# Semen Tanks



## Aja-Sammati (Oct 26, 2007)

What is the best way to go about choosing a tank? How do you decide what straw capacity you want?

I think this is the year we want to start AI-ing...


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2008)

I started with a good starter tank. The capacity is 540 straws. I still use the small tank when traveling.

When I started collecting my bucks and adding to my semen obsession :lol I added another tank... my new tank holds 4500 straws. I like the bigger tank because of the higher capacity and larger neck opening. 

Remember just because the tank can hold X number of straws doesn't mean that's what it holds in the real world. If you have a cane with 2 straws on it you are 'wasting' 8 straws of space. Most people do not store only full canes of semen in their tank.

Go big enough but not too big when you start out. I like the tanks with the larger neck openings so that I can easily work in my tank.

And when you become addicted like Kaye and I... no tank is big enough so you'll maintain several. :laughcry

Sara


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## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

Here is a good site.
Look at the SC 20. It is on sale.
http://sementank.com/sementanks.htm

The straws add up quickly. It can be as addicting as the goats themselves, especially when you get on the ADGA genetics site and start crossing your does with "possible" bucks.

Look at how long you can go between tank fills. Mine goes about 4 months before I have to fill it again.

I would not advise on getting your own vapor shipper. It really isn't necessary. They are really expensive and usually whomever you purchase your semen from has a shipper they will send the semen in to you, you swap it over into your tank and then send it back to them, usually on a call tag.


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

> And when you become like Kaye and I... no tank is big enough so you'll maintain several.


(Where's that rolly eye thing?) That's the darn truth!!! Yeeeeep, got two now and another one sitting in the garage.

I also use my smaller tank for a travel tank. I'd LOVE to have the wide neck tank, if I had to buy over again. NEVER BUY a tank that has been sitting empty (not charged). So true about the 1 cane-1 straw. I've got several that belong to a friend and me, that have one straw of semen on a cane. Wish they'd decide to use those bucks so I can make more space! I did some clean out this year on a few bucks that I'd never use again...LOL, bought on a whim, that didn't pan out! 
Kaye


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## Odeon (Oct 26, 2007)

I actually sold (traded) my large mouth Taylor Wharton for a smaller neck Taylor Wharton with a 6 mo holding time. I got tired of filling it! 

Back in the day I used to be a semen hoarder, when we sold out in 97 I sold/gave away/dumped countless straws of semen. Never again! When I collect my bucks, I only get the minimum (If I need more I can collect them again), and I only purchase what I can really use. Semen sitting in a tank for years, NEVER to be touched seems pointless to me. I had so much inventory at one time, that even if I AI'd every goat I owned, I still wouldn't have began to touch what I was keeping..

Not trying to upset those who do keep a large inventory.. to each their own...

Ken in Idaho


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2008)

I guess I am lucky here. My nitrogen guy fills my tanks every 6-7 weeks regardless of the actual hold time on my tanks. I don't leave the farm. I pay a flat rate per tank each year... doesn't matter what size tank either.  

OMG, I could never just collect the minimum number of straws at collection. I'd be sold out before the first advertisement.  Besides, I always keep a minimum for myself that I keep for insurance and don't sell under any circumstance.

I don't consider myself a semen hoarder... just a REALLY smart buyer. I couldn't imagine if I hadn't bought some of the semen in my tank. 

Sara


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## Aja-Sammati (Oct 26, 2007)

I helped someone AI a couple of times, but I didn't pay as much attention to the tank as I did the procedure...how hard is it to maneuver in a 2.18" neck? 

This seems the right year to start my collection- we already have a list about 15 bucks deep we want to try, and the Convention will be only 3 hours from home. Perfect time to fill a tank


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2008)

Aja-Sammati said:


> I helped someone AI a couple of times, but I didn't pay as much attention to the tank as I did the procedure...how hard is it to maneuver in a 2.18" neck?


It's not terrible if you're just removing/adding semen for your own use. It becomes more difficult when your canisters are full. 

If you plan to work a lot in your tank then I would go for a larger neck opening. For beginners the smaller neck opening is fine. Generally, the smaller the neck opening, the longer the hold time.

