# Goat laying down



## Dav (Apr 26, 2011)

Daisy had two kids four days ago, is feeding her kids, the male died, don't think it got enough feed. Now Daisy is laying down a lot & seems to have ahard time getting up. Her bag & teats seem swollen & a little red,
She doesn't want to get on the milking stand, but forced her on it to relieve the pressure this morning.
Have started bottle feeding the doe to make sure she is getting enough milk, but this morning she would;t take any, so guess she's getting enough from mother.
Should have milked & bottle feed from the start I guess.
What should I be doing?
Dav


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Is she eating normally? What is her diet? What is her temp? Is she shaking or shivering, particularly in the hindquarters? I would get some CMPK from the vet and start her on that as it could be milk fever. Right time for it. Or could be a nasty case of mastitis. The temp will give a clue, low is indicative of hypocalcemia, high, infection.

Is there any milk in the blood at all? Does the udder or teats in particular feel cold?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

If you haven't been milking her out, this could be something simple like she is congested. Full they are in pain, and with only one kid nursing on her this young, they simply can't empty both sides.

Take her temp, milk her out a few times a day for at least a week. She continues to make milk so you are not robbing her kid on her.

If you have some banamine give it to her.

If this was milkfever, she would not have gotten up, she would not have gotten on the milkstand without help because they are so unsteady and she would have had no milk, her kid would have taken the bottle because it would have been starving.

So start with the swollen udder and teat...milk her, if you have banamine give it to her 1cc per 100 pounds right before milking time to take the edge off. Maybes some really warm compresses on the udder before you milk her, grind up some vitamin C and sprinkle a tablespoon over her milkstand feed twice a day for awhile. 

But you biggest clue is always her temp.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Dav, how is your doe?


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## Dav (Apr 26, 2011)

Last night Daisy refused to get on the milking stand, so I fed her in her stall, no milking.
Her & the kid seem to be doing OK.
How can I milk off the stand?
When will she get back on the stand.
She seems OK now, just doesn't want to be milked by me.
Dav


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Perhaps she's not really ok? Did you get a temp? Is her udder hot?


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## Dav (Apr 26, 2011)

This morning there looking fine.
Can't get on the stand, so tied her to the fence, the baby nursed one & I milked the other, only got about a cup full, so I think she is producing lees milk now and is feeling OK. 
She's starting to blat more offen like I'm used to.
I was surprised she made no noise while giving birth or afterward, the quietest she's even been.
I think things are OK now, thanks guys.
Dav
Dav


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## Dav (Apr 26, 2011)

The tempertuer is about 100


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Is she getting alfalfa everyday?

A low temp like that, not milking very well and balking at normal routines like jumping up on a milkstand is all signs of milkfever. Do you have some CMPK injectable? Or calcium gluconate is cheap and was at my local Tractor supply last week, it's also an injectable. Vicki


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## Dav (Apr 26, 2011)

OK Vicki, got a bottle of 23% solution calcium gluconate ,how should I proceed?
Dav


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## Dav (Apr 26, 2011)

Just checked temp 101.4, tied up so kid could feed, she only sucked about a minute & was done.


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## Dav (Apr 26, 2011)

New thermometer 101.4 at noon. Her udder is quite warm to the touch.


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## Laverne (Apr 4, 2010)

Her temp is not bad at the 101.4 but it may be good to give the CG now because she did go to 100. The dosage is 30cc calcium gluconate every six hours till the temp improves and she seems to get stronger. I would do this till she reaches 102f. In acute cases this is done every six hours around the clock. Right now I'd do the oral cmpk protocol here also http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/f20/cmpk-substitute-treating-hypocalcemia-sue-reith-16498/ The doe needs these other minerals to help the calcium absorb well.
She also needs her udder massaged to de congest it, doing this during and after you have milked her out at least 3 times a day. But leave some milk for the kid. This massaging and milking out is important. Leaving the milk in can congest it further. She needs free choice alfalfa pellets or very leafy alfalfa to meet her calcium needs while she is lactating.
A full udder signals for less production, so if you want milk you need to encourage production and not let it stay over filled.
Add vitamin C every day for her udder and some zinc also. 2000mg. C a day and 40mg. zinc. This will help in case there is mastitis. 
Is the milk clumpy or taste off?
Did you worm her with Quest horse wormer the day she kidded? If you have slugs where you live, has she been wormed with IvomecPlus for Liverfluke and when?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I would give her 30cc under the skin, up high as close to the shoulder as you can get, watch for pooling at the bottom of stomach don't give more if you see this, watch for improvement and her temperature raising. Maybe start with every 6 hours the first day and then drop it as long as you continue to see improvement. Is she getting some form of alfalfa or other calcium rich hay source everyday? That really is key.


