# odd bleeding-heart disbudding question



## Fly to the Moon (Sep 11, 2010)

I read that disbudding improperly with an iron can cause the brain to swell, ultimately causing brain damage. That makes enough sense that I'm wondering if even competent disbudding can cause milder swelling and less, but still some, brain damage. I think it might be weird to worry about the mental capacity of my goats, but I don't want them to be brain damaged. At all. :? (I may change my mind on that when I actually have goats and find out they're outsmarting me LOL) I'm worried enough about it that I'm contemplating going with the surgical option, but I don't know what potential problems with that would be. Greater risk of infection, I'd guess. Is anesthesia appropriate? Is it dangerous for kids?


----------



## mathewsfive (May 2, 2010)

I have watched it done, and seen kids that have had it done, and they cry more going into the box than when they get disbudded. It is only like 8 seconds with the iron and they are done and just as playful and happy as before they had it done. I really don't think it hurts them at all! If you went the surgical rout there would probably be more pain than the disbudding. (just my opinion)


----------



## Fly to the Moon (Sep 11, 2010)

That's why I was wondering about anesthesia for cutting the buds out - though I get more persistent pain from a burn than a cut, myself. I'm not so worried about the few seconds of pain during the procedure either way, but more about potential long-term but less obvious effects. 

For the iron, wonder if it would be prudent (or safe?) to give banamine to kids beforehand?


----------



## mathewsfive (May 2, 2010)

goats aren't like horses. They don't do good with anesthesia. I have read a couple of times about does dieing from it when they had to have c-sections. You might want to listen to the advice of a more seasoned person, but I wouldn't go to the extreme when I am pretty sure the burning doesn't hurt them at all.


----------



## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

The hot iron, if at the correct temp, kill the nerves so there is little to no pain after the first couple of seconds. Third degree burns have no pain, first and 2nd do. Disbudding causes 3rd degree burns.

I have never had a brain damaged kid from disbudding, even as kids their heads are pretty hard. If you kept the iron on way too long you could have problems I'm sure. If you do it properly, the kids jump down and run around with their buddies (or back to Mom if they are dam raised). Once it starts to heal they may scratch at it because it itches.

I apply almost frozen aloe to the burned buds as soon as I am done with each side. 

I would not go the surgical route, that is painful and rough on the animal.


----------



## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

Goats and anesthesia don't mix well. Don't think that's a good idea. No experience disbudding yet but have one baby so far that has been. We got him at 3 days old. He is fine and quite intelligent. As long as its done by someone who knows what they're doing, I doubt there is much chance of brain damage. I would think the surgical way would be much more painful for a longer period of time and that there would be much more risk going that route.


----------



## Fly to the Moon (Sep 11, 2010)

All good things to know! Especially about anesthesia not being good for goats.  Definitely avoid that, then. I've never had a 3rd degree burn, either - didn't know they didn't hurt! Um, still don't want one. Heh. Nice to know kids don't have lasting pain from that, though. 

So, no banamine for just-in-case prevention of swelling, then? 

How do you know if the iron is hot enough?


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

My husband always says, They are nubians how do you tell if they are brain damaged or not....he isn't kidding. The amount of time you would have to keep an iron on a head to cause damage is long. I do feel sorry for those who have to learn by the internet, and not by watching a breeder do your doelings and then she watches you do your bucklings. I am such a visual learner. Vicki


----------



## mathewsfive (May 2, 2010)

The person I watched had a board that she burned. If I were you I would try to find someone close to you who has done it before and ask if you could watch them, or have them do your first kids so you can watch and learn.


----------



## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

<They are nubians, how do you tell if they are brain damaged or not...> 
Hahaha!


----------



## Fly to the Moon (Sep 11, 2010)

> They are nubians how do you tell if they are brain damaged or not


*snicker*

Um, I mean. I'm getting LaManchas! But I have to say Nubians are developing kind of a reputation in my head for not being the brightest bulbs.

Ok, I'm definitely going to find someone to teach me to do it in person, and supervise me when I try it. Otherwise I'm likely going to cause some real damage in an effort not to cause any damage.


