# vet says listeriosis



## Sunny Daze (Jan 14, 2008)

I posted about my sick doe...well took her to the vet and as I was waiting she began circling in her crate (first time she had done the circling thing)...vet said what i figured at that point...listeriosis. He said 2cc LA-200 a day (she ways 42lbs). Keep her hydrated, lactated ringers, and banamine. Does this sound right? He wasn't very hopeful...gave her a 50/50 chance. Its killing me to see her like this...just want to do all that i can. I gave her 1/4 cc banamine this a.m. but wasn't sure if I should give it twice a day or just once and monitor her temp...


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

go read the other thread also call Vicki or Kaye as I am not positive but believe it is pen that you should be using


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

OK seaching the web it is 
Listeriosis - caused by the bacteria Listeria monocytogenes, found in soil, water, plant litter, silage and goat's digestive tract. Brought on by feeding silage, sudden changes in kind of feed, parasitism, dramatic weather changes and advanced stages of pregnancy. 

Symptoms - Depression, decreased appetite, fever, leaning or stumbling or moving in one direction only, head pulled to flank with rigid neck, facial paralysis on one side, slack jaw, and drooling, abortions. 

Treatment - Administration of Procaine penicillin every six hours for three to five days, then daily for an additional seven days.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

OK also found this and she used LA 20 per her VET:


> When I first started using Dr. Bev, she gave me a list of things to have on hand LA200, being one of them. She told me then that LA200 was the best to use on Listo. My friend Kim had a Nigerian doe come down with it, this doe was in bad shape, but one of her favorites, so Kim meant to fight it...4 days later the doe was almost back to normal and made a complete recovery. She used the same treatment that I am using. To treat Listo with Pen-G you have to give such massive amounts, every 6 hours..With the LA200 you do not have too. Dr Bev. swears that it works better and faster and after seeing the turn around with Kim's goat, that was the first thing that I went to. Goat Medicine uses a dosage of 40,000 iu/kg every 6 hours until improvement is noted, followed by a 20,000 iu/kg dosage for 7 days. LA200 is 10mg/kg twice a day for 3 days.


This is a lady that I know personally who lives in SC


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## Sunny Daze (Jan 14, 2008)

Thank you! Spoke with Vicki and she said stick to the LA200...trying to get a hold of some Dex, and since vet wouldn't prescribe me B1 trying to find alternatives. There is a post by Kaye that Vicki referenced, and i looked it up and I am thinking 18ml of B-complex will get the amount of B1 she needs just in case...she weighs 42lbs...


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

Are you using straight B complex?? If so read the lable and see if it is 12.5 mg. of thiamine for cc. I believe it is the 1st thing listed on the lable. 
*If * it is Fortified B-Complex then it contains 100mg per cc of thiamine.
Thiamine Hydrochloride is listed on some and just plain Thiamine B1.

For a 42# kid....42/ 2.2= 
dose for thiamine is 10mg/kg or 10mg x 19kg.= 190 She needs 190mg of thiamine. So depending on what your using plain or fortified determines your dose. Every 6 hr.s for 24 hrs. for the 1st day.

Plain B-complex 12.5mg/ml =15.5 cc (193.7mg) close enough
Fortified B complex 100mg/ml = 1.9 cc (190mg)

Hope this helps,
Kaye


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## Sunny Daze (Jan 14, 2008)

Thank you! I have the vit-b complex with 12.5mg/ml. I gave her 16cc...she seemed to perk up a bit and did eat a little, however I also have her some banamine so not sure which helped more. Will keep up with it though, will repeat in a couple hours.. started her on Dex, keeping fingers crossed....


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Here's praying and hoping Glad you called Vicki!!


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## Sunny Daze (Jan 14, 2008)

well, she doesn't seem to be improving much yet. I was doing some research though, could it possibly be ketosis?? Her previous owner said she had to dry her off last year because she was acting ill and she thought it was ketosis (this was shortly after kidding). I bottle fed her kid, milked her for about a month and now she has been dry for about a month...so I thought she made it through the crucial time fine. I came accross an article that said sometimes ketosis can show signs similar to listeriosis...when I read that it popped in my head about her having ketosis in the past...i hate to just throw everything at her though, but she doesn't seem to be improving yet with the dex, LA200, banamine, lactated ringers and vitB. She still can get up and walk, but very uncoordinated and moves along the walls where she can sort of balance...it wouldn't hurt to give the molasses/karo syrup mixture would it?


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## Sunny Daze (Jan 14, 2008)

just checked on her she is munching some hay  still wondering about the ketosis though?


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## Guest (Feb 8, 2008)

IMO.....I wouldn't give her the molassis. Stay close to Vicki's advice with her.

One problem can lead to other problems, or other symptoms that can look similar to many other problems. Some medications can treat the main problem, but you may then have to treat any side effects that the meds may cause. Keeping that rumin in working order is a must. 
If you got a good diagnosis from the vet in this case....then you concentrate mostly on correcting the primary cause of this illness.

Hope you got a vet. that is willing to go out on a limb with you. If they go strictly by the book on treating listerosis in goats, then they will fall some short on doing your goat any good.

I'm usually short on luck, but never on faith. Only when I feel like that I've done all that I can resonably do, do I accept the outcome of things. Then I move on.

