher prices than the Purebreds do. 

American Nubians just want the herd book distinction gone so they can share in the profits to be made in Purebred Nubians without doing any of the real work. Big difference. Until American Nubians can show they would benefit the Purebred Herdbook they should not gain entrance just because it hurts their feelings. Vicki


----------



## Renegade59 (Mar 7, 2010)

We have Alpines, LaManchas, a Saannen and a Nubian. Personally we have found that the time you invest with the animals has as much to do with the animals temperament as anything. For us, each animal's milk has it's own unique taste, some sweeter and/or richer than others even though they are on the same feed. I agree with the others, spend as much time as you can with different breeds, taste their milk and milk them if you can. We love all of ours.......good luck!!


----------



## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

I have American Alpines and can vouch for their productivity and friendly inquisitiveness. Also, GREAT tasting milk. We dropped in production for a couple of weeks in this heat, but I think it was more due to an economically necessary feed change for a month or so. The girls are back up in production and ALL the kids are weaned, so we're about to start having a large amount of excess milk every day....need to sharpen up my cheese making skills!

Alpines come in lots of colors and color patterns and have pretty ears that stand up. (I love erect ears, never liked lop-eared rabbits either). 

They can be bossy to each other, but LOVE their people. Sometimes I have to separate one out when she's trying to move up in the hierarchy of the herd, or if the herd suddenly decides it doesn't like one of it's members. That is a drawback but maybe all herds go through that? I can't really cull for that because it's always a different doe...hormones maybe? 

They are extrememly easy to milk, love to milk, move their legs aside for me to milk them...will stand without the head gate latched, can be milked with no grain to distract them if necessary, rarely have a foot in the bucket, etc. They will put their heads back when I'm milking them and nibble my shirt or lick my hair. They are quite sure I am one of their kids! All the bucks/bucklings have been very friendly, non-dangerous, easy to handle, etc. They do stink though!

But, honestly, I think all breeds have their good and bad points, some are friendlier, some are easier to milk, etc. It's probably more about the individual doe than breed. Of course, how they are raised probably has a lot to do with it.


----------



## Qvrfullmidwife (Oct 25, 2007)

We started with LM, followed quickly after that by Nubians. Didnt get Alpines until 2008, our 4th yr in goats.

Love, love, LOVE them. If I walk into the dairy during milking time, the nubians and lm keep their heads down, eating. The alpines look up as if to say "hey! someone here to chat with!" they usually beat the LM tothe fence for lovies. The milk has been very sweet and nice individually and when combined with the LM and nubia milk we think it's the perfect combo for the milk that we sell.

one thing I wasnt prepared for was how much fun the expressive ears would be.

overall, I think as long as we have goats we will have alpines. and LM. 

and with K leaving home, we have only one die-hard nubian fan left here on the property and she has been limited to a very small amt, enough that we are selling a nubian boy or two.


----------



## Qvrfullmidwife (Oct 25, 2007)

"they will figure out how to unlatch gates and things more easily, and are more inquisitive, so you have to think ahead of them a little more."

Cinnamon, one of our alpines from Tracy is the one who learned how to open round door knobs with her mouth and led all the other girls for a feast in the milk room. Super personality, but then all of the alpines have great personalities. Hands down, the most aggressive goats that will beat the snot out of the others are the LaManchas.


----------



## hyamiranda (Jul 24, 2009)

My alpine is the bossy one that beats on my La Manchas. I love her attitude toward me, though. She is the one who talks to me and she walks me to the gate when I leave. When I'm working in their shed she is always in the way because she stays so close to me, and she milks fantastically.


----------



## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Qvrfullmidwife said:


> "they will figure out how to unlatch gates and things more easily, and are more inquisitive, so you have to think ahead of them a little more."
> 
> Cinnamon, one of our alpines from Tracy is the one who learned how to open round door knobs with her mouth and led all the other girls for a feast in the milk room. Super personality, but then all of the alpines have great personalities. Hands down, the most aggressive goats that will beat the snot out of the others are the LaManchas.


Someone (I think it was Lee) told me you had to be smart to have Alpines.  I thought at the time that it was smart enough to realize that ears are a looooong way from the udder. Now I know it's also because they're actually smarter than some people I've met! lol!


----------



## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

I haven't had alpines, but I do know that my Kinders are much smarter than my Nubians.


----------



## Bella Star (Oct 27, 2007)

Alpines look great to me ! I like big goats and if I was serious about getting one , I would definitely try the milk out first ! See if you like the taste and that goes for any breed you choose to go with as it's the "Udder" and "Milk" that counts with a dairy doe.


----------



## linbee (Jul 7, 2010)

Bella Star said:


> Alpines look great to me !


After all the wonderful input from everyone here and what I have seen and read myself, I have decided on Alpines (to start with). I am going to get a doe that is milking, a bred doe and possibly a buckling. I feel like I will have to have a Togg somewhere down the line even if it is just a wether (they are so handsome). And, Linda, that goat on your home page is stunning!

The goat house builder is starting this week, so we are making progress. I may actually have goats before the year is out.

I'm looking forward to the day that I can answer some posts instead of asking all the questions, but I think that is way down the line.....


----------



## nightskyfarm (Sep 7, 2009)

I think you will be happy with your choice of Alpine as your starting point. You will, as you gain experience, find all the other breeds become more interesting and less scary. Your Alpines are tough and handle the newbie taking the reins so to speak. Congrats!


----------



## Bernice (Apr 2, 2009)

Whoooo Hoooooo.....another Alpine person on board!


----------



## Nana (May 12, 2010)

They sure do figure out how to unlatch gates. I have to put an extra clip on the end of the chain to keep it in place. I just forgot the clip the other day and guess who was waiting for me outside near where we go to milk every morning. My Nana and her whether. The are very smart.


----------



## LamanchaLover (Jan 11, 2010)

LM are the best! I love their milk and their personalities. We had and Alpine doe that just sailed over 4 1/2 foot fences, but the giant Alpine buck we had could care less to jump, even in breeding season!! They are very friendly, but not always the smartest. Our Nubian doe is a smart one, we have to put an extra chain, because she has the latches figured out. We have a super sweet little 5 month old Alpine/LM mix and he is so darn cute. My favorites are the LM, Nubians second. 

I would like to state all goats bite, bash, and stampede sometime in their life.


----------



## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Linda, it won't be long and you'll be answering questions.  Goats are the best teachers!


----------



## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

Linda, 

glad you decided what you want and that you are making progress on your way to goat ownership. Good luck in search for good foundation stock 

Jana


----------

