# Close to starting production



## cheesemoose

Think I will go with ths molds untill Ican have one made

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HDPE-Soap-M...980?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2308b5324c

Shooting for a 5 oz bar.

Main issue remaining lard or no lard and if no lard what rceipe

Anyone have experince with something like this

16 oz. Coconut
16 oz. Palm
16 oz. Olive Oil
2 oz. Castor Oil


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## Lynn_Theesfeld

*Re: Close to starting prouction*

You don't want those molds!!! I started with them and they bow at the bottoms! Not a very good investment 

I have made close to your recpie, but didn't use as much olive or coconut..... the thing with soaping is start with small batches try out your product until you find something you love- Then sell it 

Lynn


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## NubianSoaps.com

How much will your bars cost if you use this recipe? This recipe means you have to pay frieght for palm oil. Palm is unsustainable so the same kind of person who critques your label for lard will critique your label for plam. Why the castor oil? You already get bubbles and a harder bar from coconut oil? Why so much coconut oil? It's cheaper and gives you the same benefits with it just around 10%. Olive oil is expensive....why not just 2 or 3 ounces of it and the rest a cheaper oil, soybean oil is local and super inexpensive followed by sunflower and salflower...I have never soaped with canola or corn etc... There is also no difference in any of these softer oils in the finished bar.....if you discount your water to much soy can cause problems with your fragranced oils.

Start with the Walmart recipe, put it into one of the calculators and then start subbing out the lard if you have to, see if you can keep the hardness, moisturising, etc...catagories as good as they were.

In the end you have to soap, give bars to friends, have them critique the bars....it's why nobodies bar they actually soap, few peoples actual recipes for anything are freely given out, it takes time and money to do what we did.

You can also sub out Lard for Tallow, it is what is in 99.9% of grocery store bars.

I believe PJ soaps a 5 ounce bar, she does it with the Kelsie (Vicki) mold, perhaps she will chime in also. Vicki


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## Anita Martin

Around here I can get canola oil just a few pennies more than soy and as far as I can tell there is no difference between canola and any other soft oil. I use a lot of canola in most of my recipes now, especially since I just got a super duper deal on about 200 gallons of it I used to use a lot more coconut oil, thinking it would make a harder bar, and it does harden up faster but my new recipe does harden, just takes a week or so longer. But the savings are soooo worth it. 

I have given away hundreds of dollars worth of soap. Runined hundreds of dollars worth of soap. It's part of the process of learning, and I'm still very, very small compared to many other soapers on here. That's about to change though!


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## cheesemoose

Here are the numbers Om that recipe. Only have shipping from Jdwards but shipping not figured in yet. Purchase quantise are 2+ times the 60 lbs i figured bar cost on

J Edwards Bamble Berry Camden-grey 

16 oz. Coconut	55	$123.50	$2.25 35	$68.50	$1.96 35	$70.00	$2.00
16 oz. Palm 22 $30.50	$1.39 35 $53.55 $1.53 35 $93.10 $2.66
16 oz. Olive Oil	40	$108.00	$2.70 35	$93.00	$2.66 35	$99.75	$2.85
2 oz. Castor Oil	7.72	$19.25	$2.49 3	$10.08	$3.36 3	$10.65	$3.55

$281.25 $225.13 $273.50	
shipping	$85.21 
total	$366.46 

12 lbs	60 lbs 
3.8	19.2	$43.11 $37.58 $38.40
3.8	19.2	$26.62 $29.38 $51.07
3.8	19.2	$51.84 $51.02 $54.72
0.5	2.4	$5.98 $8.06 $8.52

60 lbs	$127.56 $126.03 $152.71

per bar	$0.66 $0.66 $0.80


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## MF-Alpines

Did you check prices from Columbus Foods? Doing a quick check, pricing there is cheaper.


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## cheesemoose

A little bit higher

J Edwards Bamble Berry Camden-grey Columbus Foods 
lb lb lb lb 
16 oz. Coconut	55	$123.50	$2.25 35	$68.50	$1.96 35	$70.00	$2.00 50	71	$1.42
16 oz. Palm	22	$30.50	$1.39 35	$53.55	$1.53 35	$93.10	$2.66 50	77.5	$1.55
16 oz. Olive Oil	40	$108.00	$2.70 35	$93.00	$2.66 35	$99.75	$2.85 35	99.05	$2.83
2 oz. Castor Oil	7.72	$19.25	$2.49 3	$10.08	$3.36 3	$10.65	$3.55 7	17.78	$2.54

$281.25 $225.13 $273.50 265.33	
shipping	$85.21 
total	$366.46 

12 lbs	60 lbs 
3.8	19.2	$43.11 $37.58 $38.40 $27.26
3.8	19.2	$26.62 $29.38 $51.07 $29.76
3.8	19.2	$51.84 $51.02 $54.72 $54.34
0.5	2.4	$5.98 $8.06 $8.52 $20.48

60 lbs	$127.56 $126.03 $152.71 $131.84

per bar	$0.66 $0.66 $0.80 $0.69


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## NubianSoaps.com

But that is without freight. Which can double the cost and coconut oil from walmart is cheaper than that without freight. 

