# Forages for Dairy Goat Pasture



## mrprevost (Jun 21, 2012)

I'm plowing up a 1 acre pasture in preparation for dairy goats in very north Alabama (2 mi south of TN). Never owned a goat before. Never planted forage before. I've been researching forages for a while, but I need advice from someone with experience. Since I'm starting from scratch, I have a chance to get it right.

Alfalfa seems to be the queen of forages, but can cause bloat. Birdsfoot trefoil is almost as good, and doesn't bloat, but may have problems with persistence (although there is a new variety that also spreads from rhizomes). Chicory seems very good-- high protein and minerals and no bloat. All these are quite drought tolerant (important for us, although I may irrigate). Trefoil and chicory both have tannins which is why they don't cause bloat but also I read that the tannins help keep parasites down in small ruminants. So I like trefoil and chicory. Lespedeza is also a non-bloating, tannin containing legume that grows well here.

BUT, I read that birdsfoot trefoil and chicory can cause milk taint if there is too much of it. Many places say to keep it less than 50% of what the animal eats. So, I'm thinking 40% would be safe (unless they have a preference for them, in which case, I couldn't control it anyway). I DON'T want bitter milk.

Also, you want about 40% legumes, from what I read, for the nitrogen.

So here's a shot at a mix that is 40% lugume and 40% tannin forage and only 20% "bloatable" forage: 

40% beneficial endophyte tall fescue ("MaxQ")
20% graze tolerant alfalfa ("Alfagraze type"), 
20% birdsfoot trefoil, 
20% forage chicory ("Choice" because it has less of tannins that cause milk taint -- designed more for dairy).

I may need to also mix in a warm season perennial grass like switchgrass or big bluestem or bahiagrass. All these (except maybe the warm season grass) are fall plantable here and all get planted to about the same depth, etc. So they can all go in at the same time.

*So, does anyone have bad experiences with birdsfoot trefoil or chicory making your milk taste bad?* If so, I may need to swap them out for white clover and more fescue. I've read more people blame trefoil for bitter milk than chicory. Perhaps I would be safe to just swap out the trefoil for white clover. It's bloatable, but it does grow well here -- cultivars like Durana seem very persistant.

*Does this sound like it would work well?* There's so much I don't know about this, it would be nice to have a sanity check.

*Any other suggestions for dairy goat pasture?*

Thanks!


----------



## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Welcome to the forum! 

I'm not terribly experienced in this but will add the info I know. If I were you, I would plant at least 40% au grazer sericea lespedesa. Only downfall with this product is a- it's pricey and b-it's hard to get. So you may decide not to go with it. It is a legume, not quite as awesome as alfalfa but still very high in protein and calcium like most all legumes. But more than that, it's very drought tolerant (not sure of y'alls climate down there but we have some pretty hot dry summers many years here) moreso than even bermuda grass. Last year we had a nasty drought with very high temperatures. We were hitting 115 in the shade with blazing sun and clear skies day after day. Just about the only thing around here that stayed green was sericea lespedeza. The au grazer variety is recommended because it's been developed to put up with grazing/haying better than the regular variety and also is more palatable for cattle and horses. Also au grazer has been shown to be a natural wormer for goats, keeping barberpole down naturally. That said, I have only planted it this year so I don't have real, personal experience with it specificially. I just know the regular variety that grows around here is both loved by goats and handles drought and heat beautifully. 

I know trefoil is a great forage, not much experience with chicory. I have heard that the endophyte free fescue is not near as vigorous as the regular stuff. We have fescue in our fields and I've never had kiddings problems from it. Always had only live born kids until 1 this year. I wouldn't mess with alfalfa as I expect your bugs may just tear it up. I know around here it's hard to grow. Just not meant for our warm climate I guess. 

For grasses I actually really like rye for cool season and crabgrass for warm season. Goats LOVE crab grass, it's high protein and it's tough. I've only used the rye once, this last year but it's good stuff, puts up with cold and the goats love it. I know Lee (buckrun) has used it a lot more than I. 

Please fill in your signature info with your real name, breeds owned and area of the country. Helps everyone know how to help you better with varying questions on the forum.  And requiring people's real names helps reduce spamming and such on the board.


----------



## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Welcome to the forum!


----------



## Qz Sioux (Feb 21, 2009)

Welcome to the forum. Are you going to allow them any browse? Since goats are much like deer, they tend to have their heads up in the trees and bushes. They do enjoy weeds too, but don't forget the high-up things that they enjoy.


