# Milking Machine Newbie



## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Okay, I will start by saying I have never used a milking machine in my life, I am just sort of jumping in feet first! LOL! Anyway, my neighbor had a vacuum pump and 2 surge bucket milkers complete with lids and pulsators just sitting around, so he decided to sell it all, for $75, lucky me when I happened upon them. There are also about a bazillion extra shells in one of the surge buckets. Again, lucky me, I ran into a guy at a local shop (gosh, so many good things have happened to me in that little shop, I should go there more often!), whose job it is to put these things together, only he does it for large dairies usually, so not these dinky bucket milkers, though he has done plenty in the past (he has a bunch of surge buckets, delaval buckets, and random parts lying around in his shop, which he is planning to put together and sell). Anyway, I brought my ancient stuff over for him to check out. After much messing with wiring, trying every configuration of 110v and 220v, we almost thought that the motor was no good, but then we tried a new capacitor, and voila, It's ALIVE! Next, he cleaned all the ton of gunk out with diesel fuel, boy was that nasty! He said it was all because of the previous owners letting the bucket overfill with milk and it getting into the machine...duly noted! He sold me a GALLON of the oil that I need for the machine for $5 because he has 2 and will never use that much...he said that was probably a lifetime supply. The last step was checking and oiling the pulsators...all worked well there!

If you've made it this far through my excitement, congrats, lol. For all that and the parts and oil, he charged $65 total, and so I have a working machine, lifetime supply of oil, 2 surge buckets with lids and pulsators, and bunches of shells for $140. Not bad, I don't think.

I am probably going to sell one of the buckets with lid and pulsator and all the excess shells. There are a bunch of brass shells, which this guy seemed to think were valuable, because they are rare. I have searched and searched and cannot come up with a value for these, so they must be. Anybody have any ideas? I can already see that the surge bucket is going to be a P.I.T.A. to clean, compared to a delaval bucket. Can I use a surge bucket lid on a delaval bucket? Where is a good place to get a used (less expensive) delaval bucket in good shape? 

The next step is getting the proper tubing and inflations for goats. I can do two goats on one surge bucket, yes? My motor is only 1/2 hp, and the pressure gauge reads 12-13 lbs of pressure. Is that enough for two goats? The guy that fixed my machine was telling me that goats are milked at a much higher pulse rate than cows, cows being around 60 per minute, and goats 90+, but I was reading here that goats are milked at 60; so which is it? I would like to get some of the clear shells I think, so I can see what is going on better. Any recommendations for the rest of the stuff I need? I might just go to a local dairy store, because this stuff is so complicated to me when I read it, but when someone shows me, it seems so much simpler!


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Also, is there a website or anything on milk machine 101, as far as maintenance, etc. goes? What type of maintenance to I need to do on this thing to keep it running smoothly? What is the procedure when I'm actually using it on goats?

Btw, my vacuum pump was probably built in the '40s!!! They sure build it to last!


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## Rambar Ranch (Oct 25, 2007)

Congratulations on such a good find. As far as your pulsations rate, he has it backwards, cows are higher than goats. You milk goats usually at 50:50 or 60:40 no higher. Your 12-13 lbs pressure is perfect for goats. Whether it can do 2 buckets or 1 bucket really depends more on the motor and cfm it can pull than anything else. If you run 2 buckets and it holds pressure stead at that 12-13 lbs than your perfectly fine. I find running 1 bucket with 2 goats is enough of a speed for 1 person, lol.

My vacuum pump I have is about as old as yours. It's one of the big blue surge's, but I love it. Theres not much maintenance to them at all, thats why they last so long. About the only thing I do to mine is change the oil in it once a year, and thats probable overkill, for what little I use it.

I love this website for parts for my milker its: www.partsdeptonline.com
Their very knowledgeable about anything you may need and can walk you through your purchases, as you'll need to buy new inflations and hoses to go with your find.

Good luck with your machine.

Ray


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

Also, wether you can milk two goats/pail depends on the lid: see if there are double connections so you can attach hoses for two milking claws. Most cow-pails are not set up for double units, so you may want to keep both pails. I have two pails for that reason: they are 'old cow pails' and I connect one unit/pail. I bought Vanguard goat claws. They are not cheap (around $180 per complete unit at Hamby Dairy Supply, I think either Hoegger or Caprine sells them, too), but they are nice and light, come with clear shells and silicone inflations and just work very well. I've had them for years and just this week had to order new inflations and two new valves for the very first time, so they are very good quality.

I am not 100% sure a DeLaval lid will fit on a surge bucket. It has to do with the size of the opening. I have two different pails and one lid fits perfectly, while the other one is a bit iffy. Making it work, though, as you will learn, too, working with old equipment. It's so worth it, because it saves a HUGE amount of money, and you learn to trouble shoot your system in no time flat, so you get to understand it perfectly! 

Good luck!


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## Sharpgoat (Feb 7, 2008)

Here is Christine web page I think it will give you some of the info you need. Fran http://www.freewebs.com/cottoneyeddoes/buildingyourownmilker.htm


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## Goat Town (Nov 20, 2010)

Nancy,
If what you have is the old Surge belly milker you can milk two goats at once with it. You should see if there's a check valve in the lid under the pulsator. The check valve might help keep moisture or milk out of the vacuum lines. Those old brass shells are useless to anyone but a collector. You might as well get clear shells, silicon inflations, silicon milk lines, and clear vinyl vacuum lines now rather than upgrade them later.


