# Bent Leg?



## mammabooh (Sep 15, 2011)

I have a doe that I believe might be suffering from this. She fits many of the criteria mentioned in the Merck info...she is young (will be a year on the 23rd of this month), she is/was extremely fast growing (consistently 20-30 pounds heavier than her twin sister), she is due to kid soon, and, up until a couple of weeks ago, she was still nursing occasionally from her dam.

A couple of weeks ago, I noticed that she acted like she was having trouble walking. So, I thought it was beginning stages of pregnancy toxemia and started treating her with oral Cal MPK. However, the more I watched her struggling to walk, the more I realized that her legs and feet look odd...she is walking on her front toes, almost to the point of buckling, and her back legs look twisted/bowed. Her feet seem to be drawn in...like the two sides of her hooves are squeezed together abnormally. She has a decent appetite, has been eliminating normally, and otherwise seems alert. Ketones showed between negative and trace. Temperature 102.8. Anyone have any recommendations for me? I'm not very good at reading this kind of stuff and gleaning much usable info. Can anyone suggest a course of action? Thanks!

Here's the info I copied from the Merck website.
"Bent leg is the result of a calcium-phosphorus imbalance. It is seen in young, rapidly growing kids (more often in males than in females) and in young does in the later stages of their first pregnancy or in the early stages of their first lactation. These does are either young (eg, 12 mo), extremely heavy milkers, or carrying twins or triplets. Bent leg is sometimes compounded by rickets ( Rickets).
Clinical Findings and Diagnosis:
Bent leg starts with lateral or medial bowing of one or both radii. Later changes may consist of lateral deviation of the digits on the fore- or hindfeet; lameness and reluctance to walk; an arched back; and soft swelling and pain in the carpal, metacarpophalangeal, tarsal, and metatarsophalangeal joints. Diagnosis can be confirmed with radiography.
Conditions that have been implicated in the cause include an excess of dietary calcium with a calcium-phosphorus ratio of >1.4:1 (generally >1.8:1), excess protein intake (has caused epiphysitis in other species), excess dietary iron (has reduced serum phosphorus levels in lambs by decreasing vitamin D metabolite formation), and housing of kids or lack of vitamin D caused by prolonged overcast weather and low vitamin D levels in the feed. Carotene has an antivitamin D effect. Vitamin D has poor stability in prepared feed, especially when mixed with minerals. Alfalfa is high in calcium (1.4% calcium to 0.2% phosphorus) and protein. Owners frequently keep kids on fresh milk for prolonged periods because often no commercial outlet for the milk is available.

Treatment and Control:
Once the probable cause(s) is identified, the diet should be corrected and the appropriate supplement given—usually injectable vitamin D and phosphorus or oral balanced calcium/phosphorus supplements (or both).
Predisposing factors also must be corrected. The diet of growing kids should be changed to slow their growth rates. The mating of very young does should be discouraged. Buck kids should be separated from doe kids when 3-4 mo old. Young does in milk with limb deformities should be managed so that full lactation is discouraged, eg, by not milking out fully and drying off as early as possible.
Treatment stops limb deformities from worsening and should improve them to a great extent. However, a return to completely normal limbs is rare."


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

I really hope Tracy sees this, there is a phosporous shot (I believe) that helps with this and also A&D shots. I was unable to help our doe that had this issue. I know Tracy has had experience with this so if she does not see this PM her. I also thought ours had to do with Calcium but it was not the case. When feeding a high calcium diet and forcing the bones to grow faster it messes with the platlettes (I think that is correct). I have since stopped feeding our kids any calf manna with the alfalfa hay we have that is high in calcium. We are also deficient here in Vit D. So look into your Calcium: phosporous ratio, look into your feed and find the issues. And talk to Tracy.
Tam


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## mammabooh (Sep 15, 2011)

In case you're wondering, I feed her oats/BOSS mixed at a rate of 6 parts oats to 1 part Boss. She gets about 1 cup of that mixture a day. She also has about 3-4 cups of alfalfa pellets and free choice hay that is 75% orchard grass and 25% alfalfa.


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## mammabooh (Sep 15, 2011)

Caprine Beings said:


> I really hope Tracy sees this, there is a phosporous shot (I believe) that helps with this and also A&D shots. I was unable to help our doe that had this issue. I know Tracy has had experience with this so if she does not see this PM her. I also thought ours had to do with Calcium but it was not the case. When feeding a high calcium diet and forcing the bones to grow faster it messes with the platlettes (I think that is correct). I have since stopped feeding our kids any calf manna with the alfalfa hay we have that is high in calcium. We are also deficient here in Vit D. So look into your Calcium: phosporous ratio, look into your feed and find the issues. And talk to Tracy.
> Tam


Are you talking about Tracy in Idaho?


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Yes Billie, Tracy In Idaho. I know that she is in the middle of kidding. I did speak with someone who is going to see her today, later on. I am sure she will respond for you. She has had better responses than I did. Do you copper bolus? How is she getting her copper supplementation? What about her selenium intake? Both of these have have a big deal to do with metabolic issues such as this. As well as the other deficiencies. Copper allows the body to metabolize things better. Selenium is for their muscles, joints, ligaments, and tendons. 

Now, just for those who do not know the difference:
"Bent leg" is where they have their legs bending inward.
"Bowed leg" is where the legs are bowing out. 
Tam


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## mammabooh (Sep 15, 2011)

Thanks for that info. I can't adequately describe how her legs look. I took some pics last week, but they didn't show it well. I'll go out and try to get better pictures. Like I said, she's walking on her front toes. But, her back legs bow out and then, right above her feet, they twist and the back feet are pointing out. It's the weirdest thing. 

