# Will I ever be able to get milk from this udder?



## Qz Sioux (Feb 21, 2009)

Last year this doe freshened, but lost the baby. Some may remember my posts. I "milked" her for a couple of months and finally gave up. She never would give more than a cup and a half daily with 2 milkings. I bred her back in October and she freshened 3-20 and blessed me with 2 beautiful doelings. I still can't get more than 2 cups out of her, and that was yesterday evening after keeping her away from the does all day. I tried to milk her at 7 am this morning, and got about a tablespoon out of her. I tried again about noon, and got another tablespoon out of her. Her dam was rated as an 85VVEE (don't know what that stands for :/ ) and Ray said he was getting 10 #'s of milk from her dam as a 2nd freshner at 2 weeks fresh. I am posting a picture of her udder from the rear and side for your viewing. Maybe someone can help.

I did talk to Lucille Garner yesterday about her, and she thinks that maybe I need to wait a week before milking her? I am raising the kids on the mom as does Lucille. Any help appreciated  :help2

Side view:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Rear view:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I hope the images are not too big
Thanks


----------



## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Hhhmmmm. Not a lot in there is there? 

Is she CAE-? What was her diet pre-kidding and what is it now? Please include grain info, hay, alfalfa, minerals, etc.


----------



## Dana (Dec 7, 2009)

If both the doeling are nursing on her, then maybe that's all she's got. I have had some goats who don't have a lot of extra milk after they feed their kids. They are just not big producers. Don't give up yet, tho. If she just freshened, she should be upping her milk still.


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Well she doesn't have much glandular development to produce milk with. I would say you better plan on supplementing those kids. There should be a mass of firm tissue that is plainly visible where the milk is produced up at the top under her pelvic arch. What kind of care does she get? I cannot remember what you told us last year.
Calorie intake makes all the difference in milk production. 
She is either hormonally incorrect or she is undernourished.
You want to see glands or there is nothing to make milk. At 3 days fresh she should be very full looking for sure.
Lee


----------



## Qz Sioux (Feb 21, 2009)

Okay, I should have included this in my original post so here goes...

Feed:

Fresh water daily and buckets are kept clean (if I won't drink the water, I won't let them drink it either)

She gets alfalfa pellets free choice (the green bucket you see in the picture is filled twice daily, more if needed)

Coastal hay is free choice, but she rarely touches it.

She gets 2 cups of meat goat pellets when on the stand, which is 3 times daily. When she was not in milk, I gave her 2 cups of meat goat pellets 2 times daily off the stand.

She has free range of 5 acres to browse on with lots of new weed growth, yupon brush, new fallen oak leafs, and plenty of blackberry bushes all over the place

She just de-weeded my 50x50 garden this past weekend with plenty of new blackberry growth

She was wormed with Moxidectin (Quest) the day she freshened

CDT shot 30 days before freshening, and regular wormings

She better not have CAE as she came from a clean herd and is not around other goats, except for negative tested does that came after her and my buck.

I know I'm forgetting something, but that is what I can come up with off the top of my head =/ She was HUGE before giving birth, but has lost a lot of that since freshening. I'm thinking of upping her feed on the stand to just about whatever she will eat during that time. Her babies are quite healthy but not huge.... picture below...Oh, one thing I did forget, you can see the mineral and baking soda feeders in the barn behind the kids. They are kept cleaned out and full. I change the minerals and soda every 2 weeks and wash the feeders.

Babies 3 days old:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## tlcnubians (Jan 21, 2011)

Hi Suzie - 85 VVEE means her dam was linear appraised and received an overall score of 85 out of 100 with Very Good General Appearance; Very Good Dairy Character; Excellent Body Capacity and Excellent Mammary. It really doesn't say whether she milks or not, or how much she might produce. If she's nursing her kids you will probably not get a lot of milk out of her. If you were to bottle raise the kids, she might give up after a day or so and let you have all the milk that she thinks she needs to be saving for the kids. If she is a second freshener, I would expect her to milk at least between 1-2 quarts of milk in the morning and 1-2 quarts more at night when she's not feeding her kids, and for me that would really be on the "you'll be leaving if you don't pick up the pace" end of the scale. Our second fresheners average 8-10 lbs per day by the time they've been in milk for a week, but we do not dam raise our kids.