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## Dav (Apr 26, 2011)

This morning her temp is exactly 102* after giving her 6 oz calcium gluconate orally yesterday noontime.
Still not eating hardly any hay, I just bought new hay, hope its not the hay.
I milked out about a qt this morning & her udder seems OK now, not tight as it was before, nice & loose.
Daisy has been wormed every Sunday 1/2 teaspoon "Hoegger's Worm Compound for Goats"

Ordered these, will git in 2 days.

*1**"Mrm Cal-mag-zinc Liquid, 32oz, 2.5 Bottle"*
Health and Beauty; $11.29
In Stock
Sold by: Amazon.com LLC *1**"Nature's Way Vitamin C 1000 with Rose Hips, 250 Capsules"*
Health and Beauty; $13.99
In Stock
Sold by: Amazon.com LLC


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Dav, do you fecal to know that wormer actually works?


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## Dav (Apr 26, 2011)

Morning Cindy,
No I don't fecal, could I see anything with 10-X mag?


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Dav said:


> Morning Cindy,
> No I don't fecal, could I see anything with 10-X mag?


I think so. I think that's what I use.

It is very important that you either fecal yourself or get a sample into the vets, at least occassionally, otherwise you really don't know if that wormer is working. A goat full of worms can cause all sorts of problems.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

If you haven't wormed her since she kidded, that could very well be the problem. Especially right after kidding, does need to be wormed with a reliable wormer. Unfortunately, the herbal wormer rarely takes care of goats' parasites. 
Glad she is feeling better. the things you have ordered will help too.


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## SliceofAlmostHeaven (Aug 22, 2011)

You also in a pinch can give Tums. 6 right before milking. My does get 2 Tums everyday once they kid for 3 weeks. I have never had a problem. Hope this helps!


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Also fecalling this time of year, when its cold is pretty inaccurate (cold weather isn't a good time for worms to shed eggs). Check those eyelids too.


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## Laverne (Apr 4, 2010)

Check her eyelids with one of these charts. http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=famacha+chart&qpvt=famacha+chart&FORM=IGRE The lighter the lower eyelid shows the worse level of anemia from worms. Sorry, with herbal wormers she basically hasn't been wormed, which is very dangerous.
You really need to get some Quest horse wormer and squeeze some in a plastic syringe for 1 1/2 cc. This would be about right for a full size goat at the rate of 1cc per 100 lbs. you could look up a weight chart and measure her chest.
Jeffers Livestock has generic equivalent of IvomecPlus at a good price. This is dosed at 1cc per 33 lbs. of body weight.

For a goat not wormed right and anemic I did this with great success on two does. Dose the IvomecPlus then 3-5 days later dose with Quest. Then 10 days from the first dose, do this again, for 3 times, so you do each wormer 3 times 10 days apart.


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## Dav (Apr 26, 2011)

Daisy 102*
Still not eating hay, this is driving me crazy.
I've ordered Ivermac+
Her eyes are very white
Took a qt from her left teat, Glover used the right, have to milk her on the ground, still will not mount the stand. 
Tried new different hay, no help.
The kid & Daisy seem fine except she won't eat hay or get on the stand.
Eats all her grain & alfalfa pellets morning & night.
I gave her 16 oz of calciumj cluconate orally in a bowel over four days, the last 4 oz this norning. Also gave a a couple Tums.


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## Dav (Apr 26, 2011)

Gave Quest Gel (moxidectin) with sure-dial syinge 150 lb. 3/25
I offen should I do this?


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

I am wondering Dav why you are giving all this oral stuff to her? Sub-Q shots work far better by not upsetting the rumen further and is assililated much faster. Just wanted to know your explanation. And have you contacted a vet about your doe?

Hoping she is doing better for you today.
Tam


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

6 ounces given orally did nothing. Being in Maine, your parasite issues are pretty low, due to your freeze, until summer. We have tons of reading on the forum and in goatkeeping 101 on learning to fecal. Is there a milk withdrawal on the wormer you are using....just getting you to think about this since the answer is no, it simply is a bunch of herbs someone made up without evidence that it worked on fecal for the worms most goats have. It also contains wormwood which is abortive. Just because something is marketed as 'natural' does not mean it works, nor does it mean it is safe.

