# what to do with bucklings



## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

ok, this was thread drift from the "Butchering and Cocci meds" thread since it was mostly about bucklings and wandering into how much meat you actually get at what cost... first bit is paste from there....
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Thanks Vicki, I was totally wondering about the numbers on wethers as meat. A rough estimate in my head didn't really make economic sense to me. So far, my does have blessed me with mostly doelings, I've only had 2 bucklings! I know, the law of averages is likely to get me soon, that's why I'm thinking I'd best make use of my reprive and figure out a plan for for next time. 

One was in the very first kidding, and I hadn't thought it thru, there's popular wisdom here that they go for pets, and I was told he'd be a popular companion for a singe city doe as he was 75% ND and would therefore be a super easy keeper. All turned out true, but I still think he was/is a PITA and I'm not sure I'd do it again. He totally bullied his sister, hogged the best of everything, I was glad to see him go, although he's very loved with his current family.

Both times there's been a buckling in the kidding, a teat has gotten injured, vs hasn't happened yet with doeling only kids. 

So I'd better come up with a plan B...

LOL, "B" for buckling!

I have one more doe who was bred, but continued to show heats, I thought it didn't take, but she's looking a little pregnant and acting "different" and if the breeding did take, day 145 will be in 10 days... Maybe its just the gut reaction to averages that I'm due for bucklings, but I have a feeling she has a single buckling. I just hope its not too huge. Vet says ultrasound is $150 and that's the only way to tell... LOL, I guess that's really a different thread too! But the relevance to this is that I need a better plan/decision tree for what to do with bucklings. I'm not interested in eating them personally, and hubby is super strict vegetarian since age 8. I've been given a break from the Universe with doelings so far, but the averages are going to catch up with me!

I see a lot of folks who automatically wether or otherwise take FF bucklings out of the picture in a hurry. I'm curious about that if the doe is from excellent lines, and by wethering date you have a some idea how much milk she's producing and what her udder looks like, what's the reasoning? 

Since I'm not selling milk and can't legally (yet), there's not a direct economic loss while nursing. Maybe if I start soaping this year. A local Farmer's Market is asking me if I will so it seems like something I should explore. Although I have to say the only-kid doeling from FF is putting on weight FASTER, than the multiples have, maybe no competition and I'm losing increased growth and value in my doelings if they have a piggy buckling brother? Is my experience with bucklings and injured teats something you with more experience would agree with or just bad luck?

What process did you all go thru from the first few years to now, as far as what to do with bucklings?


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

Yikes, expensive vets in your area. I pay $10 for ultrasound and counting my blessings  

I am fairly new to goats but plan "B" (how to quickly get rid of excess bucklings) is quite crutial. The "averages" can put you at all bucks and only 2 does, which is what we had this year. You can't sell a buckling or wether any cheaper at 3 or 6 weeks, or months, than you can at birth. Even if you don't consider the milk a cost, cocci prevention, dewormings, etc. will cost you money that you are not getting back.

I found two things that work for me. We breed for color and flashy bucklings go to local hobby herds. I also market to homesteaders (that may not be an option in town) with FF bucklings. They are priced low and are moved out before 1 week of age. Free if need be, it makes more business sence than to keep them. From my nice does I priced them at $100 and they went as bucks, from FF that I don't consider excellent quality, I just price them to sell ($25 or $50 and they sell quickly through CL or word of mouth). 

In your case, I think you have a different market and I would try marketing them as wethers to petting zoos, therapy programs, etc. As you grow your nice does should have deposits on their buck kids before they are even born. Offer shipping outside of state or transport to Nationals, larger shows, etc. to serve larger market for breeding animals.

Hope this helps some 

Jana Bullis


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## Rose (Oct 26, 2007)

Cabrito at weaning. I'm not selling milk, as I am a small home operation.


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## legacyvalley (Feb 13, 2010)

We discount the wether price or offer a wether for free with the purchase of a doeling. Many first time goat owners want the wether as a companion. I have had a few want to buy an older buck though so having a couple that you can offer them isn't a bad idea.


