# Family member is a USDA inspector and is disgusted by my milk....



## kerryandjennie (May 27, 2011)

I am fairly new to having goat milk around and currently, I am only feeding the milk to my baby wethers, so my house hasn't had any to drink yet. With that being said, I plan on keeping it raw for the health benefits, that is basically the reason I feel the "need" to go to the "trouble" of keeping a goat as opposed to just Buying organic milk from the store. I want to know how it was handled and how the animal's health is. I'm still learning everything about handeling milk. My "problem", though, is that my mother-in-law is a USDA inspector and deems my goat milk "nasty". As I stated before I haven't fed any of it to my family, yet, but I will. I'm concerned about any precautions I need to put in place to defend myself (legally) if that becomes necessary. Or, by matter of person opinion, should I just go ahead and pasturize the whole bit? (ie: sell the goats)


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## H Diamond Farms (Jun 3, 2011)

If you have clean milking and handling practices, you have nothing to worry about. It's not illegal for you to feed raw milk to your family (yet , lol). Make it your mission to educate your MIL on the benefits of raw milk. If you are concerned about legal issues, consider joining the farm to consumer legal defense fund. They have a bunch of good resources, including a map by state showing what is legal in that state.


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## kerryandjennie (May 27, 2011)

Thank you for that information, i didn't know about that!


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## adillenal (Feb 6, 2009)

Well, I am just very liberal I guess or old. But is your MIL inspecting your dairy?? If not, it is really none of her business what you do unless you are living with her. I see nothing to defend. Your life, your family, your choices.


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## dragonlair (Mar 24, 2009)

She is just showing her ignorance and the brainwashing done by the government. I'd try to educate her, but if that doesn't work, ignore her.

I've been drinking raw milk, 98% goat milk (the 2% was when we had a cow dairy) for the past 30 years. I raised my 4 sons on it. They were never sick when they were younger even when all the other kids at school were. I never get sick, I can't remember when I had my last cold or the flu. If I don't drink raw goat milk, my rheumatoid arthritis acts up and is very painful. I even raised one of my sons on raw goat milk form the day he came home from the hospital. He was the only 1 that slept all night from the day he came home from the hospital at 3 days, never had gas issues and has perfect teeth. He is also 6'4" where as the other 3 are 5'10, 5'7" and 5'6". I would think that if raw milk was bad for you we would all be dead by now.


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## linuxboy (Oct 26, 2009)

There are two basic approaches to risk mitigation for the consumption of food:

1) Adopt a systems-based approach where threat vectors are reduced through good controls and practices without adopting the modern germ theory perspective.
2) Adopt a germ-theory perspective that seeks to eliminate risk vectors by killing all possible pathogens.

Your MIL is following the second perspective, which dominates current science simply because the first perspective has not been researched enough and there are few repeatable one-size-fits-all solutions when one is dealing with complex systems.

I would challenge your MIL to prove that your goat milk is nasty. Not some theoretical foundation, but proof that your milk specifically is somehow harmful. Because even with pasteurization, it is not some panacea that eliminates all risk. Properly handled, the risk vectors for both can be made to be statistically similar in terms of public health considerations.


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## LSP Farm (Dec 4, 2011)

Your not selling it to the general public and your not forcing your mil to drink it. I would cut off all info about it to her. Not even bring up the subject of milk around her. If its not her household its none of her business.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

If I could offer you a little bit of advice. Let your husband handle his family, you handle your family. It is his mother. You should be nothing but respectful of her, and really the only input into your life that is important is your husbands. Besides, it makes it nice to simply say....well your son said this an your son said that so take it up with your son  It also makes men have to stand up to their mothers if you won't do it anymore. It in the end is nothing but a huge waste of time.


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## Bernice (Apr 2, 2009)

> If I could offer you a little bit of advice. Let your husband handle his family, you handle your family. It is his mother. You should be nothing but respectful of her, and really the only input into your life that is important is your husbands. Besides, it makes it nice to simply say....well your son said this an your son said that so take it up with your son Smiley It also makes men have to stand up to their mothers if you won't do it anymore. It in the end is nothing but a huge waste of time.


Where's the like button? :biggrin

That's a sticky situation and I'll say this, it's going to be a, "tough sell" for you to directly try to change her mind, let your husband work on her. To do otherwise would be to inflame! eepwall


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## kerryandjennie (May 27, 2011)

I suppose I was over-reacting. She lives 4+ hours away (there is a REASON for that! LOL) so I only have to deal with her when she comes up for a visit. I am concerned about her making problems for me in the future. I've read through websites and studied up on my state's law and I will be keeping goats for a very long time (maybe even out of spite! LOL) !!! I can't tell y'all (yes, I'm southern) how much this thread has helped boost my confidence. Thank you so much!


