# FF due Jan 20th



## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)

My first baby or babies are due the 20th! I felt a bump in her today as I was feeding her on the milking stand!

She looks great she is slicking up real nice.


----------



## Guest (Jan 13, 2009)

togg75 said:


> She looks great she is slicking up real nice.


Okay, you lost me. What does slicking up mean? :/

Sara


----------



## KingsCoGoatGuy (Dec 20, 2008)

Im with Sara...


----------



## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

HUH? That's a new on one me? What is *slicking up*?
Kaye


----------



## Sharpgoat (Feb 7, 2008)

Is what you are saying that she has a healthy fur coat?
Fran


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2008)

If you're 'slicking up', it means you're 'getting ready'--'looking nice'. More of a 'guy' term...often used by more, ahem, mature gentlemen.


----------



## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)

Slicking up means that her fur coat has a sheen to it that has been lacking before. The other goats do not have the appearance she does right now.
I am relating it to the "glow" that a woman gets when she is preggo.....


----------



## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

um thought you meant her udder was getting shiney


----------



## stacy adams (Oct 29, 2007)

# Informal To make neat, trim, or tidy: slicked themselves up for the camera. to make smart or fine; spruce up (usually fol. by up).
–noun 

My Gramps used to call everyone he met "Slick" 

You know, a good daily brushing will do that to their coats also.


----------



## Guest (Jan 13, 2009)

togg75 said:


> I am relating it to the "glow" that a woman gets when she is preggo.....


Nice thought, but unlikely. 

Sara


----------



## Legend Hills (May 29, 2008)

Sending doeling thoughts your way. How exciting!


----------



## mamatomany (Aug 7, 2008)

How awesome  I wish it were me...one of my daughters who is 11 said she had a dream one of our goats "D.D." gave birth to two guinea pigs  Impending birth is on everyone's mind !


----------



## doublebowgoats (Mar 6, 2008)

Well, it won't be long! My girls look nice and slick now too. I think it's the extra FAT they're carrying! hehe!


----------



## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)

mamatomany said:


> How awesome  I wish it were me...one of my daughters who is 11 said she had a dream one of our goats "D.D." gave birth to two guinea pigs  Impending birth is on everyone's mind !


That is funny right there. I have her clipped, and feet trimmed. She was off feed today a little this morning, but ate this evening ( some). It seems that the pressure from the babies kicks are causing some pain or discomfort because she will quit eating and her tail will flex. Nothing rhythmic like a contraction.....very sporadic.


----------



## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)

I know most of you will see this as trivial, but I enjoy sharing and need advice if something I am seeing is bad.

I finished the loafing lot gate today and I am working on the lights for the milking hut.

My girl due the 20th is back on her feed and getting bigger! Next up is the French Alpine I have due 27 Feb. She is showing a little bit. 

With this girl being a FF what kind of problems should I be ready for???


----------



## SherrieC (Oct 26, 2007)

with her being a ff she will have longer stages of labor since she's not been "stretched out" before. Maybe though since you are also new you won't notice the early signs of labor? I know to me it s seems like forever for those first fresheners to get down to the business of pushing, and even that takes longer then second and third fresheners.


----------



## Secondairy (Aug 12, 2008)

> With this girl being a FF what kind of problems should I be ready for???


Although this is not a problem, knowing the signs of labor is very important, like Sherrie mentioned. Our FF Togg doe finished freshening on the 12th with twin doelings at 1:30 AM. I checked on her with my neighbor in tow at 9:30, and the doe was more vocal. Normally she grumbled a bit when I went around the corner to feed the rabbits, but at that time whenever I turned my back on her she would practically scream. This is not normal behavior for her. By 10:30 she was "stargazing" - staring off into space, and was making small noises and looking at her sides a lot. She would stretch her neck and cock her head and one ear to the left or to the right, and hold the position for a few minutes before yawning and continuing to lie down and get up.










She became more posty in her rear leg set (preparing the doe with a dairy clip not only helps keep the milk clean, but also lets you see everything better). Normally this doe has very nice angulation to her thigh. I also noted with red lines, that you can see how her rump angle changed, and also in the triangular area, the kids dropped, and she became hollow under her loin. Her tail ligaments were gone for 2 days - and the tail angle changed only once she was really thinking about getting down the business. She kidded 10 minutes after taking this picture. Also, when the kids change position, it almost appears that your goat is suddenly no longer pregnant.

Problems to be prepared for would be bad presentations, stalled labor, hypocalcemia, and stuck kids. Bad presentations can be simple, such as a kid coming with both hind feet first, or in the dive position, but upside down. A good way to know what end is presenting is to bend the legs. If the leg joints all bend in the same direction, then it is a front leg. If they bend in opposite directions like a Z then it is a hind leg. A front leg and a head at the same time means going in, pushing the kid back and finding the other leg. Get the head between the legs, and continue to proceed. Sometimes two kids will present at the same time, and then it becomes a daunting task of separating them, pushing one back, and delivering the first. My Togg mentor was worried about bad presentations for me because in her 30 years of goat dairying, the Toggs gave her the most problematic kiddings, followed by the Alpines, and lastly, her LaManchas were always easy.

