# Preparing for delivery of new kids



## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

What should a new goat farmer plan to keep on hand for a new litter of goat kids? Please list whatever items you would make sure you had in stock or think might be needed during delivery problems or even if there are no problems.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

ob lube, weak kid syringe, bottles and nipples (even if you're dam raising, just in case), bo-se or sel/e gel, colostrum, towels or paper towels, preparation h (for the dam's bottom if it gets swollen)
Some folks keep a lot more than this on hand. In an easy kidding, you may only need some towels to help dry off the kids. In a difficult kidding, you may need a kid puller or even a vet or other experienced person. You might need antibiotics to flush the doe out. I am sure I will think of more as time goes on.
My first kidding, I just watched and the doe cleaned and nursed the babies. All i did was get rid of the placenta. Other births have been more difficult. Read through all the posts on the forum from the past to get a feel for what could possibly happen but know that most folks write in here because they have a problem and the vast majority of births go smoothly.


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

I'll repeat, weak kid syringe and colostrum. My first doe to kid this year was early. We figured 10-14 days as the kids teeth didn't come in for 10 days after she was born. Dam had no milk/colistrum. Had to be tube fed for 4 days.
Also, strong iodine (7%) for dipping hooves and navels.and vit E caps. I also keep oxytocin (script) to help does clean out and bring milk in.


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## janner (Nov 3, 2012)

I would have some MFO on hand in case of milk fever with the doe. I would have two really good flashlights if you don't have electricity and would study diagrams of what to do if babies are not aligned correctly. The hardest part for me is having a plan for the kids...are you keeping them, are you bottle feeding them, has the doe been tested for CAE and do you know how to heat treat milk/colostrum? Also, it is really important to have as clean a barn as you can to prevent cocci. Know the signs of cocci in kids and how to treat it if it rears it's ugly head..I am just adding to above comments and there is lots more to think about. I watched literally every video on YouTube of goat births, but they are mostly all textbook, but at least I knew what to expect,
janice


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## Dairyfarmer (Mar 11, 2014)

Simple things make it easier-I'd also recommend some kind of container you are comfortable with to keep your supplies so there is no last minute scrambling. In addition to flashlights, I would add a decent headlamp (it is nice to have both hands free)-and check batteries.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Oh yes! A head lamp is an awesome idea! Even though my barns have lights, I still use flashlights to look for proper presentation.


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

OK silly question - how do you know WHEN it's about to happen? She is already acting weird like last the day before yesterday she knocked the door off the henhouse completely by repeatedly hitting it with hoof and ramming with her horns/head bent it back against the hinges and broke the whole thing off had to repair it yesterday morning. Last night she wouldn't get out of the henhouse when I was about to lock it up after all the chickens went in at nightfall. Guessing she is looking for a nice little place to drop her kids soon?


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

Is there chicken feed in the henhouse? Would explain the sick doe in your other thread.


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

short answer is no. technically yes but I have a blind chicken keep it in a cage inside the henhouse cage is like nearly 6 foot tall and I put a feeder on top of that - they have only gotten into the chicKen feed once. I'm pretty careful to only refill the chicken feeder when they are either out to browse or distracted with their own feed buckets.

On a side note last night saw three tiny mice in the henhouse. Saw one a week ago and didn't worry because I had read that chicken eat mice but apparently these chickens just watch the mice making baby mice. Cant use snap traps because will hurt chickens (or goat noses) cant use sticky traps because will get scratch dust and bedding instead of mice, cant use poison for obvious similar reasons, cant really use a cat because cats like birds and my cat is a 99% indoor cat. Really stumped as to what should be done to get rid of mice. I even tried one of those barrel traps with the peanut butter roller in middle of 5 gallon bucket. These mice are too smart for that even.


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

your question does raise the obvious question why would chicken feed make a goat sick?


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## Ne[email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

Anything that they aren't used to or eat to much of will make a goat sick. As to the mice, cats won't hurt full grown chickens. Or we use a Tom Cat trap. The poison is in a locked *box* with a hole just large enough for mice/rats.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Exactly. There is nothing in most chicken feeds that is dangerous to goats, it is just that goats will scarf it down and then get diarrhea or bloat or impaction from it. My goats don't get pelletized feed ever so any of it would upset my goats digestion.


