# Copper bolusing



## Green Prairie (Apr 21, 2009)

I posted a couple of weeks ago about my Nubian goat with staph pimples on her udder. I have literally been fighting these stupid bumps SINCE then. I am sure this is what they are. Once they seem to clear up, I stop treatment and they come back :crazy now on both does.

We just moved (stress) to a completely clean and dry, no previous animals place. We've been here for a bit over a week, and the bumps are actually worse. I am using full strength chlorhexidine and Dura pen on both of them. Really getting the udder soaked good. 

So as if the fog parted, I am seeing frizzy, dry hair and lightening hair, even on the three month old kids. DUH. Major copper bolus time. I lived in a different state where this was not an issue (my previous herd) so I am slow on the uptake here.

I am going to order all of the supplies and just want to make sure I'm ordering everything I need.

Copasure 12.5 to put in gel capsules

Gel capsules (1 inch, right?)

bolus gun thing

I can figure out the dose OK . . . is it OK to bolus 2 and 3 month old kids, based on weight?

Any experienced copper bolusing advice? I've not done it before.

Kim


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Hey Kim, I could never get a good size on the capsules so I just went to my health food store and bought two sizes, one smaller, about the size we take pills with, and one larger, but not 1 inch! I would rather poke down 3 capsules in a 150 pound doe than give her 1 big one that I am afraid of gagging her on. It is what works for me. And yes I have bolused 12 weeks old two years in a row now.

Nearly all my does until they hit 3, I can straddle their necks on the milkstand, lift their head slightly and put the pill gun at the back of their throat over thier tongue, press the plunger and hold their mouths shut. I get down and stand there and watch them carefully to make sure they do not spit it out or chew it up. I have to have help doing my older milkers and my bucks, I wait until my girlfriend is here and she is trimming their feet, she helps me do them with their heads clipped high to the fence. Vicki


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Just bought some at the health food store and they are NOW brand 250 for $6.49 "00" a calf bolus will fill 5 of these with a tad extra I use 3 on the 150 does and go from there.


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## Green Prairie (Apr 21, 2009)

You ladies make it sound like something I can do 

I was worried about the one inch pill (which would, according to the website I was reading, hold the proper grams of copper).

I ordered the bolus gun and Copasure today from Jeffers, they had the best prices I could find, but I didn't look very hard.

Funny how all of a sudden their coats degenerated. I was reading that sandy loam soil (I'm in a flood plain) is especially poor in copper. And my girls have been eating hay from the pasture and blackberry brambles since we got here, as much as they want, plus alfalfa pellets and their grain. They have minerals too but never have been much interested in them.

Like, overnight they look like crap, even the three month olds.

How many weeks will it be until the copper takes effect?


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## helmstead (Jun 19, 2009)

Most of the time I see improvement after 2-3 weeks. The lighter colored does, it's harder to appreciate until you pet them and feel how soft their coats get. Always, within a month...you can tell you did something. :biggrin


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Make sure you get the right bolus gun too. Somehow we got this GREAT BIG pluger thing I cant even get the bolus to stay into let alone get it down a goats throat. Tammy


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## Green Prairie (Apr 21, 2009)

They had plastic bolus guns for $1.25 and stainless steel ones for a bunch more . . . I got the stainless steel because as long as I'm here, I'll be bolusing again and again, that's for sure. I think the Copasure comes with a tip for the bolus guns as well. If I do end up getting the wrong one, I'll prop their mouths open with pvc pipe and cram it down their throats with my fingers if I have to :crazy


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## mill-valley (Feb 22, 2008)

The thing that comes with the boluses is like a little rubber tube that you put the capsule in, attach to a drench syringe full of water, and flush it down. As far as I understand, the copper won't be effective as it goes into the wrong stomach that way.