Since I have not yet experienced a stalled labor or hypocalcemia, I will let others with experience offer their solid advice here. I am on my way out the door anyway! The meat goat is ready for pick up

Kelly


----------



## Legend Hills (May 29, 2008)

Another way you can tell if what you are seeing is front legs versus back legs is by the way the toes are pointing. It they are pointing up, you've got front legs. If they are pointing down, you've got back legs.


----------



## Guest (Jan 16, 2009)

Legend Hills said:


> Another way you can tell if what you are seeing is front legs versus back legs is by the way the toes are pointing. It they are pointing up, you've got front legs. If they are pointing down, you've got back legs.


Kim, that isn't always true. You are not taking into consideration the position of the kid. What about an upside down kid with it's belly facing up towards the does spine? A more accurate statement would be: front legs have knees, back legs have elbows.

I also think you generally aren't 'seeing' anything... rather you are feeling.

Everyone please read through Vicki's Rearranging Kids thread in GK101 before your does start kidding!

http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,1351.0.html

Sara


----------



## Legend Hills (May 29, 2008)

Thank you Sara. Yes. That is true.


----------



## Faithful Crown Nubians (Dec 5, 2007)

Hope all goes well with your kiddings. 

Don't let the doe push forever before going in to check things out. 


My doe pushed for a good five minutes with nothing(Good straining pushings, not small unproductive), she's a doe that spits those kids out and gets it over with VERY quickly...as in the first year I had her, she had about 2inches of goo I ran to the house called my sis to let her know we are going to have kids today, was gone 5minutes (IF that) went back down, she had a buckling half way out. So that's how quick she gets things over with so I knew something was wrong...went in, she had a doeling attempting to come butt first. I found a tail! So I had to rearrange and got the back feet pulled back so she could deliver it backwards, and I decided instead of letting her push and wait and see, I'd go ahead and check to make sure the rest of the kids are presented correctly. The other two that came, was normal.  So she had 3 healthy doelings...Of course they weren't purebreds, they were kinders. :really :/ :down


PUREBRED KIDS are coming this year!


----------



## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)

Here is a picture today of her.....something in the rear end looks much different.....is she ready for the kidding pen yet? I think she will freak out when I put her in there.
She did eat after I took her picture. I can never feel the ligament thing....so I can't tell the difference.


----------



## Ravens Haven (Oct 26, 2007)

Looks like she might be getting there but her udder doesn't look strutted to me.


----------



## Legend Hills (May 29, 2008)

The tail head looks a bit raised to me. Could just be me though.


----------



## Secondairy (Aug 12, 2008)

Without knowing what this doe normally looks like, I think she is on her way. Her tail head is beginning that arc that they get before kidding, and her rump angle looks very steep at the tail head junction. Her legs are still showing good angulation, and her udder is beginning, but does not have that tight look to it yet - however, it is hard to see through her legs 










I took your pic (with your permission), re-sized it and threw some lines on it to show where the angles are. You can see the steepness of rump, and the curvature to the tail, as well as the present curvature of her hind leg. She also appears to still be carrying high - she is not yet hollow looking in the triangle under her loin. Sometimes after those kids drop, your doe stops looking 'as pregnant' as she did before. Once she starts to get posty - almost like she is standing on tip toes on her rear legs (see my doe above), then you know birth is imminent. I would say that she probably has another 2 or 3 days to go, but they sometimes sneak up on you, and always when you least expect it. But definitely keep an eye on those rear legs - that has been the best sign for us of impending birth.

Kelly


----------



## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)

Thanks to you all....very helpful.  Udder Insanity Toggs....great visual presentation.  I can "see" what I need to be looking for now. I found your drawing very helpful.

She is calm and laying down with her pen mate right now.  I have 4 does and every night they break up into pairs and sleep in the 2 kidding pens I have.  Silly I know.  They all still have free roam to all the pens and yards I have for them.  I expect her to maybe go tomorrow afternoon (convenient for me) or Monday night (worst for all the family will be gone).  Any bets she goes Monday night while their will be no one here to help in any way from morning until early evening?

I'll keep you posted.


----------



## Legend Hills (May 29, 2008)

Never knew about the posty legs sign. I'm glad I kept track of this thread.  Thank you very much Kelly.


----------



## KingsCoGoatGuy (Dec 20, 2008)

Mark, 

I hope you don't mind but I took a look at your photo bucket account. Hoping you had more then the one you posted above of her. BTW your milking hut is coming together nicely.  
To me she doesn't look as ready as she should be. Her mammary is not tight or large enough for my herd to be ready to kid. I still would keep a watch on her, after all everyones herds are different. 

