# All milk for liquid vs part water?



## Huminbird

Currently I use all milk for my liquid but I am tempted to switch to just enough water to mix my lye with.

My bars are a bit inconsistent, even with straining and using the stick blender in my lye mixture, I still get spots of (curdled milk? saponified milk fats?) in some of my soaps. This doesn't always happen but it seems to be happening more of late.

Vicki, in the straining milk thread, said that she starts with water and that makes it so much easier and it got me to thinking that maybe this is a good way to go.

Will it make that much of a difference in the quality of my bars to switch to part water? I am thinking of doing a little over half my liquid as milk for label appeal.

I don't want to disappoint my customers quality wise but I would like to simplify my method as the business grows and this seems like it would make the whole process that much easier.

I will do a test batch of course but I would like other people's opinions as well.

What did you start out with? All water? All milk (this is all I have ever done)? Half and half?

What do you do now and why do you chose that method?


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## hsmomof4

I do about 1/2 & 1/2. A little more milk than half, and the other half is usually aloe vera juice (frozen in ice cube trays). But I've also done beer, water, tonight I'm going to do green tea. I like it because I don't have to worry about burning the milk. I do all milk for my laundry soap (long story) and I don't worry about keeping it cool because of it being laundry soap, and it usually turns very yellow, even though it's half frozen. Using some other liquid that doesn't react as much with the lye just makes it easier for me. I add the milk at emulsion (warmed up slightly). I'm pretty sure I did all milk for my first few batches but I know that I went to this method very early on.


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## NubianSoaps.com

Test it. Do a few batches with 50/50 water to lye, then when the lye cools off, add it to your oils and then after it is emulsified add the rest of your liquid in room temp milk. Then give them away to folks and don't tell them there is any difference....or tell them to use the pink bar (all goatmilk and the green bar (half water half milk) and get back with you on which they like better. For my test there was zero difference, most thought I was trying to see which scent they thought was stronger! Vicki


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## Faye Farms

I started with all milk and quickly went to 50/50. It's so much easier to not have to worry about burning milk. I do things a bit different and mix up everything at once-oils, FO, additives (if throughout the whole bar) and milk. Then I add my lye/water. The only thing I add at trace anymore is mica if I am swirling. I couldn't tell the difference between 100% milk and 50/50 either so why go through the bother of messing with frozen milk.


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## Jenny M

Stacy,
I'm making green tea soap too. Please let me know how that works out for you. Will you also use some tea leaves? I did that a long time ago & it work well as a mild exfoliate. I have a FO that is called Spa Tonic from WSP & it's description says green tea, lemon, sage & a couple of other things. Smells so good. I want to use that for the scent. What sent will you use?

I'm really trying to branch out from just goat milk soaps. Aloe is working well for me & want to try beer maybe. What else?


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## hsmomof4

I haven't decided on a scent yet. I thought about doing tea leaves in there for part of a batch and no leaves for the other, but I haven't really decided. I was going to make it yesterday and it was just too late (and I was too tired!) by the time I would have gotten around to it.


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## Anita Martin

I did a batch of beer soap the other day. My plan was to do the top with water so it would be whiter...like the foam on a beer. Well, I measured out my water in a white plastic container and added the lye slowly, stirring of course. 

Well, (this was the first time I ever made soap with water) it started to smoke or steam...not sure which. The plastic container got pretty hot and I was afraid it would melt all over the place so I dumped it down the sink followed by lots of water. 

Did I do something wrong or is the steaming/smoking normal? I always use frozen cubes of milk and any other liquids, including the beer I used so have no idea how to do this. 

So, my top wasn't white, but I took a log of soap to the market and sold 2 bars that were not even cured yet! I did a blend of bay rum, frankenscene and lime, plus 12 oz of beer in a 7 pound batch. 

Next time, I want a WHITE top. I'm lye/water phobic! I sure would hate to have to buy big bags of ice to mix my lye with...


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## Kalne

I just dump lye all at once into water with no problem. When I make beer soap I do the same thing....leave the bottom uncolored and no milk for the 'foam'.


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## Huminbird

So for my water and lye mixture 1/2 lye amd 1/2 water right? After reading about the smoke I am more nervous about using water than I am with milk.


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## MF-Alpines

I think the smoke is actually vapor. Don't lean over the mixture. A couple of weeks ago I added lye to aloe juice, unfrozen, and some vapor condensated on my safety glasses. I had a small burn on one side where the bottom rim touches the face. Plus it took forever for the lye/aloe mixture to cool. I freeze my aloe now. Much easier and no vapors.


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## Huminbird

I did it! Lol, my first batch that wasn't 100% gm for my liquid. On other websites its the milk that is an achievement. 

I can see how much more streamlined and how much easier it could make soaping in the future if I do choose this method. Today it was a bit of a mess and actually took me longer because I was experimenting with it and changing my soaping routine. 