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Anything that they aren't used to or eat to much of will make a goat sick. As to the mice, cats won't hurt full grown chickens. Or we use a Tom Cat trap. The poison is in a locked *box* with a hole just large enough for mice/rats.


sounds good - any chance if they (mice) die near the henhouse the chickens would peck at the dead mouse and get some of the poison?


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

Never had a problem with it.


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## janner (Nov 3, 2012)

informative said:


> sounds good - any chance if they (mice) die near the henhouse the chickens would peck at the dead mouse and get some of the poison?


I would worry about this too..and also dead, rotting mice around my goat feed. What we use is a lot like your bucket trap, but we cut the top 1/3 of a milk jug off and smear peanut butter all around the inside for about an inch and put several inches of water in the bottom. My cousin caught 9 mice on his tractor in one night w/ this trap and I have caught 3 at a time using one.

I also use regular mouse traps and just put them where the cats can't reach like under the hay pallets. I did actually read the directions on a mouse trap  and learned to put the bait side next to a wall and sure enough, I caught mice that had been eluding me for weeks!
Good luck, mice are not nice,
janice


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## Dairyfarmer (Mar 11, 2014)

Since we are in the midst of kidding. . . I'm thinking about what else we have that is of help to us (in addition to what others have listed) . . .

We use unprinted newspaper to catch and wipe kids. Mucus sticks to the paper and getting that off the kid makes further cleaning and drying quicker and simpler. It is also cheaper than paper toweling and does not mess-up towels that may have to be laundered.

We have a small microwave in the barn-we use it to heat towels. We catch the kids, clear mucus, wipe down with the paper, then a clean towel, then a towel warmed in the microwave.

We place the kids in a rubbermade container with their very own heated towel-more rolled towels if it is colder, before transport into a room in our home.

We clear mucus by holding the kid head down to help clear passageways, sometimes carefully swinging it, and very gently pull mucus out of mouth and nostrils with a nasal syringe.

Yesterday, we had 11 does kid. One kid was born weak, floppy, encased in mucus and close to non-responsive, heart rate was very slow and struggling to take shallow breaths. Passageways were cleared, he was warmed, and for the first time I used a lamb/kid resuscitator I had purchased from Valleyvet.com a century ago. I was able to gently pull additional mucus out using the aspirator mask, and then used the resuscitator mask. Just followed the directions on the pump housing. I thought the kid was a goner, but after a few minutes-his heart rate increased and breathing was more normal. Ten minutes later he took a little colostrum, and last night a hearty 12 oz.
I'm not recommending that folks with just a few goats have on hand a lamb/kid resuscitator-but I now know that it is one tool I can use to possibly save a weak kid.

OK, so in addition to the headlamp, I'll add the newspaper (we use unprinted) , a microwave for warming towels, container of sorts to put the kids in to keep them warm and safe, and a nasal syringe to extract mucus. The lamb/kid resuscitator has been used once in four years and probably 300+ birthings-so I would not recommend it for someone with a few animals-and there may be better less pricey ways (ours cost ~$85).

Best Wishes on Kidding!!!!!

Ron-The Mucus Master


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

The mucus master, LOL!


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## 7dsranch (Oct 25, 2012)

To add to the items I have read others use. Besides iodine for the navel cords we also have a small container of navel clips on hand in our little birthing kit we have ready during kidding season. I have used them on the kids with long cords and they will fall off as the cord drys. They are also reusable, so the ones that fall off we sanitize them so they can be reused if need be. 

The other thing I have not seen mentioned that we have in our kit is surgical blue gloves, we also have a couple of the ones that go clear up your arm in case you have to go in and reposition a kid. It has only happened twice in the 16 years we have had goats, but still a good emergency addition just in case.

I also have Nutri-drench on hand to give to the dams and babies, especially if they are not thriving like they should be. Along with that I always take a bucket of warm water with molasseses and Karo mixed to replenish their sugar. They absolutely love it, and swill it up. I have a few times just used dark Karo when I didn't have molasseses on hand and it worked just as well. This helps the girls not to get ketosis. The only doe I lost to ketosis did not get this mixture right after kidding like I normally do.

The last item I would like to mention is old newspapers to wrap the placenta in. A goat breeder 16 years ago told me that, and it works very well. I usually take the wrapped up placenta and stick it in a store plastic bag tie the handles and toss in the garbage.

