# I can't protect my animals????



## Qz Sioux (Feb 21, 2009)

Today I had ANOTHER run in with my neighbors over their dogs. The pit bull keeps chasing my "adopted" son, killing (well already killed all) of my chickens, has chased my goats from one end of my property to another, and has come after ME when I tried to get it off of one of my chickens (in hopes of saving it). These people have TONS of dogs, they are not vaccinated, they run the road, and other peoples property, are very aggressive towards anyone that tries to walk down the road. I have tried umteen hundred times to get them to keep their dogs at home. They keep telling me that if I don't want their dogs to kill my chickens, then I need to keep my chickens in a cage so their dogs can't get to them when the come running in my yard!!!!

So, today, when all 7 of their dogs were running across my property after my adopted son, I picked up a baseball bat and started walking towards the pit. Now, mind you, the people were standing RIGHT there! Not one time did they try to call their dogs away. When I started swinging the bat at the pit (hoping I could knock it's head into next week), the grandson (about 16/17 yrs old) grabbed the dog by the collar, and then they BOTH came after me! He was trying to get the dog to bite me. So, I called the Sheriff. 

Two hours later, a deputy shows up. I tell him "my" side of the story, he goes next door to hear "their" side of the story. When he comes back to talk to me, he tells me that they were warned to keep their dogs up, BUT if my dogs are loose in MY yard, I have no ground to stand on if their dogs are loose and come into my yard. I asked him if I could shoot the dogs if they were chasing, harassing, or killing any of my animals. He politely tells me NO. If I shoot one of their dogs, they can file charges against me for animal cruelty! The only way that I MIGHT get away with shooting one of their dogs, is if it has attacked me, and I am afraid for my life, but he also said that I still could get charged with animal cruelty, depending on how much damage he has done to me!

My GP guardian is broken, she doesn't want to ruffle any hackles, so what the heck am I supposed to do? I'm at my wits end here, and feel that these people have control, and if their dogs want to dine on my animals, it is going to be okay for them to do it!

I'm exasperated. Anyone have any ideas for me?


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

I would talk to the actual sheriff, not just a deputy, since this deputy is apparently full of $#!+. And call Animal Control. From what I could find, under Texas law, it is a defense to prosecution (under the non-livestock animal cruelty laws) if "the animal was discovered on the person's property in the act of or after injuring or killing the person's livestock animals or damaging the person's crops and that the person killed or injured the animal at the time of this discovery." So you could have legally shot the dogs when they were killing your chickens.


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## funnyfarmtexas.com (Oct 3, 2012)

Suzie, i think you were misinformed about being able to shoot the dogs. i would make a trip down to the county pd or whoever has jurisdiction over your area. ask them to show you the statute regarding defending your self and property against predators. Also, most parts (i think all) of TX have leash laws. if something happens to your dog outside your own property, only you are responsible. My neighbor is the chief constable and she told me that if someone runs over my dog, it is my fault (even if they were speeding) because she wasn't on a leash. i think that if you start shooting (even in self defense) their dogs, they would only retaliate by killing your animals. 

If it were me, I would make sure that i kept my animals on my property and start documenting with pictures their dogs encroaching on your property. After a few days, I would take these pictures with me to the office that has jurisdiction over your area. If that didn't work, I would visit the mayors office. Squeaky wheel gets the oil. But, be well informed of the local laws and have all your evidence in hand before you start squeaking. good luck girl, i know it is hard dealing with ppl who think they do not have to be accountable. i am afraid my crazy butt would have taken the bat to the dude trying to get the dog to bite me. :mad


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## LSP Farm (Dec 4, 2011)

Call the media, no local S.O. likes to look incompetent in the public eye.. You probably got a Dy right at shift change who had other calls and didn't want to mess with it or Simply didn't know the laws..
Everytime the dogs set foot on your property take pictures and call the SO, you have to build a case.. They might be in your yard every day, but in the law's eyes it only counts when a report is made. The picture also serve as proof, a lot of times the Dy. has to catch the animal on your property to pick it up.. 
I would think about investing in two good donkeys if only for a short time to "fix" the dog problem. 
Dog problems can start a neighbor war... Seen it happen to many times.


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## VictoriaK (Jul 8, 2012)

What a bummer!! Wow, it soulds like you kept your cool! For sure, be on the phone with the local police every single time there is a problem. Too bad there isn't a way to keep them off of your property,, electric fence, or?? 
I had the local sherriff tell me it was a felony to shoot the dog that was ripping my goat apart..after he went and checked the books, he had to retract his fancy ideas about "contacting the DA in the morning" what the heck else can ya do when your goat is being ripped to ribbons by some crazed dog??I think the law just plain don't know the laws, or they aren't aware of them. Not thier fault , Id hate to be in their boots!!
I like the donkey idea, those dogs need to learn who's runnin the show at your place! 
We had a pit bull in our neighborhood that loved to stand guard outside my fence, not letting me leave my house, until I shot a couple rounds into the air, scared that tough dog all the way home! For him, that was all it took to keep him gone.
I sure hope youget this resolved soon!! Please keep us updated!


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

You have a right to protect your livestock and your family. You do not have the right in Texas to shoot a dumb animal unless you or your livestock is in immediate danger. You should have taken photos of the dogs eating your chickens, you could have gotten 5 times the amount they are worth, with Texas livestock laws. We have state laws about this even if your local or county is lax in enforcing them. Go down to the court house and get a copy of Texas law from the city attorney, or go to your constable, ours is a gem, he has livestock so he loves helping out those who have problems with neighbor dogs. In fact our constable is the one who will go to the peoples house and explain this to them, and will take on your deputy, mostly because they are likely fishing buddies or related. And as sad as this makes me, to write this, being the liberal feminist I am, please don't be all hysterical and crying, in fact if you are one of them, send your husband or other male family member. Have everything written down, dates, times any proof you have. Do know in Texas even with a judgement you will never collect a dime, a judge can not make someone pay you a judgement you are owned. A judge can also not make them fence their property, and can't take their dogs unless you have proof it has bitten, chasing is not bitten. Welcome to Texas livestock laws, it protects their mongrels, as much as it protects our livestock. 

