# Selling Milk??



## M.Nivens

Hi, I hope that I am posting this in the right place.. I wanted to get input/advice on selling raw milk. Our dairy goats are mainly for milk/cheese/yogurt for our family and we share with extended family/friends also. We dont really advertise to sell but occasionally I am approached by someone who wants me to sell them raw milk. I would like to do this, I know that we are lucky to be able to have our own source and I like the idea of helping out people who want/need goat milk but cannot keep their own goats (not to mention it would be nice to offset the feed bill a bit).However I have read so many articles lately about "the evils" of raw milk and people being investigated for selling it that it makes me nervous.. My goats are healthy, and I am careful in handling the milk (as I said, it is my family mainly using it) but I just dont know if it is worth it?? I just wanted to get thoughts/opinions on the subject, maybe I am worrying for nothing..BTW, I live in AR, and it is legal to sell up to 100 gallons of goat milk from the farm, so it hasnt been a concern before but it is my understanding that some of the dairies being investigated currently were operating legally..


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## M.Nivens

To clarify I guess what I am looking for is feedback from people who do sell raw milk and are there any precautions that you take (waivers, etc)??


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## Sondra

sold for years and many people here do so you are very lucky in that your live in AR. just make sure you are super clean, have a clean herd and cool your milk down quickly. Keep in the coldest part of frig too.


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## Faye Farms

If you live in a state where it is legal I would go for it as well. Just take all the regular safe milk handling precautions. We sell LOTS of raw milk (cow) here in KS. I've probably read all the same stuff you have. Does it concern me...yes. Is it going to stop me....no. I guess it all lies where you comfort level is.


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## Rose

I do sell milk here in Missouri, and I don't worry, but I don't advertise.

In Texas, I sell milk to a friend for her soap making.


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## M.Nivens

Thanks for the responses.. My origional plan when I got our first goats several years ago was to sell a bit to help off set feed costs but I wasnt really thinking about any liability issues at that time. I really dont advertise, most people come from word of mouth.. and I do usually give people printed instructions on how to pastuerize at home, then I figure it is in their hands. Not that I am not very careful with the handling, cooling, etc.. This is first and foremost for my family's use so I am not selling anything that I am not comfortable giving to my own children.. I have been following the story about the dairy in MO and it kinda freaked me out cause it seems like they were doing everything by the book but are still having issues.. Maybe just being paranoid!!


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## hsmomof4

If it's the same dairy that I'm thinking of, they weren't doing everything by the book, not that you might not have problems even if you do. In MO, you are allowed to deliver milk, but only if it's been previously arranged. You can't go to a milk drop-off and bring extra milk for someone who just happens to show up and wants to buy milk. If they had been doing things by the book, they wouldn't have sold milk to an under-cover agent who showed up at their drop point, which is what got them into trouble.


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## M.Nivens

Gotcha. In AR you can sell up to 100 gallons a month of raw goat milk from the farm. No delivery, and no cow milk. I really dont get the restrictions on the amount or why no cows but it really doesnt affect me anyway (Dont see selling that much in the near future and dont have a milk cow).. 
Thanks again for the input!


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## Bernice

Michelle...when we lived in Arkansas and had our dairy we did sell milk every now and then to others, we had it covered under our farm insurance in case something happened (you just never know). Also we went by, "the book" as far as requirements meaning don't add recently wormed goats to the milk pool, diseased, etc. Because we also shipped milk we had records on somatic cell, butterfat, etc that were helpful. The hard part is you never know when someone is going to have a problem, cover the bases and your butt and thats all you can do. Our milk customers would come at milking time to get fresh milk so I would remind them about flash cooling it and keeping it in glass containers. 

I never got the no cow either. Is that cow dairy near Marshall that sold milk in those nice 1/2 gallon and gallon glass jugs still in business? I used to buy their milk for the glass jugs for our personal customers when i ran out of glass jugs.


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## Rose

Morningland Dairy WAS doing everything by the book.

The folks who delivered to a parking lot were not.

Two different Missouri situations.


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## hsmomof4

Alice, is Morningland the one that had stuff test contaminated out of state but no contamination could be found at the dairy itself? I wasn't referring to them (I don't know that I realized that dairy was in MO) but to the other one you mentioned.


