# Curious about milk and laws in Texas (Tomball more specifically)



## laughter777 (Jun 16, 2008)

I know it is illegal to sell milk to people that is raw without a grade a license. Anyone know if it is legal to sell a goat or lease a goat to someone who wants milk, but keep it at your place and charge board, vet etc bills and give them milk??? I have a couple people that are interested in getting raw milk, but I don't want to risk selling it to them...

Also does anyone here have a Grade A License?? How hard is it to get...what do you have to do? Did you sell milk prior to getting it? How is your sales different...other than being legal?

Thanks,
Sarah

Wasn't sure if this went in the homedairy area or in the questions area or where?!!?


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Sarah if you do a search I think you will find out quite abit abt goat shares etc. Your best bet in getting an answer here on an open forum like this is to email individuals in the area but not asking here on the forum. Go to realmilk.com and it tells abt. laws in different states also ADGA has government info and links on their site. There are cowshares around TEXAS but to my knowledge there are not any goat shares. Don't know how well it would stand up in court anyway. I sell to private individuals for making goat MILK soap if they so desire.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Just sell it. I say this. It is illegal for me to sell goat milk from my farm because I am not a grade A dairy. All the milk I sell goes to people who make soap. What you do with the milk when you leave my property is up to you. It's $8 a gallon and is sold in 1/2 gallon milk jugs, and all my milk is sold raw fresh frozen. 

Being that much closer to Houston your price will be considerably higher. The whole cow share, pet milk etc..stuff is not going to change the fact that it's illegal. most with Grade A license also deliver milk, also illegal...so there is a whole lot of illegal activity going on in Texas  In 22 years do I know anyone who has been fined who doesn't have a Grade A license? No... Do I know anyone who has had their animals confiscated...sadly no because alot of animals live in squaller. The only thing I know of personally is someone who did have the Health Department out, and instead of the dairy or the goats, they got popped for their septic tank. Were they turned in by the cops? By the inspector for the area? Nope, a busy body goat gal with too much time on her hands 

Also beware yearly we get these ominous sounding letters to cease and desist  They are always prompted by busy body goat gals with too much time on their hands who turn us in...usually as they stop selling milk  Vicki


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2008)

I don't know of a Judge in this state (AL) that would convict me for selling goats milk. And now with food shortages growing larger by the day, I think they would be even more prone to look the other way. 

I'll take it one step futher, and say that I believe there would be an absolute outrage by the public here if a judge were to put me in jail for selling milk, while turning those that are dealing in the powdered white stuff out after serving a week or 2 with a slap on the wrist. 

JMO.....and as it's been looking for a while now, about anything that you eat or drink anymore (inspected or not) should be marked "buyer beware". I actually feel much better about buying stuff from the local gardens,etc. around here, than I do at the grocery store. At least I can see where it's been.

I have milk customers that come watch me milk, (I even invite them to) and they see for themselves how clean I handle every proceedure......if they were to visit a full scale cow dairy, and watch as the cow plops hit all over the lines, inflations, teats, udders......they would never drink store bought cows milk again.

Whim


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## BlueHeronFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

Our facilities meet the Grade A Raw standard, but we do not have the license because we do not sell fluid milk. The inspector said he would sign off on it if we decide to get the license, but we're not really interested right now.

It can be pretty pricey to get to code, but there are less expensive ways than how we did it.

Just as a point of fact - while it is legal in Texas, the government and the state inspectors really do not want you to do it. It would always be an uphill battle to stay in business.


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2008)

""""It would always be an uphill battle to stay in business. BHF"""

You're exactly right :yes ......as with any small family farming.

Whim


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Yep and they are in the process now trying to chg TX laws making it even harder to sell cheese .


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## Rose (Oct 26, 2007)

Info:
http://secure.sos.state.tx.us/pls/pub/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=T&app=9&p_dir=N&p_rloc=72966&p_tloc=&p_ploc=1&pg=6&p_tac=&ti=25&pt=1&ch=217&rl=26

This takes you into the middle of the documents that are the Texas milk/dairy law. You can work you way back and forth through the whole thing.

My bottom line was that if I did all of what they require, I'd spend a minimum of $30,000 building what they require. More likely $50,000.

Just not worth it.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Even when you get it built the yearly costs are quite large from testing does to testing milk to yearly license.


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## BlueHeronFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

The permit is $800 for two years, I believe. That covers your routine testing, but of course it costs the state much more than $800 to test you 3x every 2 months or whatever the schedule is. This is why they do not really want you to do it.

You could get raw certified for 10 grand, I would guess, possibly even less, depending on how you are set up for water/electrical supply. But a fresh cheese kitchen would be at least double that. The pasteurizer alone would run about 10 grand - more if you are getting a big one. 

The only way I see being able to make raw milk work - legally and above board - is to also get permitted for pasteurized. You can sell your pasteurized milk, yogurt and kefir at markets and when people ask about raw, you can get them to come to your farm for that. That is really the only way I can think of - at 100% legality -to get the traffic you need to make it work.

My best advice is that this can never be a hobby or a side business. The only way to make being legal pay is for at least one person in your family to make it their full time job. For us, it is both of us. Just my .02


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2008)

I really can't remember who said it, (it was probably Ken last year)......said in order to pay for all the stuff that you would need to run a full scale licensed goat dairy, you would need to be milking something like 500 to 600 goats. One of the real kickers would be when you have enough goats that you have to employ folks to help run the dairy......worker's comp., SSI taxes....ect.

Wow ! I was just thinking of how much land you would have to go in debt on to run 5 to 6 hundred goats.


:shudder Whim


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Whim land isn't an issue, they would have to be dry lotted, so many square feet of under cover space, so many square feet of outside space. That is the problem with legal, it brings in the real facts that to make a living you have to be big (real income, insurance, taxes), it's a full time 24/7/365 job. And I don't know anyone who has kept up with it without major help and outside resources. It's more of a romantic notion that when done on a small scale never lasts...don't quit your day job. Take away the legal issue, and let the buyers decide whom to buy from and yes it could be a very profitable family business. It is going to take someone in Texas going to court, and the other dairy gals actually showing up to get TV coerage, to get their customers enraged..the problem is we are too busy to then back up the exact people we need to. And when it goes back to it, how many with dairy goats filled out their AG reports? Few, so once again how can we prove how many dairy goats are in Texas? There just isn't any kind of copperative in the dairy goat gal vocab in Texas. vicki


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## janettemoore (Oct 30, 2007)

I agree with you Vicki......and others. We have figured the economics up, down, and sideways, and It never comes out "Profit". I have been messing with goats for about 14 years off and on. Bottom line is I love them, and I love the milk and other dairy products. My DH doesn't "believe" in all this hard work but he makes great goat milk yogurt! My grandkids (who live with us) think it's work too, It keeps me and my daughter, Dana, who lives next door busy, and I think we are healthier, not just from the dairy products, but from the physical activity. 

Janette Moore


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