As far as feeding her, and I know you probably won't be able to get this right now, but at some point you might want to try and purchase some hybrid sudan (haygrazer) hay instead of the coastal bermuda. Our goats like to use coastal for bedding, not eating. The milk records we have owe a lot to our goats' consumption of sorghum hay known as hybrid sudan or haygrazer. Lucille may be able to give you the names of people who sell it in the Waller area. I'm also not a big fan of alfalfa pellets, even though I know a lot of people feed them to their goats. When we feel the need for alfalfa, we feed alfalfa hay. Otherwise our does are fed approximately four pounds a day of a mixture of an 18% lactation pellet, beet pulp shreds, Horse & Mule sweet feed and crimped oats (equal parts of each). Twice each day they eat about one pound of the mixture while they're being milked, and another pound each with the herd after milking. All this is purchased at Producer's Co-Op in Bryan, probably less than a half-hour drive from where you live.

What are this doe's bloodlines? The kids look well nourished. Do they seem to spend a lot of time trying to nurse the doe? Do they cry like they're hungry? 

Caroline


----------



## mamatomany (Aug 7, 2008)

Call me crazy, but she looks a little uneven to me? Have you had her milk tested?


----------



## Qz Sioux (Feb 21, 2009)

Caroline, like I said, Ray said her dam was a great producer. I bottle raised the doe and buck, and the day I brought them home I joined this board. I read everything I could and did just as Vicki said. I wanted the best for these goats. I wanted Nubians forever and when I was blessed in getting them, I wasn't going to do them wrong.

Saada (Sp?) is in both the bloodlines. Our house burned down just after I got the goats, and I have to say, registration was not even thought about until she freshened last year. I can get papers, however, I can't read the darn tatoo in her ear! We have tried everything to try to get it, but have had no luck. We tried the flashlight behind the ear (in the daytime and again at dark) I have tried a magnifying glass, still cannot get the number. Anyway, I know that Saada was in the bloodlines of both this doe and the buck she was bred to. As I said, Ray said this doe's dam was producing 10 pounds daily at 2 weeks fresh. This doe was a second freshening doe.

I buy my feed from Producer's in Bryan as they are a kind of "one stop shop" on most of the stuff I need. I also use Tractor supply for immediate things like syringes and buckets and such. Alfalfa hay here is so high in price and you never know what you will get. I just did as Vicki suggested and feed the pellets.

I won't cull this doe. She means too much to me and we are quite bonded (she comes in my house :blush regularly). I would love to be able to get milk from her, but if she continues to give me good kids, then there is no reason to get rid of her. I won't know how well her doelings will produce until next year, but I'm getting a new buck from Lucille that will be bred to all of my does, except the ND who will be bred to a registered MiniMancha that I will be bringing home soon. 

I am at a loss though since my son and I (who are the only ones that REALLY want goat milk) can't seem to get any. I don't know if I need to try to save up and buy a doe in milk or try another breed. I just like the Nubians due to their long ears, sweet personality and milk fat content. I have to say though, the LaMancha's are quite cute with no ears, just not sure about their personality or milk production.

The kids don't nurse all the time. They nurse like "normal" kids and they don't seem to be hungry. The only thing disappointing to me about these does is that I don't feel their ears are long enough =/ But they are lovebugs and are not shy of me at all. I have considered bottling them, but if she doesn't produce, or give ME any milk, then what? I don't want her to dry up before these kids can get weaned.


----------



## Qz Sioux (Feb 21, 2009)

mamatomany said:


> Call me crazy, but she looks a little uneven to me? Have you had her milk tested?


Yeah, she is...only because I tried to get some out of her on that one side before I took the picture.