In conclusion the 5 additional items to those already mentioned are: navel clips, surgical gloves, Nutri-drench, warm molasseses/Karo water, and old newspapers to wrap placentas.


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

janner said:


> I would have some MFO on hand in case of milk fever with the doe. ...janice


First I have heard of Milk Fever. How does kidding bring this issue to the surface? What are the symptoms? Likeliness?

--Thanks to everyone for all the many helpful good suggestions.

So, here is the 'short list' I have half of it and plan to get most of it in the next few days.

Clean the barn, weak kid syringe, colostrum (milk replacer?), iodine (7%) for dipping hooves and navel cords, Vitamin E caps, headlamp, flashlights, paper towels, warm towels, newspapers to wrap placentas, navel clips, surgical gloves, Nutri-drench, warm molasseses/Karo water, OB lube, bottles and nipples (even if you're dam raising, just in case), bo-se or sel/e gel, preparation h (for the dam's bottom if it gets swollen), antibiotics to flush the doe out (I have Pen-G and Liquimycin in stock presently), rubbermade container to place the baby on a warm towel inside of. MFO for milk fever? Oxytocin (script) to help does clean out and bring milk in?

Any risk of tetanus during all of this?


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Milk fever is from low calcium. It actually causes a drop in body temperature, so it is a misnomer. The does diet and health will determine the likelihood of milk fever/hypocalcemia. It happens when a doe begins to use her available calcium to build her unborn kids' bones and make milk. 
Tetanus is not too likely with birthing, but goats should already be vaccinated with CDT.


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

doublebowgoats said:


> Milk fever is from low calcium. It actually causes a drop in body temperature, so it is a misnomer. The does diet and health will determine the likelihood of milk fever/hypocalcemia. It happens when a doe begins to use her available calcium to build her unborn kids' bones and make milk.
> Tetanus is not too likely with birthing, but goats should already be vaccinated with CDT.


Would powdered human baby formula maybe be a thing I could add to their diet weekly to boost things like calcium or maybe make a flock block with rolled oats and ground eggshells or something to ward hypocalcemia in pregnant does? I was wondering why the goats were bullying the chickens off their last flock block when I tossed it into the chicken section of the pen.


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

A better choice for improving their calcium is to make sure that they have plenty of alfalfa in their diet.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

If your goats were fighting for the eggshells, that is a good indication that their diet is too low in calcium. Stacey is right, alfalfa is the best thing for increasing calcium in their diet. It also great at boosting protein.


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

They ran out but are very fond of those alfalfa horse cubes (silver color poly bag at TS) but they are so big I usually have to break them into slices for them as a treat - I'll add it to my shopping list thanks!


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## Dee Kennerly (Apr 7, 2010)

*Alfalfa pellets*

Hi Ray, When the goats went after the flock block they were going for the seeds and the sweet molasses that holds the block together, which is not good for them. If you are shopping at Tractor Supply, that is where we get the Standlee Alfalfa pellets. They are compressed alfalfa, no grain additives, and the goats love them. We offer them available all the time. They will eat what they want and come back when they need a little more. I have too many now to leave it out at all times, so I fill one of those square black rubber tubs that hook over a two by four on the wall and then we attached it with screws. I will take a photo when I can. So now I fill it in the morning, feed them their regular feed in the other feeder and find that after they are all satisfied, there is usually some alfalfa left in the tub. Then I do the same at the evening feeding. All my does are delivering their kids this month, so we have been busy, and I notice they are going for the alfalfa before their feed. I am having to add more alfalfa now for the does rather than increase their feed yet. They need the alfalfa for calcium now more than the extra calories in the feed they get. After all the kids are born, I will increase the feed gradually for the does feeding kids and the does I will be milking. We bred 20 Mini-Lamancha does in November and as of today, 9 have kidded so far, 3 with twins, 5 with triplets and 1 with quads, giving us a total of 25 kids, 18 does and 7 bucks. Only "11" more to go! Try the pellets, they are easier for me and the goats to handle. Dee


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Alfalfa pellets are the most cost efficient way of feeding them alfalfa. No waste at all. And easily digested. Milk powder would be much more costly and some goats don't like milk once they are grown.


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

So I tried the Standlee Alfalfa pellets and one of the yearlings started eating them and actually hacked them back up and spit them out on the ground. Weird. I'll probably stick to the Dumor Alfalfa Horse Cubes - they like those more.


