# I'm losing Sophie.....



## dvm-mommy (Feb 5, 2009)

That's a pic of Sophie to your left tenderly licking her new doeling....

She is not eating any grain or alfalfa pellets now...nibbles at hay, will take a couple alfalfa cubes.
She has started coughing. She is throwing CHUNKS of cheesy milk out of left half of her udder, so evidently my efforts of clearing up what I saw as a chronic mastitis case when she was given over to me last summer from previous owner has failed. It is not hot , swollen or anything. Still fibrous lumps up high but not as bad as last summer.
She has a fever of 104.2. Not ketotic. Doesn't appear hypocalcemic. Her eyes look so sad....
she keeps grinding her teeth. Did I mention she is coughing? Cough is rattly..ick.


I am exhausted, mentally drained, and getting sick myself from all the stress of the last several days. My house is in shambles, my children have been neglected (emotionally I think), homeschool has gone to pot.
I feel I have done a horrible disservice to my does by not having them on a sound diet in the beginning (shouldn't have fed grain during their dry period and in beg of pregnancy, should have switched to a lower protein hay, etc, etc). I read a previous post Vicki about hypocalcemia...and you mentioned a ketotic doe is usually the end result of poor feeding management by giving too much protein when it is not needed thereby blocking calcium absorption. Ugh. Why oh why could I have not found this board sooner. Why oh why, did Sophie have to be the one mauled? 
I switched to a lower protein grain once we dried them off in December...but kept feeding the coarser first cutting hay for warmth..but it was still a higher protein clover...

PLEASE, someone tell me the kindest thing to do for Sophie is to put her down. I can't see past my own anguish and through my own tears right now. Hubby is adamant to get the pulleys from Home Depot to rig a sling after work. But I feel it is too late...what do you all think???
I read an article on downer cows and those who were down more than 6 hours had a poor, poor prognosis. Granted, Sophie is a goat..but still I seem to remember in my foggy brain that downer ruminants of any species is a bad, bad thing. I cannot get her up myself. I try, and we both give up, miserable. We have tried keeping her on her feet with a towel..but it is too exhausting....... 

I don't have the money to buy a bottle of Naxcel or Excenel right now....I do have LA 200, Tylan inj, Penicillin... 


:down :down :down :down :down :down :down :down :down :down :down :down :down :down :down :down


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## dvm-mommy (Feb 5, 2009)

I came across this info...

"Oxytetracycline is counteracted by milk. Do not use in an animal that is nursing or has consumed milk, because it will not be effective. "

Really? And yet oxytet is good for pneumonia? But I can't USE IT?? Maddening.... :tearhair


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## cindy (Sep 16, 2008)

Hi Lori, I'm sorry.  It's always hard to have things go so badly. I'm not that experienced, but when I've had seemingly hopeless cases, I try everything. Bantamine for pain (because of the teeth grinding), Kayro syrup in water, Ketogold (proplyene glycol) to give her some energy, and penG 2 times per day for the fever. You can't beat yourself up with the could have, would have, should have conversations. Just make notes and learn. It is a steep learning curve. If she can't get on her feet, that should be ok. The propylene glycol and bantamine should help. Good luck, and I wish I had better advise. Cindy


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## dvm-mommy (Feb 5, 2009)

cindy said:


> Hi Lori, I'm sorry.  It's always hard to have things go so badly. I'm not that experienced, but when I've had seemingly hopeless cases, I try everything. Bantamine for pain (because of the teeth grinding), Kayro syrup in water, Ketogold (proplyene glycol) to give her some energy, and penG 2 times per day for the fever. You can't beat yourself up with the could have, would have, should have conversations. Just make notes and learn. It is a steep learning curve. If she can't get on her feet, that should be ok. The propylene glycol and bantamine should help. Good luck, and I wish I had better advise. Cindy


Thanks Cindy...
I am giving banamine IM, I held off of the propylene due to harsh effect on rumen and not being ketotic right now..but you are right, I suppose it may not hurt? I am instituting pen g now. SIGH.

Thanks for reminding me of sweet water. she does like her warm brown sugar water....she loves bananas too but she only wanted a bite last night....


