# Minis vs regular size goats



## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

How much feed per doe does a Mini Nubian or Mini LaMancha eat compared to say a standard Alpine or Nubian?

If they give half as much milk do they eat half as much feed?


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## Qvrfullmidwife (Oct 25, 2007)

the line I heard, once upon a time, was 2/3 the milk on 1/2 the feed.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Well I can't tell you much as I run the full size in with the Mini LaMancha but 1 lb of grain per milking is the norm for the Mini except for two of them and they produce more so get abt 1 1/4 lb.


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2007)

If this helps any with your question.......my ND's eat about 1/3 of what my brothers nubian doe's eat.....but I also get about 1/3 the milk .


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## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

So if the minatures give about 1/3 as much and eats about 1/3 as much as a large breed goat, then you are having to milk 3 goats to equal one. You are having to trim 12 feet instead of 4. You are having to vacinate 3 goats instead of one and so on.


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## Good Goats (Oct 26, 2007)

Nope. Our Mini Nubians give the same amount of milk as our standards, yet eat less, of course depending on how 'big' the mini is. We run our few Nubians with our Mini Nubians too, so I couldn't give you an exact amount as to how much hay they actually eat. But, ours give the same amount as our standards. Minis are the way to go for me!

Suriyah


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## Narrow Chance (Oct 29, 2007)

I'm thinking as you Tim...  Each is divided by 4. 
Although.. makes me think about getting smaller ones when one of these big ole Nubies run you into the wall or up agianst a fence when your worming and such. 
I'm getting to old for this.. :goat 
Might have to look into the mini's
Can they be registered?


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2007)

:biggrin Oh Tim; You make it sound like so much more work with these little goats. There are some advantages with these little gals, especially if they are just family milkers. I only need 1/3 the room to keep them is one. If I can't get one to go to where I want him, I just pick him up and put him there. Just 2 of these gals can keep a average family in more milk than they will use. ( Some gals on this forum, won't fall in that average cat. I don't think :crazy). Oh yea, I was about to leave out the best part.......everybody that comes here always says stuff like "oh! they're so cute", "how adorable", and I'd liked to buy a couple from you when they have baby's. Of course, the last line is the best. :goat


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

I really like them because of my age and my ability to handle them some of my mini's milk 1 gal a day and will beat out some of my FB Nubians. I dont' have help when it comes to handling the goats or doctoring so that makes it nice. Especially when you consider my Nubian buck is way bigger than I am. and so are most of the FB does.


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## Little Meadows (Oct 27, 2007)

As far the milking capacity of minis - epecially interested in mini Alpines, does the generation/% matter much, all other aspects being equal? In other words, does the 3rd generation mini produce the milk quantity (on avg.) as the F1? Hope this isn't too stupid a question!


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## Katarina (Oct 25, 2007)

I will say that i am a bit queasy over considering the tighter space to manuever in if i have to help with kidding...


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

That has never been a problem with my MM Kate they are easy kidders. 
Yes I have found as you go up in gen the goat gets smaller and smaller so the capacity for holding milk also gets smaller. My first and 2nd gen milk good and one of the 4rd but beyond that the quanities go down. as with thier size.


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## Good Goats (Oct 26, 2007)

Our Mini Nubians have been very easy kidders, Kate.

Yes, minis can be registered. There are several registries for them. Here are a few:
Miniature Dairy Goat Association (MDGA) - http://www.miniaturedairygoats.com
The Miniature Goat Registry (TMGR) - http://www.tmgronline.org/
International Dairy Goat Registry (IDGR) - http://www.goat-idgr.com/

There's a club for Mini Nubians too - National MiniNubian Breeders Club - http://www.mininubians.com/

Hope this helps,
Suriyah


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## Little Meadows (Oct 27, 2007)

Sondra said:


> That has never been a problem with my MM Kate they are easy kidders.
> Yes I have found as you go up in gen the goat gets smaller and smaller so the capacity for holding milk also gets smaller. My first and 2nd gen milk good and one of the 4rd but beyond that the quanities go down. as with thier size.


It's my understanding that you can't reg. the offspring as "Mini - whatever breed" until the 3rd gen., is that correct? I have 2 Alpines that I plan to breed to a tallish Nigerian Dwarf next fall and I'm trying to figure/talk out all this stuff out first. This year tho I'm milking them thru to see what level of yields they can maintain.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

> It's my understanding that you can't reg. the offspring as "Mini - whatever breed" until the 3rd gen., is that correct? I have 2 Alpines that I plan to breed to a tallish Nigerian Dwarf next fall and I'm trying to figure/talk out all this stuff out first. This year tho I'm milking them thru to see what level of yields they can maintain.


