# Lamancha Wether-castration infection



## CBegins (Jan 26, 2011)

He is/was very healthy at castration. 2 months old, still being bottle fed, fresh cows milk, dewormed, given corid, cd&t every 3 weeks from 6 weeks on. He and his twin brother browse with 2 older doelings and have as much as they could possibly eat. Little bit of grain for treats. So it has been about 2 weeks since banding and I noticed a couple of days ago he wasn't as perky as normal, thought maybe it was because he was embarassed that he was the one that got sprayed by the skunk the night before. :blush I checked the castration site. Band is intact, area above band is swollen and ugly. There has been some drainage. Gave him a shot of LA 200, 4cc. I cleaned it up as well as he would let me. (he thought he was dying) Sprayed it to keep bugs away and used a wound dressing that my vet custom makes. It's called Etterville Red. He won't give me the ingrediants....says he is going to patent it. Dr Marc Markway in Eldon MO. I use it on every thing. That was two days ago. So tonight, I was looking at it, no drainage, no smell but I am concerned about what I am seeing. I realize there is a moderate amount of swelling but I see an area that is white that is in the front of the dehydrated scrotum. Directly infront of that in the good tissue I can feel the penis. I am concerned that I can "see" the penis. When I banded him, I made sure the band was not too high and there was probably 1/4 to 1/2" of skin between the band and his abdomen. But he really complained alot compared to his brother. His teats are well off to the side. This is my first experience with goats, I just blew it off as him being a drama king. Maybe, I was wrong. 

What else should I do for him. He is still up and eating well, just not perky, don't think I would be either.


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## peregrine (Dec 9, 2008)

CAn you take a photo? If there is no smell, and you have cleaned it, I would say it's all going to be fine. My thing is nolvasan flushes on anything that seems remotely infected or inflammed. It works like a charm. The only other thing I can suggest is to spray something on it called Derm Spray ( I think its called this). They gave it to me when I was post partum after 3 births. It has a cooling affect, plus lidocaine. It stings a little though on broken tissue, so maybe not. But something like that, a lidocaine spray of some kind might make him more comfortable. YOu can find at the pharmacy....Also maybe a little banamine to get him through a couple days?


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## CBegins (Jan 26, 2011)

I can get a picture tomorrow. I will need my husbands help but it's doable. I will be checking with Doc Markway tomorrow to see if he has any suggestions tomorrow and I will pick up some banamine. I will see if I can get him to tell me what is in the Etterville Red. Knowing him, it has lidocaine in it. But will double check. 

I am an RN and the nurse in me really wants to cut off the dead tissue below the band. Get rid of the dead tissue and clean it up really well. If he was a human that is exactly what I would do. The scrotum is completely dehydrated. Above where the band is I am seeing muscle tissue which is not normal. May be from the swelling, I don't know. Gonna give him another dose of LA 200 tonight.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Absolutely cut off the dead scrotum, this will open everything up so you can debreed the dead area and treat it. Many boer goat breeders simply keep the band on until the testicles are dead/cold and then cut the testicles off right at the band. 

Band castrating either works really well or it doesn't and it can get gruesome quickly. Many kinds of bacteria seem to also be flesh eating now, they are uncontrollable very very quickly. Very honestly if this is a wether that is simply destined to be meat, I would have butchered him at the first sign of infection rather than wasting the drugs and all this time on a wether and now all this drug meat withdrawal. I would have chosen penicillin for this wound infection it's one of the few things penicillin is good for anymore.

When band castrating you have to be very careful that plumbing isn't pulled into the site, or teats are not pulled into the site...we also spray the site weekly with a disinfectant which also puts the wether up on the milkstand so I can really look to see how well it is progressing.

Chlorhexideen not only is a superior cleaner of wounds but it treats staph and is conditioning to the new skin, it is the best disinfectant, antiseptic being used for both gram negative and gram positive bacteria. Vicki


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## CBegins (Jan 26, 2011)

Ok, so with the help of my husband I cut the scrotum off above the band. Didn't get any drainage, miniscule amount of blood. Nice beefy red muscle tissue. I poked around quite a bit to see if I could cause any area to drain and none was found. Just some swelling. Maybe it isn't as bad as I thought it was. The open area is however about the size of a quarter so I used some of my vet's medication and sprayed it with wound spray that repells bugs and turns everything blue. He is his perkey self tonight. I did give him another cd&t shot, it had been 3 weeks since his last one.
I guess he will be fine. I did decide to do the same to his brother and I am happy for this decision. His wound was was only the size of a dime and had no swelling. He got the same treatment. I think I am going to invest in castration clamps. That will give me one less infection to worry about.

