# CL ??



## Jo~* (Oct 26, 2007)

Just how big of a deal is CL? The Saanan that I want has a small lump on her shoulder/ neck.
And a couple of the other does in with her have dried up spots where abscesses were by the jaw line.
The lady told me that just recently a couple of her goats came up with CL and she had them isolated. Remember I am a real newbie with goats. 
I really like her goats so I hope this isn't to big of a deal How much is it to have a goat tested for CL and if you only have 2 goats can you get rid of it? :help
Thanks.


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## ecftoggs (Oct 26, 2007)

Jo, 
If these are your first goats, I would steer clear. If the abcess were to rupture anywhere in your barn, the CL organism could be there for a very long time. You are also going to be on a steep enough learning curve on how to manage your goats without having to spend time lancing and cleaning out the abcesses, in order to get rid of it. Which is not all the successful.
Tim


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## old dominion (Oct 25, 2007)

Run from that goat as fast as you can. Your first priority must always be herd health. We have one mantra here "If you can't get rid of it don't mess with it, and if you can choose if you want to deal with it". You can not get rid of CL.

CL is a big deal. Don't let anyone tell you differently. It not only effects the goat, but your reputation in the goat industry. We all started with a few goats you never know where this journey will take you.

Jolene


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## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

Do not get this goat Jo. Wait and find something from a clean herd. If you get that CL germ in your soil or in your barn you are in trouble. Also, if you walked in her pastures and around her goats, wash your shoes. You can transmit stuff to your own place just by picking up dirt from her place and transferring it to your pasture.


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## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

You are up in NW Calif. Contact Susan at Waiilatpu and see what they have for sale. They will have some yearling milkers for sale in the early spring. They are pretty reasonable on their prices also. www.waiilatpu.com


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## Jo~* (Oct 26, 2007)

Oh darn this aint sounding to good :down.


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## Melissa (Oct 27, 2007)

I'm sorry Jo, but I have to agree with the others. it's best to not ever start this on your farm. and all to often folks think they can manage the disease because they get so emotionally attached to the goat to ever let her go. I know I did with a doe that was CAE positave. I can look back know and see that her being killed by a dog was really the best thing for me as I would never have let her go. after that I got a clean doeling and brought her up on cows milk so I KNOW she's clean. Kaye, this is the doe you met at the West Plains show so many years ago. (the one with the milking pale incident ~lol!)


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

Please don't get started in goats with CL. You will always regret that you did. There's plenty of clean animals to be purchased, just be patient and keep shopping. Same goes for CAE - start with a clean, healthy herd.


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## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

Hey another thought. You are up near Justine. See if she has a doe she would part with. On this board she is Oregonian Chick or something like that.


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## Guest (Nov 24, 2007)

Pass on this deal. I'm not sure if it was you that caught seeing this, or if the seller disclosed this to you up front. I know that you've been looking at these goats for a couple weeks now with no mention of CL. I'm almost a little bit pee-ode, that someone is trying to get you started off this way. I'd pass on this sellers goat today, tommarrow, and from now on, if they were trying to do this to me.


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## goatmom (Oct 26, 2007)

Jo- You are absolutely doing the right thing by learning so much about dairy goats before you jump in -but Tim is so right about the learning curve. What looks easy on paper won't be. In the above posts,you are getting the benefit of years of experience on this forum and if you heed this advice you will look back in a couple years and be so glad. It's one thing to manage a disease to try and preserve genetics but please don't knowingly start out with a problem. If this is a matter of initial cost on the animals, the emotional expense later on will be far greater.


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

I would NEVER buy a goat with a lump or from a herd that has CL. Not only is it contageous to any goat that comes on your property for years to come, it can also be zoonotic. At our shows, we do not allow goats with abcesses, and if they have scars consistant with CL, they must also be accompanied by negative test results before we will allow them to be in our show barns. This is how serious the breeders are in my area. There are alot of healthy goats out there. I agree with the person who suggested Waailatpu. I've seen goats from their place and they maintain a healthy herd.


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## MayLOC (Oct 26, 2007)

I have to agree that (if it were me) I would definitely not purchase this saanen (as I said in your other post already). Even a neg. CL test wouldn't be enough to change my mind with the knowledge that she has others that have it and you have seen lumps on other does in with this doe. (correct me if wrong) but I thought I have read that neg. tests aren't really significant and only mean there isn't an active abcess? Anyhow...there are good clean does out there and hopefully you can make a nice clean start with some of them.