Sara


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## UnRuli Acres (Oct 26, 2007)

My tank has the narrower neck and I really like it. It does take a bit of maneuvering to get things where you need to go sometimes, but not bad. Mine is also on the refill every 6 week plan as it's being stored at the vet clinic. I have to make a decision soon whether I'm going to keep it or let it go tho' (have some Togg & Lamacha semen I'm storing for some people, but they're supposed to come get it (yeah right.....they were supposed to get it LAST year and never did).

Geesh, I actually need to get down to the Chicago area sometime and pick up some of the straws still being held at the processor's too. Maybe I'll give them a call and make a trip down there this weekend.


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

I've gotten quite good at working in the neck of my tank. I've got two long pair of the semen tweezers and work at the frost line. Yeah, it was a PITA learning to do it. I use a wooden clothes pin for my canister holder and (knock on wood) I've yet to drop a straw of semen.

My tanks are also on a route by Select Sires and they come here every 3 months and fill. Well...unless I call and request a fill. Wonderful to work with.
Kaye


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## Melissa (Oct 27, 2007)

what do you all mean when you say "working" in your tank? don't you just open it to get straw out/put straw in. I heard that if you keep everything up to date on paper you don't have to have the tank open for very long to find the right straw/buck. I've got everything I think I need to start AI'ing except the tank and semen. what do the semen straws look like? do they just have the bucks information printed on the side? are the breeds color coded? (the last one was a joke) 
I've tried to go to a class, but the ones around here get cansled. the semen sisters asked if I wanted to host a class last year, if I did this would anyone else around here be interested in going? I live about 20 miles north of Springfield, MO straight down HWY 13. (Kaye, what am I getting into if/when I host a AI'ing party?!do I need to provided refreshments?)

-Melissa


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2008)

Melissa said:


> what do you all mean when you say "working" in your tank?
> -Melissa


I sell a lot of semen so I spend a lot of time re-caning straws. I need a large neck opening to make it easier for me. I also need to be able to 'scoop' (I use a soap can on a wire hanger) nitrogen out of my tank to pour into my styrofoam transfer box so I can safely cane semen.

Sara


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## Melissa (Oct 27, 2007)

what do you mean "re-caning" straws? a different can? *lights popping off over head* Ahh canisters! why do you have to change canisters?

-Melissa


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

:lol Some straws are color coded...no joke! Alpine-Purple,Lamancha-Yellow,Oberhasli-Orange,Saanen-Blue,ND-White,Nubian-Red,Togg-Green, Sable-Grey. Some processors use clear straws for all breeds. The information on the buck is printed on the side.

Think plastic swizzle stick that you get to stir coffee with...except one end has cotton plug other has packed powder, semen in the middle. :lol

You better keep an up to date list...cause all you see is a code number on top of the cane that goes to the buck that's suppose to be in that cane.

Working in the tank means getting the right cane up enough to keep it at the frost line and get the staw of semen out.
There's more to it...but I will continue later unless someone else wants to take over....it's my bed time and hubby needs the phone.
Kaye


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

:lol go ahead Sara...you opened that can of worms! I love my orange juice can on a wire and my little styrofoam box. 
Kaye


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2008)

It's one of those instances where I gave too much information, huh? :laughcry

Go for it Kaye, you're better at explaining than I am. 

Sara


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## Melissa (Oct 27, 2007)

okay obviously I cant grasp how the tanks work. :blush I guess I was thinking along the lines of the Jurassic Park movie where he places the dino DNA in the little canister (yes I did figure out that the tanks are a little bigger) but I was thinking you pulled up the top, all the semen straws came up, you (quickly) pick up the one you wanted to use and then lower the whole thing back down in to the liquid nitrogen. :/I'm off to surf the web for how these things work. :help2

-Melissa


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

:biggrin You tired too???
Re caning straws=
Someone wants to buy 5 straws of semen and you only have everything in 10 straw. Each goblet holds 5 straws of semen (I am not getting into the smaller straws), each cane holds two goblets. So, to take one goblet off the cane and not compromise the semen....you, 1st take a styrofoam box, an orange juice can or similar object, taped to a wire, put it into the neck of your semen tank down into the nitrogen, scoop out a can and pour it into the styrofoam box. enough to cover everything. Take another empty cane(before you freeze it put the bucks code on top of the cane- sharpie) and place it in the LN2 (or you can put a cane with an empty goblet in). Reach into the tank with your tweezers and remove the whole full cane QUICKLY and place it in the LN2...now you use your tweezers to work UNDER the LN2 and either remove the goblet and place it on the empty cane or you remove each straw from the goblet and place it inside the empty goblet. Then place the two canes in each of the tanks and pour your LN2 back into your tank.