Curious as to why you would choose to orally drench her and with this dosage when it is not recommended. We know giving 30cc subq will raise her calcium level, does it with it given orally? Does it with Tums? We know it won't bring a doe in a crisis giving her oral CMPK, it may help a doe with minor symptoms at most. Vicki


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## Laverne (Apr 4, 2010)

Yes since her eyes are pale and she hasn't been wormed, she is harboring the worms and Liverflukes probably for months since last summer. Please only give the Quest at the rate of 1cc for every one hundred pounds, the dosage on the tube is for horses not goats. Get a small syringe plunger and squirt the Quest in that to meter out the right amount. There are weight charts if you google them for goats, then use a measuring tape. A few warm days here and there can trigger the worms to multiply. Since you aren't fecaling which may not show eggs anyway I'd go ahead and give the Quest in 10 days from the first dose, then again in 10 days. When you get the IvomecPlus give that 3-5 days after you gave a Quest dosage. Do this 10 days later also, then again in 10 days. Each one needs to be given 3 TIMES 10 DAYS APART. She may not need all of this but since she is like she is, and fecals aren't done, I believe in just going for the gusto with the wormer. Just cover all bases and save the goat.

That is great that she is eating the alfalfa pellets morning and night and you got a quart out of one side, that is a really good sign. If she is eating the pellets she needs to just eat all she wants of them, ALL DAY LONG. When my does were in heavy milk they didn't want much grass hay if any. Not wasting energy on possibly a low food value hay.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Since she is not eating hay, besides what everyone else said, I would give her as much alfalfa pellets as she will eat. More than 2 cups.


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## Dav (Apr 26, 2011)

Laverne said:


> Yes since her eyes are pale and she hasn't been wormed, she is harboring the worms and Liver flukes probably for months since last summer. Please only give the Quest at the rate of 1cc for every one hundred pounds, the dosage on the tube is for horses not goats. Get a small syringe plunger and squirt the Quest in that to meter out the right amount. There are weight charts if you goggle them for goats, then use a measuring tape. A few warm days here and there can trigger the worms to multiply. Since you aren't freckling which may not show eggs anyway I'd go ahead and give the Quest in 10 days from the first dose, then again in 10 days. When you get the IvomecPlus give that 3-5 days after you gave a Quest dosage. Do this 10 days later also, then again in 10 days. Each one needs to be given 3 TIMES 10 DAYS APART. She may not need all of this but since she is like she is, and decals aren't done, I believe in just going for the gusto with the wormer. Just cover all bases and save the goat.
> 
> That is great that she is eating the alfalfa pellets morning and night and you got a quart out of one side, that is a really good sign. If she is eating the pellets she needs to just eat all she wants of them, ALL DAY LONG. When my does were in heavy milk they didn't want much grass hay if any. Not wasting energy on possibly a low food value hay.


This is advice I can & will follow Laverne, thank you very much.
Gave her Quest (3 clicks) 3/25, Overreacting due the Th.
I will give her a can of pellets, morning , noon & night when I milk her to make sure the kid is getting filled up at least three times a day, also a can of grain morning/night.
Only took about a cup full last night, the kid is really sucking it up now.
Over 40 degrees yesterday, let them out all day, think they really like the sunshine. 
Daisy has always had access to the outside until kidding, when I locked inside, think that had anything to do with not eating hay? Her hay feeder is outside, but have one inside also.

I fiscally lifted her onto the stand & milked her while the kid (Clover) fed this morning, she sucked up a lot & I got about a cup & a half.
Worked OK, but she is a heavy lift.
Dav


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## Dav (Apr 26, 2011)

When worming, can the kid still use the milk?
Still not eating hay,
Some tell me to stop the grain.
And some say give more pellets.
??/
Dav


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Don't just stop the grain. She may need less or to she may need to slowly change to a different kind of grain, but don't just stop it, she is used to having those calories to make milk.
Are the alfalfa pellets you give her 100% alfalfa or do they have other things added in? I do think she needs more alfalfa pellets. the nutrients in alfalfa will be helpful to her.
yes, the baby can still drink the milk after you worm the mom.


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

Is there something off with the hay you are feeding? Usually when my goats have been off, it's the grain and alfalfa pellets they don't want and they will nibble on hay, usually preferring grass hay. Since your doe is eating her grain and pellets, I'd continue with that and increase the alfalfa pellets.