----------



## tlcnubians (Jan 21, 2011)

She may be saving most of her milk for her kids. Once she raises them, then she may give you enough for household use. If you want her milk before the kids are 12 weeks old, you can pull the kids and raise them on whole cow's milk.

People who have LaManchas love them. D'Ann Binder at Fairwoods at the end of Reid's Prairie raises lovely and productive LaManchas. You might want to contact her and go for a visit.

We have an active and friendly local goat club that you might want to check out . . . South Central Texas Goat Club (www.sctexgoatclub.org). We just had a meeting at Producer's this past Saturday so our next meeting won't be until May 19th, but that meeting will be held at the Field Store JP's Office at FM 1488 and Field Store Road. The following Saturday, May 26th, we'll be holding our annual dairy goat show at the Washington County Fairgrounds in Brenham. Stop by and visit if you get a chance!


----------



## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

I'm assuming that her kids are with her all the time. Do you have a place where you can separate them from her just overnight and then get a pic of her in the morning before you put them back together? That way, you'll know if she's actually making milk and even have a better idea of how much. It may be that the kids are taking it all. Some people will do that routinely and milk the doe first thing in the morning, then have them with their kids all day, separating them again at night. That way, they might be able to get a bit of milk for themselves, too, if the doe will let down (she might not, and can hold a lot of it back for her kids).


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

This doe has a hormone issue. She is not hooked up correctly so to speak.
Some of her parts are not functioning correctly to get milk production rolling. 
It's her endocrine system.
Before the supply and demand part of lactation - milk removal stimulating production- there is a cycle involving multiple hormones that initiates milk production. If she is not producing a proper compliment of these hormones she will never get to the supply and demand cycle.
Since she birthed normally she has oxytocin but she may be lacking in production of the rest of the compliment...estridiol-and other jazz I cannot recall. It is a complex feedback mechanism and only needs one component to be off for the whole system to be whacked.

She does not have cae with that flaccid udder and she does not need more or different food.
She is hormonally incorrect.
This is the second year this has happened.
It is the doe not the caretaker.
If she was saving milk her udder would look like it. There are no glands and there is no milk...simple.
She is not hiding it somewhere else :rofl
I would keep track of the kid's tummies and make sure they are full all the time.
If she does not increase production as they age then you will have to supplement.

as a side note....
I don't know where people get such a bad impression of coastal but our hay is professionally raised by a full time hay farmer and is 3 varieties of improved coastal grown and harvested to make extremely palatable bulk that tests very well and produces plenty of milk and healthy goats that grow out huge kids. I have FF with close to 20 pound weight gains on twins this first month on crappy ole coastal. That is milk and that is good rich nutritious milk for a ff Nubian to build close to 40 pounds of goat in a month.

Lee


----------



## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

Quality varies with coastal. Probably due to improper baling techniques. We always found the really nice stuff from the professional hay guys to be really expensive.


----------



## LSP Farm (Dec 4, 2011)

Lee, what is the cp in your coastal? My hay man has his tested every year but I can never remember what it is.. I'm wanting to say around 18% on his. But everything I read says like 14 ish..


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Yes we tested out at 18 previous to the drought-last batch was irrigated and a bit lower. 
We pay 6.00 a bale. A steal in my opinion for the quality. It is beautifully managed and the goats act like it is candy.


----------



## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

Very nice price!


----------



## LSP Farm (Dec 4, 2011)

Why does everything on line say it's so much lower? I think I paid $5.00 a bale last year. I've been buying from him for almost 20 years so he's real good about keeping his prices reasonable with regular customers. He's a fanatic when it comes to fertilizing, weed control and replanting his fields when needed. I don't mind one bit about paying more for quality. Why Does it get such a bad wrap??


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

I believe it has such a bad reputation because so many people just bale up whatever happens to grow and call it coastal. 

