# How would y'all feed a Nigerian Dwarf buck?



## horsesandhoofprints (Dec 2, 2013)

Hi, I have a 3 1/2 year old Nigerian Dwarf buck that I'm trying to figure out how best to feed. I want him in shape year-round since he can breed year-round but I don't use him that much and don't want him to get fat.

Right now he's getting about a 1lb. of Purina Goat Chow and free choice grass hay. I've been reading lately about the calcium: phosphate ratio and I now know that that is way too phosphate. I should probably be giving him some alfalfa pellets, but I don't want him to get too fat on alfalfa+ grain. I would like to keep giving him some grain for the minerals in it (he doesn't really have a place where I could keep out free-choice minerals for him) and he needs the grass hay for roughage since he has no pasture/browse. I do have some ammonium chloride I can give him, but I think I remember reading something about that even that doesn't work well against that much phosphate. How would y'all suggest I feed him? Thanks!!


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

I doubt the goat chow has enough minerals in it anyway, not in what quantity you would want to feed him. Nigerians tend to be easy-keepers, even bucks in the winter.  If I were you, I would either switch to just feeding the grass hay, or give him some alfalfa pellets on the side, rather than the grains...you can sprinkle on some minerals to that if you want, or the other thing some people are having success with is a mineral paste called Replamin Plus. You can buy it from PBS Animal Health, I think.


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## Sans Gene Goats (May 15, 2011)

I agree with Nancy, grass hay and supplement with alfalfa pellets, and adjust the alfalfa pellets up or down according to condition. I just top dress loose minerals on top of alfalfa pellets (or Chaffhaye which is what I feed now instead of pellets). I don't usually feed my bucks grain; good quality grass hay with alfalfa has kept them in good condition. Good quality forage, along with good parasite management and general good goatkeeping practices and they should do well


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

Another vote for grass hay plus alfalfa pellets. He'll probably get fat otherwise.


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## Laverne (Apr 4, 2010)

My buck is 5 yrs. old and I have just fed him orchard grass hay. It is high quality though and he stays in good condition on it. I have good water and I've never given him Ammonium Chloride. He rarely gets to breed so doesn't require much but if I used poor quality hay I'd probably supplement with a high quality grass pellet like Timothy which is available here.


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

I feed my ND buck alfalfa mix hay free choice and about 3/4 lb oats per day, loose minerals. He's not fat or thin. Easy keeper, but not in the sense that he tends to get fat. I've actually never had an ND that tended toward fat.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

I also feed my bucks grass hay plus alfalfa of some kind year round. They only get grain and/or beet pulp when they get thin from rut.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

You have weird Nigerians, Angie! Haha. Mine all try to be tubbos!

My bucks are all on pasture-only when the grass gets going good, and they put weight on with it too, surprisingly!


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

We have been dry lot for years now. I can see how having fresh forage, they might not need grain. Good pasture will make some animals fat. My horses have to be limited. They get so fat, lol.


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## couto_123 (Jul 16, 2010)

I feed mine 1 cup ADM goat feed , minerals free choice, and grass hay. They are still tubbies ... except for rut, they they actually get down to "normal" lol.


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## prutko (Mar 12, 2011)

Hi,

I am a bit puzzled by all the responses. I have been told to stay away from Alfalfa (hay and pellets) for bucks/wethers as it is high in calcium and contributes to urinary problems. The person giving me this advice has her own herd management business and is well versed in goat health. Haven't any of you had issues giving your "boys" alfalfa??

I look forward to your feedback!


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## Laverne (Apr 4, 2010)

My buck doesn't get alfalfa, as I posted on this thread, and probably never will, but if he was used heavily breeding and was losing weight on the high quality grass hay I have, I would probably balance the grain with alfalfa, since he would need more energy calories, so hopefully balance the calcium/phosphorus, and give him AC since I'd be paranoid. I'm glad I don't have to worry about it. Here's an article on the subject http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/f28/ur...inary-calculi-bladder-stones-sue-reith-16486/

Since the OP's buck doesn't breed much, like my Nigerian buck, he could probably get by on grass hay like mine does.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

You were told wrong.

The problem is an imbalance of Ca. Sometimes too much calcium from alfalfa can become an issue, but almost every case of urinary calculi/stones/urolithiasis in bucks is caused by too much phosphorus in the diet. Alfalfa is high in calcium, most grass hays are right about 2:1 Ca, and grain is higher to the phosphorus side. So long as you balance the diet, you should be good to go. The appropriate ratio is 2:1, and even higher than that can be just fine, you just don't want lower than that, which is what happens when you feed grass hay and grain together.


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

Agree, too much calcium is almost never the problem for bucks or does. Alfalfa/clover has greatly improved the health of my herd. We grow a forage mix here that is alfalfa, white clover, red clover, and grass. (I originally meant it to be pasture, but my husband talked me into baling it and feeding it as hay.). You will not feel softer coats anywhere, even the bucks are super soft. I don't feed alot of supplemental minerals, copper bolus or anything. It's just a really good forage mix. I'm sure my soil and water must be good too.


