# Constipated Doe? Trying To Push...



## Golden Delta Alpines (Mar 8, 2012)

Okay, my 4-year-old Apine doe is looking constipated.
Yesterday, she was completely fine, eating and drinking normally, peeing and pooping normally. 
Her milk production was normal.

This morning, she didn't want to finish eating her alfalfa and grain. She just laid down by her alfalfa bucket.
She did nibble on some, but didn't want to finish it.

She tries to push, but nothing is coming out (it looks like there is either a lot of feces there or one large feces, when she pushes).

She'll stand for a while then push, then she'll lay down, then push. Nothing.

The only thing I can think of that was different yesterday, was when we gave her and another doe two packages of Saltines. Not a package each, they just shared. 
Maybe that plugged her up? But the other doe is fine.

What should I do?


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## H Diamond Farms (Jun 3, 2011)

Well, I dunno about adult does, but I had a kid constipated last night. Gave her some karo sysrup, and today.. let's just say she is not constipated anymore, lol. You could also try an enema.


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## carlidoe (Jul 30, 2010)

Maybe she has eaten a piece of trash or something? I would give her an enema and see if she can pass it.


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## Golden Delta Alpines (Mar 8, 2012)

I've heard of enemas and constipation, but I don't know what it is or how to do one.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Golden Delta Alpines said:


> I've heard of enemas and constipation, but I don't know what it is or how to do one.


Buy one at the drug store; it'll come with directions. Not sure if you'd use the same solution, but the equipment would be the same.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Are you sure she is not straining to urinate? Is she pregnant or open? When did she kid last? Have you taken her temp? Is she cudding frequently? I don't really know how big a saltine package is, but doubt it would cause this much trouble.


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## Golden Delta Alpines (Mar 8, 2012)

No, she's definitely straining to poop (I can see it).
She kidded March 20th with twins, easy text-book delivery. I haven't taken her temp yet, but I would think it would be hard to do, since berries are right there.
I haven't seen her cud yet...


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## Golden Delta Alpines (Mar 8, 2012)

How much Karo syrup should I give her, and how often? Can it be light corn syrup?
I also have corn, veggie, olive, and sunflower oil.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

If it were my doe, and I could see the poo trying to pass, I would glove up and manually extract what i could. Then I would follow that with a sudsy enema and see what happens. You can't let something like this go on too long. Goats just don't do well without their digestion perking along as designed. I had one with an impaction and without multiple enemas and the vet tubing her with oil, I would have lost her. And while she is not eating, she will need b complex injections.


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## Golden Delta Alpines (Mar 8, 2012)

Okay, I was just wondering if manually extracting, or trying to, would push it in deeper and prolong the "process".


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Please do not give her a bunch of sugar.
This will only make the ph of the rumen acidic and further complicate things.
Enema is the way to go and a huge dose of milk of magnesia.
Oil is fine but it will still upset digestion but please...do not complicate things with sugar.
Goats are very sensitive to changes in ph and you will acidify to the point of shutting down digestion if you add a lot of sugar to already stalled digestion.
Yes- b vits imperative. 
Lee


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

You could certainly use a syringe and put some oil in the rectum around the poop. The lubrication may help her push it on out.


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## carlidoe (Jul 30, 2010)

At this point there is no way to soften up the mass from the inside. Enema, lube up and go in. Fun!


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## Golden Delta Alpines (Mar 8, 2012)

Is there a way I can make my own enema? 
I live 30 minutes away from the nearest store....


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

A feeding tube and warm soapy or lubey water makes a good enema. Don't know what volume a goat would need.


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## lonestrchic23 (Jan 7, 2011)

I have given an adult goat an enema with a turkey baster before....

Needless to say, I bought a new one before Thanksgiving 

Mineral oil, sudsy warm water, glycerin, anything to lube it up & clear her out.


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## Golden Delta Alpines (Mar 8, 2012)

I gave her an enema last night.
She looks the same this morning, this time she didn't want to eat any of her alfalfa. But she did drink water.
She isn't pushing as hard as yesterday morning...
She just wants to lay there in the shade.

When should I call the vet?
I don't have any vit. b injections.
Does anyone know of a good vet around Austin or Killeen that knows goats?
This will be the first time I have to take a goat to the vet...


