# Underweight? Pics please!



## WhisperHills18 (Aug 12, 2014)

I think my girls are a little underweight. They get a scoop of grain (about 1lb) twice a day. They also get 1 flake (very thick) of hay a day. I'm working on building a free choice mineral dispenser, so in the meantime I offer them some twice a day, which they usually take me up on. I'm just wondering if I just think they're underweight, or if they really are. I would love to see pics of your girls to see what my goal should be. My ladies are currently dry.


















Thanks everyone!

Delaware - first 2 dairy goats (Nubians)


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## Goat Town (Nov 20, 2010)

I think we need a little more information. For instance, how old are they? When were they last dewormed? Do they have access to browse in addition to the hay? hat kind of grain are they getting? My first reaction is not enough feed or hay.


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## WhisperHills18 (Aug 12, 2014)

They are getting a goat grain from Southern States that is 16% fat. The brown doe is 5 years old and the grey doe is 4 years old. They have access to a field that has grass (I know they don't much like that tho) and has some weeds like poison ivy that they seem to love. Since they don't have much as far as browsing goes, I give them a flake of mixed grass hay a day (they seem to love it, I have it up high in a hay rack so they have to reach up and don't waste much. So far, they haven't wasted enough to measure!) 


Delaware.
My first 2 dairy goats (Nubians)


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## WhisperHills18 (Aug 12, 2014)

Oh and they were last dewormed in July. I just purchased them less then a month ago.


Delaware.
My first 2 dairy goats (Nubians)


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## EmyAcres (Jul 3, 2013)

What about CAE? Did they come from a negative herd and have they been tested? My first reaction is yes they are under weight.


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## WhisperHills18 (Aug 12, 2014)

I had the breeder run a CAE blood test and they have come back negative. The grey doe is actually thinner then the brown doe. The brown doe has appeared to put on some (tho not much) weight since I've brought them home, but the grey doe hasn't seemed to gain any weight yet. My first instinct is to add more grain to their diet (as I would my mare when her weight starts to slip in cooler weather) but I've heard goats are pretty sensitive, and that maybe increasing grain isn't the best way to put weight on a goat. (Actually I read on a girls blog, tho I don't remember which one, that you should give them free choice minerals to help them gain weight as oppose to adding more and more grain to their diet).


Delaware.
My first 2 dairy goats (Nubians)


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## EmyAcres (Jul 3, 2013)

I don't know how that adding minerals to their diet would help them gain weight but maybe that's something I don't know about yet. I would be careful with upping the grain as that can upset their rumen. But would get them a good alfalfa hay the best you can buy and give as much as they will eat without wasting it. Hay has really helped my girls not look so thin. I used to not give them hay because they wasted so much of it but now they eat the majority of it with little waste but my girls are in a dry lot. Also another thing I would do is check their eyelids. If they are pale pink or white you have a worm problem. You want dark pink to pink eyelids.


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## jdavenport (Jul 19, 2012)

My girls (in milk) eat (and throw on the floor) nearly 10 pounds of hay a day each. My dry doe and kids eat around 5 pounds of hay per day. This is mixed alfalfa and orchard grass. They also have access to pasture and browse. Your girls do look a little thin for dry does, but I like my girls a little chunky when dry, because they usually milk it off. You could try adding more alfalfa pellets to their diet. Alfalfa pellets, hay and mineral is all I give to my older dry doe and she's still chunky. My kids get oats and sunflower seeds mixed with alfalfa pellets, as much as they will eat in 20 minutes, 2 times a day. Your does might have also had a coccidia problem when young and not be very efficient at digesting.

Here's a pic of Cocoa, my dry doe.

http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1642&stc=1&d=1409937000


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## Rose (Oct 26, 2007)

16% fat in that feed or 16% protein?

They need to be dewormed, wait ten days, so it again, with Cydectin or other wormer that works in your area. NOT Safeguard.

They need more food. You could add some alfalfa pellets. It will take them a while to get used to them.


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## LittleBits (Aug 6, 2013)

Free choice alfalfa, or alfalfa pellets would be best for them right now. I'd work them up to 4lbs a day, of feed, each until you get them to a good weight. Then you can bring it back down to 2lbs a day. 
But they really do need more hay, you want their rumen nice and healthy. "Barreled out" is what you are looking for as far as the rumen goes, and you want a good amount of muscle and subcutaneous fat covering.
The gray doe looks like she needs about 30lbs on her. And about 20lbs for the brown doe.

Definitely worm them both. If you don't have Cydectin on hand, pick up a tube of Quest horse gel wormer (same kind of wormer, moxidectin). Cydectin pour on is 1cc per 22lb orally, quest gel is 1cc per 100lbs orally.

Here is a video on body condition scoring for dairy goats. 



I like to see my does at a BCS of 3-4, milking, pregnant, or dry.


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## WhisperHills18 (Aug 12, 2014)

Thank you all so much for all your help! I looked at the goats eyelids ... Not good :-( the grey doe is white and the brown doe is extremely light pink, very little color. I've only had these girls for 3 weeks, hopefully I don't loose them! A local vet told the breeder of these goats that she should use rumatal dewormers since the worms aren't used to it (she hadn't used this type I guess) I see Manna Pro (sp?) at TSC is rumatal. Any thoughts? 


Delaware.
My first 2 dairy goats (Nubians)


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## jdavenport (Jul 19, 2012)

Get a tube of Quest horse dewormer and dose at 1 CC per 100 pounds (orally). Send a fecal into your vet 10 days later. If you are still getting lots of eggs, try ivermectin. Look in the health and wellness section for dosages. Get them wormed, then get some weight on them. Good luck!