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## Jo~* (Oct 26, 2007)

You all have stopped me from making a big mistake and I thank you for that. Without all the words of wisdom here I may have bought this and probably another goat from this herd, thinking that I could have cleared it up. 
Cleaning out an abscess would not bother me but if it lives in the soil etc then I would not want it here. 
My 14 year old daughter was the one that saw a dried up area on a couple of the goats and thought it was just a ringworm spot healing up. When I asked the gal about the spots she told me exactly what it was, but not as much info as maybe I needed to know. Maybe she didn't know enough about it either. 
She was a nice gal and I don't want to say bad things about anyone. Oh well. 
Back to the search!! 

Oh where I live, its as far north and west as you can go and still be in California. I'm not really in a position to travel to far so I'm kind of keeping my search from about Medford Oregon or CoosBay Oregon area to about Eureka/Ferndale California area. The price of gas here is $3.50 a gallon. I think I'm pretty far from most of the other members on here. There is a gal with Nubian's up in Applegate named Katie Marical Box M Nubian's that has a couple for sale and they are CL and CEA negative. Anyone know her? And I think Ken on here told me about another in that area. If anyone has any other suggestions please feel free to email me.


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## MayLOC (Oct 26, 2007)

I don't think you will ever regret this decision Jo  Good luck finding some good clean gals.


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## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

CL is a problem you want to avoid. Not only are there external abcesses but internal ones. Every breeder must take the necessary responsibility to keep from spreading this horrid disease. It is not just an ordinary abcess it is an incurable and contagious disease.


Ask the owner for proof of test for CAE and examine the doe for CL bumps and scars. Ask about the history before buying anything and good luck about getting honest answers.


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## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

You can also check the ADGA breeders directory. There are many folks raising very nice goats that rarely show and
may never get on a goat forum....and they could be closer to you than you think!

Camille


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

One of the biggest misconceptions about CL is that you can lance them, clean them out, use iodine, formaldahyde, etc. and it's all over. Just because it ripens and it is doctored and heals up, doesn't mean you're through dealing with it. This is a disease of the Lymph system and can keep coming back, externallly and internally. You sure don't want one to burst and get into your soil or on fences, feeders, etc. for the next goat to get into to. In a matter of months, you can have abscesses in multiple animals - been there, done that, many years ago. Even if you have to pay a lot more to purchase an animal, start out with clean ones.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

The first goats I looked at and wanted, I didn't buy for the same reason. It was hard for me to turn them down because I'm kind of timid and worry about making people mad, or hurting their feelings, but I did it.

You don't want to start out this way. You get this stuff in your soil, it stays there for years. No one will want your goats with CL in your herd. 

Take you time getting your first goats you'll forget all about the disappoinment and enjoy your goats for years to come.


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## Melissa (Oct 27, 2007)

I'm thankful that the breeder was truthful to you about it and didn't really try to cover it up or lie. the thinking of "I'll breed it out" rarely, if ever, works. you did the right thing. good luck on finding a starter herd for you!

-Melissa


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## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

The thing about this disease is that Lab test don't really tell you anything except when testing the actual abcesses.. 

Another problem is that too many breeders have just considered it a "nuisance" disease rather than the horrid disease that it is. 

Some believe that vacinating against this disease can prevent it. However, vacinating will not cure it if your goat already has it. 

The best way to prevent it is to never have it by purchasing clean animals. As others have said, this virus can live in the soil for years, waiting for the opportunity to infect your goats. Don't contaminate your property by bringing that disease on your farm. 

There are other abcesses that are caused by splinters or thorns etc. A CL abcess will usually have "toothpaste" type puss in it and it usually don't have much of an odor. They are always located on a lymph node. These are the ones you see, there are other abcesses on internal lymph nodes. 

This disease also is reported to be contaigious to humans also. Extreme care should be taken when dealing with this disease.


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## baileybunch (Oct 26, 2007)

My other thought would be about how you would take your CL positive goats to have them bred! I don't own a buck and have to depend on a local breeder to have them bred each year. I have my girls tested for CAE and this year CL and the breeder I use has her herd tested also. If you had CL positive goats, it would be impossible to have them bred by an outside buck, I would think. 

I'm sorry for you, too. But kidding season is arriving soon and you should be able to find a good doe in milk in the next few months. ADGA is where I found our local breeders. Such great advice and good for you (and your daughter) to notice such things and have the brains to ask the group BEFORE you buy!


