# help! Copper bolus got chewed!



## prairiegirl01 (Jun 2, 2008)

Hi all,

this was my biggest fear in administering these copper boluses--that I would do it wrong somehow! So, I got the 12.5 g dose, split it into two in a size 13 gel cap, and tried to administer it to my does. I had a really hard time getting it into their mouths--both does ended up chewing on them. Argh! Are they in any danger? Anyone have a good step by step method for doing this? I used peanut butter to keep the bolus in the gun, but I couldn't seem to work it in to their throat for them to just swallow! Should I get smaller gel caps?

Also, I hope this is safe for pregnant does...they are due first week in May.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Very worried...

Chris


----------



## Rose (Oct 26, 2007)

As long as they swallowed it, there's no problem. Your technique will improve.


----------



## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

And no it won't hurt your does health...just their ego's
Tam


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

What are you using to give the bolus? I use about an 8 inch pill gun for dogs and cats, and they don't swallow the boluses, I shove them down their throats past the tongue, past the teeth, into the neck. If you do not get it past the tongue they will feed it back to their teeth and grind up the rods, making the rods smaller means a higher level of copper right now, but it will be gone way before your 6 months is up. It does take practice  

I have 3 elderly does, I am giving 2 of them their copper boluses like normal, the third I am putting the rods in some very sticky sweet feed, and then stirred that into her normal grain ration. I am going to use her and the other two as controls to see if there is a difference in levels...being the oldest on the farm they are likely to be the next to go. V


----------



## Critterluver23 (Mar 15, 2011)

I am wondering where to get copper boluses? I looked online and couldn't find them at Jeffers online. Would my local feed store have something like that?? I have an oberhasli that I really believe is copper deficient because the hair on her back all the way to her tail is very thin, and shes not completely black, her hair is well, copper colored on the ends...lol Thanks ahead of time!


----------



## skeeter (Aug 11, 2010)

Here ya go...
http://www.jefferslivestock.com/copasure/camid/LIV/cp/16535/cn/3110/

My black Ober is my tattletale, always shows when they need copper first.


----------



## Oat Bucket Farm (Mar 2, 2009)

We gave two goats their boluses the normal way and we gave the other two their copper by mixing the rods into a small amount of strawberry yogurt,cutting off the end of a syringe,packing the copper/strawberry yogurt into the syringe and giving it like wormer. All have comparable improvement. No rods got chewed or chomped in the yogurt method, they just slurped it down. With our buck we got too much yogurt and a bunch got on my hands. He licked the yogurt, rods and all,off our hands and downed it without a single chew.


----------



## prairiegirl01 (Jun 2, 2008)

Thanks for all the reassurances! I mustered up my courage and then did my two wethers--one got chewed and the other I got far enough in so he had to swallow! I'm using a small plastic balling thingy. I don't think a smaller gun would fit the size 13 capsules in it.

I like the yogurt idea, though. I knew someone would have some idea I hadn't thought of!

So, if the copper rods get chewed and the effects are more intense right away and the copper doesn't last as long, should I re-administer sooner than 6 months from now? 

Also, how quickly should I see a response in my animals? Signs that it's working? Anyone know if the kids will be helped in utero?

Thanks all--you guys are great.


----------



## tmfinley (Feb 21, 2008)

Very interesting Audra! I am always looking for an alternative to shoving the copper filled pills down the goat throats. I am awful at it.


----------



## Oat Bucket Farm (Mar 2, 2009)

You are welcome. And when I say a small amount of yogurt, I mean put the amount of copper you need in a small bowl and then add just enough yogurt to make it into a thin paste kind of like consistency (it won't really be pasty because yogurt isn't pasty but you get my meaning hopefully.). Just make sure to hold the syringe pointed up until the moment you are ready to put in their mouth because the yogurt will drip right out of it if you don't Oh and they don't like plain yogurt as well. Get the cheap walmart brand strawberry stuff from the store. 

The reason this appealed to us is because one doe is an expert at hacking them back up after a minute and spitting the half disolved capsule out on the ground.


----------



## JamieH (Nov 29, 2010)

are there any negatives to the yogurt delivery method? It seems so much easier. Why isn't everyone doing this?


----------



## lonestrchic23 (Jan 7, 2011)

I am AWFUL at bolusing!!!!! Tried a balling gun, pill gun...had help...always chomped and spit out boluses. 

Now I hide it in special treats. Those really good treats that are inhaled, not chewed. For my standard alpine doe its oranges. Peel the orange, take one section, cut a hole in it, put the bolus in the center and take out 3 pieces...first piece, no bolus...second piece has the bolus and I wait til the other goats crowd around so she's frantic to take the orange before them....and as soon as the bolus piece hits her mouth I offer the 3rd orange piece with no bolus....She is so worried about that 3rd piece going to someone else that she swallows the one with the bolus whole. She needed 3 of the boluses to have her full dose, so I did this at 3 separate times during the day so the treat was just as special and didn't become old news lol. 

Did the same thing with my mini alpine, but with a marshmallow with a hole in the center and a tiny jam sandwich. Might not be the perfect way, but it got all the boluses in, unchewed without a fight or wasted boluses. 

I test out various treats a few days before to find which one is the most likely to be devoured and then that treat is rarely given so at bolus time its still this awesome thing to them lol


----------



## Oat Bucket Farm (Mar 2, 2009)

So far I haven't seen any difference from the goats I gave the capsuls to via bolus gun and those that got it in yogurt. The key is to get the rods delivered to the rumen unchewed. Having seen how fast the capsule disolves when repeatedly trying to get it down one doe, I know that the capsule doesn't move the rods to where they need to be, its the weight of the rods themselves that do that which is why they need to make it to the rumen unchewed. So as long as your method is getting it there unchewed, that is all that matters.


----------



## BlueCreekMinis (Jan 19, 2011)

I am fairly new to goats & haven't had to give them copper yet but feel I probably should. So you are saying that you don't have to put the copper in the capsuls, you can just add it to yogurt & feed it that way? That sounds so much easier & if this is an ok way to do it, then this is the way I would like to go.


----------



## JamieH (Nov 29, 2010)

what age do we start doing this? 6 months?


----------



## tmfinley (Feb 21, 2008)

BlueCreekMinis said:


> I am fairly new to goats & haven't had to give them copper yet but feel I probably should. So you are saying that you don't have to put the copper in the capsuls, you can just add it to yogurt & feed it that way? That sounds so much easier & if this is an ok way to do it, then this is the way I would like to go.


Not just feed it to them that way. You have to make sure you are getting the syringe to the back of their throats so they are not getting the chance to chew the rods.


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I am sorry, but until someone does this method and liver biopsies their do,e when she is put down on this program for several years...then and only then would I move to an alternative like this. The marshmellow xrays that were taken, showed the rods nearly all the same size, because they had been chewed. Please don't reinvent the wheel, this is information on dairy goats, from dairy goat gals, done on hundreds of goats...learn to use a pill gun, make your boluses small enough to go in them even if you have to give 3 or 4 to big goats. Bolus..because anything other than that is just guessing.


----------



## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

I had a hard time getting the bolusing thing but finally did. You really have to go way back there (hold their does head up, kinda like sword swallowing) just about the whole length of the bolus gun.


----------



## prairiegirl01 (Jun 2, 2008)

Vicki,

Can you describe exactly how you do it, step by step, and the equipment (size included) that you use? 

Thanks,

Chris


----------



## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Well when one of mine chewes up the bolus and hit her again with another one. just so I know she got what was needed down her.


----------

