# Buck Keeping Info



## Terri-Lynn (Nov 7, 2007)

I normally lease a buck but I am going to be buying a buckling this summer. He'll be making a big plane trip and I'll be spending more on him than I have on any of my does. I just haven't told DH yet hee hee. I am beginning research on buck care, but it is scattered. So how do you raise your bucks? Are they on the same vaccination schedule as your does? And what about feeding- how much grains at what ages? Are there any extra vaccinations needed for keeping bucks healthy?


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## mamatomany (Aug 7, 2008)

Please read Goatkeeping 101 from Tim Pruitt on managing your bucks. I just follow what he says to do


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,68.0.html


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## Terri-Lynn (Nov 7, 2007)

Thanks I did read this...but I have a few more specific questions...
He doesn't feed alfalfa but mentions someone he knows does...how much is ok, is this possibly too rich for a buck?
When you wean off milk how much grain should he get and is there a guide line of grain to follow for growth and then maintenance once mature?...you know like the 1 pound per pound of milk for does...
The article mentions keeping shots up to date but does not mention which shots he gives other than BOSE pre-breeding ...I am assuming CD&T -anything else?
Any special care needed for apparatus...in horses sheaths must be cleaned......
Sorry if I sound neurotic but I'd rather ask stupid questions ahead of time than injure or founder him and ask questions later. I like to have schedules and measurements it helps me sleep at night ; )


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

NO question is a stupid question. This is how I feed bucks
growing kids get all they want of grain plus AC and all they want of alfalfa pellets and grass hay
once they are thru with thier first rutt they then go on only alfalfa pellets and grass hay at least 3lb alfalfa pellets per goat per day if not endless. 
then when they are in rutt again the next year they also get the same grain as my milking does at 1lb morning and night plus Amonium Cloride. all thru rutt and abt 1 mo after because they loose all condition during this time of rutt and need that extr. then they go back to alfalfa pellets. 
Yes they get BoSE CD/T shots 30 days prior to breeding but no I don't give it then again prior to does freshening like we do the does, so once yearly for CD/T No I don't clean sheaths except if showing.


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## Legend Hills (May 29, 2008)

I do not feed my buck (2 yr old) alfalfa. I feed only a handful of grain when not in breeding season as a treat. When in breeding season and a little after he does get his grain as he needs it. 

He gets Bo-Se and CD&T once a year and dewormer when needed. 

He keeps his own sheath clean. No extra care in that department has ever been needed here. 


As for the bucklings I personally raise them as I do my doelings. No difference.

Also, I can't stress this enough... You can love on them and pet them but do NOT play or rough house or you'll regret it when he's bigger. What they learn when young, they do when older. Good and bad. Train him to lead and stand for hoof trimming, etc. right from the start. You probably already knew that though. 


This is what I personally do. Others might have a different management that works for them. Enjoy your new buckling when he comes.


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## nightskyfarm (Sep 7, 2009)

I agree with all that has been said so far, except that be aware especially for his second rut (young bucks are not quite into the breeding thing their first year unless they are like my La Mancha of course), you will find some bucks go completely off their grain until the rutting season nears an end. It is wise then to get your breeding buck in his best condition before the season begins; do not scrimp on the groceries during that time. A good quality hay, pasture, grain with a vitamin/mineral supplement, and alfalfa pellets will do wonders. I vaccinate yearly in the spring with Covexin 8 and Lepto. I also agree; do not rough house with your boy, they can be hard enough to deal with during rut. If you are female, be aware that your buck will know your cycle, too! Then, you have to be on your toes when working with your buck and never turn your back to your buck, no matter how gentle you think he is. Jennifer


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## Terri-Lynn (Nov 7, 2007)

Thank You. Is the AC given free choice?


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Good Point Jennifer!
Ours used to go completely off feed and look awful if we pen them. They do nothing but pace and holler even if everyone is bred because they want to run those checks on their urine every day. So that is what inspired us to develop a method for pasture breeding. And yes we have good sweet milk and yes we have firm due dates and never miss a kidding but we also have happy bucks that do not stink as badly and certainly look better year round.

