# Bottle Jaw



## Guest (Jul 28, 2008)

I know a serious case of worms can cause bottle jaw, but are there any other things that will cause this?

One of my test goats has developed this, but I have hit her hard with two different wormers now and it is still showing. Her eye lids are white, which I know is bad.


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## sunnygrl_ks (Oct 30, 2007)

i don't have the depth of knowledge that everyone else has, so I know they will chime in, but i need to ask what wormers you used and what doses you did, you might have used ones that are not effective and might not have used enough to be effective.


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

Usually it's worms that cause bottlejaw. I did have one doe that got it in spite if being extensively wormed, but she also had a tumor on her face that a vet said was probably cancer. I would suppose a serious illnes such as that could also cause bottlejaw or perhaps it's that an already compromised goat has a harder time with worm resistance. Kathie


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Bottle jaw is a symptom of anemia, nothing else. Now the anemia could be from worms or cocci. Worming will kill the adult worms that are causing the bottlejaw but only time will repair the liver and build the blood supply back up to where the bottle jaw subsides.

Copper bolusing your herd will help, as will moving to a better mineral. Make sure you are worming correclty of course and it's about $10 to have a fecal ran to check for what worms and if they have cocci in enough numbers to warrant using a cocci med.

When new I alwasy recommend folks using medicated goat pellets for thier new boers. In Splendora you can pick up the rumensin pellets Producers Coop makes, just make sure you feed enough per pound per day. At least until fall. Don't think about breeding until you get this under control. Vicki


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2008)

Can I gather the berries and take them up to your vet? I don't imagine I need an appt or anything?? 

I will be up your way Friday getting more metal for the barn since it grew 10x40, so I could drop them off with her.


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## rg1950 (Feb 9, 2008)

Living this close to Houston is hard for boer goat owners. Boer goats are so suseptable to disease and if they get a bad case of bottle jaw as a baby, they (in our experience) grow slower than their co-goaters. We give cydectin in 10 day intervals every 10 days for a month, following each dose with probios and 30CC of NRG twice a day (I will get the exact name, but can be purchased at the vet for helping combat anemia and weakness). Make sure the goat is eating and drinking. If not, you may have to stomach tube or drench electrolytes. We started this business and was worming with safeguard, and feeding medicated feed (no one ever told us and we didn't know about cocci). We later found out none of it worked and lost 18 babies (all boers) that year. The goats that did live ended up with stunted growth, but we learned the hard way. Make sure to treat preventively for cocci, and stomach worms in this area. Liver Flukes are starting to be a problem also. Learn from other people's mistakes and lack of knowledge (Wish we could have, but now we want others to learn from ours). 

Tara


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Always call, Merry does farm calls in the mornings most days during the week, and is closed Mondays and Sundays. 936-653-2759 V


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## Guest (Jul 29, 2008)

This is a Boer cross and is an adult. Eats like a horse, just having a hard time with the bottle jaw all of the sudden. She is browsing / grazing on about 15 acres so you would think with that much space and only five goats she wouldn't have a worm problem. I will call the vet and get her tested, so we know what we are dealing with. 

I know it sounds mean, but these five goats are our test herd. We spent very little on them and we are trying to learn from them. We will sell all of them before years end so we have no goats for 4 months on the property before getting our new ones. In addition, the new ones will be run in a browse only pen for a while. As in the pen has virtually no grass, but lots of browse so this should help them adjust.

When I get her tested if she does come up positive for cocci I will put her down since I don’t want it to spread to the others. I will also have them tested just to be sure they are still safe. I like having the test goats, but I don’t want them to affect the goats I plan to buy next year.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

You don't have to do that, just treat her and if she has cocci or worms than the whole lot does. It's not about that your pens are saturated, you brought this with you from the sellers farm. If you bought goats from me the girls although their worm budens are low here, from moving it stresses them out, and yep you will have goats with higher worm burdens it's not about buying wormy goats, all goats have worms. The mama worms know because the adrenilin and other hormones for fright and kidding go through the system. It signals her to suck more blood, to lay more eggs and to move her babies from arrested development (where they are asleep in your goat and not touched by wormers) to active adults. Numbers on fecal can go into the 1000's overnight when you move goats or have them have kids.

Why when you get goats you quaranteen them into a small area, worm them, keep them in the small area for at least 12 hours, overnight is best, so all those eggs, larve who jump ship, and adults who are killed go into soil that the new goats or your old goats aren't going to just pick back up by eating the grass or on their feet and stepping in the feeders.

Cocci is simply opportunistic...when a goat has worms that are high in numbers or the stress factor once again, it signals the cocci to move from unharmful lifecycles into the harmful ones to suck blood, scar the intestine and eventually kill your goat.

As much as you will learn about goats over the years, you will learn more about cocci and worms because of where you live. Vicki


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## sunnygrl_ks (Oct 30, 2007)

nitrors4 said:


> I know it sounds mean, but these five goats are our test herd. We spent very little on them and we are trying to learn from them. We will sell all of them before years end so we have no goats for 4 months on the property before getting our new ones.
> 
> When I get her tested if she does come up positive for cocci I will put her down since I don't want it to spread to the others. I will also have them tested just to be sure they are still safe. I like having the test goats, but I don't want them to affect the goats I plan to buy next year.


ok... it does seem mean in a way... while the goats i have now i have spent relatively no money on, i too am using them to learn about goat care. I don't know anything about your goat ownership history, but the fact that you have a "test herd" makes me think you are new to goats.... I am new too... I have had my "test herd" now for 2 1/2 years and I can safely say that I have not encountered enough problems ( everyone has been relatively healthy) to say that I can sell all the goats I have and encounter no problems with the new ones simply because I've seen it all. New goats equal new problems, while some may be a problem you have encountered before a lot of the time it is something new. Just like people... people have babies every day... in one family you can have 4 kids and one can come down with some disease... while the rest of the family is perfectly healthy.

oh... well ... i've been typing and working so my post is almost unnecessary since it took me so long to get it finished.... i deleted some of my post as it seems vicki has answered before me...


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## Guest (Jul 29, 2008)

Don't get me wrong my wife says I am a big softy, but I want to ensure that I don't bring something nasty onto my property that will cause me issues. The needs of the many our way the needs of the few. Anyone know that line? HEHE Might be letting a little geek show. :rofl

I will take my berries to the vet and see what she thinks. Then we will know what we are dealing with and can make a educated decision.


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2008)

Well I panicked for no reason. Bottle Jaw is all gone and a little pink has returned to her eye lids. I will worm her again in 10 days to ensure she has a healthy recovery. 

She has been eating her minerals like a good girl as well. :biggrin


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