# Abigail HAS MASTITIS.



## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

She just kidded early this morning, probably around 5 and a half hours ago. She rejected her kids and now I'm thinking it may be because she isn't feeling well. I took her temp and it's 104.1, her sister's is 101.6 . Her eyelids are blood red, not healthy pink, but inflamed red. Her eyes are a little weepy and I can tell her nose drained a little as there are dried trails. She ate some of her grain this morning but not all of it. She didn't fight for the alfalfa pellets either. I've given her the herbal antibiotics I use and herbal anti inflammatory- which I will be continueing to do throughout the day.. I'm wondering what could be causing the fever? I thought maybe uterine infection, however, the discharge does not stink, the placenta looks normal (far as I can tell, purplish reddish membrane stuff like always) etc. She is standing out in the sun right now. Kinda hunched up like she doesn't feel too good. She's been calling her babies, but when I show them to her, she doesn't act like she recognizes them. 

She was copper bolused yesterday after I was surprised to find I had let her lapse. Her last one before that was like June I believe (info's down in the barn).


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## MayLOC (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Abigail not feeling well*

Were you at the birth? Was it rough? did you check her after kidding for other kids not expelled? 
Do you have traditional meds on hand? biomycin for a flush and an antibiotic like naxcel/excenel? 
I know again and again Vicki says this : Usually after kidding when you have no appetite and no milk it is uterine infection with an elevated temp, low temp and it's milk fever.
Surely she doesn't have an acute case of mastitis does she? Either way she would need a traditional antibiotic.
Did you give her any banamine to help her feel better right now? 1cc/100lb.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

*Re: Abigail not feeling well*

I guess I didn't post my reply I typed up.

Kidding appears to have been easy. I did miss it. There was a mostly dry baby, a mostly wet baby and a placenta already completely expelled when I came along. No appearance of a difficult kidding. Didn't feel babies though, I didn't go in. She looked like she would have twins and did. I bumped her belly but didn't check the canal.

How can she have a uterine infection that fast? This is her first kidding, so no previous kiddings. Kids are fine, placenta is fine etc. No smells.

I've never done a uterine flush, how is it done? I know I've read about them but didn't absorb it. She ate some alfalfa pellets. Seems to feel a little bit better.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Abigail not feeling well*

It's only been 5 hours, give her time to rest...of course she didn't eat all her food  I have never taken a temp this quickly after birth to know if it is normal or not for a doe to take awhile to regulate her temp after working at kidding. Vicki


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## MayLOC (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Abigail not feeling well*

Sorry, I shouldn't have posted in such a hurry I guess. 
honestly I haven't taken a temp at that time either. 
I do often give out banamine to just kidded does that are acting as you have described yours has. It just makes them feel better. I love banamine. 
I would imagine every mom's eyes may be a bit bloodshot from the force of pushing following a birth. 
Just keeping food in front of her the first day or so and not expecting much is what we do.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

*Re: Abigail not feeling well*

Well that makes me feel better. Maybe she's just more shocked about kidding than typical. My fat girls usually go right to eating pretty quickly. But she does just seem dazed. She was kinda shivering when I brought her into the barn.


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## MayLOC (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Abigail not feeling well*

hey ashley. i think sometimes they get like that from blood loss. no matter what sort of animal. 
i just dealt with one a bit shaky for a couple of days and I just half milked her for a few days until she recovered.
how is she milking? of course watch for ca trouble with that also.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

*Re: Abigail not feeling well*

And please don't give banamine until they pass their placenta.
Tam


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

*Re: Abigail not feeling well*

She is just not right. She won't eat much and she is laying down on the time. I checked her gums (since her eyelids are inflamed) and they seem the same pink as the other goat's. I brought her some alfalfa pellets, she ate a few bites. I brought her some of their alfalfa/orchard hay, she nibbled at it. I brought her some pine needles, she got real excited, grabbed a big old bite and ate it, then suddenly didn't want any more. I brought her grain and she ate maybe half a handful. Brought her water and she drank some, but not enough to see the level in the bucket really drop. She's got that fluffed up, "I don't feel good" look. I haven't checked her temp again yet. She also walks slow and gingerly.

She is really overweight- fat enough her fat sticks out a bit more than her elbows just standing there. Big old handful of fat behind the elbows. (2 yr old FF, not good I know but I didn't fatten her on grain, she just got fat anyway), could it be ketosis? I kept her off grain until the last couple of weeks because I didn't want the babies to be too big. And I hadn't had her worked up to all that much yet, just 1/4 lb twice a day, which I figured would be enough for a couple babies but what if she worked real hard kidding and it got her in a bad state? I read they tend to walk stiff legged and slow, and that is what she's doing. She just wants to lay down.

