# Udder Capacity and strutted udders



## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Is their anything you can do to help improve udder capacity? Toggy's udder is getting bigger.. but just wondering how best to manage it and if I can help her out better? 

She is a second freshener and about 1 month fresh. At first 2.5 lbs would have her little udder rock hard. I've been keeping her babies off overnight both to help stretch her udder and so I can have milk in the morning. I have been letting her go 11 hrs but I'm going to cut that back to 10 now because it's like milking a block of wood and she drips or squirts milk sometimes. This morning I went down there while the water was on to boil to santize the milk bucket to go ahead and give them their pellets and see how everyone was doing (I have 4 due this week). I stepped into the pen and she started streaming milk out of one teat. So I hurried up and got the milking stuff ready and got out there and she had about 4.25 lbs in her udder. So the udder is stretching of course, but as it does it just keeps filling up just as tight as ever. I'm glad she's milking well but just don't want anything bad to happen to her udder! 

Any thoughts? How bad is it for her udder to get that full? Can it ruin her orifices? I'll see how she does with just 10 hrs, but obviously I want her to be able to hold 12 hrs of milk eventually.


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

Hi Ashley,
Those first freshning udders can be a nightmare to milk when they get full. The teats are often small and lack structure to hold onto without having to milk the bag(not a good practice)."Stretching the udder" really won't help production or capacity. As her udder matures, it will gradually expand into a larger shape, her teats will hopefully enlarge and enlongate, and her milk will increase with time. Keeping the babies off of her at night won't increase production, but will increase the milk you are able to express at the morning milking. 

You could try a shorter period of time at night without babies, like you were saying, to not allow her to get so full between milkings. I've had to milk does three times a day, like this year after quads, because I was concerned about the doe getting so very overfull. I was bottlefeeding so the option of leaving the kids on longer wasnt' there...but last year I had a doe that I pulled kids off of, then put them back on mom because she got soooo full, and her teats at that time were very, very short and small. I couldn't do anything with them. So to keep her from blowing teats and me blowing my mind, I put the kids back on for a few weeks and then gradually weaned them onto a bottle in the same pen with mom. (So no stress)

Your doe will gradually increase production, and the best way of doing that would be to leave the kids on so they can nurse frequently and stimulate milk production....you can still milk her twice a day if there is any milk in the udder. My does with kids always, always, have to be milked twice a day...

Just my 2 cents.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Thanks for the info. She is a second freshener. Her teats are fine, they were fine when she was FF even. I will just shorten her overnight to 10 hrs and hopefully her udder will eventually catch up.


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## mill-valley (Feb 22, 2008)

I milk at odd times of the day because I have to commute to the barn with two human children....I milk at 16 and 8 hours apart. So, my does are generally very full in the morning. I have yet to have one that has ruined her orifices. Here, leakers are goners. I've had two that couldn't hold milk past 10 hours and they started streaming...I sold them. My remaining does are heavy milkers, but they don't leak. Princess will milk out around 10 lbs in the morning (4th freshener) and Kati about 5 lbs (FF). I will say thank goodness for a machine for Kati...I know what you mean by a block of wood!

My point being....her leaking is probably not because she's been ruined by a full udder...it's a fault. Something her kids may or may not have...I find it a real pain so I don't keep goats with leaky teats. Way too much chance of spreading/picking up diseases like CAE and staph.


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

I missed her being a second freshner...I must be blind. "2.5 lbs would have her little udder rock hard" and "stretching her udder" registered in my mind as FF. Sorry about that. 

Well, yes some does do leak. I have a doe that leaks. The biggest udder in my herd...on the smallest doe in the herd. This doe only leaks at milking time, when she sees me coming out to milk, or if it's the time she knows I'm coming. It's her let-down reflex, not a blown teat. The same thing happened to me when I was breastfeeding. I'd be in a store and hear a baby cry, or think about the baby, and my milk would let down. Your doe may be thinking about nursing those kids and her milk starts to stream. 

Hopefully, that will get better, but being a second freshner, her udder may not change all that much after the first month or two of lactation.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Yea, I don't think she leaks until I'm there to milk. Usually it's when she gets up on the stand, and normally after I start brushing her off, or after I squirt that first squirt out to clear the canal. Yesterday was the first day she did that in the pen just when I came in there in the morning. 

She is about 1 months fresh so I hope she will stretch a little more.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

one side note- you are not affecting 'orifices' with strutting the udder. It is the sphincter that gives way which is between the udder reservoir floor and the teat. Take care in extended strut times you are inviting disease and you are stressing the physical structure way beyond what it is designed to tolerate. 
Lee


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## Ozark Lady (Mar 21, 2010)

I breast fed my children. As a first freshener, I got engorged and had to stand in a hot shower to get the milk to come out. This was in addition to nursing, because he couldn't get any milk out, I was too full. (So I use hot towels and lots of warm water on engorged goats)

As a second freshener, I did great- milk dropped along with labor, and first feeding and every one afterward worked great. No issues as long as I fed on time.

As a third freshener, I was 6 months pg. A lady brought a baby into the store, it gave that hungry breast baby yell. And my milk dropped instantly, and I had to shower for the last 3 months of pregnancy to get milk off of me, and keep breasts emptied.
I nursed normally again, once child was born. (I have had does do this too, one doe kids and they all get milk at the first cry. I don't truly milk a pregnant doe, I just watch and relieve pressure as needed.) And both me and the early goats still switched to colostrum at freshening time.

As a fourth freshener, my production was low, due to age and trauma, so I culled me, and put the baby on goat milk! I was 34 at this birth, so time to pack it up anyhow. I did nurse for 6 weeks anyhow for the health benefits to the child, even with low production, so after nursing it was finish up with bottle. And so I retired from birthing and nursing but, do make a great grandma! ha ha

But, it was always an issue, I would put child to one breast and they both let down at the same time. So, I fed on one side, and held a bottle under the other side, this worked great, I had a bottle for when I wasn't handy, and no breast pump needed.
I would fill up at feeding time, but if no baby, no let down, then the moment of feeding, just sitting down with the baby started the flow! If I fed just a bit early, I didn't have quite the same stream going. But 10 minutes late and it was really a river.

Why do I relate this? Well, I think mammals lactating, are well, mammals lactating. And I sympathize and understand what the goats are feeling. Except, I never hit my udder with my legs, or stepped on it! ha ha In fact, I was never guilty of even being busty except while lactating.

Did you notice? 10 minutes late feeding was a river for me. I would be sure to milk the doe early, first or perhaps a bit sooner to see if this is the case with her. For her, seeing you may be the trigger, like sitting down with the baby was for me.


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## mill-valley (Feb 22, 2008)

I can identify MaryAnn....having breastfed two I've had the same experiences. All I can say is....if I was a goat in my herd, I would cull me :lol.

There are different levels of what you can tolerate. If you don't mind her leaking a bit, than it doesn't really matter. *I* hated it so it was a big fault in my herd. Even with 10 lbs of milk in her udder, my best doe does not leak...drip or stream...even when her milk is let down. That's what my ideal is. What with still getting CAE out of my herd....just not something I'm going to deal with having puddles on the floor of the barn.


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