# Help needed now (pic added)



## Guest (Apr 8, 2008)

Ms Melissa just called ...says her doe is kidding.....head is out and no feet showing......slime is off and kid is taking light breaths......doe is up and down....walking around like she is not in stress or even trying to push the kid on out.......
I've told her at this stage that the kid really cant be pushed back in or it will suffocate......and have basically told her that she will have to try to pull the kid like it is now, with feet backwards
....entire head is out......


Been going on about 12 minutes now.......

She'll be calling back in a minute....looking for advice......she's at the barn....so not able to get on here right now......


Help.....Whim


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Help needed now*

Lay the doe down, have some sit on her shoulder to keep her down. Or clip her to the fence and go in after those legs. If she can't get her hand beside the neck to fish out the legs, than the doe can't deliver the chest with the legs back like this. With the doe under control, you can put the head back in, pull the legs forward, retrieve the head and bring it out. You just have to do it quickly. Vicki


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2008)

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OK ....she got some help to hold the doe....and has got the first one out.....I'm assuming both feet were backwards since she could never hook on to one of them...........another bubble showing now.......maybe this next one will come on out. says baby is sluggish ...but is still alive.....I told her to clean its mouth out good and rub em up..........

Thanks you guys.......Whim


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2008)

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OK.....it's a buck and it's up walking around now.......that bubble was about softball size....and it busted..........another bubble is starting to appear, and the doe is laying back down some........doe is licking baby....and took a bite of hay too........told Melissa to keep a watch on her for another nose to start showing......maybe we will get some feet to this time. Doe does not appear to sound in stress right now.

Whi


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

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Sounds much better.


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

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I've delivered many kids with front feet back. Slathering all around head with lots of lube!


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2008)

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second bubble the size of a tennis ball.....says she thinks she can see about an inch of white hoof,,,,....no nose showing yet.....doe is getting up and down and laying on opposite sides......progression seems slow to me.....says doe doesn't seem to be pushing much at all......and if anything is acting very much normal in most ways........been about 30 minutes since this second bubble has starting appearing a lot.........how much longer should she wait before going in ??????
I'll be calling her back in about 5 minutes from now.

Whim


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Help needed now*

Give the doe some CMPK or Calcium Gluconate, it will help the labor to progress. If it is a hoof she's seeing, then have her use 2 fingers and go in to see if there's another hoof or nose and try to determine if it's front feet or hind feet.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

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Been too long with no progress go in and get the kids out!! CMPK is a must for this doe IMO now even after she is done but just nursing the kid.


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2008)

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OK.....she's gonna try to go in....will try to update as soon as I know something....


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2008)

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OK.....not good news.....she had no luck pulling the kid.....even had vet on the phone with her trying to talk her through it.....no luck......she's headed to the vet office with the doe......I told her to call me when she got back.......maybe morning before I post an update..

Thanks for yaws help.......I personally was starting to feel helpless with this one.

Whim


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## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

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I sure hope everything is ok.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

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DARN


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2008)

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Sure hope the vet is a good one.  That sure is worrisome news. Hope all turns out okay.


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

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I wish her the best of luck. Healthy baby, healthy doe. 
Anita


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

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Was hoping there was some news.


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## LMonty (Oct 25, 2007)

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me too


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

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Please folks, if you are standing around watching why not just stick your hand in and figure out what is going on? Did I not get my xray goggles that some of you got that you can stand over the doe and see presentation? Pulling a first kid with legs back is asking for a ripped cervic, lubing the head isn't going to do anything. If you can't get your hand in the doe beside the neck, how do you think shoulders will come through without ripping her? And if you have to pull a first kid, go in and retrieve the next kids also. Sometimes I feel like what we write on here just falls on deaf ears and never really makes a difference.

Hope all goes well Whim, nice of you helping her like this. Hopefully the vet isn't 'typical'. Vicki


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2008)

*Re: Help needed now*

Sorry....I tried to get back on here, but my net was down....and was still down this morning for a bit.