As for your questions, I had been bolusing, in addition to having Right Now Onyx minerals at all times. I stopped bolusing back in September and switched to weekly administrations of 5ccs of Replamin Gel plus, because so many goat people on Homesteading Today were having great success with it. In case you have never heard of it, in a 5cc dosage, it has 33.8 mg of copper, .39 mg of selenium, and a host of other things in it. My goats look great, but I'm starting to wonder if it's just not a good fit for my location. Our part of Ohio is listed as selenium deficient. Do you think I should go ahead and give a Bo-Se injection? I have never done that before, but I just got a bottle from my friend (he's a small animal vet and ordered it for me) on Wednseday, so I have it available.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

I have not heard of what you are talking about, so I have no idea if the copper is in Chelated form or not. Besides that pastes just really do not do much good with ruminants.

I really suggest you learn to bolus with copper oxide wires. They are not as bad as all have made them out to be. The copper oxide wires can be ordered through Jeffers and on the FOR SALE section there is someone who makes them for goats. That way the dosage is correct. I have had alot of luck giving our animals their doses over their food, in small increments. We are seriously copper deficient here due to various environmental factors. Oxide wires drop down and get into the lining of the stomach where they can be absorbed over a longer period of time...thus giving a healthier outcome.

As far as your selenium: a shot of Selenium and E (BoSe) stays in the system for approxiamately 21 days, it is given SubQ, and does NOT have to be given every 21 days. Each animals has their own deficiencies. We normally give BoSe 2-3 times a year, some does require more. So this is a harder supplement to dice down as far as to the how often. Once again...I am not fond of Oral pastes or gels. I have not had good experiences with them. 

So when was the last time you pasted your animals?

Tam


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## mammabooh (Sep 15, 2011)

I haven't given the selenium/e paste since September 15. I have the copper oxide wires, but haven't given her any of that since September 23. Shortly after that is when I started the Replamin.

I'm willing to give her the Bo-se and bolus her if it is decided that I'm not going to overdose her. I skipped last week's dosage of Replamin just in case that might be the trouble...so, she hasn't had any of that since February 15th.


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## mammabooh (Sep 15, 2011)

Here are pictures...I just took them a few minutes ago. Now, I'm wondering if it could be just a bad trim job. I trimmed them the same as I always do, but, I must admit that they don't look great in the pictures. I don't know if it's how she's standing on them, of if the trim job is making her stand/walk like that. Any thoughts? Oh, how I would love to be able to fix her up with a hoof trim!!!!


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

This is not Bent or bowed leg. Yes it is the hoof trimming, as you can see the unevenness of the inner half to the outer half of the hooves. Otherwise I see nothing wrong with her 
Tam


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## Laverne (Apr 4, 2010)

I believe conformation comes into play here also. I have a doe who does this with her hind hoofs. She is a little bowed in her leg and puts more weight on the outer half of her hoof so the inner grows more. I have to keep up on her but she will always do this. It looks like your doe has narrow heels also. I have a doe with narrow heels which make them weak and want to collapse in. I can see that with your doe also.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Thanks for sharing the pics and those that commented. I have a doe with back feet similar to this and I could not figure out what was wrong. Narrow heels describes it perfectly for my doe.

Regarding this doe, especially the front hooves, is she trimming too much heel off and not enough toe?


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## mammabooh (Sep 15, 2011)

MF-Alpines said:


> Thanks for sharing the pics and those that commented. I have a doe with back feet similar to this and I could not figure out what was wrong. Narrow heels describes it perfectly for my doe.
> 
> Regarding this doe, especially the front hooves, is she trimming too much heel off and not enough toe?


I hope to try to correct this (at least partially) today. She is mad at me from messing with her so much lately that she can't/won't get on the milk stand. So, I'm going to get her to get up to the milkstand area (where there is concrete floor), sit on the floor to trim, and have my hubby there to restrain her.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Her back feet look turned over like one of my does. No amount of correcting fixes my girl. I have to keep her hooves really short. NO missing a trimming or it gets really bad.


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## mammabooh (Sep 15, 2011)

Well, I just got her trimmed up pretty good. She is standing a lot straighter, but she still walks like she is in a lot of pain. I'm hoping that it's just going to take a little while for her body to adjust. We'll see. Thanks for your help so far!


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## Tracy in Idaho (Oct 26, 2007)

Sorry, I am up to my knees in kids and does freshening right now....

Yes, this is bent leg in its very beginning form. Yes, you can fix it, and probably with just one shot. You have to get it from the vet, it is Rx and it is called Phos-Aid. If you pm me, I will set you up with dosage and how to give it. I have *completely* fixed legs that were MUCH MUCH worse. 

This has NOTHING to do with your hoof trimming.....although you do need to keep them well trimmed.


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## mammabooh (Sep 15, 2011)

Thanks. PM sent!


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## mammabooh (Sep 15, 2011)

Just wanted to update...I got the Phos-aid today and injected her with the recommended amount. Here's hoping it fixes her right up!


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

I hope so too, let us know the results!


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

I would not have known this to be the beginning stage of Bent Leg, as we dealt with front legs and not rear, thank you Tracy for that info, I learned something. 

I am hoping with you catching this in the beginning stages that the shot will work wonders for your doe. 

Tam


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Yes, keep us posted and add a pic when appropriate. Thanks.


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## mammabooh (Sep 15, 2011)

I will most certainly keep you updated and post pictures. Tracy said it will take two or three weeks to see improvement, and, if I don't see improvement in two, I can give another dose.


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## mammabooh (Sep 15, 2011)

I just wanted to update. This doe kidded last night with twin bucklings. Her legs don't look any different yet, but I'm still hoping that she'll get better.

I was very glad to see those babies in the pen when I went to check on her at 3:30 this morning. I had myself convinced that, with all of her issues the kids were going to be dead or deformed.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Congrats on the kids (even if they ARE boys)!


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