# SACO cultured buttermilk powder for mother culture?



## Klawbag

I'm trying to get a buttermilk culture going so that I may use it in cheesemaking. I've been reluctant to order a bunch of cultures until I figure out which ones I want. There seems to be so many strands! But in the meantime I'm accumulating lots of milk so I decided to play.

I have a container of SACO cultured buttermilk powder. When I visited their website, I learned they claim this products is a "real" buttermilk not the cultured buttermilk of today's grocery store. I just wanted to find out how to blend it with my milk for a starter culture but now I'm thoroughly confused. 
I've been under the impression that the by-product-of-buttermaking-type buttermilk is not a source of mesophilic culture and one needs to use the "cultured milk" buttermilk to start a mother culture with, like the ones sold at the grocery store... from what I've heard anyway, never bought any.

Can someone set me straight here? I've read posts about starting this culture on other threads but they all seem to be based around the liquid buttermilk first of all, and it seems that none pertain to the buttermaking whey type, the by-product. Am I missing something here?

I did add about 3 tbsp of the powder to a quart of milk just to see what happens for now. I will set it out until tomorrow.....??


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## linuxboy

Meh, that whole "not real" claim is rather iffy, just a marketing gimmick. Yes, buttermilk at the store is just milk with bacteria in it. But SACO's stuff uses a whey additive with the "natural" buttermilk, to which lactic culture is added, and the whole thing fermented, then dried. That doesn't exactly sound "natural" to me. Everyone tried to make a buck in the dairy business, and good for them.

I don't think there are viable bacteria left in SACOs mix. Get cultured buttermilk for a meso starter.


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## Klawbag

Hmmm. Well then I don't think they should sell it as "cultured" eh? I'll see what kind of life form I create in the milk overnight and get some of the good stuff tomorrow  Thanks!


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## Klawbag

Well, you were totally right. 2 days later and I have certainly NOT created buttermilk using the SACO powder. Lesson learned


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## Klawbag

New development in Klaw's biology class...

The aforementioned jar has been resting on a mantle by the stove all this time. Today I opened a store bought organic cultured buttermilk carton and took a big whiff. I noticed the lid on my experimental jar has bulged a bit, so I opened the jar, took a whiff of this concoction and to my surprise, it smelled similar to the store bought stuff. 

This of course being made with the SACO powder buttermilk and judging by the fact that nothing happened in a reasonable amount of time, I've concluded that my milk has simply gone bad. Is that good? Bad milk good?  

I wouldn't use this "bad" milk of course because it was more/less experimental but my understanding is that you can essentially create buttermilk by setting milk out to clabber. Is that what happened here? ewwww lol. I think I may have learned this stuff in grade school.... LOL


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## linuxboy

It's hard to say what type of culture you have propagated in the SACO mix. It could have been airborne. It could have been in the mix, just in tiny amounts, and it took a long time to be reconstituted. It could have been in the milk added to the mix. But regardless, you cultured something. Any bubbles in it like you get with yeast? How does it taste? 

Traditional buttermilk and clabber are different of course, but if you let raw milk set out, yes, it would clabber. Make sure You practice good milk handling, though. Anything in the raw milk will grow quickly, and if it's pathogenic like e coli, then there's trouble.


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## Klawbag

Traditional buttermilk as in the buttermaking whey right? That wouldn't replicate the cultured buttermilk cultures though, would it? Yes there are bubbles but I have been giving it a shake or a turn here and there so I would have thought that was responsible for the little bubbles that rise to the top when I turn the jar around. Mostly it's foam in the cream that's risen to the top. NO, I have NOT tasted it lol I'm just starting to feel better after a 2 week sickness and am not ready to go down the tubes just yet 

I will throw this practice jar away. Just funny when some people say they leave milk out, open to the air and hope for the right cultures, seems like a gamble. To one's health even, if so many things can go wrong. Maybe I should get that microscope I always wanted...

I don't even want to get started on e. coli on this thread... But now you're worrying me Pav! I clean all my milking stuff real well but I don't disinfect every time. I disinfect the udder before/after, each milking and I try to keep the barn as clean as possible and cool milk in brine solution in quart jars. So my understanding is e. coli is naturally occurring, with some strains causing problems right? 

I've been drinking the milk for over a week raw, (pretty new in the body) and went for 3 days with some quality tummy aches and well, gas!  but I really can't blame the milk as I've been sick for 2 weeks, had a friend stay over for 3 days who is vegan, she had serious GI issues for days on end and my husband hasn't had any issues, neither had my milk-hooked neighbors but regardless, you've got me worried about pathogens. Should we start a new thread?


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## linuxboy

Yep, the leftover buttermilk from making cultured butter is what I meant by traditional (as opposed to cultured). If you inoculated the cream with a known cultured buttermilk to make a cultured butter, then yes, the leftover buttermilk would be similar to regular cultured buttermilk. It would have the same bacteria, I mean.

If you just leave the milk open, who knows what lands on it. Highly not recommended. There is one commercial producer I know of who makes cheese from clabber (bonnyclabber), and she uses clabber like a starter. Meaning that her clabber is a multi-generational bunch, and the mix and strains are stable, and will actually suffocate and even actively kill other bacteria.

There's no need to worry in most cases when using clabber. People have eaten clabber and fresh cheese and consumed raw milk for thousands of years. If your animals are healthy, the clabber will be fine. 

If you're really worried, you could get the milk tested or set up a mini lab and do your own plate and e coli counts. But honestly, even in dirty farms, people almost never get sick from the milk. It's very dirty and pasteurized milk that gets people sick. Or at least, the TB, e coli, etc cases related to milk have been related to pasteurized milk processed commercially.


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## Anita Martin

Klaudia,
Just wait until you've been drinking raw milk for a couple of years...I'm sure you will relax about it then. I've been less than ideally clean many, many times with our family milk, and by family, I mean just me because I am the only one who drinks it. The milk I use for customers is a different animal and no shortcuts can be taken with that. The only reason I mention my unsanitariness is that even after letting milk sit out while I've done other chores, the bucket not being cleaned with the hottest water, etc. etc. I've not died yet nor even gotten a stomach ache or diarrhea. 

I'm not saying we should relax our standards at all, but I think with a small, clean dairy herd, the chances of bad bacteria are significantly less than with a larger commercial herd. Anytime you have a concentration of animals, especially animals that are kept indoors, are stressed, have mastitis, etc. the bacteria in the air, on the ground, etc. is going to be higher.

I also feel like with drinking raw milk, and possibly ingesting small amounts of bacteria I would not other wise consume, I'm probably more resistant to whatever might happen to multiply in the bucket on a given day. That's just a theory of my own concocting, but I'm stickin to it!


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## Sondra

Just found this on the net for making your own buttermilk culture from scratch 

involves making your own buttermilk culture from raw milk.

1. Allow a cup of filtered fresh raw milk to sit covered at room temperature until it has clabbered (usually several days). 
2. Place 1/4 cup of the clabbered milk in a pint mason jar, add a cupof fresh milk (does not have to be raw at this point), cover, shake to mix, allow to sit at room temperature until clabbered. 
3. Repeat this transfer of sub-culturing several more times until the milk dependably clabbers in 24 hours. Taste a small amount to confirm that it is tart, thickened, and has no off flavors. It should taste tart not bitter, for instance. 
4. To then make a quart of buttermilk with this culture, add 6 ounces of the buttermilk to a quart jar, fill with fresh milk, cover, shake to mix, allow to sit at room temperature until clabbered. 
5. Refrigerate.


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