# What is this? What will clear it up? *Udder Pictures*



## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

I am sooo sick and tired of dealing with whatever it is on this udder. She's had it for a while now. I have tried everything I can think of to get rid of it. We have used Chlorhexidine (SP?), Iodine, Penicillin, Triple Antibiotic Ointment, Nuflor (That worked last year.), Ivomec 1% by injection, Ammens foot powder and new wipes (Cant remember the name would have to check). Some of this stuff was recommended to me last year when we had this problem with this doe but it didn't work last year and it's not working this year.

I have missed two shows because of this udder problem. And will probably be missing the one in July unless I either sell her or dry her up...I don't see getting her cleared up by July...

:sigh

She's 4 yrs old. Freshened 4x. She had this problem last year. Same thing. She gets free choice baking soda, free choice Right Now Onyx Mineral. Utd on worming, vaccines, bose, ect ect.

Is there anything else I can do?

Thanks!

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## Hollybrook (Jul 17, 2009)

Everything you been using is to treat Bacterial infections what you have looks to be Viral, Varicella look up Goat Pox or Goat hearpes. has she been stressed?


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Staph. Have you vaccinated with Lysigin? 
I think Ellie would tell you to wipe with Today.
I suggest also boost her zinc intake. Do you bolus?
Nuflor is respiratory specific. 
Ivermectin is for parasitic organisms.
Topical Antibiotic is for secondary infection and you need to keep it dry not moist.
Get some zinc citrate for people and put it in something appetizing. I make cornmeal/ molasses balls for meds. Also try pumpkin seeds if you have them for extra zinc and best of all if you have access to Mineral Max2 it is very high zinc and can do wonders but is RX. It would be your quickest fix for deficiency.


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## hyamiranda (Jul 24, 2009)

We've had a number of animals with skin conditions. The best general thing we've found for alleviating them or at least minimizing them is peppermint. It has helped tremendously with many kinds of problems. That's my two-cents and that might be all it's worth, but it might be worth a try.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

There is no goatpox in the US.

The problem with all these topical applications is that this is staph dermatitis, it is in the skin not on the skin. Topical applications will only work if you break the small pustuels open and you don't want to do this. This is exactly why we started vaccinating for staph dermatitis with Lysigin.

You can see that it started in the moistness of between her leg and udder, why you want to keep the use of anything with a petroleum base away from here, between the layer of goo an the skin is the perfect temp and moistness to cause all this. It is also why if you freshened her later in the year with more sunlight she wouldn't get this, also being pregnant through the spring staph dermatitis season, with the heightened immunity of being bred, even in wet bedding does don't get this. Vicki


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

When we had a thankfully brief outbreak of staph, we got on it right away with chlorhexidine sprayed on the entire udder before milking, with our standard iodine based teat dip after, plus vit C, zinc, a booster on her lysigin vaccine and making sure she was bolused. Cleared up within a couple of weeks. It was never as bad as yours, though. With everything that you've tried, it's possible that you've not tried any of the things that actually would have worked for long enough. The chlorhexidine was as much to prevent spread (it kills everything...bacteria, fungi, etc) and any secondary issues as anything. I too, recall that Ellie has mentioned using Today topically for staph...I was planning to do that next, but it started clearing up so I never bothered.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

Yep, I agree with all the above. When we started in goats Ava had this all over her udder. I also went a step further and examined her bedding. at the time I was using cedar chips and straw. I removed the chips and that helped alot too. For a long time now I've been useing a bottom layer of cedar pellet and then a nice thick top layer of pine chips. This has worked wonderfully. Tam


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## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

I vaccinated w/ lysigin. 
The chlorhexidine was definately used long enough but it didn't work, at all. 

If this was staph, wouldn't antibiotics work?


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## Laverne (Apr 4, 2010)

My doe had a coat on and the elastic around her back legs rubbed and made her get some staph bumps. I put 7% iodine on them and they cleared up.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Since it comes back each year, you know with her it's hormonal, environmental and/or an immune problem. Antibiotics treat none of the above. All chlorhexideen will do is to keep her skin conditioned and like the antibiotics, keeps secondary infection at bay. For us it was several things all at once, straw bedding (previously straw couldn't be found, copper, calcium, and vaccination. If you continue with to many treatments, and you could be there already with the open heads on some of the sores, pemphgus can set in which is her immune system in overdrive, like shingles in people. Then you go down the steroid route. A quick cure before shows aint happening and can cause you more problems than you have now.

Naxcel and pennicillin work on staph, but not alone. Nuflor working was a complete coincidece. Bedding, sit in her stall and really see the condition of your floors. Ventalation. Is she CAE negative? Our worst cases were always our positive does. Once again a break in immunity. Vicki


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

She's the only one who gets this, right? So unless its genetic suseptibility, what's different about her?

