# Can you identify this?



## bprzyw (May 5, 2011)

Ok, so i have this doe, nubian, who has had staph on her udder. Milk, dump, clean, spray with cholorhexdine, all clears up. So i decide to clip her, and this is what i find. Any idea? still staph? What to do? Cure or cull? Its really all over her. Also does masitits cause lopsided udders, or can that just be normal?
Thanks
Bernie


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2011)

The staph that gets on the udder can also spread to other parts of the body... most likely what it is.. have you vaccinated with Lysigne.. (spelling)...I often treat this with koppertox and it is gone in two days.. but its a green sticky mess to deal with.. Old man that had goats for yrs told me this.. I also boost immune system with vitamin C, Bo-Se and E... to help their immune system clear it up..Clean your clipper blades... 
Barb


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## Rose (Oct 26, 2007)

http://www.amazon.com/Durvet-Boeringer-Lysigin-Vaccine-Milliliter/dp/B001BLZVJW


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## bprzyw (May 5, 2011)

Yes, i did vacinate with Lysigin that was several weeks ago, 5cc, followed with another 5cc 2 weeks later. Bolused with copper 2-3 weeks ago also. They were cheap clippers, so i think i will toss them. Can i use vitamin c and e like people would take? I i donot have a vet that i can get Rx's from. the nearest one is about 2 hours or better away and wants to see the goat for each occurance, so i am kinda stuck getting the BoSe, or anything else for that matter. I will read up on KopperTox, though. I need to cure this, it gives me the hebbie jeebies.
Thanks


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

Yeah, just get the E capsules and Vit C chewables (they will think they are treats).


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

You can get a selenium/vitamin gel without a rx. That is not as effective as the injectable but it will help. 
As far as culling, you have to decide if she is worth the effort and the risk of contaminating other goats. Those abscesses will heal but they will often heal by moving to the surface and rupturing and it can be a long process. 
And yes, staph can cause lopsided udders.
Good luck with your doe!


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## bprzyw (May 5, 2011)

Thank you, i will start vit C and E tonight, and i have seen the Selenium-E Gel, so might get some of that. I would hate to lose her, she is a good girl, and a good milker. I would also hate to see any other goat get this from her. I will seperate her, and try treating for the long run.
Thanks
B


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Just getting the hair off like you did and with summer coming for you, it will likely clear on it's own. Do think about copper bolusing. Your doe have some stress in her life that brings on staph, for me it was a combo of learning about the role calcium has, copper and selenium that made our nusiance problems with staph, hoof problems, worms and cocci nearly disappear.

Just clean your blades on your clippers with alcohol and a tooth brush. Vicki


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## bprzyw (May 5, 2011)

Vicki, 
I have bolused, 2-3 weeks ago 12.5mg. Would love to BoSe, as i am in an area that is selenium deficient, but going to have to use the gel. She is near the bottom of the herd, status-wise. thanks.
B


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

Be sure to oil your clipper blades again after a thorough cleaning to ensure a smooth cutting action.


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## jejarvis (Nov 11, 2009)

This looks like maybe dermatophilosis (cutaneous streptothrichosis) which would respond to antibiotics such as oxytetracycline. Worth a try. I also apply chlorhexidine or betadine to the areas.

http://www.cfsph.iastate.edu/FastFacts/pdfs/dermatophilosis_F.pdf


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

I guess it all depends on what's going on in your area. I picked up a fungus that looks like that at a goat show once and it reappears in my herd every now and then. I treat it with the pink fungicide spray that for example TSC sells. It's affordable and works like a charm. There's also horse sprays that work (bit more expensive) and I was told Vetricyn will likely do the job (but that stuff is so expensive, that I keep that for special stuff/problems). And yes, those infections/fungi, whatever it is WILL spread with the clippers, so don't throw them away, but do disinfect them between clippings!


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Marion have you read up on the active ingredeints on Vetricyn? I believe the main active ingredient is bleach. There is so much double talk when you try to get good solid information on this product, that it sends up all sorts of red flags, cause it's all marketing. When this first came out we had a mass email go around about it, I wish now I would have saved it, I figured with the cost that nobody would bother with it on this forum  Vicki


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

Thanks Vicki, I actually got this bottle of Vetracin from a friend, stared at the price tag for a while and decided it was not going to be in my showbox for regular use. Since I have it, I'm using it and it seems to do something on the fungus, but as I mentioned: the pink stuff is much cheaper and works like a charm! Thanks for the warning, though, I must have entered this forum AFTER the mass Vetricin-e-mail!