This is never going to get better, you need to get a gun, get licensed and protect your home. No dog would be alive that went after my child or grandchild, with the neighbor watching or not. And yes my neighbors hate me, they know how I am about my goats, they know I keep dogs to kill their dogs with pit bulls and rotties on our road, we have the bigger meaner dog with our ridgebacks. Vicki


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

We had an issue with a pit mix roaming around the property. After a warning to the owner I quietly caught the dog while he was in my yard and kenneled him until Animal Control came and took him. I never saw him again so apparently his owners didn't care enough to spring him, just as they didn't care enough to neuter him or keep him from roaming.


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## todog (Dec 10, 2011)

so sorry for your trouble. not sure what texas laws are and more detailed your county laws. as a retired animal control officer in ohio, i can tell you, you would have the right to protect your livestock. but we always told the farmer to use the three S rule, shoot, shovel and shut up. however Nicki has the best idea and i actually use it on my place. if you can get the dog in a contained area or even borrow a large animal trap. and hold the dog till the AC can get there. getting a pitbull to let go of something it has caught is near impossible. i know i have had the misfortune to try it. the media can help too but fencing is usually the best answer (electric hot wire on the lower outside, dogs lead with their noses).


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

We have always lived in Texas, and have been told that we have every right to shoot dogs that come onto our property and threaten our livestock! We use the SSS rule!


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Susie even here in WA we have the right to protect our livestock. We have full permission by the law to shoot any animal causing harm to our animals or ripping up our land. It really is a shame you have to deal with this. Sorry your neighbors are jackanapes (although I would rather use another word) but there ARE things you can do  Ya just have to think outside the box.
Tam


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## Goat Town (Nov 20, 2010)

Another agency you might contact is your state wildlife agency. I've talked to the game rangers several times about strays chasing my livestock. They have told me I have the right to shoot at fur bearing animals bothering my livestock during daylight hours and to kill after dark only if I find something actually killing livestock. It never hurts to talk to as many agencies as possible, to find out the laws, and act accordingly.


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

That deputy was an idiot or maybe corrupt. Personally I think I would go with fencing. If you *have* to live next to people who are clearly uh, subpar, I would fence like Fort Knox. It isn't right or fair, but if they witness you killing their dog, I would be concerned about retaliation. The problem with electric down low is you have to keep the grass off it. I would think a few strands of barbed wire down low would be effective,with field fencing on the inside.


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## Qz Sioux (Feb 21, 2009)

Well, yes, I stayed calm as this is not the first time this has happened. I didn't know that we have an animal control...now. We didn't have one for many, many years. I had been told by the SO, back when, that if I could get pictures of their dogs vandalizing my livestock, that I could get 5 times the worth of the livestock. I knew I wouldn't see a dime because they don't work. They live off of disability, food stamps and medicaid. He also told me that I did have the right to defend my animals by shooting them. He even reported the same back to the neighbors. Now, 5 years later, it appears that the law changed (according to this deputy). 

At one time, I did shoot 6 of their dogs. It took time, but I did the triple S and got rid of the pack they had at the time. The gun I used was a borrowed .22 rifle with a scope. I need to buy me one, as the one I used was borrowed, and they don't live around here anymore.

I will go get a copy of the laws, that was a good idea. I am now carrying my cell phone and/or camera with me at all times when I am outside. While a gun would be nice, the neighbors are within ear-shot and would hear me if I shot one of the dogs, unless there was a way I could hit the dog without the dog yelping.

The officer advised that I take pictures and called the Animal Control officer anytime I found the dogs roaming. Of course he also advised me that I make sure ALL of my dogs AND cats were inside before he showed up. It just stinks that I can't really do much to protect my animals. I do have a LGD, she just isn't working. I adopted one a couple of years ago but he killed chickens and chased the goats, so that was a loss. I asked about Donkeys in another thread, and was advised on llamas, or donkeys, but the thing is, they won't always distinguish what dogs belong and which ones don't. I don't want MY dogs killed. I wouldn't mind investing in a Ridgeback, but I think it would take more than one, and unfortunately, I don't have thousands of dollars to spend on puppies.

My neighbors hate me too Vicki. They also know how I feel about my goats and chickens, and they look at it like goats are goats, chickens are chickens and they both are fair game, no matter whose property they are on.

Still mad about all of this. It just stinks!


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

"While a gun would be nice, the neighbors are within ear-shot and would hear me if I shot one of the dogs, unless there was a way I could hit the dog without the dog yelping"......is that not the whole idea, in front of their children and/or grandchildren would be preferred. Then walk up to the fence with a shovel and ask if they want me to dig the hole or do they want to come get the dog and bury it. Yep, that is just how awful you have to act, then go in the house and cry  What I found was if you can kill the pitbull, the rest of the dogs are not as brave, there seems to be one of the group who likes to harass other livestock, and I wouldn't give that breed one chance after chasing my child. We had that on our road, a family of 3 girls and a boy who were afraid of their own pits if they got off the chains, that is just disgusting but so typical in our area.


