# CIDR's



## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

Well from all the info I am gathering there's multiple ways of using the CIDR's ranging from just using them alone with no shots to using them with the Lute/PG600 to using them with cysterillin and I know that's spelled wrong but you hopefully get what I meant! If I can't get the PG600 from the vet can I do with out it?? I have a doe who has CIDR in her now and would like to remove it this weekend...I have the lute....but will have to get the PG600....how much of that do I give? She'll be kidding as a 2 yr old FF next year. 

I have a doe we put a CIDR in back in May....I removed it and didn't give her any shots ...left her with the buck for a couple weeks and have yet to see her come in heat....she'd be due at the end of Oct early Nov if she bred and settled.

Anyway back to the doe above, when will she be in heat after the CIDR is removed, when do I give the shots....ect ect She's being bred to at outside buck which is why I decided to use the CIDR....

Thanks in advance!!


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Only lutelyse and Cysterellon are vet scripts. Jeffers carries PG600 and CIDRs as does pipevet.com No more boot legging in CIDR's from Australia 

We used lots of protocols in the beginning, many of them don't work, and some make little sense. I Cidr the doe, then the morning of day 21 (which is her natural cycle so for me it makes sense  I give her 1.5cc of PG600 IM (you HAVE to give hormones IM in a good muscle shot) and pull the Cidr 12 hours later that night and put her in with your buck of choice the next morning. 

Cysterellon is for does who are cystic (usually fat, fat stores estrogen which causes inflammation which causes cysts to form over the ovaries so eggs can not escape the snot) cycling over and over, standing for the buck multiple times, 7 days later, 7 days later etc.. By using Cidr's, pg600 and then when you see the buck breed her, literally pull her from the pen and give her 1cc of Cysterellon, again IM, it will break the cyst encapsulating the egg on the ovary and she will ovulate.

There are lots of ways of doing this that bring on heat, but many of the ways don't bring on ovulation, so what is the point?

We had excellent results helping a dairy up north get cycled in season last year with 25 does kidding one weekend and 25 does kidding the next, all with CIDR's and 2 bucks! 

Chlorhexideen is what you use to clean the CIDR's in fact in cows better conception rates were had when the CIDRs were pre cleaned in chlorhexideen. The CIDR's can also be cleaned and used twice, they are afterall simply a plastic applicator bathed in progesterone, there is enough to use again. But do not use them the third time, you will read this in old posts even on here, I got zero conception rates using them that 3rd time! Also make sure info you read is current because this is all new technology in goats, certainly not older than a decade. Vicki


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Vicki-Are you saying that the CIDR doesn't cause ovulation by itself, just causes them to go in heat with no ovulation? Is that what the PG600 is doing-causing the doe to ovulate?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

No I was talking about other ways of inducing heat, lutelyse for instance, it doesn't force ovulation. Honestly even the protocol of using lutelyse in your CIDR protocol, doesn't make sense why it would be used when your hormones you need are in PG600 already...why use both. PG600 brings down the eggs, given in higher doseages many had litters, litters in young does end in abortions of live kids that lungs are not mature and quickly die when the young does cervic opens because of the weight of the uterus (4 and 5 kids), before term. So for me CIDR's are used with PG600. 

Vicki


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## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

How long can CIDRs stay in the does? The vet doesn't have any PG600...


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## Daniel Babcock (May 28, 2008)

So as I understand it:
1- insert CIDR
2- day 21 give 1.5 cc PG600 (in morning)
3- that evening remove CIDR
4- Next morning place in pen with buck

Is this correct Vicki? I will be doing this for the first time soon. Thanks


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## ksalvagno (Jul 8, 2011)

I'm extremely new to all of this. Is using CIDR a common practice? If the females need the CIDR, is this a female we really want to breed and pass that on? I'm coming from breeding alpacas and while people would use progesterone to keep their problem females pregnant, it just seemed like a bad trait to pass on and I chose not to do it. I'm just trying to understand what the CIDR is all about and why do it. Thanks


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## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

I'm using them to get them to breed when I want them bred. I only put CIDR's in two does. One was out of season and the other is going to an outside buck and since I work I don't want to miss her heats. I can't check them morning and night on days I work.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Karen I know what you are talking about....does who abort, so to keep the pregnancy some will use progesterone to keep that pregnancy going, just like women. Goats and all mammals can have incompetent cervix, where the cervix simply doesn't hold once the pregnancy hits a certain weight, and we have talked about simply inserting a CIDR, pulling it at 21 days and reinserting a cleaned one, instead of using progesterone shots. I would not leave the CIDR in more than 21 days without pulling and cleaning and reinserting because they sort of stick in the vagina, it's not like an IUD (in the uterus device) which can technically embed also, but not like the vagina with it's natural fluids it makes for cleaning the vagina.

This is different, this is about synchronizing your does so they all kid on a weekend, perhaps you work so you only have a week off in the spring. OR you want your does to kid in November since most of the spring freshened does are stale and you really need that new flush of milk for winter milk sales...if a doe isn't in heat and ovulating she can't freshen and few does are in heat in May or June. Use lutelyse and your lucky to get a 50% conception rates, CIDR's very very dramatically increase that rate.

Order you PG600 yourself from jeffers, valley vet, pipevet.com etc... And even if vets carry it, depending on vets and farm stores like Tractor Supply is simply to expensive over the long haul!