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## Laverne (Apr 4, 2010)

I'm only having one doe kid out this year and I'll probably wean them at 5 mos. like I did my 5 kids last year. Getting them past the mortality stage, selling to excellent pet homes. Which I found last year, and I still mentor by email. I know i'm not practical.


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

prairie nights said:


> ...try marketing them as wethers to petting zoos, therapy programs,...


does any really know of a goat in a therapy program? I do have one that I've joked about doing this with... who/where actually does this?


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

I am not doing this on a big scale or anything but my friend runs a soccer program for mentally and physically handicapped kids and we plan to attend her fundraiser with some of the goat kids. I can't risk stressng valuable does but I plan to take a couple of bucklings and a nupine doeling. 

The goats would also work for a birthday party set up - especially if you have a wether that can pull a cart and let kids bottle babies, their property or yours. Big money in birthday parties of any kind here, same with pony rides (imagine goat cart rides  and petting zoos. My friend was making $800 an event with her petting zoo that included goats. Church events, fall festivals, corporate events, etc. 

There is a market out there for goats other than breeding stock for show and dairy. 

Jana


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

But be honest also, you are breeding these gals and they are livestock with sons that are food. Pet homes are few and far between, especially good ones, and forget about forever homes, they are all but non exsistant. You can barely find good homes for real pets, let alone livestock. So although well meaning, wethers sold as companions to doelings, wethers sold as pets, for how long? Anything a wether can do a doe can do and milk and make meat for the family. Wethers also need a special diet that rarely happens, and most are either neglected, eaten by the family dog or die of urinary calculi as they are loved to death. I won't make wethers because of this. Vicki


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

And I've seriously thought about not breeding goats at all because of the buckling issue. It's one that's easy for me to say..."bucks will go for meat", but as a child I could not eat the cows we butchered, and suspect I won't be able to eat the buck kids either...will not, absolutely NOT send my sweet, well-loved buck kids to the market...will butcher here on the farm first...I talked to some folks yesterday about their alpines milking now for 3 years straight...not needing a lot of milk, and with the buckling issue and time spent kidding, etc. etc., this is looking better to me all the time. It's a real issue, and one that I realize if I can't eat these goats, and buck sales are down, as a responsible human, maybe I should stop breeding. We have one wether with never a problem, but I personally know of many wethers...grain fed, with horrible urinary calculi problems.


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

I had no problem on the childhood farm eating the cattle we raised, or the lambs I raised, and they were in the freezer by call name! LOL, that's how you knew in the freezer if it was beef or lamb, all the beef had "flower" names. It was just a fact of life, we saw the hawks eat the rabbits, everybody eats somebody, that was just a given.

There were some 4H kids hysterical at the auction about their lambs going to the butcher, I never got that, that's what we raised them for, that was their purpose. In some sense it seemed to me to dishonor them to avert their life's purpose.

But life changes. Now I'm married to an extremely committed vegetarian, my in-laws are vegans (no eggs or dairy at all), and I haven't eaten meat except for rarely fish, (don't ask, sushi is my birthday exception, lol), in decades. We are doing goat dairy for high quality of dairy, and peace of mind about what's in it and what's NOT in our dairy products, getting dairy in a humane way, etc. Great pets are a bonus, but they are here to PRODUCE.

So bucklings are an ethical question for some folks, as Anita spelled out clearly. They are kind of like the criticism of Industrial Dairy, collateral damage to get to the milk. I suspect that if an herb or strategy to get more doelings really proved to work, many folks who don't use/sell the bucklings for meat, would use it. 

Personally, I think I could emotionally sell many of them at weaning knowing they were going to meat future, but I'm not sure about that yet. I know I will have to be crystal clear on it as my husband will have a fit. 