Apologies Suzie for hijacking.
Lee


----------



## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

:yeahthat


----------



## Rambar Ranch (Oct 25, 2007)

The sire of this doe is SAADA LORD ORIAN and the dam is Rambar Ranch Phoebe for her pedigree. Both sires dam and this doe dam were very good milkers. This does dam had a beatiful globular udder, not sure why this daughter is looking the way it is. Her other daughters all had good udders, but didn't milk alot till their 2nd freshenings. I have photos of the dam and her udder if somone can help me post them.

Ray


----------



## Qz Sioux (Feb 21, 2009)

buckrun said:


> This doe has a hormone issue. She is not hooked up correctly so to speak.
> Some of her parts are not functioning correctly to get milk production rolling.
> It's her endocrine system.
> Before the supply and demand part of lactation - milk removal stimulating production- there is a cycle involving multiple hormones that initiates milk production. If she is not producing a proper compliment of these hormones she will never get to the supply and demand cycle.
> ...


So what can I do to get her hormones to level out or is there nothing I can do? I will definitely keep tabs on these babies! Just because I bottle raised Jill and the buck, does not mean that I will stop my practices as I want the best for all of my goats. I will bottle supplement if I need to.

I'm not wanting to have a full fledged dairy or anything, I just want a few milkers so I can have milk daily and if I'm lucky some cheese once in a while.

I do know that not all does will be milkers, as I have one that I wouldn't even try to milk. I do know that I want to improve my herd (hence the buck I will get from Lucille), but I cannot spend thousands of dollars doing it. I do not know all the lines and which ones are the best. I did know that I needed to make sure that CAE was not a problem in the herd. I will be testing all of mine this year because I don't want it.

***Stacy, I will separate the babies from her tonight and see what happens in the morning. I just don't want her to dry up and not be able to mother them. Saying this, I know that one night isn't going to happen.

On the hay issue, I am paying 7.50 a bale, but it is "pretty" hay. Not sure really on the cp, but it smells nice, and the other goats will eat it well. This doe has never been much of a hay eater. She much prefers to be let out to browse around the property and she does that well. She doesn't stay long in one place, unless there are blackberry bushes and then she will hang there for a long time.

Thanks =D

PS. As I was writing this, I see that Ray posted too. Thank you Ray! And seeing as you didn't milk much until the 2nd freshenings, I'm wondering if I need to consider this her true first freshening since she didn't raise a baby last year or will this still be considered her 2nd?


----------



## Qz Sioux (Feb 21, 2009)

Rambar Ranch said:


> The sire of this doe is SAADA LORD ORIAN and the dam is Rambar Ranch Phoebe for her pedigree. Both sires dam and this doe dam were very good milkers. This does dam had a beatiful globular udder, not sure why this daughter is looking the way it is. Her other daughters all had good udders, but didn't milk alot till their 2nd freshenings. I have photos of the dam and her udder if somone can help me post them.
> 
> Ray


Ray, if you can email me the photos, I can post them for you. [email protected]


----------



## LSP Farm (Dec 4, 2011)

I'm sorry for hijacking too  
I wonder if there is a way to test hormones on a goat w/o breaking the bank?
Just out of curiosity, do you keep water in the stall at night with her? And is there any way the kids could be sneaking in some nursing through a fence or something at night? I know some of my does with babies on them really hold back on giving up milk. But like someone said earlier, she can't be hiding that much milk.


----------



## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

I looked at her sire's pedigree because I'm very familiar with Saada goats. There is one buck in his pedigree, Saada Frodo of the Ring Quest who was the sire of a doe my friend bought. Eve was also never a really good milker and neither were the two daughters I bought from my friend. Evette had a very correct shaped udder. but she didn't produce alot of milk. Her half sister, Summer didn't make much milk either. I have Evette's daughter, Grayce who is a better producer than her dam and other does who go back to Eve's sons. They milk OK. There is a good chance that if your doelings' sire is out of a milky dam, they may do better than their dam. The does who I see Saada bring to shows are good producers, however I've heard that some of the does they sell do not produce as much. 
Eve also did not have really long ears. Some of Saada's goats don't. I use their genetics for the other lovely things I want in my goats such as shape and attachment of the udder as well as good general appearance and dairy character.