She's not really making much milk.

Should I give her CMPK just in case? Even though her temp wasn't low?


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## Lynn_Theesfeld (Feb 21, 2010)

*Re: Abigail not feeling well-- still not well*

Ashley,
Belle was a FF this year and acted much the same as your does seems to be. It took her a couple days to be 100% percent again, but i didn't take her temp or check her lids... She had to really work on getting that first buckling out and I contributed her laying around and being a little slow on feed to that. I do know by the next morning she was ready for her gain! Though she still didn't over indulge on her alfalfa pellets like normal. She did by the third day. I would IMO just give her a little time. Keep an eye on that temp tomorrow, she should be getting back to normal by then.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

*Re: Abigail not feeling well-- still not well*

You know me....cmpk and mom for anyone who misses a meal.
Is her temp still above normal?
Lee


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

*Re: Abigail not feeling well-- still not well*

Her temp is 103.4 . I don't guess the CMPK (I have nor calci phos- does that have the mag? I will have to look) would hurt.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

*Re: Abigail not feeling well-- still not well*

Thanks for the comforting words Lynn.

My stomach's been in a knot. Just reminds me of when Penny was sick. She looks just like her.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

*Re: Abigail not feeling well-- still not well*

Oh, she drank some more and ate several bites of pine, a few more bites of oats and nibbled at her alfalfa pellets.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

*Re: Abigail not feeling well-- still not well*

I always give fortified b-complex to anyone who is off. It usually perks up their appetite and gives them more energy.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

*Re: Abigail not feeling well-- MASTITIS- SEE BOTTOM POST*

She has mastitis. I hadn't been milking her much because she wasn't making much and didn't want to stress her. She has salmon pink pudding on one side. I milked it, it's just starting to turn cold. She is not doing well. Any help is appreciated. I'm going back down there.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Got the swelling down almost back to normal in that half. It seems it is localizing by the teat, kind of a hard knot there. I'm hoping this is a good thing, figure it will make a place and rupture. The "milk" is thinner but still very bloody and only tiny amounts come out, like half a teaspoon.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Any chance she got bitten by something? Perhaps there by her teat? A paste of activated charcoal might help draw infection out of that area, regardless of the cause.


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## MayLOC (Oct 26, 2007)

is it possibly just edema? has she been coming into milk heavy and the blood streaking is just possibly from that?
does she still have a high temp? the other side is perfectly normal? and the bad side is swollen (hot?/tender?) and has a lump and is milking strange looking milk?
You know sometimes they get these little grain like things (ca deposits I think?) that pass through their teats. 
Have you ever sent milk into a lab before? I believe that LSU lab is near you that is listed in the goatkeeping 101. 
Before you do anything else to her, you should probably collect milk from both sides into those red-topped tubes and send for a culture if possible.
Is she still acting poorly? have you been giving banamine for the swelling? Do you have meds on hand for this that you might need? like infusions and antibiotics?

- oh, did she have any problems at dry off last year that she might be freshening with a problem now? any mastis last year? did you infuse her at dry off by any chance?


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

She is an FF, never freshened before. 

Not edema, milk is mostly blood. 

Her rumen has shut down. Her temp is 99. I gave her a cut xfer and will do another as well as get something on her to hold her body heat. 

She has drank some but will not eat. She gets up some on her own but mostly lays down.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Yes,, bad side has been swollen although that's almost totally down, she has a lump in the rear udder however.


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## MayLOC (Oct 26, 2007)

sorry, didn't catch that she was a FF.

did you give her any banamine during this? Have you given anything else?
did you get some milk pulled and put aside so you can start antibiotics?
do you have antibiotics and infusions??

I don't know what you mean by this; sorry : "I gave her a cut xfer and will do another "

also, regardless of what happens with Abigail, I would certainly get milk drawn on her from both sides.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Her udder half is cold or just below the bump in the teat.

Pretty sure sign of malignant edema, it starts as staph A and then quickly turns to gangreous mastitis. She really needs IV antibiotics to save her...Joyce L of saanendoah.com has successfully treated a doe down with it, they will loose the half of the udder but you can save them. She is in the ADGA directory. I would call her. Vicki


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## MayLOC (Oct 26, 2007)

how were things tonight Ashley? Sure sorry.


