# Help!! Sick goats! :(



## angelawilliams29 (Feb 18, 2010)

Hello, I am fairly new to goats, as we have 2 does, 1 which we have had for about 7 months now (currently milking her) and the other we've only had about a month (pregnant, due in 3 weeks). We have never had any illness or anything go wrong, until 2 days ago. Both goats got into our chicken pen and ate the scratch and laying pellets. I have no idea how much they ate--quite a bit, I'm guessing. Especially our milk goat. (both full-blooded Nubians, btw.) Well, yesterday morning was when we first noticed they weren't wanting to eat, and they both had diahrrea all over them. They wouldn't drink anything, & we removed all feed (which they hadn't eaten any of since the night before anyway.) I set out baking soda, as told to do. They didn't touch it. Well, last night, they were both extremely sick, grinding teeth, laying down, not taking anything in. I read all I could online, called everyone I knew who knew anything about goats, called the vet, etc....not really expecting them to make it through the night from the way they looked & what everyone said. We gave them a little pepto last night by syringe. This morning, they were still alive, surprisingly. Our milker is laying down, just pitiful looking. We've given her almost a whole bottle of pedialyte by syringe, and 1 syringe of milk of magnesia. I have a call into the vet to see if I can get some CD/T Antitoxin, antihistimine tablets, banamine, enterotoxemia antitoxin, after reading on here about bloat...but, now I'm really wondering what the deal even is. She doesn't look to be bloated to me. The pregnant doe seems to be doing better than this one. She is actually up and walking around, drinking some water, and eating a tiny bit of hay. Definitely not back to normal, but better than the other one. I don't know if it really is bloat (they've both been grinding their teeth.), or what it could be. I don't want to keep trying tons of things that may not even be helping them. Can you PLEASE give me ANY info??!! Thank you so much!!! P.S. What about milking (as we haven't been able to get her up since last night, so missed 2 milkings already), and what about the baby of the pregnant one???


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

sounds like extreme acidosis and would need to get baking soda down them even tubing the oil Banamine 
doing anything with a syringe even water or pedialyte is not enough to sustain the goat you will need lactater ringers give SQ your best bet is after this long of a time to get them into the vet for some help. Sorry 

don't try to feed them any grain at all only hay and water. maybe some cedar limbs with entice them also some dandelions but no grain. 
If the milking doe is engorged then just release some of her milk on the ground. Go to Vicki's website and get her ph number and call her.


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

Keep trying everything, they may come out to be just fine.

The pregnant one is up walking around and nibbling on hay and drinking water. Great! Just offer her hay, no feed. Her stomach needs to settle before you give her any grain.

The milker needs to be milked only if her udder is tight, just enough to relieve the pressure. Treat her as if you know she will make it. Many goats have gotten into chicken houses and eaten feed. Do not offer her anything but hay and water and of course the baking soda like you are doing for both.

They do need the CD/T antitoxin, I am not up on the protocol for bloat, haven't had a case out here in 18 years. The grinding is pain, banamine will help. Someone will be on here soon to help. 

If you can keep the pregnant doe moving and eating hay and not let her lay down for too long of a time, that would help. Actually, diarrhea is not all bad, it gets the offending material out of the gut and cleans out the harmful toxins that were produced in the rumen. So unless the goats is massively losing fluids through the gut, there is no need to stop the diarrhea. It is important to stop diarrhea in a little kid because they can dehydrate and die quickly but an older doe has more reserves. 

I hope I have not led you astray, this is my opinion. Hang in there, don't give up  Call Vicki if you can, she will help.


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

I guess Sondra and I were posting at the same time.


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## angelawilliams29 (Feb 18, 2010)

We have been doing the baking soda all day too (I forgot to mention that.) I emailed Vicky too. We called the vet last night, and again this morning & all they said they could do is put them to sleep!!  I have a call in to another vet to see if I can get the CD/T Antitoxin & Banamine...fixing to call them back again. Thank you for your help!


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

OK I wouldn't worry abt the CD Antitoxin it won't do anything right now this late and the vets don't have it but you do need banamine Tube her with oil and for the lif of me I can't remember how much will go see if I can find it. While doing that you see if you have any small tubing around (aquarium??)


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## Tallabred (Jun 12, 2008)

Try to get the Banamine - It calms the gut. Will they drink anything? If I put a little applecider vinegar in the water they seem to think that it is koolaide.

What a crappy vet - don't call them again for any animal.

