# Has anyone ever seen a goat udder this bad in their life? I rescued her from a bad si



## AlfaOnTheFarm (Mar 14, 2014)

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## mountaingoats12 (Dec 31, 2013)

That doe has some super weak attachments! I wouldn't breed her again, and I'd get her an udder sling so she doesn't step on it and injure herself.


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## LittleBits (Aug 6, 2013)

I have a doe currently that sort of has a "blown out" udder this year, started happening while she was pregnant. I guess carrying quads was a lot of stress, her udder is completely shot on one side. No mastitis or anything, functions perfectly well. I just milk her twice a day, and she will be used a brood doe. 

She certainly has a very large udder! How much does she milk? Can you clip her udder for us to see it better?


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## mountaingoats12 (Dec 31, 2013)

A brood doe is a good idea!


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## AlfaOnTheFarm (Mar 14, 2014)

I will try to get better pics this evening. She milks a gallon a day right now. I don't use her milk except for the animals. I was told if we heat it we could use it but I don't know. I have never had a goat with mastitis before. Her milk isn't clumpy,bloody,stringy or anything strange though. She hasn't actually been tested for mastitis yet. The vet said she may have it.


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

Are you all using "brood doe" in a different sense? Because "brood" means breeding. For example, in horses, a "brood mare" is used only for breeding, not for riding or show. The horse might be untrained (for riding) or have an injury that prevents people from riding it, but can still be used for breeding. Which seems like what you wouldn't want to do with a goat whose udder is a mess (unless you were breeding meat goats and not worried about udders in offspring).


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## janner (Nov 3, 2012)

hsmomof4 said:


> Are you all using "brood doe" in a different sense? Because "brood" means breeding. For example, in horses, a "brood mare" is used only for breeding, not for riding or show. The horse might be untrained (for riding) or have an injury that prevents people from riding it, but can still be used for breeding. Which seems like what you wouldn't want to do with a goat whose udder is a mess (unless you were breeding meat goats and not worried about udders in offspring).


I just had to comment about the udders in meat goats as opposed to goats meant only for meat. There is a growing trend to not breed for good udders in meat goats and instead breed for what the show world is looking to give ribbons for. This is causing all kinds of problems and I have two such problem "show" does. I know of boer breeders that are getting more and more percentage does with milk lines because of this problem. 
Sorry to get off subject, 
janice


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## mountaingoats12 (Dec 31, 2013)

I meant brood as in nurse other baby animals, not for breeding. At least that's how I use the word brood...if you can keep her milking, she could be a "nurse" goat for orphaned babies.


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

I understand what you mean, Janice. What I meant was, if you weren't planning on raising any of her offspring for ANYTHING but meat (ie, no breeding for offspring, ever), in which case, what their udders look or function like wouldn't matter, because they would never get to that point. Which is an entirely different thing than if you have a meat goat breeding program with boers or kikos or something.


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## AlfaOnTheFarm (Mar 14, 2014)

Since she is a sannan I think we are going to breed her once with my Swiss alpine and use her babies for other breeders. She is not registered so we are actually going to let her just live the rest of her life here as a brush goat after she breeds the one time.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

It look like she could use some mineral supplementation. Copper and selenium. then breed her again. She has weak pasterns as well as the poorly attached udder. It could be genetic or a sign that she hasn't had all the nutrients she needs.


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## AlfaOnTheFarm (Mar 14, 2014)

This is what she looks like right now. I am trying my best with her to get her healthy. I give her kids chewable vitamins and the goat food from the co op. The vet said to give her Prohibid in a triple dose for worms and then again in 10 days. She is eating well. I feed her a mix of the goat food and alfalfa pellets. I was also told by a friend to soak her food in her own milk and the. Feed it to her when I milk her again. This way the milk will help her fight off the bacteria if she has any in her. I do t know about that but my friend has some pretty healthy goats and she gives them back their own milk once a month.












































As you can see,one side has more milk than the other side. She is also extremely under weight. She is a good goat. I do have her feet strapped down so she doesn't kick when I milk all of that off of her.

Do any of you know how it can get her to gain weight any better. She was a whole lot worse a week ago with those sunken in sides. I'm thinking to maybe infuse her with tomorrow to dry her off and just not breed her this season. What do you think? My vet told me to keep milking her to get the mastitis out in case she has any traces of it in there.

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## mountaingoats12 (Dec 31, 2013)

She looks VERY underweight, I would dry her up and not breed her this season. Get a fecal done that includes cocci, and worm if she still needs to be. Does she get loose minerals? I would add those to her diet along with calf manna and some beet pulp. 

If you suspect mastitis, you can syringe some of her own milk back to her. Is her udder hot, cold, lumpy? If you infuse her teats I would use tomorrow, it lasts longer and is stronger. Dry her up gradually to prevent strain on her udder. 

