# My Curing Dradons Blood is Whimpy!!!



## Huminbird (Jul 22, 2008)

I got 1lb of Dragons Blood from Aroma Haven and it didn't smell to strong oob but I used it anyways. Three weeks later I have a darkish brown bar with dark brown specs throughout and the scent is soooooo weak. Well, it smells nice and all but not the deep dark goodness I have come to expect from Dragons Blood. Also, not the deep dark goodness that my customers have come to expect. A friend was over smelled the new one, said it was okay (his first time sniffing my soap) and smelled the original one from Lillian and really loved that one.

So, do you complain to the company that there is something seriously wrong with their Dragons Blood FO or do I just let it slide? I am going to be short if not completely out of good Dragons Blood due to this for the coming month. This is my best selling bar. What do I name this new, not so smelly scent? Baby Dragon?

Now, for the important question, where can I get quality, Dragons Blood that will turn my bar dark dark and smell so very strongly?

Thanks!


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## nappint (Jun 26, 2008)

Denise (the person who took over for Lillian) is doing a pre-buy on Dragons Blood right now. She is very professional and really, really quick when it comes to closing the buy, ordering and shipping.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Aroma Haven doesn't order from the same manufacturer Lillian did. Each are different, and since they won't tell you upfront who their manufacturer is, it's hunt and peck and guessing, why most don't give out their business info once they have their scents picked, it took a whole lot of trail and error before finding everything which costs money in scent and time in soaping all the duds  Vicki


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## Huminbird (Jul 22, 2008)

Thanks for the heads up on that pre-buy! I contacted her and will hopefully be in on the order. I guess I can wait for it. 

One question, the scents can sit in a cool dark place for a year+ before I use it right? So I should be okay ordering enough to last me a year?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I have never had problems with scent more than a year old.

Did someone soap the scent in this prebuy? Vicki


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## nappint (Jun 26, 2008)

Sorta - I bought a pound from Denise after Lillian quit. Denise got it from Lillian and this is supposed to be the same FO from the same manufacturer. It's good and strong at .5ppo and turns my soap almost black. Sold really well at the market today and got lots of good feedback about it. Here's hoping this new order will be the same.


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## Huminbird (Jul 22, 2008)

I recently talked to Denise and it turns out it is not Lillians formula but her own instead. Maybe it has changed since you last bought some Judy.

She offered to send me a sniffie but to be honest I don't know if a sniffie will work to be able to tell if it is strong enough. 

"This is my own Dragons Blood formulation, not the one that Lillian used to sell. It is very good though"

I am not sure if I should just buy from Tony or try Denise's Dragons Blood.


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## nightskyfarm (Sep 7, 2009)

I have yet to be disappointed with anything I have gotten from Denise or form Lillian for that matter.


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

Thing is, Denise doesn't make soap. So unless this FO's been tested in soap.... I know that there were some that Lillian was selling that didn't work in CP soap. I remember her suggesting that you should just make your CP soap as usual, minus the fragrance, then when it went into gel, stir the FO in at that point, while the soap was in the mold, and voila! it worked for CP soap. Except that I think that that's a really, really bad idea. Or else a really, really good way to have pockets of unsaponified FO in your finished soap. Can you imagine trying to stir a mold full of soap well enough to fully incorporate the FO without it getting all over the place?


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## nappint (Jun 26, 2008)

Crap! Well that's not good at all. Guess I'll be emailing Denise because I'm not going to order as much if it's not the same. Geez why is it so hard to find good fo's!

I remember that whole "just stir it in during gel" and even the newbie I was thought that was totally wacked. :crazy


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

Well, I actually TRIED the swirl in during gel and believe me, it does NOT work. I'm sure she never actually tried it, or would have never suggested it! 

Lillian told me she did not do Dragons Blood when I inquired about it.

I got Dragons Blood from Denise and it was great...but that was a year ago. 

I hate Denise's website, which is why I don't buy much from her. The colors are all wrong for my eyes and I get a headache trying to read those white letters against the dark background...and the print is small... and I DO have 20/20 vision. 

I thought Denise was a soaper and that's why Lillian so highly recommended her? I did get stuff from Lillian I did not like at all, as well as some really good scents I can no longer find. I understand she hot processed, but recently met a woman who claims to hot process and it's really melt and pour...she just calls it hot process. Perhaps she doesn't know the difference, who knows. So far she's asked me twice if I use lye in my soap. Next time I'm gonna ask her where she gets her lye for her "hot process"!


