# Sick does-



## natty threads (Dec 15, 2010)

I don't have a temp on them- I have THREE thermometers, cannot find one when I need it.

I think they got too cold night before last-

I am in Alaska and there was a sudden temperature drop due to a windstorm.
I did not think or I would have brought them in that night, but the weather had been very calm, so I had left them out.
They had shelter, but once it got really cold and windy it wasn't enough.

My older mix breed dairy doe came in VERY slowly, and she wouldn't eat when she came in.
Her daughter, about a year old, also wasn't eating, but appeared normal other than that.

I called the vet about my older doe, Sammy, before I had noticed the younger, Star, was also not doing well.


He said to giver her calcium- I'm not looking at the bottle- the drench with potassium in it- which I did.
He said she might need another dose today.

I was on the homesteading today goat forum asking about this, and they said calcium every two hours, which I did for a few treatments last night.

I also gave them 6oz ea of propylene glycol last night, and again this morning.

They have had heat lamps and blankets on them.

Last night they were foaming at the mouth.
They were shaking, and Sammy was looking pretty hunkered and stiff in the neck.

This morning they are barely shaking and Sammy isn't nearly so stiff.
She got up on her own.

They both have been drinking water.

They both are refusing baking soda.

Sammy didn't have diarrhea until last night.
Star had diarrhea from earlier yesterday.

BOTH are due about Christmas.


WHAT do I do for them for their diarrhea?

I have Pepto, but I was concerned that it would block other medications from absorbing, so I didn't give them any last night.

Sammy normally has very nice "deer" ears, but they were sagging like a sad puppy's last night.

Today when I am not actually dosing her, they are canted back at half mast, so I think that is an improvement?

I will buy a thermometer when I go to town tonight.

They were foaming a little at about sixish this morning, but now, 11:30ish, they haven't been.

I didn't actually see foam coming out this am, but when they drank I could tell they were sloshing a little foam.



*** *** *** *** ***

They have brome hay and alfalfa pellets in front of them right now.

Star, the yearling, was nibbling a wee bit at the brome, and Sammy isn't touching either.


Sammy produces a gallon to a gallon and a half a day when she is milking; that seems to be relevant?

Thank-you for any help.

Bless up,
Jennifer


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## natty threads (Dec 15, 2010)

Thank-you Vicki.

I'm seriously seeking injectable B1 right now.

Grrr.

One more thing to put on my "have on hand" list.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Hopefully the girls on here who are from up north can help you out with this also. Vicki


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Foaming is ph problem. Don't let them decide if they want baking soda.
Give them something to neutralize immediately-mylanta would be best with buffers and no laxative like M of M. Which is best with ph of 11 but not with scours.
Did you just get new feed? Changes of any kind? Excess consumption?
Chilling can stall rumen function so it may be as simple as that. 
Good luck keep us updated.
Lee


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## natty threads (Dec 15, 2010)

Oh- sorry I missed that there is a response.

Star the young doe is doing well.

Sammy was 103.6 last night, 102 point I forgot this morning,

She is wuffly in her nose, starting to drip mucous from her vulva, under the heat lamp with a blanket on her shaking but not groaning.

Her poo is starting to solidify but isn't normal yet.

I think she is shaking from low blood sugar.

The good news is hubby had to hold her for me to get her temp.

They haven't foamed since yesterday morning, but now I know.


brb- forgot I have chickens to feed!

Poor chickens.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Is the older doe bred? Shaking is low blood sugar or shock. 
Do you have any karo or molasses or honey? I would wipe some on her tongue periodically.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

They likely need an antibiotic for pnemonia. With a temp like that and your cold weather, although it wouldn't be a temp worth noting in our weather, I bet it is in yours. Especially with the noisey breathing etc. Stress brings on pnemonia, goats don't die from most problems...pnemonia sets in with their ill and kills them. Do you have any naxcel or excenell or Tetracycline? V


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## natty threads (Dec 15, 2010)

Feed store has Tetracycline, I think.

So no on the penicillin?

Duramycin 10- ?

I'll go get it soon.

Sammy is nibbling hay.

I will honey her up.
I wasn't sure about giving her "sugar" because of the acidity, but she hasn't been foamy since yesterday morning.




If it weren't for you, Vicki, and the homesteadingtoday goat forum people, my goats would be dead.

I couldn't thank-you all enough.


LOVE!


