# Selling Dam-Raised Kids



## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

Normally I bottlefeed everything, but this year I let the last two moms to kid raise their own kids. Yes, I've paid a lot of attention to those kids and they will let me pet them and catch them if I sit down in the pen....but still, they are no where near as sociable as the bottle fed babies. 

I always felt a little bad taking the kids from the moms right after birth. My experience this year was that the moms still hollered for me, even though they had their babies. Now, it's going to be a stressful experience weaning, both for moms AND babies, and since I don't have a separate kid pen up right now, it will have to happen on the day they are sold...if I sell them. They are almost 5 months old so are ready to go by anyones standard, but, I honestly don't feel like I can sell these kids for full price because they are not as friendly and personable as they should be. If they were meat goats, it would be no big deal, but these are to be family milk goats and I cannot imagine anyone wanting to pay good money for what I would consider a half wild kid. 

I can just imagine the stress they will undergo at new homes where not only do they not have their momma, but they are around people they do not know....my normal kids view all humans as their "rightful" family and never seem to be stressed much by moving. 

When people come to look at kids that have been dam-raised, are they put-off by their less than human-friendly personalities? I can't even tell them honestly that they will for certain tame down to be as tame and friendly as all my other goats are. I can't even image WHAT to tell them!


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

Assuming they are good future milkers consider selling them to a small dairy farm like mine (wish you were closer! I am looking for kids to buy). My own kids are all bottle raised and incredibly tame (when I bring the does inside for milking a have a group in front of me and then some young 'uns following me like I'm their mom! ), but I also milk does for other people and I have had some maniacs arrive here! In a herd like mine, though, where they go through a parlor rather than individually on a milk stand, they tend to feel safe within the group and since they don't need to be 'man-handled' I can have patience with them while they adjust. So far even the biggest scaredy cats have adjusted over here and done really well. Some of them even like to be petted now, and others still rather look at me from a safe distance, but give me no trouble in the parlor.

Marion


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

My dam-raised does (who are milkers now) are not as "ïn your face" but there are no problems milking them. They learn the routine of coming into the barn, etc and give me no problems. I actually prefer them to the bottle babies.


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

There's a goat for everyone. I get some people that actually request and pay me more, to dam raise their kid (as opposed to coming and getting it younger on the bottle). I've never found weaning at sale time hard on the dams. They usually act a little relieved if anything. I've bought kids off their moms, and it wasn't bad either - biggest problem is if they aren't really eating enough. Then they will slow growth wise. I prefer to pick up bottle babies early and raise them myself. Sometimes when I buy other people's bottle babies, I find them too irritating - they don't respect my space. The dam raised kids have been very friendly this year. That said I've paid good prices for wild goats before, because I wanted the pedigree, so I wouldn't cut the price.


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## dreamfirefarm (Nov 15, 2011)

I dam raise now but use to bottle everything But since my herd is tested every year and has been clean for 10+ years I dam raise. I still like a friendly kid so I let the kids bond with mom for say 2 or 3 days then kep babies up and turn mom out for about 2 or 3 weeks, by the end of thet time the babies have binded to me and mom and I have no problems with wasp dam raised babies. Its a little more work than strictly dam raised but not as much as bottle feeding.


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

I have never had a problem selling dam raised kids. I actually prefer them because they are not in your face all the time. I hate tripping over bottle raised goats of any age! I do handle the kids from birth on when dam raised. Yes, they get skittish when I have to medicate them and de-worm them but they get over it. Especially when they learn that I am mistress of the grain scoop!


