# Selling to stores....help?



## DostThouHaveMilk

This thing is getting out of control pretty quick on me...lol
I didn't have enough soap for Christmas sales...have one order waiting while I soap like a mad woman during my 5 days of break from kidding. I'm trying to get some soaps ready for Valentine's Day but I just don't know.
My father's girlfriend's soon to be daughter in law wants 150 heart shaped soaps for her wedding (with business cards with each one) and a woman in town who is a message therapist has requested ten bars of soap ASAP to try in her store. She has a client requesting that "goat soap" they bought at the farmer's market this summer...lol
So I have to figure out pricing for all this mess.
I also have a repeat customer interested in buying in bulk without me wrapping them...
Is there a formula (or percentage) you all used to figure out the minimum you would charge for these types of things? How low do I go before I am hurting myself in the end?

It costs me $.55 to make a 3-5 ounce bar of soap (figuring I get 42 bars from one Wal*Mart recipe batch). $.14 an ounce...this is a basic Wal*Mart recipe with 34 ounces of GM (valued at $1 a pound), with 10 ounces of FO (figured at $1 an ounce).....
This does not include overhead like molds, blender, my time, labeling, ink, etc, etc.
I normally charge $2.50 a bar or buy five or more and they drop to $2. I still get people refusing to purchase at that price....
What do I do for specialty (heart) shaped soaps? What about people buying soaps to carry in their businesses?

It's good...I know it is good because I lost the three off the farm jobs I had last year and will have one back part time this spring, but money is scarce on a farm.
I'm just not sure I am ready for all of this.
I *love* soaping but when I *have* to do it...especially when my BiPolar or SAD is acting up (read wintertime) it is really hard to force myself to do it.....


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## Kalne

Wow.....that's wonderful that business is going so well!

I am amazed at your cost! The last time I figured mine it was closer to $1/bar. 

I don't sell to any stores yet but I have read that your wholesale price is generally 1/2 your retail price. Retail in a shop could be $1/oz. But if you are selling it for so much less at the market I don't know.

As for pricing the heart shaped soaps....I would definitely take into consideration your time. It takes a lot more time to make 150 shaped soaps versus 150 bars cut from a log.


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## kidsngarden

I do price break pricing for wholesale. Minimum order is $50. 50-100 in retail is 30% off, 101-200 40% off and over 200 they get 50% off the retail price. There is also "lots" meaning they have to buy so many of ONE variety. I've set them low to accomodate small shops. only 5 bars on soap per lot for instance. I would prefer they buy a whole dozen per lot, but I'm new and trying to get established and I know what it is like to be small and cash strapped! I also offer sampler sets that are 30% off retail of my soaps and lotions that aren't subject to minimums or price breaks. I would one day like to just say, "$200 minimum" and just set all my prices at 40-50% off at that point. Less complicated! In reading this right now I think I will do that! I'm just tired of piddly orders, you know?

To me your retail price is just way off. My bars are $5 for 4.5 oz. When you sell at a lower retail price than that you just can't wholesale effectively and still make any money! My very lowest price is $2.50 wholesale per bar and boy that hurts! (I'm currently putting together an order to ship out of soaps and lotions at 50% off retail and I don't like it!) 

And for custom orders you definetely need to consider your time! I hope Christy gives us her thoughts here... she's good at this numbers game!

Bethany


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## Guest

Well I think Vicki is going to be better at this than me :lol

But here’s what I do… First start with the going rate for goat milk soap .50/oz wholesale and $1/oz retail. Then consider your cost including packaging ink labor, everything it should be under .25/oz. Now here is where the science ends and the art of pricing begins. Ask yourself some questions. What is the maximum you can get for a bar of soap in your area? What is the minimum price that makes it worth your time? 

