# Tiny bumps all over the outside of the udder???



## Ravens Haven (Oct 26, 2007)

Hi all,

I have two does fresh and one dry that have tiny bumps all over their udders, two are really bad and one not so much. What is this and how do I treat it? I keep it washed and dry, milk those two last with gloves on..what if anything can treat this stuff?

Thansk
Autumn


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## homeacremom (Nov 6, 2007)

Sounds like something I saw once on someone else's does. It was either strep or staph and I think chlorahexadine sp? washes took care of it....
Not much help am I :blush


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

yep chlorahexadine but imagin it is staph. Sue Reith had me using antibiotics for 10 days and also BoSe injections for 10 days and it cleared up. 
Some have used diluted tea tree oil on the udder also. But keeping the udder dry is also important.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

I read in a natural farmsteading book that this problem needs a copper deficient host.
Lee


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## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

If you have any other milking does that are in milk now or about to freshen I would get a bottle of Lysigin http://www.pbsanimalhealth.com/cattlevac/lysigin.html
I would vaccinate everyone, 5ccs IM, including the ones with the Staff on their udder. In 2 weeks I would vaccinate them again with a booster shot of 5 ccs. Clean and dry as mentioned above.
Once these does have had their first shot and their booster shot then be sure to give them an annual vaccination a couple of weeks prior to freshening next year.


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

:yeahthat Everything Christine just typed. The lysigin really helps. 
Kaye


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## Rose (Oct 26, 2007)

Treat it NOW! I thought my doe had gotten bitten by fire ants, and by the time I realized what it was, she had a large oozy sore.


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## Ravens Haven (Oct 26, 2007)

I will give everyone Lysigin tomorrow. So do I need to do the 10 days of antibiotics and 10 doses of Bo-Se... if so, what kind of antibiotics...this one doe does this every year but it seems to get better later on, I just looked at her records.

Autumn


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## reedfarm (Mar 21, 2008)

We had this problem too. It seemed to get a lot better when we started using Fight-bac Spray. We used it as an overall spray on the udder and teats. A little expensive, but it worked!


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Agree Lee, there is a defficency in the doe for her to get this. Vaccnination helps but it won't help immediatly. Using chlorhexiderm as a wash works really well because it is healing and not drying. Don't use salves or creams it just makes a thin protective film in which moisture and humidity builds up, the perfect enviornment for more staph.

Sadly the summer heat and sun will make it go away. Wet bedding and our humidity simply makes staph a problem. Vicki


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Try everything else first the lysine the chlorhexiderm and wait and see before going the antibiotic and bose route. on mine I had tried everything prior nothing worked for me on one doe.


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## VickiLynne (Feb 8, 2008)

This happened to one of my does last year and an experienced goat person told me to feed her back her milk. I was skeptical but I did and low and behold the bumps quickly went away. She wouldn't drink it by herself so I drenched her with it. Sounds weird but it worked.

Vicki in NC


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## [email protected] (Oct 26, 2007)

I'm kind of interested in this thread too. What deficiency are we talking about in regards to this? Also, is there a milk withdrawl when one gives the vaccine. 

I'm not sure if I understood Vicki's post. In the other thread, when she is talking about the staph arreus. 

(vaccine info is very new to me. ) 

I can use chlorahexiderm, feed milk back, order the vaccine ect. 

In preparation for using the milking machine starting this week what precautions do I need to take?


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## [email protected] (Oct 26, 2007)

Looks like MN residents need a prescription for the vaccine. ERRRR!


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## mdbates (Mar 17, 2008)

How tiny are the bumps? 
One of my goats have bumps all over her udder, also, but not tiny. It started with just 1 or 2 I thought in a sore becauce she's a first freshener,and nursing her kid. I put udder bulm on it, and after 2 day she now has it all over her udder.

A friend of mine said it might be goat pox?? Is that the same?


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## Rose (Oct 26, 2007)

Vicki says no goat pox in the U.S. 

I bet it's staph. Had it with two of my three does. I'm waiting on the vaccine to arrive in the mail.


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## Ravens Haven (Oct 26, 2007)

I don't see how she is copper defienct as I copper bolus every year and have for the past two years.

I did start the Lysigin and pen but no improvement yet.

Thanks
Autumn


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Looks like MN residents need a prescription for the vaccine. ERRRR!