Melissa got to the vet, and he tried to pull the kid also with no luck at all.....finally did a c section to save the doe.........It was a dead buck kid. She says that it was a back leg that was showing in the bubble, and the other was straight foward.....rest of baby was in a tangled mess too, and it appears from what was said.....that only a c section was the only option left with this one.
.....and Vicki, there was a slight tear somewhere,,,,but vet did a repair on it she says.

Vet sent doe back home to nurse her live kid, and Melissa says she's got a bunch of meds from the vet to give her for a few days.
That's about all I know from here right now. I'm hoping that Melissa will come on here later and let us have some updates.....and if she does read this, I want to say that I'm so sorry that this first kidding for you did not go well at all....and us being on opposite sides of this state, I felt soooo useless to you.......I have found it so hard to see what's going on by trying to look through a telephone.
I know that you are feeling like just quitting right now.....but don't quit. You, and your family seem to really enjoy your little goats.....and the rewards will always be way ahead of the troubles that you run into.
My first kidding was a rough one too, and that same old doe tried to go to heaven again this year .....but we ain't quittin, and don't plan on it either. All in all, this is more fun than poking at a big ole wasp nest with a long cane pole......well, that ain't really that much fun, but it will sure teach you how to run fast.

If I get an update, I'll try to post it.

Thanks again for all the advice.......and to one exspecially in Tx....ole Rod is a lucky man.

Whim


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

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Thanks for the update glad the vet saved that doe.


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## Keeperofmany (Oct 27, 2007)

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Yes, Thanks Whimm for the update. I am so sorry she had to go through that and I too hope she doesn't give up. Glad the doe is ok.

Wendy


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## MsMelissa (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: Help needed now*

Yesterday was definitely not a good day here. I'm certainly aware of how little I know about this goat thing and humbled that any of them survive. Margi and buckling survived the night. He is jumping around, nursing and pooping and peeing. She is standing up and has drank a good bit of water and eaten some this am.

The mobile vet we use has me giving her the following meds for 3 days. He said if she makes it for 3 days we'd reevaluate the meds then. Oxytocin 1ml Sq 4x/day for 2 days; Naxcel 1ml sq 2x/day for 3days; Baytril 3ml sq one time in 2 days; and Banamine 2ml sq 2-3x/day for 3 days. He said to keep her eating and drinking and the kid nursing as much as possible.

There are no goat vets here and this vet is really more of a cow vet. He lives about 1 1/2 hours away but he met us halfway last night at a gas station. He tried pulling the dead kid(large buck) but tore the uterus in the process (which is what I was afraid I would do). At this point, he said our only options were to open her up, remove kid and suture uterus or to put her down. I chose to try to save her. He opened her up on the back of our pickup in the carwash bay of the station. Only local anesthesia because he said her chances would be slimmer if put completely under. I gloved up and held back bowel, swabbed blood with gauze and held flashlight while he sutured. I was really not prepared for this. My husband held her head and legs but she was really quite by this time.

A hugh thank you to Whim and Ann for trying to coach me over the phone. :thankyou2 Also thanks to those on this forum for your thoughts. I couldn't get to the Internet so Whim was acting on my behalf. This doe is one of his babies. I know you guys love Margi too and I'm so sorry I couldn't do better for her. For those of you that have many years of knowledge about goats thanks so much for sharing with us newbies! Remember that it takes years to "store up" all that knowledge. I've been reading the forum and everything I can but when you get in a situation it is not so easy to remember all you've read. Experience is a hard teacher.

Anything else I should do for my girl? Not ready to give up Whim. Just very sad. :sniffle

Melissa


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2008)

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Let these gal's look over your meds list...as they may have better advice than I do......and please keep posting updates on her.

I'm so sad too....Margi is one of my lap baby's that was hard to part with here........what a joy to have been able to have raised such a darling. She would leave her momma at 2 days old, and follow me around in the yard like a puppy wanting some attention. I'm really shocked that she had this much trouble. She is a long bodied gal, and most of them type can just spit 'em out.

I know that you are gonna do all you can....and there is absolutely not lack in having faith on my end, but if things turn for the worst here....my warranty (this time) has been extended on Margi . I will give you another doe free of charge. Your freindship is most important to me and my family.....and I ain't lettin you get turn off to goating this easy.

