# milking through



## todog (Dec 10, 2011)

Does anyone milk through. I have several does that milked good for 3 yrs. I have retired one due to her age. The two I milk right now have been milking for over a year. I am in it for the milk not the kids.


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

I milked one for 40 months! 

I milk all of mine thru at least once in 1st or 2nd freshening, I want to know what they've got genetically before I make a bunch of kids out of them.

Milking thru is the best, its peaceful, stress free, happy times.


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## todog (Dec 10, 2011)

Wow, 40 months. I haven't tried that long yet. I agree with you about gentics. I only have one registered doe. I don't show either. Again I am in it for the milk.


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## Fiberaddict (Jun 4, 2009)

We do! Only 24 months, though. This year, I'm going to try to go longer - I don't need more kids, just the milk.


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## nightskyfarm (Sep 7, 2009)

I milk through rotationally about an average of 6 to 8 does out of a herd of 23. So long as their SCC counts are in range, I keep the heavier producers milking. I would rather have a goat ave 6 lbs for 24 months consistently than a doe tha peaks at 12 and drops to 4 lbs in 7 months. Milking through is far less stressful and kidding every other year is much easier on everyone. Does that I really want offspring out of will be bred and of course yearlings. But, steady does will be milked through, ones who have proven themselves in this will be bred for the specific trait of long lactation and kids from them will be retained. I would like to only breed half my herd each year including yearlings.


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

I've only gone as long as 24 months on one doe but after a winter drop and milking just once a day she went right back up to a gallon in the spring. And her weight came back and she looked terrific. If I can sell these bucks of mine, my whole herd will milk through this year, and my keeper kids won't be bred till next year. 

Kidding out every year gives you a larger amount of milk for a period of time, but unless you sell those kids immediately, your milk will just have to go into them, so even a lower amount of milk produced daily will give you more milk for your family....and no kiddings in freezing temps. etc. Yep, I'm liking this thought more and more.

I'm really curious how long does can stay in milk without breeding and what their output is after two, three, or even four years.


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## nightskyfarm (Sep 7, 2009)

Sunny has been in milk now for 1.5 years with a low SCC I'll let you know when I end up getting her bred and have to dry her off. She is producing almost 3 quarts. this is a Saanen who came into milk for no apparent reason except she wanted to and has been in milk ever since. That was January 2011. Other does just don't get bred and keep milking until the following Fall and are then bred. Some at 30 - 60 days bred will start to decrease and dry off early, but I can not fault them if they have been milking steadily for so long.


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

Loving this thread!

Wish we had a way to "Favorite" or Bookmark certain threads.

Jennifer, you mentioned "low SCC" twice... but my understanding is that milking thru can bring on high SCC when udder cells start going thru a renewal process. As long as cultures are clear, there's no problem, the automated SCC machines count all cells, not just the ones that indicate infection. Or you can get the more senstive kind of SCC. 

So how do you use SCC to decide when a doe has had enough milking thru?


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## NWgoats (Jul 17, 2008)

Thanks for asking that Lacia. I wondered that myself. And is a higher SCC necessarily
not good? Does that make the milk "less good" for consumption or is it a danger to the
doe? I am another that needs the milk, but not the excess kids. The longest I have ever
milked was 19 months, my current doe is on her 12th month right now and still giving me
3 to 3 1/2 lbs. milking once a day. (She is a mini)


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

My understanding from significant looking into this, is that it depends on the technique used to do the SCC.

The computerized machines count all cells, they are designed for cows, where the only cells that show up in milk are the problem ones.

But goats are different, they shed cell parts as part of healthy normal. 

The standards for SCC reconize this and give goats a higher standard.

But milking thru, I got crazy high numbers at times and was freaking out! Cultured and cultured... nothing grew... milk tasted ok... maybe cell parts make for extra protein :rofl

Its much expensive and not very available to get the manual kind of count where only white cells are counted.

This confusion is about the only drawback I found to milking thru. I hope others with more years of experience than my 3+ of milking thru weigh in here.

Interesting maybe, maybe not, but the doe with the crazy highest SCC's but nothing cultured, was also my precocious milker as a yearling. She's not really ever dried up after FF either, even after I didn't milk her for months.


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## nightskyfarm (Sep 7, 2009)

If a doe can carry a low SCC, say under around 600,000 she's good in my book and I will continue to milk her until the next season.We test every 2 weeks to see where the does are in their SCC levels. Does that can maintain a lower level are looked at favorably and closely when it comes to breeding, these are does that I want kids out of. Ideally, I want to breed half my herd on rotation: good for the does and less kids for me to raise, while still getting the right amount of milk for the cheese room for the longest possible time. Also SCC leevels change over time with stress levels, seasonally with estrus and then when the forage is at it's peak and the does produce more milk. Generally more volume seasonally equates to lowered SCC levels. Levels like these are NOT a human healtrh hazard nor are they a goat health hazard unless of course, accompanied by othe signs of mastitis. Somatic Cell Count alone does not determine mastitis or a health hazard.


