# Transmission of CAE to Adult Does



## Horsehair Braider (Mar 11, 2011)

Has anyone ever had an adult doe, who previously tested CAE-, turn CAE+ on subsequent tests? I've become curious about how this disease is vectored. I've read that transmission to an adult is "rare" but I wondered just how rare it is. With more people testing, maybe there is more information available. 

If this has happened to you, what did you think was the probably cause?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

No, even living with CAE positive does I have never had a doe convert to positive...I have had a buck who bred CAE positive does, inlcuding pen breeding that never converted to positive and was tested last before he was put down sterile at 9. Vicki


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## lonestrchic23 (Jan 7, 2011)

Thank you for posting this as it was something I wanted to ask. I was chatting with a breeder about a possible purchase and she sent me her herd test results.....All were negative with the expection of one buck who was housed separate with a wether and was to pen breed her does.

She has daughters from him who are all negative, and the does he bred remain negative.

But.....so many people say that they won't show because they'll pick up CAE, won't house negatives adults anywhere near positives, and was told that was because it could be transfered by things such as sneezing, eating from the same feeders or if a positive animal gets an injury that a negative animal comes into contact with...

So... I've just been confused on all of it and its hard to sort reality from the tall tales. 

Is there another way to transmit it other that by colostrum or milk?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Think about it....there is no such thing as an old herd who did not have CAE. That is simply a fact that no older breeders will admit to...they had CAE although they will say they didn't but they didn't test to know. So how if all of us who have had goats for almost 30 years, did we get our CAE to start with if not from the older original folks who had goats for 40 years? Thye sold us CAE positive goats...sure we were the ones who tested them to find out, they REALLY didn't know  but it came from somewhere. So how do Tim and I etc.....have CAE negative herds if spit, poop, pee, buggers, the wind blowing at shows, if CAE is that easy to catch how did we simply by pasteurising and heat treating get negative herds? I didn't depopulate my herd for CAE, I in fact purchased others milkers who were non symptomatic excellent milkers, champions in fact...to milk on my dairy....I still was able to move to negative with heat treating and pasteurising and catching kids and moving them out of the barn with the positive does.

Breeders use all the spit and buggers 'stuff' to have something to blame it on when a goat of theirs turns positive...she never turned, she was just tested! So now those with goats for 10 years bought CAE from breeders who have had goats for 20 years.....will we be still having this conversation in 2020? Let's hope not! V


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

I have two adult goats who will drink a whole bucket of milk if I set it down for one second. Luckily all were just tested negative, even after some milk-scarfing incidences, but in a herd with positive does and careless milk-maids, this would be disastrous.


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## Horsehair Braider (Mar 11, 2011)

Crystal, I have heard those exact same stories. I've even heard CAE can be carried into your clean herd by the dirt on people's shoes. When I first heard about CAE years ago, people were terrified of it and the way everyone thought at that time, we were all sort of "doomed" to have it on our place no matter what we did, since a stranger could walk onto our place and all our previously negative animals would suddenly get it. 

But since then a lot more science has been done and there are more sensible ideas floating out there... and it got me to wondering if anyone had actually had a doe go from negative to positive - an adult doe, not a kid. I know a lot of ideas have changed about livestock disease. 

It makes sense that if this disease was so easy to transmit, people with squeaky clean herds like Vicki's would not go to shows. Naturally there are other concerns about disease at a show and I'm sure precautions are taken, but still... However if anyone has gone to a show with a negative doe and then she turned positive, well, I think everyone would want to know about that. But from what Vicki has said, perhaps it was simply that they *assumed* the goat was negative without testing her, and then when they did test her and she was positive, they blamed it on some stranger walking onto their place or whatever.


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## chell20013 (Feb 7, 2011)

I also think it's possible that people get CL and CAE confused. CL is very contagious and easily transfered from one animal to the next. I hear people around my area using the two terms interchangeably because they have no idea what either one really is.