----------



## Bella Star (Oct 27, 2007)

She doesn't look like a big doe and those kids look great! I would pull the kids at night and see what she looked like in the morning before the kids nurse to evaluate her udder. One kid may suck more than the other kid on the other side and therefore makes one side lopsided. She does look like she needs copper. Not all does produce a gallon a day . To me she just looks like what she eats is going to the kids. However with her bloodline she should be a good producer.


----------



## Natural Beauty Farm (Feb 10, 2009)

I was going to ask about copper too..... 

and did I read this right she freshened 3/20? There is no way I would be separating those kids so much right now from her if I was dam raising, I would want them to get all the milk she is producing. Why can it simply be that she has not fully come into milk yet, it had only been ONE day when you tried to test her volume right.....

I too expect milk out of my girls, this year has been strange though, I also have some Top Ten Milkers here, one freshened this year with hardly an udder, a week later she had to be milked 3X a day to keep up. No way I would have been calling her out. The weather has been weird, worms are already a problem in some herds, hay last year was so-so, the girls paid for it all winter in some areas.

I personally think you are right, last year the milk was a gift, this is her FF year.


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

My 2 yr old FF doe that freshened 03/15 looked like this up until about two days ago. She barely milked 20 oz in her first two milkings. Then only about 1# per milking. She is now at 2.5# per milking. If there were kids on her, her udder would be empty all the time too. :/ I have never had a doe freshen with no udder, but she did. I have figured out what my does milk and what their kids eat (I bottle feed) and it comes out almost exactly the same. There would be no milk for me if I didn't buy store milk to replace what I swipe.


----------



## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

What do you see on this doe that makes her look copper deficient?


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Ray don't be offended. Every line produces lesser animals.
This is about the randomness of genetics and nothing you had any reason to expect nor could you do anything about it.

You must have well developed glandular tissue in place to produce milk. She only has the reservoir tissue.
I would suggest reading some articles on the relationship between udder morphology and milk production as well as about hormonal involvement in lactation. You can affect the cistern capacity by milking more frequently but only if the glands are there to make the milk in the first place. 

Lee


----------



## tlcnubians (Jan 21, 2011)

Ray - were you the breeder of this doe? If so, Suzie, you can get replacement papers from Ray if she hasn't already been registered and transferred, or if she was already transferred to you, you should be able to get a duplicate registration from ADGA for $4-$6 (depending on whether you're an ADGA member or not). Our house burned down in 2000 and I had to replace the papers for every goat we owned, a fairly expensive undertaking, on top of everything else! So I do understand.

Lee - the only thing I have against Coastal Bermuda hay is that our goats won't eat it. I know it's good hay, in fact, our show horses thrived on it, but for our goat herd it's haygrazer all the way with an occasional flake of alfalfa thrown in as a treat. Our goats have been known to grudgingly eat round bales of mixed grass hay that we used to bale ourselves from our coastal field that had been mostly overgrown by Bahia grass, but then we had the place cross-fenced into smaller pastures and we don't cut hay on it anymore. I'm not sure I agree with the hormonal theory about this doe, she just doesn't appear to have much foreudder extension right now. From the rear, her udder looks empty, like the kids have been nursing on her. She may look totally different in another couple of weeks. I do agree that if she aborted last year and never really came into milk she should probably be considered a first freshener, even though technically she has freshened for a second time this year. 

I'm not sure how it can be extrapolated from the two pictures provided that this doe is copper deficient . . . she looks like a strawberry roan to me, a color that is pretty common in our Texas-bred Nubians.

BTW - Lucille's buck, TLC-Farms Samson's Titus, is out of SGCH TLC-Farms Sam's Belle Starr 1*M (VEEE 90) by an AI son of Kastdemur's LE Exacta. You should get some excellent milking genetics from any buck kid you get from Lucille that is sired by Titus - Belle had a 220 day lactation last year that produced a total of 2140 lbs of milk. The three does in our herd sired by the Exacta son that I have, Kastdemur's Next Key, have achieved their milking stars as well.


