# Am I over feeding and wasting??



## mommaB (Mar 12, 2010)

Discussion between my husband and I the other day. As the hay guy was helping unload the hay, he asked " how much hay do you go through" my reply was for the roughly 30 goats we have I go through a bale a day. To which my husband promptly came back with she waayy over feeds! 
Now keep in mind, my husband doesn't have a clue what goes on with the animals. He would rather feed the gas powered toys! The only things he thinks he knows is what he's heard me say 
But.... That got me to thinking, my aunt goes through a bale a month for her mini horses (2). Wow!! Am I feeding too much?? I have 30 goats total.. About half are fainters half are nigi's and there are 2 Nubians. I give all the does 3/4 of a 65-70lb bale a day. And the boys get the other 1/4. 
Another question is do the fainters require more food than the nigi's? They weigh more because they are a meat breed, but not sure where or if that plays into feed? ( the fainters are my friends, who keeps her animals at my house). Obviously the Nubians require more . They are 3x's the size of the other 2 breeds. 

So what do you think? Any thoughts? Anybody feed by weight? Like so much per head? Share your thoughts with me!


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

I go through at least a bale a day on mine, a little more. I have somewhere between 25-30 (I can't keep up with the count, sad, lol). My goats are not overfed. If the quality of the hay isn't high enough, I struggle with keeping enough weight on them. Their rumens are stuffed all the time, but when I feel of them, I would like a little more padding. I've actually been thinking to add in a little soaked beet pulp. I think the cold weather has made it harder to keep condition. I just feed enough that when I come back out they have a little left. Nigerians keep weight on easier than Nubians. With my Minis it is variable. Some seem to live on air, but some do not.

Mini horses are a completely different thing. They live on air. My Shetland pony is good with a flake or two a day, and he is tubby. The Shetlands are adapted to live on very poor scrub grass. It's apples to oranges to compare them to goats.


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

Oh my husband thinks I go through too much hay too, lol.


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## Qadosh Adamah Lamanchas (Nov 2, 2012)

Hmm.... we have 7 pregnant does and I go through about 30 lbs of hay per day on them. They are all standard sized dairy goats...6 lamanchas and 1 nubian. The amount I go through skyrockets when they're in milk.


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## mommaB (Mar 12, 2010)

Thank you!! I know what you mean about the Mini's!! I feel everyone, and they all feel pretty good . Of course they are all just a little different. But most feel good to me. Not overweight and not under. 
Now I know there is a good amount of waste, and there will always be some...I do need to improve my feeder to address this. I was just curious as to what you all thought!


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## todog (Dec 10, 2011)

oh crap! I AM over feeding on hay. ugh! i feed a bale a day to 15 goats. holy goat, are they ever pulling the wool over my eyes. dang, really!, 1 bale for 25 to 30? i am going to rethink my feeding program. thanks for the eye opener. lol


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## Qadosh Adamah Lamanchas (Nov 2, 2012)

Oh, but it is ridiculously difficult to say "no" to that line of goatie faces at the fence staring at the house when their hay is low. Then you hear a pitiful bleat as they continue staring and you know it's over. Time to go give them another flake or two!


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

What breed do you have Darlene? Remember most of my herd is mini, a bale for 15 standards might be right. Also depends on size of the bale. Mine are about 60 I think. I'm really feeding about 1.25 bales, and my horse and pony get the remainder of the second bale.


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## Good Goats (Oct 26, 2007)

We have a mixture of Mini Nubians, Nubians, Alpines and some experimentals and currently have about 65 goats.

We go thru 5 bales of alfalfa a day. The does are also let out to eat on a round bale for a few hours each afternoon.


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## mommaB (Mar 12, 2010)

Qadosh Adamah Lamanchas said:


> Oh, but it is ridiculously difficult to say "no" to that line of goatie faces at the fence staring at the house when their hay is low. Then you hear a pitiful bleat as they continue staring and you know it's over. Time to go give them another flake or two!


Right!?!? They act like they are starving aaallll the time!! Lol funny how they can make you feel so guilty!


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## Horsehair Braider (Mar 11, 2011)

Hmmm, I would not approach it in this way. There is no "right" amount to feed; you have to feed according to the animal in front of you. Are they gaining weight? Losing weight? Holding their own? 

To save money on feed, get your animal to a good healthy weight and then feed to keep them there. Monitor every day, while you are feeding - check their condition. If they are gaining weight, feed less; if they are losing weight, feed more.

