# Chaffhaye feeding question



## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

Those feeding Chaffhaye in place of alfalfa pellets-

I have a question

according to their web site, Chaffhaye only provides 9% crude protein. If you are feeding whole grains and no alfalfa pellets, what are you using for a protein supplement in your over all feed program? 

The only hay I can get is low quality, mixed grass and weed. Because of our weather we can't grow alfalfa hay and our first crop usually can't be harvested until Mid July, so it's low in protein.

Suggestions on what would be a good protein additive without buying commercial feeds?


----------



## Qadosh Adamah Lamanchas (Nov 2, 2012)

soybeans and/or winter peas.


----------



## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Is that 9% on a dry matter basis (DMB)? Because I think Chaffhaye is pretty wet, yes? If it is on an as-fed basis, then the protein content is actually much higher than it shows. The water does not count as far as how many nutrients are in the food itself.


----------



## lonestrchic23 (Jan 7, 2011)

Yup, what Nancy said. Go look on their website, they have both protein values listed. I feed the same amount in pounds as I fed in alfalfa pellets and they are looking fabulous. 

Chaffhaye just signed off on a dairy goat study with Langston University.... Think the study will have 36 dairy does..... Also doing a ruminant study with Texas Tech.... Looking forward to seeing the results on those


----------



## Qadosh Adamah Lamanchas (Nov 2, 2012)

Crystal, that is excellent news about the studies! More companies/researchers need to get together on studying goats


----------



## tendermeadowsnigerians (Sep 8, 2010)

Interested to know what you guys are paying per 50lb bag? The only dealer around me wants $15.75/bag with a $0.25/bag discount if I buy a whole pallet. I am paying 12.99 for alfalfa pellets so right now not even worth trying. Just wondering if shes high or if alfalfa pellets are even higher in your area.


----------



## Qadosh Adamah Lamanchas (Nov 2, 2012)

A 40 lb bag of alfalfa pellets around me cost $12.99 right now. It's about neck and neck what I could get chaffhaye for.


----------



## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

We will be paying 15.50 for a 50 pound bag of Chaffhaye. The 50 pounds of alfalfa pellets costs 16.50.


----------



## tendermeadowsnigerians (Sep 8, 2010)

Just talked to my feed girl, they are going to start carrying chaffehaye and told me 12.75 a bag. So i guess the lady closer to me is just pricing hers higher.


----------



## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

If I recall correctly, it is 9% as fed and 20% on a dry matter basis. We have been very happy with it. Also, I don't add anything to supplement protein levels. We feed coastal bermuda, Chaffhaye, and whole grains. Even through my first freshener LM's lactation (milking 10 lbs at peak) she maintained her condition well at those levels. We need someone like Lee to explain what the actual protein % ends up being, but I didn't have any of the issues associated with too much protein nor too little.


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

We are going through some of this with the fodder system also. To get to your values they dry your fodder and dry your chaffhaye. Which then brings all your numbers down.


----------



## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

Thank you, my mind is more at ease.

The Chaffhaye is supposed to reach our new dealer (a local goat person) sometime the third week of January. Because I am weaning all the goats off of the alfalfa pellets and cutting back on their oats, I started them on the Lucerne Farms bagged alfalfa/Dengie stuff. (Alfalfa is such a cool word. Sounds pretty cool when you pronounce it backwards too) in the morning instead of hay and oats and keeping 2 of the grain feeders full of the Dengie stuff when I am home. They get their grass/weed hay twice a day and oats at night. They are protesting the loss of 1 meal of oats and are tossing the alfalfa stuff all over the place. I think I have that taken care of now, and I am hoping that they will appreciate the Chaffhaye so much that they WILL NOT throw it onto the floor. grrrrrrrr

Anyway, I cleaned out their big stall today and rebedded their stall with straw. I filled up the outside hay feeders with hay and the inside feeders with Dengie. As soon as they were allowed back in the stall, they bypassed the hay and Dengie and ate the nasty straw that I scattered on the floor! Whats with that? They won't eat hay or grain that has fallen onto the floor but they will eat straw off the ground??????

I bet they wouldn't eat the straw if I loaded their hay feeder with it.


----------



## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

So Vicki- with Chaffhaye and fodder systems where you have a lower protein percentage as fed (e.g. 9%), is it even necessary to up the protein anywhere else? Can't you just up the Chaffhaye (or fodder) as percent of the total ration? Obviously the protein % is only decreased because moisture content is increased, not because pellets or dry hay have any quantitative difference in protein... so can you just calculate protein percentages using the weight of what you're feeding and the % moisture?


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Niki, I just don't believe that the Chaffhaye can be that low in protein. It makes no logical sense that adding a fermentation quality product to alfalfa would then lower the protein. My point is, they dry this wet feed, just like fodder, which then dramatically decreases the numbers of protein and many other things. It is not analysed wet, which it should be. With fodder you have an obvious increase with sprouting we all know this, yet they dry this and then plummet your actual numbers back down.

I would be feeding my chaffhaye as my protein, justl like alfalfa hay or alfalfa pellets. Fodder will be replaceing grain and hopefully a good portion of grass hay as has been seen in other herds. Vicki


----------



## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

Yes, that's how we're feeding it- as a total replacement of other alfalfa sources. I hadn't really thought before about calculating the percentages... I was just curious how someone would do it. I believe you're right- that because of the higher digestibility the protein actually ends up being much higher. Their website claims that TDN % are twice that of good quality hay because of the fermentation. It is essentially pre-digested. According to the bag it is 9% protein as fed (wet), 20% DMB. I've not been concerned with them not getting enough protein.


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Maybe PAV will see this and explain


----------



## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

That would be most appreciated!


----------



## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

Yes it would!


