# Grit and Mozz



## buckrun

So Pav could you give us the most detailed rundown of making Mozz?
I am pleased to read I am not the only one who has trouble with this supposedly easy process.
And since I cannot progress to Provolone without this skill....

I have a question about very aged cheeses. 
What is the 'grit' that happens when it is very old and very ripened?
I love that - some people hate it but I guess maybe because I love the flavors that happen when the grit is present I include the mouth feel in with my positive reaction. Have wondered how it is formed. Thanks
Lee


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## Rose

Silly me. I thought you were going to post a recipe for grits and moz. :rofl


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## buckrun

Southern Italian?


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## linuxboy

Hi Lee, I posted my mozz method and details in this post http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,13263.msg142486.html#msg142486

This is for a farmstead style mozz where the only special thing you need is rennet. If you're looking to replicate a specific mozz, it will take different milk and a different starter, and perhaps slightly different make details.

Do you want it more detailed than what I posted? I can, for example, write it out to where I have steps numerically and after each step I write about the science of why this is necessary and give some more tips and tricks... like what happens if you XYZ. I could do that, but have to find some time.

I cal also post how to do it by using titratable acidity or a pH meter.

As for the grit, it is two possible things, either calcium lactate or tyrosine crystals, which is an amino acid that results from cheese aging. I have a bunch of stuff in my head for the possible causes and conditions that make each more or less probable. Do you want to figure out how to create those crystals on purpose? Or were you just curious?


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## buckrun

I just need to learn to do mozz correctly so it stretches. I will try what you have written altho I have lots of books and recipes. No more time needed now. Thanks. I will tell you when next I flop. The chickens like Mozz day.

Any info you want to share on grits is fine- no stress tho. I did some 18 month Parmesan that was so gritty and made my gills flap YUM and was surprised because I thought it took longer so then figured it was some cause and effect besides time. Yah- just curious but like it too so wouldn't mind setting up conditions for it. One thing about this Parmesan that was different than my norm- I had lots of cheese going so I had to use the small 3 inch diameter mold in the press and so it was really more like a log than a wheel-does form have any effect? Thanks. 
Lee


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## linuxboy

Meh, I don't mean to disrespect the people in the cheese book community like Ricky, Margaret, Debra, Peter, Paul, etc (I think they have done so much for cheesemaking), but I find many recipes are difficult to translate into consistent results. Like I have read few mentions on flocculation (Paul and Peter do cover it), and few mention exact pH targets... I understand, many of those are trade secrets, and a pH meter isn't practical for many people, and commercial recipes and techniques don't always translate well, and it's so difficult to convey expert knowledge one has into words. But even with all that, it should be possible to craft an exact method to produce good results even with variable milk. Maybe the point is that they want to drive their class and seminar attendance to learn the hands on stuff? I don't know. Some people also focus on specific cheese styles and philosophies. Peter Dixon, for example, likes combining thermo and meso cultures to try and achieve complex cascades of proteolytic reactions. 

My mozz recipe I just posted is pretty good. Incorporates some commercial practices and makes them more accessible for home cheesemaking. Sorry, I don't have many things written down for easy pasting.. it's all in my head, so it's not formatted really pretty. If something doesn't work, let me know. 

The surface area to volume ratio does influence tyrosine formation.. the major factors are rate of moisture loss and the length of aging and temp.


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## buckrun

> The surface area to volume ratio does influence tyrosine formation


Thank you- With 2 more fresh we are really in the milk now so I'm off to try again.

L


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## linuxboy

To follow up on this, tyrosine and lactate crystals are both influenced by the interchange of bacterial culture and colloidal calcium phosphate. In simpler terms, there is a calcium salt that bind the caseins together in milk. It's a sort of glue that enables milk to be a colloid. This salt is degraded by lactic acid as it forms. Bacteria produce lactic acid at different rates. If you trap more of the calcium in the curd and don't let bacteria eat all of the lactose right away, then you will get more crystals.

Crystals are most common on gouda and parmesan because for these two styles, you either wash the acidity away with water and drain rather quickly, or you don't let the acidity build and cook the curds very hot (parmesan). So naturally, with more calcium left in the cheese, it has to go somewhere as the proteins break up due to aging, and it often goes into the crystals.

Some styles you just cannot achieve crystals with and some are more prone to it.


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## mulish

pav, are these crystals considered a desirable feature in some of these cheeses, like perfect holes are in swiss, or are they just a mouthfeel characteristic that someone might mention in tasting notes?


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## linuxboy

They are considered to be a fault in most cheeses, especially ones produced as bulk commodities, like cheddar. Apparently, most people do not like the crunch or appearance of them. Most expect to bite a cheese and feel a creaminess or sharpness. In some very specialty goudas they are considered desirable.


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## mulish

That makes sense. an aged gouda is the first thing that comes to mind for me in the crystal category, and then maybe parmesan - but i almost always grate parm.


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## buckrun

That's odd- What age of gouda? I have never had a Gouda make crystals. I don't associate grit with Gouda! Creamy is gouda.

But I just don't think the seriously aged cheeses are complete without the grit. Like viejo manchego and great extra aged Romano.
I received a 10 year white extra sharp cheddar as a gift and it has crystals. DIVINE- the stuff is layered like flakes of obsidian no matter how you slice it - it flakes- oh it is so so good! I just associate that mouth feel with older more full flavored cheeses.
And it cannot possibly be a fault since I am trying so hard to accomplish it!!! :/


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## Bernice

Ten year aged cheddar? Ooooooo I didn't know that cheeses were that old and still ediable. I LOVE aged cheddar, especially Cracker Barrel or the aged chedar from Swiss Colony. Was this homemade Lee or was it store bought? You have me droolin' fro some, pass the napkin please! LOL


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## buckrun

It's Carr Valley- not me! My record is 18 months. 
yum


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## mulish

yum - this thread makes my mouth water!
Lee, i don't know how old it is, but the aged gouda is dry and more pricey than the younger ones, of course. I have to be careful if I happen to sit near a wedge of it, as I'm known to shave slice after slice off with a fruit peeler. . .


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## hsmomof4

10 years...no way could I wait that long to try a cheese if I had made it myself!


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