If you allow them to get underweight, it will take a lot of feed to get them back in good condition. Save money by keeping them in good condition. 

If they quit eating, first check the water! They will not eat if they have no water. 

As far as feed waste: goats really will waste a lot of feed if given the opportunity. If mine start wasting a LOT of feed I cut them back on the feed. "Hunger is the best pickle." A hungry goat will eat well, and will not waste quite so much. Wasting some is normal, if they are really wasting feed, you are putting too much in front of them. Cut back, until they almost clean it up. As long as they are not losing weight you will be OK.


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

My hubby also is constantly accusing me of overfeeding the goats. They leave lots of stems behind, which they will eat if not fed anything more, but being they are pregnant, I like to be sure they are getting enough leaf matter for nutrition and I give some of the stems to the neighbor's horses who are glad for the treat.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

How big are the bales, what is the quality? I feed a bale every 2 days, but they are about 50 pounds maybe, grass, that is fed between 2 bucks and 10 bred does. Very little is wasted rationing it like this. We don't hit 100 days pregant for awhile, when they get more hay, alfalfa pellets and are started back on grain. 

Feel over the ribs, are they fat or in good flesh? Skin tight over ribs, feed more, pinch more than in inch feed less. But it's rarely your hay that is overfed


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## squeak (Jun 21, 2012)

Hi! I feed 2 square bales a day to 30 goats, 20 of which are milking. Maybe we have different bale sizes here though. There is a tiny amount left in the hay feeder by morning, and only a small amount left in the afternoon before the 2nd bales gets distributed. I feel that if it isn't being left behind then they need it, and I would much prefer for them to have it then not! I simply ignore comments about overfeeding hay  or agree with them and keep feeding it out at my usual rate  I guess it depends what else you feed, and if they feel a little bit 'fat' I cut down on the grain.  Helen.


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

Seriously people, this makes absolutely no sense. You can't compare how many bales you are feeding. All bales are different weights for one thing. The baler determines the density, therefore the weight per bale. Then there's the kind of hay (alfalfa different than grass and mixtures), and also the quality of course. I go through a LOT of hay, since my hay isn't great quality and my does get it free choice and get to sort out what they want (with very little spilling, but what they don't eat in a day, I consider low quality and use for bedding. Anyway, if you want to compare what you are feeding, you have to test your hay and show eachother the test results and actual weights fed.


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

The suggested ratio is 3% of their weight in hay per day, raise or lower for each animals condition.

Mine average about 3 pounds of hay a day plus whole oats and alfalfa pellets. I get the big round bales and carry the hay to the feeders on a pitchfork. I weighed the hay a couple of times so I have an idea of how much each normal sized fork full weighs and go form there. 

My mini get 3 flakes of hay a day (or the equivalent) plus about a pound of oats. He is in good weight right now. Since its been so cold, below 0 at night/single digits during the day, they need that hay to keep warm. A horse starts needing extra hay when the temp hits 20. I go by that rule of thumb for the goats too.

I do get some baled hay in between round bale deliveries if I run out. The bales are 35 pounds.

My hay is grass/weed and late cut, since the weather never cooperates for cutting when it's at its peak, so it's crap. The stuff they spill or won't eat gets raked up and fed to the horses.


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

I also feed out 3-4 times a day, so that spreads the hay out over about 16 hours. They have less to waste because if they get hungry in between feedings, they have to eat the stuff they left in the feeder!


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

I'm actually feeding to waste a little cause we couldn't find straw this year. A little on the ground each day keeps the stalls decently fresh. My husband says my bales are 50, not 60. They are mixed bales, but low in alfalfa. I'd like to get a little pad of fat over the ribs and spine of mine. Last year some of them thinned down more than I liked after kidding. I'm hoping if they can freshened a little over conditioned they can hold their weight a little better.


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

Well then! My goats are SPOILED!! ROFL I feed a 50# bale of 3rd cut alfalfa a day to 11 Nubians. 
I don't think they're fat, but they are nice and big. Just the way I want them going into kidding and milking in March. Very little waste--the bucks waste the most and they're getting cut back a bit.


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## Qz Sioux (Feb 21, 2009)

Yeah, like Sully, I like to put a flake out several times a day. This makes it possible for me to check on everyone multiple times, and I can return the escapee each time. Mine vary on amounts. Sometimes I find that they clean it up quickly and I'll replace it, other days they don't eat it quite as fast, so they have to wait for the "fresh" flake.


