# Do black bears eat goats??



## foggybottom (Mar 7, 2009)

:help
Been reading very recently where folks across the river in southern Wisconsin have been spotting black bears. Was just thinking this morning that "well you can have them, don't need them here across the river eating my goats!" Got home from work today, and mom calls & said they seen a rather large black bear near their garden! 
They are about 3 miles from me. A police car was driving slowly up & down the highway, and heard that other people were looking for it too. Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on goats & black bears? My son has shown me how to shoot his "big gun". :biggrin I am afraid if I seen a bear out looking at my goats I would grab a hammer or baseball bat & go after it without thinking......blahhhhh


----------



## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

I wouldn't doubt it. I know they eat tents and sleeping pads. :nooo


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Your avatar is so sweet!
Be sure about your laws if you take it on by yourself. When we lived in NoCal you had to have a dead livestock animal or torn up valuable something or other to show along with the dead bear- they are semi-protected there. A dog is usually enough of a deterrent.
L~


----------



## Sharpgoat (Feb 7, 2008)

I have a friend in Colorado that has LSG Dogs to guard his human kids when they are in the yard playing from bears.
Fran


----------



## Jo~* (Oct 26, 2007)

Well I live in Nor California and we have black bears. For the most part we have been very few problems. Once in a while there will be a problem bear. Don't leave any garbage out for them to get into. If you have any ripe fruit on the ground you may want to keep it picked up also. Do what you can to discourge them from wanting to hang around. Once while I was walking in the woods I ran into one, we just took one look at each other and went our own ways. YES I was scared. I worry more about MT. lions. Black bears would rather not be around you BUT if food is scarce and they are just out from hibernation they can be more bold. Good luck.


----------



## Seamus (Apr 9, 2009)

Bears are omnivorous, so, it could be possible. I don't have them here, but there are other predators to worry about. Stay safe.


----------



## mamatomany (Aug 7, 2008)

There is a cave by us near a stream and there was a really big paw print around by the creek recentely...eeeekkk...also my neighbor said that his cat was attacked by a red fox...I wonder if they would eat goats...probably right? I know they would like my chickens for sure


----------



## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

yep keep the gun handy and SSS


----------



## foggybottom (Mar 7, 2009)

Thanks for all the thoughts, I am more relaxed with it this morning....Will just have to be alert (and keep my bullet in my pocket like Barney Fife?). Yesterday I thought for SURE that this one probably lone bear out of all the counties around here, would make a beeline right to my goatbarn. :crazy


----------



## Judys (Feb 19, 2009)

someone on one of the forums had a black bear break into their barn and kill their goat kids. Belive she was in Colorado


----------



## MamaGoat (Mar 18, 2009)

I'd think that the smaller ones would be more at risk. Adult Oberhaslis are not all that small and even though a black bear probably could eat one I don't know that it would be worth it to them to try (especially if your adults have horns) unless they were really desperate. But I can see a black bear going after a young goat really easily. I think that JoAnn gave you some really good advice, an once of prevention is worth a pound of cure. To my understanding bears are more opportunits than hunters so try to minimize the attractiveness of your property and you should be fine. 

But yes, keep the gun handy just in case!


----------



## foggybottom (Mar 7, 2009)

Very good advice, thanks all. Hopefully the hound will bark if anything gets anywhere near here.


----------



## SALTCREEK_Nubians_Linda (Nov 13, 2007)

Bears are omnivores. That means they will eat anything they can get which doesn't eat them first. What eats bears? :??? Keeps an ear open for the hound. Hope none come in too close to you.


----------



## Madfarmer (Nov 18, 2008)

Horns are NO PROTECTION against a determined predator. Five-strand, high-tensile electric fence whill deter bears.

Tom


----------



## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Also, be sure if you need to use a gun that you have the right weapon with the right rounds. In my handgun carry permit class, we saw what can happen when you try using a tiny handgun against an attacking bear... not good. It only makes them more angry.


----------



## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

Actually, black bear's diet is mostly herbaceous. The 10-15% animal part of their diet includes mostly insects, yellow jackets, termites, fish, eggs, etc. Otherwise these mostly live on berries, herbs, nuts, etc. They are not a predator animal though. THe exception would be as mentioned goat kids (they may seem easy enough target), fawns, new born calves, but it's not typical at all and cases are specific to areas where natural diet is not sufficient. They do like to raid people's trash following the smell (camping or residential areas). 

