# CL is no big deal.......



## mommaB (Mar 12, 2010)

So tell me how someone calls WADDL and gets this answer???? This person SWEARS she has done research and after talking to vets at WADDL CL is not that big a deal, and people overeact?? WTF???(excuse my language) the goat in question has never had a breakout so this person claims their herd is NEG. Also still sells to people! How does one come to the conclusion that it is no big deal? And think it is ok to sell to people without disclosing???? 
Sorry this is just flat ass wrong, and if there is a vet making her feel better about her situation, and making it seem like it's not that bad, they should be HUNG!!!!


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## NWgoats (Jul 17, 2008)

The goat in question, was it a blood test? I understood that the blood tests for
CL weren't nearly as accurate as an abcess exudate test. As well as if the goat
was vaccinated against CL, would make a positive test.

You said she "talked to the vets at WADDL", but that doesn't mean that the
vets told her it was not a big deal. People tend to hear what they want to 
hear and conveniently ignore the rest. You can be pretty sure that was not 
what she was told. 

Yes, CL IS a big deal. Especially since there is no prevention (as with CAE)
and it is a zoonotic disease. Next time you speak to this person, you might
mention that. And yes, it is wrong IMO to sell without disclosure of things
you know about your herd.


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## mommaB (Mar 12, 2010)

Yes the goat in question was blood tested. The first time I am the one who pulled the blood. That is how I know in the first place. This person said the goat was tested a second time by blood, and again came back positive but with a lower titer. We don't know if she was vaccinated? But in doing local research, found out that she came from a known positive herd. So there you have it.
I did tell this person that CL is zoonotic, and she assured me that the vets at WADDL assured her it was highly unlikely it be transmitted to humans?? You just can't talk sense into some people!!! I could talk till I'm blue in the face. Unless someone from WADDL tells her she's not gonna believe it!!! ANd even then I wonder??? The bad thing is she has some other backyard breeders thinking the same way! And I say back yard because they are not registered, and sell for pets. I just pray they don't ruin it for someone.......


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## In it for the Bucks! (Mar 12, 2012)

Oh let me tell you it can be transferd to humans. We have a close friend that spent alot of money on antibiotics and doctors bills. He said it hurts like hell. Definitely something to be takin serious.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

The casualness of some people regarding diseases like CL and CAE blow me away. CAE can be dealt with, CL, NO!


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

And I think, if it's a positive blood test, it IS positive, unless, like you've already mentioned, that they were vaccinated for the disease. But if the goat was NOT vaccinated AND it the test was positive, then it IS positive. I think the negative is unreliable by blood because it has to be active in the system.


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## Twillingate Farm (Oct 26, 2007)

CL isn't such a big deal... 20 cents per goat and a big hole in the ground solves the CL issue in any herd. I guess the down side to that solution is that you can't raise goats on that land or barn again for several years... actually quite a few varieties of animals would have to be excluded.


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## Sans Gene Goats (May 15, 2011)

Wow. I mean wow. If the goat is positive, then it HAS had a breakout - that is how you get a positive on the test! The reason the test can be inaccurate is sometimes the body does such a good job walling off the abscess, the immune response isn't triggered (ok, my vet explained it better, but that's the gist). And they can abscess internally - not as common, but they can. 


This person has her head so far down in the sand no chance of reason reaching her ears. Her willful ignorance is going to hurt a lot of people and other goats.


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## Bella Star (Oct 27, 2007)

When people say .... " CL isn't such a big deal " .. then THEY most likely have a CL+ herd !!!!

It is a destroyer of your herd and I am not shy about it as ..... :mad WHY would anybody sell a CL+ goat as they know very well ,about the care of lancing and treating these horrid looking puss balls that contaminate all your farm including your trailer and they know that it can pass on to humans !!!!!!!! They are not stupid about CL .... They know ! :really


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I agree Linda, they know...they are just trying to market their diseased animals. Vicki


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## In it for the Bucks! (Mar 12, 2012)

Dixie, I have seen it first hand if they have a visable CL abcess it is almost 100% that they have many others that you can't see. It is disgusting to say the least that people down play it. There is a family around here that sells goats that are CL+. She has sold to numerous people and then they all come to me asking about what this big lump is. I don't even have to look knowing who it comes from. I tell them the only thing to do is STOP drinking the milk IMEDIATLY and put the animal down. They are never happy when they hear that. I just wish they would all take it more seriously. I am so afraid that one of thier children will get infected.  Wish people would understand that culling can be a very good thing at times even if it costs you alot of money. It's just the right thing to do sometimes.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

How does CL affect humans? I looked around and couldn't really find any info about humans with the disease. Is it called something else when people get it? I did see some really gruesome pictures of animals with it and read one article that was saying how a carcass being butchered could pass inspection if it only had a few abscesses. :ick


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9114145

http://images.search.yahoo.com/sear...fp-t-701-s&va=caseous+lymphadenitis+in+humans


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Thanks. There are google images of people with lymphadenitis but it didn't seem obvious that they were caused from the same bacteria that causes CL.