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

I like what most have said so far. But a question for you: If you currently don't drink your milk, then how can your MIL say it is nasty? Of course, she is just believing what she has been taught by the gov't. I really like Pav's idea. Have her PROVE IT!

Vicki is, of course, is right....politically correct. However family dynamics are what they are and maybe your husband won't stand up to her. Or maybe if you never bring it up and just feed it to your family your MIL will continue to hound you because she is also by-passing her son. It could be an ongoing argument that never ends. Whatever!

As long as you are not selling it, you have the right to drink the milk from your own animals. FTCDL is a great resource. Also check out www.realmilk.com. They have some brochures you can print out to at least give to your husband if you choose to let him fight the battle.

Ensure your goats are in good health, as someone else said, practice good hygiene in your milk and storage practices, and you'll have no problem.

And if you really want to "get her goat", save one of your store-bought milk containers (plastic), put in your goat milk and see if she notices the difference when she comes to visit you.

Good luck to you.


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## adillenal (Feb 6, 2009)

Two of my old time friends that also raise goats are USDA inspectors so not all USDA inspectors are anti-goat. Now I have no idea if they drink their own goat milk and if it is raw or not. 
My mother would not touch goat milk but you could not keep her out of the goat milk ice cream. Everybody is different about their preferences.


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## H Diamond Farms (Jun 3, 2011)

adillenal said:


> My mother would not touch goat milk but you could not keep her out of the goat milk ice cream. Everybody is different about their preferences.


That's exactly how my husband is! I can't get him to drink it for anything, but my stars lookout if you make ice cream with it! He says it's better with goat milk than cow milk, lol. I'll take the small victories. =P


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

Isn't some kind of law that your mother and mother-in-law must tind something subpar about your household management? My mom was raised on a farm, and she likes store eggs and store skim-milk.  Just refuse to discuss. Buy her some cheapo milk when she comes to visit.


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## kerryandjennie (May 27, 2011)

:yeahthat :rofl


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## sarafina (Dec 26, 2009)

Yeah, family dynamics are always touchy!

My ex couldn't stand up to his parents so he always made me out to be the "heavy"...... "my wife doesn't like *fill in the blank* or my wife won't *xyz*". I didn't care because they were afraid of me and wouldn't say a word to me :rofl


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## peregrine (Dec 9, 2008)

I wouldn't let any USDA inspector convince me I shouldnt drink raw milk. However, I did have a doeling die of listeria on my farm, so I pastuerize my milk as a precaution now. I was drinking it raw, but after watching that baby die, raising the temp to 160 degrees didnt seem like such a big deal. It takes only an extra few minutes and I dont have to worry about any chances. Doesnt affect the flavor of the milk one bit. I won't drink raw anymore because of the hidden nature of listeria.


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## Grumpy Old Buck (Feb 5, 2011)

Well... until the "glass house" of the USDA is made of steel (let's not forget that USDA meat was in the Jack in the Box burgers some years back, that led to Ecoli deaths), I wouldn't give anyone else's thoughts a second glance.


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

Based on what does she think it's 'nasty', anyway? If your milking process and milk handling are clean and efficient, impress her by taking a sample of your raw milk and let it get tested. If it's good, she might be impressed.

My mother in law thinks I'm a total nut that I have all those goats and, what's worse, after my husband's been in the dairy business for over 31 years (he started 'working' for a dairy farmer when he was 7!) she still thinks it's a mistake and that he should have been a doctor.... Okayyyyyyy, sure! :/ I used to get all upset about her, but now I just let it all slide off my shoulders.


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## kerryandjennie (May 27, 2011)

She just doesn't like the fact that our family plans to consume food that has not been produced under licenced facilities. Not only does this apply to my milk, but my meat rabbits and any extra roosters that we have.  She really flipped her wig when I mentioned that I don't wash my eggs with disinfectant detergent and don't wash them AT ALL! It is all the government brainwashing classes that she is required to attend for weeks each year that does it to her.