If you had a brown bear or grizzly roaming your area, I would worry 

Jana


----------



## MamaGoat (Mar 18, 2009)

Jana, that was my thought as well. I don't expect that any goat would be able to fight off a bear using their horns, my point was more that I expect the horns to be a visual deterrant to a bear. A goat kid is small and helpless looking and might give a desperate bear reason enough to try and eat it but a full grown horned Oberhasli is a bit more of an intimidating prospect to a bear and it would likely pass on by. I'm not saying it would not happen, just saying that I think the chances decrease. Black bears are omnivores and will eat anything, but they are not big hunters and are not likely to try and chase and kill anything of that size I don't think.


----------



## MamaGoat (Mar 18, 2009)

Von, here is a bunch of articles about black bear deterrents. It looks like it should not be too hard to keep them from coming around and fairly easy to scare them off if they do. Hope that this helps to put your mind at ease!

Extensive article on bear deterrents: http://www.extension.org/pages/Black_Bear_Damage_Management

General black bear info and opportunistic feeding habits: http://www.dnr.state.md.us/dnrnews/infocus/blackbear.html

Apparently black bears are more likely to eat your corn and bird food than your goats: http://www.pubs.ext.vt.edu/420/420-200/420-200.html

A bit on black bear attacks on goats: http://www.extension.org/pages/Black_Bear_Overview

Deterring bears with motion sensor lights and noise (1st article), and an article about bears in urban environments (4th article): http://www.wcs.org/wcspubs/wcsreports/2709347#bears


----------



## SALTCREEK_Nubians_Linda (Nov 13, 2007)

Yes, I know. Even the grizzlies in Yellowstone have a high percentage of their diet as vegetation and insects. They'd rather not be injured while having a meal if they can avoid it. Bears are very intelligent and learn what is a dangerous thing for them and what is not. The electric fence hurts them. If they have not been rewarded with a great meal on the other side of it, then it would probably keep them from wanting to touch it again. Black bears _Ursa americana_ are more timid than grizzlies _Ursa horribilus_, thank goodness, and easier to scare off with noise and other stuff. That's why when you are hiking in bear country you sing, talk loudly, etc... because it gives the bear a chance to get away before you surprise it and have a dangerous confrontation with it. A surprised bear is a dangerous bear and they have a very large "personal space." Don't want to get in it. Even black bears can become unafraid however and learn where good food is, and even become man eaters. Once they have done it, they will do it again. Those bells some people put on their backpacks as a noise maker to deter bears??? In Yellowstone the staff call those dinner bells. The bears have learned that those bells mean someone is there probably with food in the pack, and they come toward the sound. This leads to a dangerous confrontation. NO FIREARMS inside the park allowed. A black bear who isn't frightened by you or any noise you make, comes toward you and keeps coming toward you, though you are backing away from it, has a very unhealty interest in you. (It's rare, but it has happened) Grab something large and hold it between you and the bear and keep yelling at it while you are backing away. Try to make yourself look as scary and large as possible. Do not run, do not climb a tree, do not turn your back on it. Keep backing up until you are inside your house or other sturdy structure. Leave the goats to their fate. You do NOT want to tangle with a bear who behaves like this. Black bears will almost always run away, but there is that ONE in a thousand who will not. The goats are not worth your life. A bear can smell a twinkie wrapper inside your closed and locked vehicle and a full grown adult male black bear CAN tear the door off the vehicle to get the wrapper if he wants to. A bear standing on his hind legs is just checking you out. A bear who is agitated by your presence and will likely charge if you don't go away will stand with it's side to you and pounce up and down on it's front legs making a huffing noise. Heed that warning.

As an old former backpacker, here is my favorite tool for announcing my presence to a bear: An old steel pie tin and a wooden spoon. Bang, Bang, Bang. They hear it. If it runs, don't shoot, just let it run. You don't want it to stop or turn around.

Now, at your place with your goats. You are more likely to find the black bear wanting to eat your goat's food before it tries to taste your goat or your tiny baby goats. Be especially vigilent about keeping odors in check around kidding time. Keep all trash, food and such in bear-proof containment so the bear will not find an easy meal near you. Be sure you make noise to let a bear know you are coming if you've seen signs of one. He doesn't want to see you any more than you want to see him. Be sure NOT to surprise one up close and personal, if you can avoid it. About the gun. Yes, get the right calibre with ammo and become very good at using it. An injured bear is an angry bear and a very dangerous bear indeed. If you're going to use it, use it for keeps.

