# How often to worm



## supermom (Feb 24, 2009)

I was told to worm once and then again in 10 days. My friend (not on this list) was told to worm hers once every 3 months or so. She is wondering if the goat has been on a wormer regularly, do you not need to worm twice in a row? Is that worming again in 10 days only for someone who has not wormed in awhile?

Also, at what age do I worm my kids? Can the regular drugs be used on kids or do you have to use a particular wormer on kids (Sondra had said to use Valbazen, but is that the only one?). Do I worm the kids twice in a row, too? 

I'm almost done with my worming questions. Thanks for your patience with me ;o).
Monica


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2009)

Keep in mind, that these kid weights are referring to standard size goats.

Whim

Excerpts from "Management from Birth till Kidding". (WORMING)

Read Entire Article at

http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,2077.0.html

"""Day 20 (20 days old) Worm with Valbazen 1cc per 10lbs (this is for tapes) Important note is that my
babies are not in pens frequented by adults; so adult worms aren't a worry for me until my kids are older. If your babies are in with adults than you will have to worm them with your adult wormer, here Cydectin. Worming kids every 3 weeks until weaned and well grown is the best prevention, along with cocci, giving you healthy, robust kids that can be bred their first year. Do not wait for symptoms of cocci or worms and then use treatment, think prevention always."""

"""At 45 days old (6 weeks) give round 2 of Corid for 5 more days; Give their CD&T injection. Worm.
At 67 Days (9 weeks) Give CD&T injection. Switch wormer to Cydectin.
At 12 weeks decide if you are ready to wean them. They should be eating 1 lb of grain. Kids should be gaining roughly 10 lbs a month so by breeding age they will be 80-90 lbs. Worm with Cydectin. """

"""Breeding Time
For arguments sake lets say your doeling was born in March and is now 90+ pounds and you want to breed her in October, to have kids in March.
In September ....... Worm with Cydectin 1cc per 22 lbs."""

"""First 50 days of being bred don't DO ANYTHING to them NO Stress or 
Changes. Implantation of the eggs into the uterus can be up to 14 days. Worming with anything, antibiotics, feed through products, can cause a doe to slip the egg and not implant it. Using wormers if you must for the health of the doe, pick one without a flukecide in it. Do not use Valbazen or Ivermectin Plus that contain products to kill liver flukes.
At 100 days bred use Ivermectin Plus 1 cc per 30 lbs orally (this is for liver Flukes, lungworm, 4th stage HC.) """

""Day of Kidding

Worm the does with cydectin 1cc per 22lbs.

10 days after kidding use Valbazen 1cc per 10 lbs. This is the only time I tape worm my adult does, milk withdrawal is 3 milkings, 36 hours. Tapes are of no consequence to the adult goat and being the only worm owners can see with the naked eye, they are the most problem for owners. I do this one worming since this time also coincides with appraisal and showing and having a lot of new folks at the farm for sales of kids, milkers and milk&#8230;so wouldn't want any tapes in the poop!""""
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## supermom (Feb 24, 2009)

Thank you, but this article does not mention worming and then repeating 10 days later. I have heard to do that so often. And as I said, my friend does not do that and is wondering if she is doing it the wrong way. Will we be okay doing as the article says....and only worming once?


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## homeacremom (Nov 6, 2007)

The 3x 10 days apart are geared toward parasite lifecycles so that you can get a complete (or near complete) evacuation. Or as in that article, two different dewormers that cover a broader spectrum of parasites. Get it done right, with the correct dewormer, and you won't need to deworm every month or 3 months as most will tell you. I still use one time dosing for some things like the kidding cydectin, but that is a management tool, not for a problem. If a problem shows up on fecal then do a 2-3x 10 day cycle to get back on track.


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## Sondra (Oct 25, 2007)

Monica I told you to worm with cydectin or quest now and again in 10 days with valbazen because you have a adult goat with white eye lids which said goat was on herbal wormers prior If you copper bolus in our area and get the worms that your goat has now then you only need to do fecals and worm when needed except for pre breeding /100 days pre kidding and day of freshening. Your talking abt a just fresh goat here. I also told you quest because of cost and also valbazen because of cost Now for me personally I use Ivormec plus and cydectin on adults and valbazen on kids. 
If you just auto worm every 3 mo and don't know what your dealing with then you end up overusing the wormers to where they will no longer work. Some folks even worm every month so you are going to get a jillion ideas You need to do fecals and KNOW that your wormers are working. Having a goat with already a diminished immune system (white lids) means that she is probably anemic and it is going to take a while before you see improvement but know that you have gotten the worms is the biggest step in this. Believe me if I could use herbal wormers in this area I would.


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## supermom (Feb 24, 2009)

My friend was willing to share her Cydectin bottle with me, so I have already administered it. The proof is on the mouth of my once white goat. We both fell completely down when she backed up on me and she is now purple ). I did redo her.

Thanks Sondra,
Monica


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

It's really hard Monica to be new. Who do you listen to? The acid test for me in listening to others about my goats, is do I know them? Do I admire their goats? Are their goals with goats similar to mine, and biggy sometimes is can I afford it.

Worming monthly, is not only going to cost a fortune in the end, it is also going to give you a wormer chemical that you will be resistant to and can no longer use. It is why Ivermectin products work soo poorly in Texas. Overuse, overdosing and not giving orally.