----------



## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

We were trying to decide between LaManchas and Nubians. I thought it was kind of ironic - the earless goats and the long pretty eared goats.  
We chose Nubians but I do still like the LMs. Everyone says how loud the Nubians are and how quiet the LMs are also. Guess we liked the two most opposite breeds of each other. Our Nubians aren't loud though. Well, let me rephrase that - they are loud, just not often. Only when they see me at milking time or if something is wrong. 
Hope you enjoy your LMs when you get them! They really are cute!


----------



## Fly to the Moon (Sep 11, 2010)

Jryan said:


> Hope you enjoy your LMs when you get them! They really are cute!


Thank you! They are supposed to be entertaining, anyway. Funny, back when I knew I'd eventually have goats, but wasn't in the process of actually getting ready to get goats, I assumed I'd get Nubians. I still love those ears!


----------



## Laverne (Apr 4, 2010)

I've got a little bleeding heart going on here. I have a quart size baggie filled with ice and some water and put it on the head immediately after burns for the miniscule possibility of brain swelling.


----------



## Fly to the Moon (Sep 11, 2010)

Laverne said:


> I've got a little bleeding heart going on here. I have a quart size baggie filled with ice and some water and put it on the head immediately after burns for the miniscule possibility of brain swelling.


Ooh. I think I'll do that! Thanks!


----------



## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

I agree with those who say disbudding is much safer than anesthesia and surgery. I was lucky enough to have been able to watch kids being disbudded when I worked at the goat dairy and have the owner be with me when I disbudded my bucklings. It really is a simple procedure and the babies recover quickly. I've only had to give Banamine a couple times ever and I think that may have been to bucklings who got the double whammy (banded, too).


----------



## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

I learned the same way Vicki did, watched someone doe, then they watched me disbud and instructed me along the way. Some babies are more hysterical than others, you will notice this when you give DiMethox or wormer, some will act like they are definitely going to die this very minute 

AnnMarie, if you get a chance, watch someone do the disbudding, it is nowhere as bad in person compared to just reading about it. Having a mentor help with the first few kids you do yourself is a huge help and comfort.


----------



## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

prairie nights said:


> I learned the same way Vicki did, watched someone doe, then they watched me disbud and instructed me along the way. Some babies are more hysterical than others, you will notice this when you give DiMethox or wormer, some will act like they are definitely going to die this very minute
> 
> AnnMarie, if you get a chance, watch someone do the disbudding, it is nowhere as bad in person compared to just reading about it. Having a mentor help with the first few kids you do yourself is a huge help and comfort.


Oh my goodness, I remember the first time I gave a kid corid I thought I had possibly killed it. He gurgle screamed, flopped to the ground and was foaming and screaming! Gee whiz!

I agree it's not too bad, but you don't want to be timid about doing it. I'm a big pansy so Nancy does mine. :lol It's important for the iron to be very hot so you don't have to keep it on there long and the heat doesn't go deep.


----------



## Fly to the Moon (Sep 11, 2010)

Thank you everyone! I feel a bit reassured. But...



> I've only had to give Banamine a couple times ever and I think that may have been to bucklings who got the double whammy (banded, too).


Now I have another question I think I'll ask separately.


----------



## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

My understanding is that with Nubians and Boers, the cut an X and pop off the horn bud method will work. These breeds, you can disbud as late as 2 weeks and be fine. Swiss breeds need to be done sooner, particularly bucks. I did my first disbuddings last year (2 bucklings), after watching my vet to several. (I've also had to take other goats that I purchased to her to do surgery on, and I recommend avoiding that route if at all possible!) I did the boys at 3 days old--shaved the heads and did the figure 8 method. I was nervous about it, because my vet did a few for me last year, and burned down to the bone and all the way across the middle and there were still a few scurs on a buck. I only went to copper rings, as the boys I did were probably going to be meat after breeding season anyhow. The first one I did, I hear has a decent scur but keeps it knocked off. The other one I did has a few slivers. All things considered (bucks, my first attempt, not being terribly aggressive with it), I would say it was successful. It took me a couple years to get comfortable enough to try and my husband, who held them while I shaved and burned, says the vet can do the rest of them because he doesn't want to be a part of any more!  I hear that LaMancha horns can be more stubborn than Swiss breeds?


