# Starter culture vs. DS culture.. I think?



## Klawbag (Feb 23, 2010)

I apologize if this has already been explained, I can't find an answer...

I called New England Cheese today and they're closed today only, of course, but that's my luck.

I'm looking to place an order with them for some cultures. 
What I want to know is whether I can use the packets of culture to start a motherculture, instead of buying the culture starter of what appears to be the same exact culture, the only difference being 1 packet vs. 5 packets. I don't know if there's a difference in packet size.

My reasoning behind this is I can get 5 packets of meso, use one for a motherculture in a quart jar and use up the rest today for my cheeses as the milk has overrun my fridge! By the time I need more, the motherculture will be ready. I would like to do the same with my thermo cultures, get the 5 pack and start a mother with one pack. I spent so much time figuring out what I need, but I'm still pretty confused with all the variety. I have cheese books that say you need a meso and a thermo and rennet. "Momma" didn't tell me there's 8 types of each!

Can this be done successfully or is there REALLY a reason the 1 pack "starter" and the 5 pack are priced the same?

PS. This will be my first order (no, I've never paid anyone for bacteria lol) SO I really want to make sure I do it right and get some mothercultures going for the future.

Thanks for suggestions, because I need all I can get. The only cheese I ever made was when the cream curdled in my coffee cup :really


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## linuxboy (Oct 26, 2009)

Not sure how to answer this accurately without being too confusing. But, in short:

Yes, you can inoculate milk with any freeze dried starter culture to make a mother culture. Boil the milk first, then cool down to target temp. You can also make a mesophilic culture by leaving raw milk out to clabber. It has naturally occurring bacteria.

The ability to make a consistent cheese, however, using that culture is not a sure thing. Additionally if you use a multiple-strain starter culture, the exact ratio of the strains will change with time, which leads to the production of a different tasting cheese.

The variety is because commercially, companies who make culture have collected the best kinds from all over the world and sell them. Each culture has its unique attributes. Not all mesophilic lactic bacteria are the same. Some produce Co2 and a buttery flavor, for example.

Not sure which products you're looking at for 1 pack vs 5 pack. Is it the regular meso culture? She's charging the same price because she can. The 1 pack is just repackaged. the 5 pack has 5x more culture in terms of the colony forming units (number of bacteria in the powder).


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## Klawbag (Feb 23, 2010)

The meso cultures are both the same cultures in the 1 pack and 5 pack. The 5 pack is listed as a direct set, that seems to be the only difference between the two and it's not reflected in the "ingredients". It's a two strain meso culture.


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## linuxboy (Oct 26, 2009)

Oh, one is likely made by Abiasa, then, and the other by Danisco or CHR Hansen. But they taste about the same to me. Both are reculturable even though technically, everyone (well at least Glengarry and New England) only lists the Abiasa as a mother starter and not the Danisco.

If they are the same price, get the one with more culture. Rule of thumb for high levels of cheese precision is you can reculture mixed strain cultures at least once for every product out there, and some products are specifically made for using as mother cultures (multi-generation), so they may have specific advantages, such as higher ability to withstand more acid and survive in the fridge for longer. 

You could try using these as a known starter and then clabbering and make a complex clabber mother starter to reuse.


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## mulish (Apr 26, 2009)

"You could try using these as a known starter and then clabbering and make a complex clabber mother starter to reuse."

pav, will you explain this last suggestion in a "how to" way?

thanks!


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## linuxboy (Oct 26, 2009)

What I meant was that it usually takes about three weeks, or 15-20 generations for a clabber to be stable, like a sourdough starter. If you used a known starter, it comes "stable". Meaning you can culture the dry starter and keep reculturing it, and your cheeses should turn out about the same. If you used only clabber, it will change from the first one to the 15th one as the bacteria adapt to living a cycle where you make the clabber and save some for the next batch in the fridge. 

If you used a hybrid approach, where first you made a mother culture with the dry starter, and then added some raw milk to it, to introduce other bacteria, it should cut off about a week or two from the adaptation cycle. So you'd get a custom culture unique to your environment, but because you already had other bacteria in there, the overall bacterial colonies would reach what I call an uneasy truce faster. It's an uneasy truce because the many varieties of bacteria in raw milk are all trying to outcompete with each other for food, but if you keep our process the same in terms of temps, they'll maintain colony sizes that are proportional to each other, in a similar proportion to your original starter.

The challenge with starters at home is contamination and consistency. If you did this hybrid method, it puts the odds more in your favor. So you get the best of both worlds, commercial culture adapted to cheesemaking, and multi-strain raw milk clabber culture adapted to your environment.


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