# Starting a new grade A goat dairy



## Daniel Babcock (May 28, 2008)

I have an investor that sought me out and is interested in starting and financing a goat dairy. He has contacts with a regional grocery store association, land and capital to get us started. 

I will be meeting on Tuesday with a State Agricultural rep to get some additional information on what is needed, however I like to be prepared and would love recommendations from the good folks on this forum.

Primarily, what I am looking for, is what equipment is needed to start a goat dairy. We are looking to grow the dairy over time, but have the opportunity to immediately pick up 30 acres, a 6500 sq ft building w 3 phase power (we would live in it and use a portion of it for the parlor/processing facility.)

So with that small background . . . What do I need?


----------



## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

Find out who your State Inspector is going to be and visit the dairy site with him her, they can tell you exactly what's required. Also, online you should be able to find your state's requirements for a Grade A dairy facility, read that well before you meet with your inspector so you know what you are talking about. Visit a few Grade A dairies. 

There's a lot of stuff you need, LOADS of stuff, but what's most important is that your inspector is happy with your plans. Just a list off the top of my head: Bulk tank, milk lines/pails, vaccuum pump, stainless steel sinks, handwash sink, light sources according to your State requirements, concrete floors, light colored washable walls, metal stands or concrete pit-style parlor, strainer (if you milk in pails), WELL working drains, and where they go depends again on your State regulations, a driveway that allows a milk truck to get to your bulk tank, wow this list is not complete I'm sure, but it's something to start with!

Good luck, it sounds like you are incredibly lucky, so prepare well and go see some successful dairies and ask many questions: once your facility is built, you're stuck with it.


----------



## Daniel Babcock (May 28, 2008)

I am anxious for the visit with the inspector! I have a copy of the requirements. There is literally a book full of information. 

Thanks


----------



## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

How exciting! When is the visit, Daniel?


----------



## Bernice (Apr 2, 2009)

You are blessed with such wonderful and unique opportunity! Will you be bottling milk, making cheese, yogurt, butter, etc? Or all of those? What equipment you will need will depend on what you are planning on doing. A big commercial pasteurizer will be in order along with a pipeline, a milking parlor set up of some sort, tanks for storing milk, lots of stainless stell as in sinks, counters, etc., piping, pumps, feeders, and so forth. You will also need to pay attention to details with your barn design. You want an easy and a clean entrance to your milking parlor. I recommend the path ion be inside, it's a lot cleaner. You could get by with a roofed overhang. Other considerations would be getting yourself the best and highest producing milkers you can afford. Don't do as a lot of producers we knew who would keep a doe who milked a cup of milk a day because she had good genes and it was milk! With the cost of feed, and especially right now, a dairy cannot afford to keep anything milking less that a gallon a day. You will do better with herd management if you have a smaller herd of higher milk producing does. 

Also.....other considerations: when it comes to management, labor....will it be just you or will you have to hire help? This will be your biggest stress, finding good help to work with you. In our venture we lived in a remote rural area where people really didn't want to work, but they would trade work for cigarettes and booze! You need people to work that will be dependable and trustworthy. Labor management will make you or break you. We once hired a young man who was a hard worker, good employee, but when he got his first check he drank...end of employee. The trending model other diaries had at the time was to find people down on their luck and start a commune type approach.....that didn't work for them either. As I said, the labor will be your biggest challenge. 

I've personally been down the road of starting a Grade A Dairy (there are a few others on here who have Grade A Dairies as well) and will say the most challenging aspect is wading through the regs and balancing the regs with what you are doing. Once you jump that hurdle all else won't be as bad except for the labor as i mentioned. 

Best of luck to you and keep us posted!


----------



## Daniel Babcock (May 28, 2008)

I will be meeting with the inspector tomorrow.

We would like to bottle milk, make cheese, yogurt etc. I guess time will tell. With the 30 acres at our disposal, we really like the idea of having a dairy and using the land for a CSA project much like the one contained in this link http://www.quailhollowfarmcsa.com/2.html.

We are still quite early in our planning stage, however our hopes are high!


----------



## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

The equipment you need for bottling milk is totally different from cheese/yoghurt making equipment. You may want to pick one first, otherwise your processing plant will be very expensive.


----------



## nightskyfarm (Sep 7, 2009)

So many things I would have done differently if I had the chance. Advice: do not rush. Read all the regs inside and out: twice. Look for used equipment well in advance of needing it. Research other dairies to gain knowledge and a different perspective. Highest costs at this time for me are feed, packaging and fuel. I had goats for 20 years and thought I knew enough when I started..... I was dead wrong! Commercial and all it's implications is far removed from a hobby. Biggest obstacles are the now active, truly active FDA and your state agencies. That Farm Safety Bill really went to their heads. If you need to ask questions feel free to message me.


