# Bio Tracking CAE Test Results



## BlueHeronFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

I have seen people share results and use the term "border-line positive".
What does that mean?
Is there really "borderline CAE positive" - or would that be like being "border-line pregnant"?
I'm just curious.
We're sending all 17 of ours today. I learned to draw blood this weekend. Not quite as scary as I thought it would be.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

*Re: CAE Testing Question*

GOOD for you!! if I got a borderline then I would be doing all the other tests, to me it is just as you say borderline pg


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: CAE Testing Question*

If you get a "border line, or suspect" (depends on the lab) result, that animal needs to be retested in 45 days. Personally, I would retest at 45 days and again in 3 - 6 months, if I got a suspect test. Sometimes, it can be an error, but sometimes the next test comes back positive.


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## BlueHeronFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: CAE Testing Question*

I don't anticipate anything but negative on my goats - but I wondered what the result meant since I have seen it mentioned.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: CAE Testing Question*

You would think with CAE being an autoimmune disease like HIV. That you are either positive for or negative for HIV...and if you are positive for HIV then on a scale you either have AIDS or you don't yet have AIDS. In goats we never got this info, even though promised with our hundreds of thousands of dollars pumped into this lab.

We now have a sliding scale of zero to positive. Now...if your doe is borderline than isn't she really positive? Wouldn't even being 1 on the scale mean that something reacted to the test so she is just early positive? I would make sure and use a lab for my own testing that will give you the numbers of what your does actually are, not just this made up borderline up to positive reading. Vicki


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## Halo-M Nubians (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: CAE Testing Question*

Can I barge in and ask a question about the Elisa test. I tested some does with biotracking and the results came back with numbers-I was confused at first but High number are what you want..here is what chuck wrote to me

"Hi Mishael - Sorry for any confusion the report may have generated. I'm still in the process of writing an "explanatory" letter on how the test works and what the results may mean. It's different from the pregnancy test in that a high OD number is Positive or "Pregnant" and a low number is negative or "Not Pregnant". In the CAE test, its just the opposite: a high number is Negative. The CAE tests looks for the presence of antibodies in the serum against the CAE virus. The cutoff is a calculated value which signifies a 35% inhibition of binding of any antibody in the control samples. So a high number represents very little inhibition because there are no antibodies in the serum to compete for binding of the test antibody in the assay."

35%??? huh? So all my does were "Negative" but now I'm wondering how high is really ideal? My sisters doeling came back with a "negative-marginal" and her number was a few 10ths over the cut-off..This is all so confusing!!!


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: CAE Testing Question*

The CAE tests looks for the presence of antibodies in the serum against the CAE virus.
.........................................

Perhaps you could ask him to send you a copy when he gets the paper written on this test. Also because where is your does antibody coming from to react to the test if she has never had CAE before, or drank positive colostrum to build antibody? Vicki


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## BlueHeronFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: CAE Testing Question*

I sent our blood to WADDL -- what are they going to come back with? Numbers or words?


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2008)

*Re: CAE Testing Question*

Words - Negative, Positive, Suspect.

Sara


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## Halo-M Nubians (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: CAE Testing Question*



> So a high number represents very little inhibition because there are no antibodies in the serum to compete for binding of the test antibody in the assay."


And my question is -is there a point at which a number means NO inhibition and you can know there aren't ANY antibodies?? Not sure, I'll have to ask him. Its interesting...this is the same test WSU runs-I've always had Neg results from them. Ignorance is bliss..now I'm wondering all kinds of things! It seems a bit ambiguous to me :?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: CAE Testing Question*

this is the same test WSU runs-
....................

No it's not. And hence the rub (well the rub me the wrong way rub 

All Elissa tests performed in the world are purchased from France. For HIV, for CAE for OPP etc etc...WSU has their own, that is better, runs faster and jumps higher. BUT..you can't double check it because theirs is better, runs faster and jumps higher. So unless they purchased the test from WSU it is not the 'same' test  Vicki


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## Halo-M Nubians (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: CAE Testing Question*

Oh, okay. Thanks, didn't know that!


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## haeema (Jan 18, 2008)

*Re: CAE Testing Question*

Just letting you know that reading all of these posts helps a novice very much!


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## Halo-M Nubians (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: CAE Testing Question*

Okay, well can I just say a big thank you to Chuck at bioTracking. He has answered two emails to me today and neither were short answers. He has encouraged me to keep asking so he can go over all this himself as well-Too cool! Anyway, I feel very much enlightened! Here is the relevant part of the answer-

"The assay uses purified virus protein to "capture" any antibody in the serum. Unfortunately, antibodies are a protein, by nature proteins are sticky (ever get dried egg white or milk on your fingers??) and they like to "hang out" with other proteins and literally stick together. Serum is loaded with all different types of proteins, and unfortunately, you can't prevent some serum proteins that are totally UNrelated to CAE from wanting to stick to the virus. We call this "non-specific interactions". Due to the high sensitivity of the test, some of these "non-specific interaction" are picked up in the assay and look sort of positive. We use control samples to measure a "true" positive and negative response, then do a set of calculations to determine a cut-off value, which is designed to account for these non-specific protein interactions."

