# Pregnant FF 2 weeks from kidding - no udder. *Updated*



## NorthOf49 (Feb 8, 2011)

Just wondering if I should start to get really worried about this pregnant FF I have, two years old. She's due to kid Feb 2nd and has no udder development and no softening of the ligaments at all and her vulva isn't puffy like I'm used to seeing. :S 

I'm sure of the breed date: it was a hand breeding and the only day she was in with the buck. I suppose there's a chance she's not bred but she's certainly gaining width sufficient to make one suspect pregnancy and she never came back in heat... no, I didn't do a blood test and at this point I suspect by the time I get results it'll be a moot point. 

She was wormed with Valbazan Sept 4, copper bolused Oct 20th. I have been having trouble with the copper and switched to a mineral much higher in copper in the fall so she could be deficient again but her coat is sleek and shiny. She does have a bit of 'ghost eyes' starting I noticed earlier, but that could just be because she has really big eyes and is all black. It's hard to tell since I'm still sorting out my minerals... can't get any of your good minerals here so I'm working with beef and goat minerals. (and the goat mineral is crap, I determined last year.) Could the Valbazan so close to breeding have messed her up? But I'd expect it would have caused her not to catch, as opposed to whatever this is... 

I suppose it's just wait and see and if she does kid without milk (though I don't know how without softening those darn ligaments) give her oxytocin and hope that'll bring her into milk. 

I'm just wondering if anybody has seen this before and would recommend I go ahead and copper bolus her again (but it's only been 3 months!) or give her Red Cell or something else? She gets pretty much as much alfalfa pellets as she wants and about 1lb of oats/barley mixed grain per day. (I give just enough pellets that she has them cleaned up by next feeding.) I could run a fecal but it's so cold here I doubt any worms are laying eggs. 

Thanks for any help!


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

*Re: Pregnant FF 2 weeks from kidding - no udder. *

With no udder development at all, I would be suspicious that she's not bred. I had a whole group of ff fool me one year. They were just tubby, not breed. I held out to the end thinking they would freshen, but nope.


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

*Re: Pregnant FF 2 weeks from kidding - no udder. *

Some goats just take longer to show the udder development and ligament softening. I have a soon to be FF who isn't due for 8 more weeks and her udder is developing pretty well. Another one is due a day or 2 before this one and she has no signs at all. Last year one of my does didn't lose her ligaments until about 5 hours before she kidded, until then they were tight and solid. Her udder didn't have much in the way of development either until she went into active labor.


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## SherrieC (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Pregnant FF 2 weeks from kidding - no udder. *

I myself heard of 4 ff's last year that had no udder development Or milk after kidding. These were in drought stricken area's though.


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## nlhayesp (Apr 19, 2012)

*Re: Pregnant FF 2 weeks from kidding - no udder. *

I had a ff nubian do the same. She had no udder (only teats like a yearling), no 'baby bump', nothing. I had the vet out for an emergency and had her ultrasound this doe as long as she was at our place. At day 150, the vet couldn't tell she was pregnant until the fetuses showed up on the ultra sound. She delivered twins on day 164 (I know exactly when she bred as we sold the buck the day afterwards). They were tiny and needed extra milk as the mom's udder was still exceptionally small. My daughter milked her twice a day to stimulate the milk production. She went on to win reserved grand at the fair that year.


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## NorthOf49 (Feb 8, 2011)

*Re: Pregnant FF 2 weeks from kidding - no udder. *

There's been a few around here as well kidding with no milk but we didn't have a drought, in fact we put up some lovely hay last year. I can't help but think this isn't 'normal' and therefore must be caused by some deficit I want to fix... ah well, I guess at this point it's just deal with it as it comes. I suppose she could not be bred too... I think next year I'm figuring out how to draw blood and test them if I can find a lab that will accept private submissions in Canada.


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## todog (Dec 10, 2011)

*Re: Pregnant FF 2 weeks from kidding - no udder. *

i have a very large nubian that freshened with a healthy buck and walked away. never got an udder or colostrum or milk. i said it before, she'll get another chance but if nothing then off to freezer camp. her mom gave lots of milk for close to 3yrs.


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## Holly Govero (Mar 26, 2009)

*Re: Pregnant FF 2 weeks from kidding - no udder. *

U know what I have the SAME problem. I have 1 doe that is due next Thursday. She is not making udder at all. But I KNOW she is pregnant. It is my first time to deal with a goat that have no udder. I know when she was bred becuz I handbred her with my buck. I do believe that it is becuz of the drought we had messing my goats up. They look like a crap this year than ever. I am not happy about it.. It scares me. I cannot get alfalfa hay at all this year.. There is NO chaffehaye close to my home. It is really hard and worries me.. UGH It is pretty bad. So I am nervous.. It is not normal for us like this ever. I brought colostrum replacer just in case!


