# Cocci questions?



## homeacremom (Nov 6, 2007)

If my kids are on new ground, new pen do they need prevention treatment?

What is the dose/frequency for Corrid ?(either I missed it in 101 or it is in one of the pdf which my computer is having fits over.)


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

I got my first Goats a bit over a year ago (actually I guess nearly a year and a half ago). Penny had twins and I let her raise them and never used any prevention and they grew wonderfully. We had never had goats on the property, not to mention that they were browsing over several acres and only 4 goats.


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2008)

Judith.......you will most likely have some cocci in your goats. It may not ever get bad, but most likely will be there. I personally don't have to use prevention yet, but I do run a lot of fecals on my goats with my own microscope.....and so, when I see the numbers getting too high in one of mine, I treat them......much like I do with worm loads. The danger in not knowing what the cocci status is in your animals, is that cocci can take hold on a young goat very fast....with quick treatment a goat can survive this, but left undone and the cocci can cause lots of scar tissue in the digestive system that will hamper proper digestion the rest of the goats life. This will effect growth, milk/feed conversions, etc.
This is why you see many of these old pro's on here use the prevention method..........There reputation is not only on the line in the show ring, but in the milk pail as well........They don't wont any chance of cocci doing permanent damage at any time, ex-specially while the goats are still growing.

Here are the notes that I got from Kaye on treatment with corid.....just in case you need it. Note; this is treatment and not prevention.

Whim


From: Kaye White 
To: whimmididdle 
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:42 pm 
Subject: Corid Treatment 
If you are going to use the corid, use it at the following rates and syringe it into each kid according to weight. 
Putting it in the water is useless. Mine won't even drink milk with it in it. 

Treatment dose....use once a day for 5 days..no less.Use it full strength...no water! And yes, you're vet will throw a wall-eyed fit if you tell him how you used it! He will also tell you the "calf dose" which isn't anywhere near strong enough for goats. Been there, done that...didn't work! This dose is 5x's the calf dose and I just,today, did fecals on all my babies! Not one coccidia egg! They are 3mo. olds and Feb. babies. So, I can safely say the doses below work with fecals to back 'em up! 
Doses below are 50mg/kg (2.2#)....recommended treatment levels for caprines. 
6cc/25# 
12cc/50# 
18cc/75 
24/100# 
You use your calculator to break it down to weights. 
Kaye


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## homeacremom (Nov 6, 2007)

ok, so I don't do my own fecals....yet  and having a hard time finding someone in the area to do them since we moved. I guess I'll go with prevention on my two keeper doelings to be safe. At 21 days today so believe it is time to start. 

corrid prevention dosage/frequency needed yet. The bottle directions aren't real clear and not sure if those are correct for goats anyway...

Thanks!


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Cocci is in all goats and unless you can do or get fecals down to ck on this then yes you need to do routine cocci prevention on kids. As it is a killer for them. Adult goats don't usually have a problem but kids are just a different story. Better to be safe than sorry later. use the above treatment dose that Kaye uses and recommends (what Whim just posted above)


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## homeacremom (Nov 6, 2007)

Sondra, isn't that the *treatment* dose? Are preventative and treatment the same? If yes, then what I'm doing is treating for 5 days repeated every ??? days...


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

The lable dose on the bottle(Corid 9.6% liquid) is for calves-10mg/kg- and not strong enough for goats.
Doses below are 50mg/kg (2.2#)....recommended treatment levels for caprines.

6cc/25# 
12cc/50# 
18cc/75 
24/100#



> If yes, then what I'm doing is treating for 5 days repeated every days...


21 days. The life cycle of coccidia is 21 days...what you are trying to do is keep the coccidia numbers in check by controlling them. No, you won't kill them all...thus giving the body the ability to provide it's own immunity.

There is not, to my knowledge, a "preventative" dose for Corid. It can be used at 30-40mg/kg, but I would certainly do a fecal before I started the treatment and after the treatment to MAKE SURE this mg/kg was working for me. I use the 5x's the calf dose(50mg/kg)...because this is what, through fecals, has shown to work for me. It's also the recommended dose for goats.

There are other drugs that can be used at preventative doses...but most of these are given daily or used in feeds.
Kaye


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## CarlinsDarlin (Feb 8, 2008)

How old are kids before they develop the immunity (and the preventative/maintenance dose can stop)? My babies now are being treated every 21 days, but they'll be sold next month so I won't be treating them but once, maybe twice more here. I'm hoping to get a doeling to keep out of my does freshening the first week of May - and if so she/they'll be around much longer. I want to make sure I medicate them long enough to build up that immunity.
Kathy


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## Karen Bailey (Oct 26, 2007)

Sondra said:


> Cocci is in all goats and unless you can do or get fecals down to ck on this then yes you need to do routine cocci prevention on kids. As it is a killer for them. Adult goats don't usually have a problem but kids are just a different story.





CarlinsDarlin said:


> How old are kids before they develop the immunity (and the preventative/maintenance dose can stop)?