You can order Lysigin directly from Jeffers without a vet RX. Kathie


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## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

YOu want to keep the udder dry and clean. Udder balm gums it up and creats a moist place for the staff to multiply.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I put udder bulm on it
................................

Exactly what Chris said. Staph dermatitis which is what you all have is enviornmental. Vaccinating for staph will give the doe some immunity to this. But lack of sunlight is not good for healthy skin. Neither is damp bedding. 

In some herds, these kinds of problems simply go away when the barn is cleaned out of winter bedding and the sun comes out (here). Others it can plague you, you get it around the dewclaws, up the legs. 

Balms, slaves etc., like Chris said, gunk up the problem. Figure you are putting a layer of petroleum onto the skin. Under this layer of pertroleum is the perfect enviornment to grow more staph...wet, humid, moist and WARM.

Lysigin or any vaccination isn't going to clear up any problem you are having now, it is about overall herd health. In the future with relatively clean airy places for the does to lay at night you will have alot less of this. I have been vaccinating with Lysigin for years now 12 at least, maybe more, I will have maybe 1 doe a year with staph dermatitis, and no does with staph mastitis, and never have I had a staph aureous diagnosis in my herd since using it. We had a list when we dairied...pseudonomas, ecoli, staph A, acidomides, in which the doe the next wednesday was put through the Cleveland auction barn. Vicki


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## [email protected] (Oct 26, 2007)

So what is the best way of using the vaccine? Should that be done now, or should I do it when they are dry, pre-breeding? Exactly as you said, the staph goes away once it gets warm up here and dries out. ( my entire barn area flooded last week, no doubt contributing to this mess.)


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## [email protected] (Oct 26, 2007)

Vicki, don't bother answering. I just saw the answer in the other thread and it pretty thoroughly explains it. Thanks for that information, I'm sure it's going to help us out.


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## christij21 (Jan 5, 2008)

I also noticed this today on my doe who kidded last week. This is my first experience with this - I take it I have to dump the milk? 
And this is my second year milking and I haven't experienced this before so I'm lost on what some of the items you are naming. My vet wouldn't give my girls Bo-se without blood work to verify they needed it. Will probios with Natural E help in place of the Bo-se? This doe had shown signs of copper deficenty (sp?) but I bolused and switched minerals. Her coat has shown a real improvement since then.


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## CarlinsDarlin (Feb 8, 2008)

Looks like we're having this problem too :/ - just noticed little bumps this morning while I was milking. You can't see them from a distance, but on the milking stand, they were obvious. Like a bumpy rash with no discoloration - just bumps. I'm assuming its staph because it's been so wet here all winter and early spring. 

I'm ordering the Lysigin today. The doe with the bumps has been vaccinated before, just did not have the booster this year. None of the rest of my goats have been vaccinated - so it's time for all of them to be. I have clorhexidine here, so I'll be washing her udder with it. Anything else I need to do till the lysigin comes in?

Oh, and christij21's question above... do I need to dump the milk? She has two babies nursing as well - bucklings. Will this hurt them? Do they need to be vaccinated? I know bucks generally aren't but since they're nursing, I thought they might need to be? They're leaving here on 4/19 to be sold.

Thanks,
Kathy


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## Rose (Oct 26, 2007)

I didn't dump the milk on my does during treatment for this.


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## CarlinsDarlin (Feb 8, 2008)

Thanks for your input Rose. After I posted my question, I actually spoke to a friend who is a registered nurse. She conducts the classes for breast feeding and breast health at the hospital and knows quite a bit about human breast health, etc... so I thought she might provide some input. She said that even women who get mastitis and staph infections are able to nurse their children with no ill effects - so the milk should be safe for drinking. She's bought milk from me as well, so if she were worried, I know she would have told me to dump it.

Kathy


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## CarlinsDarlin (Feb 8, 2008)

:help

Just got back in from milking. Boy those bumps look worse. :down Several of them look like they're coming to a head - like a pimple. She didn't want me milking because obviously they hurt. I feel so bad. The lysigin should be here this morning. I had it shipped overnight. I washed her both before and after milking with clorhexidine. How often should I wash her throughout the day?

The part that is so irritating is that I just cleaned out the barn last weekend. Got rid of all the winter bedding, put down stall fresh and new bedding. It's nice and dry in there now - well, at least until the rains arrive this afternoon. Then I'll be cleaning it out again. That's another worry - we're supposed to have 3 days of rain starting this afternoon. I can see this only making it worse. 

