# nasty scabs on teats...why??



## chewie (Jul 26, 2008)

this is the same doe i've been dealing with for a month now. of course she is being very unhappy at anything i do, i am sure its painful. i've used the clorahexidine wash, bag balm, neosporin, just washing and leaving it be, i cannot think of anything else. she is still milking, but not much, so i am now thinking i should just dry her up and use pennicillin? she is probably bred, by maybe 4wks at most.

the scabs have deep cracks, and the udder itself feels like very dry leather, and once i started using that wash, some did improve a tiny bit, some scabs came off, but geez, this has been like this faaarrr too long. could she be allergic to something?? please tell me what i can do?!

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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

If this was me I would make sure the bedding is changed frequently, I'd never let up on washing WITH GLOVES, I'd be making sure the chemicals were mixed at the right amounts, I would be letting her eat two-three comfrey leaves a day, and after such a time of this I would be taking her into the vet. I would have already been talking to them about the condition so that when I did take her in they would already have an idea about treatment. Makes life so much easier this way.
Tam


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## nightskyfarm (Sep 7, 2009)

I would dry her off if she is not milking very much and I would use Blu-cote 2x a day and treat with antibiotics. From the photo, it looks to be impetigo or fungal related. Jennifer


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## pokyone42 (Oct 26, 2007)

wow. that looks quite nasty, and painful, too! Have had staph problems in the past, but they never looked like that... looks like antibiotics might be in order.....not sure. good luck. I am curious about what other, more experienced folks have to say about it....


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## ellie (Nov 17, 2007)

Anytime a goat is having issues with skin problems, I think it's crucial to examine the copper levels she's getting. If you are not bolusing, it might be a depressed immune system equals lots of weird things that don't necessarily seem connected, but they are. Good luck!


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## chewie (Jul 26, 2008)

i have not done any bolusing, but they have a very high copper mineral. i bought a fungicide today, cuz if its a fungus, antibactial stuff wont' work. yeah, she is not comfortable, its getting cold and almost time to dry up anyhow, may as well do it earlier. can i give her penn. while preg.?? 

i can also use blukote, have it in the barn already. poor girl, i just want her to feel better and heal up!!


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## Odeon (Oct 26, 2007)

In the photo her legs look wet, is that just the photo or is it damp?


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## mulish (Apr 26, 2009)

Is the brown color on the teat due to an iodine based dip, or is that the scabbiness that you are referring to?


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## Holly Govero (Mar 26, 2009)

I do have very high copper in my loose mineral but I still do the copper bolus no matter what.. It looks like painful! Have you tried the comfrey? You can make it as salve and put on it. I hope you can figure out what is wrong with her. But I think you should try this. Go buy the olive leaf extract as liquid and spray on it. It will help kill the fungus and etc.. Try that..


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## Nancy (Oct 25, 2007)

We had one that gets scabs(actually before it scabs) like that but not brown looking. We had changed their bedding and finally figured out she was allergic to something in the straw. It wasn't as severe and it made her udder feel like old shoe leather. What worked for us was spraying the chlorahex wash 2 times a day and also benedryl. The only time she wil get it now is depending on what straw she is put on. Because we show a lot of times we buy our straw there but the majority of the time we don't have a problem. It takes about 2 weeks or so to get rid of it. I would make sure it stays dry, don't use the neosporin. I would still check with the vet about antibiotics.
Nancy


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

some thoughts about copper in mineral mixes...
The copper in the loose minerals is generally in the form of sulfates. These boost liver levels only temporarily and do not leave a residual for the animal to call on in times of stress. If you give a sufficient amt of sulfates to keep blood and liver levels up you risk toxicity issues. Sulfates are readily available and that is not what the goats need except in times of extreme stress. You can find farms with copper toxic soil from all the copper shed in urine and feces from mineral mixes with sulfates. 

Goats need a slow feed of copper regularly which the oxide gives you because it is slower to break down. There are complex mineral interactions that can bind up dietary copper particularly the sulfates (iron-molybdenum-sulfur-and selenium in some areas-etc) so if this occurs then you still have the copper oxide slow feeding to overcome antagonists. Many health issues are immune function issues and many of these are mineral related. So don't depend on dietary copper in the form of sulfates to keep copper levels high enough for optimum resistance or performance. Sulfates also make the rumen more acidic which can alter the uptake of micronutrients by disallowing important interactions involved in digestion decreasing nutrient availability and absorption. Copper is involved in resistance to bacterial and fungal infections. 

High levels of parasites have been shown to reduce copper availability. They actually absorb copper in the cuticle and make it unavailable to the goat. The idea is to get the level high enough that it kills the parasites since they do absorb it. Parasites also cause a rise in PH so that some nutrients are unavailable including copper even from bolusing. This is why even tho you bolus you still need to de-worm.

The idea of an allergy makes sense in an otherwise healthy animal.
Lee


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

ALSO many things can inhibit the absorbtion of copper especially in loose minerals. If this were my doe she would be getting Pen g every day, BoSe everyday for 10 days also copper bolus and the the series of shots of lysign I would also be giving her massive doses of Vit C and I say this because whatever caused this it is most likely now staph. and this is what Sue Reith had me do with a doe like this a few years ago. also clean twice a day with the clora stuff and I found spraying with hydrogen peroxide really dried it all up


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## ellie (Nov 17, 2007)

I like to use "Today as a topical skin treatment because it's specifically for staph aureus. In fact, when I got a new hip and the incision got what the docs called MRSA (Medication resistant staph aureus) infection, I used Today on it and cleared it right up.

