# E-coli in kids??



## ozark_jewels (Oct 27, 2007)

I think I am having e-coli complications in my almost week old kids. What is the treatment, can anyone help?? I have two beautiful doelings who I think I am going to lose at any minute. It sort of seems like floppy kid, but doesn't react well to floppy kid treatment.
I have given both baking soda, biomyacin, Bose.......they both have full sloshy tummies(one almost bloated but still sloshy), one cannot stand and one barely. Neither showed any signs at noon. They are continually mouthing and chewing on anything in reach.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Biosol liquid is for ecoli got mine at TSC. it is Neomyocin(sp?)


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 27, 2007)

Yes, I just gave them that as well. But it doesn't seem like enough....... :help2


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

Pig pump is also for e coli.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

have a friend that swears by Quatracon2X says that she uses it anytime she suspects e-coli and hasn't lost a kid sence.
http://www.bi-vetmedica.com/product_sites/Quatracon2X/reference.html


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 27, 2007)

I am delivering kids so am too busy to reply often, but be sure that I am reading all the responses and appreciate them all.


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

Been there, done that.
Biosol won't touch it. Biosol is also of the gentamycin family and any overdose from lable will lead to renal failure. Standard operating procedure.....any kids that come down with it...start them immediately on Naxcel, SQ fluids, diarsanyl and banamine. You've got a 50/50 chance of survival.
The big give away in older kids...7-10 days, is they will drink lots of water, continuously, have wet chins from drool. They become listless and go down in short order. No, it's not the same as entro. They will sometimes have yellow watery diarrhea that turns to gray paste after about 24 hrs., sometimes not. Best bet is to have a necropsy and find out if your dealing with it. It's cheaper in the long run to find out if your do have E. Coli. If it is...you will loose a lot of kids, without treatment and vaccine.

If you even suspect E. Coli...1st order the vaccine Bar Guard 99. Give EVERY kid born, AT BIRTH, 5cc orally before they even get colostrum. I ordered the tubes for a couple of years and now use the injectable, but still give it orally at 5cc. I haven't lost a kid in two years, but I'm still not going to quit the vaccine for several more years. 
Kaye


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Kaye is that Bar Guard 99 over the counter stuff? Think that should be on our list of stuff to have on hand.


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## Patty13637 (Oct 26, 2007)

I think you need to get it at like Jeffers.

Patty


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## Patty13637 (Oct 26, 2007)

http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ssc...W06CW82&pf_id=16503&cmkw=bar AND guard AND 99


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Thanks Patty


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## Qvrfullmidwife (Oct 25, 2007)

Kaye--since this is a vaccine and the label states to discard unused portions after opening...do you do this? Or reuse the bottle?


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

With the single dose tubes...most are twins. 1/2 tube per kid. Then if I have triplets I will use 2 1/2 tubes and put the unused portion back in the refrig. With the injectable (given orally)....no, I do not discard the unused portion. I pull up what I need for that kidding and replace bottle in the refrig. At the end of kidding season I will discard the unused portion and re-order another 50ml bottle. It's too expensive and everyone that uses it, uses it the same way.

As far as having on hand....unless you are diagnosed with E. Coli, It's not really something you need on hand. IF you don't give it at birth, it's too late to give once they have it. It needs to be in the system before they are exposed to it. Not like C/D antitoxin or tetanus antitoxin.
Kaye


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

kaye have you ever used Quatracon2X as it is for pasturella and ecoli and something else 
http://www.bi-vetmedica.com/product_sites/Quatracon2X/reference.html


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 27, 2007)

I'm sorry for the delayed update. You can just not imagine how crazy its been here.
The doelings died almost right after I last posted. I say died, but I put them down. They were in much pain and obviously dying. The worst part about this is that in the rush of everything happening last night, I completely forgot about refrigerating one of the bodies for a proper necropsy to be done. By the time I thought of it, they had been laying in a box on the back porch by the hot wood stove all night. A little late for remembering something that important. I believe my lack of sleep is telling.
I don't know if it was e-coli or not......it doesn't fit what I know of e-coli from when my sister had it run through her kids(she ended up using the vaccine that you use, Kaye). It was so extremely fast. They ate breakfast just fine, ate lunch as well. By supper time(about 6:00 pm), they were as described in my first post. They rapidly went downhill and by the time I put them down(about 8:00 pm I think), they were flat out, no reflex when I touched their eye and moaning with every breath.
But since I didn't manage to get a necropsy done, I will be picking up the vaccine as soon as the vet opens(are vets open on presidents day??), and giving it to all my doelings and keeper bucklings. I'll be letting the wethers go without as an experiment to see if it was likely e-coli. I know one vet carries the tubes as that is what my sister used years ago.
I've had a set of twins and a set of triplets out of my doeling pen born since last night. At this point I am just keeping all the kids separated. There were 6 doelings of similiar age in the pen with the two dead doelings, three in the bathroom, and I'm keeping the new ones separated in the kitchen. No other kids show any symptoms and boy am I ever watching close.
This was heartbreaking. Last night was one of those nights that make me reconsider even keeping anything with a heartbeat that can stop. It just hurts so bad to lose them. I don't hurt when my plants die! The two doelings were of course out of the most looked forward to breeding of the year, and the only doe I had bred to that buck.
Thanks so much to everyone and especially to Kaye and Susie. Susie, I'm sorry about losing the doeling you wanted.......


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2008)

:down :down :down


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2008)

Oh, Emily....my heart breaks for you :sniffle... How fast and scary... hopefully it will just be something isolated to that one breeding. (remember me telling you about the one kid I lost last year? Big, nice, healthy KEEPER buck- He was nine weeks old..just fine that morning, down and dying, then dead hours later. I assumed entro and gave him antitoxin & such, to no avail. The very next morning I get an email.. his brother (who I had sold almost seven weeks earlier to a lady several hours west of me) He too had DIED, exactly the same way.. same day.. less then two hours after I lost mine.. it was like they had an expiration date or something! Again so sorry for your loss. Will keep you in my prayers & thoughts.
susie


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## Chaty (Oct 25, 2007)

:down Sorry for you loss, I have used BarGuar 99 with Great success...its worth its price and I use it for my calves also. I did it lst year with the calves and will do it with them again this year and with the goats. Sorry again...


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

> The concentrated serum of Quatracon-2Xô is prepared from the blood of cattle


No. I wouldn't even consider using the Quatracon, mainly because it is made from serum of cattle. I don't use ANYTHING made from any type of serum or blood of cattle, sheep, or goats.
I prefer to take my chances with equine based vaccines because horses don't carry OPP, CAE, CL, blackleg, lepto, ect...

I know lots of people use the Polyserum...but, I just have a real problem with it. I rather use a cultured vaccine rather than made from serum.
Kaye


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Thanks Kaye that is what I wanted to know and is the reason I have never used it. Tho a friend in CA and her vet use it prior to any pneumonia vaccine.


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