Emotionally, I think I can accept that's what needs to happen to most of them. The two so far that have gone to pet/companion to doe homes, I'm not sure that's great either and emotionally I think its harder on me to feel responsible for them, for choosing where they now live, and if they get urinari calculi etc I will feel some responsibility pangs. Yes that's irrational and nutty, but that's how feelings are. We can be honest about our feelings and still make rational decisions! We do it many times per day in human relations for goodness sake, its different only in degree.

Ethically, I'm less sure where I stand about the right thing to do with bucklings. In some ultra-literal perverse black humor way, they are defective dairy animals, they are missing a piece of chromosome (Y is like X missing a leg). Where's that icon for "groan"...

So in some sense, ethically I can construct a good argument that says my highest responsibility is to care for and develop does to the best of my ability. If that's the foundation, then so far in my experience, buckling kids harm teats at a much higher rate, take milk and otherwise stress and bully their sisters, and other stuff that supports Vicki's approach to sell them soaking wet the day they are born, and its someone else's responsibility then. I can make that argument convincingly, but I'm not totally convinced, LOL. I can also make counter arguments that it hurts the dairy cause untimately cuz some will be kept intact and used as bucks when they shouldn't be, its kind of a cop-out to just send the problem "away" when there really is no "away" and everything comes back to us in some form, its the ultmate "passing the buck" (where's that Groan again....hey, found it!) :groan

I do live in a city where neighbors and community harmony matter, and here at least, its a very "politically correct" place and I'm kind of a wild hair as it is. So I have to balance that, and be very strong and convinced of my own decisions, that I'm doing the right and best thing as I do with my other unpopular views or lifestyle choices. I'm no where near that on this issue yet, and thank God, have just been very blessed with 80% doeling percentage so far. I suspect I'm on the target list for the Law of Averages now, lol, and the doe due to kid or give me cloudburst experience in a week-ish, will get me, lol. So this question is near for me.

Also in the city, I'm not sure that selling bucklings "soaking wet" will go at all, I'm not sure there's a market, folks don't have the same mindset or easy availability to bottle feed etc. 

We also have goat rescues here who are raising ethical concerns, clamoring that home scale dairy is going to make lots more homeless goats, goats with horns or lack of care, etc and selling them day 1 might contribute to that problem more than the other options. This could turn into its own whole discussion, let's skip that! For me, I am clear that I want to take "reasonable" steps to make sure the kids I produce don't wind up in rescue, and having them go on day one seems higher risk. 

We also have a ton of vegans here who say "dairy is wrong" period cuz of the industrial model of the way its done on many levels. I can't run my life by committee or cater to the fringe, but if I am trying to do something "better" I do have to consider the issues they raise, and go for a personal moral high road about how I am doing what I am doing. Dam raising is part of that for me, many of you legitmately come to other conclusions in your circumstances, I think both can be the high road under different conditions, I just have to have a path of integrity for my choices now, and saying I dam raise but send the bucklings away on day one, gives me pause.

I do think wethers can be a better companion than another doe for some small family set ups. In my experience, they need to eat a LOT less, the noise problem is much less as they are not coming into heat, there's less kids produced total in the city as some would give in to "why not" and breed the 2nd doe more than they really had as a goal, etc. The downsides are the loss of that additional milker option for a family during the 2 dry months of pregnancy, I think a Co-op of like minded friends should help with that for the good of the whole cause. So I do think they are a reasonable option but for a small percentage.

I thought I would be comfortable doing "whatever" with bucklings on a case by case basis like everyone else does, but I'm not. I share Anita's discomfort with the buckling issue, also intend to look at extended lactation as part of the solution, but still need a sound and thought thorough approach that fits as ethical for me, for the 50% of kids that should be bucklings.

