# Nutrena CTC feed? Other?



## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

We buy from a Nutrena feedstore and I want to buy a feed containing CTC or Chloratetracycline for my goats. It should contain AC also if possible. I have done a few searches on the net but am having difficulty figuring out what I need. If Nutrena does not have it, what about Purina or whatever? Can someone recommend a brand? Please be specific so I can write it down and give it to my hubby to take with him to town tomorrow. Thanks.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

They have tetracycline crumbles that you add to your feed.


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

I was under the impression that they also made a medicated calf feed that could be fed instead of having to add the crumbles. But if I did get the crumbles, how do you medicate a whole pen of goats with them?


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

haven't a clue think you top dress there feed but I have never had to use it.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

ok everything I have found so far is 
Aureomycin Crumbles as a feed additive top dressed daily comes in 2% and 4% chlorotetracycline 
the 2 is used generally for sheep and the 4 for calves.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

You use the calf dosage.

Feed dealers have books they order from. Just because they do not carry a medicated calf starter does not mean they can not get it for you, they would have to look it up in their book. I know the calf feed we used was called baby beef and Purina made it, but that was back in the 90's. Vicki


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## ecftoggs (Oct 26, 2007)

Diane,
Almost all dealers that feed any amount of cattle will carry a CTC 4g crumble. They don't often mix it into a complete or supplement as it is usually fed at the start of the cattle feeding program and they wouldn't floor stock it because of shelf life. But the CTC 4g is easy to find. We top dress it at 1/4 oz per head per day and feed 4-6 weeks prior to kidding. Actually we do mix it somewhat into the daily feed pail instead of top dressing.
Tim


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## J-Basqo (Oct 26, 2007)

Ok, I am getting braver about my ignorance! I just decided that since I am on here to learn and if I dont know what someone is talking about, I am not learning anything. So I decided to ask!!LOL I was just curious to find out the purpose or reason for adding the CTC to your goats feed and what it does??


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## ecftoggs (Oct 26, 2007)

Patina,
Glad to see you asking questions. CTC feed is a tetracycling feed additivethat is mainly designed to treat or prevent respiratory sickness in new cattle to the feedlot. As a tetracycline it has a broad range of things it helps to control. There was a study about it preventing abortions in sheep and many vets will prescribe it for abortion control. We like to only feed it for the 4-6 weeks prior to kidding so that we do not get any antibiotic resistance, I do know some that have it mixed into their feed all year round. Years ago when we used to raise sheep we unknowingly brought in a buck that was a Chlamidia carrier and started to have ewes abort that were bred to him. Feeding the crumbles stopped the abortions. Abortions are never something that you want to see and so we are firm believers in feeding the crumbles as to not go through that again.
Tim


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## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

Diane if you can't find the feed with the additive in it already, you can probably get the crumbles at Tractor Supply. I can in Huntsville. I see a bag or 2 sitting there most always.


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Nutrena CTC feed? More questions*

Ok, I called our feed dealer, a Nutrena store where hubby gets our feed, it's kind of his relative. They said they have medicated calf transition feed with CTC in it, 70gm/ton. That works out to 3.5gms/100lbs...am I thinking right? I told the guy it was for goats, and he said he had another lady buying it for goats. It is $7.75 per 50 lb bag. Not sure how much I need or how long I should feed it. I have 17 goats total. Do I feed this exclusively? Confused here. What about their alfalfa and oats?

Also, I keep up the LA200 for how many days?


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

I would get the crumbles and mix in with what you are already using not changing their feed. that could spell another whole problem.


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

I guess i am a little confused about how to dose these goats with crumbles when I pen feed. Bill has lunch at 12 and will go to the feedstore then so i don't know what to tell him, I talked to Vicki in a PM and she had said something about feeding them Purina Baby beef which is similar, i think, to this Nutrena medicated calf starter.

SCREAM! :crazy


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I would assume the crumbles will be an alfalfa meal base. So you could feed them per Tim and Mary's advice. When we used the baby beef it was on broker does who we were not bringing in their normal feed anyway...we just slowly started them on this until they were eating 1 pound a day, they were already through their 3 to 5 days of tetracycline subq.

Patina this is exactly what you should do, and hopefully everyone has added Tim and Mary's dosages of this to their goat book they are keeping. Nobody wants to have to use antibiotics, but using them for specific reasons, prevention of abortion storms, stopping abortion storms, you have questionable housing during really awful wet weather for prevention of pneumonia, shipping animals long distance, especially when it is a permanant move. Knowing how to use antibiotics like this is to the benefit of your stocks health, giving one shot or using a nasal spray etc...is to the detriment. Vicki


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

Ok, so i will try to get the crumbles today and keep up the LA200 shots.