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

The root doesn't grow in an X, so why and X? The root is a round cap, that as the kid ages grows into the skull, why in reality after popping the cap off after the initial burn, we should really be burning then again with a same sized 3/4 inch inside diameter tip that is solid...they aren't cows, who grow horns that are only connected around the outer edge.


----------



## tendermeadowsnigerians (Sep 8, 2010)

Goats and anesthesia dont mix well but kids and anesthesia are worse. We took one doeling to be disbudded, her buds were too big to burn. I paid a lot for this kid and took her to a vet that assured me she had done this hundreds of times. Well they called and told me oops we gave her too much anesthesia, sorry she didnt make it. Never again will I do that.


----------



## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Vicki, I was refering to the cut with the scalpel to open up the horn bud like you have said you've done on some, not burning ??? 

For sedation, my vet uses a mix of ketamine and valium. For surgical dehorning, I don't think she knocks them all the way out even. Certain anesthetic drugs do not do well for goats.


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Oh, sorry Billie, that is just the skin over the top of the bud.


----------



## Oat Bucket Farm (Mar 2, 2009)

I agree, disbudding sounds a lot worse when you are reading it than it really is when you see it in person.


----------



## NWgoats (Jul 17, 2008)

I have had several kids done by my vet. She anesthetizes them with the gas mask. 
So far, no ill effects or dead kids. (Or scurs, either) However, it costs a small fortune.

Unfortunately, the gal that did mine last year has since sold her goats and equipment.
Was much more cheaper to have her do it, but all the ones I had her do got scurs. And
two of them regrew actual horns. She said it was because her Nubians were easier to
do than my Alpines. The Alpines and Nigerians seem to be a bit more difficult to disbud.

Don't know what I am going to do this year. I only have until end of Feb. to decide (or
save enough to have the vet do it. :sigh)


----------



## Fly to the Moon (Sep 11, 2010)

Oh, Nicole, I'm sorry. 

How long does it take the cap to fall off? I've never heard of burning again after that. Not that I've been around enough to have heard of it.

Michele, do you mind sharing what the vet charges?


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

We have re-burned bucks Ann Marie when ever it is obvious that we failed to kill the whole horn bed. 
This can be any time the horn bud can fit under the cap on the iron. It's just easier to restrain them when they are younger. So any time you feel like the job is not complete- do it again! I know an Alpine breeder that uses the calf tip on her bucks and makes a wound all the way across their head that looks monstrous but she has smooooth headed bucks which in Alpines is a trick.


----------



## NWgoats (Jul 17, 2008)

The wound that is left after the vet does them is awful looking as well.
First time I saw it I freaked out thinking she had scarred them for life.
However, I put some burn gel on it and next day it didn't look any worse
than when the non-vet did it. 

It costs me $85.00 per goat. But, I refuse to have horned goats and I
can't/won't do it myself, so..... But she also charges $24.50 for a fecal!
(Thank goodness I learned to do those myself.)


----------



## Laverne (Apr 4, 2010)

Michele, I don't know how far you are from N. Portland but Olivia here http://www.capriola.webs.com/ does disbudding.


----------



## NWgoats (Jul 17, 2008)

Unfortunately, it is a two hour drive from here to there. Four hour round trip.
Not really worth it for anyone, especially for just a couple of kids at a time.
I only have the two does bred, one due in March and the other in May.


----------



## Loden Farms (Dec 21, 2010)

Just a thought, but what about putting them in a disbudding box, vet wrapping their ears to their necks/head somehow (to keep their ears away from the area if they start shaking their head), and using the caustic paste? You are only suppose to leave it on for a certain amount of time (can't remember how long) and then wipe and rinse with vinegar. Just a thought, but that might work and it sure would be cheaper in the long run! Our local feed store had a small bottle of it for $5 and I had thought about doing that with a little buckling of mine (before I ended up selling him first)


----------



## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

You have to leave that paste on for awhile. Longer than you'd want to leave them in a box.


----------



## Twillingate Farm (Oct 26, 2007)

We used to use a yellow spray (Furazol) to cool the skull after disbudding but can't find it anymore... what do you folks use and where do you buy it from?

Incidentally, we had a similar incident where a veterinary hospital tried to remove some horns from one of our favorite bucks and he too died during surgery from anesthesia overload... they really don't take well to anesthesia!


