# What color is this Nubian?



## Secondairy (Aug 12, 2008)

On the registration papers it just says "Brown, with white ears and spot on head". Now my Toggs are more what I would call Brown. I think this doe is more of a Red Bay with frosted ears/nose and white poll. Or is red bay limited to only Obers/Alpines, or goats with black bellies? Not that I would necessarily get her papers changed, but I would like to properly name the colors of her kids if I get ones like this later on down the road. Oh, please ignore the feet - we had just got her only a few days before and did not want to further stress her at the time of the pictures with trimming. Her feet were in really bad shape - they are better now, but still could use further leveling.



















Thanks!

Kelly


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2009)

Reddish Brown; black trim; white ears, crown; muzzle.

Sara


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## Tracy in Idaho (Oct 26, 2007)

In an Alpine, she'd be called a Red Chamoisee. We don't get frosted ears though


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## Secondairy (Aug 12, 2008)

Tracy - I was thinking something along the lines of Chamoisee and had it in my post, but removed it, because I thought it was kind of reserved for Alpines/Swiss breeds and did not want to look dumb...LOL! :crazy

Thank you Sara - I was hoping that you or Vicky would answer. I guess the papers were not that far off. Her original owner was calling her a tri-color, something I hear more from Boer and Nigerian breeders.

Kelly


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## Haglerfarm (Aug 11, 2008)

There are so many descriptions that would be correct. I like Sara's. I would have just put reddish bay w/black trim, white ears/nose, frosted ears. Or just bay. Bay meaning reddish brown with black trim. Short and sweet.
Les


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Well I have a doe the same color from Vicki and it says Brown with blk trim.


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## Haglerfarm (Aug 11, 2008)

Well she is a shade of brown. It is still correct. Just depends on how precise you want to get. And often as they age their shade changes.
Les


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## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

yep I would have described her as brown with white ears and crown. I don't get much more descriptive than that.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I also don't go in for the nit picking discriptions because they change so much from infants to grown. For her with her black on her face and dorsel stripe, I would bet shaved she is much darker brown, maybe even black then red. I always run my hand the opposite way across the hair of kids to make sure they match their paperwork when shaved. I will even put, black when shaved in a red doe.

I mostly put a distinguishing mark, like on this doe : Her black dorsel and blonde underbody. Think I would have called her auburn or burgandy  But she could have simply been brown at birth. Vicki


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## KingsCoGoatGuy (Dec 20, 2008)

I second what Vicki says. I have a doe almost the same as yours who is a darker shade of brown but clips down to black & brown mix, (very dark brown with tiger markings.) I even had a light tan kid born last year who clips to be totally black but some tan trim on the legs. 
I would put "brown with black trim, frosted ears and white topnot." Then again the CGS doesn't put their color on their papers only "Conforms with breed type and colours."


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2009)

My reddish brown does are true to color when clipped. 

Sara


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## Bilrite Farms (Oct 26, 2007)

Those Nubians... maybe she is hiding spots! :biggrin


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## Haglerfarm (Aug 11, 2008)

Several of mine are the same color all the way down, but not all. I always have to fold the hair back to see what color they will be when clipped. Mine tend to be much darker. I have had ones with hidden small spots. I have several that are frosted when clipped.
That is what makes them so interesting.
Les


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I think you are right Trisha! She doesn't mention the spots on the paperwork and then just dyes the does for showing  Or...she keeps all the solids an sells all the spots???? Vicki


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2009)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you two. I have had 3 spotted kids in the past 10 years... and sold them. 

Sara


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## LMonty (Oct 25, 2007)

and i have a lovely little spotted Sara grandaughter, just got her Saturday. Man,those Blissberry spots get around, don't they


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## Secondairy (Aug 12, 2008)

Thanks for the replies. I didnt even think about her under colors! I think she has a darker undercoat over her back, but she is pretty much true to color down her sides. I will have to clip her out in spring and see what the looks like then. So would this color be something of the agouti family? I have a tendency to use rabbit color terms with all animals - Toggs would be Chocolate Silver Martens, Black goats with red trim would be Black and Tan (or just the Tan group). Solid Blacks would be Self Blacks, Buckskins would be Agouti and so on.

I will definitely check out her under color though!

