# Do you separate into kidding pens?



## ezekielsgarden (Nov 2, 2009)

Hi all!

I'm new here. I had a question about kidding pens. My 2 Alpines have been bred and are due the first week of March. My 2 doelings will be bred either this heat cycle or the next, so they'll be due sometime in late April/early May. In each batch, the girls will be due within days of one another. My husband wondered about kidding pens. Vicki has said to me that her girls prefer to be with one another and help each other. I'm just wondering what others do too.

To let you know our current setup, we have a fenced pasture 80' x 80' with a 10' x 10' ShelterLogic shelter in it. It's on somewhat rolling ground that slopes down toward a small creek, but the shelter is at the top, along with the water and hay feeder. We feed them their grain in the milking parlor. That's because it's much easier to make sure everybody is getting enough & nobody is hogging it all. Plus, it helps get the doelings accustomed to handling and going up to the parlor. We are winterizing our shelter by putting straw bales inside, stacked 2 high, to block wind, especially when they're bedded down for the night, so it will be tighter quarters than usual this winter. We hope to build a barn or at least an actual shed in the spring.

My husband's thought, if we need a kidding pen, is to possibly build one out of T-posts and tall combination panels (small squares on the bottom) and put a small shelter in it, maybe a combination panel bent over with both ends buried in the ground & covered with a good tarp. Another option we've seen is a small ShelterLogic-type tent (we'd have to get another one) with a combination panel in the front. If we did either, though, would we need 2 of them, since in both batches the girls will be kidding close to the same time? If we didn't, wouldn't the doelings possibly bug the big girls or the big girls each other? Or the big girls and their kids bug the little girls when their time to kid comes?

If we do make kidding pen(s), we want to do it before the ground freezes and while the weather is still pleasant to work in.

Thanks!


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

What will work for you depends somewhat on how you will raise the kids after they're born. If you're going to pull them and bottle feed, then you will probably only need one pen, because the chances of them kidding at exactly the same time are less. Once the placenta is passes, out of the pen they go. 

If you're going to dam raise, you need enough for them to stay in the pen with their kids for up to a week, depending on how long it takes your kids and does bonded and nursing down pat. The last thing you want is to have them nurse off the wrong dam and have them refused by their own mom--that can be a mess!

I've only gone through one kidding season, and with few goats, so my observation here is very limited, but my does kidded in the main barn and the other goats knew it was time to give them room, and left the barn for the main event.  The does in labor wanted to be able to walk and stretch and not be confined to the kidding stall. One doe, wanted to lay on my lap and have me speak softly and pet her through every contraction! (I don't blame her  ) After they kidded, I put them and the babies in the stall to bond b/c I needed to dam raise. It was also a good place to wait for the placenta to pass w/o my LGD trying to pull it out of them! My stall is in the barn, with fencing as the wall so they can see through and still feel connected to their herd. 

It sounds like with your setup, whatever you do, you could section off a corner of their current pen to build your stall/shelter??


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## tmfinley (Feb 21, 2008)

I prefer a spot away from the other does for freshening. I have individual kidding pens but this year just closed off the main barn area to have more room and to make the laboring doe more comfortable. This way the lowest doe on the totem pole isn't being badgered by anyone while she is in labor and no one is bothering me trying to get my attention while I am trying to concentrate on the birth. After the birth is really not as important in my opinion. I dam raised in the past and left the dam and kids together in the kidding pen for a couple days then let them with the rest of the herd. My girls don't like being away from each other. I think I'm going to bottle raise this year and won't be keeping the does apart at all but I will have them labor separately.

Tiffany


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

At my place, I have four goat houses in my doe pen. I don't lock the does up when they are due, but they can usually find a private space to kid since the does usually all sleep together in the biggest goat house. I pull most of the doelings to bottle raise. If the does would happen to share the raising of the wether kids (this rarely happens), it's not a big issue because all the freshened does come in to be milked every day. At my place, if a doe refuses to bond with her kids, I just pull the boys, too. I'd love a big barn with kidding stalls but we rent, so I'm not building one here.


