# line breeding



## green farm girl (May 24, 2012)

We just successfully completed our 2nd year of kidding and got our first doelings. (only 2 bucklings last year) This question is early planning for next year. We have Nubians by the way. First I would like to know people's feelings about when it is safe and appropriate to breed for the first time. My main reason for breeding at this time in my life is for my children to have wethers for the fair. Our fair is in Sept. and we kid in January for that purpose. Last year we started breeding in August, with kids coming early Feb to mid Feb. 
The next question is can I use the father of this year's doelings as the buck for them when we breed? Is this what is called "line breeding", or is this too close of a breeding line for them?


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## Tracer (Mar 7, 2013)

It is line breeding but always remember this it's linebreeding when it works but it is inbreeding when things go wrong. The goal of linebreeding is to Bring all the good traits in a certain line to the for front. But just like anything genetic it's kind of a dice throw you may highlight all of the bad traits instead. Me personally I don't like it I've seen many great cattle herds ruined because of linebreeding.


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

I prefer to keep two (or six, lol) bucks and trade off. Breed grandfathers to granddaughters. But if I was really found of my buck, I'd try it. Remember you aren't just concentrating the good; you are also concentrating the bad. So if my buck is way better than my does, then it might work well.


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## green farm girl (May 24, 2012)

remember I said our purpose is fair goats at this time...our two bucklings last year gave us a grand champion as well as a first in the weight class just below the grand. So from what you are saying, looks like we will give it a try. What is left to be determined is what kind of milkers these two girls will be, and consequently those after them. We aren't in it for the money, and everything I do with my goats I count as a learning experience, so guess I will try it.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

The doelings can be bred when they are 8 or 9 months and at least 100 lbs.


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## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

For your purpose, breeding this kid back to her sire might be all right. When breeding this close there are many things that can go wrong. You can accentuate a fault or even lose vigor in growth and weight gain and general thriftiness. That's why outcrosses will produce a hybrid vigor when crossing breeds and breeding out of family lines within the same breed can sometimes have similar results. 

Generally speaking, you don't want to line breed for the sake of linebreeding. You want to line breed on superior animals.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Your main criteria for judgement should be ~
Do you LOVE everything about the dam of your buck?
Do you want to compound everything about her into the next generation?
Your buck himself is irrelevant in your doelings- do you love the dam of your buck?
Lee


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

I think if I were you, and not interested in keeping kids for breeding, just for fair, I'd look into getting a boer buck (or at least service from a boer-and do driveway breeding- if you can't find a clean herd). The boerx will be more meaty, and they will grow and grow on all the milk a dairy goat produces.


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

Then the girls could be sold for meat too. Around here they tell me there is a demand for NubianBoer cross does too.


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## green farm girl (May 24, 2012)

If I have any boer in them they have to show with the full blood boers. Dairy have to be full dairy. If I cross them with a boer then I would actaully be going down because my nubians crossed with the boer would not show as meaty as the full boer. 
I have no clue about the dam of my buck as we kind of happened upon our buck our first year with goats. He was a fair goat left over who was born late and no one wanted him so we took him for $40. I love him! We didn't wether him (as we found out later was supposed to be the agreement when we purchased him...) I don't know who the breeder was or who his parents are, I was just told by our leaders later on that we had a really good buck. And I have to agree . We talked about it last night and we will try it with the daughters and just see what we get. Worst case scenario, we get freezer fodder. I have a breeder I can get bucklings from for fair if I need them. Ones we have gotten grand champion with in the past as well, so I could even buy a buckling from her as a secondary buck if I needed to. Thanks for the input!


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Oh, interesting, I didn't know that about the dairy x boer!


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## tlcnubians (Jan 21, 2011)

We raise Nubians, and one of my original does came from a herd that believed strongly in linebreeding. She was 30%+ inbred, with her sire also being her grandsire, and she lived a long, healthy life. Although she seldom stood at the head of her classes, she did produce some lovely doe kids for us and three generations later gave me my first SGCH doe, TLC-Farms Sam's Belle Starr. A buck that I use a lot in my breeding program is almost 24% inbred. If your buck is the only one you have available, then I would go ahead and use him, just keeping in mind that you may lose stature and strength the more inbred your animals become, but linebreeding is very common in many Nubian herds and used to produce consistency. 

We breed our does when they weigh at least 80 pounds, which is usually by the time they're 8-9 months old.

Caroline


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## green farm girl (May 24, 2012)

thanks for all of the input. We have never bred our girls before a year old. I have heard that you can stunt their growth if you breed them in the first year. Anyone have any valid remarks to that, or is it a myth?


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## Greylady (Mar 28, 2012)

Bred my 2 this year for first time at 8 1/2 months old. One was a 120 pounds and the other 90 pounds. It hasn't stunted them. I think as long as they have the right nutrition they grow out fine. One has kidded with doe twins with one at 7.17 lbs, the other 6.7 lbs. and doing great as a first time milker.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

I have always bred my does to kid as yearlings. They continue to grow and when they freshen their kids are as big and vigorous as the older does and they produce milk just fine. But you must feed them appropriately! They need enough nutrition and calories to grow themselves and their kids. My first fresheners get plenty of everything: alfalfa, browse, grain and minerals.


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## Blackbird (Jan 11, 2013)

I was always very paranoid about breeding that early; but now I can't wait to. I hope to finally breed that early come this fall.
I did buy two 2010 does in the spring of 2011 right after they kidded. They were probably around 100lbs at the time of kidding. They were quite small compared to my own 2010 does. Today, they are the tallest and widest Nubians in the group. Genetic? Somewhat, but they really do catch up.

I was told by an appraiser that you will hear stories about legs & feet breaking down and going bad, and that's why they shouldn't be bred that early; he said this was simply an excuse breeders use for bad conformation. He made the mention that at what feed costs, there is no reason to wait another year. Guess another reason why good feet & legs are super important.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

I have an alpine doe that kidded 1 day before her first birthday last year. She peaked at a little over 8 lbs of milk in that lactation, and weighs 175 lbs at not quite 2 years old. Nope, don't think it necessarily stunts them, so long as you take good care of them.


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## green farm girl (May 24, 2012)

Wow! you all proved to me that we have an ol' wives tale on our hands! I may just leave them in with the fair goats, as we show at 85-90 lbs. Fair is Sept 15 so if they come into heat at the end of Aug beginning of Sept, then I guess we will try it. I totally agree about the cost to feed them out for over a year with no return. Makes sence on those terms to start earlier.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

I agree with many of the responses, but you do have to keep a good management. I have found when breeding at 8-9 months with our feeding regiment that our does go through a huge growth period that those who haven't been bred yet do not go through until a 1yr old. So it is important to keep up on minerals, calcium, phosphorous, copper. Do not overdo it with feed, lots of good alfalfa/grass hay, and all the clean water they can drink usually works fine.
Tam


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## Blackbird (Jan 11, 2013)

Yup, you can't slack on good nutrition; otherwise you run into really big problems.. And that doesn't mean everyone should breed that first year; some probably shouldn't.


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