# Arrggg.........Parasites



## Nupine (Nov 2, 2007)

I am so ticked right now. Our yearling alpine doe has never been quite right, and about a month ago her appetite had decreased. Then we realized she had sore mouth[not sure how she got that], and we solved that problem, and also dewormed her with Ivermectin paste.Ever since she has just went down hill. She looks like crap. Sorry, but it is true. Her coat looks nasty, diarrhea, lost weight, pale gums, under her eyelids is very white, lethargic, and her appetite isn't very good. Before taking her to the vet, I used different appetizers, antibiotics [in case she had a secondary infection from the sore mouth], medicine for the diarrhea, baking soda for a belly ache, etc. No improvement so we took her to a vet. The vet [a very good vet] explained that she had a worm overload. She also said that many animals in the area are going downhill because of worms, and how nothing on the market seems to work. She gave me a new dewormer that is working that she is only giving to animals like my doe who have a heavy worm load. Cool. It is If I am not mistaken it is Livasole or something like that. She also gave me a pink shake looking thing with rumen yeast caps, appetizers, and a few other things in it. This was 5 days ago, and she seems as though she *may* be doing better. Drinking alot and poops now looks like dog poop instead of brown pee. Eating quite a bit of leafy hay. She is currently seperated from the goats but did start to butt heads with our lamb when we let them out to play. Not all that interested in grain, but is eating some of it. I now can be sure she has a lot of worms though, she has bottle jaw. Argg. I am keeping a very close eye on her, and I sure hope she gets better. I have another dewormer dose from the vet to give her next week. I jsut don't understand how she could be that wormy though. She has been wormed 3 times with Ivermectin paste since July, and I used some herbal stuff before that, as well as Ivermectin and Safeguard, but the herbal wasn't working. I use hay feeders [although some falls on the ground]. The barn is kept pretty clean.She shares a 3/4 acre pasture with about 9 other goats. What am I doing wrong? Friends, family, other goat people know me as taking great care of my animals and being very knowledgeable, not the girl with a doe with bottle jaw. I am getting at least 1 new, rather expensive doe in the spring, so I want to be proactive and get this under control by then. Any advise for this doe and what dewormer I should use. I have heard good things about injectable Cydectin, is that a good choice? Besides one who is a little thin, all my other goats look healthy. I hate worms.
Ashlyn


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Ivermetic has been so overused that in alot of places it just plain doesn't work, herbals are useless unless you can rotate pastures safeguard is only good for tapes in youngsters. IMO 
cydectin pour on for cattle given orally and then ivermectin plus given at 100 days bred and do routine fecal cks so you know what worms your dealing with. Levisole is good wormer but now only RX I think.


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## Nupine (Nov 2, 2007)

Thanks Sondra, where is the best place to get Cydectin, and what is the dose?


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

TSC stores carry it, as do a lot of feed dealers. The dose is 1cc per 20-25# orally. You will need to get a nylon syringe, the regular syringes clog up with it. A nylon syringe will last forever with the Cydectin.


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

And don't be surprised...it is purple and smells like motor oil. But the goats don't seem to mind too much! I think that the carrier (which must be oil of some sort) reacts with the rubber gasket on the regular syringes, but whatever the case, it definitely makes them stick and makes the wormer really hard to get out and you won't get more than one use out of a regular syringe, at best.


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## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

You can purchase it at Jeffers and other mail order supply houses. Use a dosing syringe - it won't eat the seals up on it like it will a regular syringe.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

just to let you know we here on DGI have no one as yet that has tested out the injectable cydectin with fecals before and after so can't really comment on how effective it is at all


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

I have heard that the injectable given orally is good, but have not used it. It has a different dose than the pour on, so you'd have to check on that. I've also heard (from folks that went to conferences that I wasn't able to get to) that in herds that have to use pour on a lot that it is beginning to cause digestive problems?? and that they're recommending the injectable actually injected. Supposed to work better, too??

I used the pour on, and got one of those sheep & goat drench guns. Fabulous little item for about $12 at a feed store and makes giving oral meds SO easy. --also good for Ivomec+ because you can attach a needle to it to draw that up into the gun, then replace the needle with the mouth piece. Love it! The cydectin wore the numbers off my regular syringe (I think it smells like turpentine).


