# Aged doe had stroke/brain trauma



## Becky-DixieDoesAlpines (Oct 26, 2007)

Dealing with a serious issue here. One of the old girls, she’ll be 8 this spring.
We are pretty sure she either stroked or has brain trauma, blood clot, perhaps incurred from fighting. Last week she got into a big fight with a younger, larger doe. The does almost never fight but they were really into it and had to be separated for a day. She has gone down hill since. She has facial paralysis on the left side of her face, lolling tongue, drooping mouth and ear, drooling. She cannot cud or cry, has extreme difficulty eating, drinking, and swallowing. She regularly coughs and chokes on excess saliva since she is not swallowing properly. Talked to my vet yesterday who said to give her a massive dose of steroids to try to bring down brain swelling and reduce pressure, it may cause abortion, but she is not due till 4-1 and honestly at this stage she is more important.
She was given 20 cc (40mg) Dexamethasone at 4:30 yesterday afternoon.
Showed improvement shortly thereafter, and was able to eat and drink some, attempted to cud and got cud up but could not chew it.
She seems to be in less pain too, no longer grinding teeth.
However, we are still dealing with a lot as she can barely eat, is not drinking enough (I’ve tubed water down her to help, but still dehydrated), she is upset and confused and uncoordinated, etc.
It does not help that it is COLD and extremely windy. She has two coats on, in a big box stall with her best friend.
Love this old girl and don't want her to suffer. She is too young and in otherwise great shape to lose her.
Anyone dealt with this, could use thoughts and advice.
Thank you.
Becky


----------



## Gabe (Nov 16, 2007)

Becky if it is a stroke or thrombus, I would give massive doses of aspirin as this is blood thinning. It will help with the blood circulation. I would also give her fortified b complex twice a day. It is a good stress reliever, helps to get her appetite back and therefore prevent her from polio or ketosis.
Instead tubing her fluids, I would give it sq, it is not as stress full and more effective. 
7 years, becoming 8, is not old. I hope you can save her. Good luck


----------



## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

I would give B1 in addition to the B Complex also continue the Dex today and Banamine would also do lactate ringers rather than tubing. and probios


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I would also add banamine. Taking off the edge of pain and giving them enough for a little bit of lala land helps does get over trauma...they don't have time to lay around wishing they would die.


Keep up the Dex make sure your mg/kg is enough with whatever strength you have, I had no idea there were differening strengths of Dex until helping someone recently.

You have to go to subq fluids or you will eventually drown the girl. I would also use an antihistimine from the vet instead of aspirin given the amounts you would have to give and the number it does on the rumen. Hopefully she has enough body reserve to get her through while the palzy runs it's course.

Really look at her head, clean the area if she had scurs, they can ram the scurs into their skull also, makes sure you don't have a piece in there. 

Sorry, we all have some fighting this time of year, right now my two young bucks are back together and fighting. Thankfully it seldom comes to real injury. But yours is the thrid this winter already that was real life threatening injury.

Can your vet come up with a good idea for nutriton since she can't swallow, yet that won't be to acidic for the rumen? Now I would tube that....just not soo much water, goats don't swallow water into their rumen and that is what you tube into. Vicki


----------



## Patty13637 (Oct 26, 2007)

Not a goat but a kitten that was hit by a car . Day 1 &2 he could eat but not move much then no eating or drinking for 2 weeks. I could not put him down because he belonged to my littlest one . She had already lost 2 cats to the road this year . I could not hit a vein and could not afford a huge vet bill so I sub q fluids and force fed goats milk . I had to add antibiotics as he started with respitory problems . watch your goat for signs of that . Ok long story short it was on week 3 he started to eat again and week 4 he started to walk . We are on week 6 now and he still walks like he is drunk but is happy and otherwise healthy. This will not be a short recovery for the goat ... but do not give up she can get better .