----------



## Daniel Babcock (May 28, 2008)

Thanks Jenifer! There is only one other goat Dairy here in Utah and we are planning on going and visiting them. I love what you are doing with your CSA! We would like to follow a similar model.

The one thing I do not look forward to is the bureaucratic headache. 

I plan on growing our own alfalfa hopefully alleviating some of the feed expense. 

I just started getting bids for a barn. I am looking at a 60'X120' barn with 20' ceilings, this way I can add a second floor with rooms later. One of my challenges is trying to decide the best way to house 50 goats. We get sub zero temps here and many feet of snow I have always housed my goats in a fully enclosed barn, the bedding has been a real challenge for me. Mucking out the stalls in the middle of winter or early spring is not easy! 

Maybe I should do a barn and also a separate loafing shed for feeding

I will have to add a tractor to the list of equipment. 

I anticipate that 50 is the most milkers we will have, plus kids and bucks.


----------



## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

If your barn floor is made out of dirt, you can make pens with regular t-posts and cattle panels/other fencing material. Then, when it is time to come through with the tractor, it is easier to move everything than with stalls.

We live in basically the same climate (though it sounds like you get more snow) and my goats have access to the outside year 'round. They will usually be snobby right after a storm and don't want to go outside much, but you can shovel them some paths. When I first got goats, I lived in Jackson Hole, so you can imagine the amount of snow we had there! We did a little shoveling, but for the most part, our (small-Nigerian dwarf) goats trampled their own paths and went in and out as they pleased.


----------



## Daniel Babcock (May 28, 2008)

Nancy what do you do for housing? How many goats do you have?


----------



## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

Never clean out your barn in the middle of winter. Only clean barn in spring and fall. After fall cleaning, put a good layer of lime on the floor and a good layer of bedding. From then on add bedding as needed to keep the goats comfy and DRY and the pack will actually help the goats stay warm through the winter. It's what I do here in MI and it works great.

60x120 is nice and roomy for 50 does. I feed in the barn in feed throughs in the alley. The does can go outside into the pasture if the weather is nice, it's their choice, unless the wind howls: then I close the doors.... I have had up to 26 does in one pen (that's how many feeding slots I have at the feed through) and that worked fine. Right now I have about 40 does/yearlings in my 50x90 barn, plus hay, plus a parlor/milkroom/equipment room, plus a kid pen with 19 kids. You should be good with your barn size!


----------



## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

Daniel - you may want to consider purchasing some calf huts. Up to 6 does can easily fit into those, and they are warm. Better yet - you don't have to clean them. Just move them and rebed the hut. A combo of those with a nice wide lean-to (think bobcat with grapple for cleaning) may just fit the bill.


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

So saying you will have 50 goats- you mean 50 does in the milk string? If so
that means with yearling replacements/additions and kids waiting to be sold must be housed as well you could at any one time have as many as 200 animals to house ....just sayin... :biggrin


----------



## Daniel Babcock (May 28, 2008)

Lee

Yes the most I ever plan on having is 50 does within the milk string. But we will slowly work our way up to that amount. I anticipate it will take us 3 years or so to get there. I hope we don't have 200+ goats. The most I ever hope to have is 100 and even that seems an awful lot :crazy!

Camille

I like the calf hutch idea, particularly as we plan on using rotational grazing to supplement the highest quality alfalfa we can get. Having not used them before, I worry about my bossy girls taking over the hutches and leaving others in the cold . . . How do you more the hutches, I gather they are around 90 pounds? The loafing shed/lean to is also an idea I have considered however I do worry about snow, wind and cold. I am always looking for ideas to simplify the clean up of bedding material in the barns. How do you use the grappling attachment?

These are great ideas thanks!


----------



## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

Calf hutches work very well for dairy goats, I still use them too, for part of my herd. Yes, the top goats get their pick, but the rest figures it out, and I never have a doe left out in the rain or cold. I use 1 hutch/4 does as a guideline if they're full grown does. Moving the hutches a little ways (just to a clean spot in the pasture) I do 'by back', in other words, I get in it, get up and turtle carry it to the new spot. Yah, not a perfect system, but I'm usually by myself and it works for me (although not always for my back). Longer distances (say from pasture to pasture): I'd say the easiest is two people and a flat wagon behind truck or tractor. In the winter I DO use a good layer of straw bedding in the hutches, which I clean out of the pastures in the spring.

