# bleu cheese



## mulish (Apr 26, 2009)

Has anyone made the blue cheese recipe found here in the cheese recipes sticky? Was it good/successful? If not, do you have a better or preferred recipe for a blue?

thanks!


----------



## linuxboy (Oct 26, 2009)

Depends on what style of blue you want to do. In addition to different roqueforti strains and culture selection, the make specifics differ among stilton style, roquefort, gorgonzola, Danish, buttermilk, etc. What style are you targeting and with what type of milk? The recipe in the sticky is not bad and would produce a slightly crumbly, drier (as opposed to soft/creamy) cheese with poor veining. But blue flavor would be good. Ideal salad and cooking cheese or good cheese for someone who likes blue flavor but doesn't like to see the mold.

If you let me know your target for blue flavor and texture, I can help with the ingredients and make details. Hard to post preferred recipes because I like them all.


----------



## mulish (Apr 26, 2009)

thanks, pav!

something soft like a saga blue, but doesn't have to have a rind - one that doesn't have to age forever is a plus!

jc


----------



## Bernice (Apr 2, 2009)

Blue cheese is my favorite cheese. Hated it as a kid. But growing up near Buffalo and the chicken wing capitol, well, I developed a love for it. Tried to make it once, that was a disaster.


----------



## mulish (Apr 26, 2009)

disasters are pretty common in my cheesemaking, bernice! i just keep plugging away at it.


----------



## linuxboy (Oct 26, 2009)

Min for blue cheeses is 60 days. Really hard to be earlier than that. There's this tipping point where some tasty cheese magic happens from 45 to 60 days. It'll be edible before, just not great.

A Saga blue is _drastically_ different from the blue recipe in the sticky. A saga blue is, from what I recall, a double cream blue cheese from Denmark that is soft, sort of like a Saint Agur. To achieve this texture, you need to use quite a bit of cream, about 1 pint per gallon of milk, and a high flocculation multiplier. It is like a cross between a double creme brie and a blue, except without the heavy brie-type flavor and texture.

Take:

1 gal milk
1 pint cream, non ultrapasteruized. TJs sells this or skim from a few milkings if you have milk.
1/16 tsp roqueforti or reculture from purchased saga
1/4 tsp DVI culture for a mild acidifier like flora danica, and a pinch of additive culture that produces diacetyl flavors like leuconostoc
CaCl2 if needed
1/4 tsp single strength or 1/8 tsp double strength in 1/4 cup ice cold distilled water.


Add the culture and roqueforti to the milk+ cream and let it sit for 30-45 mins. During this time slowly bring the milk up to temp to 88F. At 88F, add the rennet+ water and wait for flocculation. Use 6x flocculation multiplier. At end of proper time based on multiplier, cut to 2" curds. The curd will be rather fragile but should hold together. Wait for 15 minutes for the curds to firm up. Heat to 92F over half an hour, stirring gently to break up the curds a little and help them lose moisture. Scoop out the curds with a ladle into a mold, like a tall camembert mold and let them drain under their own weight. Flip every 30 minutes for 2 hours, then every hour for 3-4 hours. Target a pH of 4.6-4.9. At the end of 6-12 hours, the curds should have compacted and formed a wheel and acidity should be below 5. Wait more if it is not below 5. Take out the wheel(s) and put them into a bowl and break them up into large chunks. This is to create some openings. Salt with 1-1.25 tsp salt. mix the curds and salt, then take the curds and repack into the mold. Let them sit in the mold for a day at room temp of about 65-70F. Unpack and smooth out the sides.

Then move to aging room at 55 F and 90-92% RH. Wait 4 weeks, scraping off mold if it gets too aggressive. After 1-2 weeks, poke holes. Wait another 4 weeks and eat.

This should give you a close approximation. You can also hang the curd to drain, then mill, salt, and pack into molds. There are other sagas, like their blue brie, and that's made differently where the candidum is sprayed on the cheese after a day or two, so you get a softer, spreadable cheese with veining and white rind.