Make any sense?
Kaye


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

:rofl I spend all this time typing this out...and she runs off. Just my luck!
Kaye


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2008)

I couldn't have said it better myself. :rofl

Last time I had collection I had quite a bit of my semen caned on 20 straw canes. Pretty cool and really helps with organization. However, lots of re-caning is involved when selling.

Sara


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

:mad Dang it...Geoff had some of those 20 straw canes and I never thought about him using it for my own bucks! Gosh darn it! Would have saved quite a bit of space. NOTE TO SELF.....
Kaye


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## Melissa (Oct 27, 2007)

Kaye White said:


> :biggrin You tired too???
> [Re caning straws=
> Someone wants to buy 5 straws of semen *same buck, right? *and you only have everything in 10 straw. Each goblet holds 5 straws of semen (I am not getting into the smaller straws), each cane holds two goblets.*so each cane holds 10 straws, right? *So, to take one goblet off the cane*(5 straws) *and not compromise the semen *let them thaw? * ....you, 1st take a styrofoam box *like a big ice cooler?* , an orange juice can *the big family size or something like canned veggies?* or similar object, taped to a wire *wire hanger?* , put it into the neck of your semen tank down into the nitrogen, scoop out a can and pour it into the styrofoam box. enough to cover everything *the box is at this point empty. what are you covering :really*. Take another empty cane *like the one your taking out of your tank that holds 10 straws?* (before you freeze it *to get it the same temp as the frozen semen straws?* put the bucks code on top of the cane- *what if you want to put more than one buck in this cane? it holds 10 straws? * sharpie) and place it in the LN2 *in the styrofoam box or the tank?* (or you can put a cane with an empty goblet in *I thought that's what we were doing?! {each cane holds 2 goblets. fill one of the goblets with the semen that the costermer is buying?}*). Reach into the tank with your tweezers and remove the whole full cane QUICKLY *the cane that's holding the 10 straws?* and place it in the LN2 *in the box?* ...now you use your tweezers to work UNDER the LN2 and either remove the goblet and place it on the empty cane *giving the customer one of your goblets? can you buy these separately?* or you remove each straw from the goblet and place it inside the empty goblet *and keep your goblet*. Then place the two canes in each of the tanks *one back in your own tank and the other in the shipper tank/customers tank * and pour your LN2 back into your tank.
> 
> ...


aren't you so glad you started helping me? :crazy .thank you so much for explaining this. I get confused easily
anyone else care to help Kaye with me? :help

-Melissa


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## Little Moon (Dec 29, 2007)

Not meaning to hijack this thread, but . . . 


Ladies this is fascinating. (sp.) I am very interested in learning how, and have done some asking around and I have been told that the best place to take instruction is at ADGA Convention. I missed it in October, does anyone know where it is going to be in '08? Or can any of you ladies recommend a school other than at Convention? What a great whay to improve your herd - such a great choice of bucks. And a great way to get your buck involved with the sire development plan and no exposure to disease.

TIA,
Anne


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## Odeon (Oct 26, 2007)

The 2008 ADGA Convention is in Rhonert Park, California (Near Santa Rosa). Most processors offer classes. You could contact them to see if any are scheduled in your area.

Ken in Idaho.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2008)

In all honesty, you really don't need to take a class to be successful at AI. I learned with an AI gun in one hand and the old Magnum book in the other.  My success rate is over 90%.

BIO-Genics publishes a wonderful AI book that really tells you everything you need to know. 

Sara


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## Melissa (Oct 27, 2007)

hay Anne, I'm just glad I'm not the only one who wants to learn AI. unfortunately, I think I need to *see* how it's done. I got all my AI stuff out last night and got brave enough to actually open the packages of sheaths and needles to see how they fit on my french gun (never really understood that), and was reading the "how-to" flier they (superior semen works) sent. well, I get the placing of the sheath over the gun but I read that the semen straw (which I've never seen one) then goes into the gun *then* insert the needle. why? wont the needle get pushed out when you "inject" the semen? or should the needle go in first? what's the point of the needle? I'm thinking I have a lot of homework before this fall. anybody want to let me practice on their doe?

-Melissa


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

Awww...Geez, Melissa, I forgot your from Mo.~the show-me state. 

