# Pending births.. How do you all keep this in check?



## KUrby (Oct 27, 2007)

Ok, I have yet to kid out a goat, but have foaled out many horses, calfs,kittens, pups, you name it.. We all have our way of keeping tabs on them.. How do you do it??
We now have cameras for foaling, but use to it was alot of sleepless nights..
What is your protocol??
It will be interesting to see how different we all do it?
Karen


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## Good Goats (Oct 26, 2007)

When it's a doe's due date and we suspect that she is going to have them real soon (that night..,if it is not in the day), then we just set alarms for every 2 hours or so and check on her.
Once we did this with a doe, and it was probably 11 or so at night and it looked like she may have them soon, but was not in labor yet and had just ate that evening like normal, so we just set alarms for every 2 hours and checked on her, and sure enough, at 5 am she had JUST popped out triplets!

Suriyah


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## Katarina (Oct 25, 2007)

Well, first you have lots and lots of children and you bribe them to go out and check for you


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## Ravens Haven (Oct 26, 2007)

When I notice a doe is thinking about (starting to udder up and such) I keep a close watch not to close but close, when she has really uddered up I will sleep in the barn on a cot with sleeping bag so I can keep a close watch on her, My barn isn't really close to the house so in January it is too cold to keep walking back and forth so I crank up the heater and sleep in the barn, just some insight to my crazy world. Any hoo, last year (i know I am gonna regret saying this) all of my does kidding from 8am-1pm on the nose none in the wee hours at all, TG, 

Autumn


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2007)

I induce all of my does to freshen on the weekends. I also have a barn camera system with 4 cameras and sound so I am able to montitor everything that goes on in the barn. I work 50-60+ hours a week at my 'real' job and can't imagine running to the barn to check on goats all the time!

Sara


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## Chaty (Oct 25, 2007)

My girls get very vocal and want Momma there just in case...only had 1 or 2 that didnt get that way and they had theirs with not a problem...But most of them are real talkers and Yep I watch the udders also and when mine start getting tight I really start watching the backside too and checking ligaments too...


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2007)

Our kid/kidding barn is just outside me back door :lol I also have a barn cam. If a doe is getting close I move her into the a kidding stall at night and keep watch with the barn cam.

Christy


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 27, 2007)

Astronut-1 said:


> Well, first you have lots and lots of children and you bribe them to go out and check for you


This method requires planning years ahead of time.<grin>


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

Here are some signs to watch for:
Udder: It will become noticebly larger within 24 hours of kidding - make a habit of checking that udder each day
Tail Head (part of the spine between the top of hip bones and where the tail joins the body): It will start to hollow out on each side, and if you run your thumb and fingers on either side, from hip to tail, you will find that all the ligaments begin to disappear as labor draws near. It's good to start practicing this by comparing a non-bred doe to a pregnant one. When in labor it usually appears that the tail head is raised upward.
Back Side: As pregnancy progresses the does start "springing" - the vulva area starts to swell and jiggles as they walk. It will be puffy and wrinkley at the same time. When the does are in labor, instead of being swelled outward, it is pulled inward.
The doe will become much thinner looking and flanks will hollow out (unless she's loaded with kids)
Signs of labor: Does usually will hide out or try to get away from the herd. They will do a lot of pawing (actually plowing :lol), stretching, "talking", and as they have contractions, they might stand on tippy toes, hunch up, and will pull their tails over their body. They do a lot of squating, they might pee and they might just squat until the contraction subsides. Sometimes the first sign of not feeling well is that they don't want to eat, but I've had many who ate, munched hay and chewed their cud through the whole ordeal.
Pushing: When they start pushing, you need to watch the time. Don't let hours lapse in this phase. Usually when they really start pushing, they will break a water sack, but sometimes kid, water and all appears first. A normal presentation is 2 front feet, nose will be following on top of front legs. They can kid with one leg back, and hind feet first, but if this is your first kidding and you suspect a malpresentation, get help ASAP.


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## KUrby (Oct 27, 2007)

Thanks KJ Farms!! that was a need to know ordeal there.. :thankyou 
OUr horses do the same thing near the tail head, so I am famaliar with that, but nice to know that the vulva goes in,, that's a new one..

I am thinking about a camera and a baby monitor to listen as I don't think mine have sound. My old ones did, but I got some new ones and will have to check on that..
K


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

You're quite welcome!!! That was really a basic "crash course", but if you've attended births of horses, cows, etc., you'll be fine. Forgot to mention, some does get real lovey, dovey and they really like human company during labor. Not a crowd of people or lots of noise, and dogs really worry them, so make it as stress free as possible!!!! BTW, I've had does that were skittish does and really didn't like human hands on them, but if you were there to help them when they kidded, they became your best friend :biggrin!


