# Ice chest lambars



## Tracy in Idaho (Oct 26, 2007)

if you haven't seen them, here is one on the CTTF auction -
http://www.cometothefarm.com/cgi-bin/auction.cgi?category=catn_subng&item=1325913184

Anyone on here used these with success? Incredibly huge growthy kids? :biggrin Tell me about it, please!


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

Wow, looks really cool! (no pun intended)


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Oh wow love the photo tribute. How nice.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

I want the panels that their kid pens are built out of! I'm sure they are super expensive though!


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## Tracy in Idaho (Oct 26, 2007)

Found this old Oregon St study on lambs - cold feeding versus warm - interesting!
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/eoarc/sites/default/files/publication/235.pdf

So, contemplating -- what if you fed a warm lambar in the morning (so as to mix their Deccox M in) and then offered cold milk the rest of the day.....would you get the best of both worlds?

Hmmm


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I want to know where she is getting black lambar nipples!!!! I have seen several versions of this same thing....only 3/4 inch holes are cut into the ice chest, the lambar nipples are on a board/another polystyrene that attaches on the kids side of the wall, the tubes go through the kids wall and into the side of the ice chest. The same idea as the new nipples and guards that caprine (dang I think it's caprine) sells, the gal on FB has it up being used. I have seen the side of the inside area of the icechest cut out, so the lambar nipples only go through the 5/8ths inch hole on the outside, so the nipples are not super short going through both walls of the icechest, this one looks like it is flush with the inside, which would make for super short nipples on the outside...and using several you could also do like we do with lambars, clean ones in, dirty ones being washed when you put the clean ones in.

Anyone else seen these in person with other ideas? Vicki


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## cheesemoose (Jun 23, 2010)

http://www.enasco.com/product/C30740N


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## IndyGardenGal (Jun 11, 2009)

Vicki McGaugh Tx Nubians said:


> I want to know where she is getting black lambar nipples!!!! I have seen several versions of this same thing....only 3/4 inch holes are cut into the ice chest, the lambar nipples are on a board/another polystyrene that attaches on the kids side of the wall, the tubes go through the kids wall and into the side of the ice chest. The same idea as the new nipples and guards that caprine (dang I think it's caprine) sells, the gal on FB has it up being used. I have seen the side of the inside area of the icechest cut out, so the lambar nipples only go through the 5/8ths inch hole on the outside, so the nipples are not super short going through both walls of the icechest, this one looks like it is flush with the inside, which would make for super short nipples on the outside...and using several you could also do like we do with lambars, clean ones in, dirty ones being washed when you put the clean ones in.
> 
> Anyone else seen these in person with other ideas? Vicki


Here are black lambar nipples.
http://cfisupply.com/index.php?main...ucts_id=5582&zenid=fvd69faf717fmbki4p1lfnnqo0


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Thanks!!!! Vicki


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

I've seen black ones at TSC, but they were bigger than the grey ones.


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

What is so special about the black nipples? I have grey ones, they seem to be working just fine. Just wondering! And has anybody fed cold milk? I never have, I either feed warm milk or warm milk replacer, and although this cooler-system looks incredibly handy, it scares me a bit to feed cold milk.


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## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

I feed cold milk. When its cold, I dont but when it's warm and time for the shows I do feed cold milk since I can't heat the milk at the shows and I keep my kids on milk until they are 5+ months old to....I never had a problem switching them to cold milk I just switch them gradually.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

There are lots who feed cold milk right after colostrum bottles. Tamara, hopefully she will chime in, had her full lambars in a fridge, took them out and left them with the kids...a doeling I purchased from her...big healthy robust, and it makes sense because with cold milk they drink a little here and a little there, unlike the lambars I do, which they drink until they are bloated and drooling and then wait hours for the next refill.

