# Feeding amounts



## Dav (Apr 26, 2011)

I fallowed the schedule in "Raising Goats for Dummies"
Got them week old.
10-OZ 3xday for second though forth week
12-oz every 12 hrs, fifth through eight weeks
& ninth through tenth weeks 6-oz morning & night.

I'm finishing up the tenth week ( have a doe & buck), they are eating grain, alfafa hay, regular hay, green grass and starting drinking more water. They have a DuMOR Goat Block also which they have nibled down some.

My question is what do I do now that I stop feeding milk?
Do I keep feeding kids Demor Goat Feed free choice?
And when do they stop being kids?
Dav


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Dav - I'm not familiar with "Raising Goats for Dummies", but most on here would say they weren't being fed enough milk. Most will feed all they will eat and will not wean until 4 or 5 months old. For instance, I've got 3 two-month-old doelings and 1 one-month old buckling on a lambar, 3x/day, 96 oz per feeding. Someone with more experience than me will have to advise what to do regarding feeding milk to your kids at this point. 

How are they growing? Are getting a 10 lb/month weight gain on them? Also, are you practicing cocci prevention? What abour wormers?

Personally, yes I would feed them the Dumor feed free choice, as well as alfalfa. I'd get rid of the goat block and feed a good mineral, free choice.

Check out "Kid Management - From Birth to Kidding" in the Goatkeeping 101 section. Lots of good info there.

Good luck with them!


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

My three week old doeling, the only kid not on a free choice lambar, but on a bottle, gets 5, 20 ounce bottles per day. (so about 100 oz per day, and that is all she can eat) I think you are seriously underfeeding your kids and that the book for dummies was most likely WRITTEN by dummies! Hopefully your kids are nigerians, although even for miniature goats, the amounts you are feeding are too little. 

Their mothers would never limit them in this way if they were dam raised, and if you are trying to raise dairy animals, underfeeding them will result in smaller kids and adults with lower milk-producing potential.

10 weeks is too young to wean a dairy animal you plan to breed this fall. Four months of milk, at least a half gallon per day will give you larger kids who are at breeding weight this fall, provided you got on the cocci prevention and worming early on, (at three weeks). 

Welcome to the forum!


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## Rose (Oct 26, 2007)

Cheryl (the author of Goat Raising for Dummies) has mini goats. No reason to bad mouth her. :sigh

From a web search for her bio:

Goat Health Care; basic goat management. Author of Goat Health Care (2009) and Raising Goats for Dummies (2010)

Publisher of Goat Health Care, www.goathealthcare.com. I have raised miniature dairy goats since 1998. I published Ruminations, the Nigerian Dwarf and Mini Dairy Goat magazine for 7 years and mentor other goat owners, as I was mentored for my first years.
Organizations

American Goat Society (AGS), The Miniature Goat Registry (TMGR)

Publications

Raising Goats for Dummies (author) Goat Health Care (Editor and Author), Ruminations, Dairy Goat Journal, Issues in Law and Medicine, Topics in Health Records Management, Oregon Bar Bulletin, Midwifery Today, Countryside


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## adillenal (Feb 6, 2009)

Then why is she advocating so little milk? I have a mini LaMancha that can outdrink my regular LaManchas. I feed twice a day but they can drink all they want at that time. 

Anyway. I used to wean at 8 weeks for many years. I have started weaning at 12 weeks and I have two that are in a pen with younger doelings tyhat are 14 weeks and still on the lambar but they will go to a different pen soon. They are also eating feed and hay. 

Original question - Yes you keep feeding them the pellets. Also free choice hay. I feed my pellets twice a day. They do not clean it all up at once but I am feeding a certain amount per head. By the end of the day when it is time to feed again, they have usually cleaned it all up. I don't think they ever quit acting like kids. But my older ones are now yearlings.


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## Rose (Oct 26, 2007)

My MiniManchas wouldn't take more than 10 oz per feeding. Of course, that was four feedings per day, too.

I have week old Alpine/Saanen cross kids at the moment, and I keep putting 12 ounces in the bottles and pouring some out after feeding. I'd like them to take more, but that may not come till I reduce the number of feedings per day.

