# Blue Seal



## Bethel (Oct 4, 2008)

Does anybody Feed Blue Seal Feed ? I was told it was the best you can buy. Premium Dairy Goat Pellet 20 % They are out of Londonderry, NH.


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## Twillingate Farm (Oct 26, 2007)

Yes, we use Blue Seal feeds for most all of our animals since it is locally grown and produced and therefor abundant. I don't know about it being the best you can buy nationwide, but we've had no issues with them for over twenty five years. I don't use the Premium DG pellets, strictly coarse 14 and alfalfa pels for the milkers and Meat Goat finisher for the boers. Both get free choice minerals and fresh hay. The coarse 14 is used with the cows as well so between the turkeys, cows, pigs, goats and chickens... we try to reduce how many different types of feed we have to store.


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## Haglerfarm (Aug 11, 2008)

I have always heard Blue Seal feeds were good. It is not available in my area. Although I think 20% is too high. I feed 12%-16% depending on the animal and whether they are in milk or not.
That is just me,
Les


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Yeah I would want to know how they are getting it up to 20%, can you post the ingredient tag? Vicki


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## VickiLynne (Feb 8, 2008)

I used to use Blue Seal Premium Dairy Goat Pellets and also the Caprine Challenger because it was the best you could buy around here. After finding this forum, I changed my feeding to Blue Seal whole oats, flaked barley, cracked corn, BOSS and Blue Seal Dehydrated Alfalfa Pellets. I feed the COB to my milkers on the stand and the alfalfa pellets free choice along with free choice hay. My goats never looked better. They kept their weight when milking, their coats are beautiful and they just seem happier.


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## Bethel (Oct 4, 2008)

Crude Protein Min. 20.0% Crude Fat, Min 3.0% Crude Fiber,Max.8.0% Calcium, Min. 0.75 Max. 1.05% Phosphorus, Min 0.50% Salt, Min. 0.75% Max 1.25% Copper, Min. 25ppm Max.40ppm Selenium, Min 0.40ppm Vitamin, Min 4000 iu/lb


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Jerome that doesn't tell you anything, what is the actual list of grains to get to those minimums and maximums. ? Vicki


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## Tricia (Oct 26, 2007)

I use Blue Seal's alfalfa pellets, and their quality is okay -- a lot of fines (up to 7 lbs per 50 pound bag). I keep a soil sieve handy since sifted pellets are always completely consumed, fines go to the compost. And Blue Seal's Ultraclean (sometimes) BOSS.

I haven't tried any of their more processed feeds for quite some time since I feed mainly whole grains. The Challenger mix used to be very heavy with molasses. I did use "Sunshine" for a while (similar to Calf Manna) but the protein in that was so high (think it's at 26%), some of the does overfavored it, and the quality was variable. Wish Blue Seal was a little more forthcoming about what's in their processed feeds. I use a dairy pellet as part of the ration for my heavier milkers, but I use Green Mountain's organic sheep and goat pellet (and I do supplement copper).

We've had a couple threads where people have mentioned feeding pellets around 20% protein. Seems very high to me, too.


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2008)

20% is not that high if you are feeding a high milker. Shoot, good quality Alfalfa hay is upwards of 26% protien. Heck even the alfalfa pellets you all swear by are MIN of 17%...that does not mean they are not 20% or higher...just they will not go below 17%. 

You can feed a higher protein feed if you hay is not high in protien. Well for that matter you can feed a higher % of protien hay and still feed a high grain mix of protien. The protien that they do not use will be passed of the body. So, you are wasting money there, but they will get all that they need in the mix. Most of the time protien is raised by some type of By-product. Such as brewers grain or distillers grain. They are high in protien, and cheaper to buy. Instead of Soybean products. 