She could use a shot of Bose, and a copper bolus...Good luck getting her up to weight!


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## ksalvagno (Jul 8, 2011)

You want to feed her back 30cc of her own milk at a time.

That was great of you to take her in.


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## AlfaOnTheFarm (Mar 14, 2014)

Ok, I will try all of those things. I do give her as much sweet feed as she will eat along with alfalfa pellets. I will try feeding her back her own milk when I milk her this evening. 


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## janner (Nov 3, 2012)

AlfaOnTheFarm said:


> Ok, I will try all of those things. I do give her as much sweet feed as she will eat along with alfalfa pellets. I will try feeding her back her own milk when I milk her this evening.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Dairy Goat Forum


I would be careful and go slow with the sweet feed. Start with a small amount like a 1/4 cup twice a day and increase slowly. I would make sure she has a good quality grass hay always in front of her to help her digest the grain.
janice


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## AlfaOnTheFarm (Mar 14, 2014)

All of the goats get grass hay all day but they rather eat my trees and bushes. We let her out to gaze with the rest of the herd all day in the 3 acre yard. She is doing better. She walked up the ramp to the milk stand yesterday by herself without me having to try to pull and pick her up. My boyfriend made the ramp so she doesn't have to try to jump up there right now and maybe hit the bag on it and hurt herself even more. We trimmed her feet some more last night and they don't have that really gross rotting smell in them either.


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## AlfaOnTheFarm (Mar 14, 2014)

We call her Cheese because she has a cheesy looking smile from her mouth having a bad underbite or something.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Nutrition-wise, giving her straight alfalfa pellets and no sweet feed would be a better choice. Sweet feed gives them calories, but alfalfa gives them calories plus lots of nutrients they need. And of course all the grass hay/browse she can eat.


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## AlfaOnTheFarm (Mar 14, 2014)

She only gets feed when I milk her. It's mixed with alfalfa pellets.


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## rosawoodsii (Mar 10, 2014)

Since you're going to use her as a brush goat, start now. Her udder has no support, and breeding her again just makes it more likely that she'll damage it by stepping on it. If it were my goat, I'd dry her off as quickly as possible.

She prefers trees and bushes because goats are browsers. There are a lot of nutrients in leaves, bark, and forbes that will give her what she needs. 

WRT sweet feed, I agree--don't do it. Many companies add the molasses because they use poor quality grain leavings that livestock wouldn't eat without it. Whole grains are better than any sweet feed. A grass hay/alfalfa mix would be ideal for feed, and all the pasture and browse she can eat. And of course, as someone else suggested, a good mineral supplementation program. 

Poor girl, she's lucky you took her in. I wish you both well.


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## AlfaOnTheFarm (Mar 14, 2014)

Here are some better pics of Cheese. Look at that face. That's how she got her name. She has a cheesy grin all the time.


























Look though. I got her udder way off the ground now. She is not dragging it anymore. Now to get her to gain the weight.

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## Bella Star (Oct 27, 2007)

The Alfalfa pellets help her to produce MORE milk .....and I never feed sweet feed in summer. I would start slow on all changes of feeding to her diet . For dry or drying up does I would just feed a good quality hay or grass pasture and only feed pellet feed 1x a day with a 13-14% feed ad 3 parts with added 1 part oats and 1/4 part sun flower seeds . Good luck and she looks to be a great milker as everything she is eating is making milk,looks like. Check her milk for mastitis and if she is clear then ,massage her and start leaving some of her milk in her udder as she will slowly stop producing so much milk and when she slacks off her production skip a milking and keep milking less milk out and then just milk to release the pressure on her udder and finally give her tomorrow in her teats and she should be good and near dry .
Poor girl but she's got a good mommy now that will take care of her  .


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## rosawoodsii (Mar 10, 2014)

AlfaOnTheFarm said:


> Look though. I got her udder way off the ground now. She is not dragging it anymore. Now to get her to gain the weight.


Not dragging on the ground, but the teats should not drop below hock level. One thing that could help if you continue to milk her is an udder bra. A friend of mine made one for her doe (so the kids couldn't nurse), but it would definitely support the weight of the udder.


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## AlfaOnTheFarm (Mar 14, 2014)

What if I would just quit milking her all together? Would she just dry off by herself. I was only still milking her for milk for bottle babies because I have an Alpine due to kid any day now. I'm making them bottle babies because they are more tame and friendlier. I have around 10 gallons of frozen milk for babies right now. I have 2 other goats I milk once a day. One Nubian and a sannan. I have another little mixed breed goat kidding next month. She's a first timer. I just hope all goes well with the babies and we don't have any issues.


