# Buck Mastectomy



## paulaswrld (Mar 2, 2008)

Well, I dropped my really cool and awesome Sr. Herdsire *B Lakeshore-Farms RC Tamatrix AKA Trix off this morning to have his mammary system removed due to a tumor that had developed in his teat and I guess moved up. Here is my question, the Vet wants to know if I want to send it in for biopsy. That will be an additional $80.00...on top of a good bill already for the surgery with gas as I did not want injection sedation.

Should I do it? If yes, what would I do with the findings? Meaning do we proactively treat cancer in goats?

Thanks so much and keep my boy in your thoughts today,

Paula


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## cariboujaguar (Feb 9, 2009)

oh darn, you've already done so much... I guess you really should get a byopsy... I commend you for taking such great care of him!


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Only Trix would get breast cancer! Poor guy. If you decide to get the biopsy, I would be willing to chip in a bit toward it, since I have 4 goats with him in them. Would be good to know if this is a hereditary thing.


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## Haglerfarm (Aug 11, 2008)

Paula,
Check with Kris. Years ago Stylemaster, sire to many of her kids and mine had mammary cancer. He had a complete mastectomy. He did just fine. I do not recall it appearing in any other animals. Just about all of mine go back to him. And of course most of hers.
Les


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## Patty13637 (Oct 26, 2007)

I guess it would depend on what you would plan on doing if it was cancer ..if you would treat the cancer get the it done. If you would not treat it then dont spend the extra $$.




Patty


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

I would wonder if radiation or chemo would render him sterile. You might want to check into that. I know some human men elect to have their sperm frozen prior to cancer treatment. You might want to have your buck collected. Kathie


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

I just would have to know.


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

When I had mine done...I refused the biopsy. 1. because of expense, 2. I wasn't going to have him treated if it was.

I also had already had him collected twice, 60 straws, and had him collected one more time after the surgery. 50 straws. So, with me having 110 straws of semen on him, I wasn't going to spend the extra money for treatment. The surgery didn't affect his fertility or libido one bit.  I do remember that LSU did cancer treatments on a couple of dogs from the clinic and the bill ran well over $2,000 ea., and that was 15 yrs. ago.

My suggestion...if you haven't already, plan to collect him this fall.
Kaye


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## paulaswrld (Mar 2, 2008)

Well, I just called the Vet and he did GREAT!!! she actually had to go ahead and remove pretty much everything but did not have to touch the reproductive system. She took pictures as this was a first for her...I willl try and get them so I can post if anyone is curious. He is up and eating hay.

I decided to not have the biopsy as I also would not get treatment and the vet said there is not much she would suggest we do anyway. Thank goodness I had hiim collected last year as I do love his kids and what he has done formy herd.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions and Thanks Kaye, I gave my vet your vets number this morning and will find out if they chatted when I go to pick him up.


Woohoo,

Paula


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## Leo (Mar 10, 2008)

Poor guy! Glad to hear he's recouping well. Hopefully it won't come back.
Megan


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Oh good. Glad to hear he's up and doing well!


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## mill-valley (Feb 22, 2008)

:yeahthat

And I would love to see some photos...have never heard of this.


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## Ravens Haven (Oct 26, 2007)

Glad everything went well!!!!


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

:rofl Wanna' blow a judges mind?? Get her to write you a Dr.'s statement for him only having one teat, on her letterhead.(Won't hurt to have it for LA, if he's a young buck.) Stating that he DID have two before the surgery. :rofl I've asked several judges about that "gray area" and got both replies...I'd disqualify him & I'd accept the statement. But, my buck was finished so no need to show him again. :lol He did have a very long large scar to prove the statement. So, I was never questioned at LA.

Now, there's two vets that have something to brag about that not many see. 

