# CDT VS Tetanus only



## Agape Oaks (Oct 30, 2007)

OK, I'm about to order vaccines. I had thought maybe I'd do Tetanus only vaccine this year as I really hate those bumps mine seem to get under their arm from the CDT. Looking at it, the tetanus only is a LOT more money then CDT. Am I likely not to get the bump under the arm with tetanus only, or is it something I'm doing wrong? I never get those with Bo-Se or anti biotics, but most of them get it with CDT. If I won't get the bump, it's worth paying the extra money, if i'll get the bump anyways, I'll stick with the cDT. Any ideas? What do y'all do?


----------



## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

Even though the C/D vaccinations are sometimes not enough...entro, I still give them. I also give my tetanus IM. I really don't think you are going to find a vaccine that doesn't leave a knot, sometimes. I've also went to giving the C/D vaccine further back at the bottom of the rib cage. Under the foreleg, though it hides the knot in the showring (the reason I was given for giving the shot there,yrs. ago????)...it also causes the animal to limp from swelling. I've found out that I really don't care if the knot shows...at least my goats aren't limping.

I give my C/D vaccine seperate from my tetanus because this place has always had horses. Major carriers of tetanus. 
I don't think I would try to save money by shorting in the vaccinations dept. It's just too big a risk.
JMO,
Kaye


----------



## ecftoggs (Oct 26, 2007)

Last year we gave our CD&T shots in the loose flank skin of the rear leg. Although the bumps were still there they weren't as obvious and it did not inhibit the goats movements as much.
Tim


----------



## Agape Oaks (Oct 30, 2007)

Hi Kaye
So you give seperately CD & tetanus? I've never had horses on my place at all & I know they're major carriers......I waiver between wanting to vaccinate & not wanting to at all. I know the CD part of the vaccine isn't very effective which was why I was thinking of doing tetanus only.


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Lump isn't technique it's the carrier in the shot, it's supposed to happen, this granuloma forms and shows the does immunity kicking in to fight the shot. I hide these granulomas in the muscle, they are still there, just in the muscle. Now a shot site that abscess is simply a dirty technique.

When choosing sbuq you want to go with an area that has alot of loose pliable skin to absorb into, and that is not the armpit.

I give just CD&T, now if I had problems with tetanus or entero etc...than yes I would move to single vaccinations. Vicki


----------



## Agape Oaks (Oct 30, 2007)

Hi Vicki
So rather then SubQ, you give the vaccines IM? Wouldn't that granuloma cause them to limp? Do you prefer the CDT to the tetanus? I had herad that the CD part wasn't effective anyways, so wasn't sure I was wanting to give an ineffective vaccine.


----------



## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

Cl. Perfringens, Types C & D Tetanus Toxoid
(Boehringer) Vaccine for immunizing sheep, goats & cattle against tetanus & overeating disease caused by Cl. Perfringens & Types C & D Tetanus Toxoid. Safe for pregnant cows. Inject SQ.

Dosage:
Sheep & goats: 2 ml
Cattle: 5 ml

Repeat in 21-28 days & once annually.
(This info was taken from the Jeffers site)

The Cd/T vaccine is a combo vaccine. It vaccinates against Tetanus, but it also vaccinates your goats against over eating disease (see the info above). The Cd part of the vaccine is an important vaccine that your goat should have because it could cause some problems if they are not vaccinated against it. You should vaccinate your adult goats annually and your kids should be vaccinated at 6,9, and 12 weeks of age.


----------



## Guest (Jan 23, 2008)

I was looking for some CDT the other day to vaccinate some does of Dad's. He had 8 way blackleg in the fridge which has the C @ D in it I know but it wasn't labeled for goats, only cattle. Would it have worked, or is the other stuff in the 8 way dangerous? Or is this basically the same thing as Covexin 8. I can't remember the brand name on the bottle.


----------



## Cotton Eyed Does (Oct 26, 2007)

I personally would not use that vaccine on my goats. No reason to vaccinate against diseases that our goats won't get. I don't know if if could be harmful. Also, my understanding of combo vaccines is that the more diseases that are covered with a single injection vaccine the more diluted the vaccine is. This is why (and she can correct me if this is wrong) I believe Kaye gives the individual Cd vaccine and a separate Tetatnus vaccine instead of giving the combo Cd/T.


----------



## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

OK....

When Bar Vac moved from subq/IM on the label to just subq I contacted them. I not only got to talk to a guy in the actual lab where we talked at length about the granuloma that is formed when vaccinating with their product but why the change in label. It was a change in label for the beef industry so cuts of meat were not ruined by this granulma at butcher in major muscle cuts. There was not a change of carrier, so I still use Bar Vac CD&T IM.

If you learn to give muscle injections correctly you will not have limping, those giving in the rear leg must learn that there are two halves to the muscle group with a nerve running between them, keep the needle out of this area and they will not limp.