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## Faye Farms

Morningland is the dairy that sells raw milk cheese and they had sold cheese to the Rawsome food coop in CA. Rawsome was raided and all food was confiscated including Morningland cheese. From everything I have read Morningland was doing everything by the book. They just got caught up in the raw food witch hunt. It makes me sick. We know the family enough to know that they are good hard working folks. They don't deserve what is happening to them. Here's their explanation of everything. http://morninglanddairy.webs.com/recallinformation.htm


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## NubianSoaps.com

If you are keeping up with this on their blog, even their own tests thay ran had about 1/2 the samples come back with listeria....I am not sure, but I don't think that is a good thing. Vicki


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## Faye Farms

From what I understand, it sounds like there was a goof up with the taking and handling of the first batch of samples done by an employee. When the officials came a swabbed everything, all those new samples came back clear. Even if some of the cheese was truly contaminated I think they are being mistreated. Seriously, destroying 6 months worth of production, being shut down. When any of the big guys have a recall I don't see them having to go back a destroy EVERYTHING they produced in such a large timeframe. They keep those factories running.


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## hsmomof4

And usually, the big guys don't have a recall unless somebody gets sick. No random raids at the local grocery store to confiscate, say, Kraft cheese, toss it in a cooler with no ice, test it for disease a few weeks later.


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## M.Nivens

Faye Farms said:


> From everything I have read Morningland was doing everything by the book. They just got caught up in the raw food witch hunt.


That was my concern I guess.. If EVERYTHING was by the book and there were no violations, then do I even want to risk selling milk even if I do everything by the book also...Hope that makes sense..I have read about the ML dairy situation, although I was not specifically referring to it in my origional post..


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## nightskyfarm

You are in AR and not MO where it is perfectly legal to sell that 100 gallons of milk off the farm. If you do this by "their" book, you should be fine at least for the time being.


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## carlidoe

I wish Texas would change their laws on raw milk sells. It really ticks me off. I just do not understand how the government can tell people what kind of milk to drink. You can get salmonella and ecoli from the produce and meat market sections of your local grocery store just as easy as you can from raw milk, if not easier with all the hands it passes through, ick. Since sells take place at the producers farm the prospective buyers should be able to decide for themselves whether or not the farm is clean. 
Does anyone know where I can effectively complain about this topic? 
Do any of you here in Texas sell via herdshare? If so, would you be willing to share your forms?


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## NubianSoaps.com

Carli herdshare forms are meaningless, it's very simply against the law to sell raw milk for human consumption off your farm. Pet selling now has a license that means you have to put food coloring in your milk. So sell milk to soapers. They can't regulate that and what the person does with the milk when it leaves your farm is no longer legally your problem. There isn't one person who has ever been fined or turned in or gone to jail or had their animals confiscated for selling milk from their farm, in fact if you want to go grade A the local inspector will stand in your barn and tell you to milk your goats, make sure you have customers enough to buy the milk, and then go Grade A, and he will also tell you that until you are milking 50 goats, it's not profitable to go Grade A without an exsisting facility that you just have to add a milk handling room to. If there was any teeth in the laws at all, do you not think they would have made an example out of some of us gals who very vocally sell milk off our farms for 20+ years? Now deliever it, take it to a farmers market, sell it to a coop with your name on it (which is what most get popped for, selling to buying groups etc..) than yes, you deserve to get your product confiscated and destroyed. 

Those screaming the loudest about the government in their milk are also the ones screaming the loudest when there is an ecoli outbreak in spinach...can't have it both ways, change the laws. Vicki


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## Qvrfullmidwife

Actually...there are often recalls where no one has gotten sick but where a pathogen or other dangerous situation was found in the product. This has happened in everything from eggs to luncheon meat to you name it.

And...sadly...it doesnt have to be your milk. Someone gets sick and blames your milk even if it was the hamburger that they got at McD that made them sick. Who gets squashed fastest? WOn't be McD--if only because the health authorities are more comfortable with fast food restaurants and know how to accurately inspect them.

Or...people leave the milk out, chug from the container, the milk goes bad and it must be YOUR fault! This is why it always makes me very anxious when someone picks up raw milk "for my friend's baby"...how is it being transported? How long does it take for said friend to get the milk? How is it kept inbetween? And with young babies so much more at risk from food-borne pathogens--it just plain makes me queasy!

(FTR for those who do not know--we are licensed to sell both raw and pasteurized milk here in Texas and do so--this is the family business that pays the bills)


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## Rose

Carli,
A bunch of us just went though a whole letter writing campaign to officials within the last year. Basically, we got patted on the head and told to go away because the public had to be protected.

Very frustrating.

Alice


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## Qvrfullmidwife

Alice (aka Rose) was that in MO or TX? Here is TX consumer outcry was instrumental in pushing back against proposed law changes that would have made it tougher to sell raw milk profitably.


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## Rose

That was in Texas. The letter I got from my state rep was insulting.

As it's not legal to sell raw milk in Texas except for pet use or soap, unless you have a Grade A license, I'm not sure what you are referring to.


It's legal to sell raw milk in Missouri.


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