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

I would imagine that the yearling ate them too fast and got a bunch stuck in her throat.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

They will get used to eating them, they just choke sometimes from eating fast. It sounds like she really liked them to me


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

doublebowgoats said:


> They will get used to eating them, they just choke sometimes from eating fast. It sounds like she really liked them to me


They did better with them today - I think it is the shape is longer and fatter than the typical grain pellets


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

Is there any clues to delivery? usually daytime or nighttime? Any odd behavior or sounds they make when getting ready? I just see a couple of them (pregnant ones) doing odd stuff like going behind the barn and banging their head on the middle of the wall - they like being alone and making noise and maybe are trying to modify the barn?

They are also breaking in to the hen house and hanging out in there at night. I don;t see the harm although they may get bird poop on them birds are up high on roosts at night mostly except the broody one


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Usually a doe's udder will get really tight and shiny right before she kids and the ligaments around the tailhead soften giving the doe an appearance of having a broken tail. 
Make sure there are enough private places for the doe to kid if you are not going to remove her from the group when labor begins. Also make sure there is not a buck around. They can harass the doe to the point where it results in the death of kids.


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## RKAcresGoats (Apr 8, 2014)

Mine are always extremly restless as well. They dig a hole, get up, dig another hole, lay down, get up, etc.. A clearish discharge comes out about 6 hours before kidding.


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

I went back to the Dumor green/silver bag of alfalfa cubes they just eat the heck out of those and since they take more work they get a cube and go off and chew on it like an alfalfa jerky for a while - some of the more docile ones will sit and wait for me to break off slices to hand feed them those (less work I guess). This time of year the field has a TON of small elm trees and they like those a lot so hopefully going to do with less feed and fewer tractor supply invoices for at least a while - more graze less lugging home truck beds of 50 lb sacks


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Well, I just hope they are getting enough to get the proper amount of calcium.


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

Calcium should be fine - their teats last day or two went from being long and fat to having the little balls near the tops where the udder is filling up. It is right at about 5 months now. They also started looking thinner (dropping?) Do goats go to milk without actually kidding ever? Any chance they are just huge and fat and not actually pregnant? Starting to wonder since they actually look a little thinner this week than last.


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

I am absolutely shocked to report that apparently none of them are pregnant - we would now be at 165 days or more and there is no way they are pregnant. I learned they can go into milk or ready to milk without delivering babies. I even see the little white tips milk plugs on their teats and they are just getting less fat now with more grazing and less grain (post winter) weight loss looks like.

A couple of them are just fat pigs that eat too much I guess.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

When is the last date they were with a buck?


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

doublebowgoats said:


> When is the last date they were with a buck?


They have not been with the proper breeding buck since 166 days ago when we acquired them. They still have fat milkable looking uders (I resist trying to milk them because figured they need that for the babies if they ever have any). I'll grab some updated photos today.

There is the new oberhasli buckling who has not been seen playing the mounting game with the others for quite some time now (three months or so). But he has always been in with them. Last time he was seen "playing mount" was like 3 months ago but not seen with the larger ones just the smaller ones (the three yearling sized not with any of the four larger does which includes the two that look really pregnant).


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## fmg (Jul 4, 2011)

I'm going to guess that they are bred to your young oberhasli buck...they can be really sneaky.


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## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

I agree with Nancy. There is no way none of your does wouldn't be bred. Maybe one or two wouldn't take, but not all. Some bucks don't go for all the outward displays of mounting and other buckiness, they just go out there and get the job done.


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

So to my shock the goats were just obese and apparently ready to milk but not pregnant. Well they are about to be pregnant now because my young buck finally is in rut now. Rubbing his head on the ground and bushes and small trees and making weird noises and chasing the girls around and sometimes he pees on his chin hairs and self and other gross stuff like sniffing where the girls pee and such - pretty nasty this whole buck in rut thing. 

So to my question - should I separate him out for a couple of months to prevent winter deliveries? I'm thinking the answer is yes (and I'm about to do that but this came on just the last couple of days) doesn't look like he is actually catching them they just do the bullfighter thing OLE and step forward a few steps and he fails every time to get any joy from the looks of it. Poor George.


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## informative (Aug 24, 2012)

*Our buck George*

So here is an image of George and our LGD Tibbers she is a sweetie and very good at keeping things away at night (just wish she could do it more quietly)


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