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## Julie (Jan 26, 2012)

Hope things are going better with Abigail. The bucks are so cute I'm trying to talk Jerry into letting me get one.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Well the rumen is going again. Last trip to the barn it was actually rolling good. I did like 3 or 4 cud transfers. Her temp came back up to 101.8, then my thermometer quit on me. She is very weak and tired. She isn't interested in food, but when I put some in her mouth, she will go ahead and chew and eat it. So been giving her some hay and browse, but not a lot, like 5-7 mouth fulls. I gave her some warm water with molasses and cayenne as the lady at fir meadows said and wow, she sucked it down like crazy. I was amazed. She has had that twice and so glad to see her drinking. I have hardly had time to eat or drink today. I am so tired but I know I can't sleep through the night. I will probably go three hours at a time. Her udder, the swelling is down. And yes, the cold has been around the teat. It got warm again, then cold again but so far, none of it is dying. She has a knot in the rear udder too, it's soft but there. Whatever this stuff is, it is super awful nasty. Unreal. I just don't' understand where this came from. The worse thing I have ever dealt with.

I did take a sample, although it's only about 1 cc, all she had, not sure if that's enough. I put it in the freezer. I am using antibiotics, I know they are not what you are familiar with, but they are what I am familiar with. I know the conventional treatment for this doesn't have a very promising outcome. cut xfers was supposed to be cud xfers.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

And I appreciate the help.


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## SALTCREEK_Nubians_Linda (Nov 13, 2007)

I always infuse Today when I have a hot udder. It helps my girls. I know you like to do herbal stuff, but Today has saved udders for me. You also can get a chilled milk sample to the vet for culture to make sure it isn't staph if you feel that Today isn't doing it. Sometimes anitibiotic is our friend.


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## dreamfirefarm (Nov 15, 2011)

I have saved does with bloody mastitis. gentamiacine diluted with warm sterile water infuse in udder at least twice a day, If the udder is cold it is dead and will slough. infuse the dead side with strong iodine to kill any mammary tissue that is left. that half will slough it is messy and sounds radical but it saves lives. I have saved udders when done fast enough. But unfortunately it sounds like it is too late. This is not an approved goat drug and I use it understanding the concerns. But it has saved valuable does both boer and dairy. just my opinion.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Last night was rough, one time I thought she was dead when she was laid out flat. Then she moved and I saw she was alive. She was kind of cast. She wouldn't drink anymore and I gave her two enemas for fluids (figured I could get more in that way anyway). 

But she is doing quite a bit better this morning, she actually ate on her own twice! She is also drinking again and she is acting stronger. Getting up easier and not so shaky. She went to the gate and called the other goats and called to her babies in the barn. Too bad she can't have them  Also has less draining from her eyes and nose and her eyelids look less inflamed. Her teat is iffy. Last night it looked really bad. It was blue and an obvious line where it was wanting to let go of it. Been working on it with the herbs including cayenne and it's kind of one step forward one step back. It actually looks a little better this morning. I pretty much wrote it off last night. 

It is beautiful weather here, 70 and sunny which I am very thankful for. Her rumen was trying to quit again last night, a hot pack on the rumen and more cud transfers seems to be helping, obviously, since she is eating better. We will see how she does today. 

She's definitely not out of the woods, but she is looking better.


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## Holly Govero (Mar 26, 2009)

I hope u get your girl get better!!! It is awful and scary to see a goat get sick! I hate that.


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## Julie (Jan 26, 2012)

Sure hope she gets better.


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## Rose (Oct 26, 2007)

Do not expect the cold teat to dry up and fall off quickly. We went through a spider bite situation with a doe starting in mid October. The dead teat didn't shed off till the second week of December.


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## Nancy (Oct 25, 2007)

Hope she is getting better.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

She is slowly improving. Last night I was going to sleep down there to make tending to her easier. When I came in there I caught her chewing her cud. First time I've seen her do that. I could t sleep because she kept talking to the other goats. She was also eating some straw here and there which is great. The teat was looking pretty bad last nigh. It is swollen out big and purple red. This morning it actually looks a little bit better! It didn't feel quite as cold either. 

She has had some congestion since yesterday which is obviously worrying. So we are working on that now. I am pretty sleep deprived. 

But overall she is feeling better. She is standing most of the time and she wants to be with the other goats. She was trying to get out of her pen at one point last night. Poor thing. But I guess if she is moving around and making too much noise for me to sleep that is a good thing.


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## Goat Town (Nov 20, 2010)

Ashley,

In 2009 I had a doe (Ruby) who came down with gangrene mastitis (blue bag). I worked very hard to save her life, but the whole right half of her udder sloughed off. It was a slow and painful experience for both of us. She went on to freshen again in 2010 and I milked her. But in 2011, she came down with mastitis in the other half of her udder and I could not cure it. I gave her to another breeder who took Ruby to the state veterinary school for a mascetomy and offer Ruby a retirement home.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Ok, I just got the big ole boogies out of her nose and now her breathing is just fine. :lol I took some pics of her udder. I'm going to take pics as we go along. Thought it might be interesting. She actually darted for the exit from the pen. I barely kept her blocked. She wants OUT! She is eating a little hay here and there on her own now. Seems a little dehydrated again, so gave her another enema, this time with some ginger tea. I washed her face off real good to get the crusties from her eyes and the dried stuff around her mouth from being drenched and she really seemed to like that. I can't believe I didn't get that boogers sooner.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

One of my other does has mastitis now  I'm hoping it's not the same kind. I have been using gloves and hand sanitizer when milking, and keeping them seperat etc. This milk is NOT bloody at all, it's coagulated. She had mastitis like this before, I think 3 years ago. I'm hoping it's that. I'm going to go crazy if she gets sick like this.