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## DostThouHaveMilk (Oct 25, 2007)

Here is some of my experience. Take it for what it is worth.
We have a few Positives left. Not many. We have had positives since we tested (about 8 years into owning goats and dam raising all those years). Turns out around 3 of our original 5 does were likely positive (they were all dead by the time we tested).
Now, our testing is not annual. We have only performed "whole mature herd" tests twice in the past 5 or so years. I would need to check. Whole herd meaning all adult stock, not including kids. Having said that, we do spot testing each year on suspects, on Prevention raised doelings, on stock being sold for breeding and this year we plan another "whole mature herd" test since I can hopefully earn the $400+ dollars required to do so.
I have had previously test negative does test positive on subsequent tests. One just this year. I fully expected her to and had been waiting for it to happen. Lil Bunny FooFoo nursed her test positive dam in 2006. We tested the first time the following year, so we did not intentionally allow a non slaughter doe to nurse a positive dam. FooFoo has never raised her doelings. We treated her as a suspect from day one once those tests came back on her dam. An interesting aside. Snow White (DOB 2000), whom most of you have seen, was FooFoo's great-granddam. Snow White tested positive on our first test and all tests we had run on her since then. Her daughter, Milky Way (FooFoo's g-dam; DOB 2002) has tested negative on the three or four tests run on her. Snickers (DOB 2005), Milky Way's daughter (FooFoo's dam) is test positive, since her first test. All these does were dam raised. Though Snow White was bottle raised, but we made sure she had her dam's colostrum. Her dam had five kids in two years and only one was ever capable of nursing her teats. The rest were bottle fed but raised by their dam.
I fully suspect Milky Way will test positive this year. But I will not be shocked if she tests negative. She is 9 years old this year and does not show signs of CAE. Her dam did not either, and neither Snicker's nor FooFoo do either. All are treated as suspect positives (except Snickers who is a known positive and now FooFoo). Their doelings are pulled for Prevention. The same goes for the other dam raised does from that line (and the other lines that had positives in them). 

Beyond that, I had two does that tested negative the first test (probably through Ohio State so I do not know what type of test) and then tested positive the next couple of tests through Biotracking. One was an 8 or 9 year old doe, the other was a 7 year old doe. The second doe's triplet brother and sister still test negative. Well....actually, we lost the sister this Spring. We only have the brother remaining. They were all bottle raised by the breeder, but she didn't know what CAE was when asked later about it.
Whether that was through exposure from a CAE Positive doe who liked to bash her scur off and bleed over the other goats, I do not know. Or whether they picked it up through shared needles before we tested. I would have to go back and track exactly when they arrived and when we tested.
Once I learned about CAE (and before we actually tested the herd), we changed our needle usage.

Having said all that, I will be interested to see how the tests come out this year. All the goats I sell (except for most going to slaughter) have been tested prior to selling. Only one person has ever asked them to be tested, however.

I have a friend who brought in a doeling who was supposedly clean. She ended up being positive. At least one of the doelings raised with that doeling (same bottles, same pen, etc) ended up testing positive. The other does in the herd all tested negative. The third doeling in that pen had a higher titer.
I was shocked.
I cannot say how they were raised though, as I didn't raise them.

I know we have brought in two "raised on CAE Prevention" goats and both ended up testing positive.
It's why if you don't do it yourself, you just cannot be sure.

I do not believe it is that easily transmitted. 

Keep in mind, I have mentioned three goats out of well over 150+ head tested here.


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## JamieH (Nov 29, 2010)

I think that people are careful about showing and things for other diseases, not really CAE.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

JamieH said:


> I think that people are careful about showing and things for other diseases, not really CAE.


Can you elaborate, Jamie? Because I've seen full-blown CL absesses and no one questioned it. You can't "SEE" CAE necessarily, but you can see CL when it is obvious.