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## KUrby (Oct 27, 2007)

I can't wait till April!! They go see there boyfriend tomorrow!!
k


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I start feeding only in the evenings, this way as they go down at 10 pm with their last meal, they have to ruminate through that big rumen full of food before they could kid, this means 99% a born during the day. But I am also a big ligiment girl, I also do cervic checks to see if I have time to run to town, and I have a baby montior I carry with me. I can be sound asleep listening to the girls pregnancy moaning, and it wakes me up from a dead sleep hearing someone pushing...course the same sound is made when they are itching their backside with their big ole pregnancy stomachs.

Karen, the same things in goats and horses, the thurls have to loose their elasticity which means they loose contol over their tail head and their vulva has no muscle tone before they kid. Vicki


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

> I induce all of my does to freshen on the weekends.


 :rofl ME,TOO!!!!!!! I enjoy my nights sleep too well!! I gave up "baby watches" YEARS ago and opted for *DRUGS*!!! 
This way, I get my nights sleep, my morning chores done, MY COFFEE, and I'm there for EVERY birth! With Toggies, there's no way, other than birth collars, to tell who belongs to whom!! I guess I could line all my birthing pens with 2x2 wire...but why?? I'm just there to catch kids, collar them, give them what they need and I'm happy with the results. :biggrin
Kaye


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I'ts just so unnatural, and will lead to hormonal problems!


Sorry having an HT moment  I don't have any idea why I don't do that more! We used to, but it was the opposite, we kidded them out during the week while I was here and not getting ready for or going to a show on the weekend. Vicki


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## Tracy in Idaho (Oct 26, 2007)

Inducing births?! :really :shocked 

Hehe.

Inquiring minds want to know what you're all using --- just lute, lute + dex, or just dex?

Do you find that you do have the --what is it Kaye? -- 10% less milk from inducing?

Tracy


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## KUrby (Oct 27, 2007)

Oh :really I am not too sure about doing drugs!! LOL... I would worry about problems.. anyone have any doing this route?
I think Vicki's route sounds pretty good... but the drugs sound on the money, but I am not too fond of drugs..
Karen


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2007)

I use Lut and Dex both. Never heard about the 10% less milk thing. I guess I don't see a problem with too little milk as we have several ADGA Breed Leaders. 

Sara


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

:rolleyes Oh, brother!!! Vicki!!
Trust me...if there was going to be a problem in...ummmm, let me see.....20 something years, I would have had a problem!

Hhhhmmm...Sara has 3,000+ # milkers, me with several 3,000 # milkers...don't think I miss the 10% decrease in milk.??? :lol

I use 2cc of Lute and 5cc of Dex. Oh, yea...given at the same time. Despite what is posted on groups. The dex helps the kids develop their lung tissue before delivery and seems to help the does.
Kaye


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2007)

Yep. EXACTLY what Kaye said. :biggrin

Glad to hear someone agrees with me! 

Sara


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## KUrby (Oct 27, 2007)

hmm interesting!!
k


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

The only drawback to induced labor.....MAKE ABSOLUTELY SURE you know the breeding dates on your does...either hand bred or AI. No iffy's. Cause that doe IS going to kid in 24-36hrs. from the shots...regardless of her breeding date.

Our way is not recommended for people that run a buck with does, or have buck escapes. I just forget to add that when I am talking about it.
Kaye


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## Tracy in Idaho (Oct 26, 2007)

Kaye White said:


> Hhhhmmm...Sara has 3,000+ # milkers, me with several 3,000 # milkers...don't think I miss the 10% decrease in milk.??? :lol
> Kaye


Well ya know -- #3000 just doesn't cut it around here! :biggrin

Just kiddin' :lol-- but I think on the heavy girls maybe I wouldn't.....especially since we missed #1 by #80 darn pounds! Not that I'm bitter, mind you...ahem.

I doubt I'd notice on a doe like Hallie -- that'd be like what, 6 ounces? :lol

Tracy


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## Corky (Oct 26, 2007)

I don't trust me to know when it is time to give the drugs.

I am afraid that I would cause accidental preemie births.

Baby monitors won't work here cause I don't have nubians.
My girls don't make a sound unless they are in full bore pushing and then it is just grunting.

I have spent many a sleepless night checking on does and have never once had a night birth. almost all late morning to early afternoon kiddings.


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## KUrby (Oct 27, 2007)

Inducing labor...Can you give us details of how, when and why you do this way of kidding... Other than just being there for them births?
Inquiring minds would like to know. The good the bad and the ugly and well the best sides.
Karen


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## Oregonian Chick (Oct 26, 2007)

Well with my girls I tried what Vicki was doing and fed the girls at night. It worked I tell ya! If I remember correctly the majority kidded about 9am or 1pm and I had I think 3 kid in the evening but I was there for them to. Only had one girl of mine kid when I wasn't there in the early morning.