So I *VERY* much appreciate those of you willing to engage in real discussion on this. :thankyou


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## Nupine (Nov 2, 2007)

Wow Lacia! Honestly....I'm pretty much in the EXACT same boat as you! I have been lucky with does so far....farm totals are 8 does, 3 bucks. I'm a pescetarian. I have a lot of emotional problems selling bucks for meat, and I'm quite a softie. We have one wether kid right now, and basically there is someone local who we are going to contact about taking him. He took two grade nubians from me last year, and has a small herd of wethers and does only who live on 40 acres of well fenced pasture/woods with shelter, hay, minerals, and water. He used to raise beagles in this pasture before his wife died, so he likes having goats out there to keep the brush down. Its a really nice set up for goats. If he doesn't want our wether [which I doubt] I might try the local paper, and if that fails, then he can probably live with our two pet lambs at mu uncle's house [next door], its 5 acres of well fenced pasture and woods, with a 12x12 shed all to themselves. As far as spending money on milk, worming, feed, etc. on wethers til weaning, thats not much of a problem. We have more milk than we need [we aren't a dairy], and we don't have goats to make a profit. We aren't rich, but we do have money we don't mind spending on them. Sure, money occasionally is nice. I sold 3 does on Thursday, and was thrilled to get $350. But being ethical is more important to me than saving a little cash. Also, after I sell my milker, I'll only be breeding 2 does next year. I'm building a website, and both of these does are French Alpines that I will breed to our superior buck, and I don't think I will have a problem selling buck kids out of them. 
Ashlyn


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Lacia, Your market is not the town around you, and if you don't market your animals out of your town, you should not breed the girls, certainly not every year. Your breeding livestock, and all male livestock that can't be used for breeding, is meat, your then trying to market males as pets. Even if sold for pets today, one day they will likely be on someones dinner table, so why all the wringing of hands? I would bet there isn't more than one or two forever homes for a wether on this whole forum. So it's better he gave someone a brief amount of happiness as a pet before he was butchered, or butchered young, or butchered for BARF at 3 days old? I just never got the premise of early death is wrong and later death is right.

Obviousy those who buy my soaking wet bucklings are not wanting a $1200 Shoofly son. My soaking wet bucklings are usually a really good deal for the new person not wanting to shlep their does all over trying to get them bred. I have a paper I send home with all of them and it clearly states that this could be the best $100 you spend as the young milker your buck is out of appraises 90 as a 3 year old and is first place at a Nubian Speciality with Best Udder, as the buckling that went to Ray became, or it can be the worst $100 you spent as she is sold 4 weeks later as a family milker, as that pretty colostrum filed udder you saw shows the pocket she has. I don't fool my customers and I don't lie to myself.

I have also killed 100's of bucklings and many doelings the day they were born, composted most and alot went over the fence into the hogpen, the same thing that happens on most dairies every spring and fall. I built up my market by thinking out of the box, and now I rarely put anything down at birth. My responsibility is to my family, not to those who think I flood the market with cheap bucklings, it's a ill logical thought anyway, because those who come to me for a $100 buckling were never going to go to them for a $350 buckling anyway, so how did I take business from them anyway? Most want to lease or come here to be hand bred, it's impossible to hand breed new folks goats, and there isn't enough bucks for lease. I also know that an intact male will more likely be sold to someone else to use as a breeding buck, but yes eventually killed or butchered.

Ashlyn that is my point, you now have your French Alpines, you won't be selling them for 3 does for $350 or wethering bucklings out of them and trying to find pet homes. The more you market your animals, the better animals you breed, your goals at your farm can become more.

"But being ethical is more important to me than saving a little cash."

Your ethics for your family and your goats. Lacia asked for our opinons, she is getting mine. It does not make my management unethical because it is different than yours, it simply makes it different. Few people stay in dairy goats to have this conversation in 10 or 20 years, but boy would I like to have this conversation in 10 or 20 years  Vicki


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## BrokenHalterFarm (Feb 16, 2010)