----------



## Aja-Sammati (Oct 26, 2007)

I did notice that most of the plants on your list are taller, so goats would graze/browse them better. I recommend splitting your field for rotation, even though it is smaller. Willow is also an excellent forage, and drought tolerant once established. It grows fast and can provide shade also. Here is a good article on lespedeza:
http://www.extension.org/pages/19420/goat-pastures-sericea-lespedeza


----------



## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

From what I know about fescue, it will eventually take over your pasture, at least that is what it does here in central va. Hay growers have to replant their orchard/timothy fields about every 2 years due to the fescue taking it over. Alfalfa also needs to be re-seeded. Rye can be overseeded in the fall for winter forage...unless you have chickens...they will eat the seed.


----------



## mrprevost (Jun 21, 2012)

Ashley said:


> If I were you, I would plant at least 40% au grazer sericea lespedesa. Only downfall with this product is a- it's pricey and b-it's hard to get. So you may decide not to go with it. [...]


Yes. I've read about AU Grazer. Lespedeza grows well here. I hear it's a bit hard to establish, like trefoil. It's high in tannins too. *You don't have any trouble with milk tasting bad from 40% lespedeza?*



Ashley said:


> I wouldn't mess with alfalfa as I expect your bugs may just tear it up. I know around here it's hard to grow. Just not meant for our warm climate I guess.


Hmmm.... Will check into that. Don't want forage that will not stay there.



Ashley said:


> For grasses I actually really like rye for cool season and crabgrass for warm season. Goats LOVE crab grass, it's high protein and it's tough. I've only used the rye once, this last year but it's good stuff, puts up with cold and the goats love it. I know Lee (buckrun) has used it a lot more than I.


I read a little about crabgrass. Will look into it more. I think technically crabgrass is an annual. Do you sow it or does it come back every year on its own? Probably self seeds. I know it grows GREAT in my garden! And comes back every year. It it grows great, has good nutrition, and goats love it, then seems like a good forage to me.

So already you guys have helped. "Grows well here" is an important trait. Maybe alfalfa is not a good idea. I think I you have to plant lespedeza in the spring and seedling vigor is low -- like trefoil. I wonder if I can plant get unhulled seed in the fall and it will come up in the spring... Will look into that.

Thanks!


----------



## mrprevost (Jun 21, 2012)

Qz Sioux said:


> Welcome to the forum. Are you going to allow them any browse? Since goats are much like deer, they tend to have their heads up in the trees and bushes. They do enjoy weeds too, but don't forget the high-up things that they enjoy.


I would love to let them browse but I have exactly 4 trees on my 5 acre property. All cleared, unfortunately.


----------



## mrprevost (Jun 21, 2012)

Anita Martin said:


> From what I know about fescue, it will eventually take over your pasture, at least that is what it does here in central va. Hay growers have to replant their orchard/timothy fields about every 2 years due to the fescue taking it over. Alfalfa also needs to be re-seeded. Rye can be overseeded in the fall for winter forage...unless you have chickens...they will eat the seed.


Fescue take over? People down here have to reseed. Perhaps it's a little hot for it down here. Also, I wonder if the other grasses are just less persistent than fescue there.

I have also read that the endophyte free fescue does not last as long. But I think it's because the endophyte helps the plant with insect resistance, so if you take away the endophyte, then the fescue get attacked more. But the endophyte also produces compounds toxic to animals. This is why they came up with "beneficial endophyte". They innoculate it with a different kind of endophyte that is not toxic to animals, but still provides the insect resistance. The only thing that worries me is where did they get this beneficial endophyte? I just hope it was not engineered in some geneticist's lab.


----------



## mrprevost (Jun 21, 2012)

More research on lespedeza. 

My big problem with lespedeza is that it does seem to like to get started in the presence of other plants. The seedling vigor is low. And it doesn't like to be planted in the fall. Also it doesn't produce as much nitrogen. Produces enough for itself, but not for other nearby plants.

I would definitely like to have some, though. Perhaps it would be best to get started with things that I know will plant and grow at the same time and then try to get some other varieties in later. I think this may be the strategy with warm season grasses like crabgrass. Once the other forage is stable, then in mid spring, just broadcast some crabgrass seed and some lespedeza out there and see what happens. Maybe LIGHT discing before broadcasting and a drag harrow afterward.

Alfalfa does seem very picky. Perhaps I should swap out alfalfa for white clover (Durana) in my mix.


