# MFO Solution/CMPK or Calcium Gluconate?



## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

I can't get the actual CMPK so which one should I get in place of it? 

Here is what jeffers has listed
MFO Solution/CMPK 
Calcium Gluconate


&& How is it given and at what dosage?

Thanks


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

The MFO Solution/CMPK is pretty much the same as the CMPK you are looking for. It is given orally as a drench. The dosage for cattle is identical to that of original CMPK, so your goat dose should be the same also. I am assuming you can find the correct goat dose in the 101 section, or you can just do your usual dosage (I usually go with 60-80cc and repeat several hours later as needed). Realize that in acute cases oral dosage of CMPK is usually not fast enough to save the doe. You would have to go IV then. You would need a different product and would probably have to call your vet.
Calcium Gluconate has a slightly higher Ca content, but does not contain Magnesium, Phosphorus and Potassium, so I would choose the CMPK solution.
Marion


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

The oral dosing of calcium is not going to work in a crisis, which is what happens most frequently. You want to replace CMPK injectable with Calcium Gloconate injectable, following Sue Reiths articles on how to treat hypocalcemia....found in goatkeeping 101. Required reading for kidding season.


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## Ziggy (Nov 13, 2009)

just to back up Vicki's statement with a recent real life experience I will admit that I am prime example of oral administration of calcium not working. We lost our best Nubian because of it. I won't hesitate to do SQ or even IV if it happens again.


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## trnubian (Mar 12, 2008)

I also am unable to get the injectable CMPK. 
What I have done is if you suspect milk fever, dose with Calcium Gluconate for the first few hours, then if the doe is doing better use the MFO orally a couple times a day for a couple days. It has worked well for me on the 2 does that I have had that have gotten it. (I caught them really early.)


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## Qz Sioux (Feb 21, 2009)

The problem I have had with the recipe for Sue's CMPK is finding the ingredients as well as figuring out how to put them all together. I have tried several times to write down a "recipe" to follow, and just can't seem to come up with one. :/


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## Ziggy (Nov 13, 2009)

Why don't you just ask your vet for an RX - the CMPK injectable is very inexpensive - about $5.00 for 500 ml.


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## lonestrchic23 (Jan 7, 2011)

They are both cheap, grab both.

I've saved a doe using the calcium gluconate and wouldn't be without some sort of injectable calcium for a crisis situation. You can inject SubQ and then drench with the oral too if you felt it was necessary...... I've had to deal with an emergency without having an injectable calcium and won't be without it again.... Thankfully I have a bottle of CMPK injectable now, but I still have my calcium gluconate stash, and I keep a few bottles of the $5 injectable dextrose in my cabinet too.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Suzie I am not talking about reading her subout for the oral solution of CMPK, very honestly I don't think it even works for ruminants. I am talking about reading the hypocalcemia literature, understanding what is happening, and if your vet will not give you CMPK injectable order the calcium gluconate via jeffers (I believe TSC even carries it).


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Ziggy said:


> Why don't you just ask your vet for an RX - the CMPK injectable is very inexpensive - about $5.00 for 500 ml.


:yeahthat

Can't the calcium gluconate be injected SQ? It's not as good as the CMPK because it doesn't have the "MPK" portion thus the warnings that go with that, ie heart attack. But I think that comes from IV injection of calcium gluconate, not SQ. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

My question to both Amy and Amanda: Why can't you get the injectable? Will your vet not give it to you?

My very first year, first few months with goats, actually, I was afraid to ask my vet for "prescription" meds. Had a doe with hypocalcemia. I did use the oral makeup that is posted in GK101. Had to do a lot of math for it and it did help. She is with me today. But I had to give LOTS of it orally. The next year, I went to my vet with a huge list of meds I wanted to have on hand (and I was ready to provide reasonings why if he objected). He gave me everything, but the epenephrine.

Amy, re-reading your post, if you're ordering from Jeffers, is it something you want on hand or is it something you need NOW?


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

The risk of heart attack is only when dosed too fast, so only when used as an IV directly in the vein. The calcium can be a huge strain on the heart so when doing an IV don't hang the bottle or keep it high in the air, instead keep it low, just over or at heart level and make sure it takes a few minutes to empty the bottle. Risk of heart attack is also bigger the later you are in the process, so react quickly to a doe with milkfever. I wonder, Ziggy, if your vet (who, I am sorry, I think made a very big mistake with your doe when he decided not to do the IV) was scared to do the IV because he didn't know how long the doe had been in this state. Did she walk into the vet's office or was she down? Years ago a rancher asked us to come help his fresh (beef) cow that was down with milkfever. We were VERY young dairymen in those days and somehow quickly became the 'go-to guys' for every animal ailment in the county, so we rushed to the cow and gave her calcium by IV. She was very weak and we asked the rancher when he found her and just as he said 'This cow's been going backwards for the past two days' and we realized this was not going to work anymore she died. Learned then and there to ask questions first before rushing out....


