# Raw Milk



## trunkbranches (Apr 14, 2013)

There is so much controversy over the use of raw milk (unpasteurized) for drinking. I totally believe in and have grown up with raw milk. It is a living food.

People say, "Oh you can't drink raw milk. You can't feed it to babies."

Ok, does anyone have doctor's and scientist's research on this?

I totally believe that raw milk, if milked and processed correctly, is much healthier than pasterurized for the human and animal consumption and use.


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## Starla (Aug 29, 2013)

I drink raw milk every day! my whole family does! that is one of the reasons I have dairy goats!!


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## EmyAcres (Jul 3, 2013)

I believe raw milk is much healthier that is why with three children 4 and under I have decided to get milk goats! I believe that what is going on with all of this nonsense about raw milk being unsafe for people is the government upset because they don't want us to do what we want to do but what they want us to do!! People lived off of raw milk for years! And I bet it was NOT handled nearly as careful as it is today!!! This is just what I think


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

I believe overall it is more healthy. But I also think about how I work outside all the time, even before I started drinking raw milk, and that must build up the immune system. And also, working around animals you are breathing coliform all the time, so basically you are innoculating yourself for it little by little. Not everyone has this benefit. And don't forget the reason they made it a law to pasteurize milk in the first place, was because there are pathogens that can make you very sick or even kill you. That being said, fresh clean milk from healthy animals is generally a good safe food and it is what I choose to drink and use in my kitchen. As for research, you can get statistics online. I think there are very few raw milk related illnesses reported each year. Much less than illnesses traced to raw veggies.


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## Nuttynanny (May 22, 2013)

I use only raw milk in my kitchen to drink and cook with. I compost the waste and bedding and use in my garden. I haven't been sick in years, and I work in the medical field exposed daily to many virus. I wash my hands often and use a milking machine which is cleaned daily after each use. I like knowing where my food comes from and how it is prepared. To quote my grand daughter who was staying over night at a friends house " Mom they ask me if I wanted eggs for breakfast! I didn't remember see any chicken around there; I didn't know where their eggs were coming from, so I said no thank you."


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

EmyAcres said:


> I believe raw milk is much healthier that is why with three children 4 and under I have decided to get milk goats! I believe that what is going on with all of this nonsense about raw milk being unsafe for people is the government upset because they don't want us to do what we want to do but what they want us to do!! People lived off of raw milk for years! And I bet it was NOT handled nearly as careful as it is today!!! This is just what I think


And people got sick and died also. It's a personal choice and RESPONSIBILITY. I choose to drink/use raw milk. I do not give my granddaughter raw milk. My son and her mom don't choose to, so when she comes here we buy store milk for her. There are people with immune deficiencies that raw milk would not be good for and there are people with health problems that raw milk could help. 
FDA safety regulations are there to protect people. There ARE stupid people out there. I have them stop all the time asking if I sell raw milk. I have yet to have ONE ask to see my goats or my milking area or how I process/store...EVER. Just: "Can I buy?" What if I were some icky, nasty, gross dairy? Sick people and lawsuit. And MORE gov't.


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## EmyAcres (Jul 3, 2013)

Well I do have a child with an immune system disorder but he is also lactose intolerant! I know where my milk comes from and I know it is handled properly.


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

That is all fine. Your choice, your responsibility. What I am saying, is are you willing to take responsibility to tell someone else that raw milk is safe for THEIR child? If something were to happen with your child (God forbid) and a doctor said it was due to raw milk, CPS would be all over it. If something happens to someone else's child... their lawyer would be all over it. 
Raw milk is *better* for some, and not for others. Some raw milk is safe to consume, some not.


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

My recommendation is if you are going to make any choice about your child that challenges the status quo, then it is wise to find a doctor who will go to bat for you. We fed our infants raw goat milk from our own goats. We also had doctors and a nutritionist that supervised. Might seem extreme, but people have been persecuted over such things.

Yes, personally, I think safely handled raw milk is superior than pasteurized. The trouble with buying such a product is you have no idea how it was handled.


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## trunkbranches (Apr 14, 2013)

*Drinking raw milk*



Starla said:


> I drink raw milk every day! my whole family does! that is one of the reasons I have dairy goats!!