Does she have any habits, food or behavior, that is different from the others? Likes to lay in sun/shade, always in the tight corner or the one that doesn't care where she lays and will lay in muddy areas? Always the first or last into the wet browse or dusty feed remants?

It doesn't look exactly like the environmental staph we see a lot of here, mostly on the white dogs, but those respond well to either chlorhexidine or peroxide based cleansers, the secret being to leave them on for the recommended time before rinsing. You could try that.


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## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

She's not the only one who had this but she's the ONLY one that I can't get cleared up.

She doesn't do anything out of the ordinary...She's fed the same thing as the herd. Lays with the herd. ect ect.


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

hmmm... and what clears it up for the others?


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## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

Acapella, I popped the spots open, cleaned them with the wipes I use, then applied triple antibiotic oinment. They were gone in a few days. Misty has a few pimple looking spots on her area right above the teat. So I used the wipe and "scrubbed" that area really good. I am not sure if I popped them open or not but they cleared up with in a few days. Flurri hasn't had it. Hannah was given Nuflor. Leah's cleared up by using just the wipes but I popped them open to. I didn't know about the ointment when I popped them on her...it seems like if I can pop them, clean them, and apply the oinment they clear up with out any problems. And Delilah has them at the moment but I did the 7% iodine that was suggested by Laverne and it's clearing her up. I am using the 7% on Orchy to but no luck.

These guys didn't break out all at once either. Otherwise I would be focusing on what was going on at that time...It's all at random times. Except with orchy...She's had this issue since Feb.


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

hmmm... my experience with environmental staph on dogs is that the bumps start oozing and crusting long before they are poppable... maybe its different on goats or udders?

interesting that you could pop/clean them and more didn't come back. Sounds like opportunistic thing that takes advantage of some little dip in immune response and so why is hers so different... don't you wish we could test for proper copper levels and other markers? 

Its sounds like you do all the routine good stuff, its hard to write one off and just say they are geneticall suseptible when we can't be sure they got adequate levels up. On the other hand, is this Vicki's point that ones that have problems on our routine management and need special intervention should be reevaluated? Or some thrive under different conditions and management than others?

I've had good results with various herbal immune boosters for my animals and me, do you have anyone local, a vet Naturopath or Herbalist that knows what often helps around there? Yes, some of you will roll your eyes and laugh, go ahead  but I was extremely skeptical too and some of it seems to work. "Geriatric cat vit/mineral supplement" from the Naturopath vet worked miracles on some dogs that were not getting proper blood test/titer for immunity responses. Elderberry has worked miracles for my respiratory infections for example, and another Naturopath's Rx for an autoimmune/chronic problem I was having had dramatic improvement on blood tests for certain immune markers that were being done by the traditional Dr... so I'm skeptical but some of it works...


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## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

LLB101 said:


> interesting that you could pop/clean them and more didn't come back.


I know, I went out on a limb and tried the popping/cleaning. I was very careful about it when I popped them and cleaned and then applied the ointment. So maybe that is why it didn't spread. I dont know.


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## Ozark Lady (Mar 21, 2010)

Are you sure there is no goat pox in America?
I am not an expert.
But, my does came down with a pox, and about 2 weeks later my children all came down with chicken pox. I assumed the goat pox was the same virus. This was over 20 years ago, so possibly it has been eradicated since then. Or my goats had chicken pox? Same blisters, same sores, same time frame, and the goats had it first.
They were not exposed to other livestock... only my wild children! ha ha.

And the children were checked by the doctor. It was definitely chicken pox.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Yep you can google it or look it up in Goat Medicine and Merck. What you will find is what we thought we knew 20 years ago was very little...shoot we called CAE arthritis and though CL was found in bloodlines  Vicki


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## Ozark Lady (Mar 21, 2010)

You just wait till I see my children (now grown) and tell them they gave chicken pox to my goats. And children and goats were immune to it after the one bout. It never showed up again in either, and yes the boys have the chicken pox marks still.

I am wondering if the bumps could be blackberries? cactus thorns? What is in the pasture that she could have brushed into, that comes back at this time of year? I pulled some really thorny vine last week, and it broke me out from the sharp spines.


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## adillenal (Feb 6, 2009)

If I saw that on one of my does I would think she laid down in a fire ant bed.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

All you have to do is keep pumping the copper into them and they will resist this problem with their own immunity. Been there done that for several herds locally. It's mineral imbalance. Most things are. 