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## Huminbird (Jul 22, 2008)

I believe I will order 1lb from Tony and the next time I visit my sister in Bellingham I will take a trip to Bramble Berries and go to town on choosing scents from them. Heh, if I get a show over there I could write most of it off as a business trip.  I emailed BB and they said their Cybil DB was a richer darker one and their DB was a little softer and lighter.

"Hello Rebecca,

Thank you for emailing Bramble Berry!

Our Dragon's Blood is the one that discolors a little bit lighter. The Cybilla Dragonsblood discolors to a dark brown and has patchouli, rose and musk. Ours has more scents in it including amber, incense, vanilla, patchouli, jasmine, rose and lilac as well as some orange and grapefruit for citrus.

Let me know if you have any other questions or comments!

Thanks and have a wonderful day "

And this from Southern Garden Scents (Tony?)
www.southerngardenscents.com

"Our Dragon's Blood is deep and rich and discolors dark in CP. Please let us know if you would like a sniffy sample.

Thanks again,
Diana"

I remember some "mix in after gel" advice and thought the person was either crazy or only knew how to do HP.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Yeah but the prices! Crazy is the poll on thedishforum.com had them down as resonably priced, sorry but how much soap can you make with scents over $20 per pound? $26 per pound for Dragon's Blood...it is Tony's old discription which I also stole  when he sold out. We need to do a preorder on this forum! Soap scent sold to soapers by those who soap the blasted scent  Vicki


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## Lynn_Theesfeld (Feb 21, 2010)

I like that idea  

Also a list of the best places to buy fo's, more bang for your buck


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## nappint (Jun 26, 2008)

Anita Martin said:


> Lillian told me she did not do Dragons Blood when I inquired about it.
> 
> I got Dragons Blood from Denise and it was great...but that was a year ago.


Hmmm - well maybe I misunderstood Denise when I ordered. I think I ordered in Jan. of this year and I ordered several FO's some listed on the site and some that were not. I checked the bottle and it does have Denise's label so maybe I did get her Dragon's Blood. If so, it's a good one. I'll message her tomorrow and figure it out.



Vicki McGaugh Tx Nubians said:


> Yeah but the prices! Crazy is the poll on thedishforum.com had them down as resonably priced, sorry but how much soap can you make with scents over $20 per pound? $26 per pound for Dragon's Blood...it is Tony's old discription which I also stole  when he sold out. We need to do a preorder on this forum! Soap scent sold to soapers by those who soap the blasted scent  Vicki


Yea Vicki the prices are outrageous (not including shipping) which is why I only order the FO's I "have to have" and I can't find locally and also ones I can use at .5 ppo. If I had to use .7 or 1 oz ppo there's no way I could afford it!

I'd be thrilled if we did a preorder on this forum but I've heard it's a lot of work for the person organizing it. Which I guess is why the Co-ops are expensive?


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## Huminbird (Jul 22, 2008)

I would be in for some Dragons Blood if someone could do a preorder. I really liked getting scents from Lillian if it wasn't for the drama that was stirred up around her.

I guess I soap some expensive EOs so the 26/lb doesn't seem out of this world. When I started I got some awesome deals from someone who had a great big sale and I wish I could get those prices again! I didn't pay more than 20/lb for anything, EOs or FOs. Spoilt me rotten.


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## SherrieC (Oct 26, 2007)

Well, shoot, I just ordered 5 lbs from Denise, now I have had some "problems" but... I feel that I ought to just scrape up the money, buy the EO's that I regularly use by the 35# drum and start offering them to fellow soapers, at a good price. Maybe when I start getting those bus checks again this fall.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Sherrie, some of us are already buying in 25 pounds of our most popular scents and 10 pounds of the rest, so always post first before you buy, if it's who we already use and you will package in the J plastic jugs (they have a handle that is part of the jug, like motor oil comes in?) that holds 10 pounds, I know we would prebuy with you, then you could sell what we don't prebuy an that would help all of us. But I won't buy unless I know who it comes from (so if you don't need more or quit selling it I can get mine) and I won't buy in pounds anymore. And I won't buy unless you have soaped the sample and send us pieces even if it's just smashed in a envelope  It would save us all money, we could both pay for 20 pounds, you would only then have 13 to 15 pounds to keep or sell in pounds or 8 ounce bottles to others. Vicki


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## Huminbird (Jul 22, 2008)

I am not big enough to buy 10-25 lbs yet but can buy 5lbs at a time. I think, if someone is inclined to handle this sort of thing on this site, they would have lots of customers to buy from them.