No that is not true they are registered as experimental 1st thru 3rd then if 4th gen conforms to all the standards required they and thier parents are transfered or registered as Americans. Go read the above registries and it tells you exactly. Also if you don't reg the 1st 2nd and 3rd as experimentals you wouldn't be able to reg the 4th or the 3rd as Americans.
Personally if I were just starting out I would reg with TMGR


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

So they eat a third less, milk a third less and sell for a third?? I just don't see how an animal who is smaller is eaiser to deal with than a goat who is taller. We aren't talking a wild nubain vs a tame mini, all things being equal an animal with a higher center of gravity is eaiser to deal with. I would take a 200 pound milker on any day compared to a 90 pound junior doe! And the small teat issue is an issue. Vicki


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Vicki now Albuquerque and her offspring do not have sm teats and neither do some of my other Mini's Al milks 8lb a day her daughter 6lb but Al is much easier for me to handle than is Davinity there is no way in hades I could get Davinity on the stand if she decided she didn't want to go by my self. By the way you have Al's daughter :crazy


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2007)

Vicki..." and sell for a third??"

Are you kiddin !!! Lots of folks are selling these things for more than a big goat. I'm just affraid they'll go the way of the pigmy one of these days and sell for $50. I've got to where I don't even look at the east coast ND's anymore.....most are asking $300 to $450 for just weaned kids......that's a little to pricey for me to even look at.


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## Little Meadows (Oct 27, 2007)

Thanks Sondra for setting me straight!

Liese


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Whim.Vicki is talking abt the mix mini's ND + Full sized. and she is correct 1/3 the price if that. Not a purebred ND. The Mini's tho I love them are not the way to go if you want to sell goats and make any money. But are idea for a small homestead and family milkers.


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## Guest (Nov 11, 2007)

:crazy....I guess I had to much wine to drink :crazy


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

:rofl


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## Qvrfullmidwife (Oct 25, 2007)

The pic in my avatar is our daughter Liberty holding our first Minimancha doe. Tho we focus on our full sized LM, we get so many comments on the minis! I think they really are good for small homesteads, there will def be a good niche market for them.


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

We get alot of interest in our MiniManchas here too. People are quite attracted to them. Can't wait til they kid this spring  We have 2 MM sisters here both now bred to Bandera, LeeAnne and katie's MM buck. All these are 3rd generation so the 2008 kids will be 4th generation.


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## Tricia (Oct 26, 2007)

I know that people say that the minis having few birthing problems, but what do you do when there is a problem? Is there enough hand room through the pelvis?


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Yes I have gone in and turned kids around with no problem BUT I do suggest the same as I would if raising a ND if you don't have small hands then don't get the smaller goats. In otherwords if you have large hands then you better have children or someone to help in emergencies. That being said I had more trouble with a FB big laMancha than I have ever had with one of the mini's


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## Tricia (Oct 26, 2007)

Sondra -- One look at my vet's hands convinced me that I motivate me to do all the intervention I can before turning to him (and he's super).


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Know what you mean Tricia would only go to my vet for cesarean section if needed :lol and he is good too.


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

Well my Minis better not have problems and they won't if they catch sight of my lumber-jack hands coming at them! :crazy


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## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

Tricia Smith said:


> I know that people say that the minis having few birthing problems, but what do you do when there is a problem? Is there enough hand room through the pelvis?


 Ought to try that on Chihuahuas. Talk about no room to maneuver.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

:crazy


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

My friend's two Nigerian does were accidently bred by a Nubian buckling. The youngest was only a year old when she kidded. Both goats had easy deliveries. I bought the youngest one's doeling. She looks more like an airplane eared Nigerian. She has wattles and is just adorable. I just love her personality, but she's sneaky. Three times over the past week, she got out of her pen. We just moved her from the kid pen to the main pen, as I put a Nubian buckling in the kid pen with three doelings. Mimi isn't old enough to breed yet. I still need to figure out where she's getting out. I don't plan to do big scale breeding of minis, but love my little doe.


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## Odeon (Oct 26, 2007)

I am a fairly big guy, and no small hands here. I did have a difficult kidding last spring, so I called my goat-buddy Neighbor, Kim Williams, at 3am! As she was driving over, I picked up the Nigie doe by her back legs and let gravity shift the kids... she had delivered normally by the time Kim had arrived. Not saying I recommend it, but at least with a Nigerian I was able to do it!

Ken


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## Good Goats (Oct 26, 2007)

Minis seem to be one of the easiest kidders.

goatkid - I really like the ones with the airplane ears too (I don't breed for it, but they are so cute!). There have been a few Nigerians that I have heard of who have got bred by Nubian bucks a few times (on accident) and kidded fine. I wouldn't do that kind of breeding myself just because the kidding risk is too big.

