# Trainwreck



## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

Well we have had our first trainwreck of the season. Magnolia was overdue and finally went into labor. After making sure she was dialated we had the head and front two feet presented properly. After serveral hours of trying to pull the kid, we finally pushed it back in, brought one foot and the head through and delivered an 8.5 pound doe kid. The kid was dead. :sigh It is now almost midnight, and I am waiting on her to pass her afterbirth or another kid. I hope this is the worst of the season and there are no more trainwrecks ahead.


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## Whitney (Oct 27, 2007)

I'm sorry you lost the kid. I hope the rest of the birth turns out well for you.


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## Aja-Sammati (Oct 26, 2007)

Grrr- how frustrating! I am sorry for the loss, Tim.


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## Guest (Feb 20, 2008)

Tim,
If it was hard on momma goat, I would give her something for energy and possibly go in and see if there were any more kids in there.. I would not wait too long if nothing shows... 
Barbara


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## Guest (Feb 20, 2008)

Oh me :down......sorry about this troubles. I am glad that you posted to let us know. It lets us newbies get a better understanding that this kinda thing can happen to even someone with as much experience as you have.

Hope your doe is OK....and the rest from here on out is a cake walk.

Whim


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Gosh Tim Sorry to hear this, how is everything this morning?


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## Ravens Haven (Oct 26, 2007)

So sorry you lost the kid..yes please keep tell how everything is this morning?


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## Qvrfullmidwife (Oct 25, 2007)

what do you think caused the problem? We had one kidding so far this year where we could NOT get the kid to come out any way other than head and one leg. Try as I might I could not reach teh other leg, in fact the thought ran through my head more than once that maybe the kid didnt HAVE a right front leg because it was so hard to reach and movee! DO you think that perhaps the two legs were from two diff kids?

I am so sorry...this is just...ick.


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## SherrieC (Oct 26, 2007)

sorry Tim How dissapointing, I am holding my breath this year with all the problems I've been hearing


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## Odeon (Oct 26, 2007)

What a shame! With your doe kid, and Tracy's aborted quads, I hope this isn't a hint of what this kidding season will hold! We had triplets last night (all bucks). From what I am hearing, it it sounding like a buck year to boot!

Sorry for your loss, I hope the doe is doing well.

Ken


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## VickiLynne (Feb 8, 2008)

Very sorry Tim


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

Oh, Tim, I'm sorry for the loss. :down

I agree Ken. It's not looking good for us. I lost my best Obie doe to a uterine tear but did get two live kids. No other milkers fresh, and having to milk the jersey every day. At least it's not powdered milk! :sigh

Tracy, when you put in that order for Goldfish...count me in, if one more thing goes wrong!
Kaye


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## Qvrfullmidwife (Oct 25, 2007)

We also had Lynn in TX have trainwrecks, dead kids and some deformities. 

Every kidding we have had so far has needed some degree of help, the worst being the huge (for this line) buck kid that we had to deliver one leg back because none of us simply cold do anything and kid was already breathing half out so it isnt as if we could push it back in...we bought the buck to add size to our LM...but now I am quaking in my boots wondering if we did the right thing. It turned out OK with this one older deepr larger doe...what are we going to see with the FF?!


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## goatmom (Oct 26, 2007)

Tim - so sorry about the doe kid -hope the rest of your night went better.


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## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

Well, last night was one of desperation. Somebody was going to die and we knew it. The kid was stuck in the doe and if it stayed there - the doe dies. If we get it out, maybe both will live. There was a moment that I actually thought of shooting the doe and cutting out the kid but it was just a passing thought but it shows how desparate I had become. I have never had this thought before. Magnolia is a fabulous doe and probably my favorite. 

The kid's head would hang up on the ring of the womb and would not come any further. Finally we pushed the kid all the way back in except for one foot. Got the other front leg in a rear-ward position and brought the head through with one single foot. 

Magnolia won't eat today and although she does stand and walk- her back legs don't function right as yet. She has improved since last night though. I gave her some oral calcium but will start her on some CMPK as soon as my wife gets back from town with it. Town is 20 miles away.

