# CL carried in milk?



## NPgoats (Mar 18, 2010)

Ok, I've read a lot of back logs and can't seem to find what a lot of people have asked but never seems to be answered (or maybe I just haven't found were it was answered yet). 
Is CL carried in milk? What I mean is if you have a goat that has CL (or a goat that has an active CL abcess) and you are milking her is the milk bad because it contains the CL virus/germ/bacteria? Can you drink it raw? Can it be given to goat kids? 
From what I read I understood it was able to be transfered to humans, right?
I understand about the CAE but still have these questions about CL.
Going through the diseases one at a time to really understand them. Yes, just a little OCD! LOL
Thanks for the feedback.

Linda


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## SherrieC (Oct 26, 2007)

As I understand it. If A goat had CL and had a lump in her udder, and it burst, the pus would slosh around in the milk and yes germs would contaminate and be milked out.. You have no idea if this is going on or not, cause we can't see inside the udder. She also can have lumps in her lungs and Cough it on you. But if you knew for sure that your doe only had ONE lump if its walled off germs are walled away. They won't effect antigin tests or infect anyone, until it bursts. CL is transmitable to any living animal. horse, bird, human, sheep. the best thing for a CL+ goat's owner, is Not to own it.


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## Wendy Tinney (Jul 15, 2008)

There shouldn't be a CL doe anywhere on your place. It spreads rapidly. I know that it can spread to people but wouldn't even be wondering about the milk because of how awful CL is. If I ever found it, the goat would never come home from the vet! No matter who it was. Please don't take this the wrong way, but it is not something to be tolerated.

Wendy


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## homeacremom (Nov 6, 2007)

It's zoonotic disease and can be spread through any of the exude. It's freaky to know about a herd near here. Every time I see them (occasionally drive by) half the herd has a visible abscess on the neck....and she sells/gives milk for human consumption. Freaky. No way would I use milk from a CL+ doe, especially raw.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

We had CL, it didnt' spread like wildfire although likely because we kept the girl shaved and also my vet cut out all abcess she had. It's another one of those, not quite as bad as CAE, but alot of folks had CL, alot of folks thought it was a cancer that family groups had. I still don't know why so many back in the late 80's did so little testing  There are lots of corny growths your goats will get, but agreed with Wendy I would not keep a positive goat anymore, period, CAE or CL (cornybacterium pseudotuberculosis) or even now staph. I don't buy goats from folks who have freaky worming schedules either  

But you are doing exactly the right thing, learn as much as you can, and then share what you learn, then make up written in stone rules for your farm. Vicki


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## NPgoats (Mar 18, 2010)

Thank you everyone for your replies. They were very helpful. Now to move on and educate myself on other issues and diseases of goats.


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## Hollybrook (Jul 17, 2009)

You dont get a straight answer b/c not alot is know of CL or CAE I was a nurse for 10 yrs I dont know it all about goats but my understanding is no. CL is transfered from puss leaking from the ruptures cysts and people do not get CL but would you want to drink milk that containded CL anitbodies? Someone asked me that question a few mos ago and while driving home I had time to process it and well if I didnt know yea, I would if you ever go to Europe and drink goat milk chances are your gonna be drinking milk that has CL antibodies in CL is very very common accross the pond, so in a nutt shell from my goats i know and test yea i drink it raw from an unknown source pasturized only please . Wve not had either nor have I seen any goats w/ CL or CAE but from what ive learned about them it's been overkill and that my 2 cents


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## NPgoats (Mar 18, 2010)

Thank you Dave. I'm a thinker and like to process and use logic too. You gave me more to think about.
Linda


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Since cornybacterium is zoonic, it means all warm blooded animals. I have seen CL and CAE symptomatic does at shows, in fact several of the gals on here got to see a doe with full blown CAE at a show I pointed her out to them. We had a guy who had a very obvious CL abcess at rear udder at a show down her. I have seen it at farms. Most folks don't test and we know from just this forum when new folks actually test those very healthy appearing does, most do get positive results. We have all helped out those with CL in their herds, both on here but mostly on HT. CL so is prevelant in the sheep industry, spread by shearing companies, so much so that because of them an the on going classifcation with the USDA of sheepandgoats likely will be part of NAIS. Vicki


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## NPgoats (Mar 18, 2010)

At a show????
Don't you have to have a health certificate to attend a show? Wouldn't that be one of the things that *shouldn't* pass on a health cert. so not to infect the place or other goats? I would think that a goat that was possitve on either CAE or CL wouldn't be allow to be exhibited for the protection of others especially an abcess that was inflamed and visible. Sorry, I don't know the rules and regulations of goat shows. 
BUT it seems to me if the industry was trying to eradicate CAE and CL the people as a whole would want to work together by not exposing infected goats to public exhibits and clean goat...(ie - don't take infected goats to a show)...common sense. :duh

Hummmm, no offensive. I must be developing some kind of passion. LOL :soap
Linda


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Nope Linda, a typical scenerio at a show is folks come up to me, I then go to the show secretary.... at neither show did they do anything. It was so blantantly obvious how all of us felt that a very well known Togg breeder in my area who usually uses my show chains, moved my show chain away from his goat, and then stood guard. In the classes I took in wetones for the judge to use before touching my goats, everyone knew exactly what was going on. This is the same show that the show secretaries doe had snotty noses, she showed nubians and most folks went home with sick goats. As an exhibitor your really stuck policeing others yourself and the just warning your friends. Vicki


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## Rose (Oct 26, 2007)

The health certificate required for travel between states does NOT require testing for any diseases.

The vet in Texas takes all their temperatures and looks at them individually. No blood work or other testing.

I give him the tattoo data, birth dates, genders, markings, etc., on a spreadsheet and pick up the health cert the next day.

What is really *stupid* is that the certificate is required due to the Scrapies Eradication Program. Scrapies is rare in goats, and it takes months to develop.

IF they all had just been exposed to it, they could get the cert, travel, and come down with the disease in another state.

The certificate doesn't mean much, if you ask me.


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## NPgoats (Mar 18, 2010)

Rose ,
It sounds the same as horses with the coggins test. It is a yearly test (or 6 months at stricker barns). You can have the test done one day and be exposed the next. By the time you pick up the coggins your horse can have contracted the disease but your coggins test certificate is good for the year. 
I know a system of helping clean up diseases has to begin somewhere and relay on those to keep making steps in the right direction.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Exactly Linda, that is the right attitude, I just simply refuse to go back to how it was. The internet is a great tool in keeping folks honest or you loose sales. It's few and far between the really awful farms you try to keep new folks away from, shutting them down or at least their practices. What's fun is the reason they make up when they do go out of business!

When enough breeders are asked for their whole herd negative CAE test, the more will actually test or loose sales. Vicki


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## Fiberaddict (Jun 4, 2009)

Linda, I do want to add to your post re: Coggins. As of...oh, 2003, I think, it became required for all horses in TX that live within 50 fet of another owner's animal to have a Coggins run annually.

Guess how many people actually *do* that? :sigh: (my source - Equus Magazine - my vet hadn't heard of it, and STILL doesn't enforce it.)

We haven't tested our goats yet - we bought from a clean, closed herd (except for the new doeling - but I feel comfortable with the breeder's precautions) - but we WILL be testing this fall. Any that come up positive - well, the dogs'll be well fed for a while. :sigh:

And now my husband wants Alpines.......


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