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## JamieH (Nov 29, 2010)

I haven't shown since high school, but from what I've noticed on boards, people warn about showing because of CAE on occasion, saying that goats will swollen knees are around and people aren't careful with milk at shows. One list had a person swear up and down her goats were fed positive milk on purpose. I don't think this is the reason that people carry wipes for the judges, or wipe down pens. I think people are worried about CL when they do this. I think this is smart, better safe than sorry. It is so easy to do these things and CL is something none of us want. I'm not sure which other diseases are transmitted by touching or proximity, someone smarter than me will have to chime in =)

I'm not sure what I believe about people feeding CAE milk to competitors goats on purpose. It could happen, but it just seems unlikely. I personally have said that I think CAE does probably shouldn't show because showing is about bettering the breeds and CAE is something that should be gone by now. We all agree that goats with CL have no place at shows. Unfortunately, It is still going to happen until the people in charge do something about it. The squeaky wheel gets the oil. I'm going to make sure I complain if I feel my baby girls are in danger because of "good old boy" goat keepers who think you can't kill a goat if you try and they really don't need special care. I might not end up being popular, but I can deal with that =)


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

Although rare, I think that on some occasions, goats can pick up CAE from sources other than drinking the colostrum of a positive doe as an infant. My friend bought a spotlight sale goat that had tested negative prior to being in the sale. I know the breeders of this doe and they claim they have not had a positive goat for years prior to the goat's birth. I know two people who have bought goats out of this doe's dam and they were negative. The only conclusion I can come to is that either someone sabotaged the doe at the sale or she picked up the virus from a positive goat on my friend's farm. She also had a Saanen doe who was fed the milk of a positive doe at a show and later tested positive. This was not a deliberate sabotage. A child gave the milk to the doe. I've been told CAE can be spread among milking does through milk machines. On the other hand, I had a mixed breed doe who I didn't test until she was 9 years old. Her test came back positive. I believe she was infected as a baby as her dam wasn't tested. She never spread CAE to the other goats in my herd. I hadn't bothered testing her until I whole herd tested because she was a Boer X and her kids were mainly sold for butcher. I did put her down after getting the results, but there were more reasons than the test for doing so. She became infertile and her pasterns were breaking down because she was overweight, and also I culled all the Boers from my herd to focus on dairy goats.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I wipe pens before my goats go in them...I am much more concerned with coming home with mastitis and pnemonia than CL or CAE. My goats are not going to catch CAE at a show...can an adult ruminant catch CAE from drinking positive milk? Can you even get a positive reaction to CAE from milk? It would be VERY diluted if there at all, not like colostrum which is not only concentrated to spread immunity but it is nursed into an open intestine for 12 hours that is made to capture immunity....at no other time in a goats life is their intestine like this but for those 12 hours.

It is very recent that does were tested for spotlight and colorama sales...and why I don't listen to stories that come from other breeders and tell what I know. Nobody really knows another persons herd, no matter how much we think we do know. What I can tell you is that when asking for proof of any of the stories out there, nobody posted their negative to positive tests, their tests of the doe before the purchased buck gave her herd CAE....the negative tests of her does before the dog attack gave her Lamancha's CAE...the negative tests of her goats before she tested positive in another herd or even the positive test. The folks who ran biotracking around in circles because their does were positive after bo-se shots!!! BS! And that doesn't stand for bo-se shots 

Test, don't make excuses for positive goats, borderline sure, retest it can be illness it can be vaccination, but positive is postitive unless it's lab error. 

