# Horse mineral?



## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Would this mineral be suitable for goats? It has iron in the ingredients but not analysis, but the mineral itself is a yellowish color, so it must not have near as much as the goat mineral, which is red. It has high copper and I'm wondering if it's too much, though I wouldn't think it would be, it gives a warning about it. I've been mixing it like 1/3 with the goat mineral until I could ask about it. 


ADM Alliance Nutrition, Inc.

A Vitamin-Mineral Supplement for All Classes of Horses
16% Calcium: 8% Phosphorus
27 Vitamins, Minerals, and Electrolytes
Natural Source Vitamin E


Guaranteed Analysis
Calcium (Ca), not less than 15.2%
Calcium (Ca), not more than 18.2%
Phosphorous (P), not less than 8.0%
Salt (NaCl), not less than 26.0%
Salt (NaCl), not more than 31.0%
Copper (Cu), not less than 3600 ppm
Selenium (Se), not less than 36 ppm
Zinc (Zn), not less than 11,500 ppm
Vitamin A, not less than 300,000 International Units per pound.
Vitamin D3, not less than 30,000 International Units per pound.
Vitamin E, not less than 850 International Units per pound.

Ingredients
Salt, Defluorinated Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Monocalcium Phosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Soybean Meal, Petrolatum, Cane Molasses, Zinc Oxide, Magnesium Oxide, Manganous Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Iron Oxide, d-alpha Tocopherol Acetate (Source of Vitamin E), Ferrous Sulfate, Vitamin A Acetate, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Corn Distillers Dried Grains with Solubles, Cobalt Carbonate, Sodium Selenite, D-Activated Animal Sterol (Source of Vitamin D3), Potassium Iodide, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Menadione Dimethylpyrimidinol Bisulfite (Source of Vitamin K Activity).

Instructions for Feeding
MoorMan's GroStrong Minerals for Horses, a cornerstone of Forage First® feeding programs, provide 27 vitamins, minerals and electrolytes in a proprietary formula balanced for horses.

Feed GroStrong Minerals for Horses by the following methods:

Free Choice: When starting to feed, remove salt and other mineral products and feed GroStrong Minerals free-choice near the water source and, preferably, protected from rain. Monitor intake to determine that the recommended amounts of Minerals are consumed.

Mixed with Feed: For horses expected to consume 5 lb of concentrate mix per horse daily, add 50 lb of granular GroStrong Minerals for Horses per ton of mix. For horses expected to consume 10 lb of concentrate mix per horse daily, add 25 lb of granular GroStrong Minerals for Horses per ton of mix, etc. Do not use GroStrong Minerals with mixes that contain MoorMan's GroStrong Mintrate® for Horses.

Top Dressed Over Feed: For concentrate mixes not containing GroStrong Minitrate, feed GroStrong Minerals as follows: (1 oz is 2 level tablespoons):
Age and work
load of horse Daily amount of
GroStrong Minerals
Foal 1 oz
Yearling or 2-year old 2 oz
Pony 1 oz
Bred mare or stallion 3 oz
Lactating mare 3 oz
Pleasure or show horse 2 oz
Moderate to hard-working horse 3 oz*
Race or performance horse 3 oz*

*Additional salt should be offered to hard-working horses to offset losses through perspiration.

Consumption of GroStrong Minerals for horses will vary according to; individual mineral appetites; total dry matter consumption; kind, quality and amount of hay or pasture available; amount of GroStrong Mintrate fed; kind, quality and amount of concentrate fed; mineral content of drinking water; and condition, size and age of horse.

Caution: Consumption of this product by sheep and goats may result in copper toxicity.


----------



## mill-valley (Feb 22, 2008)

From what I can remember, copper at 3600 ppm is not too high for goats.


----------



## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

looks ok to me but maybe someone else will see something I don't. Compare it with the Tech master


----------



## susie (Oct 28, 2007)

off the top of my head it looks alittle low in selenium. i live ina selenium deficient area, maybe you don't.

Susie


----------



## Guest (Apr 2, 2008)

I didn't see anything that caught my eye that would harm your goats per say..........but that is a lot of salt.....almost 1/3 the bag.......But ADM goat mins are high salt too.....so maybe thats OK. The mins. that I use is about 12% salt.......and I almost wonder if that much added salt is kinda like a filler to help fill the bag.
Just remember that salt is dirt cheap.

Whim


----------



## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Your right Whim Tech-Master Complete is min 10 max 12 %

http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,80.msg171.html#msg171


----------



## Dusty (Mar 18, 2008)

Is purina goat mineral any good? The local feed store doesn't carry any goat specific mineral, but I found a store in the next town that carried purina. How long does a 25# bag last when left free choice for 4 goats?


----------



## Rose (Oct 26, 2007)

My goats won't eat Purina unless I mix it with peanut butter and serve it on crackers. Seriously. :help


----------



## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Yea, I noticed that about the salt, definately more than I prefer. 

