# Mixing breeds



## lazydaisy67 (Sep 7, 2009)

Are there any two breeds of milking goats that you would NEVER mix? Any two that make exceptional mixes? Just curious since I know I won't be able to find a LaMancha buck around here anywhere, but it's possible to get my hands on a Nubian or a Togg buck. Don't know if that will yield some good milkers or not?


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## Theresa (Oct 26, 2007)

I have had some lamancha/nubian mixes in the past that were really good milkers. They milked well and were easy to handle.
Theresa


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

I've heard that Saanen/Nubian crosses are very good too.


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## Ziggy (Nov 13, 2009)

Have you considered AI?

I have the same challenge since we have 4 breeds here now (althoughAlpines and Nubians are main focus). I can't afford to by a top buck for the other breeds so will be using a friends buck or doing AI for the single Saanen and Lamancha does we have.

Unless there is some particular reason you are seeking a cross I would try and find a good buck of the same breed to buy (or in your case if you only have a couple of does to use/lease/borrow) or try AI.


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## Epona142 (Sep 2, 2009)

I have a Snubian (Saanan/Nubian) doe that is a very good milker as a first freshener, I really like her a lot. Not the smartest goat in the yard, but that's okay.

My friend has a Nupine (Nubian/Alpine) so I look forward to seeing how she produces, as she's a nice doe.


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## cstafford (May 30, 2010)

Ziggy said: Have you considered AI?
I have. I would like to. but it has a lot of difficulties attached to it. Vet hasn't done it before. Straws cost. Vet costs. Shipping costs. You have to have something special to ship semen in. 50% success rate and lower for for ff. (Probably even lower for an inexperienced vet) It seems overwhelming when I consider I could just breed with any ol buck to get milk.


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## Ziggy (Nov 13, 2009)

If milk is all you are after out of your current goat(s) then I agree "breed with any ol buck to get milk." but if you want to be able to sell offspring for a reasonable price or build a quality herd then you need to invest.


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## Hollybrook (Jul 17, 2009)

Yes alot of Commercial dairys use them to correct bad udders on thier Sannan's think about it they took the best of all breeds and combined them into one breed the only 'Real American Dairy Goat' if I were you I would look for a Nigerian Buck to breed w/your doe's you'll get Mini Mancha's, they sell like hot cakes and you'll get more milk on less feed how could you go wrong?


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## Hollybrook (Jul 17, 2009)

Someone told me not to breed unless it will improve your heard so look at your girls which buck will improve your girls best? I believe either breed would be ok Togg or Nubian one of the Best La Mancha Buck's derived from Togg's 'One Oak Hill Mac Tumbleweed' 2 our best milkers and by best I mean best tasting and production are from Nubian x La Mancha. THere is a nice Togg farm up your way ( Iowa ) Eagle Creek try contacting them.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

> Yes alot of Commercial dairys use them to correct bad udders on thier Sannan's


I am confused here- use what? Surely you would not use a crazy quilt like a Nubian on a good solid Swiss line hoping for udder improvement? I have only seen the other way around bear any improvement. Do I misunderstand? The purpose I have had stated to me for bringing Nubian lines into Swiss was increase butterfat and improve milk flavor.

We raised and milked cross bred does from purebred Nubian and Lamancha and they were wonderful in all ways.


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## Theresa (Oct 26, 2007)

If you can get a nigerian buck, then I have to agree about the mini lamanchas. They are wonderful milkers and eat alot less then the standard dairy goat.
Theresa


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

I think the bad crosses are more individual goats not mixing than breed specific. When I became unemployed and wasn't showing or breeding registered goats due to cost, I started just looking for a buck who would keep the milk production and diary character in the kids among what local stock there was. Almost all of my goats now are crosses. I have Nuberhasli and Nupine, with 1 full Nubian doe and one full Oberhasli doe. because my last buck was Nubian, I decided to stay with Nubians for now and bought the best buckling I could afford that would improve my little herd. Since most of my goats are related, I didn't have to really decide which traits of the many I needed to improve, they are all pretty equal in strengths and weaknesses. Now I can start back with registering and maybe even showing next season, concentrating on the goats instead of basic survival.

One thing you should look for is what type of breed(s) sell best in your area. In my area Nubians are the most popular, followed by Nigerians. However, most people with Nigies around here don't use them for milk, just pets or in the rare case, show. The pet Nigies are many and cheap (and poorly bred for the most part). The nice quality stock is expensive (as it should be. That's what I started out with and was never disappointed), free of diseases, and registered. When I sold out my Nigies, I had no problems and the entire herd went as one to a local woman who wanted to keep on with my breeding program for show and production.


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## hyamiranda (Jul 24, 2009)

I was personally hoping that I would get a doeling out of my Alpine/La Mancha cross that happened out of necessity last fall. I think that would have been an excellent mix.


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## Hollybrook (Jul 17, 2009)

Im sorry Lee I didnt make any since at tal, I was refering to La Mancha's while not etched in stone word is of all breeds they (La Mancha's) surpass all in udder confirmation with good Butterfat % what good is a 3 gal a day Sannen if her udder's dragging the ground or poor teat's commercial dairy farmers are utilizing them as are Meat producers using Nubians to cross out w/Boer's.