Castor has zero label appeal, it also adds nothing that you are already getting with your coconut oil.
Lower your coconut oil, you don't need to be over 10 to 15%, it simply costs to much.
If you want olive for label appeal do it with a few ounces and use a cheaper oil for your base oil, soybean oil is at walmart cheaper than freight to any place, it is the vegetable oil, their brand, all veggie oils and Crisco are 100% soybean oil.
Ship in your palm and pomace olive oil.
Nearly everyone resells Columbus Foods butters and oils, it's where most supermarket chains have their products bottled, we are using a division of Columbus Foods, Soapers choice until you move to larger amounts, the price then goes down drastically. So don't buy from resellers, if you can buy a 33 gallon barrel buy it, if you can buy a 50 gallon barrel buy it.

My point is that when your first starting out, use local products, make a thousand bars, see who your customers are and then tweak your recipe to cheaper oils or label appeal as customers ask if you make any bars with cocoa butter in it, shea in it etc...

I started with 100% Oliveoil bars, paper wrappers and all essential oils, my first wholesale account was a health food store who asked if I could dupe Victoria Secret Pink Sugar and did I every use Shea or Cocoa butter...they hated my paper wrappers because part of the soap showed and folks didn't want the bars others had touched....I now only make 5 essential oil bars out of 32 and my soap is in commercial plastic bags, I only make 3 Olive oil soaps now.

We can tell you what we have done, tell you what we would do if we started over, but your business is retail and it is driven by your customers...you have no idea where you will be in a year, but most who really go for it are doing volume soaping, and you want to be doing that with a good recipe that cures quickly, and that includes butters. Vicki


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## Trysta

My first soap today was basically a half batch of the walmart recipe, but I used goat milk instead of water (frozen in icecubes and then added 2 regular ice cubes for 'safety's sake) and 2 oz (1 oz each) of 2 kinds of FO (Lavender and Orange, not my fave, but forced to do so by the 'girls of the household'....no, I don't count as one of the girls, really... This stuff smells way to strong and too girly for me!). 

If this batch looks like it's real soap tomorrow, I'm going to make another half batch based on the walmart recipe, but I tweeked it a bit (it will have some olive oil, for example) and stuck that 'new' recipe' in the Lye calculator at thesage.com. So excited to be making soap and I keep on trying to come up with what kind of soap would be cool to make. Without a doubt you guys have already thought all those same thoughts and made most of what I think are my brilliant ideas, but I'm having fun with the creative part already......after one batch!!!


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## MF-Alpines

Trysta said:


> My first soap today was basically a half batch of the walmart recipe, but I used goat milk instead of water (frozen in icecubes and then added 2 regular ice cubes for 'safety's sake) and 2 oz (1 oz each) of 2 kinds of FO (Lavender and Orange, not my fave, but forced to do so by the 'girls of the household'....no, I don't count as one of the girls, really... This stuff smells way to strong and too girly for me!).
> 
> If this batch looks like it's real soap tomorrow, I'm going to make another half batch based on the walmart recipe, but I tweeked it a bit (it will have some olive oil, for example) and stuck that 'new' recipe' in the Lye calculator at thesage.com. So excited to be making soap and I keep on trying to come up with what kind of soap would be cool to make. Without a doubt you guys have already thought all those same thoughts and made most of what I think are my brilliant ideas, but I'm having fun with the creative part already......after one batch!!!


Addicting, isn't it?


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## Guest

I would go to bed at nite and dream of what kind of soap I was going to make the next day... how creative I could get.. etc... have fun... and mostly.. enjoy your soap...


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## Trysta

It did become soap!! :woohoo Miracle!! Can't wait to get it out of the mold tonight and cut it (how?? no clue yet) and to see what kind of bars I can make of this 'block-o-soap'. I used a 'drawer organizer tray' from the Walmart, so it's one big block, I think 4"x10" and probably about an inch thick. Thinking it'll make 8-10 bars?

Definitely trying my other recipe today, too!



MRFBarbara said:


> I would go to bed at nite and dream of what kind of soap I was going to make the next day... how creative I could get.. etc... have fun... and mostly.. enjoy your soap...