I disagree on the need to watch for them approaching you for breeding purposes. We do not smell right and they don't respond to our chemical signals. If you don't stifle and pervert their normal behaviors by locking them away for months of the year they will be much easily handled all year. Think about how you would like being locked in the bathroom while the whole rest of your family went off to eat everyday. 

We also feed the same as the does with no uc problems.

Lee


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## nightskyfarm (Sep 7, 2009)

Well, maybe so, but my buck KNOWS. And he will attempt to climb on me during those times. I also had one go after me while hand breeding and as I was trying to take the doe out of the pasture he got very territorial. Because they are so large, over 200 lbs., they will run over you if you are in the way. I also had one that was a consistent gate breaker. A buck more than a doe, if they find a weak spot in their enclosure, they will work it until it gives. The only way I have found to stop him is a strand or two of electric fencing. They are just not to be trifled with and you can not assume anything. Jennifer


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

I feed my bucks mostly alfalfa hay along with a little grass hay. They also are fed goat developer pellets with AC. They get CD/T shots and wormed just the same as the does. They do need to be taught manners and not allowed to play rowdy. It may look cute when they are little, but you don't want a 300 pound buck jumping on you or butting.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I have never had a buck know I was on my period. And at 52 and still not through menopause, this was including during this last rut and breeding season. I do know a doe who was killed by a young bull calf when she was in heat, and another doe who had her rear leg broken by another older bull when she was in heat, we have also had male deer here on the property with does in heat.

My bucklings start out just like my doelings, all the milk they want, then started onto a grain with both AC already in it but also our cocci drug (using rumensin again this year). I put it out free choice, starting about 4 weeks old, enough for them to look and see what it is, but not enough to waste, I clean the feeder out daily and since it's also my older buck feed, I simply empty it into their feeders. I introduce alfalfa pellets and hay about 12 weeks, they are ruminating by then. The boys are in a pen of their own, and I can't tell you enough how important it is to raise out one of your own bucklings or purchase another buck you want to use and grow them out in pairs. Nothing stunts a buck more than being alone, and nothing makes a buck illmannered more than not having intact bucks to play with. Wethers are good friends for bucks, but it's a horrible sad life to live with intact bucks if you are a wether.


They are vaccinated 6, 9 and 12 weeks, being that you are purchasing I would throw in the 3 weeks CD&T also. Cocci treat by 3 weeks...I do cocci and worming religiously on purchased stock, they don't carry the immunity your herd does, so if you are going to have problems with either it will be in the purchased stock.

CAE, if Nubian G6S test him.

Once through his first breeding season, his meat goat pellet is decreased to once feeding a day, and he moves out into the senior buck pen if I am retaining him. They get fed once a day, meat goat pellets, alfalfa pellets (50/50) which for 2 grown bucks and 2 yearlings is 9 pounds of grain (meat goat pellets) and 9 pounds of alfalfa pellets. Like was said above I have to grain mine to get them back into shape after rut, my bucks are heavily used, but even then some bucks are fence walkers, and they also won't eat during rut, so you want them to have some spare body fat on them for rut which is just around the corner again. They have a grass hay feeder always full, minerals, and water (which is more important to male goats than even your does in milk). Other than lysigin, my bucks get the same boluses, the same vaccinations as the does. They also get their feet trimmed to as close to monthly as I can get, so they are easy to deal with, it's a tidy little trimming needing to be done, rather than massive Jurassic Park feet trimmings 

Although I love my bucklings, and pet them, they are the first to go on the ground with bottles, not in my lap. They are taught early on not to jump up on me, where I will put up with alot more from my does. The whole time you are dealing with this sweet little guy you have to remember that one day he will outweigh you, and if you teach him to play with you now, he will grow up thinking it's fine to treat you like a doe. Then one day he will jump on you when you aren't paying attention, or he will butt your children because they have taught him that pushing on his head when he was small was fun. Don't ruin your bucks. Worse is the folks who then think they will go out and teach the guy a lesson...really?

