# Gangrene Mastitis? Latest pictures..



## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

My regular vet just called and said that the lump I'm feeling, along with the quarter-sized area with blistering on my doe with mastitis DOES have gangrene mastitis. She told me to scrub it really good and keep her milked out, and that the area would rupture and necrotic tissue would come out and I should keep flushing with betadine or something similar...right now I'm using the hebi-cleans I got from walmart. This doe was also on excennel, which proved to NOT be the correct antibiotic as per the sensitivity test, but the doe is better anyway. I did do the pirsue, which the bacteria turned out to be sensitive too.

The spot on the doe is at the junction between the teat and udder, not really on the teat, but more on the udder. The vet suggested to give her a shot of LA 200. Isn't there something comparable that won't sting and how many days and what dosage? The bacteria were suseptable to erythromycin, novabiocin and tetracycline. She couldn't give me brands except for the LA200 without consulting her book which wasn't at hand.

She said this doe will always have a bad side to the udder...I can deal with that, but I want to know if she'll continue shedding bacteria. Vet says she's not contagious and wants me to scrub and open the area. Believe me I'm totally confused right now.

The pictures below were taken this morning. The first one is a picture of the black spot on the udder, prior to milking. The whole area around the spot, inside the udder is hard and sore and red on the outside...don't know that you can see the red, but it is irritated.

The second one is her udder before milking. From behind, the bad side is on the left.

The third is a picture of the bad side after milking. (In this picture the bad side is on the right) You can really see and feel the mass after the udder is emptied. This doe gives the normal amount of milk from both udders and it's not stringy, smelly, bloody etc. 

[attachment deleted by admin]


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## IXEL (May 17, 2010)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis*

I have never herd of such a thing, this is really interesting, I would really like to learn more about it. Can you post any pics?


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis*

I'm googling right now and this came up...

http://www.saanendoah.com/gmastitis.html


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis*

Anita you can use Duramycin or any other tetracycline antibiotic. Thats what LA200 is. Tam


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis*

Wow Anita I can't believe your vet is being so casual about this.
If it ruptures you need more than betadine- you need to flush it with one of the anti's it tested sensitive to.
If it does not rupture it is moving into the rest of the half.


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## nightskyfarm (Sep 7, 2009)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis*

I emailed you.


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## Candy (Jun 4, 2009)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis*

We had a case of gangrene mastitis last year. The teat on this doe got hard and was dripping fluids very slowly. I finally cut the teat off with tin snips and then let the process continue on it's own. She didn't feel a thing when I cut. The teat was dead. It took quite a while for that side of the udder to come completely off. I wish I had taken pictures. Her udder didn't actually rupture, it just died and fell off.

I am sorry what you are going thru since I know how it is. When I first read your ordeal, it took me back to mine. Not pleasant but such a learning experience.


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## Tallabred (Jun 12, 2008)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis*

My doe went septic and died within 4 days of the first sign of a problem. It was VERY scary - and sad.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis*

Yes that was exactly our experience too Cathy. Devastating -healthy one day - about to die the next.
The fastest moving loss ever. Thank goodness only once in 30 years. Wishing you a different outcome Anita.


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis*

We had a patient in the hospital with gas gangrene. She died in a matter of days too.


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## Ozark Lady (Mar 21, 2010)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis*

I have seen that at a goat dairy, that I used to go visit.

It is terrible, and they were casual about it too. They would just take the doe out of the milking line, put her with the bucks and wait for the udder to fall off. They did medicate them, but, they didn't clean and keep working on the udders, as far as I saw. They simply color coded the does, and didn't milk them with the equipment. I wasn't there 24/7 so I don't know what all they did as far as care at later dates. But, I sometimes helped with the milking. It was kind of fun to hook up all the machines.

Amazingly, some does, that were good bloodlines, they would breed, even though the does had no udder at all, and raise the kids on the other does milk. Apparently it isn't genetic either, because they weren't concerned about keeping does out of the dams.


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis*

Well, of course it's not genetic...it's an infection.