If you are so busy you are going crazy raise your prices! It’s all about supply and demand. That is what I had to do. I sell 6.5oz bars wholesale for orders over $100 is $4/bar anything less and it is not worth it too me. My stores get $8 a bar so it is no problem. You don’t even want to know my wholesale price for lotion :crazy

Christy


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## Sheryl

you guys are making me crazy trying to follow thos figures. Wow. It's gonna be hard for me to figure this one out. I have such a hard time on my sewing items. :crazy

Sheryl


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## kidsngarden

As a matter of fact Christy, I DO want to know what your lotion wholesales for! :biggrin I HATE making lotion!!! I retail mine (it's a thick one - based on Barbara's recipe) for $7/2oz and $16/8oz. It sells decent. But I hate making it so much that I am seriously considering dropping it. I might at least drop it from my wholesale becuase it hurts so bad to sell it 1/2 off! - but I have wholesale customers who LOVE it. Just one or two, though. I think I will see how my scented shea and lotion bars go and then decide. I just HATE making lotion!!! (did I mention I hate making lotion???)

Bethany


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## NubianSoaps.com

There is no way you are making it at that price  $10 an hour, electricity, shipping or driving to pick up your products, shipping of essential oils or FO's and the product themselves...shoot some Fo's will cost you $5 to $8 per batch to add to the recipe. Clays, Mica's colorings, additives, wrapping, labeling...no way.

$1 an ounce for your soaps retail, and you have to have consistant bars...3-5 ounces isn't consistant. A little less than 1/2 of your price will be your cost per bar when you are buying retail...when you move to 50 pound bags of lye, bulk FO and EO purchases, Mica and Clay by the pound, raw products in bulk (oils and butters) then you could with everything else get your per bar numbers under $1.25. You can get your bar lower still by simply making larger batches, but then you will have mold costs. Cutting and labeling labor is huge when you actually time this.

So set your prices at $1 per ounce. 80 cents and ounce for wholesale and whatever it costs to wrap, label and labor off (50 cents here) for raw bar purchases.

Don't give discounts for 3 and 4 bar purchases, give your first price break at 10 bars, unless you want to put gift sets together with 3 soaps yourself. Give price breaks on shipping to those who buy a full box of soap. You will loose business to small stores which are your bread and butter with too high of minimums on your wholesale. They want to test you products, then purchase in bulk. 

IF you don't pay yourself first nobody else will. Vicki


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## kidsngarden

So if I do a $100 minimum, and my bars are $5 each retail for a 4.5 oz bar, you don't think I should sell at 50% off the retail price? I've had complaints about my lot size when it was 10 bars, so I halved it for smaller stores. But I think that since I now offer a sampler pack that would cover that problem for smaller stores.

I've just always thought that 50% off is what retailers expect.

Bethany


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## Guest

Bethany you can't go 50% because you said,


> My very lowest price is $2.50 wholesale per bar and boy that hurts!


Don't do it if it hurts :lol

50% for me would be $3.25 -not happening! I'll sell a full batch 21 bars of one scent unwrapped for $3.50 each but that is just $73.50 and they have to meet the $100 minimum. If they don't meet the minimum it goes up to $4/bar back in my comfort zone  Really I almost never sell for under $4/bar. You have to live with yourself! Maybe your wholesale price is $3/bar and you can give a SRP of $6???

Christy


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## kidsngarden

So you retail your bars for 6.50...do you have the SRP at 6.50 or 8? Because I am online and my website is on the bars I am wondering if I can do a wholesale SRP of 6 but sell them for 5 on my site and not get flack?

Bethany


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## Guest

This is what I do... Price when buying from me $6.50 (at the farmers market I give 3/$5 deals), WS price $4.00 ($100 minimum), SRP $8.00. I have never gotten flack about it. People understand 'manufacturer direct sales' are going to be less then they should expect to pay at a retail location.

Christy


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## NubianSoaps.com

With your wholesale, remember your retail is not your stores retail. Yes sell for 50% if you want to, but know that my $5 bars retail in their stores for $6 and $6.95, so getting my soap for $3.50 wholesale is in most cases 50% price point for them even with shipping. Also shipping...fill a flat rate box, then use that as your minimum...an arbetrary $100 would make me loose stores. Getting 36 bars plus $8.95 shipping gets you repeat sales. Both in unwrapped and wrapped bars. See how many bars you can fit in snugly without fill, use the pretapped boxes if your soap fits in them, then make that your wholesale, because eventually you have to move out of your local area. Local areas do not necessarily want to carry local products. I don't stock any stores even ones who I could...otherwise you have to pay more. Makes them all to happy to buy the whole 36 bars and pay the $8.95. Vicki


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## Guest

36 bars in a flat rate box for me is $144 wholesale plus $9.60 shipping (I get delivery comfirmation) so it works. I have to have a high minimum, haven't had anyone complain yet.