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## Annie (Jun 10, 2012)

After reading all the above posts, and totally agreeing with ALL the suggestions, I'd like to add one. It's disgusting and cruel but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. Do you keep YOUR animals locked up at night? Set out a poisoned bait at night and hope their dogs get it. I HATE animal cruelty of any kind, but you must defend your livestock, pets, and CHILDREN. 

I live in eastern Ohio, and have mentioned before that our county animal control tells us to shoot/kill any dog that we feel threatened by/threatens our livestock. Three S law prevails. That said, I am a dog-lover, please don't think I hate dogs....our Jack Russell sleeps between our shoulders and when he's outside he stays INSIDE the fence 

Yep, pics, proof, lots of phone calls, be sure to keep the law informed and bug them constantly!


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## Qz Sioux (Feb 21, 2009)

Not to sound heartless, but I wouldn't be crying over shooting the dog. I'd be doing a happy dance dance: that I got it. I am not totally against pits either. I used to have one. She was one of the best dogs I've ever had. She stayed in the pasture with the pigs, horses (when I had em) and goats and chickens. NEVER did she offer to harm one of them. As a matter of fact, she wouldn't let anyone in the pasture if she didn't know them. She was a much better LGD than the one I have now. A friend of mine had one at the same time I did, and his was his goat guarder. His even guarded his kids from the time they got off the bus, or while waiting for the bus.

Retaliation is something that I do worry about to a degree. My place is fenced, except in an area in the front where they brought in the mobile home after our other one burned down. Their dogs don't come in the front, they have a hole dug under the fence in the back. I have seen those "strangle" wires at the feed store that are used for coyotes. Once they are caught, the more they fight, the tighter it gets. When it gets to a certain point, you can't get anything under it to cut it off. I just don't want to risk one of my dogs "sniffing around" under the fence and getting caught.

While I have thought about some hamburger mixed with some antifreeze as a nice "treat" for their dogs, I worry that if I spend too much time against that side of the property, they will think something is "up". I am with you Annie, I also hate animal cruelty. I feel they are cruel to their animals because obviously, they don't feed them enough or they wouldn't be dining on my chickens. We love dogs too and many that "run" the roads are no problem at all, but their dogs are a hazard. My dogs stay within our fence too, even the part that is down. The SO told me that even if they are within the fence, if they are running "loose" they are considered "at large"? How dumb is that?

I have lived here for 20 years. I have had nothing but problems out of these neighbors since the day we moved out here. Trust me, if we could afford it, we would move without a second glance back.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Are their animals bothering anyone else locally, maybe with some help from some other neighbors?


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## Qz Sioux (Feb 21, 2009)

Oh yes they do! When I killed the dogs back when, the others were shot after they got into a neighbors pasture and killed all of his sheep and goats. He stood out there and just pegged each and every one of them before they could jump the fence.

They didn't have any big dogs for several years, then this past year, they got the pit, and some other mongrels that are quite large. The kids were seen, by a neighbor, using another neighbors' dog to bait the pit. Needless to say, the pit and another of their dogs pulled the dog in half. They threw the dead dog across the street into the empty, overgrown property. My neighbor, whose dog was killed, found out about it, and found his dog. He took him home, crying, and buried him. This neighbor was at the house last night when the SO showed up. He told him all about it and backed my story up. He complained about the dogs as well as the owners.

It is like these people can get away with anything and we all suffer from it because there seems to be nothing we can do.


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

I would use any of the above options.......shoot to kill, poison, or you can always take them on a very long ride, and kill them elsewhere. If they have collars, take them off and burn them. You absolutely don't have to let these dogs attack you or your livestock.


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## AlaynaMay (May 12, 2012)

Wow, I didn't know that the laws were so messed up... Thankfully we have great neighbors, even though one has a pit and another a pit cross. The pit has killed a couple chickens, but they apologized profusely, and for us, our neighbors were worth a lot more than a chicken. (And the silly birds deserved it for ranging so far from the house... Now they stay locked up most of the time.) Oh, and the neighbor gave that dog a much-needed spanking to teach her to keep her teeth out of other folks property.


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

Just an addition to the other advice you got:

Keep a diary in one of those school exam type notebooks where you cannot remove the pages without it being obvious. Date and time on each entry. Leave no spaces between entries. Write like you would a police report-cover the who, what, when, where, why and how. List witnesses. Do it each time you have contact with the dogs or owners or even see the dogs near your property.


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

Engaging in wordplay and legal banter serves nobody and simply drags out the problem and inflames people far more than shoot it, bury it and don't even bother to mention it because it is routine ranch maintenance.. Just my two cents.

I live in Texas and I concur 100% - shoot the dog next time he comes on your property end of story. Just treat it like any other wild animal in season. Try to make sure it is a clean kill shot so no cruelty is involved. You need to do what you have to do. HP round ideally and right to the heart or forward chest neck area as best you can land the shot. Probably want to use something larger than a 22LR round to make sure it only takes 1 shot. Maybe like a 762x39 or 308 or even a 40 S&W, 9mm, 45 pistol round if you have a carbine that uses those (love mine accurate as crazy out to about 75 yards)

I went for one of these for handy brush gun http://www.gunsamerica.com/960027459/Guns/Rifles/Hi-Point-Rifles/4095_w_under_forearm_rail.htm
Uses 40 HP and slapped a cheap red dot holographic scope on it - it can ping a 6x6 metal target all day at 50 yards (almost gets boring) and cost me like $300


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

Hope I didn't offend any dog lovers. I love dogs! I have owned several my first was a terrier mixed mutt Butch .. smart as could be used to go nuts every day when I came home from school as a boy. Loved that dog to death but at the same time I have no sympathy for these poorly trained monsters people are breeding nowadays that think it is cute to teach their dog to be a bad aggressive stupid dangerous animal. Zero tolerance is the best policy.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Alayna so now your hens can't forage on your property? So she pays for their feed while they are locked up because she can't keep her dog home? Vicki