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Taylor did you glove up and go in?

Now would be a good time to get her to a vet. It could be a serious impaction.

Tam


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## Golden Delta Alpines (Mar 8, 2012)

Yes, yesterday, I tried going in and pulling stuff out with my finger, but it was very hard. Hardly any room to go in because of the feces, and she would just wiggle and kick.


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## H Diamond Farms (Jun 3, 2011)

If you can't clear the impaction right now on your own, you need to take her to the vet right now. Do you have a vet you trust for other animals? If so, call them and talk to them or see if they know someone else who knows goats better.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

And goats also impact from worms, tape worms especially.


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## Golden Delta Alpines (Mar 8, 2012)

Okay, we took Elsie to the vet yesterday.
She gave her a vitB inj. and gave us penicillin and CMPK gel to give her for the next 3-5 days.
The enema worked just as we got there at the vets (she made a big mess in the trailer).
The vet did a fecal, and she told us that Elsie did not have an over abundance of worms, but she recommended that we deworm her anyways when we get home, and to give her probiotics as well.
The vet told us it was Elsie's energy intake/metabolism that was unbalanced.
I can't remember the exact thing she said to me, but something was unbalanced, something to do with her metabolism.
(I feel bad that I can't fully remember)

So I dewormed her with Quest gel, and will be giving her Bene-Bac.
Does the CMPK gel burn?
Elsie was fighting us when we were trying to give it to her. She acted like she was in pain.
I wish I didn't have to give it to her...


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Yes, the CMPK gel does burn and can irritate their throats so bad they don't want to eat. Glad the enema worked. If I couldn't get the injectable, I would rather use the homemade formula that is made of over-the-counter mineral supplements. A dose is one "posture-d" tablet plus extra magnesium and potassium. The exact combo is listed in GK 101. It is not as good as the injectable but does work as long as the doe can swallow properly.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Like Dimethox, Nutra Drench, cattle oral gells, if you put a tiny bit on your tongue, you will understand. Vicki


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## Golden Delta Alpines (Mar 8, 2012)

And I have to give her like 30-50 ccs of it once a day for three more days.
Is there anything I can mix it with so it won't burn her?


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## Golden Delta Alpines (Mar 8, 2012)

Another question:
Elsie's milk production went down to hardly anything, since she didn't eat Tuesday night and Wednesday.
Now she is eating alfalfa and even grain, but will her milk go back up?
How long should it take to go back to what she was producing a day?
I have to stretch the goat milk I have now (Kada's milk) with some whole cow milk to feed Elsie's kids.

Also, what can I mix with the probiotics (a powder) I have to give Elsie? She didn't want to eat applesauce.


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## feistymomma (May 20, 2009)

I would dump the gel and give her the homemade found in GK 101 like Michelle suggested. It would be much easier for her to take IMO.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

I didn't think probiotics did anything for an adult goat.

Can you ask your vet for injectable CMPK? That would be the best way to get it in her. If not, I'd do what Michelle said - make the homemade version.

I just had a doe that wasn't much interested in her grain ration for a couple of days. She went from 6 lb/milking to 4 lbs/milking (it wasn't milk fever). I gave her a shot of Fortified Vit B and that did the trick. Was eating very well and production went back up.

Give her a couple of days on the correct supplements. You should see an increase.


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## H Diamond Farms (Jun 3, 2011)

Glad things got cleared up! 
Why is she on the cmpk? I'm sure there is a reason, I just am curious as I don't know it.


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## Golden Delta Alpines (Mar 8, 2012)

I think because she had stopped eating for a day and a half.
I'm pretty sure I read somewhere on GK101 that when a lactating doe stops eating to give them CMPK to prevent pregancy toxemia.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Golden Delta Alpines said:


> I think because she had stopped eating for a day and a half.
> I'm pretty sure I read somewhere on GK101 that when a lactating doe stops eating to give them CMPK to prevent pregancy toxemia.


Close. But this doe can't have pregnancy toxemia if she's already kidded thus no longer pregnant. Milk fever, yes.


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## Golden Delta Alpines (Mar 8, 2012)

What's milk fever again? Sometimes I get the terms mixed up...


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

Hypocalcemia.


