# Diamond V yeast vs Baking Soda



## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

I remember someone saying that the Diamond V yeast is in a baking soda base? I can't find that info on the bag or website, so trying to find out if its true and where the info might be found?

If a goat is off her feed, temp ok, no real obvious reason, generally baking soda is one of the things to try first -- if they won't eat any but will eat more fresh yeast even tho' they have it out free choice with minerals, is that as good/better than eating the bs?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

We have someone on the forum whose family works at a yeast plant. You can also go to the Diamond V Yeast website and read their info, they have excellent literature etc. BC is about decreasing acid in the rumen, we shouldn't be producing so much acid in the rumen that they even need this. Too much grain too much molasses, too much  Yeast is about adding beneficial bacteria to the rumen and intestines, which actually helps them build more and better flora. The two together is pretty key for improving milk amounts in their cattle research, because to improve milk amounts that means more and more grain. No testing to show if in adding more grain and the two combined to get more milk, above weights that are already pretty darn good on basic grain and silage...is in detriment to their health or longevity, since it was just that lactation.

Some minerals and some premixed grains already have yeasts in them. Vicki


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

It is on the bag. It is the carrier for the small amount of yeast and microbials.
Anyone feeling funky here gets Diamond V xp DFM free choice.


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

I thought it was on the bag but didn't see it this time, thought I had before.

sorry, but I'm still not sure on the simple answer, if she's a little off her feed, doesn't want BS, but wants more fresh yeast than what's in the free choice feeder, is that doing any good as a BS alternative?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Sorry I am not a believer. I am with Dr. Samuel Guss, when seeing the smorgusboard of minerals and vitamins and supplements some use, they are giving their goats a great deal more credit than they deserve. I don't think the goats other than knowing certain things stop our cravings for salt, can simply know that they are a little low on molibellum so they go to a mineral, then 'my stomach is a little acid today' i am going to eat baking soda. It's the sodium in it they crave. Yeast smells and tastes wonderful, molassased minerals taste better than plain, kelp is very salty. I don't think there is anything more than this going on. Vicki


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

:lol ok maybe I'm sleep deprived or otherwise dense tonight, but I'm not getting the simple answer.


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## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

If I think a goat needs baking soda, we put a big pinch in her mouth. I wouldn't rely on the Diamond V yeast to provide enough baking soda - it is for something else.

So put as simply as possible, no, the diamond V yeast is not a substitute for baking soda.

HTH.


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

yeah, what I really thought too, but I was hoping  when I don't want to wrestle stuff in their mouth. 

Mouth handling is the thing mine are worst about, or maybe its just such a thing with me cuz of my damaged hand and more times than not, if I'm trying to open/hold a mouth, they twist their head in just such a way that I scream (quietly) in pain from my hand and have to ice it to get the swelling down the rest of the day. Not fun. So I was hoping against what I thought I knew...

Growing up with Angus cattle in FFA etc, the squeeze chute/table was so easy. Plus, I think it stresses everyone less than any kind of wrestling, I'm reading more of Temple Grandon's info. I can't afford the goat sized ones in either $ or space now, but I'm going to experiment with head holding alternatives, my hand is hurting almost unbearably for over a week again of all this...


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

Lacia, hmmm, you can try Tums to neutralize ph instead. They like the fruit flavored ones.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

I have to disagree with the conclusions some have about Diamond V XP DFM formula.
The fact that MOST of the product is baking soda cannot be ignored when using it and generally makes soda unnecessary if made available regularly. There is a very small amt of yeast and freeze dried microbial cultures distributed in mostly baking soda.
This is a very effective way to stimulate appetite and replenish proper ph and add to damaged rumen activity. 
There are many formulas for many purposes made by this company but the one noted above is specifically for restoring rumen function and IS mostly baking soda and if they are acidic it is killing their rumen contents so why not neutralize and restore at the same time? This product has been invaluable to me for so many reasons but jump starting appetites for sure.

There are other points in this discussion I would like to add to. When a temp is down even slightly it does effect appetite which makes the cycle reinforce itself -no food - no energy- no heat- low temp- no appetite and on and on. So without appetite and without ph correction you are allowing other minor problems to bloom- hence opportunistic illness compounding when all you needed to do was support immunity by keeping them eating with high function in the rumen. 

My approach would be to let her have all she wants of the yeast/soda-it is seldom more than a couple of oz- and offer alfalfa and no grain until she is no longer refusing the alfalfa. So Yes-here Diamond v is a sub for soda- I never put out soda. They don't go near it if they have the yeast compliment to eat with Techmaster minerals. Please understand that I realize that every one has systems that work. Just sharing what has been a great boost to my success in fighting off metabolic imbalances.


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

I appreciate that Buckrun/Lee!!

Probably both are true in different situations. Like you say there are a lot of different formulations, although all use baking soda as a base? I only have the XP available here.

Routine use certainly reduces risk of problems for starters. If a goat is thrown off by kidding, feed changes, whatever, then many times an extra boost of the yeast in baking soda base might be enough. If there's diarrhea, ketosis breath etc, then forcing some additonal baking soda into them for a more acute situation might be warranted and so its not a literal substitute, but a good boost/substitute for milder situations and supports natural correction better.

In the teens/adults, I so rarely have clumpy poops here, dog poop maybe one per year, I think the variety they get keeps their rumen fairly diverse and robust and able to rise to challenges mostly. Even with the current challenges here, poops are all still fine, no ketosis breath, but a little off feed can start that vicious circle you mention, so I wanted to be prepared and informed on my choices.

It is interesting how the yeast/mineral mix is out free choice, replenished daily, but plain yeast, fresh and hand fed in a dish is so much more delicious apparently!


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## linuxboy (Oct 26, 2009)

I agree with Lee that adding baking soda when using Diamond V routinely is not necessary, unless you have some drastic type situation where you need to stabilize the rumen, then a bicarbonate drench works well. Live yeast is great in the rumen because it will eat up byproducts and sugars, leading to greater VFA production. Yeasts are also great because when they run out of steam, or are passed to the other chambers, many will burst, either from osmotic pressure, or autolysis, and then they release a whole bunch of wonderful B vitamins that are very bioavailable, which stimulates appetite.


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

ok, that's what I decided too :biggrin

extra real baking soda only necessary in real acute situation, my good management will keep me outta there  so if they want just more fresh plain yeast, good enough.


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