# need weight, dull dry coat



## winestonefarm (Oct 6, 2008)

what am i looking for?? i am feeding alfalfa, dairy goat pellet with alfalfa pellet, can't seem to get weight on this doe. now her coat looks like crap too. help. thanks, jodi


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Is she in milk? If so how long?

Fecal? 

Wormed? With what?


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

Try adding some BOSS to her diet.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Take the alfalfa pellets out of your dairy goat pellet, feed it seperatly in the barn like you do the alfalfa hay. If she is coming out of kidding season and is now in milk and to thin, did you feed her enough during the dry period? If you try to fix it now you can founder her, bloat her or cause acidosis by feeding more grain to quickly. IF she is a good milker she may simply need more calories in the form of grain. Shave off the offending winter coat, fecal her, think about copper bolusing, move to a better loose mineral, get all other forums of sodium out of your barn. Vicki


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## Madfarmer (Nov 18, 2008)

I have the same problem. LaMancha doe was poor when I got her. Managed to get her wormed & fed up some, but only had her about a month before she kidded. Now she's milking right at a gallon/day, and seems to be at the limit of grain she cares to eat. She's about lost all the weight I could get on her pre-kidding, though her coat looks much better. Gonna try slipping her a little corn oil gradually, & some boss if I can find some that isn't buggy.

Tom


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## goatmom (Oct 26, 2007)

Tom - I had the same issue last year with the BOSS -most of it went to the birds and none of the goats had any for months. I started using it again at freshening this year and had forgotten what a difference it makes in their coats in a short period of time. Bad thing is you can't open a bag before you buy and check!!


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## winestonefarm (Oct 6, 2008)

she kidded jan 30, no fecal but wormed with ivomec plus right before kidding, recently with ivermectin gold.


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## Theresa (Oct 26, 2007)

You shoud consider worming her with Cydectin or Quest. It gets worms that Ivermec does not.
Theresa


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## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

Check her for lice.


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## Guest (May 5, 2009)

Jodi,

What you need to look at is the amount of the Carbs that you are feeding your animal. Since, Carbs have twice the amount of energy than anything else that you can push into the rumen. Yes, you can up the grain, but, make sure it has the amount of carbs that you are needing in the diet. Most of the time corn is the best grain that you can feed an animal to get weight onto them. Corn is a high energy feed that you can get at any feed store. You will need a fine ground corn (corn chops) really to get the best bang for your buck. Since, whole corn is only about 85-89% digestable energy, where a fine ground corn (3500 mircon) will be about 94-96% digestable energy. Thus, for just a little more you are getting more energy out of the grain. But, then Vicki was correct that you might get a acid rumen, and founder. But, you will need to start at a little amount and increase it over a few weeks. While, really founder is not that big of an issue since, you are feeding an amount of alfalfa hay with your diet, the corn is going to be sitting up on top of the rumen mat, and sit in the rumen for awhile. Also, if they doe is in Negitive energy at this point, the energy will be used for maintance of the animal. Instead of causing founder. Founder only will happen if you are feeding to much of a high energy diet when they are not needing the energy to maintain the body. But, really all founder is, is swelling of the blood vessels in the feet between in the hoof wall and the sole. So, if you would happen to founder her is really not that big of deal...also, if you are worried about founder then just feed Zin-pro.

I would not recommend Corn oil in the diet as a source of energy...since, really it has been so processed in the cooking stage that the energy is really not there. Corn oil is Fat. With using a processed grain in the ration they are getting about 3% fat in the grain. That is more than enough for them to maintain the body, and lacation. People will go on about adding fat to the diet since, with Humans, yes, it will add the pounds on the body. But, we are dealing with rumens. All fat does in the rumen is sit there and passes to the lower digestive tract and will really cause problems with the intestines. Since, it will slow the digestion of the by-pass protiens down or just expell them from the body. Also, with anything to much fat in the diet might cause heart and blood problems if they are comsumed at a high level for long peroids of time. From the reason that the digestive tracts of any animal is not made to digest large amounts of fat in the diet.

