# NEW THREAD mixing grains/ what to feed



## SANDQ (Dec 27, 2011)

For us new guys at keeping goats, please can we simpllify things. We all want the best for our animals and we want to be efficient at doing it as we can. We all joined this forum to learn and we thank you all for your wealth of experience and information. Sometimes, for us learners, the information given can be overwhelming.
It seems to me, we have 2 threads going at the moment on the same subject. So, for us novices at keeping goats, can we please get the basics down first.
The best foundation, for a dairy goats diet/ nutrition should be alfalfa ( lets presume we can get it ). Yes or no.
Then if our foundation is alfalfa hay should our grain be fed at 11%?
If its pellets should it be 11% too?
So now onto grain
. If I understand correctly, grain should feed @ 11% protein, when feeding alfalfa as the foundation of the dairy goats diet. Sondras mix, I understand is 11% , so provided, we can get an 11% mix, with the ingredients recomended, for a start, that is ok. 
I know it is a lot more complex than this, but, with this basic formula, are we on the right track? Rome wasn't built in a day.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Yes, alfalfa or some other high calcium forage/hay for the main diet. In nature, goats eat lots of high nutrient shrubby plants, trees and grasses so we want to mimic that as closely as possible. For most of us, alfalfa is the easiest to get. 
Then the grain, whether it is pelletized or whole grain, is for increasing the calorie intake and balancing out the protein and nutrients in the alfalfa (or whichever kind of hay or forage you are using as your main diet).
I feed around a 12% total protein for my goats which is less than some other folks use but it works fine for my goats in my area.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Quentin, when I first got goats and found this forum, I, too, wanted a more simple answer. Well, I didn't get one and now I completely understand why. It's just not that simple.

It really depends on where you live, what you can get, what you can afford (or are willing to afford). It depends on whether you are a Grade A dairy, have goats "just" for home use, what condition your goat are in, are they lactating, are they dry, are they older, and the list goes on and on.

There are just so many factors involved in feeding them.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

There are so so many ways to feed animals, and a lot depends on the things Cindy just listed. There is no one way to have a successful feeding program, and there are many opinions on what is success.


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## hmcintosh (Jan 8, 2013)

Quentin, I so feel your pain. I understand what everyone is saying about it not being simple but there is times you just want to say tell me where to start and I will gradually learn the rest. I'm pretty sure that is how everyone raising goats has done. Start somewhere and learn as you go.


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

Taking things back to the basics was reason #1 for working my goats onto their current feeding regime. Alfalfa (free choice) + grass hay (free choice) + oats (in the quantity required to keep good condition) + sunflower oil as a fat source + loose minerals. The sunflower oil was a new addition once everyone hit late gestation this time and now that I've seen the results I will continue using it year round. 

I don't frown on folks that want to feed their goats 10 different things with lots of extras, it may work perfectly well for their herd. But personally I want to keep things as simple & easy as possible, with as few variables as possible, without leaving any gaps in their nutrition. It means my ingredients are always available locally, I don't have to mix, and there is very little variation in my ration. I can always add something in if I see a gap (like the fat)- but if I'm feeding 10 different things how do I know what is really working for me and what is just an added hassle and expense? That's my rationale.


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## hmcintosh (Jan 8, 2013)

I am wondering something. What keeps a goats hair looking good, sleek and shiny? I know if their wormy, or cocci, or having some other health problems it will cause skin problems and hair problems. I am not meaning that I am wondering what in the feed can help with a sleek, shiny coat of hair? I am thinking it is BOSS but I am sure someone out there knows.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Overall health of the goat, parasites, etc, but I think most hair coat problems, if they are utd on worm issues, is due to mineral deficiencies. Fat in the diet definitely helps, I think.


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

I'm like Nicki. I need simple. The hay I get is alfalfa-grass mixed, sometimes there is more alfalfa in it; sometimes less. I also feed a 50/50 mix of alfalfa pellets and oats. Free choice mineral. The alfalfa pellets are insurance for when there is less alfalfa in the hay. I've tried different things, but this is my favorite routine. If condition wanes, I have not found piling on the grain to be the answer. Quality forage is the backbone of my system. I can't wait to have pasture this summer, and not be dependent on hay feeding!!


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## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

SANDQ said:


> The best foundation, for a dairy goats diet/ nutrition should be alfalfa ( lets presume we can get it ). Yes or no.
> Then if our foundation is alfalfa hay should our grain be fed at 11%?
> If its pellets should it be 11% too?
> So now onto grain
> ...


I feed good quality alfalfa hay; and use a higher protein grain. It comes out to be 17% when it's rounded up...it's like .16 something...The grain is a mix I got from two Nubians breeders back when I started with the dairy goats (2006). I spent a few years switching how I fed them because I found several different ways through here and another dairy goat forum. In the end, I found the way I feed now works much better for my herd. So I went back to that and if it's not broke, don't fix it, mentality.