If you want to PM me your email address, I would be more then happy to send you some pictures of my FF due in a couple weeks.


----------



## chewie (Jul 26, 2008)

i hope its alright to ask this here, but pix of does, FF or otherwise, within days of kidding would be great. 

i have a nub. doe that ran with the buck all summer. she looks like she is 'bottoming out' but i have no idea of dates.

the red lines is certainly a nice visual, thanks for taking that time.


----------



## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)

KingsCoGoatGuy said:


> Mark,
> 
> I hope you don't mind but I took a look at your photo bucket account. Hoping you had more then the one you posted above of her. BTW your milking hut is coming together nicely.
> To me she doesn't look as ready as she should be. Her mammary is not tight or large enough for my herd to be ready to kid. I still would keep a watch on her, after all everyones herds are different.
> ...


My e-mail is easy [email protected] E-mail anytime.


----------



## Secondairy (Aug 12, 2008)

> To me she doesn't look as ready as she should be. Her mammary is not tight or large enough for my herd to be ready to kid. I still would keep a watch on her, after all everyones herds are different


I agree with you Alex - I think she may have some time left myself, however I think it is days, not weeks. However, this is a FF, and they don't always follow the rules. Our AM Togg doe that freshened on the 12th, had the same kind of udder in his picture. She had no udder 4 weeks prior to kidding, then held out with the small one until she was 12 hours prior, then it ballooned to the shiny stage. Her teats got wider and longer, and were showing some signs of edema. By 6 hours pre-fresh, she was at full capacity, and the tail angle really got peculiar and legs went very posty.

I have a very small herd (6 does, 2 bucks, 1 wether), and this is my first year kidding out registered Americans, but all 5 kiddings that we have had thus far have shown the leg changes, and rump/tail angle changes. Until this year, we just ran the buck with the does and left the kiddings to luck - not the best way of doing things, but those were the 'watching' methods that I used before I learned about Bio-Tracking on here and had a separate buck area and date planned breedings.

Kelly


----------



## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Some times FF won't even get an udder until after freshening in fact I had one years ago that her milk didn't come in for 2 days. So hope you all have frozen colostrum


----------



## ChristinaF. (Dec 2, 2008)

I had a FF like that last year. She hadn't bagged up at all, so she caught us completely by surprise when she kidded. Three days later she got a bag. Didn't milk too much last year, but her Mom was like that as a FF. Now she gives her 8lbs a day, so I hope she will too as 2nd freshner this year.

Keep an eye on her!

Christina


----------



## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)

I tried to put her in the kidding pen today. Yeah right! She freaked out! Almost to the point of panting . She was almost to the point of working herself into a lather...I let her out. We will just have to take our chances in the o'natural. She is hollowing out in the hips I noticed tonight....


----------



## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)

She settled into the kidding pen today, for about 30 minutes she flipped out.  She is snug in her new straw.....I see the need for a barn camera now.

I think that the ligaments are two things that I thought were bones running down her back hips and they are still there.  She was due yesterday not today MLW informed me this morning at the breakfast table.  I am still waiting.

Her teats are getting bigger, but the udder is relatively the same size.
:sigh


----------



## Legend Hills (May 29, 2008)

I'm glad to hear that she is now in the kidding pen. I sure wish I had a barn camera too. Especially in the cold weather months.  Thanks for the update. Sending doeling thoughts your way.


----------



## KingsCoGoatGuy (Dec 20, 2008)

I wouldn't worry to much about the 2 day due dates, most of my does get bred at the very first signs of heat and end up doing it again the next day... I can tell you my does are all sporting some heavy kid loads!  
I don't think I will be able to go without the barn camera now. I have only had it for about 3 weeks but love checking in on them throughout the day. I am finding the need for another camera to be able to see the whole barn.  $70 for a camera isn't to bad.


----------



## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

:rofl You do realize that FF's can be SEVERAL days late on kidding? Just thought I'd rib ya' a little. 
But look at the bright side...we're suppose to have several days in the 60's! But, back in the 40's with rain on the weekend...THAT's when it will happen. :biggrin
I wouldn't start holding my breath until she passes day 153. :twisted

DH informed me tonight that an OB and Togg doe won't go to their due dates! Arrgghh..I panicked and started out to the barn...he just laughed and said they would burst first, like an overripe watermellon! Him and his sense of humor. :really I had already looked at the does several times today and didn't see anything out of order.?

I need to get a picture of one OB. She looks like a low-rider! And worse is...her previous owner has only gotten single bucks out of her?! Lord, I hope that ain't one single kid! :/
Kaye


----------



## KingsCoGoatGuy (Dec 20, 2008)

Don't let my herd hear that Kaye! I have a doe due Feburary 14 named Heart and I need her kids to have a heart on them!!! They would make the front cover of our newspaper for sure. Plus I don't want to wait anymore for these rats to be born.


