# What to Feed?



## hmcintosh (Jan 8, 2013)

I am wanting to get some ideas on what is the best healthiest feed to feed my goats. I have nubians and I am fairly new to raising them. I want to do it right so any suggestions would be appreciated. Right now I feed mostly alfalfa pellets, we don't have the best hay in this area. I do feed hay but they pick through it alot. I also add grain (16% horse feed) for my milkers but it seems I am having some problems with congested udders and low milk production. I would really like to feed my girls good and know that I am giving them feed that will be good for them and good for the milk.


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

You might be feeding too much protein. Alfalfa can be really high in protein, so you might not need the 16% grain. I feed a 50/50 mix of alfalfa pellets and oats, with alfalfa/grass mixed hay (the hay really varies from bale to bale). I feed the same year round, just adjust amounts according to need.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Does your horse 16% have molasses in it? If so change it out slowly with dry cob. How many lbs of this grain are you feeding? How much of the Alfalfa pellets are you feeding. A congested udder is from a high protien diet or an animal that is positive for CAE. Have you tested for CAE? What else do they get? Loose minerals? Copper bolus? Black oil sunflower seed? Beet Pulp? Any other additives? All of these questions answers will help us be able to help you.


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## hmcintosh (Jan 8, 2013)

No the horse feed doesn't have molasses. I feed Alfalfa pellets first at about 1 pd and if my milkers will eat it I just let them but one of them won't hardly eat it so I give her about 1 pd of horse feed with a handful of boss about a tbsp of diamond v. I feed my dry does 1 pd to 1 1/2 pds of alfalfa and right now some corn mixed in with it. I have not tested for CAE. I do leave out a goat mineral can't remember the name of it right now but it comes from a store up in north carolina (i think my friends husband picks it up for me), it is a natural goat mineral. I don't copper bolus I use multimin 90 instead of bolusing. I haven't ever used the beet pulp. I hope this helps.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

I have experience with both congested udders from feeding too much protein as well as with CAE. With CAE, the udder will be rock-hard and you will get almost no milk. With a congested udder, it is very firm, a little harder to milk out, but you will get milk. It looks/feels like you didn't empty the udder, even when you have.

I have adjusted my feeding program this year for the girls prior to kidding. I'm hoping for less congestion at kidding time, but I won't know until my first doe kids mid-March. My CAE doe was put down. 

Please get your does tested for CAE. You do not want to perpetuate this problem in your herd. Knowing the status makes all the difference in the world. If a doe is positive, you can pull kids, heat-treat colostrum and pasteurize milk. You can have a CAE- herd in no time by doing this!


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Hard to go wrong with browse/grass hay plus alfalfa pellets (2-3 lbs per doe), oats- enough to keep weight on, and BOSS (sunflower seeds)/rice bran/oil for fat, a good mineral and good clean water. Just make changes slowly, like over a period of a month- the way food sources naturally change in nature. 2 weeks minimum anyway.


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## hmcintosh (Jan 8, 2013)

Responding to MF Alpines. I'm sure this doe has had a congested udder because it was just like you described about congested udder. I haven't learned to take blood so I haven't tested for CAE but it is something I need to learn to do. I think I may need to feed what Ashley said, she isn't the first person that has told me thats what they feed and their goats look really good.


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

I feed Chaffhaye alfalfa and oats, along with coastal grass hay. Chaffhaye is a great alternative to alfalfa hay or pellets, especially for those of us here in the South. We don't feed pelleted concentrates. I recently started topdressing with sunflower oil to bring up the total fat and have been happy with the results.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Sorry, I didn't address the feed.

I live in the north so we get really good alfalfa here that stores well. I feed either 100% alfalfa or an alfalfa/grass hay mix heavy in alfalfa. I feed the "Sondra mix" (you can search the forum for it); it's a COB mix with beet pulp and BOSS. It about 11% protein. I do add calf manna to up the protein when needed. As I stated in my first post, I am not going to "up" the protein 'til after they kid as I believe they are getting enough through the hay. Minerals of course and my girls do get some browse, but obviously there's nothing here right now. Fresh water daily. Bucks only get grain during rut and perhaps a bit after to add some weight to them. They get the alfalfa/grass mix hay and mins. I also copper bolus.


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## hmcintosh (Jan 8, 2013)

Can anyone tell me where to find the "Sondra Mix"?


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## skeeter (Aug 11, 2010)

Sondra Mix
Whole Oats	37%
Barley 37%
BOSS 9%
Cracked Corn 9%
Beet Pulp 7%


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

skeeter said:


> Sondra Mix
> Whole Oats	37%
> Barley 37%
> BOSS 9%
> ...


Just a note for what I do, I found if my feed mill mixes in the beet pulp, it ends up turning into fines. So I add the beet pulp myself. The girls like it much better.


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## Angela (Feb 13, 2010)

Here is an older thread with the mix ingredients and amounts listed in lbs:

http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/f19/sondra-mix-26520/

ETA: well that was strange - it did not show me the 2nd page where MF-Alpines and Skeeter had already answered until after I posted.