Sooo Interesting!


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## MayLOC (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: CAE Testing Question*

Ok, so WADDL reports with Neg./Suspect/Positive. They don't give you a breakdown of numbers? So is Neg. 0 or is it 0-24, then suspect 24-49 and positive >49??? Of course those are just my made up numbers. I am just wondering, as there could be big differences.

How about PanAm? I have gotten word break-downs from them. But they tell you numbers, if you ask them?? I believe I had understood that those that test with them were getting actual number breakdowns with the results, but I have always gotten Neg./Borderline/Positive word breakdowns. Do I just have to request the number breakdown also?

I got the number breakdown and the legend to understand it from Bio with my results last friday. I was kind of thinking along the lines of 0=neg. and 1 and above are positive, but it isn't really like that.

hmmm. comments on other labs??


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## BlueHeronFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: CAE Testing Question*

Just to complicate things further - Can a goat who was fed properly heat treated milk (from a positive dam) show up as "borderline" - in that the treated milk may be acting like a killed virus vaccine?

I am just trying to get my head around this - and when the biotracking guy says there may be one antibody but it shows up like more - I am still trying to figure out where that antibody came from. Is it possible it could come from killed virus?


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## BlueHeronFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: CAE Testing Question*

Oh-- I just re-read Chuck's statement again, and he is saying the proteins are sticking to the virus introduced in the testing, isn't he? Not that there were any CAE antibody proteins already in the blood. Hm. Well - my question is still something I am thinking about.


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## Halo-M Nubians (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: CAE Testing Question*

Yes, pasteurized milk can cause a response, I believe. Why it is suggested to wait until after 6 months of age if that is a factor. What he is saying is that antibodies that are NOT cae antibodies will stick to the CAE protein. Also, he gave 1.2-1.4 as being a probable "Zero" response-in a perfect world without these other antibodies. That made me feel good about my girls numbers!


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## MayLOC (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: CAE Testing Question*

my report (last Friday )from bio on the CAE section reported : *<0.629 =POSITIVE
>0.629 =NEGATIVE*


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## Halo-M Nubians (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: CAE Testing Question*

Okay, that is really weird! Mine was done Feb 2nd and said this:

Positive Cutoff Negative

OD < 0.83 0.830 OD > 0.83

Maybe I'm not understanding it...could they be running a "control" on each test, so the numbers would be different?


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## MayLOC (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: CAE Testing Question*

hmmm...

But if they were running a "control on each test, so the numbers would be different" then wouldn't the legend of numbers for each also be different? did that make sense? :?


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: CAE Testing Question*

I haven't used BioTracking for a CAE test, but here is what Chuck emailed to me about the numbers they use.
"The controls are used to determine the inhibition of antibody binding, and these values are used to calculate a cutoff value (usually between .06 and .08). If the sample OD (Optical Density) is lower than the cutoff, the animal is scored positive for CAE (a high antibody titer). If the sample OD is higher than the cutoff, the animal is scored negative for CAE (a low antibody titer)."


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## Halo-M Nubians (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: CAE Testing Question*

Okay, lets see if I can explain this. They run the tests on a plate, with a lot of individual wells, Chuck said they can do about 88 tests per plate and here is the rest:

"We try to keep things as consistent as possible, but there will always be some difference in how well the antibody or protein binds to the wells when we manufacture the plates, how efficiently the plates are washed to remove contaminants and chemicals used in the manufacturing process and in the assay itself, and even differences in the plastic of which the plate is made. So one plate is going to be a bit different from another, even if I coat them with the same batch of protein or antibody on the same day using the same lot number of plastic plates. All of this will affect how the assay runs, which is reflected in the OD's and as a result, the cutoff values. This is why it is hard to compare the OD's from one assay with those of another assay a day or a week later. In fact, if I ran the same sample in duplicate or triplicate on the same plate, the OD's will be a bit different. This is due also to the slight inaccuracies in the lab procedures involved in making the assay plates and running the assays. This is normal, and we do routine quality control tests to make sure that these "differences" are statistically insignificant, or at least within acceptable limits of deviation."


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## MiddleRiver (Oct 30, 2007)

*Re: CAE Testing Question*

This must be the thread i'm looking for :+)

From what i gather, since all my girls are marked as Negative, but yet a couple have 5 or 7 under % Inhibition , and it says in the % Inhibition key - % Inhibition > 40 ( Positive ),
% Inhibition 30 to 40 ( Marginal ) and % Inhibition < 30 ( negative ). So IF i have this correct ( PLEASE TELL ME if i don't ), that lower then 30 is neg. because chances are the low numbers are due to proteins sticking to the virus introduced to look for antibodies, are just other proteins NOT related to CAE antibodies/proteins - just a few of the other sticky ones floating around in there ????

Do i understand this correctly ?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: CAE Testing Question*

OK when we finish this thread we will add it to goatkeeping101. Mods...retitle it reading biotracking test results, please...Thanks, vicki


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