Worm, then let the doe build herself back up from anemia with good food and time. Don't even think about breeding until you have this under control.

Out here the only secret bullet with worms is to copper bolus, the rest is learning how to fecal, then you don't have to listen to any of us or your friend, you will know what worms you have and what does and doesn't work. Vicki


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## supermom (Feb 24, 2009)

But Vickie, the thing that is getting me is I am fecaling. No eggs showing up. I even had the vet check 4 of them. One of the does we fecaled 3 days in a row (vet checked 2 of them). No eggs at all. She is the one with the almost white eye membranes. I'm willing to do whatever. I am not convinced she has worms, but I decided to do this just to be sure we aren't missing something. You are saying I need to get this under control. My goats look wonderful and have always been very healthy. I really don't think they are loaded with worms or they would be looking icky, wouldn't they? I'm not sure I need to get things under control, but I am wanting to do preventative and certainly if I am missing something.....then yes, I would want to get it under control. 

Thanks for your patience with me! I do want to learn from you guys. I'm just getting mixed messages from you, the vet, and the fecals. My vet has told me to be thankful we don't have parasites, and she has seen the fecals and the goats.

Monica


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## cariboujaguar (Feb 9, 2009)

It's really up to you who you listen to... I am going by facts, I like to follow advice here that has proof and science behind it. I learned all my initial 'facts' from a very sadly misinformed chat group and lost many goats to it, I also have horrible ignorant vets who I lost many goats becuse of... *sigh* so far the advice here is all that is panning out, and no dead goats... so I stick with what Vicki says, JMHO


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## stoneyheightsfarm (Jan 19, 2008)

Sometimes, you can have a high parasite load and not see a thing on the fecals. If there are cocci and worms thriving in there and making your goats anemic, but the conditions are not just right for laying eggs, you won't see anything on the fecals. So, I'd keep this in the back of your head and watch her poop. If you see changes--color, consistancy, etc. (and I'm talking slight) you might want to check it and see if you can find anything. 

In the mean time, what else could be making her anemic? White eye membranes have to mean something.


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2009)

OK...so I think I see one of the problems that you're running into. "Mixed messages" is something that you're gonna run into from one person to the next, especially in goating. You must, and we should approach every part of our management from a basics standpoint, and then tweak it to fit our own situation. 
I have 4 close family members who are into dairy goating, and one has been since 1960's. We all live within this same general area here. I can almost guarantee ya if you ask us all the exact same question, you will get a little bit different answer from each one. With that said, we all 4 approach the situation from a do the basics standpoint, and then make adjustments that works best for our own herds. It's really not a mixed message, it's just a message that works best for each of us in our own situations.

In your question, the base line to start with.....is you have goats, you live in an area where parasites are known to be, and you have wormers on the market that can help you control the problem. Now, I know you are looking for a more cut and dried solution to you situation there.....it just don't exist. And, you've posed your situation to a forum that is world wide now, so sure, you're gonna get hundreds of different approaches. People generally post what works best for them at their own place.......and then sometimes people just post. That's the very reason I told you to find an established herd that is in your area, and if that herd is having success, then try to learn from them until you can establish your own personal management on your own property. 

There's an old saying "there's more than one way to skin a cat"....and it's so true. We try to end up getting the same results in regards to parasite control, but many of have learned that we often have to get there by doings things a little bit different in order to meet our herds, and individual goats needs. 

So, don't get caught up in this mixed messages thingy, or you will miss seeing the big picture.......and it is that you will need to use something that works to control parasites in your goats. Why....because they're gonna get them.

Whim


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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

The problem here is that you only see eggs on fecal, not the blood sucking adult worms. So a clean fecal with anemia...your doe is bleeding internally, your doe has cocci (which always sheds occyts) and you would have seen it on fecal or your goat has adult blood sucking worms. A clean fecal, sorry but I just have to say that I so rarely see them, that I would sort of worry about my technique, that I picked up old poop, that it was not 21 days since the last worming, or it's winter. I always see some eggs in every fecal, not enough to worm most of the time, and why I use a chambered slide for fecal egg counts.

I can only share with you what I know, what is relavant at my farm.

With the information from Sondra that you have been using herbal wormers, it pretty much sums up for me the problem. After killing the adult worms you will have a clean fecal, but it will take months for her to build her blood back to a non anemic state. With any stress at all, and bug or bacteria she would have faught off in her healthy state, stress of our summers coming, you won't have a perfectly fine (albeit anemic) goat.

Alot of what we know does fly in the face of the written word your vet was taught. Vicki


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## supermom (Feb 24, 2009)

I did fecals and to confirm it....the vet did, too. I normally catch the poop coming out before it hits the ground. I can't believe I almost want to see an egg since you are saying that is normal! Anyway, we will keep watching closely and I did Cyectin today just to be sure. Thanks for sharing what you know and do.

Is it possible a vitamin or mineral deficiency could cause anemia?

Monica


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## favablue (Apr 11, 2009)




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## NubianSoaps.com (Oct 26, 2007)

Favablue what wormer are you using that has goat dosages on them?

Using herbal wormers have you ever fecaled to see if they are working? Even Texas A&M could not get herbal wormers to work.

Vicki


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## tmfinley (Feb 21, 2008)

Supermom, remember what Vicki said - you can still have blood sucking worms that just aren't laying eggs. 

Tiffany


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