The CFI supply that was linked on this thread has the real black lambar nipples, you can see on the other link the difference, no real collar and the plug to X or cut on the end. Black lambar nipples are indestructable, I haven't found them in years to buy since the grey ones came out and Jeffers started carrying them....but although I have to throw away grey nipples yearly, they crack and peel and kids shred them when they are older, I still have a handful of black nipples that have to be over 10 years old, at least. They simply are a better rubber, I think the grey ones have more silicone in them that makes them less durable. Vicki


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## tlcnubians (Jan 21, 2011)

We feed cold milk free choice in our lamb bars, have done so for years. The kids do great on it. But we do live in south-central Texas where winter temps are usually in the 40s-60s. When it warms up outside, we keep the milk cool by putting frozen water bottles in the lamb bar. The kids are switched over from bottles to the lamb bar once they're steady on their feet and nursing well, usually at 2-3 days of age. Caroline


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## Tracy in Idaho (Oct 26, 2007)

Has anyone actually ordered from CFI and gotten the black ones? I know some of my catalogs have the black ones pictured, but when you ask they are really the grey. Like Vicki, I have black ones that are OLD OLD OLD and still in commission. I finally culled out about a half dozen this year and just about cried to see them go, LOL.

I don't think I like the idea of cold milk all the time in our super COLD weather.....but I may play with the idea of one warm lambar for the Deccox and then perhaps cold supplied the rest of the day? Okay, gonna have to cannibalize an ice chest tomorrow....


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

You probably won't even need the cooler part until way into summer when it starts to be warm finally, since you wouldn't need the insulation to keep it cool inside. I bet even on the hottest days, you could just pop some ice packs into a regular bucket lambar to keep the milk cold. Or is this a better way to free-choice the milk because then it's on the other side of a fence to keep them from knocking it over or something?


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## Tracy in Idaho (Oct 26, 2007)

Yeah, this way they can't jump on it and knock it about.


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## cindy (Sep 16, 2008)

I'm not sure how to insert the link, but it looks like Sydell has the black nipples. I haven't called them, but I'm going to because those black nipples last longer and are a little softer than the grey ones.

http://www.sydell.com/products.asp?id=39&title=Goat and Sheep Supplies


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

http://www.enasco.com/Search?q=lambar&x=13&y=12


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

For those who lambar feed- does everyone feed kids 2x per day?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I start with 4 and then move to 3 when the kids are about 5 to 6 weeks old. Which pushes them to start eating their grain, then 2 at 8 weeks or so, they are ruminating well so we start their alfalfa hay (or alfalfa pellets and grass hay). I have two 5 week old bucks who are getting lambars twice a day, I just fill it and switch it out with a clean one....they are fat as ticks and already eating their grain....now we have seen some diarrhea feeding like this, way to much milk, plus it's warm when they start and I think drinking the rest of the lambar cold is doing this, since their fecals are clean. Their sister left today and 2nd buckling is staying until the one I am keeping has a new pen mate from the March kiddings, so it will be interesting to see these two grow out without prevention, just fecaling. I had to trap them out of the barn afternoons when sister got her extra lambar so she could be corid(ed). I have to do something to lessen chores and this is my attempt at it  Vicki


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## Tracy in Idaho (Oct 26, 2007)

I start with 4x a day too, then it quickly becomes 3x a day, and then as soon as they move out of the "baby shop" it is 2x a day. They are offered all they will eat from day 1 -- you have to have does that really milk to be able to pull that off though -- or just a few kids.
I don't grain kids, but they are offered hay from the first few days. It's not unusual for me to see a 2-3 week old chewing cud.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Tracy- You don't feed grain to the babies at all? Can I buy some hay from you next year? Lol. I'm guessing you have it all contracted out every year, yes?


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## Tracy in Idaho (Oct 26, 2007)

No Nancy, I have never grained kids. Just not necessary for me - but the other part of that is that I feed a LOT of milk. 

Yes, our hay goes to a broker unless you can take about 500 tons ;-) I have to beg for mine to get baled in small bales (and quite honestly it is a pain in the rear because we have to hire a small baler and stacker) The bulk of ours is put up in one ton squares.


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## Ziggy (Nov 13, 2009)

I have been wanting to try the cold feeding method for 2 years. I even bought the nipples and tubing last year but never got it done. I guess if I don't win the auction I will just have to got get the right size drill bit and find a few old coolers at the thrift store.