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## SANDQ (Dec 27, 2011)

Now we are on this subject, I too am trying to get my feeding regime correct, I can get all ingredients in Sondras mix apart from the beet pulp here in Bulgaria. Can I increase the amount of something else in the mix to compensate for not having beet pulp. What is the beet pulp for? I presume the grains have to be milled/ground before they are fed?


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/f20/barley-oat-comparison-beet-pulp-16518/ Here is info on beet pulp. I have heard of something called citrus pulp, which I wonder if it is similar to beet pulp. The beet pulp is a by-product of sugar manufacturing from sugar beets. Ruminants have the ability to break down whole grains without processing.


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## SANDQ (Dec 27, 2011)

Thanks Nancy, we used to feed beet pulp to cows and I was told it was for gut fill only, " myth busted ". So to recap, from the article Beet pulp has around the same protein level as oats, so by my reckoing I could drop the pulp and increase the oats? I could feed Sondras mix as whole grains without needing to mill any of its ingredients? But I could mill them if I choose to? The reason for asking this is because around our village you see alot of goat poop ( goats using the roads to go to and from the pasture ) and this time of year you see alot of whole grains in the poop. I see this a nutrients not absorbed, and money spent on grains wasted.


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

I feed whole oats and don't feed beet pulp. I have fed it in the past, but when I went to feeding just alfalfa and whole grains (along with grass hay) I really wanted to simplify things. I haven't missed it.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

If you are seeing that, those goats are probably either getting too much grain, or rumens are not functioning well for some reason. You could mill it if you want, but I wouldn't ground it, maybe rolled or chopped would be good. If you ground it, it will be too powdery, and you may end up with a lot of acidosis from super quick digestion. Ruminants are meant to digest things slowly. The corn, yes, I would do something to process it probably, because it is large hard chunks, probably hard on their teeth...and maybe the barley (I feed whole barley, but don't have any old goats to say if it is wearing their teeth quicker or not).


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## SANDQ (Dec 27, 2011)

Thanks thats a great help, now Im in a position to move forward. One more question is this a 16% protein ration, can I tweak amounts to get 18% and use it as a kid starter feed?


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

This is ration is only about 11% protein. You'd need to add something to up the protein.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Just FYI, for those wanting to avoid them, beet pulp is GMO (as is likely alfalfa and, of course, corn and soy).


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## SANDQ (Dec 27, 2011)

So if Sondras mix is only 11% cant I just adjust the amounts of ingedients using the Pearson square method to get a higher protein level? Its difficult for me here in Bulgaria to get the ingredients you have available in the US. Or, feeding Sondras mix with alfalfa hay only, does this give the goat the required protein levels.
Does anyone have any experience with wheat bran? As it is high in fiber could I use this instead of beet pulp?


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

Chaffhaye alfalfa is non-GMO, Ashley. 

Does the fiber need to be upped in the grain ration? We're relying on our alfalfa and grass hay to provide fiber, so I've never been concerned about it in the grain.


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## Blackbird (Jan 11, 2013)

Sandq, have you read this article on here?
http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/f20/nutrition-protein-building-rumen-kids-etc-18739/
I was reading it last night about found it very interesting.. I am not sure of your needs but it goes over protein and how it affects the body. You may not need an 18 or even 16%. I'm in the process now of trying to create a lower protein & higher fat grain mix.


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## SANDQ (Dec 27, 2011)

Thank you Merle for that, about the development of the rumen I did actually know this and practice it on my kids as alot of my life Ive worked with calves. However, if feeding alfalfa, grains should only be fed at 12%, this I did not know. I have been feeding 16% up till now but have only been giving a poor quality grass hay, I am in the process of completely rethinking and changing my feeding regime, The main change being to change from grass to alfala hay fed 365 and formulating a correct grain ration. So this piece of information is extremely valuable, thank you. At the start I only had 2 goats, but now I have alot more Ive realized how inefficient/ not correct my feed regime has been, and I aim to change this, so thank you all for you input Quentin and Sally


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## Liss (Jul 20, 2010)

I took mine to the vet for that blood draw. It wasnt expensive and I have a closed herd with no sheep having been on the property - so I think I am fairly risk free as far as CAE. My two does came from a reputable tested, herd and no other contact that wasnt tested.


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## hmcintosh (Jan 8, 2013)

I am the one started this post and since I have posted I have mixed my own feed. I mixed whole oats, steamed rolled barley, wheat bran, boss, & winter peas. It has only came to 
11% and so I am wondering since I feed 17% dehydrated alfalfa pellets would this make up the protein difference? Also another question, how much are we supposed to feed? I have read
where to much grain can cause udder congestion or not enough grain can cause less milk production so what is the best feed amount? I don't have good quality hay right now (will know better
next year).


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

hmcintosh said:


> I am the one started this post and since I have posted I have mixed my own feed. I mixed whole oats, steamed rolled barley, wheat bran, boss, & winter peas. It has only came to
> 11% and so I am wondering since I feed 17% dehydrated alfalfa pellets would this make up the protein difference? Also another question, how much are we supposed to feed? I have read
> where to much grain can cause udder congestion or not enough grain can cause less milk production so what is the best feed amount? I don't have good quality hay right now (will know better
> next year).


