# HYPERCALCEMIA-need info (UPDATED)



## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

We know alot about hypocalcemia and what to do for it. This is NOT about hypocalcemia.

Its about Hypercalcemia, I need to know as much about it as possible. One of our does has hypercalcemia. I have already started BoSe, A & D, cut her calcium intake down to 1:1, and copper bolused. So far this is all the information I can dig up on it. If you look in Goat Medicine they have it under Bent Leg....NOT bowed leg. Bowed leg is from too much protein. Bent Leg has also been known as spaghetti leg. In Nutrient Requirements of Small Ruminents it talks about the chemical process of how calcium is absorbed but does not help in anyway of treatent of physiological symptoms. 
http://books.google.com/books?id=1F...ge&q=hypercalcemia in small ruminants&f=false
I am still searching the internet, but want to see if there is any other info or personal experience with hypercalcemia.
Tam


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

*Re: HYPERCALCEMIA-need info*

Tammy,

all I know is related to humans. Hubby had hypercalcemia and ended up in the hospital. They started him on IV right away to flush out and dilute the condensation in his kidneys/liver. He was mostly on continuous IV until his levels were normal. This was not caused by nutrient intake but by imbalance due to malfunction.

Not sure if this helps any but ringers would not hurt.

Jana


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

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I don't know that ringers would help. She isn't dehydrated and gets plenty of water. Eats her minerals like crazy. But they all do.
I did notice that they mentioned hormonal, and her problems started after a month of being bred, so that is something to take into consideration. I am stocked on CMPK and ringers should this swerve into hypocalcemia after kidding. She is developing her udder just fine and moving around well, not inactive at all. 
Tam


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## Ashley (Oct 25, 2007)

*Re: HYPERCALCEMIA-need info*

It would make sense to dilute with other minerals that work with it, particularly phosphorus. But would definitely wonder what the cause is.


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## Laverne (Apr 4, 2010)

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Is she having bent leg? 
Could hyperparathyroid be at the root of it in goats? http://parathyroid.com/diagnosis.htm
In humans it's always a tumor so says this article.
My mom has a parathyroid problem, probably a tumor but is just avoiding calcium supplements so far as per doctors instructions.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

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It is caused in goats, believe it or not, * from too much phosphorous*. Yes is called Hyperparathyroidism (sp?), but it also can be cause from the same benign tumors on parathyroids as humans, horses, dogs and pigs. Yes I know, that sounds like hypocalcemia, its not. I cannot relay in blue collar terms how all of that translates understandably, other than it causes for more calcium stored in the blood and pulls it from the bones and joints as well.

In our want to have healthy animals we went from one spectrum--not enough groceries, to the other--too much. It is easy to do thinking that you are doing the best for your animals. BUT--it comes back to bite cha also. There is a very fine line to supplemental feeding. Know how Tracy is always saying why she does not feed feed to her kids, this is why. And so I have created a problem, I am fessing to creating the problem, and now I am trying to fix the problem. I am not giving up or tossing out MY problem and I really don't need grumped at about this, I need info.
Tam


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

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Well I am gonna grump at you! :biggrin
Oh phooie there you go hitting yourself on the head for no reason. 
All your young does would be problematic if it was your feeding.
It's a personal problem. More people feed kids grain than do not feed kids grain so I am sorry to say that is not a cure all in this problem. And the line ain't that fine! It is not hard to raise good sturdy young goats but sometimes they have personal issues that you cannot avoid manifesting.I have seen issues with people pushing to breed yearlings but not herd wide- some goats can do it some cannot.

She- one goat- has a problem distributing her mineral uptake. You will have to manage her differently. It is not your general management. Management issues are seen herd wide starting with the underdogs and stressed animals but going thru the whole herd in some recognizable form.

Did you get a blood calcium level? 
If this started with a foot issue and progressed it could simply be advanced chronic founder. 
So there....grumpgrumpgrump

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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

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Since you have also recently had bone fractures you still need to be looking at copper levels.
Perhaps this is more an example of copper problems than calcium.

From Merck....

Copper deficiency may cause locomotor difficulties in goats in 2 distinct ways. Abnormal bone growth with increased bone fragility can predispose to fractures of long bones.

I also just read that the only way to diagnose Hypercalcemia as culprit is to have bone platelet analysis done.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

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"I also just read that the only way to diagnose Hypercalcemia as culprit is to have bone platelet analysis done."
Hmm, not happening unless there is a broken bone.
Brannies leg was from snapping it in a metal staircase, I was there and saw what happened.