----------



## Jryan (Nov 30, 2010)

Twillingate Farm- not sure where you are but they still sell the Furazone spray here if you're talking about the same thing I'm thinking of. Looks like yellow spray paint?? We use it on our horses sometimes for scrapes they come in with. 
Might try it on the kids we disbud this year if you think it did a good job.


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Furlizolodone has been off the market, first it was furox than fural and now even my vet can't get it anywhere. We tried the alusheild, but spraying aluminum and it coats, which means the area doesn't breath, don't like it at all. Alot of the other spray disenfectants that are aresole have oils in them that also seal the area. I am using purple wound spray until I can find a non oily aresole, because I don't really use it to disenfect, more than to cool the area quickly and keep it dry, why I liked the powdery fural so well!


----------



## Fly to the Moon (Sep 11, 2010)

If the object is just quick cooling, not disinfecting, wouldn't an ice pack be just as good? I'd suggest alcohol in a spray bottle, that evaporates fast, but not sure if it would sting. Guess not if the nerves are dead from burning...


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

I am going to have to disagree with the don't take to anesthesia stories. I am sorry you lost your animals but it is incompetence only. Those vets are just not familiar with goats. I have done over 100 disbuddings under sedation with not one minute of problem and I have several goat pals that have done far more than I have over a period of about 6 years with 0 losses for all. I am not recommending it to anyone-you need training and access to RX. I am just telling you it is the vet and not the goat. Antidotes and reversals are readily available and it is just shoddy that they could not figure dosage and get it right. 
Lee


----------



## Twillingate Farm (Oct 26, 2007)

Well, a good friend of mine is planning on using "canned air" as in the stuff used to clean computer keyboards etc. The only problem I see with that is that certain chemicals, such as fluorocarbon, halons, carbon tetrachloride and methyl chloroform are found in canned air dusters. I don't know if these would cause an adverse reaction to the wound. I'm trying to find a safe and effective coolant for use after the dastardly act is committed.

Vicki, I saw that AluShield at Tractor Supply and seriously considered buying some because it claims to be a dressing that allows the wound to breathe. Some folks are using the Fight Bac teat spray but I don't know how effective it is at cooling, or if it breathes.

Jryan, where do you buy the Furazone spray? I'm going to have to look it up online and see if it's the same stuff we used to use. All I can find is an ointment.

Thanks all for your input on this!


----------



## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Yes, Lee, not just dosage, but the wrong anesthetics for goats, too. :/


----------



## nitrospeed16 (Aug 25, 2010)

stoneyheightsfarm said:


> Yes, Lee, not just dosage, but the wrong anesthetics for goats, too. :/


I've had 3 or 4 goats that have gone through anesthesia with no bad outcomes. I don't think its so much the drugs themselves (Isoflurane is a fairly safe anesthetic for general anesthesia, xylazine is another common sedative used in goats.) but the lack of knowledge of goats in general when it comes to vets. It could be other issues as well behind it, however, if it were only the drugs themselves then I doubt mine would have made it through with no issues. I take my animals to a 5 doctor practice, and of those, only one is skilled/knowledgable about small ruminants. I have yet to find another vet in my area that knows even a small amount about goats. However, that could also be due to the area where I live.

That being said, I don't use anesthesia when disbudding goats. Mainly due to the cost, but also because I do feel like its an added risk to a "simple" procedure. I think most of us are fooling ourselves to state that the kids "feel no pain", or for only a short time. If you believe that, you either aren't disbudding correctly or just aren't paying attention. I'm sure lidocaine could be used to block out some of the pain, but again this is probably cost prohibative and personally, I have no experience using it when disbudding.


----------



## NWgoats (Jul 17, 2008)

My vet does most of her disbuddings under anesthesia. So far, she says she has not lost
one yet. 

As for using the Fight bac, it would cool and disinfect, but I don't know about the breathe
part. It contains glycerin. I know when I miss the teat and hit a leg, that leg seems to attract
dirt (sticks to the glycerin). JMO


----------



## Aja-Sammati (Oct 26, 2007)

One of my vets raises saanens and does all of her kids under anesthesia- she doesn't like to listen to screaming  Seriously, learning to disbud isn't that big of a deal, I'd be happy to teach someone how to do it, kidding starts in early Feb, and you can drive on up, Ann Marie (only 30 minutes from Red Bluff). 