Kids usually develop an immunity to the coccidia they are exposed to by 4 to 5 months of age. Until then they need protection from it. When a goat is moved to a new herd, as a kid or an adult, if they are exposed to a type of coccidia they have not encountered before, then they are just as susceptible to it as a newborn. 
Years ago I worked in a lab identifying rabbit coccidia. There are 5 distinct kinds, and I used to be able to call them by name. I don't know how many types goats have, but when I brought in a buck from another place years ago, my does who were resistant to all the coccidia here all had coccidia scours within a week of him being in their pen. Fecals confirmed coccidia, and I lost one of my does that day. The others were treated and recovered. I learned two things from this. One, isolate new stock even if you really want those does bred to the new buck, and two, never assume your older animals are immune to all coccidia.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Good point Karen


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## CarlinsDarlin (Feb 8, 2008)

Thanks Karen.
So I don't need to worry about any prevention/treatment in my adults unless new stock is brought in? or symptoms develop? Everyone seems fine so far. I know the larger number of goats you have on a smaller place, the more likely you'll be dealing with coccidia. Does anyone know if there's a number of goats to land ratio that makes it less likely to be a problem? Right now I have only 4 adults (3 does) and two babies, and the girls & babies have about 2 1/2 acres fenced to run on (the buck is in a smaller lot by himself). I'm hoping to continue to expand their grazing area as money for extra fencing becomes available, but for now that's all they have.

Regardless since I know it's around here, I'll be treating all the babies from now on. I was just curious.
Kathy


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## Karen Bailey (Oct 26, 2007)

Another thing I've noticed over the years is a two year grace period. Goats put on property that has never had goats on it before have no problems with coccidia or worms, but watch out for year three! (if no prevention is practiced) I continue to recommend prevention for coccidia and worm control from the beginning to new goat buyers, but how many times have I had to go back over the information two and a half years later when it has suddenly become important to them having lost one or two? Kathy, and anyone else starting out, I praise you for starting out right from the beginning.


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## homeacremom (Nov 6, 2007)

Got it now!
Thanks!


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I use cocci prevention until 8 months of age. I want my kids grown and bred by then. I am also using Kayes dosage (thank you Kaye) and yes your vet will freak now, although back in the day she would give this to you to use for 21 days for treatment (the lower cattle dose but 21 days worth)...it's where all the causes polio info came from, misuse of too low of dose.

Corid unlike sulfa's do not kill all lifecycles of coccidiosis. It blocks the ability of the last lifecycle of occyst to move to the harmful blood sucking, intestine ruining adult in your babies intestines. So the kid is building immunity the whole time they are on Corid, unlike feed throughs (if you can find one dosed high enough in grain for goats, even goat speicific meat goat pellets are rarely high enough) sulfa's etc...which kill all lifecycles.

Corid, depletes the cocci occysts ability to utilize thiamin in the goats system to move to adulthood...IT DOES NOT, unless overused cause thiamin/b1/polio in your goats. And anything, herbal wormers, chemical wormers, electrolytes, Fast Track, grain if given in enough amounts can destroy rumen flora and cause polio in your goat. Vicki


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## CarlinsDarlin (Feb 8, 2008)

Hmm. So from what you say, Corid seems to be more effective in building immunity than the sulfa drugs. I've been using Sulmet. I didn't know the difference in how they work. That makes sense. I'd never heard of Corid until joining these forums. Is it something I can buy at my local feed store, i.e., is it easily available and non prescription? Around here there's only one vet who I know has experience with goats and he's a good little drive from here - and I've never used him. So drugs only available by prescription are not so easy for me to come by....
Kathy


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

No they don't work better, just differently.

And sulmet is the hardest to use, if you use it correctly in the right dose, you are using something at such a high dose it is dangerous unless you tube. The problem with alot of information is that you use something, thinking it is working, not fecal sampling, because so and such website gave you a dose. Then as you have goats awhile or bring in someone that sheds occysts all over your kid pen, you have an outbreak, what you thought was working never did work.

Corid has a very bum wrap on other websites because of this miss use of dosage. It's all very well meaning, it's just wrong. Vicki


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## homeacremom (Nov 6, 2007)

Corid is the easiest to find in my area - every farmstore has it.


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

> Corid has a very bum wrap on other websites because of this miss use of dosage. It's all very well meaning, it's just wrong. Vicki


Yep! Lots of people ask me what I use for coccidia prevention....when I say Decoxx-M till weaning, then Corid till 7-8 months. There first response..."Oh, I tried that and it didn't work." Which my next question is," Did you use it at lable dose?" Oh, yeah...just like the bottle says! Rather than aurgue with them ...I say go home and read it again...it's labled for calves at 10mg/kg, not goats. Then I will give them my e-mail address and have them contact me, if they want the doses. AMAZING....at the recommended doses, IT WORKS!!

:biggrin It's kinda' like giving 1cc of Penn-G, one time. :nooo
Kaye


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## Bilrite Farms (Oct 26, 2007)

So just to I'm getting this straight. Kaye - you use Deccox-M until weaning (when do you wean?) And then Corid as a treatment? Every 21 days? Do you ever have breakthough on the Deccox? Do you use Corid then? We've been happy with the Deccox but then using Albon if we had breakthough (rarely).