I can understand the copper, we have severe issues with copper. When I bolused her it was at 100 days in (Jan 19), had done bolusing pre-breeding in September with the idea at 100 days in to redo bolusing. It is getting done/has been done on all the does at 100 days in. I haven't seen much difference until two days after administering A&D. Then there is some improvement. 
Tam


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## wheytogosaanens (Oct 26, 2007)

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I think you also have to take into account the genetics on this particular doe. Tall, big goats are in this line. Lots and lots of milk in this line. She could have big twins or triplets in there as well, which are a drain on her system.

My Saanens start a growth spurt after they are bred. If she was already growing too fast (groceries) and then had a growth spurt as well - well, too much demand on her body at the time.

I would suggest that you contact Pat Hendrickson directly and see what else she can tell you (they were just discussing "Spaghetti Legs" on Saanen talk). She is very smart and is also one of our directors. Then tell us what else you have learned.

And no point in beating yourself up - we all make mistakes. Doing better is our goal after that. Chin up and all that.


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## Tracy in Idaho (Oct 26, 2007)

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Which doe is this Tammy? And yes -- this is exactly what I had happen the years that I fed grain to kids.

The folks back east don't understand this because they don't get the kind of alfalfa we have here -- everything is different. I don't know that I have ever heard of eastern herds having this problem.

I don't claim to be a rocket scientist -- but I know what causes it, I know how to prevent it, and I know that once it starts - it is not fixable. That said, I never kept only kept those does a few months past freshening....I shipped them all to the dairy. But their legs were deformed enough that I didn't think we would ever see enough improvement to justify keeping them.

Sorry


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

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I certainly can try to get ahold of Pat, Thank you Camille and for that wonderful info I got from you as well.

Tracy, its Loralei I have been told that this can take up to a year or more. Where Linds and I love Loralei so much we are willing to take the time necessary since we goofed her up in the first. Her appraisal will not be what it should, I am sorry Tracy. 
Linds asked me why it didn't effect the others and for a long time I couldn't give her a real answer until we did some more research. Tallis receives buck management, so no calf manna, just meat goat once a day and grass/alfalfa---been that way from the get go. The other does that came with Loralei have much different lineage than she, she is a Blackout x Ice daughter. You take a large milky doe and breed to another animal (if anyone reads all of the breeders brochures be sure to read on Redwood Hills brochure about her feelings on feeding her kids feed!) which is large and very milky in lineage and you get mineral needy animals that NEED to grow slower.

I will get a pic so everyone is clear on bent leg/spaghetti leg. There is a directional difference  Bowed legs go out, bent legs are knock kneed/go in.
Tam


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## Tracy in Idaho (Oct 26, 2007)

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I hate to be the bearer of bad news -- but just because it hasn't affected the others yet -- doesn't mean it won't  Oftentimes, it shows up the last 2-4 weeks before kidding. 
There was NEVER a lineage correlation in my herd....different dams, different sires, different milking lines.....it was fairly random.

My standard protocol now is to start FFs on grain about 2 weeks before their due date.

Can you give me a link to the Redwood Hills info on feeding? I can't find it?

I'm sure sorry to hear about her, she was a really nice kid


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

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We are hoping that the necessary changes in fed management happened in time.
Its either Redwood or Tempo Aquila that has it on their refund page. I am looking cause I know I read it whilst drool shopping.

Here is a front shot: Notice the crossed legs. Look at her hooves, since breeding, her outer hoof half has grown faster than her inner hoof half only on the front hooves.









Here is a back shot, you can see where her fetlocks are weakened, causing the knees to roll in and the shoulders to roll out.









Tam


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

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Are you completely sure this has no relation to copper?

Looks exactly like the photo on Joyce's website.

http://www.saanendoah.com/copper1.html

If you are feeding calf manna or a soy based protein it is notorious for blocking both calcium and copper uptake.
This is one reason dairy stock does not last as long as home stock.

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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

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Sure does look the same. 
And its the same as the Bentleg description in Goat Medicine.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

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I would so call phooy on this diagnosis, from the first post, and now especially with the photos in the last posts. Wasn't it Diane that had similar photos like this also that were completely fixed by copper bolusing?

You live in the very area Joyce, saanendoah.com did the studies on the goats, ask her, she is on Face Book and is very very nice! You don't have Tracy's hay, and until you do you really can't mirror her management. And is your tweaking of your selenium with the oral application harming your calicum and copper uptake? Vicki


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

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Does that black & white doe in the background seems to have some legs issues also?