I'm going to end up taking her into the vet.... 
Kathy


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## [email protected] (Oct 26, 2007)

Do you have any 7 % iodine on hand? Wash her udder off well and scrub those scabs off. I'm not leaving any scabs on, because I notice they just break out again. Dry her udder and then coat the bumps with the iodine. This will take a lot of the infection out of them. Use this only once a day, since it is strong. Make sure her udder is shaved, so it does not retain any moisture on the skin. If you have a antibacterial cream (not a balm or salve) on hand, coat this on the bumps after the pm milking. The chlorahexidine is not working by itself for me, so I had to try something else. I haven't tried using my expensive tea tree oil on it yet, but some one else recommended that too. This is almost bad enough to make me consider using antibiotics on these animals, but I'm giving this a few more days to see if it will work. I have noticed a reduction in the size of the bumps on one goat already, so maybe??? 

Use gloves when milking and when treating. Keep things dry on the udder. Change gloves when you go to another animal for sure. I just got the vaccine this morning, so I'm going to use it this night. 

I have two does due in the next week. Would it make sense for me to give those does this vaccine now? Ifeel like this is taking a long time to resolve, but it's only been a few weeks since I noticed it, and maybe a week since I have started treating it. What is the normal time frame to getting rid of this? Does anybody know?


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## baileybunch (Oct 26, 2007)

Our doe, Clover, got this last year (while children were doing chores alone and I was out of state with my injured husband!). It took a while for the bumps/lesions to clear up. We tried everything...copper/acv solution, tea tree, etc. It just took time to clear up. It seems that the lesions (pea sized and came to a head) left scars.  Sue Reith sent me information from someone to use injectable Vitamin B12 *topically* and the lesions cleared up VERY quickly. I didn't get to try it...didn't have any B12.


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## CarlinsDarlin (Feb 8, 2008)

I've been told it just runs its course by someone else, too. But I hate to see her so miserable. :down I'm going to give the clorhexidine time to do its stuff and see if it helps. I just noticed the bumps yesterday morning, so I'm hoping I've gotten to it early enough not to get too bad (I hope!). She's the only doe I have milking right now, so I'm also hoping we can get this cleared up before the other girls freshen... and they don't get it. 

I also got my vaccine this morning and my sister in law, the RN, (thank God for her - I have not gotten comfortable enough to do IM shots yet) and I just came in from vaccinating everyone. I put a note on my calendar for a booster two weeks from today as well (because if I don't write things down I forget). BTW, my other does are due to freshen May 8 and May 12 and I went ahead and vaccinated them because they've never had it before - or, if they did, it's been a couple years (before I got them). Per the posted advice, they get it two weeks before freshening anyway as a yearly vaccination, so we know it won't hurt in late pregnancy. I don't know if it will help with the colostrum with only one week to go, though. That's a question for brighter minds than mine 

I was told that BioSol (neomyacin sulfate) has helped to clear this up in another goat person's herd, so I'm going to try that for a few days and see if it helps - I got that this morning too. Twice a day, 5cc per 100 lbs, divided into two doses, orally. My doe got a dose when I vaccinated her. I'll give her the other dose this evening. Judging from her reaction, it's pretty nasty tasting stuff. If it hasn't started making a big difference by the end of the week, I'll take her on into the vet and see what he suggests. 

I don't have any antibacterial cream - just ointment. That would gunk things up. I also don't have any B12. I do have B-complex, though. Think that would do any good? 

Thanks for all the advice.
Kathy


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Please please don't use anything harsh on her udder like iodine or bleach. You do not want those pimples to burst. If you continually aggrevate this with harsh chemicals or detergents that overdry the udder, she will develope pemphgus, which is when the bodies immune system goes out of whack and she will start reproducing cells on the skin or her udder faster than she sloughs them.

Use the chlorhexideen, wash her off before you milk and then use it as a teat dip and spary afterward. Give her a Bo-se shot, boost her immunity, keep her out of the barn as often as you can, if you have only wet grass out side, than build her a small platform to lay on out in the sun, even solid covered pallets work great for keeping does udders and feet up out of the damp. Vicki


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## CarlinsDarlin (Feb 8, 2008)

Vicki,
Actually my husband had a staph infection on his arm last fall, and we had plenty of clorhexidine left from his prescription. So I'm using that. It does work well - at least it did on him. I'm hoping for the best. This morning I washed her with it before milking, but I didn't use it as a dip. I'll do that this evening. 