I don't think I've heard much good about purina's goat mineral. I do know it has a lot of salt, like 40-45%


----------



## MayLOC (Oct 26, 2007)

you might be better off just getting the ADM cattle mineral. pretty much same ing. list, but much lower salt, as cattle folks buy salt seperately and mix in.


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

If you have a Tractor Supply Store nearby you can get Tech Master there-it is part of thier normal inventory as they are Bluebonnet distributors.
I used ADM dairy goat power mins for years - are you trying to get away from the iron?
We should all write to the ADM small ruminant nutritionist and tell him about the iron conflict. 

His name is Jim Warren and he has been helpful to me before. They produce a version of the protien block without iron called a blonde block so perhaps they could formulate a low iron mineral if they knew there was a demand. You can reach him at [email protected],com

Lee


----------



## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

I contacted our TSC but they didn't have it (I may as well asked for a purple zebra or something). I told them they are listed as a supplier, and he acted like that wasn't set in stone :?? I asked if they would order it and he said he would have to call me back. Well he called back while I was outside and didn't leave a message and didn't call again. I think Laura said they wanted her to buy a whole pallet, or it was really expensive? I can't quite remember, but she had problems too. She's planning to pick some of the techmaster up when she goes to Texas, and can pick me some up. Would like to find something for the long run, this mineral is at my normal feed store. 

I don't remember seeing an ADM cattle mineral, I will have to look again next time.


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Get a contact number for someone in charge at Tractor Supply.
Email the headquarters - they are trying to compete - they don't want bad word of mouth.
They jerked us around at first too (the underlings) but if you keep on it they will get you some. THEY have to buy a pallet not you! So once they do you can rest assured they will have it for you for awhile!
Lee


----------



## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Ok, I looked back and what Laura had told me. She said they would order it but wanted over $50 a bag.


----------



## LMonty (Oct 25, 2007)

Ive checked with all the local feedstores around, and they cant get it. Yep and I checked back a couple of weeks ago at the Harrison TSC just to see if I had any better luck with another employee. No joy, they still gave me the same song and dance. Someone else said it was available somewhere up by Springfield, so I may check that out for future purchases, and us North Ark girls can get it there. We usually do a run up that way every coupleof months for soemhing DDH needs at Harbor Supply anyway, so its not like the gas costs extra. 

But if the Springfield TSC is also charging 20 bucks more than they are in TX- it still seems like a crummy way for TSC to do business to me! Its not just the extra money-I dont like doing business with a company that I feel is taking advantage of me, and I rarely ever go in the Harrison store here because of it. They tend to be higher on most stuff anyway, feed prices are definitely better at my local feed store. So I'm not a TSC fan at this point.


----------



## MayLOC (Oct 26, 2007)

ADM
HI PLAINS 12/9
51054AAA
SUPPLEMENT FOR CATTLE ON PASTURE

salt min. 15% max. 18%-- plenty of salt, but much lower than the horse version you posted.

no selenium --we like as we are in a very toxic area here.

no iron--high iron water around the ranch.


----------



## LMonty (Oct 25, 2007)

I made a few phone calls...

TSC customer service from their website- basically gave me a song and a dance, and how if htey dont carry it in the sotre, thats the way it is, their stuff is regional,a nd of course its going to cost more. 

Went back to the BlueBonnett website. Theres a place in Springfield MO 
So Mo Agri Supply, Inc.
2850 W. Kearney
Springfield, MO 65803
800-725-1880

I called and talked to them, they dont have it, but do carry some BB feeds and will be glad to order it in for us, by phone call, per the second guy I spoke with there named Gary. They go down to BB to do a pick up about once a month, next trip the third week in April. 
He quoted me 39.95 on the Complete, and 49.80 on the salt free Concentrate. I told him there were other folks in the area interested and I'd be posting it on here for them to see, said he was greatful for that, and said he'd be glad to help if he can! THAT is the kind of customer service I like!


----------



## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

We all use the complete down here. 
Buck run you are not in a high selenium area sorry to disagree with you but there is only one spot in all US that has high selenium.


----------



## mill-valley (Feb 22, 2008)

I have been using the Purina, my goats do eat it but not very well. I go through a 25# bag in about 2 months for 12 adult does. I will be switching to Right Now Onyx cattle mineral which I heard was good. Can't get Bluebonnet feeds this far north as far as I could find. Closest place was Tennessee I think? So no go there.


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Buck run you are not in a high selenium area sorry to disagree with you but there is only one spot in all US that has high selenium. 

Hi Sondra- I don't recall ever saying that we were in a high selenium area????
OH i see- Kassi said that...

My understanding is that some modern goats have trouble assimilating selenium and hence the injections everyone is so fond of. 