Speaking as someone who rescues and has seen first hand what happens to goats that go to owners who think it's fun to have a goat.
I would rather see them butchered before trying to find a pet home.
When people first meet me and learn about my goats and what my farm does or would like to do in some cases , they seem to think it's a great idea to have some of the pets I do.
I spend more time talking people OUT of getting goats and donkeys. 
I HATE seeing goats tethered 24/7 , I don't mind occassional but living the life at the end of a rope or chain is cruel in my opinion , and that is how MANY pet goats live their lives.
My most recent rescue bears a dent and scarring on his neck from this practice.
Theres also in my opinion not enough honest first hand information out there about goats and the care they REALLY need. Most people want to google it and get a quick answer.
Before I started taking in I had one goat that I did EVERYTHING wrong with (except castrating , he was whethered before I bought him) He ended up with polio due to my ignorance. Somehow he manged to survive it and all the other wrongs I did by him. Six years later the farm is much different then when he came to me as a baby and it was shortly after getting a better goat education that I started taking them in when I can.
Being a pet goat can be a really great thing or it can be the worst.

Most people cannot mange to spay and neuter their house pets , so many males that arent castrated early that get sold to pet homes never do get castrated and end up living lives that are pure misery.

Butchering and selling to meat is fine by me , do I always agree with it , no , there are situations where it doesnt set well with me , but there are far worse things then being dead , especially for an animal.


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## Nupine (Nov 2, 2007)

Vicki, I'm not saying you are unethical. Being a pescetarian, I have very particular feelings on raising goats, and this very touchy subject. But I'm not going to county fairs and releasing the market animals from their pens. I have my own ethics, that surround my feelings, but I certainly try not to critisize others. 
The 3 does I sold were lower quality Americans, two dry yearlings that were on the small side, and a doe kid [still on bottle]. I wasn't too concerned about getting a ton of cash for them, I mostly just wanted them out of the barn. But now I have 1 French buck, and 2 French does for a small breeding herd, and don't plan on getting much larger than that. And that really will help set higher goals for me, breeding small amounts of quality animals that people will actually want! That is the point I'm very gently *trying* to get across to a family in our 4-H club. They rescued a 4-5 very low quality [emaciated, severly overgrown hooves, wormy, alpine/nubian/pygmy cross type animals] from the brink of death and are breeding the does to their pygmy cross buck, and have two bucks out of the cross they are trying to sell for breeding, and are keeping another one of the bucks and a doe for continued breeding. I've been offering to band them for free, but they are pretty set in their ways.


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## BrokenHalterFarm (Feb 16, 2010)

^ You can educate and help people all you want , but unfortunatly some people just don't care or they arent able to understand the difference in quality.
To some a goat really is just a goat.

Ex.
My g/f came over last night and shes a suburbia raised gal whos only had one dog and that's the extent of her animal knowledge.
A feral cat popped some kittens out and I took her up to them.. She never knew they were as small as they are and honestly had trouble believing that it was normal for them to look as they do.
Some people love animals but will never understand the whys and hows of what makes a successfull operation and what makes a quality animal quality.

I know for me growing up I never understood quality with goats. I almost didnt whether my second goat because of his neat color. Im extremely glad I did now though , he's really just an average grade nubian type with an extra sweet personality.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Being involved in ethics questions as a livestock raising vegetarian might be better aimed at big meat producers and meat packers and shippers. Small homestead livestock producers are far more ethical in their worst treatment of animals which is normally ignorance and not standardized practice for profit.

There are too many reproductive animals on this planet but no one wants anyone telling them what to do so we best police ourselves. I was thrilled to see spay and neuter clinics get going. Just like they had to go out and slaughter the wild horses they spent zillions to save because there are too many- someone may come knocking on your door Lacia someday because the random non-plan to do all this livestock in city circumstances did not ever take into account the water usage. In areas where they are already on year round water restrictions there is no sound way to let livestock randomly multiply. 

We have huge space- huge forage resources and decent bloodlines but still let very few bucks remain intact.
We butcher at weaning or we toss em out in a lush paddock until we can get to it with only minerals as supplement and just get what we get for a carcass with this management. In this jungle that works but in a city situation or where you are bringing in every mouth full they eat it is a no brainer. 

You either raise livestock or pets. The two management styles are very different. One lets you spend more money and time than the animal will ever be worth on upkeep and care by robbing resources from other parts of your household for emotional reasons. The other causes you to consider each step you make in the care of each animal so they are contributing in a solid monetary way to the good balance of the entire homestead/farm/operation. 