Christy


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## Guest

Christy,

If you use Click N' Chip from USPS.com delivery confirmation is free...

Sara


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## Guest

I didn't know that! Thanks Sara


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## Kalne

Really? Wow, we purchase DC all the time. Dd ships out several boxes a week. Going to go check it out now.


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## kidsngarden

yes, Paypal is just like click and ship as well - no charge for DC.

so let's say I can fit 36 bars. So on my price sheet I say "36 bars for 108 ($3 per bar)" plus 8.95 Shipping" They can then choose three different kinds at a dozen bars each? then I could offer smaller lots (say 6 bars) at 3.50 a bar with a SRP of $6? I do want a minimum of $100 I think.

Bethany


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## Guest

Personally, I let them mix and match it any way they want. I don't do lots on fragrances 

Christy


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## Sheryl

Geesh, I am so trying to follow what you guys are saying about wholesale prices. I am definately slow brained. I am soooo lost and what the hell is SRP?????????

Somebody 'splain it like you were talking to a dim wit! Please?

Sheryl


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## Kalne

SRP=Suggested Retail Price


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## Sheryl

:groan duh. okay. 


So if you sell your soap for $1.00 per oz, is that considered retail or wholesale? And if it's retail, how much an oz wholesale?

Geesh, this is so hard for me to understand.

Sheryl


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## Aja-Sammati

This is a great article on pricing your stuff http://www.soapersworkshop.com/store/index.php?page=Product%20Pricing%20Formula

Remember your time is worth money! Most of the people buying soap couldn't craft it for themselves...


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## kidsngarden

The $1 an oz is standard retail pricing. The Lowest you should go for wholesale if you are $1 and oz retail is 50 cents an oz, but I'm thinking I might up that.

Christy, so if you let them mix and match, what if you don't have all of something they want? Do you make it up right quick and still charge the same? Lots don't matter so much for soap as they do for lotions. It takes a fair bit to whip together one jar of lotion and label it (even if I masterbatch and scent as I go) due to the massive cleaning and sanitation procedures involved. so I figure I need them to buy 6 2 oz jars to make it worth my wholesale price. Like I said before I might just not wholesale lotions all together anyway...

That soapersworkshop thing is a lot of figuring! I've seen it before, but I wonder if in my current world how figuring it all out that way would really work. I think in the beginning when you are just skating by, buying stuff in smaller quantities to make products as fast as you are selling then it is hard and you are often making nothing or next to nothing when you account for your time. I'm sitting on the fence right now. Somewhere between the getting 5 gallon buckets of oils and the getting drums phase. Once I get to drums the costs will be significantly lowered, my inventory kept at a regular consistent level and then my time can really be paid. I'm working on having a consistent inventory so if someone orders lotions I don't have to hurry and make them and get them out, I can just pull them off the shelf in most cases and send them. Then the time factor is more streamlined and also having supplies in bulk on hand is making a big difference. I'm finally flying by the seat of my pants less, which is good.

Bethany

Bethany


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## NubianSoaps.com

Not Chirsty....you aren't ready for wholesale if you do not have stock. I see alot of websites of 3 week lead time from order till shipping, that means they are soaping when they get orders. You can't do retail stores like that, they expect their order now. You also don't have to offer all your soaps to stores...you can do limited brochures for your stores. Your stores have nothing to do with your retail business and vice versa. Vicki


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## Guest

What Vicki said  I have stock. So Far I have never had to soap to fill an order. But If I did, it wouldn't matter because that would mean I need that soap made anyway. Also like Vicki said, I don't have all 30 of my fragrances at each location.

As for the lotion I have stock for that too. I have things set now so that I am making 5 gal lotion and 3 gallons of cream every 6 weeks. I package most of it and save some back in case I run out of a fragrance. This way I always have fresh product on the shelves. 