What I learned:

First off, make sure to stir that lye water one last time before you pour it into the oils...I didn't the first time hand had quite a pretty crystal build up on the bottom of my pitcher that I had to add more water to to dissolve and then pour into my oils.

Next, it moves much faster for me. Usually with lavender EO I have all the time in the world to stir the heck out of the thing and have to let it sit for 10 minutes in the molds before I can even texture the tops at all. Not this time. I mixed my milk into my oils and then poured the lye water into those. It got thick in just a few minutes of using the stick blender, I had to add my EO quick, stir stir stir to make sure it was mixed in well and then glop it into my mold. Usually I am pouring a near liquid. It went a little slower in my next batch when I added my lye to the oils, mixed for a few minutes and then added the milk. Frankincense and Myrrh was that scent, I wanted to try out something dark and something light to see if I still get the white spots when I use 1/2 water instead of all milk. Slower but took only about half the usual time that this scent takes to start setting up my soap.

I will have to cut it tomorrow and show if it is indeed smoother than my usual batches. I regularly get white spots in my soaps and I am hoping this evens them out. White spots in my white soaps and brown spots in most soaps that have a dark discolor due to the EO or FO.


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## Huminbird

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_RaI8nkzxprU/TUdCbwr012I/AAAAAAAAA4Y/kbLMQ_NA7BQ/s288/IMAG0807.jpg


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## Huminbird

Trying to post the picture of my newest ugly FO soap but can only link to it, otherwise its just not working.

That was Blackberry Sage and it looked smooth pouring in but came out with all those white spots. They do not zap at all and I am having this problem, not usually near that bad, in quite a few of my soaps. This is what I am hoping the water mix will cure.

If anyone knows what causes them let me know. Can to many hard oils do this?


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## Huminbird

And yet another update:

I just checked on the soap and it is HOT.

I rarely have full gel and have only had the tops of one or two batches crack over the years. Both are gelling and the lavender is cracking on top. What does water do that makes it so much hotter? 

So, it is out in our entry way now (low 30s out there) and hopefully won't crack any more.


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## MF-Alpines

Huminbird said:


> Trying to post the picture of my newest ugly FO soap but can only link to it, otherwise its just not working.
> 
> That was Blackberry Sage and it looked smooth pouring in but came out with all those white spots. They do not zap at all and I am having this problem, not usually near that bad, in quite a few of my soaps. This is what I am hoping the water mix will cure.
> 
> If anyone knows what causes them let me know. Can to many hard oils do this?


Could it be undissolved milk fat? Maybe Barb will know.


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## hsmomof4

Becky, I got to thinking about your soap being hot...ordinarily, it would be hotter with all milk, everything else being equal. So was everything else equal? When you use milk with your lye, it's frozen, and you probably work hard to keep it cool so that the milk doesn't burn. Was your water ice, too? If not, that would mean that your lye/water mixture was probably at a higher temp than what you usually use, which would definitely move things along.


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## Huminbird

Stacy - Come to think of it yes, the water was probably much warmer when I poured it than I would allow it to be if it were milk. 

I unmolded and cut this morning and it is lovely soap. Usually my darker soaps are very splotchy when I first cut and then everything turns an even dark brown but not this time, actually the darker soap stayed quite a bit lighter (frankincense and myrrh) than usual and I am wondering if it will turn into the chocolate colored bar it usually does.

Cindy - I do suspect that my splotches have something to do with the milk fat. Does it start to saponify before the other oils because it comes into contact with the lye first? All of my milk is frozen solid when I use it, sometimes frozen, thawed and then frozen again into the correct size of chunk. I don't use milk cubes, I found them way to hard to get out of the cube tray.

Thanks!


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## NubianSoaps.com

Spray your cube tray with pam first.


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## nightskyfarm

I float my cube tray in hot water for 15 sec or so, they all come right out.


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## MF-Alpines

What about one of those standalone ice makers? Has anyone ever used one of those? Do you think it would work?


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## SimplyE

Huminbird said:


> Currently I use all milk for my liquid but I am tempted to switch to just enough water to mix my lye with.
> 
> My bars are a bit inconsistent, even with straining and using the stick blender in my lye mixture, I still get spots of (curdled milk? saponified milk fats?) in some of my soaps. This doesn't always happen but it seems to be happening more of late.
> 
> Vicki, in the straining milk thread, said that she starts with water and that makes it so much easier and it got me to thinking that maybe this is a good way to go.
> 
> Will it make that much of a difference in the quality of my bars to switch to part water? I am thinking of doing a little over half my liquid as milk for label appeal.
> 
> I don't want to disappoint my customers quality wise but I would like to simplify my method as the business grows and this seems like it would make the whole process that much easier.
> 
> I will do a test batch of course but I would like other people's opinions as well.
> 
> What did you start out with? All water? All milk (this is all I have ever done)? Half and half?
> 
> What do you do now and why do you chose that method?


