# Bred too soon



## ladyliane (Aug 21, 2014)

My bucklings jumped the fence!!! One of my does that I wasn't going to breed this year is very much in heat and has been hanging out in the buck area since yesterday. The temptation was too much for my bucklings and they jumped the fence (they were in a pen separate from my breeding bucks and I thought it was too high to jump...obviously I was wrong :-( ). That doe is their mom/grandma so that is bad enough, but what makes me sick is I also saw them mounting one doeling (my favorite) and another's tail was wet...both are too small for breeding. I feel sick!!! I'm so scared I'm going to lose my favorite doeling :-(. I moved the bucklings so it cannot happen again and called the vet. He suggested giving them Lute in 2 weeks to abort. Has anyone had any problems with this? Also, I have no idea how long the boys were out in the pasture with the girls before we saw them. They were going crazy, trying to get as many as they could. We have 6 doelings they could have gotten--one I was going to breed to our Nigerian in Dec., the rest weren't going to bred this year. We only saw them mounting one and suspect another one...should we give them all Lute just to be on the safe side?


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## alpineestates (Apr 16, 2014)

I have limited experience, but I think it would be reasonable to see which ones come into heat in the next 21 days. Lute whichever ones don't to be on the safe side. Maybe some with more experience will weigh in. Good luck.


Alpines: 2 does, 1 buck, and 1 wether. Grifton, NC Davon


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

How big are the doelings? How much do they weigh and how old. If they are at least 80 lbs, I wouldn't worry about it too much, just write down the date and you could blood test to see if they really are bred. It would be safe to wait to 30 days post their possible breeding to blood test them for pregnancy check and if you don't want them to be pregnant, lute them at that point. Just be sure there is NO way for bucks to breed at the time you lute them, as they will come into heat.


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## ladyliane (Aug 21, 2014)

They are only around 50 lbs...the one I saw them mate for sure is just barely 7 months..she could be close to 80, but my bucks have always thrown large kids. The only time we ever lost a doe was when we bred her when she was "okay" by normal standards...at least 80 lbs, and over 8 months...but her kid was so large it somehow caused her uterus to dislodge. After that, I only breed after they are at least a year and then we started breeding our FFs to a Nigerian Dwarf to make it even easier on them... 

There is zero chance of a buck getting them now...we moved them out of the pasture entirely...


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## Nubians (Oct 29, 2014)

A couple of our does got bred really young, same age as your girls. They were small, too.
One got bred to a Boer the other to an Alpine. They did fine and had their babies okay. The one had twins the other a single.


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

I had one of my does get bred on the small side last year...she wasn't really too young (just at a year when she kidded), but she is one of my smaller does (Nubian X Pygmy, and still only weighs about 70 pounds), and she was bred by a Nubian buck. She delivered and dam raised triplets without any assistance whatsoever. Not that I would want to do that again, but still.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

At that size, I wouldn't let them keep their pregnancies if they are.

That seems pretty small for 7 month olds. Are you using a coccidia preventive? How long do you keep them on milk and what else are you feeding? I realize alpines are generally bigger than lamanchas, but my alpine kids are 90-100 lbs at 7 months. Full size dairy kids should gain a minimum of 10 lbs a month, so yours should be at least 70 lbs plus their birth weight.


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## ladyliane (Aug 21, 2014)

Mine are dam raised and are not removed until it's time to dry up their dams. They are also kept on Bermuda grass pasture and are fed alfalfa twice a day. The one that is 7 months old is probably close to 80 lbs, but the others are only 6 months old. None have worms or coccidiosis. They are very healthy and are at great sizes for Lamanchas (per the vet). Mine tend to reach their full maturity around 15-18 months which is why I don't follow the 8 months/80 pounds rule. My adult does are only 130-135 pounds.


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## ladyliane (Aug 21, 2014)

The charcoal/white one is the one we caught "in the act". Chances are good she is big enough to survive, but I don't want to risk it. The others look similar in size, but they are over a month younger and are at least 20 pounds less...


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Wow, those bucks cleared that fence?! That's pretty amazing!


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## LittleBits (Aug 6, 2013)

I would not wait a month to lute them, at this size I would give them lute 14 days from the oops breeding. When you lute at 14 days, all they do is come back into heat, thats it. If you lute later, there will be some bloody discharge. 
The larger doe kid would probably be fine if she kept growing well enough, but I would just lute them all.


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## ladyliane (Aug 21, 2014)

Sorry, no, not THAT fence...those are my "big boys"...the bucklings cleared a fence about half that height...still came up to my chest, so about a four foot fence, but they climbed it and bent it a bit... :-(. I was still pretty impressed since they aren't full grown either...


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## ladyliane (Aug 21, 2014)

Littlebits, that's the advice my vet gave also... Have you done it before? What I'm not sure about is, should I do the ones I'm not sure they bred just to be on the safe side or will that hurt them somehow???


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## Rose (Oct 26, 2007)

Wait 14 days. 2 cc of Lute per doe.

Not a problem.


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## LittleBits (Aug 6, 2013)

ladyliane said:


> Littlebits, that's the advice my vet gave also... Have you done it before? What I'm not sure about is, should I do the ones I'm not sure they bred just to be on the safe side or will that hurt them somehow???


All the doe kids that he was in with, I would lute, just to err on the side of caution. 
And yep, I've done it many times before. Last fall I had a fiasco of an oberhasli buck sailing the fences to get in with my herd of alpine does. Luted every single one (except for the ones that were bred the week before to the alpine buck), because sometimes they have fast cycles that you don't catch in a 12hr time span.


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## Acheesewiz (Jul 28, 2013)

I had the same problem with all of my "teens". Born last Oct. 2013 they were not kept from the bucks when I was away delivering my grandson. The bucks (called machos here) got with the teens in June 2014, so they were about 8 months old and weigh about 50 lbs. They all just dpdelivered this week, mostly 1 per, the one that had 2 were very small and I didn't think they would make it. All good so far.


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