----------



## Legend Hills (May 29, 2008)

Just think, you could be waiting until April like me. :sigh I'll trade due dates with ya. .....On second thought...nevermind. I still have kidding pens to build. Have fun! :lol


----------



## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)

Nope not yet, but this morning her ligaments are soft. I hope she waits until this evening. Her vulva is also open a little bit and swollen. She is not posty yet.
Comming soon!


----------



## Ravens Haven (Oct 26, 2007)

Remember all does are different some don't get posty, some do, some don't udder up first, some do. All the signs we post are from our own experience from our does. I have neighbor that had a doe that went into pushing labor and her ligs were not completely gone, never seen that before but it happened. I have does that push on the milkstand while they are eating. So I just wanted to let you know that your doe may or may not get posty...

Autumn


----------



## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)

Still nothing. She is sunken in and doesn't look preggo anymore and her ligaments are soft. Waiting, waiting.

Probably tomorrow morning because neither of us will be home.


----------



## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

I'm with you. I have a doe due yesterday. Her ligs have been about halfway there the last 24 hours. She is teasing me!


----------



## KingsCoGoatGuy (Dec 20, 2008)

Good luck Mark. Don't forget to update us  Got your towels and bottles ready? 
Its all down hill from here. Trust me soon you will be getting up at 3am and wondering where a box of twins came from in your basement! That of course doesn't come until your third year


----------



## Legend Hills (May 29, 2008)

Looking forward to the update when you say: "Kids!" :lol Have fun!


----------



## amyrob (Nov 21, 2007)

Nothing yet, Togg75--oh yeah,, you're not home! We'll check back tonight. If she doesn't have them today, no doubt it will be in the middle of the night!!! :crazy :/ :laughcry


----------



## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)

Nothing yet. I let her out of the kidding pen today to get some exercise. I hope that by letting her get out and stretch her legs she will progress and move along a little faster. This doe is driving me crazy right now.

She is very hollow looking, and her Ligs are soft. Her bag is not swelling anymore, but is pronounced. She is just moving around with out any strain. Some times she stops what she is doing and looks off into space......then starts chewing her cud like nothing is wrong. I am beginning to wonder if she had the babies and aleins came and abducted them.


----------



## shawhee (Jun 28, 2008)

I was just sure we were going to be looking at cute little baby pictures. Hang in there.

Shawna


----------



## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

UM you must have the Does Code of Honor hung where she can read it.


----------



## KingsCoGoatGuy (Dec 20, 2008)

Here print this out, and hang it just above your kidding pen, :rofl



> _The Doe's Secret Code of Honor is as old as goats themselves and is ultimately the species best kept secret. No doe shall ever kid before it's time. (It's time being determined by the following factors)
> 
> 1) No kid shall be born until total chaos has been reached by all involved. Your owners house must be a wreck, their family hungry and desperate for clean clothes and their social life nonexistent.
> 2) Midwives must reach the babbling fool status before you kid out. Bloodshot eyes, tangled hair and the inability to form a sentence means the time is getting close.
> ...


----------



## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)

It could be tonight.....she is standing alot and rubbing on everything in the pen. She goes to the feed bowl and then to the water bucket. It's like she is looking for comfort and not finding any. She seems to be in total misery, but has never made a sound. Can you see the contractions? The reason I ask is that just behind the ribs she is pulsing sort of, it could be her breathing. anyway thanks for checking in on me and any advice would help. Oh one more thing she has pooped like 4 times in the last 10 minutes very unusual.


----------



## SherrieC (Oct 26, 2007)

well it is cold, dark, and Late. perfect timing!


----------



## KingsCoGoatGuy (Dec 20, 2008)

Sounds like light labor to me. I have a doe I posted a picture of on off topic looking like she is going to kid tonight to tomorrow... Quad or triplets almost for sure! (well that or 30 pound twins! )

Good Luck.


----------



## Legend Hills (May 29, 2008)

Sounds very close. How exciting! I look forward to hearing the outcome. Keep us posted please.


----------



## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Do we have babie?? and yes you can see contractions but usually better when laying down at least for me.


----------



## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)

No babies....She looks fat as a tick again. Tonight she is eating everything in sight. She may eat the kidding stall before morning.

AAAAGGGGGHGHHHHH!!!!!


----------



## Guest (Jan 27, 2009)

Perhaps she was bred on the next cycle.

Sara


----------



## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)

That's what it is beginning to look like. I am just ready to get it over with......no I'm ready to do the breeding myself so I know when where how...etc. Next year is going to run so much smoother that this year is going right now.


----------



## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Well all I can say is hope she is indeed bred. I had one last year who looked and still looks like a barrel with legs was sure she was bred and by November had her tested and NOPE not pg. Thank goodness I didn't dry her off and milked her thru.