Raising goats..... everybody has their own way that works for them. :biggrin


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## Dav (Apr 26, 2011)

I have been feeling that I underfed milk, but there not skinny or fat, look & act great, must be well over thirty pounds.
Gave them A C&D shot 5/2 & will gave another in 30-days.
Just finished a 3-day natural wormer, which will continue weekly.
Don't know about "cocci" ?
Will feed grain free choice until ????
Thanks Rose for defending Cheryl.
Her book said feed miniatures about half the amount quoted.
From what I've read it seems to me that that all that milk suggested here would cause fat buildup which is not good for birthing.
Now that I've cut to 6-ounces in the morning only, they are really going after the grain, they have been chomping up the alfalfa hay for over a month.
They look very good to me on that milk schedule and it cost enough at that amount.
It looks like they just start eating earlier on less milk which I think is healthier . Of course I don't know what I'm talking about, just talking.
The milk re-placer I used:
1 gallon 100% milk
1 cup buttermilk
1 can carnation milk
About a half cup of white Karo
And 1-egg
I beat the egg & other stuff up & pour in the milk, then shake.
Must have used 3 dozen eggs, but have chickens, had to purchase the rest.
Maybe this is why they seem so healthy ?
Dav


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Dav, the only milk they would need is regular old milk. You don't need all the other stuff.


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## adillenal (Feb 6, 2009)

I advocate the simple method. Whole goat milk.(when I have enough)

When I do not have enough milk I mix whole goat milk with a quality kid milk replacer to stretch the milk but they still get all they want at a feeding. I don't mix a formula for the kids.

To each his own. 

I had a man at my market yesterday asking about how to trim feet, milk goats, etc. Seems he has a couple of "pets" that someone gave him. He was using a book (did not get the name) but some of the things he was quoting were a little unusual. He kind of lost me on the hoof trimming until I realized he was talking about tieing them up like you tie a calf when calf roping.


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## lonestrchic23 (Jan 7, 2011)

Goats are herbivores, they don't need to eat eggs....nor should they.

If I don't have goats milk, I feed whole vitamin D cows milk from the grocery store. Milk is a perfect food.....no need to add all that other stuff. 

What breed of goat are they?

The mini buck we have here is TINY & he gets 30oz per feeding, twice a day. 

Cocci is a parasite that damages the intestines of your kids, slows growth and can cause scaring that effects them the rest of their lives.

You'll need to go buy a bottle of Corid (the liquid) go to the Goat Keeping 101 section of the forum, click on the Cocci meds and find your dosage. Give for 5 days in a row, no skipping days and repeat every 21 days. Switch them to whole cows milk if you don't have goats milk, up their amounts a bit and you can hide the cocci meds in their bottles to make dosing easier.

Don't worry....we've all started just like you....usually following someones advice or a book only to find out all the info wasn't exactly accurate. No biggey, that's why forums like this are so great.....Many people here have been at this for DECADES and new comers have the advantage to learn from their mistakes and have a better start.

I wish you the best of luck.....Don't be bashful about asking questions, folks here love to help people start off on the right track with their dairy goats & I know for me personally, what I've learned here has saved me tons of heartbreak. 

Oh, and welcome to the forum!


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

lonestrchic23 said:


> Don't worry....we've all started just like you....usually following someones advice or a book only to find out all the info wasn't exactly accurate. No biggey, that's why forums like this are so great.....Many people here have been at this for DECADES and new comers have the advantage to learn from their mistakes and have a better start.


 :yeahthat


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Devils advocate here :biggrin.
I know PLENTY of breeders that raise on two lambars a day from week one, then down to one lambar a day at two months. They wouldn't do it any other way, babies are healthy and growthy.

What we do here is at birth they really have no schedule. If their hungery they get fed. At a week they are put on a 4x a day scedule (all they can eat). At three weeks they are put on 3 x a day , at six weeks 2x a day, and then at eight weeks its once a day until 12 weeks when they are weaned totally. We have two that are just a little younger than the rest but are doing just fine on the once a day schedule. There is never any hay left over at feeding time and what little kibble they do get is gone. Now if I didn't have them in a pen with a field I doubt they would be getting enough as they keep their field down nicely.

Tam


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Mar 2, 2009)

Our babies all weaned themselves onto two bottles a day at about two or three weeks. They get two 20 oz bottles a day now and they are about ten weeks. They will continue to get that until they are around 12 weeks, then they will go to one bottle a day until they are about six months old. We keep them on the one bottle a day so its easier to give them their Corid.


