# pregnant doe panting



## akhalpin (May 17, 2011)

I have an alpine doe that I tried to get pregnant last fall but she had zero interest in the buck. She was given to me (kind of a rescue). She is seven and kidded once when two. I had given up breeding this doe only to find out she is very pregnant....her udder gave her away. My buck got into her pen sometime in the winter while I was suffering through a herniated disc (I am learning a lot about fences and goats :/) so I have no due date.

Since I did not know she was pregnant, I haven't been feeding her any grain. She ate alfalfa and good quality hay over the winter, hay the last two months and hay and pasture for the past month. She has access to a high selinium mineral block and also loose mineral with selenium.

I believe she is too thin and am concerned that the level of nutrition she has been receiving is not adequate for pregnancy. Since I discovered her pregnancy (1 week ago), I have been giving her BOSS. I gon't have access to alfalfa and so purchased alfalfa pellets.....she refuses to eat them (she is a picky goat).

She is breathing rapidly but shows no other symptoms. Is this a deficiency or just a very pregnant goat (I can't breath when I am pregnant either). Should I give her some sort of vitamins...or supplement with calcium or CMPK??? I am worried about hypocalcemia.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

I would start her on grain, a little at a time, meaning a small dab in the palm of your hand little. Bump her up each week. I would copper bolus if you haven't already. Keep at the pellets...they come around. It won't hurt her to give her CMPK (injectable) and it would probably help her out. 

Tam


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Does she have a lot of hair? Might she be hot? 

The only time I've seen my goats pant is when they are hot or (and not meaning to scare you) one of my does did this a few hours before dying of silent pnuemonia.


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## akhalpin (May 17, 2011)

OK...I am scared now. How would I know if it is silent pneumonia. What would I do about it?


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## carlidoe (Jul 30, 2010)

We had a few really hot days in March. The weather went from 50's to 90's and 100's over night. They were big pregnant and panted during the hottest part of the day. 

I would just watch her. Is she doing it all day long? Even at night and early morning in cooler temps?? Or only during the heat of the day?


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## akhalpin (May 17, 2011)

*Re: pregnant doe panting, CMPK*

OK...I watched her breathing this evening...still a little quicker than my lactating does but nothing like during the day...and she no longer had her mouth open. It wasn't terribly hot today (low 80s) but it has been unseasonably cold here (low 50s, 30s at night) and has warmed up suddenly. She also has a very thick, fairly long coat.

I took her temperature and it was normal. She was also eating and acting normally so for now I'll assume everything is OK and she is just a very pregnant mama.

Thank you all for the nutritional advice. I spoke to a local goat keeper about CMPK and she said it would be hard to get the injectable (our vets are not goat friendly). She said they carried an oral at the feed store and that you could actually inject it. Has anyone tried this?? Or would giving orally be adequate?


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

I would say she is just hot with all that hair and being pregnant. I don't know on the cmpk.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

There is usually an injectable calcium at tractor supply, calcium gluconate, I believe. I might give that orally but I would never inject an oral medication. Of course an injection works better and faster. With the alfalfa pellets I would make sure she has access to them all time. Maybe limit her regular hay to encourage her to eat the pellets. She doesn't have any teeth problems, does she?


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Allyson it has been kind of crazy weather wise huh? We have those weird temps going on too. You can clip her coat so she doesn't have as much hair. I just did a doe yesterday that is due on Sunday, just tied her to a tree and used a 6 mm guard. 
In Goat Info there is a recipe by Sue Reith about homemade CMPK. You can get all the ingredients and make some 
You could also talk to Sandy Reihle (sp?) of Reuel Dairy goats. She may know where you can get it. She lives in Deer Park. There is also Ramona Mather and Barb Kuntz you could contact they know where to find stuff. These are the closest people I know to you.

Tam


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

In wanting to move this doe to alfalfa pellets and some grain, maybe it isn't also now the time to try to be using more oral stuff. Not used to grain or alfalfa she is going to have to slowly build rumen flora to even be able to assimilate the new products in her rumen...and now you are wanting to give her oral stuff that usually contains propolyn glycol that acidifies the contents of the rumen. If you can't get injectable CMPK than get calcium gluconate (large feed stores carry this and you can order it via Jefferslivestock.com)...read Sue Reiths instructions on hypocalcemia but biggy for your doe is going to be pregnancy toxemia or true ketosis, depending upon how many kids she carries and genetically how much milk she is predisposed to having. An older doe who has only kidded once before is likely filled with internal fat, now thin and older, and kidding on a very low nutrition plane, this will be as hard on her as if she kidded obese. She has no calories (energy) in which to grow out those kids and maintain her own weight on the diet she is on.