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## lonestrchic23 (Jan 7, 2011)

If you can't get the injectable CMPK, I'd definately use Sue Reith's homemade recipe.... That oral gel, like Nutradrench & propylene glycol, are caustic & burn. I tasted some, no way would I drench my goat with any of it. 

You can also get the injectable calcium gluconate labeled as IV for cattle ($5 at TSC) & warm it to body temp after drawing 30cc in syringe & inject it SubQ, slowly. Not as great as CMPK injectable, but it's better than nothing. I'd give her the home made CMPK mixed in molasses water, as well as the calcium gluconate, but thats just me.

While you're at TSC grabbing the $5 calcium gluconate, I'd grab some 30cc syringes, needles & a $5 bottle of injectable dextrose.... Bottle looks just like the calcium gluconate.

It's not uncommon for ketosis to follow on the tails of hypocalcemia, and the injectable dextrose is a double whammy sugar/energy boost as you can inject it SubQ (same manner as the calcium, sterile, warmed to body temp, injected slowly), plus you can give it orally (it taste yummy, yep, I tasted that too). I have found that treating ketosis with injectable dextrose to be easier (on me & the doe) & faster, than drenching with that awful propylene glycol...

Keep a close watch on her, keep an eye on her temp, and get her calcium levels up..... These metabolic issues can progress rapidly, even after they look better for a bit.... I lost the most expensive doe I've ever bought, along with her 2 kids this year to hypocalcemia/ketosis.... It was awful, and you REALLY have to stay on top of this.... 

Probiotics would come second to getting her calcium up & making sure her sugar/energy needs are met as failure to do so could cause things to get out of hand quickly...

Good luck, keep us posted & when in doubt, don't hesitate to ask for help


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## lonestrchic23 (Jan 7, 2011)

Apparently I am search impaired today, couldn't find the recipe in GK101, but here's an outside link with instructions on making CMPK at home:

http://goats.wetpaint.com/page/Hypocalcemia+-+CMPK+Kitchen+Recipe

Everything you need will be on the vitamin isle anywhere. I crush up the proper amount of pills, a stir them into a small amount of warm molasses water, and drench with it. Repeat in a few hours & continue until she's back to her normal self...


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## carlidoe (Jul 30, 2010)

Since her milk production has dropped and she is back on her alfalfa and grain, wouldn't she be ok without the throat burning CMPK?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

TSC also carry MFO which is the oral CMPK solution. I don't have time to click the link but if you find Crystal that this is Sue's info, make sure and contact the site and ask them to give her credit. I do that for Joyce's info on saanendoah.com stollen stuff...and today on FB someone had Tim Pruitt's granddaughter milking up on their wall!


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## lonestrchic23 (Jan 7, 2011)

Yea, that site has a lot of Sue's stuff, though I was under the impression it was her page.... Credit is given to her in the link, & her name at the bottom of the article...

Nice that someone used the pic of Tim's grand daughter..... Wonder if they considered asking first (probably not.)


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## pjt367 (Apr 3, 2010)

Tried to delete my too late response. Couldn't figure out how.


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## Golden Delta Alpines (Mar 8, 2012)

Elsie gave 2 pounds of milk this evening, making it 3 pounds of milk total today. It went up from yesterday's total milk production, which was 2 pounds.
She has been feeling a lot better, not completely back to normal, but enough to be head-butting with Kada. 
She has been eating her alfalfa and finishing her grain.

This time I tried putting the probiotics on her grain and then wetting it with water, but she ate around it.
Then I tried sunflower oil instead of water, but she still ate around it.
What else should I try?
How about mixing it into a water slurry, then squirting the slurry into her mouth with a syringe?

Do I still have to give her CMPK gel tonight? 
It's too late now to go to TSC (I didn't read these posts till now).


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

The best probiotics is to swipe a cud from another goat and STUFF it down her throat. :biggrin


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

I would be more concerned about getting her some CMPK than worrying about probiotics.


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## Golden Delta Alpines (Mar 8, 2012)

I'll plan on getting the vitamins, to make homemade CMPK, this morning. Along with the injectable calcium gluconate and dextrose at TSC.