You just do your best....that's all any of us can do.

Whim


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

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Hey we all have these problems sometimes first ones are always the hardest. Keep up the good work with her. as far as meds and stuff pm Vicki or Kaye and get your answers.


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2008)

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I'm glad the doe made it. It makes me sad that the little buck didn't. Glad she has one live one. Nice! Dwell on that little miracle and like Whim said....Don't quit!

-Kim


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

*Re: Help needed now*

The meds. he's giving is what I would use under these circumstances. 
Keep in mind that the doses he's giving for banamine is going to make her a little loopy acting. But she needs it for the uterine tear. It's a smooth muscle relaxer, so it doesn't continue to spasm and for the pain, so she doesn't go shocky.

He's right on the 3 days...you will know if she's going to set up infection or have complications. Keep up with her temp.(even with the banamine) you will know if she spikes a fever. At least he knew not to put her under...sounds like a good vet.

Here's hoping for the best for her.
Kaye


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## Becky-DixieDoesAlpines (Oct 26, 2007)

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Hope things turn out well for you. Whim you are a good man


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## MsMelissa (Feb 1, 2008)

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Update on Margi. She's still eating and drinking pretty well. This am when I went to barn she has started having some diarrhea. Not much yet - I saw 3 small piles. Is this due to antibiotics? Should I do anything yet?

Thanks so much for the offer Whim. I'm still not willing to give up on Margi yet! But you and Ann are great friends and mentors in this goat stuff (even if you are across the state from us)

Melissa


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

*Re: Help needed now*

I would give her probios and watch closely for dehydration but nope wouldn't put anything else right now in her system continue what your doing. So glad to hear she is still up and eating and drinking tis a good sign I would think.


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## MsMelissa (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: Help needed now*

Thanks Sondra,

Vet called right before I read your post and said same thing - start on Probios and as long as she is still eating and drinking not to worry too much about small amounts of diarrea. Being new at this I don't want to miss something critical though.

Melissa


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

*Re: Help needed now*

I have to giggle, because he was thinking same as me...she's still alive 24 hrs. later...she may just make it! A uterine tear is a VERY serious condition. With what he did, surgery FAST, being a huge + in the does favor.

Just keep a really close eye on this girl's temp., attitude-though altered some by the banamine, and that she keeps eating and drinking.

Still hoping for the best for her.
Kaye


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Help needed now*

Did the doe get a 100 day pregnancy worming? The stress of all this and worms in alabama...also cocci. I would do a fecal on the material. A doe who is ill or a doe like this would not only have been wormed but would be on a sulfa for bacterial infections/pnemonia and cocci as routine here. They are that opportunistic on stressed stock. Vicki


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## LMonty (Oct 25, 2007)

*Re: Help needed now*

Edumacate me, please-why so much oxytocin? I know you want to tighten things down a bit to decrease bleeding, but 3-4 x a day for several days? Isnt that going to cause uterine muscle spasms? I'm not criticising, I really don't understand and want to learn why. Theres obviously a good reason for it.

Melissa I am so impressed that you assisted at a carwash C-section! I think theres a lot of people out there that would have freaked out over this...and you didnt. Doubly impressive for a self-confessed newbie that hasnt had much time to get used this kinda thing yet.

You did awesome. Instead of feeling guilty, you should be proud of how hard you fought and the lengths you went to to save this doe! Shes lucky to have you as a goat mom.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Help needed now*

At no other time would these amounts of drugs be used...vet scripts. It's about keeping that uterus toned tight, so it doesn't bleed out at the rip, and to keep her slightly sedated with the banamine so she has no urge to push. Smaller amounts of oxytocin given daily would cause the contractions you want for her to expell the placenta, this amount of oxytocin is masking all this. Banamine is keeping pain down to a minimum and is key in the success of this with goats, they do poorly with pain and will give up and die.