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## Qvrfullmidwife (Oct 25, 2007)

What an awesome idea!


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## Aja-Sammati (Oct 26, 2007)

I start mine at 4 times a day & free feed hay, they are usually eating plenty of hay like Tracy's by the time they are 2-3 weeks old. We take out a fresh lambar 3 times a day with ice packs, so they are pretty much free feed on the buckets & alfalfa hay. I am going to try the enasco nipples this year in one lambar, they look like they are longer and will hold in the buckets fine...I wish I had never traded my last black nipples to Vicki years ago- I have gone through 30+ gray ones per year since!


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I remember that  Vicki


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## 2Sticks (Dec 13, 2007)

After the first week I slowly move the kids over to cold milk. I put a frozen gallon of milk in the lambar and them pour a gallon of pasturized milk in the bucket. I use the flat sided buckets so I can strap them on the outside of the fence, that way no dirty little hoofs on the lid and it doesn't get knocked off. As the milk level in the lambar goes down and the frozen gallon thaws I dump the now thawed gallon into the lambar and place another frozen gallon in. Of course I live in the South and don't start kidding until the end of Feb so by then we have decent temps. It has worked well for me, and the kids can nurse whenever they want. The kids usually start nibbling on food at about 3 weeks.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

In Goat 101 I have a picture and instructions on making one of these I made on with a piece of wood on the inside of the fence for the lambar nipples and then the tubes running into the ice chest on the outside of the pen Used kefir in with my milk and loved it.


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## SANDQ (Dec 27, 2011)

Are you guys feeding milk or milk replacer? All my surplus milk goes for sale, for which I get alot more per liter than the milk replacer costs me. For those interested I have saved on my computer a comprehensive guide by the, Australian, New South Wales government, which gives all possible information needed for raising goat kids. It includes easy to follow diagrams on how to make a variety of inexpensive kid feeding set ups. Im not that computer literate so cannot ( yet ) give you a direct link, but if you google " artificial rearing goat kids " it comes up near the top www.dpi.nsw.gov.au Hope this helps Oh the power of the internet, just wish I new how to work it. " If it don't give milk, don't know how it works " Q: 2012


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## Ziggy (Nov 13, 2009)

I don't feed milk replacer --ever. They grow a lot better on real milk and less sickness. we have not "lost" a kid in 3 years. I do know of many dairies that do feed replacer and they have varying percentages of mortality rates feeding replacerm- but as you say they are in business to make money selling their milk.


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## SANDQ (Dec 27, 2011)

Please dont think I look at my goats as money making machines only, they get the best care possible. My biggest problem is stopping my wife cuddling them all. They are my income, so I have to look at profit margins eg the use of milk replacer. In the 4 years Ive been farming goats and the 20+ years I worked with cows Ive never lost 1 animal due to feeding milk replacer. I totally agree that feeding real milk is better, and if I had Boer goats for meat that is the way I would go, but my income is from cheese and I cant afford to give all that precious milk to those little ones. :nooo


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## Ziggy (Nov 13, 2009)

I understand and I am glad that you are successfull with milk replaceer but dairies and others I know who Used it don't seem to be as successfull. If I was producing cheese Commericallly I think I would probably still feed real milk but perhaps wean at 2 months rather than feed them as long as I do now ( basically until does dry up,or they wean themselves)


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

I know it probably seems strange, but a lot of the folks here are in the business of raising goats, moreso than the business of selling their milk. (not all, there are plenty selling milk too). Many breeders around here, have a huge surplus of milk, and nothing to do with it; I bet a big factor in that being all the regulations; many many people I've talked to at shows, etc. are dumping all the milk on the ground, bathing in it, etc. because they have no outlet for it, nor interest in investing in all the expensive equipment required. 

