# Heat cycle in goat that is pregnant?



## blessedbountyfarm (Nov 14, 2012)

Hello- I am somehwat new here and new to goats. I bought 2 nubians in October from another member on here that had confirmed pregnancies when I purchased them. When they arrived here, one started bleeding the next day and the other a couple of days later. With the second goat, we never saw her actually pass the fetus or placenta, the bleeding stopped after a week so I went on the assumption that she was still pregnant. Yesterday she had white stringy mucus and looked pink and swollen and our buck did breed her while I was with her yesterday. Is it possible that she is still pregnant and had a false cycle? She was originally bred on August 26th and this was December 26th that I saw the signs of her cycle and the breeding. The lady that I purchased the goats from suggested that I get bloodwork done to see if she is still pregnant. From the blood work numbers, can I tell how pregnant she is? Our other girl has not shown any signs of a heat yet and we were expectng her to cycle in January again based on the date she aborted her fetus.

Thank you for any input!
Heidi


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

I would assume they both aborted due to the stress of the move. I'd send in blood for a preg check on both, just to be sure. If the one you just bred did abort previously, you'll have a very low number, if anything, I'm guessing. On the other doe, the results should come back "open". If they don't, then you know she kept her pregnancy.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

And welcome to the forum!


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## nlhayesp (Apr 19, 2012)

When you send blood work in to Biotracking, they do a great job of explaining the results. You will get the hormone level, as well as an explanation. Last year when I sent in three samples, it showed two with high (pregnant) levels and one mid-range. The mid-range doe lost her pregnancy, but I didn't see any signs of it for about 10 days after I had gotten the results back. It is a good idea to have them run the cae test at the same time for $3 more.


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## mamatomany (Aug 7, 2008)

I'm not sure if you can test for chlamidia (sp?) or how to do that, I would have them tested for that. I have sold and purchased bred does numerous times without issues. Sorry your having to go thru this  So late in the season doesn't help. Also general nutritional deficiencies can cause animals to abort. How was their condition when you got them? How about parasites? Do you have other goats that could have been fighting with them to cause them to abort? Both? Geesh...that just doesn't sound right? Where are you located....you didn't indicate that on your signature line?


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## blessedbountyfarm (Nov 14, 2012)

Ok, thank you for the advice. I am going to biotrack and also draw blood for some additional disease testing besides the CAE that was already done and fecal test as well. We have had a lot of discussions about what may have happened but that is water under the bridge now.... just moving forward and ready for some babies and milk! The girls seem to be in very good health and hopefully I will have all my bases covered now.  I appreciate your responses!


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

A doe wouldn't stand and let a buck breed her if she was bred. I would wait 30 days from the breeding and then pull your blood to biotracking to see if your doe is bred, and for CAE. We have had does also who were confirmed bred by biotracking and us, who later were obviously not bred, but two? I would also be worried about abortive disease. How long were they at your farm when they aborted? Goats don't abort because of the stress of the move, they early abort from disease, they absorb kids and only produce singles or weak kids via disease and poor nutrition. One aborting is normal, but not both. Were they both bred to the same buck at the other farm. 

Early in pregnancy you don't see placenta or fetus, you see a very wet maybe streaked with blood tail, that is it. Most people miss this if the does are not in milk and the doe simply gets fatter due to feeding her like she is pregnant and she doesn't freshen in the spring. They would have to be in later pregnancy to have a normal abortion of fetuses and placentas that you see. In all these years I have only seen one early fetus the size of cocktail shrimp.

Did you add these does into your pens of other goats, or are they your only does? Now fighting, that could be the explanation also for the abortions if you have herd queens like mine. 