I use the size small plastic bolus gun with 00 capsules. If I had to guess...I think the SS one will be too big. Hopefully not. They do chew up the plastic ones.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

If you do this correctly your plastic pill gun will last forever, you don't put it or the capsule near their rear molars, it goes futher down the throat than that, way at the back of the tongue before you depress it. A little peanut butter sticks the capsule into the plunger until you push it. Vicki


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## pokyone42 (Oct 26, 2007)

GREAT idea with the Peanut butter! Never thought of that, and I find that sometimes, the capsule falls out of the small plastic gun as I am trying to get it down the throat! Thanks for that tip!


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## jcran (Feb 17, 2009)

I just did a bolus workshop with my 4-Hers today. I told them to use the plastic dog pill gun...maybe from Jeffers? It sure makes bolusing easier for me and I can fit 3 pills in pretty handily. We made enough capsules for them to take home to their goatios. We worked out the cost per capsules (5 per big calf bolus) at about $0.28 per capsule which makes it less than $1.00 per adult doe to dose. Pretty inexpensive way to boost repro/hoof/hair health.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Excellent Joan! vicki


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## pop (Dec 25, 2007)

Would someone mind going over the proper doses and such just to refresh our memories ? Thanks


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

We have the bolusing info on the forum under "Copper Info research done by Joyce Lazzaro" her info is really straight forward. Order your copper bolus from jefferspet.com and I get my capsules at my health food store locally. Vicki


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

It is in the first thread and is highlighted in red so scroll down


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## pop (Dec 25, 2007)

Thanks so much for all of your help


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## jcran (Feb 17, 2009)

I am sooooooo proud of my 4-Her! She and her mom ordered kelp to add to their ration, and after yesterday's copper bolusing workshop, they went to the feed store and found the dog pill gun! They even got ME another one (my old one is pretty chewed up-goat's have SHARP back teeth, eh?) and brought me 4 lbs of kelp! Anyhow, the name of the pill gun is a "Pet pill dispenser". It has a picture of a collie on the front. It sure has been easier for me to use than a standard bolus gun, even a small one.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

I just finished all the girls on the milk stand and except for my smallest goat MM all were very nice  I have to get me one of those Pet Pill dispensers


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## Green Prairie (Apr 21, 2009)

Thanks so much for all the ideas and advice!! This is such a great place to find 

The advice about peanut butter and getting the capsule farther back than the molars is going to be helpful.

I wonder if they have a pet pill dispenser at my feed store. That will go on the list . . . I expected a plastic gun would last through one or two sets of goat molars, and probably would have if I didn't get good direction!

I'll check out the literature too


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

I seem to be blind. I can't figure out from Joyce's information in that thread exactly how much to give each goat.

Is this the link I'm looking for for dosage by weight?

http://saanendoah.com/cubolusdosechart.html

And then those 1/8 oz capsules...? How many grams are those? Or don't get those, but order other gel caps in the sizes off that chart? And for converting the grams to mL... Looks like 6.5g = 2.74 mL? Or 2 of the 000 sized capsules full? And that's the dose for a 150 lb animal? But if I'm dosing a 56 pound animal, I only need to give 2.5g, or 1.05mL so roughly fill 2 of the #1 size capsules? Recommend any of those capsule fillers on the market, or can this be done by hand?

And the balling gun... is this the one to get:

http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e07f73-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5&search=20155

I'm sure it seems all very straightforward to everyone else, but my math skills have long been forgotten!

?? ?? ??


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Reason I'm asking, is that even w/the new mineral, my does hooves are still not what they should be, and a black doeling is already getting tinges of red. If I've got it calculated right, I could work on a chart that might make dosing a little easier...

(real question at end of first page)


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

bump


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Billie I just dump the 12.5 gram bolus into a white paper plate. I pretend it is simply 12 grams since I am going to loose some in deviding it out anyway. So since each 22 pounds of goat weight needs 1 gram, I just take a knife and devide the pile into half, this would give you 6 grams...so 6 times 22 equals 132 pounds of goat....devided into half again on the plate gives you smaller piles that are 3 grams so bolus 66 pounds of goats. So each 12.5 gram bolus is enough to bolus 275 pounds of goats, but is really too large to put down the throat of even big bucks for me. So I would rather divy them up, then keep them in the fridge in ziplocks. Then when it's time to bolus prebreeding I simply weigh the doe...210 pound doe will then gets 3 of the 66 pound bolus's.