I have given her some B Complex and some banamine.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Oh my goodness!! what a nightmare sure hope she will be OK and snap out of it. If you have prep H it really helps with the swelling and numbs it also.


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

Tim, so sorry to hear that you lost Magnolia's doe kid. Will be praying hard that Magnolia will recover fully for you. Seems like these things always happen to our best or our favorites!


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## Narrow Chance (Oct 29, 2007)

Okay.. NOW I'm nervous. I feel for you Tim.. I truely do. It's a helpless feeling when you don't know what to do.. and can't do what you know to do. 
I have 5 due to kid starting this weekend.. and they are hugh. I just hope everything goes okay. Three are first fresheners. 
Here's praying you have easier kiddings.. and that you have had your share of trainwrecks.
And yes.. Magnolia is an awesome doe. Hope she gets to feeling better!!!

Rett


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## Tracy in Idaho (Oct 26, 2007)

Man, I tell you -- goldfish look better and better every year.

I just heard that Sandy R had a doe need a c-section last night  2 dead bucklings.

I don't know what the heck is going on this year, but I wish it would quit! Sorry about the doeling, Tim, but glad you still have the doe.

Now I could use a buck year actually -- have a lot of orders in for them, and I don't want to keep nearly as many doelings as I have in the past. I told everyone that if they wanted to talk me out of a doeling, this is the year to hit me up for one, lol.

Tracy


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## LynninTX (Oct 25, 2007)

Oh Tim I am so sorry to read this!

Yep bad yr here too...  And all my FF to go including a much anticipated kidding AND my best doe.... 

LA... you just can't know. It is amazing to see what some goats who are SMALL can kid out easily or easily enough... vs what a regular size might have trouble with. I think just like human females... it is hard to tell. 

Babee is narrow... you saw her... but she kidded out 9 & 10lb kids last yr with just some *traction*.... Karat a little MM (did you ever see her?) she looked for all the world like a ND... kidded a 9lb buck last yr unattended! Ginger narrow did the same as a FF... yet the one I had to really pull with this yr was an 8lb of of an avg sized 2nd freshner....


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Fingers in ears...blah blah blah blah, I am not listening to all of you!

Sorry Tim! Ric has had all bucks and 2 doelings, and 2 that had vet intervention, one at 3am. So it's going around. But it will be all over in March when I kid out 

I have added grain slower than I ever have with how big all the girls are, just don't need large kids...but the rest is the luck of the draw, at least with a 2 year old grandson bothering the old girls twice a day they certainly are getting enough exercise.

Hope Magnolia turns around for you, what a beautiful doe. Vicki


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## Guest (Feb 20, 2008)

Fingers in ears here also, my first kidding is due this next weekend and you all are scaring me with the horrible stories.. My kiddings are going to go so smooth and easy, no trainwrecks and all does except for the buck that I do want.. So there take that ...LA La la la la la la 
Barbara


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## DostThouHaveMilk (Oct 25, 2007)

Does it help that it hasn't been all that bad here this year as far as deliveries go?
We've kidded out 30 full term does and I only had to seriously correct one malpresentation. Even with the abortions the does delivered with little issues.
I hope there are no more issues as the other 15-20 kid out here starting anyday now.

Tim, I'm sorry about the doe. There have been times when I have been worried about wether the kid would ever come out.


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## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

Well I think the kid had died some hours or a day before the day of birth and that's why the birth was slow and then difficult. Right now, I need to do everything to bring this doe around. 
She is eating hay but not her ration. I did put down her 90 CC of sugar syrup and then when I got the CMPK, I gave her 120 CC of that. We will give her some more tonight. 

Here's what I have given so far. BO-SE, VIT B Fortified, Fast track, 

She is starting to dodge me when I come in to medicate her.

Don't worry about your kids - it is going to be a good year! In October - I had 5 first fresheners who popped kids out one after another.


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## Truly (Oct 26, 2007)

I am so sorry for your hard night Tim.