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## farmer_to_be_037 (Aug 18, 2014)

WhisperHills18 said:


> Thank you all so much for all your help! I looked at the goats eyelids ... Not good :-( the grey doe is white and the brown doe is extremely light pink, very little color. I've only had these girls for 3 weeks, hopefully I don't loose them! A local vet told the breeder of these goats that she should use rumatal dewormers since the worms aren't used to it (she hadn't used this type I guess) I see Manna Pro (sp?) at TSC is rumatal. Any thoughts?
> 
> Delaware.
> My first 2 dairy goats (Nubians)


If you go on hoeggerfarmyard.com they have a herbal goat dewormer and it has been proven to work way better than normal wormers. They have done many tests and trials. They are a very reliable seller of goat products.

Owner to-be of two Nigerian Dwarf goats. (1 wether, 1 doeling) 
Harvard, Illinois


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## farmer_to_be_037 (Aug 18, 2014)

http://hoeggerfarmyard.com/the-farmyard/goat-health/herbal-wormer-study-conclusions/
This is a link to one of the studies done on their herbal wormer.

Owner to-be of two Nigerian Dwarf goats. (1 wether, 1 doeling) 
Harvard, Illinois


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## LittleBits (Aug 6, 2013)

That study was only conducted with their herbal dewormer vs ivermectin. Ivermectin doesn't work for a lot of people anymore, and we are recommending Quest, or another moxidectin dewormer. 
And with herbal dewormers, you have to keep up on them, it's not a "one dose, and you're done" kind of thing. If you don't keep up with the herbals, you're going to have parasite resistance to them.


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

Hoeggars is a store. They push their products. They have put down "facts" that are far from the truth and medical treatments that are not the proper way of doing things. They also push products that are not needed just to make a sale.


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## janner (Nov 3, 2012)

farmer_to_be_037 said:


> If you go on hoeggerfarmyard.com they have a herbal goat dewormer and it has been proven to work way better than normal wormers. They have done many tests and trials. They are a very reliable seller of goat products.
> 
> I use Hoegger's herbal wormer and it does keep worm populations in check, but will not help a goat that already has a worm problem. I also back up the herbal wormer by worming with valbazen or ivermctin plus injectable given orally given at least twice, ten days apart before breeding and again at birthing. Worms are nothing to fart around with, they can and do kill goats. You need to make sure you are not underdosing and you need to make sure that the wormer you choose is working by fecals. I would not use Safeguard for anything other than tapeworms and pin/thread worms, but Valbazen and possibly cydectin/quest kill thread/pin worms along with the really bad worms. I have not resorted to the moxidectin wormers yet because I want to have something left in my arsenal.
> If you have another place to put your girls for pooping out worms/eggs, then that is a good idea. Also, paddock rotation is a prime way to control worms.
> ...


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

janner said:


> I would not use Safeguard for anything other than tapeworms and pin/thread worms, but Valbazen and possibly cydectin/quest kill thread/pin worms along with the really bad worms. I have not resorted to the moxidectin wormers yet because I want to have something left in my arsenal.


If you have used cydectin or quest, you have used a moxidectin wormer. Not sure if what you're saying is entirely clear here.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Just to back up the others, yes, get either quest (1cc per 100 lbs) or cattle pour on cydectin (1 cc per 22 lbs). Both of these wormer are moxiectin. The only wormers that really work on barberpole anymore are moxidectin (the quest or cydectin) and levamisole (Prohibit). The pyrantel will not get them. 

If you use the herbs, stick to just using them to reduce the amount of times you have to worm for now. Right now you need to get them wormed and it would take a lot of work to do it herbally. The worms in the study were NOT barberpole worm which causes anemia and is the biggest killer of goats and the herbs in it are not ones that are specific to barberpole (it responds better to fresh garlic, cayenne, ginger, cloves...but treatment is way different than prevention dosing and has to be done every hour or so- I highly recommend you get more goat experience under your belt before using herbs for parasites)


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## Amanda Lee (Aug 20, 2008)

I agree with the Quest horse wormer. I only have 2 Nubians so this is what I buy. Quest also comes in Quest Plus gel... the plus has meds for Tapeworms. Since it is a gel no need to mix the wormer. So paste wormers are not mixed well. It's not enough to take care of all the tapeworms, but some is better than none in this game.

Please run a fecal. Mid American does the fecal for $5 plus postage.


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## janner (Nov 3, 2012)

hsmomof4 said:


> If you have used cydectin or quest, you have used a moxidectin wormer. Not sure if what you're saying is entirely clear here.


I have not used cydectin or quest. I've only used ivermectins and valbazen and safeguard.


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## tinygoatmama (Sep 18, 2014)

Def give them more than a flake. I have four mini dairy goats (nigis &pygmy/dairy x's) and they can easily go through a flake a day WITH browse and hay. I give them free choice hay 24/7 and use the waste for compost and bedding my hens nesting areas. Mine aren't even fat but I believe them to need worming too. Given free choice a square bale last a full week between the four

Leftover treats are good too. Bananas and peels, corn on the cob, fruits and occasional breads.


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## WildflowerFarm (Apr 21, 2013)

Our does get free choice alfalfa pellets and grass hay at all times, in addition to browse. When they are eating grain well, body condition has always been excellent, coats shiny, etc. Definitely worm them, though. It is a good idea to worm after any major stress; kidding, moving, breeding… I hope this goes away for you!


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