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

What kind of bedding are your milking does on? Straw or shavings? Are you using an iodine based teat dip after milking?


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

I use straw, although I put wood chips under the straw. I am starting to wonder if it could have anything to do with it, because it is something new here. I put straw over it, but they do dig sometimes (the chips aren't kiln dried, they are just fresh oak). Either way I'm getting rid of the stuff. 

I don't use iodine. NOthing against it, I just have a free source of colloidal silver and I add some peppermint oil and tea tree oil and use that. This second doe has been nursing however. And the first, freshened her first freshening with it, so it's not something they got from being milked.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Ashley do you vaccinate with lysigin?


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

No I do not. That's for staph right?


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Looked up the lysigin briefly, I will have to look into that. 

Baby has what seem to be hiccups. Unrelated?


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Where do you get your lysigin? Jeffers? I can give this to all my healthy goats no matter the age?


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

I don't know about goats, but oak is not good to use with horses, and green sawdust or shavings can carry bacteria.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Yes it's for staph A which is the precursor to malignant edema, you can't have one without the other....why it is part of my vaccination information in goatkeeping 101. Vicki


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

This morning Abigail is doing a lot better. She is eating pretty normally. Last night her rumen seemed to be on it's way down again and did another cud transfer and that one finally seemed to do it. Her udder is still awful of course, but it's all still alive and soft. So working hard on that. 

Baby does have the same thing. She is doing better than Abigail was at this point. Hoping catching it early and hitting it hard will lessen the severity and shorten the time as compared to Abigail. She is still eating a little on her own, but not a lot. Her udder is much bigger, being a five year old, so walking is difficult. But she does walk, just limps. She must have been milking a lot, I can't believe how hungry her kids are all the time. I am giving her the B's since she is not eating well.

I'm going to order the lysigin and start everyone on that. 

I realized the only doe in milk who hasn't got it is Josie, she is getting milked twice a day and getting the teat spray. So I've started spraying all their udders and teats with it when they are standing around. Hopefully a preventative until they have immunity. 

Some questions: 

---The does that are dry are less likely to get it I assume, correct? I know it's possible for them to get it? Just figuring it would be a lot harder since they have plugs in their teats. 

---Anything wrong with giving the girls the lysigin when they are going to be kidding soon?

---- I have several coming up on their due dates in March. One is going to kid before we can get it. Is it bad to give it to her right after she freshens? Should I do 14 days or 21?

---- Should Abigail and Baby eventually be vaccinated for it? If so, when?


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Oh, and how often as maintenance on the Lysigin.


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

Happy to say Abigail is making milk in her good half now.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

---The does that are dry are less likely to get it I assume, correct? I know it's possible for them to get it? Just figuring it would be a lot harder since they have plugs in their teats. Without a milk sample you don't know what you have, it's a pretty good guess it's Staph A but that is all it is...I have really good records of disease we have had and what we treated with and outcomes, and others farms also, I can not find the information on the mastitis that went through a herd that brought in bottom sand for their barn, does started freshening with mastitis, which I had never heard of, does who were not fresh catching mastitis.

No amount of iodine or any other post dip is going to keep your does from catching this, you have to strip your barn out. Our only real preventions from mastitis are cleanliness and vaccination which gives us immunity.---Anything wrong with giving the girls the lysigin when they are going to be kidding soon? No..
---- I have several coming up on their due dates in March. One is going to kid before we can get it. Is it bad to give it to her right after she freshens? Should I do 14 days or 21?

It makes no difference when you vaccinate, they have to have their second shot to have any immunity at all to this, so order it now, vaccinate as soon as you get it in.
---- Should Abigail and Baby eventually be vaccinated for it? If so, when?

When they are 100%.
Oh, and how often as maintenance on the Lysigin.

Just like you CD&T and/or Pasturella, after a goat of any age gets their first shot, their second shot 14 to 21 days later according to the label dosages, you give it yearly. Since Lysigin is not about immunity in the colostrum I don't give this prekidding, I give this prebreeding. But it makes no difference at all when you vaccinate, pregnancy etc...but vaccination is not given to ill goats.


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