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## Nupine (Nov 2, 2007)

Thanks. SHF, I have one of those yellow goat/sheep syringes. It has this long metal part that goes in the goats mouth, would that work? It was about $12 as you said. Heidi seems to be doing better. She is eating so well, not a whole ton of grain but has been eating hay like a normal goat. She has drunk almost a half gallon of water today. She stays in a horse stall but I take her on lots of walks. She has also been more alert. She still has the bottle jaw, my mom freaked when she saw it, does anyone know how long that will stay there if the parasites are being taken care of?
Ashlyn


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## nightskyfarm (Sep 7, 2009)

Whenever I have had a case of bottlejaw, mostly in yearlings, I do the one-two punch and within 48 hours the swelling is noticeably diminished. Rumental first, dosing by weight and Ivermectin and even fendbendazole as well, a couple days later and it has always worked for me in Virginia. Rumental is a top-dressed crumble on the feed and I feed each individually. Also with-hold grain the night before and worm in the morning with a half cup grain and the Rumental. That way the animal eats all the feed and wormer. I do not think it is as palatable as they say. I have never used Levisole on my animals. Jennifer


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## Nupine (Nov 2, 2007)

What is a one-two punch? If you mean taking my fist and punching her in the face twice there is absolutely no way I am doing that.


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## nightskyfarm (Sep 7, 2009)

It was only a figure of speech, Ashlyn. I just give them the Rumental the day I notice the bottlejaw and the next day or so worm the animal again, but with a different wormer either Ivermectin or Fenbendazole and sometimes both depending on the severity of the bottlejaw. The worms need to go. I also follow up with B-complex 1x day for 2-3 days because of the anemia caused by those blood-sucking worms. Bottlejaw is a manifestation of an overload of blood-sucking worms hence the anemia, as opposed to tape worms. No, we don't "punch" the goats . Jennifer


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

It's just no way to manage a herd. From simply guessing what is working, and if you guess wrong you get bottle jaw, which is severe anemia, yes kill the worms but it takes months of good feed, hay and time to build back up the destroyed red blood cells. All which will eventually kill of your best milkers, your best most heavily used bucks, your oldest doe or your weaned kids. In the mean time the doe has lost production and even the ability to conceive or hold a pregnancy. Fecal sampling is one of those things like bolusing, tubing or pulling blood that if you saw someone do it one time you would kick yourself for thinking it's too hard to learn. So you then overworm, using different wormers over and over, none of which is doing much. With true resistance you can actually give to classes of wormers together (cocktail) but you don't want to be using the wrong dosages, and you don't really know the dosages unless you fecal. So make sure the info you are getting locally is from someone who is fecal sampling, can tell you what worms are problems for them, then make sure it's the problem worm in your area. Levanisole is avery broad specturm which is a good thing, and because of a neuro problem it can cause if give to close to over dose, it has been rarely used...which is a good thing, it will leave it for problem herds, or when folks get resistance to Cydectin, once again because they refuse to learn from our past mistakes with Ivermectin.

This one doe is showing you what is happening herd wide, so purchase the cydectin, use it on everyone, use it again in 10 days and then again in 10 days...this will break the lifecycle of adult blood sucking worms on your property that you have built by not using the correct dosages, or right kinds of wormers when you needed to. By fecal sampling and using a McMasters chambers slide, you can identify the eggs in fecal, you can count them and then worm if the numbers rise above what you are comfortable with. Unlike here, where nearly all our problems are blood sucking worms, because of the cold you will also have more cool weather condition eating worms. Watch this spring the folks who are on here asking us how to get some weight on their does before appraisal or shows...it's because they haven't managed the cool weather worms and the dry period correctly. Problem comes in that not alot of adult worms are laying eggs to catch on fecal when it's frozen outside, and condition eating worms don't cause anemia you can see...so you have to know what is going on with your herd during the rest of the year, so you can strategically go after worms in the winter, like we do flukes.

And to reiterate what Tim said, don't be depending upon local sources for your tack, in the end it's soo expensive to do so, jefferslivestock.com or catalog it 1-800-jeffers. Vicki


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## Nupine (Nov 2, 2007)

ok, I needed the harsh [but not rude] awakening. I will have a fecal done next week. What is the typical cost of a fecal so I can be prepared?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Call around, out here it's better to find a lab who will run your fecal for you on a chambered slide, if all the local vets are like ours and simply tell you "you have worms' well you already know that. You want them identified, you want them to use a chambered slide so they can give you a count of each egg type. 