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## bprzyw (May 5, 2011)

Thanks for the replies. Dermatophilosis seems like a horrible thing, just googled it, and the pics were bad, scary bad. I have started her on LA200, two days ago. (i know, the sting) I am giving her SQ shots. I will clean the clippers real good. The Vetricyn, i have got a while ago, does not seem to do anything. I do use it on cuts that i get, and that seems to work fine on me.


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## jejarvis (Nov 11, 2009)

Usually dermatophilosis is not that bad, the photos online just are the worst case scenarios probably on really sick goats in third world countries. In my experience it is just a couple or few round scabs that heal fairly slowly and leave a temporary hairloss. It responds pretty easily to antibiotics by injection or just topically (I usually just use neosporin --triple antibiotic- for humans over-the-counter). Usually a few goats in my herd will get it and also sometimes my cats. Usually it appears in the spring or early summer and it is an annoyance but not a big deal. 
They are not very moist at all, just some hard, dry scabs that appear usually on areas that have less hair, like nose, ears, udders, sometimes over the topline. Kinda like little human kids who get impetigo (a superficial bacterial infection)-- usually not that bad, but sometimes you could get a bad case.

Here is a photo of a goat I bought this year about 6 weeks ago. She had some of the dermatophilosis around her right eye and a little near her mouth. I just applied neosporin and sometimes Fightbac spray (just sprayed it on my hand and rubbed it into the areas). I also gave her one dose of oxytetracycline for hoof rot which probably helped. The scabs went away in about 1 week, and now all the hair has regrown on the areas. She has had a couple similar spots on her udder, but they go away in a couple days with the Fightbac.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Vicki McGaugh Tx Nubians said:


> Marion have you read up on the active ingredeints on Vetricyn? I believe the main active ingredient is bleach. There is so much double talk when you try to get good solid information on this product, that it sends up all sorts of red flags, cause it's all marketing. When this first came out we had a mass email go around about it, I wish now I would have saved it, I figured with the cost that nobody would bother with it on this forum  Vicki


Vet told me it was salt water lol


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## bprzyw (May 5, 2011)

Thanks Julie. Its good to know it isn't that bad all the time. She does seem to be clearing up quite nicely. Nee dto get some FightBac for my kit. Always something.
Bernie


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Bernie chlorhexideen is the same active ingredient as Fight Back. I simply keep some in a spray bottle, I don't buy any other antiseptics or disinfectants but it to use on my goats for everything including teat dipping.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Zinc! Get some zinc into these animals! These are all classic zinc deficiency syndromes. 
They don't need disinfecting they need immune boosting.
Put zinc citrate on their food and give Mineral Max2 injection 1 cc per adult goat if you have access to RX. It is very high zinc in a very available form. Check your loose mineral consumption and the level of zinc in it. Some animals just need more than others.
Lee


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

A deficiency of Zinc is responsible for many ailments in livestock and people and is a much underrated nutrient. Skin disorders are often the first sign of a potential deficiency and it can progress to the point of anorexia and organ failure. This can be from zinc deficient soils so that the plants they graze on contain a less than optimum amount or it can be a malasorbtion issue with the individual animal or it can be antagonists in the environment and feeding regime. 

Zinc is essential for the formation of new skin cells and all staph infections can be traced to deficiency of zinc. This has been proven in humans as well while learning to treat hospital acquired staph infections. 

There are antagonists for zinc and there are co-nutrients needed for availability and processing.
Vitamins A and D are essential for zinc processing so low levels of those nutrients will cause a secondary zinc deficiency. So animals in overcast areas or those kept housed for extended times are at risk. Zinc has a direct impact on appetite and an animal that does not compete well for food is often showing you zinc issues rather than the supposed pecking order effect. 

We have been growing our grains on the same land for decades with no additions of micro-nutrients and the lesser minerals unless practicing sustainable agriculture. MOST livestock feed (grain) is grown on deficient soils with only additions of the big 3 in a chemical fertilizer. So one of the main supposed sources of zinc for your livestock is not providing it. 

The biggest advantage to proper zinc levels is improved immune function and it is essential to DNA replication and protein synthesis and has a direct relationship with the function of many enzymes. The form of zinc to supplement with must be an amino acid chelate because many forms are inert and will pass thru the system with no effect. Zinpro is a product that has already been bound to a protein so that it actually is usable. This is zinc in the methionine form. Supplementation is difficult because absorption is so varied depending on conditions in digestion and this is why the cattle industry has responded to the development of zinc injections. It does a miracle like turnaround in skin and immunity issues as well as appetite. 

