# Palm Oil vs. Lard



## mamatomany

With my Christmas sales I went and purchased some bulk supplies. I replaced my walmart Lard with palm oil. I ran it thru a few different ways into soapcalc. and there really wasn't much of a difference at all? I'm hoping there are not going to be big differences in my soap. The recipe includes palm oil, shea, coconut oil, and sunflower oil. Any thoughts? Thanks, Linda


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## Kalne

Most of my bars are made with palm oil. While *I* personally haven't noticed a difference I have heard people say they feel the lard bars are a bit more conditioning. And I do think my tallow bars are a tad harder than my palm bars.


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## Aja-Sammati

I haven't noticed much differnce. I think my lard bars don't last as long as my palm oil bars.


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## nightskyfarm

I do not use lard and only use palm, coconut, canola, safflower, olive, mango and shea butters. My basic combination is coconut, palm and safflower. It makes a very nice bar of soap, though I am fond of the mango butter. When I use the butters, I replace the safflower oil with one of the butters. All recipes are run through the calc. I have never used lard, do you all like using it? Many customers do not want animal products in their soap. Jennifer


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## kidsngarden

Lard is my preferred hard soaping oil. I don't like palm really at all. I don't know if it's just me, but it seems like there is less fragrance and the fragrance is different in a palm bar that a lard. I use over 50% lard, if I use the same recipe just subbing out palm for lard (running through a calc before of course) I prefer the lard bar. In My area very few people care


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## Faye Farms

I use lard, coconut, sunflower and castor in my main recipe. I had tried palm but I wasn't impressed with it. I think lard leaves my recipe much more conditioning and I like the lather better. 

I have an advantage with using lard though. I raise many butcher hogs a year. I sell whole hogs to customers and I have retail cuts made up for me to sell here at the farm. Most of my customers do not want the lard from their hog so I get it instead. Lard is virtually a free ingredient for me. I'm in an area where most people don't mind lard. Occasionally I will come across a person that cares. Most times I just need to tell them about my farm and they will buy.


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## cybercat

I use lard or tallow. Hubby prefers it and so do I. I have used many veggi based soaps over the years and now make my own soap because it was hard to find a AO soap. My recipe is alot like many other s lard 50% coconut and safflower oil and salt. We have skin issues all acne related and this is what works best.


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## Anita Martin

I used a lot of lard in the beginning. It makes great soap. But, I've had many people turn their noses up when they read the label, so I quit using it. As far as animal products, my main ingredient, goats milk, is certainly an animal product! It's simply a matter of label appeal. My "cheap" oil, besides the necessary coconut oil, is canola. I'd rather use sunflower, or some other "quality-sounding" oil, but canola is much cheaper and I don't have to ship it. I do plan to switch one day, just for label appeal.


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## Merry Beth

I didn't think you had to put all your ingredients on the label?? Not wanting to be dishonest but is that true anyway?


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## kidsngarden

As long as you aren't making any claims about your soap then you don't have to. So if you are just saying it's soap then no, but if you are saying it's "face soap" or "extra moisturizing soap" or "acne soap" or "soap for sensitive skin" then you have to.

It's best not to make any claims anyhow.

I still list ingredients.


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## adillenal

I have 4 basic soap formulas.
olive oil based
lard based
tallow based
palm based
I have something for everyone. Every once in awhile I have people either turn their nose up at lard or specifically request it. They seem to be more interested in the fragrance than the oils used.

I include a full listing of ingredients on everything that I make.


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## Aja-Sammati

No you don't have to, but it sure is nice to be honest :biggrin I come from a different perspective- several members of my family are Jewish, and they can not use soap that contains lard. If my Aunt got a bar of handcrafted soap with no ingredients as a gift, she would give or throw it away. She is a real handcrafted soap-a-holic, too, she buys soap everywhere she travels on business, always handmade and usually from farmer's markets. For soapers near cities, or ethnic populations, it pays to think about ingredients.


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## Trysta

I made my first soap with lard (that was actually the very first time I used lard in anything, ever!) and was surprised and totally exstatic with the product. My skin reacts to almost all soap products (never really can use bar soap), so I was very afraid to try my own soap, but it's great and after using it for my hands for awhile, I use it in the shower now and I love it. 