That does not mean you cannot be attached to your livestock but it is so much easier to keep a reality based operation if you attach to someone you know is staying-That solid producing 5 year old doe- not a baby because it is cute or a buck because he has that white splash on his face or a wether because he has so much personality. I am a pescatarian as well soon to be a vegetarian since we are emptying the oceans-but we have lots of friends and family that love goat meat so I enjoy the kids while I am handling them and once they are weaned they are meat and the same with the rabbits. My husband names them after presidents so he can cut their guts out with someone less endearing in mind. :biggrin This is a mild mannered lab rat of nerd child who picks up spiders to put them outside so it is never easy but it is efficient and one of the ways our labor is repaid. Since the green paper is not ever really stacking up around here the rewards have to be otherwise realized and meat is one of the returns. 

It has to be different for everyone but I echo the opinion that you won't be at this long if you do pet style management of livestock and plan to have very many. Bucklings are a good place to begin to face that reality.
And don't get the idea that our animals are not pets but they were born here of good producers and have produced here for many years and so they have earned that status but still are on the books as livestock because they have to produce to remain at that status and remain as a part of the whole cycle where one part contributes to the others. It's the only way it makes economical sense since we are not independently wealthy but that may be a private reality not applicable to others so I hope all of you can figure out what works. 

I was as a young mother aghast at watching a local Saanen dairy pull kids- check sex and slit throats all in the same smooth move but I understand it far better now. I do not push efficiency that far but we do put extra males in the food chain for both people and dogs at a time when the yield seems optimal. We do not have the luxury of extending our mothering tendencies using precious resources better spent to fields full of bucks no matter how much I do really like them!

hahah trying to catch up to Lacia in words per minute :rofl


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

Vicki McGaugh Tx Nubians said:


> Lacia, Your market is not the town around you, and if you don't market your animals out of your town, you should not breed the girls, certainly not every year.


Bingo, I think Vicki is right on here, calling this out, I need to think outside the box a bit more. I have decent bloodines, I'm on official Milk Test this year so will have that, am trying to get buck genetics that I want both from AI pb LM and get the polled gene into my herd... the "high road" for me has to include being beyond my local politics and mindset.

More later, need to think and work in dry daylight, the rain is threatening already...

What a great discussion this is! :biggrin


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## Laverne (Apr 4, 2010)

A couple friends of mine start putting ads on craigslist at the birth of the kids and take reservations, selling as bottle babies at about 3 weeks or weaning at about 2 mos. They seem to sell all of the wethers as pets. They also have a little website. One has a free one called Webs. They put that link in their ad on CL. They have nigerians and mini manchas.

Trying to sell kids the weeks before public school starts is much slower. I started getting interest after school started.
I also got a blue eyed nigerian buck to throw blue eyed kids hoping for a better market. 

I sold last year a set of minimancha doelings and a set of wethers ,all blue eyes. Each buyer was a lady about my age, around 50. Each one shopped around for goats and were planning on goat pets for awhile. I had advertised them as having had a super good start, cae, cl neg., disbudded, friendly, and they looked good and were very healthy. They both had shopped around and my goats won out. Neither of the homes were in the city. They went to a country setting. I believe living in a large metropolitan area with surrounding country, there will always be a home out there. 
If they want to have a barbeque later that's fine with me. I don't care to know about it. I do believe that an animal doesn't know if it goes now or later. I've processed lambs in the past from start to finish.
I'm in it for the milk and plan on milking through with them and keeping kids at a minimum. One FF will kid out this year and hopefully I won't have kids for a couple years.

There aren't any issues here in Portland with goats that I know of. I don't think too many have them deeper in the city even though it's allowed. There is one co-op called Going Goaty. They're on Google.