You are weighing on the other hand heavily that her liver will not be effected by the amounts of these drugs especially the banamine, but she can't get through a uterine tear without this. Why supportive drugs should be given for cocci and worms and an anitibiotic is not only for the possible infection of the tear and the cleanliness of the operation, but because she will die of dehydration, pnemonia, blood loss from cocci and worms just as readily as she will from the section in the south. Vicki


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## Pairaka (Jan 12, 2008)

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> Banamine is keeping pain down to a minimum and is key in the success of this with goats, they do poorly with pain and will give up and die.


Interesting. My first kidding was a butt-first breech buck kid who was huge and I couldn't get it turned around and ended up taking the doe to a local vet (aka panic mode) for a C-section (small animal clinic but they said they'd take her if she was under 100 lbs (we just squeaked in). He performed the C-section under general anesthesia and sent her home with NO drugs: No oxytocin, no banamine, no antibiotics. And I didn't know about any of this stuff back then. Just told me to keep her propped up to keep her from bloating. (He may have given her a shot of antibiotic at the clinic before he sent her home, but he certainly didn't give *me* any to give her.) And I'd been up past my elbow in her trying to get that kid turned around for over an hour before the first vet I called managed to find a vet that would do the C-section.

That was two years ago. She's currently my herd babysitter. She misses her two kids that died, and even though she still has her little buckling, two of the kids that are romping around playing with him are her grandkids and her daughters are more than willing to let Mom watch over their babies while they fight for their feed since she gets her fill while I'm milking her (and she certainly shovels in the alfalfa pellets while she doesn't have any competition for them). 

I'm extremely impressed that this vet did a C-section not only in the field, but at night and in a place as open and public as a gas station/car wash. No vets around here (that I've found, at least) will even do C-sections in the field any more. I'm lucky enough to have a large animal vet who does farm visits in the area, but even she won't do C-sections; she sends everyone to the Vet School at UT.

Good luck with your doe and kid. I hope she makes it.


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: Help needed now*

Vicki....I'll try to answer a couple of the questions.....and Melissa can correct them if I'm wrong.

This doe was wormed (cydectin) the last time, just before being bred last Fall. Her last round of cocci meds were given right before that final pre-breeding worming also.

I really don't know what to contribute the low worm counts here to this past few months...it probably has something to do with the severe drought that we have had. My doe's were not wormed either during pregnancy, as the egg counts didn't merit giving wormer in my opinion. I doubt that Melissa had any different situation over there with the same weather, and the fact that almost no goats had been pooping on that property in many years. She only had the one buck a very short time before she got Margi from me.

Now with that said....we are getting wetter again and have been for a couple months....and egg counts here are starting to come up a bit. I know that I've had to do a little touch up worming already, and am starting to watch things closer. It's just so nice to be able to gather some poop from an animal, and go see where they stand worm wise. It takes a bunch of guess work out of the picture.

Melissa told me that she had scheduled the vet to come by about a month ago to run some fecals on her goats...but he had not shown up .

Whim


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

*Re: Help needed now*

What Vicki is saying here Whim is that now with all this trama worming an cocci is now especially important post freshening.


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## MsMelissa (Feb 1, 2008)

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Here's an update. Temp 103.4, but she had not had Banamine since 10pm last night. Eating very well (alfalfa, hay, and some Purina Goat chow (also some Wheat grass that I brought her) She is confined to barn per vet's instructions but goes to door and looks out. Neighbors are cutting timber on that side and she's very curious about all that. Still some diarrhea, started Probios yesterday and will continue for how long? Only drank about 8-12 oz during night.. will watch today. Have LR available if needed. Gave last dose of Bytril (3cc) this am and still have one dose of Naxcel for tonight. Vet is considering dropping the Naxcel but keeping her on Bytril for a few more days. He'll have to ship it to me this am and I should get tomorrow. What wormer would you think I should use?
What for cocci? Vet may have something he could ship with antibiotics.

Not much is available here, Safeguard and pellet type wormer is all that our local places have.

Whim, I am coming your way to get a Nuc of Honeybees this weekend. If I get some poop could you let me use your scope to see what we have? You'll actually have to tell me what I'm seeing... :?

I'm beginning to feel a "little" hopeful that she might make it. I'm almost afraid to even say that. If she does survive, what about breeding her in the future. When we were trying to decide whether to C-section or put her down, I asked vet about this and he said that if she survived he thought she would be able to have more babies. Has anyone had this situation and been able to successfully breed doe?