----------



## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)

HAHAHA......I've thought the same thing.

I've seen little bumps appear in her sides, and last night I saw what looked like a wrestling match in her tummy.  I've felt the baby, babies kick and squirm. Last night or night before I saw a foot or knee come poking out through her side(not out of the skin), then dissapear, only to come back out a couple more times. She is bred.


What concerns me most is if I have a early heat bred date and she was not really bred until 3 weeks later, then she started showing really early.  I have another FF that is due 27 Feb and she is alot farther behind than this girl was at Christmas.  How long is to long past the due date?


----------



## stacy adams (Oct 29, 2007)

I saw that you had posted and thought AHA! she kidded...! :down I hate waiting! :sigh
I had a doe a couple of years ago that I swear went 7 days over.. and had quads. :crazy


----------



## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)

Here are a couple of pictures of my preggo girl.


----------



## ChristinaF. (Dec 2, 2008)

It's kinda hard to tell from the picture, but the back of her udder doesn't seem very tight yet. Her vulva is a bit flushed though. She is a pretty doe! 

Christina


----------



## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Ah ;you have another month  just teasing.


----------



## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)

It's raining and sleet in the forecast. Her ligs are rubber, but I can still find them. I hope she goes tonight. What puzzles me is she Hollowed out on the 22 and 23 and looked very "hollow" then she fattened up and you see her today.


----------



## Secondairy (Aug 12, 2008)

Mike,

I have a gut feeling that she was bred on the next heat cycle - _or_ she has a single in there. Her udder appears to be developing, but I don't see enough edema in it to think that she is going to drop them now. I have a doe due on the 8th, who's vulva was looking like your doe's, but now it has started to soften and loose the little wrinkles around it - just like her paternal half sister did around the same time. I also feel that she still has a little too much curvature to her thigh to go really soon...but that is just my opinion 

Hopefully she relieves you of your worrying soon! I love that I actually have breeding dates for the first time, as two of the does that I have are irreplaceable. The sire of both died last winter, and the dam of my favorite one was retired from breeding with her birth as an 11th freshener. Next year will be the 'big year' for me as I am planning on getting a milking machine. The kids this year are all going to be dam raised as all of my does are FF, save for the Nubian, but shes bred to a Boer X Nubian buck. Less labor for me this year as we are renovating an apartment and have our hands and time FULL!

Kelly


----------



## Guest (Jan 27, 2009)

You need to relax. That doe could easily go another 2-3 weeks. 

She is at day 157 according to your breeding records?

Sara


----------



## Guest (Jan 27, 2009)

:yeahthat
She doesn't look ready to me... 

Christy


----------



## Theresa (Oct 26, 2007)

I have to agree, she does not look quite ready. Besides, if she has them now then she can't drive you crazy with worry of another month. :lol
Theresa


----------



## amyrob (Nov 21, 2007)

Well, you know what they say about a watched pot!

Does like this sneak 'em when we finally decide to give up the vigil!!!!!

I had a doe (FF) last year I was so excited to be home over a long weekend for. So, she was getting ready on memorial day and you know I enjoyed my company so much and we wer inside eating and gabbing (of all places on a nice summer day) and i came out to healthy trips. Boy was I ticked at myself--completely spaced it.


----------



## KingsCoGoatGuy (Dec 20, 2008)

I have to agree with everyone, she must have been bred 21 days later then you thought. Did you buy her bred or run a buck in with them? 
Remember Hearts mammary in the pictures I sent you? She isn't due until Feburary 14 and looks to have a larger mammary then yours. (Yours looks fuller in the fore though.) I will send you some more updated shots. Just on kidding watch tonight.


----------



## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

Every goat is different, but that's about how my goats looked, oh, 3-4 weeks out or so.


----------



## baileybunch (Oct 26, 2007)

There is a great ligament diagram in 101 somewhere. We found that helpful. 

Also, because of stress (and mess), we didn't move any of our girls to the kidding pen until we saw the mucous string. Using our due date we begin checking ligaments several times a day about 5 days before due date. Once the ligaments were gone, and you know when the are *gone*, we set the alarm and take turns checking...maybe every few hours to start and then hourly once behavoir changes. Once we are at the due date and beyond, ligaments gone, we check hourly to half-hourly. We usually catch them with the mucous string and move them to the kidding pen then. We ususally stay with them from that point on. Last year our 2nd freshner went over and kidded just after midnight on March 17th. We had been checking her often for like two weeks! DD insisted it would happen "today" for two weeks! Of course by the 17th we were all terribly sick and miserable! Then our second doe went just before mid-night the same day! A LONG 24 hours but done with kidding in one day! We ended up with four doelings and a buckling from the two does. No kids for us this year. 

I was getting so excited for you and figured by the end of these posts I'd see baby pics! Well, sooner or later we will see them I suppose!