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## Dav (Apr 26, 2011)

I found this interesting:

OVER-FEEDING NEWBORN BOTTLE-BABY GOATS

Most of you know that I am a firm believer in not having bottle babies. I much prefer to hold their dam to let them nurse for several days or foster them onto another doe with similar-aged kids than bottle feeding for three months. It is neither cost- nor time-effective to have bottle babies plus they never think of themselves as goats and never fit into the herd. Your worst nightmare is a grown buck who was a bottle baby. He will hurt every person on your ranch -- usually unintentionally -- because he thinks he is still a baby (person). "Spoiled" doesn't begin to describe such a buck.

However, the winter of 2009-2010 has been a terrible challenge both to birthing dams and producers, and the choice in some instances has been either bottling newborns or letting them die. Deliberately letting newborn kids die is not an option on my ranch.

Therefore, here is how you calculate what you should be feeding so that you don't over-feed a newborn to (roughly) a 10-day-old bottle baby. Remember, suckling is a very satisfying experience. Newborns and very young kids will nurse until they overeat on milk and die. Floppy Kid Syndrome is a very real possibility.

Weigh the newborn. Convert its weight into ounces. Calculate 10% to 12% of total bodyweight in ounces, divide that number by four feedings, and feed that amount over a 24 hour period. Example: An eight-pound kid weight converted to ounces is 128 ounces. 8 x 16 oz - 128 oz. Multiple 128 oz by 12% = 15.4 ounces. Let's be generous and round up to 16 oz, Divide 16 oz by 4 feedings = 4 oz per feeding. Recognize that this amount varies by sex and number of kids in the litter and is higher for heavier newborns.

Check the kid for a full tummy by placing it on the ground on its feet, supporting its own weight. Stand over it, facing the same direction that the kid is facing. Place your fingers in front of the back legs on both sides of its tummy. The tummy should feel firm, not hard and not squishy. If the formula provided above doesn't accomplish this, adjust it upward a bit until you achieve the needs of that particular kid. This is not a written-in-stone rule; common sense must prevail.

The amount of milk changes as the kid grows, and the percentage of milk to body weight increases too. But by about two to three weeks of age, the kid is much more physically active and eating some solid food, so the chance of over-feeding on milk is lessened.

My point is to illustrate how quickly you can over-feed a newborn or very young kid. This is true if you use goat's milk, cow's milk, milk replacer, or any formulation of your own concoction. A kid will suckle until it drops if you let it. It doesn't know how much is too much milk. You have to control milk amounts, just like dams do. A kid has to have enough time between feedings to digest the milk in its stomach or undigested milk will accumulate and kill the kid. Overeating on milk is a painful death.

The Articles page at my website www.tennesseemeatgoats.com has columns I've written on health problems of newborn and young kids, floppy kid syndrome, how to get a kid on a bottle, and a host of other articles involving kidding problems. Take advantage of the information before kidding begins

Suzanne W. Gasparotto
ONION CREEK RANCH
Lohn, Texas 76852


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

I feed a lot less milk to my bottle-babies than a lot of people on this forum. After they have had as much colostrum as they will eat for two days, they get as much as they will drink, up to to 20oz, three times a day. So never more than 60oz a day. I do use cocci prevention. And I do feed some grain and all the alfalfa they can eat. My kids grow at least the minimum ten pounds a month, usually quite a bit more and I have never had one not be breeding weight by their first fall. This goes for minis and full size Lamanchas. Also I wean around 10-12 weeks.


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## Loden Farms (Dec 21, 2010)