There are very few ways in which a doe could catch CAE, you could inject blood from a positive doe into a negative doe....a positive doe could fight a negative doe with scurs and getting bloody heads into boths open wounds, they could transfer blood from one to another...a dog could bite one doe and immediatly with a mouth full of blood bite another doe. Maybe other horrific accidents etc...but certainly not casual day to day contact at a farm, not at a show. Vicki


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

I've read that a positive doe could test negative for years and years and then due to stress or such then test positive. I don't understand the scientific part of it, but somehow the stress 'brings out' the disease that was already there but undetected. I could understand how someone would think that they had a negative doe that 'caught' it by 'whatever' means. A move could stress and bring it out, thus buying a goat that tested negative and then at it's new home testing positive and the breeder may think that it was picked up at it's new home. Or showing could stess the animal and the owner think that the goat picked it up at the show.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Necie said:


> I've read that a positive doe could test negative for years and years and then due to stress or such then test positive. I don't understand the scientific part of it, but somehow the stress 'brings out' the disease that was already there but undetected. I could understand how someone would think that they had a negative doe that 'caught' it by 'whatever' means. A move could stress and bring it out, thus buying a goat that tested negative and then at it's new home testing positive and the breeder may think that it was picked up at it's new home. Or showing could stess the animal and the owner think that the goat picked it up at the show.


Aren't you talking about CL here? Isn't that why the tests are unreliable? I thought that's what I read. That with CL, they can test negative, it goes undetected, and then stress or illness could bring it out. Not sure, though.


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## Loden Farms (Dec 21, 2010)

I've heard the same thing that Denise is talking about, and we (me and the person I was talking with) were talking CAE, not CL. And my question is, if this is the case, how do you really ever know if your goat is CAE negative? I'm not saying don't test, or criticizing testing in any way, or anything like that, so don't get me wrong, I'm all about testing. But, that has been a question in the back of my mind every since I heard that.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

In the olden days of AGID testing, and even labs that vets make you use locally (Texas A&M) still uses AGID testing for CAE...you can hear and read lots of stories on the internet from all of us....The Goat Shed (my first forum) the percursor for this forum started on MSN.com in 1995 (Sondra and Bernice both were on it)...the old Lucinet forum also...we all talked about the stress caused by moving a doe...that it could move her from negative to positive, but never back to negative....since Elissa that is moot. It's similar in language to CL testing, with UCDavis CHI testing, I would bet someone with CL could get much more accurate blood tests with it than with testing done before where we only had exude testing that was accurate. Vicki


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## Horsehair Braider (Mar 11, 2011)

So the testing is more accurate now, and the idea that stress would cause a doe to suddenly become positive is from that time before more accurate testing was available? 

Does anyone know of any group studying this disease, or of any scientific papers published on it? I would love to read them. Sometimes I wish I were smarter, if I were a vet instead of a horsehair braider I'd try and get a grant and study this disease.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Jacquee it's part of my shear unadulterated disgust for WSU, hundreds of thousands if not millions of our dairy goat dollars give to them for their "Gold Standard test"...and nothing, nada, zip, in new information coming from them...you get more reliable information from breeders who lived through AGID to Elissa testing. Vicki


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Mar 2, 2009)

I was poking around the internet one night and I came across a very old list with old postings. It was very interesting to read because Vicky was one of the posters and it was back before there was a Bio-Tracking and PAVL was the lab to send to. I can't remember the name of the test but these posts were I think in the year 2000 to 2001 range if I remember the dates right and I am not sure I do,they may have been older. I went looking because our rescue doe had come back positive and I wanted to know everything I could about it because I was worried about her living with my two neg does. She did live with them for nearly a year before we tested everyone. She came back 89, the other two came back 0.

Before reading those old posts (I wish to heck I had saved the link) I had always wondered where some of the thoughts about CAE came from. I even at one time wondered why Vicky was so insistent about CAE prevention.

Then I read the list. I can't imagine what it must have been like at that point trying to get a clean herd. The test it seemed was highly unreliable and would often show positive does as negative until they were stressed because the test wasn't really good enough. This is where I think the "A doe can be positive and never show it on test until stressed by a move" theory came from. It was something that several people posted. There was even discussion about a colostrum test as people worked to find something reliable. From the nature of the posts and people views it seemed like breeders were almost stumbling in the dark trying to deal with a disease they had no reliable way of testing for. The only way to make sure that your goats would be neg was to pull babies and pasteurize milk. 