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## LaManchaPaul (Jun 2, 2008)

I'm a relative newbie also. WELCOME!~! 
For kidding, I keep the preggo in a private pen separated from the herd on two sides by hog wire so there isn't much isolation. It is my experience that she'll look for the nastiest place to drop the kids if not in a clean stall. Here is a good site to help you develop your management style. http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,2077.0.html

Here is an example of how I schedule a typical doe:
Clarisa was bred on 10/30
Jan 28 dry off
Feb 8 worm with Ivermectin plus
Feb 22 Bo-Se
Mar 15 CD&T
Mar 22 shave/clip and move to stall
Due Mar 29
Best to you and your herd. Paul


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## ezekielsgarden (Nov 2, 2009)

Thank you all!!!

I am a stay-at-home (and homeschooling) mom, so I'm home most of the time. The boys and I are planning to bottle-raise, with dh helping on weekends. One of my boys is going to show dairy goats in 4H, and we're going to give him one of the kids (probably a doeling).

Yes, we could turn part of the current pen into a separate pen with very little effort. Either 3 hog panels and T-posts, or set another shelter up against the fence and put a hog panel over the doorway.

Paul, Fancy and Dew are 25 & 26 days (respectively) before your girls. My calculations for all that are very similar to yours. I am calculating Feb 28-Mar 4 for kidding, but we're already working on drying off. I only get about 3 cups (I don't weigh my milk right now, since it's only for family use) every other day per doe.


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## LaManchaPaul (Jun 2, 2008)

Amy, my Suzie self-dried. I had planned to dry her off in Dec. but her production kept going down and down. Even with three milkings a day, I couldn't stop her. She freshened on 3/19 and quit producing about Oct. 15. 

I also count by pints, quarts and gallons. The brain is so old and tired that it doesn't want to learn a new way to measure liquid. When someone counts in pounds, I can convert it but often don't. OK so that is lazy - not tired.... 

I also use MicroS Outlook calendar to manually plug in the info. Then I get a notice for what is due that day.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

I use a kidding pen. You definitely want it covered well and all, because you are bound to be out there in an ice storm freezing to death waiting on a doe to kid. This year we were kidding out a doe after the ice storm, with no electricity. That was about the coldest I had ever been, when I went down there in the middle of the night. Just couldn't stop shaking. Anyway, make it comfortable for you too. I like nice clean straw so I can sit in it and watch/help.


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## DostThouHaveMilk (Oct 25, 2007)

I check the does multiple times a day when they are due to kid. Their ligments and udders are checked when they are given their daily feeding of grain in the evening and also checked throughout the day on those with due dates approaching quickly. Since I started feeding their large feeding of hay and grain in the evening (Thanks, Vicki!) we have very very few night kiddings and even fewer early morning kiddings. Most kid from 4PM-10PM just as I like it.
We kid out a fairly good sized group a few times throughout the winter and spring and sometimes into Summer (yuck). They have a good sized space inside of the milking barn (cow) and also access outside. Hay is fed outside and they have to walk up a fairly steep hill. When a doe is in labor, she goes into a kidding pen. Things have changed slightly since we sold 3/4 of the milking herd (cow) and gave up our Grade A license. We have four kidding pens below where we used to stall cows in the winter. Plus I can put up kidding pens in the main section of their run in. We use hog panels cut to 5 and 6 foot lengths to have pens that can be put up quickly and taken down later. The hog panels allow the does to still see their penmates but they can't be bothered. 
If I worry a doe may kid while I am gone, I'll put her in a kidding pen. These are usually First fresheners. Especially in the winter. Left to their own devices FFs will invariably go out and drop their kids in the snow. This has to do with older does making them uncomfortable.
We use CAE Prevention on doelings and excess bucklings. The dam is left with however many kids we leave on her. How long she stays in the bonding pen depends on how quickly she and her kids bond and how strong her kid is. I like to have them out within 2-7 days. Sometimes, with older does who have proven their maternal abilities and with strong kids at side, they will be kicked out in less than 24 hours, ahead of a younger doe who has already been in a bonding pen for 3 days. I let mother and kid(s) out late morning. This is when the majority of the does are outside at the hay bale and enjoying the sun. This gives mom and kid(s) a chance to explore unharrassed.