The one thing I would worry about with housing milking does outside if it's very cold, is that you'd run the risk of frozen teats if you sent them off into a howling freezing wind with wet (dipped) teats after milking. Even with hutches, they'd still have to walk there. You'd have to not dip, or dip, wait and dry off, I guess. I keep my milkers in the barn in the winter for that reason. It gives them more exercise, too, in large pens like mine, since goats are, in my opinion, a bit wimpy and would hover in their hutches all day on rainy days, or when it's very cold. Other than that, I have very good experience with calf hutches for calves AND goats: they stay healthy!

Check your numbers: with 50 does milking you WILL have more than 100 animals!


----------



## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

Pretty much what Trysta said. The goats figure out how to distribute themselves - course, I am working with Saanens, so not sure about all the other breeds.

We move the huts by going inside and pressing our heads up into the top of the dome (need a hat - sometimes there is a little knobby thing up there!) and then "walk" the dome to its' new position. You end up looking like a walking bell, LOL.

Bobcat with grapple? It just goes in and scoops up a big ol' pile of straw/poop/hay and then you close down the top part of the grapple. It moves about the equivalent of 6-8 wheelbarrows of mulch at a time (our bobcat is not real big, but it sure is handy and saves so much back breaking work). My DH has also gotten a snow blowing attachment for the bobcat and that is awesome in the winter. Get your investor to buy you a Bobcat! BTW, DH designed the lean-tos/barns for ease of cleaning with the bobcat. You still have to rake/pitchfork the edges, but sure saves your back and your time. Oh, and we also just clean up the "piles" from the polydomes/calf huts in the late spring. Bobcat and grapple do that too.


----------



## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Daniel Babcock Ut LaManchas said:


> Nancy what do you do for housing? How many goats do you have?


I only have a few goats, right now 9 does total. So, you would need something bigger, or more than one, but it would be the same concept. I use a quonset hut, one side is the shop, which has a concrete floor, and the other side is the goat side, which is fenced off from the shop, but at some point we will install a door between them. The quonset is enclosed on three sides, and on the East side is the goat side, which is partially enclosed...there is an opening that would fit a tractor or backhoe, and that is where the goats go in and out. The east side also has a large hill nearby, that probably helps to block the wind. It is well ventilated being open like that.

As far as freezing teats go, you could keep them inside until they dry, or use a spray like fight-bac instead. I don't even dip my goats teats and have never had a problem with mastitis. But, I am milking by hand, so perhaps a machine is more likely to cause mastitis. I wash before milking for sanitation, but I personally feel like putting something on might lead to resistant bacteria. I do like to keep them standing for at least a few minutes after milking to make sure the teat canal closes. What I usually do is to have two come to the stand at a time. After the first one is done milking, she has to stand while waiting for me to finish with the second, and the second waits while I filter milk...or I sometimes I let go the first and bring in the next, and the second waits while I milk her. I also feed them a hay after milking to keep them standing while they eat.


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

> so perhaps a machine is more likely to cause mastitis.


Definitely not. :naughty Tis the milker and not the machine- hygiene is important regardless of how the milk is extracted but beyond following a rigid procedure for prep and clean up the most important factor for avoiding mastitis is the state of the immune function of your milkers. Mastitis always follows a dip in immunity that allows already resident bacteria that are around day in and day out to overgrow beyond the defenses of the animal causing infection. Being aware of what could be affecting immunity will go a long way to keeping mammary infection at bay.

Lee


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Daniel we don't have your cold but I have to say the best thing we did on our barn was a huge overhang covering a loafing space divided for age groups or does with their respective bucks. We did this because when we built our barn it was common for us to have 3 day monsoon rains in spring and fall. And like Camille said- cleanable by tractor. If you can face your loafing shed away from your incoming weather it is a great addition to confinement management. We face east since our weather comes from the west and so the loafing area gets the morning sun and it is great for basking on those chilly morns. 

Keep in mind separations for different age groups. You won't get your doelings raised up to potential if they have to compete with the milkers for chow. And unless your kid sales are super early and super brisk you will have younger stock hanging about Let us know what you design! 
Lee


----------



## Daniel Babcock (May 28, 2008)

Great idea with the overhang Lee. I spoke with the contractor who figured in a 15X50 foot overhang into the barn. I am waiting for prices.

I just finished my meeting with the state milk inspector. I will be honest in saying that I really worried that it would be a bureaucratic nightmare, however the inspector is going to be fantastic. He was very helpful and is willing to be a resource to us as we get things set up.

Camille is this the type of grapple you are talking about http://www.skidsteersolutions.com/Skid_Steer_Grapples_Demolition_s/33.htm#

I have to decide whether to get a bobcat or a tractor. It would be nice to have a backhoe for work around the farm. One more decision to weigh out.