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

Quentin, I think what you will find is that everyone has a different feed plan because we all expect different things, at different times, from our goats. For a dairy that is dependent on high quantities of milk year-round, a higher protein feed and alfalfa will probably be used for best results. For those of us who don't care quite as much about high yields or are not on test, then we will probably go with whatever we can get easily and affordably. Well...so will the dairy folks I guess but when I was growing up in cow-dairy country in Oregon, all the farmers grew their own alfalfa and silage, so their costs were much less, presumably, than if they had to purchase their feeds. Of course, they had to invest in equipment which is never cheap. Frankly, I don't see how it hardly possible to see a profit with having to source all of our feed needs off the farm. We are at the mercy of whatever government or private party decides to jack prices of corn, fuel, etc. due to whatever-in-the-world....just name it, everything that happens causes a steep rise in feed prices. For the bag of feed I used to buy 6 years ago, which cost $10, it is now $16+ dollars. Quality alfalfa pellets are right at $17 per 50 pounds...and they are sold by the 40 pounds so it seems like less money  And potential milk customers are still complaining about the $8.00 a gallon price for milk that has not risen. I have had to change feeds many times to not go flat broke and had trouble last year with acidosis/milk fever and even lost a doe which to me is unacceptable. I have a zero-tolerance policy for preventable goat deaths, so that is my main driving force now. "Affordable feed that results in an adequate supply of milk, good weight maintenance, with no metabolic issues and no deaths."

There is never a one-size-fits-all answer for the nutrition question.


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## SANDQ (Dec 27, 2011)

In respones to all of your inputs, which I thank you for, I too want it economically viable and simple. I can get good quality alfalfa hay here no problem, and price wise it is on a few cents more than the cost of a grass hay bale. I fed alfalfa hay only instead of grass hay in the fall when I was flushing my does, and their milk out put increased dramatically. So for the sake of a few cents more a bale Im swithching to that. As for grains I just want it to be correct BUT SIMPLE. All of you do your own thing for your own reasons, and I dont want to be mixing up a selection of 5 different grains if 2 will do. I buy a premix at the moment which is 17% it is very powdery and too expensive. I want to stop feeding this but untill I know what to replace it with I have no choice. I see some of you feed only 2 ingedients, for example could I feed only Oats and Barley or oats and cracked corn or Barley and cracked corn, do you see where Im goling with this. At different times of year all these ingredients are different prices as you know, so I could chosse any combination of these ingredients, when ever they are the cheapest to buy.


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

I just use oats for a few reasons - oats have a pretty good fat profile on their own - 4.6%, oats are economical here, and oats are around 12% protein. Corn I don't like so much cause it is only 8% protein and brings down the total protein content of my ration, although there is some fat there. Plus with them turning it into biofuel, it really isn't cheap anymore. Barley and wheat are similar in protein content to oats, but lower in fat. Working with my grain elevator, there was no real economic benefit to mixing in additional grains. But crunch the numbers; there may be benefit to you in your location.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Most don't even get your goats don't even assimilate some of that sack of 17% dairy mix as protein, it's undigested as protein to a ruminant. Protien does not make milk, it does not give your goats condition, it grows bones and kids. So nothing is as simple as I added back a 17% mixed feed and everything is hunky dory when it wasn't on grain. Most also have no idea what their protein level is in the alfalfa hay, is it 12 is it 24? Are you after milk records, show wins or are you wanting healthy long lived does who produce well each and every day the whole lactation to pay their way? What most who use the presacked byproducts grains don't tell you is that they add 3 other products to it, usually some form of fat, some form of protein and some form of carbohydrate.....an old friend who swore by her feed, so much so her goat is on the package, added Boss, beet pulp and oats to her name brand feed...when in reality with a good mineral mix, oats, Boss and beet pulp are the backbone of her goats diet with the candy coated by products being expensive minerals.

If you look at it just like you stated....forage as the backbone, they have to have some form of calcium daily that is readily available (which means you have to know in your area what is causing your calcium deficiency even when alfalfa is fed. Grain in some form for energy (what corn is great for) oats and/or barley for calories, carbs, fat and I would add a fat source to that. But when feeding raw grain, you do not have the sticky molasses coating it to stick a mineral mix to, so you have to have a top notch mineral to add to your diet. No other forms of sodium needed.

COB, Corn Oats and Barley have been fed for decades to ruminants who produce milk.

If your goals aren't the goals of the person writing the post the point is moot. The goal is the reason so many posts differ so much.


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## SANDQ (Dec 27, 2011)

So I could if I chose, be really minamalistic and feed alfalfa hay as my foundation and only oats, both of which I can get here in Bulgaria easily.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Of course. I know you aren't all hip to ADGA  Who is  But the Considine's fed whole oats. He was the first one here, during HES, and evaluation service he did way back when, who started me thinking on mixing my own local products rather than sacked who know what is in it, feed, which went up to a whole $5 a bag  Now they are $13 and $14 a bag. They also mowed pastures and fed the chop, as much as the girls wanted, everyday in big hay wagons, it was the coolest although labor intensive program I have ever seen.

