# Vacuum Pump Broke for my Milking Machine....Suggestions?



## Pronking Publius (Mar 29, 2012)

So I was milking my girls and the vacuum pump for my homemade surge bucket machine just stopped working...at least it happened 3/4 of the way through my last girl. Attached is a picture of one like it. I bought the thing new a month ago. I did notice that a brownish sludge was seeping from the top where I put the oil in, and it started doing this some time ago. I THOUGHT what was happening, and its the reason I ignored it, was that I overfilled it and it was seeping out and browning from the heat of the engine. It looks like maybe that is what was happening BUT maybe the dirty oil was seeping back into the oil compartment, OR maybe some milk or moisture was being sucked into the pump which mucked up the oil or something? Whichever the case, the glass spot where I look to see if it needs oil shows filthy oil inside, and I couldn't really tell how full it was because of it. I think it seized up. Does anyone know of any quick fixes or rigs just to at least make it work a bit just while I pick up a new one? I know nothing about engines. I guess I'm going to have to hand milk them early tomorrow and try and find another pump tomorrow afternoon, but it would be nice to know what someone might think went wrong so I don't let it happen to the new pump when I get it! What could make the oil get all brownish and filthy on a new pump? (it was a pretty cheap pump). I only milk out three girls into a 5 gallon surge bucket, so I don't know how milk could have gotten sucked into the pump, since the bucket is never full....but maybe it doesn't have to be full to draw in the milk? I don't have a moisture filter which I probably should have. Anyway, like I said, I'm clueless with machinery. Any suggestions on what happened or how to fix it? As an aside, what I mean when I say it stopped working is the fan just stopped spinning. I tried taking the fan guard off and assisting it, but it seems seized.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Ugh. Sorry about your pump! i know nothing about them either, but I know I saw some info online about keeping your pump maintained properly so I am sure you could google it. And look in your local classifieds for someone selling a used one. We got a used pump, a whole set-up for milking, actually, for cheap from someone who was getting out of goats a couple of years ago.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

If you have anything seeping out, you have too much oil in it. Drain some out, I bet it starts working again. Vicki


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## Pronking Publius (Mar 29, 2012)

That was my initial ought as well Vicki, but the oil I put in it was clear, and when I cleaned off the looking glass for the oil level, the oil inside was FILTHY and I couldn't tell how much oil was in it. It's been running for a month or so, so I don't know how all of a sudden too much oil would make it stop, cuz I haven't put oil in it since I started using it. It came with some oil, and I think I put all of it in when I got it. AT ANY RATE, I bought a new one for $135 at Harbor Freight this morning, and it's working great....for now. The instructions on that one said something about engine pressure and the cap not being on tight enough if the oil is seeping, so now I wonder if all the oil slowly seeped out of the old one and it seized up. At any rate, I got the new one, so I'll keep my eye on this one. If anyone else has any observations on what might have happened I'm all ears. When I get the time, I'll see if I can get it working. It would be nice to have a spare.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

When you clean it, how much water do you suck into your bucket at a time. The dirty oil might have been from the cleaning water, or maybe if like you said, the cap was loose, dirt could have got in that way.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

My vacuum pump oil is golden in color, right out of the container. What kind of oil are you using that is clear? Vicki


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

NubianSoaps.com said:


> My vacuum pump oil is golden in color, right out of the container. What kind of oil are you using that is clear? Vicki


Mine is too. Matt, did you mean clear as in not-opaque, or clear, as in no color at all. Because mine is golden, but see-through.


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## Pronking Publius (Mar 29, 2012)

Nancy, that's a good point, I wasn't thinking about the cleaning water. Though I don't think that is it. The surge bucket is 5 or so gallons and when I clean I only use maybe 1 1/2 gallons of bleach water, then maybe another gallon or two of regular water after I empty the bleach water. Also, when I said the oil is "clear" I meant clear like water. I have no idea what kind of oil it is because it came in a bottle with no markings. Pretty sure the directions say, but I don't have them with me. The last pump I had came with clear oil as well. Like I said, it's a pretty cheap pump, and maybe its a bit different than the ones you guys have. I never mentioned this, but maybe the engine burned through the oil quickly on the last one because of being over-stressed. When it came, there was a dent on the fan cover, and when I started it the first time the fan hit the fan cover and got a bit and all the fans got roughed up. I bent the cover back out, and trimmed off most of the burrs on the fans. Perhaps the drag was such so that the engine was overworked? ANYHOO.