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

If she is cold from lack of energy then if you need to you can deal with the acidity later but her rumen won't function if she is chilled so she will not be cudding and getting needed energy to keep body functions maintained properly. A bit of honey swiped on the tongue will not do much to acidify and you could also follow it up with mylanta. The goal is to get her providing enough energy that she stops shivering and starts cudding again. Watch to see if they are cudding normally. Did she stop shaking with the heat lamp on her?


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

I just read your posts on HT and you gave far more info there which enabled better answers.
I am sorry you have tried so many things particularly the propylene glycol. The dropped ears and groaning was pain from burning. It is very caustic and could have started the foaming and that is what is in nutridrench as well. It breaks down into more acid so you are shooting yourself in the foot with that.
You did not mention here that you had dropped their alfalfa at this late stage of gestation which would lead to calcium troubles particularly if chilled and shivering. You were given good advice to use CMPK injectible. Oral will not do it. Make a fist sized lump with 30 cc's on the side of the neck Subq every 4 hours until they are normalized or you have used a quart. 
Laverne gave you excellent advice all the way thru that thread. Keep track of temps since they are rising.


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## natty threads (Dec 15, 2010)

I can't get injectable anything right now-

I cannot get ahold of my vet.


The propylene glycol is caustic too?

I know the calcium drench is.

I'll try to cross update.

Thank-you all so much.

Sammy was eating alfalfa hay.

Star, the yearling, seems pretty normal today.

I am pretty sure Sammy was shaking from low blood sugar.

Her temp went down between last night and today.

Her ears are normal today, not drooping.

I'm going to give her more ProBios, check her breathing, 

brb


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## natty threads (Dec 15, 2010)

Sammy's ears are normal, she is not wuffling, her temp is 102.5 and she is not groaning.

She isn't really eating, but she's nibbling at her hay.

I'm trying to take a nap before I become hockey mom.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

If she is showing mucous because she is about to kid you need some injectible CMPK on hand for that as well. 
If all this shaking was from calcium imbalance then she will fall back into it with initiation of labor and lactation- both calcium intensive activities. Be sure to keep alfalfa in front of them 24/7.
Here in the lower 48 you can get calcium gluconate at feed stores- also injectible.
Stock up on that if you can and use it just like CMPK. But tell your vet it is imperative to have some CMPK or find another goat breeder that can help you. I would not do any more oral treatments. You are just trashing the rumen balance. When the rumen has an imbalanced pH the digestive enzymes degrade and bacteria die off. They cannot re-establish quickly if you keep adding things that kill them off. If the rumen is not cycling one to three times per minute they are not digesting properly. Put your hand on the rumen and time the rolls and contractions. If they are not cudding they will not be digesting properly because the mixing of saliva with the rumen contents buffers PH. Fiber digesting bacteria prefer a ph of above 6 which can only come with undisturbed cudding.
Probios is worthless for adult goats. It is only lactobaccilus for digesting milk products.
This is one big misunderstanding in goatland. It is for youngstock still on milk. Get a probiotic that is for digesting fiber (diamond V DFM) or steal a cud from a healthy goat and give that to the sick ones. Adults have some small compliment of lactobaccilus but dumping that culture in is NOT going to restore rumen function. They need a far wider compliment to jump start and acheive proper ph and restoration of digestive factors. It is just a coincidence of treatments that makes people think it works. It contributes very little. Waste of money - waste of hassling a sick animal. 
Good luck but be ready for metabolic crash at kidding and weak kids too. It is too late to go looking for meds once it has happened. You need to act immediately on the first missed meal. Have you given BoSe?
Get a new vet if he won't help you with supplies.


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

I live in the Rockies in Montana and we can get sudden weather changes here too. So far, I haven't had any major problems with adult goats getting chilled. I don't have the type of barn I can lock the goats into, but I monitor the weather reports on the NOAA website and if a major cold snap or storm is forcasted, I bed their houses with plenty of straw. Though my vet is good about selling me the meds I need when I call, I always be sure to have emergency meds such as injectable Norcalciphos (similar to CMPK), Thiamin, Nuflor, Banamine, BoSe and fortified B complex on hand. I wouldn't want something like a major snowstorm to prevent me from being able to get what I need in a hurry. When I'm expecting extreme cold, I make sure that the goats have extra hay available to keep their rumens full. I would definately want an injectable form of calcium around for when they kid. Buckrun is right about goats falling back into hypocalcemia when they kid. I had stablized one doe with oral meds prior to her kidding and she actually ate a good meal of alfalfa hay right after she kidded with quints. The next day she had a relapse and I took her to the vet. He said that the loss of fluids in birthing the large litter caused her problems. He gave me the Norcalciphos to pull her through and I have not been without a bottle since. He also had me give the propylene glycol for energy. Once a goat is eating hay, I no longer give the caustic stuff.