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

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I do not give oral selenium. I use BoSe sub-q. I do not give A & D oral, I give it sub-q. The only thing I give supplementally that is oral...is probios and Vit E oil. The loose minerals are not enough in selenium or copper, this I already know. I have already copper bolused her (not more than three weeks ago), there is nothing more I can do than supplement with BoSe and A&D as suggested until more time has elapsed.
Tam

Janie, 
That is Branwyn. She broke her leg at four months old and that is how her leg is.
We have to bolus three to four times, our adults get a full bolus too, and are still working on how much for young FF's.
None of the others have any leg problems, unless you count being heavy bred as one of them Thank heavens for BoSe.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

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Sorry I thought you had said you were doing a study on oral selenium. Vicki


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

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No, I am doing a study on selenium boluses but had to put it off until later. By the time the test results came in on trace minerals it was too far along in the pregnancies to play around with "Would they absorb enough in time". So it will begin after they level off in lactation. Until then I will use BoSe. 
Tam


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## Tracy in Idaho (Oct 26, 2007)

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Ha, I KNEW as soon as you put up pics, everyone would jump on the copper bandwagon......It is NOT a copper problem -- Sorry, I have to phooey that diagnosis too  ....at least not entirely (whether is might be a SYMPTOM of copper deficiency caused by feeding grain is possible I suppose?)

It is caused by feeding grain with alfalfa. Absolutely. Been there. Done it. Fixed it.

Now, like I said, perhaps something in the grain is tying up the copper? I dunno, and don't pretend to. I do know that if you don't grain them, this doesn't happen.

All the doelings that I had bend had been bolused. Every single one of them. And we supplemented them afterwards, and plenty of BoSe -- nothing else had an effect on it.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

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This is not a bent foreleg that you get from overfeeding protein and phosphorus and breeding does young, you can see Birdy's forelegs on my website and see what that bend looks like, Wyoming alfalfa grain fed kid. Considering the bend in the photo from saanendoah.com in her copper study on hundreds of goats in Tammy's area looks exactly like the bend in the does front legs in Tammy's back yard, I would be talking to Joyce.

The reason we don't see kids like this and feed grain as soon as they will eat something besides milk is because when kids are born in Texas, our alfalfa hay has been in Texas in the humidity depleting of protein for 9 months. Vicki


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## Tracy in Idaho (Oct 26, 2007)

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Oh by the way -- you don't appraise her. You tell the appraiser that in your opinion she is not in condition to appraise. Bring her out, let them see her, and most likely they will agree and code her NIC. Every appraiser I have had has been very kind in doing this.


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## Tracy in Idaho (Oct 26, 2007)

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So how do you explain it going away in my herd once I quit graining kids?

It is exactly the same sort of bending that we had. I find it hard to believe it is copper -- unless it is the grain somehow binding up their ability to absorb the copper.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

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Thanks Tracy for that info on appraisal. I will be sure to ask them not to. Tracy our hay comes from south central Idaho, you don't by chance have an idea on your protein levels in your alfalfa do you? I was going to do that but my research got put on hold.
Tam


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## Tracy in Idaho (Oct 26, 2007)

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So your hay comes from my area then.

We run fairly low on the protein levels -- 14-15%. Our hay is also low in potassium. Now, if you are buying off irrigated fields, your analysis is going to be different. You should be able to send in a hay sample, or if it is a big seller, you can get a copy of their test.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

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There is research to show that feeding soy creates an acid condition which then leaches calcium to buffer.
Soy is also known for causing mineral imbalances in and of itself. 
I would say it is not 'grain' as in real whole seeds of grasses but ration particularly soy ration as part of the issue. Soy with alfalfa maybe but not grain with alfalfa.
I know of too many people who free feed horse ration 24/7 and alfalfa trucked in from SD to think it is as simple as grain and alfalfa.

So grain- meaning real grains- is a mistaken culprit in this issue.
Ration as put together by the agri boys to push stock beyond their natural capability on crops we over grow is the issue.

If there is phytate residue in your soy products it will block copper usage- it will remain in the liver and biopsy will show good to elevated copper level when in fact there is a lack in the rest of the body. I like the copper bandwagon but you have to make sure it gets where it's going. Just because you administer it does not mean they are able to use it.


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## Tracy in Idaho (Oct 26, 2007)

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Lee, I had this happen feeding nothing but plain COB one year -- and then a dairy mix the next.

Now last year I did feed them a Ca/P balanced rice bran with no issues at all.