Call vicki - she is not THAT far from you.


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## angelawilliams29 (Feb 18, 2010)

Oh really!!?? The CD Antitoxin won't do anything now!!?? That's what I keep hearing to do! No, I have no tubing, and have no clue how to even do that!!! I mean, I can go buy some, if I know what I'm looking for...but, how do I do it?! Where can I get the Banamine? The vet I called is about 40 min away.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

> Immediately dose it with a large amount of oil of just about any kind. canola, safflower, olive, mineral, et al. This reduces the foam and gas that will start as soon as the damage is done. A 60cc syringe, with an udder canula at the tip (if you have one) so as to get it back into the animal's throat in small, swallow-sized amounts (allowing each mouthful to be swallowed before giving another), would be good. Tip the head upward so she can't dribble it all out the minute you dose her! And give her a minute to swallow that mouthful before you dose her again.


Also I probably was wrong abt the CD ANTITOXIN and make sure it is CD ANTITOXIN most TSC carry it. 
and you would need at least 18 cc divided in 3 cc at a time alternating sides given sq and 9 cc given orally. I also would give 9cc orally of pen g.

Give her a couple of benadryl capsuls which can help with swelling and breathing. also may help a tiny bit with the pain as she will relax.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

OK if you have no tubing do you have a turkey baster? 
anyone near you that has cattle? or horses? bute is also a pain killer tho I don't use it but they would have bute or banamine


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## Tallabred (Jun 12, 2008)

Angela, I have had horses recover by giving them syringes of warm water and mineral oil. I would do this as I walked them. The movement helps to keep everything moving. How are you giving them the baking soda. I would put bits in the corner of there mouths. Do you have any horse farms in your area? I am always happy to supply animals in need the drugs that I have available.


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## angelawilliams29 (Feb 18, 2010)

Okay, just talked back to the vet...they will give me nothing w/o seeing the goats. I do not know anyone who has animals near me. Yes, we have a turkey baster--that's what I'm using to give all the previous things & baking soda diluted w/some water to get her to take it. She acts like she can't get up, so I don't know that I can walk her. On the phone w/TSC right now--say they don't carry banamine, checking on the cd ant.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

NO TSC won't have banamine it is an RX item but should have CD Antitoxin.


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## angelawilliams29 (Feb 18, 2010)

Okay, TSC carries the antitoxin labled "equine"...doesn't specify goats--he says it IS CD Antitoxin. Labeled for everything BUT goats.....is this OK!!??


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

yes but Vicki is on now so listen to her please


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## angelawilliams29 (Feb 18, 2010)

Ok, yes, I certainly will! Thank you!


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

I just posted a thread on homesteadingtoday.com goat forum asking for anyone who is near Vidor that has goat experience. Maybe a member in good standing lives near you


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## angelawilliams29 (Feb 18, 2010)

Oh, thank you so much!!! Okay, just gave them both benadryl. Waiting to see if I need to do the oil & go to Beaumont to TSC to get the CD anti...& have no clue what to do about the banamine.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I already PMed her, but it's worth repeating. You have such a small window of opportunity to help a ruminant through grain overload like this. You really have several hours in which to choose to do nothing, or to tube them full of oil (baking soda, charcoal and something like bloat release or bloat guard). As the grain sets in the rumen it will either start to form gas, or worse it will sit as pellets in a mass in the rumen and cause impaction. The oil is the only thing that will stop this from happening but it has to be done quickly and it has to fill the rumen and no syringing it in is going to do that. Immediately then start the banamine, subq fluids and the only thing in front of her should be water and good quality grass hay. It hurts nothing to give C and D antitoxin or antihistamines. Walking works in horses because they are single stomached but works less so in ruminants. Do not give pepto etc...because your goal is to cause massive diarrhea, hopefully that moves this mass of ground grains out of the rumen. It may take several days for the goat to be back on it's normal diet, there is no rush to do this either. She likely won't be milking because she is so dehydrated from just being syringed fluids by mouth, which we know doesn't work.

Sorry I don't know a soul near Vidor except a new gal who is purchasing several kids from me this week, I am looking for someone near her to disbud  Good luck with this, but since there was no quick action with these does, your vet is your last hope. vicki


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## Tallabred (Jun 12, 2008)

Any update?