I left that list with its old posts with a new understanding of CAE and what breeders like Vicky had to go through to get their clean herds. I left with a greater respect for those who did achieve the clean herds and I left with a great deal of gratitude for those breeders. It is because of them, that I can so easily have a clean herd now. I also left with a greater understanding of where a lot of the fear and assumptions about CAE and its ability to lay dormant in the doe or be able to be picked up shows comes from.

I mean think about. If back then you had a doe test neg, then took her to a show where she was stressed and then had her test positive, you would think that she had picked it up there. If someone had a doe that tested negative for three years at their place because the test wasn't good enough and she then tested positive after a move to a new home, you would think that they all have it and just lays dormant. I think it is why a lot of people say that test results don't mean anything. They don't understand the differences between the old test and the new. All they know is that at one time in the past they tested and test was very unreliable and it appeared that they come down with it out of the blue after being negative, or pick it up at shows, etc.


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

Loden Farms said:


> I've heard the same thing that Denise is talking about, and we (me and the person I was talking with) were talking CAE, not CL. And my question is, if this is the case, how do you really ever know if your goat is CAE negative? I'm not saying don't test, or criticizing testing in any way, or anything like that, so don't get me wrong, I'm all about testing. But, that has been a question in the back of my mind every since I heard that.


You raise on prevention. You make sure that colostrum is heat treated properly and milk is pasturized. Only after generations and generations of negative tests and having negative tests on animals that are sold, moved, stressed, etc. would I even consider not raising on prevention.


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## Horsehair Braider (Mar 11, 2011)

Vicki McGaugh Tx Nubians said:


> Jacquee it's part of my shear unadulterated disgust for WSU, hundreds of thousands if not millions of our dairy goat dollars give to them for their "Gold Standard test"...and nothing, nada, zip, in new information coming from them...you get more reliable information from breeders who lived through AGID to Elissa testing. Vicki


I don't know about WSU. Do they receive money for the improvement of dairy herds or something? I'd sure want to know what they had done with the money... sometimes though in science, you have to ask the right questions to get any answers that are worthwhile. If they are not asking the right questions, I would think the money should go elsewhere, somewhere that those hard questions would get asked, and tested.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Wow, Audra, thanks for that bit of history and perspective.

I'd like to play devil's advocate here. So we want to purchase stock and read the website's of breeders and they practice strict CAE prevention. Is it marketing?

Let's assume (and we KNOW there are breeders out there) that a breeder takes the stance that CAE is really no big deal - his/her herd is asymptomatic). Doesn't test, but does raise generation after generation on true CAE prevention methods. What does that say? Is it because of money? Testing is cheap. Is it marketing? Or does he/she know she had it at some point and truly does not want to sell a kid with CAE yet doesn't want to test?

AND, more importantly, for those of you who have been breeding a long time, why was/is it important to you to now have a CAE- herd? Aside from marketing. Because marketing only comes from demand. So why?


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## Horsehair Braider (Mar 11, 2011)

OK Cindy, I'll bite! 

I don't know if you've ever seen does with the big knees from CAE... but it's a sad sight, let me tell you. They break down at a pretty young age... if you might think you'll have a doe 10 years old and still producing, you will not get that from a doe exhibiting CAE symptoms. Next thing you know they can only walk on their knees, and they are only 4 or 5. They are struggling to follow the rest out on pasture but cannot. *Really* sad. 

I am sorry to say that I've seen this, years ago of course, and that can really change your perspective on the disease. I've never seen the kids that have problems, but I have, with my own eyes, seen adult does that had to crawl on their knees. If they had been my goats, they would not have had to suffer that as I'd have put them in the freezer out of pity, but they were not my goats.

Since there is no cure, prevention is the only logical course. I will freely admit, though, that I've bought goats without testing them first. They made me nervous... but I have done it. But back then there was not a good test. Now there is. So I've also changed my ways, because I think a person should always be willing to learn and to admit a mistake. As science advances we should all take advantage... I mean, don't most of us have cell phones now? Why not take advantage of this good test that is now available?