I did start tweeking the recipe somewhat, but I am actually afraid to throw the lard out, since I'm guessing that is what makes the difference for me. Never thought about lard being absolutely impossible to use for Jewish customers, so I will have to extend my experiments to non-lard soap. Hmmm, so canola would be the best alternative? Going to try that.


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## Aja-Sammati

I may have misunderstood you- Canola is not a good substitution for lard! It is a liquid oil at room temp, while lard is solid. That is why palm is the usual replacement for lard. Muslims also cannot use lard soap, and many people in the vegetarian thought lines will use a soap made with milk but not with lard (the goat didn't die to give you the milk, and most dairy goats are humanely treated).

Remember that most people that have a reaction to 'soap' will not have a reaction to handcrafted soap, especially not GM soap. The stuff you buy int he store is usually a detergent, not a soap, and has had most of the glycerin removed and a bunch of garbage added. I know a few people that have a reaction to handcrafted GM soap, but it is a true fragrance reaction, or they react to a soap that is not superfatted enough, or they react to a certain oil- since it is 'good' soap, I trust the reaction is to that thing.

If I raised my own hogs, I would probably use lard...


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## hsmomof4

I use lard and tallow from local small farms/kids' 4H project, etc, that I render myself. Makes fabulous soap. But I also make some veggie bars, because I do have some customers who do not want animal fats (they don't care about GM, just lard and tallow) in their soap. 

As Michelle said, canola is not a good sub for lard. You generally want to use palm if you need a veggie alternative to lard or tallow. Of course, palm has its own issues, with not always being sustainably grown/harvested, being transported from the other side of the globe, etc. Under the circumstances in which I use lard and tallow, it's a much "greener" choice than palm would be. But that's still not going to sell it to a Muslim, Jew, Hindu, or vegan.


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## eam

I use 50% lard in all my bars and love them. (I render my own lard as well.) I also use goat milk for the liquid (100%) so I'll never be a vegetarian soap. I don't really sell, but from what I see, people are much more interested in the fragrance than the ingredients. I have a Jewish neighbor who loves my lard soap (and asks for it for her mother!).

As for labelling, I understood that if you put any ingredients on the label, you must include them all. You can't pick and choose. But, there's no requirement to put ingredients on the label at all.

Elizabeth


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## Trysta

Okay, Palm it is, but yeah, it's definitely not the greener choice and, now that I realize I have two hogs walking beside the barn until their time comes..... I'll have VERY humanely raise lard, since these hoggies have it made in their big pen and being fed all kinds of good stuff, including goat milk!

Ehm, Elizabeth, does your Jewish neighbor realize there's lard in your soap? That may come as a shock to her. I find that most people have absolutely no clue what's in the products they buy or, for that matter, how their food even makes it to Walmart or whatever handy store they buy it at! 

Two more questions: 

1. Since coconut oil is a solid at room temp, would that also be a Lard replacement candidate?
2. How important is that 'solid' oil? I hear some people make soap from mainly olive oil, or does that just mean olive is their main ingredient and that they do add another solid oil?

Marion


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## eam

I'm certain she knows there's lard in it; when she first looked at it she read the ingredients label pretty carefully and lard is the first ingredient. Apparently she doesn't care! Now, her mother (age 91) on the other hand, I've never met, so I don't know what my neighbor told her. Actually when I gave her the first soap, I didn't know she was Jewish and didn't even think about it. But, she's come back for more.


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## hsmomof4

We have some friends of our family who are ethnically Jewish but not religiously observant and they don't care about the lard, either. (And they eat pork, too.) But for someone who is Jewish in a religious sense (which you can be whether you are ethnically a Jew or not), pork products are a no-no. 

Different oils have different qualities. Across the board, palm is the most similar vegetable oil to lard (or tallow). Coconut is also solid, but it has different qualities and would change the character of your soap. Not that you can't use a lot of coconut if that's what you want to do, but it will be very different from a bar with palm or lard or tallow. Apart from olive oil, I don't know of other liquid oils that are used as the "main" oil in a soap. And yes, you can do a straight olive oil soap, it's called Castile, but other liquid oils don't work well that way.