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## mamatomany (Aug 7, 2008)

Jennie, have your milk tested..send it to Clemson..I test my milk regularly as I feed to my family. Altho I am a stikler about milk handling practices...the same every single time, conditions are kept the same, never milk without gloves on, yadadayada. You have lots of folks around you who are doing things illegally...selling their milk and making cheese and selling it. Stay out of that practice, test your milk, nail your milking routine down, etc. Be able to have a well rehearsed reason for your drinking raw milk and feeding said to your family.


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## feistymomma (May 20, 2009)

I ran into similar situations when my son was a baby. He couldn't handle formula, and I was unable to nurse him myself due to illness. So, I did some research and started giving him goats milk from my goats (I did pasturize it at the time because he was only 4 months old). I was told by many people that I was going to make him grow up unhealthy and the it was unsafe to give my child milk from "farm" goats....yep that is what they called them. Not sure what other kind of goats there are, but anyways, he is now a 4 foot tall just turned 4 year old who can read and write. I would say the goat milk did him good! Don't let people push you around when it comes to your family and your children. You know what is best, not those looking in. Do what you know is right and thumb your nose at everyone else! Happy milking


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## smithurmonds (Jan 20, 2011)

What Vicki said is good advice indeed! I'd be pretty touchy if someone called my milk nasty. Having it tested is a great idea if it would make you feel better equipped to defend it, or even for your own peace of mind. But generally I don't try to convince people who don't want to try my milk. I don't feel like I need to justify my decision to consume our milk.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

Alisa did you have cultures done to know that your animal died of listeria? 
There are other things that 'act' like listeria in kids. You would have to have lab tests to say that for sure. 
I have stood next to a vet telling me an acidic doe was dying of listeria. So hopefully you had more than just opinion on that diagnosis. Disorders that manifest as metabolic disease are difficult to diagnose and often produce similar symptoms so when a serious zoonotic life changing bacteria is suspected I would be asking for proof.

Jennie~I went thru this with my inlaws. She's brainwashed. I live next door to a Grade A dairy that would make you gag and know of others that need to be closed NOW. So to say a license OR an inspector indicates anything is junk and bunk. I know of squalor like 3rd world countries -mud and poor housing-eating off the ground-children doing the milking etc...but with a lax inspector what good is the system? There is no uniformity so in the end they just cook the heck out of the stuff and call it safe. The things these facilities can sell as food for the American public would not be fed to my dogs and the way they can treat animals would get them shot if I had my way :biggrin. 
She has to uphold laws so she has to believe in them. So she does believe in them even if there is not one bit of sense to it. It's like the black shirts and Hitler youth-damaged. She is hopeless so don't waste your time trying to convert her!
But do decide how much you want to let her affect your decisions and then draw a line.

Settle it in your own mind and don't let her try to make her damage part of yours  
Don't you love all of us getting you all fixed up so easily :rofl
Lee


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

feistymomma said:


> I was told by many people that I was going to make him grow up unhealthy and the it was unsafe to give my child milk from "farm" goats....yep that is what they called them. Not sure what other kind of goats there are, but anyways, he is now a 4 foot tall just turned 4 year old who can read and write.


Oh, it's milk from FARM goats!!! :really Yeah, that IS disgusting!! :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl


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## feistymomma (May 20, 2009)

Trysta said:


> feistymomma said:
> 
> 
> > I was told by many people that I was going to make him grow up unhealthy and the it was unsafe to give my child milk from "farm" goats....yep that is what they called them. Not sure what other kind of goats there are, but anyways, he is now a 4 foot tall just turned 4 year old who can read and write.
> ...


I know right? I guess I should have invested in milk from one of those New York City goats that live in a loft and eats takeout instead of hay and grain!


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## racyford (Sep 10, 2008)

I love this forum... I think if feeds my appropriate sense of sarcasm well. ROFLOL

Lee, kudos on the comments. I just finished a book about the youth in Germany in WW2, so I see what you're driving at. 

Related to the "farm" goat statement: My niece told me one time "OH! I know why your eggs are blue! You get them from REAL chickens!" She was 6.


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## adillenal (Feb 6, 2009)

I raised my only child on raw goat milk with his pediatrician's blessing. We just had to add iron I believe. Anyway, I selected one goat and had her tested for every known disease by the local vet and after she passed everything, she was the goat we used to feed DS. He had no allergies, was rarely sick, and is exceptionally smart. Now his parents aren't exceptionally smart so I can only surmise that it was from the goat milk. So goat milk builds brain cells?
So, if there are doubts, test and then drink.


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## Horsehair Braider (Mar 11, 2011)

In my very limited experience, the MIL disapproves no matter WHAT you do. You can bet you are raising your children wrong, are going to the wrong place for vacation, and by the way don't clean your house right. Just can't seem to make 'em happy! 