How about trying a wet gruel of alfalfa pellets and maybe a dairy pellet ? Soaking her hay or soaking beet pulp ?


Patty


----------



## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

Hope you can pull her through it Becky.How many days did the vet say to give the Dex? Decreasing the dosage? I would be careful and ask the vet about giving any further blood thinning drugs. When my vet had me give a massive dose of Dexamethasone to a doe that had ring womb she told me to be careful and watch her because it could cause excessive bleeding so I think it thins the blood also.


----------



## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

If you take a hand full of beet pulp cover with water and microwave 10 min then thin just enough to syringe. It really helps sustain them with a food source.


----------



## Becky-DixieDoesAlpines (Oct 26, 2007)

Thanks everyone for all the ideas. I was trying to get her info up quick so I didn’t write down every treatment she’s had. I went to the vet for more supplies this AM.
Vicki her head looks fine externally.
The vet thinks it was either a stroke, possibly caused by the stress of fighting or a blood clot from fighting, or just old age.
However she said usually they are at their worst immediately following the stroke and the fact that she has gotten worse since, she feels it is more likely that the fighting may have caused a large clot/hematoma to form and put pressure on her brain, causing facial paralysis. She did say that animals tend to heal quicker and more completely from this type of thing than people.
She can have more dex tomorrow.
So far she is getting Probios, and B, has had BoSe, she is on Banamine.
She can eat a little when handfed, but drops a lot.
She tries to drinks but slops a lot of water and has trouble swallowing a lot.
I have been using a large syringe with her head pointed down and very slowly syringing some warm water into her a few times a day. She doesn’t fight, it is easier for her to get the water she needs.
I just dripped a 1000 ml bag of lactated ringers into her, and gave her Banamine, so bet she feels a lot better this afternoon.
My vet also had me give her a does of Nuflor today and again in 48 hours, she is concerned about aspiration pneumonia from saliva, etc.
I will try some moistened pellets or beret pulp in awhile; right now she is resting after all the meds she just got.
Thanks everyone, ideas are welcome.
Becky


----------



## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

Becky, hope your doe recovers. I had a Nubian that did this last year. She had been fighting for several days and she's not a fighter, so don't know what was going on with her. Anyway, she turned up one morning with her tongue hanging out of her mouth, drooling and slinging cud everywhere, it was such a mess. I got to looking her over and she had no feeling at all on one side of her head and face, the ear on that side was hanging way lower than the other, her eyelid was drooping and she couldn't blink. I treated her much like you are doing, it took several weeks, but she fully recovered from it all!!! So if it's just paralysis from brain swelling, she probably will be fine, just takes a lot of TLC. Anyway, good luck with her.


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Be realistic also. Think of how much liquid by mouth you are really getting in with a syringe, and she needs at least a quart twice a day, and unless she swallows with her head up, it goes into the rumen. Your vet can tape a catheter to the side of her neck for you so you can give her fluids twice a day, or simply do them subq. Warmed of course. Without fluids she will die. She can go for long periods without eating, just don't ruin her rumen by flooding it with liquids or oral meds.

You don't hear about it much but bucks fighting can get big head, where the top of their head under the skin swells so much it can literaly flop the top of the head over. This swelling can cause the same problems in your does, with Dex it was at least 5 or 6 days for them to start eating. The antibiotic was an excellent idea! Vicki


----------



## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

better lay off my suggestion of soaked beet pulp and stick with lactate ringers sq or IV for now.


----------



## Patty13637 (Oct 26, 2007)

Soaked beet pulp pellets or hay/grain will for sure add fluids to her but subq/iv will probally still be neded unless she starts eating alot more.

I have my fingers crossed.

Patty


----------



## Ravens Haven (Oct 26, 2007)

Praying for your doe, Becky...
I am so sorry that this has happened.

Autumn


----------



## SherrieC (Oct 26, 2007)

Becky I hope your old girl pulls through for you. Sherrie


----------



## stacy adams (Oct 29, 2007)

Becky, how's she doing today??