You know, if you are ever in Southern Ark. you COULD just stop by my house and get a private lesson. Course, a doe in heat would be a problem...but even a closed cervix looks quite a bit like an in heat cervix, except for the opening,color and mucous.??
You could contact Superior Semen Works...who now reside in Tn. or Bio-genics (who have a listing of where they will be a year in advance on their website) or get with me next fall when I start again. Or Lelia Graystone, in your area. I believe she does some AI or did.
Now, to answer your highlighted questions:

<<same buck, right?>>- yes, unless you are* really good at keeping records*, don't put more than 1 buck per cane. I do now, but no way would I, when I started out. YOU HAVE TO KEEP ACCURATE TANK CHARTS and use *big * notes to self!
<<let them thaw?>>- yes or even raise the temp from the inside of tank neck.
<<like a big ice cooler?>> - I use a small insulin shipper from a Dr.'s office. 17"long x 11" wide (or in your case...a beer cooler. :lol)
<<the big family size or something like canned veggies? or similar object, taped to a wire wire hanger? >>-a small aluminum can that will fit easily into the neck of your tank...and yes, a wire coat hanger.
<<the box is at this point empty. what are you covering >> enough nitrogen to cover two canes adequately. I tilt my box so I'm working in the very edge of one side. Usually 2 scoops of nitrogen.
<giving the customer one of your goblets? can you buy these separately?> You WILL have empty canes & goblets...never throw them away. And yes, you can buy these from AI suppliers. I keep a couple of empties in my tank and also in my AI kit...just for this.
<<one back in your own tank and the other in the shipper tank/customers tank and pour your LN2 back into your tank.>>YES.

Chances of you re-caning for several years...slim to none, just stick with learning AI properly.
Kaye


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Melissa, I am exactly like you. I want to not only know how, but watch someone put semen in and out of their tank, everything. Remember I went to the vet the first time I put in a CIDR  Vicki


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2008)

Vicki McGaugh Tx Nubians said:


> Melissa, I am exactly like you. I want to not only know how, but watch someone put semen in and out of their tank, everything. Remember I went to the vet the first time I put in a CIDR  Vicki


Vicki, you are more than welcome to come to Minnesota for a visit. I'll even throw in a free AI lesson.  After the doe is successfully AI'd we'll make soap. 

Sara


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

:rofl Well...I can't promise soap making...but you're more than welcome here!
If *someone* hadn't messed up getting semen....you'd already know all this and I would have gotten a couple days vacation at your place. 
Kaye


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

> I get the placing of the sheath over the gun but I read that the semen straw (which I've never seen one) then goes into the gun *then* insert the needle. why? wont the needle get pushed out when you "inject" the semen? or should the needle go in first? what's the point of the needle?


Without a straw to seat the needle in...you just wasted a sheath.
With the needle gun- see the copper ring at the opening?...it's grooved because Step 1. when you put your straw of semen in the gun, and then expand the straw by Step 2. placing the needle in it,( it takes quite a bit of force to get the needle seated in the straw of semen) then Step 3. place the sheath over the gun...when you twist the sheath onto the gun, it tightens down on the copper ring holding the straw of semen and needle in place. No, it shouldn't push anything but semen out...uh, unless you don't get the sheath tight enough.
Kaye


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2008)

Okay, I gotta go home and see if I can figure out what the heck you are talking about Kaye. I am in the same boat as Mellisa. Got the gun and the fixings, but never have done anything with them.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2008)

It's really much easier than it sounds. 

When I bought my needle gun from BIO-Genics, they included empty straws to practice loading the gun so I knew what to do when the time came. Oh, and I don't recommend the needle gun for beginners. There are much better guns on the market. I only use my needle gun in certain situations; not on a regular basis.

Sara


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

Sara,
We finally disagree on something. I LOVE my needle gun! I don't use anything else. BUT...then again, I had a good teacher who warned over and over about too much pressure.  That needle gun is soooo much easier for me to get into the cervix and work through rings.
I also got a handful of blank straws to practice loading the gun, before I used it. And yes, I did make a few mistakes before I got it right and had expensive semen in the gun. :sigh
Kaye


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2008)

I knew we'd disagree eventually! :rofl

I used to be a die hard needle gun fan UNTIL I got my new gun. It was only a prototype when Teresa gave it to me to try but it is now mainstream.  The gun I use is the BIO Hi-Bred gun with the insert sheaths. Awesome, awesome gun. It is now my main gun and I only use the needle gun on hard to breed does. (I did use the needle gun on a LaMancha this year when I couldn't easily maneuver through the rings - she settled ) I find the Hi-Bred gun is better for feeling the 'pop' through the rings.