You do need to be on an excellent mineral program dealing with the problems you have locally when not feeding processed grain products, which of course nobody really can help you with that except the locals whom have stock you admire.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Quentin, that is exactly what I do (oats and alfalfa) and a fantastic loose mineral. I also wanted things to be very simple because I want to be able to enjoy raising goats for a long time. If it is a constant struggle with constant tweaking and losses it just wouldn't be feasible long-term.
The only thing I would change for myself at this point would be to grow my own things for my goats to eat so I would be less dependent on the feed store.


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## hmcintosh (Jan 8, 2013)

I am getting a mineral right now from up in virginia that is organic, right now my goats are not taking much of it. I have heard that if their not eating much minerals it means that don't need it.
Not sure of that but I would like to get some of the techmaster or whatever it is I hear people talk about just not sure where to find it. Does anyone know if there is anywhere to order it online and have it shipped?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

What would be in a normal mineral mix that is not organic?


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## SANDQ (Dec 27, 2011)

Excellent, this is probably the way I will go. It is not going to happen overnight as we are still on winter prices of last years stock, but as soon as this years alfalfa is cut and this years oats are harvested, it seems the way to go. You all mention how important minerals are, I dont feed loose but give my goats acsess to solid forms of minerals, 1 being a simple salt lick the second being a manufactured combined mineral lick both of which they lick regulally.


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

I'm sure it can be confusing for new goat owners to look on a forum, see different ways to feed and then get confused. I pretty much came up with what I feed on my own, taking ideas from breeders in my area. My goat mentor used to run a commercial dairy and came up with a formula for a 16% dairy goat pellet which is made by a feed mill in Great Falls and is now used by many goat breeders in the area. She usually feeds it straight or mixed with BOSS. I mix the pellets with whole oats on the milk stand and that combination mixed with alfalfa pellets in the goat yard. As show season nears, I add BOSS and shredded beet pulp. My goats get straight alfalfa hay. I don't know the exact protein amount, but it does have to be a minimum of 14% because my hay guy makes pellets with it that are guaranteed min. 14%. Another breeder I know feeds a mixture of oats and barley, while another breeder feeds a dairy goat ration made by a different mill that looks alot like Purina Goat Chow, but has more nutrients. The one thing we all do is feed alfalfa hay.


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## hmcintosh (Jan 8, 2013)

Ok let me rephrase that, It comes from a organic country store in virginia.


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## Kjen (May 20, 2013)

Please tell me what the "fantastic" mineral is. I'm liking the rest of our feeding program, as I get it tweaked, but am sure that our mineral is holding us back. Currently feeding Purina Goat Mineral plus we copper bolus 2X yearly.

We live in extreme NE Colorado. The Togg is milking(like crazy...still) in her first lactation. Our Ober doeling is due in 3 weeks and our Nigi wether is...supportive of the others. We only have 3 goats so could afford to get an exceptional mineral shipped in...if someone would tell me what that mineral would be or give some choices? Thanks for helping newbies!


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## hmcintosh (Jan 8, 2013)

Countryside organics has a goat mineral its located in north Carolina I think. I have been using right now onyx and my goats eat it up. I am switching to a mineral that was made by a man locally and it is now being sold thru distributors it is called Shegogg Creek Special goat mineral. During the trial period of it being used on goats and sheep (different for sheep but same brand) the farmers who used it didn't have to worm while using this mineral. So I am fixing to give it a try.


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## tlcnubians (Jan 21, 2011)

Quentin - although Vicki mentions above that Harvey Considine fed oats, it was my understanding that he fed nothing but alfalfa, free choice, to his goats. He ran a goat dairy operation in Wisconsin for many years. I do have a couple of cautions for you if you do feed just grain and alfalfa to your goats - (1) be sure they're getting enough copper in their diet; and (2) regarding minerals, most goat producers feed their animals loose minerals because continued scraping and licking a block can wear a goats' front teeth down. Other than this, I would say feed your goats what is readily available and cost effective in Bulgaria. The best way to know if your feeding program is working is to keep a close eye on your goats' health, appearance, activity level and milk output. If they perform well and are healthy when they eat what you feed them, then you've found a program that works for you.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Kjen said:


> Please tell me what the "fantastic" mineral is. I'm liking the rest of our feeding program, as I get it tweaked, but am sure that our mineral is holding us back. Currently feeding Purina Goat Mineral plus we copper bolus 2X yearly.
> 
> We live in extreme NE Colorado. The Togg is milking(like crazy...still) in her first lactation. Our Ober doeling is due in 3 weeks and our Nigi wether is...supportive of the others. We only have 3 goats so could afford to get an exceptional mineral shipped in...if someone would tell me what that mineral would be or give some choices? Thanks for helping newbies!


A good mineral is high in copper and has more than one form of copper, not just copper sulfate, ie. chelated copper, copper oxide, and I forget what else. Most minerals do not have enough copper, thus the need to copper bolus. We are deficient here (as well as being deficient in selenium), thus I copper bolus.

When my herd was smaller, I used Manna Pro Goat Mineral. You can get it at TSC or any farm store, probably. I can't afford it now that my herd is larger so I use a goat mineral made by Prince, but they are local; IL, IN, MI.


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