# kinder goats



## lilroo (Aug 10, 2010)

does anyone have kinder goats, I have to doelings, which will be one year in may and wondering about others who have had kinders and how big they get. breeding them at the right time is important to me and I wonder about their weight. :help2


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Jen, I moved your post from minature dairy goats to here so you could get welcomed and see if anyone else has Kinders! Welcome, Vicki


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Can't help you, but, Welcome.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Stacey has them but she is in traveling with her husband for 2 weeks- she should be back soon.
HSMO4 I think is her name on here.


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## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

I use to have some first generation Kinders... (i think that's what they were called??) I dont really care for them, I just needed my Nubian bred and I had a pygmy buck available so he did the deed.  The kinders found a good home though so Im glad about that. 

I have never kept one until they were full grown so I dont know how big they get.


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## K-Ro (Nov 10, 2009)

Can't help with the info for kinders, but welcome to DGI.


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## ellie (Nov 17, 2007)

The get about half-way between the parent breeds! Like minis.


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## Dana (Dec 7, 2009)

Welcome to DGI. If the kinder goats are a mix of pygmy and a full sized breed, then I would consider who they took after. If they are a good mix of both parents then I would at least wait until they are 10 months to 1 year old to breed. I have had mixed goats that I don't know what they were mixed with. And they were bred around 11 months of age and did just fine at kidding time. 

Just make sure they are in good health and have a nice weight on them. If they look too thin, I wouldn't breed them until they are older. But in general most people breed young goats at 1 years old without problems. Also make sure they have been fecaled and you know their parasite load. Give them good loose minerals and a pre kidding injection of Bo-se.

I'm sure others will post more helpful tips on when to breed your kinder doelings. I wish you well on your decisions! DGI is a great place to gather info and make important choices.

Dana


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

Hi! Late to the game here, but yes, I do have Kinder goats. We love them. (We have Nubians, too, which was what we originally set out to get, but it turns out we like the Kinders better.) Size seems somewhat variable. I have two 1st generation does, now coming up on their 4th kidding here in February. They are fairly large...the bigger one is about 135 and the smaller one about 120. Then I have another doe who is a higher generation who is much smaller. She will be 2 in the spring and she was about 85 pounds when I bred her this past fall. She is a LOT smaller than the other two that I have. 

How big are your does now? If they will not be one until May, I would just wait to breed them until late summer, early fall at the earliest, just because the summer is tough on babies with parasites. But being as far north as you are, that might not be as much of a problem.


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## dinastevenson (Apr 5, 2009)

Sorry for the late entry -- I haven't been on in a while.

I also have kinders and love them. My doe is on the large side--just over 130lbs--but I've now bred her to a smaller buck and am hoping for smaller kids. I also have 2 doelings (60 lbs at 6 mo). I won't breed them until they are at least a year old. If you go to the KGBA (kinder goat breeders assoc.) website, you'll find info about the breed standard. I believe that the standard size for a doe is 115 lbs or thereabouts.


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## lilroo (Aug 10, 2010)

Thanks Vicki by moving me to a place where all could respond. To all I really appreciate your input. hsmomof4 thanks for your reply It was very helpful. i was planning to breed the doelings this coming november 2011. December 2010 they were 8 months and 45 pounds. so weight was an issue for me. Thier mom was a pygmy and their dad was a nubian so maybe that is why they are a bit small at 8 months. this is new to me crossing these two breeds and only a few breed kinders that I'm aware of in Ontario. Thanks again
Jen


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## mrs.h (Feb 1, 2010)

lilroo said:


> Thier mom was a pygmy and their dad was a nubian so maybe that is why they are a bit small at 8 months. this is new to me crossing these two breeds and only a few breed kinders that I'm aware of in Ontario. Thanks again
> Jen


Their mom was a pygmy and dad was a nubian? That could be dangerous for the doe. Some one else with more experience than me would know more though.


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## grandmajo (May 22, 2008)

I think if you're able to find an older style pygmy doe, then you might be ok. Unfortunately, the trend in the pygmy world is to breed for smaller and smaller animals. And the price for that is starting to be seen in some herds, where the does have to have c-sections in order to kid. We have a herd fairly local to me that had 21 does kid a couple of years ago and every single one of them had to have a c-section. But the breeder sure is proud of his tiny little pygmies


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## love22step (Sep 20, 2011)

My understanding of kinders is that you use a pygmy buck and a nubian doe. I haven't started breeding yet--still doing my research. I want to try breeding kinders.


