# Adult dehorning complication



## Cannon_farms (Nov 17, 2009)

Im sorry if I dont seem to post here often but I am a lurker learning all I can from the best of the best. 
Long story short I bought a herd out and one of the does had been improperly disbuded and a large scur type horn grew back and was growing back into her head. It was so tight we (meaning my vet and I) could hardly get the wire saw between her horn and head. He used an iron to cauterize and burn the root in hopes the full horn wouldnt grow back but a manageable scur.
It left a hole going to her sinus and up until a now, a month later its been fine however today while trimming hooves I noticed puss coming out of it, go her on the stand and cleaned what I could up but I have no idea of what to do for her. You can see a membrane through the small hole. Im leery of flushing it out because I am not familiar with the anatomy there or the damage it could cause. I did put some teramicine cream in it but not much.
She is going to go to the vet tomorrow but I just dont know if I should do anything today. For what its worth she doesnt seem ill no fever and is still putting her pitch in to be herd queen.
Shes a two year old Saanen doe


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I wouldn't allow a vet to do this to a goat, they aren't cattle. I would now have him lidocaine the area and put her to sleep, clean it out really well and pull skin over the top of it and stitch it closed. You can imagine how this is going to be an ongoing problem with her sinuses if you just let it be.

For now superglue some gauze to the hair around the hole...the gauze will keep debrie out of the hole, but she also might find this irritating and just scrub it off with her foot, which is going to add more bacteria to the open site. Vicki


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

You can make a collar for her out of a plastic coffee can. Cut it up the middle and cut the end off. Put it around her neck and tape it there. That should help keep her from removing the gauze with her foot.


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## Cannon_farms (Nov 17, 2009)

Im going out to try and get some pictures so you can get a better idea. Im thinking after its flushed out that we can make a plug for the hole. There simply isnt enough skin there to pull over yet without making her look like shes had a really bad face lift. 
Its been staying clean pretty well, just a few days ago I checked it and could see cleanly down. She kept her elastcon bandage on for several days without trying to get it off so we may have to just go back with that until it can heal more.

My vet is actually one of the few good goat vets out there. He like me didn't like doing this but really thought it was the best due to the probability I wouldn't keep the doe and didn't want her to wind up with a horn growing into her head again. 
Just in case this ever comes up again how else would you deal with a scur go wrong? I have never had them thankfully with my goats I have had done but have turned down some nicely bred goat because I didn't want to deal with for-mentioned problem.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

It takes a long time for them to heal up after a dehorning process has been done. Keep the hole as clean as possible, use catron IV to keep flies from laying eggs in the cavity. I would just use the gauze and collar as suggested. Flush the cavity out with anti-boitics and water. Distilled water is best. take 2 ccs anti-biotics (biomycin or duramycin) and squirt in cavity, flush immediately with distilled water. You will have the goat sneezing and fighting the whole time but do it. Then guaze over and place collar on. Please keep seperate from other goats as the "Cone of Shame" will be enough of a reason to beat on said animal. Check on guaze ywice a day and watch for oozing. You do NOT want to plug the hole, it will trap in bacteria and you will have more problems.

I have done this a couple of times now with not enough skin to cover over the hole. They will have snot bubbles and crud for awhile. You know things are healing when the skin around the hole is a light pink and flaking. Be sure to keep the inner part clean and sprayed with catron IV (spray liberally).
Tam


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## Cannon_farms (Nov 17, 2009)

Im not sure what Catron IV is but is it something like wound coat or furazine (sp?) spray? 
I can keep her separated my kid pen is right next to the main pasture and I have a Nigerian I can use to keep her company. 
after we get her cleaned up tomorrow Ill post some pictures, tried tonight but batteries died, the only down side to digital cameras I suppose. 

A small bit of back story on how I came across this doe I went to look at a herd for another buyer, when we got there the herd was in sever distress being emaciated and wormy. It was too much work for the other person but while we where looking I thought I knew some of the goats there from the breeder I bought my goats from, a couple I had here on trial and come to find out I had known every one but two of the goats and knew very well where they came from so I went home and loaded up 17 new goats.
All but this one have recovered from their ordeal shes been the slowest to recover and gain weight, then this I so feel badly for her and guilty.