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## Rambar Ranch (Oct 25, 2007)

The surge lids will fit on a delaval bucket but they won't stay put until their under pressure. You can do 2 goats on 1 surge bucket easily by just splitting the hoses. Put a hose on each of the inlets on the bucket lid, use 2 for 1 goat and 2 for the other one. If your pulsaters are 4 ports then do the same with them, if their the 2 port type then you just need to buy a splitter that you can put in near the inflations. I think that its much easier to milk 2 goats off 1 bucket than it is to do 1 off each bucket, as in it saves clean up time.

If you go to a delaval bucket they sell lids for them with 2 inlet ports directly that are made specifically for milking 2 goats at a time. Their not terrible expensive I believe around $20 at the site I mentioned earlier.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Thanks for the link, Frances, I have been to that site before, but now that I've actually messed with all these parts, it actually makes sense. I will see if there is a check valve. My lids and pulsators are the same as what Christine has pictured there. Do the surge 4-port type of pulsators fit on the delaval bucket lids as well?

What do you mean by milking at 60:40? I saw this on another thread, and it said 60 squeezes, 40 relaxations. I don't understand how the number of squeezes and relaxes can be different?

Do I just keep the oil in the glass bottle full?

What parts need to be checked or replaced sometimes?

When I'm cleaning it, do I need to take of the gasket and clean it and under it?

I know that others have posted the procedure here for what to do when actually using it on goats, rinsing in between goats, daily cleaning of the machine, etc. Can someone link me to that? Or is there something in GK101 about it?


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## Rambar Ranch (Oct 25, 2007)

A surge lid is 2 types. Theres an A lid and a C lid, with the A lid being an older type. The older type has a vacuum pin it it that is not removable, the C type lid has a pin that is remove and will fall out when you clean. This is an easy way to tell them apart. If you move onto an interpulse pulsator the adaptors will NOT fit onto a type A lid only the type C, just so you know.

All surge pulsators whether 2 port or 4 port are the same attachements. When attached to surge lid both will fit on the lid. If you try to put a surge pulsator on a delaval lid you need to buy an adaptor piece, and vice-versa if you try to put an interpulse pulsator on a surge lid you need an adaptor.

the 60:40 thing means that over a 100 say second time period 60 seconds of that time is suctioning, and 40 seconds of it are relaxing phase. This doesn't mean its a constant thing its done quickly squeeze-relax-squeeze-relax its just the percentage of each.

What brand of vacuum pump did you get? I would think you would need to keep the glass bottle full, but without a picture of it or brand type its hard to say. My surge vacuum doesn't have a glass bottle, it has a glass tube on the back that needs to make sure is half-way up the tube.

You do need to remove your gasket under the lid to clean as milk does and will get up under it.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Thank you So, SO much for all the help! My vacuum pump is a Conde' brand. I will try to remember to take a picture later.

I'm not sure how to get a squeeze/relax rate that is like that. My pulsator just has a knob that you adjust the speed with. I'll probably just do the 50/50 since it sounds the least complicated.


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## Goat Town (Nov 20, 2010)

You cannot change the pulsator's ratio without changing it's slides. In fact, I don't think you can change a Surge pulsator's ratio at all. All you can change is its rate, i.e., 60 ppm. If you have a conde pump, you have a good one.


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## Sharpgoat (Feb 7, 2008)

My Conde pump head looks like this one but I got mine from Parts.
http://hambydairysupply.com/xcart/product.php?productid=929&page=1


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## SANDQ (Dec 27, 2011)

Here are a coulpe of links you might find use full,
www.dairy-equip-surge.webs.com/vacuumpumpsandsetup.htm
www.milkingmachines.co.uk/pdf/cleaning_instructions.pdf

Have fun with your new toys Quentin


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

What is the function of a check valve?

Looks like Hambry's website is down. I will try again tomorrow I guess.


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

It's Hamby, not Hambry.....


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

OOPS! Well, I didn't type it, I just clicked it, and it was not working earlier, but it's up now.


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## Goat Town (Nov 20, 2010)

The check valve is supposed to close off the milk can to keep liquids from entering the pulsator. It doesn't work all the time, especially if you put too much milk or water into the can. The system will run without a check valve.


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## Goat Town (Nov 20, 2010)

Here is a site with instructions for repairing Surge pulsators:
http://surgemilker.com/instructions.html

I have a couple of tricks I use for cleaning those tiny air ports in the pulsator block. First old guitar strings work well because they are stiff enough to push through yet flexible enough to bend in all but the most severe angles. The ribbing on the metal strings helps pull the gunk out.

Another handy device I've found when I got into my ex's gun cleaning stuff. Those little wire brushes work well. There are also tiny little drills welders use use to clean the tips on gas torches.

You can clean the undersides of the valves as well as the pulsator block with 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper. Put a piece of sandpaper on a piece of granite or glass and use a figure eight motion to remove the gunk. Heavy scoring of the pulsator block resulting from the slides travelling across it is not an issue. What is important is where the valves sit.


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

http://hambydairysupply.com/xcart/home.php?cat=94


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