# 911 possible udder prb gangrene?



## SherrieC (Oct 26, 2007)

A first freshener was Kicking like the devil. I got her udder milked out, and then when I could see her teats as they were a little close to the leg when I first started. She has what I think is frostbite. I'll go get a photo in a min. its is angry RED Chapped looking just the left Teat but both of her teats are very swollen, they were swollen yesterday also, but I just thought Hormonal? as her whole udder is very edemic?(sp) She did have two lysignin shots, first shot of Lysignin was on 12/30 I cant remember for sure what day the second but all Maidens goat their second shot this weekend. 5 cc's. Today I gave her 1/2 cc of oxytocin, and 1 cc of Benamine as she's in pain. 
If it is gangrene (i'll be back in with temp and photo) I'll need a list of Meds to take with her I'm going to SEE if the Vet will Look at a goat, if not maybe he'll let me buy the meds. and what if its frostbite? 
Darn shame too, this is one of our High appraising LA babies, with a gorgeous showable udder. I am Swamped literally 5 does kidded yesterday I'm ht 2 gals of columstrom.


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2009)

What's red? The teats/udder or the milk?

Are you that cold there? I haven't ever had frostbite on any goats and we have been -30 for almost 2 weeks.

Sara


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2009)

Was there any gas in the udder? Gangren mastsis always has gas in the udder. Since its the methane that the bacteria produses. What to me it sounds like it you have a case of frostbite. Since, both teats are swollwen and not the udder. With frostbite...you have two options...you can try to save the teats...which takes forever and a day. Or cut your losses now.


Ken


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## SherrieC (Oct 26, 2007)

http://bryrpatch.com/Rhythm.htm
photo's at bottom Temp 102.4 brb Nikki's crowning


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## SherrieC (Oct 26, 2007)

Just fresh as of yesterday, it never got colder then -23 but, I think I did NOT have her dried off good yesterday, as Kissie was kidding at the same time. and I was in a hurry. No blood in milk, Her teats feel just like a frost bitten ear "thick," Her temp Normal
Ken gas in the udder? how would I know? would it bubble? I've not ever dealt with either situation. Poor baby If I caused this Shame on Me!! what is the treatment? As I'ld rather go that route. If that doesn't cut your losses involves green bands, correct.


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## SherrieC (Oct 26, 2007)




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## Guest (Jan 21, 2009)

You would know if there was gas in the udder. Ner milk is normal, as is her temp so I am going to agree with Ken. It looks like frostbite to me.

Sara


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## SherrieC (Oct 26, 2007)

oh no my poor baby. It was swollen the first time I milked her but Not red.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

are you milking her by machine if so then just milk her by hand not sure what you do for frostbite.


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## Ravens Haven (Oct 26, 2007)

Did you use Fightbac on her?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Obviously I have no idea how to treat frostbite  But you can also think about mechanically taking the milk out of the udder with catheters, so the teat can heal, as long as you are super clean you can do it for weeks. There are even indwelling bees waxs ones you can insert and have them wear so the teat does not close down into itself. Vicki


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## [email protected] (Oct 26, 2007)

Just musing here, but frostbite is healed mostly through time as the layers of the skin die and then shed away. I have to go herbal here, since I don't know of any treatments...I know of two things that are very good for skin healing and that would vit e and comfrey. Perhaps a poultice would be in order. I would also watch out for infection around the area. Frostbite is supposed to be very painful. Perhaps you could be prepared with some banamine as a just in case. Also, since her udder skin is compromised I would watch out for mastitis. If you can't squeeze her udder, maybe an udderly ez thing might help you. Wish I could help you more, but obviously have no experience.


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## dq (Aug 15, 2008)

SherrieC said:


> cut your losses involves green bands, correct.


does this mean amputation of the teat with a castration band? just wondering for future reference.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

yep that is what that means but boy I would try to save this doe and use Vicki's idea of candula's and also Jo use of comphrey Aloe Vera gel would work great for this as it is not only healing but helps with pain If it blisters don't break them if possible. This is recommended for people with frostbite.


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## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

Hope she heals up ok. Never had to deal with frostbite before, so I can't be of any help.


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2009)

Frostbite is a PAIN to treat. It will take about a month till they are feeling comfortable. You can get them though it, its just a HARD rocky road and hope you plan on using drugs. 

First off....keep milking her no matter how much she will kick, scream, bite, and run from you. That keeps the tissue in flexable. If you go the milk tube route, then all you are doing is opening the mammary to infection. These can be done....IF you know how to insert them and you are as clean as the Pope. I never use a milk tube over a few times. Since there is a good chance that you can ruin the teat canel.

You will need to keep the teats OUT of the wind at all times. I just use vet wrap and gauze at every milking. First put a VERY large amount of Triple antibotic salve on the teats. Then, wrap the gauze around it them apply the vet wrap. Making sure you cover the whole teat. But, not so tight that it will harm the teats.

At about a week...the red will turn to a black tissue scab thing. At that point, when you see ANY of the scab starting to come away you will to remove the scab. That is your first layer of skin that has died. All mammals have 7 layers of skin. So, guess what...you will be pulling off more scabs later.