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## lorit (May 10, 2010)

what if you have a buckling from one doe (who you plan to milk through) and he would be a step (or two) up for another doe that will be ready to breed this fall? can you use him that once and then wether or butcher? based upon his dam and pedigree, he would improve 2nd doe's udder and milk production.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Using him and then butchering or wethering is exactly what I do. Then it's just a matter of keeping him in a place where he won't breed any doe you until you want him to.


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## hammerithot (May 31, 2010)

My goals include the production of meat. One of my first questions to myself was, well, I have to breed to get milk, so what am I going to do with the kids? Both of my does are grades, so their kids will be worth very little. There certainly are not enough pet homes to go around. I cannot in good conscience sell my kids down the road to uncertain fates. Therefore, the kids from these does will probably go largely for meat. I do plan to get another doe, one whose babies will have value, so that I can produce some kids that I can sell. We probably don't have enough meat needs here to keep and butcher all the kids we produce. I am a vegetarian, simply because I lost the taste for meat. But, when we were forced to butcher a chicken (horse trampled her and broke her leg), I cooked her up in a pot pie, intending to share the result at a church potluck. I ended up eating about half of it myself! So, I can see myself eating home-produced meat that I raise and butcher myself. I was a little annoyed, though. That chicken turned out to be the only one laying eggs! *grumble*


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## DostThouHaveMilk (Oct 25, 2007)

Except for the year we tried the "leave them intact and with horns" for the "better price," just about every male born here has been castrated. That year was bad! Lots of "whose your daddy" babies. I think in the last 11 years now, we've left about 8, maybe as many as 10 buck kids intact with the idea of breeding in mind. Even then, some of those went with the wethers for meat in the end. I've learned I need to keep at least one or two buck kids intact these days because of locals who don't look for a buck in the Spring but come to me looking for one in the Fall. It is just simpler to have a buck out of a decent grade milker for them to purchase for meat price and use. I am still working on the quality. We didn't have the funds to out and start from solid genetics. We started with inexpensive animals and I have worked to try and bring out their best qualities. For the most part, my buck kids are born to does that aren't necessarily there yet (especially show wise and papers wise).
So the vast majority end up castrated. At about 7-15 months old (after being naturally weaned by their dams and raised on 80 acres of lush pasture/woods) they are sent for meat. They have a 2-3 hour drive in a small livestock trailer, go through an auction, and generally go direct to slaughter from there. One day of bad.
I have people that want to buy "pet goats." They don't want to pay what I need out of those wethers. We get better money sending them through an auction and I know their life was good and their end was quick.
On our farm, those meat wethers are the money part. We are more a commercial meat set up (with about half the population being dairy goats) than a dairy set up. I make soap, but most of the milk goes into the kids.
Most of the goat breeders that I am friends with are of the mindset to sell as pets. They can't imagine them going for meat. I was there, about 8 years go. Back when the most kids we had born was 24. We sold the goats for as little as $10 sometimes. It's only in the last few years I have come to feel that the meat option is better for the kids than the alternative.
Having said that, there is a 9 year old Nubian wether in the buck herd named John Henry. He came with a herd of does I purchased from friend. I told her, he would not be sold for meat. And he hasn't been. He was handy when we still had William. He was the buck companion for William. William was a big boy and JH was big enough to handle living with him during rut. So he served some purpose. We've had him for 5 years now. He will live here until he dies. 

It is one of the more difficult parts of dairying. Our Jersey bull calves were sold, of course. When I ended up on the Internet, I started marketing them to fellow dairy goat breeders. Very few went through the local sale barn after that. Now, we keep the bull calves to raise for meat. But that is because we are no longer a Grade A dairy farm.
So I was raised with the mindset that the males just don't have the same place a productive female has.


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## Nupine (Nov 2, 2007)

I think I'm probably one of those friends of yours Roseanna 
I think it is really more my mom [who is a meat eater BTW] who is touchy with this, rather than myself. We have only 1 wether kid to sell this year. He is 5 weeks old, and absolutely adorable. She carries around a photo of him, and shows it to tons of local people, going on and on about his adorableness xD She is trying really hard to find him a nice home, and a few people are interested she says.
Ashlyn


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