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## Laverne (Apr 4, 2010)

If grass hay only is bad for bucks and wethers then the portion of Sue Reith's article should have a disclaimer added or it needs removed.

"An imbalanced diet in this situation is most commonly one that contains either too much grain, or no grain at all. Both approaches are equally harmful if you feed alfalfa for forage (roughage). In that case, to prevent urolithiasis it's important to correct this imbalance by feeding some, but only a very small amount, of grain.* OTOH, if you feed only grass hay, to avoid urolithiasis NO grain can be fed at all. If you are concerned about the lack of nutritional intake when feeding grass hay, my recommendation is that you provide just a small daily ration of Calf Manna to provide that additional nutrition... Check it out on the Manna Pro site, http://www.mannapro.com/calf_manna_tech.htm. The label info states that it provides 25% protein, Calcium: ~0.9%, Phosphorus 0.6% (1.5:1 ratio of Calcium to phosphorus, ideal for a 'non-working' animal such as a wether), plus some important additional nutrients."

"If feeding alfalfa, the correct balance of at least 2 parts calcium (in alfalfa) to every 1 part phosphorus (in grain)* is reached by providing a daily ration of free-choice alfalfa or an alfalfa/grass combo, along with a maximum of 2 cups of grain per day. If feeding straight grass, it's essential to feed NO grain at all! Timothy**, if available, is an ideally balanced feed for goats all by itself.*** Routinely provide all goats, at all times, with fresh water, and make supplemental free-choice loose trace-mineral salt available as well."


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## prutko (Mar 12, 2011)

Thanks for all that info! I appreciate the feedback. It's wonderful to be able to share knowledge in this way. It makes for happier goatkeepers ... and goats!


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## 2wFarm (Sep 20, 2012)

prutko said:


> Thanks for all that info! I appreciate the feedback. It's wonderful to be able to share knowledge in this way. It makes for happier goatkeepers ... and goats!


 It is great to share knowledge!:yes


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

I think Laverne, Sue is just saying if you feed grass hay without legumes, then do not feed grain - cause the grain would cause there to be too much phosphorus. For my bucks at least it would have to be some really exceptional grass hay. They have just done so much better since I moved to alfalfa/clover with oats as grain.


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## Laverne (Apr 4, 2010)

That article confuses me since she says, "feeding only grass" and providing a small amount of calf manna for more nutrition if needed, then mentions feeding "straight grass".

I really think that I'm not having a problem with my male goats because they drink adequate water due to it's quality. I am feeding Orchard grass.

Here is a chart showing cal./phos. ratios of hay. Timothy looks to be balanced, I wish it was easier to find good Timothy.

*Calciumhosphorus Ratios of Common Hays*

*The following chart provides nutritional data for common forages. Values are ordered so you can easily determine the most calcium rich hays. Variations occur from field to field. Remember that growing conditions, maturity, and soil nutrients affect all mineral percents and ratios.*

*Calciumhosphorus Ratio 
Ca -- Hay*

5.9:1 -- Clover, White 
5.8:1 -- Alfalfa - Midbloom 
5.6:1 -- Alfalfa - Mature 
5.6:1 -- Clover, Red - Mature 
5.5:1 -- Clover, Red ---- All 
5.3:1 -- Alfalfa ---- All 
5.1:1 -- Prairie Grass, Midwest - Mature 
4.5:1 -- Alfalfa - Prebloom 
4.4:1 -- Bromegrass - Mature 
4.2:1 -- Clover, Red - Immature 
3.1:1 -- Lespedeza, Common 
3.0:1 -- Prairie Grass, Midwest - Immature 
2.7:1 -- Quackgrass 
2.7:1 -- Bermudagrass 
2.5:1 -- Prairie Grass, Midwest 
2.4:1 -- Grass ---- All 
2.4:1 -- Grass - Mature 
2.2:1 -- Timothy ---- All 
2.1:1 -- Bromegrass ---- All *Calciumhosphorus Ratio 
Ca -- Hay*

1.9:1 -- Wheat, Intermediate 
1.8:1 -- Timothy Early Bloom 
1.7:1 -- Fescue, Tall 
1.7:1 -- Timothy Fullbloom 
1.7:1 -- Rye 
1.7:1 -- Wheat, Crested 
1.6:1 -- Timothy Midbloom 
1.5:1 -- Orchardgrass 
1.5:1 -- Bluegrass, Kentucky -- All 
1.4:1 -- Wheat, Slender 
1.3:1 -- Timothy - Prebloom 
1.3:1 -- Oats ---- All 
1.3:1 -- Fescue, Meadow 
1.2:1 -- Bluegrass, Kentucky - Mature 
1.1:1 -- Oats - Dough Stage 
0.8:1 -- Oats - Immature 
0.8:1 -- Bromegrass - Prebloom 
0.7:1 -- Wheat


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