# how do I make my goats have multiples?



## shilohleesmith (Jan 19, 2011)

Does anybody have a special secret that helps your goat to have multiples. In about a month it will be time for my yearling to breed. And I think that it would be _*SO *_ neat to have triplets! So I'm just wondering if any body has a secret that they would be willing to let on :??? I am getting a vitamin called BoSe that should help but I'll try anything else too. Thanks


----------



## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

The better nutrition your animals get the more you'll have multiples. The bo-se is supposed to encourage more multiples, but I personally have decided I don't want to use it that way. I just don't want to encourage my goats to have multiples with a shot when they wouldn't have otherwise, it's a huge metabolic load and the complexities of nutrition really have to be covered. You really want a good mineral program, that will encourage more babies. 

However, genetics play their part and some does just won't have more than a single or twins no matter what you do. I know someone who had a doe that always had one, never more lol.


----------



## J-Basqo (Oct 26, 2007)

Unfortunately quite a bit of it is up to genetics. But there are things you can do do get your doe in her best health for best results. The Bose is good! You want to make sure she is in good condition (not to fat, not to thin), getting enough minerals and is in optimal health and condition! There is a mineral that some of the gals on here use that they have great results with, I dont remember what it is called but I am sure they will let you know!


----------



## J-Basqo (Oct 26, 2007)

Bose is just a mineral and vitamin supplement. It in no way has any hormones or drugs that will cause a goat to have more babies than it normally would. However if they are lacking in selenium (SE in bose) their entire production and health will be lacking in general, one of the side effects of low selenium being poor reproductive health. Giving bose prior to breeding doesnt make the ovaries drop more eggs, but makes the body whole body healthier and improve the natural reproductive capabilities.


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

A shot of bo-se isn't going to help unless your nutrition is top notch. Does have a remarkable ability to decide metobolicly that although I ovulated and implanted 2 kids in each horn of the uterus and am going to have quads...that the quality of my feed and hay has declined, so I am going to slough one of the eggs and absorb it, I am going to slough one of the embryos and start to absorb it, or I may even abort the whole kit and kaboodle. So simply saying I want my doe to have triplets instead of twins (which is normal) is more complicated than that. If a FF is still growing herself, you would honestly want to wish for two healthy twins so that while she is growing out those two kids, she also continues to grow herself with no problems. If you use hormones like PG600 etc...to make your doe ovulate more eggs, have 3 or 4 or 5 kids in a uterus that is too small, she will open her cervic and kid out the contents of the uterus when the kid weight with the placenta reaches a certain weight, this happens to new people all the time, using meds they really don't have a good handle on, on too small and too young of stock. And if someone is using one dosage with good results, well lets give them more!

My best advice is to get a few kidding season under your belt, work on your nutrition management and have it top notch for the goals of your farm (little reason to be feeding like the top ten herds do when you have no interest in those volumes of milk or the problems associated with a doe milking like that).

Goats have poorer reproductive health if they are defficient in selenium, copper, calcium and most are...but just giving Bo-se (selenium and E) is no secret bullet. Vicki


----------



## shilohleesmith (Jan 19, 2011)

Thanks for the information. She has free choice alfalfa hay and noble goat grower. I'm pleased with her overall health right now because she looks like she is the healthiest that she has ever been. Is there a certain mineral that works well for you?


----------



## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

shilohleesmith said:


> Does anybody have a special secret that helps your goat to have multiples. In about a month it will be time for my yearling to breed. And I think that it would be _*SO *_ neat to have triplets! So I'm just wondering if any body has a secret that they would be willing to let on :??? I am getting a vitamin called BoSe that should help but I'll try anything else too. Thanks


Of course I do! Didn't you see the post about the quads? :rofl

Seriously though, the way to improve the chances of multiples is to flush the doe about 2 weeks before breeding her. This just means that a doe is given a high quality grain and best alfalfa for the two weeks or so before she is bred. Her body will believe that she is living in the land of plenty, which can then of course support all of those kids (as well as her body to produce that quantity of milk).

What others have posted above should also be considered. You do need to have good feed, good management etc. Because if you flush your doe and you do NOT have those things in order, you will most likely have a train wreck on your hands - ketosis, milk fever, dead kids, etc.

Please note: We have really only ever flushed our Boer does, as they do have a dry period when we have them eating a nice quality grass hay (or alfalfa/grass mix). So they can go from basic good nutrition (and they always have the high quality mineral available) to enhanced nutrition. The Saanens are always in milk when we breed them, so they are already getting best grain, best hay etc. But obviously when they are getting all that on a regular basis, they can still produce twins, triplets, and even quads, while working hard in the milk room.


----------



## shilohleesmith (Jan 19, 2011)

What kind of minerals do I need to feed her? In a pellet or what?