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## JamieH (Nov 29, 2010)

To me, it isn't about marketing. I don't want CAE because it is a disease. It causes all kinds of leg and udder problems that ultimately mean a lesser quality animal. I think it is unethical to breed animals without taking care to improve the breed. Why flood the world with goats that carry a disease even if they don't have symptoms? 

Testing every year is marketing I suppose, but that happens in other livestock too. It is unheard of to buy a horse without a coggins test. Coggins tests are way more expensive too. If the horse people can do we can too.


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## Loden Farms (Dec 21, 2010)

I agree, it's because it's a disease that can be life limiting and debilitating, in a sense deadly to the animal because it does limit their lifetime. Definitely NOT marketing in my eyes, I want to see those neg. CAE results (CL, whatever) and I want to know I'm getting a disease free animal. I can go buy a "goat" to milk from the auction, I want disease free, so I'm buying from someone who tests, I'm not wasting my money on a chance at a auction (the same as I would not buy from a breeder who does not test their animals).

So I'm guessing WSU is not the "gold standard" anymore? That may need to be changed in goatkeeping 101 if so, if I'm not mistaken, I think it's still listed there as being so... I read that when I first came on the forum, and until lately when everyone has been talking about testing through biotracking, did I figure out that "THAT" is the better test. So, to save someone else the same confusion, shouldn't that be changed? I have talked to several breeders who still use WSU as their CAE testing "center" (for lack of a better word, lol), should I be leery of buying from those breeders? <Please remember I'm new and forgive my ignorance... I'm still really trying to learn everything I can...>

Vicki, Thanks, what you said makes sense and does answer my previous question.


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

I *think* Vicki is referring to OUR cost of WSU's CAE test--$16. I agree. Being a university, it seems there would be more 'study' done of the disease with the funds they have collected from US for their tests.

(vs Biotracking's $4 charge, I also think their rate is OUTRAGEOUS!  )


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Mar 2, 2009)

We had the heart break of a symptomatic CAE doe named Lacey. She was a doe that came to us in the spring way underweight,horrible coat,elf boot feet and quite pathetic looking. By fall she was sleek and beautiful and we loved her dearly. We should have tested then but we didn't get around to until January when she was already getting sore. She came back an 89. Two months later at the end of her pregnancy, she could barely get up, her knees were swollen and she was in obvious discomfort. Her beautiful daughter was pulled the minute she cleared the birth canal and Lacey was put down at the vet two days later. Putting her down was so hard because we loved her. Having had first hand experience with a symptomatic doe, I will not have a CAE positive animal again. I don't care if 95% of goats never show symptoms, for the goats that do -and their owners- it is too heartbreaking. Especially when a 4.00 test could have changed everything. It is definitely not about marketing for me. It is a disease and I see no reason to intentionally propagate disease. It is one thing to have positive does that you have tested, know their status and take every precaution to ensure their offspring do not get it. Its another to not care one way or the other.


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

20 some odd years ago, I had a dairy farm, both cows and goats. We had a farm hand who raised gorgeous, expensive Saanens and Nubians from some of the top farms in the US. He paid a lot for these animals as kids.

He skipped out in the middle of the night, leaving his animals behind. I kept them for a while for their milk. Come to find out, they had CAE. Big knees, rock hard udders, slowing wasting away. A couple of the kids developed the "E" part of the disease, it was awful to watch.

The kids were pulled at birth and raised on cows milk. The adults were sold for meat, which was a real shame because of their breeding and the fact they were just nice goats with great personalities. However, I did not want to sell CAE+ goats and have my name all messed up in that.


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## Red Mare (Apr 23, 2011)

While we are talking about this- is CAE at all an STD? 
As in if there was a hypothetical + CAE buck and bred to -CAE does- would it make the does then +?
How about the kids?

