# Goat poisoning?



## K-Ro (Nov 10, 2009)

Last year in October we started having sick goats. Severe diarrhea, dehydration, death, etc. Our vet said that he thought it is was Senna poisoning. We never found any Senna here, but we did find Texas Groundsel which is also extremely poisonous - I still am not sure that is what it was or is.

We pulled the goats off the pastures after loosing 4 of them, so off pastures in Jan until I don't know march or april, don't remember.

Our vet recommended putting down the one we took in as according to him there is no saving them once they are poisoned. Even though I pulled a few through it, he told me I was lucky, pure luck. When blood was pulled it was practically a gel. Worm counts were low. 

Well last weekend, my pygmy and alpine herd queens (two different pastures-but beside each others) both came down with the same thing, severe diarrhea, no eating , no drinking, etc. I mean they go down and they usually do not get back up and this is within hours of the first signs. I do not find any Senna this year either, nor is there any Texas Groundsel, so I don't know what it is.

I gave and still am giving activated charcoal, pepto, aspirin, scour halt, syringe them water, baking soda. Obviously , not at the same time, sort of alternate here and there. I figure as long as they are still alive I'm doing something right.

Pygmy doe is doing better she actually came and met me when I went in the barn.

Summer, my alpine doe was due 2/5 and miscarried last night. She is able to get up and move around even though she still has severe diarrhea. Yesterday she would drink which is/was good. Today not drinking much.

So that's the background. My question is do you think I should start her on a round of antibiotics just to be safe?

Our buck last year, we pumped full of Pen G when he was going thru this, before we knew it was poisoning, but he also was getting pnuemonia the way he sounded, lungs rattled really bad. Of course, once again the vet said we were just lucky pulling him thru.

I do have calls and emails into our county extension agent, which they never replied or called back last year, but figured I would try again. Also to A&M, but no reply as of yet.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

When saying you should put the goat down because there is no saving it, than having it put down for an immediate necropsy would of course have been the best money spent. I will treat disease myself, if I don't have a good response in 24 hours it's to the vet, if there is no response and another goat comes down with whatever symptoms the first one has, it's Texas A&M, blood tests etc... and I will put down the illest goat to save the herd.

There is so much this could be, bacterial, get everyone onto tetracycline then onto a feed through for the winter and spring...I know feed through tetracyclines are out of vogue, but it used to be pretty common and we never had problems in herds like you do now with bacterial enteritis and bacterial pnemonias because tetracyclines at low levels allow the does to kill them in the system. Listerosis, you can have chronic cases if they have access to the same moldy hay or? and then acute attacks kills a few here and there, especially with the talk of abortion.

The problem is, if they aren't given a once over by someone knowledgeable...anemia, fecals, blood study....than although the original symptoms are this and this and this...nearly all goats die from pnemonia symptoms in the end because it is the opportunisitc bacteria that kills them...it did not cause the death, it started it...so you continue to harbor in your soil, in your barn, in your hay, in your feeders, in your goat...something that is causing the initial disease stress. You could have a carrier doe on your place also.

Most of the time it's simple detective work to find out this stuff...was it cured by quarantine of pasture or did something else change from not letting them out in the pasture...more hay was put out, new hay was put out, and now that the pastures are back open, are you then feeding different hay, a different place for the hay? 

For me, course this was preinternet...the best thing going was friends in goats, we would visit each others farms and walk through the place with a fresh eye "You know Vicki that cap you have in the pasture is uguly but also they could knock it over on each other"...."Wow, have you noticed how fat....insert someones name...is?" Having a new eyes look over what you see everyday can sometimes instantly give you the answer you need.

But other than that there isn't enough information for anything other than a guess. Sorry. Vicki


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Checking your hay and changing where you buy your grain are two good suggestions but....
Can you get a county agent or a botany student to come do a complete id on what is growing in your area? Do you have Wooly Croton? This is a killer as well and it feels like a drug to them so they eat more and more each time and altho it takes several times it will kill them. We have to battle it because all around us no one bushhogs and it seeds us every year. We lost freezer wethers to it because we thought they would not eat it. But they do once they try it and get high on it. It is dormant now but even the dry plants from summer can be poisonous.
Don't let your vet tell you stuff like 'just luck'. It is radical intervention and intensive care that they would not do for a goat that pulls them out of it. Like keeping them hydrated and restarting the rumen etc. Not LUCK! Agree with V. on the pneumonia- always secondary and usually the killer as once they get enough fluid in the interstices they just can no longer breathe. If you have rattles add some banamine to the mix for anti-inflammatory so they will quit moving fluid to the lungs.
Can you get some probiotics and or yeast with microbes down the ones who are scouring?
I am so sorry- the mystery of it makes it so much worse. If you cannot find someone to ID your pastures feel free to take photos and send them to Don. He has a FLora for Texas and can id for you.
Hope things improve. Including a photo of Croton.
Lee

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## Sharpgoat (Feb 7, 2008)

Lee can you put a link up about Wooly Croton.
I have another smaller Croton (Dove weed) that my Boer goats eat with out ill effect and I have a friend that has a bunch of Wooly Croton and her goats are doing fine.
Out to learn all I can.
Thanks
Fran


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

I didn't know that plant was poisonous, pretty sure we have some here and there. Crud


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Fran ours is also called Dove weed (well I know nothing not being from here I had a gal out who is an herbalist), and our goats eat it also, and it does look exactly like the photo....I know we were not to feed this to the rabbits when we were feeding them weeds off the property and some garden stuff we grew. Vicki


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Yes it is pretty much found on any disturbed ground and is a sign of overgrazing in Texas you see acres of it and bitter weed. There are few poisonings from it because it is not that palatable but once they get a taste for it there are problems. You see cattle eating all around the bases of them in overgrazed pasture but they never touch it- goats are the most common victims. Late in the season when the flowers are maturing they like it the best and it is the most poisonous. IF they are eating plenty of other stuff it is not a problem to nip a few buds but if they stand and stuff on it - boo hoo. It is bitter and the fuzz is prickly so most people have no problems. It contains glycocides that interfere with nutrient uptake.

Symptoms here were scours and sunken look and star gazing alternating with nervousness and finally muscle weakness and inability to get up and rubbery muscles when they do. We did not know these little boys were eating it until I walked by the fenceline where it was growing and saw the tips clipped. They did a wasting sort of death even with intervention.


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## K-Ro (Nov 10, 2009)

Thanks for the replies and the link. It was confirmed last year with the doe we let the vet put down, poisoning. We did pull them off the pasture until warm weather and it stopped. We sprayed the pastures hoping to kill whatever this is. obviously didn't work.

am going to start her on antibiotic just to be safe. 

Will also see if I can find someone else to come walk around and take a look too as another set of eyes.


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## Sharpgoat (Feb 7, 2008)

Carol I would be happy to come over and help you look if you would like.
Fran


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## K-Ro (Nov 10, 2009)

That would be fantastic. Will send u a email in abit. Thanks


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