# disbudding emergency!!



## andiplus5 (Feb 14, 2008)

I disbudded 6 kids yesterday. It was my first time and all are doing well. Except one. Her little horn buds are oozing thick pus and she is listless. She didn't even make a noise when I took her from her mom and into the house. Usually when I pick up any of them and walk to the house they call to momma the whole way, including this one. My question is what should I do? How do I know if she's really even sick or infected? Thanks in advance,
Andi in OK


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Obviously something has gone wrong. I would take something to the head, veggy brush etc, and scrub the head well. Redisbud, make sure it is super hot, and then spray with fural. What did you spray the heads with afterwards? I woud also put her on an antibiotic and use banamine for the pain. One year my husband grabbed a spray container for screw worms and sprayed the heads, we had this happen in a group of sold kids. I scrubbed the heads, redisbudded, sprayed with fural, gave everyone some naxcel and banamine for the pain. They were over it in about 24 hours so they only got 3 injections. Vicki


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## Halo-M Nubians (Oct 26, 2007)

I would also check her temp. I'm trying to envision where the pus would be coming from as everything should be cauterized.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

To deep of burn will bring actual fluid surronding the brain to the surface and makes the head weep. Cauterising it will stop it.

Antibiotics because her fever will spike...then if she has neurological sypmtoms you add dexamethazone for the brain welling.

Without excellent nursing...tubing, subq fluids, antiobiotics, steroids, a young kid can't live through this menengitis.

We will just hope she sprayed something crazy like we did on the hornbuds which made them soften and weep. Vicki


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## andiplus5 (Feb 14, 2008)

Thanks everyone. I called the vet who was busy. He is always swamped on mondays. But I took my baby down to the feed store because the owner has goats too. (i bought my buck from him) Anyway several goat farmers were in there at the time and between 4 or 5 of us we got her taken care of. She got some stuff put on the wound and something for the fever and now she is out with mom running around and eating. It's amazing...they can go from looking like they're dead one minute to prancing around the next! Anyway, I'm keeping an eye on her and I may bring her in for the night. If she gets worse I was told by the vet's receptionist to bring her in tomorrow. I just have to call in the morning and let them know if I'm bringing her or not. Thanks for the advice....I guess there is no way to learn but by experience!
Andi


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## SherrieC (Oct 26, 2007)

thank goodness you had some experienced help around. : ) thats great. 
Sherrie


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## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

Did you make sure you gave her a tetanus antitoxin shot? Definitely want to do that. Glad she is feeling better.


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2008)

I was holding my breath when reading this topic. So glad she is doing better. I think I can breathe again now.  

-Kim


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## andiplus5 (Feb 14, 2008)

I did forget to mention that this was all done in a nice and orderly fashion. The babies were brought to the house and had their little heads shaved while on the porch, then on to the kitchen where they got their CD/T shots. Then they got the dreaded disbudding iron. Then they went to mom to get a consolation feeding! So yes, she had her shot first, then the disbudding. 
Thanks everybody!
Andi
PS--the boys were supposed to get banded too, but dh opened the package and took out the banding tool, put the band on it and opened it up, the stupid thing broke!! brand new!! it was their lucky day! now they won't get banded until its time for shot #2 of the CD/T.


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## Qvrfullmidwife (Oct 25, 2007)

I believe that it is the tetanus ANTITOXIN that you want to give before disbudding, not a toxoid...


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## Chaty (Oct 25, 2007)

Yep I use the Tetanus antitoxin before disbudding the CD/T takes 3 weeks to work. She will need the antitoxin for instant protection.


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## steffb (Oct 26, 2007)

I am soooo glad I leave my horns on.


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## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

Chaty said:


> Yep I use the Tetanus antitoxin before disbudding the CD/T takes 3 weeks to work. She will need the antitoxin for instant protection.


DITTO.. This is very important any time you do something like disbudding, tattooing, castration. Especially in the one that is having the oozing. Just run up to the feed store and get a little bottle of Tetanus Antitoxin and give at least 1.5cc shot IM to it. This is a perfect scenario for Tetanus to set up.


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## andiplus5 (Feb 14, 2008)

Oh, that's great! :really I'm glad I have you guys for advice. 
I'm never disbudding again. Seriously! I'm leaving all the horns on everything else out there. Why does having goats have to be so hard all the dang time??? :bang
Andi


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## stacy adams (Oct 29, 2007)

Oh, come on now.. it's not _that_ hard _all _the time ! :crazy As for disbudding, practice makes perfect. Don't let this one instance get you down! :nooo 
The one goat I left horns on, a young wether, when he got older (and not quite a year) started using them on the does that wouldn't let him near the feeder. I could just see a torn udder, and that vision made it easy for me to load him up and haul him to the packers. I will gladly burn little heads! :rofl


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## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

That's so true. The benefits of those clean heads outweigh the disbudding event itself. One of my dairy does one time ran through an open gate that our son left open across the dairy barn and out into the boer goat pen where she promptly was jugged in the back of the udder by the queen Boer. Ripped a triangle tear about the size of a 50 cent piece out of the back of her udder in about half a second. I hate horns. When I get ready to disbud some kids I pull up my tetanus antitoxin in a syringe however many kids I am going to do I have a separate syringe for each kid. Stick them down in a baggie with an ice pack. As I bring the kids in to be disbudded I shave their little heads, pop them with the tetanus antitoxin shot and then disbud. It's easy... no biggie. And it isn't too late to give this little one a shot, but I would do it today. Hang in there. You're a great goat mama.