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## mountaingoats12 (Dec 31, 2013)

I would go slow with drying her off, since she's milking so much. Going cold turkey will result in mastitis and stretched ligaments, which will make the situation worse. I know it's more work, but dry her off slowly for her comfort  .

Contrary to what others said, I think she needs alfalfa whether milking or not. She needs the protein and calcium to make up for what she lost while milking, along with all the vitamins it contains. Maybe you can add the alfalfa pellets once she's dry, so it doesn't encourage more milk. And I would give her some sweet feed, when they're severely thin like that they need those extra carbs and sugars. Just start slow, because too much molasses can cause rumen upset and polio. Do a cup a day to start, then possibly two cups along with another grain...


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## AlfaOnTheFarm (Mar 14, 2014)

The vet told me to feed her as much as she will eat of whatever she likes. He also said 3 tums a day with calcium is good for her. He told me I could give her baby oatmeal cereal with similac formula 2 times a day. I give her sweet feed mixed with a handful of alfalfa once a day when I milk some of that off of her. I also crush chewable kids vitamins and mix it in her food. She gets all the grasses and tree leaves she wants all day when she is browsing the field and yard.


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## rosawoodsii (Mar 10, 2014)

No, cold turkey is definitely not the way to go. I'd just milk her each day as usual, but not take all the milk. Every 4th or 5th day empty her. It'll take 3 or 4 weeks to dry her off, but it'll be safer that way.


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## mountaingoats12 (Dec 31, 2013)

Since she's getting so much rich food, leave baking soda out in a bowl for her. She will eat what she needs and it'll prevent bloat and acidosis. You should also give her some probios daily, to keep her rumen on track.


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## AlfaOnTheFarm (Mar 14, 2014)

I have her down to 2 cups a day. She stated the first night at a gallon. That was almost a month ago. I only give her feed when she gets milked. She grazes the rest of the day. She gets everything else I have listed in previous posts when she will take it.


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## mountaingoats12 (Dec 31, 2013)

Good job on drying her off  . She should be gaining weight more quickly now....


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## AlfaOnTheFarm (Mar 14, 2014)

Thank you. She did really well last night getting on the stand by herself. She licked my nose several times when I was milking her.


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## AlfaOnTheFarm (Mar 14, 2014)

We had to have Cheese put down last Thursday because her tests came back CAE positive and we didn't want to take a chance that the 4 new babies that have been born over the past week would end up getting it from her if they even accidently would grab onto a teat. I was so sad but it had to be done for the safety of my herd. I am having 2 others that came from the same place tested and waiting for the results because Missy is one of them and may be pregnant is what my vet says after he was here and bounced her belly. If she is CAE we are gonna take the babies as soon as they are born.


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## mountaingoats12 (Dec 31, 2013)

I'm sorry  . But you did the right thing....


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## cvalley (Apr 15, 2009)

So sorry  Tough to do but needed.


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## AlfaOnTheFarm (Mar 14, 2014)

I do wish I would have gotten a pic of her licking me in the face when I milked her. Oh well, I have the other pics of her. It is so sad because she was the best goat I had here. She was so easy to milk on the stand and was well behaved.


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## rosawoodsii (Mar 10, 2014)

mountaingoats12 said:


> I'm sorry  . But you did the right thing....


I couldn't disagree more.

I've never had a bottle kid try to suckleI have two CAE positive does and I pull their kids and bottle raise them on heat treated milk. The chances of a doe that's not nursing her own kid, letting another one suckle, are very low. In fact, only the rare doe that wants to raise everyone else's kid would be a problem, and in that case separation is in order.

CAE is not the dread disease people think it is. 90% of the tested herd in the U.S. have at least one CAE+ animal; and of those, only 10% EVER show symptoms. Some CAE+ does who suckle their kids seem to confer immunity on them. That could be a natural immunity making its way into the herds. Just as most diseases such as measles, mumps, etc., peaked and then dropped drastically BEFORE vaccines came on the scene, CAE may very well have a life cycle that is spiraling down. I've talked to breeders who have said it was much more virulent 20 years ago.

You made the decision, and it's done, but I would urge people to rethink the whole CAE issue. Oh, and btw, milk from CAE+ does has been shown to confer immunity to HIV.

.


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## mountaingoats12 (Dec 31, 2013)

I respect your opinion, but was there any logical point in keeping her anyways? She was very thin and sickly (possibly from CAE), and there is no cure for the disease. If you really love the animal then yes by all means, keep them and practice cae control. But I'm guessing this doe just wasn't worth the trouble. Sometimes it's easier to let the animal go and move on, no more worries...