Oh by the way -- you can also prevent this by not breeding them to kid until they are 2 yr olds. It is the mix of alfalfa, grain, growing and pregnancy that does it.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

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ANYWAY, thank you all for your thoughts and experience. I appreciate your help. I mulled about posting this over and over, and finally decided to, despite what may come.

Thank You Tracy for not grumping at me I feel bad enough and have for a long while now).

Tam


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

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It's why you share Tammy...I would have told you that in my limited experience, I would have aborted the doe. Birdy went on to have salivary cysts that made her unshowable, but even with a milking leg it is very unlikely she would have finished with her forelegs ruined like that. She is structurally sound and doesn't have a problem even aged now with her legs but it certainly wasn't worth sacrificing her for a daughter (who is a champion herself so it paid off in the end). With so much problem in the pacific northwest and you know your bloodlines in Nubians are waiting also to kid out at 2, it may be management you simply have to follow to not have problems like this in your does. It's alot to kid out that much kid, and grow that much bone yourself to grow, it's a drain on calcium reserves, and like Lee said, high protein leaches calcium out to protect the urethra from the acidic urine...calcium that isn't absorbed because of defficencies even with alfalfa in front of them 24/7 even with lowered protein diets. It's a huge catch 22. Vicki


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

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I had discussed abortion with Dr. Bell, we both feel its too far in to abort. If she were but a couple weeks no problem. So she will go full term and I will work at getting her as straight as possible.

We are stocked on CMPK, banamine, oxytocin, lactated ringers, BoSe, A&D, and CD-T.

Yep, management has already been evaluated Vicki, not just feed management either. Lots of other areas as well, such as...showing is important but not as important as having a water line out to the barn, or even some solar water heaters for the winter. Simple things like "lets hold on to what we have for a couple of years and watch them mature". 
And breeding them when they are older, I will hopefully have one grade doeling coming in this spring from a Theoden breeding, a very wanted doeling so think pink!
Otherwise we will concentrate on getting things level.

Now I need to correct something in a prior post:
"(if anyone reads all of the breeders brochures be sure to read on Redwood Hills brochure about her feelings on feeding her kids feed!)"
Is actually from Tempo Aquila, and not that she doesn't feed feed to kids, she doesn't free choice it and doesn't advise breeding to kid before 16 months.
http://www.ruhigestelle.com/PriceTermsConditions.pdf

Tam


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## skeeter (Aug 11, 2010)

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I found out , the hard way, that you also have to balance with the minerals in your water. I took several of my goats and stayed in the treasure valley area of Idaho for a few months. Same feed, same care, everything the same except the water. After the vet bills for UC we found that the water had way too much phosphorus and we actually needed to triple the amount of alfalfa we were feeding. Luckily these were wethers and one non breeding doe. It could have been much worse.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

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:yeahthat Jill We've already been there with the water. We are on the public water system. The amounts of different minerals and chemicals that are added vary alot in just one month and it does effect our copper and selenium absorption. Magnenese (sp?), magnesium, iron, and phosphorous are constant problems either too much or not enough which are also added to the public water. And you know they don't just add alittle at a time...whew you should smell it when they add chlorine :yuck. This was addressed two years ago, when we had even more serious copper deficiencies. Not that it the water doesn't have anything to do with it. 
Tam


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## Laverne (Apr 4, 2010)

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I had a thought. Are white goats more prone to this. Tam's doe is white and the only goat in her herd showing this problem?. The Saanendoah goat picture is a white goat. Laura Acton likes to wait to breed her Saanens' later, they're white of course.


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

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I was wondering about that Laverne and white animals get more vitamin D than colored ones so do they convert more calcium than colored animals?


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## Tracy in Idaho (Oct 26, 2007)

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I don't think the color has much to do with it.....best doe I had it happen to was black 

I never saw much correlation between size, milking lines, color -- absolutely nothing to tie them in except diet --and even then, not all of them did it.


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## Laverne (Apr 4, 2010)

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To me the bones don't look curved like Rickets. It seems to be the joints that are weak and fail. Of course I've never seen one up close. Would Glucosamine and Chrondroitin help, for joint repair and strength?


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

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This is not rickets, rickets is from too much protein. Goat medicine has them bowing out. 
Tam


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## Laverne (Apr 4, 2010)

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It looks like the bones remain straight in this knock kneed condition, unlike Rickets where the bone itself bows, so was thinking just the joint cartilage is affected in your does condition. Sorry, I didn't make myself clear.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

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OH,sorry. Yes you are correct. When she lays with her legs out they are straight.
Tam


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## hsmomof4 (Oct 31, 2008)

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Actually, rickets is from not enough Vitamin D, leading to a problem with calcium absorption.


