# Brown urine ?



## ElLomah (Jun 5, 2013)

One of my does urine has turned brown - it's still a see through clearish, but with a brown/rust tinge to it. I've noticed it for the past 2-3 weeks now - at first it was just now and then - but it seams to be every time she pees now. There is no off smell. She is otherwise seemingly healthy - good weight / appetite, no fever, perky alert etc. She is VERY pregnant - her due date is Tuesday. I'm keeping my fingers crossed and just hoping its 'normal' from late pregnancy - I've just never seen this before. Any ideas or suggestions what this could be a sign of?

She is mini Nubian - 6 years old - this will be her 5th freshening. Alfalfa hay, oats/boss grain ration, CAE negative. 

Thanks for any input.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Hm, I would bring a urine sample to the vet to have that checked out...does not sound normal at all, and I think there are several things that could cause brown urine. Kidney/bladder problems, infections (blood), hemolytic anemia, liver problems, etc, from the quick search I just did (that was for humans, but still). I would think maybe crystals in the urine could cause too, if they irritate the bladder. The vet can run a chemistry strip on it and look at it microscopically to narrow down the cause.


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## punchiepal (Aug 4, 2010)

She may not be drinking enough. Maybe "flavor" her water with something she likes to encourage her to drink more.


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## ElLomah (Jun 5, 2013)

I put a water heater in their tank a few months ago and have noticed they go through it faster now - so I don't think water is the problem. Although - now that I think about it, last time I cleaned it out I noticed the heater was rusting - I wonder if that might be something . . . ? They also now have free choice loose mineral - something they haven't had for a while. I used to just offer a few cups to the group every few days, or over their grain - was too pricey to have it out all the time, but started mixing in some cheaper stuff to make it go farther, so now it's out 24/7 - also noticed a water drinking increase when that happened. It is possible I suppose she is the only one not drinking enough - I'll see if I can monitor that better.

I had seen a lot of things you mentioned Nancy searching the web - right now I'm thinking it's just some dried blood / drainage from pre-kidding. OR my worst fear right now is liver failure from copper toxicity - although that doesn't make sense as none of my other goats are showing signs, and overall our herd is most always showing signs of deficiency, BUT I've never had a liver biopsy done either. She was last bolus about 5 months ago so the time frame would be right.

Today she has a bit of clear discharge so I'm thinking kidding is around the corner. I think I'll wait till after she kids and see if it clears up - or talk to the vet and see what he thinks about the urine sample . . .


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

I would think 5 months from the bolus, she had about used it up? Or do they pull the copper from the rumen for that timeframe and store into the liver all throughout? That part of it, I don't know too much, but I do know it is pretty hard to OD them on copper with the bolus. What mineral are you using? Do you have a lot of copper in the ground where your hay, etc, is grown, or is your area deficient or have excessive amounts? How about molybdenum?


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## ElLomah (Jun 5, 2013)

From what I've read if you OD them on copper it kills their liver and takes about 4-6 months to show up, or after 4-6 months of a continued low overdose - and yes it is stored in the liver. The liver becomes saturated and damaged and then the copper is released into the blood stream. I don't know how long it takes though from then until death - I think sometimes they are fine until a high stress invent, which if this is the case - could be kidding.  I don't believe there is anyway to reverse it.


I know copper OD is rare - I have never seen it locally, and only case I know of personally happened in pygmys. For the past 4-5 years now been bolusing everyone twice a year - just moved to once a year for the mini's now that we have a new mineral, but some of my big girls look to still need it twice a year. I've been giving them the manna pro brand goat mineral - mixed with the ADM Alliance goat power brand mineral, added kelp and yeast culture, and once in a while using the repliman gel plus (at most once monthly on the minis, or as a booster if stressed). Just moved to this last fall, about a month after blousing. Before this they were getting just the manna pro mineral in their grain - about 1TBS a day. And the replimen gel once every 1-2 weeks for the mini's, had started doing that about 1-2 years ago. 

We used to buy our hay from the same farm for about 8 years- locally, but they quite selling small squares about 1-2 years ago when we had a big drought hit. So now we just buy it wherever, but it's all still local. Yes, we have low copper here - I have not tested for or know what our molybdenum levels are like though . . . I know that can effect absorption as well as red iron. I had looked into it many years ago when I first started bolusing, but can't remember what I found . . .

Was also reading it could just be dried blood in the vagina and not actually in her urine at all - just coming out when she pees . . . blah I just wish she would kid already. -_-


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Are you still giving the replamin? If she is having a copper toxicity, I would think that would be one thing that would actually show on her blood? Maybe worth the blood screening?? I wonder if she does have it and you were to give some extra molybdenum if it would help bind up some of the excess copper? Just thinking here... Livers heal pretty well, so long as there is still healthy tissue there and that the animal doesn't die before it has a chance to...


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## ElLomah (Jun 5, 2013)

Well, I was looking more and more into the signs for copper toxicity / liver failure, and she didn't have any other symptoms, which made me think it was something else.

She kidded last night with buck twins - and then this morning for the first time that I have seen in the past few weeks - she peed yellow. 

Yes, I just smiled about goat pee. LOL

Right now, I'm just keeping a close watch on her - and leaning more toward my initial idea that it was just some type of discharge from bing very pregnant and just washing out when she peed. If it turns back brown again, I'll be taking in a sample to the vet. Thanks for brain storming with me


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Great! And I just liked a post about goat pee, so there!


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## clovor (Mar 23, 2014)

LOL!!!


~ Nigerian dwarf goats (2) ~Coloma , CA. ~ random lady


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