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Yes, food is a goats' best friend, and that is why bottle kids love us-we are a source of food. 5 month olds should readily take to grain, so you can probably get them to love you for the grain too. I do like the personality of most dam-raised kids better than the bottle kids, SO LONG AS they are given lots of attention. I have a set of kids now that is dam-raised, but they are also bottle-raised. I kind of do both...separate from dam and offering a bottle. They love their pets and attention, and are very curious, but they Don't (oops I had left that important word out!) clobber me when I go in the goat pen! It's great! My bottle-raised ones are constantly trying to run me over. Anyway, I think they will do just fine at their new place, and I certainly wouldn't adjust the price based on bottle-vs.-dam raising. They still drank all that milk, got care like deworming, etc., so why should it be changed?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I won't purchase dam raised kids period. They are tame enough for the owner, which means they won't come to me when called. The owner is at arms length touching maybe the nose of the goat, that isn't tame enough for me. I want a goat that thinks I am mom and eaisly moves to the next person and thinks they are mom, I have never seen it happen with dam raised kids unless you have a lot of children around or are new to goats. Vicki


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

This year we tried the method Tim lays out in his article on natural kid rearing. For the most part I was really happy with how it worked for us.


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## PrairieTrail45 (Nov 28, 2011)

I've got a dam raised kid now that I let the doe raise. She is pretty tame around me, but anyone else who goes in the pen she will watch carefully. I can walk right up to her, catch her, lead her and put her on the milkstand. But anyone else will have a harder time. Her and my two bottle kids that I still have all get grain at night so she will come running when it is feeding time, go in the pen to be fed and then squeeze under the gate to eat alfalfa with the big girls. She actually prefers alfalfa over grain. 

I did buy two dam raised kids who were about 9 months old when I got them. They hadn't been touched except for vaccinations, CAE test and to be weaned. They were WILD. The one was bred soon after I got her as she was quite large, the other was younger and not quite big enough. The one kidded and learned the routine quickly. She would come in to be milked and let me handle her. Only problem with her, when anyone else was around (outside or in the milk room) she would not come in. Then I would have to go out and coax her to come close enough so I could catch her. I sold her this spring and made sure the new owner knew she wasn't super tame but would learn the milking routine and come in to be milked. The other doe was bred the following year to kid as a 2 year old. She never tamed down and was sold with her kids to be a brood doe.

I won't buy any more dam raised kids, they are far too much work if they have never been handled and aren't as easy to catch if there is something wrong or if they need to be vaccinated/bolused/etc. They always seem to know when you want to do something to them and play "catch me if you can". The ones I have/have had are all 1 person goats. They like me, are used to me and that is it. If you do sell them, I would just make sure to let any potential buyers know they were dam raised and are not as personable as the bottle babies. Some people like that, some don't.


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

Even my bottle kids are suspicious of strangers. I live alone, so they don't see many humans other than me, and my son from a distance. They really don't like having people in their pen and will run from them or hide behind me.


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

I sell dam raised kids. I'm upfront about this to the buyers. With my goats, it seems even the wildest kids tame down when they freshen, so long as they are brought into the milk room as soon as they kid and continued to come in daily. My yearling Alpine cross milker was wilder than a March hare as a kid. She's now very sweet and doesn't act any different than my other bottle raised yearlings. The key is to bring these does into the milk parlor EVERY DAY rather than just let them raise their kids and not handle them.


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## Annie (Jun 10, 2012)

Bottle-raised kids make me crazy, tooo attention-seeking. A dam-raised kid, if given human attention right from birth, will bond with a human but NOT be obnoxiously friendly. 
My herd boss, Crissy, is a dam-raised kid. She's 8 yrs old now. She knows her name and does come when called. She's an absolute delight, will accompany on a walk around the pasture, but not jump or try to nose my hands/pockets for food. She's a dream to milk, never jumpy.
I think if you make an effort spend time with a dam-raised kid from the start - I like to be there when the kids are born and try to imprint on them the first few days - they can become fantastic dairy goats or pets. 
I've never lowered a price for a dam-raised kid, never had too.


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

I see all these posts about bottle raised kids jumping all over you, but you can just teach them not to do that. You don't let your dog jump all over you either, and so I make sure my doelings know that I am not to be jumped on. Now the babies while on milk are like an annoying ocean to wade through when I walk into the pen with the lambar, but once they are weaned they learn to not completely surround me.