Dav, 
I'm fairly new here myself with goats and raising them the right way. I've raised babies with other's directions, close to the ones you're going by, with not very good results. To say the least, I don't have those goats anymore . There are lots of very well known dairy goat breeders on this forum. They are extremely knowledgeable on just what you are asking about. If you follow Vicki's "From birth to kidding" in the goat keeping 101 section, you will have very healthy, beautiful animals, with great growth on them. Many here follow those instructions with excellent results, just look around on the websites of the older forum members, you don't get those results from following a management that doesn't work. By the way, if you don't know how much your babies weigh, you need to invest in a weight tape or start weighing them on a scale (you get on and then hold them, then subtract your weight). The article that you posted above, is from a meat breeder, and it is never "cost-nor-time-effective" for a meat breeder to pull babies at birth and bottle feed, that's what the momma's are for in that situation. Dairy goat breeders however most always pull babies at birth, to either sell, or whatever. We want the milk , and when goat's milk is selling for $6 and up a gallon... it only makes sense to pull the babies, put them on a bottle and feed whole vitamin D milk (cow's milk from the store, they don't need all that other stuff mixed in). Also, if you're going to feed dam's milk to the babies, by pulling at birth and heat treating or pasteurizing the milk, you can avoid having CAE positive goats, which is a definite plus! 
By what you are posting, you seem to be worried about fat kids... fat's not a problem until late pregnancy in goats (from what I understand) and by that time, what little fat is on them at breeding time will be used up by the time they kid out (by the drain of the growing kids inside her). But, to be able to breed the first year, you will have to have a high enough growth rate to support that pregnancy as well as your still growing doe . Fat is not bad on babies. In my experience with bottle feeding (over the last few years), unless you're babies are starving to death already, you can't give them too much milk. They WILL stop drinking when they are full! My babies are almost four and three months, neither are "FAT" and they get a quart each, twice a day. Here is my bottle baby doeling at just over three months (taken last month)  








And I think others here will definitely disagree with the bottle buck comment, most everyone's bucks here are bottle fed


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Mar 2, 2009)

:yeahthat

Also, I have a bottle raised buck and he is an absolute sweet heart. He loves to be loved on but is also respectful of my space. Many people on here have bottle raised bucks. I have tried dam raising and didn't like it. I will put in the extra work for bottle babies both doelings and bucklings.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

All three of my bucks were bottle raised and sweet as can be. But I had horses before goats and handled studs and it makes a difference how you handle them. Don't teach them back habits by pushing on their heads or letting them jump on you and don't act afraid of them (like maybe because they start to stink ) because they will think they are the boss. I take a crop in with me when I feed and have the boys stand in line while I pour their feed. If they step past my imaginary line I smack them. If they are in my way I tell them to move and I will smack them if they don't. Their only problem is being too loving and not wanting to stay off me. 

I have 3 nubian doelings that are 11 weeks old. Two of them are about 46 lbs, on is about 37 lbs (runty). One of the two bigger doelings is being dam raised. More food doesn't make them fat, just makes them grow. And the faster they grow, the faster they get a stronger immune system and are less delicate. Fat comes from not breeding the first year but still feeding grain, or feeding too much grain, drying off too early etc.

My does are still getting all the milk they want 3x a day. They get raw cows milk (of course the one gets an all you can eat buffet with mom). If they were bucks, they'd be probably 10 lbs bigger at this age.


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## Holly Govero (Mar 26, 2009)

At first Month I feed them 4 X a day then 2nd month to 3rd month I feed them 3 X a day and 4th month I feed them 2 X a day then slowly decrease to nothing. I know I feed 16 oz to 20 oz 4 x a day then 3 x a day is 32 oz each time and same thing. They grow so well for us..


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

" It is neither cost- nor time-effective to have bottle babies plus they never think of themselves as goats and never fit into the herd. Your worst nightmare is a grown buck who was a bottle baby. He will hurt every person on your ranch -- usually unintentionally -- because he thinks he is still a baby (person). "Spoiled" doesn't begin to describe such a buck." From Dav's paraphrase.

:laughcry :rofl :laughcry 
Sorry I can't help it. All of our goats have been bottle/lambar raised. Spoiled yes but done for PREVENTION, which is worth the time and money. As far as bottle/lambar raised bucks, I just have no good comment about that satement so I will keep my mouth shut OTHER THAN there's four of them out in the buck yard and I am 118lbs of gal 

Hogwash and Gollyfluff!
Tam


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I don't have time to read all the posts but think of this logically...how many bottle kids has Suzanne Gaspforbreath fed? I have raised over a thousand...and I raise bottle kids who were born last March and are kidding right now in May, that is the goal for my farm. Is this the goal for your farm? If not your mileagle will vary.