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## mamatomany (Aug 7, 2008)

So sorry, sending prayers your way  I would call Vicki or Kaye directly...if you don't have their numbers to to their website...


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Oh Honey, I am so sorry about your doe :down. I wish I could just come hug you right now. I have no words of wisdom, just a big heart that is crying for you. I hope she either gets better OR you make a decision that will be hard but what might be in her best interests. I do know its hard to put a doe down. I had to do it last spring right around this time. My heart goes out to you. Tammy


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## cloverhillgoats (May 23, 2008)

You might want to get some gum tree leaves, or tree leaves of any kind. Anytime our goats are sick, they really help. Also, baking soda in water as a drench and B12 to help. I'm so sorry you are going through this. I'll be praying for you and peace in your home.


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## Leo (Mar 10, 2008)

No advice, just hugs. I hope she pulls through!
Megan


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Only you can know for sure what to do with your girl but I just know that I held on to a little doe for a long time last winter and when I finally put her down I realized I held on too long and it might have been kinder to her and to my family to let go sooner


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I would take a step back, perhaps write it all down...but if you don't think she is going to have a quality of life because of this leg than yes I would put her down.

We can clear up everything else. It's hogwash the tetracycline info in a milker or kid in milk, there are just some places on the internet to stupid for words.

IF you think you can get her past the leg problem.....

You are going to have to do some homework. You can use pennicillin as an infusion in the udder, while milking her twice a day, you need to clear the udder of the chunks, or stop milking her and dry her up...either way you need to be using the penn (of the 3 drugs you have it's really the only option) for the mastitis. 

But....you have a doe who is down and is very suseptiable to pnemonia, in fact eventually if you can't get her up it is what will kill her eventually. any 200 mg tetracycline with a doe with a fever (Is it from the udder, the leg, the pnemonia?) is given at 3.5cc per 100 pounds subq twice a day until the fever breaks and then once a day until 12 hours passed symptoms. I am fairly certain it's penn and tetracyline you can't give together systemically (I don't use a whole lot of OTC antibiotics) so infusing with the penn and giving the tetracycline systemically is fine. If you read in goatkeeping 101 and it's not penn and tetracycline I am thinking of, than also give penn 3cc per 50 pounds subq every 12 hours.

Of course there is much better drug options including banamine, and I don't give banamine IM when you have to use it sustained like this. You have no choice but to continue with this through the pnemonia, but you can't continue for the relief of the leg or you are going to destroy her liver.

Nobody can tell you what to do....mastitis in a valuable doe, can be taken care of even if it's with an udder you can't use....but add much ontop of mastitis, for me it was a mastitic doe who I was going to keep for bloodline, but when she foundered, no way...I know how much work founder is, and I simply could not make the time for this one doe..I so I opted to put her down.

You have the doelings to replacer her for yourself and the kids...for myself the non weight baring leg, if you can't afford to have it removed, which you would have to get her well for her to make it through surgery, I would opt to put her down right now.

It's so different for someone new in goats and me though. Vicki


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Lori, I'm so sorry! I don't know a thing to help with what you're going through with Sophie other than prayer and sending hugs your way. I do know how you feel, though, about the emotionally neglecting your kids (you feel it even when they don't!) and homeschooling going to pot. Will be praying for you and your decision and situation. Your kids will recover and they're learning something, too, through this--something possibly more valuable than what they'd ever get out of a book. Hugs to you and those kiddos!


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## dvm-mommy (Feb 5, 2009)

Thanks....now I am crying harder....

that's just it....she isn't a valuable doe, not in terms of what everyone here would call valuable....She was "free". I know, stupid me, for taking a free goat. And she was from a good friend of mine who had 40 goats and could not give her the TLC she needed. She really was fine except the chronic mastitis which friend was not aware of - thought she just "milked unevenly".
Sophie would get laughed out of any show ring though my four year old thinks she is beautiful and my 9 year old would do anything for her. She was tromped on, bullied, kicked around by her former herd, but when she came here with her daughter Sasha (who is due in 2 weeks) and sweet Miracle, she became the herd matriarch and did a wonderful job. She has a crappy udder...ligaments breaking down everywhere there are ligaments. Bad teats, etc. But boy, does she put out the milk. Not now. She is even more unattractive since losing her left ear to the dog attack..though being a La Mancha was to her advantage in that it is not SO noticeable.