----------



## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

The amount of protein an animal needs or any other nutrient, is not actually a percent, it is a certain weight of protein. In other words, and I am just completely making this up...lets say that a certain goat needed 0.5 lb protein a day and my hay was 20% protein DMB, then she would need to eat 2.5 lbs of that hay to meet her protein needs for the day. Does that help make more sense of it, or confuse things even worse?

With a lower quality of food, an animal has to eat more of it to meet her needs for certain nutrients. With forages, the limiting factor is generally the amount of food the goat can consume; in other words, the nutrition is less concentrated, so they need to eat more, but can only stuff themselves so full. That is why we have to feed "concentrates" or grain/feed, etc. Because they have higher nutrients/energy per lb of feed, so nutritional requirements are met with fewer mouthfuls.


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

My question is more along these lines. We know the alfalfa or the grain is a certain percentage of protein. How does making it wet (fermenting or sprouting) then decreases the available protein? Especially when they are not testing this product wet, they are drying it and then testing?


----------



## Laverne (Apr 4, 2010)

If I could safely figure out how to ferment my alfalfa pellets (11% water) into a fermented meal, adding the extra 39% more water that Chaffehaye has (which is 50% water), then I would have 39% more product. That would sure help with my feed bill. :lol


----------



## tendermeadowsnigerians (Sep 8, 2010)

Does anyone in Ohio feed Chaffehaye? If so where do you buy it? The chaffehaye sales gal told us that they dont sell it to Ohio.


----------



## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Oops, I goofed...the animal in my example would need 2.5 lbs of DRY Matter. So, if your hay is 85% Dry Matter, then she would need to eat 3 lbs of hay to meet her protein needs. If you are feeding something that has a higher moisture, like Chaffhaye, lets say the chaffhaye was 60% DM (I have no idea!), then that doe would need to eat about 4 lbs of the wet product to meet her DM needs for protein. The water does not figure in the equation, and in fact, too much water, could make it difficult for the animal to consume the amount she would need to meet her needs (also fills up the animal, just like too much fiber/"undigestable" material, but not quite as much as those things do). Actually, I bet feeding this would boost production due to the extra water the goat is taking in; plus they wouldn't have to be watered as much. 

When the lab analyzes feedstuffs, they dry it, which removes the water, but nothing else. So, if you are calculating something on an as-fed basis, you will need to figure back in the water. It is dried quickly, unlike say some hay that was over-dried in the field, so makes little difference in the nutritional profile, as far as lost nutrients, etc.

Does anybody feed this that lives where it freezes a lot? I was wondering if the product gets frozen when put out? I know it probably wouldn't in the bag if the fermentation is continuous, but was wondering about the feeding out of it.


----------



## Qadosh Adamah Lamanchas (Nov 2, 2012)

Nicole, the only people in Ohio who feed Chaffhaye are those who go out of state to get it or order a truckload themself. It's illegal for feed stores and whatnot to be distributors. I spoke with a veterinarian about it and they said it was because of the raised risk of listeria. I'm in Ohio and my neighbor feeds Chaffhaye. She has to go to Pittsburgh to get it, though!


----------



## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

fmg said:


> With a lower quality of food, an animal has to eat more of it to meet her needs for certain nutrients. With forages, the limiting factor is generally the amount of food the goat can consume; in other words, the nutrition is less concentrated, so they need to eat more, but can only stuff themselves so full. That is why we have to feed "concentrates" or grain/feed, etc. Because they have higher nutrients/energy per lb of feed, so nutritional requirements are met with fewer mouthfuls.


You're absolutely right we have to account for moisture content when talking about lbs per head per day... but this isn't a question of low quality roughage and a nutrient deficit, is it? Because we're talking about replacing alfalfa pellets, not grain. The product has quite a high TDN percentage and high DMB protein percentage, it's just not being fed dried. It seems like all you'd really have to account for is the moisture. I don't believe you're going to end up with more nutrition coming from pellets than Chaffhaye unless you've replaced your hay with pellets. Chaffhaye can be fed as a total hay replacement (though even at peak lactation I didn't need to in order to maintain condition) so you can always just up the percentage of their total ration (and drop the percentage of dry hay) in order to account for the difference in weight due to moisture, if that makes any sense. Yes, you're feeding more but I don't believe you're going to hit a limit where they would be consuming more pellets than you could possibly make up for even with a higher moisture content. Now, if you were wanting to replace your grain ration with Chaffhaye or alfalfa pellets that'd be another story. Our grain ration didn't change.


----------



## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

I was just using that as an example...trying to explain...I guess I'm not really doing a good job of that, though. Anyway, yes, it is the same as high-quality alfalfa hay, but with extra water and the added benefits of microbes and pre-digestion.


----------



## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

It made good sense, I was just trying to relate it to this and wasn't able to.


----------



## Laneelizabeth (Jan 4, 2015)

*Chaffehaye question 2015*

Alfalfa is now $21 a bale with much waste. I also feed a bit of organic, gmo free goat grain (Scratch and Peck, made locally in Oregon) to which I add sunflower, vitamin e, diatomacious earth, kelp, Hoeggers natural wormer sometimes. I think Chaffehaye would be more cost effective at this stage, considering most alfalfa is being exported and therefore driving up the price. Does anyone else think this sounds like a less expensive and wasteful idea to feed Chaffehay @$14.50 a bale ( double compressed) with no waste? I need advice I have a small herd of Nubians very well bred and I always want the best for them, nutritionally.. any help?


----------



## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

Sure, at that price, I would probably feed chaffhaye too. It is not currently cost effective for me to feed it, because I can get an 80-90 lb great quality alfalfa bale for $8 or alfalfa pellets in bulk for $12.50 cwt where I live.


----------