For experienced AI technicians the needle gun is great but I wouldn't recommend it to someone new at AI. I personally know of a breeding where the needle actually came loose from the gun and ended up stuck inside the doe. They had to use one of those grabber things to fish it out. Not fun or safe for the doe.

I think so much of AI is personal preference and what you get used to. I bet we disagree on a light source too. 

Sara


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

> The gun I use is the BIO Hi-Bred gun with the insert sheaths


 :O Oooooo...I gotta' go check this out! I went from the blunt continental to the needle gun...haven't seen this one yet. 


> I bet we disagree on a light source too.


I am not even going there. 
Kaye


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## Odeon (Oct 26, 2007)

My first gun was also the needle gun. I was 16 when Charlotte Painter, of Painter's Nubians tought me to AI. I used the needle gun for years. When we sold out in 97, I gave away my AI equipment, and ended up getting the Continental when I started AI ing again. I actually prefer it to the needle-gun. Guess it's all that you are used to! My friend uses the French, and swears by it, but I find it awkward.

Ken


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2008)

Give me a continental(cow sized) anyday. I just can not get use to the little bitty goat sized ones. To me they are just in the way all the time, but was told I breed a goat just like a cow. I place my right hand on her back...then use my left to deposit the semen just like I do cattle.

I have used a needle gun a few times, just was not easy for me to AI her. I was afraid that she would buck and/or I would get PO and ran it in her. So, I just stay with the VERY blunt continental style.

Your in Pleasant Hope MO....lets see. A person that you might want to talk to in a FEW days is Dr. Helen Swartz at Lincoln Univ in Jefferson City. They are having a AI class up there I think the last of March. Its going to be with boers...but inside they are all kinda of the same. I think last year she charged like 50 bucks to get in the class. But, check with her and see. 

Empty Straws to pratice on....go to CRI in Strafford and talk to them. They custom collect Bulls and I am sure they would be more than happy to find you some. If you dont mind using used straws...just to pratice the loading and that....call Dayln Wilson they are south of Pleasant Hope. He is a DVM in Springfield but milks about 70 cows. I am sure that he would have left overs around. If you are north of Pleasant Hope then call....Dean Dolh...he has Jerseys up by Halfway...I know he does ALOT of AI so I know he would have some laying around. That way you can just pratice loading the gun and all that.

ken in MI


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## Melissa (Oct 27, 2007)

coso, we need to get an AI class going for this area. how many folks do you know that would be intrested. heck, I even get a cidr for one or more of my gals and have them in heat for the class. I think I can scrounge togeather a few folks from my neck of the woods. I'll go through the ADGA list of breeders for this area and give them a call/email. does anyone know how much it cost to have someone stop and give a class? I'll host it if we can get enough intrested. 
or we could just crash in on Kaye without warning some weekend. 
Kaye the reason I used one of my sheaths is because I needed to see how the gun was supposed to be put togeather. this is my learning curve. yup, I'm definitely from the "show-me" state.

Ken, so goat straws are the same as cows?! well shoot, my aunt and uncle have a cow dairy (seen cows being AI numerous times) I'll just beg for a used straw from them (and hope they still look at me the same afterwards lol).

since the french needle gun is what I bought, well, got for Christmas preasant from hubby, it's what I'll learn and master. then, if I get better at it, I'll try branching out. I hope to one day be good enough that I could offer my servouses to other goat owners in this area and help improve the goats around here, even the boers (which I own and will be AI'ing).


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2008)

Its not the "same" with goats as cattle...BUT REALLY close. I have never taken a course on goats...I have done cattle since I was about 10. After talking to Kaye she said "if you can do a cow....a goat is AWHOLE lot easier". Its really the truth...with a goat you get to see the hole you are trying to hit....cattle you are just using your hands.

One thing you might try that I saw in a cattle class to just get use to moving the gun. Make a fist and just work the gun though your fist. It kinda of really feels the same with the gun in an animal. Just something that you might want to do and see.

I know that Lincoln in Jeff City does AI with their boer herd, and Helen is great about letting people watch as they do it. As she says....its your tax money anyway. One other person that you might get in contact in MO is...Paullette with tri-quest boers. I know she did some AI a few years back....she is up the other side of Bolivar.