----------



## tlcnubians (Jan 21, 2011)

If you haven't already done so, I'd suggest contacting your local ag extension office or land grant university for information on types of forages that do well in your area. Just by googling "texas forage information" I pulled up a lot of articles pertinent to our area.

Welcome to the forum!


----------



## Rose (Oct 26, 2007)

Do you know the history of what has been grown on the land you have? If it had cotton on it, you could have trouble with cotton root rot and alfalfa. It's why I can't grow alfalfa in my neck of the woods in Texas. :down


----------



## feistymomma (May 20, 2009)

On fescue, couldn't it hurt milk production? I know there are some different fescue varieties out there, but in horses plain fescue, like Kentucky 31, will dry a mare up fast. I avoid it at all cost here. We have mainly alfalfa and clover. Seems to work well for us, but our animals don't forage a whole lot due to animal attack risks ( lots of coyotes)


----------



## Aja-Sammati (Oct 26, 2007)

> I would love to let them browse but I have exactly 4 trees on my 5 acre property. All cleared, unfortunately.


Another good reason to add some willow- good forage AND you'd have trees again 
Also, if you split the pasture to allow for rotation, it also allows you different plots to try out your different forage mixes. Just an idea!


----------



## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

If you add willow, how long do you have to keep goats of the pasture to let it get established? Do you have to keep replanting?


----------



## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

Another great idea is to gather sweet gum balls and plant them everywhere - along the fence lines and wherever else you can think.... When the trees are about head tall clip them back to make them spread out - the goats love them.


----------



## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Tim, I have wondered about sweet gum. I thought about planting it but then I was worried about goats eating those balls. But if you have personal experience with them being ok, that makes me feel better about it. Another thing I have wondered about is hybrid willows. Are they safe to eat?


----------



## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

We had a huge sweet gum in our pasture in Texas. They didn't eat the bales though I did have to clear them or they couldn't sleep under the tree.


----------



## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Yes, the sericea is slow to get established, but a lot of very hardy plants are (because they are focusing on root development). Like bermuda. You will have to plow or till to plant it, but I would do that anyway if you are really wanting to start a new stand of anything. Like Rye can be overseeded, but it does better when the ground has been disturbed. I planted the sericea after plowing and it is a couple inches tall now and seems to be doing fine with the crabgrass coming up with it (yes, the crab grass has come in naturally, the goats eat it and pass the seeds in their stool so in all the places they poo here comes the crab grass!).


----------



## mrprevost (Jun 21, 2012)

Hey guys!

Thanks for all the advice. Did post all weekend because I was busy plowing and tilling the pasture area I'm preparing. You can see some pictures and videos of the area and soil texture and such at http://www.prevostfamily.org/2012/06/preparing-goat-pasture.html.

I've been talking with a few extension agents. One of them has a lot of experience with dairy goats. They don't recommend that I try alfalfa -- too picky and hard to grow. They also have no experience with birdsfoot trefoil. One of them did say that novel endophyte tall fescue (like MaxQ) would do well, especially with white clover (like Durana). They both recommended serecia lespedeza (AU Grazer). The dairy goat guy said that I should focus on getting white clover, orchard grass, chicory, and annual rye grass established this fall. He says that, for goats, orchard grass is a better cool season perennial grass than tall fescue. Then work on lespedeza, and summer annuals in the spring.

The dairy goat guy also recommended Sunn Hemp (a tall, fast growing tropical legume) and Sodbuster Radishes as summer annuals (see http://www.petcherseeds.com/). He seemed to not be as concerned as I am about having permanent pasture as I am (e.g. orchard grass over tall fescue). He said I would have to overseed orchard grass every few years. He said not to worry about fescue -- it would show up on its own. Sunn Hemp and Sodbuster Radishes sound cool. A little concerned about Sunn Hemp shading out everything else.

Doing more research on orchard grass in the South.

*Any experiences with orchard grass vs tall fescue for dairy goats?*

Thanks!


----------



## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Only experience I have with orchard grass is the neighboring field has some growing and it's absolutely gorgeous and the goats LOVE it.


----------



## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

No experience here with planting fescue but I've heard that the endophyte free will be over taken in a few years by the type that contains the endyphyte, and like orchard grass, it would need to be reseeded every couple of years. Growing thick cover crops like rye and clover might help keep the fescue out.


----------



## Aja-Sammati (Oct 26, 2007)

You would want to fence around any trees for a few of years, use some hot wire maybe to keep them off the fences, then if you rotate, they should be okay. You can protect adult tree trunks with a chicken wire wrap.