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## Trysta

And the panic is slowly rising as I realize how scarily little I know.......


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## 2Sticks

I was just going to say the same thing that they probably aren't observant. I wouldn't use a bar of soap that didn't have the ingredients because I would be leary there was lard in it. I would feel bad to waste it, but I wouldn't take the chance.

I do use Palm and have been happy with my bars.


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## NubianSoaps.com

Know also that solid shortenings are also only solid because they are hydrogenated. So crisco that is 100% soybean but is solid, is in fact exactly the same as 100% soybean oil, sold at walmart etc...as vegetable oils. So use it, you don't have to melt it then.

The reason palm is 'like' lard and tallow is because it contains natural steric...you can buy steric acid and add it to your all veggy oil bars, to have a harder bar faster and also a bar that releases from the mold faster. thesage.com has a calculator that tells you how much steric to add to your batch if you want.

Marion, it is a huge learning curve, afterall it is a chemical reaction/saponification. It's why I think starting with the walmart recipe is such a good way to start, then as you tweak the oils and butters to other things, see if you can keep the values the same....like on another thread this week, someone is moving from sunflower to canola, which has a decidedly lower amount on the scale in iodine, something not talked about on the forum because most worry about lather....the more you can learn about all the properties oils and butters give to your soap, and realise also that nobody is going to share with you their recipe they sell, you find out quickly it's important to learn the science behind this IF you want to move to sales.

If you are going to soap tallow or lard, do have a second recipe that is all veggy for the purists who won't buy tallow or lard or fragranced oils or palm or scent or color  Vicki


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## Aja-Sammati

:yeahthat

Most of my bars are 50% olive oil- but I have one that is 50% sunflower oil and no olive at all. It is about creating a bar that has characteristics that you like (and for me, more importantly, that my customers like!) You have to start somewhere- don't be intimidated, it is easier than you think! My palm oil is sustainably grown & organic, which is a trade off in cost, but has no chemical residues like store bought lard might. It is all about what works for you!

I actually teach one of my sale recipes, but I don't tell anyone which one it is


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## Lynn_Theesfeld

Millers soap page I believe has a part where it tells you what each oil has into it and what it brings...I think that's the right site... That's where i learned a ton about oils though. 
I have used rice bran oil just like I would lard or olive or even palm, and it works just as wonderfully as the above.


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## Trysta

Thank you all for the tips and info, and yes, I work that way, where I want to understand the science behind everything, it's how my mind works. I'm not good with storing away a whole bunch of loose facts, but if I thoroughly understand a process I can hang all the facts on the right hooks. Researching and studying already, because, yes, I think I do want to go into soap sales. I think I really like doing this! 

Oh and Vicki, I did start with the Walmart recipe and I actually really like the result, but I would like to be a bit more creative, especially with bringing some texture in the soap and trying to work with a lot of natural ingredients/herbs so my brain is going full speed at the moment. I asked a question on how and when to add oatmeal to the soap in some thread today, but don't think it was answered. Can anybody help me with that? And what type of oatmeal? Thanks!

Marion


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## Trysta

Oh, sorry, I found the oatmeal answer. Thanks, Vicki!!! :biggrin


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## MF-Alpines

Trysta said:


> And the panic is slowly rising as I realize how scarily little I know.......


No need to panic. Read and make, read and make. Trial and error is not a bad thing. You'll do fine.


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## Trysta

MF-Alpines said:


> No need to panic. Read and make, read and make. Trial and error is not a bad thing. You'll do fine.


  Thanks, Cindy, I'm going to take that advice!


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## carlidoe

I love my lard soap. Before I switched to lard I was using Crisco. I did a really big show near Austin earlier this month. I sold over 300 products and no one asked for a vegetable bar. I know those customers are out there, but I'm guessing they are vegan and would steer clear of GM soap anyway. I copied another for my ingredients label, "saponified natural fats and oils of yadda, yadda."


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## a4patch

I have people ask for lard soap and Lard makes such a nice bar of soap.


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