Still a bit confused on mixing the crumbles into the food, sorry. I am having pretty intense back pain today and am distracted by it.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I would PM or call Tim and Mary. Vicki


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2008)

Tim and Mary are great people Diane. They won't mind a bit if you contacted them. 

Sara


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## DostThouHaveMilk (Oct 25, 2007)

Diane,
I bought Aeromycin (Sp?) crumbles. I plan to mix it in with the daily ration of feed I put out for everyone. This means I won't be able to garantee that each does gets her full amount, but considering how fast they scarf down their small ration of grain they should come close.
I considered just having it mixed in with the feed when it is mixed, but the feed goes to our heifers as well and I would rather mix the exact amount each day instead.
I'm pretty sure the mill mixes it in for some of the other producers in this area. They didn't have a full 50 pound bag, only part and it was like 6 pounds they owed me which makes me think they do add it to some feed mixes.


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

I called Nutrena back, no CTC crumbles.

Called the other feedstore, only Aeromycin crumbles.

I don't have long distance phone, can't call Tim and Mary.

Bill leaves for lunch in a few minutes and don't know what to tell him unless we wait for tomorrow. he is waiting right now for me to call.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Aeromycin

That is tetracycline, it should say so on the tag, ask them what the active ingredient is. Vicki


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2008)

It is Vicki. I would go for the Aueromycin. It should say on the tag that it is chlorotetracycline.

Sara


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## ecftoggs (Oct 26, 2007)

Diane,
Even if this doesn't get to you before your husband gets to the feed store you are alright. The LA200 you gave them is the right start to the program and getting the crumble in the next day or so will be timely enough. CTC and Aureomycin are the same they are both chlortetracycline, Aureo is a trade name, and they say they process it a little different to make it more available but I have not seen a big difference (I used to sell feed). As far as the feeding, just measure out your normal amount of feed and add the additional Aureo to that amount. By mixing you will more evenly distibute it so they all get a chance to eat it. The last couple of years the 4g crumbs we have gotten have actually been a mini pellet, but our does will eat anything. I do know of a friend that got concerned when she opened the bag and said her does don't eat pellets, they did anyway. 
I think you said you have 17 goats. 17 x .25 oz. = 4.25 oz. That is a weight not a volume measurement. Honestly we are not super accurate, I used to measure, but have gone to the handful method. I don't know if you have a way of weighing that small of an amount, but if you can figure it once the estimate to the high side from then on. If you have a dairy scale there are 16 oz. in a pound, thus 1.6 oz. per tenth on the scale. 4.25/1.6 = 2.65 tenths, I would round it up to 3 tenths for the easier figuring, at that rate you are giving .28 oz. per head. Feed until the does freshen, if you are pen feeding keep feeding the group until they are all done freshening.
Just PM me if you have more questions, we are not on the list all of the time.
Tim


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Tim can we put that post in goatkeeping 101? Vicki


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2008)

Don't ask him. He won't care.  :rofl

Put it in there!

Sara


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

Thanks all of yall for all this attention and help for a problem that has gone on to long. I have a soap making postal scale that should work for small amounts and then i have an old fashioned hospital baby scale that I use to weigh milk in the milk room, not official, but good for my records. The postal scale should work.

I just gave 7 LA200 shots, second round:

Sugar (aborted)
Spice (aborted)
Franny
Glennis
Agnes
Chelsey MM
Speckles MM

Still have to start LA200 initial treatment on 4 LM doelings and 1 Boer doeling but had to stop (my stupid back and need help)

Have not given any shots to bucks or wethers.

The weather is turning, may have frozen precip tonight.

I just have 1/2 bottle LA200 left and need to get a bottle of off-brand before I start initial treatment on the 5 doelings or I will run out and there will be a gap in treatment on those I have already started, so trying to do a juggling act. I think by tomorrow I will have my ducks in a row,

The feedstore will have the Auermycin crumbles tonight at 7, they are delivering it from Elgin just for us.

Bill called and said they also had something called "Purina Nurse Chow 200" with LA200 in it but that is a feed not the crumbles so I guess the Aueromycin crumbles are still the way to go (?) He wants me to call back before he gets off work. As the saying goes "My head hurts".


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2008)

I would stick with the crumbles Diane. They are really easy to feed and probably much cheaper than the Purina feed in the long run. Just top dress the feed you are feeding them now.

Sara


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

Thats what I will do Sara. I am so tired of this whole subject AACK! I'll call hubby and tell him to just get that.


