# Due in 10 days, swollen ankles



## cindy (Sep 16, 2008)

One of my La Mancha's has swollen, warm back ankles. I'm embarassed to say that her hooves hadn't been trimed in a while. 
are the swollen ankles from being pregnant or is it something I need to worry about? I trimmed her feet and they're normal. She isn't ketonic, but her breath is metallic smelling. She's eating her grain and hay. Out hay is timothy and clover or alfalfa.
Thanks!


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Make sure she is getting enough calcium...but just watch her. 10 days out, I wouldn't be doing anything heroic. If you have access to lutelyse and you have a 100% due date, I would freshen her out right before her due date so she doesn't get worse. She will be fine once she kids. 

Keep up with them feet, the worst thing for a heavy bred doe is to be walking around in bad shoes  In young does it can forever ruin her feet and legs, in older does it can make them down on their pasterns from that point forward. Vicki


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## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

I would be keeping a close eye on her - does she walk like she is on eggshells? Hypocalcemia/Ketosis can be a scary thing to pull a doe and her kids through. So monitor her condition. Be prepared to either drench her with MFO/CMPK oral, or get some CMPK from your vet to have on hand, just in case. Better safe than sorry - and yep, I am a bit of a boy scout and like to be prepared.


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## Golden Delta Alpines (Mar 8, 2012)

Oh wow, Vicki, I didn't know untrimmed hooves in late pregnancy can do permanent damage. I'm glad I read your post. I hope some of my does aren't permanently damaged. Just let trimming slip by, I'm gonna get out there tomorrow and get to it...


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## nlhayesp (Apr 19, 2012)

Go to the pharmacy and get "ketone strips" to check her urine for ketones so you can catch pregnancy toxemia early. If you can't catch her while urinating, it will still work on the few drops remaining on the vulva. I just lost my favorite doe from toxemia.


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## cindy (Sep 16, 2008)

Thank you. I was thinking we may be in the begining stages of ketosis. I have a definite breeding date, so I will induce her a few days before she's due. 

I have oral CMPK, but I'm not sure how much to give and when I should give it.

I'll pick up ketone strips today. I can't smell ketones, but my other half can.
Ken helped me out once with a sheep that had toxemia. It was a gross mixture of sweet potato, molassas, beer... I have to look that up. It really pulled my sheep thru, although she was totally plastered.


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## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

There are other signs of ketosis - such as the flesh "melting away" from the back bone. We had a Boer doe do this (she was carrying over 42 lbs of kids in there - quintuplets) and once we saw that "sign" we just started drenching her once a day.

Recipe:

1/4 cup of CMPK (2 ounces = 60ccs)
1/2 cup of gatorade/electrolyte type of fluid
1 Tbsp of molasses 
pinch of loose mineral

Feed to your doe once or twice a day. 

We did this for Madeline for 10 days and she kidded out her quints no problem and she went on to successfully nurse her Quads (one kid was born dead - last one out).


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

I have started trimming hoofs yesterday. Because of my arthritic hands, I can't do them during the cold winter months. My Oberhasli FF is due in 3 weeks or so (I'm at work, the due date is at home). Her hoofs were bad and all 4 of her "ankle" are hot and swollen. She gets a balanced diet with chaffhaye and or alfalfa pellets with 16% protein dairy pellet (not much choices for feed right now). I'll check her again when I get home. Maybe the same thing as your doe?


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## nlhayesp (Apr 19, 2012)

Keep us updated on the doe's progress. I like to know the end of the story. The "good" endings are an encouragement to me and the "bad" ones, we can be an encouragement to you.


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## nlhayesp (Apr 19, 2012)

I'll pick up ketone strips today. I can't smell ketones, but my other half can.
Ken helped me out once with a sheep that had toxemia. It was a gross mixture of sweet potato, molassas, beer... I have to look that up. It really pulled my sheep thru, although she was totally plastered.[/QUOTE]

Early toxemia doesn't have a strong smell. The strips can detect it. It is good to always have them on hand and check does on a regular basis.


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

You don't need a prescription to get the strips?


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## saanengirl (May 12, 2009)

I agree with the others that it probably is early toxemia. I typically see swollen pasterns with does that are carrying triplet bucks. Keep her eating, if possible induce her to kid on her due date, earlier if she gets worse. By day 145 the kids should be developed enough to do fine, but I would only induce that early if her appetite is depressed.


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## nlhayesp (Apr 19, 2012)

Ketone strips are not prescription. They are with the diabetes supplies, usually behind the counter at the pharmacy, so you have to ask for them.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

That's it, busy work, find the ketone strips, then spend the next couple of days trying to catch her peeing ....just don't go down the toxemia standard regimen of proprolyne glycol etc, which then make her stop eating and really puts her into a crisis. In a few more days of busy work you can give her 2cc IM of lute, kid her out in 36 hours and she will be fine. You may need to give her occytocin, most does in metabolic crises as they kid do not clean.

Then fix the problem for next year. Most ketosis and toxemia diagosis in dairy goats are either emaciated or fat goats, or simply misdiagnosed hypocalcemia. If you can't answer where is her daily nutritional calcium coming from, or if she is getting it what is the quality of it this late in the year nearly 6 or 7 months after it has been cut (why I ditched alfalfa hay)....or what minerals are you heavy or deficient in that are causing her not to uptake her calcium. Vicki


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## Golden Delta Alpines (Mar 8, 2012)

What do you mean when you say you ditched the alfalfa hay, Vicki? Just curious...