A Danish style like this requires some babying. Might not be the best first blue to make. Maybe try making a regular no-added-cream stilton first? Let me know if you need help. I don't have my recipes all written down, so I typed that out for you based on what I remember. Tried not to miss anything.


----------



## mulish (Apr 26, 2009)

pav. you're right. i need simple. i like the idea of reculturing from purchased cheese - is this difficult? can i just add roqueforti to my flora danica chevre and age it and stab it at some point?


----------



## linuxboy (Oct 26, 2009)

Had the recipe unclear before. Modified after jc's comments. Sorry, jc. Hope this version is more clear and has pointers for what you should look for in a blue cheese during the make.

When you've successfully made chevre, you can re-use some of the techniques in chevre making and adopt them to making a blue cheese. The changes need to be made to accommodate the differences between the two cheese styles. The differences include:


Whereas chevre is a semi-lactic cheese with just a little bit of rennet to help hold it together, a blue is a full rennet cheese that uses rennet to help hold the curds together. They need to hold together because like chevre, a blue needs to be fully acidified to a pH of 4.6-4.8, or the blue mold will not grow well. The blue mold eats lactic acid.
To make a chevre, you let it sit and let the culture do its thing for a while, then when the acid coagulates it, you let it drain in a mold or bag. With a blue, the rennet makes it coagulate faster. So you can let it drain much sooner. And instead of letting the acid build up and coagulate, you use rennet, and then let the acid build up over time.
A chevre is drained after all the acid is built up. With a blue, you drain it slowly, so that the point where the acid is done should coincide with the point that all the whey has drained off.
You control the moisture level in chevre by controlling how long its drained and at what temp and what size of mold or bag you use. You control the moisture level in blue primarily by waiting with a 4x-6x flocculation multiplier before you ladle or cut the curd, and then checking to see how its draining to stop when it's dry enough.

To make a blue cheese, you have to select the tradeoffs you want. Do you want a crumbly blue cheese or an ultra soft one that spreads like butter? Do you want a lot of openings inside and very heavy marbling or just a few openings with a mild blue taste? If you're new, it's best to make a few middle-ground cheeses that are moderately marbled with a mild flavor, and then try new changes to tweak a recipe to your liking. Some later tweaks can include adding adjunct cultures for buttery flavor, such as leuconostoc or diacetylactis, or changing the milk profile by adding cream.

The basic recipe for a stilton-like cheese is as follows:

Tools:
4-5" diameter mold. A blue should be taller than it is wide, especially true for lower fat blues, else they dry out too much. If you use a larger mold, like a 6", use more milk. 6" needs 2-3.5 gallons. 8" needs 4.5+
colander
cheesecloth you can hang to drain curd
standard ones for cheesemaking: ladle, thermometer, pot, way to measure out rennet, cup to dilute rennet, etc
Cup that floats, like an empty yogurt cup, sanitized

Ingredients, for the most basic recipe:
1 gallon of milk, 1% storebought, with 1/2 cup cream, or whole milk if you know it makes good curds, or raw. Use 1% because it has not been as damaged from homogenization.
1/4 tsp CaCl2 solution if your milk needs it and you get a poor set
1/4 tsp single strength rennet or 1/8 tsp double strength, dissolved in 1/4 cup distilled ice cold water
1-1.5 tsp salt, to taste.
1/4 tsp mesophilic culture, such as MM100, Kazu, or FD, or 1/3 cup buttermilk
1/16 tsp p roqueforti culture, or a 2-4" cube of existing blue cheese cut out with a sanitized knife

