# Cystic doe



## lonestrchic23 (Jan 7, 2011)

Ginger is 8 and came home with me late March of this year.... She has cystic ovaries & kidded in March, previous owner used Cystorelin last year.

This is all new territory for me so I just wanted to make sure the dosage is 2cc IM on the Cystorelin, given IM... Correct?

She was in standing, annoying heat for 3 straight days last weekend.... Let the buck at her just to shut her up (she has one of the most annoying goat voices). Odds are slim that she actually concieved, so if she comes in again, do I give her the Cystorelin at first sign of heat, or after she's been bred (I've been told both ways). Just one dose & she's good?

In the past I'm told she short cycled every 7+ days or so without the Cystorelin, so if she's going to do that again, it should be soon.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

I quite literally give it to them when being bred, take her away from the buck as I see her bred, give her the shot and make her stay with him at least another 12 hours. 1cc IM is what I use, but considering it comes in a 2cc vial, and others are saying they use the whole 2cc (a cow dose) why not  Vicki


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

I was taught to give 1cc IM Cystorelin when doe comes into heat.........live breed.........give 1cc IM Cystorelin 24 hours later.


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## lonestrchic23 (Jan 7, 2011)

The bottle I have is a 10ml bottle....

Glad I asked before making assumptions! 8)

I've heard several variations of what I should do, various doses & even some have told me to use it with Lute.... Others say I have to use PG600 with it, but I don't have PG600 & can't afford to get a big bottle just to waste most of it...

I just want her bred so I can send this buck packing after I get confirmation via blood test.


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

If you want to speed up the process after your first shot of 1cc of Cystorellin gets rid of the cystic follicle: instead of waiting for the next natural heat, you can give her 2cc Lutalyse (to get her cycling) on day 7 after cystorellin shot, then 2 days later another shot of Cystorellin, and then breed her 12-14 hours later. Ovsynch/7-2-1 system: it worked for my cystic doe.


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## lonestrchic23 (Jan 7, 2011)

Marion- So you're saying I can give her the Cystorelin now instead of waiting for signs of another heat, then lute 7 days later, then 2 days after that, another shot of Cystorelin? 

I wouldn't need PG600 to get her ovulating (cant get PG600)? 

The sooner I can get her bred, the better.... Then I'd just have to wait on 2 jr does & then I can send the buck packing


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

7 days would not give eggs time to ripen to be fertilized by the eggs. When a doe is cystic she is not ovulating, they are stuck behind snot on the ovary. You want semen in her system, then give the shot which breaks the ripened eggs free of the snot, the semen lasts a few days up in the doe, inseminates the eggs and she implants. It's breeding season, don't see any reason to be doing much more with hormones than just getting the shot off the eggs.

I did use the whole protocol, CIDR, PG600, Cysterellon, but I knew ahead of time I was going to breed my doe who had cystic ovaries this way from then on. But a doe short cycling, just give her the Cysterellon...


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

Just how long long does sperm last once it enters the doe? I've heard everything from 48 hours up to 8 days.


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

I don't want to argue at all. I have used the 7-2-1 sucessfully, but it only works in exactly that sequence, no extra days. As stated there is NO research on this with goats, but it has been extensively researched and applied on cows. I followed the 7-2-1 with my cystic doe who came in heat every 7 days and it worked perfectly on her. Realize that the fact that there is a cystic follicle messing with your doe's hormonal balance/sequence, does NOT mean that there aren't any follicles ready to ovulate BEHIND the cystic follicle, so you pop the cystic one with the cystorellin, lute to get cycle going and then pop (ovulate) next (normal) follicle with cystorellin and that's the ovulation that's breedable. 
PG600 I guess is optional. I don't have nubians and am not interested in more than twins, so since PG600 is to super ovulate (more eggs so muliples born), I am not a fan of it for my Saanens. So your choice there.

Marion


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

PG600 forces ovulation of fertile eggs, it does not super ovulate unless high dosages are given. Lutelyse will only bring a doe into heat, it has nothing at all to do with ovulation and without ovulation you do not have an egg for sperm to inseminate. Cysterellon only dissolves snot off ovaries, if there is no ripe eggs ready, there is no eggs to burst through the snot free ovary. Vicki


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

I agree, Vicki, I misstated the PG600 use. In a cystic doe, though, there is a cystic follicle to pop, that's why she's cystic. There may be some mucus (snot?) around the cystic follicle(s), but it's the follicles you treat (and turn into a Corpus Luteum) by using GnRH:

From the Merck veterinary Manual:
_The affected ovaries generally are enlarged and rounded, but their size varies, depending on the number and size of cysts. Their surface is smooth, elevated, and blister-like, particularly when cysts exceed 2.5-3 cm in diameter. Cysts frequently are multiple and may approach 4-6 cm in diameter. Under the influence of hormones produced by the cystic ovary or the lack of hormones (especially progesterone) normally present during estrous cycles, the uterus undergoes palpable changes, which in turn vary with the duration of the cystic condition. _

If a doe has been cystic for a very long time, it may be good to use cystorellin, lute and then wait it out a bit, since a long term cystic situation can affect the does uterus and therefore limit her ability to immediately (if at all) start cycling again and become pregnant, but if the doe is just cystic and you catch it relatively fast, you can go a bit faster. Just my opinion, I don't expect everyone to agree.

Marion


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

All I know is what worked here. And lutelyse and the information from vets didn't work, I take no stock at all in something written as fact when it has zero application to what works on the actual animal being written about. Johnathan Bland (Pearl Valley Alpines) was the first person I knew who was successfully using Cird's, PG600 etc.. and I use his protocol, a vet/goat gal who used to post on the WSU site before the new gal took over shared her Cysterellon story years ago, it's all I have used and what I share. And I think how I explain it is super easy to understand for new folks, and who I am addressing. 

I only reposted because of the info that you said that PG600 was only about super-ovulating, it is about ovulating period, and yes when Johnathan used it initially he used a lot more than the 1.5cc IM we use now and had live quints and quads all over the place. Vicki


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## lonestrchic23 (Jan 7, 2011)

Thanks y'all! I get the hormones & their uses all confused, so I really wanted to make sure I understood before I started injecting anything.

I dunno how long Ginger has been cystic....

I think I'm going to wait for her to cycle again. She was in standing heat for 3 days last weekend, & bred, so my luck, if by some weird chance she did concieve, I'd likely screw it up trying anything now.... If she's going to short cycle she should be doing it in a few days, so I'll just wait & watch.

Now I just have to be patient....


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

Yes, NEVER mess with hormones when she could (even remotely) possibly be pregnant! Wait until another short cycle and then decide which route you want to take. Good luck, it can be tricky to figure out those beasts of ours :biggrin


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

Let us know what happens, Crystal.


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## dreamfirefarm (Nov 15, 2011)

I have used cystorellin successfully several times on older does 1 ml shot just like Vickie said give her a shot when she is in heat and breed her its worked everytime for me.


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