Are you on a district list on yahoo for your area? Do you belong to a local goat club, might want to ask someone local which lab or which vet to use. Vicki


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

Cost here is usually between $6 - $10 per fecal. Like Vicki said, call around to find a vet who will run it on a chambered slide otherwise you are paying for non specific info. Repeat the fecal after you worm so you can see if it was effective. You can also contact a local dairy goat 4H group and ask. 

This is one of those things where you don't know where to start but once you get it down, it is such a DUH moment. Like the copper bolus for me. There is a good article in Goatkeeping 101 about fecals and how to read results that I found very helpful.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

And in the long run, consider copper deficiency.


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Fecals cost me $10 at my vet. She doesn't use a chambered slide, but does enough of them, that she has a scale of 1 to 4 on severity. If there are very few eggs, it's a 1. If there are tons of them on a slide, it's a 4. (or in the case of some goats I got last year, a 5!) She identifies species and lets me see the slide and taught me how to do them myself also.

And yes, that's exactly the sheep/goat gun I was talking about.  For cydectin, just draw it up with the mouth piece.


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## Nupine (Nov 2, 2007)

Thanks everyone. I will try to find one with a chambered slide, thanks for telling me. I had a fecal done last year, and when the vet was finished, she came outside and just said, ''You have a lot of worms''. She also told me to use the Ivermectin paste.  That really helped. Waste of $12 there. Should I get samples from all the goats, a few of them, or just one? We currently have 10 goats. I am not a member, as of right now, of a local dairy goat club, and am the only dairy goat showman in the county [in 4-H]. Most of the boer breeders in the county aren't very helpful. Some are complete snobs. There about 3 main large boer breeders at the fair, and I have heard them talking to potential costumers and saying insulting things about the other breeders and their goats, during the fair. Such as what ''diseases'' their herds carry, prices too high for poor quality, etc. It is pathetic. I might ask Roseanne, she is in the county next to use. So, once I find out what kind of worms I have, and the worms are the kind that Cydectin treats, do you think that is a good choice? As far as copper deficiency, I tried the boluses once, and it was too hard. Not a fun task there. I use a goat mineral, it is Sweetlix Meat Maker, and it contains about 1,750 ppm of copper, that is free choice for the goats. Heidi is doing better today, the bottle jaw has gone down greatly, but still has pale gums. She has ate a lot today. I walked across the road, where she at lots of grass, and she also ate some goat grain and corn, lots of water, and a lot of hay as well. She is currently out with the herd, for a couple hours, but will be put away for feeding and for the night. They aren't all being very nice to her, but she seems to be happy to be out. Also, I had two more questions. What dewormers do YOU use, and do you use deccox? I currently don't ,and have never had the coccidiosis problem [besides with chickens once] but is it a good thing to use? I have been hearing a lot lately about people using too many antibiotics, dewormers, etc. so I don't know. Thanks. Oh, I almost forgot, I have this bottle of horse medicine called Red Cell, we used it for our old horse before he died. It has 300 mg of iron per ounce [the horse does is 1-2 ounces daily] and it is a ''blood builder'' for sickly horses. Would that be something to consider giving to her?
Ashlyn

Ashlyn


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

Ashlyn, 

we use Cydectin and Ivermectin Plus here mostly. We dose routinely as prevention per Vicki's management in Goatkeeping 101, pre-breeding and post kidding. Outside of that routine we dose as needed per fecals or poor condition. 

The problem you may have with the fecal right now is that it will now show eggs of HC despite the adult population your doe may be hosting. I would fecal the doe that is not doing so well and that will give you some idea about the rest of the herd. 9 does on 3/4 an acre, they will pick up some worms unless it's a completely dry lot? 

With yearling and older does I usually don't use any cocci prevention but I do on kids. We use medicated pellets here. 

You mentioned that this doe has never been quite right. Premium nutrition won't solve your problems but it can definitely help your doe cope better with her problems. 

Hope this help some, 

Jana


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## Nupine (Nov 2, 2007)

It is not a dry lot, but not much vegetation. So pre breedign and post kididng? How about for kids, dry yearlings, bucks, and my 2 wethers? What is Ivermectin Plus? Thnaks
Ashlyn


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

Instead of the Red Cell, give her some FORTIFIED B-Complex and/or B-12. Copper bolus this doe and make sure you do the 3 x Cydectin at 10 day intervals, then do a fecal on her regularly. The Ivomec Plus has a flukacide in it for Liver Flukes.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Nupine said:


> As far as copper deficiency, I tried the boluses once, and it was too hard. Not a fun task there. I use a goat mineral, it is Sweetlix Meat Maker, and it contains about 1,750 ppm of copper, that is free choice for the goats.
> Ashlyn
> 
> Ashlyn


I think if something is too hard, we should just get better at it, if it's needed . I don't know that your goats do or don't, but I do know that even with high copper minerals, mine were deficient and saw benefits from bolusing. It's a bit of a pain, but seeing my goats glow is worth it!