I hope your doe does well. Did she come into milk?


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

Tim,
Keep her on the banamine for a few more days. I'd 1/2 dose it AM-PM just to ease the pain enough to get her to eat some grain. 1/2cc-100#. Banamine is also a smooth muscle relaxer and will help with some of the swelling inside. Got any Dexamethasone?
Kaye


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## pettigrewfarms (Nov 14, 2007)

Sorry to hear of the loss of the doe kid hope the doe gets better


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## KUrby (Oct 27, 2007)

Awh Tim I am sorry to hear of your loss as well. No advice I can give, but I will tell you this much. Both my fingers are in my ears as this will be my first time kidding! 
La la la la la la la 
can't hear you...
Karen


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## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

Sorry this was such a mess for you Tim. Losing kids is tough, but having a sick doe just adds insult to injury. Hoping that Magnolia comes around soon.
(she would be your favorite). We lost Una in 2006 (10th place yearling milker 2005 Nationals) because there was an enormous buck stuck. I was pregnant and DH had worked with her over an hour. tried pushing that kid back and repositioning. No go. Finally DH said, "Either we get this kid out or we'll lose them both". Used pure physical strength to pull a 15 lb. buck with an absolutely enormous head - alive. Successfully delivered a lovely doeling. the buckling died overnight and Una never really recovered (she was soooo swollen inside and out. Had the vet come and do an ultrasound.) Finally put her down a few months later when it became obvious she was no longer enjoying herself. I pray we never see a delivery like that again. (In hindsight, yes, a C-section was in order, but by the time we realized it, we were a good 1 1/2 hours from getting a vet here, especially 10 P at night.) 

My sympathy to Kaye as well. Hopefully the kids will be as promising as their dam. 

Kidding season is always so much joy (especially the small fry) and much trepidation (for me and my oldest DD - we know too much!) and occasional sorrow.
Honestly I am much happier when kidding season is over. Keep your chins up everyone!

Camille 
P.S. Sorry for your loss too Tracy. I guess I just totally missed that post.


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## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

Kaye,
As a matter of fact, I do have some Dex - didn't think about that... How much and how long? Thanks for the thought on Banamine - that's a great idea. And yes Truly, she is making lots of milk, but I only took about a quart today - just to keep her easy. I don't want to pull more energy from her than necessary right now.


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

Dex...1cc/50# twice a day for 1st day...then drop her to 1cc/50# once a day for 3 days. Continue the banamine at the same time...yeah, I know you're not suppose to give the two together...but in this case do it.

Main thing now is take down the swelling around the nerves causing the weakness and pain to get her going again.
Contact me if you need any more info.
Kaye


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## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

Well, she's still up and going and getting stronger. I wouldn't say out of the woods but closer to the edge tonight. She is nibbling some grain and eating hay. I am still giving meds, CMPK, Dex, Ban etc.


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## pokyone42 (Oct 26, 2007)

sorry Tim. hope mama does okay.......had our first dead kid this year. Was very hard............fully formed, beautiful doe............. then a live doe kid! WOW! mom got very sick, but recovered............I wish you luck........


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## Katarina (Oct 25, 2007)

Tracy in Idaho said:


> Man, I tell you -- goldfish look better and better every year.


When you get ride of your goats and get your goldfish, I'll send you a get well card! 

I am sorry Mr. Pruitt about the loss of you doeling! I hope that Magnolia gets better soon!


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## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

Yes, Magnolia is a pretty girl. Sorry you lost her doe kid. She should come around for you with your good nursing care. Hope you don't have any more kidding troubles.


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## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

Well, yesterday Huckberry Frost popped out two boys like a piece of cake - out of curosity I weighed the smaller kid and he was 10.5 pounds. That seems to confirm my suspicion that Magnolia's kid was dead and that is why the slow birth and a more difficult delivery. 

Any way, Magnolia is slowly recovering. More fight in her today when I give the oral cmpk, more bites of feed, and she is eating hay with more relish and of course, I am continuing to medicate her.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

OH that sounds good!! and congrats on your newbies.


