# Mastitis, milk vein swelling, etc



## Creamers (Apr 4, 2011)

Mastitis, milk vein swelling, etc

I have two FF Nubian does. Both were vaccinated with lysigin.
They are 3 and 4 months fresh.
The one lost her kids during birth, so she has been milked all
Of this time; however, the other doe (her full sister) was dam raised her
Kids until Monday, when they were sold. We were milking her in the evenings
For the week prior since the kids had not been nursing enough to keep her 
From being fairly full. 
Tuesday I noticed one side on the doe that had the kids felt hard – like a golf ball
Sized lump and a bit of heat – I did a CMT test on both sides, and the one side had a 
Slight 1 reaction. 
I infused that side with Tomorrow (I have never had any luck with Today – but in past cases of mastitis, today has always seemed to really help quickly) and we started daily injections of biomycin. The next day, I tested the milk again on both sides, the other side was now a 1 and the side I infused a 2. The milk vein was a lot larger along her belly, and the side that had the knot was now hot and though not totally hard, and the knot was now several much larger lumpy masses. The other side has the start of a few lumps.
Her sister seemed to have a few lumpy spots in both sides – CMT tested and she had a 1 and 2 reaction on one side and the other. 
I’ve done infusions after each milking and daily biomycin since – 
Then tonight, though the udder on the first doe seems to feel better and far less hot to the touch, the milk vein on her belly is a LOT larger and now there is concentrated swelling through it and it is pretty unusually warm to the touch. . . touching it doesn’t hurt her at all.
Neither doe is off feed, neither seems to feel anything but totally normal – though the one side of the udder is naturally sensitive on the first doe.
Milk production is very minimal – it seems are if the udder if ½ full on both, but each are giving a 1/3 of what they would normally give – milk looks normal, not clotty, not stringy. 
I suppose ideally I should have – prior to treating – mailed a sample in – but I just didn’t want to mess around and let it turn into the messes I’ve dealt with before.
These does were pulled from their dam last year at 4 weeks when she had a case of mastitis that nearly killed her – I’m assuming they might have been carrying it from her all this time? At least, people have told me that is possible. 
Any suggestions? The milk vein swelling is freaking me totally out – my vet has no idea. . . his suggestions are fairly nuts with mastitis.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

I have always had garlic by mouth work real well for mastitis. You can use it along with other therapy so it can't hurt. I take a whole bulb, chop it up and then mix it with a small amount of molasses (black strap) and a little acv but those last two aren't required. A lot of the time you can just put this on their feed and they will gobble it down. I would give 2-3 times Per day and like I say you can still use other antibiotics with it.


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

With our doe last year that had mastitis, I pulled milk samples from both sides and took it personally to the lab. They got back to me the same day, and then did a sensitivity test to see which antibiotic she needed, whether it was gram positive or negative, etc. I was then able to get proper treatment from the vet, which included pirsue infusions and a different antibiotic. You can also do mega doses of vit. c, but do make sure she's getting the right antibiotic for the type of mastitis she has. Starting her on it late is better than not starting her on it at all.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

And also, you can start her on treatment as soon as you get the sample, but you have more info coming so you can change treatment to what's recommended if your original try isn't working.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Even if you don't want to take time to take a sample in, or send it to LSU, always pull milk from both sides, and put those into the freezer. Then when you guess wrong on your drugs, which you have done now, you can send it in....or send it in and start treatment, switching when you have to. The problem with tetracycline is that you now can't add pennicillin for gram positive protection. Any other antibiotic guessed with you could have. 

When guess get excennel or naxcel, you can add pennicillin (well not add it but give it at the same time) if the sensivity comes back and you can use it, most of the time you can...nearly all the time you can use Naxcel.

The problem with guessing and using something like tetracycline is that you have to use high end dosages, subq...while vet scripts you can use IM because the dosages are smaller...and with all disease process use banamine, it is an anti-inflammatory which is exactly what is going on in your doe....Mast is breast and Itis is inflammation of. Getting the inflammation down will help her not build scar tissue. Infusions also....is the drug in tommorrow going to work on the mastitis they have? You don't know but it does have to be used 3 times, 12 hours apart, and with the systemic antibiotics you should see improvement quickly. When you don't, or it's worse with now more of her udder envolved, you have guessed wrong. Call LSU or your local lab, tell them what you have used and ask them when withdrawal is to send in a sample. Other than banamine, do lots of milking while you wait for results...in the case of a valuable animal or your only milk supply, I would find a local lab to wait on the result...call or email us back, we can put together a pretty decent guess for you while you wait for sensitivity to come back.

Lysigin is for staph A and staph dermatitis, if this is staph A the vaccine will keep the does from getting a severe case of it and make it treatable. 

Do you have a diagnosis of what kind of mastitis your dam had? It can also be enviornmental, like ecoli. Vicki


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## Creamers (Apr 4, 2011)

I never thought of freezing a sample. . . 

Now that I've been treating, is it not too late to use the milk for a sample?

I am happy to send in the samples, but I had just been told over and over - you can't test the milk after treating. . . and
it never entered my mind to freeze then test. 

This morning, the lumps in the milk vein are gone and the udders feel a lot more soft, milk production is up.
Still - the masses in the first doe's udder are large. . .though must smaller. . .can't feel any real lumps in the second doe.
But neither seem empty when milked out. . .