----------



## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

Shiloh, 

you are in OK like me, we use Bluebonnet Techmaster Mineral and had good success with it. It is a loose mineral and you can get it at TSC or in Purcell Farm and Ranch store. You need to talk to the manager to order as they usually do not have it in stock. Also consider copper bolusing your doe, since we have very high iron in OK. You can find all the info here, if you only have one or two does (from your blog I was under the impression it is a project for you and your sister perhaps?), I'd be happy to send you already made boluses, just need to know the weight of your does. 

Read Vicki's post in Goatkeeping 101 about Management from birth to kidding, that is a good plan to follow for does in the south.


----------



## Kelly (Jan 20, 2011)

Hello everyone,

I have been following these posts and they have been very helpful. I mistakenly thought the buck determined the babies outcome but now I realize that he determines ONLY the sex and the female determines how many! I feel ignorant for not knowing this before now but... the way Camille explained it was beautiful... "they will think they are living in the land of plenty." So I get it now. The key is to be able to follow this plan to make sure Mama can support all those growing babies through without illness, etc. 
I use Golden Blend Free Choice minerals but I'm in NH and the most I've ever had my Saanens birth were triplets. I honestly do not want to encourage more babies but instead do the absolute best I can for them and if I get multiples and mama and babies are healthy then I know my efforts have paid off. Best practice, I think, is preventative. This is takes daily effort not just a one pill, one shot, one vitamin, or one specific mineral secret. You are doing the right thing being on here and learning. You will be a great.


----------



## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

Shiloh, make sure you wait until these does are at least 100lbs, 68lb and 70lb is no way fit for freeding as a yearling, especially not for triplets.


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Yes and as you ask questions don't think for an instance I will remember what goats you have or this story  I am OLD!  So although I breed my does to kid as young yearlings, I won't remember that your does are smaller. The nice thing is, young yearlings kidding rarely have anything but twins here...I ultrasounded the 5 first fresheners who will kid in March at nearly 2 years old and all of them are carrying triplets....if I red my black dots correctly


----------



## Goat Town (Nov 20, 2010)

Shiloh,

Do you have access to feed and minerals produced by Big V Feeds out of McCalister, OK? If so, they produce a really good mineral for goats in Oklahoma. It's called 16/5 Copper Sure.


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Good tip Nicole- lots of folks here use Big V feeds and supplies and are very pleased. 
They have a wide range of mineral formulas that cattlemen here like.


----------



## abtowell (Nov 6, 2009)

Be specific on the Big V stuff guys. Some of there stuff is heavy coated on molasses, and I know most of you agree that lots of molasses is bad. A friend of ours loses their goats around 8 or 9 years old that uses the Big V sweet feed. I just wanted to clarify. The Noble Goat here isn't as high as it is other places yet. I am paying just under $11 a bag.


----------



## Oat Bucket Farm (Mar 2, 2009)

I think they key is not to _make_ your does have high multiples but instead to have good enough management that they _give_ you multiples if their genetics allow. Personally I would be fine with nothing but twins and the occasional triplets. I don't think I want to be presented with quads.


----------



## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

Nicole, 

hmm, need to look into that. The only product from Big V that was goat specific mineral only had copper sulfate in it plus iron, I was NOT impressed. 

The point here is no longer about how many multiples, but that a 68lb doe at 14 months is severly stunted. Only long term care and adjusted management will get this animal to where she can indeed be bred later on and successfully go through the stress of pregnancy. There is no secret formula, feed or mineral to get the animal gain weight instantly and get here where she should have been by now. It will take patience, good nutrition, learning about cocci prevention, worming, etc. to reverse her condition.


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Ok let's be specific.
I just talked to the nutritionist and he said the dairy goat ration is 5 percent on grain mix- same as Noble Goat
and the dairy goat pellet is made with a 'molasses binder' which is used at the rate of 5 percent but is molasses incorporated with lignan sulfate and so is actually no more than 3.75 molasses.
So actually less molasses than most dairy rations or dairy pelleted ration.

Most pelleted rations are using 5 to 10 percent molasses. Unless you find someone who does an oil pellet then you are feeding molasses at the going industrial rate. For Noble goat in our region you will be getting it from a processor in Texas -McGregor I believe. Noble goat is no different about the use of molasses not to mention they have 8 different locations producing this pellet who also produce mega tons of other pellets with what is on hand with the highest profit margin. 

And just for general info when I spoke with the ADM nutritionist he told me their dairy goat ration is 10% molasses and I also learned from the nutritionist at Bluebonnet that the primary reason for using at higher percentages beyond laying the dust is to 'add weight'. It is very heavy and you can add a lot of weight without adding much mass. (I don't think he meant to tell me that!)
Lee


----------



## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

Oat Bucket Farm said:


> I think they key is not to _make_ your does have high multiples but instead to have good enough management that they _give_ you multiples if their genetics allow. Personally I would be fine with nothing but twins and the occasional triplets. I don't think I want to be presented with quads.