Kelly


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

It's definately a whole different thing coming up with colors on Nubian's papers. You can basically write what you see. When I used to do cats, there were specific names for the colors. If I see a goat with those colors, I'd be tempted to write that on the papers. Someone was asking what color a Pygmy cross was and to me it looked like a shaded silver. As for the goat in this thread, I have some that color. I put on Melia'a papers that she is red, frosted ears and muzzle, white on crown. Evette's papers, written by my friend, say Brn: Frosted ears & nose: Wht crown: Blk dorsal & on face & legs. Kathie


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

:rofl One more reason I do "color" breeds! Still don't know why they're called "color breeds"? They're ALL the same color,depending on breed! :really
Toggs-Brown (light,medium,dark) with correct white markings, OB's-Red with correct black markings and Saanen- WHITE! pretty easy on that one!
I tried to get inventive one yr. on the OB's, then got tired of that- now, just red. No real surprises when I clip 'em. :sigh
Kaye


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## KingsCoGoatGuy (Dec 20, 2008)

Not to worry Kaye some day you might get a sable!  Or some freaky colored Toggie or Ober. Or I could just ship you some semen from this fine Toggenburg buck at my place. I have to warn you he likes to throw long ears and lots of color.


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## SherrieC (Oct 26, 2007)

Alex, did you mean a Sable? Mine have those hiding in their linage and they'ld better not pop up here.

Sara, you will never live down those spotted kids. lol! Didn't you send Vickie a nice black buckling? It didnt' have spots, oh wait it was Tim that got the spots! lol. Spotted Blissberry fever the newest goat "virus" 
Watch out it could come to your farm as well....


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## KingsCoGoatGuy (Dec 20, 2008)

Yes I did mean to say Sable not Stable. oops.. Been on kid watch for the past two days and getting late night calls for help from other herds. Kidding has my brain wanting a good 24 sleep! 

I have to say spots are over rated. I really don't like the look of the ones covered in spots... I will take a brown Nubian day if you ask me... That or white. :biggrin: I do have spots pop up every so often but almost always bucklings... I did keep a black spotted doeling this year, which had lots of them at birth but is down to under 20!


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2009)

Ha, ha Sherrie!

Man, I'll never live down those 3 spotted kids, will I? :biggrin

Most everyone knows I hate spots so with any luck I won't have anymore born. 

I love brown Nubians, black is nice too. I dislike white Nubians as the vast majority have bad feet... now silver Nubians don't have the feet issues and are kind of pretty, but I wouldn't want more than one in the herd. I like my plain janes. 

LaManchas on the other hand... I LOVE the white ones!

Sara


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## SherrieC (Oct 26, 2007)

Now I'm going to feel bad if you have any spotted babies this year. Like I jinxed you. Give me Black any day, and I've never seen a silver nubian.


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2009)

I am going to feel bad if I have any spotted kids this year too. :lol

Naaaaaa, I'll just send them to you Sherrie. 

Sara


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## ChristinaF. (Dec 2, 2008)

Hey, no fair....I want one too!! I guess you'll have to have more than one. :lol

Christina


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## SherrieC (Oct 26, 2007)

Hmm,, If people would start buying loads of soap, I'ld order one, course I want a black one. I didn't have One black babie this year.


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## ChristinaF. (Dec 2, 2008)

Last year was so weird for us. We had 4 doelings and 4 bucklings. *ALL*the doelings were black and white and *ALL* the bucklings were brown and white. I'm anxious to see what will happen this year.

Christina


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## KingsCoGoatGuy (Dec 20, 2008)

Same here. Both my 2008 doelings were black spotted and black with dark brown trim. All but one buckling came out brown or tan. I should see lots of white this year.... lots of Alpines bred to white bucks.


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## SherrieC (Oct 26, 2007)

what was strange for me, I thought frosted ears was dominant, I bred two animals with frosted ears and got two kids with solid ears, what's up with that, they both must have gotten the recessive solid color ear gene. I like solid colored ears better though. Or maybe it's not a Dominate trait


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2009)

I love solid ears :biggrin

Christy


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## KingsCoGoatGuy (Dec 20, 2008)

cmharris6002 said:


> I love solid ears :biggrin


Ditto that! Love me some solid brown ears.


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

Well, it would have to be dominant for that to happen. If it was recessive, then you'd have to have two frosted ear genes in order to get frosted ears and then the babies of two frosted ear goats would have nothing but frosted ears. But if it's a dominant gene, then you would have frosted ears showing on goats that have either two frosted genes or a frosted gene and a solid gene. If you had either of the breeding pair having the two frosted genes, then all you could get were frosted ear babies. But since you didn't, that means that both of the goats that you bred would have a frosted gene and a solid gene. (And I'm assuming here that there's just one pair of genes regulating the frosting on the ears. Someone can correct me if that's wrong.) That would mean that the babies would either get two frosted genes (one from each parent) and that would be 25%, or one of each frosted and not, 50%, and both of these genotypes would result in frosted ear babies approximately 75% of the time. The other 25% would be that they got both of the non-frosted or solid genes which would result in solid ears. So you just got "lucky."