Also if he comes disbudded really inspect that disbudding job. Anything not normal and redisbud him. Most do horrid jobs of disbudding bucklings. A scab on a perfectly disbudded head doesn't have rough edges, nothing grows out of it. It should start raising up like a scab on a kids knee does, and come off in one complete round circle. Those scabs that peel and flake, are going to give you scurs. Don't wait until he is 3 months old and go yeah, he is going to have scrus, fix them right away while he is young. Read his tattoos when he gets there, make sure they match the paperwork.

OK probably more than you asked  Vicki


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## Legend Hills (May 29, 2008)

I forgot to add that he also gets a good loose mineral. 

As for my buck knowing my cycle. Yup. He seems to know something is different with me but he's never gross about it. Even though he is the best behaved, most mild-mannered buck I've ever known, or owned, he can get a bit dangerous during rut if I'm not careful at all times. Never turn your back. Never assume. Apart from that scary warning. They are pretty nice to have around. At least I think so.


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## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

I do feed alfalfa hay now to my bucks - although I didn't at the time I wrote the article. I did cut back on the feed a bit because of the extra protein of the alfalfa. However, Barbara Rissler of Price O The Field has fed alfalfa hay to her bucks for years without a case of UC.


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Not period, Vicki. Ovulating. Bucks can tell! I was out in the barn the other day and thought, "If more people had animals, nobody would ever have had to develop those ovulation checker things!" They know. Nobody here is in estrus anymore, Mozart is and has been a perfect gentleman, but I was in the buck pen the morning I was ovulating and he grinned, raised an eyebrow (okay maybe not, but you know that look!) and curled his lip at me! Handel wanted to be even more personal (clip to the fence time--time out is a good lesson!) It is just SO obvious that they can tell. I go in with them daily and it's definitely different then. My Nubian bucks were the same way. They also appear to like human pregnancy hormones. :really


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

I think it's YOU who can tell. You are changing your behavior and they are responding to your body language not your pheromones. The only way to have a relationship with an animal larger than you is by mutual agreement anyway. If you are not established as the creature at the top of the chain of command you are right to be cautious but as someone who used to rough break full grown stallions I have no problem coming to an agreement with my bucks.
It's not that you are more powerful. They just agree to let you be the boss and that means ALL THE TIME.
It's attitude people and you are signaling something is different by even thinking about the possibility of them knowing your cycle. Body language-talking whether you know it or not!
Lee


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## Lynn_Theesfeld (Feb 21, 2010)

Hi all sorry for asking questions again  but what is ac?? and I have looked for meat goat pellets only at tractor supply but is there a different name for them?? Also best way to keep your buck from jumping on you without him thinking your rough housing?? thanks in advance!!


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Absolutely. It is so amazing how much animals can pick up on body language. They can read you in a heartbeat! My first horse was a stud colt, he would always push and find any weak spot he could. Great for teaching you how to handle a horse, or any other animal!

I also had a buck deer years ago.. but he was never mean at all.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

AC = Ammonium Chloride

As far as jumping on me, I always block or bump them with my knee as they are coming up, before they quite make it. You have to be really persistent!


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## Lynn_Theesfeld (Feb 21, 2010)

good to know I do that already, just don't want to make him mean, he is QUITE


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## Lynn_Theesfeld (Feb 21, 2010)

persistent sorry computer went nutso


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## Legend Hills (May 29, 2008)

The body language would explain the bucks behavior but I was not talking ovulation. Anyway, he is still mild-mannered even then but he does do the lip thing. lol All the goats know that I am boss, even him, though I am a pretty small person. Barely above 100lbs. They know not to mess with momma.  But during rutting season, he goes out of his mind and I do NOT turn my back on him for anything as it is his hormones that are making him lose his mind. He would go after a hay bale if he could so I'm careful. I never assume he will be okay then. Prevention is the best cure for accidents.  Just my thoughts. 