I would not worry about it at 20% as long as you have plently of long stem hay for them to eat. Keep it in the rumen longer so you get better use of the grain. Most of the time people will slug feed the heck out of them and get the runs. When all that is there is not enough NDF in the diet for them to use what you put into them. You need to stop looking at the Protien and start looking at the NDF and ADF of the feed. Also what is the TDN of the feed that you are feeding them. Since most people will focus on one number and think that is the number that is going to save the earth...when infact its just a small part of what is going into them. That is one reason that TMR's are so great on dairies anymore. You can feed a balanced ration to them instead of just hoping and guess on what they are getting

Ken


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Ken you would just freak out if you were here. There are no Total Mixed Rations, shoot you can't even get a percentage of protein on hay let alone a moisture content. I would bet that my feed dealer doesn't even know that TDN means Total digestable Nutrients. Now the mill, talking to a nutritionist at a mill out here is more about what has always been done and works so well...no they don't have goats, no they don't sell any of their products to dairies..and the mill who does, if you look at the goats, know anything about whole herd health of the group...you would not want to feed thier products. And nobody really ONLY feeds the lactation pellet made locally, or any premade feeds, they tweak it with this and that mostly because we haven't a clue what is in them. It's why I went to the feeding of grains, even though I don't have the raw numbers on the actual grain I am feeding I can get basic ones from feed books to put together my own guesses on what it's meeting or not meeting for my goats.

Sometime when you get some time, I would love to know what you would feed if all you had to feed was what I could get locally, which is alot like what most of us in the south can get. Vicki


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## Tricia (Oct 26, 2007)

Well, one good thing about Blue Seal is that they will test hay! So if you're going to buy it by the load but can get a sample before you commit, Blue Seal will profile it!


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## Haglerfarm (Aug 11, 2008)

Boy,
Vickie you hit the nail on the head. When I ask questions they look at me like I am from Mars.
I know more about the protein content of the individual grains than they do. They always have to look it up.
On their mixed feeds I ask about the copper content and they don't know. Or anything else.
I had one of the guys at the feed mill (after my complaining about finding a cigarette butt in the feed) tell me that I sure was picky about my feed. I asked him how he would like eating it. The boss heard about it and told me if anyone ever said anything like that to me again they would be gone. And to let him know if I found anything like that again. Sheesh!
Les
And when you go to buy hay they have no clue about any of it. Again, the strange looks.


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2008)

First off...there are TMR everywhere. All you need to do is buy a mixer and mix your own. You can not go to a feed store and Buy a TMR, since they are everything that you feed your animals mixed into one group. Hay, grains, minerals and water as a binder. So, of course you are not going to find TMR at a feed store. Since, each one is made for what you want...dairy have different requirements as beef cattle. 

Also, I would not freak out since I bet I have fed more feed than most will see in a lifetime with goats. Its what you make of it, if you get some hairbrain idea that something is bad and go into the feed store and spill what you think. Of course they are going to look at you like you have fell off the turnip truck. Sounds like most of you are buying at stores...not mills. They are just an outlet like Wal-Mart, they get in what sells and dont carry what does not sell. Plain and simple, you got to move the feedstuff or it will go bad on you.

About a hay sample...well hate to tell ya, you can get them anywhere. All you have to do is send in a 3 oz sample of the hay to any big land grant school and pay a little amount and you get the results back. Or, alot of school will do it for free. Most people dont test their hay, since every bale is different and most people will only get what they need to feed for a week or so and that is all. Then come back and moan about not being able to get what you got last time, since someone else came in and bought the rest of it. That is where you need to buy in volume. As the roughage needs to be the foundation of a rumen ration. 

Ken


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Ok let me word that differently  And you thought you were going to get out of this that easy.....

Lets say you have 10 milkers, 2 bucks and keep a handfull of kids each year. The nearest mill is 2 hours one way, and your disel truck is going on 300,000 miles. You've heard me spiel on alfalfa hay and why I use alfalfa pellets...so now what would you do? There is no hay barn to keep a ton of hay so you are limited to your grass hay and what is local. There are few to no dairies on this forum who buy in bulk like you are talking, so think smaller and answer the question. Vicki


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## Guest (Dec 10, 2008)

Well...buy your local grass hay and get it tested. That is the first thing that anyone that wants production will do. As I stated before...the roughage is the base of ANY rumen. If you dont have the roughage then you have a monogastic not a rumen. You can feed grass hay and great production out of it, since you will have to up the protien on your grain mix. So, if you are feeding a 65/35 ration then, with most grass hay you will get around the 10% protien mark...so that is 6.5 pounds of protien per cwt. Lets add in the grain then, you would need to feed a 32% protien grain ration to make it a 18% diet. Or a 26% protien to get a 16% ration. As you are making up the difference in the grain mix as to what your hay is not providing.