Welcome to the forum! Vicki


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## blessedbountyfarm (Nov 14, 2012)

Vicki, if I wait 30 days and then test and it is confirmed.... can I tell from the numbers how far along she is? Based on the original date she was due to kid in January and I am worried about getting a surprise. The previous owner had a post on this called Unthinkable in November that you were advicing her on. We were both trying to figure out what happened at that time.... These girls seem to be in good health at this point. I was planning to pull fecals again soon just to recheck and also use pan american for disease testing (CL, BR, TOX and Johnnes) on the girls and our new NG dwarf buck. I have CAE reports on both girls that were done right before they arrived here. I had to check my calendar, they arrived here mid November and were bred in August. There was no stress in the ride here, they were in the back of my subrurban and very calm and went to straight into the goat pen we built for them that has never held any other animals. We have chickens here but not in the goats area. I now know that I probaby should have sent off the the first goats fetus for testing but did not know that at the time- it was my first week as a goat owner. The goat now is question had a lot of bleeding and clots dropping but I am now wondering if she just absorbed the fetus? I have a lot to learn and am a little confused. She clearly was in a standing heat on December 26th and was happy to let the buck breed her. He is little so I held her still for him but she was very calm and did not try to move away. The girls came from a clean herd... but my understanding is that I can't test for chlamydia without a fetus for sampling? I see no symptoms of this illness. My other question now... if I wait 30 days to test should I pull the grain now that I have been feeding her? We gave the CDT Dec 6th and added grain at that time to her diet of alfalfa pellets, coastal hay and free chioce minerals and soda.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

There is no way that you would not be able to tell if these does were due in January. Wide load, obvious udder formation, no matter what age they are. But no, it's pregnant or not, although a lowered number did indicate for us that she was having a cloudburst (fluid without kids).

Although Pan Am is fine for the other testings (most of which will tell you nothing, in all the brokering we did for 8 years, two times a year we exported to Mexico, does from diaries, does from breeders, some coming in, in the most god awful conditions, we never in hundreds of tests had one goat positive for TB or Brucilosis. A positive for Toxoplasmosis is meaningless, only on placenta will it tell you a doe aborted because of it, on blood it simply means she has immunity to it or is a carrier, which means another pregnancy to see what is going on, by then you have another abortion and placenta to test. Johnnes isn't going to tell you anything, if it did, the cow industry would use it, you really need to not just blood test Elissa and AGID with Johnnes but also the manure, expensive and time consuming and if you get a positive, you could copper bolus her and get a negative the next month. Don't waste your money.

Use biotracking.com for your CAE test. With the stress of the move to your new home, with the abortion and now breeding if this doe had CL you would have seen an abscess. And an abscess tested is your only 100% diagnosis of CL on your farm.

If it was an abortive disease the herd they came from would also be experiencing this. 

So the doe that you bred to your pygmy is now passing more blood ad clots? This can be seen first heat (because the cervic opens back up) after a bad delivery, after a abortion where they doe has not absorbed everything. I think I have your two goats confused 

If I do have them confused do you mind explaining it again with doe 1 and doe 2 in two separate paragraphs??


So much of this is, wait and see. That far along and I would have lutelysed her to make sure she did pass everything.

If you want me to read the post link it here, if you think it will help. 

On the grain, what is her condition? Is she well grown? If she is an she is not uddered up getting ready to kid in January, yes I would take away her grain. Vicki


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## blessedbountyfarm (Nov 14, 2012)

Ok, I am not very tech savvy, I was trying to figure out how to link up.. Not sure :help2
Goat 1- She had bloat at original farm about a month before we got her.... this was from getting into chicken feed. She was treated and recovered fine. All was well but then the day that we were traveling to come get the girls the second goat developed scours. I went ahead and took the girls home as we had a drive to get there and I was anxious to get the girls home after a couple of months of planning for their arrival.... the previous owner treated them both with horse quest gel (cydectin) for worm load after an eye check and the scours in Goat 2. I have read that others have thought that the cydectin could cause a goat to abort. I know it is commonly used and she did the correct dosage. But the cydectin was done right before I moved them here and I wondered if this was caused by that and the stress of a move? Goat 1 began bleeding the day after arriving here and within a few days was bleeding heavily with clots and then passed the fetus and placenta. The fetus was about 5 inches long. It was believed that she will have another heat in January based on the orginal August breeding. 