Same here. My family has drunk raw milk for generations. I have since I was 4 years old. I think I'm healthier for it.

My original post wasn't really for myself or my beliefs,but wondering if there is some science for our belief and testimony. I read one post that said 'old science says that its healthier for us than pasteurized milk, but new science says its not, because they don't want to lose their jobs." I can't remember the exact wording.


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## trunkbranches (Apr 14, 2013)

*Raw milk for Centuries*



EmyAcres said:


> I believe raw milk is much healthier that is why with three children 4 and under I have decided to get milk goats! I believe that what is going on with all of this nonsense about raw milk being unsafe for people is the government upset because they don't want us to do what we want to do but what they want us to do!! People lived off of raw milk for years! And I bet it was NOT handled nearly as careful as it is today!!! This is just what I think


Crystal, I'm with you 100%


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## trunkbranches (Apr 14, 2013)

Totally agree.


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## trunkbranches (Apr 14, 2013)

Angie, I'm so agreeing with you too, on this. I think this is why the government requires licensing in many states. i've no problem with that if they are reasonable. In utah, they require bacteria tests and one test on the goats. I've no problem with that. In fact, I think its a good idea. I'm not licensed yet, but I am working towards getting my facilities prepped. What I do have a problem with is the press stating that this or that dairy have unclean milk. When its proven that there is no problem with that diary's milk, they don't retract it. That has happened at least twice in Utah that I know of.

And you are right, the legal would be all over it and probably people could even go to prison. I don't know that to be true, but I suspect so.

You mention that you had a doctor and nutritionist supervising. Ok how did they supervise and what did they say of raw milk? I'd really like to know.

And Angie, great to hear from you. 
Peg


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## EmyAcres (Jul 3, 2013)

I agree I don't have a problem with the government if try are being reasonable! But some stuff is just wrong! They feel that they have the right to tell us what we can and can't drink and that's just not right! And Denise you are right if my child was to get sick from it I am sure that all the doctors would immediately start pointing to the raw milk if they knew he was drinking it. Know they do know that he is drinking goats milk but they do not know that it is raw. I just believe it is healthier this way and again I know where my milk comes from I have seen the milk room and how it is handled. Until I can get my own milk from my girls.


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

trunkbranches said:


> You mention that you had a doctor and nutritionist supervising. Ok how did they supervise and what did they say of raw milk? I'd really like to know.


We like to go to older old school doctors (baby boomers). They tend to be alot more open minded. Also family doctors over pediatricians. They tend to have some experience will children being raised on goat milk. Part of why we had a nutritionist is because I have a special needs child. That was a little dicey at first. But we printed out our research about the composition of goat milk, the recipes by Dr. Sears - he gives good rationale for the composition of his recipe and the info from the Weston Price Foundation. We went through with the nutritionist every detail of what we were feeding. That's what I meant about supervision. She was making sure all his dietary needs were met. The raw thing didn't seem to bother the doctors since it was being fed so fresh. I feed babies the freshest milk I have. I think it is generally understood that farm families tend to drink raw milk, so as kids get older, I think it is less concerning.

Don't want to live in fear, but our experiences having children taught us that our freedoms are very much in jeopardy in this country. Having a supportive doctor or two to vouch for you is a good insurance policy.


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## EmyAcres (Jul 3, 2013)

I do agree our freedom is in trouble here!


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## Dee Kennerly (Apr 7, 2010)

I believe this discussion would be best included in the chat forum. It has nothing to do with the health and welfare in raising dairy goats. This type of discussion in this department is one reason why the general volume of readers has diminished. I have been a member less than some and more than others, but when I found this site with it's wealth of information, I was thrilled. Now, when I sell an animal to an inexperienced goat owner, I send them to this forum as backup. But it has become less useful for this purpose. The daily input is less informational concerning the care and keeping of dairy goats, so I suggest they read through the archives instead. Unfortunately, the past information is not as accessible to those who are not as computer savvy as others. I think it is a shame that so many people for so many years worked to give us a gathering place for learning and sharing important facts about our animals and it is becoming just another "social site". I still check DGI every day, but it is getting more disappointing as time goes by. I do not intend to irritate anyone, I just think the forum was divided into different sections for a reason.