Glad he came through the surgery without a hitch.
Kaye


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Ah congratulations!! Glad he went thru surgery that well


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## paulaswrld (Mar 2, 2008)

:rofl Too funny, I just got off the phone with my good friend Karen Smith ( a judge) and she told me to make sure I get the paper...but, said the same thing as Kaye that she would take it and most will but they are still some that will disqualify him. The worse part of this is that he has 2 legs and I have been wanting to finish him since he came here but we have NO buck shows around here....hence, my putting on the Music City Classic May 2nd and 3rd....not sure he will feel up to going or be in condition...bummmer....oh well, he has a good perm LA so I guess I should just be glad that he made it and is seems to still be fertile dance:

Thanks all for your well wishes,

Paula


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## Nancy (Oct 25, 2007)

Glad he came through it and is doing better.


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## mamatomany (Aug 7, 2008)

Is cancer heriditary in goats? If he has this issue, won't his offspring carry a higher percentage of acquiring something like he has? Is there a prevention method at all? Just curious...Just the talk of collecting him I assume you will use him even with his current known problems.


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

Probably. I don't know and there's probably not a study done on it. Both these bucks were *milking* bucks and developed the tumors from mastitis. Even though mine was milked when strutted and treated for mastitis, then dry treated in the spring when he wasn't milked. I don't see it as a problem, as it's a sign of a buck that throws milky daughters. 

Yes, I will continue to use my buck through AI. A buck that throws EX 90 daughters, with EX in mammaries, 1 on Top 10, and numerous daughters that win in the showring AND he has a perm. score of EX 92, yes, I will continue to use him.
Kaye


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I have a cool photo of GE's milking teats. Since he is my second buck to milk, I knew how to take care of him, and I dry cow infuse him after rut each year. Although he has alot of tissue in his teats and produces milk, he hasn't yet had mastitis.

I would doubt many of these are really tumors, but cysts with walled off staph or other bacteria.

I have seen cancer tumors in a saanen does udder and this is not what milking bucks udders get, cancer in the udder is usually melanoma type skin cancers.

I would think this would only be herditary in bucks, as in, some lines give you alot of milk and bucks that milk also...so it becomes mangement. Now pink skin that can get melanoma type cancers, yes that would be hereditary.

Not manageing my first bucks milking teats, he got mastitis, got very ill, and one half of his teat was completely scar tissue, I could see when you feel it why it would be called a tumor, but not a tumor as in cancer....it's what milk cysts look like also when cut out of mastitic udders. Vicki


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## mamatomany (Aug 7, 2008)

O.M.G. milking bucks, for real? I have never heard of such a thing...that is crazy...how's the milk taste?


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## paulaswrld (Mar 2, 2008)

I never tasted his milk....sorta gave me the creeps...but, I did have to milk him out a couple of times a year and he did present with Mastitis last year.

P


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## Jonna (Feb 10, 2009)

OK, I have to ask. Sorry if I am getting off topic, but is a milking buck what it sounds like? :really How does this happen? Do you milk them daily? Is this something people breed for? I am flabergasted (I love getting to use that word!).


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## KingsCoGoatGuy (Dec 20, 2008)

It's not you milk them daily it would be when they fill up. YouTube had a video of a Saanen buck that also milked... It's a sign he is a VERY milky buck.  Not something we breed for in bucks, we more want the milk coming from the does!


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Last year, when Paula went on vacation, another gal and I goat sat for her. I remember looking at Trix and thinking, "MY GOD! His teats are HUGE!" Not long after is when he got mastitis. I felt so bad, wondering if I had thought to milk him if he wouldn't have gone through that. Paula had to educate a vet about it, b/c they were certain it just couldn't be mastitis and wanted to treat for something else. Poor, big, sweet guy was a real trooper. While they had lactated ringers going into him, Paula or her daughter would have to get back there and milk him out. No udder, just really big teats. It took more than a few squeezes to get all the milk out--there was a lot more than you'd think. I was completely dumbfounded just watching it all. But there's no mistaking that he passes on a ton of milk to his daughters. Good golly...


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## Jonna (Feb 10, 2009)

KingsCoGoatGuy said:


> It's not you milk them daily it would be when they fill up. YouTube had a video of a Saanen buck that also milked... It's a sign he is a VERY milky buck.  Not something we breed for in bucks, we more want the milk coming from the does!


