# Problem with teat cistern. (Photos Added)



## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

The FF that just had kidded on Tuesday has not turned out so well. I am having a problem milking from the left side. Her rear udder attachments stink! Her udder hangs and (excuse me for saying this) actually hangs like a bag. I have to hold up the left half and milk or hardly any milk comes out. Is the cistern getting pinched because of no rear attachments? Right side is a dream to milk. Need ideas until its time to butcher. Tammy

Here is the left side; can't really see as where anything is wrong other than when she is full, has a crease at rear of teat









Right side; teats do point to legs









And rear shot; she is not full but wanted daylight so DH could help.









When she is full her udder hangs and is seen from the side, never from the rear. Today is day three after kidding.


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

*Re: Problem with teat cistern.*

udder bra?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Problem with teat cistern.*

Bummer....and cistern was the darn word I was trying to come up with on the doe without the orifice open...is her cistern intact 

I have had some horrid udders before, but none, well other than teats touching the rear legs, attached on the outside of the udder, that you couldn't milk, even if it was with difficulty. Got a photo? Vicki


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

*Re: Problem with teat cistern.*

Vicki I'll get a photo this evening before I milk. Not bad teats just a bad rear udder, of which I spoke with the breeder and both dam and sires dam had good rear udders. I know her rear attachments are not good compared to Mercedes or even any other nubian I've seen. Breeder thinks its just one of those fluke things. We think the udder is creating more of a push on that side since there is more milk in the right side. There are no lumps or reason otherwise :shrug

This was the replacement we got for the hermie we bought from her  Lindsey said she is very dissapointed). This is why we decided to breed for FF at yearling age and now we know we saved a years worth of feed. Tammy


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## Leo (Mar 10, 2008)

*Re: Problem with teat cistern.*

Sorry this doe turned out so strange. Ditto what Vicki said.

I've had does with no medial, and a shelf in the front. I could still milk her, however difficult. Her bag was almost round, except that shelf.  
Megan


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

*Re: Problem with teat cistern.*

I have had some with tiny cisterns or canals that are a real xxxxx to milk but not caused by a horrible udder just small around. This is why I love my milking machine.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

*Re: Problem with teat cistern.*

And we still need a tongue sticking out(to give raspberries) emocon! :derr will have to do Sondra


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

LOL....ok, Tammy multiply that udder about 5x's it's size and you have a 5yr old here. Though mine's udder attachment fore and rear is better :blush 
The problem is where the teats are sitting...foreward on the udder. This causes a pocket, so to speak, in the rear of the udder floor, where milk will pool. It's actually lower than the teat canal.
This is why teat placement is important. In a perfect world...they are back under the udder floor and point straight down. BUT....it's not a major problem in milking or this girl wouldn't be here after 5 yrs. She's milked over 3,200#'s in the last 3 yrs. and her BF is above 100#'s every year. Sooooo, for that, I will let her milk completely out with the machine, then lift up on the udder floor to get the remaining milk out. Which is usually a little more than a pint. When your girl comes to full milk it will be easier to milk her out...I promise.

I keep promising her a *boob lift job*, but just can't seem to find a plastic surgeon willing to work on a goat.? :really
Kaye


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Thanks for the info Kaye. I know there are other aspects to this doe that don't line up either. Right now decision is in the hands of Lindsey, who at this moment says "jerky". Tammy


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## SherrieC (Oct 26, 2007)

Wow, for a moment there I thought that was Mercedes, and boy did I feel bad! It's a shame specially since this is the replacement doe.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Even as nice as Mercedes is, if she comes into a dog udder she is still jerky worthy  It's the curse of your really nice juniors always, we have such high hopes for them, then they freshen and dash those hopes. We can hope for Lindseys sake she amazes us! 