Stress of any kind causes rapid depletion of zinc in skin and tissue and this includes excessive heat and sun exposure. It is particularly important to keep the zinc levels of your bucks optimum since there is much used in the formation of spermatozoa and seminal fluids and overall reproductive health is improved with proper zinc levels. This is true of humans as well and many urinary and reproductive issues trace to low zinc levels.

While we have focused on the benefits of copper supplementation in dairy goats-and there are many- the drawback is the antagonistic relationship to zinc. So balancing mineral supplementation is always a seesaw unless you supplement with whole grains grown sustainably or hay with the seed heads grown on zinc fertilized meadows. It is estimated that only about 30% of dietary zinc from food is absorbed and utilized. Our high levels of calcium in the alfalfa we all feed is also a zinc antagonist and those of you with high levels of iron are adding to the list of blockers for zinc uptakes. So taking for granted that any zinc is getting to your animal is a mistake. 

One reason people started adding sunflower seed to rations was the high level of micro-nutrients they CAN pick up but only if they are available in the soil where grown-so if you just have a few goats consider growing a patch of sunflowers for harvest making sure that the ground is well prepared before planting. The absolute premium source is pumpkin seed so harvest any you can from any source in the fall. 

Humans benefit immensely from good levels of zinc in their diet and nuts and seeds are a great way to do that.
If you have skin issues don't reach for some kind of disinfectant to kill something your goats should be able to take care of themselves. You are not doing anything but making yourself feel like you did something. Get them some zinc in a good available form. For a start...Wipe zinc oxide cream on their skin instead of antibacterials. Good luck- read up on zinc!


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## jejarvis (Nov 11, 2009)

Wow, thanks for that info on zinc! I do use Multimin injectable (rx) sometimes, but I was mostly using it for the copper and selenium. It also has zinc and manganese. I use Payback loose goat minerals which has a chelated zinc, I believe methionine (sp?). Since I switched to this one a couple months ago, my goats sure have looked better. Maybe it was the zinc!

You hit the nail on the head when you said that all our grain and hay is grown on depleted soil. They have to add tons of fertilizer for things to grow. I have also read that the fertilizers deplete many of the nutrients. My goats do look better when they can browse in the summer in our woods. I wonder if anyone has developed a pasture mineral supplement to scatter around the pastures so that the grass and browse we are growing for our goats is at the optimal levels? We live in the wet Pacific NW where the rain washes away lots of things like copper and selenium-- Wonder if I can just amend the soil in the goats areas, so at least their grass will be more nutritious.


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## bprzyw (May 5, 2011)

Lee, 
What can i say, WOW, that shines a new light on things. You are really like an encyclopedia!!! Thank you.


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## peregrine (Dec 9, 2008)

Yes that does look like zinc deficiency. I have seen a wolf with this problem and it looks the same. Also mildly like demodectic mange, but you would not see improvement with that without ivermectin. It is also something that rears its head when an animal is already compromised with a bad immune system.


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## bprzyw (May 5, 2011)

Ok, just an update, I have gotten Mineral Max EAD paste, been using it since friday, once a day 5cc's on her for one week, then once a week 5cc's. Have not seen any change as of yet. lots of zinc and selenium in it. Am i expecting way too much from this or will it take awhile?
B


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## Rosesgoats (Apr 22, 2011)

So pumpkin seeds are a good source of zinc? How much should you feed a day per goat? I will have to save all my pumpkin seeds this year!


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## cariboujaguar (Feb 9, 2009)

Had a friend with a Saanen doe covered exactly like this. She treated her for a yr with everything she could think of and it wouldn't go away (bathing her, shaving her, copper/selenium/vitamin injectable etc. The vet finally told her just to cull the doe, they gave up. She wanted to learn from the doe though, in case it ever showed up again in an animal she wasn't willing to cull, she decided she'd rather kill the doe in an effort to learn then sell her so she started more vigorous treatments, giving each one a month to 'settle' so she didn't get mixed up on what worked.

Giving the doe an entire tube of ivermectin cleared it up. She also cleaned the bumps with Benadine and gave the doe a series of penicillian that same week, that was the month is cleared up and has never re-appeared... we still have no idea what it is...


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