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis*

I worked at a dairy in the past too and there was a doe there with gangrene mastitis. They milked her last. It was nasty nasty nasty. I don't know why she was not just shot. Ridiculous.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis*

Does can slough a half of an udder without any antibiotic therapy and be perfectly happy and normal the whole time, while others even with vet IV antibiotics will be on deaths door. I just don't want the bacteria on my place, it would have to be some special doe, and then I would have her udder amputated. Sorry but few things gross me out more than milking a one teated goat.

Joyce successfully treated the doe in the photos on her site, once again when someone has a good outcome you go to them for the info  Well if just simple survival is a good outcome  Vicki


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis*

Thank you everyone. For the sake of learning, I will post pictures later. Luckily, my doe does udder does not look anything like the poor doe in the link picture.

I milked this doe out one night and she was fine, no hardness, no lump, ate well, etc. Next morning I found her hunched up and looking terrible, with hardly any milk...and a fever of 104.6. This was almost exactly a 12 hour interval. I did not notice an injury, although she might have gotten a scratch or puncture that was not noticed...there are no lights in the milking shed.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis*

It is possible Stacey that the ability to resist the bacteria or tendency to succumb to it IS a genetic feature.
Not the infection but the weakness that lets it take hold. Why would one in a whole string succumb?
IMO -"Good bloodlines" does not include a doe that sloughs off her udder! Yup- putting them down seems in order there. 
Sorry you have to deal with this Anita.


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis*

Agreed, Lee. Should have been more thorough in my response.


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis...uppdated with pictures*

I updated the post with pictures.


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis...uppdated with pictures*

I saw a case of this when my friend had her commercial dairy. The doe was quarantined and treated with antibiotics. My friend wasn't taking any chances of it spreading to the other does. She wan't put in with drys or bucks either. She eventually healed, but was later sold for meat as the dairy needed fully productive animals. Had she been a top quality show animal, she would have been kept as a brood doe, but she was just commercial quality.


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis...uppdated with pictures*

Kathie, did the doe lose a whole side of her udder? My vet seems to think this tissue will slough off and fill in...I'm presuming she meant with scar tissue.


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## nightskyfarm (Sep 7, 2009)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis...uppdated with pictures*

Anita, Check out the sannendoah link Diane posted at the beginning of your thread and you will see pictures of an udder sloughing off. This way you can have an idea of what to possibly expect.


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## Ozark Lady (Mar 21, 2010)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis...uppdated with pictures*

The link and the copper deficiency information is interesting.
My genetic comment was: Even in a "herd" of humans, some families have a tendency to succumb to certain infections.

For instance, I know families that get the flu alot and our family has never had anyone get the flu. I know, you catch the flu, but there has to be a reason that some families get it alot, and some never do. Resistance? Maybe some are resistant?

Notice in the copper link, certain breeds tended towards copper deficiency.
Staph is a fairly common bacteria, my chiropractor was just discussing how so many humans would test positive for a staph infection at any given moment. But, something triggers it to become an issue. In the case of goats, one cause is the copper deficiency, but I think there could be others. And I really would watch any near relatives of a goat that got gangrene mastitis, just to see if there appeared to be something, genetic that was missed.


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis...uppdated with pictures*

I did check out all the links and saw the sloughing udder etc. This is a copper bolused herd. We started bolusing over a year ago. With the link pictures, it just shows the udder at it's worst. I am wondering if it started out like my doe...small, and then spread?

I got another antibiotic for her. She's not running a fever, continues to milk well out of both sides, and jumps and runs and acts goofy like always. So far there is still feeling in her teat. Last night I decided to pick at the black spot like the vet wanted me too..now, this vet has not seen this goat, but is our herd vet and gave me the original antibiotics etc. I was all set to bring her in, but she seemed to know already what it was and what the outcome would be and how to treat so she gave me the information over the phone.

When I picked at the corner of the scab, it bled, so I stopped. I felt odd about opening that large of an area up to possibly more bacteria. So I cleaned it very well again and it stopped bleeding and I left it alone.

As time goes on I'll post more pictures...