Thanks for all the help and encouragement

Melissa


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2008)

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Yes, and I absolutely agree with her....just not real sure of any drug interactions that may occur with all the meds that she's giving now. In this doe's already weakened state from all this other stuff, I'm not sure how much more "meds" that her body can filter through at this particular time.

My approach has been this for several years, and I basically learned this from a vet. If an animal is sick from worms, then worming is in order........but if it is sick from other than worms, then giving them wormer could actually put added stress on the animal that the animal doesn't need at that point in time, and may worsen the situation.
Now with that said, let me say this.......this vet had/has been so aggravated with folks around here that believed every illness that comes around has something to do with worms. Many were treating parvo scours with wormer.... got a snotty nose,,,,give 'em some wormer......arthritis,,,,give 'em some wormer.....and that list goes on and on.

I know what Vicki is saying about the unneeded stress of having worms/cocci to deal with too right now.....just ain't real sure that it should be considered as a crisis situation to deal with, until this doe recovers just a bit from all this other trauma. ........but hey, she done been there and done this before, and I haven't......so who am I to question her on this. It's hard to beat experience.

Whim


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## MsMelissa (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: Help needed now*

Also, little boy is doing great. Nursing frequently and running around everywhere. Even saw him chewing on some hay. :biggrinTook picture of him standing in the crimson clover and would post if I knew how. Still haven't named him, though


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2008)

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Glad to see your update...........you come up, and I'll do everything possible to help you. 
...and I'll see if I can post the pic for you.......dummy on the keyboard over here you know.

Whim


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

*Re: Help needed now*

OK your missing the whole point here Whim EVERY GOAT bar NONE have to be wormed the day or two after freshening as this is when they raise their ugly heads so YES she has to be wormed now not later and not after taking a fecal Worm her with cydectin or ivormec and then 10 days later with valbazen after that then do your fecals and stay on top of it. 
Cocci treat with either corid which the vet probably has or demetox 40% Albon etc. and treat her even on the meds she is on as this is a must do especially in her situation


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## pokyone42 (Oct 26, 2007)

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Sounds like a good vet to me! I am sorry you have had such a rough time, but good for you! You did GREAT! Good luck with your doe and her baby boy!


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2008)

Here's the boy ! Sorry it took so long....we've been ducking storms all afternoon


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2008)

Oh my! That is one VERY cute kid! I'm at a loss for words. Very special he is. Congrats! Thanks for sharing the pic.

-Kim


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## Pairaka (Jan 12, 2008)

Sondra said:


> OK your missing the whole point here Whim EVERY GOAT bar NONE have to be wormed the day or two after freshening as this is when they raise their ugly heads so YES she has to be wormed now not later and not after taking a fecal Worm her with cydectin or ivormec and then 10 days later with valbazen after that then do your fecals and stay on top of it.
> Cocci treat with either corid which the vet probably has or demetox 40% Albon etc. and treat her even on the meds she is on as this is a must do especially in her situation


I may get a big round of boos and/or smacked for this, but...

The whole "worm the day after freshening" was explained to me as a management practice to kill and prevent the spread of worms from doe to her kids (the same would apply to cocci), not necessarily because worms suddenly cause a problem at or after kidding. It's just that it's a perfect time for the lifecycle of the worms to be perpetuated: Mom poops; kid nibbles poop and ingests eggs/larvae; worm life cycle starts all over again. And as such, a good time to stop said life cycle.

And it will also depend on your management system. Here, I don't have a problem with worms or cocci; to the point that I don't even have to practice or use cocci prevention. But my goats aren't on pasture (yet). When they become a problem, I will start managing for them.

I would think that, like Whim says, give the doe time to recover a little first, then worm her and worry about cocci. But then again, it would depend on whether or not they've been on pasture. Her system has been pretty stressed already; is there really any reason not to wait a day or two before worming her?

Of course, it's probably moot by now...