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## ChristinaF. (Dec 2, 2008)

Most of my does have frosted ears. We bred to a buck with solid. All but one of the bucklings had solid and the same for the doelings. I like the solid ears best two, so I have three doelings with nice shinny black ears. I hope I can get that to carry on. Which reminds me I need to start looking for a good buck for fall or learn to AI. :/

Christina


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Yeah but my beautiful black buck doesn't throw many black doelings even bred to black (for generations) does! Between GE turing my beautiful black does kids blonde and now Nic turning me non discript brown  At least I didn't get spots! I was lucky in the Blissberry Mr. Goodbar buck Tim has, my doeling out of him is brown, beautiful plain brown not a spot to be found! Vicki


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

Sherrie and I were talking about this last week.  I like the solid colors, but the spots seem to be a selling point. <shrug> I'm breeding my gals to her spotted young buck. Wouldn't it be sweeeet if they gave me twin doelings..a solid to keep and a spotted to sell! With my luck-the spotted will be the keepers, though. <rolling eyes> And I really don't think Junebug and Keeper will throw ANYTHING solid. LOL (Still trying to figure out her color-will have to figure out how to post a pic.)

Hadn't really thought about the ears til Sherrie mentioned them, so now every goat I look at, I notice the ears first. hehe I like the frosted ears on the lighter colored and solid ears on the darker colored. Yeah--I know, I'm strange. lol


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## Legend Hills (May 29, 2008)

Call me weird but I like the spotted and tri-colored ones. I do like the solid too though. So I'm hoping for a little of each come kidding time.


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## eliya (Mar 11, 2008)

I like all the colors. I do like spots although I don't have many spotted ones. We have lots of belly bands and partial belly bands though! This spring I had just about every imaginable color. I think it would be interesting to see what colors people got from what color sires and dams. I'll start a new thread for that and post the link here.


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## Secondairy (Aug 12, 2008)

I am glad that I posted my original question, because I am rather enjoying the color talk that has come up because of it. I really do like the color on this Nubian, but I also like the Oberhasli red Bay, and I have to admit, I LOVE spots - lots of them...many shades. I saw a gorgeous Paint patterned Boer cross that was Red with gray, creamy buff, and almost a mealy chocolate brown spotting. Sure was pretty. I love any swiss pattern, and really like the black Nubians with the rich red trim, so they look like a Doberman.

I was on your site Sara, and two of your does struck me as absolutely beautiful in their coloration. One being the gray and tan doeling Blissberry J Alibi, and Blissberry Wild Topaz's 2yr old picture. I think the dappling that she has over her back is lovely, but it looks as though it is more of a developed color, and not something that was as pronounced as a junior. Kind of reminds me of a varnish Appaloosa horse.

My boyfriend is interested in Alpines - he particularly likes the Red Bay and Cou Blanc. Both of us prefer the minimal white markings. We were looking for Alpines at one time, but really don't have the room for more than one breed, unless they were token, and then would be used with our Togg bucks only.

But thanks to all for the great read!

Kelly


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## eliya (Mar 11, 2008)

I started a new thread on colors of kids from different bucks, you can see it here: http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,7460.0.html


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## Secondairy (Aug 12, 2008)

Neat topic Eliya - Seems that from what I understand of the little known goat color genetics, Red/Gold/Cream and White are on the same Allele, and Chocolate and black (with Black being recessive to Chocolate colors) also share the same. The Red trimmed animals appears to be dominant over solid, and the Agouti colors (Cou Clair, Cou Blanc, Buckskin, & animals with banding/ dorsal stripes) tend to dominate overall. It would almost seem to hold water with the results that you have. Also white spotting in rabbits is caused by modifiers that control the amount of white spotting and it's size. Also certain genes control the pattern of white - such as the Dutch belting gene, which would also be applied to the white banding across the bellies in goats, and Belted Galloway cattle.

Thanks for the post, although I didn't know if I should reply here or to the other thread - but your color palette of kids are beautiful!

Kelly


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## eliya (Mar 11, 2008)

Thanks! I know there is a rhyme and reason to how the colors come out, but I still can't quite wrap my brain around it all. I am guessing the 'white with black' doeling I have on there is actually black with tons of white spotting making her look white with black.


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## SherrieC (Oct 26, 2007)

Hey Kelly I have a gorgeous red bay nubie baby doeling for sale : ) 
I think Topaz is Beautiful too, I'll have to look again at Alibi


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## Secondairy (Aug 12, 2008)

> Hey Kelly I have a gorgeous red bay nubie baby doeling for sale : )


But I don't *DO* Nubians Sherrie!!!! :rofl Those big dumb ears, that snooty big nose, those crazy long legs, and those SHORT coats...just so weird  My Toggs think Lottie (the Nube with the color question) is just plain bizarre - should have seen them when they first got a look at her...when she was kicking up her heels after quarentine and her ears were flopping, they all ran away from her snorting! My doe with the new kids wont let the weirdo near them, and all she wants to do is love on them :sigh

Ahh well...I wold probably fall in love with your Nubie baby. Thank god you are so far away 

Kelly


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## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

> Yeah, yeah, yeah, you two. I have had 3 spotted kids in the past 10 years... and sold them. Sara


Yeah she don't have any spotted goats.... BALONEY!!! Mr. Goodbar is so spotted he looks like camouflage. His ears aren't even white. Sara marked him. :lol More than half of Mr. Goodbar's kids are spotted too.