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## Qvrfullmidwife (Oct 25, 2007)

"I'm leaving all the horns on everything else out there"

Disbudding gets easier and better each time.

The pain and trauma is far shorter lived for a goat (AND for you) than getting caught in a fence and strangling or having your head ripped off by a dog as happened to a valuable buck of ours when he got caught by his scurs in the cattlepanel


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

yep leaving horns on is just a disaster waiting to happen I have one with horns a buck and on accident he has hit me near my eyes twice. NOT a good thing.


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## andiplus5 (Feb 14, 2008)

Well, then maybe I'll just band them all! I have to do that to the ones I bought that have horns anyway. That looks much easier and less painful for me and the goat!! :biggrin
Andi


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## Halo-M Nubians (Oct 26, 2007)

Banding is a lot more drawn out for the goat-disbudding seems horrible but it is over quickly. One second they act like your killing them, then their running around playing!

Just as an aside, I don't do anti-toxin when I disbud. My mentor who taught me years ago didn't and I've never had a problem of any kind. You probably don't need to worry about the other kids. Of course if something weird like oozing started I'd probably run get some-I've only done about 30 kids so I'm probably technically still an amateur!


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## stacy adams (Oct 29, 2007)

Banding horns may be less painful for the person putting it on, but it *IS* painful and stressful for the goat who's horns are being banded. Imagine putting one of those things on your finger, until your finger fell off. :eek
Sometimes we as caretakers, have to do things that are unpleasant, like disbudding or dehorning for the sake of others, like tending a sick kid that doesn't survive, or a favorite adult, for that matter. We do it because we love them and it needs to be done. 
You are so close! don't let this one incident keep you from continuing your good management! Learn from your mistakes and move on.. and better yet, learn from the mistakes of others, we're all out there, willing to share our idiocies and _hoping_ that someone learns from it..


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

You will be very unhappy with horned goats.
They abuse each other more and they get their heads stuck in the fences and feeders and they are dangerous for children to be around and when you bend over in the crowd of goats if you don't know where everyone is you can loose an important body part!

I hated disbudding as well until I learned to sedate them for it. You can tattoo more accurately and band the baby boys correctly with just one person.
It makes it so much less stressful and you can do a perfect job quickly without them jerking around and screaming. There was an article in Dairy Goat Journal all about it and boy has it taken the stress out of it for me. 

I ruined a whole years worth of doelings trying to band instead of disbud- they were head shy for 6 months and some of them never got over it and had scurs and lots of mishaps.
Disbudding pays off every day. 

Lee


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Yea, this little buck I have with horns, rotton thing used them on my behind when he wanted my attention! My grandpa's little buck someone gave him, a boer, kept getting stuck in the cattle panels all the time. He cut his horns off with some kind of nippers!


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

OK Lee, tell us about your sedation for disbudding, tattooing and disbanding (dang can we sedate them until they are weaned !!!! It will be a nice article for goatkeeping 101. Vicki


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## Kalne (Oct 25, 2007)

Yes....I'd like to know about the sedation too.


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## Nancy (Oct 25, 2007)

We banded one that had one horn when we got her. I would rather disbud. Sedation until weaned sounds really good about now.


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## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

The more south you go, the more of a problem worms, tetanus and cocci are.


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## andiplus5 (Feb 14, 2008)

I wish!! Sedation until weaning! :woohoo Seriously, I would like to know more.
Andi


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Ok - I will write something up since I have been unable to find my copy of the article to scan for you. Happy to share this- it has taken all the pain and misery out of it.
I will post as new topic when I get it put together
Lee


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## Qvrfullmidwife (Oct 25, 2007)

AND BANDING DOESNT ALWAYS WORK! 

And by the time you can try it you have already exposed the goat and people to the risks of horns.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

The drug that Lee uses is to dangerous to post on open forum for new people. If you want to contact Lee personally and ask further questions, please do so on PM or email. We have talked about this at length on the moderator board, and agree the dosage and drug is dangerous, as is the aftercare, so we can't endorse it on the board.

First and foremost we must do no harm. Disbudding is simple.

We would like to read the article in Dairy Goat Journal if anyone has it to forward privately. Vicki


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## andiplus5 (Feb 14, 2008)

Well, if it's dangerous I don't need to get my hands on it...I'm dangerous enough to my goats through ignorance! :rofl :rofl
Andi


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2008)

Excellent decision Andi! I think it is a terrible method and completely unnecessary. Disbudding is a very simple procedure.

Sara


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Maybe we could just give them a bunch of whiskey?


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