Ken in MI...but born and raised in MO


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## Sheryl (Oct 27, 2007)

I have never AI'd, but I have watched a film on it, and watched someone do it once. I was told one thing that no one is mentioning. When you AI, do it in an area that has a regular light and not a flourescent. I was told the flourescent light would kill the semen in the straw while you were handling it. Ok all you experienced AI'rs, is this true?

Sheryl


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2008)

Its true to a point. You want to keep the semen in dark as long as you can. I have a VERY off the wall technique when AI'ing. I pull the semen out of the tank...I dont thaw...cut the tip off and then as walking to the animal...loading the gun as I go. That is TOTALLY against ALL textbooks. But, I have a high conception rate, so why change. SO most of the time, the semen is in the tank or in my fist as I am loading the gun. There is very little light that gets to the straw. I would think if you left it in the light for to long then yes...it will kill the semen. But, you have to remember you want it placed in her in less than 15 minutes after you take it out of the tank. Another place I dont follow the rules....if there are up to 3 in heat...I load all the guns at the same time...shove them in my jeans and pull out the one that I need for that animal.

Ken in MI


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## Tracy in Idaho (Oct 26, 2007)

My needle gun stayed in the kit this year, and I went back to my All-2-Mate gun  It really is what you get used to. The needle gun feels like poking someone with a chopstick taped to your finger <g> I just found it annoying.

I want to see the 20 straw canes! Way cool. I still have enough room in my tank that I would no way think about putting 2 bucks on one cane -- I'd definitely screw that up!

I already am planning breedings for this fall! I have some really GOOD stuff to mess with now -- it is soooo exciting!

Tracy


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2008)

What is the All-2-Mate gun Tracy?

Ken in MI


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## Melissa (Oct 27, 2007)

ken, I think I'll stick to one doe at a time for the first few years. lol.
"Paullette with tri-quest boers" got a number? if you know them very well could you contact them to give them a heads up I would be calling so they don't think I'm some crazy lady? (apologies to those on here that really are crazy) 
does anyone know if andrea forrest AI's? I kinda know her(bought a doe from her many, many years ago) and where she lives. If someone knows off the top of their head she doesn't it'll save me a call... <thinking outloud> unless I hold a AI class. she might want to come. hummm...
tracy, if each cane holds two goblets and each goblet holds 5 straws couldn't you put one buck in one goblet and another buck in the other goblet? their, technically separated. and how many cane's can a tank hold? (I'm guessing it depends on size, but on average?) and when I was surfing the web looking a tanks I got a lot about cows -I'm thinking they're the same, right? anyway I was on a chat room, much like HT and they were talking about 1000's of straws they had in storage-in *if I understood right* one tank! how can this be?! can tanks hold that many canes/goblets?

-Melissa


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2008)

Melissa,

I have a tank that holds just under 7500 Straws. But, you have to take into account that is full canes. The straws are the same size for cattle....goats....sheep and deer. So, you can just look at the number and that is the max that it will hold.

I dont think that Andrea does AI....but not really for sure on that one.

Is there a way you can get up to Jeff City the 28 and 29th of March? That is when there is a clinic up there at Lincoln, If you can not make both days just call and ask if you can watch a little...never hurts to ask.

With Paulette...dont have a number off the top of my head...but just google tri-quest boers....she did have a webpage. She has been in boers for years

Ken in MI


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## Melissa (Oct 27, 2007)

why would you need a tank that holds that many?! 
I think I'll try holding a AI class down here, think I'll get better one-on-one time, but might also look into the class at Jeff city. does anyone have a copy of an AI'ing video that I could buy?

-Melissa


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## Little Moon (Dec 29, 2007)

Sara - I went to th BIO-Genics site and found their books, but which one? They have a couple that might qualify. 
Melissa - I won't be able to make a class, just too much on my plate right now, geting ready for the big move and all.

Ok now for the real kicker question . . . Uh, um can somebody explain the techniques used to um (look at the ground and kick the dirt) um . . . collect the semen? :blush2

I gotta go now,
Anne :blush2


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2008)

Cowgirlracer said:


> Sara - I went to th BIO-Genics site and found their books, but which one? They have a couple that might qualify.


AI 101 - Introduction to Caprine Artificial Insemination

It's a great book... and is has a great price!