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

EmyAcres said:


> I agree I don't have a problem with the government if try are being reasonable! But some stuff is just wrong! They feel that they have the right to tell us what we can and can't drink and that's just not right! And Denise you are right if my child was to get sick from it I am sure that all the doctors would immediately start pointing to the raw milk if they knew he was drinking it. Know they do know that he is drinking goats milk but they do not know that it is raw. I just believe it is healthier this way and again I know where my milk comes from I have seen the milk room and how it is handled. Until I can get my own milk from my girls.


So you have seen herd neg tests for CL, johnnes, brucellosis, q-fever, etc.? They do regular testing for SCC? If a child came down with an illness due to one of these, then the doctor's wouldn't have to be *told* they are being given raw milk. It would be obvious.

I am playing *devil's advocate*. The OP stated that they believe raw milk to be healthier and is looking for *Proof*. It's only healthier if it is safe. Pasturized milk has been proven to be (more) safe. It's hard to prove that raw milk is *safe*. Depends on the dairy. Thus gov't regulation...because like I stated before--there are stupid people out there that don't want to do their own research and check for safety and there are also dairies (people) that will take advantage of that stupidity.


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## EmyAcres (Jul 3, 2013)

Yes they are.


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## trunkbranches (Apr 14, 2013)

Dee Kennerly said:


> I believe this discussion would be best included in the chat forum. It has nothing to do with the health and welfare in raising dairy goats. This type of discussion in this department is one reason why the general volume of readers has diminished. I have been a member less than some and more than others, but when I found this site with it's wealth of information, I was thrilled. Now, when I sell an animal to an inexperienced goat owner, I send them to this forum as backup. But it has become less useful for this purpose. The daily input is less informational concerning the care and keeping of dairy goats, so I suggest they read through the archives instead. Unfortunately, the past information is not as accessible to those who are not as computer savvy as others. I think it is a shame that so many people for so many years worked to give us a gathering place for learning and sharing important facts about our animals and it is becoming just another "social site". I still check DGI every day, but it is getting more disappointing as time goes by. I do not intend to irritate anyone, I just think the forum was divided into different sections for a reason.


Dee, sorry if I posted my original comment in the wrong place. This is the first time I have ever posted in the wrong place. I actually went to the forum and looked at topics and thought this was the main place that my question would fit. Honestly, what my question is about is totally about raising goats. How to sell our product or not is what helps us continue to raise our goats. We have to raise money from our animals to continue to raise them. So I was wondering about people's experiences and if there was some research that people have found on the topic.

I've personally learned quite a bit from this discussion.

So where specifically would you rather see this discussion? If you can give the exact forum, then we could move it there.

Sorry if I posted to the wrong place.

peggy


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

I think your post is fine just where it is. The sales of raw milk is important to anyone who sells it... and should be for those that buy it. 

It's one thing to produce your own milk and consume it, but to sell that milk to someone else as *safe* is a whole 'nother ball game. Consumers tend to not do their own homework and research the safety/risks of the product. They *trust* the producer. When/if something *bad* happens, then they feel that trust has been betrayed and get angry and first thing they do is call their lawyer. Hope ya got liability insurance.  Consumers have been so coddled with gov't regs making sure that everything is safe for them that they don't feel that it is their responsibility to check out anything... it is their thought that it is the producer's responsibility and therefore the producer's fault when something goes wrong. And the gov't backs them up. So, like I said in my original response: Are you willing to take that responsibility for someone else's safety?
Crystal is a producer's dream customer. Someone who does their research, checks out the facilities, asks to see testing for safe milk and takes responsibility for her choice. That type of customer is very few and far between... if ever seen by most producers.


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## EmyAcres (Jul 3, 2013)

Denise, thank you!


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

I still disagree that *Raw milk is safe.* as a broad statement is true. There are too many variables. I also disagree that the gov't has to much regulation on the safety of consumers. I can give you one example: 

I grew up on a grade A cow dairy. We milked 125-150 head. Milk picked up by tanker every other day. One day the truck got there to pick up and tested milk. Unknown to us, a farm hand had accidentally milked a cow on antibiotics into the main. It all had to be dumped. Without the testing, that milk would have affected many, many people. If we had (illegally) sold raw milk off the farm, to anyone with an allergy, it would have been a horror story. Even clean, *safe* dairies make mistakes. Accidents happen. There's good reason for the regulations to keep people safe.