1) Gather all your stuff in one place and sanitize everything.
2) Warm the milk up to 88F-90F.
3) Add the CaCl2 solution, if using. Sprinkle the DVI culture, if using that, or dilute the buttermilk with some milk in a cup, mix, and pour it in.
4) If using a blue cheese to inculate, take some of the milk and the blue, and puree together, or smash up together until it is well blended and no chunks remain. If using blue DVI culture, sprinkle on top of the milk. Stir everything in the pot to mix up.
5) Let it ripen for 45 min. pH should be about 6.4-6.5. If not, wait until it is.
6) Add rennet diluted in water; note the time. Put the yogurt cup on top of the milk and go away for 5 minutes. When you come back nudge the cup, it should move. When you nudge it and it does not move, note the time it has taken from adding rennet to when the cup doesn't move. When the surface gels, this is called flocculation.
7) Multiply the time it takes to flocculate by 5 to get the total time you should wait from the point you added rennet, to the point you start ladling the curd.
8 ) Wait that time, it should be 50-90 minutes. Your pH should have dropped to about 6.25 or lower. If it has not, wait some more until it hits pH 6.25, but no more than a 7x multiplier. If you reach 7x, that means you need to use more culture next time.
9) Take a ladle and start scooping your curds into a draining bag or into molds. Ladling instead of cutting helps to keep all of the fat and solids in the curd, and lets the whey drip off slowly. If using a bag, it's easier to work with if you use about 2 gallons per bag. If using molds, get very tall molds, at least a 2:1 ratio between the diameter and height (4" diameter mold means 8" high, similar to what you use for cam) so that the curds press under their own weight.
10) Let the curds drain in a warm room, at least 68 degrees F. If possible, let some of the whey touch the bottom, to let more bacteria and lactose be in contact with the curd so it continues to acidify. If using molds to drain, flip them every 30 minutes for 2-4 flips, then every 1-2 hours. You want good, even drainage. If using bag(s), check on them every few hours and if it seems like the outside is draining too fast and the inside is too wet, gently push the outside in so the inside is exposed to the side of the cheesecloth.
11) Leave the curds to drain overnight. You need the acidity to build up. If using molds, you can let them be and stop flipping and go to sleep after they have decreased by at least 25-30%
12) Check the curd and break off a piece. It should be acidic, like a chevre, but not like a tart yogurt. Taste it to see. The pH should be 4.6-4.8. 
13) When it is sour and dry enough, the curd will hold its shape, but also break off easily into chunks.
14) Break up the curds into 1-2" pieces. Reserve some of the curd for later.
15) Salt the curd with 1-1.5 tsp of salt per gallon of milk. This is about a moderate amount. Taste the curd. If this tastes not salty enough, add salt. I like about 1.5 tsp. Pack the curd loosely into a mold so there are openings, do not press in on it. Put the follower on top of the cheese and just gently press and twist it so it creates a smooth surface.
16) Leave the cheese in the mold for 1-2 days. During this time, the blue mold wakes up, starts working, some more whey drains, and the cheese compacts and comes together. 
17) Unmold the cheese wheel. Take the leftover curd you have. It should have gaps on the sides, and maybe the top and bottom. Using the leftover curds you have, take a spatula and fill in all the gaps so it is smooth everywhere. This helps to form an even rind.
18) Put the cheese in an aging chamber where the temp is 55F and the humidity is 90-92%. You should have blue mold growth within a few days.
19) After 10 days, pierce the cheese with a sanitized stainless ice pick or skewer. 
20) Check on it every 3-5 days. If it is too moist, open the lid of your aging box a little so the moisture goes out. When you check on it, re-pierce the openings. You want oxygen to go in there. When you open the lid to check on it, that lets oxygen in. You can also pierce once if you want less veining and a milder blue taste.

Age it for at least 60 days. 90 days is best. If the blue starts being too scary, you can scrape it off a little or keep the lid partly uncovered to slow it down by lowering the humidity. You can also lower the temp to 48-50.


----------



## mulish (Apr 26, 2009)

excellent! thanks!