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## MayLOC (Oct 26, 2007)

dav, I don't think you need to be concerned with her not eating her hay at this point...if you are providing her with enough alfalfa pellets. Our goats never get hay. they get free choice alfalfa pellets but go through 3-4.5 lbs. per day depending on the season. try to aim for that much. don't forget to change anything slow.


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## Dav (Apr 26, 2011)

I have "Noromectin" (ivermectin) 1% for cattle & swine, is this ok to use? 1cc per 100lbs?
Dav


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

Double check that dosage, Dav. It should be in GK 101. Goat meds are rarely given at label dosage. Also, ivermectin injectable is typically given orally in goats although some folks will give it SQ at label dosage for treatment of external parasites only. But it won't touch her internal parasites at that dose.


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## Laverne (Apr 4, 2010)

I sure hope it is the Noromectin Plus that you bought which has a flukacide in it, for flukes, since it is the same as the IvomecPlus but cheaper. The plain Noromectin is just ivermectin only. I really think that you need the Plus part in it to cover Liverfluke. It is really important to worm for Liverfluke. If you have any slugs or snails around your place then you need to cover these parasites. I have slugs around my place and my goats would be dead if I didn't treat them for Liverfluke which the slug is a host for. 

Noromectin Plus is give at the rate of 1cc for every 33 lbs. of body weight.


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## Dav (Apr 26, 2011)

Daisy & her kid are now doing fine, she ways 136 & Clover 36 at 17 days.
Worming Daisy withe Quest (3-clicks) & Ivomacten Plus (3cc) 3 times x ea, alternating every five days for six weeks.
They will be going to my niece's tomorrow, they need sombody 24/7, that may not be me.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Thanks for the update. Are you saying you are worming her every day for six weeks?


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## Laverne (Apr 4, 2010)

At 136 lbs. Daisy needs 1 1/3 cc of the Quest. You need to really get a plastic syringe plunger to measure it out accurately. Quest can be overdosed.

The IvomecPlus, for her weight of 136lbs., she needs a 4cc instead of 3. It is given at the rate of 3cc per 100 lbs. so she need the extra CC to dose properly for her weight. You don't want to underdose wormers either. If you underdose you may not kill the Liverflukes out entirely.

Then, each wormer is given ten days apart, 3 times each, so if you give the Quest first then five days later you can give the IvomecPlus......then fives days after that the Quest and so on. This should take 35 days, NOT 6 weeks. I only suggest staggering the wormers to give the liver some time to eliminate the first wormer before giving the next one. Especially in an anemic, down doe.

I am only suggesting this since she was in a critical state, being down and anemic and basically not wormed since she had herbal wormer only. This protocol worked well for me to clean out a couple does of parasites, who were very anemic, and they have since recovered.


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## Dav (Apr 26, 2011)

Thanks so much Laverne,
I will pass this on to my niece, she picked them up yesterday.
Were worming every five days. One more of each to go.

How do handle your kids kids?????
Dav


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Dav said:


> How do handle your kids kids?????
> Dav


Not sure what you are asking, Dave. Do you mean kids as far as wormers and meds are concerned? I follow the "From Birth to Kidding" thread in Goat Keeping 101.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Well, Dav, once a doe has kids I fell like I am so busy for weeks afterwards. Even if the mama goat keeps her babies with her and I don't bottle feed, there are so many things to do with wormings and mineral supplements and vaccines and disbudding and on and on. So for me, I have to clear my calendar for a while to handle it all. Personally I think it would be nice to let someone else raise the babies and then i get them back when they are grown and ready to be milked. Lol Wouldn't that be nice!


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## Laverne (Apr 4, 2010)

Dav, I am concerned about Clover. You said that he is 36 lbs. at 17 days old. I think you meant 17 lbs. at 36 day old. So just want to make sure this isn't mixed up and he receives too much wormer. 

If he is 17 lbs. then he needs 17 percent of the 1 cc of Quest. I would just squirt out the 1cc of Quest in a long string and take a knife or razor blade and divide in five parts. Each part will be 20 % of the cc but I think that will be fine since he is close. The amount needs to be adjusted for his weight as he grows.

As outlined in Goatkeeping 101 he also needs Corid for Coccidiosis every three weeks till he is about 6-8 mos. old. 

That's very nice of your niece to help you with this.


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## Dee Kennerly (Apr 7, 2010)

Dav, I see where you sent Daisy and her kid to stay at your niece's to live. I know that was a difficult decision on your part. But it shows how much you care for your goat to turn her over to someone who may have the time for the intense care needed right now. I wish them well, and I thank you for doing your best for Daisy.


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