# Stitches?



## eliya (Mar 11, 2008)

Have any of you ever stitched up your goats yourself? What did you use? Where can one buy things for this?


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

I have never done it, but friends did a filly recently. They used clean fishing line. And flushed it really, really well before stitching. The filly had somehow gotten over into a cement water trough and cut herself all up. Just superficially. A farm call out here is $100 dollars, so they chose to do it themselves. All turned out well. I probably wouldn't have had the nerve to stitch an alert horse, but they said she did really well. 
Anita


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Vicki and Kaye both do stiches so if they don't answer pm them.


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

Have always done my own.

NO ONE SHOULD BE WITHOUT a staple gun!
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=c8593e04-7e14-431f-b59c-19ee54558c94
AND THE STAPLE REMOVER! It's just soooo much easier if it's just a small cut.

Larger lacerations will need the following:

1. A circle *cutting* needle. there's taper and cutting. Cutting is the easiest to get through the skin. (the larger the # the larger the needle) I use a # 2 cutting needle.
http://www.valleyvet.com/ZoomImage.aspx?img=group_images/27192_B.jpg
2. pair of needle holders with scissors. (A must to drive the needle through the skin and not let it slip or punch a finger.)
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e07ac4-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5
3. Either fishing line, polysorb #0 or 1-(absorbable), or unwaxed dental floss.
4. Chromic gut (0 or 1 is plenty for goats.) I use this for deep cuts to sew the layers of muscle back together.
4. Lidocaine- 1cc is PLENTY. (goats are really sensitive to lidocaine-it's best to mix it 1/2 & 1/2 sterile water and use a TB syringe to inject along the edges of the cut to deaden.
5. tweezers to hold the skin together as you sew.
LOTS OF PATIENCE and minimal help. FOCUS on doing a neat job, the scar demands it.

You can buy a package of suture from any vet. I'd get a package of absorbable and non-absorbable and chromic gut. Even E-bay generally has packages of many types. NO, THEY DON'T EXPIRE as noted on the package.

#1 warning...if you have to sew up a cut, please use clippers or scissors to cut away the hair...make it clean. 2. when you're putting in sutures you DO NOT have to use force to keep the skin together...just make the edges touch. Too tight sutures damages the skin tissue.

Valley Vet has a suture kit with the needle, and suture.
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e07554-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5

Any other questions...just ask.
Kaye


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Love love love my staple gun! In a pinch (hurricane, no electricty, no road open to the vet to get some lidocaine  you can give banmine to take the edge off the doe so you can stitch up anything, including the whole eyelid (not the best place for staples  Also each year when your order supplies, check out your sutures, mine hadn't been used or opened for so long that after the hurricane when I had to stitch Panzy's eye and Reds shoulder, mine were all gummed together. Vicki


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

I used to be able to sew really well. I wonder if that would transer over to stictching? Lidocaine. Is that red? Will my vet give me a fit for asking for it?
Anita


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

No, lidocaine is clear.
Depends on if your vet wants to sew up a goat or not. My drug vet wants nothing to do with the goats...other than a health certificate, so he's more than willing to sell me about anything.

I wouldn't think it'd be a big deal as it's not prohibited in food producing animals and it's not labled for specific animals.
Kaye


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Why not just get the powder and mix with sterile water or dmso Kaye? it is over the counter


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

I dunno'.? 
I've always used injectable lidocaine. I have about 60cc left in a 100ml bottle. I do have a Lidocaine gel 2%. I don't even have a clue where I got it...but, it's not as effective in deadening the tissue. Tried that...didn't work. Doe felt the needles going in and would jump and bleat, I stopped and gave the injections, then continued suture.
Kaye


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

They sell this is outback survival kits (sutures/needles/etc) believe they intend for you to just sprinkle the pd on the tissue and then stitch yourself up. but I really don't know.


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## Theresa (Oct 26, 2007)

I am not sure about that powder Sondra. Kaye, the gel really only works on mucas membranes so that is probable why it did not work on the does. If you have ever been to the dentist and had them put some gel stuff on you gums to numb it before giving you the shot, that gel is the lidicane gel. I think it is just not as concentrated as the injectible.
Theresa


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

:biggrin I can tell you, after MANY trips to the dentist, and *something?* rubbed on the gums....it STILL DOESN'T WORK! 