Best wishes, Whim


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## Sunny Daze (Jan 14, 2008)

you are probably right, i suppose i am just grasping at straws...she seems at times to feel better, then acts a bit worse again. Hopefully tonight after being a full day on this course she will show a little improvement...it makes me feel a little better that she is nibbling on things, even if it isn't much..


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Nope wouldn't give her molasses except maybe a little in warm water to get her to drink Read Sue Reith's articles on Ketosis in Goat 101


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## Sunny Daze (Jan 14, 2008)

Still no improvement this morning, and if anything I think she is a bit worse. I have also noticed her having what seem like contractions...i heard they will abort but she is not bred, is this normal? Her temp was a bit low this am, 101.2 so I didn't give her the banamine yet, although that is when i can usually get her to eat the most. Should I give her a bit or hold off? don't want her temp to drop too low. She hasn't had a fever since thursday morning. Did get her to eat some leaves and a little hay last night (i had to put each leaf in her mouth one at a time, then she would chew and swallow). Not drinking on her own, still giving lactaded ringers... Neurological symptoms seem a bit worse :sniffle I have been giving b-complex in large enough doses to get the amount of thiamin she would need, every 6 hours, but I am thinking since she doesn't seem really better it probably is not a thiamin defficiency....the vet thought listeriosis b/c of the circling and neurological signs, but the more i read a lot of things can lead to that...everyone else in the herd is totally fine...


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## Sunny Daze (Jan 14, 2008)

does anyone know how soon until i see some improvement if the LA200 is working? I have spoken with several people that have had better luck with Pen G....and of course those who have had better luck with the LA200...she has been given the la200 since thurs evening. Not really improving, a little worse but not significantly. Temp is still staying down (normal), isn't eating or drinking on her own...not sure how long i should keep this course until maybe trying her on Pen...don't want to make things worse though, but not sure how much worse it can get really...


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Don't switch drugs. You won't see a betterment in neuro symptoms until you give a steriod to stop the swelling in the brain. She won't keep herself warm until you get her rumen working with roughage, a subnormal temp is normal when a ruminant is down. Shows you how high some fevers truly are when they are ill. She has alot of body mass, banamine won't bring her body temp down like it is with the warning on giving it to kids with little body mass. If this is listerosis you have to hit it hard and fast with steroids, antibiotics, and even then the mortality rate is high. Sorry. Vicki


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2008)

I've been kinda away for a couple days......and was looking for an update with this doe.

Whim


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## Sunny Daze (Jan 14, 2008)

well, she is still alive! Although until this morning i didn't have much hope. sunday and monday i was having a terrible time keeping her temp up, had her on a heating pad all day. Have been managing to get her to munch a bit here and there, and have gotten a little bit of yogurt in her. I gave her a slightly larger dose of Dex sundya and yesterday as i was grasping at straws. Also got a hold of some B1 on saturday (felt like i was making a black market drug deal  ). Did switch her to Pen (i know i will probably get yelled at for that but i think she was on her way out). She has been getting the thiamin and pen every 6 hours in large doses. Well this morning, she talked to me when i went to see her! Plus she was actually starting to protest when i gave her the shots (up until now she has been silent and still while i had to turn her into a goatie pin cushion). I also think she managed to eat a little of the hay i left with her, on her own! I know she isn't out of the woods yet, but it she is giving me a bit of hope!


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Hope you are still giving lactated ringers also Sounds like she is alittle perkier. Hoping for the best! as this is a slow slow process I know.


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## Sunny Daze (Jan 14, 2008)

yes, definitely still giving lactated ringers!


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2008)

Thanks for the update.
Still Hoping, Whim


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## Sunny Daze (Jan 14, 2008)

Today she is up and walking around (still very wobbly though). She drank on her own for the first time like she hadn't had a drink in a week! (well, it has almost been that long!) I am hoping she will continue to drink well enough that I can back off a bit on the lactated ringers a bit. I hate to have to poke her so much. She is also munching on hay, grass, and leaves and starting to act like a goat again. Yippee! I think she is going to be ok!


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2008)

:biggrin That's such good news......don't know what the survival rate is on lister., but it ain't good.....maybe you got one of those 2 or 3 out of 10 that does get over it.
I would be looking to Vicki or someone who knows, to give you an idea on how to treat her from this point until she is completely over it.


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## Sunny Daze (Jan 14, 2008)

Well, it has been 10 days since gwenivere first started showing neurological signs, and she has now been several days without any!!  She is a little sore and stiff where she was getting the injections, but she is eating and drinking fine and getting around so much better! She has been off the meds for 1 1/2 days now, and I am keeping a very close eye on her to make sure she doesn't relapse. It was a crazy week! Thanks everyone for your advice and input! I really didn't think she was going to make it.... :thankyou


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Congratulations this is so good to hear. Catching and treating listerosis early is the key to survival.


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2008)

:handclap Outstanding !!!


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2008)

Most EXCELLENT!!! good job. Last year, I had a nubian doe named Trudie, that also came down with it.. With the help of everyone here on the forum...Trudie totally recovered..enough so that I was comfortable sending her off to a new home... she never showed any signs of having ever been so sick.
again congrats
susie, mo ozarks


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