A easy way to up the protien on any ration is to add SBM. It at 44%. So, a little goes along ways. That is if we are talking about just balancing to get protien. But, you will have to balance it for more than that. As protien is just a small factor, in the diet.

Alfalfa pellets are a concentrate, so that is also where you can get more protien. As they will not fall into the roughage since they do not have a particle length of over 3.5 inches. So, you will need to watch them as a grain mix...staying under the 50% mark on total intake. Since, in the picture you are feeding them not 3 pounds of alfalfa pellets but, you are feeding them 3 pounds of grain. Hence then you are slug feeding them grain. Since, they will not cause a rumen mat, but sink to the bottom on the rumen and increase the pH of the rumen. 

Lets add this together...you feed 3 pounds of alfalfa pellets...say...3 pound of a grain mix you get 6 pounds of grain mix in the rumen. So, to go with even the high end of the ratio of grain to forage your goats will need to eat roughly 6 to 7 pounds of hay a day. But, at that ratio you are going to get decreased Butterfat and higher protien in the milk. The spelling for an acid rumen. Where if you are going to the standard of a healthy rumen of a 65/35 ratio...your goats will have to eat 11 to 12 pounds of grass hay to hit that mark, with being feed the 6 pounds of grain.

But, then you need to look at the NDF of the hay. As grass hay is normally higher in NDF that will slow down the passage though the rumen. Causing them to feel full more of the time. They are not going to eat the 11 pounds of hay a day that they are needing. 

So, to counter act this you can either cut the alfalfa pellets back and increase the protien in the grain to get it at a lower level fed. Or just deal with acid rumens all the time. 

What can you get local...and what is your grain mix?

Ken


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## Bethel (Oct 4, 2008)

Vicki, It has Got Ground Corn Dehulled Soybean Meal , Corn Distillers Dried Grains, Wheat Middings, Wheat Flour, Cane Molasses, Soybean Hulls, Yeast Culture, Calcium Carbonate, Salt, Calcium Sulfate, Magnesium Oxide, Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Cobalt Carbonate, Calcium lodate, Copper Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride, Niacin, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Biotin, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source of Vitamin K Activity ),Brewers Dried Yeast, Dried Streptococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles. CAUTION; This feed contains supplemental copper. Do not feed to sheep.


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## Bethel (Oct 4, 2008)

Boy , You know I have no clue to what some of the ingredients are in this feed an what they are suppose to do . All I wont to do is to feed a good and healthy Feed for my Goats .


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

> But, then you need to look at the NDF of the hay.


For those of you who are reading this with interest:
neutral detergent fiber (NDF) digestibility or NDFD
It's kind of like reading code until you learn the initials.

I don't know about other states but in Ark. we can have hay samples analyzed using our county USDA Service Center. Generally a small inconspicous building around the county court house...but a wealth of information.
Last time I had some hay analyzed it cost me $3.00. 
Kaye


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## Guest (Dec 10, 2008)

Bethel....what you basically have is a corn, soybean, by-product blend. All those Calcium, zincs, irons...they are all minerals that they have added. 

Ken


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## paulaswrld (Mar 2, 2008)

Ok, I have fiqured out NTF, TMR, TDN but what is ADF?

Thanks,

Paula


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## Bethel (Oct 4, 2008)

aRealdairyman said:


> Bethel....what you basically have is a corn, soybean, by-product blend. All those Calcium, zincs, irons...they are all minerals that they have added.
> 
> Ken


 So is this a good Feed to be feeding my Goats ??? Or is there one better for me.