Thanks for your advice!
Carla


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Glad for your success with this. I would suggest banding before 2 weeks. It is so much less traumatic with less tissue to kill and the whole process goes more quickly. We do it when we disbud at about 10 days in Nubians - earlier in other breeds. Never in a zillion years had an infection. And no - early banding does not cause urinary issues  
Lee


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## CBegins (Jan 26, 2011)

This is my first experience with goats and I read so many times that early castration causes urinary calculi so I waited. I am sure this process would have been much better in april with fewer bugs. I hate it when animals suffer due to my ignorance.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

If you know your going to make wethers than watch a simple Utube video on knife castration. The films on piglets are the easiest to watch since they are hairless you can really see, it's how I learned. You can then do the bucklings as young as a couple of days old or wait until a little later if you believe the whole urinary calculi doesn't happen to wethers who were castrated older, even though full grown adult intact bucks get urinary calculi  V


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## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

What I do is separate the young bucklings that are going to be put in the freezer and I don't bother with disbudding or castrating them. I butcher these young men between 6 and 9 months of age. If you do not have a secure, separate area then castrating at a couple weeks old will work best for you.


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## CBegins (Jan 26, 2011)

Vicki, do you mind telling me more about your experience with urinary calculi vs castration or not. I am torn. Gosh, I feel like I am turning the clock back 24 years and having sons again and trying to figure out if I should circumcize them....lol 

When I got the bucklings/now wethers I was undecided on what I was going to do with them. They have some pretty good milking bloodlines but I wasn't sure if I wanted to cross my togg/alpine doe with a lamancha. It took me two months of research and consideration to make up my mind that I would rather go with AI this fall. I can't stand the buck smell.


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## Holly Govero (Mar 26, 2009)

Well I do know that if you give them grain all the time and it does give them UC. SO I only feed my boys is alfalfa pellets and alfalfa hay and they are fine with it. But in the winter I use goat Noble that have ammonia in it so I can feed that to my boys thru fall to winter to early spring so they stay at weight while being in rut and etc. 

But I know a lot of my friends have wether and they love them to death and they only feed them is alfalfa hay and alfalfa pellets and browse. That is all. They did fine. I understand about u cannot stand the buck smell but my boys dont stink all year long which it is good thing! LOL..


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

It's simply logic, intact bucks get urinary calculi....so no amount of letting the plumbing mature in a buck is going to help him not get urinary calculi, be it castrated at 1 day old or 100. Now if delayed castration really does mature the plumbing, which we have not found to be true, than no older castrated wether would get urinary calculi and NO adult bucks would either...both classes do all the time. Diet is what causes stones, it's really sort of a perfect storm disease...you have to have some major grain, grass hay and most browse feeding going on with little to no alfalfa or other sources of calcium being eaten.

Dora, I don't know one person who 100% relies on AI, I think Chris who posted above is pretty close to using it only 100% but not all does are good candiates for it. Vicki


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## jejarvis (Nov 11, 2009)

About how long do you wait before cutting off the dead scrotum? I have always wanted to do this, but didn't know that it was a good idea. What do you use to cut it off. When you say cut off above the band, do you mean the body side or the scrotum side? I hate how long it takes for the dead flap to fall off. I have always worried about the chance of infection. I have not had meat wethers, just pet wethers.


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## skeeter (Aug 11, 2010)

Dora, I run many wethers and bucks on my place. They are expected to live long working lives. The age of castration seems to have very little to do with getting UC. I have right now 9 boys ranging in age from 3 weeks to 7 years. 6 are wethers and another soon will be.
If I don't have a deposit on a buckling before he is 5 weeks old, he becomes a wether. The only reason I hold them that long is because packgoat people want to wait until 6 months, so they leave here bucklings normally.
All of my older boys have been done at different ages and different times. I only have one who threatens to plug up if his food isn't just right. He was castrated at 3 years old. The wethers that were castrated within their first few weeks are my healthier boys in the group and none of them seem more prone to slowing their urine streams than the ones done later. 
I suspect that a lot of the problems come from people who think they should only feed grass hay and who don't make sure they drink enough during cold weather.


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## freedomfrom4 (Nov 4, 2009)

Of so you have to have a balance of grain and alfalfa to help balance out the ratio of calcium to phosphorus. Do other things play into that ratio like browse and beet pulp.


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## skeeter (Aug 11, 2010)

Everything plays into the ratio. Beet pulp has a good ratio, browse is variable depending on the nutients in the soil.
I always just try to make sure that there is enough calcium available to them to balance whatever else they are eating. I may be the only hiker that packs alfalfa pellets as part of my animals weight load.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

With plenty of browse and hay Lori you also don't have to add beet pulp and other products high in roughage. At some point you have to say, I GIVE, feed what they need, the highest quality you can find at the price range you can afford each and every day. The best products can sometimes only be available sporatically in your area, if at all, so what is the point in changing your goats feed each time you go to the feed store. Find something that everyone else feeds so it is fresh, even if you simply move off label and go horse or cow. Vicki


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