I use AluShield, I haven't had any problems with it breathing- it doesn't stay a 'solid' barrier unless you apply it every day. I think the purple stuff is too messy/runny. A lot of what poeple use is just personal preference, not firm science, just like everything else to do with goats. I know people that use fight bac, bactine, blu-cote, scarlet oil, alushiled, and nothing at all!


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

What about breathing in the fumes from alushield?

To me it's crazy to spend money to disbud, it's such a simple procedure, but then I know folks who take their pups to the vet for shots or have their dogs sedated or on 'happy' pills to go to a vet to have their toenails clipped. And as I have said before I don't like perpetuating on this forum that all of what we do routinely isn't something that can't be done by a 12 year old child, and on dairies is done by 12 year old children, including disbudding, tattoing, fecal sampling and pulling their own goats blood, and bolusing Women have a really hard time with anything new, it's in our genes to be needy and it's in our bringing up to have lowered self esteeme. Thankfully my mom raised horses and rarely used a vet so I grew up knowing that women could do anything they want, can learn or can pay a man to teach her.


----------



## Aja-Sammati (Oct 26, 2007)

I agree totally about everyone (men included I guess ) learning to do all of these things themselves! When I was 15, my mom took me out and showed me how to change oil/tires/check fluids on a car...told me to never depend on a man to do those things for me (or anything at all, actually). My daughter learned to draw blood when she was 13,a nd we make a great blood draw team (I hold, she draws, 'cause she is better at it than I am! In the end, I think most vets appreciate goat owners that know how to do it themselves- I know that when I need to call my vet, he takes me very seriously, because he knows that I know what I am doing/talking about.

I have never even gotten a whiff of alushield when I use it...so I don't know, I guess I could wear a face mask. I am at least 2-3 ft away from their heads when I spray it, at the angle I use. The purple stuff, and even fight bac! all have residual fumes from propellents, also. Industrial hazards!! Just don't let your employees do the spraying!! :laughcry


----------



## Fly to the Moon (Sep 11, 2010)

Aja-Sammati said:


> Seriously, learning to disbud isn't that big of a deal, I'd be happy to teach someone how to do it, kidding starts in early Feb, and you can drive on up, Ann Marie (only 30 minutes from Red Bluff).


I'd love to come up and play with babies and learn some stuff! Thank you!


----------



## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Vicki, I learn best hands on, which I don't think is a male or female trait. I was raised by a feminazi, and though it took a while to get the courage to take a hot iron to a screaming squirmy head, or stick a needle in a jugular vein, I assure you it has nothing to do with my neediness or self esteem!  I have a hilarious video clip to share with you picking on feminists. :biggrin 

Rebecca, yes, there are some anethetics that goats should not get. I couldn't tell you which, but I could ask and find out.


----------



## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

"feminazi" LOL 
..."it's in our genes to be needy"...I don't know about that...if that were the case, most women I know would be in bad shape indeed, seeing as how most women are the ones giving, teaching, nurturing, etc. in the family setting anyway. Most humans can be a bit leery of learning new skills, but disbudding is one of dozens that you need to know about when you have goats.


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

I think women were trained to be needy because otherwise why would they put up with men? 
Who needs em except for heavy lifting :rofl


----------



## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

:rofl


----------



## Twillingate Farm (Oct 26, 2007)

Nope! After penning a fine piece on sexist behavior, I've decided I'll leave you girls to wallow in your self images. :really

I'm not going to go there! uh uh.... :rofl


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Well I can go there because Squidge and I have been a 24/7 two piece snak pack for decades!


----------



## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

I am looking forward to the day when Mike and I are a 24/7 two piece snak pack. Right now, we're missing the 24/7 part of it.  But decades, we got.


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Ummmm...I can bust some of you just with old posts when you were new  It's alot of work, and was alot of work to get some of you to try different things, to stand up for yourself...I don't think I need to go on  HA! My biggest role on this forum is supporting actress....you can do it! Go for it! Promise! And my husband calls me his little feminist nazi.