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## angelawilliams29 (Feb 18, 2010)

No updates yet...my milker is about gone. She's barely breathing. As for the pregnant one, she still has diarrhea and is drinking small amounts of water and eating some hay. She was out in the sun a little earlier, but is now back in the stall with the milker. I guess maybe she knows something's not right..she just keeps staring at the other one. It's a super sad pitiful thing that I NEVER want to experience again. I thank God for showing and teaching us things...just hate it was at the expense of our precious animals' lives and health. We will definitely educate ourselves from here on out and prepare more, as to what to have on hand and what to do in situations like these. We never knew or would have thought that something as "minor" as this could turn out to be so MAJOR. I hope others will learn from our mistake as well. I will post again at the final outcome. Thank you all for your posts.


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## Candy (Jun 4, 2009)

I just want to say I am sorry for your troubles.


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

So sorry this happened to them. Many of us have had terrible things happen and then found our way to this forum. You are doing all you can to help them and have sought the opinion of others. Your goats are well loved.


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## angelawilliams29 (Feb 18, 2010)

Thank you so much...yes, I suppose you are right. It was definitely not a lack of love or trying to get them better...I do feel that I did all I could do with what I had and the amount of time I had to act---w/the info I found on here. A wealth of info, and so much appreciated...just too little too late in my case.  So, the update is that my beloved milker, Tootsie, did die this evening. We buried her and it was sooooo sad. But even through that we saw how precious life is and how you are never guaranteed tomorrow....even in the case of "just a goat." People w/o them will never understand!! My pregnant doe, Oreo still seems to be improving...will post again tomorrow to update. It's all in the good Lord's hands! Thank you all for all the help and encouragement and sympathies.


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## newbie nubian (Feb 7, 2009)

I'm so, so sorry that you've had to go through this. It's awful. Take care, Sara.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

I'm really sorry about your goat. Hope your other goat gets better soon.


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## Guest (Mar 18, 2010)

So sorry you lost your girl.... 
Barb


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## angelawilliams29 (Feb 18, 2010)

*Re: Help!! Sick goats!  UpDATE-PLEASE READ*

Okay, so this morning, went out to check on Oreo (pregnant) & she was lying down. She has obviously taken some of the baking soda through the night, continued to drink water, and has eaten more hay. We got her up, and she peed...well, then I noticed she had some whitish/clearish thing hanging out (about 2 in. long). My husband thinks it's a worm, I'm not sure if it's mucus or what. We have been worming them with an herbal wormer we bought from Fias Co Farms. When my husband called the vet yesterday, he said it sounded like they were wormy, which could kill them too. SO....AGH!! Now, we don't know what to think is the problem here...was it the feed which caused the bloat which may have led to enterotoxemia in Tootsie, and is Oreo following behind her, or is it just worms, and we need to worm her w/something stronger NOW??!! I don't have a clue and was reading that she could get pregnancy toxemia if she got off feed (which she is taking some hay and grazed just a tad bit yesterday evening)...we offered a small handful of alfalfa pellets this morning, but she didn't want it. What do we do?! We have no vets around here that are very familiar with goats....I don't know if she's close to giving birth (she's due either Mar. 31 or Apr. 6) or what. Can anyone help?! Thank you so much!


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

If you think she's off because of hypocalcemia/toxemia, she needs subQ calcium ASAP. If she's starting labor, there's nothing you can do to stop that.


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## Guest (Mar 18, 2010)

Herbal wormer does not work Angela..Ivermectin is a good choice right now.. buy the cattle injectable, but you will give this to her orally... dosage is listed in the goats 101... I think it is 1 cc per every 35 lbs, but check first... 
Or that could be her mucus plug... and she can lose that wks before going into labor... 
But she does need to be wormed now.... 
Barb


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## Tallabred (Jun 12, 2008)

I would check her eyelids before you worm her. That was not a worm coming out of her it was just mucus.


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## angelawilliams29 (Feb 18, 2010)

Okay, do I give this NOW, while she's still pregnant, or wait til she kids??


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## angelawilliams29 (Feb 18, 2010)

I checked her eyelids...they are pink, but not red. ??


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

here's a presentation on FAMACHA, around page 28 shows the chart and the way to use it.
http://www.extension.umn.edu/meatgoats/components/pdfs/FAMACHA_Postels.pdf


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## angelawilliams29 (Feb 18, 2010)

Okay, thanks so much for the info! She seems to be doing much better...I have the Quest now & will dose her after she kids. I'm thinking it will be soon. She is improving in health and behavior and hasn't had the baby yet, so I have hope that they'll both make it through.


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