A 100ml bottle from valley vet is $2.95, it can't be a whole lot higher from a vet.
Kaye


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

> I can tell you, after MANY trips to the dentist, and *something?* rubbed on the gums....it STILL DOESN'T WORK!


Boy is that ever true.


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## Theresa (Oct 26, 2007)

Now you know why your doe was jumping around Kaye! She thought you were mad at her and just being mean! :rofl
Theresa


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## eliya (Mar 11, 2008)

Thanks everyone! For some reason I didn't get notification of the replies, so I didn't know that you all had answered my question. The reason I had asked is that I had a doeling who got her ear ripped by a dog. I'll try to post some photos in a moment. Anyway, I had never stitched anything before and didn't have anything that was designed for stitching. I ended up using cotton thread and a regular sewing needle. Boiled both of them before I used them. She is doing very well.


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## eliya (Mar 11, 2008)

O.K. Here's what I did and pictures to go along with the story...
Went out to do chores and saw one of my favorite doelings, Sapphire, with blood on her ear. Then I saw that about 2 inches of her ear was ripped:









So, I brought her into the house, washed the ear and put Tea Tree oil on it to kill bacteria and germs









I thought about trying to tape it as I was scared to think about stitching(!) and I don't have any kind of pain killer that I could give her or a local anesthetic, I but didn't think tape would stay on fur in the cold. After thinking about it for a while, I decided to give it a try. I put more tea tree oil on and then held a ziplock full of snow on her ear until my fingers went numb. I figured her ear would be good and numb if my fingers were. Then I got the sterilized needle and thread and began to sew. After two stitches she seemed to be feeling it and the ear was warm so back to the ice. Did that several times until I got all the stitches in.
Here are the pictures of after I stitched her:
















Sapphire was SOOOOOOOO good about the whole thing. She stood still the whole time and didn't cry once while I stitched her up. She did cry when I left the room though.  After sewing her up, I gave her as much garlic as she would eat (6 large cloves). This happened the day after Christmas. I have been putting tea tree oil on every day and giving her 3 cloves of garlic 2x per day. My greatest fear was of infection but she is doing great and her ear is almost completely healed up. I'll have to see if I can get an updated picture sometime. The only part that isn't going to completely close is the top part where you can see more pink. I think she'll have a small nick in her ear there. But it's a lot better than it would have been if I didn't do anything!!!
Here are some pictures of my sweet little Sapphire that were taken summer of '08:


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## Theresa (Oct 26, 2007)

Good job Eliya. I bet that pink area is just going to take longer to heal. It is probable healing more from the inside out. And if all she has is a little nick for a scar then that is by far better then if she had lost that section of the ear!
Theresa


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## eliya (Mar 11, 2008)

Thanks Theresa. I think the tip of the part that was ripped may not have had enough blood flow for it to heal - I think it shrunk a little. Like you said, a nick is better than that big chunk missing!


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## Theresa (Oct 26, 2007)

I bet you are right about the blood flow. And sometimes the tissue dies before it is reattached so it takes longer to heal. I would like to see a pic once it is healed. Did it mess up her tattoo?
Theresa


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## eliya (Mar 11, 2008)

I'm sure it messed up her tattoo, but I haven't thought to check. I don't show her, so it wouldn't matter too much for me. I will try to remember to take a picture once it's completely healed.


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

OMG! You DID wonderful! Especially on an ear! My luck...it would have formed a hematoma and sloughed completly out! I'm VERY impressed! Don't give up on the tea tree oil even if the spot looks like it's not going to heal. Sometimes those type of ^ cuts take longer to heal.'

GOOD JOB!
Kaye


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## ChristinaF. (Dec 2, 2008)

It looks terrific, Eliya!  Great job, and what a beautiful little doe too.
Christina


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Oh my what a wonderful job!! Hope I can have the courage to do that if ever needed.