I would only use covexin 8 if you have been diagnosed in your herd or your area or the person you purchase your goats from uses it because they have had problems with those clostridiums it covers....like black leg...malignant edema, gangrenous mastitis.

In my herd I use CD&T 2cc repeat 2cc repeat 2cc to kids, so like with my pups their last vaccination is after they are 12 weeks old. If I had problems with tetanus or entero in my herd I would not use this multi shot and I would give C&D Toxoid and Tetanus toxoid seperatly. And honestly you can reach the same levels by moving to the cow dose on your CD&T.

And when you do use multi vaccines like covexin 8 you have to give the whole amount listed, giving 1cc this week, and 2 cc next week and the crazy schedules on the internet, make no sense.

I agree with Chris I don't vaccinate with things my goats don't get...like my pnemnia vaccine it is for Pasteurella only, I have never seen a diagnosis in goats that was for IBR or the other alphabets of pnemonia that nasalgen and other vaccines give cattle.

It does become personal, it's you goats, I do listen to my vet about what is going on in the area, with 350 acres of cattle behind me. So you might want to ask your dad if he uses the black leg vaccines because this is prevelant in your area. Vicki


----------



## Guest (Jan 23, 2008)

I didn't go ahead and give it because it wasn't labeled for goats. I guess what I was wondering is the 7 and 8 way Blackleg vaccines the same thing as Covexin 8. If I had known for sure it was I would have gone ahead and vaccinated. Guess it doesn't really matter because I waited and got some CDT, just curious if it would have caused problems. It was in the fridge for the cattle, dad would not have remember to vaccinate period if I didn't check up on him a little.


----------



## Guest (Jan 23, 2008)

Thinking about this though. I did have trouble a couple of years ago and lost 3 calves with blackleg,( because I had not vaccinated) had one posted and thats what it was. If you have this on the place do you need to move to a product like Covexin 8. I have never had any trouble with the goats. Do they even get blackleg.


----------



## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

Chris,
Maybe - highly unlikely. BUT...not at the higher rate of bovines and ovines.
Reading goat med...Interestingly, these clostridial infections (blackleg and malignant edema) are uncommon in goats. Going on to say...In the US, it has been observed that blackleg and malignant edema are virtually unknown in goats, even where the diseases occur frequently in other animals on the same premises.

I wouldn't use the multi-disease vaccinations, unless I had definitely had a post that revealed one of the cattle diseases in my goats.
Kaye


----------



## Guest (Jan 24, 2008)

Ya'll correct me if I am thinking the wrong way here.......but I use this as a general rule of thumb. If I'm buying products, whether it be vaccines, feed, minerals, etc. from reputable manufactures, and it is labeled for goats, then I can only assume that the research has been done in the lab/field to back up any claims that they make on their products. Under this line of thinking, I can only assume that these products are better in some way than products that are used across different species of animals. 
Now I know that one shoe ain't gonna fit all goats, and different areas pose different deficiencies/problems.....but if we stick close as we can to what is made for goats, won't we be much better off than using products that may have some question to whether it will even be effective or sub-par at best.

Whim


----------



## Guest (Jan 24, 2008)

Thanks Kaye, that makes sense. 

I don't know whimmiddle. I've had people tell me anything that has Goat or horse on it just means it cost more. If we know what is actually in the feed, vaccine, or minerals and it is the same thing why pay extra ? I did buy the Kent Goat Milker pellets for a while but they had a lot of unknowns in the label I didn't like. I do use a Sweet lix mineral for goats too, but if I could find a mineral around here that would address the copper issue I would probably switch. I tried the Purina Goat mineral, they wouldn't touch it.


----------



## Melissa (Oct 27, 2007)

another reason to use different animal anything is that their's not a lot of stuff out there for goats. take red cell for instance. you need iron in a doe and you need it fast. what are you going to use? red cell is labled for horses. lets face it, goat just aren't up there with cows, horses, pigs, or even sheep. the money spent on testing products for them is only now starting to become competitive with the smaller stock. it may never be up there with cows or horses.

-Melissa


----------



## Qvrfullmidwife (Oct 25, 2007)

We vaccinate separate after losing a totally vaccinated animal to tetanus. We figure we can't totally control things like that but this was one change that we could make that seemed to make sense in protecting valuable livestock.

We will especially continue to do so now that we have horses on the property.

The other big change that we made was that we throw away unused vaccines within 24 hrs of when we open them. I always read "discard unused portion" and figured it to be just mumbojumbo to increase the manufacturers bottom line. Then after we lost our buck I spent time talking to lots of people about vaccines in general. When I ran into medical doctor after medical doctor who cited to me the rapid rate of decline of efficacy after a vaccine is opened, I just dont save them anymore, it isnt worth it to me. I also make sure if anyone in our family has to have a shot (say a tetanus booster) that I SEE the single use syringe unopened or the bottle unopened before they get the shot.


----------