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## VictoriaK (Jul 8, 2012)

I totally love that mentality..just like cleaning up the weeds, you have to "clean up" and be sure your critters are safe. SO what is the difference in several years ago, the way you cleaned em up, and now? I assume the SO wasn't involved? Time to do some fall cleaning if you ask me...Zero tolerance is a policy we all should have, then our neighbors will get it, hate us, and keep the mutts off of our property. 
We had to shoot that beautiful huskey a few years back, I had never seen the dog before. Come to find out, the neighbor had him for just a few days. It was really creepy to have him living right next to us after that. The guy was a wife beater, and it just got weird. I worried every time I left home. Thankfully he finally moved but he and all of the other neighbors clearly understand, do not mess with my goats. period. 
Spose it's time to get the message across to your neighbors again. Best to just make them dissapear, and find yourself a good mean dog to guard your own property while you're gone. I just love those Ridgebacks, even the mixes are amazing!! And intimidating!!


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## funnyfarmtexas.com (Oct 3, 2012)

I picked up a Nigerian buck near Corpus Christi the past weekend and she had the coolest herd dogs. http://www.southlandranchtx.com/Dogue_de_Bordeaux.html


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## Annie (Jun 10, 2012)

Ray - I think she had to borrow the gun she used the last time, and might not be in a position financially to buy one right now. 

Suzy, hang in there, might not seem like much but you've got all of us behind you


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

Annie said:


> ...might not be in a position financially to buy one (gun) right now.


Understood. We all go through highs and lows that's why our vows say stuff like "for richer and for poorer". Still there are so many inexpensive options - cheapest ones include going to Walmart and get a basic 12 gauge those are only $157 last I checked. You'd probably want to use the slug rounds and don;t hold it to your shoulder when you fire it (if you have ever been kicked by a horse or mule as I have the recoil on a 12ga is almost like that).

Still A LOT cheaper than paying for stitches on your adopted child.


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## Qz Sioux (Feb 21, 2009)

Sorry so late in replying. Been at the hospital with husband all night and all today. He has cancer and is having a rough time right now...any way...

Yes, the gun I borrowed was a German WW ? Mouser (sp?) sniper rifle. It was a one-shot, reload kinda gun. When I was practicing shooting it, I shot a crow, on the ground, at 75+ yards and it flipped over, flopped once and that was it. Because I'm blind in one eye, I really need a scope so that I can pin it on what I'm shooting at. A laser pointer would be nice, but not sure how far it would reach during the day, and I don't wanna shoot anything at night unless it is a full moon.

As of right now, all of their dogs have not been seen. I'm sure that they are keeping them "leashed" in some way, but I also know them well enough that they will not keep them up for long. I do know that once I can get a gun of my own, once I start practicing with it, and they hear me shooting it, they will put them up again.... for how long is anyone's guess.

One thing that I do know, is that I need to be careful in my timing of getting rid of them. If it is too soon after the incident, I could be accused of "retaliation". The notebook idea is a great one. I have tons of them that I buy during the school supply sales at the beginning of the school year because I use them for school myself. I also think that one reason that things have "changed" in the last few years is that we now have an animal control officer, which we didn't when I exterminated before. The first time I killed one of their dogs, I was quite sad about it. I felt bad that I had to kill an animal that had never learned right from wrong, and just was not "loved". When I took out one of their dogs and her 4 puppies, I had no qualms about it at all. They had torn up a goat that I had gotten that was wild as a march hare. I had tamed this goat down to be a lap goat, and when she was screaming for help, I went out and shot every one of them. Yep, I had to reload, but the dogs were so stupid, that when I hit one of them, and it yelped, they all ran to it....I then just picked 'em all off while they were trying to figure out what was going on. The neighbors never asked any questions, I followed the triple "S" code, and all was great for a few years.

Yep, finances are a big player right now with the gun. A shotgun of any kind is out of the question. I shot one once, and it knocked me on my hiney. Won't do that again. Plus, again, I need something that is going to be very accurate for long range, with my one good eye.

I had no idea that "Hooch" dogs were good livestock dogs. Being in the mastiff family, I just wouldn't of thunk it. I won't mess with a Rottie, just cuz I don't think I have the patience for them. I'd much rather have a Ridgeback or other "normal" LGD, that has guarding strongly bred in and comes from working parents.


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## milkmaidranch (Jun 21, 2010)

The 3 S's need to come into play here. You do live in Texas after all. I've done this many times over the years and if any dog is on your property, you have the legal right to shoot it.(I don't care what the deputy said) The other avenue to go down is to call Texas Wildlife. Tell them you have something killing your livestock. They may come put up traps. 

1) Shoot 
2) Shovel
3) Shut up


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## AlaynaMay (May 12, 2012)

Our neighbors do keep their dogs locked up now, but the chickens were getting on the nerves of everyone in our family, including my own... I was fed up when they kept roosting in the barn instead of their coop, and they were hiding their eggs, so now they only get let out in the afternoon. And they were ranging a long way from the house, so really it was a problem.


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## In it for the Bucks! (Mar 12, 2012)

Wow I am very greatfull for our laws out here. If they attack (human or animal) I shoot. Call the owner and tell them to come pick up thier property. The end!! It's not worth being scared on your own place.
Have you tried a open crate type trap set at the fence. Your property, they can't say a word. Then call AC to come get them. If they live like you say they probably can't afford to get them back. One down a few more to go. 
I know it does sound temping to poisin but please dont.  My neighbor has posined over 10 dogs in our neighborhood. Leaves animal carcasses in his yard to bait the dogs on a regular basis then does the dog food antifreeze thing.  It is the worst to watch a dog suffer like that. As much as it would end your problem.
Check with the sherriff and AC there has got to be something you can do.


