# urinary tract infection?



## pokyone42 (Oct 26, 2007)

My sis-in-law called in tears a couple of days ago, about her yearling wether, (given to her by us as a bottle kid, along with another wether, and 2 doe kids.) 

She and her 4 goats are in Massachussets, and I am in NY. (Just so ya know that I cannot run right over there to help her out.) 

This guy...Ivan (who is probably 150-160 pounds...I dunno, as I have not seen him since he left here last year as a baby...and we have his sister who is a moose...so I am just assuming his weight.) was crying and in pain, and kicking at his belly. ACK! (Ivan is a Boer, with a little Alpine. a big fellow these days.) He is also her best eater, and bigmouth, and sweet as can be.

Anyway, my first thought was either Entero, or Urinary Calculi. I had her take his temp... normal.. Not wanting to eat or drink. Would get up, kick at belly, lay down. Had been fine the night before. On grass hay, with alfalfa pellets and Blue Seal medicated meat goat grower and finisher. (It has ammonium chloride in the grain.) Minerals, baking soda, browse, etc.

As she never got many supplies for her goats, and also did not vaccinate for CDT this year...(ack) I thought Entero... ( I have thankfully never had to deal with that, but looked in my goat medicine book when she called.) To me, it sounded like the early stages of Enterotoxemia. 

But, maybe UC. I SOOO wished I was closer, as I could get a look and feel of him, as we have the antitoxin, and Banamine, etc...she has nothing. (a little irksome, as I told her what she ought to have on hand last year, when my hubby delivered her 4 goats. I even printed out a VERY simple to read instruction booklet for her...argh.) Oh well... to be honest, I don't even think they have been WORMED since they went to her place, (which might be the problem in itself!) Argh.. Frustrating sometimes....I even sent her here to this forum... but now doubt she ever visited.

Anyway, the best I could do, was to tell her that if Ivan was worth it to her, to try and find a decent vet who knows goats, and get him seen ASAP, as there may not be much time. 

After talking to 3 vets, she finally found one who would see Ivan.
He came out about 5 hours later, and thought it was NOT Entero, because he was not in "enough pain yet." She had given him some baking soda earlier.

Thankfully, he at least gave him Banamine for his obvious pain,, and gave her enough for about 4 days, and gave him probiotics. He leaned more toward UC, but he admitted that he had no idea, really, what was going on, so took blood for testing, but did not check his penis for grit, or even look at it at all.

He called yesterday, and told her that Ivan had a urinary tract infection, and has him on Procaine Pen-G, 5 cc's IM for 7 days. The goat is still not eating...

But, not to second-guess a vet or anything, but I am going to... ...(of course, after the experiences I have had with "goat vets," lol) wouldn't (or shouldn't) he have had a fever with a UTI? His temp has been 102.2 right along.. and yesterday morning, he had full blown diarreah, too. Another symptom of Entero... right?
I dunno...I HOPE her vet is right, and that he gets better.... $250.00 for a wether....PHEW! (She thought "it wans't bad at all" lol)

I cannot HELP but think, tho, that if he was vaccinated, de-wormed, etc....he might be just fine. Anyway, after this LONG and rambling story....I have NEVER had a goat with a UTI...Have you? And, how likely do you think this is the problem in this goat?
Oh, and I also suggested she give Ivan some vitamin C to acidify his urine in case of UC, but after seeing the vet, she is poo-pooing what I say now. She LOVES this vet! He was gentle (which is very nice) and could not believe how FRIENDLY her goats are...He also told her to give the Pen-G in the muscle...I told her if it was more comfortable for her, to give it sub-Q as she has not given many injections at all, and NEVER in the muscle... In fact, my husband gave them their Bo-se in March when he visited, AND trimmed their hooves, as she is afraid to do anything that might hurt them. ack. 
Anyway, do you all agree with the vet on this one... that it is a UTI?
I am very curious about this. I have not heard from her today, but, (and this is terrible) I keep expecting her to call and tell me that he died.) Am I a cynic or what? lol
Anyway, I would appreciate your thought on this..
Thank-you in advance!


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

He doesn't have a UTI he has urinary calculi. He won't have a fever until after he bladder bursts. The vet can stick a double ended blood draw needle into his belly and pull urine onto the ground, his bladder should be that large, if he doesn't cut the pizzle off (that little alien protrusion on the penis) and manipulate any stones out he can, put the buck on 1 tablespoon of ammonium chloride, vets have this in a paste for cats, just tell him to use alot, you can't use too much until she can get ammonium chloride in, if he can't pass the stones than put him down. The surgery is gruesome, leaves him peeing all over his back legs and is expensive.

Like your guessing on his weight your guessing on his management, and why we don't do second party info on the forum, in the end it is a waste of time because nobody but the owner knows really what she is doing. Treats, top dressing of snacks, grain from other animals on the place, dogfood, chicken feed, all disrupt the ammonium chloride in the meat goat pellet. And for a 150 pound guy to have enough AC for his 1 teaspoon per head per day that is like 3 to 5 pounds of the pellets per day...less if he is really getting alfalfa each day.

Also 5cc of penn...that is enough for a 75 pound? buck at 3cc per 50 pounds every 12 hours...and UTI's are treated with oral sulfas.

Entero strikes quickly it is not a progressive disease, once the clostridum starts to grow, they are down and dead. By the time you really start treating they are dead, it's usually a disease of very fast growing kids who are hogs, when it hits older stock it's missmanagement, nearly always a too sudden change in something. Running out of grain or hay and then filling a feeder or pouring too much grain the next day when it comes in. It mimic's bloat. Why all the antitoxin talk is usually busy work, your not going to treat entero with just an antitoxin shot anyway, and most of the time you dont' have time to even draw it up. Most of the entero we see on the forum is acidosis.

There isn't alot to do unless you can one day mail her AC, talk her vet into cutting off the pizzle and seeing if he can manipulate stones out...ultrasound the bladder to see if it's destended...hopefully with him not drinking he is getting subq fluids, but of course it will make more urine, once the bladder bursts he will feel fine, until fever starts and he goes septic. Is there any urine for him to do a culture on to see if it really is bacteria? For the money she is spending I would hope so. Vicki


----------



## icboers (Feb 1, 2009)

I had a doe get a UTI this year. Hers was actually a UTI and Bladder infection, but I agree this sounds more like UC.

My doe would lay down and stretch out and scream. Then she would stand all hunched up and groan, then lay down and stretch out. She didn't eat and only ran a slight fever of 104. The vet came to this diagnosis with a urine sample and he said she definitely had an infection.


----------