The thing is, mixed minerals are "balanced". If your goats are getting really imbalanced minerals from their other foods and/or water, adding a balanced mineral to it just leaves you still imbalanced! For example, if you have low copper and high iron, your mineral mentioned above will not provide your copper needs for your goats.


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## kattmc3 (Mar 8, 2009)

As for the copper bolusing when you have high iron in your water or ground your really get deficient in copper. I don't know why but I found bolusing really easy. I think treating for worms goes hand in hand with copper bolusing. I need to learn how to do my own fecals because I don't know how to treat my goats for worms.


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Copper bolusing for me the first time was tough, too. It gets easier really fast.  It makes such a difference, too! I wasn't having parasite issues, but noticing other signs, mostly regarding hair.

There are very very few places in the US that a goat can get by on free choice minerals alone.


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## mill-valley (Feb 22, 2008)

I am also one who finds bolusing hard...but it really does make a difference. Get someone to help you and keep trying.

Before you have kids born next spring, do some research through Goat 101 and make up a parasite prevention schedule for them. You really need to have them on regular coccidia prevention and dewormers. Before I found this forum, I never thought I needed it either but since I've used prevention the last two years, my kids have been much bigger, growthier, and hold their weight better. You may think your animals are healthy right now...but once you get parasites under control and copper bolus (if they are deficient) they look like new animals.


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## Nupine (Nov 2, 2007)

Ok, Mill-Valley, I noticed you mentioned that coccidia prevention can help growth. My two alpine doelings that were born last February only weight about 65 pounds each. That is really small, particuraly for their bloodlines. Do you think that coccidia prevention and better worming would have helped that?


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

I can only speak for myself, but I believe that the answer to your question is yes. I have nubian doelings also born in Feb who are both over 100 pounds now (I haven't taped them in about a month...they were over 100 the last time I checked). Granted nubians are pretty big goats, but still, that's a big difference.


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

Feeding more calcium will help growth. Like Vicki said in another post, kids don't grow out on grain , but on alfalfa (calcium)> 65lbs is small for a Feb doeling. Did the girls have access to alfalfa? You need to remember kids in nature grow on milk, often the does will nurse them well after the age where we tend to wean them. So you need to keep supplying the calcium they need for their bones to grow. 

I hear folks blame small growth on bone structure and bloodlines but I saw kids fed free choice alfalfa opposed to those fed smaller amounts and it was a huge difference. Feb doelings should be ready to breed by fall at 80lbs or 90lbs easy. 

Worms and cocci in my opinion can impact growth and condition of a doe preventing her to grow at her full potential, but you need to look closely at your nutrition. 

I used the peanut butter someone here suggested to bolus and it went much better than I ever expected, I didn't even have the girls come to the milk stand, just free hand. 

Jana


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## Nupine (Nov 2, 2007)

Much of the hay we have used has had some alfalfa, but not a lot, and it was not fed free choice. One of the kids is out of a small doe, but the other is out of a large doe, and were bred to a buck with large bloodlines. Our hay is very good quality though. Is there a way to include more calcium without alfalfa? Alfalfa is pretty scarce around here. I found Deccox crumbles. It is very reasonable priced, but when would I start and stop feeding it to kids? Would it possibly help to get these does to grow?
Ashlyn


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## DostThouHaveMilk (Oct 25, 2007)

Ashlyn, I'm happy to come out and help you copper bolus the herd. We are bolusing 60+ at a time right now and I am pretty adept at bolusing at this point.
We used Panecur for a few years after the vet's reccomendation. This was after 5 years of owning goats and not deworming at all. We used the Panecur a couple of years until I brought in a herd that developed bottle jaw despite my worming. I had switched to Ivermectin after finding HT less than a year prior. I then talked to Vicki (would have been what 5 years ago now?) and I dosed the herd with Cydectin, then again 10 days later, and again 10 days after that. I've dealt with bottle jaw unfortunately so have a regime to correct it.
I am one of those people that the ladies here would say not to necesarrilly follow with regards to worming. lol
I don't do fecals yet. It is constantly on the list of to dos, but never makes it to done.
We still use Cydectin as our wormer and worm about 3-4 times a year.
With Heidi's neurological set back as an infant goat, she will likely never be fully right.
In this area, goat vets...well, I haven't met a great one yet except the one we lost. Marg went to study goat's specifically in KS. I'm assuming the vet you refer to is Kemp's other vet? 
If you need Cydectin, I buy the big bottles and could put some in a jar for you.