Yep. This is really the crux of it.

When you ask for advice (as Vicki mentions above), you really do need to list your animal's specifics - age, weight, etc. I assumed that the question was more generic/wishful and also "assumed" that since they were yearlings they were pretty good sized animals.

I should also add that Amethyst (dam of the quads) is a 180 lb. doe... and 3 years old.

Our Boer does that have triplets/quads range from 160-225 lbs - and all of the does have had excellent nutrition, from the time before they are conceived (and folks, this makes for better goats too!), through the kid stage which includes vaccinations, worming, cocci prevention, and excellent nutrition, up through adulthood and their various lactations.

There are no shortcuts.


----------



## abtowell (Nov 6, 2009)

As for the Big V feed, I haven't seen all of their line, just an all purpose feed some friends use that is very heavy on the molasses. I know Noble Goat has molasses in it of course, but this Big V I saw was almost solid dark brown like straight up sugar with huge molasses balls in it. I wouldn't want the poster who is young and new to think he shoudl feed that. I am sure if Lee is recommending a feed it is decent it's just these are little girls who have had no cocci prevention since 6 weeks old, they haven't been fecaled or wormed properly and I feel they will benefit more right now from medicated feed, right now. It will be a bit before they can be bred so medicated makes more sense at least to me, until they get closer to breeding weight.


----------



## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

Another thing to ponder when wishing for trips or more is-do you have the time and money to raised potentially orphaned kids if mom can't or won't feed more than 1 or 2 kids? Do you have enough room for all the extra kids? Do you have an outlet for extra buck kids? Can you face selling buck kids for meat? How abut a market for doe kids?


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Alysha- I have never used the feed. I feed COB or a horse mix that is COB with brewers grains.
I have visited with owners that are using that line of feed and mineral for goats- cattle and rabbits. Everyone is very pleased and the animals all look good. Perhaps you saw a bad mix on a batch. The FORMULA does not call for more than 5 percent but the mill is ultimately responsible for mixing and shipping a quality product and the company only knows if you complain. 

I don't recommend any manufactured feed product but I know it is easy and sometimes all that is available. Please remember it is only very recently very recently that there has been this money making niche market for anything labeled goat. I can guarantee you that at a huge processing mill they are mixing tons of the same feed and just putting it in different bags to make your favorite. What you pay is jacked up for how much advertising and how much the name can command via marketing and targeting groups. How much do you have to spend to feel good about it? That is what they appeal to- you feeling good about what you are doing for your animal. At those prices you might as well feed them people food! 

Most nutritionists I have spoken to that are in charge of the goat formulas are really easy to stump. They have no idea why it is a bad idea to push molasses. None what so ever. It is a cheap ingredient that makes ordinary or even low quality ingredients palatable. So what I am saying is Noble goat is no improvement over any other brand but no worse either. At least it has a yeast additive and minerals in a form they can be used. But just to qualify my 'recommendation' I personally don't use manufactured feed products and the only goats in 30 plus years I had die as adults were on ADM dairy ration. That for me was the end of processed feed.


----------



## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

What is ADM? Already Done Mixed???? I've seen it on empty grain bags they repackage local oats in but I never knew what it meant.

We don't get plain grains up here, just whole native oats. They do grow some corn, but not much any more and they don't sell it dry, I am not sure what they do with it! Barley? Most people up here don't know what it is! I try to balance having to use commercial feed by mixing it 1/3 commercial feed with 1/3 whole oats and 1/3 alfalfa pellets. I add a cup of BOSS to their evening meal of oats and alfalfa pellets, and top dress with their loose minerals and kelp. 

The local commercial grain I get for goats does use chelated minerals and adds yeast these days, so at least they have some sort of a clue, but even the pelleted stuff has molasses. I have had goats for 30+ years and so far have had minimal health problems in spite of the feeds we have up here. Maybe they are just so used to commercial feeds, they have adapted to it?


----------



## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

ADM http://www.admani.com/


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Forum, it has come to my attention that this is an underaged poster. You have to be 18 to be on the forum, so this poster has been banned until her parents have a membership and post for her.

If anyone local to her would like to mentor her, with her parents permission of course, here is her email. [email protected]

Vicki


----------



## abtowell (Nov 6, 2009)

Thank you Vicki, although just to clarify, Shiloh is young man. I had recommended him to come here and read about good management, being that he was having trouble following my instructions simply by phone conversations. I was unaware he could register at under 18 and assumed his parents had for him. I will clarify if I have anymore underage buyers.


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

It's not just having parents register, they have to be on here asking questions, and obviously this was not happening. V


----------