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Mar 2, 2009)

I'm looking forward to getting a Saanen/LaMancha cross out of our girls next spring. Then we will have two LaManchas, one NuMancha and one S'Mancha.


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## Squires (Jul 23, 2010)

cstafford said:


> Ziggy said: Have you considered AI?
> I have. I would like to. but it has a lot of difficulties attached to it. Vet hasn't done it before. Straws cost. Vet costs. Shipping costs. You have to have something special to ship semen in. 50% success rate and lower for for ff. (Probably even lower for an inexperienced vet) It seems overwhelming when I consider I could just breed with any ol buck to get milk.


You don't need a vet to AI -- you can take a class, or take your doe to a class and pay for the technician to do AI. Most vets do NOT know how to AI -- the technicians who do it every day know a lot more.

I have not done this yet, but does this sound as if would work? : :help2

First time pay to have the doe bred AI and take the class (this fall) so I can learn. And buy an AI kit.

Next time I synchronize does to come in heat on a the same day (CIDR inserts). I order two straws of semen per doe, and ask the semen to be shipped so as to arrive as they are coming into heat. The pig AI people inseminate TWICE to make sure it "takes." I'll pay for moderately priced semen the first time. Do two inseminations within 36 hours. Ship the tank back -- possibly paying a fee for keeping the tank a couple of days(?). Wait, and see if it "took." I bet I could do it for less than $100 per doe average over two years. More does, less cost per doe. Depends on shipping costs and how many does I split the cost of the AI kit on. Do you normally amortize livestock equipment for five or ten years? A good AI kit could give you years of use.

Would that work?

Seriously, anybody can do AI with the right teacher and some care. Then you can cross-breed or breed for better purebreds using a greater selection of bucks. Costs less than transporting the doe to a really good buck! 

I think I just mentioned that someone in my area had a nice buck, but he went on a trip to the butcher because they found CL in their herd. They were really super-honest, super careful people. To have a clean herd, you need to be honest and careful for yourself, too. Biosecurity is a good idea!

Chris


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Ok Thanks for clarifying Dave!
I know our LM buck did wonderful things for our Nubian udders. 

Yes I do sell a couple of bucks each year for Boer improvement.  Don't shoot me Boer Folk! 
One good reason we do not want the herd books opened.


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Chris, I've even heard of folks doing AI successfully by reading a book or looking online about how to do it. Or, find someone that knows how and have them show you. I've not done it yet, but would like to. I think it will be as expensive as you make it. Doesn't have to be outrageous, though.


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## lazydaisy67 (Sep 7, 2009)

Well, it looks like I'll be going to check out a Nubian buckling. The couple who is selling him are getting older and say they just don't want to have to worry about finding people to do their chores anymore when they travel. The person who found him for me says he is out of her registered Nubian buck and she knows that he will be a good producer and bring healthy bloodlines into my flock. He is healthy and big and has been taken very good care of, so I'm really praying that this will work out. I have an appointment to go to see him the week of the 10th. 

This lady also has a Nubian/LaMancha mixed doe and LOVES her milk flavor and her personality, so that sounds like a fairly good prospect for me. I'm not really in a position to be too picky about which type of buck I can find since not too many people around here have goats to begin with, let alone milkers.


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## Painted Pony (Apr 12, 2009)

Chris, I have only AIed for one year so I'm a novice but here's my take on your plan FWIW. In theory your plan sounds good but remember that even using 2 straws 12-24 hours apart does not guarantee conception. That means you may spend all that money on shipping two straws and still not cover the doe. Now you face spending all that money to reship two straws and try it again in a few weeks. Semen can be found for $35-75 a straw. Shipping those four straws will be $60 or so each way, and you pay for the shipping tank coming and going. The Shipping tanks are only designed to hold their charge for 1-2 weeks (depending on the model) and you opening it to pull the straws will reduce that charge so it's something to consider. I have bought semen from a few different places and no one has been able to tell me the semen will arrive on a specific day. Best I have been able to narrow it down to was semen arriving within a certain week. Once place took over a month to get the stuff to me but that was a private breeder. If your plan works and the does take the first time then it's great and you have spent about $150 (CIDR, semen, shipping) to cover each one. If it doesn't take your costs go up quite a bit to cover any doe that doesn't take. As long as you go in to the project with the realization that even using two straws the does may not take I think your plan is possible, but I wouldn't do it with the though of saving any money because it may get expensive to cover those does each year. JMO


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

And semen lasts in the doe at least as long as she is in standing heat, so the two straw method is wasteful. Vicki


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## Squires (Jul 23, 2010)

Vicki McGaugh Tx Nubians said:


> And semen lasts in the doe at least as long as she is in standing heat, so the two straw method is wasteful. Vicki


I'm glad I asked! Thanks. 

Now, what if you bred a Nigerian Dwarf doe to a Nubian buck? Would the doe survive the kidding? Would the kids be born smaller and "catch up" in size later? Anybody actually done this? (thinking of mini nubians)
Chris


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## Ziggy (Nov 13, 2009)

If you want Mini Nubians you should use a Nigerian buck on a Nubian doe - the other way around is not recommended and is likely to result in birthing problems.


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