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## ecftoggs (Oct 26, 2007)

BlissBerry said:


> Don't ask him. He won't care.  :rofl
> 
> Put it in there!
> 
> Sara


Very funny, Sara. :biggrin Actually before I did that, I wanted to double check my resources. I couldn't find the original study in which I derived my rates 10-12 years ago. I did find a rate in a Pipestone Vet catalog which gave for prevention "200mg of Chlortetracyline per head per day for the last 6 weeks of gestation". So a 4g crumble contains 4000 mg per pound then 1 oz. = 250 mg. So you would need 0.8 oz. per head per day of a 4g crumble. On a dairy scale with each tenth equalling 1.6 oz. you could then say each tenth of the dairy scale will provide the correct feeding rate of CTC for two head each day. So Diane's 17 head would then need 8.5 tenths when measuring on the dairy scale or 13.6 oz for the entire herd. Sorry for the confusion and yes, now you can put the corrected amounts into goatkeeping 101.
Tim


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

:rofl Don't ya' just love pushy women,Tim!!! LOL...you didn't stand a chance!

I'm sssoooo glad you worked up the doses. :biggrin
Thanks bunches,
Kaye


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

Except my herd is in 5 different pens, divided by age and sex :/


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## ecftoggs (Oct 26, 2007)

Diane,
Do they get the same feed? If so combine the different amounts and add the CTC and then redivide. We just started our CTC today and had to do just that. If you want me to figure it out for you, PM me with the # in each pen, I will figure it later after my meeting.
Tim


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

Ok, thanks. Does are fed alfalfa pellets and grain, and bucks alfalfa pellets and meat goat pellets. I'll do the math, but if I have a question, I certainly will PM you...thanks so very much


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Oh wow Tim someone we can ask to figure out our drug dosages? What will Kaye do with all her time now  Vicki


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

I just went out and looked at the bag and it is Aueromycin 2gm crumbles NOT 4gm.

So I guess just double all that math. 

Any comments on the 2gm before I feed it?

Also, the does look better this morning after second round of LA200 yesterday. Heard only 1 cough and saw no profuse snot, a big improvement already. However, one doe, Sugar the lighter colored doe and 2nd to abort, was laying down and didn't get up til I walked up to her. It may be that her leg hurt from the shot. She limped a very small amount, almost unnoticeable. I went through TWO thermometers yesterday. I wanted temps on every single doe and first thermometer dead and second one half the lighted part was out so couldn't get temps on any...will have to get a new thermometer today...does it ever end? I was prepared to take temps and had a spare and still could not!!!


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

ecftoggs said:


> BlissBerry said:
> 
> 
> > Don't ask him. He won't care.  :rofl
> ...


So 1.6 oz per head per day of 2gm crumbles?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Diane, you need to be giving the shots under the skin. Pulling out the skin over the ribs, they should have no problems with soreness or lumps with the meds in this area, plus you can then move from side to side each day.

You may want to continue past 3 days on anyone who doesn't clear runny nose. Vicki


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

I am giving the shots subQ under the skin, really pulling and tenting the skin up well. However, because I have really and truly thrown my back out of wack, I have been putting them on the milkstand which is up against the wall, and the first two shots have both been on the right side behind the front elbow. Yesterday, I consciously knew I should be putting it in the other side, but I absolutely physically could not so this was better than no shot at all. I knew full well that today I would have to do the left side. 

When I did Sugar, there was a drop of blood which was frigthening as that is not supposed to happen with SQ. She seemed fine and i monitored her for awhile, I figured it was just a vessel that fed fat or sking and I nicked it. I gladly appreciate any tips for todays shot.


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

I did the math for 2gm crumbles and got this;

My Big Girl Pen has 8 does so 8 x 1.6 = 12.8 round up to 13 oz

Little Girl Pen has 4 bred doelings so 4 x 1.6 = 6.4 round up to 6.5 oz

Boy Pen has 3 so 3 x 1.6 = 4.8 round up to 5 oz

There are 2 other pens with one goat each in them so that is easy. 1.6 oz each or round to 2 oz as they are large anyway, a big buck and a big weather....these are healthy and a good distance away, I will treat anyway because I may carry the germ to them accidentally.


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

Well, I will feed this and if it is way off I figure one time won't hurt them. If I can round it up/off even more that would be good to know.


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## ecftoggs (Oct 26, 2007)

Diane,
You will be good with the way you figured your rates at 1.6 oz. per head per day of the 2g. crumbles. Glad to hear your does are feeling better as a whole.
Tim


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

Good to know, Tim, my parents "bought my books, sent me to school..."

I just came in from this horrible misty weather and fed the goats their feed with the crumbles in it. They HATE it and thought I was poisoning them. But they wanted their food so they picked around and pushed it around and finally greed took over and they ate it...it just took longer than usual. They are even standing out in weather not fit for cats or goats and are still finishing it up, I think. I will check later and see if they really ate the crumbles. I figure in a few days they will be accustomed to it.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

just for the record there is also 
TetraBac 324 used in the water
1 scoop per 3 gal bucket


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

Oh good Sondra, I'll put that in the water and then they won't eat OR drink :really :rofl


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