Make minerals more palatable in stress times like kidding and like now in the heat when our girls don't want grain they get yeast in the minerals to help with uptake. It's nutritional and if it's not then you cull.
IMO-opening the skin when you do not have to is just risky biz. Putting petroleum products on any open wound is risky biz. 

Goat pox is restricted to Africa north of the equator the Middle East and Central Asia and India so says wiki.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

To continue Lee's idea....not alot of talk about whole herd health anymore. Where the least of those, are the ones showing you the problems in the whole herd. Lots of talk how some breeds or some goats need more copper...no, they show the defficency first that is herdwide, just more overtly because of their own immunity, where they stand in the pecking order, their production (kids and/or milk numbers). Vicki


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

Vicki, so what do you think that was 20 yrs ago?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Staph  It's nearly always staph. Especially back then when we all fed high protien sweet feeds and grass hay, sheep and goat minerals, few even talked about alfalfa with their goats, we could get really nice bermuda grass hay with 18% protien (world feeder) for $1 a bale in the fields. So you put our copper defficency we know we had now, our high iron, high zinc and no calcium you can imagine the problems we had in our herds with pregnancy, worms (and all we had was TBZ and Ivermectin was new and being injected), feet, coats. I was very lucky in meeting the right people all at the right time, copper bolusing, adding alfalfa pellets and vaccinating with Lysigin. When ridding the herd of all the problems mineral defficency give you we milked less does for more milk and rarely had kidding difficulites anymore. Vicki


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## Ozark Lady (Mar 21, 2010)

Did you say that other goats have it?
Have you noticed any of the postules on your hands?

Orf is an exanthemous disease caused by a parapox virus and occurring primarily in sheep and goats. It is also known as contagious pustular dermatitis, infectious labial dermatitis, ecthyma contagiosum, and sheep pox[1]:393, thistle disease[2] and scabby mouth. Orf virus can also infect humans.[2]

It has been recorded since the late 1800s and has been reported from most sheep- or goat-raising areas including those in Europe, the Middle East, the United States, Africa, Asia, Alaska, South America, Canada, New Zealand and Australia.

I wonder? Do we still have this pop up from time to time, and it leads to the confusion?


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

20 yrs ago I don't know... I was recently out of grad school, so I knew nothing, right? LOL.

but 30 yrs ago, I didn't know any goat "breeders" per se, but there were "the poor man's cow" goats around, and the firebreak brush eaters. We could afford a cow and had lots of beef ones, but were too lazy for a dairy cow they are too much of everything! The other goats were firebreak brush eaters, and the ethnic groups that provided some farm labor ate some... but generally goats were seen as survivalists, requiring close to no care. A dairy goat might get wormed if her production was off or she was near the sheep getting wormed anyway... One might get stitched up if cut on something, but that was about it. I don't remember hearing about any issues with them.

And when I lived overseas, goats were again living on the fringes, not coddled like ours and rarely seem to have problems. Now, maybe the near east is native territory and mineral rich browse, and I don't think they get the production levels we want, but they sure pick the best milkers for getting treats and the worst ones get eaten and that's that. 

Part of me thinks I'm missing some vital info, that its not how it seemed, like Vicki says, we never REALLY know what another farm's practices are 

Part of me also wonders if ours are really becoming different animals with all the care...


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

I only know orf from sheep, but it didn't look anything like the pic posted here.


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## Laverne (Apr 4, 2010)

When my doe got the staph bumps on her udder I opened up every pustule that showed up and squeezed it out, cleaning with alcohol and finishing up with the 7% iodine. Cleaning with alcohol the inside of the leg that may have rubbed on pustules. I didn't want any of these to open up on their own for possible spread. If they were ready to open up it would be in my presence. Then making sure every bump had iodine on it. I didn't want any messy ointment attracting dust, dirt ect. I believe the bumps need to be kept dry.
With the OP's doe there it is such a mass of pus pockets under pus pockets in the one area. I would think keeping on top of it for 3 weeks would be necessary.


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## Ozark Lady (Mar 21, 2010)

I had dairy goats more than 20 years ago, and yes, we vaccinated for lepto, rabies, black leg, and wormed them with alternating wormers on schedule. I routinely gave vitamin b shots to any puny goat, and eye lids and mouths were checked for anemia.
I spent a fortune on vets... and the common killer for me was: coccidiosis.

All we had for coccidiosis was sulmet, but we routinely had blue water... and days of not using the milk.
It is better now, with all the tools, but mysteries still pop up, huh?
I was milking tonight, and I always massage the udder, and I noticed bumps, but these are healing tick bites. I doubt they would look like those. I also got alot of mosquito bites. Could these possibly be bug bites?


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