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## Rose (Oct 26, 2007)

It's a pyrethrin spray. Comes in many names, brands.
http://www.horsehealthusa.com/details/Catron-IV-Spray/81-315.html


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I know it doesn't look like it, but they have plenty of skin from the back of the head to pull forward. Texas A&M cuts out horns and scurs, pulling the skin over the opening, you have stitches to take out in 7 to 10 days and the goats go home with perfect heads....no fly strike, no infections. Vicki


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## ockeracres (Mar 11, 2008)

I had a boer buck get into a fight with another buck and "dislocate" his horns (they were starting to break from his skull). He got infected and I used mastitis treatment to squirt into the cavity. It took a week or so, but it cleared up. I couldn't really get in and clean the area out b/c every time I even slightly bumped it he was in pain. He is doing just fine now.


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## funnyfarmtexas.com (Oct 3, 2012)

i had the same problem and would pour peroxide in the wound twice a day. it worked and she is fine. it was one of the most traumatic things i have ever gone through. I took some bad advice and banded the horns. never again.


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## Sans Gene Goats (May 15, 2011)

We had a doeling we didn't disbud correctly and started growing very large scurs, and was redone by the vet under anesthesia. He warned me that when the scurs fell off, there might be a hole through the skull into the sinus cavity. Sure enough that's what happened. I took her back in and he put a gauze patch on, but she rubbed it off. We got creative and made a vetwrap "helmet" to hold a furazolidone coated piece of gauze over the hole after dusting it with furazolidone. And we fly-sprayed the crud out of her head, too. I changed the bandage twice a day until the hole started filling in with tissue, then went to once a day and then every two days until skin formed. About this time the other scur fell off - leaving a hole, though smaller, so we did the guaze/helmet routine again. 

Here are some pictures of Lucy and her special purple helmet. Surprisingly, she and the other goats left it alone. AT first I had to put her in a headgate to redress and rewrap, but after a week or so I could just stand over her and she held nice and still. I think she wore her "helmet" for about 4 weeks each time. We were lucky though and never had any infection. 

Hope your girl gets better quick. That was a very kind thing you did for those goats.


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

Just when I thought I'd finally read everything that could give me shivers I stumble on THIS conversation. Is it really so risky to simply leave their horns alone? 

Which breeds have the least dangerous horns?


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## Cannon_farms (Nov 17, 2009)

Its just as debated as vaccines in children and halloween, but its a fact that dairy goats in order to be shown must be disbudded, after running a herd of meat goats for a few years before going to dairy I can say I dont miss the bruises, and having to put down my best kid of the year because another doe hooked his leg and broke it by twisting it with her horns, compound fracture had to be put down.
I dont think its very humane for the goats of my neighbor to be hung in the fence for house, sometimes getting ripped apart by neighboring dogs, one got hung in a tree another a piece of equipment both died a horrible death, so no, I dont think dehorning them is the lesser of the two evils.

Btw this doe is fine after a couple of doses of penn G and her head is almost completely closed, there was very little debris and the vet wasnt concerned at all. I did find out she was still loaded with worms and coccidia even though we treated her, oddly enough she was the only one in the herd with coccidia.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Maybe the stress from the dehorning got her immune system down and thats why she is still having cocci. Glad to hear she is healing from it. And I agree, you have done well to get her head smooth. When you have goats that you are in close proximity with every day, a smooth head makes things safer. 
Ray, disbudding a kid at the right time (within the first week or two of life) is a task that only takes a few seconds and greatly increases their well-being and value.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Great to hear on her improvement De  
Tam


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## Qz Sioux (Feb 21, 2009)

Ray, to add to the post about disbudding, if you have a great milker, you certainly don't want some goat, herd mate, or whatever getting a horn hung up on that udder and ripping it to shreds. Even meat goats that have to reproduce, need their udders in order to feed their young. If a does udder is ripped up, she may not be able to use half or all of it....then what? You have to put the doe down. Most "J. Q. Public" don't disbud due to the "extra" work it involves. But really, what is the difference in dis budding, or castrating? Both are a little painful, but in the end, it is what needs to be done.