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## Tracy in Idaho (Oct 26, 2007)

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There is certainly a Ca/P problem involved, because I have fed FFs the Ca/P balanced rice bran with absolutely no issues.

Add grain instead, and presto -- this happens.


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## JamieH (Nov 29, 2010)

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I thought we are supposed to feed kids early to develop rumen. Should they only get hay?


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

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Jamie, not sure how to write this without sounding condesending, but we have this problem pretty well licked with starting the kids on grain, milk for as long as you can do it and then introducing hay/browse...I do use alfalfa hay so they can eat the tiny leaves, but I also buy a small alfalfa pellet...Nutrena out here is tiny, perfect for kids. Once about 8 months you can move to no grain and just alfalfa in some form and hay or browse and no grain if you aren't going to breed them the first year....if you are going to hold them over to kid at 2 years, graining will make for fat kids with fat in the udder and fat in the shoulders. Then as you get it done for awhile, learn other ways of doing things, sure tweak it.

If I wasn't going to grow my kids out to show/appraise or kid at their first birthday I would raise my kids out in my woods pen with chopped corn (for fat and energy) and alfalfa pellets (their protein and calcium). Vicki


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## buckrun (Mar 7, 2008)

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Lots to learn! Try to learn it for your local area from a successful long lived herd.
Several generations of good production with few health issues and you will have your answer about proper management. It is obvious that our southern routines do not work for western herds.


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## JamieH (Nov 29, 2010)

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Thanks, I'm trying to understand everything. Those pictures of those legs were like nothing I've ever seen.


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

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It's just that most never share their problems Jamie.....Tammy should be commended for sharing hers. Vicki


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

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<<Tammy should be commended for sharing hers. >>

Amen to that !


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

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Well, we needed something good up for discussion .

*And it increases awareness that too little isn't good but neither is too much. *

Tam


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

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JamieH said:


> I thought we are supposed to feed kids early to develop rumen. Should they only get hay?


I was thinking the same thing, Jamie. I was waiting for this discussion to conclude before I asked that.

Can someone write a summary of this discussion, even though it contains differing opinions? That would be most helpful for those of us who are new and maybe don't know what works for us and what doesn't yet.


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## grandmajo (May 22, 2008)

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A


Vicki McGaugh Tx Nubians said:


> It's just that most never share their problems Jamie.....Tammy should be commended for sharing hers. Vicki


Agreed! Thank you Tammy!


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

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MF-Alpines said:


> Can someone write a summary of this discussion, even though it contains differing opinions? That would be most helpful for those of us who are new and maybe don't know what works for us and what doesn't yet.





buckrun said:


> Lots to learn! Try to learn it for your local area from a successful long lived herd.
> Several generations of good production with few health issues and you will have your answer about proper management. It is obvious that our southern routines do not work for western herds.


I think Lee already did. While we could spend a fortune testing feed and the mineral content and hoping we got consistent results, and then tell new folks to do the same, it seems far easier and more cost effective to mirror a successful, healthy, local herd that shares much of the same soil, air, water, wether, etc. and growing conditions. Then, when you have that under your belt, tweak as necessary.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

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And local doesn't mean 200 miles away. There is so much of a difference between say Camille (Wheytogosaanens) and us. There is a BIG difference between here and Moscow/Pullman area just 45 minutes away. So if I am using what Camille does for management I will still have to adjust for my area. Tracy's area is more like our area but then again she is in a whole different region, the climate is much drier than here as we live in a valley with two conjoining rivers.
So new folks need to stick to the basics of a long standing herd, like minerals, hays, and feeds but be aware that even that may not work for you.

And don't be afraid to come on here because you have made mistakes. You are learning, I'll be learning every day I'm in goats.

Tam


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

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stoneyheightsfarm said:


> I think Lee already did. While we could spend a fortune testing feed and the mineral content and hoping we got consistent results, and then tell new folks to do the same, it seems far easier and more cost effective to mirror a successful, healthy, local herd that shares much of the same soil, air, water, wether, etc. and growing conditions. Then, when you have that under your belt, tweak as necessary.


You are assuming there are herds here that I would like to mimic. I haven't found one yet. Seriously.

My original request on the summary wasn't necessarily about general feed management. It was specific to Tammy's problem and the viewpoints as to what the causes could be.