Don't feel like you are bugging me if you need things. I already tend to three herds other than my own in the area. Well, four if you count the help I give to a friend in Cambridge...though she has a closer friend who does most of that work.
Admittedly there is a lot more knowledge here and you should come here with questions, but when it comes to drugs and learning some of the basics, I am happy to help.


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## Nupine (Nov 2, 2007)

Thanks Roseanne, I would have asked you, but I always feel I am bothering you. lol Since you have so many animals, plus tend other peoples animals. But you are probably the most helpful person I have ever met. I would greatly appreciate if you could come out in the next week or two, to copper bolus and to purchase some Cydectin from you. You are probably right about Heidi, she is only about 70-80 pounds, and almost two. She is so meek and unenergetic too. That was probably the dumbest thing I have ever done in my life, but I guess if that is true, it is probably a good thing.  She may be bred, and due in Feb. but I really don't know. If she is, I just hope it won't kill her.
Ashlyn


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Ashlyn you are very lucky to have Roseanna so close! Vicki


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## Nupine (Nov 2, 2007)

I know! She has been great help many times.


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Grain builds a rumen, protein grows out, and calcium makes sure their bones are strong enough to sustain that growth, among other things. Though I have never done it, I have heard that you can get calcium as a feed supplement, and in places where alfalfa is so much more expensive than a good quality orchard grass or something, that it may be the way to go. Give it w/the grain. I have no idea where to get it or how much to give, but if I were looking into doing it myeslf, I'd go to my feed man and pick his brain.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Just remember that adding something like calcium chloride etc...isn't dietary calcium like is found redibly absorbable like in alfalfa, so your mineral imbalance problems can block absorption. With most not testing just following what others do or say, and not being in that persons area or feeding the same products, you can see why there is so much trial and error and guessing.

We have a local pellet that has it's calcium from only minerals and it is notorious for killing off your best milkers if no fed with alfalfa in some form. Vicki


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

hmmm... interesting! I hadn't thought about that aspect, but a very good point! Too bad we can't just give them oyster shells like the chickens! lol!


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

Vicki McGaugh Tx Nubians said:


> calcium chloride etc...isn't dietary calcium like is found redibly absorbable like in alfalfa, ... local pellet that has it's calcium from only minerals and it is notorious for killing off your best milkers


literally "killing" without some kind of symptoms that would be noticed and rectified?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Lacia, not until it too late. Hypocalcemia to most vets is a non disease. If you take a goat today into any vet in the country 99% of them will diagnose your goat with ketosis, they will give it propolyn glycol and have you repeat the 30cc until it's kidneys are floating and the rumen is destroyed, let alone that she won't eat or swallow because of the caustic nature of it in her throat. You will be told that if you don't abort the litter, she will die, so you abort, which then of course takes the calcium issue (her building colostrum and bones in the kids) away, and she lives. When you feed a lactation pellet with fish and feather meal as the protein (unassimilated as protein in the small ruminant) with only calcium sorbate and calcium carbonate as your calcium sources because they are 'complete' feeds, you set yourself up for the curse of the goat who lives in a dairy. Rolling herd averages that are way below what our 'show' goats milk, and they won't buy our 'show' goats because they die in the dairy. They can't have 3 or 4 kids, milk 9 pounds peak and continue milking 6 or 7 pounds for the rest of the 10 months without hypocalcemia and milk fever killing them. So what is left in most dairies are medicore milkers, does who previously milked well or kidded with big strong kids, not conceiving, and when you look at the herds, the older does and the best young milkers are always gone each year due to metabolic disease during or after freshening. All of this can be 'cured' with alfalfa in some form, protein numbers that are first of all assimilated, but also only high enough to compensate the lack of protein in the hay. Vicki


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

hmmm.... I'm saving this very alarming bit in my "Vet" folder, I hope I never need it!

Its a bit shocking but fits with the debates I've been hearing between folks running dairies and folks with show or well cared for family milkers from excellent stock.