My 100% GM soap does this exact thing and it is making me nuts. I do the same thing, SB and strain, to no avial. Did you figure anything out? I too have considered going to a 50/50 mix for the same reason. I find that it does this with milk that seems to have more fat in it. Would love to hear your thoughts on this after a month has gone by.


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## Huminbird

Okay, it has been a little over a month and this is what I learned:

What I don't like: The soap that I made with 50% water is a tiny bit softer and I am not quite sure why that is. It also has more tiny bubbles in it but I believe that is my fault for not letting the water cool enough before adding it to the oils and that sped everything up quite a bit. In the shower the water soap is not as bubbly. The recipe was the exact same as usual besides the water being added. I find this to be true as well as my hubby. It still lathers well but has more of the big bubbles and less of the creamy lather that I love with goat's milk soaps.

What I do like: Easier to make and I didn't have any of the spots I have been experiencing. I believe that once I got a system down with this it would be much faster to make. About half my soap making time is spent on the milk mixing with the lye. I use a solid frozen chunk of milk to start out with and this may be why it takes me so incredibly long. 

Conclusion: I do like the looks of the smooth 50% water bar. It does have tiny bubbles but I believe that is just my error. I will not switch any time soon to 50% water for my soaps. Only one in 10 customers actually read my ingredients label, maybe even less but to me that 100% goats milk is a selling point and I can tell a difference in the lather so I imagine they can too. Or maybe I am only imagining it  Also, changing all my labels would be a PITA.

Maybe someday when I grow huge and have to have uniform bars for all of my multitude of stores (I wish I had a multitude) then I will figure out the perfect 50% recipe but its not going to happen yet. If I tried it again I think I would have to change other parts of my recipe to make up for the lower use of goat's milk. Maybe more of a superfat, maybe less coconut oil.

Happy soaping and experimenting!

Becky


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## SimplyE

What is your lye solution? I wonder if this might be part of the problem, as well? I am currently at 35%, but am thinking about dropping it down to 33%. I seem to have more success with it at 33% these days.


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## prairie nights

Becky, 

instead of a huge chuck of frozen milk, you can pour and freeze your milk into ice cube trays, this does reduce lye solution time quite a bit  Good points on your discoveries with 50% water and all milk. 

Jana


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## Huminbird

My water discount is 25% which I don't believe is to high. It did get worse when I did my discount, as apposed to no discount like I did for years. The spots also started when I changed to 110 coconut oil but I don't know if that would have this effect or not. Sometimes I don't get the spots hardly at all and other times I get a pretty splotchy bar.


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## BearKat0205

I am a beginner soap maker and all I have ever used is all milk. Our goat isn't being as cooperative as I would like, and although we have more babies coming soon, 1/2 and 1/2 sounds good. 

Can you freeze the water just like the milk? Then do you warm the milk and add it with the oils?


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## NubianSoaps.com

There is no need to freeze the milk. I just put my lye container in half of the sink, start adding cold water to the sink, put my water into my container (its actually a stainless ice bucket from walmart that I keep a large slotted stainless spoon in) then with a personal fan running, dump in the lye. It sitting in cold water cools it down quickly, by the time I am through melting butters and oils, measuring out scent and lining a mold (and talking to the person taking the class) it's cold enough to simply add to the butters and oils and start stick blending. If my milk isn't from the morning milking and luke warm, I simply nuke it a minute to bring it to room temp. I add the lukewarm milk to the butters and oils and lye after it has been stick blended a few minutes...you can see emulsion, when the butters and oils are no longer see through but before you have got to pudding  V


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## 2Sticks

Vicki,
I decided to try the room temperture milk on two batches. My soap usually traces slow when I use frozen milk, but as soon as I started mixing the room temp milk in with a spoon after the oils started to emulsify the milk seemed to accelerate trace like crazy before I could even get the fragrance in. Normally it takes about 45 min to reach trace. Both times I used the room temp milk it only took 9 minutes to trace. Is this supposed to happen?


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## NubianSoaps.com

9 minutes is normal, 45 minutes to trace, do you really think I would have the patience to stick blend for 45 minutes  9 minutes isn't acceleration, unless you went past emulisifying. Emulsify is about 3 minutes in with the stickblender, the butters and oils are smooth, no longer oil looking, the lye has married with the butters and oil, so it will no longer burn the butterfat in your milk, dump in the milk, stick blend maybe 5 minutes more, add scent, when it is thickening pour. I pour turkey gravy soap....not white gravy, and certainly not pudding. There is a fine line between too soon and just right...I do have to wait for a lot of my soap to set in the mold in fact I have enough time with most to wash out my soap bucket and clean the stick blender, before I swirl or texture the tops. V


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## 2Sticks

Ok, then I didn't do anything wrong, it just seemed so fast. I love the turkey gravy, white gravy and pudding. It gave a great visual! 
Guess I'll keep it up, since it the way it's supposed to be :lol


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