# Disbudding question...



## MiddleRiver (Oct 30, 2007)

I don't own an iron, and this is really the only thing i do not feel comfortable doing myself. I do however have a wonderful goat friend that does it for me, BUT these two kids, alpine twins buckling and doeling, now 11 days old, will be 12 days old tomorrow, had to wait till they had the time to do it, which is tomorrow. We are keeping the buckling and he will be made into a wether and kept for a buddy for our buck, so i really don't want scurs on him, and my doe i want to show, and i just hate scurs !

Anyways, i'm wondering, is there anything i can suggest to them to do to help even more to prevent scurs ? They just burn till the copper ring - and so far it has worked, but i've never waited this long to do it, and my bucklings nubs are just starting to break through the skin - gosh i hope he doesn't get scurs.

Can anybody tell me more about popping off the cap ? When do you do it ? Is it easy to get off ? How do you pop it off ? Do you then give it a burn under where the cap was ? I've also heard something about burning bucklings in a figure 8 as their horns are a different shape then doelings ??? 

Any instructions would be great - detailed too please, as it will be a first for me, and a first for the disbudder's having to do anything besides the good copper ring. Thanks !


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 27, 2007)

With big buds on doelings or bucklings that have been let go to long, I take a sharp pair of heavy-duty scissors, and using one hand on the handles and one hand on the end of the blades to use pressure for a clean cut, I snip the bud off all but flat to the head. It will bleed, sometimes a lot. Take the already hot iron, cauterize the wound till the bleeding is stopped, then just disbudd as usual. I burn till I get a white ring, not a copper ring. I've done my share of these this year. The weather has been so bad that some of my disbudding customers haven't been able to get here till later than the ideal time. This way works well for me.


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## BlueHeronFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

Ok-- I am not the expert -- my husband does it -- but he uses the side of the iron to burn an "X" across the bud, after the copper ring is made, and then he cuts away/"pops off" excess burnt tissue with hoof shears.

I hope that helps a little.


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

I have disbudded them even older than yours are with great success and no scurs forming. You have to be aggressive in that you let the disbudding iron get very hot and then get a good copper ring on the first bud, then let the iron heat up hot again and then do the second bud. Don't rush. As far as popping the top of the horn bud, there is really nothing to that, it just comes right off. Then use the edge of the hot iron to burn the middle of the bud where the top just popped off. Just be slow and thorough and don't get in a hurry. Always be sure your iron is hot enough. The babies will be fine. Better to get a good copper ring the first time, then to not do it well enough and get scurs. Oh, it helps to have a good goatholder (helper). And if you are going to be on your knees (that's the position I end up in) then have some padding for them so you won't hurt.


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## MiddleRiver (Oct 30, 2007)

Emily - you do this even when the buds are not too big for the disbudder ? Or only when they are so big it's a hard fit for the tip of it ? As his buds aren't all that big yet, i've felt bigger, and i'm not sure how much i could cut off, but i'll try it if thats what i've got to do. 

How far after the copper ring does the white ring come ?


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## MiddleRiver (Oct 30, 2007)

Wow thanks everybody ! That helps a lot ! BlueHeronFarm - explaining it by doing an x over it really helps, he does that before he pops the cap though right ? 

Thanks !!!


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 27, 2007)

Yes, I do this to big buds even when they would still fit in the disbudder ring.
I want the bud to be flat against his head when I'm done. Usually I burn it flat like Diane said, but if its very big it takes less time and less stress on me and the kid to snip it flat, then burn whats left. You can burn it flat, it just takes more time so I prefer to snip.
I never time it, just burn till I see white. It doesn't take long. I use a *very* hot iron.


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

I like to burn mine at 4 days so it is pretty easy. We have some we are going to try to do tonight that are 9 and 10 days old. The buds are still small, these are LaMancha doelings, but I really hate to wait any longer. Not only do the buds get bigger, but the kids get stronger and harder to hold which is also an issue.


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## BlueHeronFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

MiddleRiver said:


> Wow thanks everybody ! That helps a lot ! BlueHeronFarm - explaining it by doing an x over it really helps, he does that before he pops the cap though right ?
> 
> Thanks !!!


He said he trims a little before the X, burns the X and then trims again.


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## Katarina (Oct 25, 2007)

We burn until we get a solid copper ring then pop off the cap with the side of a knife. If you did well the first time it will fly right off. Then we use the side of teh iron to cauterize the inside part then burn around teh bud again.

Big kids that didnt get done on time we use hoof trimmers (cleaned well, of course) to cut the horn off flush to the head, then repeat the above. It sometimes happens that the base is so big that you kind of have to overlap several circles, so that it ends up looking like those interlocking olympic rings all the way around teh base...kind of hard to explain, easy to show.


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## Katarina (Oct 25, 2007)

And w/our LM...if they arent done by the end of the first week, we definitely have to cut first. The nubians...we cant hardly ever DO before the end of teh first week, those buds are so miniscule!


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2008)

How I disbud (X50):

Trim hair around horn buds.

Burn horn bud for 5-7 seconds.

Pop horn button off with a flat head screwdriver. 

Burn a 'X' where the horn button used to be.

Burn horn bud until a copper colored ring is achieved.

Spray with Fural.


Super easy and we never get scurs... even when we wait longer than we should to disbud.  

Sara


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## MiddleRiver (Oct 30, 2007)

Wow, i'm feeling good about not getting scurs now that i've heard from you all ! I'll bring a flat - head screwdriver and some cleaned hoof nippers, and talk with the disbudders and see what they are game for trying - they raise nubians, and have never had issues with scurs, but my alpind doeling last year i had to bring back for a second time. And now having to wait till 12 days with these kids, i'd like to try something more. 