1 gallon 100% milk
1 cup buttermilk
1 can carnation milk
About a half cup of white Karo
And 1-egg
Lets look at this logically, whole vitamin D grocery store milk has about the same amount of protein and fat as most goats milk, a little less fat than most Nubian's have and alot less fat than meat goats have. So you are adding two products, buttermilk and evaporated milk that are low fat...that doesn't make much sense, then your adding Karo, which is nothing but white sugar, it can also cause diarrhea, it certainly acidifies the product you are making, hopefully at least 1 bottle a day contains some baking soda for the kids stomachs. Eggs, lots of protein, and fine for single stomached omnivores like dogs, our Ridgebacks get eggs as a meal once a day...but goats? No. So your taking a gallon of milk that costs right under $4 a gallon and adding all these products that don't improve it at all, and yet make the costs unaffordable for most to feed enough milk for growing dairy goats that you want to be 100+ pounds by December, you last month to really get them bred in most areas of the country to kid by May. If you are going to hold them over to kid on their second birthday, it's of really no consequence what you feed them as long as they get milk and when weaned are actually eating the feed stuffs you are offering, not just nibbling.

On herbal wormers, you need to learn to fecal, then this very big mouthed gal from Texas can't tell you what a horrible idea that is. When you talk to most who use herbal wormers they will tell you that in a pinch they do use chemical wormers...the problem is the in a pinch is after a kid is stunting from worms, after a milker has lost production, after you have bottle jaw, after you have severe anemia. Living in the far north where you have freezes, the first couple of years you have goats herbal wormers and not treating for cocci, not running fecals will work, but it will one day bite you, learning to fecal is the best thing you can do for your herd.

Welcome to the forum, we are all super passionate about getting the best advice there is to dairy goat folks, and neither of your sources are dairy goat sources. Glad you found us. Vicki


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Vicki McGaugh Tx Nubians said:


> I don't have time to read all the posts but think of this logically...how many bottle kids has Suzanne Gaspforbreath fed? I have raised over a thousand...and I raise bottle kids who were born last March and are kidding right now in May, that is the goal for my farm. Is this the goal for your farm? If not your mileagle will vary.
> 
> 1 gallon 100% milk
> 1 cup buttermilk
> ...


Amen. And please don't be discouraged by the feedback. Honesty and what works is the best policy. Just read HERE, the search feature is your friend as is Goatkeeping 101.

Welcome to the forum. You will not regret being here nor what you learn. It is an awesome place to learn how to take care of your goats. And what's more...............it works!


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

Sorry, didn't mean to bad mouth the author of a book, but when given such poor advice, it's hard not to be somewhat critical. Again, nothing personal. 

Everyone does things different. I just don't see how you can underfeed a production animal into health and vitality. I've heard the tale about preventing unwanted fat...but that worry would come later. A fast growing animal is not going to waste a lot of calories on fat storage. Now, once they are grown and not bred or milking, then yes, you'll need to cut out grain or at least cut back. 

I COMPLETELY disagree with the advice about not bottle feeding a buck! Nothing could be more untrue. I will never have an uncontrollable dam-raised buck on the property. What a can of crock! NOR will you be able to easily sell that un-manageable, wild, dam-raised buck. My buck can be handled by children or anyone. All of the bucks we've raised were bottled and very tame and sweet.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

My dam raised bucklings I sell are nice too  

It's about the handler. Do you spend time with them? Do you let them jump on you? Do you teach them to butt? My little bucklings are sweet as pie. I have a little Togg buckling right now that steals the show with visitors. I think he is 9 weeks old.


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## tendermeadowsnigerians (Sep 8, 2010)

I will only have bottle raised bucks here. That way they learn what is expected of them and what is not appropriate behavior, they are not allowed to jump on me or anyone else, they are not allowed to shove their heads in buckets looking for treats, ect and they get their pedicures starting around 3 weeks old.
They are used to being handled and I dont have to chase them everywhere to catch them, they are more then happy to meet me at the fence for a good scratch and they are more then willing to jump on the milk stand and stand still while getting a pedicure. The 2 dam raised bucks I had here were a night mare, they were hard to catch, they jumped fences, they fought when it was time for copper, deworming, hoof trims, they went to the freezer and I willl never again have a dam raised buck here. But thats just my opinion.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Dav, 
Ashley hit it on the head when she said "It's about the handler". Kids have to be taught manners. It doesn't matter if they are dam or bottle raised. They jump on you, they bite, they want to play. It is up to us to tell them its not okay.

And I would like to back up that everyone has their own schedule and how they like things done but facts are facts and implemented into a good routine is what healthy goats are made of. I would learn to fecal to know your herbal wormer is working. And to know what cocci looks like, whats normal and what isn't.

No bad feelings towards the author, I just do not agree with her writing, sorry.
Tam


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