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## Sans Gene Goats (May 15, 2011)

Annie said:


> Bottle-raised kids make me crazy, tooo attention-seeking. A dam-raised kid, if given human attention right from birth, will bond with a human but NOT be obnoxiously friendly.


 :yeahthat



swgoats said:


> There's a goat for everyone.


EXACTLY!


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

Trysta said:


> I see all these posts about bottle raised kids jumping all over you, but you can just teach them not to do that. You don't let your dog jump all over you either, and so I make sure my doelings know that I am not to be jumped on.


Definately, that's why I like to pick babies up young and raise them myself. I can bond with them, and raise them to behave just the way I want them to. Different people just like different things. I've learned what I like by raising kids different ways. I've raised both bottle babies and dam raised babies that weren't just right for me. This year I really can't tell much difference between my dam raised and bottle raised babies.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

My dam raised kids are quite tame. They are always getting picked up and hugged and loved on and scritched.. I just think they are adorable and hey, I don't have human kids, I have to mother something :lol . I do also often give them some bottles and keep them from mom overnight some. But even my bottle raised kids are wary of strangers even when totally comfortable with me. They just aren't used to other people messing with them. But they come around fast, they replace me with the new owner pretty quick. 

I think each way has it's advantages. Bottle kids are more like pets, I think dam raised kids are "smarter". 

And yes, you can train them not to jump! I can't stand animals jumping on me or stepping on me. I've had several people comment that kids they get from me at weaning age are very well behaved. Comes from having horses first I think, I correct all the time without thinking about it and I'm very, very consistent. But goats are one of the most difficult animals to train about personal space.


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

You watch those kids climb all over mom, and it is easy to see why they don't naturally respect personal space. I have some does that try to drag me when we are walking. I recently figured out to just put my hand behind my back so they have to walk behind me. It works really well. Always things to learn with them.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Yes, it is natural for the babies when they are small to climb all over their moms, and if you take them from their goat mom, you are their mom! I had an ah ha moment this year, when after hand-raising all my spring kids, I decided to let the dam keep her August kids, and I watched those kids jump on bounce off and do all kinds of crazy things to their mom! And my kids LOVE me to pet them, scritch them, love on them, are good for leading (well, as good as 6 week olds get anyway), etc. I don't think dam-raised kids have to be timid at all. But I do also think that even if they are somewhat timid, they will warm up after freshening like others have mentioned.


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

Well, I'm glad to hear good results from dam raising. I can see both sides. No the dam raised kids don't normally all try to push through the gate like all the other goats do whenever I open it and they don't jump on me unless my back is turned  They have had a lot of attention, but because they are timid when removed from the pasture, or when I catch them to worm or put on collars, etc. it has had me worried about selling them. I've only had 3 other buck kids that were dam raised in my years of goat raising. Two were wildish and went (for free) for brush clearing and one was born the last kid of the season and got loads of attention and was absolutely as tame as a bottle baby. With the boys I didn't really worry about it and in fact the new owners were happy with them. With does though, out of good milking lines that I'm not giving away, I feel like it is a negative mark against them for them not to be absolutely obnoxiously friendly  At five months old, I'm actually still waiting on their service memos so I can sell them as registered too or they would have/should have, been sold already.  So, half wild, no papers....if I had a buck I could use on them I'd just keep them and sell them as FF milkers.


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## Polopony (Dec 24, 2011)

We also have Boers and are fairly new to dairy goats. I have a small herd so I know that changes things. My dam raised Boers are gentle because I do have teenagers and they mess with them quite a lot.


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## lorit (May 10, 2010)

I sorta do like Tim outlines and have no problems with my dam raised kids. Perhaps it is cuz I have children who "lead" them around, etc. but mine meet me at the gate just like everyone else. Know their names, come when called, etc. And don't seem any more leery of strangers than any of my goats.