Thanks for that clarification, Alex.  You know what I meant . . .


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## Haglerfarm (Aug 11, 2008)

When Stylemaster had his mastectomy, Kris had a vets statement when she had him LA'd. Not a problem at all. And I even think she showed him once. I do not think he was disqualified. I don't really remember now.
And yes, Stylemaster was a milky buck. But, he had huge tumors that were sent in and it was cancer. 
Like I said earlier, I have never seen it show up in his descendants. And I would not hesitate using him again and I have him in the tank. I have seen way too many of his offspring that were awesome. I personally had 3 champion daughters and a son who was very nice. I am not sure of the number of his champion offspring off hand, but I can think of 7 real quick. Plus lots of his grandchildren (smile) and great grandchildren.
And I know the quality of Trix's offspring to know he definately would be work using.
Paula, I am so glad he did well. He is such a sweet guy. I really like him a lot.
Les


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## Dacaree (Jan 31, 2009)

I'm not sure a milky buck is something I want to experience. :blush


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2009)

Vicki asked me to post this for her.

[attachment deleted by admin]


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## mamatomany (Aug 7, 2008)

What exactly are we looking at...one teat that is full?


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## Jonna (Feb 10, 2009)

whoa, that looks painful. Does it hurt the bucks?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

His left side is milked out, well there is still a little in the left side, you can see behind the teat a rounded area. The right side is full of milk. I milked out both sides and infused him with pirsue 

Milked out he has a defienet teat and udder, full like this side is and it's all looks like one huge teat.

No it is not painful, and thankfully he doesn't care if I mess with it. Now leave it alone and yes it can become painful, if there is enough pressure in the udder he will leak milk, which is why they get mastitis, just like does.

I only watch him, when it gets full I milk him out, which isn't but about 3 times during rut. With a doe here CIDR'd and just bred, he will be at appraisal this weekend with milk in his teats, should be fun for the appraiser  Vicki


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

Les,
Utah's started out about the size of a golf ball and in one rut season grew to the size of grapefruit. Reason for me having the tumor removed. Vet also didn't like the fact there were tenacles adhered to the body wall and peeled those away with the tumor. Besides, I was getting pretty tired of dealing with a buck that milked. Does are one thing...but 3 yrs. of milking and dry treating that buck was getting old real fast.  It was also affecting the way he moved and he seemed uncomfortable. He had a perfectly formed teat with delineation from the "udder" and would milk down just like a does except for the hard tumor. 

Oh, well, It did teach me to keep an eye on buck's teats and check them several times a year. :sigh
Kaye


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## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

This has been a very interesting thread.  Can safely say, I have never heard of anything like this until today.


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## Becky-DixieDoesAlpines (Oct 26, 2007)

we've had several bucks that required occasional milking!


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

I suppose it's not so different than humans. There are some men that lactate and some that get breast cancer... I know a man that had to have a mastectomy for that very reason.


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## Haglerfarm (Aug 11, 2008)

Vicki,
That reminded me that Stylemaster's had tentacles spread also. Must have been the same type. His was grapefruit sized also. 
I have had 2 or 3 bucks that milked. I have been lucky I guess.
Les


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## Leo (Mar 10, 2008)

Does the milk taste bucky? I would imagine it just being a pain to milk, hopefully they behave though, no peeing on the beard while milking.
Megan


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Megan I will freeze it for you and send it to you, you can tell us all if it is bucky or not  Vicki


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## paulaswrld (Mar 2, 2008)

:rofl :rofl


Well, I just picked up Trix and he is back home in a stall...he seems great but it is just so muddy here that I don't want to risk letting him loose in the paddock. Vet took some really graphic and awesome pictures, and she will email them to me tonight. As soon as I get them I will start posting. She took about 8, a before, during and after shots. Very cool. He must be happier as his testacles look normal again and before the surgery the teat was so swollen it was lifting the testacles out towards the back adn they looked sorta shriveled up like when its 16 degrees out ... but, it was 70.

P


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