# question about feeding alfalfa pellets



## creekmom (Aug 6, 2010)

I have been reading up on the imbalance of calcium and phosphorus in the diet causing urinary calculi. Here is what my goats have been getting and please tell me if and what I need to do different. I sure don't want any problems caused by an imbalance. 

I have a pen of Nigerian Dwarf dry open does and wethers. They have free choice grass hay (coastal bermuda/Tifton 85 mix) and pasture. They have free choice Techmaster Complete Minerals. I have not been feeding them anything else (grain or otherwise) and they all look great, especially after switching them to the Techmaster minerals. Their body condition is very good. I have just now learned that grass hay can be high in phosphorus and if they are not getting anything alfalfa (hay or pellets) am I putting them at risk with this possible imbalance? I can't afford alfalfa but I can get the pellets. Am I understanding this right?

Next question is I have one ND that I am milking. She had been getting a 16% mare and foal sweet feed which I don't think the calcium/phosphurus ratio is right either. She is also in the same pen as the other dry does and wethers so gets the same free choice hay and pasture and minerals. I was thinking about switching her to just plain oats and alfalfa pellets on the milkstand. 3 parts alfalfa pellets to 1 part rolled oats. What does that sound like to yall? She won't eat alfalfa hay, can't afford it anyway. Should I top dress that with calf manna pro? 

Last question is I have two ND bucks that also get the same grass hay and minerals. They are in good condition and get no grain at all. Do they need any alfalfa pellets?

Sure seems like the more I know the less I know. I haven't had any problems with any urinary calculi or milk fever or any of those kinds of things but I also don't have a lot of goats either or may just be lucky nothing has happened. Just trying to make sure that I am doing things right when it comes to their feeding. 

I had a scare with my buck a couple of weeks ago and the vet thought he had a stone. Turns out that he didn't have a stone but that he has done something to his back causing him to have spasms. Anyway, all of the concerns of him having a stone got me to reading up on the proper balance of things.

Thanks so much for all of your great information.

Elizabeth


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

The only class of livestock you have that calcium is an issue with, is your wethers, your bucks and your milkers (does who are 100 days pregnant are your next concern this fall). Can you move your wethers in with your bucks? That way both the bucks and wethers have exactly the same nutritional needs, if your bucks grow out well without grain all the better. Bucks who aren't used heavily really never need grain and since we don't have weather where huge amounts of energy are needed to keep stock healthy during the winter. 

I do feed all stock on my property alfalfa pellets, but it also in place of alfalfa or other legume hay. I do not mix it into my grain mix, I feed it in the barns....my milkstand grain is grain for energy, fat, calories and carbs and protein....my alfalfa pellets are about protein and calcium, nothing more. If your milkstand grain already has a good protein in it, than you can get away with some of the lesser protein alfalfa pellets that are much cheaper. You can see a huge difference in your stock by just feeding them 1 pound of alfalfa pellets daily.

Make your feed change slowly, in fact I try not to make changes on milkstand grain except during the dry period, so if you want to read more and make changes when your does are 100 days pregnant, that is when I would do my milkstand change. Your hay you are feeding although high in protein does not have the qualities of alfalfa, even talking to nutritionists they will tell you that although you can match the numbers of calcium, protein, etc...in hays, alfalfa simply has something to it that is for dairy animals. Why alfalfa is so key, even if it's just  alfalfa pellets. Vicki


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## creekmom (Aug 6, 2010)

I bought a bag of alfalfa pellets from the local feed store. The pellets are really big in size and my girl didn't like them at all. I thought I had read in someone's post about TSC selling a small alfalfa pellet. Does anyone know which brand that would be? Thanks.


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## Hickoryneck (Jul 29, 2011)

I have been thinking of adding Alfalfa Pellets to my feeding program since I only have grass hay. How much do you feed per head a day?


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## Horsehair Braider (Mar 11, 2011)

A smaller alfalfa pellet can sometimes be found when asking for pellets for rabbits. Sometimes they think you are feeding either cows or horses.


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## Candy (Jun 4, 2009)

Hickoryneck said:


> I have been thinking of adding Alfalfa Pellets to my feeding program since I only have grass hay. How much do you feed per head a day?