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## Agape Oaks (Oct 30, 2007)

Vicki
Do you have any big horse ranches near you? Where I am is in the middle of a lot of fancy horse places so I buy from a hay distributer who sells to a lot of them & who has the hay analyzed. Now after buying from them for the past 4 years, they know what my goats like & always hold bales of the good stuff for me . They deliver & stack it too....of course it's pricey but worth it to me


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## chewie (Jul 26, 2008)

Vicki McGaugh Tx Nubians said:


> Lets say you have 10 milkers, 2 bucks and keep a handfull of kids each year. The nearest mill is 2 hours one way, and your disel truck is going on 300,000 miles. You've heard me spiel on alfalfa hay and why I use alfalfa pellets...so now what would you do? There is no hay barn to keep a ton of hay so you are limited to your grass hay and what is local. There are few to no dairies on this forum who buy in bulk like you are talking, so think smaller and answer the question. Vicki


thank you vicki for posting it this way--not all of us have access or means to go to huge lengths to buy feed.

just yesterday i finally (after a full year!) lucked out and found a mill that would mix dry oats, cracked corn and boss, AND bag it. couldnt' believe most places here will deal with only ton amt. or more, and you either bring your own containers, or they charge a large fee to bag it up. or i can pay 4-5 times more at the local 'farm store'. and now i need to find a way to store it! (i bought the tiniest amt they'd do, 1000lbs.)


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## Guest (Dec 10, 2008)

The reason mills have ton min is it takes the same time to change bin numbers and set the system to mix a certain blend if you are doing 100 pounds as 10 tons. Its about making the most money. Plus, then you take up warehouse space on smaller blends as most of them time they will not come when they say that they will pick up the feed, so you have wasted floor space....where is VERY high priced in a mill

Ken


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## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

> but what is ADF?


Acid Detergent Fibre

Oh, NPN is non-protein nitrogen
Kaye


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

ADF= Acid Detergent Fiber

A way of guesstimating the amount of energy the goat would get from eating a product you had tested. Usually in roughage. 

Once again fine if you are purchasing loads of hay from the same field, or if your purchasing grain from a mill, where each batch you are having made is going to be consistant.

Ken, we have the normal...clean whole oats, (barley which is too expensive) corn, cottonseed 50-50 hulls and meal, soybeanmeal, beet pulp (seasonal). Vicki


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## paulaswrld (Mar 2, 2008)

In the last three years I have had to buy from five different hay people and the last one is bringing in hay from all over as most all his own died in the drought. I get the best looking hay I can afford that the girls seem to like. And for me the biggest problem is storage. I can only comfortably store 60 bales at a time ... and 125 if I use my attached to my home garage...hubby not so happy about that one! We do what we have to do. And now again, I am back in the market looking for my next hay source as the last one is all out.


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

An accurate hay sample requires samples from several bales of hay, taken with a hay corer. Just any old handful of hay is really not representative of the whole bale, or the whole lot of hay. Outside stems and leaves are often leached of their content, which is why center cores are used. Dairy One will send envelopes for samples along with instructions and also sells the core, which is very expensive but a handyman can make one out of certain golf clubs. Their tests are fairly high too, at least for the one I need for foundered and insulin resistant horses, but I think they will do a dairy type sample for around $35 dollars. I'd love to find a sampling place around here that costed less. The website for dairy one also gives a lot of info about various hays, minerals, etc. It's pretty informative. 
Anita


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## Bethel (Oct 4, 2008)

Anita Martin said:


> An accurate hay sample requires samples from several bales of hay, taken with a hay corer. Just any old handful of hay is really not representative of the whole bale, or the whole lot of hay. Outside stems and leaves are often leached of their content, which is why center cores are used. Dairy One will send envelopes for samples along with instructions and also sells the core, which is very expensive but a handyman can make one out of certain golf clubs. Their tests are fairly high too, at least for the one I need for foundered and insulin resistant horses, but I think they will do a dairy type sample for around $35 dollars. I'd love to find a sampling place around here that costed less. The website for dairy one also gives a lot of info about various hays, minerals, etc. It's pretty informative.
> Anita


 Anita Do you feed the Blue Seal Feed ??


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