-- Wendy


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

During the winter blood sucking HC worms are dormant it's called arrested. The pastures are dead and the worm eggs and larve live under the top layer of soil, and in the bedding and are arrested in the goat. Arrested in your goat warm weather worms do not lay eggs, so no HC eggs are seen on fecal, you can pick up some cool weather worm eggs on fecal, that do not suck blood but eat your does condition. When a doe goes into labor it sends hormones through the doe that signals the larve to grow, to multiply quickly into adult worms that suck blood. The doe grazes fresh new short pasture that has millions of eggs and larve clinging to the short cropped grass. During times of stress, like kidding, moving to a new home, illness (so this doe talked about on this thread has two of the stresses) a doe can move from zero eggs on fecal the several hundred in 12 hours. Why a profilactic worming is done the day they kid. And why does who are ill or down are put on profilactic sulfa's for bacterial pnemonia and cocci routinely.

Adult worms suck blood, they do not lay eggs until it warms up, so a clear fecal is meaningless.

So in reality your idea of worming the doe the day she kids for the kids benefit isn't true. Since most worms, larve and eggs are pooped out alive, this would send even more parasites into the soil to infect the kids, not less.

Vicki


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## Oregonian Chick (Oct 26, 2007)

I am glad everything turned out ok. I just wanted to say I have delivered many kids with the legs back like that. They where in average about 8lbers if they had been like a 11lber I would have done it different but I just wanted to say that I have delivered kids that way with no problems with the doe or kid.

Glad the doe is doing ok!

Justine


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2008)

""""OK your missing the whole point here Whim EVERY GOAT bar NONE have to be wormed the day or two after freshening as this is when they raise their ugly heads so YES she has to be wormed now not later ....Sondra"""""
No, I'm not missing the point at all,,,,,,like I said above, I completely agree with Vicki with worming post kidded doe's. She is absolutely correct. ....What I'm saying is this.....if a post kidded doe is possibly dieing from tetanus, ketosis, hypocalcemia, infections due to surgery, rumen malfunctions due to meds, liver shut down due to meds, etc. etc. ,.....then worming to me at this critical point in time, becomes one of the lesser of my concerns. .....if this doe were to not make it through this present trauma, I can almost assure you that the cause of death would not be listed as "due to not immediately worming post kidding, she was not able to survive this surgery".

Sorry that we are straying a bit on this thread.....but the most important thing about this forum is it is a learning tool for all of us......so in the spirit of discusion and learning, and not argument.....this is good.
I always appreciate Vicki's comments on threads like this, even when it disagrees with me......I learn so much from her...and we all can learn more from her as she makes post like this.

Whim


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## Guest (Apr 13, 2008)

"""""When we were trying to decide whether to C-section or put her down, I asked vet about this and he said that if she survived he thought she would be able to have more babies. Has anyone had this situation and been able to successfully breed doe? Melissa """'


Melissa. I spent a great deal of time this afternoon walking around with my old Vet buddy on his farm. We actually had time to talk about lots of stuff before he had to go out on an emergency call. I posed the question to him that you have ask above, and this is about what he said. 

If this were my doe, and I bought her for milking, breeding, then he would certainly breed her again. He said that if she was only gonna serve you as a pet, then he would not. He basically said that it sounded like to him that this happening was not from genetic problems, diet problems, etc.........and if this was just some sort of mechanical problem in kidding, that it may very well not ever happen again with her........with that said, He also said "you just don't really ever know".
He didn't seem too concerned about her having had a c-section (if done properly) and it being linked to any problems in an upcoming breeding. He did seem to suggest that the risk could be a little higher, but whatever amount of risk that it would be, would be worth taking to him. But you just keep in mind that he is speaking as if she were his doe.....and also keep in mind that he has the expertise to perform all sorts of stuff, and has access to all the meds that he wants to do it with at any time. He said when he used to do large animals, that many that he had done c-sections on, never had another minutes problem birthing from then on.

I would seek out others opinions on this also, to where you can make your decision to breed her or not, based on the best information and calculations available to you.

Since my plans here are for my goats to be workers first, and pets as a side benefit......she would be re-bred this Fall if she were mine, but only if she were in good health by then.