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

Raw milk is only safe in the sense that milk itself is safe. Safe is a relative term, so relative as to almost be useless.


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## Starla (Aug 29, 2013)

If your goats are healthy, and you are very clean with handling your milk, what would make it unsafe? I am curious. I have several friends that get milk from me and this post has be a little worried! I hand milk, bleach all containers, wash udders, spray udders, strain milk and chill as quick as possible. Is there anything else that would make my milk NOT safe?


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## trunkbranches (Apr 14, 2013)

*Safety in raw milk*

I do Dairy Herd Improvement on my does. When one does that or even One-Day testing, SCC (Somatic Cell Count or white blood count), that gives an indication if the udder is healthy... like indication of mastitis. HOwever, not always is higher SCC meaning mastitis. Sometimes it just means the doe is in heat or that she has more udder tissue sluff off like we are too harsh when milking the doe. One of the things that Utah government tests for when a heard is licensed is SCC.

in Utah, they require that the person be checked regularly for health and also that the does be tested for (now I forgot if its TB or Brucellosis). Utah only tests for the one, because the other one (I have to look back in the emails is apparently pretty much non-existant nowadays.

And cleanliness of milking. also is the herd on antibiotics that have a milk withdrawal time or even some wormers have a milk withdrawal time.

Safe raw milk is important to the health of the animal, babies goats, to all consumers. 
Peg


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## trunkbranches (Apr 14, 2013)

Starla said:


> If your goats are healthy, and you are very clean with handling your milk, what would make it unsafe? I am curious. I have several friends that get milk from me and this post has be a little worried! I hand milk, bleach all containers, wash udders, spray udders, strain milk and chill as quick as possible. Is there anything else that would make my milk NOT safe?


Yep, for instance if the doe has mastitis, if she is taking antibiotics or wormers that have a specific milk withdrawal time (time frame where the animal's milk shouldn't be consumed by humans, which information can be obtained by a vet). Also if the animal has like TB or Bruecellosis.

Mostly, though, I'd suspect that the milk would be safe if, as you say, done correctly. Very likely you are just fine, I'd suspect.

One of the things that Utah does is that they bacteria test the milk monthly. i'm lucky that my father-in-law is a micorobiologist. His lab is licensed by Utah to test milk. They are going to train my husband and I to test bacteria.

I too let others use my milk. I'm not too worried, because like you, I know where my milk is coming from. In the near future, I hope to bacteria test my milk. I already have monthly SCC count done on my milk.

If you are not able to have SCC done,you can just get a DHI lab to test it even if you are not on any type of milk test. Its $1.15/sample. All you do is run a sample, send it to the lab and they send you the results. I can give you the how to of sampling if interested and also the name of a lab closest to you. If interested, contact me directly and I can fill you in. But if your people have been drinking your milk regularly, I'd not be too worried. That's just my opinion, for the little that its worth.


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## trunkbranches (Apr 14, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> I still disagree that *Raw milk is safe.* as a broad statement is true. There are too many variables. I also disagree that the gov't has to much regulation on the safety of consumers. I can give you one example:
> 
> I grew up on a grade A cow dairy. We milked 125-150 head. Milk picked up by tanker every other day. One day the truck got there to pick up and tested milk. Unknown to us, a farm hand had accidentally milked a cow on antibiotics into the main. It all had to be dumped. Without the testing, that milk would have affected many, many people. If we had (illegally) sold raw milk off the farm, to anyone with an allergy, it would have been a horror story. Even clean, *safe* dairies make mistakes. Accidents happen. There's good reason for the regulations to keep people safe.


Denise, I totally agree with you. Grade A dairies are not anymore immune to accidents as us individuals. Even things like mastitis can be a problem.

I have no problem with government having regulations, not at all. There are reasons for it. we can test these things ourselves, too. That's one of the reasons why i will be testing bacteria on my herd on a regular basis, as soon as we are licensed.

I'm working on my facilities to get licensed, as well.