Cowgirlracer said:


> Ok now for the real kicker question . . . Uh, um can somebody explain the techniques used to um (look at the ground and kick the dirt) um . . . collect the semen? :blush2


Honestly, this is beyond the scope of what a beginning AI technician needs to know. You are going to purchase frozen semen from a processor or possibly from someone who has their bucks collected. Chances are, it is highly unlikely that you'll be having your bucks collected... for the time being anyway  I do collect my bucks every year and have done so for several years. However, we have a strong market for the semen. We also collect our bucks for insurance purposes which is what the vast majorty of breeders do when they have their bucks collected.

BIO-Genics comes to my farm and spends 2 days here. The collection involves a doe in heat, an AV and a lab to process the semen. 

Wow, this topic has gone from AI tanks to buck collection. Good discussion!

Sara


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## Tracy in Idaho (Oct 26, 2007)

Ken, the All-2-Mate gun is on here http://www.biogenicsltd.com/guns.html
It is a lot like a regular cow gun (but shorter )

Melissa, yeah of course you *could* do it -- my problem would be keeping track of it all well enough. I like being able to inventory just by looking at the cane ID on top. I suppose if I fill my tank up, I'd have no choice, lol. I think my tank has a 1200 straw capacity -- I still have a ways to go to fill it all up. I'm inventorying mine today as a matter of fact, but I have somewhere in the range of 5-600 straws now.

Anne, all critters are collected in about the same way. For goats, they have a doe in heat in a headgate on the ground. The buck is lead up to her, allowed to jump on her, and his penis is deflected into an artificial vagina. It has warm water that surrounds a soft inside, which is lined with a "plastic bag" type of thing. They then run the goodies into the lab 

I don't know that I've heard of anyone collecting goats with an electroejaculator, though I guess they could. (lower semen quality tho) That involves putting a metal probe in their anus and shocking them, which makes them ejaculate. Bulls really hate this 

Tracy


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2008)

Tracy in Idaho said:


> I don't know that I've heard of anyone collecting goats with an electroejaculator, though I guess they could. (lower semen quality tho) That involves putting a metal probe in their anus and shocking them, which makes them ejaculate. Bulls really hate this
> Tracy


There's a place in Iowa that collects bucks (bulls, etc.) using this method and I am aware of a few breeders who use their services. Tracy is correct about the lower quality semen. I wouldn't use this method for that reason. Well, and because they are shocked. :O

Have fun inventorying your tank Tracy. When you're done you are more than welcome to come and do my tanks. 

Sara


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2008)

Mellisa, I don't know if Andrea does AI or not. Sara Stewart does down around Purdy. I think they have a buck collection down there most years, or like you said we could crash Kayes place sometime :biggrin But it is a looong ways down there. I went and got a buck off of her last spring and it was about 4 1/2 hours for me be about 6 for you I imagine. Got rid of my tank because my supplier said he couldn't come out anymore because I wasn't buying any semen from them. Trying to talk Susie(ozark woodwyfe) on here to go in with me on another tank and keep it at her house. She's got Jerseys and has to store her semen elsewhere right now anyway. I still got to look at my gun. Had a VFD Board Meeting last night and didn't get around to it. Kaye put a lot of good info here http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php?topic=96.0 that I pasted to Word and kept about this. She said she could talk me through it on the phone but I'm scaaareeed !!!!!!!!!!! :shudder :biggrin


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## Melissa (Oct 27, 2007)

coso said:


> Mellisa, I don't know if Andrea does AI or not. Sara Stewart does down around Purdy. I think they have a buck collection down there most years, or like you said we could crash Kayes place sometime :biggrin But it is a looong ways down there. I went and got a buck off of her last spring and it was about 4 1/2 hours for me be about 6 for you I imagine. Got rid of my tank because my supplier said he couldn't come out anymore because I wasn't buying any semen from them. Trying to talk Susie(ozark woodwyfe) on here to go in with me on another tank and keep it at her house. She's got Jerseys and has to store her semen elsewhere right now anyway. I still got to look at my gun. Had a VFD Board Meeting last night and didn't get around to it. Kaye put a lot of good info here http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php?topic=96.0 that I pasted to Word and kept about this. She said she could talk me through it on the phone but I'm scaaareeed !!!!!!!!!!! :shudder :biggrin


I don't blame you, I'd be scared to call Kaye too.  man, 4.5-6 hour drive. Kaye would have to put us up for the night if we stayed to late. 'coarse, she'd make us pay our way by doing chores. :lol 
when you say "supplier" are you talking about the person who brings out the LN2? if so, couldn't you find someone else to fill it? or is this one of those things where I have to look at which brand of tank to get because I can only buy their semen? 
where's susie located? (susie, you can answer too) if she's in between us maybe we can all go togeather on a tank. (at least till we get better at doing the AI)
let me know how you and susie feel about the AI class. maybe I can talk Emily into coming. (even though I know she has her own bucks!)