Wish I could trade dreams with you. After soaping I was at a bit of a loss how to rinse out/discard my lye container, just rinsed it in the sink, which is probably okay, but I dreamed that I stepped out of the back door and found my entire backyard and the field behind it bubbling and fizzing like it was toxic waste. :shudder I was a bit scared to actually open the door this morning........

Marion


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## Anita Martin

My first batch was one bar and I went to bed with it covered up, fully expecting the house to be on fire by the next morning!

When I woke up I was hyped that not only was my house not burned to the ground, but my soap was actually hard!


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## NubianSoaps.com

Marion it's fine to send all your soaping lye and cleaning of your containers down your sink if you are on city sewer, you do NOT want to be soaping at all into your septic!!!! V


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## Trysta

Oops, but I HAVE a septic tank.... So soap rinsing to be done outside, I guess?? Why is that actually?


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## Dorit

YIKES! :crazy I've made about 10 batches of 3-5 lbs of soap and wiped lye and soap containers with paper towels then rinsed in the sink, and it went straight into the septic tank. Does anyone know how much and what kind of damage I've done, is it reversable? For the future, is it ok to just wipe out everything and not rinse in water?


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## icboers

I'd like to know too, I am on septic and usually rinse my soap pot outside but I rinse my utensils in the sink!


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## cheesemoose

http://www.rid-x.com/?utm_source=msn&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=rid-x&utm_campaign=Brand

Rid-X


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## MF-Alpines

Why would the lye be a problem? I can see how the oils could gum up your system pretty fast, but lye is what was used to clear drains. ??

We use Rid-X here periodically.


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## nappint

Hey Cindy, the lye is a problem because it kills the "good" bacteria your septic system needs to work properly. It's okay to use it occasionally to clear a blocked drain but you don't want to be putting it down the drain all the time.


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## MF-Alpines

nappint said:


> Hey Cindy, the lye is a problem because it kills the "good" bacteria your septic system needs to work properly. It's okay to use it occasionally to clear a blocked drain but you don't want to be putting it down the drain all the time.


Thanks for that, Judy. I wonder how much is too much? I just have the residue left, not much really.

For soap, my bucket is scraped pretty well getting soap into the molds. Then I let it saponify and scrape it out the next day and put that in the trash. The bowl I use to melt my oils, I wipe it out with a paper towel before washing. So I don't think I'm getting too much oil down the drain. At least I hope not.


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## Guest

I am on septic tank and pretty much wipe things out and wash immediately, been doing this for 10 years now with no ill effect on my septic tank... lye too...
Barb


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## jdranch

I think one of the biggest challenges is finding a mold you like. PVC is cheap. I make some of my soaps in them. I think I posted this before but I am not sure. I would start out with small batches while you figure out your recipe and try new scents. http://suppliesbystar.com/guretr.html is a little plastic mold I have used for testing things...


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## Anita Martin

Hmmm, I am on septic and never thought about not washing soap and lye down the sink. I do try and get most of it out with paper towels or wait til it hardens and scrape it...but I never thought about it killing beneficials...after all, we shower every day and all that goes out there too....as does the water out of the washmachine, etc.


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## tlcnubians

We're on an old-fashioned septic system and have been cleaning our soap pans in our kitchen sink for almost 10 years now. The only problem we have is that once every 3-4 years we've had to have the pipes leading from the house to the septic system cleaned of soap that accumulates in them. Then Tom found a product called "Soap Digester" in town and we pour that down the drain periodically. Although I don't make as much soap as Vicki, we do have a fairly large soaping business and I make 30-40 pounds almost every weekend. I also make several gallons of lotion each month and clean up the equipment I use to do that in the kitchen sink as well. Even though I have a separate building for soapmaking, it doesn't have running water in it so all the cleaning is done in the house. Caroline


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## hsmomof4

I wipe out things as much as possible before washing, but I've been washing in the sink in the house. We just had our septic pumped out yesterday (first time since we've been here, 3 years) and I didn't see any major issues. That said, I am putting in a soaping workshop in our garage and I just bought my sink (3 compartment, SS) yesterday and one of the things that I got to go with it is a grease trap, so I am hoping that will help considerably with the issue of oils/grease heading into the septic.


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## Faye Farms

I wipe all my buckets out and utensils with old kitchen cloths. Those get thrown in a pile and laundered a day or two later after everything has saponified. The buckets are then really easy to wash out and very little raw materials go down the drain. When I launder my kitchen cloths all the laundry smells really good too.