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

milkmaidranch has it right. Your property - any animals find their way on it should be yours to dispose of as you see fit.

As to the laser thing - as a shooter hobbyist, I find lasers mostly worthless. Scopes are the most expensive part of most good scoped rigs. My AK has a scope and I have to sight it in half the time and make sure it doesn't lose sighting between uses. Even with very good scope rings the recoil of a good hard hitting rifle rattles the scope rings slightly after a bunch of rounds then a few months in the case, 100 rounds few more months in the case and your scenario you would not have time to sight it back in. This was why I suggesting the pistol ammo carbine with a $30 holographic sight. It unlike rings seems to stay more or less sighted between trips to the range so makes an excellent brush gun. Holds a 10 magazine and has less recoil too - and the nice short 16" barrel is handier than the longer rifles mine came new with a shoulder sling strap too. Overall low cost yet very effective.


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## VictoriaK (Jul 8, 2012)

Informative, 
I love the way you think! Gotta get me one of those sights!


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## milkmaidranch (Jun 21, 2010)

And Informative is right also. We have a scope on the one we use for shooting wild hogs. It's a very powerful gun and I can't remember what it's called as it's my sons and I would never try to fire it for the kickback. Last year we were having so many coyote problems that the GP's couldn't handle them, now we have 5 GP's. Anyway, the coyotes were traveling on our back fence line one morning while I was feeding and here they came. Good thing my cell was in my pocket. My son was out the door with that rifle in a flash, scope on. I was amazed at the distance and thought he'd never be able to hit it. I was sooooo wrong. Got it dead center. That would never have happened without the scope. 

Suzy


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## funnyfarmtexas.com (Oct 3, 2012)

Informative, so i guess you would never entertain the whole bean bag gun theory. LOL 
No on a more serious note, (rare for me) can anyone recommend a gun that will sting the snot out of a dog and not penetrate them? 
I just don't want to have to deal with the neighbors if i kill their dog. their dog came up missing for 2 weeks and they came over accusing us of killing it, and have been completely rude ever since. Even after their dog showed back up, they still act like buttheads.


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## Qz Sioux (Feb 21, 2009)

Wow Brenda! Let me check and make sure my neighbors didn't move......

Nope, they are still there, so now you have your own :/ We had a pump bb gun that we used to use on the dogs that wandered up. We also use it on our own dogs when they were doing things that they shouldn't. I gotta tell you though, I soon decided to keep the bb gun for our own dog use (never use it anymore). All the bb gun taught the wandering dogs was that they needed to be a little more sneaky and as soon as they heard any door or window open, RUN. I learned that shoot to sting was just not going to work, it had to become a shoot to kill. Of course now I'm cornered because I am scared to kill now.

This did happen almost a week ago now. I haven't seen hide nor hair of their dogs. I hear them all the time, but haven't seen 'em. I do have a gun on lay-a-way that I'll be picking up next month. It is just a cheap .22 with a scope, but I was allowed to look through the scope, and I could see quite far. I was also instructed that I need to maybe think about a "silencer" of some sort, but I don't wanna do that. I know that once I start "target" practice, they will hear me shooting. I WANT that. At least that way, they will know that I am once again armed, and with the practice, will be able to hit my "target". 

Good luck with your neighbors Brenda.


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## funnyfarmtexas.com (Oct 3, 2012)

ok, here is the update on my neighbor. His dog got in my goat pen. i went looking for them and they refused to answer the door. THEY WERE HOME. My daughter caught the dog and took it back to them and told them to keep their dog off our property because it was getting in with our goats. He said, if you shoot my dog, i will come to your house and shoot your dog. FLIPPIN CRAZY SOB! 

it gets better. his dog was on my flippin porch again. my husband was home this time. the old man came accross the road to get his dog. his dog proceeded to take a crap (LARGE DOG, LARGE CRAP) on the steps of my porch right infront of us all. OMG, I WANTED TO KICK THE HEAD OFF THAT DOG. the old man watches my husband get a rag and clean it up. then he tells my husband not to shoot his dog unless he KILLS one of my goats. WTH is wrong with ppl. OMG, i was so blasted mad. Still am.


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## Qz Sioux (Feb 21, 2009)

Girl, I hear ya! You should have taken pictures and called the SO. If your phone can record video, do it! Mine is just a cheapy, so it won't do that, but my camera sure will and I carry that with me EVERY time I go out the door. My neighbors dogs are staying off our property, but I did see one of them running down the road in front of our house. I took a picture, and added that to my notebook. I'm determined to keep a journal as well as pictures. I just downloaded it onto the PC and printed out a copy of it to put in the journal. Everything is dated as well.

As soon as my gun gets here, I'm gonna be practicing all the time. That way when I do shoot their dog, they won't know if I shot it, or what. It will just "disappear" :biggrin


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## luvzmybabz (Sep 15, 2008)

Had the same thing to me however another of the neigbir's actually reported it to the police. I actually watched and listened to the in car recording when the police came to me and asked if I wanted to press harrassment againist her, if so they would charge her with filling a false report. Just so happens the officer she made the report to was a friend that picked the dog up on a weekend since Animal Control was off, then just so happens another cop adopted the dog. But they swore I shot their dog then when things came out they swore the dog was not theirs just a stray they sometimes let come into their house during abd weather. Cause there was a stack of tickets and fines. Same people got more dogs these dogs cornered my kids while they were taking out the trash and nipped me I very kindly told them keep the dogs up or they would leave as well.