So I guess my head says one thing...my heart desperately clings to another....it is not an issue of money with amputating leg ( as I could do it myself at clinic). She will only have 2 functional legs as that rear one doesn't operate well either. She was still able to use her wounded leg after the attack as a crutch so she was able to hobble around despite bad back leg. Now that the leg is non weight bearing completely, she then went down (my theory anyway)..or perhaps she got hypoclacemic, went down from that, and then leg contracted in that position from being down and is now not useful. 

I was a little taken aback from the oxytet info...didn't make sense to me, glad you confirmed that, I will go ahead and give her an injection of that and infuse her with pen....I gave banamine IM due to a post about banamine causing abscesses?? I will give SQ once a day She is getting Vit B complex once a day.

I know this is horrible too, but we really need that milk for her babies (she is still giving good milk from the one side..). But I have resigned myself to buying whole cow milk at the store if need be....it is such a hard call. She was chewing some cud just now and had take a few mouthfuls of grain when I offered it to her. I also ask myself how wise it is to keep dumping money into her at this point with her multiple problems. 

Anyway, I am sorry to drag on like this, but typing this out and getting it written down so to speak, is a catharsis of sorts, and now that I am no longer sobbing as I was when starting this reply, I can think a bit clearer. Ok....guess I will get her up and give her what I have. Thanks Vicki for helping me sort this and thanks to all for prayers and encouragement.


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## Jonna (Feb 10, 2009)

Geez, even I am crying. I am so sorry about her. No words of advice except that sometimes part of loving is saying goodbye.


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## catdance62 (Mar 2, 2009)

I am so sad for you...here is a big ((HUG))
Sometimes even when you do everything you know, it doesn't work. The worst part is the goat suffering. I hate to see any creature suffering. When I lost my Bobbie-boo I just cried and cried but I did everything I knew and even called the vet twice.
Having goats is a learning experience. They can't tell us when something is wrong, you just have to learn how to read them.


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2009)

I am so very sorry that this has happened to you and your doe... Your family understands, right now they realize that the doe needs you.. they would not want it any other way if you were to ask them.. Make sure you get some rest, your house will clean later, your kids are fine.. 
Prayers for you, it is a learning experience.. Hugs for you
Barbara


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

You certainly don't want to be drinking the milk or feeding the milk to the kids, from making them ill, to giving them staph mastitis when they freshen, don't use the milk for anything until it clears. Vicki


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Do you have lactated ringers to give to her?? as I would since she isn't eating but like Vicki said don't use that milk for those kids.


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## Sheryl (Oct 27, 2007)

:down I am so sorry. [[hugs]] to you and your family. Sending prayers that everything works out

Sheryl


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## shawhee (Jun 28, 2008)

So sorry Lori. I feel your pain, I just went through a trainwreck kidding and had to loose the doe to save the kid. It was heartbreaking to loose her, but harder to watch her in pain. My family, my house, etc were all fine too - they will be fine. Big hugs to you and so sorry.


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## Theresa (Oct 26, 2007)

I am so sorry this happened. Keep in mind too that if you have to remove that leg, she can't really live with just 2 legs, not unless you find a way for her to get around. I agree with not giving the milk to the babies. You don't need one of them sick. So just go ahead and switch the babies to store bought milk if you don't have another goat milking. They will do just fine. I have raised many on this. And only you will know when and if you should put her down. You don't have to do it today. You can always see what tomorrow brings. If she is better, then keep it up, if not then you can decide at that point.

I really am sorry you have to go through this. It will get better. Don't beat yourself up for what you did not know. Look at all you have learned and how much better care you can give your goats in the future. And you will pass this on to others who come to you with their goats.
Theresa


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## dvm-mommy (Feb 5, 2009)

Vicki McGaugh Tx Nubians said:


> You certainly don't want to be drinking the milk or feeding the milk to the kids, from making them ill, to giving them staph mastitis when they freshen, don't use the milk for anything until it clears. Vicki


 We weren't drinking the milk. The kids got milk only from unaffected half that was mastitis free. I wasn't aware mastitis spread from oral transmission..that is new info for me.