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

I have seen the oral calcium mixture work but if your doe is already really bad she might not be able to swallow and in that case, only an injection or IV will work, obviously.


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## Ziggy (Nov 13, 2009)

Marion - the vet (who incidentally is a she) was not at the office and the vet tech would not give the IV. She walked onto the trailer on her own but when I got to the vets office she couldn't get up. It was less than 24 hours after kidding and less than 12 hours after she started acting "off". I also believe and so does my other vet - he believes that IV may have saved her. That is why I am now prepared with everything on hand. I did not have it on hand then so didn't have much choice but to wait for the vet that night.


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## Ziggy (Nov 13, 2009)

My other vet has told me that he has seen cows who were down on the ground and barely breathing recover almost instantly from IV - such that in 30 minutes you would have no idea that they had almost been dead.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Ziggy it is the same on goat...but, they then send you home with oral meds including propylene glycol....where with cows she comes home with the IV bag sticky taped to her neck. It's hard for new folks in goats to get passed their 'pet' mentality with their goats. So the doe goes home, fails again because it's a long haul getting over hypocalcemia (especially when vets won't even call it that) so with the deficiency still there, she relapses and dies. Or one dose is given subq, you go to bed because she is getting up, dead in the morning.

It would have to be a very mild case for oral preparations to work, and since anyone can give calcium gluconate subq, there is no reason to be giving it orally.


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## trnubian (Mar 12, 2008)

My vet will not give me any because they acted like I was crazy to ask for it. They did not even know what it was... They use the Calcium Gluconate IV if they have a problem. My vet still treats milk fever goats as ketotic goats...


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## Ziggy (Nov 13, 2009)

I agre 100 percent Vicki. That is why my medicine cabinet is better equipped now.


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

I'm lucky. My small animal vet is the retired former state vet. He knows I know what I am doing and I am not one to abused drugs. I ask, he orders for me. I will be very sad when he retires in another year or so.


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## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

So I need the Calcium Gluconate because it's given by injection and works better in a crisis right? 

I am making my list for Jeffers and I want something on hand, just in case. 

Thanks!


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## trnubian (Mar 12, 2008)

Faithful Crown Nubians said:


> So I need the Calcium Gluconate because it's given by injection and works better in a crisis right?
> 
> I am making my list for Jeffers and I want something on hand, just in case.
> 
> Thanks!


Yes


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

trnubian said:


> My vet will not give me any because they acted like I was crazy to ask for it. They did not even know what it was... They use the Calcium Gluconate IV if they have a problem. My vet still treats milk fever goats as ketotic goats...


Perhaps you could educate them on the need for a balance in minerals with the calcium, thus the "MPK" along with the Ca. Read up and make your case.


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## trnubian (Mar 12, 2008)

Cindy, yes that would be a good idea. I can try anyway. They are just now adding another vet to the clinic so maybe I should try again. Maybe they would be more willing. I asked if they could come pull blood on my does this year for pregnancy testing and she the vet tech didn't know that that was an option. They hadn't heard of biotracking. This is what I am working with. 

They did say they were pushing for an ultrasound machine.

They really are good people and I know they are really good with cattle and horses and pigs and sheep, just sometimes I wonder...


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

trnubian said:


> Cindy, yes that would be a good idea. I can try anyway. They are just now adding another vet to the clinic so maybe I should try again. Maybe they would be more willing. I asked if they could come pull blood on my does this year for pregnancy testing and she the vet tech didn't know that that was an option. They hadn't heard of biotracking. This is what I am working with.
> 
> They did say they were pushing for an ultrasound machine.
> 
> They really are good people and I know they are really good with cattle and horses and pigs and sheep, just sometimes I wonder...


Come on, really? They didn't know you could pull blood for pregnancy testing?

Either get another vet practice or you seriously have you're work cut out for you trying to educate them. The vet tech? Ok. The vet? Sure he/she knows you can pull blood for preg testing.


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## Ziggy (Nov 13, 2009)

I really have to think that the problem is because you were speaking to the vet tech and not the vet!


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## trnubian (Mar 12, 2008)

Ziggy said:


> I really have to think that the problem is because you were speaking to the vet tech and not the vet!


You are probably right. although, the one I talked to has been here for 10 years or more so you would think she would know if they did...


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