# Question about kids born premature



## Qvrfullmidwife (Oct 25, 2007)

We are in the middle of a family debate, here.

Has any ever had kids born more than a few days premature and lived? 

WITH documented, no questions breeding and due dates?

What is the earliest possible for kids to be born and survive *easily*, as in no tubing needed, teeth erupted, etc?

???


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

think I read somewhere 10 days don't know where tho


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## SherrieC (Oct 26, 2007)

I have a doe kid out in the barn who was 7 days early, no teeth erupted her and her sister were almost 4 lbs at birth, they both did fine on a pritchard teat.


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2007)

I had a doeling survive being born 16 days early. She was actually quite healthy. She couldn't stand for several days but didn't need any heroic efforts to try to save her or keep her alive. She was tube feed colostrum once but had a sucking reflex and moved to a bottle on the second feeding.

I realize that this the the exception rather than the norm.

Sara


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## Katarina (Oct 25, 2007)

We had two bucks born at what would be 3 weeks early. Teeth fully erupted, 7 1/2 lbs each, hale and hearty, not looking early at ALL. The debate is this (it has been raging for over half a year, now, lol)...were these 3 week early kids that miraculously did fantastic or was this doe bred through the fence by a 5 month old buck who spent the entire one day that he was on the other side of the fence getting the #*^%^& beat out of him by the herd queen?

It is kind of a moot point, we will know soon enough anyway via DNA but we were just rehashing this and taking bets again today and I was challenged to bring it to the forum and ask the experience of others.


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2007)

Sounds to me like they are full term kids, not kids that were born premature.

All of the kids that I have had born early look premature. Teeth not erupted, small, struggling to stand, etc.

I think you have a very resourceful (and determined!) buck. 

Let us know what the DNA test shows.

Sara


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## Katarina (Oct 25, 2007)

That is what *I* want to hear! (Qvrfullmidwife here) The 5 month old buck in question was our Lynnhaven buck that was killed in a dog attack before we saw any of his kids.


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## Katarina (Oct 25, 2007)

And they really did NOT look early in any way shape or fashion, but we have two seemingly impossible scenarios to chose from :lol


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2007)

I hope if turns out like you want it to. Are we talking about Nubains here?

Sara


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Sounds to me like they were NOT premies


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## Qvrfullmidwife (Oct 25, 2007)

Nope, lamanchas :lol


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

I had a doe kid 10 days early with triplets. The two bucklings were dead when I found them The doeling only required one tube feeding and then nursed the bottle just fine. I had 7 day early twins who were able to feed from their dam and were healthy from the start. My friend had an eleven day early doeling who was tube fed her first meal and nursed her bottle thereafter.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Well I am sure Ariel had hers early because they were tiny couldn't stand or suck I didn't tube them but syringed every two hrs for a couple of days before they could latch on to a bottle and the doeling took forever to get on her feet. Both are alive and well now.


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## Katarina (Oct 25, 2007)

Yeah, but these were indistinguishable from the kids that were born exactly on their due date. 7 1/2 lbs, teeth, standing within minutes, bouncing off the walls within a day.

The doe went into labor 3 weeks prior to her duedate according to whenshe went into the pen with the buck. We expected dead or dying kids. They were, to all appearances, fullterm, so we wracked our brains. We remembered that three weeks before she went in with the buck she spent about 12 hours on the other side of the fence from our 5 month old Lynnhaven buck. We had put our herd queen in the adjacent pen with the young buck because we thought she was in heat and wanted to seize the opportunity. There was no opportunity seized onbehalf of the herd queen because she spent the entire 12 hours beating the snot out of the young lad, in fact, everytime we checked on them, the buckling was hiding in the corner furthest from the herd queen and the adjacent pen. So...we never even considered that he could have bred through the fence when he wasnt even trying to do his stuff withthe herd queen, in fact seemed terrified of the does in general!

And those were the only two bucks on the property; the only 2 possibilities for breeding.

So...we had two seemingly impossible scenarios...a doebred by a very young buck through a cattle panel while he was getting beat upon the other side by the herd queen OR 3 week early kids looking like kids born right on time.