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis...uppdated with pictures*

I don't recall the whole half of her udder sloughing off, but it shriveled up. She was not giving regular milk out of that side. It was bloody mastitis milk. Gross. This is why she was not allowed around other goats. This was a long time ago, and I don't recall all the details except that we didn't lose the doe and she was culled.


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis...uppdated with pictures*

Anita, you sure have you hands full on this one. I would be hesitant to pick at the wound too but I do not know on this one. I am remembering what we did to the human with gas gangrene in the hospital. Her gangrene started as a boil on the back of her thigh. The whole area was opened up and debrided. It left an area the size of a wash tub. The patient was over 500 lbs. The wound was sprayed with bleach water routinely. Antibiotics of course were given. The gangrene was never under control and days later the lady died.


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## Qvrfullmidwife (Oct 25, 2007)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis...uppdated with pictures*

"I know, you catch the flu, but there has to be a reason that some families get it alot, and some never do. Resistance? Maybe some are resistant?"

hygeine habits (coughing, hand washing), where you go, church, stores, day cares, schools...


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## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis...uppdated with pictures*

Personal labels: My sister "believes" her family has allergies, so she and her 2 sons do have severe allergies. I don't because I refuse to have them, whether or not I do.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis...uppdated with pictures*

Immunity and vaccination is not about never being ill, but a herd that is not mineral or vitamin defficient and who has strong immunity will sail through illness sometimes without antibiotics where others succomb quickly. The same can be said of our families, vaccination is a bonus, immunity given via colostrum to our kids to use until they can be vaccinated. Those who live in the country and are not polluted by chemicals like near the city, those whose parents don't smoke, kids who don't have to be day cared and don't go to school until their immunity is sealed, just like the goatlings. Those who eat healtheir more natural diets, have less illness and their longevity goes up, just like in our goats. Vicki


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis...uppdated with pictures*

I have been wondering about your doe Anita.
Can you update on her condition?
Lee


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis...uppdated with pictures*

Yes, Lee, was just thinking about that this morning. This doe is doing well. I haven't gotten another picture, but will. The small black area is still black of course and is now white around the edges. The edges are loosening, and the white is the healing. No discharge, foul odor, gross milk, etc. She still has the mass but I noticed last night that it is smaller. Checked again this morning and it truly is smaller. She is comfortable. The teat itself no longer contains hard stuff, but feels normal. Maybe a bit of roughness from all the extra washing.

What I've done is gave her some shots of duramiacin, which left big lumps...guess thats normal? I've been cleaning the entire area at milking time with hibiclens wash and baby wipes/udder wash spray, and scrubbing the area well without dislocating the scab. There are no flies present.

She's not had a fever or acted off since the initial attack of mastitis. She's kept her appetite up, etc.

I'll get new pictures in a couple of days, right now it still looks basically the same.

Thanks for all the helpful hints everyone gave me.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis...uppdated with pictures*

So what causes this? Just a specific kind of bacteria?


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis...uppdated with pictures*

sounds to me like this doe might have a very robust immune system and with the good care she might be winning


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis...uppdated with pictures*

Thanks for the update. I was wondering about her also.


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis...uppdated with pictures*

The particular bacteria responsible for this case was bacillus cereus. From what I've read it is a somewhat unusual bacteria to cause mastitis. I read about the bacteria on big cow dairies causing problems and in at least one instance they located the source of the bacteria to their bedding. I don't know if this is a bacteria normally present in the environment or if it springs up at oportune times...It seems like there is way more that I don't know than what I do know. I'll post pictures in a couple of days.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis...uppdated with pictures*

Anita, did this culture back as this, or is it a guess, it was one of the reasons I had asked on another thread about the "only bacillus" diagnosis on Lacia's thread. Most gangrenous mastitis diagnosis comes with a staph aureous percusor or one of the clostridiums found in covexin 8....so there are multiple ways to get this, usually resulting in the loss of a half....if the does body walls it off well, it doesn't go systemic and kills the patient like gangreen does in humans once it hits the blood stream. Shows us also how walled off an udder can be from the bloodstream, that a virulant bacteria like these can be walled off from the body by the udder so it doesn't go systemic, or even effect the other half of the udder. But this goes both ways in an udder that is walled off from antibiotics working also. Vicki


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis...uppdated with pictures*

Vicki, the lab called me with with the results of the mastitis test and sent me the paperwork in the mail. The only bacteria they identify was the cereus. I'm assuming it wasn't a guess. I want to reculture soon and am wondering if I need to do another mastitis test, a somatic cell, or both?