In your case she happens to be a USDA inspector, but I feel confident that even if you had no farm animals, she would find something to pick on you about. 

Heck, even my own MOTHER does this. She does not really care about goats at all, but as soon as I picked my herd name for ADGA she suddenly had an opinion of what it should be and guess what, I picked the WRONG ONE. :crazy


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## kerryandjennie (May 27, 2011)

Oh, you're so right about that! NOTHING I can do is right, we homeschool our kids, we had a baby, we go to church, I try to respect my husband as the head of the family.... she doesn't even like me doing that! :rofl Whew, good thing I don't give a lick about her twisted opinion! :crazy I'm sure glad I'm not the only one who has a disapproving mil! I was just concerned that she may be able to do something legally to prevent me from giving my own children the milk. 

Geez.... "farm goats"! ROFL! Oh, as opposed to grocery store goats where the milk just magically appears in cans, right? :crazy2

Just smile and nod, smile and nod. :sigh


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## MayLOC (Oct 26, 2007)

Personally I am wondering why she needs to know all these details? Instead of going head to head with her ... why not just do what you wish is best for your family and leave it as unknown as possible to her. And if she does ask questions let you husband give the answers. Of course you and your husband will have to agree on what you are doing beforehand :lol. You just have to ask yourself ... is there a use in trying to convince her? Is she likely to change her mind and agree with you? Or is it simply better to do for your family as you and your husband decide and not advertise it to her.


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## goatkid (Oct 26, 2007)

I work with people who think goat milk and meat are nasty. Some probably wouldn't eat any home raised meat or wild game. I figure that's their loss. I can't imagine why people would prefer meat and milk from animals treated with antibiotics and hormones and food that's so over processed there are few nutrients left.These same folks will eat GMO food, high fructose corn syrup, nutrasweet and other yuckys.
It's too bad your mil has been brainwashed by the system. Mine grew up during the depression when people had to raise alot of their food. She loves our cheese. I'd just go ahead and eat what you raise. When your mil visits, feed her store bought milk and meat.


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## racyford (Sep 10, 2008)

Jenny, I am not sure but I think our MILs might be related! :biggrin


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

:yeahthat and don't they remember what it was like having a MIL? 

Of course mine says their relationship was perfect. Maybe. I have raw vegan to deal with, imagine that with our goats so central to our life and diets, and I married an only child. From him I guess I'm learning to just change the subject and not talk about certain things. Gives me a stomache. And we go to Krispy Kreme sometimes after leaving "dinner" at their house. I have to say things have gotten a little better over the years, maybe "don't ask, don't tell" works for this?

another huge :yeahthat to Lee's post!

and the others who say variations on "its your family" and just stay out of that conversation as much as possible with her, and make sure your DH is on the same page with you. Maybe Secret Santa send her Joel Salatin's book "Everything I Want To Do Is Illegal"? :lol


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## kerryandjennie (May 27, 2011)

Great Idea, Lacia!  She'd never suspect the secret santa thing was from me, either, 'cause that is another thing I do (don't do) with our kids that she disapproves of!


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

> and don't they remember what it was like having a MIL?
> Of course mine says their relationship was perfect.


Selective memory, probably. I know that when my kids were younger, and my (pre-diagnosis) autistic son would have a meltdown, she would say things like, "I don't know where he gets that from. His _father_ never had temper tantrums!" I would respond, "What on earth do you mean? He has temper tantrums even now!" (And it's true.)


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## NorthOf49 (Feb 8, 2011)

Oh, I think there are decent MILs. Mine is awesome. I'm sure she disapproves of some things but she's very good at keeping all opinions to herself. The other side is that my issue is my husband is leery of my mother so I have to listen to him get all huffy and complain about her when she's not around. Now you want to see my feathers ruffled start insulting my mother. Gah.


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## kerryandjennie (May 27, 2011)

Christine, up until about two years ago, I could've said the exact same thing. We had a great relationship, then all of a sudden I went from "can't do anything wrong" to "how do you even get yourself out of bed in the morning?" LOL We were really good friends - the problems started when I started getting wise (I know... it took a long time) about food safety and my husband and I deciding that we didnt' want to ingest artificial ingredients nor did we want our food washed with bleach. :/ Just be careful, it can all change on a dime!