If you buy an older goat with horns and bring it into your herd, that goat KNOWS how to use their horns. Then if you decide, that "hey, those things gotta go!" you have to go through the bigger hassle of de-horning, which is much more labor and pain intensive.


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## Cannon_farms (Nov 17, 2009)

I was wondering because I had 14 white goats when I treated for coccidia I didnt do one twice and not do her, I dont think that was the case but theres two that look exactly the same the other saanens had something to set them apart. 

I cant find anything that horns are good for other than head butting. When one of my does is correcting a pup for being out of line she will still send him flying. I feed 50lbs of dog food a week to feed better protection that what they can gain from horns. 
I always think its odd when I work some large boer herds here Ill come home and look at my legs and arms several days later and I am covered in a rainbow of spots aka bruises and not even usually know how they became about.


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

Is there some way to simply trim or shorten horns on older goats? 

It is same with our cats we never declaw them and then have to do all that extra maintenance always trimming their nails.


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## lonestrchic23 (Jan 7, 2011)

You could stress the animal out & try to keep horns trimmed, but I don't see that working & it would take a lot of constant work to maintain it....

So skip all that, and disbud properly, or buy goats that have already been done 

I disbud between 4-7 days old usually. I can feel the bump of the bud, but it's not big, and it hasn't broke through the skin yet. 

I'm a baby about it & give them banamine before I start. I use a good iron, and let it heat fully. I do two, 6 second burns on each bud & make sure I do a good, even job.

I've never had a problem, and no scurs. Had twins 2 years ago who, immediately after disbudding, were running around, & HEAD BUTTING each other as if nothing had happened. Never any infections or bug issued when I disbud either...

It's much less tramatic to disbud than dehorning. I won't dehorn, ever....

Of course, if you like horns, you can keep them & not do anything..... But if you decide to go with hornless, buy animals who have been disbudded properly.


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## nlhayesp (Apr 19, 2012)

The only time I had to remove a long, horn-like scur was when it was growing into the goat's scull. The vet "chopped" it off with cattle dehorners (after injecting novacaine(?) around the area. He said to let him know if she ended up with pus coming out her nose so she could be put on antibiotic. My advice is to separate her, if not already. PUT HER HAY?FEED ON THE GROUND. When she,or other goats pull their food down, it drifts into the gaping holes in her head. It took about a month to heal and no infection. Iodine/hydrogen peroxide twice a day will it flush it out, penicillin will clear out the infection. I really like idea of using of "Today" mastitis treatment tubes. We have used this on other surface injuries. It has been very handy to have.


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

informative said:


> Is there some way to simply trim or shorten horns on older goats?
> 
> It is same with our cats we never declaw them and then have to do all that extra maintenance always trimming their nails.


Ray, I'm just wondering, since your signature line doesn't mention it, do you have goats already and if so which breed(s)?


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## Patty13637 (Oct 26, 2007)

Also make sure they are UTD on Tetnaus.


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## Qadosh Adamah Lamanchas (Nov 2, 2012)

Once upon a time, I used to not disbud. I liked the look of horns, and they do have a practical use in regard to heating and cooling the goat's body. However, if you think more on the matter, horns originally grew on goats for defense purposes. They were wild and those horns saved their lives. They lived on the slopes of rocky mountains and faced threats daily. Today, we are raising cultivated, domesticated goats and horns are more of a hindrance than a blessing unless you have an open range situation in which your goats are faced with threats daily, same as wild ones. This is not the case for probably 99.99% of dairy goats! Anyhow, as it's been stated, those horns are a hindrance in this domesticated, cultivated setting. We humans are responsible for their defense, so we build fences, get livestock guardian dogs, set out coyote traps, shut them in the barn at night, etc. Those horns now can get caught in fences and be used to hurt the other goats and they also make getting that goat into the stanchion awfully difficult. Needless to say, I disbud now.

In my opinion, it's good to use banding to remove scurs whenever possible. We've had success with it. Also, don't be afraid to re-burn kids a few times (especially bucklings) that seem to be developing scurs. I've re-burned up to even 6 months old. I simply cannot fit them in the kid box anymore, so I put them in the stanchion and wrap a towel around their neck to keep their head in place and pad them in case they freak out. But yes, in regard to adult scur removal, I'm an advocate of banding.


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