We can't WAIT to get the results of the DNA. When teh Lynnhaven buck was killed I was kicking myself for not having used him on the dbl Tumult granddaughter. When we were presented with this possibility...oh my! This would make my day...week....month?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I sure hope you didn't go through ADGA for your DNA. Because if you don't have DNA to test on your Lynnhaven buck, just that they don't match the sire you have won't give you registered kids. You can't just say...OK they don't match buck A so they have to match buck B...I didn't go through ADGA with Debut last year, so I could get my own results back, and do with the test what I wanted, and also didn't have to test Pi. So if they don't match your live buck, and your Lynnhaven buck is not on record, you have grade kids. Vicki


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## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

3 weeks early.....That's 21 days... sounds a little fishy to me. Sounds like they were full term. I bet she was bred a cycle early.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

In giving the girls their CD&T and bo-se shots about 3 weeks before the first doe was due, I noticed how huge Poptart was (Purebred Nubian), she always started making milk really early, and about a week from her due date I always milked her because she would get soo congested if I did not. I made a mental note to check her udder tommorrow because I think I am going to have to start already! She kidded the next day, with a bucking (yeah, he was deposited) 2 doelings (yeah)! So I am freaking she is soo early, she hadn't even gone into the pen with the buck yet, so she was 3 weeks early....not! the kids were fine.

I brought them in the house, to feed them colostrum, I didn't even have my kidding stuff together yet, and in picking up the buck to give him a really good look over before calling the new owner with the wonderful news, I remember thinking how strange it was that her being a red roan and the buck being from a very black and white family that these kids were very very white with some red...just like nearly all of Joni's LAMANCHA kids looked, then I saw he had no ears....

Sometime in July one of the LaMancha bucks had gotten in with her and bred her and then went back home....or she visited the buck pen, was bred and taken back home, or someone who nobody fesses up to, bred her and put her back. But to this day I have no idea how she got bred let alone to a LaMancha, and no bucks even on the fenceline.

I called the owner and told her no bucks were born in that kidding, would she like her second choice 

So I doubt they are premie's and I have watched bucks try to get the right angle to breed through cattle panels for years, never. 

Perhap devine intervention? Vicki


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## Katarina (Oct 25, 2007)

"Perhap devine intervention? "

Or something! :lol

Vicki...that is interesting re ADGA and DNA. I called them and explained the situation with there being 2 possibilities for sire, one being now dead. They said simply "DNA the living possible sire and if he proves to not be the sire then list the dead buck as sire".

Hmmm...havent done it yet, paid for it through ADGA but they havent gotten the stuff to me yet...

Guess I'll call back to confirm and poss change how I proceed.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

"DNA the living possible sire and if he proves to not be the sire then list the dead buck as sire".
...........................

That will be great if they will just do it. But it certainly is not the rule, it is who is the sire, not who you think, or since it's the only buck left. Hopefully it won't have to come to committee, because you will have to prove the sire. Vicki


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## Katarina (Oct 25, 2007)

Guess we can go digging in the back pasture for hair for him...ick


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## Oregonian Chick (Oct 26, 2007)

Katie I am dying to know...any news yet?

Justine


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## Katarina (Oct 25, 2007)

Nope, still waiting for paper work or something. (I have been out of the house as much as I have been in it the past 2 months.) So really don't know the full details. But we will be sure to share since there are a number of people wanting to know.


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

Yes, "Who's Your Daddy" needs a more respectable name. "Maury Povich" has a more grown up sound....and DH says "DNA" for "Do Not Ask". How bout "Jerry Jerry!"


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## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

To respond to the "how young of a preemie?"...

2 weeks early with a Boer doe. She "went down" (she had cast herself 3 weeks prior, seemed to be fine, then crashed on me) and then went into early labor. Gave her DEX and then when her cervix allowed only 1 hoof we lutelysed her.

The 2 bucklings (of course!) couldn't stand, but had excellent suck reflexes. Kept them in the house for 2 weeks for frequent feedings and to keep the body temp more easily stable. they both did great and kept one as a Jr. Herd sire. Very nice.


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