One other consideration, is here in the US, most of the time, whole cow's milk from the grocery store, is about the same price as milk replacers, and goats grow just fine on it.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Same here Quentin, I simply have never been successful with milk replacer. There is no way I can get kids who simply won't drink enough of the replacer to 100 pounds at 8 months old to be bred to kid and start milking right after their first birthday. Now I can do it on grocery store homogenized pasteurised milk and why I am not one of those who thinks grocery store milk is the devil  I can buy 3 gallons of milk right from a store, I get 5 gallons of milk from my supplier for the same amount I can sell 1 gallon of goatmilk for, and milk replacer is way more expensive here. Most of the protein in our milk replacers are soy, which small ruminants don't do well on.


When you do read in the states of those who do well with a milk replacer it is always some super expensive brand or if you really press them they feed it WITH goatmilk added and it is always to older ruminant kids, not goatlings/infants.

Conversely to the size of your goats, my 15 month olds who are milking weigh in the 135 to 145 pound range. They have kidded with 2 or 3 kids and are milking 6 to 7 pounds. I have to have excellent nutrition for them to accomplish that.

Is it OK with the link you put up if we put it into goatkeeping 101? To save for others? Vicki


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## SANDQ (Dec 27, 2011)

I thought that was the case with most of you .I am lucky I suppose, that I turn most of my milk directly into cheese, for which I get a high return. If, and the time may well come, ( when EU regs get a foothold here ) that I sell my milk directly to a dairy, they pay less per liter than the cost of milk replacer, so then I will be feeding mums milk back to my kids. As far as I am aware I am the only person in Bulgaria feeding milk replacer to goats. It has taken a long time to find goat milk replacer, and I get it imported to me from Holland directly from the manufaturer. As for the link, of course you can post it elsewhere, Im a firm believer in sharing information.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

OK the ice chest lambar pictures /diagrams are now in Goat 101. "sorry"


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## Polopony (Dec 24, 2011)

"I put a frozen gallon of milk in the lambar and them pour a gallon of pasturized milk in the bucket." Sorry, but that made me laugh. Around here it wouldn't thaw out until June.


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## SANDQ (Dec 27, 2011)

Hi Viki, in connection with the link I posted, the correct address is www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/agriculture/livestock/goats/mgt/general/rearing
Regards Quentin


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Thanks Quentin!

Thanks Sondra! What a cool idea to line it with a trash can liner etc...to make cleaning easier! Vicki


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

I have had good luck with feeding a _very_ good quality calf milk replacer to my goat kids after week 1, but the very good quality is crucial here. I have not been able to find a goat milk replacer that's good enough. I'm having some health problems with some doelings now, and I just switched them back to whole goatmilk 1 1/2 wk ago....


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## SANDQ (Dec 27, 2011)

I used calf milk replacer for the first 3 years, had all sorts of bloat problems with it and had to keep swapping back to whole milk. Hopefully my new batch of goat milk replacer will be better. As you say with any milk replacer, quality is crucial, nothing but the best should be used!! 1 year, I changed half way through my program, from calf to pig replacer, after talking with the manufactures nutritionalist in Holland, as it contained a milk based protiein not soya, only to find at the end the calf replacer gave me higher daily weight gains. 
It has taken me 3 years to source my goat milk replacer, CHIVALAC produced in Holland by Nutrifeed. As I previously posted it is being sent to only me in Bulgaria. It can be fed from the 3rd day onwards, and should stop my bloat problems. I allways feed concentrates and hay ad lib and these are available to the kids also from the 3rd day onwards. Appreciated, they dont eat vast amounts at a very young age, but if it is available to them they start to eat it sooner which obviously goes along way to increasing daily weight gains. So from March I will be feeding the correct food to the correct animals, and I will see how it goes


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

I am using a Cargill 20/20 all milk milk replacer with BetaMoss. It's great, and the kids grew well and were healthy. I didn't get in trouble until I switched back to whole milk because the milktruck didn't pick up a load (mud anyone, where's my winter???) and I decided to feed it to the kids. Shouldn't have, mad at myself, even though I probably can't blame the two (yeah, it's two now...) doelings I lost on the whole milk, I still wish I wouldn't have made the switch and put the extra stress on the kids... I learn, I will do stuff differently next kidding period: probably use colostrum and then calf milk repalcer only, and in addition add some vaccinations that I did not use this year (pneumonia being the most important one). I think every kid lost is one too many, and I am very upset I lost these two this week.