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

Lacia, I know your MMs crank out the milk- how much per day was the doe producing that you milked for 40 months? I have two Miniature LaMancha doe kids out of my LM who hit 10lbs per day as a 2 yo FF. I've kept them for the purpose of milking and would love to be able to milk through, but I don't have the desire to put a doe up on the stand twice a day or 1 or 2 lbs of milk. What did your doe milk at peak versus what she continued to milk well into lactation? I'm guessing enough to make it worth your while if you kept her in milk for so long!


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## lorit (May 10, 2010)

Ditto to all the above reasons for milking thru. 

Lacia, can you explain more about scc #s? The #s I get back from provo dhi - are they "cow" numbers and how does that factor down for goats?


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## nightskyfarm (Sep 7, 2009)

The lab that does my milk samples counts the somatic by hand for the most accurate count. I also use an on farm test, they make two, one for cows and one for goats. These tests are VERY accurate if done correctly. They are an expense, but in my case invaluable and you have your count after 45 min right there in front of you. This test uses the green stain method for goat milk. There are several dealers that sell the PortaSCC one is Register's Sheep Supplies. http://goatsupplies.netfirms.com/milking supplies.html


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## nightskyfarm (Sep 7, 2009)

Cow testing equipment used on goat goat milk will give a level of Somatic cells which will be off from the actual by more than 30% higher than the sample would have been if tested the proper way for goat milk. Butterfats will be off as well if the testing equipment used was for cow milk.


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## Dorit (Apr 20, 2011)

Im unfamiliar with milk through. Does that mean you keep milking while the doe is pregnant? Or keep milking and do not breed the doe at all? Like others I don;t want kids, I just want milk. If its the latter, what kind of risk are you taking? Dorit


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## Rose (Oct 26, 2007)

It means milking for an extended period and not breeding for kids every year. :biggrin


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Dorit, yes, you don't breed the doe, just keep on milking. Only risk is if the doe doesn't have the will to milk and drops her production too much on you and she's not bred so no more milk coming until you can get her bred and to kid again! But girls with a good will to milk, a nice level lactation should do fine. I milked my first nubian through, I can't remember how long I know it was at least 20 months. Because I didn't have a buck. The breeder that said I could use her buck changed her mind at the last minute- like when my doe came in heat. But that's ok, if she hadn't I may not have gotten my first buck, Blue


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## nightskyfarm (Sep 7, 2009)

Dorit - we are talking about milking a doe through for 2 or more seasons without breeding her. It can be done.


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## Dorit (Apr 20, 2011)

Yeay :lol I have a 7 yo doe who had 5 kids, one born dead, and Id like to give her a break this year. Do you think that it will be hard to breed her the following year?


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Not as long as she is milking well and thus doesn't get fat.


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## Angelknitter12 (Feb 16, 2012)

I want to milk through, but with my human consumption license it is tricky. If my SCC is high I lose my license. It is natural for a Doe to have a higher SCC the longer they milk with their natural cycles. Frustrating. If I could milk and not breed for the next 15 years I would. LOL


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Dorit if she doesn't stay in milk, a 7 year old will likely get breeding complications giving her a rest. She doesn't need a rest, it's you that think she needs a rest. The healthiest does kid out every year and milk 10 months of that. Barren does who are allowed to have more grain than they need, get fat, they get hard to breed, and with a 7 year old, I would not now decide to let her have an extended lactation. She is Nubian, you live in the south  Breed her. Breed her while she is still in milk, milk her for 100 days into her pregnancy, dry her up, let her kid.....that is how you keep the older does healthy. Vicki


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## Dorit (Apr 20, 2011)

Ok, thanks for the advise, I will breed her.


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

smithurmonds said:


> Lacia, I know your MMs crank out the milk- how much per day was the doe producing that you milked for 40 months? I have two Miniature LaMancha doe kids out of my LM who hit 10lbs per day as a 2 yo FF....don't have the desire to put a doe up on the stand twice a day or 1 or 2 lbs of milk. What did your doe milk at peak versus what she continued to milk well into lactation? I'm guessing enough to make it worth your while if you kept her in milk for so long!


Let me tell you, I did just about everything wrong for this doe, and the fact that she kept milking was amazing. Its a milking through saga on how *not* to do it, except that I learned a lot and got a bit lucky.

She was my 1st milker back in 2008 when I got goats again after so many years of being gone from the farming life, so she got all my mistakes and still milked if I milked. She would cut production pretty quickly to a lower but consistent level if I milked 1x/day, but would amazingly come back up if I started milking 2x/d again!

