# Hard cheeses from Alpine milk?



## Island Creek Farm (Jun 16, 2010)

I know that Pav posted a response earlier to a similar question, but this is a follow up question!

It was pointed out that when making hard cheeses w/milk from Alpines, you tend to get a "bitter" taste to the cheese. I had a round of white cheddar (aged 4 months), a round of Colby (aged 3 months) and a round of Jalapeno Jack also aged 3 months. I knew that the bitter taste would be present (from a previously cut Jalapeno Jack), but tried these cheeses anyway. The Jack and Colby had a smooth start, nice and creamy flavour, then WHAM! Bitter, almost like an aftertaste. There was no mold under the wax, NO odor...they smelled creamy, just like "regular" cheese.

The cheddar however, had a much reduced bitterness to it...to the point that my son requested I keep it for him to eat. My question is, does aging reduce this aftertaste, or was it just that the milk was fresher (as in closer to kidding)?

Is there a way to make hard cheeses taste correct from Swiss breeds? My mozz is excellent, as is the chevre/fromage blanc. I was really hoping to make some type of hard cheese...should I try a different type? Surely there's a way to alter some step in the process?

HELP!

(AND, my grandmother happened to purchase my cheese press as a present, and is wondering when I'm going to send her some cheese!)


----------



## linuxboy (Oct 26, 2009)

Okay, so in that thread, when I was talking about Alpine milk, I said that it's very well suited to fresh cheeses because the Alpines were bred for dairy, for high total production with lower solids and fat. You can definitely make hard cheese from Alpine milk.

Bitterness is a whole other issue. Bitterness comes from casein that breaks apart into smaller components called peptides. That breaking apart comes from enzymes present in the milk, in the bacteria, and from the rennet.

If you use too much rennet or an unsuitable rennet, bitterness can result.
If the bacteria you use as the starter don't do a good job with breaking apart those larger peptides into smaller amino acids, you tend to get bitterness.
If there is excessive enzyme activity, like you find in older milk or agitated milk, same thing.
Or if the ambient bacteria are present, some tend to produce off flavors.
And of course, the aging matters. If you age very quickly, at high temps above 55F or so, you push the cheese, and it can lead to off flavors.

If you want to focus on a hard cheese, let me know what your steps and ingredients are and we can troubleshoot


----------



## Island Creek Farm (Jun 16, 2010)

As a newbie, I followed Ricki Carroll's Home Cheesemaking recipes. My milk wasn't more than 36 hours old, and I used vegetable rennett (mistake?)and cultures from Hoegger. Her recipes are more time-related, which made me wonder (no ph readings etc). I would like to try some hard cheeses that would be more edible LOL. Can you recommend either a cheesemaking book or recipe website?

I am going to try your semi-lactic Annette once I get some mold powders, but probably after one of my does freshens in February.

They looked decent...but this is where they ended up...

[attachment deleted by admin]


----------



## Island Creek Farm (Jun 16, 2010)

Also, milk was checked by state labs and both 48 hour and 10 day cultures elicited no "bad stuff". Aged at about 50 degrees (my little fridge wouldn't go lower), finished the last month in the regular fridge at around 40 when I commandeered the little fridge for milk overflow.

If you could point me in a correct direction of a recipe that perhaps is more specific, if that's what I need? Not discouraged by a long shot, I really want to learn to get this right! I've got a background in Culinary Arts, but we didn't cover _making_ cheese!

What's a good "starter" hard cheese? I was surprised I got the white cheddar (first hard cheese I made) so close! Colby was a little dry, pepper jack_ looked _  perfect, but had the nasty aftertaste.

I'm hoping my failures will help someone else!

Thanks SO much for your help and input!


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

I had trouble with bitterness from the chymostar rennet. I changed to normal calf rennet and since then I have had great luck with aged cheeses. 
Don't you have dogs or chickens you can feed that to?


----------



## Island Creek Farm (Jun 16, 2010)

my dogs come inside...was afraid they'd get a blowout w/all that cheese! Oddly enough, my chickens don't like cheese, but they drink milk and eat...gasp! Hot wings!

I'll order some calf rennett...that would be nice if that was a major contributor! Thanks!


----------



## linuxboy (Oct 26, 2009)

Ricki tried to make cheesemaking accessible, and her recipes reflect that. But the other side of that tradeoff is that cheesemaking is not like cooking. It requires precision.


> Can you recommend either a cheesemaking book or recipe website?


 Which cheeses? I have some on my site. I can send you more if you let me know which cheese. And I can talk you through a few makes if you need more help.

The semi-lactic is a great cheese to make and eat. Instant gratification - only a few weeks of waiting, if that.



> Also, milk was checked by state labs and both 48 hour and 10 day cultures elicited no "bad stuff". Aged at about 50 degrees (my little fridge wouldn't go lower), finished the last month in the regular fridge at around 40 when I commandeered the little fridge for milk overflow.


Those conditions are just about perfect. I think your rennet was too active. See my rennet article for the reasons.
http://www.wacheese.com/index.php?o...oagulants&catid=47:starter-cultures&Itemid=67



> If you could point me in a correct direction of a recipe that perhaps is more specific, if that's what I need?


Which cheese family? American styles like colby and jack? European styles? My tomme is a perennial favorite

http://www.wacheese.com/index.php?o...e-howto&catid=43:moderate-cook-temp&Itemid=66

it's a good beginner starter cheese and you can vary it quite a bit. It's rather forgiving when you make mistakes because the acidification happens after you drain the whey. I recommend most people start with a tomme as the first hard cheese, and then move on to other cheeses. Cheddar is actually rather tough unless you measure acidity or have years of experience.

What you can do with bitter or bad cheese is make processed cheese out of it at home. The bitterness usually goes away then.


----------



## Island Creek Farm (Jun 16, 2010)

so it's promising that my cheddar was close :biggrin?

On the Tomme, if I am using raw milk, I don't need to use cultures (reading bottom of page), or should I go ahead and use some-I have FD? And, um...flocculation, is that how long to set?

The molds I have are for my press, but would a basket mold work, or is the curd too soft?

Am ordering animal rennet today


----------



## Island Creek Farm (Jun 16, 2010)

whoops...didn't read down further about pressing...got it now


----------



## linuxboy (Oct 26, 2009)

Absolutely, the only other thing I can think of is that the curds were too moist, but seems like the texture of the cheese was fine, so it's likely not that.

You should use a pinch of culture in the tomme. 

Flocculation is the time it takes for the surface to gel. It's the time from adding rennet to the point where the surface has gelled over. Should take 10-15 minutes.

Yes, a basket mold would work so long as you press it with another basket mold. It's easier to use a follower, though. Tommes are meant to be easy peasant cheeses.


----------

