# Age for banding buck kids



## old dominion (Oct 25, 2007)

What is the best age to band a buck kid for pet purposes?

Thanks a million,

Jolene


----------



## Guest (Apr 5, 2008)

I band less than 24 hours old here. Seems that they have pain when you do it that young. Its then or I wait till they are about 3 months old and use the clip cattle bander.

Ken in MO


----------



## Becky-DixieDoesAlpines (Oct 26, 2007)

We rarely band kids but a cull buckling would get banded by 1 week of age here.
Becky


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

We have Nubians and i don't disbud till 7 to 10 days- this is when i band.
If you do it too early the entirety of the testicles may not be descended into the scrotum.
My husband has butchered them later to find residual testicular tissue which is no problem if you keep them away from your does ( ours hang out with the bucks) but if you are letting them live with does or doe kids there is a small possibility of them retaining fertility.

I have a neighbor with Boers that does it at 3 days.
Lee


----------



## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

If I am keeping a wether for a pet I wait as long as possible when I can barely shove one testicle in the band at a time I wait because somewhere I read that this allows the urthea tube to grown thus less risk of urinary calculi. However I really don't know that this is true. Just what I do.


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

I read that also but we don't worry about it because our wethers are headed for the dog freezer when the grass dies. I think that would probably be a consideration for longevity in a pet or buck buddy.

Lee


----------



## stacy adams (Oct 29, 2007)

I wether in the general vicinity of 6 - 8 weeks old. I'm like Sondra, I read that the urethra could be compromised by banding too early, though I don't know this for a fact. The 8 weeks old happened when we forgot.. :~/ 
Stacy


----------



## Qvrfullmidwife (Oct 25, 2007)

I think that it was Vicki who said that she doesnt put much stock inn the idea that letting the urethra grow would help prevent UC because of the observation that adult intact bucks also get it with no question of whether enough time was allowed for that urethra to grow...


----------



## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

That is true LeeAnne, Vicki did say that and as usual she is probably right. I don't band anything that is going for meat so when I did keep a wether at one time I waited. Now many people I know that keep their kids on does until 8wks old or over always band by 8wks and many people state the growing out meat goats have better growth by banding. I just don't keep any around anymore period unless they are going to be a herd sire and I don't sell for pets ever because of bad experiences that I have had personally.


----------



## judyvansmith (Apr 2, 2008)

I am getting some Nigerian goats for pets this month. After reading all the post on this question I am not clear on what I should do. My vet is not a "big on goats guy", he is great with my dogs but he is not up on his goats. One of the goats I am getting will be wethered by my vet while the goat is put to sleep at 8 weeks of age. Unless you tell me otherwise here.
I had read all the post about troubles they could have if it was done too early so I ask my vet about it. My vet said it was not a real concern, he had read studies done on male cats that showed there were no differance in doing it early or later. Male cats ? I was not sure about his point of veiw there.
My question to the list is, "If you were going to wether a goat that you wanted to live a long healthy life as a pet, when would you do it? "
Thank you for your help,

Judy Smith


----------



## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

> Male cats ? I was not sure about his point of veiw there.


Neutered male cats have a real problem with UC. I can't even start to tell you how many we unblocked. Tee,hee...reason the small catheters are called "Tom Cat Catheters".

If you are buying an 8 week old intact male...have it done ASAP. And with ND...I sure wouldn't want to put him in with females until it's done. They're kinda' hormone driven at any age! :lol
Kaye


----------



## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

Nuetering bucks can be a challenge. Waiting too long means the knife. The last one I did was a buck at 4 or 5 months old. I cut the sack and pulled out the testicles breaking (not cutting) the cord just as my Vet showed me. I did 3 of them - it was almost bloodless. Two survived, one died of shock. In the future, what can be done to prevent shock? Another breeder told me, that I should have made this one get up regularly to prevent shock. I have a burdezo that I could use on them but I believe that should be done shortly after birth and to be honest I would rather band them. However, banding usually can't be done on a buck that is 4 or 5 months old - so that makes the knife the only solution.


----------



## mill-valley (Feb 22, 2008)

I use the knife only on kids less than a month old, preferably closer to 7-10 days. Any older and it's too hard on them. You can use the Burdizzo on any age. Yes it is still hard on them but less risk. 

I hate banding, I think it's a good way to start an infection, and it takes way too long. Cutting with a scalpel will be healed up by the time the scrotum dries up with banding...not to mention how long it takes for the withered up scrotum to fall off. I would much rather use the surgical method on a 7 day old kid then a band. As long as you are using a clean sharp knife/scalpel and keep everything clean...the chance of infection is low.
That said....banding works for many people and it's definitely easier and less traumatic on the human.

And just for the record...the ones I've done have been pets, and they are all still around and doing fine 2, 3, and 4 years later. I think urinary calculi has more to do with diet than the size of the urethra.


----------



## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

I certainly wouldn't have him put to sleep to do this for gosh sakes just doing that in itself is harmful for a goat they don't handle anthestics well at all you can band this little guy at 8wks old


----------



## Katarina (Oct 25, 2007)

also much of what i have read indicates that feeding is as much to blame (if not more) than anything else in UC.

LeeAnne posting under Katie's ID from the hospital...)


----------



## Melissa (Oct 27, 2007)

I do mine anywhere between 2 days and 3 weeks. and the buckling really dosen't need to be put under for this. 