I don't have Bo-Se. I know, I need to get that, but can't get it without a prescription here. I'm working on it, but since I've not developed a relationship with a good goat vet around here yet, nobody will sell me stuff like that yet. The next few days its supposed to be raining here, so a dry spot outside will be hard to come by. However, I did talk to my husband today while he was at work and he's planning to bring home some 4x4 pallets for the girls to lay on while in the barn - so even if the barn gets wet in all this rain, hopefully they'll have dry spots to lie down. Eventually I hope to figure out a way to keep the barn drier. We built a covered loafing area right off their door this winter, hoping it would keep some more rain out. It has helped - just not enough.

Thanks again for all the input,
Kathy


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## [email protected] (Oct 26, 2007)

O.k. scratch the iodine idea. Vicki, these tiny bumps are turning into large, nickel and quarter sized sores. Please tell me these will go away? I This started happening after I started using the chlorahexiderm.


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## CarlinsDarlin (Feb 8, 2008)

I'm really stressing and worried - because I also don't know the extent of this stuff before it starts getting better. I just noticed it yesterday, and started washing and medicating her today, of course, so nothing has really had time to start working, but when I went out to feed a while ago, and got her up on the milkstand to wash, etc, I noticed that these bumps are on the *underside of her belly too*. Now I'm really worried. :down It seems like it's getting worse very fast. I'm worried about waiting to take her to the vet, but I don't have a closed trailer to take her in (just a goat crate that rides in the back of the truck) and it's going to be raining cats and dogs till Friday. The closest goat vet is 45 minutes away - and doesn't make house calls. The other one (who I just heard of today and don't even know his last name - just the clinic he works in and his first name) is about the same distance. The barn is relatively dry - though its wetter than I want with all the rain we've had this afternoon. DH forgot the pallets. He's bringing them tomorrow, he says. What do I need to do?

The only other antibiotic I have on hand is Penn-G. How long before the BioSol should start making a difference and slow this stuff down? I'm worried. :help2
Kathy


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## CarlinsDarlin (Feb 8, 2008)

Well, I found the other vet. He does make farm calls but he charges $4 per mile, with a 40 mile minimum. I can't afford that. He wasn't in today anyway. Will be in before 10 am tomorrow, and I might be able to talk to him then, but he is out of the office most of the time these days on farm calls, the receptionist said. 

So, I'm going to continue to work with her today and see how she does and determine if we need to take her into the vet. I'll call him tomorrow morning and see what he recommends as well. The good news is that clinic has Saturday hours, so if he's in on Saturday, we might be able to get her in then if we need to - after the rain, and when DH is here to help load her up. Everythings still up in the air right now.

This morning, she doesn't look worse, thankfully, but she doesn't look better either. 
Laura offered some advice over the phone this morning (thank you Laura!) which makes me feel some better. Still trying to track down some tea tree oil around here. The health food store locally doesn't open till 9:30 but hopefully they carry it.

And it's still raining... :/
Kathy


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## ellie (Nov 17, 2007)

COPPER, COPPER, COPPER!!!!

One of the symptoms of low copper is staph infections on noses and udders!

Copper bolus once a year is not often enough for severely deficient areas. Yes, all the stuff people have said here about treatment, but the cause is a depressed immune system or they'd be able to fight it off.

Check other symptoms, too, I bet you have some...pale hair especially around eyes, bald tail tips, any cases of mastitis (also caused by lowered immune function), rough coats (looks like split ends on humans). 

COPPER IS AT THE ROOT OF VIRTUALLY ALL HEALTH PROBLEMS!!!!!!! 

Ellie


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## CarlinsDarlin (Feb 8, 2008)

Ellie,
I know that copper deficiency can cause problems. In fact, as soon as I realized that two of my does were deficient (because of what I read on these forums), I bolused them - just a couple weeks ago. Not terribly successfully - they chewed up the capsules - but I'll do it again after the freshen in about a month. First, I'm waiting to see if what they _did_ get has any benefit in coat changes, etc.

The doe that has the bumps, however, shows none of the signs that you mentioned. She was the one I was least worried about as far as copper goes. She has been here the shortest amount of time, has a shiny, smooth coat, no bald tip on her tail, eyes look good, and has not had a case of mastitis ever (I know where she was born). With none of the obvious symptoms of copper deficiency showing, I was afraid to bolus this doe. Don't want to have to deal with copper toxicity...