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

http://www.goatbiology.com/animations/lactationanat.html


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

I hope everyone will take advantage of the great work done in all 3 of the presentations at the link above to help bring home the understanding that nothing about lactation occurs without the proper hormone compliment. Thanks so many millions of times to Karin Christensen


----------



## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

tlcnubians said:


> People who have LaManchas love them.


Because they are wonderful.


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

She just freshened 3 days ago, the kids are obviously doing well, just let her milk them, quit taking them away from her. Besides that the kids can't go overnight at this age away from mom, they need to be fed at least every 6 hours. Now if she is milking this dismally, and you can tell from the photo she has no capacity to the udder....but you also have to remember because of the non productive first lactation she really is a 1st freshener.

All bloodlines have culls, we have no idea when we sell kids who they will turn into. I would leave her be, milk her out completely twice a day after I saw the kids nurse, and then at 8 weeks fresh I would take the kids away for 12 hours and see how she is milking. I also would try to get the kids used to taking a bottle so that if she truly isn't producing than they will be used to a bottle.

And lets get real, getting a star other than at a one day milktest is pretty meaningless, it tells you nothing at all about how well a doe milks....any goat should be able to get her star it is a VERY minimal amount of milk. Now make top 10 in a catagory, yep you have a really good milker there....but not coupled with an LA score or a CH, she can also have a really bad udder.


Take a deep breath and leave her be.


----------



## tlcnubians (Jan 21, 2011)

"And lets get real, getting a star other than at a one day milktest is pretty meaningless, it tells you nothing at all about how well a doe milks....any goat should be able to get her star it is a VERY minimal amount of milk."

Sorry to hijack this thread just a bit, but I have to disagree with Vicki about the above statement . . . Getting a star means the animal has been on milk test, which can also mean that the person who owns the doe(s) wants their milk production to be reflected on their publicly accessed records where people can see exactly how much milk each doe produces on her monthly test and what that adds up to over her lactation. Additionally, the does that I mentioned in my post? Two of the four did get their original stars on one day milk tests. The stats on the other two . . . Darby produced 2480 pounds of milk in 268 days and Tune produced 1870 pounds of milk in 232 days in order to receive their milk stars. If milk is of importance in one's breeding program, having production records behind the animals one is interested in breeding, breeding to or purchasing can be very useful, just as linear appraisal scores are useful to see the strong and weak conformation points of particular animals. And for those who have cheesemaking businesses, being able to see the amount of milk components (protein and butterfat) can also be very useful.


----------



## Qz Sioux (Feb 21, 2009)

Update on this doe...

I have pulled the kids (a week ago) since the dam has had major scours. It just runs out of her. I have separated her from the rest of the herd and the kids to give her some space of her own. I have been treating her with her own free choice minerals and baking soda, she is in a pasture by herself with plenty of free range graze/browse, She gets 2 lbs. sheep/goat pellets from Producers 2 x daily and free choice alfalfa pellets. I just recently found out from Lucille (my mentor) that adding 1:6 horse and mule to pellets is good, so that is what I'm going with. The pellets are NOT medicated.

This doe has lost a lot of weight, and I milked her out (on the ground) and am leaving her to dry off. I have given her the tiny Imodium pills once a day, every other day 3 times. I did give her a bit of pepto, but will switch over to Kaolin Pectin next week if needed. She was wormed the day of freshening (Quest), and I wormed her again last Saturday with Safeguard. I am also in the middle of a treatment of Sulmet (2 days left to go). I put the Sulmet and Imodium (when I use the Imodium) in Gatorade. She is drinking a LOT of water, so I know she is getting plenty of that. I check her often during the day for dehydration, which I have feared since noticing the scours, and she isn't dehydrating.