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## JamieH (Nov 29, 2010)

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I agree. Thank you Tammy for sharing. It is kind of you to allow us to learn from this. I think I read through it too quickly the first time, I was really confused.


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## Anita Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

*Re: HYPERCALCEMIA-need info*

This is a really interesting thread. It does seem like the various problems and how they are managed are dependent on location...and available feeds, etc. in that location. I've only been breeding goats for 4 years now, and have pretty much had kids on full grain from the get go and never had a single problem with any type of malformed anything. This is our third (and hopefully final) farm. The girls also get as much grain as they can eat twice a day, plus alfalfa pellets and grass hay. We even feed a mixed grass with lots of fescue...never a problem with that either. Our goats normally milk 10-12 pounds a day.

I have no solutions at all, I just wanted to say "thanks" for sharing so we can all learn more. Since I've not had a problem with early graining I will continue it, but I think it's good to know what might happen, especially with the combinations of things like too much of this nutrient, too little of that, (improperly blended by the feed folks) bad water, improperly fertilized hay, early pregnancy etc. I worry about hay a lot. I worry because of the synthetic fertilizers used on it, and our great need for it in the winter, and even year round. And if the water is bad, what can you do about that?

Thanks again for sharing Tammy, and everyone. It's a learning that's for sure. I hope you get it figured out soon! I know it's got to be driving you crazy.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

*Re: HYPERCALCEMIA-need info*

"have pretty much had kids on full grain from the get go and never had a single problem with any type of malformed anything"

Me too Anita, so never say never. This is the first occurance of this ever in 5 yrs so it can happen
Tam


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## prairie nights (Jan 16, 2009)

*Re: HYPERCALCEMIA-need info*

Cindy,

I think with the northern states, you could also mimic IN or OH herds. There are some nice ones. Not that far away and pretty similar, from what I remember from living in Ft Wayne and doing a lot of travelling between Detroit/Chicago/Toledo.

Jana
www.oldpathshomestead.com


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## Laverne (Apr 4, 2010)

*Re: HYPERCALCEMIA-need info*

My hay and pellets are from north, central Oregon about 100 miles from me. It will cause severe copper deficiency. But my water is really good. So many variables.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

*Re: HYPERCALCEMIA-need info*

After Loralei kidded it did seem to correct itself for a bit. And then she went heavy into milk...requiring more grain. Not only did her front legs bend in worse but her hind hooves were starting to go. She was having difficulty enduring standing just for feed. I tried cutting back on milking her but that only made her hurt more and did not slow down at all. She was gave us 7# of milk as a FF yesterday morning.

Our beautiful goat angel was let to slumber over the Rainbow Bridge yesterday . She is no longer in pain and no longer has to be so enduring for the humans she so loved. We will definately miss you angel goat, your sweetness has touched our hearts. Thank you so much for your daughter, so we can raise her with the love you got and more caution. We will love you forever Loralei!
Tam


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## Lynn_Theesfeld (Feb 21, 2010)

So Sorry for the loss of your beautiful girl, but I do believe you did the right thing 
Hugs Girlie!!!

Lynn


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## Laverne (Apr 4, 2010)

I'm sorry you had to make that decision but it was a loving decision.


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## MF-Alpines (Mar 29, 2010)

So sorry, Tammy.


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## sarafina (Dec 26, 2009)

So sorry for the loss of your doe. I am glad you got a doeling out of her to remember her by.


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## lorit (May 10, 2010)

So sad - hope the little one brings new joy.


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## sarafina (Dec 26, 2009)

Are you planning on doing any testing on her liver?


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## cmeyer1 (Apr 21, 2010)

I just wanted to express my sympathy at your plight. So sorry about your loss.


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## Caprine Beings (Sep 19, 2008)

No Sarafina, Loralei was a 1 yr old, not enough age to significantly tell mineral amount. I know what did this and have learned. I hope my mistake will help others, much like Tracy tried hard for me not to this. If your breeder says "I don't feed them grain or by-products until they kid." ASK MORE QUESTIONS. And learn your lines, as Artemis will not get bred until next fall, so she can grow first, and then have babies.
Tam


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## Fiberaddict (Jun 4, 2009)

So sorry about your loss!


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## Candy (Jun 4, 2009)

I am sorry about your loss as well. I am also glad you posted this and other replied. It has been very interesting to me and sure making me think....


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## KJFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

I'm sorry for your loss, Tammy. This has been very valuable information that you have shared.


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