I don't make exact weight boluses for anyone, a little more or a little less has never been a big deal here, for me its the size of the bolus, so it's easy to give with my pill gun. I would rather give 2 or 3 and than 1 large one.

I am not at my computer at home to have my Goat Medicine book in front of me where I have written down these directions, so don't take all of this exactly. All I know for sure is that you want to use 1 gram of rods for each 22 pounds of goat. Vicki


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Thanks, Vicki! I read where you got your gelcaps at your healthfood store. So, would you buy the size you want to fit down them, fill as many as it takes to get 1/4 of the Copasure bolus in them, and bag that, or is there a specific size you like?

Any special trick to filling the gelcaps?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I have a tiny funnel I use, brushing the rods into the funnel with a paint brush, I have also folded the paperplate and let it slide down the fold...in fact I am doing so many of these for other people I am going to sell them now. This way they just tell me how much their goat weighs, I mix up 1 or 2 capsules and put the does name and weight on the little ziplock to give to the goat. All they have to buy is the pill gun which is less than 5$ because the pill gun is too long to fit in the flat rate box I am using. Vicki

When I need new gel caps I simply take the sizes I need into my health food store and she gets them for me, now I am going to just buy the whole box and then I can share the sizes


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## catdance62 (Mar 2, 2009)

you can also get gelcaps on Ebay. I bought a size my health food store didnt have on there and it was pretty cheap. 
Cant ya just find everything on Ebay? Love it!


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

great tips! Thanks!


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

There is a dandy little capsule filling tray that you can get pretty cheaply as well.
If you are going to be doing very many it will save time. I have forgotten the name but you drop the caps into holes that hold them upright and then just dump the stuff and use a stiff card to spread the herbs or whatever and then you take a little spacer out from under the tray and this lets the tray fall down some so the tops of the caps are exposed so you can put the other half on them while they are still in the holder. We used one before herbal blends were commonly available commercially and I think it was 12.00. 
L


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## laughter777 (Jun 16, 2008)

Vicki,
What are you selling boluses for? I would need to get weights on everyone to know how many I need and would be able to pick them up instead of shipping.


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## mamatomany (Aug 7, 2008)

stoneyheightsfarm said:


> Reason I'm asking, is that even w/the new mineral, my does hooves are still not what they should be, and a black doeling is already getting tinges of red. If I've got it calculated right, I could work on a chart that might make dosing a little easier...
> I actually made up a chart based on weights I could send it to you as an attachment if you like....it is broken down into 5 lb. increments from 25 lbs. to 300 lbs. I think. I did it in Word..simple chart. I'm a nervous nelly with copper, too many warnings about too much so I try to be precise on giving any extra stuff. Let me know!
> 
> (real question at end of first page)


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## Ashlee H (Aug 5, 2009)

Yes Vicki,

How much do you sell your allready made up boluses for? I sure would like to get some from you!!! I am horrible with math, and I can just imagin myself trying to figure all this out and and the amounts for each one and such!!! lol!!! 

You can PM me and talk about this if you would like!

Thanks!!!


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## mill-valley (Feb 22, 2008)

I bought the 000 size on Ebay...they fit 3 grams all the way full. Easy way to measure but I would prefer a larger capsule. I guess I still haven't quite got the hang of giving these things yet because they don't always go down right....I would LOVE to be able to give only one capsule to the bigger goats.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I am only on my second customer. I am going to eventually have prices, with shipping included, so I don't have to figure it out each time seperatly. I will let you know. Vicki


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## Ashlee H (Aug 5, 2009)

Vicki McGaugh Tx Nubians said:


> I am only on my second customer. I am going to eventually have prices, with shipping included, so I don't have to figure it out each time seperatly. I will let you know. Vicki


THANKS!!!!


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