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

I have a problem with mine if I'm too generous - they tear through it looking for the alfalfa, and then stand there hollering for me to add a fresh flake. Is it just mine that do that? And why do they have to stand on the hay feeder to eat from the top. They can easily stand on the ground and pull out hay. They are just ornery! :lol:


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## tendermeadowsnigerians (Sep 8, 2010)

I must be overfeeding, my spoiled goats get a round bale and when its about 3/4 gone i feed the last to the horses and the goats get a new one. They have hay 24hrs a day, oh boy do they complain if they dont have hay, even for the 20 minutes it takes me to switch bales. But its cold here and I would rather them always have hay available. Its 1st & 2nd cutting grass hay. They get alfalfa pellets twice a day. Summer time is another story kids, dry yearlings, & bucks get booted out to the pastures and milkers get to come up twice a day for alfalfa & oats


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## todog (Dec 10, 2011)

lol, i dont think any of us are real serious about this except maybe the original poster. i will continue to feed the way i am because i like the way my herd looks. i dont like to see the waste but a 3.00 a bale i will tolerate some waste. i am just chimming in for the fun of it. :rofl
GOING :crazy CAUSE I AM NOT MILKING!


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Marion, of course, is right. It's really hard to compare.

To the OP, if your goats look good and feel good, than you're doing something right. I don't have ND's so wouldn't be able to comment on that.

We feed about 1 - 50 or 60 lb bale (alfalfa/grass mix) per day to 13 goats; 3 bucks (who are still not eating a lot of hay), 5 adult does and 5 kids. They do waste some. Here, it's DH that "overfeeds". I like to see those feeders a little more empty before adding more. Overall, my herd looks good. Sure, there will be one that is too fat and one that could use more weight, but nothing I'm really worried about.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Feeding full hay right now would keep the girls right at the barn, eating hay, instead of getting exercise and getting their round butts out to the woods to eat  Vicki


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

We keep out round bales of Sudan for our herd, so there's no way to limit intake. Love the round bales, they are a labor saver. We also fill the hay barn with square bales of Sudan, for pens that cannot accommodate a big round bale, and for when the weather is bad, and the goats can't go out to the round bale.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

My goats are pretty active for the most part; they still go outside and wander around (aimlessly I guess, lol), even though I am free-feeding them their hay in the barn and they have water in there too. There's nothing to eat that isn't dead and buried in snow right now. I am going to finish a hay feeder outside for them one of these days...


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

MF-Alpines said:


> Marion, of course, is right.


 :yeahthat Let's just stick to this and close the forum :rofl :rofl :rofl


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

My job is done....Marion when you get tired, I know where that X button is that will close it down


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## racyford (Sep 10, 2008)

Y'all are hysterical. js


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## adillenal (Feb 6, 2009)

KJFarm said:


> We keep out round bales of Sudan for our herd, so there's no way to limit intake. Love the round bales, they are a labor saver. We also fill the hay barn with square bales of Sudan, for pens that cannot accommodate a big round bale, and for when the weather is bad, and the goats can't go out to the round bale.


I did the same thing until they inhaled all of the sudan rolls so they are now getting coastal rolls but still it is all free choice. The small pens get a square bale of sudan at a time since I still have some squares left. The two big pens are going through a large roll of coastal in a month which is less than halkf as fast as the sudan was being consumed.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

racyford said:


> Y'all are hysterical. js


 :yeahthat

:rofl :rofl


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

The one time I tried a round bale the obliterated it trying to pick through for the best stuff. :lol: Never again!!


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## adillenal (Feb 6, 2009)

swgoats said:


> The one time I tried a round bale the obliterated it trying to pick through for the best stuff. :lol: Never again!!


We put acattle panel around the bale which is against the fence so it is impossible for them to do anything but eat what they can reach and as they eat it away we move the panel in closer. Mine are trained. HaHa. They will eat it down to nothing and then they get a new one.


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

Vicki McGaugh Tx Nubians said:


> My job is done....Marion when you get tired, I know where that X button is that will close it down


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Vicki don't leave me!!!! Where's the X, where's the X?????? :shudder :eek :faint


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Actually Jacquee has it right as well...her post is spot on....each animal is an individual and good husbandry means noting daily the condition of each of your charges. There is no benefit in a hungry goat to anyone as the first thing to go is immune function and you then set yourself up for doctoring an animal that should be producing. It is up to you to provide an efficient feeding system if you find they waste too much. I feed one square bale of protein tested improved bermuda professionally grown each day to 12 does and 3 bucks. It is in no way 'too much'. I want them poking it down non stop unless they are out grazing. You bulk is your most important contribution to ruminant success. Quality bulk goes much farther than waste product pellets or the best grains or any fancy supplements. Ruminant digestion is based on bulk processing of large quantities of fiber. Give it to them! 