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## Sans Gene Goats (May 15, 2011)

In it for the Bucks! said:


> Dixie, I have seen it first hand if they have a visable CL abcess it is almost 100% that they have many others that you can't see. It is disgusting to say the least that people down play it. There is a family around here that sells goats that are CL+. She has sold to numerous people and then they all come to me asking about what this big lump is. I don't even have to look knowing who it comes from. I tell them the only thing to do is STOP drinking the milk IMEDIATLY and put the animal down. They are never happy when they hear that. I just wish they would all take it more seriously. I am so afraid that one of thier children will get infected.  Wish people would understand that culling can be a very good thing at times even if it costs you alot of money. It's just the right thing to do sometimes.


That would make sense that if there were abscesses occurring on the outside, they would be on the inside, following along the lymphatic system. I think what my vet meant is it was possible there could be internal abscesses occurring without external ones showing, but rarely would this happen. I do not envy your experience in seeing that - ugh. The pictures in our vet medicine book were bad enough.

The situation with that family you mentioned is sick, sad and disgusting.


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## dreamfirefarm (Nov 15, 2011)

I agree CL is a very big deal. But it has been delt with using an autogenous vaccine made from the herd that has the disease and vaccinated for several years in a row. This was many many years ago bit I have seen it work. Not cheap of course and I dont know if labs still offer the service. Just my observation. And I would never never sell anyone an animal that had a cl abcess no matter what.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

dreamfirefarm said:


> I agree CL is a very big deal. But it has been delt with using an autogenous vaccine made from the herd that has the disease and vaccinated for several years in a row. This was many many years ago bit I have seen it work. Not cheap of course and I dont know if labs still offer the service. Just my observation. And I would never never sell anyone an animal that had a cl abcess no matter what.


I'm not sure what this means, Lynne. Yes, you can vaccinate, but then, if you test, you'll never really know, will you? Because of the vaccine, they will test posiitive. Of course, even if you don't vaccinate and you test, you still won't really know because it may be dormant. The test is inaccurate.


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

I know a local herd that got CL from the county fair.  She claims she got control by culling the goats that got it and vaccinating her herd. I guess what she means is she is not finding abcesses. The way I see it, that is all anybody can claim. She has a meat herd though. 

I explained that CL would be a big problem for my sales. She thought there was a good chance they would bend the rules and let me opt out of keeping my goats at the fair all week since they are overcrowded anyway. The pens are metal and can be cleaned well, but they definitely allow for more contact between herds than I like. And they don't have room for tack pens in between herds.


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## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

I think that CL is the most insidious disease there is and is worse IMO than CAE. As breeders we should do all we can to eliminate both of these disease. Abscesses on our farm are tested with UC Davis lab and the goat kept isolated until the lab results come back in. So far, (thank the Lord) every abscess tested has been negative for CL and were most likely caused by a splinter or a thorn.


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## NorthOf49 (Feb 8, 2011)

swgoats said:


> She claims she got control by culling the goats that got it and vaccinating her herd. I guess what she means is she is not finding abcesses. The way I see it, that is all anybody can claim. She has a meat herd though.


Isn't that the only way you can control it if you find yourself up that creek? Seperate animals, test abscesses, cull positive animals, and vaccinate the rest? Eventually the herd will be healthy won't it? I had the vet out the other day and we discussed it: she said I should do one more year of vaccinations and she said that after two years of having no positive abscesses I could claim to be 'clean'.

I agree CL is a gigantic PITA. Even though I'm not quite at 2 years and even once I make it to that milestone I'm going to be losing sales for a very long time due to having had two positive animals. Yes, I had them seperated, yes I put them down, yes the barn they were in doesn't house animals anymore and is getting slowly torn down... Still, the history is there. And I can't blame people for being gun-shy. I tell myself at least I'm being honest but that's cold comfort.


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## dreamfirefarm (Nov 15, 2011)

Yes the ones you vaccinate will test positive. Back when this was done years back they vaccinated for about three years still on the same farm . And had no new breakouts at all . Then didnt vaccinate after that and still 10 years later an generations down from the original goats but still the same bloodlines still have not had an outbreak. They moved to a new farm no abcess and the lady that moved into the old place has goats and has no abcesses. I have no technical proof all I know is what I saw and helped with first hand. No one has to follow or believe any ones advice in fact I am not offering my observation as something that is a proven treatment or whatever you would like to call it . I offer it as an observation only and it worked for them . In fact the last doe that we vaccinated that way died a few years back at age seventeen. And she had actually had an abcess in her flank, we vaccinated , it dried up and fell off we caught it and disposed of it properly and she never had another one and like I said died about 5 years back at 17. She wasnt my goat but I was one of their helpers thriough the whole process. Like I said previously dont know if there is any labs even making autogenous vaccines anymore. But they cleaned their herd that way. 
Then I had another freinf that had her whole herd crop with these awful abcesses and everyone was having an attack dont go over there etc etc. Well I helped her do a clean catch of the material and we sent it to a lab STAPH only after that year and some treatments for staph she has never had another one. So I guess all I am saying is that check all options if you want


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