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## grandmajo (May 22, 2008)

Yes, that is the recommendation by the KGBA. They do say on their website that some have started out doing the opposite by breeding the pygmy doe to a nubian buck, but it's not what they recommend.

In my experience, they were not very marketable in my area. I think that the biggest problem was that there weren't many breeders around. Short of having new breeding stock shipped in, you don't have many options beyond starting your own herd with several different lines. And I think that's what drove people away from them here. I had lots of phone calls and lots of emails requesting them, but when I finally had kids on the ground none of those people were interested any more. So I guess that I would recommend seeing if you have other breeders nearby and if there is a market for your excess kids as part of your research.


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## Drycreek goats (Sep 8, 2009)

welcome ,this is a good place to learn alot.


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

Those poor Pyg does. sigh. Soon the entire breed will be like certain breeds of dogs who cannot deliver their pups naturally. 

From what I've heard and seen, Kinders are like Mini's, midway between parents depending on their % of Pygmy. However, to me they look a bit heavier boned than the Minis do, probably because Pyrs are cobby where the Nigerian Dwarfs are finer boned and dairy.


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## grandmajo (May 22, 2008)

I had triplets born here and they were heavier boned, stocky little buggers. And they do seem to take more after the pygmies with their quirky little personalities


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

> From what I've heard and seen, Kinders are like Mini's, midway between parents depending on their % of Pygmy.


Technically, to be a Kinder, they have to be 50/50. Unlike with the minis, there is no breeding back to either foundation breed allowed. To me, the big problem with needing to start a fresh line is the availability of appropriate pygmy breeding stock. The kinders that I currently have are unregistered, because the person who bred them could not find a registered pygmy buck to use. I haven't had any issues with selling babies (but I'm not getting the prices I would get for a doeling out of my PB nubian doe, either) but I wanted to transition to registered kinders for obvious reasons. Long story short, I'm probably going to go with mini-nubians instead.


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

Ok, I was told by a breeder that she does switch back to one or the other breeds if the Kinders get too big or too small (her opinion), which would make them more than 50% of one or the other. Maybe she didn't have registered ones, or maybe she lied on the reg applications. Not sure but I was going on what I was told, I didn't really check up on it since I hadn't planned on having Kinders. It was just someone I was talking to at a fair.

Lesson learned, always double check!


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

Well, depending on how long ago it was, it may have been allowed then. They don't allow it any more, even if they did before. I know that there was discussion about it a while back, but I don't know if they allowed it at some point and then stopped.


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

Can somebody post a picture of a kinder goat? Funny, for years and years we have had our wether Stuart who we really don't consider a goat (we had him way before we had 'goats'), and he himself isn't sure wether he is human or dog.... Anyway, we've always thought he was a pygmy, but he's pretty big (plus REALLLLLYYY FAT) and when I found out how small Pygmys are these days, I started wondering if he's half pygmy and half...well, he's white, so Saanen? He's cute, and part of the family, but also highly annoying (he can totally bulldozer you, since his route is always straight from A to B and you'd better not be standing on that imaginary line....), and he is conformation and behavior wise an insult to goathood...


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

Kinders being a pygmy X nubian, they tend to have "airplane ears" but some are more floppy than that. Here's a link to pics on my farm's Facebook page (you don't have to "do" Facebook to see them).

Larger goat (on left) is a Nubian, smaller goat is a Kinder. Both bucks, both almost exactly the same age: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...85214744.15023.114442135240679&type=3&theater

Brown goat is a nubian, black goat is a kinder, as is the buck in the background:







If that's too small, here's a link http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...85214744.15023.114442135240679&type=3&theater


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

Thanks for the pictures! Yep, I'm afraid Stuart must be a kinder goat. :laughcry I wonder if we should finally let him know his true heritage or just let him thing he's a human or a dog?


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

Well, he's been disillusioned all this time, may as well let him stay that way. Why burst his bubble?


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

You are right, Sully, we'll leave him be. Plus he's got a pretty big bubble to burst...... might have been a problem anyway! :lol


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