-Melissa


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

:rofl Does "too much info" ring on here??? :rofl

Usually if large numbers of semen are "stored" somewhere....it's a bull stud. HUGE TANKS...tee,hee, to die for SARA!

Laughing...I've heard the "don't expose the semen to UV light"...but ya' know, if it's exposed to light- it's also exposed to cold...You want semen to go up in temp., not down! Water thaw is 94-96, so you take it out of 95 degree water and leave it out in UV light, the temp drops from the chill, so does UV light or Chill kill your semen? <giggling> chicken or egg thing.
Mine comes from thaw water (95 degree) into heated gun (same temp as thaw water,no light exposure there) then under my arm (98.6) then into the doe (appx. 102) continually rising in temp from thaw to uterus. So, there's really no exposure to UV light. Even in doe, the semen is in the gun. That means you can AI anywhere. I prefer dark places because it makes my light source work better. 

Ken, you are hilarious!! And I'd MUCH rather have that semen under my arm, than in my britches...if I bump the plunger into something! :duh

Processing semen is sooooo cool!! I've actually watched it done a couple of times. Just fascinating to watch it go from 102 degrees down to nitrogen cold! I want to tag along with SSW going to Tx. later in the month to process semen from deer!!! WHINING...but I've got other obligations, darn it!! I REALLY wanted to go!

You guys better give me warning...I'll need to move the AI kit and microscope off the kitchen table! Which ever season it is, is determined by what's occuping the kitchen table at the time! :blush
Kaye


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

Hey Sara,
You had many does that you "fall into" rather than pop??
I did some does at a boer farm last month, set up with CIDRs, I timed them down to the hr. to breed! Timed them for between 11am and 1pm... no lost sleep! Worked great...only two does "popped" the rest were wide open! Reason I mark my gun to speculum. I knew exactly where that tip was. Now, IF I COULD just get my Toggs to cooperate that well!
Kaye


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

Anybody use or have seen in use, those French Speculums that Bio-Genics sell?


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2008)

Melissa, I'm not scared of Kaye :crazy Just scared of AIing over the phone. Susie only lives about 6 miles from me. The guy that come to my farm and filled my tank is the only one doing it in my area. I could go get it refilled myself if I had too, but that would be a pain. Susie already has Jersey semen in someone elses tank so they would come to her house and fill it, if I could talk her into it :/ :biggrin


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

> Melissa, I'm not scared of Kaye


Whew, I thought I was getting a bum wrap...I'm REALLY a sweet person? :really



> French Speculums


I'm old fashion on my speculums...I use glass. LOL...favorite was sold by Magnum Semen Works...tell ya' how old that thing is?? :rofl
Kaye


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

Yea, but with my luck, I'd have to replace glass speculums every year!!! I had an Alpine that threw a fit this year, kicked like a mule, just about the time I finished AI'ing her, everything flew into the air, and she broke one of my Butyl speculums (the ones that are not supposed to break), light source survived. Crazy goat settled anyway!!!!


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

:lol Yeah, mine has been in some precarious situations, but I've always managed to save it!! With the offender getting a royal chewing...like this speculum is worth more than you'll ever be worth...or YOU COULD BE sausage. 
Kaye


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## Tracy in Idaho (Oct 26, 2007)

I like my glass speculums too. That witch Hallie broke one of mine last year :mad Then I got mad -- we literally stood her on her head on the stand and I stood on it behind her (hubby stradling her and holding her hind legs tucked up under her) and AI'd her. And she took :crazy But I will NEVER AI that doe again. It's not worth the hassle!

I like those girls that let you just plop right into them! I had 3 or 4 of those this year 

Tracy


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## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

I really like that AI stand I built. With it having the sides on it and hanging the sling under their belly from one side to the other it really helps, especially on the ones that want to squat all the way down to the floor.


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