Not with ALL Cae goats of course, many are worth keeping regardless of this disease. But in this case it may have been in the owner's best interest. Btw, I had a bottle kid (since birth) take a suck off an unrelated doe now and then. One drop is all it takes...or what if the doe gets an open wound, and her blood ends up on a kid's face? You just never know, I personally would've done the same thing.


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## AlfaOnTheFarm (Mar 14, 2014)

I just got the test results back from another Doe that came from the same person Cheese came from and she is CAE positive also. I can't go through putting Missy down. Missy shows no signs of CAE and she refuses to let any babies near her. She may also be pregnant. My vet said he is not 100% sure but he felt bumps when he bounced her belly. 

As far as Cheese,she was never gonna get better and was an expense to us. I couldn't use her milk for babies but we did drink it ourselves. Cheese was not gaining any weight back and the more I tried to dry her off the more milk she made. Yes I am so depressed and sad about Cheese but she was not safe for my herd. I have goats and sheep. I didn't want any of them getting CAE from her or her getting accidently bred and us not knowing if she kids until it's to late and her blood be everywhere in the goat pen or a baby grabbing a teat and sucking on her. I hated to have her put down because I was so close to her but it had to be done. 

I will never get another goat from this girl again in my life. I am so depressed and down because of this mess I am dealing with. You know, whether to put them down or not. My whole herd may be infected right now just because of one goat. My opinion is if they are not sick than don't kill them off. Cheese was way to far gone even with everything I was doing to try to get her healthy. Missy is not sick. She does have a cough sometimes but nothing horrible.

I have 6 more goats that have to be tested. What is the likely hood a buck will pass CAE to his offspring? I have one buck that is 8 months old and was gotten for a breeder and we gave him Missy's milk when the powdered formula made him sick. We did not know Missy had CAE at that time.


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## rosawoodsii (Mar 10, 2014)

A sick goat is a whole different story from a healthy goat that tests positive. No matter what the illness, it's hard to lose a goat.

I Just got test results back from the lab on my herd, and except for the two does that have always tested positive, the whole herd is negative. Two of those does, btw, were bred to a positive buck. The likelihood of CAE being passed by breeding is almost non-existent. However, they should be hand-bred, not run with the buck.

As I said before, I run my does together, separate kids from the positive does at birth, keep the does separate until they're through cleaning out, bottle feed the kids with heat-treated goat milk or raw cow milk, and I still have a clean herd except for the original two.

One thing that was very gratifying to me is to see that a yearling polled doe from the same breeder that I got those original two from is negative. Whew! I knew I was taking a chance with her when I got her at 2 weeks old, but I treated everyone with a homeopathic CAE nosode and MMS in the water, so I don't know if that helped or not. 

Don't despair over your positive doe. Chances are good she will be fine. It's hard to see them mourn after they kid, but it does keep the kids clean.

Another thing to help boost your morale--a large breeder about 2 hours from me just loves one of my positive does, a PB Saanen. She has a clean herd and wants a doeling from her, and she knows how I raise my goats and that I run them together.


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## AlfaOnTheFarm (Mar 14, 2014)

Important question? Since this is 2 does I've had to be positive, I froze most of the milk I got from them for a just in case thing. Can I still pasteurize the milk after it's been frozen? I am not giving any of the 4 babies any of the milk raw from those positive goats. They get the milk from Dolly who isn't positive for anything. We do still use Missy's milk raw and I use it to cook with but that is human consumption and different. 

I have around 25 gallons of frozen milk from Missy and Cheese and need to do something with it so that is why I wonder if I can still pasteurize it for milk for the babies or cheese,soaps,something???




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## rosawoodsii (Mar 10, 2014)

I think heat-treating previously frozen milk is iffy at best. I always heat treat before freezing, because sometimes, especially with colostrum, the milk separates and curdles more easily.

I use frozen milk (and colostrum) for cooking, though, with good success, and you should be able to make soap with it, no problem. If it doesn't separate, you can also use it for cheese.


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## AlfaOnTheFarm (Mar 14, 2014)

Hey, rosa, I thawed out a 64 oz container and shook it real well. It didn't seaport at all. I'm gonna heat treat it and see what happens. My on non CAE doe can not put out enough milk for 4 babies so I need to do something. I think everything will be ok with this. 
I do hate the girl that put CAE into my herd. None of my goats had it until I got the 2 from her. 


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## lovinglife (Mar 19, 2013)

You can still pasturize it, make sure you get it hot enough. You wont over cook it as long as you are not doing colostrum. Get it to 165 - 175, should make it safe.


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## AlfaOnTheFarm (Mar 14, 2014)

I use a candy thermometer and heat it to 180. Then hold it at that temp for a minute and dunk the pan into ice water til it chills down to around 100 and I stick it in the freezer til it's cold but not frozen.


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