Hope she's doing better today, Whim


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Many many does that have c-sections have gone on and had other kids but some also have had to have c-sections again. Usually in a case like this they have exact breeding dates and lute 4 or 5 days prior to freshening date so babies don't get huge. Now that is just what I have heard I have no first hand experience.


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## Pairaka (Jan 12, 2008)

> """""When we were trying to decide whether to C-section or put her down, I asked vet about this and he said that if she survived he thought she would be able to have more babies. Has anyone had this situation and been able to successfully breed doe? Melissa """'


As stated earlier in this thread, I have a doe that required an emergency C-section to deliver a true breech kid (tail first, 12 lb buckling). She has since kidded twice here, no problems, both times were all normal deliveries, with all kids presented properly.

When I was in college and taking repro phys classes, this question was asked may times (usually concerning cattle). The answer was usually that the female went on to carry many normal pregnancies to term with no problems.

There are always exceptions, however.

-- Wendy


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## MsMelissa (Feb 1, 2008)

Update, Margi seems to be doing great. Eating, drinking and pooping normally. Normal temps. Incision line looks good. Kid nursing well. Vet is continuing her on Baytril for a couple more doses, but no more Banamine, etc.

Glad to see that several of you have kidded successfully after a C-section! We will probably plan to breed Margi in Fall if she is doing well. 

Thanks again for all your thoughts.

Melissa


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2008)

Whew ! I've been sweating this one all weekend. I wasn't even sure that those blame storms didn't get to close to you over there.......
I'm just tickled pink that Margi and buckling are doing so well.......she obviously has her granddam's grit in her. Maybe in a few more weeks, you can start filling up your milk bucket with some of that white gold. 
.....Durn FF teats......I'm building me a robot to milk mine......I'm hoping to have it up and running by next week........you'll have to stop in and see it the next time you get over this way.

BTW......I picked up some extra corid this weekend......remind me to let you have some the first chance that you can get up this way.

Please keep updating this thread, at least for a couple or 3 more days....

:whew , Whim


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## MsMelissa (Feb 1, 2008)

Storms did come my way..but we only had golf ball hail and no tornado touch downs this time... 

Whim, whenever you hear James Spann (our state weather guru) say "tornadoes in Samantha or north Tuscaloosa county", then I'm holed up somewhere with my head covered! This Friday was 6th time we've had to duck and cover since Jan. Temp 89 degrees and tornadoes Friday... now today possible snow flurries & freeze warnings! What is with the weather? :crazy

I'll try to get up soon to see your contraption...I've got to learn how to manually milk first...sounds like it is a challenge with these little gals

Melissa


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2008)

MsMelissa said:


> I'll try to get up soon to see your contraption...I've got to learn how to manually milk first...sounds like it is a challenge with these little gals
> 
> Melissa


Oh it is. I only have one to milk but she is a FF and small-sized teats. Can't get my hand around them so have to use my fingers and boy does my hand sure cramp up. Hope my hand gets used to it! Ouch. I'm glad she's not producing a whole lot yet. I'd really be in trouble. :lol Take care and enjoy. I'm really glad dam and buckling are doing so well. I am very pleased. Thanks for sharing the updates. They are very encouraging.

-Kim


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## MsMelissa (Feb 1, 2008)

Thanks Kim,,
I see you have Alpines, I'm guessing that they're teats are a little larger than Nigerians? How much milk are you getting from your FF?

Melissa


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2008)

Melissa - I am not milking her down all the way because I have her buckling, soon to be wether, on her. The amount I am getting is VERY small. He is only 6 days old today and growing well so I HOPE he gets to her before I do because I am very impressed with the shape of her udder and attachment but it is still quite small and not producing hardly anything. Out of the one side that seems tight when I milk her I MIGHT be getting a cup or cup and a half. Hope this is normal. Maybe I'll post my question about it on a different post. 

As far as Alpine's teats bigger than Nigerians I can only assume so, because they are bigger animals. My only Nigerian has not freshened yet. I HOPE she isn't even preg cause she is VERY small. We'll see.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Thanks for the update glad she is doing well.


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## pokyone42 (Oct 26, 2007)

REALLY good news for your girl, AND her little guy! Congrats again!


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