# How do I get ADGA to register a goat for NOA?



## Dana (Dec 7, 2009)

I have one LaMancha that is purebred but the previous owner wants too much money to sell me her papers. It's my daughter's doe and she would like to get her registered somehow.

I also have a LaMancha doe who is beautiful and has tattooing on her tail but the numbers are unreadable. I got her at a sale barn and she has turned out to be the best dairy goat!!

So I am a member of ADGA and I have seen paperwork for Certificate of Identification. Is that what I fill out and send in to ADGA? I thought someone had to come out and verify the goat had the appearance of a LaMancha?

thanks for any help/ advice...
Dana


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## Aja-Sammati (Oct 26, 2007)

To register a goat as a NOA grade, you have to have an ADGA member write a letter saying that they have looked at the goat blah blah (description, tattoo) and that she is native on appearance for X breed. Now, the breeder that doesn't want to sell you the papers for a reasonable amount may have reported the goat sold without papers...so using the tattoo that she has may become an issue. It can be doable, but it can be a long haul. The easiest NOA's are goats you get with no tattoo, and you add one!


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

If you send me a photo, a good one straight on and a side profile of the head, I will do LaMancha's and Nubians...I don't do other breeds because I think NOA should be done by those who have bred the breed. You have to give me all the information, what you are going to name her, you can use your herdname, her birthdate, what you are going to tattoo her with, and remember if there is stuff already in her tail you are going to have to work your tattoo's around it. I have asked many times for them to allow flank tattoos. Since her paperwork has to include other numbers and letters found in her ear/tail as a retatoo, make sure and call ADGA and find out exactly what they want you to do. Because everything in the ear/tail must be on the papers for a show win or to appraise. Since she has lost her lineage, she carries your herd name and your tattos. Also of course I need your name and address to send you back the letter I write.

You just fill out a normal application of registry with your doe, as if she was an infant, and yes you have to pay more because she is older than 24 months. IF you are going to show or appraise it's worth it to register your doe, if you aren't, it's meaningless, because you can still register her kids as unknown on her part and registered on the buck you are using...well as long as he is American or better. Vicki


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## Dana (Dec 7, 2009)

Do registered goats have to have tattooing?


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2010)

yes they do Dana... 
Barb


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## Rambar Ranch (Oct 25, 2007)

Vicki, I just had a conversation with ADGA just last week on a doeling that was tattooed wrong and fixing it. They said I could re-tattoo the correct herd prefix in her ears, tail webs, or her shank. So they will allow a tattoo in a place other than ordinarily placed.

Ray


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

Dana, I don't know how much is too much for her papers, but if she's a really nice doe it may be worth it. If you register her NOA, her papers will come back 0% Grade La Mancha. It will take three generations of breeding to get American La Manchas and any bucklings won't be able to be registered until they are out of an American doe. Yoi'll be able to get more money for the kids if they are registered as purebreds.
Years back, I bought a very nice LM doeling from an auction. Her dam had been sold to a commercial dairy, so was not registered. The breeder had a clean, nice herd, but needed to reduce her numbers. Rather than pay to register her dam, who I didn't own in order to register Blossom as a purebred, I registered her NOA. This doe gave me some really nice bucklings who wound up going for meat because they could not be papered. Her daughters, Hyacinth and Cherry are 50% grade La Manchas so their bucklings will also be meat or go cheap to someone who just needs a buck to freshen their does. In hindsight, I should have done what I needed to get Blossom registered as a purebred. She was a champion doe.


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## Dana (Dec 7, 2009)

Okay, a lot of information to process. I realllly appreciate everyone's advice and help.

I love this doe's conformation, (I will try to get a pic of her on here) and I want to get into purebred LaManchas. But I question if it's worth it. She is bred to a registered Alpine with nice bloodlines right now and since what Kathie said about waiting 3 generations to have her kids be just grade LM's I think I should just buy a purebred pair of LM's and go that way.

If I buy a purebred LM buck and bred her next year to him what will the kids be? I think they are registered as grade, right? But if this doe is registered as a NOA and bred to a purebred buck will the kids be registered as American?

Dana


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## Aja-Sammati (Oct 26, 2007)

When she is bred to a purebred La Mancha buck her kids will be grade La Manchas, but it takes 3 generations to get Americans. Her kids by an Alpine buck will be 50 percent grade Alpines (assuming Alpine ears), no need to register her if you don't want to.

Does the breeder want more for her papers than it will cost to buy two purebreds?? If so, either this is a fantastic show quality doe, or there is a reason the breeder doesn't want her to have her papers, and she quoted you a super high price to scare you away. Here are the rules for American LM:
*AMERICAN LAMANCHA*
Animals may be registered in this section of the herd book when they qualify under any of the following
provisions:
a. When the sire and the dam are registered as American LaManchas.
b. When one parent is an American LaMancha and the other is a purebred LaMancha.
c. Females only can be registered when the sire is an American or purebred LaMancha and the dam is a 3/4 (or higher) LaMancha in the Grade, Grade Experimental or Experimental herd book. The doe to be registered, as well as the dam and the maternal grandam, must be of correct LaMancha type (see H. Note 1).
d. Males to be registered must have gopher ears.
*RULE H NOTE 1:*
H. RULES FOR ENTRANCE INTO GRADE EXPERIMENTAL RECORD (Females Only)
Grade Experimentals are the product of mating Recorded grade does or Grade Experimental does to Purebred, American, or Experimental bucks, or may be from unknown parents in the case of Native on Performance. Females do not have to meet breed standards.
1. One parent is in the Purebred, American, or Experimental Register and the other is of unknown or unrecorded ancestry.