Christy


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## kidsngarden

I have stock, finally, but am just getting there, it's taken awhile to figure things out. Right now I am reworking my wholesale brochure. Offering only my best sellers - maybe up to 10 different soaps. 5 different lotions. then the bath bombs....oh man, those I can't decide what to put on! The sales have been decent on EVERY fragrance under the sun, but for a few that didn't do well, so choosing which ones I will consistently have in stock is hard. Ithink I will try to have them match some soaps and lotions and call it good.

I finally figured out on the retail side to have "stock" lotions and soaps so I always have those on hand. Then there are "scent to order" lotions which I charge extra for. I do this with my LS too. On my website I offer seasonal fragranced soaps, or one time "while supplies last" soaps to see if they sell well, etc. I was trying to keep my fragrances down to just 10-12 which is IMPOSSIBLE!!! there's always something new to try and because I am really focusing on my online sales it is hit and miss to what sells right now. you really have to make the bar look good since we don't have scratch and sniff screens. For instance I have a bar that was uncolored (discolors this pinkish color) called soap by the sea. Sells like crazy at the market when they can smell it, online no. so I've swirled it with blue and am interested to see how the sales online do now. Also all the EO soaps hardly sell at the market but are my top sellers online. They are pretty but in person most people prefer the fragrances of my FO soaps - online they have no comparison so they go for the more "natural" thing.

I'm teaching a couple of classes this spring. Some of my husbands co-workers were telling him it's not good to reveal all my "trade secrets" (there are very few that are secret - I've learned most of them online!!!). he told them, "there's a lot more to the soap business than making soap" Isn't that the truth!!!

Bethany


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## DostThouHaveMilk

So how many bars do you need to have "In Stock?"
I am finally figuring what scents to always carry, which ones are not working, etc. etc.
Keep in mind I've only been soaping one year now. I soaped for the first time in November of 2006....


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## NubianSoaps.com

Enough so that if every store you wholesale to, called on the same day and ordered their regular order, that you could fill all your boxes the next day and still have left over soap for private website or farmers markets or however you sell your soap, sales.

It's hard with stores because you don't get much of a break after Christmas, they restock starting the 15th of January....and I all but ran out of 2 of my scents! I have to soap right now to do stores and Valentines in Feburary....then Mothers Day. But you could also get so far ahead of the game that you can't take on a new store that calls, then you can give them my number  Vicki


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## KUrby

OR>>>>>> give them MY NAME!!!!! :biggrin :biggrin :biggrin
Karen


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## KUrby

Ok got one for you. If it were your first time to approach a store to hopefully get some sales. What would you take with you? What scent? or should you take multiple bars in case they want to buy johnny on the spot?
do you give each store a different scent to try or do all 1 scent?
I am starting to get my stock built up to hit the stores.
Also, What all kinds of store do you guys hit up? Salons and spas of course, but where else should one try.
Then on stocking your scents, Since you have NO clientel, how much on one type of scent should you have on hand when starting this?
Karen


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## NubianSoaps.com

You should have a line....bet your knew I was going to say that  A line and a speal 

A floral, an earthy scent, food, citrus, essential oil, perfume dupe fragrance oil, vegan and Oatmeal Goatmilk and Honey is a given. In a 36 bar batch to my health food store today 10 of the bars were OGH.

I take in a vegan and a goatmilk, and since my vegan is also my essential oil bar, I take a popular FO in the GM. I give them the bars to try, along with a brochure, which spells out everything and tells them about wholesale. I say "I really like to have my buyers using my product, because if you love it, and you will, you will sell more for both of us". I carry 4 bars of each of my scents in my truck in flat rate boxes under my truck seats for impulse orders and have a simple Nubian Soap reciept to fill out and give them, since everything is printed off my computer I don't have receipt books.