Good stuff for the nasties, but copper bolus would factor in there too!!!


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## chewie (Jul 26, 2008)

i had been using the clor. as a wash, but for 2 days now used it straight, then tons of warm water, gently washing it. last night most of the scabs came off. her skin is raw, so i am being byond gentle iwth her. poor thing. the brown is probably from the dip, but i am wondering, any chance that dip would be something alleric to? i find it odd how it goes only up so high on the teat, but yet is on the udder as well. so the idea of maybe not using the chlor. correctly was in play here--i have a small amt in a pop bottle, so no directions.

today her skin is very pink. and i am wondering how much i could bolus, and how a liver test is done so i dont' over do it. i have had very few issues with health, one was my own dumb move, then this. the girls are spunky and happy, eat well, poop well, i cannot see them as in poor health. i am new at this (only my 2+ year with goats), and have yet much to learn. 

lee--thanks so much for the in depth on copper, i have read up on it but your post was a bit more plain-speak. thanks for that.

as far as asking a vet, the ones around here have actually rolled their eyes when i ask if they deal with goats--"not if we dont ahve to" was one comment. sadly, this site is the best i can get, and my own work from other animals. one vet flat out said to rely on this site, as he doesn't know anything about goats.

since her skin is so raw, should i put anything on her? or just leave her to the open air. her bedding is clean, same stuff she had last year with no issues. she is otherwise very happy and seems healthy.

oh, the wetness of her in the photo is b/c i just washed her up, patted dry with a paper towel, then took the pix, trying to get it best seen for your helps. 

today also she is eating her grain on the stand a bit, she had been just standing there, quivering (*shudder, pooor baby!!!*) so maybe she's on the mend? or still use the today or something?? i just hope it being raw doesn't invite nasties.

thanks so much for helping us!!!


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

That is great info Ellie. Love hearing you were your own guinea pig successfully.

The only way to get a liver panel for minerals is a tragedy. You can get a blood assay tho.
The animal that you take a liver section from would have to be a similar animal under same feed regime.
Which is to say you can't butcher a 4 month old wether and apply his liver levels to a years old milking doe.
I think whatever you do you should aim for drying the skin and yes she could be allergic to any of the many things you have tried. 

Don't feel alone. We have no goat vets either. Thank goodness for the internet!
Lee


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## grandmajo (May 22, 2008)

Hi Chris,

The copper bolus is done based on the weight of the goat, 1 gram of the copper oxide rods per 22 lbs. of weight. Make sure that you do the copper oxide rods, don't do the copper sulfate! I'm on another forum, and one of the gals there actually killed one of her goats by using the copper sulfate. If I remember correctly, Vicki said something on here a while back about the copper sulfate being hard on their rumens.

I'm also wondering if it is possible that your goat is allergic to the teat dip, if I understand correctly you're using an iodine based one?


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## chewie (Jul 26, 2008)

update....i did call the vet, dispite his unlove of goats. he described the issue to me, before i said much, as he is dealing with a 'very good cow' with it currently as well...says its a herpe virus. oh gag. anyone have anything about this???? i really could reduce the herd, looks like perhaps my choice has been made, i don't want anything that is catching and so yucky to deal with. shoot, i like her too! (but not THAT much to go thru this, or have it spread thru-out the herd) 

i am so hoping someone can tell me more on this, but i am heading off to do some online searching as well. 

and yes, i use iodine teat dip.


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## Nancy (Oct 25, 2007)

Sounds like the chlor. wash is helping. We used it straight but didn't was it off. The one doe that had something like that is the only one that ever gets it. Usually only after we change bedding. As soon as we start seeing bumps we use the wash and give benadryl, seems to help a lot.


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## chewie (Jul 26, 2008)

Sondra said:


> BoSe everyday for 10 days also copper bolus and the the series of shots of lysign I would also be giving her massive doses of Vit C and I say this because whatever caused this it is most likely now staph. and this is what Sue Reith had me do with a doe like this a few years ago. also clean twice a day with the clora stuff and I found spraying with hydrogen peroxide really dried it all up


we live in a high selenium area, so i've been told to not worry about bose. (so high you can see it on the ground, a white powdery stuff, horses can't even eat the grass in places). i am giving penn., and stopped washing with water, per the vet, just dipping with nolvasan/glycernine mix. (a clorahex. type product with a virus-killer in it). i am trying to dry her up as well. i am going to get some 'today' as well, at this point, i've little to loose in trying everything. i also wondered if tea tree oil would help or if that's just a wishy-washy type stuff. i grabbing at straws here!!

she is also getting vit c and some zinc, as per other posts. the staph is what i am also concened about, that maybe it started as something small but then grew to this. i plan to bolus as well. there are some signs of problems there, but i thought having a high copper min. fixed that, but i read the bag and its only copper sulfate. *sigh*. who knew things could be this tricky?? all i wanted was a coupla goats for some milk!!!! :tearhair


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

no then for you don't use the BoSE believe you are the only area in the country with high selenium. 
aloe is very soothing and healing.


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## Holly Govero (Mar 26, 2009)

I have the healing salve. It is great and it does work great. It does have comfrey in it. I am sure it will help to heal it.. But I would try Aloe Vera..


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