# Slugs and liver flukes



## Rosesgoats (Apr 22, 2011)

I never see any snails on my property in northern NY but I do see a heck of a lot of slugs. Do slugs carry liver flukes like snails do?


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## Goat Town (Nov 20, 2010)

Yes they do. I see few snails but lots of slugs so I use a flukicide in my worming program. Last year I had a doe become very ill from flukes and it was a long process to rehabilitate her.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Good to know. We have slugs, but no snails, as well.


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## jejarvis (Nov 11, 2009)

We have liver flukes here in the Pacific Northwest, mostly from slugs (numerous) and a few snails. I use the iron slug killer around my pastures (it is safe for animals) but the goats get to go to browse in the woods at times, so I have seen evidence on fecals of liverfluke eggs. I always give ivomec plus at least 1 time per year. Haven't had any goats ill from flukes, yet.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Welcome Julie!


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## jejarvis (Nov 11, 2009)

Hi-- I've been lurking on here for awhile! Great info!! Busy time of year for me, so probably won't post often. Thanks everyone for sharing info! :lol


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## Rosesgoats (Apr 22, 2011)

I found liver fluke eggs on my fecal samples on Saturday. My kids have Coccidia, Liver Fluke and Barberpole. They haven't been treated for anything but coccidiosis a few weeks ago. I tested my adult does on Saturday and found NO eggs at all! They have been on Hoegger's Herbal Dewormer for 5 weeks. I am very impressed! When I started the herbal dewormer I did a fecal sample test and found some eggs in each doe (at that time I couldn't tell what they were but now I have gotten better at identification). After 5 weeks of herbal I found NO eggs at all! Even my doe with chronic lungworm cough has stopped coughing! I am going to start the kids on the herbal stuff ASAP and retest them every week. If they don't improve, I will go for the Noromectin PLus and Sulmet 12.5% drinking water solution.


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## Laverne (Apr 4, 2010)

That's excellent that you are fecaling with your herbal de worming. Herbal worming can't be done without fecaling. I have my goats worms under control chemically but I did get some herbal wormer from Fir Meadow. I am fecaling so it will be interesting to see how it goes. I am going to be cautious with the Liverflukes though since they may not show up on a fecal, in winter, along with other species of worms since they are in a hibernating state in winter. I will probably worm preventatively in winter, anyway, or I'll be a nervous wreck.

Julie, welcome to the forum! and yes Liverfluke is alive and well here in the Pacific Northwest.


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## jejarvis (Nov 11, 2009)

rosesgoats: Are you treating your kids with the herbal wormer too? I don't mess around with liver flukes. If I know a goat has them I do 3 dose of ivomec plus 7-10 days apart. I have not had good luck with Valbazen. Since I have been copper bolusing, I have not seen any liver fluke eggs. I also do a fecal smear in addition to the fecal float. This will find the fluke eggs which sometimes don't float in the solution. I just put a bit of poop on the slide, take a drop of the solution and mush it around then put on a cover slip. There is a bit more debris to look at, but I have seen lots more eggs this way. Plus it is faster than waiting for the float set up. Most times I will look at the smear while the floatation is working. 

Do you know what is in your herbal wormer?? I am really interested in using herbals for prevention. I am not against using the drugs if there is a need, but it would be nice to not have to use them as much.


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## Rosesgoats (Apr 22, 2011)

I just started the kids on the herbal dewormer yesterday. They had been previously untreated. I will be doing fecal samples again this weekend to check if the herbs have any effect on the kids' worm loads. If there is no change then I will go for the Noromectin Plus 3 doses. I am encouraged to use the herbal dewormer on the kids since the adults have no internal parasite eggs in their fecals. I will be very vigilant with looking at fecal samples because I know that I don't want to inadvertantly kill my kids by thinking that one kind of dewormer or the other will work. I would be doing weekly fecals even if I use the chemical dewormers. No more messing and guessing for me!

The Hoegger's Herbal Dewormer contains quassia, psyllium, fennel, wormwood, and gentian. This is what I have been using. I might switch to the Molly's when I run out of the Hoegger's because her formulas don't have as much wormwood, which I have heard differing opinions about its safety. 

I will try the fecal smears next time I run my fecal floats. I am also working on trying to "borrow" the confocal microscope at work and get some really good computer images of the worm eggs in my samples (I work at a research lab). It would be nice to get a couple of pictures with a few different types of worms in them for comparison. I will post pictures if I get good ones.


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## jejarvis (Nov 11, 2009)

Cool, post photos if you can. I think it would be great to illustrate the size difference in fluke eggs vs other worm eggs vs cocci. It is hard to see regular worm eggs and fluke eggs on the same slide to show the size difference. But I usually will see some cocci on the slides with other eggs and that helps me to notice the size difference. Around here (near Seattle) the vets do not seem to understand that there is a fluke issue. I know that the eggs can look similar, but fluke eggs are much bigger.

Let us know how the herbal wormer works on the kids!


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

With herbs if you are trying to actually bring a fecal count down, you will probably need several daily doses. 

An herb called Centaury is supposed to be good for liver flukes . I am trying to grow some if I can just get the seeds to sprout.


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

My place is infested with both, slugs and snails........nasty little critters. They feel really nasty squished between your toes.


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

dragonlair said:


> My place is infested with both, slugs and snails........nasty little critters. They feel really nasty squished between your toes.


That brings back childhood memories! Blegh. I grew up the the Pacific NW where slugs are plentiful. I hardly ever see them here in North GA.


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## Rosesgoats (Apr 22, 2011)

Slugs are the one creature that grosses me out! I don't mind snakes or spiders and I work with 10,000 mice -- but slugs --- UGH!! 

The herbal dewormer that I started the kids on yesterday says to give them 1/2 tsp. twice a day for 3 days and then start once a week treatments. I am very curious to see what the fecal samples will look like this weekend after I finish the 3 day rotation. I did notice that one of my kids had scours on Sunday night but this morning was cleared up. The scours look like from coccidiosis. I am watching her very closely and I have a bottle of Di-Methox 12.5% drinking water solution at the ready if she doesn't clear up completely by tonight. She will be the first kid I am going to fecal next! 

I hope I can get some good pictures of worm eggs. I would love to get Coccidia, liver fluke and barberpole in the same field of view for a side-by-side picture. I will certainly post what I find.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Just an FYI Rose, Cocci can be ravaging goats without showing diarrhea. I would fecal immediately.


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## Jo~* (Oct 26, 2007)

smithurmonds said:


> dragonlair said:
> 
> 
> > My place is infested with both, slugs and snails........nasty little critters. They feel really nasty squished between your toes.
> ...


Ya, we so have lots of slugs and snails including them big Banana slugs. Id rater step in a fresh cow pie than a slug or snail.
Its so hard to wash off the slim from them yuk. I hate it when they get in my strawberries.
JoAnn


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

Jo~* said:


> smithurmonds said:
> 
> 
> > dragonlair said:
> ...


So true!


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## Red Mare (Apr 23, 2011)

dragonlair said:


> My place is infested with both, slugs and snails........nasty little critters. They feel really nasty squished between your toes.


Icky icky Ick!
We don't have slugs or snails much at our place. Just not enough cool wet places for them to hide, and lots of lizards and things that like to eat them!


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## helmstead (Jun 19, 2009)

I had to giggle...Nicki - I grew up in North GA and hardly EVER saw slugs EXCEPT at Easter...you could BET they'd cover the darn eggs I was hunting outside (and I had quite the aversion as well). GROSS!!


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

Eeeewwwww....the Easter slug!


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