Irregardless, I would not drink or feed that milk from that half anyway. Ick.

Thanks for the advice on the LRS...but we are putting Sophie down. Her prognosis with leg is grim. And lungs full of fluid and an udder that is most likely shot long-term is even worse. Adds insult to injury. I do NOT want to go into work tomorrow :sigh


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## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

I'm so sorry. I know it's a tough decision. I had to make that tough decision with a young one month old filly.  Take care.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

:sniffle :sniffle :sniffle Big Hugs dear from Washington.


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## Bella Star (Oct 27, 2007)

OH , I am so sorry to hear this :down


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## Theresa (Oct 26, 2007)

So sorry. :sniffle :sniffle :sniffle It does sound like you are doing the right thing. You will just have to give her babies all the attention that you were giving her. It will make you and them feel better. 
Theresa


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## ChristinaF. (Dec 2, 2008)

I'm so sorry ((Lori))! :sniffle

Christina


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## redskygal (Dec 30, 2007)

I am so sorry to hear about your doe. Hugs to you and your family.

Kellyjo


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## mamatomany (Aug 7, 2008)

Awww sweetie I'm so sorry - huge hugs and prayers...


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## Legend Hills (May 29, 2008)

Be comforted. Many hearts go out to you this day. I believe you've made a very merciful decision.


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Lori, sending more hugs your way. Theresa's right--cuddle those babies!


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Lori am sorry you have to go through this, but you are doing the right thing by Sophie it is called Tough Love. You really have done so much for her and there just comes a time when we have to make those decisions that we really don't want to make. HUGGs


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## Qvrfullmidwife (Oct 25, 2007)

I am sorry. BTDT too much this past year. Praying for you and your family.


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## Dacaree (Jan 31, 2009)

I am also sorry for what you are having to go through. Putting her down is the right thing to do. It is never an easy decision. My prayers go out to you.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

So very sorry. We'll be praying for you.


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

I'm so sorry. I'm sure that you will use all that you have learned with Sophie to help other goats in the future. It always works out that way. I had a beautiful cat named Sophie. She was blinded as a tiny kitten by an eye infection befpre we got her. A neighbor gave her to me at three weeks old. We had her for 6 years and she did so well and was so happy and even chased flies with no sight. (She had no eye in one socket and severe scar tissue over the other eye, even after surgery). She got cancer from a vaccination and it grew and grew into a horrible disfigurement. We finally put her down and it was the hardest and best thing I ever did. We loved that cat so much. She was so special and beautiful and loving. I miss her still. Putting an animal down is so very hard. I wish both you and her peace.
Anita


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## Qz Sioux (Feb 21, 2009)

I am so, so sorry to hear about your doe Sophie. I can't say anything different than anyone else has said and I know nothing can make you feel any better. I will pray for you and your family.

Suzie


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## mill-valley (Feb 22, 2008)

So sorry to hear this. 

Just wanted to mention...I have heard something about the oxytetracycline/milk combo before. The way I've heard (from a very smart dairy farmer friend) is it refers to giving boluses to bottle calves for scours. Supposedly the oxytet won't absorb correctly if there is milk in the calf's stomach...so it needs to be give a couple hours before or after the milk and not at the same time. ??? Nothing about lactating animals though, or systemic/injected antibiotics.


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

I'm sorry about Sophie. Sometimes it's emotionally difficult to do what is the right thing for our animals. I'm in a similar position. We have a 16 1/2 year old Shih Tzu who is deaf, blind in one eye and has a bad back. He is having worsening problems with incontinance. His long fur gets dirty and he stinks a couple days after his bath, but he gets too cold if I clip him very short. DH and I were just discussing today that it's getting to be time to call the vet. Take care. Kathie


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## RadioFlyer (Sep 23, 2008)

I'm so sad for you. Sophie is very pretty and she looks alot like one of my girls. I'm very sorry.


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## stacy adams (Oct 29, 2007)

All this made me cry too.. I'm so sorry :down


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## donna (Oct 26, 2007)

I, too, am so sorry. Peace to her and your family.


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