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## cindy (Sep 16, 2008)

I use as much pasteurized goat milk as I can, however, when the kids demand more milk than I have, I use Jersey Calf milk replacer by Land O Lakes. I am meticulus about weighing out the milk powder and water. As long as I mix it correctly, we do not have any problems with scours. This year, Land O Lakes added biomoss to their mile replacer.


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## Aja-Sammati (Oct 26, 2007)

The milk replacers have sticking point with me- animal fat. Almost all of them contain it. I don't care what they preserve it with, I just want to know the source. Do they mean animal fat as in butterfat they took from milk, or do they mean lard or tallow. 'Cause that is wrong. :ugh


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## SANDQ (Dec 27, 2011)

In my experience and tuition I have been given on the subject, the cheaper the ingredients the cheaper the end product. obviously. The cheaper versions usually contain the lards, tallows etc, while the top of the range products, give you a replacer which is far closer to mothers milk. Hence the importance, if feeding any animal milk replacer, buy the best! Anything less is false economics.


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## Aja-Sammati (Oct 26, 2007)

I agree, Quentin, to buy the best, but the companies, at least here in the US, do not tell you what kind of animal fat is used. Just because the price tag is higher, does not mean that the product is better. With milk replacer I have looked at, almost all of the ingredients lists are the same, the well known name brands (like Land O Lakes) have a higher price, but the same ingredients list.


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## SherrieC (Oct 26, 2007)

I clicked on the CFI link and there is no longer a photo with the item, on clicking further the sku info the photo is grey nipples at $ 1 more then Jeffers.


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## SANDQ (Dec 27, 2011)

Just to recap, I take it that when feeding with lambars it is free choice? The instructions on my milk replacer gives varying amount of milk for different ages if fed on a controlled system. Could I for example, if lets say at 2 weeks old a kid needs 500 ml milk/ per feed and I have 4 kids, put 2 L in the lambar bucket and let them drink it, in one sitting, then remove the bucket until the next feeding. This would be as a replacement to bottles and save alot of work and time.
However, my thought on this although it will save time and work, will not then be a controlled feeding system as kids drink at different rates, so some would get more than the 500 ml they should which would mean that the others get less than the 500 ml they should.


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## SherrieC (Oct 26, 2007)

anybody find black nips yet : )


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## Ziggy (Nov 13, 2009)

I don't ever advise using milk replacer (if you can't get or dont have goats milk then use cows milk) but with regards to the question about 500ml remember that the whole idea with this method is free choice - it should always be available and once they get used to it they won't gorge but only take what is needed - just like if they were nursing their Dam. I put out full coolers and usually there is some left when I change them out every 12 hours or so - that is what you want so it is always available to them.


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## Cannon_farms (Nov 17, 2009)

I cant see anything for the chest feeders and really really want to see the idea as we are expecting our first large quantity of kids this Feb. Does anyone else know where I can find links or pictures of this seemingly brilliant idea?


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## Ziggy (Nov 13, 2009)

There is a picture in here (I think on page 3) http://anrcatalog.ucdavis.edu/pdf/8160.pdf


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## Cannon_farms (Nov 17, 2009)

Thanks Ziggy! Page 8 FYI 
Those panels are kinda expensive Tarter Gate Co used to carry them when I was a manager for TSC. I bet it would be less expensive to catch the premium dog kennels TSC sells with the welded wire (AKC or the other one) instead of the panels being 6 ft high turn them so they are 6 ft long. 

We plan on using horse wire for our kid pens next year just for the ideal bottle holding kid cant escape, get their head hung in benefits.


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## Ziggy (Nov 13, 2009)

Interesting idea on the panels ..I have used a 6 foot kennel for temporary housing pens. You made me realize that if i pulled it apart and use the panels on the sides it would give me a lot more area and could probably make two pens out of one set. Thanks!


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## Cannon_farms (Nov 17, 2009)

I have a chronic problem with looking at something then trying to figure out how to use it neatly for the goats.. sometimes I scare myself as these thoughts come through my head..


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