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## natty threads (Dec 15, 2010)

LOL- "Get e new vet."

Thanks Buckrun.

I would if I could.

If I could get anything other than what I've been giving I would.
IT ISN'T AVAILABLE.

My vet isn't returning my calls.

He is FAMOUS for this with sick goats.

THERE IS NO OTHER LARGE ANIMAL VET FOR HUNDREDS OF MILES.

So thanks for the heads up.

I am well aware that my goat is on the verge of death.

I appreciate you reminding me.
(That was sarcasm).

Bless up.


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## natty threads (Dec 15, 2010)

Ah- no edit function.

Delete the "I appreciate you reminding me" bit.

Sorry about that.


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## natty threads (Dec 15, 2010)

How do I get a cud from a goat?

My does see me coming and swallow.

Everyone thinks I'm going to dose them with something, apparently.

Poor goats.


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## natty threads (Dec 15, 2010)

Buckrun, I really am sorry I was snarky.

You have no way of knowing that I understand how serious this is.

Her rumen still isn't functioning properly.

I know this.

And I think her mouth is too sore from the oral doses of everything to eat properly.

And yes, it looks like she is going to kid today.

This vet, bless his heart, can set broken horse legs- I've seen the horses- , but he loses a LOT of goats.

He probably doesn't want to be in the middle of this at all, once it wasn't simple hypocalcemia.

My mom just got Goat Medicine for me.
(She first ordered it this time LAST year).

I'm running to her house to get it, crying on her for five minutes, then POUNDING the vet's phone.

OH I just thought of another goat person.


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## natty threads (Dec 15, 2010)

All right, she's laying down cudding.

What, exactly, do I need from my vet and how much?

I think she's normally about 175#.
Not the best at goat weight.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

You can hit modify after you post to change what you wrote. 
I know you are frustrated and I don't know if your goat is on the verge of death but just trying to help-it is for me about the goats- not about the people that own them. We live in similar circumstances vetwise making me the local goat vet.
So do the alternatives as best you can without a vet. Get what is available at feed stores or mail order NOW whatever you can get that is not RX. It's the way most of us did it for decades because there were no goat vets. OTC Cattle meds are at most feed stores. Just sit with them for awhile and they will relax and cud and then you can steal some. 
Kathie has relevant info for you. Gripe at her some too. :rofl

Lee


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## Little Moon (Dec 29, 2007)

Have you tried yogurt or kefir? Just to help settle the rumen and restore the Ph? As far as stealing cud, you probably just need to get in there and dig a hunk out - I have never done it myself, but if they are being bashful about it, you may have to be assertive. I too live pretty remotely and have had to make due when I can't get a vet or get to the vet. Have you tried tums to get some calcium into her? I have a friend that swears she successfully treated her saanen doe for milk fever with tums and calcium citrate - crushed and added to yogurt. Never tried it, but at this point it might be worth a shot. Good luck and keep us posted.

Anne


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## natty threads (Dec 15, 2010)

Sammy kidded-

I managed to contact a goat lady-

She came out and helped, which was awesome because I would have had a meltdown.

They are definitely premature, three does, one born dead.
About four pounds each on the other two.

I don't know if it was the right thing to do but she had me give them warm water mixed with molasses, and now they are getting two cc's of colostrum every 20 minutes or so?

I am so glad she was here.

The first two were not in their sacs and were breech, and came out together, the last one was the dead one, and she was in her sac.

Sammy seems okay.

The kidlets aren't quite warm enough.
They're by the woodstove in laundry baskets.

I don't hold much hope, but we'll see.

Lesson learned.

Hopefully I won't lose my Sammy.

Star seems to be doing all right.
Hopefully she won't go into labor tonight.

Thank-you for so much help.

Mom got Goat Medicine for me so I'll be reading that tonight.
They are nice babies, if bitty bitty.

Pics to follow, if they make it a couple of hours.

Bless !


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## natty threads (Dec 15, 2010)

Ah- they didn't make it.

Bless.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Glad you had some help. Did she pass afterbirth? Keep an eye on her temp and watch for the shaking in her hind legs. If her udder seems soft and pliable and not hot to the touch you can leave some milk in the udder so she won't be forced to make quite as much to help keep her calcium levels up. Is she eating?