Never ever ever tell them this is my first time. I make my stores think I am Proctor and Gamble  Vicki


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## kidsngarden

:yeahthat
Take what I have to say with a grain of salt as I am fairly new to wholesale ...One thing that I think is hard to guess is "how much?" I mean, I could take on 3 new stores tomorrow, then I would NOT have enough stock since I also have online sales and in may will do farmer's market again too. so there's a constant re-adjustment. When I first started with the exception of soap (but sometimes that too!) I was making product as I sold it. Then I tried to have 2 dozen bars of each fragrance. Now it is four dozen (my wholesale accounts don't place REALLY big orders) and that is enough to cover my stores and my site. I try to have 2 dozen of each fragrance of lotion in the 2 oz size and the 8 oz size I make as I sell, which is not very often. (I have 3 pounds of lotion on hand unscented for this purpose - I make lotion every two weeks) 

I have only 3 wholesale accounts that are active right now. 2 of those three came to me. The other I brought in samples of my products (all of them - that was stupid!) and they carry soaps and lotions now. I chose gifty type shops to market my soap to. I went around with cute little boxes of nice looking samples and left them for the staff to oooo and aaaah over, then called back if I wasn't able to immediately talk to the manager that day. getting one store out of the 4 I stopped at that day was pretty good I think, and not typical.

If I had to do it again...I would just bring in my top three best selling soaps (like vicki said) and let them choose what they would like to try and give them my wholesale price sheet, answer any questions. Then do a follow up call later. 

I had what I thought was going to be the store of stores - I huge food coop here. They seemed very interested. I spent DAYS putting everything together, came with this massive wholesale sheet listing everything I make, fragrances, etc. Brought a jar or bottle of everything. It took three minutes, three minutes and I was out of there. And then they turned out to be the flakiest of flakes anyway! I think she knew with all that product on my wholesale sheet it would have been way over my head.

Now I have scaled it all way back. And even today I scaled it back further to just bar soap and Shea butter. That's it. SIMPLE. And I took a lot of the advice from Vicki and Christy here and I am breathing a sigh of relief about the whole thing. I'm still wholesaling lotion to the current stores who carry it, but I don't want new lotion customers. It's just too much work. Maybe later, but now now.

And no, never tell them you are new! I say, "Fake it till you make it!!!" 

Bethany


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## KUrby

:rofl :rofl Protor and Gamble!! geezo Vicki!! LOL
Thanks for your input Bethany, good advice too.
I am kinda chicken right now, but I am getting there. I have to work on my line and my speal! :blush2
I have to get my storage racks from Vicki so I can make more soap. I have no room to cure soap!
vicki are you going soon to get racks, I can bring hayyyyyyyyy.. 
K


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## NubianSoaps.com

Shoot if you will bring hay I will just sell you up to 6 of mine and get myself new ones when I can get to Houston! And I know LeeAnn would take hay also if you have more for sale! Gotta wait until this rain is over though!

Was getting my taxes together today so I have a reciept for you, they are $13.98 each. Vicki


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## KUrby

No extra hay for anyone else. I am on the line with fillin you up. I just hope we get more rain for this year's crop.
K


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## kidsngarden

Vicki,
Do you use the bread racks for curing? That's what I want to use, I was wondering where you got your hook up for them?
Bethany


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## NubianSoaps.com

No mine are automatic dishwashing racks for commercial glasses and flatware. They are 3x3 and self rack on top of each other. I am 14 high and they are super strong. Each tray holds 40 of my big soaps. Go to Acemart.com and look at them. No more moving soap to racks and then off of them one freakin bar at a time! Vicki


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## Nigilover

This has been such a great thread--- thank you everyone. It's nice to be able to compare what I've been doing to how all you big time soapers are doing it. I only do soap at this point, but so many have asked about lotion--- those seem more challenging with bigger investments required, just haven't been ready to try them. Maybe I should do a small batch and see what I think--is it as fun as soap?


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## kidsngarden

No, lotion is nowhere near as fun as soap. I think that it why I hate it so much, well the first reason is the anal cleaning I have to do to make it, but the second reason is that I can't make pretty swirlies and such. Once you have formulated your recipe and tested it, the creative nature of it stops. I do like to try new fragrances or blends, but that is it. I'm a total party pooper, I know :/

Vicki - that is an awesome idea with the d/w racks! I can't move my soaps while curing too much cause they fall over, I guess I can lie them flat instead of up on thier sides, which is what I do now to conserve space on my cure rack, which only will hold about 250 bars at a time - not enough!!!

Bethany


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## NubianSoaps.com

Just one of the many ideas I likely stole form someone else and then saw them when at the resturant supply house getting chef aprons to wear when I soap, and thought it was mine  Vicki


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