At least Mercedes has a place for a rear udder to go!! Vicki


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

> She's milked over 3,200#'s in the last 3 yrs


Since I can't seem to find the modify post button :really...The above SHOULD have read 3,200#'s each year. A 1,000# milker regardless of udder...would be jerky!
Kaye


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Well if I posted a pick of Mercedes udder, ESPECIALLY TEATS, you would feel like we do about Lette. Maybe I will just for Vicki :biggrin


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## Bella Star (Oct 27, 2007)

Well just call me stupid .... but what's so wrong with this does udder ? She really looks like she will produce a lot of milk as she ages with her deep udder :shrug2 . Her teat placement is not so good but heck, she is a FF also. Have I missed something ? Whats jerky ? :/


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Linda this doe is not an easy milker, quite the opposite. One side milks like a dream and the other has to be held up and pushed back to get milk out of it. You can't see it from the pictures other than her teats are to far forward and angle to the legs. I do not own a milk machine, I milk by hand. Last night it took 15 minutes just to milk the left side. The right side only took 5-7 mins. It will be more severe when she starts producing milk. The young lady who Lindsey is doing Loan a Goat with hasn't milked her yet and I highly doubt she will be able to even at fair time. Also I would like to go camping this summer so I want who ever watchs the goats to be able to care and milk them appropriately. Not something someone else should have to fight. Jerky is dried seasoned meat. What doesn't sell goes to the butcher block and gets turned into goatburger. Since I'm all about preserving and having back-up the burger will be turned into jerky. Tammy


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## haeema (Jan 18, 2008)

Vicki McGaugh Tx Nubians said:


> Even as nice as Mercedes is, if she comes into a dog udder she is still jerky worthy


#1, What's a dog udder? #2, What's you're recipe?


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

#2, What's you're recipe?

Depends on what I want to put in it. Usually use beef base and whole lot of homegrown herbs. Press goatburger into strips, place in deep pan until full, pour brine over and marinate for 24 hours. Smoke until done.

I like teriyaki and smoked flavoring too.

I'll let Vicki answer the dog udder question.

Tammy


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Upon milking this doe this morning I inspected her left side really well.

Kaye, yes I see what you mean about the milk pooling. This explains why that teat is getting pinched. Ican see it when she is full. And I figured out to milk with my left hand---which means stretching across the right one--but is more comfortable for both doe and I. So I am going to train Loan a Goat girl to milk her this way. Right side first then Left side, wash her up again and THEN put Fight Bac on. I fear the stretching across will rub bacteria into the side that works right :/. Tammy


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## Qz Sioux (Feb 21, 2009)

Ok, I have a dumb question:

Is it possible to milk from the rear? My friend had a doe that would sit down everytime she went to milk her. She learned that if she milked from the rear the doe wouldn't even try to sit, kick or step in the bucket.

Just asking, not necessarily for the doe of this thread.

Suzie


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## Halo-M Nubians (Oct 26, 2007)

I milk from the back..definitely prefer it..I think a lot of folks do.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Slice meat thin, mix 1/3 liquid soap to 2/3rds soy sauce, marinate the meat slices in the fridge in the juice from 4 hours to overnight. Shake dry and put in your food dehydrator...yum yum!

A dog udder. UGLY. Usually no attachement to the fore so the instead of the udder tightly attached it buldges out and hangs down like a grapefruit in a mens atheltic sock  Vicki


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## LMonty (Oct 25, 2007)

I can see what you mean- looks like if she had a good attachment, she would have the teats in a much better position. 

Attachments are a genetic trait, right? So both her parents must be carrying a recessive gene for it, if they arent showing it. I dont buy the fluke thing, unless they mean that breeding two parents with an undesireable recessive trait, produces a fluke-yea, if its a single gene inheritance then that same breeding is going to pass on a double recessive with that trait about 25% of the time. (I dont know what rear attachments are, single or multiple gene expression) 

I gotta laugh at the plastic surgery idea- heck, it sounds like fun to try, I'd give it a go! My hand is itching for scalpel  But really, if shes got double recessive genes for that (my assumption, I'd have to look it up and see), she will pass them on to every offspring she has, so I wouldnt want her in my breeding program unless there was another really good reason for risking her offspring passing it on. Darn shame. So sorry Lindsey got disappointed. 

