# CAE Test Numbers



## nlhayesp (Apr 19, 2012)

My husband and I sent in 15 blood samples to Biotracking. But with the holiday tomorrow, we will have to wait until next week for the results. Here's my question the test results: Biotracking has three categories, positive, marginal, and negative. What if a doe is "marginal" or has a number other than 0.0 in the % Inhibition? Do you cull a marginal doe or one that is 15%? You breeders that say you are negative for CAE, are your numbers 0, or are they just less than 30? I realize that this may open a can of worms, and the only people who reply are those with 0, but if anyone wants to send me a personal message to avoid your reputation being sullied, I would appreciate it. CAE is such a delicate topic, as is CL, on this forum that some might hesitate to post an answer.


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## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

Bio-tracking will label them negative, suspect and positive and will give you the numbers. Do not expect all of your animals to be 0. Some might be 0 but at least some of your numbers will vary from 1-29 for negative animals. Those suspect will range from 30-39. Anything greater than 40 is positive for CAE. Don't cull suspect animals but rather wait a month or two and re-test. 

The numbers will vary from year to year. Our oldest doe Magnolia is 12 years of age. Her most recent test was 6.0 while her test back in Feb of 2012 was 9.0. 

Good luck with your test results!


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## Qadosh Adamah Lamanchas (Nov 2, 2012)

My negative ones ranged from 2 to 8. They are still solidly negative. They have been "around" positive goats because we don't have a closed herd,so that is likely why they register any numbers at all. If I had any around 30 or 40, I'd re-test and consider culling.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Go up to the top of the page and read the Ask Biotracking thread....read Chuck's responses to questions like this, then if you don't feel like you have a handle on it, ask another question.

You should have no animals in borderline, none. If you do retest, it is either an animal converting or someone who is having a reaction to a vaccine or who is ill. I have tested all my vaccination series through biotracking, including running tests after Bo-se when another breeder was telling Chuck the reason her does were positive with him was because they got their Bo-se shots, not true. I have also pulled blood on does due in a day, and in actual labor, the day after they kidded also. The only time we pulled a doe from her securely negative spot into borderline was with the Pasteurella vaccine. She subsequently tested low negative again, about a week later.

If you are sure of the management of where you purchased from or yours, than run PCR (info in goatkeeping 101).

I am CAE negative, and no, few of my goats are 0. 0 is meaningless. It is no better or worse than an 11 

It is important not to get one CAE test on your herd and base your management on it. You want to use CAE prevention, then when you are milking does you have raised on prevention, colostrum you heat treated and milk you pasteurized, kids you saw born and know they did not nurse mom, CAE negative tests on her, then set management that may include feeding raw colostrum or milk or letting kids nurse. The only unless, to that protocol, is if you purchased from a long lived herd (like Tim's) that has many years of CAE negative testing and a reputation that goes with it....you will note visiting website how few herds actually have whole herd negative tests.


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

I think too there is variation sometimes in the test. I had two this year that were high negative (not marginal). I sent them immediately back without waiting cause it made me so nervous, and they dropped 10-15 points - so it is by no means that exact that you should quibble over points in the negative range. We do not breed anyone who isn't solidly in the negative range. I run my test prior to breeding because I want to have that test in hand before breeding. After years of testing I may switch to after breeding to get the pregnancy test, but at this point it is more important for me to test before breeding.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

swgoats said:


> I think too there is variation sometimes in the test. I had two this year that were high negative (not marginal). I sent them immediately back without waiting cause it made me so nervous, and they dropped 10-15 points - so it is by no means that exact that you should quibble over points in the negative range. We do not breed anyone who isn't solidly in the negative range. I run my test prior to breeding because I want to have that test in hand before breeding. After years of testing I may switch to after breeding to get the pregnancy test, but at this point it is more important for me to test before breeding.


Angie, I don't understand. Why is it important to you to test before breeding? Breeding isn't going to make a doe positive.

I have some does with 0 and some with higher numbers, but all are negative. I had asked the same question as the OP last year and as Vicki pointed then, as now, negative is negative. And as she explained in this post, Chuck points out that some numbers actually in with a negative number value; he uses 0 as the result as he doesn't want to confuse people.


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

I test before breeding so I am *for sure* that the doe is negative. I don't want to find out after I have bred that the doe is positive. I have no interest in culling a bred doe, and I won't have a lactating positive on my property. I just like to be able to say with a clear conscious that we only breed test negative does. I can't claim years of negative tests, but I can claim that.


