# How far in do I have to go to reach the cervix?



## mysacrificenubians (Oct 27, 2007)

I need to be reminded because I'm not sure what I'm feeling. 

2 yo FF Nubian was due on Tuesday/Wednesday. VERY little discharge (no string of mucous) on her vulva. She'd been having a few contractions here and there, but nothing consistent. I checked her yesterday afternoon, but I couldn't get a good feel because she was very hard to keep still. 

Last night I could tell contractions were getting stronger, but still no mucous to speak of. No pushing. This morning I checked her again and got my entire hand in past my wrist. Again, she didn't appreciate the invasion, but I got a better feel. 

If I was in that far, was I beyond the cervix?
If I was past the cervix, then she is pretty much dilated, right? Why no mucous, why no pushing? 

It's been years since I've had to go that far in and not feel a kid or KNOW that I was feeling the cervix. 

On a side note: How in the world do you all check your does if you are by yourself? I always need a helper.


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## Ziggy (Nov 13, 2009)

I wouldn't intervene unless she appears to be in some kind of distress. I am guessing by due you are referring to 150 day. Going 3-5 days or even a couple more over is not unusual especially for a FF.


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## nightskyfarm (Sep 7, 2009)

Sounds like she is dilated and I just tie the doe to the wall of the stall. I have screw eyes placed in various spots of my large stall and each small stall has one for a water bucket, so I use those. Yes, at times you do need two people, but if you have to go in RIGHT then and that is how it mostly is, you tie her up. Some does will welcome the help and stand for you, but get her into a small space first if you can.


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

Kathleen, 

you are past the cervix when you can feel the kid in the uterus. On a doe that is not bearing down on the cervix adn still dialating, you may need to go further than your wrist to hip bones. You can find partially dialated cervix and feel the bubble on the other side but the cervix has multiple rings and they get narrower towards the uterus. You can put her on the milk stand to do a pelvic if you want to be sure.

Pelvics to check for presentation are often done on a doe that is already lying down and pushing and you need only fingers' lenght to feel feet and nose. At this point does cooperate much better. 

Doesn't sound like yours is in active labor yet, with some you will not get mucous until the actual delivery, others seem to have a string hanging for a while before pushing. Check ligaments, if she still has them, she can't pass the kid, they still need to soften. You can give some CMPK (injected) as a back up to utilize (it won't hurt and it may help), BoSe and just watch her. If mine was overdue I would do a pelvic until I felt either a cervix that is not dialated enough or a kid that may be in wrong position and the labor not progressing. Strong contractions will make the tail stand up (cramp like stiff position) and the rear legs get posty. But I agree that she doesn't seem to be in distress. Since she has not kidded for you and you don't have a pattern - I have seen a doe push standing up just hunching some but not vocal at all. This going on for a whole day resulted in C-section but the doe was never lying down and doign the "normal" pushing, circling or having string of mucous. 

Jana


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## mysacrificenubians (Oct 27, 2007)

She's not distressed, but I am! She ate her breakfast just as always and is laying in the sun with the others chewing her cud. 
I definitely did not feel a bubble, so I probably wasn't even to the cervix. I worry about a kid being in the wrong position and things not moving along. If that were the case, would she still try to push when the time came? 

I'm going to watch her and hopefully she will kid today. Her udder has certainly gotten bigger since 5 this morning.


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

Kathleen, 

you can just do a pelvic on the doe until you know what you are feeling. It doesn't cause the doe any more stress getting your hand past the wrist than getting it half the way to your elbow. If the kid is not in the right position, she won't be able to push it out. If the doe for some reason has sluggish labor or not producing enough natural oxytocin to fully dialate, you won't know until you find out what you have. If she was not yet at her due date I would definitely not do a check just out of curiosity how dialated she is, but on an overdue doe I would do a pelvic since no one will be able to help me or determine whether this is normal or not until I can tell them what I am feeling. 