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## Goat Town (Nov 20, 2010)

Matt,

Was there any white in the oil? If so you got some moisture into the pump while cleaning it. Such sludge would cause it to seize. That's why I suggest putting a moisture trap right before the pump inlet. On those old "S" style surge lids the milk inlets are rather flat as opposed to the "C" style lids which are angled downward. The flatter thge inlet the more likely moisture could be sucked through the pulsator.


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## Pronking Publius (Mar 29, 2012)

Nicole, I'll take a closer look next time I'm out there. I only noticed that the oil was a light brown, but I didn't look that closely. Good information to know. Thanks.


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## Pronking Publius (Mar 29, 2012)

.....well.....I figured out the problem. The pump absolutely IS drawing in moisture....lots of it. I just looked at the new pump....the one I've been using for only two days....and IT is filling with liquid already in the oil compartment. I looked at the glass where the oil level is and it was a milky white and mostly filled, after just a few days. I don't know if it is from the milking, the cleaning, or both, but as Nicole said, it's most likely from when I clean, since that is when the largest amount of liquid comes through the lines at one time. I looked under the surge lid....no wonder! The hole for the pulsator is only like an inch or so from where holes are that shoot the milk into the bucket, and the holes are AIMED at the pulsator hole which is attached to the line to the pump. I hope I caught it in time so I don't have to get ANOTHER pump. It may be the opposite of what I'm supposed to do, but I emptied out all the nasty oil/milk/water from the oil compartment and filled it with water a few times and dumped the water to try and clean it out. Now I have to find a moisture trap of some sort at either Harbor Freight or the hardware store. If anyone reading this knows of anything that I should do to the pump before I fill it with oil and and try and use it again, please let me know! Without taking it apart, I think it is pretty much empty and just needs more oil put into it, but I don't know the inner workings of these pumps. Well, at least I know what the heck is going on now.


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## jdavenport (Jul 19, 2012)

You might want to try cleaning out the oil compartment with something that is more drying, like a little kerosene. When my old tractor needs its hydraulic fluid replaced, because of water, My dad said to clean it out with a little kerosene, which will really get the gunk out, and not mess up the new oil.


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## Pronking Publius (Mar 29, 2012)

...I'll look into what different moisture traps are available. I don't know how they work, but I think I might have to get one I can empty out every day or something, because like I said, the pump seems to be drawing in a LOT of moisture. I'll peruse the forum, but if anyone has any insightful tips in the meantime on which moisture trap is the right one to get, I'm all ears. Thanks everyone for your help.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

I know a guy that fixes pumps and machines for people and when I first brought mine to him, he cleaned it by running some diesel through it.


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## Rose (Oct 26, 2007)

Get a better pump. 

This company sells oil free pumps.

http://www.perrysmilkers.com/


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## Pronking Publius (Mar 29, 2012)

Alice, well, it's what I can afford right now. I don't think it was the pump as much as it was me not having a moisture filter and having water and milk pour into the pump. My bad. I actually was going to get a perrysmilker when the basic unit was $675. But when I contacted Mike he said the unit I was looking at was discontinued and the next cheapest was now $850, so I made my own. I have heard good things about his milkers though, but what I have is what I have, for now anyway. 

Nancy, I did swirl around a little diesel and dumped it. Hopefully that helped a bit. Thanks.

I ended up picking up the only moisture filter I could find near me and attached a not so good picture of it to this post. The picture may be deceiving since it is zoomed in...it only holds a few ounces. It's pretty small. I really wonder if I don't have something set up wrong. When I turned both my inflations on in a bucket of water that little filter (it probably only holds 2-3 ounces of fluid) filled all the way up by the time I ran through my gallon or so of water, so I might have to get a bigger one or something, but I don't think that much water should be going through to the pump, which is why I think I might have something set up wrong....I don't know how, but it's odd how much fluid goes through. I'll have to mess around with it. Maybe it only fills like that when I clean. Perhaps if I do one inflation at a time or something the water won't get sucked up toward the pump. What a pain. This is why I WAS thinking of getting a pre-maid milker in the first place, but I'm getting to the point where after all the hassle, I think I pretty much get most all these milkers entail, but it hasn't been so easy for me.


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## Rose (Oct 26, 2007)

You can get JUST the vacuum pump from Perry's. Don't have to buy the whole system. 

I will take a pic of my ballast tank (although I'm not using it right now.) Homemade of PVC and big.