We will inherit a house someday and I will get most, if not all of the first story for my business and I would like to start this kind of CoOp for soapers. It just takes much more room than I have now in this tiny apartment.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Sorry we sort of derailed your post Becky  V


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## Kalne (Oct 25, 2007)

Yeah....I'm just now at the buying in 5 lbs point. I would do co-ops in heartbeat IF I had more space! I'm very quickly running out of room. Really hoping to do something about that next year.


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## Huminbird (Jul 22, 2008)

Don't consider it derailing, just evolving.

The scents part of the business is the most challenging for me. Both because I am not good at creating scents and because its hard to find consistent quality and price and scent.


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## Huminbird (Jul 22, 2008)

So, I need help renaming the weak Dragons Blood I got from Aroma Haven. Baby Dragon? Dragons Breath? Any ideas? It is quite soft and sweet and my husband says it reminds him of chi tea.

Also, I did quite a bit of emailing back and forth to Denise. She will no longer sell Lillian's Dragons Blood. She told me in one email that she does it on request from Lillian's old customers but when I asked her how large of an order she needed to do a prebuy she told me she no longer wished to carry that Dragons Blood. Eh?!? Oh well.

Anyways, I have a sample of her new Dragons Blood, her own formula and it isn't bad. It seems pretty strong and she says it discolors a dark brown. It is a bit softer and much sweeter though. I did order some and I will let you all know how it soaps and holds scent in a month or so. I don't have high hopes that it is close to Lillian's but we will have to see what my Dragons Blood customers have to say.

I also contacted Bramble Berry and asked them about their Dragons Blood. Their Cybilla Dragons Blood is the one they say discolors really dark and smells pretty heavy. I had my sister, who lives in Bellingham pick me up some and I will see how it turns out. She will visit me in a week and bring it with her. Free shipping 

I have gone over my records and Dragons Blood is nearly my best seller, right next to Lavender so I have to keep this scent going and it should be close to what I got from Lillian. Do you think Denise would be willing to give up the old recipe, especially since she no longer uses it?


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## SimplyE (Jan 15, 2010)

:blush :blush Who are Lillian and Denise? :blush :blush


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Becky, likely no. Sadly it's how it is. Vicki


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## Huminbird (Jul 22, 2008)

Lillian used to sell FOs and EOs on here through coops or prebuys. Drama seems to follow her...

Denise runs http://www.fullmoonherbs.com and has some nice scents. Lillian gave Denise some of her formulas for things like Dragons Blood and her Oatmeal Milk and Honey FOs. Scents that a few of us really liked.


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## a4patch (Oct 7, 2009)

Oatmal milk and honey fo is a recipe? 

Is there a place to find these recipes? Suggestions?


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

No, not a recipe. A formula, that the manufacturer of the FO uses to make it. Lillian had connections with the manufacturers, would buy in bulk (50#) and then sell what she didn't need for her own use. The information on who the manufacturers were and which formulation of say, OMH or Dragon's Blood, they were using for the one that she would buy was/is a secret. A manufacturer might have a bunch of different versions of OMH. She passed that info along to Denise when she stopped selling the FOs.


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## Huminbird (Jul 22, 2008)

Just a heads up. Southern Soapers Dragons Blood is on sale.

http://southerngardenscents.com/ind...oducts_id=73&zenid=rsn7cppdf15plj9en3q7vtgnk0


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## a4patch (Oct 7, 2009)

Thanks Stacey,
Is there a list of the manufacturers? Or are they the names we already know like New Directions Aromatics?


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

Most of the names you know are not the manufacturers. And unless you are planning to order very large amounts of fragrance, you will not be able to order from them. Kinda like wanting to buy your car directly from Ford, instead of through a car dealership.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Most of the bigger places like saveonscents.com give you price breaks at 5 and 10 pounds. To get 25 and 50 pounds you use:

Agilex
Lebermuth
Creative Fragrances
Monarch
Citrus and Allied
Triligoy
I know there are more on my list.

The problem is that they all sell scent or EO's, you can send in dupe's of what you love, it then becomes your scent that nobody else can sell because they don't have the reorder number, so although you may know where I get a scent from, if you order it from them you had better ask for a sample first, because you are then just getting their stock scent, not mine or Brambleberries or ?. Vicki


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## Kalne (Oct 25, 2007)

I was looking at Lebermuth last night....nice price break at 25 pounds. Next year when I get space. Just can't do it now.


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