At about 10 months into her lactation, she kidded in mid-fall, she's a year around cycler/breeder, her production was way down and I was getting others bred and I just didn't care yet about persistence, and everyone was telling me to just rebreed her, so I stopped milking her for about 10 days, then decided that was dumb to breed her in fall when she cycles year around! So I focused on breeding the others and went back to milking her. Her milk then was way down, under a cup! Came back up to 1.5ish lbs on 1x/d milking after the initial 2-3/d to get her going again, and this was in mid fall, remember, so not adventageous circumstances.

I don't remember all the details now, but Dec-ish I decided to dry her off and stopped milking for over 2 weeks, until the one I was counting on milking got mastitis and I realized another doe wasn't preg after all, panic! And I was going to be without milk OMG! Having raw goat milk back in my life had saved me from bad health problems, I was so relieved to be feeling better after years of problems, and I wasn't about to lose it again!

So I tried milking her and got less than a quarter cup, LOL! I kept trying and pretty quickly her milk came back up! This time I was better and milked faithfully 2x/d and she was amazing, came back up very steadily to almost 3 lbs! At that her udder wasn't stretchy, duh, and it would be really tight, or she would have done more clearly.

I'd planned on breeding her in Apr/May for Sep/Oct kids, just because I could with her, but Life intervened and it didn't get done until she would have been kidding Nov/Dec-ish and I wasn't crazy about that partly cuz my calendar was getting booked solid with teaching tax classes which is not very flexible for kiddings, blah blah blah... At that point, I'd had some ups and downs with others, appreciated her steadfast reliability, had learned the value of persistence in milkers, and planning my year better, and so I just decided to see how far she'd go since I'd missed the window I wanted. And she just milked like a solid machine for about the next almost 2 yrs, as long as I was consistent.

So, for the majority of her milking thru, the 2 yrs past my screw ups, she was at 2 to 2.5-ish lbs milking 2x/day, down to 1.5-2lbs 1x/d, but it was still very worth it to me for a couple reasons. She's easy, had my favorite tasting milk, great BF & solids, why not see how far she'd go, breeds off season, etc. I mostly keep my does milk separate, just one of my geek things, I've become a milk snob, LOL! And her's was my favorite to drink.

She's the *easiest* doe I have, dutiful dairy goat, no shenanigans, putting her on the stand is just so easy and peaceful. My others, while technically well behaved ON the milkstand, are PITA clowns and I'd be (metaphorically, not literally!) killing them if I wasn't laughing so hard. I need more kids out of her, she's just a solid, good girl, and I have enough entertainment around here!

Long winded answer to your question, but it wasn't a straight forward milk thru situation, which makes her performance even more impressive in my opinion. She had peaked at right around a gallon, so not huge milker, but very respectable for a mini. It was her 2nd F but she wasn't milked at all for her 1st (before I got her), just dam raised kids.

In my opinion, this is the kind of reliability and durability that LaManchas were bred for by the pioneering women who created them. I've heard of others, Saanens, Alpines etc that are difficult to dry off and I've said "I want those!" but I wonder if LM's are still close enough to their pioneer roots to just be so durable and milk like she did thru all my ups and downs. I just feel grateful for her and she doesn't get nearly enough attention with all the attention hogging clowns here.

She's one of my bigger does, taller, looks more LM than ND mix, about 90 lbs, I'd intended to breed her back to full LM this Apr/May and again in my life 24/7 isn't even close to enough hours in the day/week this time of year and I've let her down again... you'd think I'd learn!

Nicki, 10 lbs is great! You said "out of your LM" so they are F1 mini's? From what I can tell the F1's are amazing, then it gets more variable in later generations. How big are yours that are doing 10 lbs? What's the lines on the ND side of them?


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

Thanks for all the honest info, Lacia!

Yes, my favorite doe here is a purebred LaMancha (sire is Heart-Mt-Carter-Kids out of Sumatra, dam is Winterwood's) and we freshened her for the first time with one of our Nigerians who has since been sold. He had a modest pedigree, but one of his daughters has earned her milking stars with ADGA and AGS. So the kids are indeed F1 and our first minis. 

They favor their dam for sure and I retained both as our two LMs will be bred to a LaMancha buck next time and I want to see first hand what minis have to offer. I like larger goat so I don't have a vested interest in them being much smaller, but what I would like to see is an increase in feed efficiency. I'd love to have a couple girls on the milk string who can milk through and produce a respectable amount on less feed, although despite the many warnings from ND folks about the standard breeds' inefficiency I have simply not found this to be the case with my LaMancha. She's the one who hit 10 lbs at peak. She's a medium sized LaMancha- last I taped her she was around 140 lbs. But, her sisters have all done a lot of growing as two year olds so I'm sure she's not done.


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