Is this recipe the right one? Just want to be sure:

To make one 30cc dose:

1/2 a 600mg Posture D tablet
1 of the 315mg Citracal tablet
1 of the 500mg Potassium tablet
1/2 a 150mg Magnesium tablet

Crush up above amounts of each pill.
Serve with a little yogurt or moasses-water and drench with a syringe.
Give another dose an hour later until back to normal. (As in, one dose every hour)

So, I give her a dose each hour until she's back to normal?


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## Golden Delta Alpines (Mar 8, 2012)

How often do I give her the injectable calcium gluconate and dextrose?


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

That is the recipe I have used for "cmpk" but the formula must have changed on the posture D because to get the same dosages for all the minerals, I didn't need the citracal.
I personally wouldn't worry at all with the probiotics but do like denise said and get cud if you can.


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## lonestrchic23 (Jan 7, 2011)

My vet said the calcium gluconate should be given every 4-6 hours. While you're poking her, might as well do the dextrose too  Be sure to warm it though, hurts less. I microwave damp towels until burning hot, wrap my full syringes.... Wait for towels to cool & repeat. I carry them to the barn in a fresh hot towel.... Usually takes 3 wrappings in hot towels to get them warmer than my skin.


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## Golden Delta Alpines (Mar 8, 2012)

Ok, I'll do that.
I skipped giving Elsie the CMPK gel last night, and this morning she didn't really want to eat alfalfa, and she went and laid down under a tree.
I didn't think skipping the gel would do that to her, but I'll give her a 30cc dose of the homemade CMPK as soon as I mix it together.

I couldn't find Posture D anywhere; it wasn't at Walmart, Walgreens, or the Vitamin Shoppe.
So, I bought a jar of Calcium-Magnesium Complex tablets that have: 500mg calcium, 250mg Phosphorus, and 250mg Magnesium in each tablet.
Could I give her 1 plus a 1/4 of these tablets along with five 99mg Potassium tablets, to make the 1-dose homemade CMPK?

I couldn't find anything else that had Phosphorus, except for these Calcium tablets...


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## Golden Delta Alpines (Mar 8, 2012)

I also found a 250ml bottle of High-Level Vitamin B Complex injectable from Durvet at TSC.
Is this something I can give Elsie if I need to?


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## Golden Delta Alpines (Mar 8, 2012)

Also, how much injectable dextrose do I give her? 30cc?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

No time to look it up but I only give dextrose IV....I do not remember why we don't give it subq. Please look this up before giving this. Vicki


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## lonestrchic23 (Jan 7, 2011)

I gave 30cc warmed to body temp of dextrose, SubQ. 

Got the idea from a friend, then verified with the vet who did that csection on my doe and he said there was no reason why it would be a problem... With the doe I lost we ended up doing a dextrose IV.... With my doe who had ketosis (verified with ketone strips), injecting SubQ, plus giving it orally (taste yummy, so why not?) it pulled her up quickly...

I've looked for more info on giving it SubQ, but have come up empty, so if anyone find anything, please share


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Dextrose goes in as an isotonic or even hypertonic solution, but the sugar in it breaks down quickly, so it becomes a hypotonic solution. It would be like injecting sterile water, which could cause necrosis of the tissues if in large quantities, and may also be painful. You can give it if you dilute it with saline/normasol/LRS/etc. first though. We used to mix up a 5% dextrose solution for subq injections, using LRS and 50% dextrose (the concentration it normally comes in). It can also be given intraperitoneally, which I'm not sure is actually a word, but I don't think you would want to go that route with an adult goat and all that rumen.


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## pjt367 (Apr 3, 2010)

I found that black strap molasses has a high amount of potassium in it so I use 1 tablespoon with my other crushed pills. My vet reminded me that calcium needs vitamin D to absorb. And then I read somewhere that vitamin d needs vitamin a to do it's work so I give a chewable children's vitamin and extra vitamin C with my CMPK concoction. It took a little training holding the vitamin in their mouths until they chewed it but now I can drop the pill pieces in each girl's grain rationand they usually chew it all up.


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## Golden Delta Alpines (Mar 8, 2012)

Thanks everyone for all your help!

Elsie is back to normal.

Your replies helped me in other ways also. 
Now, I know about stealing cud, making homemade CMPK, measuring vitamins, withholding probios, injecting dextrose and calcium.....


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

Ehhhmm, and no more saltine crackers......


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## Golden Delta Alpines (Mar 8, 2012)

Yes, I learned my lesson.


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