We feed 3 pounds per day per head.


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

I buy the Standlee Alfalfa pellets from TSC. The pellets are a little bigger than the TSC brand or what I can get locally, but they are better quality and there is no dust. All the others have a ton of dust.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

I use the Standlee pellets too, they are pretty big. They are pretty cheap for me though, since the alfalfa for those is grown in my area. They seem to be better quality than the small ones I can find around here. Also, I noticed that the pellets at the feedmill here have wheat in them also....what the heck is up with that? Anyway, I like them best, and my goats like them too.


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

I feed 2 parts alfalfa 1 part oats as a grain ration (approx 1lb per head per day) with grass hay. Haven't really evaluated it for milk production, but it seems to be adequate for maintenance. I've wondered if I could just do alfalfa pellets and grass hay, but the goats do seem to look for the oats. I just don't really understand what the grain provides. The alfalfa pellets have higher protein, 17%. Can anyone comment on the benefit of providing grain, such as oats?


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Grain provides energy and phosphorus. It is possible to get too high a Ca ratio. The energy in grain is more available than the energy in hay/hay pellets. Energy comes from two places, fats and carbs. Ruminant animals can get energy from fiber (unlike monogastrics), but they still will not be able to obtain as much energy per unit of feed from a hay as a grain. So, they can eat less to get the same amount of energy from a grain product. Some classes of goats (milking, heavily pregnant), may not be able to eat enough hay to meet their energy needs, and they will lose condition, which will in turn cause them to milk less or have kidding issues. Hay/other fibrous material (pasture, browse) is still important for rumen function, however, so that one reason you cannot only feed grain. You may be able to feed hay only to maintain condition on animals that are not working (milking, etc.), but it is pretty difficult on a working animal.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Make sure you are actually talking about maintenance. Dry does, wethers, unused bucks or lightly used bucks, bucks not in rut, bred does before they turn 100 days pregnant....those are maintenance animals. Growing kids, does in the last 50 days of pregnancy and milkers, heavily used bucks and bucks coming out of rut, those are the animals that you grain. Grain is for, carbs, calories, energy and fat, all needed when the goats are not just pasture ornaments. Your not going to get any top 10 awards feeding just oats, but my girls milk well, look great and my milk customers and us like the more natural diet and also knowing exactly what is in the milk.

Your first and foremost goal is to supply the best hay and browse you can....grain should do nothing more than compliment the hay. If you are feeding grass hay than you have to use your grain for protein and calcium...it's easier on the doe to get both of these things from alfalfa hay or alfalfa pellets rather than calcium carbonate and sorbate in her grain or mineral mix, proteins from cottonseed meal, soybeans, fish and feather meal. The grain will also improve the fat, calories and energy in the hay. Does who are fed grass hay only when in milk, will milk, but certainly not what they will if fed grain and alfalfa in some form, or they will milk well on just hay, and look like walking skeletons as they strip their body fat to produce that milk.

Very honestly the fat condition most goats are in to show, is simply wasted money, just keep the does you want to show in this condition, and keep the main herd lean, your goats will live longer lives and will be healthier in their old age. It's hard to get out of the Texas mentality that bigger is better, it's not in dairystock.

The hardest part of this is finding stock that can live on your management. I won't sell parts of my herd to homes where the girls are expected to forage for most of their food, then are given grass hay....with high multiples and LOTS of milk, they simply can't sustain the end of pregnancy without the calcium from alfalfa. Why when you do purchase stock, do so from somebody who knows the lines well, who is already feeding them etc...the way you will be doing. The very nice thing about the miniatures is the feed conversion, the amounts of grain they need on the milkstand past alfalfa is minuscule compared to their larger cousins. Vicki


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

Excellent information!


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

So if I am doing alfalfa and oats as my concentrate and I wanted to provide more energy for certain harder working animals, what would be the best way - would it be better to provide more concentrate altogether or add on something like calf manna? 