Today, I noticed that she is eating much better because she is browsing much more than before, her poop has substance to it with a few soft pellets in it. This makes me feel better. Is there anything else I need or should be doing?

Her kids are taking their bottles like troopers! They are gaining weight and growing and of course they are becoming the little pests that all bottle babies become :lol .

I'd like to get her well and fat again so that I can breed her to our new herd sire. Plus I will be getting another doeling from Lucille next month that I want to try to show.


----------



## Golden Delta Alpines (Mar 8, 2012)

Glad to hear the babies are doing good. They are so cute!


----------



## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

You wormed her a month ago with Quest? Why safeguard now? Can you have a fecal run? If it is barber pole, you are going to need another round of Cydectin/Quest. Did you get the dose for Quest from GK101? My Texas vet put me on 1cc per 10 lbs Cydectin pour on; he was advised that by A&M. That's a little higher than what Vicki has in GK101, but I've stuck with it since it has worked for me.


----------



## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

For scours, I use psyllium. Usually it's used for constipation by adding bulk to the fecal material, but for scours it works great by soaking up all the excess fluid in the feces and returning it to normal consistency. It also helps to push any irritants along through the system and out the other end.


----------



## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

I thought immodium was dangerous to goats?


----------



## Qz Sioux (Feb 21, 2009)

I used immodium only because I had seen others had used it from here. I didn't have anything else at the time. I now have Kaolin Pectin, and will always keep that on hand now. 

I wormed her a month ago when she freshened, as you should always worm the day of freshening. I wormed with Quest because I don't use Cydectin. It is warm now and I want to keep my wormers rotated that is why I wormed again with Safeguard, a different wormer. I used to have a great calendar that I used to tell me what wormers to use, when, but I no longer have it. I guess I need to do more research on that again. No fecal has been done, but all will be done this weekend since it is time to do everyone. Yes, I used the dosage from Vicki on GK101 transfered into the Quest dosage.

I don't know where I would find psyllium. Is it a feed store product or do I buy the stuff somewhere else?

Her twins are growing like weeds and I can't believe how much they have grown in just the little time I have been bottling them.

This doe is my favorite girl and I will do what it takes to get her better. She is improving, but I know she has a ways to go. She will usually take whatever I give her with little fuss. She and I have bonded, and she will still come lay down next to me and chew her cud while I'm out sitting and watching everyone.


----------



## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

I hope I'm speaking right. I believe Vicki's advice is to deworm according to what worm is of concern rather than rotating. For barber pole Cydectin or Quest (same thing) is the dewormer you will need. Safeguard isn't very effective. I use it only for tapes. 

You can get psyllium in the pharmacy I think - with the fiber products.


----------



## PrairieTrail45 (Nov 28, 2011)

They also sell psyllium for horses. It is used to help clear sand out of their stomach to prevent colic. It comes in a bucket or a smaller tub like they use for other horse supplements.


----------



## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

I am glad your goat is hanging in there and doing a little better and that is wonderful about the babies. 
Maybe I misunderstood about the immodium, I only mentioned it might be a problem because I thought I had read that it could actually kill a ruminant.


----------



## Laverne (Apr 4, 2010)

Sounds like it could be Liverfluke, which may not show on a fecal.


----------



## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

Liverfluke will need Ivomec Plus, right?


----------



## Golden Delta Alpines (Mar 8, 2012)

How is your goat doing today?


----------



## Qz Sioux (Feb 21, 2009)

The doe is doing much better today. She took the "girls" out with her to graze, and let them nurse, even though they are still getting bottles. Her poop is looking MUCH better, and I finished her Sulmet dosage today. She is also eating much better than she was. She was eating baking soda like it was going out of style before, now she isn't as interested in it. The babies will be done with their Sulmet in a couple more days. 

I haven't been able to fecal today, but still have plans to get it done this weekend. I still have a final to take by tomorrow, but should still have time to get everything done this weekend. If not, it will be early this next week.


----------



## Golden Delta Alpines (Mar 8, 2012)

Glad to hear that!


----------