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Golden Delta Alpines said:


> What do you mean when you say you ditched the alfalfa hay, Vicki? Just curious...


I'm pretty sure she said this because the quality erodes during long term storage due to the heat and humidity down there.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Yes for sure. In this climate, pellets stay nice and green but the hay gets gross after a short time.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Think of what your protein, vitamins and minerals really are in your hay after it sits in hot humid barns and then cold humid barns, all winter, right as the adults need the hay to be wonderful...I would seriously doubt it rivals our 17% guaranteed minimum alfalfa pellets. Makes for some wonderful compost, but not sure it's doing all you hope for the goats.


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## cindy (Sep 16, 2008)

***UPDATE*** She has been walking around, we bring her into the milking parlor to feed her so that she doesn't have to compete with the younger ones, she's eating, ketone strip is positive so she's getting Propl. Glycol (she hates it) and she's getting CMPK. Tonight is induction night. Her ligaments are loose and she may kid tomorrow on her own, but I'm not taking chances... She's due on Tuesday. I'll continue to keep you posted.


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## cindy (Sep 16, 2008)

*She kidded today on her own!! So far we have 2 beautiful, healthy boys!! *


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

Congrats


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Yea! congratulations!


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I would doubt there are many goats in any of our herds, on a high grain diet getting ready to kid that weren't positive for ketones. If the pregnancy had lasted longer, she would have completely stopped eating from the PG, gone into acidosis, her blood pressure would spike, the kids would be dead upon delivery and she would be milking like spit for this lactation. Fix the problems with your absorption of major vitamins and minerals in your herd...they aren't cows. 

Congrats on the kids. Vicki


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## mammabooh (Sep 15, 2011)

Vicki McGaugh Tx Nubians said:


> Fix the problems with your absorption of major vitamins and minerals in your herd...they aren't cows


How does someone go about figuring out such issues and fixing them?


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Billie, the answer to that is to study all you can. This forum is a huge benefit because so many have already studied this all out. Also talk to folks in your area who have truly healthy goats.


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## mammabooh (Sep 15, 2011)

doublebowgoats said:


> Billie, the answer to that is to study all you can. This forum is a huge benefit because so many have already studied this all out. Also talk to folks in your area who have truly healthy goats.


I don't think there is anyone in my area with healthy goats...at least, not that I've seen. I have read every goat care book from the library and read online pretty much all day long, but all I see is conflicting information. It's too bad there isn't just one way to do things right. That would make it so much easier!


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

There is a lot of conflicting info. My advice is to stick to this forum for answers. There are decades of success represented here. If you are having a specific problem, feel free to post. Go through the dairy goat info section and also the goat 101 section. You will learn so much.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Billie, Michelle is right. I would stick to the info you find here. It has been invaluable to me. I know what you mean about wanting one answer and one way of doing something and to know that it works, but it's not always that easy (I finally understand why!). We all live in different parts of the country (and the world) so the mineral requirements are going to be different. Sometimes they are different even within your own herd. What is available to us to feed will be different, even our pocketbooks are different. 

Even the water you have can affect mineral uptake. I need to bolus more often due to high levels of Fe, Mo, and S in my water. Or, I could get a filter and add it to the line. Or a water conditioner. There are so many variables, thus it is not easy to give someone one simple answer, (trust me, I wish there was one). 

If you have a goat that has been under your management for a while and it dies, send in a liver sample for a nutritional analysis. Or you could send in a liver sample from a newborn kid (you can't wait a few months, that will be of little value). And, if no one dies for you to do this, you will have to go by looks. Body condition, hair, skin, feet.

Can you go to an ADGA show? Look around and notice the goats that you think are the healthiest. Then talk to these people and see what they do. People are very happy to talk about their goats. This isn't foolproof, but it's a start.


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## cindy (Sep 16, 2008)

My goats get a 16% protien feed, timothy and clover hay, and fresh water. I gave all of them a multi-min injection this fall, they have free choice mineral and buffer. All of my bred does were a healthy weight. This was the only doe with a problem. During her pregnancy, I noticed that she got shy and hung back from everyone when they were being grain fed. Her dam also had toxemia and I lost her after kidding to a ruptured uterus. She had 3 large stuck kids. Of the 20 I freshened, this doe was the only one with a problem. I thought it was toxemia, but fortunately, it's not something I have to deal with very often. I am so happy to say that she is doing well and so are the kids!! Now I need to watch her for milk fever. I'm going to monitor her temp, watch for shaking, and go from there!! Here is a picture of the dam from nationals.


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

Beautiful, Cindy! Is the dam yours?


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## cindy (Sep 16, 2008)

Yes she is! She placed 14th at Nationals last year in the Dry Yearling class. She is usually #1 in her class and has her dry leg. I'm thrilled with her udder. She must have given me a gallon of colostrum yesterday. The shape is nice and she's an easy milker. I'm excited to see how she tests next month. She has excellent bloodlines and I think I'm going to offer one of her kids in the Select Sale for the Wisconsin Dairy Goat Association.


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