Question about tiny canals or cisterns- I have a doe that was a FF last year, who has a thin stream, Yep, sure takes longer to milk her out, a PIA if hand milking. She's due March 22 or so. Does that trait ever improve in FF's? Or is it fixed and she will always milk that way? Is it common for her daughters to have that trait too? I have a local breeder coming to look at the animals this weekend, and in the interest of full disclosure I will mention that. She was possibly interested in the doe and since she isnt the bloodlines I want to concentrate on, I may let her go after she kids and when I have enough milk without her. But she's the only doe I definitely have bred for this spring to my yearling buck Pruittvilles Moon River, so I definitely am not letting her go until she kids. 

Slow flow isnt a problem for me since I have the milk machine, but I dont know if its just mechanical like teat size that improves with maturity, or is a fixed trait. She really is blooming this spring, as a 3 YO. Looking forward to seeing what her udder looks like this year. 

Oh my, I'm rambling, I'll blame it on kidding season lack of sleep


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## LMonty (Oct 25, 2007)

> Slice meat thin, mix 1/3 liquid soap to 2/3rds soy sauce, marinate the meat slices in the fridge in the juice from 4 hours to overnight. Shake dry and put in your food dehydrator...yum yum!


Vicki- did you mean LIQUID SMOKE, or Liquid Soap?


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## Madfarmer (Nov 18, 2008)

Liquid soap?? In jerky??? Vicki, I think you'd better stick to just SELLING the soap!! :nooo Did you by any chance mean liquid SMOKE?

Tom


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Now Vicki, its suppose to read "Don't Smoke The Soap" :biggrin :laughcry. Tammy


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## Madfarmer (Nov 18, 2008)

Years ago my ex was making a stir-fry. She'd had a couple (?) glasses of wine. When it was time to thicken the sauce, she grabbed the wrong yellow box & dumped in baking soda instead of cornstarch. There were suds on that Dinner, yep!

Tom


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## ChristinaF. (Dec 2, 2008)

In Romania everyone milks goats and sheep from the back, so, yes, it is possible. 

Christina


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

How do you milk from the back, I mean where do your legs go? Do you sit sideways like when you milk from the side?


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## [email protected] (Oct 26, 2007)

I straddle the stand and milk with my arms on the insides of the legs. By the way, this is the easiest way for a pregnant lady to milk!


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## ChristinaF. (Dec 2, 2008)

In Romania they just have a wooden platform. The shephard boys sit with their legs under it and the goats jump up and get milked that way. It's pretty interesting to watch. Sometimes the platform is big and they have 4 or more shephards in a row. Some one else lets the goats up four at a time. They don't even feed them. They just are used to standing there nicely while the shephard boys milk them.

Christina


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

ok, I have some dog-gone ugly udders out here and have some does who started off as FF with streams so tiny and capacity so large that it used to make me cry to milk them. i would get on this forum and wonder why it took me 30 minutes to milk each doe. Well, the teats were pinky sized the first year and they were milking 7-9 pounds.

NOW as 3rd fresheners, the teat holes are MUCH larger as i did not sell these does and just stuck with them year after year, crying all the while (ok, just whining the second year)...so yes, the milking gets MUCH easier on FF that disappoint with tiny, thin-streamed teats.

Ok, I sold one of these does, Glennis, to a friend...why? Because she turned into one of the best does out here and i wanted my friend to have a BEST doe as my friend had some health issues.

BTW the dog ugly udders I have out here are from the original stock i bought. Breeding stock was bought from a dairy where all they cared about was volume. So large capacity and poor attachment. The first cross with a "good" buck pulled the udders up on the doelings and i am awaiting what improvements will come each year.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Laura, I have a doe who is a second freshener, and yes, her stream is a bit better than the first year.


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## Qz Sioux (Feb 21, 2009)

I was just wondering if it might make it easier to milk her doe from the back so that she wouldn't have to worry about the bactierial transfer, plus my friend was able to milk both sides at the same time kinda like people do with a cow (having 2 teats on each side). I am considering having my DH build me a milk stand that will allow me to put my knees between the rear legs so that I can milk from behind. He can build anything I design, and he can't design as well as I can, and I can't build much of anything :blush2 .

Suzie


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

Susie, off the subject, just wanted to say that i really love your user name


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## Qz Sioux (Feb 21, 2009)

LOL, thanks Diane. When I was doing mounted patrol, one of the troopers started calling me that cuz everyone called me "Suzie Q". My DH and I were separated at the time, so I changed my Farm Name to Qz Sioux farms, and I even have some friends who now call me Qz. It is kinda funny to walk thru a store with a friend and have them call me that.... I get all kinds of funny looks.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Yes...Liquid SMOKE!!!  LOL!!!