Another neighbor had a pit mix hubby clotheslined it as it was jumping the fence intro goat pen held it down til I got him some rope and he hog tied and muzzled it. Then called animal control.

There are some new dogs roaming and my police friend and I went recently to an estsate acuction and I purchased a 12 gauge, since we are legally in city limits he said it would be better less chance of hitting other houses etc. It is close by ay any time.



funnyfarmtexas.com said:


> Informative, so i guess you would never entertain the whole bean bag gun theory. LOL
> No on a more serious note, (rare for me) can anyone recommend a gun that will sting the snot out of a dog and not penetrate them?
> I just don't want to have to deal with the neighbors if i kill their dog. their dog came up missing for 2 weeks and they came over accusing us of killing it, and have been completely rude ever since. Even after their dog showed back up, they still act like buttheads.


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## chell20013 (Feb 7, 2011)

Wow. Once again affirming that I love my location. I live within city limits in a tiny town in Oklahoma and was told at a town meeting by the police chief-and backed up by the lawyer the town has on retainer "Do whatever you need to do. Just don't tell me about it."
We aren't supposed to fire a gun within city limits, but with no animal control officer on the payroll, none of the animal laws can be enforced, so we get to enforce our own laws!

On a side note, the police chief caught my 80 year old neighbor stomping a squirrel to death (he was eating her pecans) and told her "You can't do that".


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

Lol, I don't think I'd want to live near 80 year old ladies who stomp squirrels to death!


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2012)

I would love an 80 year old that stomps squirrels... they are just big rats... and shows that she don't take nothing from nobody..LOL... she sounds fiesty..


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

I guess I'm pretty lucky here, no stray dogs. The leash law in my town and the town we border is very strict. The only dog that has come onto my property was the Lab/Shep that was trying to get into my chickens. No collar but looked well kept, probably slipped the collar. My 2 Pyrs and the Alaskan Husky went after that dog, which was good. What wasn't good was one of the Pyrs and the Husky were on leashes. I got tangled and the other dog bite me when it was aiming for the Husky. It was a really nasty bite. Dog took off like the hounds of hell were after it, when it was actually only my Pyr pup who was the only one unleashed. Never saw hide nor hair of it again. If course I missed a day of work and had to have the 2 shot Rabies booster. Thank goodness I had had the full series years before when I was the animal control for a couple of local towns.

We have the right up here to shoot any domestic or wild animal who harasses or harms our livestock. My problem is I am surrounded by neighbors.

The worst thing for me is not wild or domestic animals harassing my animals, its the humans. Unfortunately, the laws are not so lenient on shooting them. I could shoot one of those types of predators easier than I could an animal. The same kid who burned my barn, murdering all my goats has been back. He broke into the neighbors house 3 times and got into my barn turning the horses and goats loose on 2 separate occasions.


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## Bella Star (Oct 27, 2007)

I am very sorry and know how you feel,I have been thru it several times,like this spring with loosing 2 very pregnant Boer does,below is my reminder ! I dont tolerate the dogs ,you have small children and I dont trust pit dogs as most are used just like that guy tried to do to you with getting the dog to bite you. You cannot and wont be able to deal with neighbors like you have now so you have 2 choices .... move... or drive the sheriff dept crazy as that's THEIR job to protect you when you need help ! 1. You MUST keep your animals and dogs and people on your property and have fencing all around . 2. You must stay on your property ! Your neighbor sounds unreasonable and you are NOT going to be able to talk peaceable with him ..... call the sheriff dept if you have a problem with neighbors .... tell sheriff dept,that you fear for your life and that you feel your life is threatened IF neighbor does the dog pushing to get the dog to bite you or your kids and keep calling as those calls are taped ... however ,for me ... I move! ... I just dont want to live by these type of people and I am here where I am at ,due to neighbors with dogs and I now have been here for 12 years and I dont visit or know anyone as I leave everybody alone and that's sad.
My beautiful sweet Janey died this spring as dog's ripped and chewed her udder off completely and left 4 holes where her udder was, she is my reminder !! I kill every dog that goes after my stock in my pasture !!!!!!!!!!!


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## milkmaidranch (Jun 21, 2010)

This is all so sad. This is also the reason I have 5 Great Pyrenees dogs. As I'm 10 miles from town my closest neighbor is 1/4 mile from me. He as a German Shepard and Jack Russell but they stay home. My GP's go any place they want. After all, the earth is their's to protect. (That's the way they see it). Over the years we've had to shoot strays and 2 were our children's best friends dogs. I never said a word but one day the 2 Boxers were after my herd of dairy goats, the children were in school and both parents worked so I know no one was at home to get them. I took the .22 and didn't go back to the house till the deed was done. It took several months before the kids asked me if I saw their dogs latey. Lately, no.


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## Annie (Jun 10, 2012)

First - when your daughter took the dog out of the pen and they refused to answer the door, I would have taken the dog to the pound, or dropped it off at the sheriff's office and REFUSED to leave with it, tying to a police car if necessary. And filed a report of a "vicious" dog (gotta do what you gotta do, exagerrate when necessary)
Second - when that dog crapped on my porch, I would have cleaned it up then wiped it on the neighbor's door OR dropped pants and crapped on their porch myself  (yes, I'm ornery).


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## linuxboy (Oct 26, 2009)

No body, no crime.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

linuxboy said:


> No body, no crime.


Where's the "like" button.