Yes, I am amazed that this did not go into the other side, and that the other side cultured negative...yep I ran two tests.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis...uppdated with pictures*

Anita- it rarely affects both sides. The udder is an amazing place!
So glad she has not gone septic. She may recover with only scar tissue.
The best possible outcome.


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## nightskyfarm (Sep 7, 2009)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis...uppdated with pictures*

Did they give you any indication on what to treat her with if anything? I would still try the Nuflor for 3 dosings and do another culture afterwards to see if it has changed. Lee is right, you may be lucky and she only has scar tissue, but it will permanently affect her production on that side. She may have to live with that bacteria and with the possibility that it will re-emerge sometime, like staph when her immune system becomes compromised by illness or stress.


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis...uppdated with pictures*

I treated her with excennel initially, which, according to the sensitivity test, the bacteria was unresponsive to that, but she got better anyway. I treated her again with duramyacin, as per my vet's advice. So far she continues to milk well out of that side. When I was milking into two seperate containers, they both had about the same amount. Her production dropped dramatically when she came down with the mastitis initially, like to just a couple of cups per milking...but I was milking three to four times a day. Now it's back up to about normal for her, which is 10-12 pounds. The mass is much smaller, almost half the initial size, and no longer sore. Keeping my fingers crossed!


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

*Re: Gangrene Mastitis...uppdated with pictures*

That's just amazing news, Anita!


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

It's been 30 days now, and none of the things that the vet said would happen have happened. The vet did not see the goat, she diagnosed over the phone based on my description of what was going on, lab tests, etc. Now I'm wondering if gangrene was the proper diagnosis? To me it seems more like a severe abscess inside the udder. Maybe there is no difference, I don't know. The black spot/scab is about to come off, I can see scarring under it. This is the only part on the udder that turned black. Course, I don't know what it looks like inside the udder. The doe continues to be pain free and is milking 12-14 pounds per day, with both sides milking almost equal. Here are the latest pictures.

The first picture was taken on the 17th of June, the second one was taken this morning. You can see that the black part is just a scab, not necessarily a part of what is going on inside the udder, and is barely holding on. I'm leaving it as long as possibly due to all the flies we have here.

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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Excellent Anita- I doubt you have any interior problems or she would have had fever and tenderness and drop in production. Sounds like she is none the worse for it at all. Happy to hear it.


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

Wow, good save!


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## IXEL (May 17, 2010)

Weird!


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Just for my own knowledge, what IS that second picture? Looks like you're holding teeth. Glad things seem to be better. 

Honestly, how do you get 12 - 14 lbs per DAY???????????? I WISH I could get that. Awesome.


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

MF-Alpines said:


> Just for my own knowledge, what IS that second picture? Looks like you're holding teeth. Glad things seem to be better.
> 
> LOL the second picture is me holding the scab that is barely holding on! I'm sorry about the quality of the photo. Last night when I went out to milk the scab had fallen off on it's own, with no oozing or anything, just a little small scabbed over area and smooth white skin underneath. I was fully prepared for this doe to loose one whole side of her udder or at least a huge chunk of it. I thought the big gangrenous tissue inside would just fall out. I had stuff on hand to flush but never needed to beyond using the spray/soap that I used at every milking.
> 
> ...


I seem to get good production out of all my does. This doe had QUADS this year. I think that helped. She's not a big doe either. She would be more consistent in the pounds she milks per day if it were not for me running out of alfalfa pellets and milking at odd times...sometimes at 5am, sometimes at 10am...they thrive despite me, and I feel blessed that they do as well as they do.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Like I said, good for you. Really. I'm so glad things are better with this doe. Thanks for the explanation(s).


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Anita- How is this doe doing? Hopefully back to normal.
Thanks for an update.
Lee


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