My herd didn't have any spots whatsoever. Blacks, browns etc but no spots. Mr. Goodbar is predominate for spots. Out of 8 kids, I have 2 blacks, 1 brown, 1 black with white spots all over and brown trim, 4 brown with white spots - and most of them lots of spots.....

You want spots? Ask me for one - Sara passed all of those cooties on to me - that's where I got the spotted virus from. :crazy

One thing I can say about spots - people like them - they will sell. dance:


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

:rofl Sara hasn't started kidding, yet....you guys just jinxed her! Now, watch the spots appear this year! :twisted

Oh, and Alex- NO THANKS on the *Togg* buck that throws long ears and spots. :really
Kaye


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## Haglerfarm (Aug 11, 2008)

Yes, spots do sell. I don't breed for spots, but get a lot of them. Especially from Jedi Knight. He himself is not really what I would call spotted. He has one big spot on his rump and a very faint spot on his front shoulder. But, he sure throws them pretty often. He also gives me lots of solid ears which I love. I have had 3 bucks that generally gave me solid ears. And a doe line that does. I really like them. But, I have lots of requests for black and white spotted goats with frosted ears. But mostly my spotted goats are red, shades of brown and mottled (camouflage like) with brown ears.... Oh well.
But, people will take the spotted one even if the plain colored one is the better. That is OK, I will keep the plain one. I like them. My most favorite are roans. Don't want any white ones. 
Les


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## Secondairy (Aug 12, 2008)

I love blue roan?? (that lovely black and white mingled gray color) with the reddish trim...SO incredibly stunning to look at! 

The only thing that I can see happening with too many spots, is if they are in areas where it creates an optical illusion defect to the conformation. Sometimes with our rabbits, the broken colors (spotted) will sometimes look like they are flat over the HQ's or have a dip in the shoulder due to placement of the colored spots over the white background.

Kelly


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## eliya (Mar 11, 2008)

I know what you mean. My buck Star looks weaker in the chine because of his belt sometimes.


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

This is a pic of Junebug (sorry-it is goofy, but it was the only one that shows the shading of her color and she's obviously in heat, trying to mount the buck <rollingeyes>). Is this what's called 'roan'? The brown/red on her front is lighter than in the back. You can't see in the picture, but her front legs are white with small brown and black markings. Trying to figure out how to describe her coloring, any suggestions?


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## KingsCoGoatGuy (Dec 20, 2008)

Here are some pictures of blue/grey roans. The first doe is the dam to the second buckling pictured, sired by a grey roan buck. (I do not own these animals. Only took the pictures. )



















(below) A friends doe Ripple. I would think she is a red/grey roan? Some one correct me if I am wrong. Don't know my "roans". :nooo As you can tell I like my brown gals dance:


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Here is a pic of our blue roan, I absolutely fell for her when I saw her picture. 








Lindsey on the other hand wants spots. Hopefully one of our girls will give her one. If not I guess we will have to order one from you Tim :biggrin Tammy


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

One of my doelings this year is a blue roan. She's the one I'm thinking of keeping. Her dam is a blue roan also, but not nearly as much roaning as her.


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

I love spots. I have two does with them. Diamond (black and whitte spotted) has given me a buckling with a few spots, but neither of her daughters have them. One is a brown roan, the other black. Foxy (brown spotted)will be a FF this year. I'm hoping for spotted doelings out of both of them this kidding season. They are easier to sell. I already have someone interested in a spotted buckling. I should be getting some blue roan kids this year. I have one blue doe and I used her blue son on several of the girls. I used a black roan buck on most of the others. It will be interesting to see the colors I get this year. Of course, I'll always take a show quality plain Jane brown doe over a so so spotted one. Kathie


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## eliya (Mar 11, 2008)

Necie said:


> This is a pic of Junebug (sorry-it is goofy, but it was the only one that shows the shading of her color and she's obviously in heat, trying to mount the buck <rollingeyes>). Is this what's called 'roan'? The brown/red on her front is lighter than in the back. You can't see in the picture, but her front legs are white with small brown and black markings. Trying to figure out how to describe her coloring, any suggestions?


She looks a lot like my doe Grace:















This is what she looks like clipped (as a dry yearling)








I would say your doe is a red roan with gold trim, black points; frosted ears and nose and a white belt.


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