Not a simple question, LOL! This will depend on how old they are, what condition they are in and what stage of pregnancy, if any.


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## hmcintosh (Jan 8, 2013)

Well, lets see I have 2 yearlings, 2 two yr old does, 3 older does and 4 babies. (I do have 2 bucks but they only get alfalfa and hay mostly) I have 2 pregnant and one that just got bred hopefully. I just feel like my goats are not in the best of condition and I have problems with udder congestion and just am not sure if I am feeding the right amounts. It really bothers me because my hay is not good hay. But I am living and learning. I am new to raising dairy goats and just want to have healthy goats.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Kids: Are you feeding them a bagged medicated feed or your whole grain mix? I'd suggest a bagged medicated mix since you are new and you live in the south. You will want to do everything you can to keep cocci at bay. If you are feeding them your grain mix, pick up a bag of medicated crumbles to add to it for the kids. Also, keep up on the cocci and worming meds as outlined in Goat Keeping 101. You will be thankful for this later.

Dry Does: Just the hay and alfalfa pellets. If you feel that they are still not looking their best, perhaps a lb of grain per day until they are in better condition.

Pregnant does: If they are lacking condition, now is the time to get them into condition BEFORE they kid. I usually start them back on grain (11% protein) at 100 days bred. This year, I will not up the protein until about a week before they are due.

All that being said, make changes slowly and increase amounts slowly. I would add an additional fat to your mix unless you are feeding a lot of BOSS. You can use rice bran pellets or top dress your feed with oil.

Also, a proper worming schedule is also very important. Have they been wormed and with what and at what dosage and when?


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## hmcintosh (Jan 8, 2013)

Couple questions for MF Alpine (sorry I know you have a name somewhere but couldn't find it). What kind of oil can I use? 

Yes I do worm I have been having a problem with barberpole and have had some goats resistant to cydectin so I have been using levimisole and safeguard together and have had pretty good results with it. Any suggestions? 

Thanks so much for your help.


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

I have started using high oleic sunflower oil to top dress.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

My name is in the same place as yours. 

I'm no expert on oil, but I, too, would use sunflower oil as I have that in house for soap.

If your wormer is working for you and you know that because you fecal and check eyelids, then stick with it. No reason to change something just because someone else is doing something different. Just be sure you KNOW it is working.


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## hmcintosh (Jan 8, 2013)

Ok. Yeah I found out the hard way that one of my goats was resistant to cydectin when she became really anemic and lost lots of weight. Gave her levimisole and safeguard (thanks to the forum) and it wiped the worms out fast. I haven't learned to fecal yet I pay the vet for that service  but it is in my future plans to learn how.

The reason I couldn't see your name was when I hit the reply button everyones info doesn't show on that page. Thanks CINDY  for all your help.


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## Liss (Jul 20, 2010)

I know BOSS increases milk production - however, what is the purpose of the extra fat? If I top dressed liquid oil I dont think my goats would eat it - they are quite snooty. -(


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

The oil never even slowed them down and mine are just as snooty as the rest.  What part of BOSS is going to increase milk production? I know folk use it to up the fat percentage, but I hadn't seen it referenced as increasing production. The oil is serving exactly the same purpose as BOSS, but is much less expensive for me.


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## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

Remember that what works for one person may not work for another. I recommend once you find something that works for your herd (healthy animals, good milk production, they look good, ect) leave the regimen alone.

When I started in dairy goats in 2006 I started feeding the way the first two Nubians breeders fed their animals. And then being on line I found so may different ways to feed them and I tried fixing something that wasn't broke. *My* goats did not look well nor milk well on the grass hay/alfalfa pellet diet or alfalfa hay w/ oats; their milk production when down to almost nothing....they never look as good on the grass hay/alfalfa pellets as they do on the alfalfa but I have access to quality alfalfa hay. I also tried different mixes over the years (some I had seen from this site, others were from another dairy goat site). I just found that *my* goats never done well on anything I tried. I had even tried the pre-bagged feeds....I ended up switching back to the old way of feeding, like I learned with the 2 Nubian breeders I first met. 
I finally have the mentality; if it ain't broke, don't fix it. My mix is corn/oats/dairy pellet/beet pulp. It's a 17% protein grain(it actually rounded out to .16something but I rounded up to 17 for the protein percent) with quality alfalfa hay. Girls look great and milk very well also.


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## Liss (Jul 20, 2010)

Amy, what are the proportions you use for the corn/oats/etc. And what does beet pulp actually do?

I just bought a bag of alfalfa pellets because the alfalfa is so stemy right now - at the beginning of the season - it looks alot different. I have not had freshened does for the last year - have two due to kid April and May. Mine are Nigerians
Thanks!


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Melissa, do a search on here about "beet pulp". It is also in one of the two recent grain/feeding threads.

The "search" function is you friend.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Amy, you need to remember that we can get really good quality alfalfa hay here as well as a high percentage of it, too. Not everyone can. And if they can, it may not be able to be stored well. 

Like you said, what works for YOU, may not work for others.


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