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## MayLOC (Oct 26, 2007)

what comes to my mind is... possibly your MIL is seeing your food consumption decisions as a personal attack against her, seeing as it is so connected to her profession. Especially if she is a die-hard believer in what she does. You know what I mean? 

Several years ago one of my sons tested allergic to pork. We rarely ate it anyhow and when we did I was getting sick also, so as a family we decided to be a pork free house. Well my mom was raising pigs at that time- small scale. When she tried to give us some fresh butchered pork I then explained the situation. She took it very very personally. It made no sense to me, but it made her very angry. She just took it as a personal knock against her and she felt like I was saying... our beef is healthier than your pork. Sometimes people take things personally and the rest of us don't really understand why. 

Since you said you were closer until you began your quest for more healthy and wholesome food, I would really suspect the same with your MIL; she is taking it as a personal knock.


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

We have this trouble with alot of things. Good parents raise you to be independent and think for yourself. They never imagine that will mean your choices won't mirror (and possibly validate) theirs. . I guess it just gives us a chance to practice grace and diplomacy. I'd like to think I'm getting better at it.


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## kerryandjennie (May 27, 2011)

:yeahthat
Ohhh, Angie, that is a GREAT facebook quote! I credited it with "A. Mercer" dance:


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## swgoats (May 21, 2010)

That's fine, glad it was helpful.


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

> Several years ago one of my sons tested allergic to pork. We rarely ate it anyhow and when we did I was getting sick also, so as a family we decided to be a pork free house. Well my mom was raising pigs at that time- small scale. When she tried to give us some fresh butchered pork I then explained the situation. She took it very very personally.


Stuff like that makes absolutely no sense to me, at all. I mean, I can kind of understand some things (for example, my sister has thought that because I homeschool, I look down on her because she sends her kids to public school, even though I've never said anything of the sort, or even thought it), but it's a medically documented allergy, for goodness sakes!


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## MayLOC (Oct 26, 2007)

I know and agree. We went through the same thing when our kids tested allergic to cow milk. She tried to give us raw cow milk as she was sure we must have meant simply allergic to store bought cow milk. Took it all very very personal. She had a small herd of dairy cows and was not excited when we got back into dairy goats.

I have just come to conclude that some get their feet stepped on easier than others. And it is way easier to aviod as much as can be avoided -confrontational-wise.


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

As someone I know once said, "Some people just have big toes."


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

:rofl that one took me a minute to get!


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## Trysta (Apr 5, 2011)

kerryandjennie said:


> - the problems started when I started getting wise (I know... it took a long time) about food safety and my husband and I deciding that we didnt' want to ingest artificial ingredients nor did we want our food washed with bleach. :/ Just be careful, it can all change on a dime!


I don't know what you mean exactly. I don't want my 'food' washed with bleach either, but my chlorine based dairy detergent is my best friend for cleaning my milk pails, hoses and bulktank. I don't think you can have clean milk if you don't use something disinfecting like that, so do test your milk if you use it for your family. I can get a milkpail beautiful and shiny with a reused washcloth with cold water and some dishwashing soap, but the germs will be playing tag all over it, even if I don't see them! Don't take unnecessary risks with your family!


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

Lacia, me too, the first time I heard it.

Marion, she means that they wash eggs (and probably other things, but eggs for sure) with bleach, but to my mind, even yuckier, is that they treat some "ground beef" with ammonia (kills e. coli). Yes, they treat the beef itself, not the equipment on which they process the beef.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/31/us/31meat.html?pagewanted=all

http://themoderatevoice.com/57774/safety-of-ammonia-treated-ground-beef-questioned/


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## kerryandjennie (May 27, 2011)

Yes, Stacy, that is what I was saying. I use Dairy soap to wash all my equipment with, as well, but I don't use it in my milk and I don't want to use it on my food (eggs, meat, etc).  I don't even use disposable diapers on my little one because I don't want to expose her to the chloriene (sp) next to her skin.


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## SALTCREEK_Nubians_Linda (Nov 13, 2007)

If I were a USDA inspector, I'd probably be a vegetarian...... They KNOW how that meat gets treated and still can pass inspection. But I digress.....


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## LLB101 (Sep 29, 2009)

LOL, *really* good point! Grocery store gross meat is what originally got me to try being vegetarian when I moved into the city from the farm.


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## SALTCREEK_Nubians_Linda (Nov 13, 2007)

I raise beef. I am not a vegetarian. Too bad they have to take my beautiful product and turn part of it into crap....or sell part of it as human food that should not be human food. I do vow to grind my own meat from now on though.


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