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## Candy (Jun 4, 2009)

So I just looked into this...
CIDR from valley vet says for sheep. Is this the same for goats? 
I have been interested in this but never really understood. This thread has helped me. Thanks.
Bernice in TX


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Yes we use sheep Cidr's....cow Cidr's won't fit  V


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## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

Thanks for information! My friend can get the PG600.


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## ksalvagno (Jul 8, 2011)

Thanks for the info. I understand it much better now.


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## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

The info she has is different than what is on here...I'll add the info to this thread sometime today or tomorrow...at work right now...


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

My experience with CIDR's is that I just used them (goat sized ones, sold as 'goat CIDR's) for my first 'batch' of upcoming fall kidders (I need winter milk). I ordered them without any trouble from Bio Genics, got them in a few days. They gave me a protocol, but later on I asked some questions on this forum and Vicki gave me her protocol, so I decided to go with that (her words: 'I use the protocol that WORKS', that won me over!). My results as I could see today when I transferred my CIDRed ladies over to a close-up pen: It really looks like the breeding went well and most of them are pregnant. Have my doubts on 3 of the 16, but those aren't due until after October 15 and just might not be showing a whole lot yet. I did Day 1 CIDR in, Day 21 morning EXACTLY 1.5 cc PG600, Day 21 evening CIDR out, Day 22 afternoon put doe in with buck. In some cases I left the doe in with the buck for a day or 2, other cases the buck bred right away. It seems the does generally come into heat about 18-30 hrs after removal of CIDR, with the majority coming in around 18-20 hrs after CIDR removal.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Can the CIDR be used by itself without the PG600? Is the purpose of PG600 only to have the doe release more eggs, or does it serve another purpose? What exactly is the PG600? Does the PG stand for prostaglandin by chance?


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## Ziggy (Nov 13, 2009)

The protocol I got from an experienced AI technician is a total of 7 days ( pull CIDR after 120 hours) and uses only 1 cc of pg600. aI is 52-55 hours after pulling CIDR. I have been told by friends they got good results. Sure hope it works as I am using some very rare and expensive straws


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Ziggy if a doe has just had a heat will 7 days of progesterone bring her back in and get her uterus ready for implantation.. let alone have another batch of eggs ready to be ripened if she just ovulated? I think the cleaning before hand of everything, vulva, gloves, cidr and applicator with chlorhexiderm....and mimicking the 21 days cycle of most does is what really is working here, and of course the PG600 which guarantees that at the end of that cycle you have eggs for the semen to inseminate. Vicki


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## Ziggy (Nov 13, 2009)

Well that is what I was worried about (the short time) but I am going to try. I should have added that this protocol also involve giving 2cc lute at CIDr insertion time.


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## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

Thanks for the information. My friend will follow this protocol(1.5cc pg600) for my doe. I don't know the lady who she got the information from. But she trusts her enough that she's going to follow the other info for her does. Vicki you can delete the info I posted if you want. I'm not able to edit my post from my phone.  thanks again!


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## tlcnubians (Jan 21, 2011)

Ziggy - it may be that your protocol is the one used for dairy cows, as I read it on the cidr.com website. The dosage and administration for the sheep CIDR can be found here: http://animalhealth.pfizer.com/sites/pahweb/US/EN/Products/Pages/CIDR.aspx and here:
http://www.pfizeranimalhealth.co.nz/sites/pfizeranimalhealth/Pages/Eazi.aspx?Species=Sheep.


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## Ziggy (Nov 13, 2009)

Yes - I have seen that but it is definitely for goats and comes from a well known semen collecter and AI instructor who collects all around the country. I have seen many versions ranging from 5 to 21 days. The argument that I have heard is that less time with the CIDR in is less time for infection, irritation but it seems awfully short. I guess I will know in a month or so.


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## Ziggy (Nov 13, 2009)

I do see from your link that it is 5 days for sheep so that is interesting....


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Yet Ziggy the 21 days I do came from vets and their clients who have CIDR'd sheep for decades. Keep us posted....and on the infection info, it is not as if the CIDR goes into the uterus. V


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## Ziggy (Nov 13, 2009)

I will. I am thinking I will draw blood or do ultrasound at 30 days if I don't see them come back in heat. I don't want dry does in spring or to be guessing for 5 months


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## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

I'm going to draw blood on Abby to see if she's bred since she's going to an outside buck. I done that with the two other does that I bred to an outside buck.  I really hope Abby settles she's being bred to Kastdemur's AUK Big Kahuna.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/U/UNP-0095/UNP-0095.html


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## Ziggy (Nov 13, 2009)

Very similar to what I used except Cam has told me you can do 5 days and any longer doesn't make a difference. We AI ' d six does on August 28th so should know by October how successful (or not) we were.


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## Red Mare (Apr 23, 2011)

Great thread. Very very informative. 
My vet is Dying to try AI on the goats, and I was unsure how 'goat folks' did it. 
This really helped explain it to both of us!


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Did it work Ziggy?


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## Ziggy (Nov 13, 2009)

I sent in blood to Biotracking on Monday. Waiting for results.


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## Ziggy (Nov 13, 2009)

Hoping it made it there for their testing deadline this week otherwise it will be another week before I know


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Ziggy I am waiting at the same time! I didn't get mine sent until Tuesday, so we shall see. Vicki


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## Tracy in Idaho (Oct 26, 2007)

Looks like my 2 AI'd on the 14 day CIDR have both settled......another that was live bred also seems to have settled just fine.

Lute on day 13, PG600 and pull CIDR day 14....in heat day 15, AI'd day 16.


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