I am doing it again this year also. So out of 16 does kidding out we only had 4 not go in the morning...not bad. I WISH I could lute but alas we have to get lute through a vet and they are VERY stingy about doing that here. Not sure on the dex though.

Justine


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## KUrby (Oct 27, 2007)

I think I will take vickis method this spring.. then we will go from there. I will get a wet buckling from her herd in the spring and then save up for my major buck.... :biggrin I best start saving now from what I hear .. LOL
It may take 2-3 years to pay for that stinker!!(literally) :laughcry
hmmm.. anyone have that long of a payment plan??? :groan :shocked
Vicki has my girls and all is well... I worship the ground Vicki walks on ladies.. she is tha bomb!!
My goats... they think they are ALL that! :goat
(note to members---Karen thinks they are all that) shhhhh don't tell the goats.
K


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## DostThouHaveMilk (Oct 25, 2007)

It is a looooong kidding season here...lol
Mostly ours tend to be bred in groups...separated by at most three weeks to a month...on the short side I will get 3 days.
After Vicki's wonderful knowledge, I feed my does late in the evening. Each doe's ligaments are checked and their udders goosed each time they are fed...my does learn to hate me around that time.
I still end up with midnight kiddings, but taht happens when I miss a feeding.

Our does are wintered in the milking barn (cow). In the winter our milking cows are kept in the barn in their stanchions for their safety and to keep pipes from freezing. It stays around just above freezing temperature wise with that many bodies.
With the cows locked in their stanchions that means they need to be fed everything and kept scraped down. Milking takes about twice as long and there is usually either myself or my father in the barn 20 + hours out of everyday. There may be about 2-3 hours total time when no one is there. We use cell phones to keep in check and always do one last check before the barn is left.
Mostly, I drink a lot of Mt. Dew during kidding season and spend a lot of time at the barn. Which is why I lose a lot of weight in the winter...I don't eat much...

Out of 28 (?) kiddings this past season I missed two kiddings completely and arrived late (missed the first birth, there for the second) for about 3-4 more. I wasn't there for another (I was in KS) but my father was there...that one was a nightmare though.
I knew one of doe was going to kid but I was sooo tired. I went to sleep instead.
One of the does, Kaili, was such a sweetheart. She was due and I knew she was going to kid. I told her to please be patient since I had to go and watch my niece and nephew for three hours. That doe waited until I arrived back at the barn at 4AM (they had been fed around 3AM the morning before) to deliver her triplet bucklings.

I have to be there for each delivery, and with my jobs this past winter I had understanding bosses. Mostly though, the does co-operated.
This year, I have fewer jobs so I am lucky in that respect. I can spend all day sitting and watching goats stretch and tease.
I have over a dozen does due in a two day span on January 25th and 26th...that is going to be one nightmare week.

I have some awesome overalls to keep me warmer this year though....
Good books, good comfy chair to sit in, something to drink and something to munch.
It's a good time. I enjoy it alot, but the recovery can be hard.
I aim to be by each FFs side as they kid. That is my taming time. Those does are my friend forever when I am there by their side through that experience. I, of course, am very aware of the does temperament and will back off if they indicate they aren't comfortable.

Our does run as a large group, are fed clipped individually, and are penned up when they are due to kid and then kept penned with any kids left on them (bucks) for two to five days depending on how well they are bonded.


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## Bella Star (Oct 27, 2007)

For 2 weeks now I have been going out checking a boer doe every 2-3 hrs. , she is uddered up,floppy and elongated vagina ,no ligs,tail straight up over back, she's talking and pawing with some discharge ... then yesterday morning she started streaming  .... this is it !! this is it !! it's time and she was out eating grass talking as she ate .... and then pooooow out came a big ol buck !  then a nice doe  all in the daytime 
She is the only doe we have that eats when she kid's at the same time


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## KUrby (Oct 27, 2007)

Bellestar.. You goatie new you were watching and she held out as long as she could...she didn't fool ya though!! hee hee :crazy
(goat thinking) ..owner is watching and if I keep eating she will walk away..then I can have the kids...NOT!!
Karen


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## Bella Star (Oct 27, 2007)