----------



## kuwaha (Aug 22, 2009)

ooh a bleu brie sounds wonderful... (may I interupt jc?) do you have a recipe for that too pav please?? and can you make brie in a solid plastic mold (it came with the press) or does it have to have the holes in the sides?


----------



## linuxboy (Oct 26, 2009)

I could give you the make details, but it's not an easy cheese to get right. You're battling two aggressive molds, the white and blue penecillins, and they're sensitive to salt, humidity, temp... so many things can go wrong. If I may humbly suggest, make both several bries and several blues first to get a feel for both kinds, and then try a combo. Otherwise, I'll likely lose you in the make and affinage steps.

You need a mold that drains whey from the sides to make a brie. The whey drains over 4-6 hours and the curd acidifies, pressed under its own weight. The whey will have nowhere to go if there are no holes.


----------



## mulish (Apr 26, 2009)

pav, 
I've made this recipe per instructions twice in the last 24 hours (this one: Warm up milk to 88 F and add some meso culture per recommended rate on the packet. Usually 1/8 tsp per gallon. Take your purchased blue, cut a chunk out, take some of the milk, ladle into a cup, and smash the blue cheese. . .)
and am having trouble with the curd. I've never made cheese like this, but I don't think that it is supposed to be rubbery! 
Approx 2.5 gal milk (straight out of goat - SOOG) each time, used labeled 'liquid animal' rennet (3 drops - year old) 1st attempt: no flocc. after 20 min, so added 1/4 tab rennet. curd was still nice at cutting, dipping, but matted into rubberyness pretty quickly in drain cloth. fed to chickens.
2nd attempt: used 1/4 tab only & a couple of hours into draining still had rubbery curd, though not as bad. salted & molded - but am wondering if this batch is chicken food too! you said that the curd should resemble chevre, and it is not a creamy paste like chevre that I am used to.
how can I have curds that I can "gently stir" without shattering, that don't end up like this - unless, of course, slightly rubbery is what I'm supposed to get! edited to add: whey is whitish.
please advise.
thanks!
jc


----------



## linuxboy (Oct 26, 2009)

Sorry, I should have given more clear instructions. My thoughts go faster than my fingers. I'm trying to write down my recipes so everything is clear and foolproof. I meant to type that you should let this hang in a bag or ladle into a mold to drain until it acidifies more. It's not quite like chevre when it's done, but it's not rubbery, either. 

Let me try to explain where the three important parts are in blue: the first is how long you wait before cutting, the second is when you drain the whey, and the third is how long you let it hang together before salting.

For the first, you need to wait with a 4x-6x multiplier before cutting. The range depends on the milk... sometimes 6x is too much and the curd is too moist. 

The second has to do with how much acid is built up in the pot before you fuse the curds together. If you don't wait enough, the curds will fuse together really well, and be somewhat plastic in the end, even if you let them drain and acidify. This is because you're removing the lactose from the bacteria... and there are not enough bacteria to finish a complete acidification. In my recipe, I assumed you were using raw milk, and suggested 1/8 tsp as the proper amount per gallon. If you have very clean milk, or if it is pasteurized, you may need more culture. It should acidify rather quickly so you don't wait 2 hours for the curds to reach the proper pH before draining. If you drain too early, it is not as bad as salting too early, but it will need to be together and hang longer and in a warmer spot for the acid to build up.

The third is when you break up the curd and salt it. When you do this, the curd should be easy to pull apart in chunks, yet retain its shape. Not exactly mush like drained chevre, but close. It may take a long time for this to take place, maybe even a day or two. You can also try salting just the outside, but the inside marbling will not be as extreme as when you break up curds.

Let me take 15 mins and clean up that post to be very clear and exact and include pointers for the things you look for to get this right. Sorry, it was just a quick post 

If your whey is whitish, means it's not holding together well and you need to add some more rennet, or cut to smaller pieces. You don't have to stir that much with this recipe as a hard cheese, because you hang the curd to acidify and the whey can drain out then.


----------