Jana


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## Pam V (Jan 3, 2009)

I haven't had to ""go in" much past my wrist, myself. My husband did, but not me, so this is good information. 
A question: Has anyone had (how do I describe this) the opening, as in to the outside air for the kid, be so tight that the kid hangs up or won't pass unless helped. With your description I don't thinnk I have had cervix problems but seem to have had a doe or two that doesn't get all "saggy butt like" and that exit hole doesn't let the kid out without manipulation. And if so what is the best way to deal with this?


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

Pamela, 

what do you mean by opening and exit? The vulva? The cervix?? I am no expert on kidding , but the vulva should give to the kid if the doe is pushing and the kid is in correct position, it is very elastic. I know what you mean about some kids with large wide heads, if you have part kid out and the rest is not coming with just the pushing from the doe, you can gently pull on the front legs downward (towards the hocks) with the contraction to help out. Or clean the nose is what I was told and give the doe more time.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

You can simply use the amniotic fluid that is coming out of the doe to massage the vulva opening, opening it more and more so it doesn't rip and tear. You can also apply pressure to the doe from the outside, pinching on the kid so it's head does not keep going back down through the cervix after she pushes. Try never to pull on a head though without feet showing, and never ever pull on feet without a head delivered, it drives the head up and into the pinbones (tail of the doe) and it's almost impossible to pull a kid like this.

I check for dilation on the milkstand so the vagina is more than my fingers length away (and I have small hands) away, so yes I do insert a well lubed hand. Laying down and pushing my fingers can easily feel the cervix. The cervix is very much like a gasoline station gas pump nozzle with a coil spring thingy  . As the cervix dialates to allow the kid room to pass, those coils are stretched and although you can feel the bump bump bump with your hand they are no longer firm.

Doing pelvics is more about checking than pulling or anything else. I check to see if a doe is dilated, to see if I have to really listen to the intercome all night etc....or to check for presentation when my doe is really down and pushing, a simple check and a feel of nose/teeth and hooves, and I go back into the barn and read some more, or sit on the feed sack next to her and let her push. By checking right away if there is a leg back or something minimal, which is what most problems are, it can quickly and easily be fixed before she has pushed for 30 minutes and jammed 3 kids up against the cervix and gave me no room to maneuver anything without alot of cussing and pain to the doe. Vicki


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Kathleen, any babies yet?


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## mysacrificenubians (Oct 27, 2007)

She FINALLY started pushing about 8:30 this morning. Delivered a buck at 9:00 with some assistance. He had one elbow back. When I got his leg in the correct position his head was wedged just to the inside. Pushed what I could back in to bring his head down. It was a tight squeeze! She then easily delivered another buck at 9:35 and to my surprise a doe came at 10:00!
They weighed 8.5, 8 and 7 pounds. 
She didn't look that big and I was shocked at #3. I've got another due the 16th and she is HUGE, I wouldn't be surprised if she had quads. 

I had my daughter and a friend post some pictures on Facebook. It hasn't been working for me today for some reason and I can only text to post.


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## Legend Hills (May 29, 2008)

Oh that is great news! Congrats on triplets and especially that surprise doeling! Yay!


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

Congrats on triplets, and a doeling to boot


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## Pam V (Jan 3, 2009)

Congrats!! 

On the question of what I am talking about....Yes it would be the Vagina. This doe never got saggy and puffy like I've seen...I had commented on it several times....
Why isn't she all puffy and saggy?" The other thing I thought was strange was that the amniotic fluid came from within and sprayed my ankles, so I checked and there was teeth and feet, waited. Eventually when the the head and feet were pushing against the vaginal opening with pressure and it just wasn't "elastic" as you said. Is this more a first kiddding thing or just weird?
When I had more time to recall I remembered the other doe was a Pygora with a first kidding and the kid had a big head. So not so much that the vaginal opening was tight like the Saanen/Alpine.
Probably not a big deal but I thought it was different.


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