----------



## mrprevost (Jun 21, 2012)

Anita Martin said:


> No experience here with planting fescue but I've heard that the endophyte free will be over taken in a few years by the type that contains the endyphyte, and like orchard grass, it would need to be reseeded every couple of years. Growing thick cover crops like rye and clover might help keep the fescue out.


This is basically what the goat-specialist extension agent said. So after a lot of thought and research and consulting experts, I think I've settled on white clover (Durana: http://www.penningtonusa.com/pc-_15-pd-_421) and orchardgrass (Persist: http://www.persistorchardgrass.com/persistorchardgrass.htm). And then get as much lexpedeza (AU Grazer) to grow in the spring as I can with the goal of:

40% Orchardgrass
35% Lespedeza
35% White Clover

So that would be the perennial part of the pasture. Winter annuals would be rye grass + cereal rye + cold hearty clovers (crimson, arrowleaf, red). Summer annuals would be crabgrass and maybe some Sunn Hemp. I'm eliminating the chicory for now. I probably have enough diversity and there is some risk of milk taint with chicory.

So, the mix would be pretty diverse with all the annuals -- and very leguminous, which means lots of protein. The grass component (orchard/rye/crab) and the lespedeza should eliminate any bloat problems from the clovers. The annuals should keep me in forage most of the year -- especially if I irrigate. In theory, anyway. I've never done any of this before, so I have no idea how well it will turn out in real life.

I wonder if I can get at least some of the lespedeza established this year in late summer / early fall. Will talk to extension agent about it.

Any feedback? Thanks for all yall's advice. It has been very helpful.

BTW, for those in the South, there are excellent videos from the university of Georgia on forages. They even have a 4 part series on goat forages. Look here: http://www.caes.uga.edu/commodities/fieldcrops/forages/Lectures.html

Thanks again!


----------



## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

I think that it is so interesting to see the differences in places regarding attitudes towards certain plants. Here in KS, sericea lespedeza is labeled an invasive species and it's illegal to plant it (and in fact, you are required to remove any plants that you find) and in AL, it is a recommended forage plant!


----------



## mrprevost (Jun 21, 2012)

*Goat Pasture Update*

Well, It;s been a while and the goat pasture is looking OK now. Here's an update.

Last fall, I planted Persist Orchargrass and several clovers (Durana white, RegalGraze ladino, Apache arrowleaf, Dixie crimson). Then immediately a big rain came and washed them away. So I planted more of the same, but added some annual rye for erosion control. Well, the annual ryegrass choked out a lot of the orchardgrass and clover, but now that they ryegrass is gone, they is making a comeback now -- especially the clover. The crimson clover was humongous also, and that probably hurt the orchardgrass too. Some of the pasture (0.8 acres, we call it "the back point 80") is in a little shade and is a bit moister and this area has LOTS of clover, some 100% clover. The upper area in full sun has much less clover. Looks like the orchard grass is coming back though, but it looks a lot like the ryegrass, so I'm not toally sure. The orchardgrass has a bit finer or smoother leaf and has a bit more bluish color to it.

This spring, I planted 50# of AU Grazer sericea lespedeza. I just mowed the pasture, then dragged it with a chain drag. I broadcast the seed with a chest spreader and then dragged it again. It looked pretty bad afterward. When they say that lespedeza has "low seedling vigor" then mean it! I thought it may be a lost cause. It's growing, but mostly in the areas that don't have much clover -- the clover is very aggressive and shades it out. And it grows VERY SLOWLY. But at least there is some lespedeza in there. In most places, it seems there is "a little lespedeza in every bite". This should help with potential bloat issues and maybe help with intestinal worms some.

This fall I am planting plantain and chicory. A little afraid of chicory because it can cause milk taint in high doses, but it will probably be less than 15% of the pasture. Plantain doesn't have this issue and I'm hoping to have mostly clover and plantain with some orchardgrass, lespedeza and chicory in there too. Wish I had more lespedeza though. Maybe next spring. Dunno.

Crimson clover and annual rye seem to be VERY good in late winter / early spring. May plant them again next fall, but not this year because I want the plantain and chicory to get off to a good start.

Next spring I want to plant some Quick-n-Big crabgrass for summer forage. Hopefully I'll have goats by then! But then I should be done adding new forage species. The only big gaps are in the winter, but the plantain and some annual rye / crimson clover should help some. Still need to get fences up and prepare one of the barn stalls as a milking area. So much to do turning these 5 acres into a "real farm".


----------