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## Qadosh Adamah Lamanchas (Nov 2, 2012)

*Re: Pregnant FF 2 weeks from kidding - no udder. *

I have a ff doe that has me scratching my head, too. I should have done a pregnancy test when I did the CAE test, but I was so certain she was bred because the buck covered her mid-September and she never cycled again at all. However, there is not the slightest sign of developing mammary nor teat enlargement, and her vulva hasn't gotten "relaxed" at all, either. I've tried feeling for kids, and I *think* there might be a flutter, but then again, it may be wishful thinking. I'm thinking of just butchering this doe this year, anyhow, because she's my fence destroyer. I have a ff doe that's not due to kid until March 2nd, and she has a HUGE udder already. I mean, like two canteloupes smooshed together! :lol


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## PrairieTrail45 (Nov 28, 2011)

*Re: Pregnant FF 2 weeks from kidding - no udder. *

I have a doe due tomorrow who has almost no udder development :/ She is getting relaxed in the vulva, has gotten a bigger belly and has had a huge mood change, she hates it if I try to touch her belly, or touch her anywhere and she used to be super affectionate. I did grab her one day and got her to hold still long enough to feel her udder area, I could feel a bit of a firm area like she was starting some udder tissue, but nothing really definite. Her half-sister is due next Wednesday and is the same way. Her teats have elongated and her vulva is very pink and soft, so I'm hoping they are just very late bloomers. They come from some heavy milking lines too, and are Nubians.

On the other hand, I have a FF Alpine due next weekend and she has a very nice udder, a little over halfway to her hocks. All of them have had the same care, vaccinated and had their Mu-Se about 2 1/2 weeks ago. Copper bolused and they get alfalfa everyday. I guess I will have to wait and see.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

*Re: Pregnant FF 2 weeks from kidding - no udder. *

I had one with just a little udder development, turned out the baby had died halfway through pregnancy for some reason. She had a tiny dead kid and an old half broken down placenta. I couldn't get all the placenta out and had to leave some of it in because she would never dilate properly, e en with two doses of lute. But thankfully no infection and she delivered healthy twins after being bred again.


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## skeeter (Aug 11, 2010)

*Re: Pregnant FF 2 weeks from kidding - no udder. *

I was having trouble with my minerals too. My vet started having me give the does 400mg of vitamin D every other day from October thru March. It's made a huge difference. Like now they can use what I'm giving them better. You're even further North then I.

I did have a FF play with me this year. She developed her udder 2 days before kidding. She kidded one huge doeling.


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Pregnant FF 2 weeks from kidding - no udder. *

I had a doe that did not look pregnant, nor did she even start making any sort of udder until the day she kidded. She had single doelings both times.


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## NorthOf49 (Feb 8, 2011)

*Re: Pregnant FF 2 weeks from kidding - no udder. *

Just to update the thread: the doe kidded 3 days overdue with twins and both were stillborn. The first was a buck headfirst feet back and she delivered him as is in about 5 minutes... by the time I realized it was a head no legs she had him so far out I figured it would be harder on her to push him back in than to just let it all be. He had milky eyes so I'm guessing dead for a bit? Otherwise they both looked full-term except both still had skin over their incisors. The second was a doeling and her eyes looked normal. The doe never really dropped her ligaments and has not come into much milk. I gave her oxytocin and since she hasn't passed the afterbirth yet and is also on penicillin as per the vet since the buckling may have been dead a bit. It did seem to be a sluggish labor at first (just the amniotic sac and few contractions for over an hour) but then once she got things going the two came pretty quickly. I did bring the fetuses to the vet for a necropsy as I'm worried. Not a good start to the kidding season.


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

I'm sorry to hear that, Christine.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Aw I'm sorry. Wonder what happened  I know with my doe that did that, I was unable to get her to come into milk. Her kid had died about halfway along though. Good news is she bred right back in a couple months and kidded in the fall with a couple gorgeous kids and I've kept the doeling who I really like. In fact, she's my only goat milk source right now since Savanna had the milk fever! So it worked out anyway.


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

Aw sorry


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Sorry this happened. Glad you're getting a necropsy.


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## NorthOf49 (Feb 8, 2011)

Thank you all for the support! I'm pretty disappointed since I've tried so hard this year to do things right and have a good year. :'( I've started a new thread for the dam since I'm worried about her... any help would be appreciated though in some ways there may be little to be done. Thanks again.


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