That is a lot of reading but a good choice. Hopefully your fellow goat keeper can fill you in on local management styles for your climate and food sources. Did she give you any tips about supplies? Sorry to hear you lost the kids. 
Lee


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

So sorry about the little ones. That's tough way to start out. Hopefully things will improve for you.


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## natty threads (Dec 15, 2010)

It'll be all right.

I am not expecting Star to do well if she kids soon.

I have three more does due besides, though, but no dairy.
Two are part Kiko- the mom is half Boer half Kiko- she is a pita to milk but I get a gallon a day (I know- need to weigh it) when I force myself to do it, 
and she had triplets last time and nursed all three. 
That is a different story though. 
Her daughter may milk decently too and hopefully more easily. 
Then there's my daughter's Boer. 
She squats so we don't even try to milk her, lol.

Bless.


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## natty threads (Dec 15, 2010)

buckrun said:


> Glad you had some help. Did she pass afterbirth? Keep an eye on her temp and watch for the shaking in her hind legs. If her udder seems soft and pliable and not hot to the touch you can leave some milk in the udder so she won't be forced to make quite as much to help keep her calcium levels up. Is she eating?
> 
> That is a lot of reading but a good choice. Hopefully your fellow goat keeper can fill you in on local management styles for your climate and food sources. Did she give you any tips about supplies? Sorry to hear you lost the kids.
> Lee


She's pretty low-tech.
She doesn't use injectable anything but B.

She left a few messages for the vet.

He never called back.
Maybe he's out of town.



She was a big big big help birthing.

Two came out breech and together.

AGHHHHH!

I'm amazed she got them breathing long enough to have a couple of meals.

That was pretty good.

Sammy is eating pretty well.

She's eating grain- I got plain oats because it was the cleanest grain available.
Since she didn't eat much grain yesterday I kept it well under a pound over the day, I hope.

I had given her over a pound LAST YEAR when she kidded and she went into milk fever-

She has brome (clean grass hay) and alfalfa in front of her and dove into her alfalfa pellets and grain tonight.

She has molasses water too.
I'll warm that up when I milk her later tonight.

How often should I milk her?

Is twice a day enough?

If she recovers nicely I'd like to at least milk her.

Bless.


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## natty threads (Dec 15, 2010)

OH- yes- she passed afterbirth.

She didn't push hard kidding though.

I gave her raspberry tea and she did it.

The person helping me seemed to think the propylene glycol may have contributed to the miscarriage.
I don't think so.

I haven't looked it up.
It's FOR pregnant animals though, it seems.

Bless.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Please read about hypocalcemia.
And the 101 section dairy goat management on this site. A pound of grain is no where near enough energy for a 170 pound animal that milks over a gallon a day in the cold of your winter. In fact that is pretty much starvation rations unless you are feeding dairy quality alfalfa hay. She needs alfalfa non stop. The alfalfa will balance the grain ration so that you will not have 'milk fever'. If you plan to milk her and keep her in good flesh you will need to SLOWLY increase her grain ration and give equal amts of alfalfa pellets (but not that the same time so she does not sort). Do not increase ration rapidly as she will get a whole new set of problems.

With proper pre- breeding and gestation care you should not have to medicate bred does with anything particularly propylene glycol. It would be helpful to read the 101 section here as well. And print out relevant care for a barn notebook. Good luck with the next kidding-try to make sure that younger doe has plenty of alfalfa too. 
Lee


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## natty threads (Dec 15, 2010)

"The alfalfa will balance the grain ration so that you will not have 'milk fever'. If you plan to milk her and keep her in good flesh you will need to SLOWLY increase her grain ration and give equal amts of alfalfa pellets (but not that the same time so she does not sort). Do not increase ration rapidly as she will get a whole new set of problems."

Exactly- but I canNOT give her pounds and pounds of grain TODAY when she hasn't eaten ANY for days because she was sick.
She has alfalfa and pellets, she ate raisins and about a cup of calf manna.

I don't remember how much I gave her when she kidded last year- a pound and a half, I think- that precipitated hypocalcemia and she WAS getting alfalfa last year.

Since I cannot get the blasted vet out here, my first priority was to avoid hypocalcemia so I wouldn't have to drench her again.

Since the starting amount of grain for a HORSE that hasn't had any for a few days is a couple of pounds, I thought a pound for a goat that hadn't had any was plenty, especially considering what all she just went through.