The concern with penning a doe long before she is due is that exercise is so vital for a delivery to go smoothly. If you pen a doe up for a week before her delivery date she isn't getting the exercise she needs.
So I try to hold off until the very last minute.


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## Bella Star (Oct 27, 2007)

I have a area fenced off that's close to my house, I LOVE those free pallet's that are 8' long, I make houses using pallets and landscape timbers then cover with tin ,they are cheap and quick to make, they work and look good ,I leave the bottom open to soil,add chips and put a 2x6 across the doorway bottom to keep the babies in. I also wrap and secure the cord of a clamp on light around the top wood for a light in a corner and heat source that the baby kids love ,we even have a small heater secured in one ,you can add dividers in a 8' house so 2 doe's can have their babies in each section. I let the does pick their house for kidding and my doe's wont let another doe in with their kids .We also can move the houses around with the tractor after taking off the front pallet .


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Our approach is much like Roseanna. We normally kid out in winter when it is cold and wet so each of our kidding stalls has a baby box that has a heat lamp fixture in the top. They find it themselves within minutes if they are cold. Hate watching little ones shiver! After the kids are 2 weeks old and have learned to come and go from barn to pasture (we plant rye so they graze all year) we start teaching them to go into a 'baby safe' at night which also has a larger box for a group with heat lamp so I can start them on cocci pellets and start taking half the milk production each morning. They learn to dash thru the little door very quickly to compete for pellets and beet pulp.After milking moms are passed into the baby safe and thru to the pasture after hooking up with their kiddos. (literally!)

FF get to come into kidding stalls at night starting 2 weeks before due date to let them eat without competing and be relaxed and assured they will have a place where older does will not evict them just because they can.

Lee

This photo is titled - Oh Sissy- Bebo Pooped on Your Head! These are 2 of quads that found the box in minutes- basking! We used foil lined plywood-very cozy.

[attachment deleted by admin]


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I used to do a maternity pen, I don't anymore. If I am having problems with does not staying away from me when I am delivering kids, because I sit down in the straw with the doe on a feed sack, I just simply lock them out of the barn. I rarely have to do that. I also like the idea that if I am not there, that younger does will have all the help from the older does who lick off kids etc.. Nubians, or at least mine are notorious for stealing others babies. Since I don't dam raise, and have all tested negative goats, I try to be there, but it's nice to know my old gals will lick off kids until I do get there. For that matter the best mom on the property is my dog Merlot. Vicki


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## ezekielsgarden (Nov 2, 2009)

Thank you all for your replies! This really helps me figure things out. I think we may have something on hand to do a maternity pen for the doelings, as they'll be FF, but maybe not for the adults. The big girls have freshened at least once (Fancy twice, Dew once). I also think that if we can, we'll do some sort of pen that we can keep open, if we need to (for the big girls to help out once the little girls have kidded). 

Thanks again! I've really appreciated it.


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## homeacremom (Nov 6, 2007)

We have 3 small sheds. I use the divided one for a kidding pen, since I can keep a baby tote on the other side of the half wall to pop the babies into. Prefer not to have the doe seeing or bonding with the babies since I'm not dam raising any of them. 
Depending on the weather I have that shed cleaned out and freshly bedded, or just do it as a doe goes into labor. 
Once a doe starts pushing I shut the door. Makes it easier for me if I end up having to work with a difficult birth. She stays in there until the placentas drop and I wash her off. Don't like the idea of other does helping to clean up.  She's only in there at most, a couple hrs. Most of mine clean out quickly and by the time they want to rejoin the herd, they are done and can go.


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## mill-valley (Feb 22, 2008)

We don't use kidding pens either; ideally I catch the babies before they hit the ground. I've got some would-be baby stealers too but they can't even get a lick in. I tried leaving a set of twins on mom last year (meat bucklings) and two of my older does each stole one from the rather timid mama :really. I am just not set up for dam raising here...not doing that again!


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## catdance62 (Mar 2, 2009)

When our does really start getting close--discharge, VERY loose ligaments, we put them in a kidding pen at night. During the day we just check on them frequently


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