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

I have not used one of these for milking but find it handy for many irrigation uses. the suction is mild enough I would think they could be used for milking - if you visit harbor freight to try one of these the caveat is the motors are poor quality so I would either get the extended warranty for $10 or plan on using the pump mechanism with your own 12 volt drill to spin the mechanism. I use them mostly to pull water from the pond during rainy season to fill my storage totes and later use these to pump the water from totes along lengthy feed irrigation tubes to water my trees in hot dry late summer and fall. They are slow 200 gph and thus not very strong suction so should be safe.

The coolest thing for me is the mechanism if you get the right ones they have four flaps that use centrifugal force to create the suction which should last many years or outlast the motor which like everything these days is a cheap Chinese built (or rebuilt from scrap parts) motor sold as new.

http://www.harborfreight.com/12-volt-marine-utility-water-pump-94639.html

Overall I would still recommend the pump because it is handy to be able to strap the motor to a 12v battery and take it on the go to bring the pump to the location (goat) rather than always bringing the goat to the pump. When I get around to rebuilding one to try using for milking will share the results. Currently the other two are assigned to the pond and irrigation @ other end of the farm

If you look inside the garden hose screw on opening the wrong ones the 200 gph instead of 300gph units have a black rubber gasket that wears out quickly if you run it dry for 10 minutes so avoid those get the ones with the white plastic pump mech.


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## Pronking Publius (Mar 29, 2012)

Just as an update to anyone who was following this thread, I discovered this a day or so ago but never mentioned it. After getting the filter and milking there was NO moisture coming through to the moisture trap when I was milking, but I did confirm it was coming through when I clean. I just have to clean slower I guess, because of the small size of the moisture trap I have, if and until I get a bigger trap. I had a HECK of a time finding some more vacuum pump oil since I'm pretty far out in the country and needed one ASAP rather than through the mail in a few days, and as a few people mentioned earlier, this particular oil IS golden in color, as opposed to the clear oil I initially had. Well, hopefully I caught it in time and its the right oil. Time will tell. The oil does say vacuum pump oil...and I do have a vacuum pump, even if its not the same color as the other stuff. The directions for the pump simply tell says to find a "low viscosity vacuum pump oil", and nothing more, so I like said, we'll see what happens. Thanks for all the help.


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

That is really strange about your pump sucking up water like that. Mine doesn't do that. Sure a tiny bit of moisture might go into the tubing, but not like you are describing. I do have a long vacuum hose from the pump to the bucket though, and my pump is up on a shelf, but I don't remember having any problems with it before we installed the shelf...


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## Pronking Publius (Mar 29, 2012)

Nancy, Yep. Length of the hose, height of the pump, angle of the hose, pressure, who knows. I think it was Nicole who said the S type lids were even more susceptible than the other type of lids. I don't know which you have. It's fine milking, and it's even fine when I clean, IF I don't open the valves on my shells all the way but just partially open them. But when I open both valves all the way at the same time when cleaning, that water just gets sucked right into the vacuum. Well, problem solved anyway....for the moment.


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## Goat Town (Nov 20, 2010)

Matt,

I've been thinking about your problem and what comes to mind is making a large moisture trap and installing it in the vacuum line between the milk bucket and the vacuum pump. I've never done it but I wonder if you could put a couple of fittings in a five gallon bucket and then run a line a line from the milk bucket to the "trap" and from the "trap" to the pump. If the five gallon bucket seals well enough and doesn't collapse under vacuum, it would definate keep the water out of the pump. But by all means keep the small moisture trap at the pump.


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## Pronking Publius (Mar 29, 2012)

Nicole, That's something to think about. I tell you, I have HAD it with these vacuum pumps. After the moisture getting sucked into the 6cfm pump I had and breaking it, I got a 3cfm pump at harborfreight a few days ago that I believe I mentioned. IT got some moisture sucked in, I emptied and tried to clean it and then bought some vacuum pump oil that I think was probably the wrong type of oil for that pump. That pump started not working right and was real hard to start. I didn't know how compromised it was due to moisture getting in it, or if it was the wrong oil that I got, or too much or too little oil....so since it was from harborfreight I took it back and exchanged it. Now, FINALLY, I had a moisture trap in place and knew THAT wouldn't happen again AND I knew I had the right oil (the pump initially comes with just enough oil to fill it the first time). Ready to go right? Now, this THIRD pump, just like the last one which is the same model, and which I only had for a few days, is sputtering oil like crazy out of the top exhaust! AHH! Both were doing that but THIS time I know the right type and amount of oil is in it. I know it's a cheap pump.....buy why in the world would it be spitting oil like crazy all over the flippin place when it is brand new? How it works is there is a screw on cap over where you pour in the oil, and it's tight, but there is an exhaust that needs to be open at the top of the cap, and that is where all the sputtering oil is coming out. According to the fill line it is not overfilled, but maybe I should dump just a little? I have lost all hope! Oh, AND for some reason this last pump, even though it is the same pump as the last one, doesn't seem to produce as strong a vacuum until it is warmed up for a while. Hopefully that will change though since I've only used it once and it seemed to pick up a little there at the end. MAybe it just needed to be broken in or something. Spitting and sputtering aside, I know this is a lengthy post already, but is there a pump BESIDE this crappy type that ISN'T $600 or $1000? Not sure whether to keep this crappy sputtering messy pump for a while, or just cut my losses and look for something else. I'm pretty frustrated about all this....if you can't tell. Seems no matter what I do, it never works. I've seen the type this type of vacuum pump used by other people. I don't know why I'M having so much trouble with it.