After the first scab removal you will need to treat for mastisis. Yes, I know she will not look like she has it. But, trust me, treat for it. Since, at one point or another she will break with it. Just better to deal with it now, than later.

As all this is going on in her life...she will say...i dont want to milk anymore. SO, you will be fighting with her to keep her milking. Most of the time, they will dry themselves up. But, you will need to keep acting like you are milking her, and the twice aday treatments. Then, if you are lucky she will not get mammalist(sp) what most dairy people called udder pox. That will be after you have treated her for some time there will be yet another black scab come up just on the teat ends. Then go up the teat to the base, then you have to start all over again with treatments.

Most dairies if they get frozen teat ends. They take a HARD look at the animal and see if it is worth all the time and money that it takes to get them over it. As you will loose this years production, and maybe next years as they will not be to hot on the idea of being milked. And if you are lucky you will not loose a side of the udder due to mastisis.

Call around to EVERYONE you know that has dairies and see if you can not get your hands on some Novasan udder cream. It was taken off the market years ago, but, I do know some is still floating around out there. That was the best stuff for things like this. Once it was taken off the market we said its not worth the time to deal with it. As you can milk a bunch of other girls just in the amount of time that it will take to get her back to normal.

Ken


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## shawhee (Jun 28, 2008)

I have a question - this may sound silly but here goes. If this is frostbite then why do the teat ends look semi normal? I have seen frostbite on fingers and toes (thanks to living in Alaska). It is usually down to the very end of the extremity. Why is the reddened portion up above the tip of the teat and more to the front inside rather than the outside and back where you would think that the wind might have affected it worse? Is there any other possibility? Just curious?

Shawna


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## Tracy in Idaho (Oct 26, 2007)

Sherrie - I'm going to throw out another idea. I'm not totally convinced it's frostbite. In our years of hitting -50 F, I've never gotten frostbite. I'm wondering if it's just not her stomping on herself when she gets up? OR, another goat stepped on that one teat to make it look so bad?


Those FFs can be really hard on themselves until they learn to manuever around a full udder. Have you seen her chewing on them at all? I had one that wouldn't "nurse" but she would chew on her teat when she first freshened -- up in the middle of the teat like. It looked an awful lot like your girl's.

Has it changed at all?


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## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

What about it getting frostbite if it wasn't dried off good? Sherrie said she might not have got it dried off because of another goat kidding at the same time...
If they normally don't get frostbite in cold weather, would the teats being wet or a little wet have anything to do with it??

Just wondering for future reference. I'm sure I'll be milking in the winter eventually!


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

This looks just like the doe my grandpa had. She freshened and her teats was inflamed. She wouldn't let her buckling nurse. At first we milked her (which was a horrible ordeal with her fighting as it hurt) and were putting it in the bottle for the baby. One teat was worse than the other. The better teat healed ok, but the other teat was very red at first but then the skin became leathery and the whole thing was a scab. Anyway, we finally (after a couple days) got smart and got a catheter and would use some vaseline to insert it and just drain the milk out. This was MUCH easier on the doe and finally allowed it to heal, the outter part of the teat fell off after a while, like a ring. She eventually ended up with one side that basically didn't work. But we really didn't know what we were doing, and I know if we had just never milked her to begin with, it would have probably healed better. It wasn't my doe and I was going over there twice a day to help.


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## SherrieC (Oct 26, 2007)

Hello, taking a quick lunch break here : ) I think Maybe Tracy's Right. It doesn't look worse, it does seem to have a hoof print on it. 
Ken if I did need a cannule. I have plenty of experience with that having a saanen doe almost deglove a teat here. We super glued it back on. I keep on hand a box of Disposable Cannules for just such an emergency. I had to drain her for two weeks. Cleanliness is a MUST. 
thank you for your detailed answer on what to do. I'm going to print that out, just in case it is frostbite, and save it in case I ever have a case of it.

Prevention for frost bite, since we have been dealing with real cold temps here. and Sara and Tracy are more used to it maybe their barns are less "drafty"
#1 Deep Bedding
# 2 Clean Udders
# 3 good teat care while your milking like (drying) dipping lol!
Reasons for frostbite
wet frozen bedding
wet teats, 
or what she had very swollen teats such as in a first freshener.
but I think it's just stepped on . I'm keeping an eye on it. 
Frostbite is MOST comon in a first freshening animal who has just freshened, in temps under 20 usually. 

I have some nfz nitrofurazone

I am giving her 1.5 cc of Dex, and .25 cc oxytocin, to help with her edema. 
Benadine for the pain. Milking her gently, cleanly, drying well. Putting Shea butter on it, and looking for the comfrey.
keeping an eye on her temp, as even if it is just stepped on she may develope mastitis. 
Milk Still no blood.


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## ChickenMom (Nov 1, 2007)

Colloidal silver is good internally and externally.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

yes CS is good and I use it all the time however be careful of how much internally. I still would use aloe on her teats. Tho shea is wonderful Aloe is better for healing and pain.


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