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## Bella Star (Oct 27, 2007)

:nooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RUN ---- RUN ----- NEVER buy a goat with CL !! I would never take a chance on a CL lump in the udder and drinking highly bacteria STAPH latent PUS in the milk !! I would never take the chance with CL in a boer ,meat goat or dairy goat for eating the meat as I would think that , where the spot was it would have scar tissue or residue bacteria from the PUS boil spot area and there would be a heavy loss of carcass meat .......... I dont care how pretty or how cheap that goat is .... """ RUN """ !!!

People that has CL in their herd sometimes ,downplay this disease as there is nothing they can do to get it out of their herd as the CL will be around for many years IF you get it in your herd, as the bacteria will be all over the barn,in the walls,posts,stock trailers ,the feeders,soil ....... everything contaminated and every goat that you have WILL be CL+ , NOBODY will want to buy a CL+ goat... no matter how cheap or how pretty the goat is :down .... Dont doom your NEW herd start !! .... Wear shoe covers IF you even go to the CL person farm , It's SCARRY to me and I can really get in a tizzy over CL ......... :nooo In fact wear shoe covers OR wear shoes that you can clean with bleach water IF you go checking and out in someones barn area ,dont bring their dirt home on your shoes , yep I am a health fanatic .


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## Jo~* (Oct 26, 2007)

Bella Star said:


> :nooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> RUN ---- RUN ----- NEVER buy a goat with CL !! I would never take a chance on a CL lump in the udder and drinking highly bacteria STAPH latent PUS in the milk !! I would never take the chance with CL in a boer ,meat goat or dairy goat for eating the meat as I would think that , where the spot was it would have scar tissue or residue bacteria from the PUS boil spot area and there would be a heavy loss of carcass meat .......... I dont care how pretty or how cheap that goat is .... """ RUN """ !!!
> 
> People that has CL in their herd sometimes ,downplay this disease as there is nothing they can do to get it out of their herd as the CL will be around for many years IF you get it in your herd, as the bacteria will be all over the barn,in the walls,posts,stock trailers ,the feeders,soil ....... everything contaminated and every goat that you have WILL be CL+ , NOBODY will want to buy a CL+ goat... no matter how cheap or how pretty the goat is :down .... Dont doom your NEW herd start !! .... Wear shoe covers IF you even go to the CL person farm , It's SCARRY to me and I can really get in a tizzy over CL ......... :nooo In fact wear shoe covers OR wear shoes that you can clean with bleach water IF you go checking and out in someones barn area ,dont bring their dirt home on your shoes , yep I am a health fanatic .


When we got back from the place that had the goats I made everyone take off there cloths and shoes to be disinfected. Even before we got home I made hubby and daughter use the hand sanitizer I keep in the truck. I am even rethinking taking any goats I get to the fair next year! I'm even sorry I drank a glass of milk while there :goatteeth ---but it was really good :lol I am just so glad I did not buy any of them goats.


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## prairiecomforts (Oct 25, 2007)

If you do decide to take animals to a show next year - be careful who you get penned next to. I always go in early and get the pens on the end and then have a pen to separate that I use for tack. I know it sounds weird - but I also take a heavy plastic bag and zip tie it to the ends and sides of my pens fro extra protection. On a local level - we have never run onto CL in goats that have been brought in - but we have had problems with people bringing in sheep with ringworm. It was the superitendents son and it took some of us getting the county commissioners to finally get them dismissed from the fair. Not something I would want to be next to.


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## Bella Star (Oct 27, 2007)

Jo, You really already had a gut feeling about that doe from that farm :/ sounds like .
You did a VERY good thing.... to try the does milk BEFORE buying to see if you like the milk taste.
The milk you drank was fine as hopefully she didnt have a knot in her udder but for sure that doe was CL+ as if you saw other goats there with lumps, that lady's herd was just FULL of CL !!! That lady will always have CL unless she moves and even then ,I would think everything goat stuff would need to be gotten rid of and burnt .
DONT settle for any goat....... LOOK till you get what you want as ,once you get a doe she will kid and your goats multiply fast and if you start out with flawed or sickly goat ... you will end up with a flawed sickly HERD ! BE picky,choosey and get the best goat you can find ! It cost just as much to feed a nice registered goat (if you want one with papers) as it does a sickly sale barn goat and cheaper in the long run as sale barns are where the culls go. CALL your local feed stores and ask them for goat peoples names and numbers ,maby even try your local large animal or livestock vet for goat people to find a GOOD healthy goat .
GOOD LUCK !!!!!!! and the wait and search will be worth it !!


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