I think teats are given 2 points because it's about how well you can control that gene also 

But yes Laura, although teats get longer, they never get much bigger around, I hate pencil teats! And does with thin streams of milk never really do get better. Most of the folks you start out with your family milkers will be milking by hand forever, so teat size and those darn thin streams will haunt you. Vicki


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

> I was just wondering if it might make it easier to milk her doe from the back so that she wouldn't have to worry about the bactierial transfer


I milk 4 at a time from the rear (machine of course) but it's next to impossible to milk that type of teat from the rear, by hand. Especially if the doe is a squatter! :crazy It throws those teats even more foreward. I LOVE those does that the teats point straight down, even if milking with machine.

Those that I've seen milking from the rear...just straddle and sit on the milk stand up next to the doe and use their elbows and forearms to keep feet out of the milk bucket. Course it's a little gross this time of year. :ick

Maybe not so bad right now, as she's a FF, but as she gets older and the udder depth gets deeper, the udder will swing more foreward, making the *pockets* deeper.
:lol My offender....has always gotten in the outside spot on the milk stand, just so I can strip her from the side! I do pre-dip, put machine on, and all but strip from the rear. One hand holds up the udder floor, the other does what needs to be done. To date, with 3 daughters AND a full sister, in my herd, none of them have that type of udder. Course none of them milk 16#'s of milk and dry off still producing 7-8#'s, either. :biggrin
Kaye


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## KingsCoGoatGuy (Dec 20, 2008)

Edited: Did not see page number two. :blush2 Question already answered.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Well atleast I have figured out a way to milk her. And Sheri (Loan a Goat girl) is going to start coming over every evening to milk. She needs to know how to milk her since shes taking her to fair. And this stinks too, we have some other girls here that look really good that Sheri works with but you think we could trade animals? NO. Fair board wanted all animals paperwork in 3 months in advance. So there is no changing. I asked the leader what happens if a kid looses their doe what then? NO CHANGES, so that means they don't get to show.  All that hard work all year long :nooo. I would fight it and I would encourage the kid to fight it too. Tammy


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## Guest (Mar 14, 2009)

Soap, smoke, wine, and jerky all in the same thread.....can't believe I missed out on all this fun.

Tammy.....I have an idea about your doe. Would it be possible to make a small removable platform that you could throw up on the milkstand (towards the rear) that would elevate her back feet higher in the air. A 2 ft x 2 ft platform about 4 inches high under her back legs, would mean that she would be running downhill towards her front end, but it might shift the udder enough forward to help the milking situation. Then again, she might just squat more in the rear in order to try to level back up, which might make the milking situation worse.

Might be worth a try though.

Whim


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## Little Moon (Dec 29, 2007)

Not to hijack this thread, but I too milk from the back. It is so much easier on my shoulders and neck.

Anne


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## Tim Pruitt (Oct 26, 2007)

It would be interesting to see this doe with milk in her udder instead of milked out.


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Mar 2, 2009)

Qz Sioux said:


> I was just wondering if it might make it easier to milk her doe from the back so that she wouldn't have to worry about the bactierial transfer, plus my friend was able to milk both sides at the same time kinda like people do with a cow (having 2 teats on each side).
> 
> Suzie


We hand milk, sitting beside the goat, not behind and milk both teats at the same time. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I figured most people, whether milking from the side or the rear, milked both at the same time unless there was a problem like the OP is having.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Tim, she really doesn't look filled up when she is full and you can only see the crease from underneath the udder...right now I am NOT going to get me and my camera down there....EEEEEOOOWWW! 
I am going to wait a month or two and revisit the situation after she has a chance to produce more. At the moment her top milk weight is 2 1/2#s JOY  Tammy


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## Bella Star (Oct 27, 2007)

:blush Well DUH ! like I dont know what jerky is ! :rofl but I thought you meant some sort of jerky movement part :rofl but heck... maby I need some soap jerky as it might clear my thinking :crazy


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