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## trunkbranches (Apr 14, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> I still disagree that *Raw milk is safe.* as a broad statement is true. There are too many variables. I also disagree that the gov't has to much regulation on the safety of consumers. I can give you one example:
> 
> I grew up on a grade A cow dairy. We milked 125-150 head. Milk picked up by tanker every other day. One day the truck got there to pick up and tested milk. Unknown to us, a farm hand had accidentally milked a cow on antibiotics into the main. It all had to be dumped. Without the testing, that milk would have affected many, many people. If we had (illegally) sold raw milk off the farm, to anyone with an allergy, it would have been a horror story. Even clean, *safe* dairies make mistakes. Accidents happen. There's good reason for the regulations to keep people safe.


As a general rule, I think that raw milk is safe, but how do we know for sure unless we test the milk and herd regularly? I do like drinking the 'living milk', rather than the pasteurized milk. However, everybody has to make their own decsions.

As mentioned, my herd personally is tested monthly for SCC and will be tested for bacteria as soon as my husband and I get to my father-in-law's microbiology lab to learn how to test bacteria.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

No food is safe. I hate how all the discussion on raw milk is always still centered around some idea that its risks are any different than risks in other foods. Does anyone feel like they can't tell someone that greens they grew are safe for their kid? A hamburger that they made? Would you drive their child to school for them? All of those are statistically more dangerous than raw milk. Pastuerized milk is statistically more dangerous than raw milk. I think all pasteurization does is make people feel all warm and fuzzy inside unless they are drinking it immediately after.

There have been zero deaths from raw milk in the time the CDC has been tracking the last 14 or 15 years. In that time there have been deaths from salads, hamburger, peanut butter, chicken and friggen canteloupe. Nothing in life is *safe*. Just like you're more likely to die in a car crash than on a plane, yet we fear the plane ride. It's in our head. 

Is raw milk safe? Not 100%. And neither is anything else. Heck, I've heard of people dying from pancake mix. Had mold in it.

Educate yourself on food safety and take precautions and care in all food handling. And then realize you're still not 100% safe and that is life.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Ashley: :handclap


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## EmyAcres (Jul 3, 2013)

Ashley I agree with you!:yeahthat:yeahthat


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## trunkbranches (Apr 14, 2013)

*Safety*

I work in a grocery store. Sometimes I get scared to eat certain vegetables and fruit to to recalls and sickness and stuff, due to raw manure being put on the veggies/fruit from these the store. Now is it any different at home? Not necessarily. I see my neighbor and many others putting raw manure directly onto their gardens. i was always taught from the time that I was in diapers that raw manure should never but never be put on a garden. Now I grew up on a small beef cattle ranch and small cow dairy. SO we had oodles of manure. Dad always taught us to compost the manure and only use it for fertilizer after it has turned to dirt. So many things can be unsafe, that we think are safe.

One of you ladies posted that statistically pasteurized milk is less safe (or something like that than raw milk. I'd love to see some things on that. One thing that I see with pasteurization is that the milk loses nutrients and isn't living food. Its like cooking veggies too much. Same thing. I'm also pretty sure that i read somewhere that pasteurizing doesn't always kill all thing and that part of what it kills is the good bacteria. This is part of what I am looking for. Like one person mentioned, pasteurization was created to get rid of harmful things in the milk. Is it safe? No. As another lady said, it can have bad milk or other things in it.

I personally believe in raw milk and raw foods and the benefits of it. However, is anything truly safe? Not in my mind. That's why as has been said that we need to do our homework on what is safe food and also check out the place where we purchase our foods... whatever it is. Likewise as people who are producers, it hink we need to be as clean and healthy about the production and distribution as possible. I also think this is one of the reasons some of us ask a blessing upon the foods we eat.

This is one of the reasons my herd is on DHI milk testing. Also why I'm working towards getting legal to sell the milk. Its also why I want to bring in mastitis tests and periodically test my milk. Then I will be getting my father-in-law's microbiology lab to teach my husband and I how to test our milk for bacteria, so that we can test our own milk periodically.

Am I afraid to drink my own milk? No, because I know where it has come from, as someone else said. Plus I have been drinking our own milk since I was about 4 years old, that we as a family produced.