Modified to include Alpine ears- if LM ears then it would be as Kathie says below- Experimental, because though you would list a Alpine sire, you would have LM ears.


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

Oops. I goofed. I meant to say three generations to American La Mancha. I edited my post to reflect this. From 0% (NOA) to 75% they are grade La Manchas. when they are 7/8 LM they are Americans. The babies out of her cross with the Alpine buck will have the following on their papers if she's recorded NOA or left unpapered: Grade Experimental, 50% Alpine. If you love her conformation and plan to buy a LM buck to use next year, it would probably be worth it to buy her papers from the breeder. This way SHE would be a Purebred LM. If you're thinking of buying another purebred registered LM doe, you would likely be having to pay at least as much for her as you would for your doe's papers anyway, for a quality animal.
How the registration of kids shakes out: If you buy her papers and transfer to your name, babies out of a purebred LM buck will be registered as purebred. If you either leave her unregistered or register her NOA, doelings out of her will be 50% grade LM on paper because you're saying they conform to LM standard. Unless you buy her papers, her kids will be grades regardless of the buck you use.


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## Dana (Dec 7, 2009)

Thanks everyone. I mostly got everything said. I'm just a little slow...still trying to wrap my mind around all the jargon and generations and percentages. 

Only to complicate things: the doe that I really like and would love to have papers on is the one that came from the sale barn. And her tattooing is unreadable except the birthdate. The other LM that the breeder won't give the papers unless for a high price, is not worth getting her papers. She is very small, has horn scurs, tiny teats... This breeder is well know for having a bad reputation- the 4-H supers won't even recommend her. 

I'm not planning on getting in the show ring, it's just that I would like to be able to sell this doe's babies for a higher price because I think they are worth it. (My hunch is that this sale barn doe was a purebred)

Is there anyone who can read faded tattoos on LM tails?? Then I could find out more about her and try to contact the farm she came from and beg for her papers at (any) price. :crazy


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## luvzmybabz (Sep 15, 2008)

goatkid said:


> Oops. I goofed. I meant to say three generations to American La Mancha. I edited my post to reflect this. From 0% (NOA) to 75% they are grade La Manchas. when they are 7/8 LM they are Americans. The babies out of her cross with the Alpine buck will have the following on their papers if she's recorded NOA or left unpapered: Grade Experimental, 50% Alpine. If you love her conformation and plan to buy a LM buck to use next year, it would probably be worth it to buy her papers from the breeder. This way SHE would be a Purebred LM. If you're thinking of buying another purebred registered LM doe, you would likely be having to pay at least as much for her as you would for your doe's papers anyway, for a quality animal.
> How the registration of kids shakes out: If you buy her papers and transfer to your name, babies out of a purebred LM buck will be registered as purebred. If you either leave her unregistered or register her NOA, doelings out of her will be 50% grade LM on paper because you're saying they conform to LM standard. Unless you buy her papers, her kids will be grades regardless of the buck you use.


OK, I know you are speaking of LA MAnchas here but on the NOA and American issuesw I believe they are similair to nubians:

So I have a doeling that is from unregistered parents she will be bred to REG nubian so there is really no reason to register the doeling NOA unless I wanted to show her in experimental, because either NOA or nor registered bred to registered buck. The doeling would be 50% and they bucklings would be meat.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Yes Kasie your doe unless you want to appraise or show her in Recorded Grade classes with registered experimentals, recorded grades and recorded NOA, does not need to be recorded...because her kids will be recorded 50% on the sires pedigree anyway (he will have to be a registered American or purebred to breed her to record doelings only anyway, any bucklings born can not be recorded).

Note the recorded and registered...and how they are used. Vicki


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## Aja-Sammati (Oct 26, 2007)

Unless you want her name to show up on pedigrees in the future


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## Dana (Dec 7, 2009)

Okay, so I can register this lovely doe's babies because she is bred to an American Alpine buck. Great! 

Now, I'm still hung up on having to tattoo registered babies...ugh! I'm sure my 4-H Super will help me though this year, but I'm starting to question raising registered goats. It seems like so much paperwork and physical work. -Send in a service memo, I then wait for ADGA to send me back the papers and also a tattoo number? And then I tattoo all the babies and tattoo their birth date too and then I take a deep breath and wonder what else I need to do that I didn't know about. buy a tattoo kit. How much are those? $50 ?

I'm not usually whiny, I just didn't know what I was getting into and feel a little um, naive. :O

Okay, I'm feeling better now. I just had to vent.


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## Dana (Dec 7, 2009)

Oh yeah, and register a herd name ($15) and hope I picked a good name. I was thinking Triple Cross Hill. Any comments, suggestions?

Thanks!

Dana


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## luvzmybabz (Sep 15, 2008)

Just to remember that you only have 30 characters including spaces to name a goat and your herd name takes up 17


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## Dana (Dec 7, 2009)

Okay, I was thinking Triple Cross Hill was only 15 characters, I didn't think the spaces counted. Thanks, Kasi!

Maybe just Triple Cross?

More thoughts...?


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## Aja-Sammati (Oct 26, 2007)

I like Triple Cross!


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## Dana (Dec 7, 2009)

Thanks, Michelle! :biggrin 
My farm name is Triple Cross Farm. I like it because it signifies Jesus hanging between two thieves and His grace to forgive the one who asked. My neighbor saw my farm sign, (he is a church-goer too) and asked about the name. "It that like a double-cross but worse, like I'm gonna triple cross ya?" 
Boy, did he think it was funny. 
I just smiled and waved.

_He said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when You come in Your kingdom." And Jesus said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise." Luke 23:42-4_


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