Karen, I think you are right,she worries a lot. She is also the doe that has her ear torn by our herd dog as the first year she kidded while eating out in the pasture with the herd , she kidded out the first kid and then took her foot and pawed at the kid to get it up as she was afraid of the dogs as we had lost 8 goats to wild dogs before getting the 2 pyrenese dogs and she was horrified by dogs , anyway when the kid started crying from the doe pawing at it, the dog bit her ear as the dog was gonna protect the kid... we got the doe and kid out , patched up the doe's bleeding ear and everything was fine then ... but still everytime she goes to kid , she's up ,walking eating and talking. She just had a B&D sunday and she still wont let the dogs near them and she is a loving sweet doe that the dogs kiss on her but the dogs can only clean those lil goatie butts when she is out away from the kids eating and I LOVE for the dogs to clean butts as the colostrum poops can really clump up on their butts and then I have to wash it off , I LOVE those dogs and clean lil butts :biggrin


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

I feed mine at night too and they kid in the day. I did that raising cattle and began doing it with my goats, knowing they too were ruminants. I rarely have kids born at night this way. Usually late morning/early afternoon.

My does "insist" I be with them at kidding. They have horrible expressions on their faces if I dare to leave them and go to the house for any reason during their labor. There are those who lick my skin off during labor and talk and talk. Like some kind of cud-chewing cats.

I hand breed and know exact due dates and also look back over my last year's records and see what day they kid on...day 149? day 151? They usually kid the same each year. A doe who kids on day 146 in year 1, again on 146 in year 2, will usually not go to 155 on the third year. So I keep tabs on all of that.


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

ozark_jewels said:


> Astronut-1 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, first you have lots and lots of children and you bribe them to go out and check for you
> ...


Some of us more planning than others :blush


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## Good Goats (Oct 26, 2007)

Quote from: Astronut-1 on November 03, 2007, 09:19:24 AM
Well, first you have lots and lots of children and you bribe them to go out and check for you
___
Well I am from a family of 13 and it is usually me or my mom that go out and check on the does


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2007)

I feed my goats at night too. I also feed them in the morning... Those of you talking about night feeding to stave off labor, do you also feed in the morning or just once a day?

Christy


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

As there due dates approach, I make sure that I am putting out their fresh hay in the evenings and the largest feeding of pellets and grain. In the morning they have a feeding but not as heavy and no fresh hay unless it is frighteningly cold (rare). 

That way they are kind of famished (in their minds) and pig out in the evening and go to bed full. You don't starve your goats, just make sure they have aquired an appetite by evening so don't overfeed during the day....they adjust.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Just at night, I refill the alfalfa pellets and give them their grain, and refresh their grass hay. There are always some alfalfa pellets in the feeders, and grass hay and minerals and water always...but that refreshing and their grain really gives them something to ruminant through. Know it certainly works here. And yes in the mornings, they all have their heads in the feeder looking at me all forelonely. Vicki


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2007)

Gotcha! That is pretty much how I have doen it... Refilling at night, but they always have their pellets, hay etc. 

I was pretty lucky last year I had them all kid at good times. I had on midnight kidder and I sold her. I think she kidded at a good time for her new owner--go figure


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

Feral Nature said:


> I hand breed and know exact due dates and also look back over my last year's records and see what day they kid on...day 149? day 151? They usually kid the same each year. A doe who kids on day 146 in year 1, again on 146 in year 2, will usually not go to 155 on the third year. So I keep tabs on all of that.


Oh, and this may have saved a doe this year. She was past "her" due date and was pushing her hind end against a fence post all day. She was just behaving oddly. Seemed to be laboring but not...just weird behavior. I decided to go in and check and she had a kid presented with it's back against the cervix. It was a difficult malpresentation to fix but she did eventually deliver 2 doelings that were fine, but assitance required.

Had I not known that this doe kidded on a certain day and that she was going past it, she and the kids may have died before I knew what happened as her signs of distress were subtle.


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## KUrby (Oct 27, 2007)

Lot's of good reading here. I just love this site.. Ya'll are the most friendly people on a forum.. No tearing each other up, no back stabbing, at least on the forum.. :biggrin
That's why I will continue to be an active participant on this board..
Thank ya'll for being so nice and civil to newbies and current members alike. :thankyou
Sincerely
Karen


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## Corky (Oct 26, 2007)

:goat

Yep, KUrby, this is a great place to be.
If it sounds like we are squabbling sometimes it is in fun.

We do tease each other from time to time. :biggrin


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## Corky (Oct 26, 2007)

:lol it seems I left the comma out of the last post.
It depends on where I put it as to what the meaning is.... hummmm...
I think I will just leave it out and you can put it where you think it should go in your own minds. :biggrin
:rofl :rofl:rofl


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## KUrby (Oct 27, 2007)

Teasing is just fine it's the down right meaness and rudeness I don't tolerate.. Ya'll are fun.. I likey these goatie people.. :biggrin
k


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

yes, sometimes if we didn't laugh we would cry....and there has been many a time we come here to cry, I know I have...a great support system here when NOBODY else would understand.


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