# overshot and undershot jaws:



## Asian Goats (Feb 12, 2009)

To the best of my understanding,an undershot jaw is better than an overshot jaw.An overshot jaw may mean heavy in-breeding.My question is,if an overshot jaw even "slightly" is a fault and can be passed on to future offspring should such goats be culled for the meat market and not used for breeding.Or to what degree of overshot is acceptable.

Thank-You


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

I personally would cull


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

If you read about Nubian History, we come from teeth showing on the bottom jaw. So it's expected to creep in now and then, especially the more breed character you have in the head. So in breeding Nubians it would be more 'acceptable' to keep something with an undershot jaw. Overshot of the upper jaw is parrot mouth, seen in all breeds and it's hereditary. Like extra teats it's known in some bloodlines, never seen in others. Ironically for my herd the same bloodlines who are now bloodtesting positive for G6S were the same lines I used who had parrot mouth. 

Keeping a doe who can eat well still with a mouth fault, in a dairy situation is totally different than keeping a kid alive with a mouth fault in a breeding herd...she could live and milk on a milkstring for years, or nurse meat kids I suppose, without any of her progeny making it into a home to carry on the fault. So yes we kept them, but no we didn't keep any kids out of them. Vicki


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## Bernice (Apr 2, 2009)

Thats a good question! I personally experienced an overshot mouth from some heavy linebreeding many yrs ago. And this problem came out of a well known Alpine herd. The breeders didn't say anything about that fault. I know they had to know as they inbred and line bred a lot. The buck was born with the overshot but his twin sister didn't have it. I recall thinking at the time, "What the huckleberry is that?" I'd never seen that before with our Nubians, Boers or Alpines. So I asked my, "Alpine Genetics walking encylopedia" and learned that overshot jaws ran in those lines if you line/in breed. 

Speaking of overshot and undershot jaws in Nubians...there was this Nubian goat that a 4-hr used at all the shows here in VA. That doe had undershot jaw but still won somehow. One night while we were at state fair yakking up a storm to well over 3:00 AM I heard this awful snoring. I thought it was my hubby as he snores badly. He was sound asleep on a few bales of straw. When I went to get another drink (you know how some good yakking can be, leaves your mouth dry!) and happened to notice it wasn't him snoring, it was that dag Nubian snoring! And snoring as loud or louder than Nubians usually beller. Heck, my husband doesn't even snore that loud! 

Interesting about your experiences Vicki with the G6S. 

Question Vicki, was G6S known about in the late 80's? You know how it was before the internet.....didn't know much for except what others told you or was in the old DGJ's. The reason I am asking is because we had a Nubian kid that was born in early June of 1991. It was our younger son's herd then and his first Nubian breedings. At that time we had 3 yrs under our belts. I can't remember the dam's bloodlines but remember the sire's: he went back to Lotus Lady. Off the top of my head I remember him as being almost pure white. His long awaited kids arrived and the first one was a doe. I remember that she never grew as much as the other kids did. When I read about G6S yrs later online I wondered if she had that.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

> When I read about G6S yrs later online I wondered if she had that.


I too have wondered about some goats in the past since the spread of the knowledge of G6S.
Does anyone know if any other traits are linked to it?

I had two kids with incorrect ear set (nubian) so they did not hang but flipped back halfway.
Just one ear. They never grew past the size of a weanling altho fat and eventually at about a year old mysteriously just died. It was so odd. They were never particularly ill - ate all the time right up till the end and just sorta faded away but they were definitely way too small for age.

Anyone know of ear set issues? This was early 90's. Longman. sorry this is not about jaws.....
Lee


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## Asian Goats (Feb 12, 2009)

Thank you for all your replies.

Michael


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I am not sure I have seen G6S, but I also ruthlessly culled kids who didn't make their 10 pounds a month weight, so perhaps I culled them to others. I totally can see in the discriptions of them how they sadly were blamed on new people management "no way that came from me" syndrome 

Nope Bernice never heard of anything like that until Dagny Vandish started talking about it. Which was just several years back. I didn't get my Hotmail account to start The Goatshed until 95. Consdiering the testing for G6S is in Texas at the sister labs/univeristy I use for everything else, think I would have at least heard of it before then. Also some are saying that the G6S carriers are also from excellent milking lines.

Nope no ear thing Lee. The miniature status, the slab sided appearance is always the things folk say that made them test and found out they were affected. I have a carrier doe in the herd who is living out her life here kidding for me, her almost yearling daughter is normal as was her sold daughter. I am just going to handle her by testing kids at birth. Vicki


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

One of my does with a nice udder gave birth to twin bucklings. One is black, the other a black roan. At first, I liked the black one better and was going to keep him to use on a couple of my doelings this fall. I then noticed his jaw is undershot. so he will be a wether and I'll keep his brother. Kathie


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