Camille, Lee and others I would really appreciate seeing pictures of your barns lean to's etc. It would help immensely. If you can email them to me I will get them posted in this thread.

Thanks again everyone
!


----------



## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

I don't know about all tractors, but the little one my mother-in-law has, you can add or remove attachments. There is a backhoe attachment for it.


----------



## MayLOC (Oct 26, 2007)

yes, they have backhoes for skidloaders /bobcats, etc. We have one at one of our ranches. The other ranch we have a skid loader and a seperate backhoe. We sold the tractors few years ago. Load and unload big bales and round bales and dig up pipelines and clean out sheds.... skid loaders are much more versatile with their size. We also constructed our goat sheds to allow for doors big enough to open and let the skid loader in to clean. Have always wondered if those calf huts would withstand very much wind. Do you tie them down? How many mile per hour wind can they hold up to?


----------



## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

Daniel Babcock Ut LaManchas said:


> Great idea with the overhang Lee. I spoke with the contractor who figured in a 15X50 foot overhang into the barn. I am waiting for prices.
> 
> I just finished my meeting with the state milk inspector. I will be honest in saying that I really worried that it would be a bureaucratic nightmare, however the inspector is going to be fantastic. He was very helpful and is willing to be a resource to us as we get things set up.
> 
> ...


Hi Daniel,

No, our is more like a tine grapple. Ours has 20 teeth (where theirs has 10) and our top grapple part (which I call the clomper) has 4 teeth, rather than being solid.

Like the utility grapple pictured here: http://www.bobcat.com/attachments/grapples-loader_toolcat#Farm

We do have a tractor, but we could live without the tractor, but the bobcat is truly priceless. In addition to its' many other duties, we also use it to put hay up - my amazing husband built a platform that goes on the forks of the bobcat that allows us to load 8-10 bales of hay on it and then lift it up to the loft (we don't need a hay elevator) and then we stack from there. They (DH and DC) can unload 6 tons of hay in record time. We also love the manueverability of the Bobcat.

Pictures - well, I'll see what I can do in the next few days - ours are 14 feet wide, (one on each side of the barn) with the middle section 22 feet wide. We also use Sydell type panels to make portable kidding pens (this for the Boers, not the Saanens, but if I had 50 Saanens, would surely need this system!) in the middle of the barn under the loft area. Local man made many of our panels (longer than the Sydells) for a very fair price. You could probably find someone like that too.

BTW, my DH uses the Bobcat for his business as well, for digging holes for pole barns (has an attachment for that too).


----------



## MayLOC (Oct 26, 2007)

wheytogosaanens said:


> BTW, my DH uses the Bobcat for his business as well, for digging holes for pole barns (has an attachment for that too).


oh my, how could I have forgotten the oh-so-important post hole digger attatchment! :lol


----------



## Daniel Babcock (May 28, 2008)

I rented a bobcat with a breaker to demolish our swimming pool earlier this year. I really like the maneuverability and all of the available attachments seem so practical (don't get me started on cool tools and gadgets) decisions decisions.


----------



## Daniel Babcock (May 28, 2008)

Camille-

Do you prefer the Sydell type panels over a cattle panel the 11 line 17' X 48" 11 gauge type? I can purchase these for $21.00 each and they can be cut by an angle grinder to size???


----------



## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

Not sure what the 11 line panel is - but 17' is much bigger than a Sydell-type panel. Our panels are 6' long and about 3 feet high ( I can stand on the bottom rung and swing my leg over to enter the pen). They are connected by a long rod that goes through rings that are welded on the side. You can make the pen 6 X 6 or 6 X 12 etc. One panel becomes the next pens' side etc (in other words they all can hook together.) so you don't waste space or panels. When you are done kidding, disassemble the panels and hang on two bicycle hooks at the back of the barn. Nice and tidy, easy to get to, but out of the way until you need them. Our younger boys can assemble these pens for me by themselves (10 yrs and up).

Oh and I like the fact they are short enough to climb into the pen without having to open the gate - sometimes my hands are full.  The stock panels are squares, whereas the Sydell type panels are just rails running horizontally. 
More like this: The 120A one: 
http://www.sydell.com/products.asp?id=47&title=Lambing & Kidding Pen Systems

Wow - those units are pricey! You might try to see if you can find someone who can weld some panels for you (of course, we bought ours about 6 years ago so my idea of price is probably archaic by now!).


----------



## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

MayLOC said:


> Have always wondered if those calf huts would withstand very much wind. Do you tie them down? How many mile per hour wind can they hold up to?