I went with what worked on the dam. With her, I started with Excennel and tomorrow infusions - per the vet.
It did nothing. It did not start to clear until I changed over to Tomorrow (Pen G infusions) and tetracycline.
Did not test with her because, for whatever reason, my silly vet didn't mention it. . . and her case was hard and fast
and needed something done quick or she'd never have made it. I didn't think to freeze some before treating, but wish I had.


These does have not seemed down or off at all, but I thought since I've been told that mastits can pass to kids. . .they likely 
were dealing with what their dam did, so if I had to guess, thought I had better go with what worked for her. . .
but the milk vein being SO large and those huge lumps, which have gone down today, totally freaked me out. 

I'll give banamine - again, never thought of that being helpful, but that makes sense - how long is it really safe to give the banamine?

I have naxcel on hand. . . so it is too late for that because of the use of tetracycline?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Excennel is the same drug as Naxcel, so if it didn't work don't try it again, perhaps if your dosages were way off you could try. Can you snap a photo of the foreudder? Bulging milk veins and knots are perfectly normal in dairy goats. Vicki


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## MayLOC (Oct 26, 2007)

also, my local lab gives me preliminary results at 24 hours and then gives final results and a sensitivity after that-48 hours I believe.
so having and using a local lab can get you results pretty quickly.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

How do you go about finding a "local lab"?


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## MayLOC (Oct 26, 2007)

your vet would know the local labs. You could google for state and local labs and you could ask others in your state and area. -


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Do you know a dairy cattle farm in your area? Ask them. Vicki


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## Creamers (Apr 4, 2011)

The bulges are down a lot on the belly - the second doe now seems clear, but the first with the really large
bulges and the hardest udder is only showing minor improvement. 

I haven't tried the excenel on these does, just on their dam, and I thought this case with them was likely 
from being on the dam when she came down with it, though that might certainly be wrong. . .since it didn't help
their dam's case. . . 

BUT I've done 5 days of infusions with Tomorrow and 5 days of the biomycin. . .and so I am going to see what the
vet thinks we should do now for the first doe. . .

I'll get a photo of the udder and foreudder tomorrow . . . 

There are no working dairy farms here anymore, but we do buy hay from a man who owned the last working dairy
here years ago, so he might know. . . 

The vet, though he is a good large animal vet and great about giving me any meds I ask for, doesn't deal with dairy animals,
so he never even suggested testing on their dam . . . but surely he will know how to get samples to a state lab. . .

SO. . .

Is it far too late to test the milk? Yes, right?

Is it too late to do a new antibiotic or pirsue?


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## Rose (Oct 26, 2007)

You can ask LSU's staff how long to wait after treatment before taking a sample to send in. It was only a few days on one of mine that had been treated as per their instructions, and I was wanting to retest to be sure of success.

Here's the info for them:
Mastitis Testing
Ship to:
LSU Ag Research Center 
Hill Farm Mastitis Lab
3380 Highway 79
Homer, LA 71040
(318) 927-9654

OVERNIGHT AIR

Take a sterile sample in a whirl pak (from the vet) or a red top test tube.
Freeze, and ship in styrofoam shipping box with a gel pak on Monday. 
The testing is free. The shipping will make you bug eyed.

Ship OVERNIGHT AIR with UPS!

Note: I keep a stock of small styrofoam shipping boxes on hand now. They are great for shipping milk as above and blood for pregnancy or CAE testing. These boxes are available from: http://www.mrboxonline.com/6x45x4-mi...rs-p-4394.html


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## Creamers (Apr 4, 2011)

I haven't treated in the last 5 days - would I be able to test the milk now? The production is up,
the does seem to feel 100% normal, but the one does still has one side with massive lumps (I'm dealing with my own personal case
of mastits, and her udder feels about like mine :laughcry :laughcry) - though smaller than before - 
my vet said he didn't think the state lab tests. . . 
I have Naxxcel and Pirsue on the way from Valleyvet.com


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Please call the lab you are going to use, tell them what you have used on her and they will tell you when you can send lab tests in. If she is not ill, just lots of milking, vitamin C and please wait for the lab results to be called into you before you try yet more drugs.


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## Creamers (Apr 4, 2011)

Another question is even though they are positive on the CMT test - could these masses be anything else? Is it logical that they would appear and suddenly the does are positive and the lumps be anything else? They are so hard - but around them, the udder is fairy soft and not hot (to begin with - the one side on each doe was hot and fairly firm all over though).


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## supermom (Feb 24, 2009)

Just an FYI.....in case you don't have immediate access to red-top tubes, Dr. Owen told me to sterilize a baby food jar. I've not tried this because I have the tubes, but he said the jars work great.


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## Creamers (Apr 4, 2011)

Spoke to the man in the LSU testing clinic - 
he said it likely would be fine to test it now, and he
said it is also fine to us the Express mail USPS -
Just ship to this address:

LSU Ag Research Center 
Hill Farm Mastitis Lab
11959 Highway 9
Homer, LA 71040

usps is half the price - less than $30 
he said to us 5 of the ice packs inside.


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## supermom (Feb 24, 2009)

For those of you in a border state of Louisiana, I wanted to tell you to check with FedEx before you pay for overnight shipping. Regular ground shipping from North Texas to LSU is only $10.90 and it gets there overnight. I had a neighbor paying overnight for close to $40 when she could have been shipping regular ground for under $11 for the same delivery date. FedEx sure doesn't let you know ground is already next day.


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## mamatomany (Aug 7, 2008)

for sending in samples, I use breastmilk storage bags


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