Her temp will be key with this, a lowered temp and immediatly start her on CMPK or calcium gluconate. If she becomes recumbant, if she has weakness or wobbling in her rear, if her breath becomes acetone smelling.

Even vets who don't do goats will listen to a knowledgeable owner who tells them you have an older doe who is accidentaly bred, you are worried about pregnancy toxemia and ketosis and would like to get injectable CMPK on hand so you are not having to give oral meds OTC. Print out the info in 101, the saanendoah drug list on how to use it so he knows you are using it subq and not IV...do not even bother saying the word hypocalcemia they didn't learn about it in vet school, so it doesn't exsist  If they want to give you propolyne glycol etc...tell them you already ordered it from jeffers.


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## akhalpin (May 17, 2011)

You were right Vicki. I called a local vet and he was fine selling me some CPMK. I just explained the situation and how I was going to use it. 

So I have my CPMK on hand...some BoSe also. I have Nutridrench (contains proplyene glycol) and I also have electrolytes. I am slowly adding a mix of grain/pelleted feed/BOSS/alfalfa pellets to her diet. I have moved her browsing area to a part of my property that has more understory so she can get a better mix of forage and can get into the shade. I just need to get the copper bolus. I saw somewhere today that high iron can prevent the uptake of copper. Our water is full of iron. 

I have read about what to do if the kid is not in proper position (sure hope I don't have to use this knowledge). I have colostrum and bottles on hand. And long gloves and lube stuff if I have to go in. 

Is there anything else? I will be on my own with this if she has problems after office hours. I can't find a livetock vet that has on-call hours. They said they used to but were losing money so they don't anymore.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

If you have to go in, you won't need the lube. They are usually plenty gooey so you can skip it. Also, I found it helpful to get those thin latex (or other material) gloves that you can buy by size so that they fit your hand. You can put these over the long gloves and it gives you much better dexterity. For me, just using those long gloves, they slipped too much so it was hard to get a grip on anything or to get a good feel.

When your doe is in labor or early labor, feel free to go in early and check for position. Just feel for a nose and two hooves. It's easy to feel the nose, sometimes the kid will actually start sucking your finger. If the kid is not in the right position, you know right away and can fix it. Also, after the kid is born, go in and feel if there is another. That way you are not assuming there is or isn't based on doe's labor and then you can again evaluate position. Vicki gave me this advice one night when my doe just didn't seem to continue labor. The third one was a true breech, but because I went in, I could at least get it's hind feet brought around and she delivered it backwards easily. I ended up with three healthy doelings. All because Vicki had me go in and check. 

This was only my second kidding season and first time to go in...if I can do it, you can do it. 

Good job trying to be prepared. I'm sure you'll do fine.


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## akhalpin (May 17, 2011)

Thank you for the encouragement. Should I put some sort of disinfectant on my gloves before I go in? The only thing they had at my feed store was something used for surgery and it has iodine in it.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

You should be fine with just bleach water to clean your arms and hands. I sent you a PM, it has help information for you.
Tam


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## akhalpin (May 17, 2011)

Just wanted to report that my aged Alpine had her babies today without complication. It was a good experience for me because I got to see a normal birth (I missed my two does that kidded earlier this spring). I saw her mucus plug around 10:00 and by 1:00 we had two babies. Pretty cute...daddy buck is a boer so they have interesting ears. The does ears stick up like mom but lay back more...like rabbit ears. The little buckling has ears that flop down but not until after they stand out from his head some...he looks just like a puppy.

So far mom is eating and drinking so I am hopeful that she is going to be OK.

Thank you all....now just one more kidding to go....


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

That's good news. Did you go in to make sure there were no more kids? Did she pass the placenta?


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## akhalpin (May 17, 2011)

I "bounced" her and stayed with her...no more kids. She delivered the placenta about 4 hours later. So far she is a really good goat mother.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Congrats!


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## sarafina (Dec 26, 2009)

So glad your girl made it through her birthing w/o any complications!

:woohoo


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