# American Lamanchas vs Purebred Lamanchas



## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

*I was looking at a website and found some very nice Lamanchas...I started digging around and back in their pedigrees they have recorded grades and experimentals. Not far back though. The few I was interested in getting a kid from were American Lamanchas. There's a purebred that is my first choice but my second and third choices are AM Lamanchas.

For those of you who have Lamanchas, do you find it's harder to sell AM vs PB? Would you buy AM's or do you strictly stick with PB?

With my Nubians, I have all purebred and have no interest in owning Americans. And I had wanted to stay with all purebred even with the Lamanchas.

Thankyou in advance!!*


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## Qvrfullmidwife (Oct 25, 2007)

no probs selling AM LM mainly because you can breed up. I have probably 6 PB LM here whose granddam was an AM LM that was one of our first goats.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Yea, since the herdbooks are open, I wouldn't think it would be as big of a deal.


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## adillenal (Feb 6, 2009)

Well, I just bought a LaMancha doeling because I wanted a kid from her dam. I had to go look at her papers to see if she was American or Purebred so I guess that didn't make any difference to me.


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## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

Lol thats good to hear all your thoughts. Thanks for replying! I think I am going to hold off on purchasing any Lamancha's and stick with my plan of reserving a couple of doelings for next year's kid crop.


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

My entire doe herd is derived from one single LaMancha doe. Although she was elgible for registration, I was unable to get the papers. Yes, one of those stories. This doe came off the milk line from a dairy and was a tremendous milker. Every LaMancha doe on the place here is her decendant. The herd is American and on it's way up to Purebred. One more generation and two lines will be purebred. And by "lines", I mean that the oringinal doe, Percy by report a "Heath" daughter, had five daughter with the same original unregistered buck from the same dairy, supposedly a Faiwoods Houstons Icon grandson. So each of the 5 sisters is a different line. And I keep the best of the best of each line. I am putting one line to rest though. So now there are four lines


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## Lynn_Theesfeld (Feb 21, 2010)

How does the process work from going to AM to PB?


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## dvm-mommy (Feb 5, 2009)

I would have no problem buying either AM or PB.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Lynn only in LaMancha can a doe move from grade into the purebred herdbook, because their herdbook is open. Vicki


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## Lynn_Theesfeld (Feb 21, 2010)

Vicki,
It's ok I just wanted to know how you went from Am to PB I imagine keep breeding out the mix x amout of times?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

If you find a Lamancha who has no ears  you can record her as a grade in ADGA, I just write you a note saying she conforms to the LaMancha breed standard and she is recorded. You breed her to an ADGA American or Purebred buck and her kids are 50% grade LaMancha. Breed that daughter to a purebred LaMancha buck and the kids are 75% Grade LaMancha. Breed that kid to a purebred LaMancha buck and the kid is American. One more time and the doelings are Purebred LaMancha. Now all through this you are only supposed to click 'conforms to breed standard' if she does. Like my Appy, the Alpine/Nubian cross doe I have, she conforms to neither Nubian or Alpine and likely her daughters will not either, so although are higher percentage don't move up towards American because they won't have pendulous ears. vicki


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## Lynn_Theesfeld (Feb 21, 2010)

Interesting, thanks Vicki


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

Lynn, I have many does and doelings in my breeding program to move from grade to American to Purebred. I have two doelings who are 75% who will be bred to a Registered purebred LaMancha buck and their daughters will be 87.5 % and considered American, then these American daughters will be bred to a reg. purebred LM and these daughters will be 99% and considered purebred. So I will finally have my purebreds in two more generations. It will be very satisfying for me to have done this work with my herd. After having the girls for these generations, I know my stock and their genes so to speck, quite well. I have sold many cgood milkers along the way 50% and 75% that did not make the cut. I am not just breeding anything with the higher percentage just to get to that purebred designation more quickly. I have even had years when I did not progress when the only choices i had were not good ones and i did not my herd to go in that direction, whether it be poor conformation or idiot personality. I would rather lose a year here and there than breed what in my mind is crap. Anyway,Happy dance about how far I have come since 2004!


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## Rambar Ranch (Oct 25, 2007)

"Lynn only in LaMancha can a doe move from grade into the purebred herdbook, because their herdbook is open. Vicki"

Just a note though, you can breed up Sables as well as Lamanchas to purebred status.

Ray Adams


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## Lynn_Theesfeld (Feb 21, 2010)

Thanks for the info Diane and Ray,
Sorry If i'm being a pain just trying to get a better understanding  (though i am sure if I took the time I could find it all on ADGA, but that really isn't my favorite site 
Thanks again!
Lynn
P.S. Just wondering How long have you been working toward your goal Diane? It must be exciting to finally see the light with about 2 more years left to go!! Congrats


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

Lynn, I started with a LaMancha buckling (Data) and a 2ndF doe (Perseverance) in June 2004, and that cross started the whole project. I was to get the registration papers on the buckling and doe and the dairy owner where I bought them, told me after purchase and after I took them home and had already paid for them that she was behind too many generations and that I would have to pay all the fees plus much more money and so forth. Then she cackled into the phone. So, the lesson was learned and I had two nice LaManchas with no registration papers. 

And boy was I blown away!

I had never seen such a doe! She milked 11 pounds as a third freshener and I could not believe such things existed! This is when i found DG+ an old forum where I met the old gals here. I was not new to dairy goats but new to DAIRY goats. I mean goats that really milk. Then my doe died of multi-newbie issues. I cried and learned and was thankful that she had had a set of twin doelings (Sugar and Spice) and then triplet doelings (Agnes, Glennis and Francis). So 5 genetic sisters all sired by Data. I used the same unregistered LaMancah buck two years in a row because it was not until I knew yall here on the forum that I could shop for a buck.

So 5 does all grades. This was my foundation. All the same genetic cross. All milked at least 9-11 pounds. With only Francis milking 9. These does had been crossed with Kelton. Then those doelings assessed and some kept. Then they were bred with another buck from Swede farm from where kelton originated. And now the best of that generation will be bred to another Swede farm buckling.

I do not keep and breed every doeling. As my herd improves, there is more and more conformity and it is harder and harder to cull with the same swift glance. Especially since i have a few doelings that have not grown out well this year but do carry the same genetic material the same as if they did. So I am not breeding them til fall of their second year, if they indeed make the cut.


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## Lynn_Theesfeld (Feb 21, 2010)

Diane,

*She milked 11 pounds as a third freshener and I could not believe such things * That's amazing! I see why you wanted to keep that line  It's pretty exciting to know you can do that with certain breeds. So much to learn!! (Glad I am young lol ) Though I won't be owning any Lamachas anytime soon it's still good to know just what you can and can't do with them 
Congrats on all of your hard work!!!!
Lynn


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