Also I just ordered all my biotracking stuff (yay!) 
but I don't see anywhere on there for CL testing. Or Johnnes (sp) 
Where can I send out for proof of neg for those diseases?


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

CAE is not an STD. Years ago, I bought a lovely blonde doe who gave me twins, a buck and a doe. She had a correctly shaped udder, but it was hard, so I tested her and her daughter for CAE and the test came back positive. I have to assume the buck was also positive as the doe raised both kids. What I did to keep the genetics while eliminating CAE was to sell the does and hand breed the buck to a few of my does before sending him to the meat buyer as well. None of the does bred to him ever developed CAE. I also have a CAE+ doe I board in my friend's quarantine pen. In the fall, she's dried up and bred to one of my bucks so my friend can pull any doelings she has off her at birth. There is NO WAY I'd breed her to one of my negative bucks if there were any chance she could pass it to him and thus my other does through breeding. The main reason I don't keep her with my herd is that I allow some of my does to dam raise their kids and I don't want to risk a baby latching onto her teat.
BioTracking doesn't test for CL or Johnnes. I believe WADDL does.
.


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## freedomfrom4 (Nov 4, 2009)

But Cl and Johnnes isn't very accurate, so testing doesn't tell you much.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Agreed Lori, all those negative tests for CL and Johnnes and TB and the like is all marketing. CL and Johnnes is going to have to be a trust issue, not a soul knows if their herd has Johnnes, we all know if we have had a CL abscess.


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## Red Mare (Apr 23, 2011)

So you can spend the money for testing... and it's completely bogus?

That is comforting to say the least. I've never seen an abscess on any of my goats asides the dang needle stick one that I know I caused in one doe. 
Then why does everyone boast on their sites that they test for both CL and Johnnes? And who the heck are we paying all this money to for no reason?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Think about it, CL is a disease in the lympnodes, why would it be a blood test? And Johnnes if it was as simple as a blood test, don't you think the dairy cattle guys would run this test (they don't). And the breeders do run the tests, just know that it doesn't mean a whole lot. TB, unless you live in a state that makes you run it or you have to run it for a dairy situation, no goat is going to be positive for TB that reran it would turn negative...but it's a cattle rule so some have to follow it. But know most alphabet lists of testing ran on websites is marketing.


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## lonestrchic23 (Jan 7, 2011)

I test my girls for CAE through www.biotracking.com. I will retest them again after breeding season when I send blood to biotracking for pregnancy testing...it's only $4.00 so why not? All of my girls tested negative with low titers despite recent CDT vaccinations prior to testing...

I've never had an abcess and I bought from clean, abcess free herds so I'm not worried about CL....there are no goats closer than 5 miles from me, and I don't bring outside, untested stock on to my property....

I don't show, and in my area dairy goats aren't very popular, so I cant get big $$ for my kids, so why on earth should I shell out the $$ for test that really don't do anything to help me, other than a possible marketing aspect?

If a buyer was to insist on a CL test, I would do it, but at their expense......otherwise I'd rather put the goat in the freezer....especially for the prices I would sell kids for. We like goat, and I'm a Raw feeder, so nothing would be wasted and my heart wouldn't be broke over a missed sale.


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## Bella Star (Oct 27, 2007)

I am a xnurse and I still believe in blood test . CAE is passed from a CAE+ does milk to kids that suck or drink a CAE+ does milk ................CAE+ doe passes CAE to kid thru milk .

I have never had a goat turn positive to CAE when they are a adult , never in 11 years that I have been into goats and I have never even heard of a CAE- turning into a CAE+ from any goat owner,never !


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## Red Mare (Apr 23, 2011)

Eventual RN here- but we can test for most of the Lymph diseases in people- 
I am guessing that the funding just isn't there for the goats?

I can see that it would be an issue of perhaps needing to learn how to aspirate the lymph node if needed. 
However, a vet could easily do that for someone.


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