Regarding copper in general, I'm looking at changing my mineral to one that a friend uses. Her goats look good with no copper deficiencies and she lives just a few miles from me. AFAIK, she does not bolus. It may just be that my mineral is not good enough.

Kathy


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## ellie (Nov 17, 2007)

Remember that animals vary (as do humans) on how they respond to nutritional deficiencies. If you have any that show copper deficiency, then very likely ALL are deficient, just show it differently. If I were you, I'd find out for sure if she has been bolused. Far as I know, no one has ever reported a toxicity from the rods. And from the way they work, that makes sense to me.

It is curious tho, that she doesn't show any other symptoms. Difficulty breeding or kidding? Retained placentia? Pneumonia? At any rate, it has to be about immune function. Otherwise she'd fight it off with ease. Staph is ALWAYS in the environment.

Good luck!


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Some does just show defficency and others don't. Black nubians are the easiest to spot defficency in but in our herd Poptart when she was put down at 12, had the lowest scores of any of our does yet showed none of the problems. She was a red and white. Sadie who was solid black had the typical pig wirey hair and the red tinge of a bad perm in her hair, yet her liver biopsy numbers were better than Pop Tarts. So you have to deal with minerals herd wide, not single animals. vicki


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## CarlinsDarlin (Feb 8, 2008)

Hmm. I didn't know the rods didn't cause copper toxicity. That's good to know. I will ask, though if she's ever been bolused. She's only 2 years old. 

She didn't have any difficulty breeding (it was a surprise and an accident this year - I bought her thinking she was open and found out after I got her that she was bred), and she kidded with little difficulty. She had triplets, two bucklings and a doeling. The doeling was last and was born dead, though. I don't know why, but there was a lot of commotion in the barn that night (too many extra people because I didn't know that would cause problems - she was my first kidding experience - I know better now) and she likely put off her labor too long, causing the death of the doeling. At least that's the consensus from everyone I asked. She hasn't had any other illnesses either. 

But, as you said, it might just not be showing as obviously in her. She's brown with frosted ears and nose and some black on her legs. I will verify if she's been bolused, and if not, then I'll do her as well.

Tonight she's looking the same. The bumps are not any worse (maybe a little better) and she seems energetic and in a good mood. So I'm hopeful it will soon start reversing.

Thanks again,
kathy


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## Ravens Haven (Oct 26, 2007)

Well old doe with the staph is clearing up, Thank you all for your help. As you all can tell it will take a little while before it clears I started this thread on 3/23 and today is 4/9 and it is still got some to go but it is drastically improved.

Thanks


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## CarlinsDarlin (Feb 8, 2008)

Sugar is looking better this morning. I think everything we're doing is doing some good - at least I hope so. There seem to be fewer bumps this morning. Some still don't look great, but nothing looks nearly as scary to me as it did the night before last. She wasn't nearly as jumpy when I was milking her this morning, which means to me that they're *feeling* better, too. Day before yesterday, it was all I could do to milk her - I know it hurt then. This morning she was fine until just about the end of milking. Then she started getting antsy - I'm sure they were beginning to hurt by then. But, it's doing better.

We also got some sleeping platforms built for the girls yesterday (made out of 4x4 pallets) so they didn't sleep on the dirt floor last night - well everyone but Cinnamon, my oldest doe. She really doesn't like those pallets. :shrug It's still raining here, and probably will be most of the day. So, those platforms will help keep everyone drier even if the barn gets wet. During a reprieve from the rain yesterday afternoon, we also put new tin on the entire south side of the barn which is where most of the leaks were... hopefully the entire barn will be drier today.

Thanks for all the advice everyone... hopefully it's working.
Kathy


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## CarlinsDarlin (Feb 8, 2008)

Sugar is definitely doing better. Yay. There's still bumps, but none of them are inflamed and red. They're drying out nicely. That brings up my next question. I know the clorhexidine does dry the skin (my husband complained of the same thing when he was using it), which is part of the healing process, but I wonder if her udder is getting *too* dry. She's not chapped, because I make sure she's thorougly dried off after I wash her. But her skin is SO dry on her udder now. I know udder balm will bring back the staph problem, but I wonder if there's anything I can do to help her not be so dried out... or should I just let it be till all the bumps are gone?
Kathy


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