I know the alfalfa isn't really grain, but I mix it 2:1 to have the right Ca ratio. Initially I did corn, oats, BOSS, alfalfa, but the mixing was alot of work, and they seem to do as well on oats and alfalfa.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I visited with the, then new, nutritionist at the mill in Bryan....I had a business partner at the time, he has since sold out and we were going to have feed mixed. In sharing with him how I do things now, and what I wanted to have mixed, I was already feeding about a 5to1 calcium to phos ration, this was not including roughage or grass hay the goats have 24/7 and couldn't tell you how much they eat of it. Calf manna or the much cheaper knock offs of it, are really nothing more than an excellent vitamin and mineral soy pellet. It is VERY high in protein, with 17% alfalfa pellets do you need to add more protein? And if so for what, does protein make milk, grow out your milkers more? I know many on here feed not only high protein alfalfa hay but also high protein by product pellets also. Maybe they can help you with that. Of course feeding like that has it's place if you are going after top 10 DHIR.


I purchase a dry grain mix (also called an allgrain, better quality than COB because it also has minerals in it). It is mostly oats, corn and some barley. It is about $3 per #50 less than whole oats because of the volume it goes through my feed store, so much so that you pretty much have to be on a regular schedule of buying it, to get bags. From time to time it contains a small amount of alfalfa pellets, other times it does not. Right now it does. To this 12% allgrain I add rice bran pellets to take my fat up to 5%. That an alfalfa pellets, nearly free choice (except for the bucks who get an 8 quart bucket of them for 3 boys from 1 to 7 years) minerals, hay and browse.

I love freeding raw products, just recently a gal pelleted the mix I use, it lasted 1 milling and now she is not doing it, so I just went right back to mixing.....if the feed dealer stopped buying the feed, I can go down the road and buy exactly the same thing, if the mill stops mixing it I can go and buy my own whole oats, crimped barley and rolled corn and mix it myself....so there is consistency in my goats feed always...and goats thrive on consistency. Vicki


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

Thanks for the info! Sounds like I could tweak things a little with rice bran to provide more fat and allow more alfalfa pellets. I agree with you. I really like being able to get what I need anywhere.


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## Hickoryneck (Jul 29, 2011)

My goats won't eat oats :lol


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

I never met a goat that wouldn't eat oats! Mine prefer whole grain oats or barley over any pellets any day! Just give them time, they will eat them. Mix them in with your pellets. They just don't know yet what they are missing!


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

I had a dream last night that I abandoned our pelleted ration and switched to oats as the sole source of grain. :lol However, I've seen oats at our feed dealer and was surprised at the cost- they're actually a couple dollars more expensive than the 16% dairy goat ration we're feeding. Is this (as with all things) something that varies drastically by region or are you Texas folks feeding higher priced (vs. dairy goat rations) oats because you're that satisfied with the results? Should I be looking somewhere other than my feed dealer?


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## Hickoryneck (Jul 29, 2011)

I don't care if they don't like oats barley is cheaper in my area. I use all whole grains and Barley has always been our main grain we tried oats one time years ago but they didn't like it they also do not like milo or millet. Barley was called the goat cereal by the old timers so there must be a reason.


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

Oats and alfalfa are cheaper here than 16% goat ration or the 14% mare and foal I used to feed. I switched cause prices on the mixed feed got too high for me. I am estatic with the results of what I'm doing now. My old grade Nubian is glistening like she's been wiped with show sheen and giving more milk when I would be expecting less.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Think about it.....how are they taking oats, barley, corn etc...that are all in the $12 to $15 range, slurrying it together, extruding it, drying it, handling it 3 more times, and then selling it for cheaper than the raw product? Maybe because there isn't any oats, corn or barley in milking ration by product pellets  You also feed less real grain than byproduct feed pellets.

We have tons of saved info on nutrition, PAV's info is so valuable to those who are feeding grain rather than a lactation pellet. Feeding whole oats as a sole source of feed is fine, as long as all your protein is coming from excellent alfalfa, as long as you are dealing with vitamin and mineral defficency with something more than a very basic loose mineral.

Make all feed changes super slow, does who are used to eating ground feeds, do not have the rumen flora to eat and absorb the nutrients out of real grain, it can take weeks to switch them over, always remember you are dealing with ruminants.


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