# affection or aggression



## Dorit (Apr 20, 2011)

This Am I followed my usual routine, same time as always, I rake before milking and my one milking doe comes up to me and rubs her head on me, so I stop and scratch her under her chin. When I stop she backs up and rears up on her hind legs. Dont know if she wants a hug or to butt my head. I turned my back to her and kept raking, and I felt two hooves on my shoulders. What should I do, this is the first time this has happened, I did not do anything, waiting for your guidance. I keep trying to remember that they are livestock and not pets, but gosh I"ve grown to love this goat and want to treat her like my child, so please keep me doing the right thing.


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## Horsehair Braider (Mar 11, 2011)

That's how goats play with each other for dominance. You don't want to get involved in goat games for dominance; they will win every time. 

I never touch my goats on the top of the head, because it can remind them of this sort of thing. Instead I pet them on the neck, under the chin, on their back and sides. There is plenty of area on a goat to pet, instead of the top of the head. If a goat comes up to me and even so much as touches me with the top of its head, I very calmly and serenely reach down and wring their ear. They do not like this, so they learn not to butt. I don't allow them to scratch or rub on me either. I am not a post or a wall. I'm a living creature. They need to show me respect.

Goats are quite charming and it's very easy to become attached to them, but they still need to respect you, even if they *are* pets.


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## Goat Town (Nov 20, 2010)

Jacquee is right you don't want to become involved in their games. Remember they have four feet and have a more stable platform than you do on your two legs. They can easily knock you over and hurt you. The last mature buck I owned weighed over three hundred pounds and he knocked me down a couple of times rushing for a feed bucket.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Perhaps she's in heat?


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

When a goat rears up at me, I throw my hands in the air. They see that I am bigger/taller and they back off. It works even with my big Nubian Billy who can get aggressive some times. I guess the trick might now work as well if you are very short. I'm 5'7".

But if she put her feet on you from behind that does suggest heat to me. Either way though they usually don't try to ride a larger doe cause they get butted, so try the arms up trick.

I also don't let them rub their heads on me. Especially with minis, therir heads are right by my knees. It makes me nervous. I have one that likes to lean into me, and she's cut from my group. I'm only keeping mannerly goats.


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## Dorit (Apr 20, 2011)

Boy! Am I glad I asked. I've been scratching their heads for 3 months. I'm glad that my 2 are slow learners. I'm 5'3" I'll try the arms, but they are both taller than me, I can do the ear twist and not reinforce rubbing up on me. Thanks for the help.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Of course you can scratch their heads. Normally you grow out kids to live with your personality, kids who don't conform are most of the time sold. By the time a doe is 8 months old or so, she should have pretty good manners, and kids who do jump up, are met with me walking into them so they crash down over themselves, I don't have to hit at them or anything. The usually get a "have you lost you mind" and I scream NO at them...or like their mom would do, bite the crap out of their neck, so I pinch them. Far enough away from their head that they do not get head shy. 


Most of my does start milking at about 15 months old, so a milker that thought she was going to jump up on he would get a much more agressive response and would get clipped to the fence until I was done with chores.

My bucks or my does are simply not allowed to be agressive, by raising my bucklings with a very firm hand and clipping them so I am not challenging them ever that first year until they are out of rut, when I go in their pen, I have very well mannered bucks who even my grandboys (6, 7 and 9) can deal with.

It's harder when they are purchased animals, you do have to work with them on this type of behavior. Either because the behavior was OK at their old farm, or they were not socialized to even know that this kind of behavior was not OK. Same with dogs, same with children  Vicki


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Something I learned training dogs also works with younger goats.
When they jump up or even rear up grab their legs and make them stay on their hind feet until they are uncomfortable. Just stand still holding them up in the air. They do not like it and often it only takes doing that one time to break the habit. Make them struggle a bit and then give in and stand still again before letting them down. It works quickly!
Lee


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

We just don't play with goats around here. Linds being in the wheelchair is why. We love on them, we clip them to fences or just up and leave their company. They do not like the last one at all. I am with Vicki on the training part. We handle our kids all the time. Many of them learn right from the get go you don't hop up into Lindsey's lap. Big Mom isn't nice at all to them Linds will bonk them where she can but it is just a bonk. Most of the time though verbal ques are all that is necessary. We do talk to them alot during discipline training and have a very nice group now. Our newest doeling, Ameila, has been trained already by her breeders to have manners so we didn't have much trouble with her at all. My new doe I got for mt B-day has learned that Big Mom gets really grumpy and then shuns her attention when she is ornery to Linds. It drives her crazy when Big Mom doesn't give her loves and tells her she's a "bad goatie!" It only took two times of that and now she is much nicer to Linds, though she is still jealous of her being higher in status than herself 
I raise bucklings with a lot of love and patience, clipping to fences too, but lots of loves. I also walk into them, throws them off balance and they learn quickly. Tallis is a big big baby, not that I don't watch him, but he goes to where I point and does what I say, He's a sweet buck!
Tam


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## Dorit (Apr 20, 2011)

Thanks all, I will follow your advice.


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## Dorit (Apr 20, 2011)

I am lucky that both my first goats came from good homes. I sense a thread here, first the dog (the Belgian Malenoise, the dog from hell) and now my goat wants to walk all over me. Its a wonder my kids turned out as well as they did. I am seriously considering not adding to my heard of two. Its becoming clear to me that it is very hard for me to enforce discipline. (just an old hippy that never grew up, LOL)


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

I used to have a hard time with being in charge too, but after three children, I got over it. LOL Sometimes I think I would have had an easier time raising children if I had had goats first!


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## lonestrchic23 (Jan 7, 2011)

I'm a big dog person... I've always had Danes, Mastiffs ect. ect. I treat my goats the same way I treated my big dogs. With my kids, they were not allowed to jump up on me (cute as tiny babies, awful from an older goat), I did not play goat games or allow them to head butt me..... I made sure my children followed the rules & didn't push on their heads to encourage those games. 

I practiced walking them on leads, giving them good treats for good behavior & didn't force them into scary situations. Now I have two stinky, big bucks who I can easily handle, who don't challenge me & I can walk them all the way to the girls pen for breeding & right back out again with no issues.

My adult animals I've purchased have been decent overall....One was an awful biter when she came, so I'd pop her on the nose & yell "No" & cease to pet or interact with her. Didn't take her long to figure out that was not acceptable & she hasn't bit anyone in over a year now... Be firm & consistent and you'll be able to break the undesirable behavior.


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