Glad you found someone who will work with you Laura- 
Surely 20 dollars is a bit high just for transportation. 
Good that you kept checking!
Lee


----------



## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

OH Lee am so sorry yep it was Kassi that said that and Co isn't the state that is high in selenium


----------



## Guest (Apr 3, 2008)

:rofl You'll have to do like I do, and forgive Sondra sometimes. I think she gets in that beermilk stuff a little too hard some days. Kombucha crazy :crazy

Whim


----------



## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

:crazy


----------



## MayLOC (Oct 26, 2007)

Sondra said:


> OH Lee am so sorry yep it was Kassi that said that and Co isn't the state that is high in selenium


Well I haven't comparison checked to see if we are the "highest", but I do know that we are high enough to be toxic to stock.

http://tin.er.usgs.gov/geochem/doc/averages/se/usa.html

It is not just a ranch problem, it is a regional problem, though of course some ranches and some pastures within those ranches have it much worse than others.

I cannot begin to tell you how many (on our ranch and others around) cattle and horses have alkali'd around here. Which is the chronic form of selenium toxicity. Soil and blood tests have confirmed this for countless years in this area.

http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/plants/toxicagents/selenium/selenium.html

So yes, we seek out feeds and mineral that are free of selenium.

thanks,kassi.


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

That's ok Sondra- you read lotsa stuff every day-it's a wonder you are not re-reading it in your sleep! No need to say sorry bout that. My daughter is kombucha crazy sometimes too so I know the problem espiecally if she chugs it right after her Bikram Yoga class!

Me....I am storm nuts...so many squall lines over and over and we are so wet my girls won't go out to graze and yet are on strike from the hay- stand there staring at the grass but won't go out to get their little tippytoes wet! grrrrrrrr.
Anyone figured out a nutritional supplement for intelligence yet?

Whim- i heerd yall is reel smart in Alabummer maybe you know somethin bout that. 

Gosh Kassi that is a hard thing to deal with but yet Colorado grows some of the most wonderful alfalfa hay anywhere....wonder if it picks up extra selenium?? Are there people in Colorado formulating feeds to combat the imbalance?

Lee


----------



## Guest (Apr 4, 2008)

"""""Whim- i heerd yall is reel smart in Alabummer maybe you know somethin bout that."""""

Nope....no hits on that thread, and really didn't think there would be either.........just not that kinda hard research being done on goats I don't guess, or either that kinda info is hardly ever made public enough for us common folk to see it.
I'm just gonna have to go off our feed tags, and recommended feeding rates, and assume that they are close to "full" nutrition per day/feeding.
The problem with all these durn tags, is that they read.......feed so much of this if the goats have limited browse......feed so much if they have ample browse.....if you have bla bla bla, feed this amount. Then of course you get their add about buying/adding their mineral supplement to your feeding program on top of that.
......so then, the total numbers of something like vitamin B/copper/selenium consumed a day, starts getting to be a wild guess.

I guess what we do is just try something, and if it works well for us, and the evidence is there by having healthy animals across the yard most of the time......then stick with it. That's one reason that you will seldom see me criticize somebody on here because they are feeding this or that, or are dumping this and that into their goats on a regular basis.......or even go as far as calling somebody "irresponsible" if they don't practice this or that at their place. Bottom line with me is ,if it's working for you, then stick with it.......that's the main reason that I'm a little upset about making any kind of feed changes at my place right now. I've had no bloat, no ketosis, no hypocalcemia, no floppy kids born, no nothing of this kind.........my biggest problem has been trying to dig a 5 and 6 lb baby out of a little bitty ND doe, and for the most part, I've been successful at that too. 
My goal is not perfection, but just doing the very best that I can do, with what I have to work with at this present time and place.

May we all reach our goals, Whim


----------



## MayLOC (Oct 26, 2007)

good post whim. how true that is.

as is stated on this forum often, everybody is located in a different part of the country and subject to unique problems and concerns for their particular area. often times you find out your 'big' concerns the hard way, with sickness, trial and error (unfortunately sometimes death) and testing. but however and whenever you get your own program figured out to work the best for your unique situation, the better off you and your future livestock will be.

It is really amazing to me how much one area can vary from another, even within the same county, and as we have found in many ways, even within the same ranch.


----------



## Pairaka (Jan 12, 2008)

mill-valley said:


> I have been using the Purina, my goats do eat it but not very well. I go through a 25# bag in about 2 months for 12 adult does. I will be switching to Right Now Onyx cattle mineral which I heard was good. Can't get Bluebonnet feeds this far north as far as I could find. Closest place was Tennessee I think? So no go there.


I wish. I checked the BB website and TN isn't on their list.

Our co-op has some good goat minerals (wish that could help everyone) and they've recently reformulated it so that it DOESN'T include the high salt content.


----------



## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Sondra- I am sorry to say I lost track of that link to info on too much iodine you posted. Can you direct me again? So could free feeding kelp become a problem?
Lee


----------