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

0 is no different than 9 or 14 or 21. All negative. Nothing to do with if they've been around an animal with CAE or anything else. It's all in the assay that's used. (Like Vicki said: Read the Biotracking sticky.) Just negative. And none of those numbers have any higher chance to convert than any of the other ones. 
I would retest anything borderline--or within a few points of probably. 
And positive is positive. 52 is no different than 67 or 75 or 89. Positive. Retest if you want, but a vaccine or such isn't going to make them posive. CAE is.
I've had a doe that tested 0 one year, 21 the next and 9 the next. She is perfectly negative :biggrin as are all my goats. Our range this year was from 0 to 14.


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

I had a "borderline" doe once. She had been recently moved to my farm, vaccinated for the first time, etc. Re-test was negative and subsequent tests in later years were all negative. Interestingly, her herdmate that came with her and was subjected to the same treatment, was always negative, so some of it is going to be individual differences.


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## kuecktr (Feb 5, 2012)

I've had goats test high negative and I still treat them as a positive as they can turn positive after or around the age of two. I had one doe test negative 3 times (one of those tests came back high negative and another came back low negative) and a little after her second birthday her test came back just over positive (52%). She stayed positive after that


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Were the tests all ran by the same lab? Which lab Taylor. We just never had this happen except with the old AGID testing.


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## kuecktr (Feb 5, 2012)

All tests were done at biotracking


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

"We just never had this happen except with the old AGID testing." 

I'm not sure I understand what you mean Vicki. Animals convert, right? So they would test negative (whether low or high negative), then for some reason convert and be positive. I don't think Taylor had a false negative...just the doe hadn't converted.

Taylor, is that the only doe that you've had test negative and then positive at 2 yrs old, or others also? Was there any stress factor that would have caused her to convert at that time...2 yr old FF?... moved into main herd?...


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## kuecktr (Feb 5, 2012)

I wish that was the case.. I had her tested again a month after I found she was 52% and got the same result. Nothing had changed in her daily schedule/environment and she seemed to be fine health wise. SSC was low too. This is the only doe I've had that converted so far. I also have a doeling that tested high negative this year and then dropped to a low negative for her retest a month later. I hope she doesn't convert. All of my other goats are VERY negative. Some are even 0.0%. I decided to separate the does that tested high negative. CAE is a pain in the butt!


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Denise I have never had a goat convert. They were either negative and stayed negative or were positive. Other than the one borderline from the pasteurella vaccination recently, I have never even seen a borderline. So although we talk about it, I have not seen it at my farm. Vicki


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## kuecktr (Feb 5, 2012)

CAE is so frustrating.. This doe I have was not born on my place. I bought her with the provided CAE neg. test results from biotracking and then tested her several times myself until the last two tests were positive. It seems like you can't win even with the testing. I hope this is just a weird thing and not something that happens all the time.


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## nlhayesp (Apr 19, 2012)

A few of you mentioned testing high after vaccines. All of my does/bucks that I sent in have had their CDT, case-bac, and pneumonia vaccine in the past month. The vet recommended case-bac as we had a ram die of pneumonia 5 years ago. The necropsy determined it was from CL lesions in his lungs. He was from a CL-free herd, so one of our other animals passed it on to him. Case-bac has prevented CL from rearing its ugly head in all of our herd ever since.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Nancy the doe we had go into borderline was vaccinated and her blood pulled for CAE the next day (she was being sold). After the borderline test the owners on my dime repulled and sent it to not just biotracking.com again but in for a PCR test. I was confident there was not way she was positive, let alone why she was borderline, but she tested negative the next week and the following year etc. It was the first time I realized we could manipulate the titers...we also know that a sick does blood can do the same thing.

We could not manipulate it with CD&T or bo-se, I do not use Case Bac, but the pasturella vaccine does, this story was repeated in another herd. Vicki


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

Ok, I understand. I still don't think that a high negative titer is a sign of impending conversion. The doe I have that tested 0, then 21 last year and 9 this year, is definitely negative. Caught her myself. Anal about heat treating and pasturizing. And she's never had contact with CAE. The only purchased goats she's had contact with that weren't born here are from Bryrpatch and Pruittville--both long time CAE negative tested herds.
I think like you have said many times Vicki: Ask for whole herd negative test results. ON PAPER--not just their word for it. I don't believe that 0 is *very* negative--that would indicate that 20 is *not very* negative. To me--negative is negative, positive is positive.


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