So prevention... my goats get free choice orchard or timothy hay, they never run out, close to free choice alfalfa pellets and Sweetlix Meatmaker minerals (they might run out once every week or two for not more than a couple of hours literally), milkers get 2-6 cups of COB daily roughly proportional to how much they are giving in milk and how long it takes me to milk them plus another 10 min or so of eating, sometimes 1/3 to 1/2 COB replaced with spent barley from beermaking, any goat looking a little less than good condition, or for the month before breeding, will get a little grain boost, plus some green fresh browse 9 out of 10 days or better, with a goal of at least 20 species per week (half that lately in winter, more than that 8 months/yr) always includes some kale or other calcium rich plants, and a weight-proportional few treats of horse supplement with the organic selenium. Am I on the right track in your opinion? I will also go review a protocol I saw in the reference section here.

I wonder if I dealt with this on some level. At 2-3 weeks post kidding, both of my milking does had a day or two when they were not interested in their usual COB grain, and their milk was down 75% and took a few days to get back to previous levels. I got all kinds of mixed advice. Their breath didn't smell funny, one maybe slightly, I took the advice to offer them variety plus Nutridrench. One (fall kidding, twins) gobbled fresh baking soda (apparently free choice was damp/stale) and was then willing to eat some plain rolled oats. The other (late spring kidding FF triplets) wanted raisins/apples/carrots/banana. Both got Nutri-drench mixed with water and a little apple juice which they willingly drank. The one that wanted baking soda & rolled oats had a temp 100.5-101, the one that wanted the fruit was 101.5-102 according to my notes. I took both on a leash walk around the property multiple times to see what they wanted to browse on (I teach about edible plants and am very knowledgable about phytochemicals and safety, no worries there) and let them browse while walking for 30min or so. Blackberry/raspberry/blueberry and dandelion (calcium rich) are the hands down favorites, one ate a lot of bamboo leaves, one a lot of quince & apple leaves, both plus an assortment of other browse per my notes. When you only have a few goats they can get a lot of individual notice and attention 

I went Googling on this and found a mix of advice, lots of info on hypocalcemia, but you're saying its not from the average vet and they do include using propolyene glycol... not that I think you have time to read them <smile> but you probably know at a glance how credible they are...
http://www.goatworld.com/articles/pregnancy/pregnancytoxemia.shtml
http://www.goatworld.com/articles/milkfever/hypocalcemia.shtml
http://kinne.net/hypocal2.htm
http://joyfulheartsfarm.com/hypocalcemia.html (has feed calculations)
http://fiascofarm.com/goats/milkfever.htm

what other sources of info do you recommend?

ok sorry, topic/thread subject getting a bit hijacked here...


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

That response from V was my experience totally for 3 years of trying to use the great and tasty ADM Dairy Goat ration. 
Exactly! And in an otherwise previously healthy herd that has been on cattle sweet feed. So I set out to figure out what the heck and dropped the pellet and have never had another doe go off feed when her milk came in and crash so badly that I spent every minute working on them just to save them. I never will feed my bred does and milkers something I cannot determine the nature of just by looking. I eat that way and cook that way for our dogs so now it is extended to the goats as well - Real Food! My 4 FF that are a week fresh are doing beautifully with not one minute that they are not eating or cudding. What a relief but what a long way to get back to where I was due to refusing to believe that this highly recommended fabulous feed that I was special ordering and paying out the nose for was the cause.
Lee


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## mill-valley (Feb 22, 2008)

65 lbs is small for a Feb. Alpine doeling. I have one born late March, on the smaller-framed side who is about 95 lbs right now. If she had other issues as a kid, that could certainly contribute. If you don't use coccidia prevention and regular dewormings, you will have smaller, unthrifty kids. Maybe not the first year, but once parasites start collecting in the area the kids don't have a chance of fighting it all off on their own.

The last two kid crops (raised with strict parasite prevention) I've actually had to cut back grain because they were getting too fat....I always had trouble keeping weight on the kids before.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Go to goatkeeping 101 Laciea and read Sue Reiths articles on hypocalcemia. There are several of them. Your sites are fine but it's more or less copied info from Sue. Just like all the copper info, it's more or less simply coppied from Joyce on saanendoah.com So go to the source.


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

ok, I read a lot of that, sounds like I'm on the right track or a least a decent one, feeding a balance of real food instead of manufactured etc.

I've seen a lot of "updated" articles by Sue Reith, hard to know which is the most current lol. She's actually local to me, just a ferry ride away if she's still on Bainbridge Isl, maybe I'll meet her at something one day... I've gotten excited before that someone was local for me, and the its old info on the web and they've moved out of state like Fir Meadows...


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