# CIDR w/o PG600??



## NorthOf49 (Feb 8, 2011)

Just wondering if anyone has had success using a CIDR (for AI) without using PG600. I only have one doe I'd like to try this fall and well: it's a ginormous PITA to get a $38 bottle of PG600 into Canada only to use it once and throw the rest away.  Dam them for discontinuing the single dose vials! Opinions? Try with a CIDR and no PG600, or do it right and bring in the PG600?


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

It might work, but it might not. The CIDR gets the doe to standing heat, but the PG600 is what helps her release the egg. I wouldn't do it for an AI breeding, maybe for a live breeding I'd try it if I really had to. Have you tried doing AI on a natural heat, or is there some reason you can't do that this time?


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## NorthOf49 (Feb 8, 2011)

I would if I could: I won't be home when she's due for her next cycle and I'd like to get everything bred ASAP so we don't have a 7-month kidding season like we did last year. If I breed her on her next natural heat I won't be home so she'll be cross-bred... I'd like to at least try to get her settled AI for purebred kids. Ho hum. I guess the question is: is it important enough to me to spend the $38 plus go through the hassle of getting it across the border.


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## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

Since this is almost the natural heat cycle for your doe, you could do the CIDR and use Lute only rather than Lute and Pg-600. Some breeders have reported pretty good success that way (we haven't done CIDRs long enough to tell you the pros and cons, success/failure rate of different methods). If you were trying to breed in the off season then you really do need the PG-600 - this from a variety of experienced breeders and my extensive notes of the conversations ;O. LOL


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## Ziggy (Nov 13, 2009)

Is Pg600 illegal in Canada or something? Why would you have to buy from the Us?


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## NorthOf49 (Feb 8, 2011)

Well, I don't know now. Last time I looked into it it wasn't approved here or something: I think it was available on a very limited basis for certain specific instances and only through a vet... I was just looking at it and it lists it as available in Canada (at least Intervet shows it as available with a number to call...) I'll have to do some more researching. I can't even find it on Jeffers anymore. Maybe it's just one of those days.


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## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

Have you tried just using Lutalyse? (No CIDR) I brought 5 does into heat within just a few days of each other by only using 1.5 ccs of Lutalyse IM. They should come into heat within 24-48 hours after giving the shot. I tracked one heat cycle in August, then synchronized them in September.


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## NorthOf49 (Feb 8, 2011)

Pretty sure that's vet script, isn't it? I'm going to have to tackle the question of oxytocin with her in a few months for kidding... not looking forward to it. She's a pretty good goat vet, but also very firm on the reins if you know what I mean. I think she doesn't quite trust me yet, which is fair enough. Just don't want to push it with her... I'd rather get the PG 600 from the States and deal with that hassle than ask her. lol. Yes, I'm a weeny!


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

http://www.pipevet.com/pc_product_detail.asp?key=3D84BD5D8A0B46DFAE9EB09F239B08DF

Have you tried getting it from these guys?


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

Christine- did you breed them on the heat that was induced or on the next cycle? I've read that Lute will cause the doe to cycle but will not cause ovulation. I'm having one of my does bred by an outside buck this year and I really don't want to order a 10 pack of CIDRs for just a single use this year, so if Lute would work that would be fantastic.


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## lonestrchic23 (Jan 7, 2011)

I too would love to be able to sync does with just Lute instead of having to do the CIDR route...... I have CIDRs, but no PG600. I refuse to spend $45 on the big bottle, just to toss 90% of it, so until the single dose PG600 is available again, I won't order it....

Just 1.5cc, and then breed on the next cycle? 

Nicky, you can order single CIDRs for $5 each from Pipevet.....


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## NorthOf49 (Feb 8, 2011)

I bred on the heat that was induced... did so last year too with a couple that I had set up with CIDRs and the PG600 and then ran into an issue getting semen so I had them live bred and they took. So the protocol with CIDRs and PG600 definitely produces a viable heat.. no idea on whether the lute produces a viable heat. Nancy, thanks for the tip... I tried to add some to the cart and checkout at Pipestone but when it comes to making a customer profile US is the only country listed. So I'd have to do the same as with Jeffers: ship to Washington just across the border and then get someone to pick it up and send it on to me. I so hope they start producing the single dose PG600 again!!


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

Thanks Crystal!!


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Unless you are trying to synchronize a big herd of does to be bred all at once, or are AI'ing, why are you using CIDR's during breeding season, when the buck effect works just as well? Using lutelyse during breeding season also, why not just introduce her to a buck and breed her, a buck can break her season also. Lutelyse does not give you ovulation and if you do give it half way through a normal 21 day cycle, she will come into heat, but she also may not have many/any eggs to ovulate this quickly after her last ovulation...it's why we use the PG600 with the CIDR.


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## lonestrchic23 (Jan 7, 2011)

It's technically breeding season, but apparently none of my Alpines got the memo! 

I wanted January/February kids, but if my gals don't start cycling soon, that won't happen.  Too late for me to try to sync this year, but handy to know that I can sync them up next year....


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

My girls are cycling, but one is being bred to an outside buck and the rest that are being bred for Spring have to kid out while I'm out on Spring break. The rest of the first half of the year will be to busy for me to count on being home. I've never had to worry about breeding dates in the past, but this time I just don't have the flexibility.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Than I would be using PG600 with the CIDR's if you want it to work  Mostly advice for the OP. Vicki


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

Crystal, it's a little too early for Alpines to start cycling.


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

I was thinking that, Vicki. I'm taking her back to her breeder for breeding this time and she's a couple hours away. No way I want to miss it!


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## lonestrchic23 (Jan 7, 2011)

KJFarm said:


> Crystal, it's a little too early for Alpines to start cycling.


Yea, I know....... Last 2 years though I've had Alpines come in around the 2nd week of August so I was able to have some January kids..... Was hoping my luck would run the same this year so I could have my Sr. does kid out Jan/Feb & then have my Jr does kid out late March/early April but I'm not gonna get my way this year it seems


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## NorthOf49 (Feb 8, 2011)

It was for AI but she's the one who decided to change up her cycle and came in heat a couple days ago. Before she switched up her cycle she was due to be in heat when I was out of town. She's the doe in my other post about varying heat cycles. Not sure what happened there, but I AI'd her on that heat and if she cycles again it she'll be bred to the buck. The bucks have all been penned next to the doe herd for a bit now and it's finally working (much to my chagrin... now I want to shoot everything with four legs and a penis since the yammering is driving me bananas) but of course all the does I don't want bred right now are cycling, and now I've had to move the bucks since there's a yearling intent on either going through or over the fence, and at the rate he's working at it, it's only a matter of time before he succeeds. S'all good, for now those problems have resolved themselves. Thanks for the ideas though! The other day I had this lightbulb that I feel like I'm starting all over with goats. Just keep running into new problems lol but learning lots so meh.


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