# meso. culture from clabbered milk



## mulish (Apr 26, 2009)

didn't want to hijack the starter culture thread, so started new one.

when using clabbered milk to culture, what's a good timeframe/temp for clabber and do you have a recipe suggestion for this type culture?

thanks!


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## linuxboy (Oct 26, 2009)

Due to the complexity of clabber cultures, you will get different strain dominance based on the temp at which you culture. Room temp vs 80 vs 85 vs 88 vs 92, etc. Meso optimums are generally 88-102. Bacteria are such a regional phenomena that you have to experiment until you find what works for you in terms of taste. Never go above 104.

as for the time, the marker for when to stop or arrest culture metabolysis is a pH of 4.6 for meso bacteria. Thankfully, this is also the isoelectric point of milk, meaning the point as which milk curdles and becomes solid. So use that as your guide. Put in fridge or freeze or use or dump and reculture using fresh milk and some of the existing clabber, or neutralize the acid with a base when the milk has solidified.

Use clabber at a rate of 2-3% in place of meso starter, like you would with a mother culture. You can also make a lactic-coagulated cheese with it and then apply rind or molds for flavor development. A blue done with all clabber and no heating is amazing, for example.

Hope that helps. Clabber is a changing organic type of thing, but your populations will achieve equilibrium after 2-3 weeks if you keep using it, similar to how sourdough starter does.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Such great info Pav
Before internet and catalog ordering with credit cards and yah- in the good ole days
That is all we could do- Get a culture going that works and try to preserve it.
We used to pour out 2 gallons of fresh milk in a shallow enameled dish pan and let whatever happen!
Then take a pint of that and put in the fridge to start the next batch. It was some tasty stuff once it matured.
We were just going by what we could glean from ole timers word of mouth without the science to back it up.
Glad to know why it works.
Lee


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## linuxboy (Oct 26, 2009)

I remember back in the old country (I'm from Ukraine), when I was a kid, we would get a little milk from the neighbor who kept a cow. And if you let it sit, it would make this wonderful clabber that could then be drained to make tvorog... which is a sort of fresh farmer's cheese. It was amazing. The milk coagulated, but it was not sour, not like the sour you get if you add cultures. So it made this lactic curd with the fresh sweetness of the milk and butterfat. My dad and I would eat it with some bread for a meal and get back to work on the farm.

I have a weakness to this day for fresh milk, or fresh clabber, or simple cheeses made out of necessity instead of fancy science. Funny, because I'm a little... ahem... occupied with the exactness of dairy science.


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

> I'm a little... ahem... occupied with the exactness of dairy science


Not you, Pav!!! :rofl


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## Klawbag (Feb 23, 2010)

Pav,

Your post on the "old days" took me back to MY fatherland, Poland. I was just reminiscing a little reading about your tvorog. I remember it like it was yesterday. (well, it was more like 18 yrs ago) My one ambition is to make that cheese in my kitchen. I might die happy then! Thank you for the warm memories! oh AND all the mad scientist information  I've been happily clabbering milk since your last reply to my butterculture thread

Who would have thought I'd be so intrigued by milk gone bad!


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