I only halved what I would do with a sick horse.
It didn't seem very conservative to me.

She's still under heat lamps, drinking and eating well.

She looked really good @ 3:30 this morning when I checked on her.

I gave her milk back to her when I milked her last night and her bag wasn't tight so I didn't milk her all the way down.

That is always our "discussion" at milking- she needs to be in the stand or she'll have her nose in the milk in a flash.

She was getting six pounds a day last summer when she was milking.

It's okay. I'm not starving my goats.

I'll post a pic of her tomorrow.

I was surprised at how good she looked just now.
She said "Milk me."

I said "Tomorrow. It isn't really morning yet."

She didn't insist, so I left.
Seriously, she'll look back at her udder and look at me, and back at her udder.

She took "no" for an answer though.
*** *** *** *** ***


Maybe I should have-
Her kids normally would.
I didn't want to overstress her.

???


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

You are right to start slow with the grain- she will not digest it well after having her rumen stripped out. I mistakenly thought that was all you ever gave her.
She is telling you about her calcium levels and how hungry she is by wanting to drink her milk (which IMO is disgusting but that is personal opinion). It is good that she is eating but try to make her eat the alfalfa first. Calf manna will shut off her appetite because it is such high protein and sugar but it really is great she has an appetite for any thing with all she has been through. One tough cookie!



> I don't remember how much I gave her when she kidded last year- a pound and a half, I think- that precipitated hypocalcemia


Was she not used to eating grain during pregnancy?


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## natty threads (Dec 15, 2010)

I thought it was disgusting at first, too.
I'll let her do it though.
She knows what she's about.

This also happened these last few days-
The water out of the kitchen froze- hubby fixed it-
The water INTO the house froze- Nope- pressure switch was broken.
Hubby fixed that.

NOW I can do dishes, lol.

Ope- dishwasher is on the same circuit as the heat lamps and we're in an old mobile-
So I ran it once, and slacked on handwashing.

NOW the water OUT of the bathroom is frozen, and that is where the washer drains.

It was so much easier to give her her milk in her own bucket.

At this point I'm out of clean towels and counter space.

I'll be taking a load to Mom's tomorrow, for sure.

(Nobody go into labor for at least a week, please!)

Bless.


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## natty threads (Dec 15, 2010)

I think you get a modify button because you are a moderator?

I'm not finding mine.

The washing machine is on the bathroom drain.

No dishes- yeah yeah- I'll handwash today-

and no towels.

Poor poor hubby.

In all of that he ran a few goat errands too.

He IS a blessing.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

One important correction- Goats DO NOT know what they are about.
They will stand and strip an azalea like it is candy and die a short time later.
They do not get to decide what is good for them- they are not equipped for the modern world.
They would stand in front of a bucket of corn and down enough to impact their whole digestion so don't let her make too many decisions.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

It sounds like she is recovering.
Hope things continue to improve.


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## natty threads (Dec 15, 2010)

Goats are idiots with plants- she knows what she's about relative to milk and milking.

Last summer we had a bunch of mystery rabbit deaths in the yard.
I treat everything on the farm for coccidiosis a few times a summer- well not the dogs- not sure what to do, if they get it-

so it wasn't coccidiosis, which is my usual suspect.

FINALLY figured out the young buns were getting into the potato boxes, which yes, goats will do too, given the opportunity. They have square wire around them to drape visqueen over...

So we wrapped the potato boxes with visqueen so the buns couldn't get in.


Also, a friend of mine had a goat eat some Amanita muscaria (the bright red toadstools with the pretty white spots) a couple of years ago.

The poor thing died amidst visions of who-knows-what.

I'd have thought they could eat those on account of the reindeer urine/visionquest stories about the Samni (sp) in Lapland.

Sammy looks fab today.

Star looks NOTHING like she is going into labor.

Thank-you Yah for saving my does.

PLEASE I will stop trying to kill them.
Hopefully I've run out of ways.

(I had a visitor pig next to my goat pen this fall- visitor pig nearly bit of Tapioca's nose- that's my Kiko-Boer. 
Thankfully the vet called back and sewed her nose and mouth up).


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Great news about Sammy. When is Star due?


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## natty threads (Dec 15, 2010)

Christmas, but her tailhead is really really soft.
I'm concerned she'll lose hers too.

She is my daughter's, my dd is just 11, so it will be much harder.


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## natty threads (Dec 15, 2010)

I really wanted the dairy babies, and Sammy's were all does.