Trisha


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## Dusty (Mar 18, 2008)

What is the dose for 12.5% Di-methox for prevention and treatment? I did a search and found some info. on 40% Di-methox, but the 12.5% was confusing. I had already ordered the 12.5% since they didn't have the 40% available at Jeffers instead of corrid. After reading some of the post it seems most like the Corrid.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Maybe Kaye will chime in here, but Sulmet is 12.5% and you have to use 1 ounce per 100 pounds just for calves, and we know that that dose is incorrect for kids. Once again those going by Fiasco on this drug don't have cocci to treat to use their dosages. Sulfa's are really good for scours and bacterial pneumonia, so if you are using milk replacer keeping them on a sulfa for the duration makes sense, and a low amount like those stated would work preventative, but preventative for cocci...no. I did notice yesterday that she has changed her dosage on two things...and I haven't forwarded them yet, but they are exactly as written by our KAYE WHITE!!!  Vicki


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## Dusty (Mar 18, 2008)

They are not on bottle they are being raised by their dams. I am looking for prevention for cocci for my kids.


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

You will need to increase the dose of Dimethox 12.5% three times- to get near the same mg of the 40%. No, I didn't break it down to the EXACT doseage. I rounded it off.

Sondra, isn't the Dimethox 40%- 1cc/5#'s the first day then 1cc/10#'s the 2nd-5th day?? That equals 400mg/ml. The recommend is 75mg/kg on Sulfadimethoxine.

Diemthox 12.5% is 125mg/ml... It will take 3.2x more of the 12.5% to get 400mg/ml. rounding it off...
Dimethox 12.5% needs to be given at 3cc/5#'s on the 1st day, 3cc/10#'s on the 2nd-5th day.



> And then Corid as a treatment? Every 21 days?


Yes. For 5 days


> Do you ever have breakthough on the Deccox?


Not so far. But, I also fecal one of a pen at about every 20 days...just to check my levels.


> Do you use Corid then


 :biggrin That's my game plan. If I had one that broke through or had high levels I would treat it with Corid right along with giving the Decoxx-M every day. So far in about 4 yrs. I haven't had to use that plan. Although, I did have a giardia scare that turned out to be plum tree pollen. :blush THANKS,Vicki for finding out treatment for giardia...just in case!

The Albon KILLS the coccidia...and is also recommened in a break through.

Awwww....thanks Vicki. Maybe the correct dose was found.???
Kaye


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## CarlinsDarlin (Feb 8, 2008)

Okay here's a silly splitting hairs question, but I figure it could make the difference between "maintenance" and an outbreak...

Is it every 21 days from day _one_ of the 5 day treatment? or 21 days from day 5? If 21 days from day one, I need to do another 5 day treatment starting today. If from day 5, I have a few more days...
Kathy


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## Harmony Goats (Jan 6, 2008)

Since we are talking about Cocci at what age can you start giving albon. I have a few kids with the squirts and they have them off and on. I was just wanting to go ahead and treat all of them. I know the dosages of it and to feed it at least 2 hrs before or after you feed them their milk. I just don't know if I can give it to them now they are mostly a month old.


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

I use 21 days from the 5th day of treatment.

Modified to add: You are about 10 days overdue for a treatment! Yes, especially since your having kids with scours already.
I wouldn't use Albon until they are 18-20 days old. Also, Albon isn't really a preventative, it is a treatment for an outbreak. It kills all the coccidia and you may be setting yourself up for a major outbreak when they are older. 

I like using a preventative from day 5, in the lambars. It keeps the coccidia at/below normal levels and gives the goat a chance to build an immunity. Then I don't have yearlings and adults breaking out with a overloads from stress.
JMO,
Kaye


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## Harmony Goats (Jan 6, 2008)

I give mine Decox-M. With all the rain I don't think it is working too well. But some have the scours one day and then the next day they won't have it.


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## CarlinsDarlin (Feb 8, 2008)

Thanks Kaye.
21 days from day 5 is what I have been doing (they've only been treated a couple times as they're only 9 weeks old, and I didn't start till they were a month old - the first time the scours developed and I was told it was coccidia), but I wanted to make sure. Everyone is fine at the moment - showing no signs of an outbreak, but I didn't want to have one either...
Kathy


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## Guest (Mar 31, 2008)

Sondra: was that the correct dosage for the 40%? Also is that treatment or preventative? Sorry if this was answered before. Thanks. Jennie


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## Dusty (Mar 18, 2008)

Does the Sulfa 12.5% mess up the rumen like antibiotics? If so do you give a probiotic after the treatment every 21 days?


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

If I remember to give it...I'll give 5grams of probios. After all it is a drug. Sure wouldn't hurt.
Kaye


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Jennie said:


> Sondra: was that the correct dosage for the 40%? Also is that treatment or preventative? Sorry if this was answered before. Thanks. Jennie


Sorry yes that was correct for preventative if using it as treatment then it is the day 1 dose for the full 5 days.


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## Guest (Apr 1, 2008)

Thank you!


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