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## Narrow Chance (Oct 29, 2007)

Okay Tim, and the rest of you guys with trainwrecks.. I have literally plugged my ears.... singing... well.. thankful blessings is more like it.
Had an awful trainwreck last night.. into the morning. First freshener.. had a bundle of triplets.
After working for hours.. I finally got a turned around kid.. turned some. Was back first.. or so I could tell.. I've never been this confused on what was what. I couldn't find anything but backbone and one foot. Anyway.. after sitting on the ground.. I ask the Lord to do what he willed..but to please help me. I went back in.. got one leg out.. then by all miracles.. a head came from nowhere. Got her out.. and was a fight to get her to breath.. but she did. Out pops a buck.. and a few minutes later.. I had to pull the third. 
I am one tired old woman.. but thrilled with 3 beautiful kids and mom is doing well.. dispite being a pin cushion.(antibiotics, banamine).
These were my first kids from our new buck, Kastdemur's Full Breeze.. needless to say.. we are thrilled. 
So.. here's hoping my trainwrecks have happened and the rest will be easy.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Geeze Rett were you and Whim in the same barn?? He just got thru one bad night with triplets also and all living.


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## andiplus5 (Feb 14, 2008)

:down So sorry for all the losses in this thread. Wow, what a hard time Tim. I'm glad your doe is doing better. This is our first kidding season and our first due date is next week. Crossing my fingers, because if anything goes wrong, I don't know what to do. I have no experience at this and now I think I'm freaking out...yikes. 

Andi in OK


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## Narrow Chance (Oct 29, 2007)

Sondra.. If Whim was in this barn.. he would have been elbow deep in doe grease... :rofl
I just could not imagine trying to turn or get out ND babies... :crazy

How's the status on dem babies Whim???


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## LMonty (Oct 25, 2007)

Gosh, guys, sorry to heear of the trainwrecks. Condolences. Hope Magnolia and the rest are doing better soon.


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## Corky (Oct 26, 2007)

Tim, the only thing I might add here is when my does are having a tough time and not eating good I give the paste probios before every feeding till they get back on track. They love the stuff and it really seems to help. I just give about an inch of the stuff.
Especially if I am giving lots of shots and cmpk.


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## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

Thanks for the suggestion Corky. Today, Magnolia was able to leave the kidding pen. She is getting around good and can jump on the stand. She is not eating with relish but does eat hay and picks at her ration. She is outside in the sunshine and was eating any green grass she could find. 
Rhett I am glad that you got through your train wreck and Whim, I hope you are not a wreck with those Nigerians. That would have to be a nightmare.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Oh Tim so glad she feels like getting out, the sunshine will help.


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## stacy adams (Oct 29, 2007)

Good Grief! I hate when I'm so swamped at work I just about come home to crash.. sorry for the loss of your doeling Tim, I was just commenting to my DH about what a lovely doe! Glad to hear she's feeling better.. 
And geeeze Whim, I bet your tired too! 
I'm hoping that next month will be a pink month and things will go smoother!! yea~!


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## Aja-Sammati (Oct 26, 2007)

Gosh- after reading about all the wrecks, and talking with other friends with wrecks this year, I am not going to care about pink or blue, just safe kiddings and healthy mamas will be a happy thing!


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2008)

:biggrin Hey now....these are gonna be all the train wrecks that we are gonna have this year. It stops right here, right now.
The rest are gonna come spitting out of there like a prune eating pig on exlax. :yeahthat

Whim


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## Aja-Sammati (Oct 26, 2007)

:rofl Thanks Whim!! I am going to tell the goat girls...


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## Sheryl (Oct 27, 2007)

Oh my :rofl :rofl whimmy ya gonna make me wet myself!!!! :rofl


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## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

Thanks for all of the well wishers for Magnolia. She continues to improve and is almost 100% well now. I am hoping she will recover well enough to show this year. I am still hoping to go to the Nationals.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Wonderful news!!


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## Corky (Oct 26, 2007)

Thats Great! 
:handclap


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