-Melissa


----------



## judyvansmith (Apr 2, 2008)

Thanks for your help. I am not going to do it myself, but you have given me lots to talk over with my Vet !
I do think I will stick with 8 weeks of age.


----------



## Twillingate Farm (Oct 26, 2007)

I can't imagine that a bag of bands and the appliance costs as much as one vet visit! I've used the bands on my dogs, cats, cows and goats over the years without any ill effects on any of them. (I suppose that's a matter of opinion depending upon whether your'e the bander or the bandee.)


----------



## judyvansmith (Apr 2, 2008)

This little guy is going to be a pet. I know banding is used by many folks on farms but I do want this to be as painless as it can be. Banding has to cause pain for quite some time. I don't want to do that to him.
You are quite right about the cost but for me the lesser amount of trauma to my little guy is what is important.
Years ago I bought a little goat that had been banded and it took a long time to do the job, every time I looked at him it caused me pain...yes I know I am a "softie". Thanks,


----------



## Guest (Apr 9, 2008)

When I heard that you plan to put him under for the proceedure I cringed. I have only heard bad things about goats being put to sleep....including sudden death. Yicks! I sure hope that vet knows what he is doing. Take care. Hope it works out okay for you. 

-Kim


----------



## LMonty (Oct 25, 2007)

Banding has to cause pain for quite some time. 
**************************************


Just so you feel better- no, it doesnt.  Correctly banded kids cant feel pain, for more than a few minutes, because the banding process itself prevents it. 

Within a very short time, the loss of blood stops the nerves from transmitting pain. Ever have your foot fall asleep? so that it gets real numb? That is because the blood supply was interrupted, and the nerves were cut off from transmitting impulses to the brain where we feel pain. The tingles and discomfort you feel is when the is getting back in and the nerves start transmitting again. It can literally take only a few minutes for complete anesthesia of the cut off part to occur. 

IME, most banded kids are up and running around and act like nothing has happened, and the few that do react seem a bit ouchy for a few hours at the most. Not trying to change your mind, i respect that you'll do what you feel is right-but I thought you'd want to understand the reason why few folks here would accept the considerable anesthesia risk to the animal for banding. Not to mention the expense that goes with it.


----------



## kidsngarden (Oct 28, 2007)

judyvansmith said:


> This little guy is going to be a pet. I know banding is used by many folks on farms but I do want this to be as painless as it can be. Banding has to cause pain for quite some time. I don't want to do that to him.
> You are quite right about the cost but for me the lesser amount of trauma to my little guy is what is important.
> Years ago I bought a little goat that had been banded and it took a long time to do the job, every time I looked at him it caused me pain...yes I know I am a "softie". Thanks,


We banded our bucklings at about 4 weeks last year. This year I will band them at disbudding if they aren't all sold by then. (no more than 7-10 days I guess) Really the banding procedure would be so much less traumatic for your little guy than anesthesia. It takes all of two minutes and mine only cried cause they were being held down. for a couple of hours they kept looking down there like "Hey man, my nuts are asleep" but then they forgot about it.

So you're going to take that little bucking for a ride to the vets (traumatic). Wait in the waiting area while he wonders what the heck is going on (traumatic). Then he'll have all these people he doesn't even know poke at him (traumatic). Then some needles...and overnight stay waking up in strange place....Do ya' get the picture??? Not to mention the horror stories about goats and anesthesia....

The truth of it is it is more traumatic for us than them I think. We feel so bad for causing that little bit of pain. I'll do my first disbuddings this year - and I'm not looking forward to it! But I think the pain of disbudding has to be far worse than that of banding.


----------



## mill-valley (Feb 22, 2008)

> I've used the bands on my dogs, cats, cows and goats over the years without any ill effects on any of them.


I would never try to band a dog or cat. Reason being they can reach around and lick and lick at the site and will almost always get infected. Working in a vet clinic I have seen the after product of using bands on dogs and cats and I would NEVER recommend it. Look for a low-cost spay and neuter program or call up the humane society if you can't afford the surgery...but please don't band them.

Goats and cows I can understand, I've done it and seen it done, just not my favorite way to do it.


----------



## Becky-DixieDoesAlpines (Oct 26, 2007)

judyvansmith said:


> This little guy is going to be a pet. I know banding is used by many folks on farms but I do want this to be as painless as it can be. Banding has to cause pain for quite some time. I don't want to do that to him.
> You are quite right about the cost but for me the lesser amount of trauma to my little guy is what is important.
> Years ago I bought a little goat that had been banded and it took a long time to do the job, every time I looked at him it caused me pain...yes I know I am a "softie". Thanks,


Banding causes just a few minutes of discomfort. The vet visit and anestesia will be far more stressful and far riskier of a procedure.
Banding should be done as young as possible.
Becky


----------



## Aja-Sammati (Oct 26, 2007)

To help you feel better about the anesthesia  My back up vet has raised dairy goats for years...she knocks out every single baby she disbuds. She hasn't had problems with them dying from it. We did a dehorning clinic last year- dehorned 20+ goats in one day. Not a single one had a problem with the anesthesia. They did have trauma, though :lol It was a bloody, nasty job!

I had a doeling dehorned at the vet 4 years ago- she had to go back, so she was under twice in 4 weeks.

And if your goat is like some of mine- he won't think a ride to the vet is traumatic, he may think it is a special treat with people to admire him at the destination.

With all that said- I band at 4 weeks. If they go until older I use a Calicrate on them, but I don't like it. Good luck with your wether!


----------