----------



## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)

baileybunch said:


> There is a great ligament diagram in 101 somewhere. We found that helpful.
> 
> Also, because of stress (and mess), we didn't move any of our girls to the kidding pen until we saw the mucous string. Using our due date we begin checking ligaments several times a day about 5 days before due date. Once the ligaments were gone, and you know when the are *gone*, we set the alarm and take turns checking...maybe every few hours to start and then hourly once behavior changes. Once we are at the due date and beyond, ligaments gone, we check hourly to half-hourly. We usually catch them with the mucous string and move them to the kidding pen then. We ususally stay with them from that point on. Last year our 2nd freshener went over and kidded just after midnight on March 17th. We had been checking her often for like two weeks! DD insisted it would happen "today" for two weeks! Of course by the 17th we were all terribly sick and miserable! Then our second doe went just before mid-night the same day! A LONG 24 hours but done with kidding in one day! We ended up with four doelings and a buckling from the two does. No kids for us this year.
> 
> I was getting so excited for you and figured by the end of these posts I'd see baby pics! Well, sooner or later we will see them I suppose!


Thanks, I keep checking on her and she keeps holding out. She must have been bred on the next cycle is the only since I can make of it. I called the breeder and she sent me the pen dates for her. She also suggested that a doe's first heat may not be a fertile heat and is normal. Sometimes they go into a fertile heat 5-6 days later and then begin to cycle regularly. The babies are still moving inside of momma, which is good. I was beginning to think that I was going to have a dead kid to deal with. I checked her ligs today and they are still there, but softer.


----------



## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

> I called the breeder and she sent me the *pen dates * for her.


Then you don't have an exact breeding date. 
Even here, when I do outside breedings, the does are NOT pen bred! They are hand bred. I have boarded some for people that live a long distance away, 3 up to 8hrs. away, because I want to make sure the doe settled and didn't come back into heat in 5-10 days or in 21. IF there are two breeding dates, they get two service memos~1 for each breeding. They paid me to breed the does, they get a service memo for the dates the does are bred. NO pen breeding.
I don't even pen breed my own does.
But, with that said...2008 was the last year I will do anymore outside breedings. It's just not worth it when all your extra pens are full of other's does. Plus the time it adds to doing my own chores, and the worry of what will come in. From now on...it's buy a buckling or buy semen.
Kaye


----------



## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)

Kaye White said:


> > I called the breeder and she sent me the *pen dates * for her.
> 
> 
> Then you don't have an exact breeding date.
> ...


They were her girls that she was planning on raising for herself. I thought I was lucky to find bred does with such quality and reputation at such a reasonable price. This really works out good for me though. I'm expecting a lil buck kid and I don't want him to be alone when he is a lil baby.


----------



## stacy adams (Oct 29, 2007)

I hate to say it, but if that picture is what she looks like from the top, then you have a while to go! I have does due in March that are bigger than that! :rofl


----------



## Ravens Haven (Oct 26, 2007)

I have a doeling that is just now 11 months old and she is due Feb. 11 she weigh taped 135lb and 48" belly girth two days ago. So yeah you could possibly have a wait on your hands.


----------



## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

and I have a MM bigger than your girl who isn't due until Mar.


----------



## KingsCoGoatGuy (Dec 20, 2008)

Let us remember all does are different... but yes I have a bigger doe!


----------



## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

I have a doe who isn't due till March who is WAY bigger than her, but does can be very different. I had one who never really looked pregnant, nor did her bag get even as big as your doe's until after she kidded. Fortunately, I had a due date on her. Kathie


----------



## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)

Ravens Haven said:


> I have a doeling that is just now 11 months old and she is due Feb. 11 she weigh taped 135lb and 48" belly girth two days ago. So yeah you could possibly have a wait on your hands.


What is the correct position for the weight tape? I try to get just behind the front legs.....


----------



## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

The weight tape should be positioned just behind the wither and right behind the armpit. I had to teach Cheri how to do this right because we were getting different weights. If it isn't lined up right you will get some funny weights. Tammy


----------



## Feral Nature (Oct 26, 2007)

She doesn't look ready to me either but read my post about my first doe to kid this year and you'll see how I'm doing so far :nooo


----------



## pokyone42 (Oct 26, 2007)

I had a doe who was due last August... A tall, stately, gorgeous Boer/Alpine cross... our largest doe at just 17 months old.... a 200 pound PONY.......
Well, as it turns out, she was just FAT! lol! August came and went, and I had noticed the week before her due date, that she had not yet developed even a HINT of an udder, and so I was suspicious that she was NOT even pregnant, but just fat, due to the increased diet.. 