They just aren't as cold hardy as the Boers and I wasn't careful enough.

I will never do that again- leave them out at night in the winter- no matter how nice it seems to be-

I still have three that weren't sick- they're all my meat and meat crosses.

Taffy (Tapioca), my Kiko-Boer has good and plentiful milk, but she's a pain. I'm hoping her daughter BoChiva will milk well.
Taffy had triplets last time, as did Tinkerbell, my daughter's Boer.

Careful is the word now.

*** *** *** ***


I need to deworm Sammy.

I'm going to dose her with ivermectin.

???

Bless up.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

It was not the weather- they are adapted. It was not enough calcium in late gestation and then all the 'remedies' further disturbing digestion decreasing even more the level of nutrition at the time when the most is needed. Just keep alfalfa in the diet - they will be fine.


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## Laverne (Apr 4, 2010)

Thanks Lee and others for taking the time to explain things. Such good information for our learning process.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Laverne you gave her excellent advice all the way thru on HT!
Your goats are in excellent hands! We all need to help each other since it is still the rare vet that is goat savvy and most products are off label. But honestly...can someone explain yogurt on the vulva? :rofl :rofl :rofl
Lee


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## natty threads (Dec 15, 2010)

Their vulvas were scalded- swollen and red- I thought maybe from the Calcium drench (CMPK drench, right? It says "Calcium Drench").

I am not sure if men get anything like that- but women do get- well- issues.

Yoghurt helps sooth itching and inflamed lady parts.

They didn't jump and run when I did it, even after multiple times, so I think it helped.


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## natty threads (Dec 15, 2010)

Yes.

Thank-you all.

Instead of feeling lost and overwhelmed I feel like I have a handle on what has been causing all of the "mystery goat deaths" on the Peninsula.

People are moving to dairy from meat goats, and the dairy goats get colder faster.

They are getting chilled and their rumens are shutting down, then they are going into ketosis from not eating or maybe getting hypocalcemic, and people are thinking they can let them go a few days, "See how they do."

But with goats YOU CAN'T JUST WAIT AND SEE.

They will DIE.

Blessedly I jumped on it right away and didn't just give them calcium drench 1x and sit and wait.

I got all over them and I'm sure annoyed the dickens out of them, and I'm sure I did some unnecessary things and maybe some wrong things (too much drench maybe?), but my does lived thanks to the great advice I am getting.


I have told EVERYone who will listen, everyone at the feed store, EVERYone-

If they get too cold their rumens shut down and you MUST get the rumen working again ASAP.

If they don't eat they WILL go into ketosis and you MUST prevent that ASAP.

You CANNOT WAIT.

The raising them on grass hay thing will be harder to combat.
I will do what I can.

I know some goats are getting by on local timothy (shattered seed heads- THAT bloomed out) and really crappy local dairy mix- supposedly 16% protein-

This is what I know about that feed- when I gave it to my horses they lost condition and looked like scrubs.
And the hay- they wouldn't even eat it. They preferred straw to local hay- I used to buy the local hay for bedding because I knew they wouldn't eat it.

And for mulch.

I rolled out round bales to get grass growing in the yard.

That's what people are feeding their pregnant does.

I KNEW that was killing babies.

And I know SO many does that died kidding who subsist on that.

I don't want to tick off my vet, but man oh man, they cannot eat that stuff and produce.

The brome kept my horses in good condition, so I am not afraid of the brome hay.

I'm getting paid for a goat today (one I sold a few weeks ago), so I will buy a bale of alfalfa tomorrow for Sammy and Star, since they are not scarfing their pellets like I would like to see.

My meat ladies are, though.

Sheesh- I hope they don't get picky like Sam Sam and Star are being right now!


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## Laverne (Apr 4, 2010)

It's sounds like there is a real feeding challenge up there. Shipping in feed is expensive. Goats need a super good feeding program to survive in that environment especially. 
Since your girls are being picky and arent' hitting the pellets real good yet, trying to recover, me I'd make a concoction of crushed Citrical calcium to keep levels up. Or better yet a multi mineral with the calcium citrate, plus zinc ect. in it. I'd also add other things to it, copper glycinate (one capsule every other day) from health food store since you don't have Copasure ,C, Lysine, E, extra D-2000 iu a day for awhile if they're not getting much sun. I use a little pudding, maybe yogurt, as a binder then drench. Give every day till they are eating pellets well.


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## natty threads (Dec 15, 2010)

Thank-you Laverne.


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