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## eliya (Mar 11, 2008)

Thanks everyone. Sondra, believe me, I was shaking like a leaf. I never thought I could do it until I had to. But boy did my back and legs hurt the next day. I stood with her between my knees bending over her for at least a half hour. I'm sure it hurt her too although she didn't seem to mind it too much.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Isn't it amazing what we can do in emergencies? Adrenalin sure seems to flow at the right times.


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

Wow, I am really impressed! (And she is so cute!)


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## Goat Land (Nov 8, 2007)

You did a really good job!


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## SherrieC (Oct 26, 2007)

You did a great job, thank goodness she has a brave goat Mommy! : ) I really do like that doe, I remember you posting her photo before.


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## eliya (Mar 11, 2008)

Thanks everyone. Sapphire is one of my favorite doelings.


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## Secondairy (Aug 12, 2008)

It really does look great - what did you use for sutures? I always keep some 6 and 12 lb. test fishing line in my goat box just in case, along with dental floss. Fortunately, I have not had to sew up any of my goats!! :biggrin

Kelly


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## eliya (Mar 11, 2008)

I'm going to need to get something like that. All I had was a sewing needle and cotton thread.


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## KingsCoGoatGuy (Dec 20, 2008)

Great job. I don't think I would be able to do such a good job alone! I can only say thank goodness for strong fences and leash laws in our area!


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## goatdad (Mar 5, 2009)

I'm curious to know if people make a habit of draping the area to keep the sutures clean when you draw them through? I only know the protocols for suturing people and that is very important. My vet told me I didn't have to worry much about that with a dog.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2009)

I have not done a goat, but the dogs ear looks much better. :biggrin

I got it from jeffers. I always keep a couple around now and a staple gun. :biggrin


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## Patty13637 (Oct 26, 2007)

I have used quilting thread on a sheep once and super glue on a dog.

I now have the real stuff including lidocane . I will be ordering a staple gun also.

Patty


Patty


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

> I'm curious to know if people make a habit of draping the area to keep the sutures clean when you draw them through


The only time I will drape, is if I'm doing a really deep cut that I will be using chromic gut (or absorbable sutures) in muscle tissue, then overlaying those sutures with skin sutures. I certainly don't want bacteria drug into that wound. Skin sutures?...no. But I do surgically clip the area around the wound for at least 3-4" out, scrub with bedadine and wipe with alcohol, and try to keep it from dragging through the hair or touching the ground. I cut my suture to workable lengths.

Of course there are those that don't really give a darn what is dragged through the skin or into the wound, just load 'em up on antibiotics and hope for the best. Not my style.
Kaye


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

Great job, beautiful doe.

This is a job for leeches!!! I guess we should keep those in our med kits too now.

Oh and as far as draping, i would not worry about it in as dirty a situation as sewing up an ear unless all other factors could be sterile as well. that would include shaving the area to be sutured, scrubbing/flooding the wound, having sterile sutures and pick ups, sterile gloves and drapes and gown. In a dirty situation or even clean (clean but not sterile) situation, antibiotics will have to do the job after the fact. In a barn, the blowing air is carrying microbes (well, so is any air)...rambling here.


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## KingsCoGoatGuy (Dec 20, 2008)

Eliya, how is this doe coming along? Any updated pictures of her ear?


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

> This is a job for leeches!!! I guess we should keep those in our med kits too now.


 :rofl Is there a website to order some from? OH,WAIT...I have a pond, maybe when the weather warms a little I can locate some and add them to my med. kit. dance:

Maybe it's time for me to change my style?
Kaye


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## eliya (Mar 11, 2008)

KingsCoGoatGuy said:


> Eliya, how is this doe coming along? Any updated pictures of her ear?


Well, it didn't turn out too well. It didn't stitch itself back together like it should have. When I took the stitches out, she shook her head hard and it re-ripped. I tried the SG a couple times, but it never held. So, despite trying to fix it, she still as a strip of ear that hangs down. :nooo :/ :mad Oh well, she's still a beautiful girl and SOOOO sweet! The ear doesn't seem to bother her at all.


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