I keep them on mom full time for first 2-3 weeks, then start seperating at night. They learn that routine quickly and actually run to their night pen when I open the main gate and call them. They get grain there which I am sure helps.  I also (until they start getting into trouble) let them play around the milkroom, jump on the milk stand and hang out with mom while she is being milked - this gets them totally unafraid of the noises, routine, etc. That way when I start doing hoofs, shots, anything like that, they jump right up and don't freak out. I freshened my first homegrown dam raised doe this spring and I think it paid off.

I also have had no problems with giving meds or cocci/worming stuff. They might not like the taste but will still come to me time after time and let me squirt it in thier mouth.  I do like to attend every birth and imprint as much as possible and when they are tiny I sit and cuddle baby while mom is being milked. 

I have also purchased bottle babies and don't see any appreciable difference - and don't mind the attention that any of my goats give us.  And sometimes I switch the kids over to a lambar and have had no problems with that method either - I really think it depends upon what works for each person/farm and each year might be different.  If I know I am selling some, I take more time and effort into teaching them the bottle, lambar and making sure they will be ready to go. And all babies get bottles at least during the monthy test time when they have to be seperated longer than just overnight.


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

My problem with the bottle kids is I am always tripping over them. The dam raised ones tend to stay out form under foot, but my balance is horrible due to some inner ear issues and arthritis and one leg considerably longer than the other. I hate falling in the goat pen and I especially hate falling on the wee ones. I'm afraid i am going to hurt them. The dam raised kids learn to stay away from the pathetic human's clumsy feet from their mothers.


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

Ha, a fellow klutz!!! That's why I teach my bottle kids to not jump and walk in my way as soon as they are off milk, because I, too, am perfectly able to trip over my own feet :lol. I do not need any help with that! My husband always says that he wonders every time I don't pick up my phone wether I did something stupid and am laying somewhere in the barn with two broken legs. Hasn't happened yet, I'm still going strong (just usually somewhat bruised and battered... hey, you know, gates sometimes come out of nowhere!)


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## Annie (Jun 10, 2012)

I truly believe that being present at the birth, helping just a little with the cleaning off, and handling the babies the first few days DOES imprint us on goat kids as part of their family.

Also, at about 2 mos old, I start playing what I refer to "milky milky", I touch doe kids on their little teats/udders just to get them used to it. As they grow up I do this often, and I've found that once they're on the milk stand they are a lot LESS apprehensive.


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

Even my best milkers don't want me near their teats when they're dry.


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## Greylady (Mar 28, 2012)

We have been doing the touching the udders/teats also on our 2 young does and they do not mind now.



Annie said:


> I truly believe that being present at the birth, helping just a little with the cleaning off, and handling the babies the first few days DOES imprint us on goat kids as part of their family. We also are getting them used to getting up on the milkstand and used to the commands.
> 
> Also, at about 2 mos old, I start playing what I refer to "milky milky", I touch doe kids on their little teats/udders just to get them used to it. As they grow up I do this often, and I've found that once they're on the milk stand they are a lot LESS apprehensive.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

If you don't handle your lambar kids, they just as well can be wild! Another thing to consider.


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## lonestrchic23 (Jan 7, 2011)

fmg said:


> If you don't handle your lambar kids, they just as well can be wild! Another thing to consider.


Very true.... I bought a lambar raised doeling when she was about 2 months old. Her breeder had her kid pens set up so she could walk down the isle, clip lambar buckets outside the pen, & dump in grain from the outside. Never handled unless they were being caught for deworming. Doeling was VERY skittish in, the beginning, but has warmed up well since the munchkins always hang out with the babies & the other kids were very tame.


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

There is a local breeder who sells a large number of kids each year and lambar raises. No way he'd be able to manage otherwise. The set up was as you describe, Crystal. Lambars could be filled from the center aisle of the barn. It was truly a system designed for intelligent time management. Seeing so many goats tended in such a short amount of time was pretty amazing. But the kids aren't handled much. A friend purchased one of his kids and said she was wild as a march hare and took some time to tame down. I told her just carry a bucket when you need to catch her!


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