----------



## Becky-DixieDoesAlpines (Oct 26, 2007)

I think we got her hydrated yesterday with that lactated ringers drip. I actually have yet to give her Banamine or dex today, she can have both if needed today, but she has been active, and does not seem to be in pain. I think I'll give her both later today, making it 48 hours for the dex and 24 for the Banamine.
She drank quite a bit yesterday several times, if you offer her warm water and put her mouth to it she will drink, but sloppily. She is swallowing better nd coughing /choking a bit less.
She is nibbling food too. So hanging in there.
It was 18 last night, but it it warmed up o the 30ish and we let her out of the stall to stand in the sun and she seems to be enjoying that.
I think it is just comes down to nursing, if we can keep her warm, hydrated, and eating at least some, while she heals she may have a chance.
thanks all
Becky


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

The banimine and dex are not about pain. If you don't use them it will take longer for the swelling around the brain to lessen and will make her recovery longer. You also only have a short window in which to effectively have a doe who can come back from a brain injury 100%...listerosis, menengial worm, menengitis, if not treated immediatly ends up in a doe who is palzied for life, from mild to severe, and if she can't hold her cud, or drink you will have to eventually put her down.

Plus you have about 6 to 10 days you can safetly give both Dex and Banamine, being NASID drugs, saftely without destroying her liver. Vicki


----------



## Becky-DixieDoesAlpines (Oct 26, 2007)

I know she needs these meds Vicki, but because her intial doses were high the vet wanted me to wait the times I listed unless if she was not improving, then we'd have thrown more meds at her . She is due for saome stuff in a little while.
Becky


----------



## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Praying she continues to improve for you Becky


----------



## prairiecomforts (Oct 25, 2007)

How are things going today Becky? I am sending really positive thoughts your way and hope all is looking better.


----------



## Becky-DixieDoesAlpines (Oct 26, 2007)

I was down at the barn for a while cleaning, filling alfalfa pellet feeders, etc.
I gave her dex and banamine. She is outside today with the herd, though still has 2 warm coats on.
Her earand face are still droping, tongue lolling from her mouth. However she seemed happy to be out, wandering around eating fallen leaves. She drops a lot but is trying to eat and drink which I think is a good sign, that she is not giving up.
Becky


----------



## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

Becky,
How's the doe doing?? I've been thinking about you and her several times today.
Kaye


----------



## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

yes please update us


----------



## Becky-DixieDoesAlpines (Oct 26, 2007)

This AM when I walked in the barn I thought she was dead, she lay so still with her head down. She looked really tired and was grinding her teeth again. I gave her more Dex and banamine and warm water. She is eager to be with the herd and pretty active when let outside. I still have her in the stall this AM, it is COLD here. She can chew her cud for a minute or two at a time and is continuing to nibble at (and drop ) food and sip at and drop water. She is losing weight I know but so far is staying hydrated.
Mainly focusing on keeping her drinking, warm, and meduacted right now.
Thanks for asking.
Becky


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Gave me a start with the 'dead' in the first of the post!

Glad she is doing better for you! Vicki


----------



## goatmom (Oct 26, 2007)

Becky -just wanted to let you know I'm thinking about you and your girl. It's good that she is doing some eating and drinking on her own -I know that must have been a fright for you this morning - Hang in there!!


----------



## Guest (Dec 21, 2007)

My thoughts are with you as well Becky. I hope she continues to improve.

Christy


----------



## Whitney (Oct 27, 2007)

I hope she pulls through for you.


----------



## Dreen (Oct 26, 2007)

I really hope she pulls through for you, Becky. It's really hard to keep doctoring over a protracted period. I keep checking for her condition and am keeping both of you in my prayers.


----------



## Agape Oaks (Oct 30, 2007)

I hope she pulls through for you Becky. Please keep updating!


----------