We have cougars here ON our 40 acres. Have seen it a few times at night. During early morning or right at sunset is the most dangerous for us. We'll never see it coming if it is. Our goats refuse to browse in the woods, thank goodness. I watch them and if they are afraid of a certain place, we walk cautiously away from there. My horse is another good guide. The black bears are moving up the Arkansas River valley through OK. I live there. :biggrin There has been one sighting near us about 5 miles away along a little tributary creek....which we live along. We have a 270, loaded, on safety. (no children in our house or it would be unloaded & locked in the gun cabinet) It's as large as we've got, but may not be large enough for bear. It's for deer hunting.

Don't keep the bullet in your pocket. If you ever need it, it's not going to do you any good there.


----------



## foggybottom (Mar 7, 2009)

Thanks for all the info, some very informative stuff. Latest news, the bear was sighted a few miles west of the original place on Monday, then one was seen at a town 30 miles away, if it was the same one it would have had to run like heck to get there in that time. I think there are probably several. Don't know if DNR would be dropping these off to control deer population (there are plenty of hunters that would do a great job of that if they could....) Also heard of a big cat spotted about 7 miles away very near where I grew up. Hmmmm not what I like to hear either. What concerns me is our garage has 2 doors (that don't work very well,) and one bay without a door, so it is an open garage, with garbage cans.....have told hubby I want doors!! Again, thanks for the info & links.


----------



## MamaGoat (Mar 18, 2009)

I'd be much more worried about the big cat than the bear. A mountain lion is much more of a danger not only to your goats but to your family. A big cat can and will attack even full grown adults if they are desperate enough for food. If you have children and there is a mountain lion in your area I'd be keeping a close eye on the children, especially at dawn and dusk. People don't usually spot mountain lions either so the fact that this one has gotten brave enough around people that someone spotted it is a bad sign. Still as long as you are careful and take steps to make your property as unattractive as possible to predators so should be OK. I lived in Southern California for years where there is a large coyote population. We had indoor/outdoor cats that lived to a ripe old age of 18 without ever being eaten, and that's living in a house that backed up on a canyon full of coyote!


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Yes - worry about cats. They climb. Signal dogs are the only defense against cats. Even bobcats can absolutely trash your herd. And fences mean nothing to them. 

Lee


----------



## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

When the bears first come out of hibernation, they are hungry and would probably try goat if available. However, if there is enough natural food around, I doubt they would bother the goats too much. If there is a drought or some other thing that makes food scarce, then I would worry.


----------



## foggybottom (Mar 7, 2009)

Latest word is that "the" bear is about 50 miles away now, personally I don't think it's the same one, but......to get where it supposedly did overnight it would have had to RUN without stopping. But no more sightings. Radio says it is a young male who was probably looking for love and wandered too far south. I have yet to hear more about the cat, but am keeping alert. The worst things we've had around here has been coyotes, and I suppose the threat from dogs is always there. Boy I sure did panic the first time I heard about the bear though! Guess you just never know.


----------



## jcran (Feb 17, 2009)

Jo~* said:


> Well I live in Nor California and we have black bears. For the most part we have been very few problems. Once in a while there will be a problem bear. Don't leave any garbage out for them to get into. If you have any ripe fruit on the ground you may want to keep it picked up also. Do what you can to discourge them from wanting to hang around. Once while I was walking in the woods I ran into one, we just took one look at each other and went our own ways. YES I was scared. I worry more about MT. lions. Black bears would rather not be around you BUT if food is scarce and they are just out from hibernation they can be more bold. Good luck.


A bear just ate one of the wethers I sold a lady. She called to say the bear just reached over the fence and pulled him out; they found the carcass at the bottom of the ravine near their house. I'm near Eureka, Ca and we have lots of bear, in town and in the surrounding woods. They are opportunistic and if livestock is easy to get, they will.