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## nappint

I used to work for a septic company that did both new install and repair of conventional and aerobic systems. I do know what I'm talking about when I say that washing fresh soap ie; lye and oils not yet saponified down into your septic system is very bad for it and doing so will significantly reduce the life of your system. Obviously, we all do what we can with the plumbing we have and it sounds like most everyone here is doing the best they can by wiping out buckets before washing etc., just keep in mind septics run best without lots of chemicals or oils being flushed down them and that includes cleaning and health and beauty products. Our system is 41 years old and still running fine (knock on wood), most conventional septic systems only last at the very max 20 years but many only go about 10-15 (because of how they are treated) which sounds like a long time until they quit working. There's nothing worse than when your plumbing quits and it's gonna cost 4-6K or more to fix it and in the meantime you can't flush your toilet, brush your teeth, take a shower, etc., etc., just my two cents...that and five dollars might get you a cup of coffee.


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## nappint

David - you've gotten some really good advice here. If you are going to be trying out a new recipe you might want to make a few batches first in a small box (ramen noodle boxes are the bomb!) lined with plastic until you decide if you like the recipe. This will also give you time to test scents, colors, bar size, etc., before moving on to bigger batches that, if those fail, will cost you a lot of money. You can also easily make wooden molds and line those with plastic, they're cheap and quick!


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## Kalne

Hmmm, I've been rinsing everything in my sink for 5 years with no septic issues.....at least not yet.


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## NubianSoaps.com

Yeah not yet is the point. All our bathtubs, the sink in the soap room the sink in the laundry room and the sink in the kitchen all go to grey water lines, along with the washing machine and dishwasher. A septic system is really very much like a rumen, kill the benefical bacteria and it keeps me in diamonds, my husband is a contractor. After fixing peoples plumbing he runs grey water lines for them and grease traps. At least get your washing machine and soap room sink off your septic...it's nice having a sink in your house that you can wash things down that you don't want in your septic anyway. I use my grey water lines to 'water' fruit trees, in less rural settings you can also have it simply run into a 50 gallon barrel with holes in it....which is the same premise as expensive grease traps, that you simply can clean out every year or twice a year...and if you super frugal you could actually make soap out of this grease! I mean it's is what the major soap companies do! Grease is big business


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## Guest

Sorry Vicki, this is just a big yuck for me... UGH


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## hsmomof4

> which is the same premise as expensive grease traps


Thankfully, mine wasn't expensive. It (and my sink) had been used at a Quizno's that went out of biz in less than a year, and the grease trap had been used about 1 month. I paid $50 for it.


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## Kalne

We're not allowed to have grey water lines here. But I'm sure it's something dh could do 'quietly'. LOL


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## tmfinley

Yep, all my soap stuff goes down the grey water lines!


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## tlcnubians

We have a gray water line for our milkroom and the washing machine in the feed room (used to wash goat towels mostly) drains out to the pasture. Everything else goes into the septic system. 

I would caution those who rinse their soap pots outside to be sure and do so in an area that's not frequented by your pets, livestock, chickens or children. Caroline


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## MF-Alpines

What is a gray water line?


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## tlcnubians

"Gray water" is basically non-toilet water (or in some instances, water from your kitchen sink), but can include drainage from your bathtub, shower or washing machine. Some people just let their gray water drain out of their house into their pasture, or some put in long covered drain lines with holes in them that drain into a gravel bed. We have both in our barn. It may be that different areas of the country have different requirements for gray water systems, so if you're interested, you may need to check with a local plumber or septic system installer. Caroline


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## jimandpj

We have a septic system and put lots and lots and LOTS of soap residue down the drains without trouble so far! Hmmmm....

We pour for an average 5.8 oz bar and we say that they weigh a minimum of 4.5 oz. Most of them are significantly higher, but because my children do so much of the packaging and shipping, I don't trust them to always catch a "light" bar, so I say that it's a minimum of 4.5 to cover my butt.

I believe that you should make the perfect bar of soap for you and then try to sell it. Don't try to figure out what your possible customer might want. Figure out what you like the best and do that. When you start to sell, you'll figure out whether you need to add or stay away from certain ingredients. But the vast majority of customers really don't care. If you believe in your soap 100% that's what's important. If you don't believe in lard, don't use lard. If you don't believe in non-sustainable palm oil, don't use it. If you need an inexpensive bar of soap, use cheaper ingredients. If you feel that you need to use high end ingredients only, because somehow they're better, start with that. Get out there and sell your bar and you'll find where you need to make the changes. 

To try and figure out what your imaginary future customer wants is an exercise in frustration unless you have lots and lots of $$ to run focus group tests.

PJ


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## nightskyfarm

PJ, you are ABSOLUTELY right! Great advice for you, David.


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