I always make sure my huts are standing with their backs to the predominant wind direction and they seldom blow over. It happens sometimes though. Had a tornado come close by once and it picked up one hutch and threw it in our (cow manure) lagoon about 80 yards away. Fun job getting that one out.... Anyway, there are hutches with a tie-up system, where the animal is tied to the hut, and after a bad experience with wooden hutches like that in TX, I never tie an animal to a hut anymore!



fmg said:


> Daniel Babcock Ut LaManchas said:
> 
> 
> > I don't even dip my goats teats and have never had a problem with mastitis. But, I am milking by hand, so perhaps a machine is more likely to cause mastitis. I wash before milking for sanitation, but I personally feel like putting something on might lead to resistant bacteria.
> ...


----------



## Tracy in Idaho (Oct 26, 2007)

I would bet money we get colder than you here -- and my barn is open to the south ;-) I also utilize a barnpack -- clean the barn in the spring and fall only. 

I use a powdered teat dip in the winter -- it looks like baby powder, and is a chlorahexadine based powder. Had great SCC using it, and no cold teats.

We also have a skid steer that we use to clean out the barn -- MUCH more manuverable than a tractor - and we have a snowblower attachment too.


----------



## Daniel Babcock (May 28, 2008)

Camille-

The cattle panel I am refering to is like this one:

https://a248.e.akamai.net/f/248/9086/10h/origin-d5.scene7.com/is/image/TractorSupplyCompany/3502077?$cm%5Fio$

I am able to purchase them for $21 in 16 foot lengths, you can't step over them as easily, and they are not free standing (you must use t-posts) but they still have a lot of utility and function, and as I stated before can be cut into shorter lengths with a bolt cutter of angle grinder.


----------



## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

Daniel,
We use ones like your TSC example in our kidding barn. You use T post. Ours are for pigs or shorter animals and work fine - tall folks can step over them but I have too short a stride to do that so gates are necessary for me.


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Gates are easy - just cut the size you need off the panel and then attach it back with ring clamps.
Super quick- super easy.
L


----------



## Daniel Babcock (May 28, 2008)

Tracey- 

Where do you get the chlorahexadine powder?

Lee, I use the rings for gates as well. How do you fasten them? I typically twist wire around a carabiner and fasten it to the fence.


----------



## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Wow, how in the world can you keep a goat in a fence that a person can step over?

I use panels with caribeener type clips for gates. Overlap the gate with the next panel a little so there is something to clip it to.


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

We use clips like for leads and ziptie them to the metal rod at the edge of the gate so they are always where you expect them to be.


----------



## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

Daniel Babcock Ut LaManchas said:


> Camille-
> 
> The cattle panel I am refering to is like this one:
> 
> ...


Okay - that looks like what we call a pig panel (smaller squares at the bottom). I think it depends on how you want to use it and how much space you can allocate. We don't want T-posts in the barn, so love the Sydell type panels that we use. Just like the flexibility and multi - use that they provide. We also use them when attending shows where you can pen off of your trailer or for appraisal, etc etc.

And we have had one goat early in our goat careers get snagged on those little edges left over from cutting panels - what an ugly mess (had to shoot the poor thing). So I am a big baby and want everything smooth (plus I have children who can rip out the seat of their pants in no time flat on those panels as well!

Our Boers aren't inclined to jump - in fact neither are Saanens. Especially when they are heavily bred. :biggrin So really not an issue for us.

Yes, Tracy, we want to know what this powder is called and where you get it!


----------



## lorit (May 10, 2010)

I want to know about the powder too - my girls hate cold teat dip.


----------



## Tracy in Idaho (Oct 26, 2007)

My "local" dairy supply place where I get all my stuff has it -- it is an IBA product - Derma Soft n' Dry.

I imagine most companies have their own version. 

If you have cow dairies in your area, then you have a dairy supply place somewhere.


----------



## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

I was looking into the powdered teat dip thing...seems like a great idea. Based on what I found, it's probably important to find a chlorhexidine-based one, testing found an iodine based one not as effective as regular teat dip in preventing mastitis (though the powdered teat dip concept appears to be good for their poor cold teats!):



> Winter evaluation of a postmilking powdered teat dip.
> Goldberg JJ, Murdough PA, Howard AB, Drechsler PA, Pankey JW, Ledbetter GA, Day LL, Day JD.
> Source
> 
> ...


----------



## Daniel Babcock (May 28, 2008)

Great info! thanks Stacey.


----------



## Tracy in Idaho (Oct 26, 2007)

I've never seen an iodine based powdered dip here. My herd's SCC counts were consistent with liquid iodine dip while I was using the powder. 

It actually blocks the teat canal, so I like that little bit of extra assurance too.


----------