I gave goat 2 with scours probios, and drenched with gatorade and she recovered fine. She began to bleed a week after the first goat and dropped a lot of blood clots. It lasted a little over a week and we never found the fetus. No, she is not clotting now. She has been fine since and then Dec 26th had white mucus and was pink and swollen. The buck bred her minutes after I noticed the mucus. I see no widened load or udder formation which I had been thinking that something should be changing at this point. She is not overweight and after I added 1/2 cup of grain to her 1 pound of alfalfa pellets I noticed that she tends to not finish it all.... She does eat slowly but she always finished the alfalfa off before I added grain. 

I could not get anyone here to let me use their buck for breeding because I did not have that list of disease testing done on them. That was my only reason for thinking I should have them on hand? So we went ahead and bought our own buck in December to get around this issue and I was afraid I might not get them bred if I tried to do a driveway breeding. He came from a clean and closed herd but I do need to get his CAE done for this year.
I hope this all makes sense! LOL


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## blessedbountyfarm (Nov 14, 2012)

One more thing... the goats are sisters. Could that have something to do with having such similar issues going on?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Cydectin did not cause the does to abort (very poor information whoever is giving that to you). Anything you do to a doe in the implantation period (7 to 11 days) could cause her to not implant, but you would not see abortion, just an early pregnant doe back in heat again. If anything 'caused' the abortion it was the chicken feed and bloat/acidosis process. A doe can simply absorb the whole thing when ill like this. But you add that second doe aborting it does make me pause. Do you know if these does were friends? Was there a LOT of fighting when they got to your home? Just because two does are purchased together doesn't mean they like each other or are near in pecking order.

Most does will recycle after aborting that early in the season. You will have to have the buck near her to be able to detect the heat, which grow shorter and shorter and more silent even in Nubians as the year progresses.

1/2 a cup of grain is pretty meaningless so if she enjoys it continue. If she was this far along in breeding you would have wanted to be closer to a pound morning and night as she approached kidding in January. 

Are the bucks you will be using to outside breed your does, negative on all those tests they are making you run? NO  Pick yourself up a really nice Nubian buckling to breed your does to this spring (unless you want to raise miniature nubians...and make them breeders jump through all these hoops they set for you  Better yet, don't purchase anything from them  Sorry they did this to you and are giving you such awful advice, it's almost as if they don't want you to succeed.

I would eventually test this buck for CAE, your ND. But that is mostly for resale. The buck isn't going to give your does anything breeding them.

Once confirmed bred about 30 days, you might want to consider putting a feed through tetracycline (areomycin we have the info in goatkeeping 101 on using it) adding it to that little bit of grain you feed, both for the does (who likely are now immune if they do have an abortive disease) but also to the buck who has now bred them. 

Is the first doe now bred again, if not, you might want to see about giving her 2cc IM of lutelyse, make sure she does not pass anything else and it also will bring her back into heat faster for you. Not much of breeding season left for us to catch her. Vicki


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## blessedbountyfarm (Nov 14, 2012)

Ok, this all makes sense. These two does are sisters and very good friends. They do not fight at all. There were only 3 other goats at the farm they came from- 2 wethers and a doe. She had a NG dwarf buck running with the herd but he left after the girls were bred and went back to the neighboring farm. All gentle. No fighting has happened here at all. I did not see any signs of Goat 1 going into heat. The buck was interested in her when he arrived mid December and then this week when Goat 2 went into heat... he wants nothing to do with Goat 1 now. I was wondering if I missed it and he bred her? Either way, I assume that in 30 days I should biotrack both girls for pregnancy?
I have Goat 2 at almost a cup of grain now.... thinking that I needed to continue to increase it for the pregnancy even though at 1/2 cup she was not finishing the bucket completely. So I will move back to 1/2 cup since that is not going to affect her weight and hopefully she is now bred. Some days she finishes it off and others days she does not-

I appreciate all the advice!


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

A dry, early pregnant doe, that is not growing, doesn't need any grain, so you can stop it until she's about a month from kidding if you want, but a cup, like you say, probably isn't going to hurt anything on a full-size Nubian doe.


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