Ummm, YEP! She was just fat... Apparently, that last breeding never took, and then she did not come back into heat until late summer....lol... (She aborted, her first time, at about 11 months old, the Feb. before, which was very sad.) 
THIS year, she is due in about 2 weeks, and I am doing the "Happy Dance" as her udder is growing nicely, and I see babies kicking now and then! We LOVE this doe alot, but... if she did not produce kids this year, she would have to go down the road, because of the feed costs... (We try to make our girls at least earn their keep.) And so... We will be thrilled just to have a baby out of her, but twins or trips would be GREAT!... (and she is WAY BIGGER this time...)  
Also, our Tiny Carla, (also a Boer/Alpine) was due on December 26th, and never even looked SLIGHTLY pregnant... I was disappointed, as she has had twin girls two years in a row... Well, the day after Christmas, dear Carla gave us a beautiful 8 pound doeling, who we named Holly Hann-yauk!  ANd so...best of luck to you! They always keep us guessing! Have fun! I betcha your doe is enjoying all of the extra attention anyways!  Good luck with your girl!


----------



## KingsCoGoatGuy (Dec 20, 2008)

Mark, 

Any news on the doe? Heart is due in 5 days and looks pretty full now.


----------



## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)

She's getting bigger. Her ligaments are so loose right now they are flexing feel more like spaghetti than pencils. She is swollen in the read end. If she makes it past the full moon I will be very surprised. I felt the kid move some today so I'm not dealing with a dead kid yet. Thanks for asking.


----------



## Secondairy (Aug 12, 2008)

Hi again Mark!

Our other Togg doe freshened yesterday afternoon only minutes after we came home from our rabbit show with a big 11lb single doeling - so that's 3 for 3 doelings  Unfortunately she is pretty lopsided still as the kid is nursing only on one side, so I held her to the other side last night and let her empty the colostrum from that side as well.

I am crossing my fingers for your doe to kid soon and end your suffering :crazy

Kelly


----------



## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)

Her ligs are gone. Figures rain and no one will be home tomorrow. I hope she goes tonight, and not tomorrow.


----------



## KingsCoGoatGuy (Dec 20, 2008)

Good luck. You should have kids tomorrow then  I have two does due this saturary the same day as a very important meeting. Luckly I will have someone here to watch them for the 2-3 hours I will be gone.


----------



## stacy adams (Oct 29, 2007)

So, how many kids??


----------



## Patty13637 (Oct 26, 2007)

This reminds me of all of Kims threads from last year :biggrin

Patty


----------



## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

:biggrin :yeahthat


----------



## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)

Yeah I can hear you all laughing at me through teh computer screen. She is big swollen and the Ligs have come back now, very soft, and she is laying down alot. She will go soon. I promise this is my last post in this topic until she delivers the goods. :help


----------



## Guest (Feb 10, 2009)

Patty13637 said:


> This reminds me of all of Kims threads from last year :biggrin


Same here! I keep thinking... no NOT AGAIN!!! :crazy

Sara


----------



## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)

Came home early because I have been sick and bam here she goes. Today is the big day!!! Pictures to follow both mom and baby are doing fine.

How long until the placenta should drop out? been about 30 min.


----------



## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

YAY! And Congrats! Glad to hear they are doing well. Tammy


----------



## Bethany (Jan 9, 2008)

Congratulations!! That's exciting!!


----------



## KingsCoGoatGuy (Dec 20, 2008)

Congrats on the new buck kid Mark!  (Seen your post on another fourm)


----------



## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)




----------



## mill-valley (Feb 22, 2008)

Wow he is dark. Looks like a good sized baby..congrats!!


----------



## cariboujaguar (Feb 9, 2009)

Nice looking kid! haha I thought this page was the first page, I was about to say 'it looks like he might be overdue' LOL those are good pics, I'm usually too excited at that point to get a picture


----------



## KingsCoGoatGuy (Dec 20, 2008)

Isn't he a cute little toggie. Don't you love the does who get totally soaked when they give birth?


----------



## Jacquelynn (Dec 2, 2008)

Congrats! The baby is so cute. Glad everything went well for you 

Jacquelynn


----------



## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)

mill-valley said:


> Wow he is dark. Looks like a good sized baby..congrats!!


10 lbs.! for a FF....I'm glad I was there.


----------



## amyrob (Nov 21, 2007)

dance: Congrats. He looks huge! And strong. Has his coat lightened up?


----------



## Bethany (Jan 9, 2008)

Aww, he's adorable!! Congrats!!


----------



## Theresa (Oct 26, 2007)

Congrads! He is a nice looking kid.
Theresa


----------



## Guest (Feb 12, 2009)

Is it just my computer screen or is that one awfully black Togg kid?

Glad all went well for you.