Ok Marion...cleared for take over now lol....

Lee


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

adillenal said:


> We put acattle panel around the bale which is against the fence so it is impossible for them to do anything but eat what they can reach and as they eat it away we move the panel in closer. Mine are trained. HaHa. They will eat it down to nothing and then they get a new one.


That would work here until the babies showed up. The babies like to climb into hay feeders made with panels and bed down in the middle of the fresh hay supply. After they pee and poop in the hay the moms don't want to eat it anymore. (Who can blame them?) Why anyone thinks smaller is easier, I'm not sure? The smaller the goat the more trouble they get into in my humble experience!


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

buckrun said:


> Ruminant digestion is based on bulk processing of large quantities of fiber. Give it to them!


 :yeahthat


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## mamatomany (Aug 7, 2008)

Oh crap! As I began to read this...I am probably way overfeeding my girls. I have 9 pregnant girls and 2 bucks and 2 weathers. I go thru more than a bale a day. I figure that hay is where I put my money and that is where they get their protein (tested at 20%). They are not fed much grain, ever, excellent minerals and addititives, but I do go thru a bale a day. They are huge hay wasters anyways. My cow (dexter) who is pregnant gets all the scrap alfalfa . She gets a 1/2 bale of fescue a day and I have planted rye grass so there is some green they are eating now. Geesh...we just got our first paycheck of the year, and it is down sooooooo much we need to be evaluating and having a family "meeting" about expenses and where we can cut.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

I use a bale of 2nd cutting alfalfa a day (sometimes a little more if it's super cold, like in the teens and single digits or below zero), but my bales are 85-90 lbs each. I have: 

1 open mini alpine milker
3 late pregnant alpine sr's
1 mid-pregnancy alpine milker
1 early bred alpine milker
2 dry Nigerian sr's
4 mid-pregnancy MA doelings
1 5 month MA doeling
1 MA and one Nigerian 2 year old bucks
2 llamas
And 5 bred 2012 Finn ewe lambs, plus the 2012 ram

The sheep and llamas get waisted goat hay in addition to some fresh. Everyone is free-fed.


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

Linda- I don't believe you CAN feed too much hay. If you're trying to encourage them to eat other available forage that's one thing, but for folks who feed hay as 100% of their roughage I think if they are eating that much then it's not too much. Waste is why I stopped feeding alfalfa hay- they'd pick through and eat the leafy bits and leave the stems. I'd have had to seriously limit their intake to get them to eat stems, which I won't do. I want them eating as much hay as they can. Now feeding Chaffhaye as our alfalfa source they don't pick and waste at all. They eat 100% of the product. Our coastal hay is another story... but there is no financial reason to worry myself about waste enough to ration at that price. I'd rather see them eating their fill.


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

:yeahthat Totally agree: let the ruminants ruminate! It's what they do best AND what keeps them healthy!


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Exactly, ruminants should have free-choice forage.


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

Honestly, can goats even over eat HAY? I would never think of letting my girls or boys go any time at all without hay available, at least not in the winter. Now, if I were trying to get them to eat available grass, sure, maybe ration hay, but otherwise I don't know how restricting hay will help a production animal at all?

Before I set the hay up like I do now, with a round bale pushed up to the cattle panel fenced area and tarped on my side, and watched closely so they don't eat it to where they cannot reach it, we went through much more hay because they were wasting so much of it. Now there is next to no waste and the girls get all the hay they want, and they do have a little green grass and browse too, even now. We go through approx. 700 pounds a month for 10 goats and that's just an estimate because I am using round bales and I do not know the exact weight.


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## racyford (Sep 10, 2008)

swgoats said:


> That would work here until the babies showed up. The babies like to climb into hay feeders made with panels and bed down in the middle of the fresh hay supply.


 I had that experience too, with my first babies. I had a wonderful hay rack my husband made that worked perfect in the barn. All the goats could get hay and not fight; they didn't even have to look at each other. THEN we had babies. We went out one night to fill the hay and my wether jumped into the wagon and then the hay rack. Once he realized he could get in there, we could not keep him out and his 3 sisters started jumping in too. It made the big girls so mad! They would stick their heads in to eat and have a baby goat start head butting them out. LOL


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

Lol, I fought the babies all last spring. Trying a new design this year, we shall see.


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