With, the rough hair coat, you might be dealing with a lack of mirco-minerals. Since, these are often over looked by people. They just on a mineral band wagon and ride though town on it. But, really the mirco-minerals (Zinc, Copper, Selenuim, Mangesium, Potassium, Cobalt...etc) are more important than the macro-minerals (Soduim, Calcium, Phosphate's). While, Vicki's states that you should have just only one type of soduim out that is really not right. Since, there are many types of Soduim, out there, since they used by the body in different ways. Stock Salt is the highest form of of Soduim...meaning that is has the highest level of PURE Na. While, say Soduim Bicarbonate, have a lower level of Na. But, The Bicarbonate added to the Soduim will cause a buffer affect when combined with acid. While just Na will not cause the buffering effect.

Ken


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## catdance62 (Mar 2, 2009)

I had the same problem with my does last year, but this year I got a much better quality mineral, added more BOSS to their ration, and am giving alfalfa pellets as well and the girls all look much better including the does that got so skinny last year.


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

we add extra fats (oils) to insulin resistant horses diets to slow the release of insulin into the blood stream. It works very well. Might not be the affect we want for dairy animals. Seeds, such as sunflower, etc. might be a better choice than oils.


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

I've found that kelp will give them a nice shiny coat and great hoofs.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

But, really all founder is, is swelling of the blood vessels in the feet between in the hoof wall and the sole. So, if you would happen to founder her is really not that big of deal...also, if you are worried about founder then just feed Zin-pro.
................................................

I am not sure you have ever foundered your best doe, her show career is over, as is her quality of life. Hoof trimming becomes a nitemare, a huge maintenence issue. There are some pretty sad stories out there about foundered does....

Excellent post, but do increase your grain rations slowly. Vicki


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## Jennie (May 7, 2008)

I'm just wondering why would a does show career would be over? 
Reason being is that I have a doe who has foundered and I intend on showing her this fall.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Most does who founder will only stand on their front feet when made to, or with pain killers. Their knees start to spread from the weight of walking on them. Their feet grow long and uneven, and even belt sanding them down, they hurt to walk on. Your doe must have a very mild case for her to be able to be shown without a judge questioning her gait. Vicki


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## Jennie (May 7, 2008)

I don't know if it was a mild case. She has one toe on each of her front feet that needs more trimming than the rest of the girls. They are bigger and boy are they hard to trim. I think I may barrow my dads hoof nippers or even his metal grinder the next time I trim. Does it affect her gait, not at all. In fact Bret at appraisals last year thought she had a very fancy gait, I believe he called her a Lipizzaner. And then she went on to score a 91 EEEE.
I know that when dealing with horses that the first time foundering is not always a death sentence. Now founder them again and again and you have a horse who can't walk and eventually needs put down.


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## Guest (May 7, 2009)

Vicki,

I dont think that their lives are over if they are Foundered since, I am milking about 6 to 8 foundered does right now. Most are not making the milk as the others but, they are on a limited amount of grain also. They are milking in the 10 pound range...one up to 16.5 pounds with the low one at 7.5 pounds...now mind you that is just out of one side since, she is a 1 teater.

Yes, I will say for a little while feet trimming is a little harder than most. But, once they are foundered they are more likely to get foundered again. So, you will have to watch for that. Also, founder will run in family lines as well. But, the thing that founders most animals is that their feet are not kept trimmed most of the time. I trim milkers atleast everyother month, with the higher milkers getting trimmed every month. 

The key with founder is know the signs early and not founder go to the feet. Watch for arched backs, pink feet...where it should be white. But, the biggest thing is, get them use to high energy grains early in life. The kids are fed a high corn diet from 4 weeks on. Before that they are on 100% calf manna, then changed to calf starter then to calf grower...all the starters and growers have high corn in the mix. Thus, when they are milkers they are use to the higher energy diet that they will have in the milk line. So, really my animals never get off a high energy diet at all in their life, just the amount they are fed.

Ken


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