Sara


----------



## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)

BlissBerry said:


> Is it just my computer screen or is that one awfully black Togg kid?
> 
> Glad all went well for you.
> 
> Sara


He is as close to black as I have ever seen. I think he will lighten up, but he is very dark. I think that his dad was dark Bluff-Top HerculesII


----------



## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

Well....Finally! Congrats on the new baby! 
He will lighten up...look at the color around his eye and muzzle. Most Toggs look black when wet, then fluff out to dark brown or medium brown. Yeh, I've panicked a few times for no reason. :lol
I've got a doeling that's one of the darkest ever born here and her dam is a fawn color.
Kaye


----------



## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)

Kaye White said:


> Well....Finally! Congrats on the new baby!
> He will lighten up...look at the color around his eye and muzzle. Most Toggs look black when wet, then fluff out to dark brown or medium brown. Yeh, I've panicked a few times for no reason. :lol
> I've got a doeling that's one of the darkest ever born here and her dam is a fawn color.
> Kaye


Thanks....I kinda like the dark Togg color. Were would sables be today if all the off kids in the Sannen lines were destroyed....besides this is my baby girls (she's 6) buckling. No way he is leaving the farm wethered or not. My lil girl would hate daddy for ever.
Kaye I'm sending you an e-mail later. Sondra's post didn't offend me.

I am concerned more that their rumps tend to be higher than their front end....like the heads and tails are on the wrong ends.


----------



## Kaye White (Oct 25, 2007)

:rofl You just didn't pull on the front legs hard enough to get him here! 
My new OB buckling is walking WAY uphill...but I did increase the front leg length by at least two inches getting him into this world!
(just kidding...he's built right.  )

Kaye


----------



## ecftoggs (Oct 26, 2007)

togg75 said:


> I am concerned more that their rumps tend to be higher than their front end....like the heads and tails are on the wrong ends.


Mark,
Not on this buckling in your pictures I can tell by his rear leg angulation that he will be just fine. Newborn tend to hunch up you need to judge them on the move to best see if they are uphill or not. Glad you had a good day!
Tim


----------



## Secondairy (Aug 12, 2008)

Congrats Mark! Glad to see your little buckling on the outside 

All of our Toggs this year have been born very dark brown like yours, almost like Black Coffee. The twins from 2 weeks ago have now achieved a nice medium/med. dark brown color, and the new doeling born on Sunday looks an awful lot like your buckling...short little blocky head like that too as of yet. Every day she seems to get longer in the muzzle though. She was near black at birth, these pics are from about an hour after her birth, but the flash lightened the color considerably. I just love how long in body this doe is.



















Hey - We can watch our closely born kids grow together  Ours weighed 11lbs before colostrum, and at 6 hours post birth she weighed 12lbs. She is 3 days old now and is 17.5lbs. I was hoping to name her something like a flower since her mother is Belladonna, and WEED is starting to come to mind  Have you and your daughter decided on a name for your little man?

Again, congrats on your first born! I am telling you this now, that goat will probably end up being the spoiled rotten little goatie of the bunch! Our one buck Ben, who is going to be wethered soon, is an absolute people pleaser. He loves everyone, and is even gentle during the rut. I am almost hoping for a buckling from one of my other does so that I will be able to have a fall back guy in the event that something happens to my buck.

Kelly


----------



## togg75 (Nov 30, 2008)

Udder Insanity Toggs said:


> Hey - We can watch our closely born kids grow together  Ours weighed 11lbs before colostrum, and at 6 hours post birth she weighed 12lbs. She is 3 days old now and is 17.5lbs. I was hoping to name her something like a flower since her mother is Belladonna, and WEED is starting to come to mind  Have you and your daughter decided on a name for your little man?


Oh yeah she has already named him....she didn't even get her hands on him when she said "Hello lil Jonas"....
Jonas it is! I really have no other choice. Can she hurt the lil guy? She wants to pet and play with him non stop.....


----------



## shawhee (Jun 28, 2008)

Oh what a cutie!!! So glad he got here and I bet you are relieved. I am still waiting on 6 does.

Shawna


----------



## mamatomany (Aug 7, 2008)

Congrats....he is a beautiful boy...love the color!


----------



## Legend Hills (May 29, 2008)

Patty13637 said:


> This reminds me of all of Kims threads from last year :biggrin
> 
> Patty


Yup. Reminds me of my threads too. :rofl "She's in labor. No shes not. Maybe she is. Nope. Is she? Maybe. Yup. Nope. Yup. Nope. Awwwww." :crazy

Congrats! It finally happened and so very awesome! Beautiful too! Love the dark color. And Jonas is a very fine name. dance:


----------



## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Congratulations now you can ease your mind of wondering


----------



## Ravens Haven (Oct 26, 2007)

Udder Insanity Toggs said:


> Hey - We can watch our closely born kids grow together  Ours weighed 11lbs before colostrum, and at 6 hours post birth she weighed 12lbs. She is 3 days old now and is 17.5lbs. I was hoping to name her something like a flower since her mother is Belladonna, and WEED is starting to come to mind  Have you and your daughter decided on a name for your little man?
> 
> Kelly


Name her "Kudzu" b/c it grows so fast.

Autumn


----------