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## Bella Star (Oct 27, 2007)

Here in Texas,I dont get on anybodies property when feuding because we can shoot to kill IF we feel like our lives might be in danger,like the Florida law sooooo it's best to stay on your property and do what you have to do,to protect your family, animals and property. The 3 S'S - shoot-shovel and shut-up on your property and IF the neighbor comes... shut up, ask them to get off your property and be prepared with calling the sheriff !!


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

funnyfarmtexas.com said:


> Informative, so i guess you would never entertain the whole bean bag gun theory. LOL
> No on a more serious note, (rare for me) can anyone recommend a gun that will sting the snot out of a dog and not penetrate them?
> I just don't want to have to deal with the neighbors if i kill their dog. their dog came up missing for 2 weeks and they came over accusing us of killing it, and have been completely rude ever since. Even after their dog showed back up, they still act like buttheads.


You can always get non-lethal rounds for a 12 Gauge - they have like rubber pellets instead of real double or triple ought buckshot. Should hurt like heck and the rubber pellets dont have the same momentum so if they ever do penetrate like a point blank shot might, it would likely be survivable injuries.

Example here> http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/AMM-8113


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## mommaB (Mar 12, 2010)

> their dog came up missing for 2 weeks and they came over accusing us of killing it, and have been completely rude ever since. Even after their dog showed back up, they still act like buttheads.


That right there tells you they _know_ their dog is doing wrong!!! Shoot the damn thing, and be done with it!! I HATE irresponsible dog owners!!! If one of my own dogs did something to one of my animals I would shoot my own dog! NO tolerance for that kind of behavior! So I sure as heck wouldn't tolerate it from someone else's.

Sorry you have to deal with it at all......


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## Bella Star (Oct 27, 2007)

To me,this is getting to dangerous to talk about and imagine as NO BODY HERE wants to hurt,mame or kill a person sooo......... CALL THE SHERIFF and make it clear that your neighbor made threats to you and tell them that you have children that you are afraid that they are in danger due to the dog and man thing ..... ask them for protection and tell them you are asking for help as you dont feel safe due to their actions and threats !!!! Tell sheriff dispatcher and those that you talk too,that you are recording your calls for help,just in case you are not protected from the neighbor. When you call state the date,time and ask who you are talking with as all this needs to be on the recorder .. that way ,you have proof of your calls for protection for a law suite on the county dept. if necessary if you are harmed by those crazy neighbor people. NEVER pull a gun unless you mean to use it as your bullets might be rubber but his will be real !!!!!!!!!!......... The 3 -S's saying are for the cur dogs not people.
Be safe ,your family and your animals stay on your property and I would not speak to them at all. In Texas,the crazy neighbors are responsible and will have to pay for dead animals that their dogs kill in your yard ,however it will be a judgement and you probably will never get a penny probably. You have to decide IF where you are living around is worth going thru what you are dealing with now or just move !!! Me,well .... I move as I dont like dealing with crazy people as there is lot's of property out there right now to rent or buy and like the realtors say.... location...location ... check out the neighborhood and the neighbors as they wont change !


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

On the subject of really low cost protection there is always bear mace - hornet spray - both non-lethal and my personal favorite yes I have actually made a couple of these they are awesome and cost like $10 to make.

The PVC bow. Slap a quiver/pouch with some bodkin tipped arrows and you could do some serious self defense silently out to about 30 feet with a little practice.


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## Qz Sioux (Feb 21, 2009)

Bella Star said:


> To me,this is getting to dangerous to talk about and imagine as NO BODY HERE wants to hurt,mame or kill a person
> 
> The 3 -S's saying are for the cur dogs not people.
> 
> Be safe ,your family and your animals stay on your property and I would not speak to them at all. In Texas,the crazy neighbors are responsible and will have to pay for dead animals that their dogs kill in your yard ,however it will be a judgement and you probably will never get a penny probably. You have to decide IF where you are living around is worth going thru what you are dealing with now or just move !!! Me,well .... I move as I dont like dealing with crazy people as there is lot's of property out there right now to rent or buy and like the realtors say.... location...location ... check out the neighborhood and the neighbors as they wont change !


Trust me, I would never put an animal's life above a person's. No matter how much I do not like that person.

Yes, the "Triple S" is for animals only!

Again, trust me, if I could afford it, I would move for more reasons than just my neighbors. When we moved here, it was rather rushed, and no, we didn't do our homework on checking out the neighborhood. I would love to live on many acres with my house in the middle and the perimeter surrounded by thick brush and trees.



informative said:


> On the subject of really low cost protection there is always bear mace - hornet spray - both non-lethal and my personal favorite yes I have actually made a couple of these they are awesome and cost like $10 to make.
> 
> The PVC bow. Slap a quiver/pouch with some bodkin tipped arrows and you could do some serious self defense silently out to about 30 feet with a little practice.


I've thought about practicing with a bow. Like you say, it would be silent but deadly. You only need one good eye to shoot it, and the ammo is re-usable =D

Oh, and the 80 year old lady who stomped a squirrel to death, I had to laugh. She does have spunk! I will say though, I do like the squirrels that live here.

I wish my local SO were more 'up to date' and would take care of the little guy....but I do personally know the DA here and I am keeping a journal. My camera will be my proof.


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

Interesting different personalities. I've been contemplating planting nut trees in order to attract squirrels, lol.


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## shawhee (Jun 28, 2008)

Suzie.... Rubbish!!! You can protect your animals. Here is some info for you....

http://ww2.co.waller.tx.us/animal_control.html#DANGEROUS

Scroll down a little, there is the "dangerous dog" definition..... which as you explain they are if they are coming after you. And then your Texas Laws are there as well. I would read up.... be prepared, document.... I might even be inclined to pick up some cheap chickens... and have them out when you are available to take pictures or video. Yes basically set them up so that you can get further documentation to take to the authorities (if that is the route you choose to go). I know it sounds cruel, but it is better than loosing your goats. I for one would not even go there. I have dogs that work, and good neighbors thank goodness. And yes we shoot!! Mostly our concerns lately have been coyotes, but we don't even get to shoot anymore our dogs take care of it.