Anyway, just my two cents worth.

Peg


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## JN (Nov 4, 2011)

People have been drinking raw milk since the beginning of time. My goodness...every time a baby is nursed they are drinking raw milk. I believe with proper handling it is absolutely safe and healthy.


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

I have a friend in Uganda right now. They bring the milk in, pasteurize it and leave it sitting all night uncovered on the stove. This is the milk they feed the baby. Eek! I thought of this conversation when I heard that, lol.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Yikes, Angie!


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## trunkbranches (Apr 14, 2013)

JN said:


> People have been drinking raw milk since the beginning of time. My goodness...every time a baby is nursed they are drinking raw milk. I believe with proper handling it is absolutely safe and healthy.


I believe this too. The only reason why I am looking at doing these things is because of sale of raw milk.. well, its hopefully in the works. government requires many of these things,, at least in my state anyway.

As far as safety, I agree with you 100%. I'm not worried to drink my own raw milk and have done so with my family's milk since I was in diapers and my family for generations. We never did any of these things I spoke of. We took great care of our milk.

However, to legal sell milk in my state, as I say, I would have to do many of these things that I mention. I'm sure not afraid of raw milk, if I know where it comes from.

thanks for your comments.


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## trunkbranches (Apr 14, 2013)

trunkbranches said:


> I believe this too. The only reason why I am looking at doing these things is because of sale of raw milk.. well, its hopefully in the works. government requires many of these things,, at least in my state anyway.
> 
> As far as safety, I agree with you 100%. I'm not worried to drink my own raw milk and have done so with my family's milk since I was in diapers and my family for generations. We never did any of these things I spoke of. We took great care of our milk.
> 
> ...


You are right about babies drinking raw milk.

Its up to everybody to make their own decisions.

As you say, people all throughout history drank raw milk without any problems. But some did have problems and that's why, I guess they discovered pasteurization. I don't like pasteurized milk for myself or my 4 legged babies. My baby goats get raw goat's milk. They dam raise and since I know where my milk is from, I don't worry about it and sell milk for other people's 4 legged babies.

Peg


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## trunkbranches (Apr 14, 2013)

swgoats said:


> I have a friend in Uganda right now. They bring the milk in, pasteurize it and leave it sitting all night uncovered on the stove. This is the milk they feed the baby. Eek! I thought of this conversation when I heard that, lol.


Yup, I would say yikes too... Eweeee

Peg


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## trunkbranches (Apr 14, 2013)

swgoats said:


> I have a friend in Uganda right now. They bring the milk in, pasteurize it and leave it sitting all night uncovered on the stove. This is the milk they feed the baby. Eek! I thought of this conversation when I heard that, lol.


Angie, does your friend say why they leave it on the stove? And also uncovered? Just curious their thought process.


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## trunkbranches (Apr 14, 2013)

This story reminds me of something I have to share. I was at a show in Idaho and left early. One of the guys there needed goat milk for their baby goats, so I left some (unstrained raw milk) for his baby goats.

Well my one neighbor said that she and another of our friends drank the milk. I said, "You know it isn't strained, right?" Her response was, "yep, and our friend drinks it that way all the time." 

I freaked out in my mind. Now my girls were clean, but...Oh my!!!


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

trunkbranches said:


> Angie, does your friend say why they leave it on the stove? And also uncovered? Just curious their thought process.


She didn't say, but the photo looked like it clabbered a little. No sure how old "the baby" is either.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Just curious, why does the woman in Uganda not breastfeed? I would imagine they don't have refrigeration at all, so it is not like they could keep it cold like we would.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Why would they have a stove and not refrigeration?

Some people just can't breastfeed, for whatever reason. I wish I couldn't LOL. I didn't really like it that much, but I'm having another baby and I'll probably nurse this one too. My first was nursed for 18 months and I kept wishing she'd get weaned sooner.


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## Nuttynanny (May 22, 2013)

Yes we must start taking responsibility for our own health and education. Nothing is totally safe, but there are ways to reduce the risk. We do the best we can to reduce the risk and that is all we can do. Yes bad things sometimes happen to good people, and mistakes are made.