----------



## SALTCREEK_Nubians_Linda (Nov 13, 2007)

Just keep a look-out for scrapings on trees when they mark their territory. Look for bear scat (which sort of looks a lot like people poo only larger, according to my DD who has worked in Yellowstone for 2 Summers) and look for tracks in muddy places. Make a lot of noise when you're out and about. Black bears are mostly timid and don't want to see you anyway. They are also extra hungry in the fall when they are storing up fat for the winter hibernation.  In the South they may not really hibernate like northern animals and may be seen out on nice winter days. The most dangerous bear is a sow with cubs. If you see a cub, be wary and get away from there because mother bears are always nearby and are easily proviked to protect their young. They also will bury any food they can't finish in one sitting. They will make a mound of dirt, rocks, tree branches, etc... anything to cover the carcass of a deer _or a goat_ so they can come back to eat more later. The mound can be up to 4 or 5 fee high. They don't go very far from their cached food either and will defend it. If you see a strange-loking mound like this somewhere in the woods, do not investigate it, get away from it with all haste, but do so cautiously and don't run. Running from a bear switches on a predator/prey alert to the bear, just like running from a strange or aggressive dog or behaving afraid of it. The dog will switch into predator mode and more likely attack you. It's the same with the big cats. Don't run and don't turn your back to it. People who get attacked are often jogging or riding a bicicle, never knowing they are being watched. The cat interprets this as prey behavior. There was a woman north of here attacked, thankfully she got mainly superficial scratches. She raises dogs and noticed about dusk that a puppy had somehow gotten out of it's chain-link kennel. ???? So she went to put the puppy back inside. She saw bushes rustling nearby but didn't think a lot about it until the cougar charged her, scratched up her arm and ran back into the woods. She threw the pup back into it's kennel and ran to the house and called 911. The wildlife department had been denying that there are any cougars here. But after this episode, plus a train hit one about 40 miles west of here (a local train, not one which came from another state) and an OHP car hit and killed one just south of us on hwy 18. They can no longer deny that the cats are here. We even have a black one roaming around here. People are saying it can't be a cougar because cougars don't have a black phase. I don't know. I do know that before people settled in OK and TX Jaguars were native here and they do have a black color phase. Whatever it is, it is not a dog and can outrun a pick-up truck, can leap 8 feet high and clear 10 feet of high grass next to a fenceling and be gone. There are also prairie wolves back here too. They used to be native here. They are only slightly larger than a large coyote but the color is a bit different. And now we've had a few black bear sightings. Arkansas reintroduced them oh, about 20 years or so, into the Ozarks, because they have always been part of the natural ecosystem in the Ozarks and they had been nearly wiped out by hunting. Before the wildlife department admitted the cats were here, I'm not sure if we'd have gotten in trouble for shooting one. they are protected now. Since they admit they are here now. The bears have been so sucessful in the Ozarks that they are expanding up the Arkansas river valley and tributaries. There is a HUGE population of white-tail deer here and they needed some pressure from some predator. The deer were getting smaller due to overpopulation around here, even though there is an ample hunting season and you can get a permit to take a buck and two does with a rifle, and also one to take any sex deer with bow and arrow or black powder rifle. So each hunter, if he desires to, could take up to 4 deer a year in this county. At last count the population here was the highest of any county in the state. So I try not to worry too much. The large predators have an ample food source here.


----------



## MamaGoat (Mar 18, 2009)

Joan, that's terrible about the wether you sold! That must have been a shock for the poor lady!


----------



## Jo~* (Oct 26, 2007)

jcran said:


> Jo~* said:
> 
> 
> > Well I live in Nor California and we have black bears. For the most part we have been very few problems. Once in a while there will be a problem bear. Don't leave any garbage out for them to get into. If you have any ripe fruit on the ground you may want to keep it picked up also. Do what you can to discourge them from wanting to hang around. Once while I was walking in the woods I ran into one, we just took one look at each other and went our own ways. YES I was scared. I worry more about MT. lions. Black bears would rather not be around you BUT if food is scarce and they are just out from hibernation they can be more bold. Good luck.
> ...


You keep them Eureka bears down there and not up here in Crescent City.
Oh and I'm glad to see someone thats not to far from me on here. I was starting to think everyone lives in Texas.


----------



## jcran (Feb 17, 2009)

Crescent City? You are my next door neighbor! The lady who bought the wether seemed pretty unphased, I guess since she's got another wether from me still. I did mention that they should run hotwire to deter the bear, but once they get the taste, I doubt a little hotwire is going to stop them.


----------



## Jo~* (Oct 26, 2007)

A friend of mine once put ammonia in jugs around her fence to discourage one bear that was extra troublesome. It was a Cinnamon colored black bear that was causing damage in the neighborhood.


----------



## Rose (Oct 26, 2007)

Coso and Yarrow, we have a bear in our area now. Lonnie saw him. I stepped in bear scat.


----------