Right now though, he's just a big baby, but I still respect the strength he has. (respect, not fear)


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Excellent Kimberly. I am so sad when I hear about people who are afraid of their bucks and go into their enclosures armed with pipes and the like. Just know them and be very routine with how you interact. I am much more threatened by my monster mash of yearling does trying to get to the feed trough! 

Lynn-When your buck kid jumps on you grab his front feet and make him stay suspended in the air until he struggles to get away. Then hold him further until he acquiesces- goes still and gives up and looks pitiful at you- I'm little and cute let me down..... Then let him down and walk away with NO positive reinforcement. Nothing to tell him it was play or that he was good at all about any of it. It works instantly! 

I have a good friend who is tiny tiny and she has a formidable 300 pound buck who routinely runs grown men out of his pasture. She however can control him with one hand on his collar. They have a funny game they play for foot trims. She puts a dishtowel over his eyes and he stands and then he gets bored and shakes the towel off and she has to put it back on and then trim some more. But if she restrains him totally he goes nutso and she can't trim so they too have an agreement. He likes the game of the towel and feels like he is maintaining status by agreeing to cooperate. 

We have many serious breeders in the past to thank for the lovely temperaments of our manageable bucks. 
They culled for behavior many generations back and it is happening less now but we are all benefiting from those dedicated people who knew it was part of the package. 
Lee


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

I'm not so sure it's body language. My husband doesn't see well, and he knows people from a distance by their walk, not their facial features. He picks up on body language better than anyone I know. I've been to other farms and had the owners say, "Are you ovulating? My buck thinks you are." I could not even be in the pen or looking at them, and they act different to me, and it only happens then. So, it's not just me, honest! My husband can't tell when I'm ovulating, but the bucks can. Now y'all are going to assume I flirt with my bucks or something... gah! Maybe it's not being on artificial hormones for the past 10 years? (no pill, etc.?)


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Ok Billie- it's time to put away the ballerina persona and bring on the Marine and that should take care of it! :rofl



> Are you ovulating? My buck thinks you are.


What a ridiculous thing to say to someone. It's amazing how some people have so little range.

Have you thought of getting patented? :rofl


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## Lynn_Theesfeld (Feb 21, 2010)

Thanks Lee I am headed out for the last feeding of the night...we shall see lol


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## BrokenHalterFarm (Feb 16, 2010)

I carry a crop with me when im working with buck. Not really for correction but he isnt dehorned and I use it as an extension of myself. I have tapped him for poor behavior but never harder then I would myself. 
In my opinion the best thing for an intact animal is all the socialization they can get.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Yes, but all the right kind of socialization. Yours will be different being rescues Andrew. Vicki


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## BrokenHalterFarm (Feb 16, 2010)

I actually have a buck I raised from weanling to present. I was planing on breeding meat goats but the plan changed. However 5yrs later hes only one week away from being a wether!


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Lee, actually, I edited that --it was even more um... personal! (because everyone thinks it is a different hormone that they're reacting to which comes about 2 weeks later...)

If this really isn't a common thing, maybe I should get patented! lol! It would be better if it were a doe checker, though!


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Does he know when you are cycling Andrew?


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Lee!


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

All joking aside...I believe people are misunderstanding a buck's normal drive to dominate anything and anyone in it's sphere of influence. A buck goat wants to make sure YOU are not after his girls.They want to control access to the herd. That is the extent of their goal. And domination behaviors manifest as breeding behaviors in many animals. This drive is intensified when you keep them in small areas and routinely bring and take does away. They see you as competition.
But you may be onto something- must be why there are so many satyrs out and about.


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## BrokenHalterFarm (Feb 16, 2010)

Every now and then he does look at me funny...


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

Vicki, thoughtful stuff about life for a wether with an intact buck, and the life of a single buck. Especially since many folks only need one buck at a time...