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

doublebowgoats said:


> Just curious, why does the woman in Uganda not breastfeed? I would imagine they don't have refrigeration at all, so it is not like they could keep it cold like we would.


I don't know how old the "baby" is. Might not be an infant. I made it two years with my first, but the second weaned when I got pregnant with the third at just over a year. I tried to get him to continue, but he didn't like my milk anymore.


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

Story on the news tonight about raw breat milk (human) being sold on the internet. Tested and had bacteria... DUH!!--it's raw! It's gonna have bacteria. 

There is a difference between a baby nursing and milk (human, cow, goat, whatever) being expressed/milked and handled and stored.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Nancy, lots of people in third world countries don't have refrigeration and electricity, but just about everybody has a stove of some sort. Not all stoves are electric.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

People used to use springs to cool their milk. They would make a springhouse to store things in. Not as cold as refrigeration, but when you have a dozen kids running around I guess the milk doesn't have to last long anyway!

That's te beauty of these hills. Good water everywhere.


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## Starla (Aug 29, 2013)

on the subject of raw milk, I have a question. I have been asked to do a Homesteading Demo this Saturday (my first ever) and they have asked if I would also demo cheese making. I, of course is very excited!!! but....they also asked if I could give cheese samples...which I love sharing so that is not a problem either. Question is, would you give your cheese samples considering I use raw milk in my cheese? Would be ok with giving out raw milk cheese samples to the public? I have no problem with it, because it is what I believe in. but...a friend thought I should pasteurize it considering it will be served to the public. would love your thoughts and feed back!


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## jdavenport (Jul 19, 2012)

Please pasteurize the milk for the samples. You don't know the health status of the people you will be serving and although the risk is low, there is still more risk with raw milk fresh cheese than with pasteurized milk fresh cheese. Someone could be having immune system problems and might not even know it. Any raw milk cheese aged over 60 days is OK to serve. Also, be sure you have farm product liability insurance, even though you are giving free samples. If someone gets ill and they can trace it to you, Ugh. Good luck and have fun!


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## Lauraanimal1 (Oct 18, 2013)

Starla, I am very new at this so My advice may not be the best to follow. Here in Wyoming where I live you are allowed to give people raw milk or products made from raw milk if they are over for dinner or something. The law doesn't clearly state one way or the other if you have to point out to them that you use raw milk and etc. or not. However Me personally I would choose to do it (hand out sample of the cheese etc. BUT make sure there aware that there is a debate whether its safe or not and let them choose if they want to taste it or not because you wouldn't want it coming back on you that you didn't make them aware of what they was ingesting. This way you cover your rearend. I would say something along the line that you use your raw milk from the goats you raise and make raw goat milk cheese there more then welcome to sample it, just know it is a RAW food item and is not FDA ( or what ever the initials are) "approved" so its "at there own risk" kind of thing. Maybe before or after it, use that opportunity to explain the pro's and cons for raw milk. That way they are "informed" about that they are eating and "IF" someone per chance gets ill( with the flu or whatever else) they cant try and lay it back on you. Just my 2 cents worth and you know the old saying Opinions are like rearends, everyone has one and they normally stink...lol
Hope this helped in some way...lol
Laura


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Starla said:


> on the subject of raw milk, I have a question. I have been asked to do a Homesteading Demo this Saturday (my first ever) and they have asked if I would also demo cheese making. I, of course is very excited!!! but....they also asked if I could give cheese samples...which I love sharing so that is not a problem either. Question is, would you give your cheese samples considering I use raw milk in my cheese? Would be ok with giving out raw milk cheese samples to the public? I have no problem with it, because it is what I believe in. but...a friend thought I should pasteurize it considering it will be served to the public. would love your thoughts and feed back!


What are your state regulations?


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## Cannon_farms (Nov 17, 2009)

I just was given this link, I dont have time to wade through several pages so I apologies if it has already been posted but here it is., http://banoosh.com/blog/2013/07/02/new-science-confirms-raw-milk-is-remarkably-safe/ just an FYI, I use raw milk from us for us but tend to pasteurize if I have to use milk from another farm even though I know they are clean. My two baby girls where raised on it since they where six weeks old (i had to go back to work) and they are bright children who well met their development goals while not becoming chubby.


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