Thanks !!!


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## mill-valley (Feb 22, 2008)

We also use a Rhinehart X50, let it get good and hot (til it looks red). I usually burn til I get a copper ring, then flip the bud off with the tip of the dehorner and burn an "x" on the horn bud. I have had scurs come back only on intact buck kids. Never on a wether or a doe.


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## susie (Oct 28, 2007)

i think it's important to be sure and clip or shave the hair from the bud-- since we started doing this we have had much better results-- we can see better, or perhaps the burning of the hair was cooling our iron down ever so slightly?? Anyway, that's been important for us, FWIW>

Susie


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## stacy adams (Oct 29, 2007)

I agree with clipping the hair from around the bud.. First of all there is a lot _LESS_ smoke from all that burning hair! and it gives a clearer idea where that bud is.. and I agree, that it probably cools, even ever so slightly, the iron, and you want that puppy *hot*! 
I hold and my DH burns.. and we burn for a count of 10 (one, one thousand, two, one thousand, you get the drift) then I flick the hornbud off, I use my gloved thumb to do that, then my HD burns the top with the wide part of the iron to get it flat. I'd never heard of the X thing before.. we also use the Rhinehart X50. and haven't had a scur yet!


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## Chaty (Oct 25, 2007)

Yep I clip them first and then burn ...sure makes it easier to see when you got black horns and black skin... That way I dont have to smell all the hair burning and smoking either...yeuck what a smell...then we get down to business...


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## XCricketX (Feb 22, 2008)

Hmmm... this brings a question to mind. 

I'm having to dehorn older doelings about a year old. Using the castrator band method... the horns are almost off now. 
Do you think I should get the bud area burned afterwards as well as an extra preventative measure?
The castrating band method site says that after they fall off... I do not need to do anything else. 

What are your thoughts?

Cricket


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2008)

XCricketX said:


> The castrating band method site says that after they fall off... I do not need to do anything else.


Which site is this? I have a 7month old pygmy that I wouldn't mind dehorning. Thought it could not be done except for sawing and I did NOT want to do that. 
-Kim


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## XCricketX (Feb 22, 2008)

Here is the link to the article... there is a link at the bottom of the article to view pictures as well.

http://www.greatgoats.com/articles/dehorning_text.html


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks for the link. I appreciate it.

-Kim


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## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

MiddleRiver said:


> Wow, i'm feeling good about not getting scurs now that i've heard from you all ! I'll bring a flat - head screwdriver and some cleaned hoof nippers, and talk with the disbudders and see what they are game for trying - they raise nubians, and have never had issues with scurs, but my alpind doeling last year i had to bring back for a second time. And now having to wait till 12 days with these kids, i'd like to try something more.
> 
> Thanks !!!


 Yep, they will have to be more aggressive with the Alpines than the Nubians. Nubians and Boers are easy to disbud. Have them really work on that buckling because their horns are bigger than the doelings.


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

The elastrator bands will do a good job of taking horns off. But, the horns need to be mature and not still growing. If you put bands on a young goat, the horn continues to grow and you have horrible scurs. Putting 2 bands on each horn works best.


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## XCricketX (Feb 22, 2008)

What will two bands do?

Cricket


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## pop (Dec 25, 2007)

You can burn slightly and then take a sharp knife and cut the bud off smoothe with the head. It will bleed a considerable amount at first. You can then finish burning until you get the good copper colored ring then use the flat side of the iron to burn the entire area making it all flat and smoothe with the head. This will make the head look like it was surgically done.


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## Katarina (Oct 25, 2007)

Be aware that bands will NOT work for everyone and that in order for them to work you have to wait until those horns are quite grown which can be a danger to both goats and people in the meanwhile.


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## XCricketX (Feb 22, 2008)

My doelings horns were 4 1/2 inches long when I did it. They have each lost 1 horn now. Ironically on the same side as each other! LOL!

It bled a little... not too bad, and it looks nice and clean.

Cricket


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## MiddleRiver (Oct 30, 2007)

Thanks everybody ! I was pretty bummed out as on Wed. i had them all packed up and was on my way to get the deed done, and then found out we had to reschedual due to the flu over are their place :+( But tonight i'm going to be bringing them, however, they are now exactly 2 weeks old, and i'm very nervous about this bucking gett scurs, the doeling still has small buds, but the bucklings have really grown and are now about 1/4 - 1/2 inch tall and about as round as a dime or nickle at the base - we shaved around their nubs and you can really see them good now ! We will surely take the cap of, not sure if we will flip it off after a burn, or nip it off, but i just hope we do this right :+) Thanks everybody !!!

Oh, can i give them any banamine before this or after ? i know nobody usually never does, but even if i just gave the buckling some as we will be messing around with his buds more - well, it would make me feel better. If i can, whats the dose ? And should i give it before or after ?


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## Chaty (Oct 25, 2007)

I have given it before and I think I gave mine 0.2 cc's not too much but it made me feel better in the long run


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## MiddleRiver (Oct 30, 2007)

Chaty - did you give it before, or after ? It's about a 15 min. drive over there, so if i gave it before, it would be about 20-25 min. before he is disbudded. It's .1 ml per 10 lbs then ? Thanks !


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## Chaty (Oct 25, 2007)

Sometimes I give it before and then sometimes I wait to see if there is going to be pain...usually give it to the 1's that have bigger horns and more stress .


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## MiddleRiver (Oct 30, 2007)

Thanks Chaty ! Yeah, i don't think i'll give his sister any as her buds are still pretty small, but Rowdy's are getting pretty big now so i'm sure it will take longer and be more stressful :+(


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