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## Rose (Oct 26, 2007)

When I got my oil-less pump from Perry's, it was about $400. Ask if they have a discounted rebuilt pump.

I gave up on Harbor Freight pumps for EXACTLY the problems you have.


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## Horsehair Braider (Mar 11, 2011)

I searched Craigslist and found a used Caprine Supply pump. It's a big old heavy thing but man, does it ever work, and with no complaints. When I first got it I did not know how to do maintenance but had ordered the book on the pump. When the book arrived and I took that poor pump apart, it had been running for who knows how long with a FILTHY and practically clogged filter. It never even slowed down, it simply kept working away. Now I know how to take care of it and it does even better, if that is possible. 

Anyway I would recommend to get a pump intended for this purpose. I can recommend Caprine Supply and I am sure there are many others that would do the job. I called Caprine Supply and they spent about an hour or so on the phone with me, explaining to me what I had, and what I would need to maintain it and so on. So the customer service was excellent and of course they had not even sold me the pump. 

The pump I found was several states away, but the guy was willing to ship it to me so that was not a problem. They do come up for sale from time to time, so it might be worth checking. You never know what you might find, and it sounds like you are a very handy person so you could easily deal with issues that a used pump might have.

ETA: I have a Harbor Freight machine for my jewelry and I hate it. The belt on it broke after about 25 hours of use, and I have not been able to find the right belt ever since. But even when it worked it was obviously cheap and not built well. I kind of shudder when I hear that name, now.


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## dreamfirefarm (Nov 15, 2011)

Dont know if anyone has posted this but go to a source that specializes in milking systems Parts dept online is and expert. I have milked with a machine for 33 yrs you need whats called a ballast tank. Can be made from a large pvc pipe with the ends capped. You get a valve for the bottom of the pipe that closes when the vacuume is on and opens when you stop milking and lets any moisture out The vacuume line from the pump is attached to the top of the ballast tank. Then the line that goaes to the bucket is lower on the tank you also need a vacuume gauge and a regulatoer attached to the line or tank. That way if you pump milk into the ballast tank it wont get into your pump. Thepartsdeptonline.com can help you with all the items you need. The little pumps you buy form harbor freight wont work long for milking.


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## Goat Town (Nov 20, 2010)

Matt,
I think you have a series of problems going on. First you've got to stop the moisture. Can you re examine your cleaning routine? Is it possible to clean without sucking water through your milk lines? Sucking water through the pulsator isn't good for it and soon you'll be rebuilding it. You could, of course upgrade from that S lid and Pulsator to a C type lid and pulsator. The C lid's design might eliminate that moisture. Furthermore you can't upgrade to interpulse pulsation fron the S lid.

You say the pump is spitting oil. Is it from the oil filler cap? If so stick a tube in it and vent it like some motorcyles vent their gas tanks. If it's spiiting oil from the exhaust put an oil mist eliminating muffler on it. 

I don't know much about the type of pump you are using. I've seen pictures of people using these types of pumps but have never seen one actually being used in a milking operation. I use rotary vane, oil lubricated vacuum pumps. I have three. One is directly mounted on a motor. I use it for cleaning. One is direct drive, meaning the motor shaft is directly connected to pump shaft, and one is belt driven. I suggest you look for a pump setup like these. Whether or not you get an oil lubricated pump or an oiless, is a matter of personal preference. My experience has been with oil lubricated pumps and I have found them to be more forgiving of moisture than oiless pumps, as I have rebuilt two oiless pumps due to moisture problems.


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