Now Alan, we love men, we need men, we can't live without ya Alan! You are the wind beneath our wings...blah blah blah.....V


----------



## NWgoats (Jul 17, 2008)

My aunt always tells the men in our family that they are there to
"fetch and tote" and not talk back. I was raised to do for myself,
the only time any man helps me is if I "can't" do it for strength 
reasons. (And most of the time I am smart enough to figure out
how to do stuff without brute strength. Planning for if I don't
have anyone around to rely on for help.) :biggrin


----------



## Ozark Lady (Mar 21, 2010)

Okay, what is a 24/7 two piece snak pack?
I have been married to hubby for omg 34 years. He is definitely a keeper, he is the other half of me. I can do lots of things myself, but why would I want to when I can do things with his company?

Talk about a bleeding heart. My baby goats have horns! I don't disbud, nor even have them disbudded. And that is why I don't raise pigs anymore.. I couldn't cut off the tails! I can give shots, reluctantly, and I can do internal exams if I must, and pull kids etc. But castrating is job for the vet, and horns are left on them. What a wimp I am! But horns are so pretty! So handy to grab hold of! I just like them, and really I have seen no reason to remove them. I have heard all the reasons why, just it hasn't been a problem for me.


----------



## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Vicki, old posts when I was new and pregnant and overly hormonal are *totally* off limits.  Annnnd.... so are posts when I was new and just completely squashed by a crazy woman. Which would make just about every post when I was new. LOL! You know I'm just teasing you because I love you.  Who else would work so hard to get us to try new things?! 

For the record, I am totally okay with disbudding now, but my husband wants me to take them to the vet because it makes him turn green!


----------



## Tracy in Idaho (Oct 26, 2007)

I like the Alushield myself....and dang it - I think I need to get a new can. Missed that on my last Jeffers order.

And - "I only need a man for the things a mans good for" Some of you will know what song that's from  
I said it the other day and my hubby says, "Yeah, you don't want to limp or look sick around here for very long." LOL


----------



## sarafina (Dec 26, 2009)

I don't have goats yet, so I just lurk and learn from you guys, but this post brought me out of lurk-dom LOL.

I am a beekeeper and my hubbie is always saying "I better do X or you will be pulling my wings off and kicking me out of the hive". That is what the "girls" do in the hive for the winter. All the drones (males) are kicked out of the hive to die and if they don't leave they will pull their wings off and throw them out the front door! :twisted

The females do all the work - nurse the young, gather pollen and nectar, fan the nectar into honey, take care of the queen, defend the hive (the drones do not even have stingers). The drones get fed and pampered and have only one job to do if they need to make another queen. Once winter appraoches they can't afford to waste precious honey stores to keep then alive, so they get the boot.

One of the funniest posts I saw on a beekeeper board was someone posted they saw a drone being kicked out with a tiny remote and beer can in his hands... :rofl


----------



## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

> Okay, what is a 24/7 two piece snak pack?


Well, my interpretation of it (which may not be Lee's) is this: you know how you see those snak packs that are a piece of cheese and a piece of salami or jerky or somesuch? Good individually, but better together? The two components are different and each brings something unique to the combination, and they bring something out of the other that you don't notice otherwise. They are fine by themselves, but together, they are more than the sum of the parts. That's what I think of a good marriage. As for the 24/7 part, Lee and her husband are retired for their "regular" jobs and work together in their home/farm based business.


----------



## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

"One of the funniest posts I saw on a beekeeper board was someone posted they saw a drone being kicked out with a tiny remote and beer can in his hands.."
LOL!


----------



## DostThouHaveMilk (Oct 25, 2007)

stoneyheightsfarm said:


> For the record, I am totally okay with disbudding now, but my husband wants me to take them to the vet because it makes him turn green!


 Then have him go in the house. 
I do the disbudding on my own...for the most part. I've had a friend over to help and taught a couple of others how to disbud. I don't own a box. I just drape them over my lap and grasp their front legs between my legs. I end up bruised, but better a few bruises when they are younger than the nightmare horns cause around here.
Dad has offered to help but I can't figure out how to have anyone help when I disbud. Except to help catch kids.
Now calves I usually require help with. If only to get them to hold still.


----------