Suriyah


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

Odeon said:


> I am a fairly big guy, and no small hands here. I did have a difficult kidding last spring, so I called my goat-buddy Neighbor, Kim Williams, at 3am! As she was driving over, I picked up the Nigie doe by her back legs and let gravity shift the kids... she had delivered normally by the time Kim had arrived. Not saying I recommend it, but at least with a Nigerian I was able to do it!
> 
> Ken


Ken, they are not supposed to come out of their mouth! next time pick them up by the FRONT legs!


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

You beat me to it Diane!!!

I really do think that with good marketing the mini manchas especially could really be in demand for family milkers. I know with just the two I have had from Sondra, everyone loves them, they simply don't get frowned on about their ears like the bigger ones. Vicki


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

Vicki :lol People should be careful making themselves such targets for our witty observations....don't they know we have WORK to do outside??? :sigh


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I know, I was reading the thread standing up waiting for some shea to melt (face cream day) and had to sit down and post! Vicki


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## GallopingGoats (Oct 28, 2007)

But what about the teat size? I hate tiny teats. Shannon


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## Carolyn (Oct 27, 2007)

I have 2nd generation Mini Nubians from Marla, their dams were 3rd generation bred to a 1st generation buck. FF milked out at six and a half lbs and are very easy to milk, nice teats. I have 2 standard sized Nubian does. the minis aren't as small as a Pygmy, but inbetween standard Nubian and pygmy size. But I have young grandchildren and these minis seem to work well with them. We haven't made up our minds yet and will keep both the Minis and the regular sized Nubians. I am looking for a 3rd or 4rd generation buck. Anyone out there have one for sale???? Carolyn


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

some teats are small and some are same size as the FB's you have to do your breeding either to improve on udders and teats or cull which I think would be the same as you would do with FB's 
I have one doe with very tiny teats and if it weren't for the fact that her tiny udder has hidden capacity for large amounts of milk and that she is RGCH and that she is beautiful and produces beautiful kids and that I have a milking machine mainly the milking machine she would be gone.


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

Ok, so my 2 MM are now bred. They will be 2 year old FF. I plan on feeding them coastal hay, browse and a small amount of beet pulp and alfalfa pellets, maybe 1/2-1 lb each (I feed this to the does penned with them but not free-choice, so they get some too).

Since these are Minis, i wonder about feeding them grain towards the end of pregnancy. How much each and how many days prior to delivery...the same as for full-sized...for nutritional reasons or do I have to really watch their weight?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

It should be the same formula as with full sized dairy goats. Start slowly with just an handful of grain at 100 days pregnant until they are at a normal ration the day they kid for a young milker. Vicki


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2007)

Vicki......What do you think the grain amount (daily) should be for a 60 lb. doe , at say due date. I'm getting throwed a little bit by some estimates, and I think it's mostly because we are often talking about very different sizes in goats.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Whim my 60 pound does are 4 and 5 months old 

Here it isn't weight it's age. If you are a 13 month old first freshener, even milking less than another doe, you get alot more grain than a 4 year old 4th freshener milking alot. Takes alot to milk and continue to mature and grow yourself, takes alot less to just milk and keep your weight.

I push alfalfa pellets first and foremost, competetion at the feeders makes them eat more. Then grain is challenge fed...a minimum here is about 1 pound which is for body maintence and for that energy they need pre kidding. Only Shoofly and her fat self milks and only gets 1 pound of grain per day, most get at least 1 pound in the am and 1 pound in the pm. But I don't have any breed leaders here, I want them to milk well, but mostly I want them to look good. So I do keep more flesh on my girls than they need. You will have to figure this out on your own because your roughage may be better or worse than somebody elses. Like my fat issue, if I don't feed some sort of fat to my girls with their alfalfa pellets they will not shave down sleek and pretty skinned in the spring. Vicki


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2007)

To be honest Vicki, I'm wondering if I could just do away with grain altogether during pregnancy with these ND's.....It really don't take much to get them toooo fat. I'm just a little afraid of them lacking in something that they might need from the grain. Right now 'til late spring most of my browse will be gone.....so it's alfalfa pellets, grass hay, and minerals 'til then......well I did plant some small patches of winter grass around in my yards for them to get into, but that will be only in short, supervised trips.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Whim if I still had ND does I would start them the same as my full sized. and they get the grain started at 100 days like 1/2 cup morn and eve gradually increasing till freshening at 1/2 to 1lb same as my mini's I think they need the extra protein that the grain gives them. I did have one ND doe tho that packed on the weight with just alfalfa pellets and hay when dry so she was separated and didn't get all the alfalfa pellets the others did.


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