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Actually keeping two bucks means if you choose wisely you won't be on the great buck hunt for several years. Purchase a single buck and unless you are going to use his son and not keep any daughters, it leaves you buck hunting the next year....with a baby buckling who can't live with the doelings nor go out with the yearling buck for months. Vicki


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## Terri-Lynn (Nov 7, 2007)

Oh My...2 bucks I see the logic but my pocket book just won't handle it this year lol. Not sure what I'll be up to next year at this point....


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## Lynn_Theesfeld (Feb 21, 2010)

I have 2 bucks kids I plan to raise and keep as herd sires, if they are raised together can they be penned together when there older or are they going to fight? I would imagine having to separate them when there going through a rut, I'm just talking when hormones are down to a normal level?
Or would it just be safer to pen them beside each other?


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## NWgoats (Jul 17, 2008)

I had two bucks, each purchased from separate breeders. They were one week apart in
age,and had never seen each other until I brought them home at 8 weeks old. They were 
in the same pen for 3 years. They became great buddies and I had lots
of options for breeding. They did fight during rut, not excessively, but enough that there
were bloody heads on occasion. When it was not breeding season, they play fought and
wrestled each other. Slept right next to each other in their barn.

The only change I would make to my pen set up is allowing for separation of them
during breeding season. It made it difficult to get one out of the pen to take to the
doe when the other one wanted to go, too.  Other than that, I would not have 
done anything differently. 

If you are interested, I had only had goats for one year before I leaped in and bought
TWO bucklings. I was told that I was crazy, didn't even need one buck for the two does
I had at the time. (I was thinking ahead for when I had more than that) Suggested that 
I lease one or take my does for outside breedings. For my own reasons, I preferred to 
have my own. I think it was a very good idea and will do exactly the same this year.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Yes, I agree, the idea of getting two bucklings to start is an excellent idea. I got one and then another the next year. I know the first is much happier not being alone-- even though he was right by the does all along. I also added a third yearling buck later (different breed). They fight and play alot which I think is important because it gets them exersize. They don't get let out as much as the does, so they need that. A little blood on the head once in a while, but I think it makes them feel good to duke it out a little every now and then.


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## Lynn_Theesfeld (Feb 21, 2010)

I was just wondering because we have the saanens and though I love them dearly Stephan is falling for nubians and now we have the two bucks one of each that we are keeping.....Though I think we might be crazy, just starting out with goats, it does keep me busy which is what i need, now off to find a "N" doe!!!!
Thanks for the info. I think I will add on something to separate them when needed though.


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

This is a great thread. I just love my bucks. Some people probably would think that's weird, but they have great personalities and I enjoy working with them, in spite of the smell. (I can see how a wether would make a fantastic pet...all the good qualities of a buck without the smell and rut and all that.) I have two that are just a few weeks apart in age, that have been together since the younger one was about 8 weeks old. They are yearlings now and good buddies. The nubian in particular is just so mellow...he has this look to his eyes like he's about half asleep all the time.


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## KingsCoGoatGuy (Dec 20, 2008)

It is costly Terri but think of the gold mine of genetics you would have for your area... New Brunswick is the closest buck I know from the herd you are looking at. Sadly where it is a smaller herd it can be hard to find a doe in the herd not related to closely or bred to the same buck. 

Just dive in. 5 years of breeding and i'm looking at five bucks owned with 3 on site full time.... I only have 9-10 does!!! LOL.


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

BrokenHalterFarm said:


> Every now and then he does look at me funny...


 You get the lip curl, TOO?! :rofl :rofl


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

> he has this look to his eyes like he's about half asleep all the time.


It's a trick so you will come close enough so he can see if you are cycling :laughcry


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## Legend Hills (May 29, 2008)

buckrun said:


> > he has this look to his eyes like he's about half asleep all the time.
> 
> 
> It's a trick so you will come close enough so he can see if you are cycling :laughcry


 :rofl Way too funny, but probably true. :rofl


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

:rofl Lee!! That's what it MUST be! I never knew they were so sneaky!! :jawdrop


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