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## Qz Sioux (Feb 21, 2009)

Shawna, that is a great reference! I have printed out 20 copies and will be rubber-banding one to each of the mail boxes. I can't put them inside, but it is legal to put them on the outside. This way, ALL the neighbors will know the laws and I have also put a copy of it within my journal. Cheap chickens? Got 'em! One of my "good" neighbors just gave me twenty 1/2 grown chicks. They will be out running around shortly :biggrin and because they are already "bonded" with me, they will come when I call them to put them up when I'm not out.


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

Sometimes the human predator is a threat to humans also. That calls for deadly force when you feel the need to protect yourself from that person. The person who burned my barn also burned my house. He lurks around my property at night. Who knows what someone like him would do. I have begun to carry my shotgun with me, not for wildlife or someones dog, its for the creepy neighborhood kid. Yes, I would shoot if I felt threatened or if I caught him harming one of the animals. 

Juveniles who burn buildings and harm animals can grow up to be seriel killers. Most seriel killers started out burning homes and killing/torturing animals. Then they moved to killing and torturing children and adults. Yup, I now carry a gun.


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## shawhee (Jun 28, 2008)

Another option... if I were facing your situation is a paintball gun. Man those things HURT!!! Leaves some real good evidence as well. Well Deputy.... I shot a paint ball gun at a couple of dogs that were chasing my stock (see the pictures... right here in my notebook). But they left so fast I did not get after pictures but .... you should be able to ask around and find them pretty easy as they are wearing some neon Green/orange/pink... paint... I would pick an obnoxious color that could be seen a mile away just to be funny.


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## funnyfarmtexas.com (Oct 3, 2012)

Sully, omg, i am so sorry. that broke my heart reading that. i am afraid i would be dressed in camo and on the hunt for the sicko who did that to you.


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## VictoriaK (Jul 8, 2012)

This is so sad, reading about years of hard times, and suffereing at the hands of 
people that are not responsible..My heart goes out to all of you fine people for doing
what you can in those circumstances. 
I have and always will have ZERO tollerance for animal abuse of any kind, even when it was my 
own beloved dog, she killed a baby goat out of the blue, the only thing I could find was one hoof. 
I put her down right then and there...my heart broke, but it had to be done...reminds me of
the movie True Women


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## milkmaidranch (Jun 21, 2010)

NOW that's a good idea Shawna. I like it.


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

follow-up: I found standard para-cord works pretty well for bow strings.. the poplar 5/16 dowels are only 29 cents per arrow shaft.

http://www.amazon.com/150-Tensile-S...b-20&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399373


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## milkmaidranch (Jun 21, 2010)

Ray, I have a very hard time not picturing Bruce Willis when I read your posts. LOL


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

I wish I had a reloading set up. Shot gun shells loaded with rock salt works well, it hurts like crazy but is non-lethal.


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## Qz Sioux (Feb 21, 2009)

Ray, I have watched several of the "Backyard Bowyer's" videos. VERY interesting, and quite easy too. I'm thinking of making me one of those bows. I also have some of those 4 sided arrows that are extremely sharp, that I can use with it. Practice makes perfect!

Now Sully, you KNOW that we don't wanna "hurt like crazy" we want it to be lethal....unless your talking about aiming at your heathen neighbor kid.

I just got back from all the neighborhood mail boxes, and everyone of them (including mine) has a copy of the Texas Dangerous Dog Law, as well as the Texas Dog/Coyote that attack livestock law. Now, everyone has a copy, and can't say they didn't know a thing about it.


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

That's gotta be frustrating and scary to have creepy neighbors and then law enforcement that doesn't help you. Several years back, a couple of my neighbor's herd dogs got together and into pack mentality. In the process, they killed a baby goat. I called the sheriff's office and showed the dead kid to the deputy. He told me I had the right to shoot dogs threatening my goats. The neighbors paid for the goat. I put up a higher fence. One of the dogs came back one day as I was leaving for work. I loaded him into my car and dropped him off at the humane society. The owner had to pay to get him back. I never saw him run loose again. The other neighbor had two dogs. The one not involved in the first incident got hold of a baby Boer playing in my yard as I was doing chores. I came running when I heard the kid cry. We managed to get the dog off her before any major damage was done. The neighbor's comment was that the goat was lose. I informed her that the goat had a right to play in her own backyard, and that if her dog had killed that goat, the cost to her would be $500. None of her dogs have been loose in my yard since. She's learned to be a good neighbor and even lets us know if she spots coyotes. Here in Montana, the laws are pretty good about dogs and other predators. You can even get a permit to shoot wolves.
Sully, have you tried turning your neighbor kid into the juvenile authorities? He now has a pattern of criminal behavior with more than one family. Something needs to be done. I used to work with delinquent youth and many were locked in treatment facilities for less serious offenses. If that kid is lurking around your property, that is stalking and I know there are anti stalking laws.


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

If you do try one of the backyard-bowyers PVC build just be sure you are in a very well ventilated area while heating the PVC. I've read the fumes are not healthy. I used 1" PVC at just over 5 feet and got a good solid 45-50 pound bow out of it - haven't chrono'd the arrows but I estimate they must be going a good 500 FPS or more - faster than my eye can see for sure. Best part is even if you never have to use them they are great fun for recreation too.


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